Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Rhett’s Album Listening Party | Ear Biscuits Ep. 351

Episode Date: September 26, 2022

It’s finally here! The James and The Shame debut album, Human Overboard, has dropped and we’re having a listening party! In this episode, Rhett and Link give you a taste of all 12 songs on the album and Rhett shares a little background on his inspiration and the production process. If you haven’t already, go check out Human Overboard! Available now on all streaming platforms. Want to hear your voice on Ear Biscuits? Call 1-888-EAR-POD1 and we might just play your call on an upcoming episode! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is mythical. Your teen requested a ride, but this time, not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your teen to your Uber account today. Ramble. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong

friends talk about life for a long time. I'm Rhett. And I'm Link. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we're having a little listening party. Congratulations, Rhett. It's finally happened. Your freaking album is out.

I mean, not when we're recording this, but yes, when you're listening. I'm in celebration mode. James in the shame, Rhett's alter ego, where he plays music that is sincerely plays music that is sincerely sentimentized and sincerely great. Oh, that's good. It is my pleasure to sit here and listen to it with you

and kinda talk through each song, you know? Yeah, this is like a listening party. I'm gonna take more, I'm gonna take a, you know, a journalistic approach at times. Okay, like an NPR kind of thing? I have a notepad here. Oh, that's intimidating. Whereas I'm going to maybe make some jottings

that then will lead to you exposing the truth behind these songs. But also the- I just got all the music off of a royalty-free site and just sang over it. You want me to admit that finally? Okay, up first, go for it. So again, the album is human overboard.

The whole album is out now, wherever you listen to your music. What we're gonna be doing is listening to all 11 tracks in album order. We're actually gonna gonna be doing is listening to all 11 tracks in album order. We're actually gonna, as you're listening to this, you're not gonna hear the full track because we're not gonna just play the full song for every single song.

We're gonna listen to the full song. So we might reference something that is in one of the full songs that you didn't hear because we're gonna play like a portion of the song to give you the feel and the vibe so you can listen to the album on your own time. So that's what we'll do. And I wanted to do, I'm actually gonna take these out

because I'm actually not listening to anything right now and it makes my voice sound weird. Yeah, I already had to do that. I'm gonna do what they used to do in the old movies. And I'm gonna do the credits first because I don't wanna just put the people that I wanna thank at the end and you're just like, I've heard the whole album and then I'm done.

And so you might wanna, I mean, if you decide you wanna fast forward. I'm gonna fast forward through it. You know what I'm saying? You might decide that you wanna fast forward, but don't because one of the coolest things about this whole project is has been the collaborative nature of it coming to fruition and being what it is.

You know, I had a lot of people who made me sound the way that I sound and shape these songs and shape the whole project that I collaborated with on different parts of it. So I wanna just start by thanking them. Oh. Do you have a list? I do.

First of all, I wanna just start with- Now you haven't won an award. I just wanna clarify. Yeah, no, I haven't. Maybe you will. Well, okay, what kind of award? I'm just saying typically you thank people. The Daily Record.

The Daily Record's gonna be best album of the year from a guy who used to have a studio in Lillington. Yeah, you could get a Chamber of Commerce award at least for this thing. No, I'm just saying these are the people who made this project what it is. Shout them out, man. So first of all, the person who played the biggest role,

Derek Furman, my producer, who of course we got to know. I love me some Derek. We got to know through Brittain, Link's cousin, because he was recording some stuff with him and he's done some stuff for the Mythical Society for our collabs that we do over there, the vinyl that we do. And the reason I decided to go with Derek on this project

isn't because he had ever done any country or folk music, he's a pop guy, but because he is so committed to making things work and he was so committed to learning the process and he told me multiple times, I'm learning so much about this type of music as we make these songs. And again, the way that it worked is I would write the lyrics and the music,

basically me and a guitar singing to a certain beat, the BPM. That's a beat per minute. Yeah, and I would send him that and that is the backbone of everything that he then created. If it was one beat per minute, that would be slow. Sorry, go ahead.

That's whale music. Yeah. But then he would kind of send back, because again, I have another job, actually several other jobs that I do here at Mythical. So this has been a side project and a hobby. So I haven't been able to devote the kind of time that typically people devote

to this kind of thing. So I would send him these demos and then he would come back with like, he's like, hey, here's what I'm thinking about the baseline. This is kind of what I'm hearing in a drum groove kind of thing that then we would then send off to other people to add their pieces. It was like so collaborative and so many steps

to finally get to the final song. But he was the one that was guiding that process to kind of be like, here's what the, he would send me a bunch of options and he would send me, but really it was his ear and his instinct with these different musicians that he hired that made these songs go from a guy playing something on a guitar to what you end up hearing on the album.

And he was just so intimately involved in making it what it is so I just wanted to start, big thanks to Derek Furman. You would be lucky to have him as a producer on your project. Yeah, a lot of people, they don't really, you know, if you've not experienced it, sometimes it's hard.

Well, in hip hop, it's actually, you know, a lot more credit is given to producers, but like growing up listening to music, I really didn't think about the producer's role. And so everything you just described is not necessarily something that is just because of your situation and all the different directions that you've been pulled in that you needed to like give it over to Derek or something.

I think you're describing what a good producer does, which is something that I didn't appreciate at first and like helping bring shape and cohesion and specific direction to songs that are in their rawest form and also a producer can make or break a song entirely. And he's a musical, a great producer is also a musical director. Somebody who he's like, hey, let's try that again

and give me a little bit more softness or give me a little bit more emotion in that. Or, you know, even a couple of times, this didn't happen on every song, but there were a couple of songs where he was like, ah, the phrasing of that part is kind of bumping me. And we would sit there and we would try to figure out like, oh, I'm gonna use this syllable,

I'm gonna use this word here and like locking it in so there's not things that bump you throughout the album. So he was integral in that process. Another person that did so much, Alex Straley. The first time I talked about Alex, when we talked about Believe Me, I mispronounced his last name. I think I said Strahl.

Oh. Straley. So Alex is just, he's a multi-instrumentalist musician here in California, in Los Angeles, who's in a couple of bands, but he's also kind of a session guitar guy. And Derek knew him, you know, originally with so much, like we wanted to do pedal steel, we wanted to do obviously like country sounding guitar

in places, we wanted banjo, we wanted mandolin. Alex did all of that. So originally it was gonna be like, Derek was like, I gotta have to talk to some contacts to get some Nashville guys to do these authentic country parts. And then he's like, and then he didn't really have any luck with that,

but he's like, hey, I know a guy in Pasadena, Alex Straley, who he's got all these old guitars and old instruments, like the pedal steel is a 1946 instrument. Wow. That's not even a pedal steel, it's a multi-chord, it's something, it's kind of a predecessor to a pedal steel.

Really? That he engineered to be able to, because basically the way the multi-chord, you would hit a pedal and it changes the whole chord that's being played, right? He found a way to make it where he can, he like, he does all this, he manipulates all these instruments and stuff

and he basically engineered this thing to make it into a pedal steel, but that's not technically what you would see as a lap pedal steel. Oh, a pedal steel, you play the chords with your feet? With your feet, a pedal. How many pedals are there? Is it like an organ? I don't know.

I don't know. What? I haven't seen it. Yeah, because when they're playing, that's the thing is that these striking- These were remote, in some senses, I think, yeah, they're like on a live session with each other that I could tune into

while I was doing my job, but I wasn't there when there's actually doing it, right? Did you ever meet Alex in person at all? By the time this podcast is being recorded, I will, because- No, we are recording it. Podcast is live because I wanted to go out with Derek and Alex because they were the two, like, they're also local. So you have plans

to meet him, but you still have not met them. I wanna do a celebration dinner with them. So yes, we will have done that. But anyway, Alex is, again, he's not a country guy. He just has great instincts, and I think it ended up bringing this awesome vibe to a lot of the, so the way that I would describe it is if you are impressed by guitar

that you hear on the album, it's him, not me. Right, I can play, you know, I'm proficient, especially as a songwriter when it comes to, I can do what I need to do on a guitar to write a song and to kind of keep a rhythm and do a picking pattern and that kind of thing. But like, if you're impressed by it, chances are it was him doing it.

All right, who else you got? Gunnar Olsen did all the percussion and all the drums. That's a good name for someone to do something. And this is just a dude who's a session drummer in New York who has worked with a bunch of big stars. He did all the percussion on Springsteen's Western Stars album. He's worked with Miley Cyrus and a bunch of people

who are more talented and more prolific than me. But again, Derek knows him and he knew he could do this kind of like Americana style and he nailed it. So thanks to Gunner. I'll talk about more musicians once we get into individual tracks, but again, I wanna talk, I wanna thank Anna Weber who took all the pictures

for the whole thing. So any pictures where I look like I might be a legitimate artist. Or feeling shame while the picture's being taken. That was Anna Weber, thanks to Anna Weber. The album art for the album, the me in the water on the front, that was illustrator Greg Newbold who painted that, digitally painted that.

