Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Our Extreme Sports Adventures | Ear Biscuits Ep. 386

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

We are BACK! In this episode of Ear Biscuits, Rhett and Link talk about finally going scuba diving together, as well as the calculated risks of white water rafting and UTV-riding with their old college buddies. GME Tickets now on sale at goodmythicalevening.com! Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/EAR and get on your way to being your best self. Head to factormeals.com/ear50 and use code ear50 to get 50% off! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Your mom hates it when you leave six half-full glasses on your nightstand. It's a good thing mom lives on the other side of the country. And it's an even better thing that you can get six IKEA 365 Plus glasses for just $9.99. So go ahead, you can afford to hoard because IKEA is priced for student life. Shop everything you need for back-to-school at IKEA today. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong friends talk about life for a long time. I'm Link.

And I'm Rhett. This week at the roundtable of dim lighting, we're back! Back! After a break. Uh, yes. The show continues. And Back! After a break. Yes. The show continues. And boy! The podcast continues. We considered... No.

No, we didn't consider it. We didn't consider it. We didn't consider not continuing it. We had some fun while we were away, or you were away from us, and we were away from you. We went away. Two different not so exotic, exotic locales, not exotic in a traditional sense like we went to...

Well, I wouldn't call them exotic. I'm just saying we did some things. We did some dangerous things. We did some dangerous things. And it wasn't until just a second ago that I realized that the theme, And it wasn't until just a second ago that I realized that the theme, I think, the common thread of some of the things that we did over the past few weeks was calculated risk, was danger. Really?

That maybe people might say, why are you guys doing that? Don't do things that you might die doing. Huh. And I haven't even thought about it until right now. That we could have died. There was multiple, multiple... That's a lie. Multiple places that we could have died. I could tell that you were thinking about dying.

We also, we broke the seal on us going scuba diving together. Yes, we nailed. That falls under the category of... That was the least dangerous thing we did, by the way. I think. Really? Yeah, but when you take into account the depth that we went to, I think maybe you're right.

I don't know, though. But one thing I do know is that, boy, we are outdoorsmen. We are outdoorsmen. We really like to go into the great outdoors and just have a great, great time. We met our college friends in Colorado for year two of outdoor adventure, catching up. So let's give them the update on that and the scuba diving.

Which do you want to do first? Let's do scuba diving first. Now, I'm really- Oh, there was one thing that happened that I didn't expect. It was just amazing. Yeah, we're gonna save that. We've got to save that at the right time. Something really unexpected.

It wasn't even scuba diving. Chase went with us. That's what you're talking about? Chase? Chase is our guide. So, you've been scuba diving with Chase before. Mm-hmm. This is my first time scuba diving with you.

I never leave home without himuba diving with Chase before. This is my first time scuba diving with you. I never leave home without him. And with Chase. And Chase brought his camera set up. Now, let me also say, I brought my camera set up and aborted. I aborted really early on filming anything because of reasons that I'll get into. And also, Chase was there. So I talked with Chase at the end of last week as I was heading out. You were right behind me and I stopped

and he stuck his head in my window. We had a little exchange. I'm gonna fill you in on that exchange. Yeah, I was like, hey, I'm trying to leave here. That exchange was him saying, hey, do you want me to give you all the footage that I took from the dive? And I was like, no, because that would require me doing something with like

looking through it. And I said, Chase, this is what would be really helpful. If you would take like, you know, half a minute of some compelling footage that just is evidence that the three of us went on a dive together. 30 seconds. evidence that the three of us went on a dive together. 30 seconds. That then, while people are watching Ear Biscuits on YouTube,

they can see it. At whatever point Jamie says, this is the point when I will show the footage. I know how this show is made. So anyway, that's what Chase promised me. And if he doesn't deliver, it's the end. I'm going to kill him. end i'm gonna kill him i'm gonna kill him no i i i think it'll just be me and him going scuba diving again we took a boat out to um sure did anacapa and then we went from anacapa over to santa cruz island am i right about those

if you don't if you didn't know, there's something called the Channel Islands. I think it's a national park. It is. So there's a string of islands, maybe seven or so off the coast. You probably heard of Catalina. Yeah, off the coast of California. That's one of them.

And at least two of these islands have been featured as background images for different OS release Mac OS releases right because there was a Catalina definitely and I didn't know there was another one I'm pretty sure that in some other maybe just a background on Mac there was a Santa Cruz Island picture okay or something anyway, crazy. First of all, you know, I love islands, crazy history on these islands and obviously some tragic history of like the people who lived out there. Um, there's like 5,000 people who lived on the islands where the Spaniards showed up and then they took them off the island and made them build churches and,

you know, ravage the population the population uh there's nobody out there anymore except there's people who live on catalina and there's some people i don't know which one was the one on the left and which one was the one on the right as we were leaving the one with the arch and then you got a good view of like kappa is north of santa cruz okay so santa cruz is the one that has like some houses on it. There's some people, maybe researchers or something living out there, but we're talking like desolate, rocky islands

with just cliffs, essentially. Yeah. Like an hour or so boat ride to get to from Ventura is where we left from. And we don't go on the island. You just kind of, the captain stops the boat and gives us this orientation,

and then, yeah, for the first time ever, we're scuba diving together. There was a point when we got in there, it was me, you, Chase, Shepard. Lincoln was supposed to come, but then he got sick, and it was just like a head cold, but you can't go scuba diving with congestion. I mean, I didn't have any congestion. I didn't. Because you can't equalize. I didn't equalize properly.

And I still had like a burst sinus. Not this most recent time. When I got my certification. So I was sad that Lincoln couldn't make it, especially with what happened. And he was pretty bummed out. But yeah, we're going down there. We're going. We're swimming around.

And there was a certain point. I kind of forgotten that we had not done this together. We've done so many things together that it wasn't top of mind. And then when I was underwater doing my thing. You saw how good I was at it, and you were like, oh, I've never done this with him before. No, I just turned around. I was like, I'm going to look at my buddy Rhett scuba diving for the first time,

and I'm going to take full credit for this. And you're like, he's so big. Well, I just took a little joy from seeing you having some fun. And you know what? And your son. You deserve the credit for taking the initiative. I enjoy it so much. And I didn't build it up too much.

So that you could then have your own expectations exceeded. And now look at us, man. And listen, and think about Shepard. I mean, we'll talk about how Shepard did that day, but right now Shepard is in Florida at a camp where he's like scuba diving. You know, it's like, you know, this could be. He's going to come back more certified than either one of us, officially. I think so. I got a report today that he's had a on and off migraine for a couple of days. Oh, no. That prevented him from going in the water yesterday.

So I don't know if further certification is in jeopardy. But he's having a great time. Conditions have to be perfect. I mean, it was beautiful. We were scuba diving around. We were in the kelp forest. It's relaxing. Well, it is relaxing, but I was dealing with, let me tell relaxing But I was dealing with

Let me tell you what I was dealing with First of all My son was there Which When your 14 year old son Is your dive buddy Because You're not my dive buddy

You're my best friend You're not my dive buddy Chase was your dive buddy He's my dive buddy And that's not like something That you like do a blood oath about That can change at any moment It can change dive to dive But when my son is there That's He's my dive buddy. And that's not like something that you do a blood oath about. That can change at any moment. It can change dive to dive.

But when my son is there, he's my dive buddy. And I'm thinking about his safety the whole time. I'm being a dad, you know? And I'm dealing with my own situation with a new wetsuit that's kind of choking me right here. I'm also- Totally fine. Trying to-

To be choked while scuba diving. Trying not to get sick, because I get seasick, and I had taken a Dramamine as we go out there, and I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to be okay. Like, no issue going out. But then, like, as you're sitting there in this boat that's stationary, now that you've stopped, And they're telling you to The thing I didn't anticipate

You know When you see somebody like scuba diving I actually noticed this I watched a commercial and it was There was some guy in like a tank With something Some animal, I can't remember the details And I remember every single time I've ever seen somebody scuba diving on television in like a tank with something, some animal, I can't remember the details.

And I remember every single time I've ever seen somebody scuba diving on television, you just think like, oh, they're just swimming around in the ocean. And it isn't until you do something that you realize, oh, there was a lot of time that it took to just to get that stuff on, to get your thing, to get this thing strapped, it's a lot heavier than you anticipate.

