Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Losing Our Virginity - feat. Our Wives | Ear Biscuits Ep.304

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

The Mythical wives join the podcast for the first time ever! Listen to R&L, Jessie, and Christy discuss the first time they all lost their virginities on their respective wedding nights, the key to maintaining a vibrant sexual relationship all these years of marriage, and more on this Sextember episode of Ear Biscuits! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Make your nights unforgettable with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it. Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event, skip to the good bit using the card member entrance.

Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamx. Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong friends talk about life for a long time. I'm Link. And I'm Rhett.

This week at the round table of dim lighting, we are entering into the home stretch of sex timber. This is part four. You caught us in the middle of sex. Kind of sex timber. You're walking in on a month long of sex. Hopefully you've been here the whole time we've been talking about sex.

Yeah, if you haven't, go back and start at the beginning. You could listen to this on its own, but really, you need to go back to part one. This is part four. What we thought, we thought it was gonna be part three, but part two just got so big and long that it turned, I'm sorry, I just can't. Don't try so hard.

I'm not trying. You're trying too hard. I'm not trying, it just keeps happening. You're trying too hard. I'm not trying at all, I'm not planning any of this, it just comes out. You're kind of forcing it. This is a very special episode because we are actually going to,

at some point, if we can figure out the technical side of things, we're having a little issue with that, but I think we will have Jesse and Christy join us via satellite. It's what it seems like. Wanna get their perspective. Probably just a call. Cause we're talking about the,

well, we're gonna talk about the first time that I had sex, first time you had sex, which is also the first time that our wives had sex. Yeah. And I, you know, I'll just go ahead and give the disclaimer, shorter version of our normal disclaimer. Hey, we're just, we're talking about our experiences.

They're actually very narrow experiences in the realm of people's sexual development. And so we just wanna acknowledge that once again, we're two straight white cis dudes who've been married once and had sex only within the context of that marriage. We are speaking from that perspective and we're not representing anybody else's perspective, but we absolutely acknowledge

that there are so many different experiences that listeners are bringing to this thing. And especially when it comes to the topic of coming out of purity culture and assessing the impact that that had on us is not a blanket statement about the impact it had on anybody else. But we are expanding that perspective a little bit today

by having our wives be a part of the conversation. But yeah, so we'll talk about that first time and then we're gonna get into some different questions with our wives, everything from what was it like for them to be, you know, finally be able to be sexually active in the context of kind of coming up through this purity culture. We're gonna talk a little bit about parenting

as our views have changed over time. Gonna talk about what, if we can get to it, we'll talk about, you know, how do you maintain a sexual relationship, a vibrant sexual relationship after 22 decades of being married. 22 decades? 22 decades of 20 years of being married to the same person. So. 200 years.

We'll get into all that. Is that what it feels like to you? Because it's as fresh as a newborn baby to me. Why are you trying to speak for me, man? I'm just joking. You just wait. I'm just joking, man. But yeah, but let's, so before we bring the ladies in,

we are going to talk about our, like what our perspective on it was for each of us that one night at the, where was I? Did we stay at the same hotel? Like a year apart? You got married a year before me, but it was that hotel next to the airport. No, I didn't.

I don't think it's romantic to hear planes flying over. I stayed at like a residence inn. No, mine was the really nice hotel. I mean, when I say near the airport, I just mean it's on that side of town, but it was like, I think I stayed there because you were like, oh, the place that you should stay before you travel to Mexico on your honeymoon is,

because you went to Jamaica, I went to Mexico, is this, what is it? It's called- I thought it was called a residence inn. Maybe it is. I made residence there just for one night. I mean, since I went first, maybe I should go first. Sure, let's hear it.

So yeah, I managed to stay a virgin until my wedding night. As I chronicled last week, we, you know, once Christy and I got engaged, we started making out, we started, we then began a physical relationship and it was kind of like that aspect of our relationship caught up with all the other aspects of our relationship that had been developing at more of what some people might consider more of a normal pace.

But we had really cordoned off this area in the name of purity and in service to God and not making past mistakes that I had made to just to wait because we were in true love and you know what true love does? It waits. But it was an issue of integrity. And I think that's something that we will go back to

and maybe all of you guys can speak to as well. That like, I'm proud of the fact that we waited until we were married to have sex because those were our convictions at the time. And we followed through with that, but it was very, very difficult. And there was a lot of buildup. So just as much as,

and Christy and her family was planning the wedding and like all the details of that. I was along for the ride when it came to that. And I was like, yesing and yes- the details of that. I was along for the ride when it came to that and I was like yesing and yes-anding all of that. But I was thinking, the reaction is really in the wedding night, not the wedding day. You know what I'm saying?

It's like, that's what I'm really looking forward to. And is it so built up that it's gonna go sideways? Well. You know, I have a way of having these expectations. There's nothing wrong if it goes sideways. That doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with you. There's, all penises are normal penises. Some go up, some go down, some go left, some go right.

And I would say what mine does, but I don't want to then seem like I'm being defensive if it's- Well, apparently it goes sideways. It doesn't matter, so I'm not gonna talk about it. Well, let me get in there. Well, let me just- Insert, insert.

Let me insert myself into this conversation because I'll give my perspective of where I was at in terms of the same thing. Okay, yeah. Which is yes and, just like you were. I wasn't even yes and-ing any of the wedding stuff. I was just, I was like, carte blanche. You make all the decisions that you want.

I don't, this is not my thing. I mean, I'm gonna be there and anything you want me to do, anything you need me to do, I will do, but I'm not gonna come in and have an opinion about colors of things and- The only initiative you took was shaving, buzzing your hair. Yeah, for some reason.

A few nights before. But not my nether regions. I didn't trim that up. I didn't even think about that. Oh, I did. Because I had a friend who was in the Navy. They don't have to shave their pubes in the Navy. He learned a lot in the Navy.

It's called a crew cut, man. They all have to get it. No, they don't have to shave their pubes. No, but he said, you should really trim everything up down there because, I mean, he said in his words, it's like, you look down and everything's more impressive. It's not shadowed by anything. Some people might need that.

But. So yeah, I recall being, I know that I learned that information before I got married. So I think I put it into practice because it stuck with me all these years. I knew that Jessie had that information before I got married, so I think I put it into practice because it stuck with me all these years. I knew that Jessie had never seen a penis. I mean, so she was gonna be, all she had to compare it to was mine.

She had never dug up any porn in the forest? She had never seen penis in sexual context. She had never worked at the garage sorting baseball cards? I think she'll talk about that a little bit later, but. Wow, yeah. But that was, that's the only thing that I, first of all, it was kind of the only thing

I was thinking about for most of my life up until that point. And so it was definitely- We understand that now, yes. As that year turned into that month, turned into that week, turned into that day, I was just like, the whole day, the whole wedding day, I was like, I'm gonna get to have sex at the end of this day. I'm gonna get to have sex at the end of this day. It felt surreal.

I have to meet all these freaking people. To think about it so much. I have to talk to all these people and smile at them. Yeah, I mean, to have this- I'm gonna get to have sex though. To have this wedding, and the wedding was a big deal. There were hundreds and hundreds of people at my wedding. It was a huge endeavor.

And I felt like the night before I just fell ill, just I think was anxiety. Cause I just wanted, I just felt everyone else's expectations. So I was very anxious about the wedding. And then my mind kept going to, and then there's tonight. There's tonight. I'm so excited, but now I'm also nervous

and really keyed up. And it's not that Christy and I hadn't talked about it. And we had been given books and the books got more specific as the time got closer. And especially for Christy, she remembers this, that there were a couple of women who she respected in a spiritual sense, like they were involved in their churches

and they had a practice of giving certain books to true love wait ladies who were about to get married. There was one book called Intended for Pleasure, which I think had a spiritual context, but it was helpful and encouraging. And it was also like filling in all the things you might've thought you knew, but you didn't know and how things were gonna work and how to ease into it.

I remember Christy and I, we were talking about, I guess there's a little bit of a pun intended, but talking about like not putting too much pressure on ourselves, but in also trying to foster communication all along the way and just easing into it, like figuratively and I guess literally as well. I mean, that was something that was kind of a concern. It was like, is this gonna hurt?

I mean, we had these conversations because- Probably not for you. Because somebody, she was told that it may be the case. For your first time, it might hurt. She'll talk more about that. But I just remember, we were having these speculative conversations about this thing that was so built up in our minds.