And I don't think he's done much album art. He's just like a legit artist painter who does like gallery work and stuff. And we, you know, Cara helped me find him online and he did an incredible job. Kendrick Kidd, who we used to work with a long time ago to do a lot of design. Back in the day. He designed the James and the Shane logo.

Okay. And then Kara, Kara Powers, our assistant. Kendrick designed the first Good Mythical Morning logo. The flame. Yeah, yeah, see? And the Rhett and Link logo that has us, we look like one chess piece, like two faces facing. Yeah, the two heads, the one head and two faces. Yeah, he also did that.

Yeah, so, and then Kara Powers, our assistant, who spent a lot of her time working on this with me and finding these talented people. So it was just so cool because I just, you know, we haven't done anything like this in a while because we have this incredible team here at Mythical that we have an idea and the team implements that idea.

But this was kind of more the old school way we used to work, which is like, hey, we need somebody, let's find somebody online that we like their work and we can just collaborate with them. Yeah. It was really cool just when you bring somebody into a process and they make something into what it is. Summer is like a cocktail.

It has to be mixed just right. Start with a handful of great friends. Now add your favorite music. And then, finally, add Bacardi Rum. Shake it together. And there you have it. The perfect summer mix. Bacardi.

Do what moves you. Live passionately. Drink responsibly. Copyright 2024. Bacardi. It's trade dress and the bat device are trademarks of Bacardi and Company Limited. Rum 40% alcohol by volume. It took me a while to figure out what the album order is going to be.

And actually, this process right now is committing me what the album order is going to be. And actually this process right now is committing me to the album order. Oh, okay. Well, okay. Yeah, I gave some input into this. So I'm curious how it's gonna shake out. I uploaded them. I uploaded the song yesterday.

I could technically change it. I have not listened to them in album order before now. Believe me, the first single has been out. We've already listened to it once, but we gotta listen to it again. All right, here we go. And where I have like a music video, which is three of these songs,

we'll play that on the video version of the podcast so you can see those visuals. Okay. Starting with Believe Me. Hit it. I think you want an answer I'm not prepared to give cause the one

I gave you said that that ain't it must be something that I want Fame and fortune or at least a little don't It may seem too cut and dry But I just found some things I could not brush aside Now if you love life

I don't think it's true I'm not asking you to agree, I'm just asking you to believe me. You say my heart is never true That might say more about you Love it. First single. We, you know, we've already talked about this one when the single came out, so I don't wanna retread any of that ground, but we have the benefit of like,

you've heard the most fan feedback from this song because it's been out the longest. You know, what's, so one, I'm kinda curious about like, what's that experience been like? What are, are people getting it? Are people, you know, what is it, what kind of conversations is it leading to? Because most of the people who are listening,

at this point, listening to my music are people who are already fans of us. We're getting like the reaction to this type of music from people who are just fans of us, which doesn't mean they're fans of country music. Now we have a subset of Mythical Beasts who are fans of country music, but the most common, first of all, the response has been so positive

from a musical standpoint. I'll talk about thematically that response, but surprise, people are like, oh, I didn't. People do this kind of thing all the time, right? And it's a trope. It's a trope for if you're doing this one thing in entertainment, you're like, you always just think, I can also do music.

I think the thing that is a reminder to people- I think podcasts is the new version of that, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is that we started our career as musicians. So that's actually, this is going back to the basics for me in a lot of ways. The first thing we ever did professionally as entertainers, it was music-based.

But people are still surprised because, you know, they come on board at certain points and- Yeah, right, it's always like, what, you do this? I mean, we've had fans of our music for years who are like, what about a serious album? So it kind of scratches that itch for them. Yeah. But there's a lot of people who, yeah,

it's like they never knew what sound it would be, that it would be so country. The most common response is, I'm not a fan of country music, or I hate country music, but I love this. And it's interesting, I'm seeing the same exact thing, because when we're recording this, I just put Where We're Going, the second single out,

the same exact reaction in terms of, I don't like country, but I like this song too. And a lot of people are now saying, hey, it's not that you don't like country music, it's that you've been listening to the wrong country music. You've been listening to radio country music. You've been listening to what's popular on the radio. Nobody listens to the radio anymore,

but you know what I'm saying? It's a certain type of sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all these songs about trucks and God and country or whatever. And it's like, this is not that. And I think people, it's like, oh, you actually do like broadly country, folk, Americana, however,

there's multiple ways to describe this. Yeah, you're turning people onto it. Well, I wanted to shout out a couple of moments. Well, the one lyric early on when you say, because the one I gave you said that that ain't it. I like that lyric because you've got the you, which is the end of one sentence, the beginning and the next sentence, right?

Am I hearing that right? No. Because the one I gave you said that that ain't it. No, it's because the one I gave you said that ain't it. Oh, oh. But you can hear it that way. I always hear it more colloquially. It also makes sense that way.

I gave it to you, you said that ain't it. Well, I mean, that's what I'm saying, yeah. It is what you're saying, but you actually didn't do what I thought you did. No, I just said- Now is your time to change your answer? Because the one I gave, you said that ain't it. Yeah, that makes more sense.

But it's also the one I gave you, you said that ain't it. That needs to be how you, you need to take credit for that. Okay. Okay, I did it on purpose. What about, you know, in the chorus, or you say my heart was never true, that may say more about you. Is that the type of thing that it speaks for itself?

Or I'm curious, what does this say about people? Well, I don't know, that's for them to figure out. Okay, yeah, I respect that. But I think that the reason that this is the first song is because it's what I explained before. Musically, I think it kind of sets the tone, but thematically, like the album order, more than the musical progression,

I leaned into the thematic progression of like, if you were to sit down with me and I were to begin talking to you about my deconstruction, which is not even really something that I want to do unless somebody starts asking me about it, especially now, I don't, you know, I'm not interested in changing people's minds as much as I may have been at an earlier point,

but like, what is the process that I would lead you through as I was kind of trying to explain myself, right? This is kind of, this is obviously a super self-indulgent project on multiple levels, but also just the fact that I think I got something to say and that you should listen to it, right? In there as self-indulgent. But if I did, if I am talking to you,

regardless of where you're at on the spectrum of spiritual deconstruction, Christianity, whatever, this kind of sets the tone of saying, the point of this is not for you to agree with what I'm saying. The point is just listen, if somebody is gonna tell you about their spiritual experience,

take their word that they're the closest to it as they can possibly be and that they're being honest with you in what they're saying. And so if your perspective at the end of the day is that, oh, you never were a Christian and you may be committed to that because of some theological perspective that you have, again, that says more about you.

In that instance, if you think that I wasn't a Christian, that's not actually, there's nothing about me that demonstrates that I wasn't a Christian. It's not actually, there's nothing about me that demonstrates that I wasn't a Christian. It's you and your commitment to a specific ideology that makes you see me in a certain way. So when you say my heart was never true, this has a lot more about you than it does about me and my experience.

Yeah, and who wants to talk to somebody who's not gonna listen to, who's not going to believe what they're saying, but instead just try to put them in a box and like mine their true motives. Like assuming that you're lying to me, my goal in this conversation is to find the real truth. That's what I'm gonna do here today, right?

Just kidding. No, I know how that feels. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we felt a, right? Just kidding. No, I know how that feels. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we felt a lot of that. Right. And I think it's the perfect start to the album. So before I move to the next song, I wanna thank Casey Frank.

You're gonna thank people every time, huh? Well, as we get new instrumentalists. Okay, all right, all right, fine. Casey Frank played that organ. That's a real organ. We had a fake organ in there originally. And then I was like, man, you know me, I'm not a details guy.

It's like, but Derek's like, you know, we gotta get a real organ. And I'm glad he did. There's no fake instruments in any of this stuff. That was recorded by Tally Sherwood at Tritone Recording. And then the, okay. The music video, the lyric video slash music video, again, that was done by Jax Anderson,

who she makes incredible music on her own and does incredible directing. And so shout out to Jax Anderson. Buddy System season one theme song. Yes. That's right. Yeah. Okay, for the second song, this may be a surprise to you.

This is actually responding to some input that I got from you, but also as I really started thinking about what I, there was a point at which I thought I was gonna do the first three singles were gonna be the first three songs on the album. But then as I, I started thinking, there's multiple things going into this. Cause you're like, who am I thinking about

when I am thinking about the listener? Am I thinking about somebody who's like, I like country music, who's this new kid on the block? Or I'm a fan of Rhett and Link and I don't even like country music, but what's Rhett got to say here? I couldn't decide who I was making that thing for. So I just stuck with themes.

And it just ended up being that we're still very in like classic country on the second song. I went with Flash of Rationality. Okay, okay. As the second song. And we can talk about it after we listen to it. All right, I'm ready. Sometimes I have a flash of rationality But most times I do just what I'm gonna do. It's easy for me

to see what I already see. Ain't got time for inconvenient truths. I'm just a man, I ain't no machine. I do the math the way it suits me.

Don't get me wrong, you're making some sense, but I think I'll go before I am convinced. Sometimes I start thinking... I love that one. I mean, it goes even more country. It's probably the most country. Right down the middle, but I mean, it's got this very vintage country vibe.