Yeah, it's like an Instagram versus reality post. Yeah, and it takes 20, 30 minutes or so, it feels like, to get all this stuff on and secure. And as you're in this boat that's kind of doing this side thing, and you're prone to seasickness, and you feel like you're getting choked, and you're dealing with your son who's having a hard time getting all his stuff on. Yeah, you seem stressed out, and you get hot when you're trying to get all this stuff on. And you're trying to remember everything, because if you forget something, and then you're in the water,

and you didn't turn your air on or something. That's going to be a big, big problem. So stress levels can go up, heat levels can go up, and then you're bobbing around and yeah, you start to feel a little nauseous. So I started to get a little queasy, but the other thing that was happening, you know how kids are, like,

you know, Shepard would get to a place where he couldn't get his glove on or he couldn't get his wetsuit, and he just kind of freezes and just waits for you to grab it and it's like you kind of feel like you're doing all the work and he's not like advocating for himself. And so I'm literally saying things like, advocate for yourself! I wasn't even beside you and I heard that. Like there's other people in the boat, dude. I don't know, a lot of other people. Yeah, yeah. They've seen fathers and sons dive together, trust me.

We were on opposite ends of the boat, and all of a sudden I hear, advocate for yourself. I'm like, what? Yeah. You gotta be a... I guess Shepherd's not advocating for himself. The reason I use that term is because that's the term that Hal used when we were training. Yeah. It is important. He was like, Shepherd, you've got to advocate for yourself throughout this

process. Anytime he would come to help him. So it wasn't like I used that kind of language with my son on a regular basis. It was actually nicer than what I usually would say. And way more technical. But so he was having a tough time. And then he was thinking, I'm being choked. Because it's cold. The water's cold.

It's like 60 degrees, which sounds warm, but is very cold for water. And you've got like this vest over the top of it. So there's lots of things, like, bunching up around these McLaughlin necks that are causing trouble. And so, but we get in, we do the dive, and what I notice is that... I'm glad I went first because if I were just listening to this, you're not selling it.

At the end of the dive, because there was so much current, you know, diving in the Caribbean is like going to an amusement park. It's so easy. The water's warm. There's no current. You're not wearing anything. Yeah. But, like, the kelp forest was moving with us, right?

Because as the waves come to come up against the island, they kind of move you at the same rate. But then the background, like the bottom of the ocean, stays stationary. And I looked down and felt this, and it immediately got sick. Like to the point of thinking I was going to vomit in the water. You're underwater at this point, right? Underwater.

Yes. And I, again, from my training, Hal, who did a great job training me, Hollywood divers, he was like, if you have to vomit, Do it. Do it into the regulator. Don't take it out of your mouth. Don't take it out and just vomit through the regulator

and just like out into the water. And I was like, bro, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do that if I have to. And the reason why is because when you're vomiting, you have this. Natural reflex. Natural reflex to then like. And then if you're like doing that without your regulator in. Water goes in the pipes.

Yeah, you're going to be. And then if you're sucking down water, you might be in a panic situation. So we get out and... You did not vomit. Did not vomit. How close do you feel like you got? I mean, I have an issue with vomiting, meaning that it takes so much to actually get me to... even when I want to, when I'm so sick and I'm like,

if I could just vomit, I just can't do it. So I got out of the water, and you get back into this boat that's like the wind is beginning to pick up, and it's just like still feeling choked, dealing with Shepard who's like, I got a headache. Long story short, Shepard had a headache, didn't do the last two dives, and kind of just laid up on top of the boat. He ended up having a good time. It didn't like ruin scuba diving for him. But I was dealing with the queasiness coming and going the whole time.

You took more Dramamine, and it still did well. I took a second one. But every time I got in the water, I felt good. It was always at the end of the dive that would be a little... But the last dive, we did three dives. The last dive was my favorite dive. No sickness at all. Can I say some positive stuff? Not having to think about your son and worry about the safety of your kid. Now that you ditched him, you had an awesome time, right?

I'm just going around. They paired me up with that dude that was from another group. I don't care about that guy. I lost him several times. You're a great buddy. But he also was- He didn't want to be found out. He didn't seem like he really wanted to be a buddy to anybody. But, Rhett, what you need to remember about what you just said was that if you needed help, you didn't have your buddy.

I knew who you and Chase were. Okay, yeah. You were basically with us. And we didn't talk about this. Do you remember this one point where I turned around and looked at you and I took the regulator out of my mouth? And sometimes I'll take the regulator out of my mouth because I might swish ocean water around in my mouth.

Yeah. I'll just like... That wasn't part of my training. I'm trying to get comfortable with the regulator being missing and putting it back in my mouth. Yeah. And keep my stress levels lower. It makes me feel more prepared for something to go wrong.

Like if I do have to hold my breath. You're not supposed to ever hold your breath. You're supposed to keep your regulator in. I took my regulator out. I wasn't about to vomit or anything. I was having a great time. And I turned around and I looked at you. And I took my regulator out of my mouth.

And I put it towards you. I knew that you were of my mouth and I put it towards you. I knew that you were just being foolish. I was just being foolish, but there was this one moment where... Which is not a good thing to do, by the way. I realized how dumb that was when you kinda... I saw that you shuddered a minute and you were like, do you want me to give you my... I have an octopus regulator, a back-up regulator that I can give you so you can bring...

It's like, do you need this? And I was like, nah, I'm fine. Whoop! And I was like, oh yeah, I shouldn't... No horseplay. Horseplay... Well, it's one thing to horseplay, it's one thing to do the thing that you would do if you were having a crisis. As a joke. I'm sorry. This is why you're not my dive buddy. And never will be. But I didn't do it to Chase, though. I did it to you, because you're not my dive buddy. And never will be. But I didn't do it to Chase, though. I did it to you because you're not my dive buddy.

You can do anything with your non-dive buddy. I don't even know why I did it. I was just like, I'm having a good time. Hey, look at me. Here's my regulator. My regulator's out. But yeah, so yeah, thank you for Being there for me I quickly realized

What was going on But We had a great time We I keep wanting to see Something big Sharks included We saw some little sharks

Honestly We saw some little sharks I want to see These big animals Because there's a thrill in it And I think that There's actually a very, very low risk of anything happening to you. It's pretty uncommon for a shark to attack a scuba diver. I'm not basing that on anything I've read.

It's just kind of a feeling. Okay. Yeah, let's go with that. Because this is my theory, and tell me if I'm right or wrong about this. You're right. I think you're more likely to be attacked by a shark while swimming or surfing, because you're kind of on the surface and you're thrashing and you more resemble maybe a wounded animal. But when you're down, and still highly unlikely in those scenarios,

but when you are down in the water, and you've got these bubbles coming up, and you're big, and there's this tank. Like, a shark can figure out, like, this is not what I usually eat, and so I'm not going to eat it. Now, if you're, like, holding a fish, and you're, like, chumming up the water or whatever, all bets are off. But that's my theory. That's why I don't have any fear about sharks in the water. Yeah, I don't find myself being afraid of anything except

I'm not afraid of the animals I'm afraid what am I afraid of I had to over I talked about overcoming my fears of like just being underwater

and cause I don't like holding my breath but you don't hold your breath so like clearing equalizing now that I've had like holding my breath, but you don't hold your breath. So like clearing, equalizing. Now that I've had like a sinus injury, I have a little bit of fear about that.

And I think I have a fear of the unknown, of like something going wrong and I still, I'm not going to keep my wits about me. The abyss? No, of just problem solving and keeping cool. I think I would be, the situation I haven't encountered yet that I think might make me nervous is, like you can dive under an oil platform, right?

And oil platforms go very deep, like way deeper than you can scuba dive. Okay. But there's no bottom to it, right? Every place I've dove, dived. Yeah. Which one is it? Yeah.

Both. This seems like something we should know. Dove? Dove. Dived? Scuba dove. See, that sounds horrible. Scuba dove? What'd you do today? A scuba dove?

No, you scuba dived. Well, what? Once you dive, you've dove. It says both are acceptable. Both are acceptable, see? But dove is more frequently used in the United States and Canada, whereas dive is more common outside of North America. Yeah, but in the context of scuba dive, it's probably scuba dived.

I know, but that's, you know, the full summary. So, and Chase wants to do an oil platform dive because there's lots of crazy... I want to do it all. In fact, I was watching Instagram, TikTok, something, I don't know, and the guy was like, you know, there's people who live and work on oil platforms

and they make TikTok accounts, of course, because it's an interesting lifestyle. What else are they going to do? And they said, this is... I saw one that was like, this is what happens when you throw a piece of bread or something off of an oil platform. And he threw it off, and immediately, hundreds of little fish went up to it and started eating it.