But we did have this runway of a physical relationship and so it wasn't like entirely flipping a switch. Another thing that I'll wait for us to talk more about with Christy and Jesse. But we were in Kinston for the wedding. We drove the hour and a half after the wedding reception back to Raleigh so we could be close to the airport. So like you said, the next day we could get on the plane

and we could go to Jamaica, man, mon. So we're going to Jamaica. So I didn't wanna like stay at her parents' house that night. God forbid, this is the night. And I was concerned about how well rested we were gonna be. It turns out you get a second wind whenever you're ready to have sex for the first time.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was like, we took our time. We each had things that we had decided we were gonna wear. We made a decision to not be in a hurry and to enjoy each other. It was, I don't recall it being really awkward. Again, because we had been physical in our engagement and it had really started ramping up,

like the intensity of desire. So, I mean, I think we were a little bit nervous. I think she was more nervous than I was, but we just took it slow and then it was successful. But- The eagle landed. And I remember as the eagle's landing. Oh gosh.

I just remember the predominant thought in my mind, as the eagle was landing. Well, what does the eagle landing mean? It's actually happening. We're actually doing the old in and out. Okay. We're having sex. Okay, thank you for clarifying. We're having intercourse.

Okay, good, understood. Okay, do you understand? So the eagle is really landing. Landing, but it hasn't landed completely. Right. As it's actually happening, understood. Okay, do you understand? So the eagle is really landing. Landing, but it hasn't landed completely. As it's actually happening, it's like, wow, this is happening. And then the thought that I had was, this is free!

This is free! I don't have to pay for this. As opposed to all the prostitutes you had been with? I don't have to pay for this. As opposed to all the prostitutes you have been with? I don't understand. I think I was such a frugal individual who was so concerned about expenses and budgeting. You're such a weird man. That whenever I was like,

how can something that is so amazing, it felt so amazing and right. You weren't saying, I am free. Like I thought you were talking about like, I am free. Like I feel so free. No, this, I am not paying for this. This is the best thing I've ever experienced. That's a man on a budget right there.

And you know what? It doesn't cost a dime. Yeah, that's true. That is wonderful. The most wonderful thing I've ever experienced, I'm currently experiencing right now, and it didn't cost anything. Interesting. Now, you might say-

You didn't say it, did you? I don't think I said it out loud. I might've said, free! But I was just like, I was just like going, yee! You were making that, God bless your wife. The central dolphin sounds. No, I wasn't making any of those noises. But yeah, I remember that being my first reaction

and I don't, I can't recall if there was more than one session in the first night, but once we got to Jamaica, then it was like, I definitely remember there being saddle soreness. At no cost. It was like, we gotta slow our roll a little bit because this is, we're experiencing some soreness. You turned the faucet on.

Much more her than me. The sink wasn't quite ready. She was experiencing some soreness. Okay, so for you it was free and that was, and it sounds like you had a great time. It was the contrast between it being the best thing ever and you typically, for an experience that amazing and all encompassing, mind, body and soul,

what I call the mon, be engaged. You typically have to save up for something like that. And one could argue that I did put it on layaway. You've been saying, there's a couple ways to take that. Okay, so similar experience. I guess you didn't think that. I definitely was not thinking that it was free.

But similar experience in that Jessie and I were always, even before we got married, a very communicative couple that communicated a lot of things to each other. So we were very comfortable with one another. And so again, there wasn't an awkwardness in terms of like, oh, you're gonna see me, you're gonna finally see me naked. No awkwardness from or to either of the people in the situation.

That can be, there can be, especially in evangelicalism, but just in general in our culture, there can be some like shame around your body and that kind of thing. That wasn't a concern. That wasn't something that we had to deal with. And we had read the same books and we had been to the same talks

and we had had certain like spiritual mentors like kind of sit down and talk to us. So I knew that my disposition was going to want to move very quickly, more quickly than she wanted to. And so I'm going into it with like, I'm gonna take it super slow. Come to find out that I actually did not go that slow, but in my mind, compared to what I wanted to do,

it felt like an eternity, right? From her perspective, I think she'll share, it didn't feel the same way. Okay. I was absolutely, as I have made clear previously on this podcast, obsessed with what I'll now call the vulva. And so I knew that more than just engaging in intercourse,

I wanted to engage in, I'll use the technical term, cunnilingus. You will giggle. You will giggle the whole time. I mean, it's a funny word. It is, it's a good word. I don't even know if I can say it. And so. Cunnilingus.

So I was. It doesn't sound like a technical word. It sounds like an urban dictionary term because it's like, it's got, cunny is part of it. Well, I think funnilingus would be an urban dictionary. That's when you can't stop laughing when you're doing it. Oh man. Which that doesn't happen to me. That's cool though.

So I knew that that was going to be one of the key steps in the process because I mean, honestly, to this day, it still kind of remains my favorite thing on the sexual menu, okay? I'm just gonna be honest with you. And so I knew that I wanted that to happen, but we had discussed that that was going to happen. So not that she would have been like, oh, that's weird.

Why are you gonna do that? But it's the kind of thing you kind of want somebody to know that that's about to happen, right? And actually we discussed it beforehand and I mean, there was enough apprehension in like, how is this gonna go? And let's figure out how we wanna step through this process and pace ourselves.

If we had done so much planning and pacing, especially me and our dating relationship, that this was just, this was nothing new in conversations for us, that we decided to err on the side of, you know what? Let's wait on oral sex until we get to Jamaica. Let's not put so much, let's not. The Caribbean, let's leave that for the Caribbean.

Let's not put like do the whole kit and caboodle in one night. So we decided to stretch it out, but know that like that was something that we were gonna definitely get into very soon, but not the first night. So that was our decision. To me there was a strategy.

And we were on the same page. There was a strategy to it. In my mind, it was like, okay, well, I know that there's a lot of concern about the woman being ready for penetration. Yeah. And so I can get the thing that I've been waiting for my entire life and also accomplish the thing

that these people are telling me is really important because I didn't know anything about, I looked at a lot of women's bodies, but I did not know anything actually about a woman's body and sexual anatomy. The books that we read did tell you how to know when a woman is ready and not to, so not to get ahead of yourself or get ahead of her,

that there's certain signs of when she's also ready, so that it's not traumatic or more painful than it needs to be or painful at all. And I will say again, we're speaking from what happened to us and like Link said at the top, like things turned out the way they turned out for us because of where we were at and what we believed at a certain particular time.

Like going back and saying like, what if you could go back, would you do things differently? It's like, well, that question doesn't even make sense because if I go back as my current self, I'm gonna make different decisions. But in the place that I was and the perspective that I had, I also agree that waiting until that night, because we were both on the same page,

it's what we both wanted, and it was the consistency with our convictions, and we were communicating the whole time, it made that first night a very, a beautiful thing, right? It made it a beautiful thing for me. I'm not saying that was because we waited, it was beautiful, but it was a beautiful thing, and we had waited.

So- And you didn't pay for it. It was free. Yeah. Didn't think about it. It was free. Yeah. Didn't think about it at the time. But I think, and we'll get the wives perspective on this. You know, I moved to the next step in the process. And of course we were using condoms at the time.

They were, I think both of us, because we were in that place where we thought that birth control might cause an unintentional abortion or something. It's like we were in so deep at the time, guys. So they weren't even on birth control. So we were just using condoms. And so that was an interesting, I was like,

I've never even put one on. Do you know what I'm saying? I think maybe I put one on in practice like the week before is like, I wanna make sure I can like get this thing on. Oh, one time when I think I was 17, I went to the T-Mart in Anger and they had one of those machines in the bathroom that sold condoms and other sex toys

for like four quarters will give you a condom. Yeah. And so I bought one there and put it on just to see. Just to try it out. I was curious. So that's one thing that I did before you. I wore a condom before you. You went and bought a condom just for the hell of it.

Yeah, I just wanted to see what that was like. But I was like, maybe this will help with cleanup. Well, not to dwell on it too much because we've got other things to talk about. And then I left the bathroom and got some fried chicken. But I will- No, I took it home. But I will say- I think. That it was beautiful.

It was incredible from my perspective. We'll get Jesse's perspective in a moment. And then when we went to Mexico that week, something very interesting happened, which we can unpack a little bit, but I ended up having what I will refer to as performance issues. We had a lot of sex, multiple times a day,

but there were a couple of times where I was just like, I don't know really what's going on here. There's this combination of finally getting the thing that you've built up in your entire life, and it was incredible and it was beautiful, but there's so many things attached to it. So many things in my brain from the shame that I had attached to it,

from the porn that I had watched. We may answer a question about that, about porn and what our current view is on porn in the last episode. But I think there was just this sense of like being completely overwhelmed with all these things that were happening that I think there was just this sense of like being completely overwhelmed with all these things that were happening that I think translated into, oh, I am, here we are in the middle of doing this

and I'm losing my erection, right? Which that can be scary. Yeah, well. And then create a vicious cycle. And the interesting thing was, is that, you know, here 20 years later as a man in his mid forties, this is not an issue at all. So it was not a physical thing.