Yeah, you know how when you- It's got a Charlie Crockett type retro. Well, when you hear something in your mind, it's one of those things where like, what I was, that's my homage to Merle. You know, that's why there's a trumpet in there. That's my homage to my favorite era You know, that's why there's a trumpet in there. That's my homage to my favorite era and your favorite era of Merle,

late 70s, early 80s when he was bringing in jazz. Yeah. And of course, once I put my spin on it, it's gonna be, it ends up in a different place. So you might have to be told that that's the reference. But the reason I did, I put that song there is again, I wanna be like, hey, we, hey, this is a country album. It's the shortest song on the album,

it's under three minutes, it's the only one that's under three minutes. And so I kinda wanna be like, all right, from a streaming perspective, it's like, I'm into this album, I get to that second song. But from a thematic standpoint, it's kinda saying, listen, first song, I told you, you don't have to agree with me.

And in the second song, I'm telling you, I also don't know what I'm talking about. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's self-deprecating. I'm like, I don't think I got something incredible to say. I don't think I've got some incredible insights into this. I think that I'm smarter than I actually am. I buy a lot of books, I don't finish reading them.

Sometimes I think straight about this stuff. A lot of times I don't. I'm just being honest with you. This isn't some treatise that you're supposed to like be aligned with what's going on here. I'm just guessing it the same way that you are. You know, it's kind of the thematic message. And that's why I wanted it to be at this point.

And that trumpet. Yeah, I mean, it is a surprise first time you hear it. Like, I mean, I heard it a lot later in the album before. It was like maybe four from the end when I heard it and I was like, oh, you gotta move this up. Especially when that trumpet came in. It's like, oh, you give people this surprise. Well, I've got a funny story about the trumpet.

So I knew from the beginning that I wanted a trumpet. And the way that I indicated that I want a trumpet is when I sent Derek the demo, which is just me playing a guitar and singing, I just got to that part of the song and I just did a mouth trumpet. Yeah, as you would, I guess. Nothing like a good mouth trumpet.

And he told me, he was like, hey, as trumpet players, it's tough. He's like, we can get guitarists all day, but trumpet brass players, they're harder to get, they're more expensive, whatever. And I was like, really? Okay. And you knew you wanted trumpet, not sax, because I mean, Merle, he traveled with a sax player,

not a trumpet player. But he had it. He had some trumpet solos. And more like the Spanish, you know, influence songs actually. I was hearing trumpet more than I was hearing sax the Spanish, you know, influence songs, actually. I was hearing trumpet more than I was hearing sax. Like, you know, like muffled, like put the thing on the end of it, whatever.

Yeah, it definitely makes sense. So then we actually talked to, I talked to Ward, our friend Ward Roberts. Yeah. Who, you know, he's actually pretty connected in the music world and his dad's like a jazz player. So I was like, Ward, Trombone. We can't find any, and he was like, you know, he's actually pretty connected in the music world and his dad's like a jazz player. So I was like, Ward, we can't find any, and he was like, I know, and he sends me like a list.

And Chris Batista was the first person that we contacted and he was down to do the project. And he was like, what do you want me to play? I said, well, I've already done a mouth trumpet of the melody and I was like, you can play that and then play some other stuff. And then at the end of the day, we just all liked just him doing exactly what I did

with the mouth trumpet. So you got him to play a mouth trumpet. That sounded like a real trumpet to me. I'm gonna play you the demo. This is the only demo I'm gonna play because I want you to hear the final songs and I don't wanna be here forever, but I thought this was funny enough.

You don't wanna be here forever? To where thought this was funny enough. You don't wanna be here forever? Where you gotta be? To play you the demo. And you can also see, I'll play a little bit of the song to see just how, what I do ain't as good as what we do collectively once it gets in the hands of a producer. I'm just a man, I ain't no machine. I do the math the way it suits me

Don't get me wrong, you're making some sense But I think I'll go before I am convinced Sometimes I start to think I might be pretty smart Then I up and meet somebody who really is I put a lot of books in my cart But I usually don't have the heart To keep on reading if I think I got the gist I know just enough

About enough stuff To not when you Bring something up Talking out of my ass Is my MO I'm trying to learn To say I don't know. Yeah, he did better than you, man.

His mouth trumpet's a lot better. He made that sound awesome. And then he added the little. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a little ending. Yeah, so. Okay. That's Flash of Rationality. I mean, the melody was intact, though. It's like, you know. He played the same thing.

I'm talking about your singing melody. Oh yeah, that one. And this is the second to last song written, by the way, The Flash of Rationality. Okay. Because I wanted that theme of like, I started realizing that as you get into the album, I'm flirting with, the whole thing is flirting

with self-importance and self-indulgence, but I just wanted to remind you that, hey, I don't think I'm some smart ass. I am a smart ass. I'm more of a smart ass than a smart guy. So just wanted to remind you. Yeah, I appreciate you moving it to a disclaimer placement in your album

instead of burying it. Yeah, right. And also the fact that, it's one of my favorite songs on the album. Yeah, it's a good vibe. Yeah. You can walk down the street that it's one of my favorite songs on the album. Yeah, it's a good vibe. Yeah. You can walk down the street to it. Yeah.

You can walk back the other way down the street to it. Third song is the third single that just came out a week before the album dropped, "'Give a Damn." Okay, yes. So I put this one early in the mix as well and it's pretty big departure, let's listen. Ain't it funny how some guys who live

well before your time make you think what you think God thinks about wine The kind of thing will draw you in if you are like me Why live for the here and now when you've got eternity? They say a life unexamined Is a life that's not worth living But I'm pretty sure I've grayed my beard With all these bucks I've given I can't help but dim

But damn, but damn Sometimes I wish I didn't First time I heard of the great beyond I was surely smitten I could be one of the chosen few Be on the front lines I've got something in my pocket That'll give sight to the blind Woo!

Yeah, that's a good one, man. Yeah, I had already heard Believe Me a lot earlier. I heard the first two singles. Really early. So by the time I listened to the album, this is the one that was like, let's see, we were on a plane. We were getting on a plane. You were listening to the see, we were on a plane. We were getting on a plane.

You were listening to the album, we were in the airport. Yeah, it was one of those things where I had to, I had to leave my phone off airport mode, airplane mode, even though we were taking off, because I was trying to get the last song finished. And I'm like, man, what's gonna happen? Somebody gonna come up to me and like kick me off this plane?

Yeah, they throw you right out the door. I just had to, you know, I had to get started to finish but then my first, you know, I leaned over to you. You happened to be there. It was such a coincidence. And I was like, that was the give a damn. Now I was like, give a damn. Oh, that's the one right there. That's my, I mean, listen to it again here. I'll tell

you what's my favorite, but that was like the first one I wanted to talk about. So let's talk about it. I mean, the guitar hook right off the bat. Did you do mouth guitar for that? Nope. See that's the thing. Was that, my thing was that was, my guess is that was part of the solo and then you retroactively moved the second half of the solo to be the intro, but am I getting too in the weeds here?

Well, actually I don't know exactly, I don't know what that process was exactly because obviously, this is the one demo that when I sent it over, I added, I'm recording Logic and then Derek is a Pro Tools guy, but I did a beat. I was like, this is a rock song. This is like, in my mind, like a Avett Brothers rock song

because you've got that kind of like. Now, but they don't do lead guitar in the same way. But that's what I was hearing. Usually. And so. He's got that banjo in it. So I dropped a beat in there so that, to really, so I could play with the groove

and it gives me the energy that I need to sing the demo. It's the only song that I did that on. Okay. And then, and I was just like, listen, I want, there's a couple of songs where I was like, I want Alex to let loose on this because we need, we need something powerful and hooky on this. And you know, typically Derek would send me something

and give me a couple of options. This, he sent over and I was like, that's it. That's what, that's that hook that it needed. Oh yeah, and it's very, I mean, it's interesting that you said it was rock because it did not turn out that way, I mean, it's quite a jaunt to use the word that you used in the first song. Well, folk rock.

Yeah, okay. A-Wrek Brothers, if you go to the Wiki, it doesn't say they're a country band, it doesn't say they're a bluegrass band, it says they're a folk rock band. But the- You know, and I think this is a folk rock song. The specific, like the chicken picking of that intro.

Reep a dick a doon. It was, actually that was very Merle to me, but I'm talking more 60s, which I liked. I don't know if you even felt like that was a connection. To me- But it was like working man's blues. I hear that. I also hear a hint of Lynyrd Skynyrd.

Like in me. Well, it's a slide lead. Yeah, slide guitar. Like it's this. But I mean, you could hear Jackson Brown in that too. So I would, you know, it's like you, but yeah. I'm just saying it's interesting how what you hear. I'll take a little Skynyrd.

I mean, when you add that banjo and then you add a bunch of fucks given, I mean. This is the explicit lyric song. Does it have, is it gonna have an E on? Yeah, when I, when I. Oh yeah, you're playing the Mumford & Sons card. When I uploaded the song. There's an explicit track on this,

this Mumford & Sons album, I have to give it a listen. It doesn't mean as much as it used to. No it doesn't. It doesn't mean as much as it used to. No, it doesn't. It doesn't mean as much as it used to. And also I've noticed that like certain artists in this genre who, like if Father John Misty says the F word in a song, he doesn't put explicit lyrics on it.