And then within five seconds, a big shark came and ate a bunch of the fish. And so it was kind of like, this is what's happening under oil platform because stuff falls off of it, stuff grows on the platform, there's a lot of interesting fish. It's a little ecosystem. But there's no bottom to it. The bottom is a mild eat. So you're afraid of the abyss. Well, because you've got weights on you. Now, I haven't had any trouble with regulating my buoyancy

to the point where I would be really nervous about that. And also, I know where to grab to pull the weights off so you go back to the surface. But I think that just looking down and seeing the abyss, which I've never seen, I suspect that that's going to be unsettling. Like, if I go down there, it's lights out, man.

Literally. Let's find out. I mean, let's not talk about the submersible. I don't want to bring that into this. What are you talking about? I don't even know what you're talking about. Good. Jenna, have we sold scuba diving to you?

I mean, are you open to this? You're a bit of a risk taker. I am. I am open to scuba diving. Even after the way Rhett talks about it. Yeah. He's such a Debbie Downer, isn't he? I'm having the time of my life. And you wouldn't know it.

But what I'll tell you, what I did not have the time of my life doing is being on the boat. But before that return trip, something highly unusual that I don't think we have an appreciation for. highly unusual that I don't think we have an appreciation for because this is actually my... Norm. ...first ever trip scuba diving that required boating to any place. And something happened to us that Hal said has only happened to him once in 30 years of scuba diving. We saw a shark wiener.

Well, technically you would see two because they have two penises, but no, that's not what we saw. They were given an alert that there was a sighting and so then they said, we're going to take a little detour before we do our third dive and we're going to go over here. And when we got over to the spot, which was more in the middle of the ocean, not close to any of the islands, there was another boat there with, like, a lot of people spectating on it. And then we saw, I'll let you say it, orcas. A freaking pod of killer whales. We saw just a bunch of killer whales!

And me and Shepard, they were like, you want to go around to the front of the boat? Me and, you're on the top, but Shepard and I walked around to the front to like the bow of the boat. And we're looking over, and we're seeing, they're like surfacing, and it's like, oh, here's two little Shamu and then a baby. Well, don't say Shamu. Not Shamu. These are very much not Shamu. I wish it was. These are free, wild, no bending of the dorsal fin, foot fin, fully erect dorsal fin.

And we see them and the boat positions itself such that these two killer whales go right in front of the boat. And I'm looking. I'm seven feet above these killer whales, like, going right in front of the boat. It was a thrill. And then I looked out there, and there were some other ones out there that were absolutely huge. They're so big. that were absolutely huge. They're so big.

And people were scrambling to take pictures and video, and we don't have any of that to show for it. Yeah. Because I didn't want to miss any of it, and I knew that I wasn't going to get anything worth a crap. You know what killer whales look like? You can watch videos of them. You don't need to see ours. It was pretty magical.

This is kinda... And they were, the two in the front were absolutely gargantuan. I haven't really let this sink in, but you realize this is the exact same spot. That you saw the blue whale. That I saw like three blue whales last time. In my only ever whale watching.

I've got whale luck. You're the whale boy. I've got whale luck. I've got whale luck. Yeah, you're the whale boy. And that's why, I mean, I've been talking about, I've got two ideas for my next tattoo, and one of them is a big whale skeleton. A whale boy. But maybe I'll do both of them.

But, yeah, I saw blue whales, which was highly unusual. There's only like 15,000 of these things in the world. And then seeing orcas in California is pretty rare according to these folks who go out to this area. And there was this added tension because if you've been following the news, you know that the orcas in, I think maybe it's the Straits of Gibraltar?

Somewhere over there on the other side of the world. They've been organizing and attacking boats and taking the rudders off of boats. Not seeming like they want to kill the people on it, but seeming like they want to dismantle the boats. Just immobilize the boat. And it's become, and I don't know a whole lot about it, but based on secondhand information from my wife explaining a Twitter thread to me, just to contextualize how wrong this could be.

Apparently there was one female orca that had a run-in with a boat, like something that damaged her. And she has a personal vendetta against boats. And she is spreading the word about how we got to dismantle these boats. And that's what's happening. And if you think that that's impossible, if you think that orcas cannot send that technical of

a message to one another you are highly likely wrong i think that what we're going to find out about according to third-hand information i think what we're going to find out about whales is going to blow your mind in terms of how smart they actually are and the level of communication they have people are working to to figure that out right now but our boat didn't have a rudder. No, and so when we were, there was this like, is this thing going to try to take us out? Because the boat's not very big. But that was when the captain said,

our boat doesn't have a rudder, it's got a motor. And so we felt like we might be okay. That was a thrill. That was the thing we were building up to. I'll tell you another thrill that we need to build up. Good Mythical Evening is happening again. We just want to throw a little plug in here. What's the date of this bad boy?

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get your tickets at goodmythicoleevening.com. We're doing things a little bit different this year. You have a big, big part, because it's Good Mythical Evening, pain versus pleasure, or pain or pleasure, and you're gonna be able to vote live in a number of ways that determine whether or not we or one of us or both of us experiences pain or pleasure at different points throughout the evening uh so it's all going to be on you

the level of entertainment has nothing to do with us it's all to do with you and it's you know it's still from the GMM set, but entirely new, not safe for work segments. One right after another, just mounted on top of each other, if you know what I mean. And did I mention that we're still going to be drunk? Yep. We're going to be quite inebriated and subject to your whims. So there's different types of tickets. The T-shirt is awesome. Kind of like a sort of little theme around choose your own adventure.

A couple of different ticket packages. And also, for the first time ever, we're doing a little partnership with Alamo Draft House, like our favorite music, favorite movie theater, you know, where you go and you can like eat and watch a movie at the same time. And we just love the vibe there. And you can drink there. Yeah, so-

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Are you riding a unicorn? Are you back in high school? No? Then, oh yeah, this Reese's Extreme Blizzard is real. Hurry into DQ today. DQ. Happy tastes good. Uh, to wrap up the scuba trip, the scuba that we scuba dove. No, we already did. No, we didn't because you've got photo evidence that I've seen

that's pretty funny of my trip back. Yeah, that's right. Once we started going back. You just did not look good. Once we started going back, I don't think we can communicate just how unexpectedly and suddenly rough the trip was. When we started to take off, it was like, boom. And you were in the freaking bathroom at the time.

I was trying to change clothes. I was having trouble staying in the boat. Here I am naked trying to pee in a toilet because I had a new wetsuit. I didn't pee in it. Well, you had a semi-dry suit, so it's a little bit different than peeing in a toilet Because I had a new wetsuit I didn't pee in it Well you had a semi-dry suit So it's a little bit different than peeing in a wetsuit Exactly Yeah it was tough to not vomit

I gave my yellow offerings to Poseidon When I came up And got up top Yeah you were quiet I peed like six times You were staring off into the distance, and you didn't look good. So I took a little picture. Well, it's an hour trip back, and it didn't let up at all.

And here's the thing. It wasn't like I've had miserable seasickness before, like when I got in the paper for catching that 55-pound amberjack when I was like in ninth grade, And I did throw up that day. It wasn't that. I knew I wasn't going to vomit. But I was like, I'm going to be uncomfortable until we get back, and I'm just going to have to sort of sit here and take it.

Yeah. And so I did that. I just sat there and took it. And you took a pretty good picture. I didn't. I mean, it seemed like it was like, like, I thought you had like done some post work on that picture based on the picture.

I was like, that's a good looking picture. I mean, I hope showing it now is delivered. I didn't think anything of it. It's just like, I just snapped. It's a cool picture. Oh, I just snapped a shot. I mean, I look like an idiot. I just wanted to make sure that I remembered that moment, if none other.

You know, forget the killer whales. I want to get a shot of this giant being miserable on a boat. Yeah. It's funny because I don't get car sick. You get car sick, but you don't get seasick. I get seasick. I don't get car sick. What's the deal with that?

