Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Our Enneagram Numbers - A Look At Our Relationships | Ear Biscuits Ep.292

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

From sources of success to roots of strife, R&L take a deep dive in to how their Enneagram numbers affect their relationship with each other and their wives on this episode of Ear Biscuits! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Make your nights unforgettable with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it. Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event, skip to the good bit using the card member entrance.

Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong best friends talk about life for a long time. I'm Link.

And I'm Rhett. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we are continuing our conversation about the Enneagram. I do think that if you didn't listen to the last episode, you should listen to it before this one. But if you're not the kind of person that wants to do that, if you're an eight, an Enneagram eight, and you're like, screw you, I'm gonna do what I wanna do,

then you can listen to this one, it's fine, because I do think it will stand alone. We're gonna be talking more about how the numbers relate to each other, specifically how a three, that's me, a one, that's Link, relate to each other, some of the strengths and the weaknesses in that pairing. And we'll also talk a little bit about

some other relationships in our lives, probably just our marriages. And then maybe what we can do to grow based on what we've learned. That sounds like a good plan. I will measure the success of this podcast based on that criteria at the end. I'm sure you will.

Also, new episode of Ronstadt is coming out tomorrow. And in this episode, Ronstadt and Fay, his love interest, finally get some alone time. Is that right? Yeah, so if you're into, you know. Alone time? People getting alone time and listening to it. Episode four is for you, of course,

listen to episodes one, two, and three before you get to four. Is that where the mouth sounds came in? Actually, I think the mouth sounds come in a little bit later, but boy, there are some mouth sounds. Oh my goodness, I'm glad I wasn't there for the recording of those mouth sounds. I heard about it.

Yeah. I think we have some B-roll footage, maybe at some point we're releasing. But we're not gonna cut to it now. Nope. No, no. I wanted to kick this thing off just by talking about how I've been thinking about the previous episode.

It just struck me, you know, I had to, and I mentioned in the episode that I had to go to the dentist right after we recorded last week's episode. And so the appointment was pretty close to the end of the episode. As a matter of fact, I knew I had to be there. So I was kind of like shutting down the, making a decision, it's like, hey, I gotta get out of here.

We gotta start wrapping this thing up. So in as graceful a way as possible, I tried to get us to that point so that I could get to my dentist appointment. And then when the show was over, I immediately left, got in my car and rushed over there. And I just started to observe because I was totally in the head space

of observing my oneness, that the entire way to the dentist, I was just beating myself up about- For ending the podcast? And analyzing it. Well, that's where it started. Like I was like, I really don't like how I had to truncate our conversation.

And if Rhett did that to me, I would feel like that I was being rushed and that instead of processing and having like a nice gentle landing to the podcast, which is always important to me, we had to rush it and I just felt like, man, this is my fault. And I'm like driving down the road and I'm like,

you know, I'm gonna text Rhett right now. And I just wanna apologize for having to, you know, having to speed through the ending. And I think the reason why I wanted to do that is a very one reason and that's, okay, I didn't meet the standard of how I wanted, how I envisioned the episode wrapping up. Not necessarily what will be said,

but what it would feel like. That was actually the criteria that I felt like was missing. I didn't like that. And I didn't like, I assumed that you were thinking the exact same thing, but I was projecting that. And I was like, I wanna apologize because I want to acknowledge that I know that. So instead of receiving the criticism later,

cause that'll really hurt. That really hurts the one when it's, hey, this wasn't good enough. This didn't meet the standard. It's like, oh yes, I knew that. I was gonna say that first, you know? So that was the first thing. And then I start getting into the whole thing, you know,

and I'm sitting there and by the time I get to the dentist, I'm experiencing this anger, this frustration. And I sit down and she hands me an iPad and she's like, I know you've been coming- And you broke it. I know you've been, well almost. You broke it over your knee. She was like, I know you've been coming- And you broke it. I know you've been, well almost. You broke it over your knee. She was like, I know you've been coming here for years,

but we are on a new system and I need you to reenter all your information in again. Oh, that makes you mad. And I was like, seriously? And so it's like, create a username, create a password. Oh, this is the worst thing. And I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to create a password on your device, how am I supposed to create a password on your device.

How am I supposed to store that password? I have a system for storing my passwords so that they, I don't have to remember what they are and they're all unique. Yeah, this is bad news for a one. And then I open up my app to create the password and then I'm gonna manually transfer it to their dumb iPad.

That's the worst. And then what? Maybe they'll have my password, I don't know. Yeah, and you've accidentally used it for something else and next thing you know, your dental hygienist is getting money from your bank account. Yes, siphoning my bank account. I have trust issues with-

I don't trust hygienists. If you spend that much time in somebody else's mouth, something's gotta happen to your brain, to your moral compass. I mean, if there's anybody you should trust is someone who's shoving both hands in your mouth. I think they've gained so much trust from people that they exploit it.

My app, my password app wouldn't work. I tried it three, four times. I'm sitting there and now I'm just steaming. And I stood up and I say, you know what? Can we just do this next time? I'm just, I'm having a day that makes it where I'm basically incapable of creating, of filling out this information.

This reminds me of the time my mom took my kids to the place, the trampoline place where you jump. Yeah. And you know how you have to like fill out a computer screen that just like registers the child there and says that if they die it's your fault. Yeah. She got to that screen,

because my kids tell this story, they're like, mama and I got to the screen and she started realizing she was gonna have to like put our names in this screen and she was like, y'all do this. She was like, I'm not about to do this. Yeah, I had gotten to such a, I had gone into super critical mode and analysis mode of the last episode that,

I mean, the app didn't work. That wasn't my fault. But it kind of saved me because I'm gonna switch dentist anyway. After that, I don't wanna put my information in here. This is a good point to break off from you guys. Well, you've been talking, we go to the same dentist and you've been talking about it.

Well, the hygienist. For switching it. The hygienist, again, the hygienist doesn't follow the strict protocols that I've come to expect. Yeah, because when you told me. There's no flossing. The last time I went, she didn't floss. Well, that's your job.

But when you told me that you were thinking about switching, I was like, this would never cross my mind that I would switch dentist. Unless like the dentist was, you know, like asking me to commit crimes or something. But, and then I told Jessie, I was like, Link's thinking about, he thinks we should, Dennis is bad now. And I'm like, and she's like, how?

Like both of us could not understand. I can answer that question. Okay, I wanna hear the pitch for why I should switch. Well, because I've experienced meticulous dentistry where they're like, they're measuring your gums and they're like flossing your teeth and like giving you lectures on your gum health. And the last two times I went, none of that happened.

Well, maybe you've improved. Maybe you've gotten better. There was no assessment. I got an assessment last time and it was bad. It changed my ways, man. I floss every day because of it. The people in there are different. They've changed.

And- You mean they're literally different. They're literally different people. And I think it's changed hands and they don't have the same procedures. Okay, all right. And I wanna feel the pain because I wanna know that I've done everything I could for my health.

I want them to hold themselves to the highest standard because only then can I relax. When I'm like, hold on, I'm walking out and they didn't do this, that, and the other. Teeth are gonna fall out like a bad dream. It is a very one thing, right? Yeah. And plus they weren't really,

they also weren't that nice. Oh, okay, interesting. Well, I wasn't thinking any of that about the episode. I was not thinking, I was thinking a lot of other things too, but I don't wanna go into it. Here's the interesting thing. There was one thing that I was thinking a lot of other things too, but I don't wanna go into it. Here's the interesting thing. There was one thing that I was thinking,

I'm gonna save it. I'm gonna save it until we get into the conversation about ones and threes, because I was like, it's interesting when I read about this, because I felt this at one point during the episode, and it's the only, I mean, it's not really a criticism. It's just, it's something you said that made me feel a certain way

that I think is indicative of the one in the three. Yes. But I was not thinking at all about you cutting the conversation off because I knew that you had to go. And I know that was- And we had a part two. And I also was not thinking about like, oh, that didn't go well, or that could have been better. But what I was thinking,

apart from what I'm gonna get to later, is I can tell that Link is having a difficult time with this podcast. There's tension. Yeah. Because anytime, it's not just a conversation and it's like there's information that needs to be presented and even like, so we typically don't have many conversations

about the conversation that we're gonna have, right? But when we're gonna present information, it's one thing and it's like, okay, this is your episode where you're gonna talk about your deconstruction story. Yeah. And then it's just like, it's all in your head and it's all on your plate and you just do it.