Interesting. I was like, well, I'm gonna do it. Fuck it, I'm gonna do it. One last thing about the production, the gang vocals. Like I just, yeah, it just felt like it was, it was such a relief when that showed up, when it just felt like- A relief?

Yeah, cause it just, I was like, oh, that's where this needed to go, you know? In a good way. Yeah, and that's just me and Derek standing in his studio, 12 feet from the mic, just repeat it. Just me and you have done gang vocals a hundred times where we try to do multiple voices and stuff. Did you do any Muppet voices?

I didn't hear any Muppet voices. I said, I'm not gonna do the high voice because that makes it sound like the Muppets. I was like, that's one thing that I've learned from me and Link. Yeah, it was more, you know, friends in low places. People at a bar. Kind of a vibe. Yeah, bar sing along.

Yeah, it's definitely, it definitely, that sealed the deal for me between the guitar at the opening and then the gang vocals at the end. But this song, I mean, it's about evangelism, right? Yeah. Because you talk about, you can be an evangelist of anything.

It's just that we're very steeped in a church that had the label because it was so key to our belief. And as I've talked about a lot of times, my personality is evangelistic. I like to persuade people. And I don't necessarily like that about myself. And this is a song about, man, I can't help but give a damn, but sometimes I wish I didn't.

You know, it doesn't make your life easier when you like to change people's minds. When you first heard about the great beyond, you were smitten. I think there's something about people who feel like there's gotta be some purpose. They're naturally drawn to religion and to really, when they're involved in a religion,

to really go for it. Like I became a missionary because I thought that this is the most important thing in the world. Like this is so much more important than every other earthly thing that how do I go all in? Well, you'd do it full time. And so that's why I became a missionary. And so-

And then what, okay, go ahead. I have another question. And then what, okay, go ahead. I have another question. And then so what? Yeah, but then when you switch teams, you become an evangelist for that team. Well, the second time you say it, it's not the great beyond, it's- The first time I saw someone's eyes.

Someone's eyes light up. So is that like catching the bug of converting somebody? Yeah, yeah, yeah, like if I can sit down and talk to you, like if you're a conservative Christian and I can have a conversation with you and make you question some fundamental things and it seems like a light bulb goes off, there's something incredibly rewarding about that.

It's the same part of your brain that lights up when you're evangelizing someone and they come to Christ. You think that you're doing it and you might be doing it out of love and belief that this person's soul is being saved, but it's an incredibly personally rewarding. If you were to scan somebody's brain who was doing evangelism and someone was converting,

the serotonin, whatever the brain chemical is, you would be getting that reward. You would be getting the reward that you get from, you know, winning at a game. Dopamine, you know, there's a dopamine rush. Okay. So, and that is in my personality. You get the dopamine molecule.

So when I go to the other team, I, and again, the music video for this is out. The music video for this is currently not been finished being made, it's an animated music video from- You're telling the future. From Micah Buzan, who is this incredible animator who made the music video. And this is, you know, the song is a departure musically.

And so the visual is very much a departure and it's kind of symbolizing this in sort of a, as an analogy in a different world kind of thing. But the whole point just being that, again, the reason this is the third song is multi-purpose. Number one, it's like, hey, this is another place that we're going on this album. It's not just country.

We're getting into some different stuff that is broadly country, but this Americana, folk rock, whatever you want to call it. But thematically, it's like, hey, I just told you that I'm not, don't take me seriously, because I'm not taking myself as seriously as I might seem sometimes, but also, hey, I don't even like the fact that I wanna change your mind.

I don't even like that about myself. It's making me age more quickly. But I'm just, you know, I'm processing it through music. The gray in your beard, it started under the ears almost. And in the middle.. And in the middle. And now in the middle. Yeah. And that's, you know, there's multiple reasons for that.

Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers. Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. So this section of the album, three songs. Okay. Where now that I've sort of thematically sort of tried to position myself a little bit as like, this is how I want you to kind of take

what's about to come out, before I start preaching at you, because I am gonna preach at you before the end of the album. Now I'm directing my process towards people I love, starting with my parents, then going to my wife, and then going to my kids. Because spiritual deconstruction, which is an overused term, but you know what I'm talking about,

basically moving away from traditional beliefs or reorganizing the way you think about this, reorienting yourself, and in my case, deconverting. It's very complicated for the people that you love, especially if they are still in that faith, right? And so this is a song that was written as I process the way that I feel towards my parents and my parents feel towards me. It's a song that was written as I process the way that I feel towards my parents and my parents feel towards me.

It's called Sorry. I never set out to do something to disappoint you Approval was sort of my thing Took your book and made it mine Never colored outside the line And made my own peace with the king But then the integrity You'd pour deep inside of me Started to burn a hole in my heart

I grabbed on that scarlet thread And pulled till there was nothing left And then my whole world fell apart You did nothing wrong So why do I feel like I need to say sorry in a song? What's the answer? Why do you feel like you need to say sorry in a song? I don't know.

I don't have the answer. I think this is something that anybody in this similar situation, like you love and respect your parents, you were a good kid, you know that this is a disappointment to them. In spite of how well your life has gone or how well things are with your family

and your career and all this stuff, if you disagree on this fundamental thing, it's a disappointment. You know, I think about my kids and I tried to explain this to Locke to kind of get him to understand the dynamic here. Even though my parents really, really love me, because I have deconverted and publicly deconverted,

it's kind of a double whammy. Not only am I no longer a Christian, but I'm this public figure who talks about it. You know the world that we come from and you know how those kids are seen, right? You know how people see me and that impacts them. And the thing that I'm trying to say in this song as well is that like, well, to finish that thought,

I was like, Locke, if, you know, we've kind of raised you according to a certain worldview, it's a much more permeable worldview than the one that I was given. I'm not telling you exactly what to think, but there are certain values and there are certain things that we hold, you know, leading with love and being kind of the main value.

And I was like, if you were to like go off and become some guy who was like contrary to this, in some way, there's multiple ways that you could do that, like that would be difficult for me. But multiply that times 10 when I would become worried about your eternal destiny. That's what my parents lived with. And that's what the parents of many people

who've deconstructed and deconverted live with. Thankfully, we still have a great relationship and we love each other and love trumps everything else. The love is stronger than the faith, which that's what Jesus himself said, right? Faith, hope, and love, the greatest of these is love. If you lose the love, you've lost the plot. So, but I mean, that doesn't, I feel bad.

Like the idea of my mom crying about me. Yeah. In my eternal destiny, that hurts. Yeah, it hurts you because it hurts her. Yeah. You know, you broke their hearts. Yeah. And you didn't do anything wrong,

but you certainly don't, you know, the signup sheet to break your parents' hearts is not something that people are lining up for. And you know, especially with the type of relationship that you have, you not only had, but have with them that like, yeah, so you're able to say you did nothing wrong. And what I mean by that. For you to say, they've done, you know,

you've done, they've done nothing wrong either. The reason I say they've done nothing wrong either. The reason I say they've done nothing wrong is because, again, I know what it's like to be an evangelical Christian. And when your kids depart, not only do you, like, it's built into that community that you become responsible for it. The Bible basically implies that in a couple of places that like your kids outcome, I mean, it's a gray area

for sure, there's ways to interpret it and get around it. But like, regardless of what the Bible says, the evangelical community blames parents for what their kids end up doing. And so that's a feeling, it's like, you didn't do anything wrong. Like that's when I talk about the fact that, that's why I did that Instagram post.

Like you guys taught me the gospel. I understand what the gospel means. I understand grace by faith. I'm not legalistic. You guys were never legalistic. That's not, I didn't miss it the boat in that way. I mean, it's, yeah, it kind of makes me think. You didn't do anything wrong.

And it's not, parents get a bad rap across the board. You know, it's like, why is so and so guilty of this crime or now in prison? It's like, well, how did their parents fail them, you know? Well, and I'll go a step further and say, not only did they not do anything wrong, they did a lot of things right. And this is a very difficult thing that I'm saying

in this song that I can't, you know, I haven't- The integrity that they gave you turned, burned a hole in your heart. My parents' concern with truth, especially my dad, because he thinks a lot like me, my dad became a Christian in his early 30s. So a later life conversion, right? So it was a very strong conversion

that was immediately like impacted him in so many different ways. And my mom as well, they both became Christians at the same time. And his concern, his lifelong concern with truth and putting truth above everything else, my personality is exactly the same way. And the thing that I want to be able to say is that,

hey, the same thing that got you to suddenly wake up in your early 30s and realize that life has got to be about more than just going through the motions. Like there's gotta be more to this life. And that led you to making a profession of faith in Christ that was truly life-changing, I believe. That same instinct is what brought me to the conclusions that I came to.

So it's actually what you did right, ironically, to make me really concerned about truth and like, hey, if this is the most important thing, I wanna understand, is it really true? And I came to my conclusion that I am at right now, I always leave room, I say right now, because I leave a lot of things open, is that it's not true, fundamentally, it's not true.