Well, you're just giving yourself permission you shouldn't do that you think i'm giving myself so are you giving yourself permission to get car sick yeah because that allows me to like sit in the front seat be like you know i'm the one i get car sick can i sit in the front but is there something physiological happening that i don't i don't Well, it's certainly a different motion. Motion in the ocean? Yeah. It's different from the motion on the road-tion. Let's skip to the river, though,

because I want to get to this. Okay. Highly recommend scuba diving. You may remember that last year we went whitewater rafting with our college buddies who we had reconnected with really through our spiritual deconstruction episodes we started reconnecting pandemic hit right on the heels

of that so like we we um we just really reconnected over the course of pandemic we put put that into physical action of being on a trip together. That was a weird sentence. And now it's year two. We're getting some college buddy momentum. Yeah. I mean, and we decided on the first trip, we're going to do this again. We need to learn from, you know, our whitewater rafting was kind of boring. And I was like, we're going to do something better this time. So like nine months in advance, we started planning.

And I started looking at what's something that's a more exciting thing. And we settled on doing whitewater rafting again because the first time it was just lackluster. We wanted to make it more intense, and we wanted to move it up a little bit in the year because we learned that most of the whitewater rafting that happens in Colorado is due to the snow melt. So if you wait till July, mid-July, which we did last time,

you're going to get like little piddling stuff. Also, this year, crazy snowpack, right? So there's just so much snow in the Rockies. So there was lots of talk about how intense this was going to be. And this is something that once I saw that you were very, like, you were just like, I had nothing to do with it. I'm gonna figure this out. You were like totally committed to being like, we're gonna figure out where we're

gonna go, and which one we're gonna do. And this is not gonna be boring. And I was like, okay, yeah, I'm totally down. We didn't plan enough stuff the first time. We were like, well, you know, we ended up just riding scooters around downtown. It was lame. Well, we did some good stuff. I disagree with your assessment.

I know. You did complain about, we were having a great day that one day on those bikes. And everyone was talking about how fun of a time they were having and how beautiful this town of Golden, Colorado was. And you just kept talking about all the things you didn't like about what was happening. Well, that's because I learned it from you and how you talk about scuba diving. Oh, come on.

In the moment, I don't say a damn thing. I only talk about it on a podcast. I was shit-talking the scootering, not the e-biking. Okay. So I'm like Googling the most exciting whitewater rafting. And then, yeah, I might have put it in the term extreme.

And I might have put it in the term like class fives and class fours. I don't want no class threes or class twos anymore. And we have done class fives before. Maybe 20 years ago in the upper Gauley in West Virginia. So we felt prepared. You know, we can do this. And Greg was with us then. But once you got the trip set up,

where my anxiety began to brew a little bit, and I typically don't get, I don't get scared about doing things. I get sort of properly concerned, but I'm not like scared. I'm just kind of like, is this dumb? And when I asked that question, it was because I've been whitewater rafting quite a bit, but never have they asked us to show up a

day early to do a test. I mean, I've been on the upper galley. They didn't ask us to do a swim test. And they were like, you got to come the before, we're gonna put you in the boat, we're gonna do a swim test, we're gonna take you down a rapid, it's planned for two hours. What? Meaning you're gonna... Pre-raft. Intentionally jump out of the raft and then swim. And they wanted to verify that you can swim,

that you can pull each other back into the boat, because obviously if you fall out, you want to get back into the boat. So it's an assessment so they can say, you guys are not ready. This was in Durango, Colorado, in the Animas River. The upper Animas. And the upper Animas, it was just like, there was a trip that was class fives and class fours and i was like yes this is what we're going to do and and then it was you do a day of rafting and then you camp on the side of the river and then you get up the next morning and you keep going on class fours and class threes the rest of the way. And I was like, yes, we may be swinging the pendulum too far the other direction,

but we're not going to be saying that we didn't get a thrill out of this trip. And I felt good about that. Everybody else had a lot of questions, especially when they started scheduling the swim test, like you said. And everybody was a little bit, I don't know. I didn't want to camp. I mean, just to be honest. I've got a bad back that I actually keep pretty ready for anything.

But what can happen is if I have a bad night's sleep, I can wake up and it can feel really bad. And the idea of camping in a tent and then getting up and going on this river after having been on the river. Yeah. I was a little bit like, am I going to be, what is it called when they bring a helicopter to get you? Airlifted. Yeah. I'm going to be airlifted because of a lower back injury. Well, because the terrain was such that we went to a train station, and we loaded the deflated rafts and everything.

Well, we had guides who did all of this, and we just watched, and we're like, yeah, go for it. They definitely did. And then we get on this train, and we ride up this train track into the wilderness, into the middle of nowhere. There's no accessibility except for the train track. There's no roads. There's nothing.

So you're exactly right. You would have to be train pulled out or airlifted out. If it's beyond the train track, which a good part of it was, I think, it would have been a chopper situation. So I think that's why they want to make sure, hey, if we're taking these chumps out into the wilderness, we've got to make sure that they can get us back down this river. So we were, you know, every time we would talk about it in the thread, I felt like I would have to say, now, people would raise concerns,

and I'd be like, but we're, now we're not backing out, we're still doing it. Everybody was still on board. We're still doing it. But we were, I was watching the flow rate of the river, because in doing a little bit of reading, I was like, wow, when this river flows above this certain number, it can be dangerous. People have died.

And it was flowing at that rate, and it was going a little bit above it and a little bit below it in the weeks leading up. And so I was just like, I'm still going to do this. I'm not going to back out. And I don't think anybody in our group is going to pull the cord. Yeah. And nobody did.

But there was mounting concern about the conditions and also the camping situation. Yeah. And nobody did. But there was mounting concern about the conditions and also the camping situation. Yeah. I was mostly concerned about two days, you know, and overnight. Yeah. But I wasn't backing out either because I was talking big. And then— Balls to the wall. Four days or so before we leave, we get the news that our trip has been canceled completely.

The rafting part. The rafting company has canceled our trip. And the tragic reality is that a guide died on the river. So, you know, our hearts go out to the family and all the people, you know. And then we were like, okay, so now what do we do? Well, there's one other company in town. We'll rebook with them. But we're like, all right, let's slow our, this is a good opportunity to assess.

Maybe we should take a beat and think about this. So we went with, we were mild to wild. We appreciate the responsibility they took in saying, you know what, it's best if we cancel this trip. So we took a beat and we said, all right, we're gonna call up Mountain Waters Rafting and take their suggestion, which like, there's a trip that is the lower half of the upper animus. So the part that... Just a one day, no overnight. Right after the camping

would have happened. And one class four to start. So yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. So we booked that and I feel like that was a great choice. Perfect. Because we had an Airbnb. Why not stay in that instead of, like, camp on the ground and do two full days of this thing?

So we get out there. Mountain Waters, shout out to you guys. You did an awesome job. We had an amazing time. But we get out there, and, of course, we had done the swim test with them still for the lower half of the upper animus the day before. And boy, that water is cold! And that water was not half as cold as it was up there when we started.

He said it was 38 degrees. Yeah, he said every single drop of water that we will be rafting in today was snow yesterday. Yeah. And we were wearing wetsuits, but... We were wearing wetsuits with, like, another jacket over it. 38 degrees, like, it's so bracingly cold. You don't really want to fall in.

And... And when it just splashes up and, like, one drop hits your face, it's... Yeah. And more than one drop hits your face, it's... Yeah. And more than one drop hits your face. Like every... It was so intense, so consistently intense, and whitewater the whole way because the thing dropped so much. Yeah.

That you are getting wet the entire time. You don't have a lot of time to think about how cold you are, though. No, because from the moment we put in, the moment we got out, like you said, just constant waves of white water. No reprieve. Yeah.

And I was in the front of the boat with Greg and two other people and then you, Tim, and Harm were in another boat

because they had to split us up. And so I enjoyed watching you guys go down and like, I mean, it was like riding a buck in Bronco. Yeah. I mean, and there would be these huge like waves

that would just be churning. And we would just nose first, boom, into these things, just hitting walls of river waves that just splash you in the face and try to knock you out of the boat. And it was relentless and absolutely amazing and scenic, too, because it's complete wilderness. You don't see anybody driving a car in a road by you. You might see the train go by. I don't remember even seeing the train going by.