It was a psychological thing. Sure, just goes to show you how much the mental component is at play in sex play. And I think that there was an element of, because that was happening and me not understanding what was happening, Jessie definitely not understanding what was happening, that we can get her perspective on that

in terms of did that make her feel rejected? Like how was she processing that? Now I wanna be clear that it wasn't a persistent problem, not because I'm ashamed of it, just to be clear. And it was something that kind of moved through relatively quickly, but it was kind of isolated mostly to that week and then that first year of marriage, and then slowly kind of just went away.

And I think it just had to do with the fact that this thing that I had crystallized in my mind as a certain thing then was happening on a regular basis. And then I started realizing, oh, this isn't, this is everything that I thought it would be in terms of the physicality, but there's this other component to making love

that is almost a service in a sense, right? There's a service aspect to caring about the other person that can sometimes make sex seem like, oh man, I just kind of want to just have sex. I don't really want to make love right now. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I think that that dynamic is something

that I did not anticipate being a sticking point in our marriage. Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers. Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, so we've got our wives here with us. Hello, ladies. Christy and Jesse, thank you for doing this.

How do you feel about doing this, Christy? I have diarrhea. Okay, all right, well. That's not what we're talking about today. Hey, you know, if you want it, this is a confessional podcast, so that's a great start. Does that mean- And that's really sexy, I gotta say that.

How is that related? I mean, I think Jessie does too, right, Jessie? I woke up with diarrhea as well this morning. Oh my gosh. So you guys are- There's some nerves. You guys are feeling it, feeling it, feeling the nerves from talking about this stuff. Well, I mean, you're totally easing us in

to coming on the podcast, right? Like the first time we come on the podcast, all we have to do is talk about our sex lives. Yeah, no big deal. This is easy, no biggie. We wanted to rip the bandaid off. Well, and here's my thing. I'm one of the most private people ever.

And somehow y'all have talked me into coming on this podcast to talk about my most intimate relationship with the internet. And I don't know how I feel about it. How did that- Other than diarrhea. But I mean, how did that happen? Because you did decide, I'm not coercing you to do this.

Because if anybody's going to talk about having sex with you, it has to be me. Bingo. Wow. Jessie, what about you? How did you get comfortable enough to say yes to doing this? I mean, the same. yes to doing this? I mean, the same. It feels, you know, there's definitely been talk about Christy and I on the podcast, and we've often talked about how we do have our own story, you know, not just with deconstruction, but with so many of these things.

not just with deconstruction, but with so many of these things. And it's been a conversation for a long time about when we would be ready to come on, if we wanted to come on, what we wanted to share. But I think knowing that y'all were going to be talking about sex, it feels like we can't, in some ways, not share, not that we were coerced. You have our full consent to be here. But yeah, you guys are, I'm not gonna do Rhett's song. I'm not as brave or talented as Rhett is.

It's horrible anyway. I haven't done it in sex the first time. But you know, Christy and I are both the only people that you guys have individually had sex with. And we are. I'm glad you said individually. Thank you. Thank you. We are also, you know, I'm excited to get to share

some of the woman's perspective. That's something that is, you know, is missing just because of the nature of what your podcast is. Well, that's, I mean, that's exactly why we wanted you to be a part of it. Again, it wasn't necessarily well thought out because we told you a little bit, you know, not completely last minute,

but after we had made the decision to do sex timber, we were like, ah, we're talking all about our sex lives and our sex lives as they exist now and have for quite some time. We kind of put you- Only exists with you. Yeah, we put you between a rock and a hard place, which might be a euphemism for our honeymoon night. Yeah, yeah. So let for our honeymoon night. Yeah.

So let's get into that. Yeah. Because thanks for being willing to do this. And I know that it makes such an impact in people's lives to hear, again, de-stigmatizing these type of conversations and it not just being our perspectives, but yours as well means a lot to us.

And we just, so we just shared what our sort of perspective on finally getting to have sex was like, as you can imagine what we shared, you were there. But we'd like to hear from y'all, like growing up and kind of being raised in purity culture, being such a part of it, you know, we were all about to go on staff at Crusade, like we were in it, right?

And then to, and all of us having waited until that first night, like what was it like to finally be able to break, whatever, have sex essentially. And Christy, why don't you take this one first? Oh, thank you. Yeah. What do you remember about that night or the build-up to it

well I mean I was I was definitely a lady in waiting um which means that that was a book I don't remember who wrote it but that was a book that our Bible study did that was basically right beside my Bible and everything. The checklist of the Proverbs 31 woman was something that I looked at a lot and I tried to be her. And I couldn't, I couldn't be her. But I was, I appreciated. It was a high standard. Yeah, a little bit. It was very specific. A little bit.

And it was all in relationship to the husband and the family as far as I can remember. Everything was contextualized in that. Yeah, like at first, there were a lot of rules around. Me as a woman, I somehow believe that, you know, that God didn't want me to wear spaghetti straps or God didn't want me to wear a two piece bathing suit anymore. Or, you know, I, I had to protect you from my body. So I had to cover my body and I didn't want to cause you to, you know, use some evangelical Christian words to stumble or to sin. Like that was,

that was my responsibility because you were the spiritual leader and I had to protect you from myself. You know, so that was, I liked the rules because it felt safe. And as an Enneagram six, I really value security and safety. So there was, there was a part of that, that I was kind of comfortable with. And I, you know, you were like the first super Christian that I ever dated. So, you know, like super devout, yeah. Super devout, devout like you you didn't want to hold my hand

except for like in certain like at certain points or like maybe on a on a on a random Wednesday you would call me and hold my hand and for some like for some reason I thought that was okay and that was great because I contextualized it in spirituality, which was what I was taught. So I think that you knew that my heart behind it was in the right place. But it was weird. Well, it was kind of weird because I was like, well, is he attracted to me? Of course I know he's attracted to me. But he's just being really disciplined and really strong.

And we're going to be rewarded for this on our honeymoon night. And if we would have stayed that chaste, like as chaste as we were up until our engagement that we didn't kiss or rarely hold hands or have a physical relationship, I can only, I mean, I feel like our wedding night would have been, it would have been, it could have gone any way. It could have gone a lot of ways it didn't go, right? So how do you feel, if you fast forward to that night,

how did you feel going into it and what do you remember? Well, I remember, like I had two I had two ladies like the week before kind of sit down and talk to me about the wedding night um and so I kind of knew what was gonna happen I wasn't really sure but like I was just gonna go with it but it it was really weird like I was just going to go with it, but it, it was really weird. Like I was excited, but it was also just really, really awkward because it was like some switch. Like you hear sometimes people like turn on, turn it, turn it off and on and switch from nothing. Like we can't do anything. And all of a sudden we can do everything. So that was just kind of, that was just kind of hard for me.

What was the last thing that filled you with wonder that took you away from your desk or your car in traffic? Well, for us, and I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is... Anime! Hi, I'm Nick Friedman. I'm Lee Alec Murray. And I'm Leah President.

And welcome to Crunchyroll Presents The Anime Effect. It's a weekly news show. With the best celebrity guests. And hot takes galore. So join us every Friday wherever you get your podcasts and watch full video episodes on Crunchyroll or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. We had a ramp up. I mean, our physical relationship really got going once we got engaged. And so then there was like the... I mean, our physical relationship really got going once we got engaged. And so then there was like the- I mean, kinda.

I mean, I've spoken about the gene jamming. Thanks for speaking about that and not telling me that you're speaking about that. I just did tell you that I did speak about it. I mean, so we had, I mean, there was no doubt that like the sparks were flying and that we were doing everything we could to not have intercourse until that night. So it wasn't, I mean, there was,

and we had talked about how we were gonna approach it, right, that we were gonna ease into it. Yeah, we prayed, like we prayed. What? We prayed. Yes, we did, didn't we? You forgot? Oh, yes, we prayed. So we get to the- You weren't supposed to pray. Well, we did, didn't we? You forgot? Oh, yes, we prayed. So we get to the-

You weren't supposed to pray. Well, on the wedding night. So wedding night. Oh, gotcha, okay. We weren't supposed to pray together before because it was too intimate. That was the thing y'all were looking forward to is praying together?

Shut up. But we did, didn't we? Like we got to the room. Let me tell you what we did. We knelt down beside the bed and held hands and we prayed together. You don't remember this? Completely naked.

No, I still had on my beautiful satin thingy that my mom bought me. You had on your lingerie and we got down on our knees and prayed. Yes, babe, we did. That is awesome. I love that you don't remember that. I remember it now, but I'd forgotten that we did that.

And then what? The satin thingy came off. It didn't come off immediately. And that's enough. And that's enough to share about that. Had you seen a wiener? Had you seen a wiener? I think it's time for Jessie to take over now.