Christianity is not true. If I thought that it was true, I would still be a part of it. I don't think that it's true. I think that there's a lot of things about it that you can't know. And so, but what I'm saying is like, even though I made a lot of these decisions

because of the good things that you passed along, I know it still deeply disappoints you. And I'm sorry about that. So the part of like, why do I feel like I need to say I'm sorry, like, yeah, I think that, I know that resonates, that totally makes sense. But let's talk about the in a song part. Why do I feel like I need to say I'm sorry in a song?

You know, are there certain things that you're saying in this song that you couldn't say to their face? I think that applies to this song and many other ones. It's just not, I don't talk this way to people directly. You know, even the next couple of songs we'll listen to, it's the same thing. It's like, I can say it a lot better in a song than I can just sitting down and saying it to you.

Specifically when my parents is complicated by the fact that it's so emotional. Yeah. And I can't have a real conversation about this, you know, without, especially my mom, like she's heartbroken, right? So it's, we just don't talk about this stuff directly. We talk about the things that moms and sons talk about,

about life and what are the kids doing and that kind of thing. And maybe we will get where we can talk more directly about this stuff, but it's too hurtful. Yeah, because it's, I mean, you say in the song that we're probably not gonna change each other's minds. Yeah. Right? Yeah. because it's, I mean, there's, I mean, you say in the song that like neither, we're probably not gonna change each other's minds. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. So then you're left with just kind of, it becomes this emotional thing that it, you know, it still may be really raw. Yeah, yeah. So, did you feel afraid to even to put the song out there? Or did you, or is this,

like what do you, are there hopes attached to it in terms of how you can process it in that relationship? Or is that none of the listeners' business? Yeah, I would say that. I don't know, I don't know. Yeah. I think a lot of these songs are just as much for,

the reason I didn't just write this song and send it to my parents and I made it a public thing is because I think this will resonate. This is happening. This is a worldwide cultural movement of people moving out of these types of belief systems that their parents hold very sacred and it's difficult. And there's no solution in this other than like, hey, I'm just identifying with the emotion

that this stirs in people. I think it's absolutely beautiful song in the way that it resonates even beyond the context of changing your religious beliefs. And I think we've talked about this before. It's just your relationship with your parent, parents, guardians, like the people who, people who are older than you as you grow up

and you become an adult yourself, it's like the nature of our relationships change. And sometimes if they don't, that's weirder than if they do. But the changes that you go through and that people who love you and were there for you your whole life can't, they're making different decisions, they're landing in a different place, it's a scary thing to navigate a relationship

where you have a fundamental disagreement. You talk about issues of identity, you know, that whether it could still be religious, it could be, you know, relational, sexual, whatever the case may be, there's so much that you have to navigate. It's just, I think it's your story. And I think that it will resonate with other people's stories in a way that it just kinda,

it sprouts wings and that's why I think this is a beautiful song. Even if you're just doing the spiritual exploration, I think it's a great album. But this is a standout because it's so relatable, sadly, to so many people. And the irony is, is that, yeah, you don't have a lot of the baggage from your parents.

I mean, we all have baggage, but like you have- But it's a lot worse for a lot of people. You have an active relationship where like, you still wanna spend time together at holidays and you care about each other and it's not, a wall has not been built up. You still have a relationship. Yeah, and that's, and just, you know, listen,

I give them a lot of credit for that. Yeah. Because in the system that they're in, it would not be, there are certain biblical passages that you could decide you were gonna follow that would mean you would cut off a relationship, just to be honest with you. And they're choosing love.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that this wasn't deeply emotional and difficult for you and for them. Yeah. It's like kind of, you know, it's under a best case scenario that it happened and you're still illustrating the depth with which like, there's parts that you can only express in certain ways and like you're not able to get into it still.

It's like, I just think about the people who's everything else, you know, to add onto it. So I think it's a big one, man. And I wanted to put it there because you know, that's one of my favorite songs on the album. I just love the way that one came together and to kind of start that section.

Then of course the next song is the second single, which is me writing a song to my wife. It's called Where We're Going. I picked up on it first thing You weren't like the ones I'd known Might have been from the same place But coming from somewhere all your own A few hours on a wooden bench That's all it took to do me in

Knew then how to make it quick Before I made us fall into sin Said I don't know where we're going But I know I want you to go with me Don't care much about the destination As long as you're there, that's where I wanna be Talking took a different tone Started to

You know it's amazing for a song that is so sweet to be about going through so much difficulty. You know? Cause it is, I mean, especially when you throw that like classic country, and I don't mean in terms of time, I mean just like, just the way that, you know, the sweetness of a sweet country song, especially when you go to that, that bridge at the end or whatever you call it, where it's like, now I'm gonna put this all in perspective.

It's like you followed this template, which is like, I'm telling you a story about a relationship, you can see the music video in your head. Typically, the country music singer would be singing. And you see the couple. You see the couple and it wouldn't be them, but you did the right thing. You put yourself and Jessie in the video.

Right, yeah, so that was, if you didn't know, that was Jesse singing. Yeah, and Ben Eck here, who's been at Mythical for almost a decade, you know, I wanted this whole thing to be outside of Mythical, but he was so excited when he heard about the project, he was like, hey, whatever I can do to help, I just wanna be a part of it.

And so we collaborated on the video and he was like, hey, whatever I can do to help, I just wanna be a part of it. And so we collaborated on the video and he brought it to life. But yeah, getting Jessie to sing, again, I wrote this song for her for Valentine's Day two years ago, or 2021. And that was back before this album was a thing. It was before I even knew that I was making an album really. And that it was, or that it was a country album, right?

So this song wasn't even conceptualized as a country song the first time I wrote it. You couldn't help yourself though. It was- Yeah, I remember you talked about singing this song to her on the podcast. You alluded to that. So yeah, this is the first song to her on the podcast. You alluded to that. So yeah, this is the first song you wrote for the album.

You didn't even know it. Well, it's not the first song I wrote because I was just writing songs as a process. The first song I wrote is the last song on the album. And I actually had, this may be the second song that I wrote. Okay. But again, there was a number of songs there

in the middle that were, I didn't know I was making an album, just writing music and like recording demos. But you're, I mean, we've talked about it a lot when we talk about the deconstruction, in the deconstruction episodes, but I mean, it just, it brings it into sharp focus how when your relationship is built so strongly on the rock of Christ. it brings it into sharp focus how when your relationship is built so strongly on the rock of Christ, right?

That whenever you decide to move your home base somewhere else, that is a scary prospect. And if you both don't make that move together, and again, we didn't make the move at the same time. You know, I kind of moved first, and then Jessie was obviously scared, resistant, crying. That's what I talk about in the song. It's just like when I started having these,

like, this is what I'm thinking. I really didn't want to tell you about this because I know how much it'll upset you. She would just cry, you know, it was tough. It's one of the reasons it was such a long and lengthy process. But we eventually got to where we're not in exactly the same place spiritually, but where it isn't like

she wants me to be anywhere or I want her to be anywhere. We both are like, we're untethered from orthodoxy, frankly, and, but there's so many couples where that's not the case. You're in very different places fundamentally. And not only is that just intrinsically difficult, but you've been told, if you're from a conservative evangelical background, that you cannot be unequally yoked, that it doesn't work.

And you're also told that everything that you have in life, every good instinct that you have comes from God, comes from the spirit of God, and everything bad comes from you. Again, this is, I'm not speaking for all evangelicals, but this is sort of the perspective that I had. All your good instincts are from God, all your good instincts are from God, all your bad instincts are from you.

And what that means is that the moment that you begin thinking that this God thing may not make sense in the same way, you're just naturally programmed to think that only bad is now left. And now what are we gonna base this marriage on? Love? I thought we had to base it on Jesus first.

So this is an example of some of the things we were warned about turned out to be pretty good. You know, there was a lot of trepidation. Like I definitely relate with me and Christy and our spiritual journeys, like the trepidation of everything that you realize you believed if it wasn't, I mean, it was overtly taught in a lot of ways, like you're talking about the unequally yoked thing,

but, and just how it permeates. Yeah, everything you don't even know you believe is, you know, you can feel it as fear before you can state it logically. And when you're in a deconstruction process, it's like, yeah, you're in this state of fear a lot of times and you can't articulate it. But to get through that with anything that you get through

as a couple and if you do come out stronger on the other side, then you can say, oh, wow, there's part, this is, maybe it was worth it, right? Can't you say that? I think that when you strip away the ideology that was holding you together, and it really becomes about just love

and this commitment. And I'm not, again, I know I give a lot of these disclaimers. I'm not saying that people who are Christians who are in a relationship that it is all about, like it isn't about love. It's just about their ideology. The thing I would say that I would challenge Christians on

is I actually think that, lot of guys in Christian circles, this is what you hear. They're like, man, if I wasn't a Christian, I'd be cheating on my wife. This is a very common sentiment. And I'm like, dude, that's some fucked up shit, man. Like think about what you just said.. Like think about what you just said. Yeah.