It might have, but we ain't gonna stop and look at a train. I'm looking at this white water. We're on the train. It was exactly the level that I was hoping for. And I didn't ever feel like my life was in danger. The only thing I felt, because the very first rapid was the class four, was the most intense. Yeah, talk about a start.

first rapid was the class four was the most intense yeah talk about a start um the very first time we went up on this wave and then came down and the boat kind of like slaps down and you kind of collapse that's when i start thinking how am i going to do this without hurting my back right because you're you're supposed to tell them if you've got back problems i never do you know what are they gonna when it comes to roller coasters, whitewater rafting, et cetera, I don't have back problems. Okay. When it comes to my actual reality, I do. When it comes to this podcast, you certainly do.

But I don't want to be limited from it. Oh, come on. Roll your eyes, dude. You know how much I would hear about it if you had the back issues that I have? It was my shoulders, you know. Oh, yeah, your shoulder. Okay, so every time we would go like this, it would be like a little twinge. Compression.

And I would be like, okay, I've got to figure. That was the only thing I was thinking. I was like, I don't want to get hurt and be compromised for the rest of this day. Yeah. And not be able to like paddle, right? But once we got through that and I was like, okay, I think I'm going to be okay. I had a blast the rest of the time. I wish I could go back to the class four knowing that I was going to be okay and I would have enjoyed it a little bit more.

I had a point like halfway, a little over halfway in the trip where I was a little disappointed in myself because we're going through these rapids and then it's, because it's constant, I just found myself thinking like, what are we going to do for dinner? What are we, you know, it's like, what are we going to do after dinner? Well, it's hard to not want something that's really fun

but a little bit uncomfortable to be over. Well, I mean, because we were cold, that was part of it. But just my mind wandering, I'm sitting here like paddling my ass off, and my mind's not there. Like I was disappointed in myself. It's like, man, this is exactly what you had hoped for. It's going, it's me, it's exceeding all your expectations, yet you're sitting here thinking about a sandwich.

It's hard to be present. You know, because it's just, it was, it can kind of lull you into this place of like rocking a baby to sleep almost. I wasn't about to go to sleep. In a tempest. It's like a baby sleeping in a tempest. That's where I was. I just kind of, you know, maybe it wasn't quite enough for me.

Nobody fell out. Maybe I needed to fall out, dude. I just feel like... Well... It just... It didn't quite go extreme enough. So, this is what I wanted to... I just need to be jolted into, like, into my body. I need to be jolted and say, Hey! You're... You're mortal!

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Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. This is what I wanted to talk about. Because the extreme choices did not end with the whitewater rafting, right? The next day, we got on these side-by-side UTVs. Yeah, I was like, let's do some ATV. Which I had never been on before, always wanted to. So, again, these are like the dune buggies where you're like two seats

side-by-side. Essentially, you're at the top to it. There's a roll cage. So that if you fly off, it's not a four-wheeler, you know? And I booked this. Well, I asked Kara to book this, and I said, I want to do ATVing, and I don't want a guide. Yeah, yeah.

That was a good call. Because the guide, you got to stay behind the guide, and you got to go where the guide goes, and you got to go to the speed of the guide. And the guide says things like, well, not just the guide, but the guys who oriented the guide says things like, well, not just the guide, but the guys who oriented us to this

were like, don't do any drifting around the turns and all this stuff and like, watch yourself around blind curves. Because we were gonna,

the route was to go up this mountain. This was a purgatory ski resort, which in summer is just a beautiful mountainside where you can go mountain biking.

You can go alpine roller coaster riding. Yeah, all the summer activities. And you can ATV around. It's absolutely beautiful in there. And. A little bit, just a little bit of snow at the top. Yeah, which we made it all, like the route was to go all the way to where the snow was. And we went beyond where we were supposed to go because we had gone pretty fast.

We had three ATVs, UTVs. So I was like, I'll go by myself for the first part. I found that an interesting choice. Because the way that you presented it in the moment was as if you were making some kind of sacrifice to go by yourself. And I was like, well, of course everyone wants to go by themselves first. It's funny that I'll go by myself and drive first. What, hold on, really? No, I honestly think that's how you see it.

I think you must have seen it differently. When I was like, everyone. I didn't think anybody would wanna be by themselves. Hold on, there's five guys, there's three steering wheels. So by saying, I'll go by myself first, you're guaranteeing that you get to drive first. Of course, nobody wants to be the passenger first. Yeah, I didn't think of it that way. Clearly, you didn't think of it that way when you said, okay, Link.

Because I want to be with people. I thought I was taking one for the team. I was clear in the way you presented it. And by the way. But you also wanted to drive. Because I drove first, I drove on the more boring part when we started switching up. So I actually did take one for the team. Okay. That's your perspective.

That's fine. What I'm saying is that. Yeah, it is. What I'm saying is that. I was like, okay, who's going to go, who's going to be by themselves first because that person's probably going to end up driving more and they're going to get to drive from the beginning. I didn't drive more. We all, we ended up working out the math. We ended up working on the math so that it was even.

And I also drove first with Greg? No, Tim. Tim is my passenger. We all switched it up so that everybody would be with everybody else. The one thing that I said from the top is like, I am not going to be a passenger while Link is driving. I didn't hear you say that.

I told everybody else. Oh. I just said my only rule is I'm not going to be a passenger while he's driving. Huh. Which proved to be, what is the word? Prophetic.

What? So you don't have a perception of how you are, man. Like you've lost your own plot when it comes to this kind of risk-taking thing. So, I mean, again, like breaking your pelvis, balls to, like, breaking your pelvis, balls to the wall, breaking your shoulder, balls to the wall. Like, there's evidence of you... My back feels great. ...of you not calculating your own risk. And so, but what ended up happening, we're going, first of all, we're going very fast. These things probably go 55 top speed.

First of all, we're going very fast. These things probably go 55 top speed. We're getting above 50. I'm not listening to what the guy told me. I'm doing fishtailing and stuff all around these curves. It's like the most fun thing, man. Yeah, and you were in front of me. Yes. And I saw you do that, and I was like, good idea. It was so fun. I didn't even...

And it was a big, wide road road and these are giant fire roads. There's very little risk in it. Skrrt skrrt. There and there becomes this place where we transitioned to... We had switched actually twice by that point, but we got to a place where it became more of a trail. And now we're in a mountain pass on this trail. And the trail is, you know, it's no longer like a well-kept road. It's wet, it's got giant potholes, it's got a giant drop-off on

the side of the mountain all the way around, because it's like this switchback going up the mountain. And at this point, I'm driving by myself, you're driving, and Greg is your passenger, and I'm behind you, and then Harm and Tim are behind me. Yeah. So at some point, like, the thing that's so amazing about these UTVs is they're so forgiving. The shocks are incredible.

I'm like, why don't they make shocks on cars like this? We could do anything. If you put shocks on cars like this- We need pavement. People would just be driving over medians. It's like, you can go like 50 miles an hour and hit a median and it's like, no big deal. It's crazy the way these things forgive. What was that? Nothing.

But, what I was noticing was, I was like, going around some of these turns, like there's a bunch of blind turns, and by the way, there's other people out there on vehicles. You know, you come around these turns and you can't see anything, blind turns. And also every once in a while come to like a big rock or a big dip or something. And it would like really jar you, but you're driving, like you're holding onto the wheel and you kind of anticipate it. I was behind you and I was going as fast as like, I was going a little bit faster than I was comfortable and felt was safe. I was like, I'm taking, this is a little too risky. I'm probably going too fast. I could not catch up with you and Greg. And so I thought to myself, I was like, I can only imagine what Greg is going through right now. Because as a passenger,

you don't have any control. You just have to kind of like just close your eyes. So we get to the next part where we switch. And this is where Greg is going to come drive and I'm going to be the passenger as we go down.

Yeah. Greg. Greg, who's quiet and didn't say anything to you. Greg was like, I don't know if I can drive. My nerves are shot. Really?

He said, he said, poor Greg. Link is a madman. And I was like, well, what did I tell you at the beginning of this? I'm not going to be a passenger while he's driving because he doesn't have

any, he was like, he went around every blind curve, completely pedaled to the metal, never slowed down. He went around every blind curve, didnaled to the metal, never slowed down. He went around every blind curve, didn't slow down at all, and he said he would come to these big rocks and stuff. Like, you know, there was a couple places where, like,

the rock kind of coming down the side of the mountain would become the trail completely, just a rock. There's no traction on that. And he was like, he just would, he didn't slow down on any of the rocks. He didn't slow down at any moment. And I was like, yes, that's why I said I wasn't going to ride with him. Well, you know. So it's interesting to me that you don't have a perception that maybe what Greg was experiencing was pure terror the entire time.