Okay, Jessie, had you seen a wiener? I know the answer to this, cause Rhett's already said. I was actually gonna talk about whether or not I had seen a wiener. I'm sorry. Oh great because Rhett's already said. I was actually gonna talk about whether or not I had seen a wiener. I'm sorry. Thanks for ruining it, Rink. Rhett already mentioned it. Thanks for ruining it, Rink.

Do you want me to start with how to, now I'm all- No, just start with- I'm just convoluted. Start with where you wanna start with answering the question. Thank you. Jessie, it's just our vibe and our energy is so connected. I knew you wanted to talk about it. Thank you, Christy. There, there we go. I love you. Jessie, it's just our vibe and our energy is so connected. I knew you wanted to talk about it. Thank you, Christy.

Yeah, there we go. I love you. Yeah, go for it. Okay, so I had definitely gotten all the memos about sex being, sex outside of marriage being bad. Not something you wanted to do. A lot of the same as Christy. You know, my body could make men stumble. What I wore could make men stumble. I mean, I remember being at this Christian camp and having like a crying come to Jesus moment over my two-piece bathing suit and like promising God that I would

never wear a two-piece bathing suit again. Of course I wore a two-piece bathing suit again, but like there was a lot of internal turmoil over my two-piece bathing suit, a lot of pressure. You know, not only was sex bad, sexually adjacent things that could get you going were not ideal. And I think Rhett talked about his standard was higher even than my standard was in the beginning. And that that changed. in the beginning. And that, that changed. But I think along with that idea, you know, I'm, Christy said she's an Enneagram six, I'm an Enneagram two. And my like instinctual subtype is one to one or the sexual subtype. And so like that, what that means is that like, And so like that, what that means is that like, I am oriented to the world around my close relationships. And like, I want to be close, I want to be super connected, like I'm a naturally very like of that back for all these years. And so I had this idea that once I got married, if sex outside of marriage was bad, well, sex inside of marriage was not

only good, it was life-changing, earth-shattering, world world building like which is true right it it was you know it was gonna be this otherworldly like not just physical union but spiritual union the bible said so to become one flesh it's like you cannot this was a code you know i struggle with codependency so this was like a biblically mandated like dream for a codependent person like i can actually totally merge with this person that i'm in love with. So was it good? And I had never seen an adult penis. I mean, okay. Meaning you had seen like a baby penis.

You saw the Nirvana album cover. Everybody's seen baby penises. So like I, you know, I do remember- And mine is adult, just so you know. I mean, I was only 22 or 23, but it was adult. Full grown. You know, and an older woman had told me in trying to prepare me that- Oh gosh.

That the male genitalia looked like a man's insides had grown up and were now on the outside. Like a hernia? It's not an inaccurate description. Oh. And you were so ready to be connected to that. Oh gosh. Wow. So I mean, with all of that like background, all this like pressure, all of, I'm also an idealist. So I had like, you know,

sex was gonna be like the greatest thing. And if you kiss the frog, it'll turn into a prince. Mm-hmm. I would say, you know, it was anticlimactic not to be too on the nose. Well, you mean you literally did not climax. Yes, I did not. I never had an orgasm before.

I didn't know my body. I didn't know how to have an orgasm. And also like, I mean, this had nothing to do with Rhett or me. It just was like, huh. Okay.

That was a lot of buildup for something that was like fine. But it's okay because we're gonna get to try again anytime we want. And it's free. It's free. That's what Link said. Hold on, hold on, Christy, you don't remember my, the thing that was going through my mind

the first time we had sex? I don't, tell me. That was it. This is amazing and it's free. Okay. You know, I was just very frugal. He's a strange man, we all know that. We've been through it. Yeah, I don't know what to say about that.

So, okay, so we heard what was going through Jessie's mind. I don't wanna cut you off. Is there more that was going through your mind, Jessie? Cause I wanna hear what was going through Christy's mind in the act as well. Cause you were like, okay, that was it, huh? I mean, I just think the whole thing, especially the first time, you know,

I just, it was fine. It was just kind of- It's pretty good for me. I was having the time of my life. It was, you know, probably sooner than I expected it to be. Well, I mean, hey, listen, I admit that. I admit that. Yeah.

Of course. Christy, what about you? What do you remember thinking as it was happening? I really don't remember thinking a whole lot. Like just like the mechanics of like, how is this gonna, how do we do this? I like being able- We had three mechanics in the room with us.

Yeah, right. They had wrenches. That's what it requires sometimes. It was very sexy. Yeah, but it was like, yeah, it was everything. You think of any aspect of it and you're like, well, I can imagine, but I remember there was some trepidation because it was like,

is this gonna hurt? Yeah, I mean like that part, I don't remember it really hurting, just feeling like awkward. Um, and then, okay, but this is supposed to feel good. So like, this is just something that we're going to have to work on. Like, and we do like, we get, we get to do this whenever we want to as many times a day as we want to try. And like, we will get better at this. And this is what I've been waiting for.

But there were no, you don't recall any sparks flying or any like, whee! Well, I mean, are you trying to get me to say something? No, I'm just saying that was my experience and there's a contrast there, which is interesting. Well, like I was excited about, I got my mom, my mama let me go to the tanning bed. Yeah.

Before I got married and that was like the only time that she let me go to the tanning bed. So like, I don't know if y'all remember, but like they had these little Playboy bunny stickers. And so I had really been working on my sticker placement and my tan. And like, I was excited to show you my tan. Oh, I was excited to see it.

I remember there being like less tanned hearts. I don't remember a Playboy bunny. I think I put hearts in certain places and Playboy bunnies. And I was excited about being that tan and like you getting to see me super tan. Well, you know what? You're probably the only one who didn't. Me and Jessie both went to the tanning bed

before our wedding. Did you not go? I'm sure I was tan, but I needed no bed. Well, but to get, how are you gonna get your cheeks tan? You can't, you can't, you wanna go out on the poolside somewhere? Yes. Expose yourself? This is Lake we're talking about.

Well, I didn't wanna have burnt buns. He's not gonna spend money on a tanning bed. That's right, Jessie. Right, that is not free. He's not gonna spend money. It is not free. So I think there's a common theme here in that, you know, frankly, neither of you had an orgasm on your wedding night.

Neither of you kind of understood necessarily what that was and what that would feel like. It was something that thankfully we eventually came to figure out. And I will say, I do want to give credit to the men in Campus Crusade who had talked to, at least read, I'm assuming, Link 2. And we were talking a little bit about this last night, like that book, Intended for Pleasure, which I don't think I read, but y'all did read. though, you know, we were dealing with purity culture and all the ways that messed us up and, and, uh, you know, there is so much hurt and pain because of that. However, there was a lot of like discussion about the woman's pleasure as well. Um, in marriage,

of course it had to be within the context of marriage, but that was something that was talked about with at least Rhett was talked about that. Yeah, definitely me too. But you guys were never encouraged, I mean, I know because we weren't either, to masturbate in order to understand yourself. And so it's like there was this dependence on

Absolutely. being within marriage and waiting to have to figure all that out. Yeah. So that's true. First of all, you did not give us anything on our three questions that we thought we might be talking about.

And there wasn't anything about orgasm or masturbating on it. So I think you're trying to trick us into talking about this. And I don't appreciate it. Okay, but that was kind of a joke, right? Was that kind of a joke? I'm very happy to be here though.

Very happy to be here. Well, she is smiling when she's saying these things. Go ahead. Well, I think, like something that I kind of wanted to say, and there was, like Jesse was saying, there is a lot from purity culture that has been kind of traumatizing and scarring and just really hard that we've worked through as adults.

just really hard that we've worked through, you know, as adults. And, you know, for me, I didn't realize, you know, like, I kind of liked the rules. There were a lot of things that I feel like I feel grateful for our dating relationship and just how it was led. And, you know, yeah, there were frustrating things, but I also felt safe. Now, was that an illusion of safety? Maybe. I don't know. But I felt safe and I didn't really realize. That like a lot of the trauma or the shame until like I would say just in like, you know, the last 10 or 15 years as I've like been going through my deconstruction of, oh, this is, wait a minute, this is actually part of purity culture.

And, you know, so just now. Are you thinking of a specific example? You know, so just now. Are you thinking of a specific example? Well, I mean, just like as a 43 year old woman, like learning to, you know, love, love my body and that it is OK to wear a tank top. And like, you know, like I'm 43 and I still will think about, oh, well, I mean, I can't I can't wear. Oh, yes, I can. Like, it just, it's very ingrained. You know, and like, we have an 18 year old daughter and like, I want her to be able to express herself and wear what she wants to wear. And like,

you know, Jesse and I talk about this a lot. Like, we don't want our own stuff or our own trauma to be projected on what we tell our kids and like what we what we say to our kids. And it's like, oh, I want Lily to be free in all the ways that I wasn't and wear what she wants to wear. Yeah, I do think we're finding this. We're hoping to find this middle ground where there's purity culture has this damaging elements, but it's designed to, it creates fear and shame, but it's to protect you from things that like, I don't know if we'd have gone to the other extreme. Right, we only know what we've been through. Right, we don't know what could have befallen us there.