And then vice versa. And we kind of know that the other guy is there to be supportive and to be a listener. But there are fewer and further between, there are these episodes where it's like, I've got something and you've got something and we have to coordinate the presentation. Yeah.

And every conversation we have about that is tense. There's a tension in that conversation. And I'm like, Link is really, he's very tense about us coordinating this podcast presentation. Yes. And it's like, and I want you to just relax. I want you to just relax so you can enjoy it.

Getting on the same page is what I think gets me to just relax. I want you to just relax so you can enjoy it. Getting on the same page is what I think gets me to that point. And if that doesn't happen, well, this is the other thing that I said I wasn't gonna go into, but like, hey, we should go into this. Yeah, you're exactly right. Maybe we should move ahead

and talk about the threes and the ones, because I think it actually will illuminate the, for people who are like, what are you guys talking about? You seem crazy. Seem like a couple of dental hygienists. I'm really throwing dental hygienists under the bus. I love them, they're great.

I don't think they're criminals. They don't get enough credit because the dentist just comes in and like looks at your teeth and like gives a thumbs up. Dentists are suckers. They're the ones who suck. He brings out a couple of tools. Yeah, right.

But it's the hygienist that does the real, I mean, all that measuring, all the stuff that I'm critical of is of the hygienist because like they're the key in my mind. Right, right, right, right. And I did vent some of this to Christy and like you talked to Jessie, I talked to Christy and then Jenna came by and since she was sitting in the room

like Christy was like, she got it. You know, Link's not happy about the episode and I was actually encouraged. Jenna, what you said was very helpful because what she said was, I thought it was just a classic exhibition of each of your numbers in full force in that episode. There we go.

And that made me feel better because I felt like it redeemed everything that I was critical of because it was like, I was critical of things where it's like, oh, I was too controlling or this didn't, or you didn't meet my expectation or my standard and it didn't go the way that I felt. You know, all of that, I'm assuming as they listened,

there was like a smile on people's faces that was like, cause Jenna said this, we don't even know how much we are like going into our numbers, you know? Yeah, we're very, some people are not as pronounced in their numbers, but we are. It's so ironic that we were talking about it, yet having this level of like, I was more aware of it, but still, it's a lot of work to be aware

and to respond to it. And I think that's the other thing through the lens of our number interactions that we can talk about like our paths to growth and integrating this information. Yeah. Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers.

Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. I thought we could just start reading through this relationship description. The Enneagram Institute has a really, again, I've already plugged the website, but I love the website because of the way it's organized and it's simple and you don't have to read a book

to kind of understand the basics of the Enneagram. But one of the things that they have is this section under the learn tab, where it says relationships, and then you can click on your type, and then you can click on the type, another type and see how those two types interact. And so this is the Enneagram one, the reformer,

that's Link, with the Enneagram three, the achiever, that's me. And if you click on. And it doesn't matter whether you go from one to three or three to one, it goes to the same page. Okay, good. Because I could tell that you were like, are we doing this the right way?

I was just curious if one's first, is it something different. No, it just, I mean, it has them in numerical order on each page. Read through it and I'll amen it or I'll be like, maybe not. Yeah, we'll just see where we relate. And when we get to the thing that I was talking about

earlier, I'll tell you what it was. Maybe you'll anticipate it. Enneagram ones and threes are both competent, serious-minded and idealistic. Yes. This serious minded thing, which I think we've shared a little bit before. Okay, yes, we're comedians and we may cut the fool.

Constantly. As we interact with each other in front of you. But as, and Jenna could probably tell you this, if you just hang out with us as we're doing our work, it's not fun. We're not, our creative process is not fun. We're not like these fun, happy-go-lucky guys constantly making jokes, constantly laughing.

Like it is like two people working on a serious problem, even if it's a really dumb thing that we're working on. I'll go beyond that. I'll say even when we are just hanging out with our friends, if a mythical beast were to hang out as a fly on the wall with us and our friend group, I think they would be surprised at how- Serious we are.

How serious we are. You know, it's like, I mean, we have a good time, but it's not like, I think they may think that we would be on, but we're not. And I think the thing is, is that if we were as unserious as we tend to be when we're in our performance mode all the time. We couldn't live with ourselves.

You wouldn't be watching, there would be no podcast. There would be no Mythical Entertainment. None of this stuff that we've been doing for over a decade would actually have happened, which, okay, let's get into that because this, back to the website, this is a highly task-oriented relationship with both partners driven to hard work and to be intensely aware when individually

and collectively they are not measuring up to their own expectations and high standards. Yeah. So it goes without saying, it's pretty self-explanatory and very true of both of us. But I would say we push ourselves. I think we're pretty good at supporting each other.

Like even in a recent conversation we had, I was talking to you about like how sensitive I am to pulling my weight. At this, as I described a few weeks ago, we're at this phase, creative phase, where a lot of things are speculative and we're just writing things. We're just kind of pursuing concepts

where we're not executing and producing as much or taking one project through the whole thing. And I was kind of, I was experiencing, just feeling like, I want to make sure that you know that I am sensitive to me pulling my own weight. And your response was, well, I'm not thinking about that because you're thinking about holding yourself accountable to what it is you wanna achieve.

But so we're both good at that. We're both hard on ourselves. Yeah. And we're actually not that hard on each other. I know that I project that sometimes, but it's not actually the case because we drive ourselves so much. Yeah, and we also have been in this relationship

for a very long time and in this business relationship for a very long time and in this business relationship for a very long time so that there's this level of trust where it's not, I'm no longer like, we're not feeling it out anymore to be like, all right, what's he doing with his time? You know, it's like there's not- Right.

Both parties can bring selflessness, self-discipline, good work habits, and the ability to put aside their personal feelings for the sake of the objective good that needs to be done. Both types are used to working so hard that they often succeed garnering admiration from those around them and attaining places of leadership

and responsibility. The one in three combination can be so dazzlingly accomplished, high energy. Dazzlingly accomplished. Dazzlingly accomplished. Dazzlingly accomplished. Dazzlingly accomplished. Dazzlingly accomplished. High energy, extraordinarily competent and impressive, both individually and collectively.

So we really stumbled into something good, man. I mean, it's not like when we were in first grade, we were looking through the class to see who we could team up with to create like a digital studio and aspire to a media empire in the future. I mean, I wasn't like, who can team up with me to make us dazzlingly what? Accomplished.

It's not like I didn't say it three times. But you know, people ask the question a lot of times, now, and first of all, we're gonna get to the bad parts of our relationship and the pitfalls of the three and the one. It would just, it kind of starts with a positive. So we'll stay there for a second. Let's dazzle a little man.

A lot of times, you know, a lot of people are in this business that we're in, right? But a minority of people who are in the creator business sort of take it to the level that we've taken it to. And I'm not patting ourselves on the back. I'm just saying that like, there's plenty of creators who are just like, "'Guys, I don't want a company with 100 people.

That's not what I want. I just want to create. And I think that maybe even sometimes against our own interests, we just- Because we can, we should. Right, we're just like, this could get bigger. This could be more successful. We could make this company bigger.