Think about what you just said. What if the reason you don't cheat on your wife is because you love her? Yeah. How about, and here's what I would say. I think the reason, because here's the deal. Infidelity happens a whole lot with inside and outside of the church.

It seems like that commitment actually doesn't play much of a role. And so if you are faithful, I think it actually means that you're faithful. You don't have to constantly give credit to some external source for every good thing you do. Maybe you're faithful because you have the ability to be faithful in yourself.

And so that is an example of like, oh, this relationship that is, listen, I'm not perfect. Jessie's not perfect. I'm not saying that it's always gonna be great. It has continually gotten better over the years for us as we've grown together. But who knows what challenges we'll meet, you know?

But when the rubber meets the road, I want our relationship to be based on mutual love and respect and a commitment that is independent of our worldview and ideology. And I think that that's actually the case in most relationships, even the ones where the ideology is present. What do you mean by more than a savior, we needed help?

Because I think from the, I don't know, that's more of a head scratcher. What I meant by that is, in the evangelical circles that we ran around in, you get a lot of help from a spiritual perspective, right? Like, and even when you go to therapy or you go to couples counseling, it's always run through this very specific biblical grid.

And it's just like, if your relationship with Christ is intact and flourishing, then everything else in your life will be okay. It's kind of the implication, right? And I think there are some times when you just need help. You just actually need somebody to help you navigate your relationship, navigate your own emotional and mental wellbeing.

You know, it's funny, because I know Christians who prefer for their therapist to not be a Christian because they don't want it run through this biblical grid, which a lot of times is more hurtful than helpful. So I think that the point there is that like, hey, it isn't just about getting saved and having this savior, the saving knowledge of Christ.

It's like, no, like couples need help. They just don't need to be right with God. They need to figure the shit out. They need to figure out how to navigate a relationship. And I think what we needed each individually in our own circumstances and situations, but also as a couple, like we needed to work on us apart from just getting our worldview straightened out.

Like that isn't, that's not, it's just not the case. It's just not true that if you get the right belief, you know, so much of conservative evangelical Christianity is about believing the right things. You go to church on Sunday and what do they talk about? Well, hold on now, we're not to the preachy songs yet. You're getting there. So, and that's our experience is that,

hey, when we actually started thinking about our relationship and thinking about each other rather than God, things got better. What's next? This is the third in this three song section to people I love and this is the song that I wrote for my boys. Okay, buckle up.

It's called Creakin' Back. piano plays softly He held you up before God and man Swore to raise you according to a plan Then the blueprint faded to grey Still the light that I want for you Still the light that I think is true Is just now the path they've Quite so straight The secret I probably should not tell is that I still feel like a kid myself.

Been in over my head since we brought you home. Biggest thing that I've learned is what I don't know. But I'm your dad. I know that. And I love you to the creek and back. Another tearjerker, come on now. So those three together, you just want everybody to cry. Yeah.

Now, yeah, it's got wings, man. Like I said, just like I was talking about before, you know, any parent's gonna say, oh God, I know exactly what that feels like to just, should I say that I am, I'm clueless, I'm just as clueless. I'm just as clueless as you but in a different way. You know? It's extremely powerful to put that out there.

I know it's gonna resonate with people and the piano doesn't hurt. Yeah, I wanted to do, I wanted to do a piano song and it's not me playing the piano. I know that I learned how to play the piano for a tour we did, but that's a real piano player, Eden Dover.

And of course I wrote it on guitar, but I was hearing it as piano. And then, and also it's kind of interesting because this is the kind of music that like, it's a little more, you know, it's piano based. So you're kind of getting into, you know, it's not like a Billy Joel or a, you know, Elton John song, but it's the most like that

of anything on the album, which is kind of like music that we've connected, I've connected with the boys over. But yeah, exactly. This is just, I had written those two songs to, song to my parents, song to my wife, and I was like, I think that when you have a fundamental shift in worldview, like again, held you up before God and man, the first, this is, that's the dedication, which incidentally is a piece of video

in the home video footage in the Where We're Going music video. Oh wow. Is meet us up there in front of the church with Locke. Yeah. And so. Which is a ceremony, arguably just as much if not more about the parents than it is about the kids.

It's basically saying, you get up in front of everybody and you say, I promise to raise this kid. You respond to a series of questions. I'm raising this kid, you know, according to the gospel and to raise them to serve Jesus and to make a decision. Yeah, I mean, in my church, my kids were actually baptized and there was an added thing of like- Well that didn't save them, Link!

That if they, you know, clinging to this promise that's open to interpretation that's like, okay, they are already saved as long as everybody does their job? Well, you're kind of claiming them for Christ, you know. To me, this song is more powerful knowing at what stage of fatherhood you wrote it because I think there's a lot of artists that will have a child and then of course,

they're gonna start writing songs about their baby. There's so many songs, like an endless playlist of this artist that you know had their first baby and then they had to write a song about it. Sturgill's whole album, Sailor's Guide to the Universe or whatever it is, it's like it's all based on him having a kid. I mean, Childish Gambino.

I mean, but it's, you're looking at this baby and you're like, ever since the day I brought you home, I've been scared shitless, you know? So for you to say that and you know, Locke is off at college. Thank God. And Shepherd's not as far behind as it seems like. You know, so it's- Meaning that it happened.

I don't mean, I'm thankful he's gone. I'm saying that like he got there. So you see my point, right? I mean, it's strangely comforting as a parent to hear this knowing that you've got kids that are on the cusp of adulthood. Well, I think it goes back to what we've talked about as we talk about relating to our kids

that it's much less about the things that you say and much more about the things that you do. And, you know, I think modeling cluelessness to my children. That's a harsh way to put it, but modeling humility or whatever, however you want to say it. Like, hey man, everything that we've done

is been motivated by love, but it's all guesswork. And it's the best guess that we have at the time. And I know for a fact that you're going to be processing the mistakes that I've made forever. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Hopefully, cause this, I mean, the song is for them first, right?

Hopefully just hearing that is helpful to them. I'm glad. So you don't end up with a bunch of resentment. A parent who can't admit that they made a bunch of mistakes, that is much more trauma inducing than the mistakes sometimes.

Yeah, I mean, it definitely piles it on. I'm glad that you didn't go like cute country and then change I love you to the creek and back to in the final chorus saying, I love you with my creek and back. Like I'm so old, my back sounds like a door. That would have been a bad mistake. It's not too late.

It's not too late. It's not too late. It is too late. Where are we going? Now, well, where we're going is, that was the song I wrote to Jessie. You said, where are we going? Oh. That's a song title.

What song is next? Well, I do, before we move on, I wanna say, so obviously that was Jessie singing along with that song as well. So Jessie sings on three songs. She's the mother of those children. And so she did an amazing job there. And thanks to, there's, you know,

we wanted to do the cello and the violin, the strings were like a last minute addition because we had just an electric bass in there that Derek had played. And I was like, I'm hearing something else. And then I heard a song, I was listening to some song and it was piano and cello. I was like, I'm hearing something else. And then I heard a song, I was listening to some song and it was piano and cello. I was like, that's what we need.

So we got Dave Egger to play cello and Lisa Faco to play violin. So thank you for that, making that song what it is. Wherever you're going, you better believe American Express will be right there with you. Heading for adventure? We'll help you breeze through security. Meeting friends a world away?

You can use your travel credit. Squeezing every drop out of the last day? How about a 4 p.m. late checkout? Just need a nice place to settle in? Enjoy your room upgrade. Wherever you go, we'll go together. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamx.

Benefits vary by card. Terms apply. Now we're getting back into, this song is called Only Thing. And this is again, sort of back to the processing because I'm about to move into a place where I'm not really singing to individuals, but I'm more kind of in my own head,

and then finally directing some things out to the church. Got a couple of songs that are directed at the church towards the end, but this is back to like processing. Okay. Only thing. about where we came from Convince you over coffee that Jesus was God's son Take that empty feeling

that everybody feels And use it against you till you are on your heels I was sure as sure can be I was working for eternity There was hell to pay If you saw it another way Now the only thing I'm certain of

Is that I ain't certain about much It's easy to be right It's not so easy to choose love Sometimes I miss that feeling of Having it figured out. Have to fight that temptation to know what life's all about. Mmm. Mmm.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh so easy to choose love. So it's like, that's the struggle, right? That, I mean, that's what, you're speaking from experience here. Yeah. This one is just kinda that, I think that it's very difficult when you're a Christian, and I would say when you adhere to any particular religious philosophy and you really adhere to it,

like you're pretty sure that you're right about it, right? Like being right about it is kind of important. There's a lot at stake. Specifically, I mean, believing the creed, believing the right thing about Jesus is the ticket to heaven, right? I mean, ultimately when you break it down,

you gotta think and believe the right, you gotta believe the right thing. And your eternal destiny depends on that. And I think that it's difficult when you're in that situation to envision what it would be like to just not be sure about that. That was one of the scariest things for me as a, when I was transitioning away from Christianity,

which is like, whoa, like this is so crazy to like just accept the fact that you don't have to know what you think about this stuff, that you can be uncertain about this stuff. And it's really hard. It's like, that's why it says in the chorus, it's like, I'm trying to essentially, I'm trying to break the habit of knowing what life's all about, right?