So obviously, but we were on an extreme, right? And so there's some negatives to it. So I think it's looking for that middle ground where we're not projecting on our kids, but we are trying to inform and protect them. And I mean, I think that's getting into the, I guess the next question is parenting. I do wanna clarify too,

because I wanna be clear that I'm, when you say middle ground, I don't think what you're saying is that you're trying to arrive at a middle ground in your perspective on purity culture, because I think that would come across as insensitive. Correct. And also, I don't think that's what you mean.

And we'll talk about this as we get into talking about parenting. What I would say is that we navigated a system that was set up to get you to a place where you got to marriage without having sex. And if you could navigate it, it could work and it worked for both of you and a lot of things fell into the right places.

It would work and you could be safe and you could be happy. But just statistically speaking, it's just a fact that in places that teach the abstinence only education and that purity culture is sort of what the cultural norm for teens, like those, there's a lot more damage and destruction left in the wake of that mentality than there is situations like us.

Like I almost, there's a part of me that almost feels like, I don't, I feel like we almost are misrepresenting things because we're two really good cases of how this could turn out. But when you look at statistics, you know, teen pregnancy and STDs in Mississippi are a lot higher than they are in Washington state. You know what I'm saying?

And there's a lot more Christians and a lot more purity culture in Mississippi than there is in Washington state. What I'm saying is there's gotta be another way. I agree with what you're saying and how you clarify what I'm saying. There's gotta be another way to protect our kids and educate our kids and give them standards

for their own integrity that they can then begin to live by. Right, so I think the question, and Jesse, we'll have you take this one first, is as parents, how has the fact that our worldview has shifted dramatically, that we no longer consider ourselves Christians or to have a Christian ethic when it comes to sex, but we've got kids and we gotta tell them something about sex, right?

So how has our approach to parenting, how has your approach to parenting in the way that you talk about sex and think about sex in terms of parenting, how has that changed as your worldview has changed? Well, I think, I mean, I wanna start out by saying parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done. And that's not a reflection on my kids. That's just like, it's just the reality of it, like trying to figure out, you know, and maybe a bit, a large part of that is like, is a change in perspective is knowing that, you know, coming to the conclusion that the way that I

did it, you know, our dating story, my beliefs, they were a way they were not the way. beliefs, they were a way they were not the way. And so, you know, I think it does make you feel kind of, in some ways, anchorless. And like, okay, what I had this framework, I had this very black and white, this very binary way of, of seeing the world of teaching my children of, and like, sure, it was, you know, as Christie said, sure, there were rules, but it also was like very clear. And now I am things are not clear. I am things are not clear things are not black and white um which is one of the reasons you know I've been in a lot of therapy and I would never deign to give somebody parenting advice because I think parenting again it's the hardest thing I've ever done. It is. Every kid is different. Every parent is different.

Every backstory is different. Every town is different. Every, you know, I just, to try to say this one way is the best and this is going to work for everybody. And then there's the question of, well, what does work mean? You know, what is, what does work mean? You know, what is, what do you even mean by that? I mean, you look, you say like, okay, our relationships worked. Well, we're still together. I think, you know, I would say both of us have really healthy, loving, as far as, as I know, like we both feel happily committed to each other.

But that may not be somebody else's definition of working. I have kind of taken on like a harm reduction model in parenting. And it's like, I know I'm going to do harm because I'm a human. They're humans. How can I do the least amount of harm? How can they, which maybe sounds fatalistic, but, you know, I just, I think the best thing I can do as a parent is to work on my own shit so that I don't project it onto my kids, so that I don't believe that their journey has to look like mine, so that I don't try to have them fulfill unfulfilled dreams or

meet some standard that I didn't meet or a standard that I did meet. Well, go ahead. No, no. or a standard that I did meet. Well, go ahead. Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things that we've been talking about, me and you, I know, is that, man, it would be easy, not easy, it would be easier, and this may just be my perspective because I'm no longer in it, it would be easier if I could just give the kids

the blueprint and the framework of like, this is what you're supposed to do, this is what you're not supposed to do. Here it is, it's in this book. It's not really in this book, but we've kind of added on and made it seem like it's in this book. And here it is, take it. And now I just, I've given you all the information

and do with it what you will. From a parent standpoint, that sort of one size fits all, these are the rules for everybody is a much easier thing to do. Once you start saying, actually, maybe it's different for different people and not everybody's the same

and everybody's on a different point of the spectrum, now it gets cloudy and it gets complicated. You know, one of the things that I've said, you call it the harm reduction model. The way that I've kind of worked it out in my brain is that as opposed to approaching, you know, the way I think about sex and the way I think about parenting when it comes to sex and from a moral framework,

I think about it from a health framework, right? Like what's actually the healthiest thing? Because I know for a fact that our kids, whether in some regards, I think whether we had told them this or not, whether we had given them a Christian framework or not, I don't necessarily think they would be abiding by it. But the fact is, is that they don't have the same

ideological framework that we had coming up that kept us so in lockstep with each other and committed to these principles. And so to put those expectations on them, to behave in the same way that we did would be a ludicrous expectation that would do so much damage to our relationship. But like Link said, but there are realities

about the nature of sex, right? There's consequences to sex. Like sex is very pleasurable, but sex is also the primary means by which we procreate. So pregnancy, that's an option. STIs, that can happen. Emotional entanglement is something that can happen. There's a lot of different things that are just realities about sexual relationships, right? So I think the model that, go ahead. Well, no, I mean, I was just going to say, you know, I think one other element that, you know, in thinking about those things, of course, open communication, trying to work on my own shame about sex so that I don't project that shame onto my kids and they have shame.

Having other adults in their life that they can talk to, whether that's a therapist or like a younger, an aunt or an uncle or whoever that like, you know, they're not going to want to tell me everything. Sometimes they'll tell me more than I want to know. we miss out a lot in, in the way that we live now is that we don't have the community aspect that we have at other times where you have these other people that you trust, that your kids trust, that they can, you know, talk about these things too. And like one other thing I want to say, I just want to clarify, like in saying I felt anchorless, you know, I think that has negative connotations for sure. And yet, the more stuff, the more of my own stuff I work out, the more I feel it I'm kind of in an open field in my mind in a way that like I hadn't been in the past. And so, and the more in parenting, one thing we talk a lot about in therapy with my parenting is like the tighter I grip onto an idea or a standard or whatever it is, usually the worst things go. And the more I release and the more I trust and the more I'm not talking about being naive. I'm not talking about

letting your kids do whatever they want. I'm just talking about like a kind of position towards my children of like they are their own beautiful souls whose life and journey and destiny, all of it is going to look different than mine. And like, what can I do to help them become, to help them know that they are going to mess up. They are going to not not always live up to their own standards, whatever those may be. You know, in the same way, the more that I model that in my own life, I think the more that frees them up to be able to do that as well. Christy, where's your head at when it comes to this conversation? Let's get in on it. I mean, I agree with a lot of the things that Jesse has shared. And I mean, I think like love and acceptance and communication, you know, have just been like, I mean, my therapist, we were just talking about it yesterday. She was just like, your family, y'all talk so much to each other. your family, y'all talk so much to each other.

And like, yet there's still humans, individual humans on their own path, running their own race that have their own opinions and will make their own decisions. that have their own opinions and will make their own decisions. And I am not very good at opening my hands and just watching it happen. Um, because you know, it's there, there is so much of it. That's beautiful. Um, when you do see this, this human like grow up into like this adult.

And like, it's, it's kind of cool. Like to see the woman that Lily has become and like watching Lincoln become a man and like just kind of watching them figure out life, you know, because they don't, of course they don't want to talk to their parents about sex but i just want it to be something that we can talk about openly like why does it have to be so weird to talk about sex like i think that's my fault i think i'm the reason well we can just make everything weird yeah i was gonna say we can just say that really about everything because you make everything awkward. Right, so it kind of brings everything up to a weirdness

that is usually reserved for just sex talk. I bring everything to sex talk weird. So then sex talk weird just is camouflaged. I mean, when we first, but yeah, it's de-stigmatizing the word sex, like in the house, in my house growing up and in my family, you just didn't use the word or you whispered it. And like on the way I was dropping Lando off

at school this morning, he was like, I was talking to him about getting the technical stuff set up for you to join. She was like, he was like, what is she, what is mom doing? It was like, oh, we're doing, you know, we're having the series about sex. And he's like, oh, you don't have to talk to me about that. I'm like, but we do want, there's nothing wrong with talking about sex

and we want to talk about it openly because it's not something that needs to be whispered about. So I'm telling him that at that moment, that's like the instinct to be, to flee from the word and the concepts as an 11 year old is something that, hey, we just wanna gently push back on and not whisper about and make that decision.