We could have a bigger idea. We could take this further. And there's very little evaluation of whether or not we should, it's just a given that that's what's gonna happen. And it's been that way since the beginning. And that's why it's continued to grow because it's almost a maniacal and sometimes pathological and self-harming instinct

to just keep pushing. Because neither person in the relationship, now we'll talk about how the threes and the ones balance each other, but neither one in the relationship is really holding you back from continuing to move forward in general. There could be some frustrations, which we'll talk about,

but it isn't like the one is like, I don't wanna move forward. The one is like, I wanna move forward, but in a particular way. And the three is just like, I wanna move forward because when we move forward, it'll be good. We get there. Yeah, right.

I think it's really, yeah. When we move forward, we get there. They both strive after excellence, both as an ideal and as something to personally embody. Sometimes they succeed so well that this pairing virtually glows with self-confidence and the thrill of their own talents. They strive to make each other proud of them.

Someone the other can look up to and show off to his or her friends and family. They enjoy planning and organizing their lives. You know, sometimes I invite you over, I'm like, look at my friend. Right. They enjoy planning and organizing their lives, dividing up responsibilities after seeing

who is objectively better at which tasks. Both thrive on respect and give each other personal space. So this idea, and this is really interesting, it talks a little bit more specifically about this in a second, but the idea, in comparison to you, in so much of my life is in relationship to you and in contrast to you,

I've kind of given off this air of like, I'm not, I don't really, my life is not organized. I'm not a planner, Link's the planner. But again, in the spectrum of organization and efficiency and planning and pragmatism, I'm actually, I would say in the top 10 percentile of organized efficiency, and I know this because I live in a family of,

all the members of my family are on the opposite end of the spectrum. And not, my wife is perfect example, not a planner, not organized, she's a procrastinator. And she will gladly admit that. We both know our way around a spreadsheet. It's just the fact that, well, I might be in the top 10 percentile,

you're in the top one percentile. Do you know what I'm saying? So in contrast, there seems like a big difference, but we're both actually in this almost engineering mindset when we, the way that we approach and the way that we schedule things. And this whole idea about dividing things up, this is something that, especially over the past that we schedule things. And this whole idea about dividing things up, this is something that,

especially over the past like five, six years, we've begun to get very, just because there's so many things going on, we had to do it out of necessity. We have these meetings where we're like evaluating all that's on our plate and it's just like, you take this, I'll take this, you take this, I'll take this.

There are struggles associated with dividing things up, but it's overwritten by, there's like a, it's freeing. There's kind of comfort in knowing, oh yeah, yeah, it's like you can take this, I'll take, and I'll take this kind of a thing. Right. As long as there's enough

and there's things that we can both get excited about that are different, that's especially when it works. Right, which is what you were getting at earlier. Yeah, sometimes it doesn't, it's not that clean. Yeah, there are only two other equally goal-oriented pairings, a one with a one and a three with a three. Now, I think I experienced a one with a one because I think that Stevie's a one with a one and a three with a three. Now I think I experienced a one with a one

because I think that Stevie's a one. I think that Stevie's a three. Really? Yep. I mean, I don't think she's looked into this cause she's not. And you know, okay. So I've always thought that Stevie was a one.

And then when I dove back into reading about a three, I was like, you know what? I think that Stevie's a three. Well, only she can say for sure. Yeah, and again. You shouldn't pigeonhole somebody else. You can't put a number on somebody and that's why it's up to her to,

but it's interesting because, but go ahead, because she definitely has one tendencies and ones and threes can be mistaken for each other a lot of times. Yeah, I think when it comes to like our creative interactions, to me, she feels more like the way that I interact systematically. Like if we're thinking about ideas,

I tend to think of structure first and like I create boxes to then check. It's like, all right, in order for this to be a good idea, it has to meet these criteria. And sometimes we get so bogged down in that that we don't come up with any ideas. Whereas, and maybe that's less of a three one thing and just more of a creative mindset going on,

but like, well, it's things like that that I- She's very systematic. The reason I think that she's a three is because, no offense to ones, ones have a tendency to give superfluous feedback and Stevie never gives superfluous feedback. And also threes tend to have this almost, again, to the detriment of their own health,

commitment to doing, doing, doing, doing, doing. That's Stevie. And also threes have a tendency to do things themselves before they give you the opportunity to do them yourself. I do that and Stevie does. Stevie's gotten better at that because she's so good at so many things. And ones also do that.

Yeah, so it's, but I do think, I mean, when you add her into the mix, you see how it still works because it's within this framework that you and I- And whether she's a one or a three- It still, it works- The three of us together create this, it's like approaching a tornado, I believe, with the three of us. To create this, it's like approaching a tornado, I believe. I could imagine what it would be like

for somebody on the outside, if we were in the middle of a creative process, to be like, I don't know how to step into this tornado. I feel like if I step into it, I might get hit by a piano. Do you know what I'm saying? Because there's an intensity to the process. I would love to know, because then I started to think,

I wonder what Jacob is, like Stevie works so closely with Jacob. I think Jacob is a one. I start to think, you know, it's like, maybe we need to drop everything and everybody needs to go, all- We did StrengthsFinder at one point. A long time ago.

What was the last thing that filled you with wonder that took you away from your desk or your car in traffic? Well, for us, and I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is... Anime! Hi, I'm Nick Friedman. I'm Lee Alec Murray. And I'm Leah President. And welcome to Crunchyroll Presents The Anime Effect.

It's a weekly news show. With the best celebrity guests. And hot takes galore. So join us every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts and watch full video episodes on Crunchyroll or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. Okay, so goal-oriented pairings, the one and the one and the three and three.

Although since these both are same type pairings, they typically have blind spots that these combinations will need to be aware of. Because the one three is a mixed pair, this produces a powerful coalition that is capable of dealing both with ideals and with practical matters. They will try to solve problems in the relationship

by discussing the issues involved since neither likes emotionally charged bickering or unresolved issues. So we can talk about that because this is something that, I mean, again, these are, a lot of these are principles that would be true to any personality combination, but we have had sort of a hypersensitivity

to having the conversation about the conversation, to having the meta conversation about our relationship. And it usually, we're both so busy and so focused in the meta conversation about our relationship. And it usually, we're both so busy and so focused that sometimes more time than needs to pass, passes before we have another one of those conversations. That's a conversation about our relationship. Yeah. But this is something that happens on a very regular basis.

And in the friendships and the business relationships that we have sort of been exposed to, that's the advice we always give is that you gotta have a conversation about the conversation. You gotta talk about your relationship. And my instinct or my observation is that a lot of people have not made the decision to have the conversation

about their relationship and it has not worked out. Yeah, I mean, the thing that strikes me about everything that we've read is that it, I mean, it resonates so much with us in a professional setting and like having these dreams that we wanna accomplish and goals that we're going after. So for like, it's a good combination for people starting a business

or working closely in partnership. Now, I mean, the Enneagram Institute makes a point that, like if you're talking about any type of relationship, you can make any combination work. It's not like, well, you shouldn't be in business with, if you're a certain number, you should only be business with other numbers. No, that's not the case.

It's just, there's certain strengths and certain pitfalls with all the combinations. And also with, you know, relational partnerships. I think it's just huge in marriage, which we'll get to in a second. Right. Exactly. It doesn't mean you can't be in a marriage or a relationship or a business partnership

with another number. It's just, it brings a level of awareness to, and I guarantee you that nine times out of 10, if you were like, I'm a so-and-so and my wife is a so-and-so, I'm a so-and-so, my business partners are so-and-so, and then you read about these and you're like, oh damn, we always go back to these same trouble spots.

And I think for, well, we haven't even started reading the trouble spots, but I do think that we have a tendency to get so focused on the goals that we're headed towards that we could neglect our friendship, the health of it. And that's specifically listed in here. And I feel like we're doing good if we have the conversation about how we converse

and how we relate once a quarter, but then if it goes to only twice a year or once a year, then those conversations, they tend to take a lot longer. They take longer. And then we do get through it because it's the same conversation. You know, it's just, you know, it's just, it's nine months later than the last time we had it.