That's a tendency to like, you gotta know what life's all about and you gotta believe it strongly and you've gotta share it and you gotta, and it's difficult to be like, no, I can let go of that. I don't have to know what the ultimate purpose of the universe is. And I believe that anyone who says

that they've got it figured out almost assuredly is wrong. Like the one thing I know is if you say, you know what the secret of the universe is and what the purpose of all this is, whatever your particular take on it, you're basically ruling that out from being the truth because you've come up, you know, you and some system of man has come up with that

from my perspective. I think when, from my experience, when love takes a close second, like even if it's a razor edge, like a thin slice just below truth, it's a problem. It's a problem when you start to relate to people, when you start to try to empathize with people. You know, it's hard to love somebody

when there's a subservience to what you believe to be an absolute truth. And it always felt weird. And that's why for so many years, I would hide like my beliefs and my affiliation with the evangelical church was because I just couldn't stand by the implied judgment that was the headline.

It's like too many people I feared would associate with me with judgment and not love first. Yeah. And I realized that like I related to a lot of people for so much of my life with love being subservient and people can feel that shit. They know it. They know it.

It sticks out like a sore thumb. Oh yeah, and it's like, yeah, I mean, that's one of the big things that finally kind of broke me out of that thinking was like, just like, it's not something to hide, it's something to break away from. Well, interesting, I've been thinking about this exact concept a lot lately.

And the way I've kind of, the way I understand it right now is, if something about your particular ideology or philosophy makes you necessarily think that someone is fundamentally different, right? So if you're a Christian, if you're an evangelical Christian, and what I mean by that is if you believe

that the only way to be in a right relationship with God is through Jesus Christ. And so if you're be in a right relationship with God is through Jesus Christ. And so if you're not in a right relationship with Jesus Christ, you are condemned. You're not really a child of God, right? You're gonna spend eternity in hell. If I believe that about you, even if I love you, I think less of you.

By default, I think that I'm gonna spend eternity with God. And I think that you are not going to spend eternity with God. Sure, it may be because of grace and it may be because of the gospel. I mean, it doesn't make you a bad person to believe that, but the relational dynamic that that creates is that this person who's on the receiving end of that,

judgment is what it is. It is a judgment. It is a determination. Their relationship can only be so deep with you. So if you're a Christian and you think that I'm going to hell, again, you may be, that's your theological opinion. You can't help yourself believe that.

What I'm saying is that I can only have so deep of a relationship with you because there's a fundamental thing that you believe about me that separates us and ultimately results in me being discarded and judged in a way that you're not going to be. And that's just a difficult dynamic that is a result of fundamentalist belief about things.

But the moment you say, hey, this is my take, but I'm not really that certain about it and I'm not prepared to say that you're condemned, the relational possibilities really open up. That's a difficult thing to do though. It's a very difficult thing to do if you hold to a particular theology. What do we have next?

So this is the biggest departure. This is the last song that I wrote. And I wanted there to be what I would call a badass country song. And I'll explain what it means and why it's in this spot on the album after we listen to it. It's called Kill a Man. Today I'm gonna kill a man Gonna squeeze his life out with my bare hands

He's had it come for way too long Only thing he does right is doing wrong You can just say it, man. Just freaking say it. Say it what? This one's about me. I'm gonna kill you. This is me letting you know that I'm gonna kill you. This is a badass blues guitar.

You got some Kenny Wayne Shepard in here. Well, this is the- You got the low notes, you got the high notes. Well here's the thing. This song was never going to be a part of the album. I thought I was done with 10 songs. Then as we kept producing this thing and Alex kept coming through and I was like,

this dude's really talented. Oh yeah, he did awesome. And I was like, I just feel like I've got to write a song that lets him, is this like, hey, hey buddy, I'm taking off the leash. I'm taking off the leash and I just want you to be a badass on the guitar and just do what you can do. Yeah.

And so thematically, I mean, the message is, and I don't wanna, let me just say, I'm not gonna say exactly. There's a principle that was true in my former philosophy as a Christian that is true now as a whatever I am hopeful agnostic, that I think is an important principle in life that I still abide by.

And this song is a sort of an exploration of that concept. Okay. I'll let you figure out exactly what that is. But, and thanks to Jessie for lending her- Operatic vocals. Yeah, you know, she's done that for us before, back in the day, this is, you know, Jessie majored in voice, specifically classical voice.

So we knew, I knew I wanted that middle section to be like kind of a weird departure and there's like some backtracked guitars and stuff, or whatever the term is for reverse. What are the backing vocals that sound like a chant say? Are they words? Which part? It's like a percussive.

Oh, they just say, yeah, yeah. They say, yeah, yeah? Yeah. Okay. All right. Glad we cleared that up. Yeah. It's kind of a, it's a little bit of a,

again, I don't think there's this Jack White song that sounds exactly like this, but you could imagine him having done something like this. Sure, sure. You know, and that's Derek doing that percussion. He just did it like outside of his studio in Burbank, like on his driveway with like, you know. Sounds like you've killed somebody

and you're dragging them to the. Yeah, well it's kinda like you've got somebody and you've got them in shackles and you're taking them to kill them, you know? Oh, that's morbid. You know, you could take it however you want to, but that was what I was thinking. Now we get final three songs.

These two that I just put together, originally I wanted them to be spread out and then I was just like, I've kind of set the stage to, these are my two songs directed at the church. All right. First one is called In Vain. All right. The first one is called In Vain. There's quite a few things

you don't seem to mind. Trying to figure out just where you draw the line. Cause watching people die seems to be fine But God forbid a nipple or a Jesus Christ I sort of understand It took me quite a bit

Before I'd let and hold my God Exit from my lips Maybe that commandment About using the Lord's name Is about a lot more than just What you say So much done in Jesus' name Seems to me to be a goddamn shame

Are you sure the Savior came? So the righteous would all vote the same Tell me who's the one using his name in vain See, I feel like there's gonna be a lot of people, Christians, who are like, Hey, I agree with all that, man. I agree with all that. I think it's difficult though in practice. I mean, I'm just saying from personal experience to go from yes, it's, you know,

go from yes, it's, you know, Jesus teachings and the biblical teaching can be, you know, we want to just boil it down to this actionable stuff where we can check boxes. I know for me, I wanted to be able to check boxes and say, I'm well within bounds. I can feel secure about my approach to life and with rules. And that's not how Jesus talked, right?

And so, and I was taught enough of that to know, to try to counteract it. But I mean, with my tendencies, I tended to really, when you boil it down to rules and even frivolous ones like okay, don't say damn, but definitely don't say goddamn, and like don't say oh my God. It's like it just, it makes it easier to process,

but none of this stuff is that easy to process. It shouldn't be. But as humans, I think at times you just fall back on this reductionist approach. Well, I think it's, I've always been fascinated with how offensive using God's name in vain. God damn, saying God damn is so,

and this is something I tell people from other parts of the world and from other parts of the United States. I'm like, if you get upset about something and you say Jesus Christ, like that is like, oh, like certain evangelical Christians, it's like, it's like a poison, man. It is so offensive to them. And I'm like, so interesting to me

that that is the thing that is so offensive, but there's all this other stuff that is actually offensive that you don't care about. Hey, yeah, I heard it. You listed them out. Nipples. Well. I remember nipples.

And I just, you know, it's just always been fascinating to me. Can I see this music video? This is the one I wanna see. It's just one nipple the whole time, so. Can it sing? It's a singing nipple, yeah. Like where the milk comes out,

it can actually start singing? Yeah, that's, yeah, the nipple part. So I don't know, I just, I wanted to say, cause it's like, you're right. I think there's lots of Christians who would be like, I agree with this, but were you gonna play it for somebody? Cause it says God damn it in a number of times. You know, and again, not all Christians are like this.

A lot of Christians have woken up to the fact that like, hey guys, like cursing and even saying, do you really think that that's what that commandment was about? You think the commandment to not use God's name in vain was about not using God's name as a curse word? You really think that's what that commandment was ever about?

It's so interesting that it's what it became about. But you're totally right. Most reasonable Christians of all stripes will be like, yeah, yeah, I completely agree with this. Like, that's not what the gospel is about. It's not about all these other things. So yeah, again, my, yeah, I think this is,

I think ultimately this is all pretty like soft stuff. It's not, you know, the point of this album was not to condemn, it's just- The Supreme Court case, I mean, that's something that, I think there's a couple places where it starts to hit. Well, and this song was written before the Roe v. Wade, that was overturned. It wasn't in anticipation of that particular case even.

There's always a Supreme Court case that Christians think that God is on the side of an issue and that that's what Jesus would believe. And that's probably the best one is that they just fundamentally believe Jesus would be pro-life, no questions asked. And it's just like, really though? Like you really think that?

Show me the biblical evidence of that. Yeah. So anyway, I think this is, again, it's not like I'm expecting, like if you're a Christian and you're a conservative Christian and you completely fundamentally disagree with me and you've made it to this point in the album, it's like, okay, these songs may be challenging for you.