The fundamental differences that I see between the way that we thought about sex 20 years ago and the way that we think about it now is that I was in a place as a conservative evangelical where I had been sort of misled and lied to, like things were mischaracterized, but all in the name of protecting you, right? So it's like, we're gonna lie

or we're gonna come up with things that are not true about the way condoms work and the way AIDS, HIV can get through the condom. And Christy can speak to that. I mean, Christy, what's one of the thing that you heard that kept you from having sex in high school? My, that my favorite grandmother that was already in heaven was watching me.

The cloud of witnesses. Yeah. And was she into sex? Well, I don't, I mean. Did that stop when you got married? Well, that's what I'm gonna say. It's like, I mean, I guess she's still watching me. She's clapping.

Oh, she's clapping. Oh, Christy. She's happy, she's real happy. But the idea that we had to be told things that weren't true to protect us from something and it was rigid, it was one size fits all. I think the biggest difference for me at this point is like, the more truth that I can dispense into this situation,

the more things I can say, the more my kid can know about this, because listen, like I said, it's not saying that like, oh, sex is free, sex is free, and have it with anybody anytime you want, there are no consequences, it's been completely, it's not a sacred thing, it's just a physical act. I don't believe that.

I think it's a beautiful thing. I think it's a sacred thing. I think there are big, deep consequences to it. I think it's something that should be taken seriously. But I think I don't have to make that up. I think that's just, that's an evidence-based approach based on the consequences of this act and the nature of the way humans are emotionally.

So it's more of a, it's more trusting. Listen, this is difficult to do, trusting your children, right? And saying, I'm gonna give you all the information. I'm gonna do my best to model the things that I think that you should do because I know my modeling is gonna be much more effective than my talking to you.

And then hoping for the best versus just trying to protect them and give them some rigid rules that I know they're not gonna follow. Does that make sense? Well, and I mean, I think that we all want a formula for parenting. I know I do. I would love to have a formula that you do this,

this and this, and it spits out this kind of kid who then is going to fulfill all of my dreams about how I was going to parent and how a kid was going to be or do or whatever. And that just, do or whatever. And that just, it doesn't exist. It wouldn't be good for us if it did exist. You know, I think the most, the most growth I've had to see in my own life has been through, like struggling through some of these parenting questions and continuing, continuing to struggle through them. Yeah. I think coming out of our experience and now ushering our kids through their own experiences that are so different than ours, we cannot speak from our experience as much.

So we're learning so much at the same time and I think trying to foster a trust with our kids where we can have difficult conversations and where we're not the end all be all bringing the authority to every point of view in every issue but there's things that we're having to figure out together. And it is particularly challenging. Yeah, and I was gonna say like,

between me and Jesse and then like our, our girlfriend thread, like we, like I'm keeping this list of things that they didn't tell you at a baby shower. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, because when, when you're pregnant, you know, you decide to have kids and you become pregnant and then you go to this baby shower and let's talk about the stroller and the car seat and the diapers and all these things that that you know you you're bringing in a newborn and a human and it's just like when do we get to talk about like raising teenagers and like sex well right when you're in the middle of it and you're screwing it all up and you don't know what you're doing yeah yeah but i mean

that but the other i mean but the on the other foot what do you say on the other hand on the other foot either one um you also but that like that book doesn't that it doesn't exist it's like what jesse's saying it's like that formula isn't there like because each kid is different and each parent is different and like you just have to figure it out. Yeah. And we wanna go ahead and move on to the last question just cause I know people wanna hear us talk

about maintaining a vibrant sexual relationship after 21 years of marriage, 21 years of sex. So, Christy, let us have it. of sex. So, Christy, let us have it. Well, let's see. I don't know what I want to say right now. Hold on. Okay, go ahead.

Can you start? Yeah, I mean, one of the things that- Can one of you start? I think before we got married, and it's a thought that comes up a lot for me is that sex is not a thermostat, it's a thermometer. And I think that still rings true, is that you can't have sex in order to make,

to manipulate your relationship into a better place, but your sex life more often than not can be a good indicator of how well your relationship, how well you feel connected in the other areas of your relationship. I don't, I wanna reserve the right to say that's not a blanket statement and that there is an interplay both ways,

but there's, I guess, at the risk of it being a sexist remark to say that sex begins in the kitchen. I don't know if I like that specifically, but the general principle of our physical intimacy is, first of all, in sex is paired with an emotional intimacy that then is fueled by our relationship in all other areas. And so if things, if we're going through a difficult time with each other, it's like, you know,

that makes sex more difficult. Or if we're going through a difficult time together about other things, it makes sex more difficult. And over the course of 20 years, we've weathered so many things that have built and strengthened our love for each other. We've lived multiple lives together and miraculously remained together.

And I think that is reflected in our sex life, that it's a priority for us. And, but that means that sometimes it needs to be scheduled so that we will follow through with it. So these are some of the things I'm thinking, you pick up on any of that you want. Okay, I got you, I got you. Yeah, I think like priority is the word

that I needed to hear to get me started. Thank you for that. A little verbal foreplay there. I think like, I do believe that our sexual relationship is sacred. And that's why I don't, I don't know, it's just like to take care of it, just like I would any other aspect of our relationship. And I think the two of us separately learning as much about being on our own journey and learning what we have about ourselves individually. what we have about ourselves individually has made it to where like we're like closer now than we've ever been and dealing like we've dealt a lot with like I think about the in sickness and health like we've we've dealt a lot with like my sicknesses and being on different

medications that like take my sex drive away and like, oh, well, we can't be on that medication because this is really important to us. So let's switch medications and, you know, just really taking time to, I understand and appreciate what you need. You understand and appreciate what I need. Like we take a lot of trips together because I have anxiety and I need to get out of my house in order to really focus. And like, I feel like some of our best sex is when we're on trips. Oh yeah. You know, it's like, you take me, we take each other to like these beautiful places and like, I am really able to be present and-

Cause at home you've got like, is there a kid that's gonna try to come through the door and our lock doesn't quite work? Cause if it fully works, then we're locked in. Well, but now it's like Sokka and Jasper. Like Sokka and Jasper, it's not even the kids anymore, it's the animals. But I made a point, I was like, listen,

dogs, pets are not gonna ever be a reason that we're not gonna have sex. Barbara has- We had this conversation. Barbara goes into her crate. She's like instinctual. They kind of know. She like looks kind of shameful and just kind? Barbara goes into her crate. She's like instinctual. They kind of know. She like looks kind of shameful and just kind of just goes into her crate.

And sometimes- Mommy and daddy are doing that thing again. And you know what? If it's a big enough bed, if the dog's gonna stay on the bed, the dog's gonna stay on the other side of the bed. But the dog is not- I don't like that.

Like it is an unacceptable reason. Like this is something that we agreed on, right? It's like- Yeah, yeah, totally. Because you can find yourself having, there's so many circumstances that keep you from not being ready or not being the right time. The proverbial headache of it all,

but it's so much more than that when you've got so much life that you're living that you have to say, and you get exhausted. So it's like at 9 30, one of us is asleep. Nine o'clock, maybe one of us is asleep. So it's like at 9.30, one of us is asleep. Nine o'clock, maybe one of us is asleep. So it's like, okay, let's do day sex. But then when are the kids not gonna be around? I mean, I also think that like creativity

in like locations and like being willing to, I mean, you can have sex in other places than like your bed. And I'm not talking about like going on trips, but I'm talking about get creative. The stairs. One time we locked ourselves in the garage because the garage locked in such a way that like no one could get in there.

That was fun. Cause we had a mattress in there that we were storing. Oh, an old one? It wasn't that old. It was covered. Jessie, give us your perspective on this. I mean, I wanna say that like, I do feel like, you know,

our sex life is better than it's ever been. And it's something that continues to get better and better. And I learned something about you a few weeks ago that- I had a second penis that- Just let her talk. That I decided to finally reveal. I actually wanna know what she learned, if she's willing to share.