Right. Ones help threes to be more grounded and realistic. Threes help ones stretch themselves and not be so perfectionistic. They are both industrious and persistent, efficient and concerned with excellence and with making a real difference in the world. I mean, again, this is like,

I feel like somebody is reading the exact, they're reading our mail. Let's talk about the trouble spots though. Yeah. We've congratulated ourselves enough, even for a three. I'm so dazzled. I need to take some of the sheen off. If this relationship gets into trouble,

it is often over time commitments, lack of emotional attachment to each other, and a creeping sense of competition. Now, as you remember very well, we did a whole episode where I was accusing you of being as competitive as me. And I, again, I regret some of the things that I said and the stance that I took in that.

But I do think that, and again, I think that we're learning more about what's going on inside your mind when you do things that externally present themselves as competitive. Yeah. But that whole pulling each other's weight and pulling- Pulling your own weight.

Pulling your own weight and like the- Don't pull my weight. The balance that we have in the things that we do. Yeah. Definitely speaks to this. We both are like, okay, we're doing a meeting where we're talking to everybody in the company? Well, I want 50% of the words, don't you?

You know what I'm saying? And it's like, there's always been this, it's like, okay, I'll take this point, then you take this point, I'll take this point. We just divide everything up in that way. Yeah, and as we talked about in that competition discussion, which by the way, we never knew we were gonna have it, it just happened.

But that was an interesting moment. But yeah, I was just trying to explain that like, okay, if you take the meeting, it's like, yeah, we set up this system where we're gonna divide up how we're gonna present everything to all of our employees. And then that becomes, and to me, the reason is,

it's valuable to present a united front and for them to hear from both of us and kind of know where we're coming from. And then there's certain things that one of us can feel more passionately about or can communicate more concisely or more effectively. So there's a divide and conquer type thing. And then all of it in my mind goes into the definition

of what means the meeting went well when it's over. And I'm analyzing it the second we turn off the camera on the video chat or walk out of the room when we get back into the boardroom. I hesitate to then say, and I think you think this way, because I also think we tend to characterize the other person's motives. It's really hard to do that because our motives are so different

that it's very easy to mischaracterize in a way that seems like, well, for me, that I'm being critical of you. Yeah. And you might try to characterize my motives in a way that seems, again, you would have to say, is it competitive? Is there more of a comparison there? It's like-

I think that, well, we'll get into that in a second when we talk about how threes respond to ones and ones respond to threes. Okay. But I think where my mind is at after a meeting like that is not, and I think where my mind is after a meeting like that is not, and I think this is pretty, you know, enlightening given what you just said is,

you said you're immediately analyzing how the meeting went. And what I am analyzing is what our people think about us as leaders. is what our people think about us as leaders. The meeting is a sort of a conduit for them to perceive us in the right way as leaders, right? Yeah. That's what the three goes to. The three goes to is how did we,

and how did I individually, now it's not just like, how did I, I'm not, I'm mature enough at this point for it not to be, how did I come across versus Link? It's more, how did we come across as leaders? Did we put a picture out there? And again, there's the whole, there's this deception thing, which the three deals with, which is we kind of just pass

right over whether or not we are good leaders and get right into, do people think we're good leaders? Because that's what's really important, right? And again, this is not a conscious process. This is like this intuitive, emotional, sort of under the surface thing that if I really step back and think about where my mind was after a meeting,

I'm like, oh, I was actually hoping that our employees would walk away from this meeting and think, these guys are engaged. These guys care about us and they're giving, they're putting, you know, establishing a great vision for our company and thumbs up to those guys. Good, good, good leaders, good bosses. And all of that resonates with me,

but I go back to the way that I know that we've gotten there is by measuring the process. Right, and I think it's more about- The specifics. I think it's more about the performance, right? And again, the funny thing is, is that when you sit and look at the external execution, it's a pretty similar external result.

You know what I'm saying? We do have, your ultimate goal is not to look good, is to do the things that, and my ultimate goal is not to have a perfect meeting. Our ultimate goal is to lead wisely. Yeah, but my belief, my underlying belief, goal is to lead wisely. Yeah, but my belief, my underlying belief, my orientation in the world is that a big part of effective leadership is them just thinking

that we're good leaders. You know what I'm saying? Like, and I'm not saying that it's true. I think you need to, I'm not actively trying to deceive and trying to lie. It's just, again, I'm being vulnerable about the way the threes work. Okay, so there's two sections here and instead of,

it still take forever if we go through, what I wanna do is I wanna read the way ones tend to think about threes, which would get to this paragraph and then just let you respond and say, this resonates, that doesn't resonate, and then we'll do the same. Okay.

Ones tend to find threes too workaholic, pragmatic, and too concerned with their image and their reputation rather than with principle. Ones can see threes as tending to cut corners in ethical matters, willing to exaggerate or fudge the truth in order to achieve whatever they're after. They can also become critical of threes if they change their goals pragmatically,

dropping efforts or switching positions when something does not work for them. Ones may also have issues with threes attempting to reinterpret ethical questions and with not owning up to their personal behavior, including their behavior regarding fidelity in the relationship itself. All of the middle part about like,

are you deceitful? Are you doing things underhanded? Are you lying to people? Do I question your integrity? It's like, no, no. We're both good boys. Your mom would say, and my Nana would say, y'all are such good boys.

You work so hard, I'm so proud of y'all. That's what Nana says. But I mean, the very beginning, the very first thing and the very last thing resonates. So the very first thing of like, okay, is he doing this for effect? Because, you know, image management. I think that comes up for me.

Yeah, and this is why, when we go back to that conversation about competition, you tend to analyze someone else's behavior according to the way that you're thinking about it. So in other words, like what we talked about before, like if you come to work with a weird pair of pants on and it's like, those pants are short and baggy. Yeah.

And you know, objectively, they don't look good is what I'm thinking, right? Okay. But they are quirky and cool and fashion forward. And so what I interpret is Link is trying to seem fashion forward. So again, because if I were to put those pants on, I would be doing it to seem fashion forward, right?

I would be doing it to maintain an image of like, hey, I'm mixing things up and look at what Rhett's doing now about his appearance in some way. Oh, Rhett grew his hair out. He must be doing that because he wants to be a guy with long hair, right? And that's something I definitely fight against in myself, but then I interpret any choice

that you make in the same way. I think this gets to the thing that I thought was the moment in last week's podcast and maybe it wasn't it. So I'll just throw this out there. The thing that rubbed me the wrong way was, I felt like, typically an Ear Biscuit conversation is more of a conversation,

but because of the way that we set up last week and we were bouncing back and forth and we each had things that we wanna convey, you directed more of the things that you were saying to the audience than to me. And there's two things. One, I recognize that kind of rubbed me the wrong way because I was like,

he seems really caught up in really getting something across. And is that, I don't know, is that related to what you were saying about then how you would be perceived? You know, the thing that I've said for years, like people are like, what's your pet peeve about Rhett? And I say, well, he's a know-it-all. You know, it pricked that pet peeve again because,

and I was thinking, well, maybe there's an image management part of it. Like he's got this thing that he wants to come across in a certain way. And I could be totally wrong. It was just, I was in my own head about it. But I, and I think the bigger thing, and maybe it's because I think that may have been smaller

and maybe I'm even reaching. Okay. Because I get a little nervous kind of putting that on you because none of that may be true. But I know the part about me is that there's this, I took it personally that you didn't wanna talk to me about this. Like there was some, what was the last thing you read?