Well, let me give my perspective. Okay. First of all, the faster you go, the less you feel the bumps. Fact. And yes, I did notice that... There was a pool of urine forming around Greg's seat. I did't notice at many points that Greg would eek out a sound. Yeah, right. And it was kind of like ahhh! It was kind of

like that. Ahhh! And every time he would go ahhh! I would go ahhh! Like Mario. I thought we were both just having the time of our lives because I was. It's tough to be...

First of all, as a passenger, it's tough because you're not in control. So I didn't feel... I was taking some of those turns and I was like, I am right on the edge of my comfort zone, and I really hope there's not somebody coming around. But the whole time, I was just thinking, man, because I can't catch up with him right now, he's going, I'm going so fast. He's going faster than me, and Greg's in there.

That's the whole thing. I was thinking that the whole time, and I was like, I can't wait. That's what Greg says. I'm sorry, Greg. It was fun, though. Well, and when I would come around a turn and see like a long straightaway, and I didn't see you, I began to question. You started looking over to the side.

Yeah, I was like, if they go over to the side, we're not finding them today because how are we going to know where they went over? I felt, I mean, I didn't get close to the edge. I was hugging the mountainside. And it was fun. It was fun. We may have not actually been in danger at any point. I'm just saying that, to me, the fun.

He did drive though. I completely understand how fun it is. And like, that's the whole point of it. Like the simulated or actual risk is part of the reward, right? This is what daredevil stuff is all about. This is why Red Bull exists as a brand. The thing that's interesting to me, as is illustrated by the way that you just described it, is that you actually

don't have a perception of the risk. Like it doesn't register with you that like, oh, I'm doing something very dangerous. When I'm doing it, the whole time I'm thinking, this could be a life-changing thing. Like I could make a mistake on this and go right off this thing. I'll come around this turn and run somebody head on. Like The rest of my life is going to be different. But then I'm like, but I'm having more fun than that concern. The fun is outweighing the concern. My perception of you is that there's no concern. The concern is completely absent. I do think that I am a best-case scenario boy.

You're a whale boy i'm a best case scenario boy as opposed to a worst case scenario and i there's probably people all along the spectrum and that's probably so yeah it's like how it's it's you know it's kind of a downer to think about the worst case scenario well let me just me just be clear. And I do think that's- On the spectrum of people, I'm on the end of not, of taking a lot of risks, doing risky things. I don't constantly think about the worst case scenario

and I'm not like, I'm not an Enneagram six. I don't think, I don't not do things because I don't worry about my life. It's just when I'm doing risky things, I'm like, I want to do this in a responsible way.

I was very confident in my life. It's just when I'm doing risky things, I'm like, I want to do this in a responsible way. I was very confident in my ability. That's what Greg – I wish I could have recorded the things that Greg said when he got into the – and was slowly coming back to normal as he was driving down the mountain. He said something about your confidence. I think it may have been blind confidence. I feel like I'm a good extreme driver. I'm sure you are. We just drove and drove back from visiting Lily, and it was like a six-hour drive.

And six hours can turn into eight eight or it can turn into five, depending on how you drive. And Christy doesn't like to drive. And I was like, you know what? You're sleepy. Just go to sleep. And I kept looking over at her. And a couple times she tried to go to sleep.

And then I'd look at her again and she'd be wide awake again. And I guess she's learned not to say anything to me. I'm an aggressive driver, but I couldn't help but notice that every time I would switch lanes, Christy would look in the mirror. Christy would always look in the mirror. Like to see if... And I didn't say anything to her.

I was like, well, you know, if she wants to... She's not relaxed. If she wants to help, she can help. But I mean, we got there in record time. We got back in record time. I mean, it was kind of your fault. I mean, you called us up and you're like, hey, if you get back in time,

I'm slow roasting a pork butt. I'm making some barbecue. I was like, best case scenario, boy, he's got to get back for that barbecue. That's the best case scenario. And boy, I made it back in under five hours for something. It was awesome. And your wife had a great.

But she wore out that side mirror just looking into it. You didn't talk to her about it? No. There's nothing to be said. There's nothing to be said. So I believe in taking risks. Like, I think that... I was watching this TikTok.

I just didn't think... I didn't think I was taking a risk, and I think that's your point. I felt like I was in a safe, fun zone. I wasn't going to go up the mountain. When you go around a blind turn, balls to the wall without slowing down at all, when we're on almost a single track

thing at that point, when there's other UTVs coming down the hill, why do you not slow down? Because I was going... Well, because I was really hugging the right. But do you think... And I think if anybody's coming around the curve...

But when you're doing that, are you thinking to yourself, are you pushing it out of your mind that maybe somebody could be coming around? Like, is that going to ruin it for you if you think about it? I'm just like, I'll... It's unlikely that it's going to happen? Yeah, it's very unlikely. And I can react. And they're not going to be coming around that close to me.

Unless they're you. Yeah, unless they're me. Right, right, right. Yeah. Exactly. So if it's another you. I'm counting on me being one of a kind. So if you are coming down, you're not going to be hugging the outside of the mountain.

You're going to be on the inside coming down. Because that's gonna be hugging the outside of the mountain. You're gonna be on the inside coming down because that's the safe spot in terms of the slope, right? I mean, we met one other ATV going up, and I passed him. Yeah, and I'm not... Listen, I didn't slow... When you stopped, I probably caught up with you in, like, 60 to 90 seconds. But I'm just saying that, like that when I got to a blind curve, I wouldn't just say pedal to the metal. I would just take a little bit off.

And then I'd come around and I'd be like, Link has to not be letting up at all. And then Greg was like, he was pedal to the metal around every blind curve. So I'm just a little bit worried about you. If it had a horn, I probably would have blew it. I'm a little bit worried about you. If it had a horn, I probably would have blew it. I'm a little bit worried about you because you do, you have a history of breaking bones. I saw a TikTok of a guy doing something that I would never do.

Okay. He was at the Grand Canyon and he was like, ready? And then he like, he like takes a four-step running thing and then he jumps over the railing and to land on the other side which from the angle of the camera you couldn't see that there was ground on the other side of the railing but the thing that he didn't take into account was that the ground on the other side of the railing was sloped back towards the drop and yeah into the grand canyon so the dude goes over the rail and then he's like got this smile on his face like, gotcha! And then as he lands, he tumbles. Tumble, tumble, tumble. And then

the woman, his wife, his loved one, whatever, who's videoing this is like, ahhh! And then he's like, he couldn't have gotten any closer without just going over. But he saved himself. Well, he stopped. He stopped almost falling. Yeah. I would never do that. That, I mean, that is patently stupid. And that's different. Yeah, because you don't like, you don't like, you don't want to go rock climbing.

You've never expressed a desire to go skydiving. I actually want, I want to skydive. Shepard really wants to skydive, so I'm probably going to do that with him at some point. Yeah, I mean, skydive. Shepard really wants to skydive, so I'm probably going to do that with him at some point. Yeah, I mean, I like driving. I do feel like I'm not a total idiot. It's not about being an idiot. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm just saying that— I didn't totally disengage my brain. When someone else is experiencing it with you, they are perceiving the danger. And then when I bring this up to you, you're like, what? Greg was having, like, Greg was scared? That was, it seemed like it was a surprise to you. And it wasn't a surprise to me at all. As the person driving behind you, I was like,

Greg's fucking, like, shitting his pants right now. Yeah, I did notice there were no high fives. But again, to bring it back were no high fives But, again To bring it back to the fact that we have You know, all these things that we're talking about doing That are fun Are different levels of danger And I'm all for it

Last time we talked about this Then when we quantified What are the most dangerous things we do, that's when I broke my collarbone after that. Yeah. I'm not comfortable having this conversation because you're jinxing it. No. No, I just think that—

You're actually willing my injuries. Well, the balls to the wall, so it's not don't do the things. It's just like, okay, there are certain moments in which pulling back a little bit is going to drastically decrease chances of something going sideways. But I don't think you shouldn't not do it. You may have seen there's a genre of TikTok that usually is from like a brain doctor. And they say things like 10 things that I would not do as a brain doctor. I guess that's a neurologist. Okay.

And then they begin to list things. And, you know, some of it is stuff that I also wouldn't do. But then some of it's things like, well. Like, I don't know what. I mean, if it was like 10 things I wouldn't do as a safety specialist, but I don't know why. Never ride a motorcycle. Oh, because of the brain injury. Yeah, they're just like, riding a motorcycle, not worth the risk.