I'm not going to, no, I'm not going to tell you what I learned. Oh, come on. People can benefit. the, I think,

you know, in the same way that like, you can get into negative communication patterns in your marriage. Like, it's very easy to get into patterns, like with how you have sex or how you or this person's going to do this then I'm going to do this then whatever and so continuing to like talk to talk about things continuing to ask hard questions continuing to be like vulnerable I mean that's

the thing I think I sometimes I think I have more of a problem of like oversharing just in general. But I think in our marriage to be able like to continue, I mean, have it growing sexually with your partner is a constant kind of willingness to be vulnerable and to maybe be embarrassed, but to know that like, it's worth it to try new things, to try new places, to try new whatever, you know, one of my favorite, favorite people who talks about sex is Esther Perel. She has a great podcast. Can I wreck another podcast on your podcast? Of course. Is that a bad thing to do? Yeah, it's better than this one. But Where Should We Begin is her podcast where she talks to couples about what's going on in their life, what's going on in their relationship. And often, you know, their sex is involved. And she has done a lot of research on human sexuality, eroticism.

And so one of the things she says is love enjoys knowing everything about you and desire needs mystery. And so I think, you know, it's hard to do when you have been married for 20 years. So continuing to find new ways to have mystery, you know, Rhett's really great at accents. That's... Wee wee. I'm so thrilled.

Would you like to see my second wee wee? Ah, Cookie Monster lovey cookie. How about that? Yeah. Nibble nibble cookie cookie. Yeah, you don't know the half of it. But you know, I think not like, knowing that it's important,

not often it takes one person, one partner being willing to put something out there. You're maybe going to be embarrassed about it, but it's going to be worth it. And we have so much fear and shame around sex. And there's so much potential for it to be incredible. And I think the more vulnerable and open and real and creative you can be,

the better it is. But there ain't nothing wrong with a quickie every now and again, just to like- Yeah, absolutely. Keep that rhythm up. And even that. I mean, even that, I think- As long as you're using the Cookie Monster accent. Cookie Monster hungry, it goes real quick.

But I mean, even that, you know, that's something we talk about, like, okay, what's our ratio of quickies to like lovemaking? What is like the good, the golden ratio of that? And again, it's just like the combination of like being willing to be open and vulnerable, but then also figuring out the ways to discover your partner anew and to find mystery.

Well, we could continue talking to y'all for hours, but we actually can't right now. And I know people wouldn't want that, but. So listen, thank you for coming on here and being vulnerable. Like you said, this is the first time you've been on the podcast and you're talking about these intimate things.

Jumping in the deep end. This is the best way. Yeah, this is the best way. Just rip the bandaid off, get right into it. I know that a lot of people out there will appreciate your perspective. And so I'm glad you're able to give a little bit of the other side of the coin.

It's a needed perspective. And very needed in just our lives. We need you. Yeah. Each individual. The labia to our cock and balls. Oh Lord. Okay, well, thank you for having us. This is wonderful.

It was really beautiful. Love you, baby. Christine and I are gonna go, what's the word when you talk about what just happened debrief thank you that's the one yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna change my shirt because of my armpit sweat all right all right started out with diarrhea ended with armpit sweat we'll see see you tonight keep Keep it real. All right. Bye. Bye. Okay, so the girls have gone back to whatever they need to be doing today

and we are left in basking in the afterglow of having them on Ear Biscuits talking about sex. That was wonderful. It was thrilling and I know that everyone is just going to wish that they were on every single week or maybe in place of us. Maybe I feel a little threatened. You know, and I think- They did so well.

I think, I mean, obviously each one of those, the thing is that each one of those questions could have been its own episode. Right. And also, I mean, each one of those questions could be its its own episode. Right. And also, I mean, each one of those questions could be its own podcast with multiple episodes. Yeah. Like exploring one of those things and I'm sure those exist. But so, I think that we kind of scratched the surface

on a few of those things, but I do think that getting their perspective illuminated these issues in a big way. We did want to just take, before we wrap up, Link's gonna kick off this story, which I think it ties in perfectly with the last question, which is what do you do to keep things spicy 20 years into your marriage?

Let's leave them with the story of the first time we bought vibrators. Yeah, how about that? Heck yes. Hell yes. Damn yes. I don't know, let's get dirty. You don't have to emphasize it that much. Yeah, well, female orgasms are very important.

Yeah, and I think- Let's just say that. I think we did establish that those are a regular, okay, I'll go as far as to say, I think we did establish that those are a regular, okay, I'll go as far as to say, there's a book that I haven't read that's called She Comes First, and I don't have to read it to know that I abide by this particular philosophy. Yeah.

So once- Because it's a guarantee for us, but it's not for them. Like you talk about, they talk about the first time, it was like, okay, is first time. Once we figured out how the orgasm could be achieved, that became something that was now, it is the priority and it is something that happens every time. Now, maybe there are some quickie situations

every once in a while in which it's very clear that Jessie has made, she's like, I'm making an exception right now that this isn't about me, this is about you and that's an understanding. Is an understanding, yeah. But that's a rare exception. So I would say that- The gold standard- The gold standard.

Is to both have an orgasm, which means her having it first. And then, hey, sometimes you can work this system. You can get the timing right sometimes. Or to be just together, which is exhilarating. Back, let's see, you and I were traveling the Mid-South region working with crew and we were speaking on campuses.

For context. That was our job. Listen, we're on staff of Campus Crusade for Christ, an interdenominational Christian organization, working full time for them. So this is when we're still in it. Talking to students about sex. We're still in it.

No, we weren't talking about sex. We were still in it. We were talking about evangelism. Yeah. How to share your faith with your friends on campus. And one of the- But we weren't prudes about, I just, you know- Well, the story is gonna show that we're not prudes.

Right, yeah. I'm just giving the context for, we were in Charleston, South Carolina, and we had taken a circuit to get there. So we had been gone for, I don't remember how long, but it had been a while. And we had made arrangements, Hey, Christy and Jesse, you guys drive down and meet us in Charleston

because it's a romantic city, we can hang out there. Number one travel destination in the nation. We'll take a few extra days. For some reason. It's great, but I mean, come on. I find that hard to believe. It's been like, I mean, shrimp and grits is good. 10 years in a row. But it's quite humid down there. By like Travel and Leisure magazine or something,

some big publication, Charleston's the place to be. Don't go at the hot times unless you wanna create a hot time. So we knew that Christy and Jesse were coming into town that night and we had each gotten a nicer hotel room than we would normally stay in. This is how I remember it.

We had decided that day we were walking around town and we were like, let's go to a sex toy shop. Let's go to an adult store and buy something to spice up what's gonna happen tonight because we've been away from our wives. I think this has probably been, this was in the first couple of years of marriage. Still on staff, it was early.

Yeah, so we go into this place and it, I mean, it wasn't an Adam and Eve, but it's like one of those. A little more Charleston. I remember it was like what? There was a gentle breeze blowing through it. I don't know why it was a Charleston. There was a porch, there was a porch.

There was a swing set. There was shrimp and grits. You gotta grind those grits. You just gotta grind those grits. It was a little awkward perusing this shop with you. And what we didn't wanna do is look at pornographic images on the packaging, but there's- We were still a little scared of that. So we didn't, we felt like that was wrong. look at pornographic images on the packaging, but there's-

We were still a little scared of that. So we didn't, you know, we felt like that was wrong. So we were avoiding that, but I don't know which one of us found it, but one of, and because I think we kind of split up. We were both perusing a little bit, but one of us found a vibrator that was neon green and it didn't have a naked chick

or a naked dude on the packaging. It actually had a doctor's, it was like, it was branded by like some sex doctor. A gynecologist sleeping in a lab coat. And so it kind of had more of a clinical, beginner, dildo type vibe to it. Now that you're talking about it, now, okay, do you still have this, you guys collect everything.

Do you still have this vibrator? No, we don't. At a certain point, we just- We've upgraded a few times. We vibrated it into oblivion. But it was about this long. Yeah, well, how long is that for the listeners? I'm saying that's four and a half to five inches.

Right, and it wasn't shaped like a penis. It was- It's like a worm. It had like a grip. Christy and I called it the green worm. We called it that because it might have been what the name on the package was. If we haven't made it completely obvious, Rhett and I both bought the same vibrator.

Well, two of them. We didn't share it. You didn't like clean it up and FedEx it to each other. Monday, two of them. We didn't share it. Yeah. You didn't like clean it up in FedEx and do it to each other. Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. It's the Neil night with the green worm. We weren't making any money in those days. We probably should have split it.

It was a battery powered, silicone undulated landscape of pleasure. And yeah, we called it the green worm. You bought the same one. We didn't tell our wives that we were doing this. Or that we bought the same one. Or that we bought the same one.

Initially, of course. Of course, there's many times in life where one of us has done the research on an item. Yeah. Well, the best TV is this one. Okay, well, that's what I'll get. Well, I'll get the same TV. We literally, the first TV we got as married couples

was the same TV from Circuit City. Same TV, same vibrator. Keep it in the family. But you didn't call it the green worm, I don't think. I mean. But I did refer to it affectionately because it became something that was, we felt very affectionate towards

and we felt very affectionate because of it. Well, at times I felt jealous of it. Here is the thing that we also bought. Do you remember we bought something else? Well, I don't, but I'm gonna remember when you tell me. Sex masks. I thought it'll be a good idea to buy like,

it's like a sleep mask. I didn't buy one of these. You didn't buy one? I don't know what you're talking about. A blindfold, man. A mask, a very comfy mask that might be a sleep mask. I have one now. For sleeping, not for sex.