Because the word wasn't abandonment, but there's definitely an abandonment thing that comes a little bit later. And that's in play for ones and definitely for me. You know, if you look at my childhood and it's like, okay, my dad wasn't there. I got a great relationship with my dad now. I don't like throwing him under the bus,

but you know, it happened. And I think there was a seed of it, you know, I really respond to that of like, if you're asserting yourself or your point of view and I disappear, am I gonna be left behind or am I gonna be in this conversation or relationally really, it feels like a relational abandonment when he's not talking to me anymore, he's talking to them.

It's like, I might as well not even be here. Right, well, okay, so it's crazy how we're about to address these exact same things. But what I'll say is, I mean, first of all, so long as there is a camera on me, I am thinking about the audience for sure, right? And it also, in a negative way, being a three, being a performer who actually has an audience,

who actually has a camera on him all the time, right? There's not a day that passes that you can't go on the internet and see something new that I'm in. So there is this image that exists of me that's been built over a long time, over a decade. And it is, if I was only concerned about my personal health, like if the only motivation in life was personal health, I would stop all this.

I would be like, I would stop all this. I would be like, I need to have no image, I need to have no social media, I need to have absolutely no interaction with an audience at all. I need to go to a monastery, shave my beard, shave my hair and live in a robe with a bunch of other dudes who kind of look exactly like me. Now there's other things in life.

I think what we're doing creatively is awesome. I think that what we're doing as a company and the things that we wanna do in the world are great. And I'm not gonna, and don't worry, I'm not about to stop doing that, but I'm just saying that. So that's a constant thing that I'm thinking about and battling is my demons, right?

But I think another, I think one of the reasons that I tend to, I mean, it differs, but in this context, one of the reasons that I'll talk to the audience is the same reason that when we did our deconstruction stories, I tended to kind of talk about the thought process that I had gone through

and kind of talked about it in a persuasive way, even when I'm trying actively to not be persuasive and to try to bring you onto my team and try to get you to think like me, I tend to just present everything as if I'm trying to convince you of something. Yeah. Threes are the ultimate persuaders, right?

And so we just can't help it, we speak in a persuasive way. Now, when it comes to the Enneagram, there's a practical side to it, which is you already know all this stuff, right? And so I feel like the audience is listening into a conversation about us and they're getting, they've been asking for this conversation about the Enneagram.

You haven't been asking about it because we've been talking about it on our own personally for years. So I think I tend to direct my attention to the audience because it's just like, hey, this is new information for you. But let me read through the ways threes tends to find ones because it's gonna talk about what you just did.

And then I will tell you exactly the thing that I was hinting at earlier, which is kind of related to what you just said. On the other hand, threes tend to find ones too rigid and judgmental in their attitudes and inflexible in various areas. While threes generally value one's organizational ability and ability to get things done,

threes can feel that ones are too narrow-minded and methodical, too perfectionistic and focused on details rather than results. We don't need to get into that. You already know that that's something that we talk about a lot, but threes may have issues with ones about feeling they are being stifled or judged both for their attitudes and for their actions.

So I'll stop here because I think that that was the only issue I had with the last podcast was in my mind, what I had been doing throughout the conversation. And again, I'm not saying I don't fall into the trap of image management and I gladly readily admit that. It's probably never gonna go away. But then I spent some time talking about like

being in the feeling triad and being like, I know y'all don't think I feel anything. I know y'all think I'm insensitive. I'm actually feeling a lot of things and I'm just coming to grips with the fact that I'm feeling all these things. And that was one of the things I spent some time talking about.

And so then at the end of the conversation, you were like, seems like you were pretty concerned about like correcting some misconceptions about you, right? And so the way I felt in that moment was judged, right? I was like, I made a decision to be vulnerable. I made a decision to kind of go a little bit deeper and pull the curtain back in a way that's vulnerable and kind of exposing myself and saying that like, yeah,

I have this inner performer who's constantly trying to put the best foot forward, who's feeling a lot of things, who's figuring these things out, who's going to therapy for these things. And then you kind of took the opportunity to be like, it seems like you're managing your image right now. Right. And so the judgment. And I, yeah, and I think that're managing your image. Managing your image right now. Right. And so the judgment.

And I, yeah, and I think that was my, yeah, so, you know what, I'm sorry for that. Because the one thing that I did think about, because again, on my car ride back, I'm like, you know what, at that point where Rhett was like really getting worked up about how he doesn't feel like he's worthy, like, I wish I would have said, you're worthy. I wish I would have just stated it.

And I felt like, yeah, this is another point where it's, I think I was being critical of, like, we weren't, the episode wasn't going the way that I wanted to go conversationally. It was when things get more presentational, it doesn't, that's not a mode when I feel like I can contribute to making a good product. I can make a good episode.

So I think there's some underlying things there that I was like, I was starting to get frustrated that like, this isn't going well because it's just, we're not listening to each other, we're both just taking turns saying whatever we thought we needed to say about ourselves. And a good ear biscuit is when we connect with each other. And if we don't meet that criteria,

I start to get frustrated. And I was like, he's not listening to me, but I'm also not listening to him. And it's just, you know, this must just totally suck. And then I'm like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna throw something out there that is going to, I think part of it was a dig because I was frustrated. And then part of it was a way to,

at least it was like, I'll throw something juicy out there that he can respond to that'll get us out of our notes. And it was, so it was manipulative. So, you know, I tend, when things don't go right, I tend to, like I said, sink my teeth and my claws into and start to control what's happening in order to right the ship, to fix things.

But I, you know, I'll admit there was, like I was starting to like feel a little hurt. There was like some emotion there. And again, it was like, that's not really, I think everything you said and explaining where you're coming from with how you were presenting information and stuff like that, my growth is, in terms of our relationship,

one of the things is trying to celebrate your strength, even if I'm not an active part of it in that moment. Like if there's moments in a podcast where you can play to the strength of presenting information and being persuasive or taking a risk and being vulnerable, that's actually what you were doing there. But I was in such a head space that by that point,

I wasn't listening enough to appreciate that that's what you were doing. So I was kind of writing you off. All of these things were going on in my head, but it's not, and then it comes across as judgment. So the last thing I'm trying to say right now is I admit that those things were, I was judging the episode to say right now is I admit that those things were,

you know, I was judging the episode and I was also doing the other things I've already said. But you, I understand you weren't doing anything to dig me. Like whenever you look at your notes or you decided to address the audience directly, that like it's nowhere on your radar whenever you look at your notes or you decided to address the audience directly, it's nowhere on your radar that that would hurt my feelings. And I also know it actually shouldn't hurt my feelings. It should be something that I should celebrate because it's at moments where we can lean into our strengths,

we should both do that. Yeah, and to be clear, the only reason I brought it up is because of the way that it's so perfectly speaks. I think you should have, I know, but I think you should have brought it up. Well, you can say that it hurt your feelings. Well, no, it did.

That could also be a reason to bring it up. Well, no, it did. Because as you said, you took a risk, but you're being vulnerable. I just wanna be clear that it wasn't like, I mean, this is a tendency in our relationship and something that we have, you know, comes up from time to time where I'm like,

I kind of feel judged for thinking that or doing that in that way. But it's also something that I'm very aware is a, it's a personality dynamic. So I don't spend a lot of time like letting resentment build up. It was more like, oh, this is actually, as I read through this, I was like,

this is a good opportunity to bring that up as an illustration. I'm not, yeah, of course, what I'm getting through this, I was like, this is a good opportunity to bring that up as an illustration. I'm not, yeah, of course, what I'm getting at is, yes, it hurt my feelings. It didn't hurt my feelings to such a degree that I was like, apart from us doing this second part of the podcast, I would have never said anything about it. I think, I mean, right or wrong,

I would have never said anything about it. I don't know that that's a good thing. So, I mean, you see, so I don't think that redeems anything. No. I actually think, I mean, don't you think growth for you is confronting me about it? Well, yeah, but I guess the point is, is that- Because that's getting in touch with those feelings.