And I'm like, okay, well. Yeah. I don't know exactly how much I agree with that. Like, my wife doesn't want me to ride a motorcycle. And so I'm just like, okay, I don't really want to ride a motorcycle enough to begin that discussion. But maybe if it was like, okay, well, we're going to rent these dirt bikes and go through this desert thing on these dirt bikes. And I'd be like, okay, I'll do that. But I'm going to ride my motorcycle across the country on roads

with cars on them that will annihilate me if I run into them. Okay, maybe that's not a risk I want to take. But what I found myself thinking is, I don't agree with living like this because I could die by just some weird thing falling on me that I have no control over, you know? So I'm not going to completely try to eliminate risk. I'm just going to try to be like, okay, well, and I think one of the things that I think with things like white water rafting and the UTVing, I'm like, this is something that normal people pay for on a daily basis.

Like every single day, these guys take a group of people of various athletic inclination out onto this river to do this thing. I'm not Alex Honnold trying to like be the first guy to freak solo. Right. El Capitan, you know? So if I'm doing something that I'm not the first one to do it, then I think I'm going to be okay. That's my general. And then when I'm doing it,

maybe I'll do it in a way that like takes into account the risk. Like the most risky thing that we did, I think, was a UTV, because that was the point in which we weren't in control. Rafting, the guide could be, we could be four dead bodies and the guide would be okay. Right. He doesn't really need us to paddle. It just makes us feel like we're getting our money's worth. That's my theory, at least.

Probably wrong, but. Well, I think with the weight, you have to paddle, but. You gotta do some paddling, but he could probably get through. So was whitewater rafting on the neurologist list? No. Was UTV? No.

The only motor sport was a motorcycle. I don't remember the other things. But just the point being, I'm not going to live... Repeatedly banging your head against the locker? I'm not going to live in such a way... Oh, she was like, I would never let my child play tackle football before the age of 14. So it wasn't like I'll never let my kid

play tackle football, period. It was just definitely not before the age of 14. Which, you know, if I had kids who really wanted to play football, I'd probably try to deter it. But I think calculated risk is, I mean, these things are fun for a reason. It's the same reason I like horror movies because I'm like, I'm not going to die. That demon is not going to possess me.

It's going to possess that person on the screen. And unless Brian the Exorcist is right and just going to the movie is a problem. I think the word calculated in front of risk, maybe I'll think about that. Yeah, because as someone who's just watching from the outside, it feels like once you've committed to the activity, like there was a calculation that led to you making a decision to do it. I'm wearing the helmet. And then once you're in the middle. I'm wearing the helmet. And then once you're in the middle of it, you're like.

I'm wearing the seatbelt. Calculation. Calculating risk at this point may hinder my fun. So I ain't gonna be thinking about that while I'm out here. We'll just deal with it. We'll deal with it if it happens. Is that an accurate description of what's going on? Maybe, maybe.

I think it's hard to, you know, it's like, it takes work and it's not fun work to calculate. Well, I don't think I spent too much time doing it. To me, it was just like- That's how it feels to me. To me, it was- I'm describing my perception. The blind turns.

Okay, what can happen around this turn? What can happen? Yeah, right. You don't want to think that. You want to think, I'm going to go around this little bit. What can happen around this turn? What can happen? Yeah, right, you don't wanna think that, you wanna think, I'm gonna go around this turn as fast as I can. Yeah, I mean, I was looking. Good, good. And if you had been with Harm or Tim,

or, and you weren't gonna be with me, because I already said, I ruled it out in the beginning. I just did not know that. Well, it's funny that you, like, and the reason I didn't wanna do it, I didn't hear you say it. The reason I didn't wanna do it is just like, I don't wanna have a conflict with him on this trip

about that. Yeah. Like, if I'm in the passenger seat and I start trying to tell you how to drive, you're gonna get really mad at me. And it's like, I'm not gonna do that. I'll let somebody else do it. And Greg's not gonna say anything. But Tim... Oh, well, no, Greg said a lot of the same thing.

Tim or Harm probably would've been like, slow down, man! It's a blind frickin' turn! Greg had a great time. Point taken. Point taken. I mean, I think he had a great time. Sorry, Greg. The thing is, once you live through it... And you're welcome. Quite a thrill, right? Yeah is once you live through it. And you're welcome.

Quite a thrill, right? Yeah, once you live through it, it's like, well, that was a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, clean out your britches and mail me a check. My favorite memory was the most, you know, innocuous part. We're gathered around the fire pit the first night. We're catching up. It's nice to reconnect with our college buddies. We all have who we are to everybody. And then there's like, you know, our friends are professionals, you know?

I feel like they can come, they can hang out with us, and they can just let loose. Professionals. Yeah, I mean, we're not professionals. We're all professionals. We're not professionals, but they are. What do you mean by that? They have reputable jobs where people trust and respect them. They contribute to society.

And we don't. Well, we do, but it's in kind of a kooky, entertaining kind of way. It's not professional at all. Yeah, yeah. It's like they could all be members of the Chamber of Commerce. But then they come out with us and we're, you know, it's like, hey, look at us, we're college boys again. But poor Tim, poor Tim could not get

from New York State to Durango. He was, his last flight, he just couldn't get on it. He was like, well, I could come the next day and I could miss the first night and I could miss. He ended up deciding, and we all agree, this is the best decision. He drove from Denver. Instead of getting the flight to Durango,

he rented a car and he drove six hours to meet up with us that night. And it was after a long day of flying and he was gonna be there at like 1.30 a.m. And first of all, I mean, we were hedging at the top of this because we were like i think i'm i mean i felt kind of bad like i thought maybe i didn't know if it was my allergies or if i was coming down with something and we had a long day of flying and i ain't got a lot of sleep that week trying to get ready for the trip and i was like i think i'll probably be in bed by the time you show up after driving six hours but then as we the four of us were kind

of around the fire outside and uh we were like let's check in with tim at that point once we checked in with him and he's driving and we're like how you doing like you fall asleep he says well you know it's you know it's it's tough to stay awake but talking to you guys is really helping we put him we We put the phone in a chair, in the empty chair. His chair. And we just included him in the conversation for a few hours until he got there. But he was going... When you drive from Denver to Durango, which first of

all, I think during the day would have been a beautiful drive. Right. He couldn't see shit the whole time. Right. But all he knew was that he was going into mountain passes, and he would be like, I'm going into a mountain pass! And he would just go away. And then we would keep talking. 15 to 20 minutes later, he'd be like, oh, Tim's calling. I'm back!

And he's like, I'm going into a mountain pass! That was one of my favorite memories, was just the fact that we were reconnecting, and we were kind of his lifeline. Like, keep coming, Tim! We're here for it, you can make it! But it was almost like, as long as I didn't look at the phone, at some points it was like he was already there. Yeah.

You know, and then I looked over there at Tim, see what he thought about something, and just be like a little phone propped up. It was very strange. It's kind of like, I mean, as we continue to get together year after year with our college buddies, you know, we'll start dying. And then I guess as we've discussed, if we keep getting together as college buddies, I'm going to kill one of them.

I didn't want Greg's blood on your hands because you would never, ever forgive yourself. That would be pretty bad, yeah. That's the thing I need to think about. But then we would just have Greg's personality on a phone device. An app, yeah. We'll have it on a device, and we'll always put all of our college buddies in a chair to be a part of the conversation. But it will be an AI representation.

It'll be just basically the same. Yeah. So that's what we're going to do. Tim did eventually show up, and we stayed awake for him. And I will say- But we were like- Bless his heart. Bless his heart.

He had a real tough time getting back. He got back like a day and a half after everyone else because of flight issues going back. Yeah, we got home that night. Tim took several- Like two days later, he's like, I got home. I was like, what? Yeah, Tim took several things for the team.

Thankfully, he did not have to be the passenger in your UTV as well. Now, one of the things that I really appreciate about this group of guys is, first of all, you know, very similar life stage. We all got married within a couple of years of one another all had kids in the same general like five to ten year period or so we're all kind of dealing with you know anywhere from the college student to you know middle schooler and everything in between. Everybody has been married for over 20 years, 20 years or so. Yeah.