No, I have a sex blindfold. Oh, we don't have one now. Really? We should get one. So my idea was I'm gonna buy this, and then, and this is what I, this is Christy calling me right now. Hey, can I call you back?

We're still recording the podcast. Talking about vibrators. Okay, love you. She just said, okay. So my plan was, well, they show up that night. We don't tell them that we've got vibrators. We don't tell them anything. And then the thing that I did was, oh, it's like, you know, she's up that night. We don't tell them that we've got vibrators. We don't tell them anything. And then the thing that I did was,

oh, it's like, you know, she's coming into town. Well, that's really, you're at a hotel. You haven't seen each other for a while. You're weary from the road. And then I was like, so the way I did it was I said, hey, I got you something. And she opened up this little bag and it just had the mask in it.

And I was like, why don't you just put the mask on? And then we started having some fun with the mask on. And then I introduced the green worm into things and it was like, what is happening? This may be a little too much too fast. The mask came off and it was like, what the crap is this? And then, but it was like, okay.

So then we, it was just an exploration in figuring out, oh, what is this? How do we incorporate this? And it wasn't something that we immediately knew how to do, but it was fun figuring it out. But the mask wasn't really a great move on my part. I definitely didn't use the mask, but I used the green worm quite a lot.

And then subsequent worms of different sizes and shapes. Now, one of the things that I think for context is that Jesse and Christy, which they didn't talk about, but Jesse and Christy had never had their own vibrator. Right? Like it's more commonplace, especially in like secular circles, but also just more commonplace today that like-

No sexual urge was validated for them. And it was even, I mean, you heard their stories. Yeah. There was a lot more placed on them than us. But there was a very interesting combination of factors that I think based on our stories kind of played itself out in both of our marriages and I'm grateful for this. And that is, yes, we were in this place

that kind of suppressed and attached shame, but the nature of our relationships and the nature of our communication and also the general openness towards sexual experience and sexual exploration is at a pretty high level amongst, within both relationships. And there wasn't too much damage to remove us from having fun experiencing those things.

So you get this combination of, I've never seen a vibrator. Yeah. Speaking from my wife's perspective, I've never seen one of these, I've never experienced one of these, but not coupled with, and I also think it might be gross and wrong and weird and awkward and I don't wanna do it.

Right, that wasn't there. I've never seen this, but holy shit, when you turn that thing on, new things start happening. Things that, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna be honest with you, I'm pretty good, right, with my tongue, but I can't move it that fast. Try eating a couple of batteries first. And so the, eat a couple of batteries first. And so the, eat a couple of batteries.

Do not take medical advice from this podcast. Yeah, so we discovered, hey, this is a tool that we can use within the context of our lovemaking. And it was something that we would, you and I would talk. We would encourage each other. It's like, you know, unabashed passion for enjoying each other's, our wives' bodies. It's like, you know, unabashed passion for, you know, enjoying each other's, our wives' bodies

and them enjoying us was something that we encouraged each other. It wasn't a one-upmanship, but it was, sometimes it might've been a little close to that in terms of like, we would share things that like, hey, how are you using this thing? What are you doing? What's your technique?

What speed are you on? We would- Don't get too fast because you don't want them to be, you don't want them to forget about you. We would encourage, but we would encourage each other to experiment with our wives and have fun, obviously talking about them and not blindsiding them. Well, you literally put her in a blindfold.

So I didn't do that. It was very playful and it was kind of a prankish kind of a thing that like she was on board with that. But yeah. And as you look back over the course of our marriage, again, this is just, I haven't thought a lot about this until we've started talking about it. But you might be tempted to think that,

oh, so you guys had some weird views on sex and there was some weirdness and awkwardness and then you deconstructed and then you like turned on, all of a sudden there was a switch that was flipped and your sexual lives became totally different. Right. I would say that the progression of my sexual exploration and experience with Jesse has progressed geometrically

over time, not exponentially. I mean, I'm not a superhero. There's been a geometric progression over time of our sex life getting better and the things that we try expanding and like us experiencing each other in different ways and the communication has always been very in lockstep and very vibrant and there's been a lot of it.

And the deconstruction didn't solve a problem in that area. Right. And it didn't necessarily, it also very clear about this, it didn't introduce new problems in that area. I think if anything, I think it maybe did give us, expanded our minds in a couple of different areas, but I don't necessarily think that it was exclusively

because of the deconstruction. And I think that we, it's just an observation that if we had never deconstructed, we were still evangelical Christians, our sex life was still vibrant. Cause what I'm trying, I don't agree with purity culture. I obviously don't agree with evangelical Christianity.

I don't think that is true, but I don't want to also then try to make an argument that people, because you're in an evangelical relationship and evangelical marriage that you're not, you don't have a, you by default, don't have a great sex life. No, I actually don't think so. You might have some specific things

that you might have to overcome and navigate, but that's just not the case. I think that the sexual relationship in the context of a partnership, marriage, a relationship, whatever you wanna call it, is something that's very dependent on the communication climate and the sort of the boundaries and the standards

between those two individuals. And there was just a sexual compatibility that we kind of got lucky with because we didn't know that there was gonna be the level of sexual compatibility that we each have with our wives. We had a strong indication because it did, for me and engagement, it did ramp up.

And I feel like that really helped set us up for success on our wedding night. That it wasn't like going from cold turkey flipping a switch. Because I don't know what that would have felt like. And I've heard the horror stories from other people who years into marriage still aren't able to be intimate. Definitely aren't talking about it.

Talking about it. I just feel like the community, that's the number one thing for me is the communication. Because in every relationship, in communication because in every relationship, in every aspect of every relationship, communication is key and it just plays right into, like the moment, in the same way that you can have some sort of weird conflict that's going on

and there's resentment building and you're not addressing it. Right. Let's just say you're in one of those relationships where one of the people has halitosis. We talk about this all the time, right? And it's Right. You know, let's just say you're in one of those relationships where one of the people has halitosis. We talk about this all the time, right? And it's just like, okay, are you gonna become a person that just is in a relationship with someone

who has halitosis and everyone knows it? Are you gonna become the person that says, hey, you have halitosis and we need to address it. And I'm sorry that it hurts your feelings and makes you feel awkward in this one conversation, but together as a team, we can cure your problem. It's not gonna be that hard, actually. We just have to actually be on the same team

and we have to recognize the problem. If you let that kind of like, we're not talking about this because it's awkward, if you let that happen with sex, you could go a decade without experiencing this incredible sexual experience. And again, this may not be for everybody. One of the things that I didn't even know was a thing

until my adult life was asexuality, right? There's some people who don't experience sexual attraction. And so there's a huge spectrum, but I'm saying that if you are in a relationship and you are sexually attracted to each other, but yet there's a huge block in between you and you're not having a satisfied sexual relationship, and it's not because, listen, there are physical things,

there are people who are in accidents or suffer from some sort of complication or disease where you can't have sex, right? Or maybe you get old and it's just less of a priority or whatever. But I'm saying that if you're physically capable, you're in a relationship where you're attracted and you don't feel fulfilled

and you're not talking about it, the first step is talk about it. It isn't just like, hey, I'm gonna put the blindfold on and bring in the green worm. You can do that. No, don't do that. But how about just having a talk about it. It isn't just like, hey, I'm gonna put the blindfold on and bring in the green worm. You can do that. No, don't do that. But how about just having a conversation about it?

And that, I know it's difficult, but if somebody thinks that it's going great, but they haven't, sex is going great, but they haven't really talked about it and explored it with their partner, then it could be that it's just going great for them. You know, I think that's something we learned at first. It's like, that was not my recollection of our wedding night

that she would have said it that way. Well, I have since, she's told me that many times since then. I knew that she was not as satisfied as I was. Okay, let's leave it at that. I'm not gonna give a rec. I gave Jessie my rec in the middle of this thing, which was a-

It's the Per-El podcast. Yeah, where do we begin? Where do we begin? So next week, now first of all, I don't wanna make any promises, but there's still a lot left to talk about. Maybe we'll bring back Sextember next year. Who knows?

I don't know. But what we are definitely going to do is next week is the finale episode of Sextember where we're going to answer all the questions that have built up and- Hashtag Ear Biscuits, get in where you fit in. So we put a prompt out on Twitter in a couple of places so respond to that or just ask your question

with hashtag Ear Biscuits. We wanna know what it is that you want to know and we're gonna answer it. Talk at you next week.