If every single time I felt judged by you, I said that hurts my feelings and brought it up, we would never get anything done. And which is exactly what's like- That's what I'm saying too. Every single time that I feel like something you do, as a side effect of it, that it pricks my insecurities, you know, I shouldn't point that out to you,

even because that's for me to work out, you're not doing anything wrong. But I think if there was a little part of that that got a little tense because maybe I was, maybe I was doing something wrong. Ones tend to search for things to confess so that they can get the criticism out of the way too. So maybe I'm also doing that.

Maybe. But let me, I wanna finish reading this paragraph. Three see one's critiques of them. Well, threes thrive on praise, but stressed ones are unable to give any credit to themselves, much less to anyone else. Three see one's critiques of them as nitpicking and time wasting.

So again, I think one of the things that happens with me is if like you're gonna critique me or something like that. Like what I did in the moment is you said, it seems like you're protecting your image or whatever. And I just owned it and said, yeah, I'm all about image management, which was kind of a joke, but also kind of a confession. Like, yeah, we've been talking about that.

And yes, that is an element of what I've been doing. like yeah, we've been talking about that. And yes, that is an element of what I've been doing. But there's also a part of it that is just a general vulnerability. But that's the crazy internal battle is like, you make a decision to, it's just like I was talking about with meditation. The moment that I begin actually doing meditation

in the right way and focusing on my breath and not being preoccupied with the thought is the moment that I begin observing myself doing that and giving myself a pat on the back and being like, look at you, look at you, all the people who are watching you meditate right now, which is no one, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

So I'm constantly dealing with that on this podcast. Any conversation that I'm in, the moment that I choose to be, oh, perfect example, like, you know, we had Christie's birthday thing at your house and Jesse had the idea, which was very Jesse idea and very too idea, which is let's go around and say things that we like about Christie.

Yeah. Some people are comfortable with that and some people are not. An affirmation circle. I Some people are comfortable with that and some people are not. An affirmation circle. I'm typically not comfortable with that. You would think that as a three, I would be comfortable receiving it, but I'm also not comfortable receiving it in that context, right?

Yeah. Because it feels unwarranted and it doesn't feel like I did anything to receive the praise. It just feels like y'all are gonna just sit here and tell me things you like about me? Yeah, because you're worthy without earning it. Because I didn't do anything. Yeah. Right.

If you wanna talk about how good my paella was or something like that, it's like, okay, I'm okay with that. But you just wanna talk about me, I'm not. So, but I have been in therapy. I have been, you know, I've been trying to address these things. And even before therapy, I was aware of some of these tendencies.

I just couldn't label them and analyze them in the right way. But it was just like, okay, I wanna say something about Christy that means something to Christy, but I also wanna say something about Christy that no one else says about Christy, right? I wanna say something that's unique

and original about Christy. And then in the moment of saying it, it's like there's two things happening. There's like, I am enjoying being able to tell Christy the things that I appreciate about her because that's meaningful to her. She's enjoying this. She's not completely comfortable with it either,

but she is becoming comfortable with it and as we go around the circle and do it. But I'm also thinking, I wonder how that stacked up to what everyone else said. And then of course, when Science Mike went, it was just like, he's on another level of being able to deliver that. He's like in his absolute element.

Oh yeah. He pulls things out in these affirm, if he wants to affirm someone. He gave three analogies. Like there was a sunrise analogy. A tree. A tree analogy. And a wolf analogy? And a wolf. But the crazy thing is-

I mean, in fairness, he did go last, which that was- No, but like- And of course- But he probably could have gone first. And what am I thinking in that moment? I'm like, damn, Mike is so good at this. I'll never be as good as he is at that.

Well, I'm the one that everybody made fun of when it was over. I mean, I think that my wife is hot and fun. I mean, I could go into a lot of other things, and did I think about it the rest of the night? In her defense, you misspoke a little bit, and you were talking about when y'all met, and you said you were hot and fun, is what you said,

and I know that's not what you meant, but that's what everybody- Trust me, I know. That's what everybody latched on to. You know what, Christy never said anything, but I've been- She knows you very well and she knows how to appreciate the things that you bring to the table.

She's so hot and fun now. Two. Okay. But okay, getting into the- Well, the one thing that like the very next sentence is eventually threes start to avoid ones because there's so much nitpicking and criticism and that triggers one's abandonment issues.

Which triggers more anger and criticism. Which is exactly what happened during the podcast. Yes. So you felt like I was abandoning you by talking to the audience and you judged me, it felt abandoned and then you criticized me. And also, but also my definition of a good episode is when we connect and they're just listening in.

And you know, and plus I don't have, I don't work in that mode of talking to the audience. I don't feel like I'm good at presenting information. So it's like, then I'm left out. You are good at acknowledging and taking into account the audience in a lot of- In different- Other mediums.

Like, okay, this is, what is the camera seeing right now? I'm gonna look into this camera. It's like, I'm kind of like, I don't care about looking in that camera. Well, the work that I'm doing on, if we talk about Good Mythical Morning is like, I believe that the show is its best when we are at most ourselves

and connecting with each other and being as honest, having the most honest fun we can have. But ironically, the more, so the more that I assert control, the harder that is to happen. Like when I can just go with the flow is when it starts to work. Yeah. And so that's my work is reminding myself of that.

I mean, just a couple of notes I made about my growth is, the more that I understand myself, it's like not taking those things too seriously, like using humor to lighten up about my tendencies, my perfectionism. So starting to harness those eccentricities for comedy, allows me to acknowledge that it's a bit ridiculous and that it's a bit overboard

and that's what makes it funny. And so it disarms it some within myself. And I actually think that you harness, in terms of growth, you harness your tendencies for comedy too when it's like, the whole bullshit artist thing where like, you're really just making something up. And like that might be harnessing, you know,

image management or just being able to present, that whole deceit thing, like it sounds so nasty, but you found a way to turn that into a comedic angle. And that's just something I thought of. I don't know how on the show or in terms of comedy, if you're able to use that as your path for growth. Well, I don't necessarily think it's a path for growth, but I do think that the three's ability,

something I read in one of the books was that threes are the best of any numbers at reading a room and like knowing this is what's required in this space right now. To rise to the top. To rise to the top, right? So one of the things that ends up happening is just like, I feel like I could hang out with anybody,

any group of people and kind of assimilate, right? So there's one thing about sort of assimilating and then sort of figuring out what is the pecking order in this group? And again, this is a subconscious thing. This isn't something that I don't manipulate, to have this like manipulative strategic mindset. It's just, you find yourself just, oh, that's what happened.

I saw when I got into that group. So I think in comedy, just the ability to know the mode that we're in. And again, like I have to commit to it, but if like, oh, I'm gonna commit to being this guy that doesn't believe that Finland exists, I can go all the way, right? And you might actually at the end think,

maybe Finland doesn't exist. A couple of other things in terms of my growth in oneness, you know, they talk about a one can move to two, every number can move to two different numbers in growth. So a one can move forward. Well, growth and stress. One is good and one is bad. Oh, okay.

One is an integration and one is disintegration. Okay, so I can move forward to a four. And for me, that's pursuing artistic expression without evaluation. Right. You know, so, I mean, we pursue so much artistic expression, but I evaluate all of it.

So it's actually saying, well, I'm just gonna sit over here and I'm gonna doodle just for the hell of it. And bad example, but looking for those things. And then talking about a one moving back to a seven, there is a positive spin on that to be growth, which is to reclaim a playful and spontaneous impulse of childhood, which again, I think that's kind of the best vibe

of Good Mythical Morning when I'm able to do that, to give myself freedom to say, the best thing I can do here is to not control and not analyze and think about, is everything in the right place on the desk? Is everything, is this moving at a fast enough pace or is this episode gonna be too long? When I start trying to be a producer,

I'm doing other people's jobs and I'm no longer doing the job that only I can do, which is be like unhinged me in the moment, listening to you as much as I can too. And I think everyone will agree that that's the, from an entertainment standpoint, that's the link that we all want. Yeah, yeah.