And to all the women that we all knew back in the day. And it's like, I've said this before when we talk about our background, being involved in Campus Crus know, Campus Crusade, campus ministry, is like one of the positives, I think I've firmly established what I feel the negatives are. So, you know, I've talked about that a lot. But one of the positives about that, about being in a group that there was this intentional community, but also this intentional like, hey, get inside somebody's soul a little bit,

you know, as a friend. It's not just about, hey, what can we do together? Let's party. It's about how can we do life together? How can we be there for one another, right? And so that, even though we're all in different places in terms of where we've kind of landed spiritually, that connection remains. And you can have a conversation about anything, and we're all able to kind of talk about what we're going through in life right now and then be this, like, supportive group for one another. That, I don't know.

I'm not in any other – we've been blessed with being a part of groups of friends where that type of vulnerability and encouragement is kind of part of it. It isn't just with those guys. It's kind of been represented in most or all of the meaningful adult friendships that we've had with other guys. Yeah. I have to assume that that's not super typical for guys who get together. Yeah. So I'm very thankful for it.

It was kind of baked into us as part of our church experience that i think it's you know it's a level of connection you set the bar at a certain place in terms of like community and connection that there's still that's still very important to us and defines a a robust friendship you know if you can't if you can't really go there, then you're left thinking, well, when something goes wrong in my life, then they're going to want to be here for me, but what's that going to be like?

Then we start talking about these things. I think there are friends that, your friends can uh you know your friends can surprise you in those moments you know i would hope that everybody would have a friend that even if they don't get really deep all the time they would be there for them but i do think that that's kind of like a that's the standard that we bring into what makes the most meaningful of friendships is that you can talk about anything and exhibit care and listen. And I think one of the really beautiful things about it as well

is that while we are at different, we landed in different places, we have different worldviews. we landed in different places. We have different worldviews. No one is trying to, or no one is trying to change anybody else's mind. No one is like actively like, we don't feel like we are projects for these guys and they don't feel like they are projects for us. Definitely.

It's about the connection. Right. Right? And so many, when you- And it's very hopeful, right? Well, but when you leave the church, I mean, I know so many people whose friendships have been so redefined. Because one of the things that happens so often when you leave the church is that, well, first of all, most often you're kind of just shunned. And you're kind of held up as this

example of what could go wrong and then people try to find things about your story and your circumstances to serve as like you know warnings for other people but another thing that happens is that even when the relationships continue it's very clear like as someone who's been on the inside who's someone who's been in the church who's been an evangelical as someone who's been on the inside, who's someone who's been in the church, who's been an evangelical Christian, who's been like very focused on changing people's minds and sharing the gospel with people, all your relation, it's just like, you know,

in one sense, it's kind of like when you're involved in a pyramid scheme and all your relationships become about you getting people to be a part of your thing, right? It's like, you can't have a conversation without wanting to like sell Mary Kay to somebody. Well, sometimes it becomes like, you can't have a conversation without wanting to sell Jesus to somebody. And like that makes relationships awkward. And it seems like, is this about, is this about love and connection or is this about an agenda? And that isn't what, that doesn't, it doesn't, I'm not saying we don't have great philosophical, spiritual conversations where we challenge one another.

But it's done in love. And the thing that is kind of pervades the conversation is this love and connection and wanting to like get under the rocks with each other. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. I think it's life-giving to say that when somebody loves you unconditionally, it's life-giving. Yeah.

I think it boils down to that. And that's why we're going to do it again. And I'm already thinking about what are we going to do now? We think we're going to move on from whitewater rafting. No more whitewater rafting. Yep. No more of that. We're gonna do it again, and I'm already thinking about what are we gonna do now? We think we're gonna move on from No more white water rafting. White water rafting. Yep. No more of that. Just because we feel like we've done it.

We've done it. Like, what else can we do? Maybe not ATVing, apparently. There was talk of Alaska. I had a lot of fun doing it. Don't get me wrong. I'm just not gonna be a passenger. If Tim can't get to Durango,

I don't know how he's gonna get to Alaska at the same time as us. And Alaska is a bit of a problem. I didn't bring this up, but my dad's been talking to me about wanting to go to Alaska. Not with me, but just in general. So maybe this is reconnaissance or we might have to invite my dad. That'd be funny. The challenge is it has to be a long weekend. That's the time that we can all kind of commit to it. And this time was one day longer.

We want some more. We're open. Hashtag Earbiscuits. Let us know if you got any suggestions for... Here's what we came up with as our criteria. We want to have a home base that's more of a... We like to luxuriate in an Airbnb private setting. So not like a multi-day like trip on mule back. Yeah. Where you're camping every single day. We like a good hot tub. We like a good fire pit. And then everybody needs their

own bed. Poor Greg got stuck with the twin bed this time so I guess I owe him twice what were the other requirements? sense of adventure a sense of adventure still oh and also proximity to a cool town

that was something that Harm threw in and I think first of all Durango nice proximity to a cool town. That was something that Harm threw in, and I think, like... Okay. First of all, Durango... Nice. Durango is doing a lot. We love Durango.

A lot, really well. And we shouted out the Durango Hot Springs on our, I think, on my Instagram story because we met James. Oh yes. Who was in charge of, well, first of all, let me just say, we don't like to talk about getting recognized because it makes us sound like

we're really into getting recognized. But sometimes you show up in a town, sometimes you show up in a town, nobody says anything. Nobody knows who we are, has no point of reference. And then sometimes you show up in a town, sometimes you show up in a town, nobody says anything. Nobody knows who we are, has no point of reference. And then sometimes you show up in a town and it's like, this town, they've caught the mythical virus or something. Because every single place that we went, every store, every restaurant, it wouldn't just be, oh, there's one employee who's a mythical beast.

It would be like half the staff and all these other people. And, you know, they're like bringing us stuff. And then the guy in charge of Visit Durango shows up at the restaurant. And he's like, this is the best bartender in Colorado. And he's going to do this special shot for you guys right now. And he's like, what else you guys want to do? You want to go to the hot springs? So thanks to James for that hookup.

If you're in Durango, go to those hot springs. Yeah, that's a cool spot. It's like a bunch of hot tubs. We like to chill out in a hot tub and watch live music. And then the kids, the family area was totally separate. Love that. Yeah. They've got a good thing going there they got a good thing going in durango in general and lots of hospitality and lots of adventure but a lot of good food so that whole that we wanted to have uh that home base a sense of adventure like we want to do and it doesn't have to be one big

thing it could be like well one day you're gonna like, well, one day you're going to do this, and the next day you're going to do this. Just some stuff, like, dude stuff, adventure. And then the last thing being that, like, cool town where you can, like, go have a drink or get some good food. So... And it doesn't have to be Colorado. But Colorado has a lot of that.

Nope. It can be anywhere. Hashtag Ear Biscuits. Let us know, or leave us a voicemail. 1-888-EAR-POD-1 I caught you off guard there. It's time for me to give my rec. Oh man, this is a good one. If you love peanut butter like we do, and...

Uh-oh. If you're willing to spend $20 on a jar of peanut butter, treat yourself. Do it at least once. Get yourself some Spoon Junkie. Not a sponsor. I just love this stuff. They have different varietals of peanut butter, nut butters. And the one that I got is called...

Crack Butter. Smooth Cinnamon Date Dual Peanut Butter. You can get it off the website for $20. Does it have cardamom in it? Can you click on the ingredients? Mm-hmm. Because I think that somebody got this for me. You can't. No, I don't think it does. I think there may be another one that has that. And that was the thing that I don't, for me, is not spice.

But there's a lot of options. I like to slice apples and dip it into the crack butter spoon junkie. Do you use an apple slicer? You gotta get one of those. I think I have one. That's another wreck for another day. Spoon junkie. I don't... I guess it's a heroin reference.

Well... it is now. I mean, the name of the flavor I like is Crack Butter. Yeah, yeah. I think they're a little irreverent. Or maybe there's crack in it. Food is not well regulated. There's not. Goodness. We'll see you next time.

Hi Rhett and Link. I'm a newer Ear Biscuits pod listener and viewer and I just wanted to call to tell you guys the beautiful visualization I see every time I hear the title of the podcast, Ear Biscuits. You know, when you bust open like a can of like Pillsbury

biscuits or like croissants and it doesn't bust open like very far, there's just like a little crack and the air comes out and pushes the biscuit out I just imagine that coming out of an ear with kind of a fart sound it's kind of a cute little visualization that I get when I see the name ear biscuits so thank you for that I love it bye