And so I know that my tendency is to not do that. So it's like, whether it's in GMM or in my entire life, just working hard to relax more, you know, make room for pleasure. Don't fix things that don't need fixing. And as we've talked about on other podcasts, treat myself with the same kindness and respect that I show to others and have this question in my mind of,

do I wanna be right or do I want to be right? Or do I want to be happy? And, or even if I want to make a really good product, that means letting go. It's great that we have a team and we've set up an environment where I can actually, like if I'm the healthier I am, the better it is. Yeah. And that's what's so tricky as we talk about the growth

and the stress for a three. So for you, your growth, for whatever reason, directly feeds into you being, you know, more fun, more spontaneous. Spontaneous., more spontaneous. Yes, spontaneous. Spontaneous and you become a better performer. But my problem is being a performer, right?

So that's why many entertainers are threes. Lots of actors are threes because they know how to get into a situation and assume an identity, right? They're masters at it. And so they actually are rewarded in entertainment by detaching from their authentic self and becoming something that somebody else wants them to be.

So that's the irony in what we do as entertainers is that I could actually be really good at our job and be very unhealthy because on the opposite end of the spectrum, so the disintegration, sort of the stress arrow for a three is to go to nine, we become disengaged and apathetic, which is like an unhealthy nine. And this doesn't happen many times in my life,

but there are times when I feel so overwhelmed, so stressed out, and there's a common thing with threes is they've worked so hard that they become physically ill. Right, that's why I went to therapy because of what was happening with my eye and my back and all that stuff. Yeah. But in integration and growth,

threes become more cooperative and committed to others like healthy sixes. So again, threes tend to be just ruthlessly independent and not have time for people. We don't have time for relationships. We don't have time for people. And this can be of great detriment to friendships and marriages, right? My wife-

Because those are people, yeah. We're not, it looks like we're not gonna necessarily have time to talk about the threes and how the three interacts with the twos, but I mean, basic- You can give them a little, we can give them a little bit of. Okay, so twos-

I mean, I cut the other one short because of the dentist. Two is what my wife is. So twos fundamentally feel that threes put work and career before them, their children and home life, primarily, primary values for twos. They feel that threes are too focused on success and that they are missing the really valuable things in life.

Threes on the other hand can feel stifled by the twos insistence on the need to spend time together. Threes feel twos are smothering and emotionally manipulative, making them feel guilty for working hard and making the most of themselves. Now this is a generalization of course, but this is the thing that Jessie and I end up fighting about, right?

Because again, I go on vacation and I'm not present. It takes me three days before I can be present on a vacation and even then, if you give me a little bit of time alone, I'm gonna be writing something. I'm gonna be coming up with an idea. I can't, it's just, and I've talked to my therapist about this and he's like, well, first of all, you don't need to judge yourself

for going into creative mode. Cause you are also a naturally creative person and that's something that brings you joy and you're learning how to become even a better, more efficient channel at kind of receiving ideas and bringing them into the world. But you have to know when to turn that off and when to turn that on.

And if it's specifically happening to the detriment of you being present with your wife and being present with your family, then it's a problem. You need to turn off and focus on them. Because ultimately, like I said last time, last time for me, it's I'm do, do, do, do, do, and I need to be, be, be, I need to be present. And specifically, and it's kind of ironic

since I talked about this being the reason that I grew my hair out and what I was trying to do in therapy, and that was before I even really understood how important this was to a three. But this is from the wisdom of the Enneagram. The goal of a three is to connect with the heart. When they are able to reconnect with their hearts, healthy threes model the essential gift of authenticity

like no other type. Their behavior becomes genuine, not trying to be more or less than they really are. They become simple and available, revealing their true selves with honesty and humility. Again, this whole idea of not being concerned with what you think and what the image is, not over identifying with the image

that I am projecting into the world and just be like, who actually am I? You know, a lot of times we don't even know what we want because we've made a game of our entire lives of figuring out what you want and figuring out a way to bring it to you. And so I had to be able to stop and be like, I don't have to do anything right now.

I can just be, I could be present and being present in relationship with the people that, you know, that's going back to that sixth thing, being available, doing something for someone, not just doing something for someone because it makes me, like, again, everything that I do, I can make it about me or I can make it about you. I love to cook for people.

I'm discovering that cooking for people brings me joy. When everyone is sitting there eating and they're like, this is great, it brings me joy, but the unhealthy, and there's a healthy service in that. It's like bringing joy to people and creating environments where people can have truly joyful experiences of eating food and having great company.

That's all great, all positive. What I have to resist is that now you think something about me because I made this for you, right? That's the constant battle. But it doesn't mean don't do things for people. In fact, the more I can, in fact, the more you can choose to do things for people where it involves kind of folding in and doing something

that's not about bringing attention where you're not doing something special, where it's just like, hey, I'm just going and building this house with these folks and I've got a hammer and that guy's got a hammer and no one's in charge. I mean, there's another person who's in charge, it's not me. So kind of folding in and being with people,

serving alongside people, those are things that are good for me to kind of get out of that performance mentality. Was there anything else in relating to Jesse? Because I think it's, you kind of hit him maybe. I mean, the one thing that we've always talked about is how Jesse is sort of the personable one in our relationship.

And I kind of a long time ago was like, Jessie's gonna be the one who's gonna like talk to people. And you know, if we have somebody staying with us, like she'll stay up and talk to them. I'll go to bed because somebody is gonna do it. And it's like twos in particular bring a more personal, individual focus to their interactions with others. They are thoughtful and follow up exchanges with genuine kindness and compassion.

Threes bring flexibility, charm, practicality, and goal-oriented vision for ways the couple can improve. Twos like to feel proud of their loved ones and threes want to make their partner proud. I think you have a good, you throw a good party for that reason. Yeah, and the two, three combination That's the, you throw a good party for that reason. Yeah. You know? And the two, three combination is like the most socially,

I don't know what the word was, but basically exactly what you just said. They're gonna be the couple who's gonna throw a party and everyone's gonna have a good time because both the two and the three are both image conscious. And so they're actually thinking about how good is the party that we're gonna throw? And if you've got two people who are committed

to each other in this way, where it's like, we're going to do an awesome party for everybody. And there might be some unhealthy motivation in there, which is because people will think we're great. The benefit to being friends with twos and threes is that, well, there's gonna be a great party. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Right. For me and Christy, she's a six. So ones and sixes both excel at analytical thinking and both worry about things going wrong. Ones tend to feel anxious about making mistakes and sixes tend to feel general anxiety related to many things potentially going wrong in life. So for Christy, she gets worried about the things

that she can't control. And I only worry about the things that I can control. I've got an assignment, I've got a test, I've got this thing I need to do. Planes, Christy hates planes because she has no control and she can visualize a worst case scenario. Even if the movie playing on the plane is not about a plane crash, she's watching it.

Right. But for me, I love plane flights because there's nothing I can do. Right. And I ignore the fact that there's wifi on a plane now. Like I don't even wanna have a wifi. I love the fact that you put me in this shell where it's like for X number of hours, I can't do anything.

I'm just like, I'm not being measured to anything. I'm sitting here and I can read, I can listen, I can't do anything. I'm just like, I'm not being measured to anything. I'm sitting here and I can read, I can listen, I can think. I think so freely on a plane. And then I'll look over at Christy and she's like shaking. This is a great idea for, if not a book, like how each number approaches a flight. There's so much in that because the way a three approaches a flight is I'm like, okay, I'm flying across the country.

I got four and a half hours. What am I gonna write? What am I gonna accomplish? What can I come up with in this four and a half hours? And I'm like, I can finally relax. And if I make the choice to watch the movie and not write, I think that I'm worthless. I feel bad about myself.

And also I don't talk to anybody next to me. Whereas a two, Jessie, she'll start a conversation with somebody and I'm like, oh shit, she's talking to somebody. Yeah, for, I mean, Christy and I both have a strong sense of duty and honor, we like showing up on time, we like following the rules. We both love organization and cleanliness,

having our house in order. A lot of these very practical things about putting our lives together systematically, it gives her a sense of security and it gives me a sense of control that like this is, I can perfect this because I can control it. And so that really plays out really well practically. We don't argue about those things.

Like a lot of those pet peeves at home type stuff, we're almost always on the same page. And you know, I was giving myself a hard time of like, not allowing myself to just fall in love with Christy and that be enough for us to be together. I was so, I had to have all the right answers and be able to defend my decision to propose with data. But I do think I was picking up on our compatibility

as ones and sixes when it comes to a lot of the practicalities, the things that we'll argue about. Now, ones will come to decisions quickly because we're more sure of ourselves and our opinions and sixes tend to be unsure because there's so many things that could go wrong. So there's the indecisiveness. Sixes bring a warmth and more emotional responsiveness

and availability. So there is a bit of that, like what you were describing with you and Jesse, there's some of that with me and Christy too, in terms of like that emotional responsiveness and being able to be warmly connect with people. Yeah. Is something that she really helps me with. But sharing burdens and chores, that's totally equal.

Both are steadfast, loyal, and faithful to each other, wanting to build a solid foundation together. Both can count on the other, and that gives both of us room to relax. But sometimes my criticisms can fuel her six insecurities in our relationship. So there's in the same kind of like our dynamic,

I can kind of push her away with perceived criticism. Right. Even more to myself, but it's- People only hear the way it comes up. No, it's perceived as a threat. So we have to work through that. Well, you talk about the whole like initial sort of attraction compatibility thing.

And again, not to say that any number can be compatible. I mean, like some are gonna be more challenging. If you're both eights, like that's gonna be a challenging relationship. I mean, but there's all kinds of different challenges. Two and a three, so Jesse tells a story. So again, the three is the performer and the two is the helper.

And again, there's better ways to describe that, but that's how it's often described. One of the ways that this sort of works out is the three loves being in the spotlight and the two loves having someone who's in the spotlight that they can put into the spotlight. And Jessie remembers pretty much one of the first times we ever interacted with each other.

You know, we had met like at church one time or whatever, but I ended up inviting her up to the Campus Crusade meeting, which I was emceeing, and I knew I would be emceeing it. And not only that, it was one of those times where we had made a video where it was me going and finding Greg somewhere on campus and like bringing him into the thing.

Yeah. And so there was this video that played and then I like danced down the aisle and then took the microphone and started speaking to everybody. And she tells the story of like, that's very attractive to a two. This guy just came in and performed for a few hundred people

and danced down the aisle and then took the thing and started doing a monologue. And that was the moment that she started to fall in love with me. Good, bad, or indifferent what the reasons are, but she was attracted to that. And then once I saw the way that she responded to me exerting myself in those places, I was like, oh, she likes this specifically.

She's my biggest fan. Exactly, she is a fan of what I'm doing and she appreciates it, right? And again, this could seem very shallow, but there's actually this whole idea of the two. So this is like a lot of political, honestly, a lot of political couples are, the politician is a three and the spouse is a two.

I think Barack and Michelle are this combination. I think Barack and Michelle are this combination. But the... I thought Michelle was a one. Maybe they're not. No, maybe she's a three. But they may both be threes. But this has been a source of strength in our relationship but the thing that has been a source of strife

at the same time is the fact that twos actually also want to be the center of attention, right? And Jessie was a performer. Like she was on stage. She's always been a performer. And so there is a resentment that can build when you get into a relationship and the three continues to sort of exert themselves

and kind of be in the spotlight and the two is doing, loves the fact that they've got somebody who's in the spotlight, somebody they can be proud of and somebody that they can keep pushing into the spotlight. And first of all, as I've said many times, Jessie is a huge reason that I'm doing what I'm doing. She directly encouraged me to pursue this career.

And along the way has kind of directed a lot of the decisions that I've made. And- But she can also tweet. But she wants, but as a two, she wants credit for that. Naturally, she wants credit for that. And so if it gets to a point where I feel, if I start to be like, well, I'm the one who's doing all the cool stuff

and you're supporting me in that, and that's actually the way that I would communicate that, then the relationship begins to disintegrate. We both have to give each other our props, in other words, you know, in a healthy way. And if we don't do that, then these can become very toxic. That's where the two and the three becomes very toxic if they're competing, if they're competing for attention

and they're both unhealthy. Thankfully, we've been aware of this dynamic and have been able to harness it. And Jessie, of course, is also in therapy and dealing with all her own shit too. And so we both are able to have a healthy marriage for 20 years. Michelle Obama is a one by the way.

And Josh Groban is a two. Oh, so this is the Josh Groban, Barack Obama relationship. I can't remember, there's a two, three relationship that is in some book and I can't remember who it is. Okay, we should wrap this up, huh? We did it, we did the Enneagram episode. I've got a wreck. There's, you know, so much of this Enneagram stuff

can be the test and it can be pretty heady. And I wanted to recommend an episode of a podcast called Sleeping At Last. Sleeping At Last is the moniker of, according to his website, Chicago based singer songwriter, producer and composer, Ryan O'Neill. He's friends of friends, but we've never met. And maybe it's better that way.

This dude, he has all these series on his podcast, which again is sleeping at last, but he had a sub series where he wrote a song for each number of the Enneagram. And you can, as you're digging into this, if you want more of an artistic processing, something that's kind of, it's more heart first than kind of head first way to approach it.

The first song he wrote, I mean, it was back in October of 2017. So if you just start sleeping at last and then Enneagram and your number, that the episode will pop up. But the one. What Jenna? Elvis Presley is a three and Priscilla was a two.

Elvis and Priscilla. Elvis and Priscilla, that worked out well. Yeah, so if you start sleeping at last, Enneagram in your number, like for me, one, it'll pop up. And the song that he wrote, I hadn't listened to it in a couple of years. Every time I go back and listen to it, I don't like using the phrase, but I feel so seen.

It taps into the emotionality of your number in a way that even sitting here on the website and just reading the lyrics to myself, I can just feel my throat start to close up like I'm about to burst into tears. Well, I was on the treadmill at the gym with a lot of people and Jesse was like, oh, you gotta listen to the,

he just released the three song. I put the three song on. It's amazing. I was weeping on the treadmill. I'm starting to just tear up right now. Tapping back into it. Not only is it incredible music, but, and I think the three is the best song,

but also everyone who contributes musically on each song is that Enneagram number. He goes through the entire process. It's crazy. And he's- Everybody who sings and plays on a three song is a three. It's such a cool process. But again, it's like a different way into experiencing,

it's such an empathetic treatment of your number to feel like you're known and accepted for who you are. And it's another way to know, it's another way to begin to discover what you are. If you burst into tears, it's you. You probably will, if you read the lyrics and you understand the lyrics, listen to the song, and it's like, that's me?

You're probably that number. Hashtag Ear Biscuits. Appreciate all the Enneagram conversation that's happening using that hashtag. So let us know how you're responding to this. And you know, I feel good. I'm not gonna analyze this thing because, well, because I already have,

and I feel great about this episode. I feel like at the end of every episode could be linked to, are you cool with this one? And I would have an answer for you. This one's A plus, man. You can make all the comments you want about this. And it redeemed the last one, which I gave a D to, and I shouldn't have.

But I'm gonna resist the urge to go read the comments because I don't wanna find my self-worth in your approval. Oh, snap. We'll talk at you next week.