But again, this wasn't about, hey, this is a message for the church first and foremost. It is, but it's more like when you are deconstructing or deconverting, like there's a lot of things that you're thinking and you're beginning to see things, you're like, man, this was the way that it always was. This is how we thought, we were so offended by this thing, but yet all this other stuff didn't offend us

and that's weird and hypocritical. And you just see it and you wanna talk about it and you wanna say it, you wanna point out the hypocrisy. But this next song, Fruit, is even more specifically about what I see as the hypocrisy in the church. Don't know much about the carpenter He lived in a very different time But most everything that I've heard he say Makes me think we might be reading different lines

There was something about turning the other cheek I can't quite square that with your AR-15 He said, let the little children come to me You just watch as they were torn from their families I don't feel the love They were torn from their families I don't feel the love I don't see the joy But I'm not sure I got the patience to argue anymore I don't mean to be unkind and I'd like to keep the peace

Just looking for the self-control to agree to disagree This one hits hard, man. Where's the love? I don't feel the love. I mean, if This one hits hard, man. Where's the love? I don't feel the love. I mean, if somebody honestly says that, I mean, you just can't, it's undeniable. You know, if somebody doesn't feel loved, you know, what can you say to that?

It's one thing for someone to say, yeah, but I love you. It's like, you know, I just think even on like, in an intimate relationship, have you ever been in a point when you're like, someone you love told you, I don't feel the love. It doesn't, I don't, I'm not feeling that from you. It's like, good luck coming up with a response, you know?

The damage is already done, like the writing's on the wall. And you can try to explain yourself at that point. And I feel like that's, this resonates with me so much because it's, I don't know, I just see it. It's frustrating. And I don't wanna paint with a broad stroke and say like, yeah, this is the problem with the church overall. And like, did you really put words in my mouth?

I think that it's, you know, you give some examples in there when you talk about AR-15, when you talk, you alluded to immigration practices. Yeah. Who's the red letter crowd? Like define that because I think at that point you're talking about infighting within the church. I was like, they can't even-

I'm talking about my perspective, my former self's perspective on progressive Christians, right? I used to be like, so red letter Christians is the thing that is people who identify with the words of Jesus. Cause there are some versions of the Bible where all the words of Jesus are in red and all the rest of the words are just black, right? And so there are people who say I'm a red letter Christian.

And what that means is that the thing that I hold the most sacred and the thing I really take seriously is the words of Jesus. And then everything else is sort of open to interpretation or not as important. Okay. And thinking that way makes you, Jesus didn't condemn a whole lot besides hypocrisy, right?

He didn't go around, he got condemned by the religious zealots because he was hanging out with the people he shouldn't hang out with, right? And he didn't come with a really judgmental tone. He was like, I'm about building relationships, I'm bringing love into the situation. And so it's essentially a way of saying, hey, I used to be like progressive Christians are whack

because they're just not comfortable with the whole truth. They're taking the truth that they're comfortable with that kind of fits into our cultural context and is culturally acceptable. And then they're kind of minimizing or even rejecting the difficult truths that our culture actually needs to hear that are in the Bible.

And I was like, you can't just say, I want this to be true and this is uncomfortable, so I'm not gonna make that, I'm not gonna believe that. I used to look down on them. And now I'm like, those are the people I'm rooting for within the church, is the ones who are saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am prioritizing love over judgment.

I'm prioritizing love over faith even, believing the right thing. Because it's not so much like, you know, cause you might say what you said earlier when you were like, when you say I love you, but it's very difficult. And a Christian might say, yeah, but I love you, but I think that what you're doing is sinful.

Like, I can't not say that. If, you know, I think that what you're doing is sinful. Like, I can't not say that. If, you know, I have to tell you that if I think something you're doing is wrong. I don't think we're talking about that situation. That can get complex, you know? I think what we're talking about is the fact that as a whole, the evangelical church, especially in America, has aligned itself with like the darkest parts

of our nature as a country, right? Like you aligned yourself with Donald Trump. I mean, I did a whole podcast about this. I don't care what the outcome was. I don't care if the Supreme Court case went the way that you wanted it. You aligned yourself with someone who is the least Christ-like politician

to ever have been in power in the United States of America. Full stop, not an exaggeration, not hyperbole. You aligned yourself with the least Christ-like politician to ever have been in power in the history of our country. I don't feel the love. The most reliable indicator for support of Donald Trump in this country is if you are a conservative evangelical Christian.

That is the most reliable indicator. As long as that's true, you guys have lost the plot. You've lost the love. Full stop. That's what this You guys have lost the plot. You've lost the love. Full stop. That's what this song is about. Well, you said full stop. I can't say anything else. You said full stop twice.

Yeah, full stop. Said it three times. Well, we didn't even talk about the fruit illusions. They can get that themselves. Fruit of the li'lusions. Right, yes, fruit of the spirit. There's only one more song. All right, what?

It's called Old Letters. And it is the first song that I wrote of all these songs. Wrote it in 2019. I still remember when we used to talk You never said much, but I knew what you thought. Cause you wrote it down for me long ago. I read your letters to keep from feeling alone. There's not just one thing I could point to That began to push me away from you All I could say is that I changed It was just like you to stay the same Stay the same

So, the first song you wrote is the last one on the album. It makes sense to me that the first song you wrote is a letter to God, unless I'm getting this really wrong. No Link, this is to you. All of his letters to you, this is your letter to him. As you're starting the journey, it seems like that's a good starting place. Like if you were, when you told me

this is what you wrote first, that's why it makes sense to me. It wasn't written as the first of a set of songs. It was just like, oh, I never write about complex emotions. We write comedy songs. This might be the first serious song I've ever written. Well, maybe like back in the day when we were writing like Christian music.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, back in high school. But yeah, it was very much just, I'm processing this thing that is, this is kind of how I think about God. It feels like a breakup. It feels like you think about the relationship that you had and you run things back through your mind

and like, what was I actually thinking? What was going on? But the reason that, you know, this is the last song on the album is, you know, I am committed to being open. Like I have not closed my accounts with reality. I have not closed my accounts with God. I don't, I'm not an atheist.

And the reason that I say I'm not an atheist is because I lean into the idea that there's something else going on here. You know, I don't know what that is. I don't know what the nature of that is. I don't know what the nature of God is. I don't know what the nature of the universe is,

but I don't know what it is. And so therefore I'm not ready to conclude what it is. And it may be that I hadn't got the first time around when I was in a relationship with God, as I would have described it, I had him wrong. I had her wrong. I had it wrong. I had them wrong.

Whatever you want, however you want. And who knows what the future holds, right? If the last 20 years of my life indicate anything, is that the next 20 years could send me in a wildly different direction than I would have ever anticipated. And so the last thing I want to do is close myself off to, if that God out there, in there, around there,

is wants to be in relationship and wants to reveal some kind of truth to me, I'm not going to be the one to stand in the way of that God doing that. And so I leave it open and unresolved. I enjoyed the production technique of like the, the panned vocals, but is there irony in the fact that your processing of God's letters

is like a conversation with yourself? Well, so there's a song, a Jason Isbell song that I love, Chaos Enclosed, I think is the name of it. And he does this technique of basically doubling his voice and the stereo split of the two voices. And I knew I wanted to do a song like this. And I thought that this song was a perfect one to do it because it just represents the possibility.

To me, it's not some, it is interesting that you take it that way, which I'll take that, I'm not taking credit for it, but like, is this just a conversation with myself? This is why this is the only song on the album where I did my own harmony, because I was like, this is so personal that it's like, so there's two melodies

and there's two harmonies and there's two guitars. And it's just like represents the multiple perspectives and how where we go from here is something that is just kind of, it's open. The possibilities are open and I don't know, I'm not trying to go any particular place. Well, I celebrate the fact that this thing exists, is out there, it's a complete project.

I mean, I know with everything that you've been through and how the pandemic in a lot of ways gave you the space to make this possible, there's still a lot of stuff that's going on and more every day. It's like, it's nice that you followed through on this vision and this is out there and it's, you know, it'll outlive you. You mean it's still gonna be on the internet

after I'm dead? Oh yeah, that's great. I mean that you, as a project, I think it's important and I celebrate it. Well, thanks for that and thanks for listening to it with me. I celebrate it. Well, thanks for that. And thanks for listening to it with me.

You know, I think that the most rewarding part so far has been the people who, and again, when I record this- The horrible cover songs? There's only, there's been a lot of great cover songs. There's only two tracks out at the time that I record this, you know, the first two singles. But the most rewarding thing, and again, this is what I said from the beginning,

if one person is like, ah, I relate to this, like you wrote a theme song for my life situation or what I've been through in this relationship, that's been the most rewarding thing, is people giving that feedback and saying that like, this is, you put into words what I've been feeling and thinking and haven't been able to say, you know? And again, I talked about part of the inspiration

for this album being David Bazan, Peter the Lion, and specifically his album, Curse the Branches, which is obviously different musically Cater the Lion and specifically his album, Curse the Branches, which is obviously different musically and different thematically, but it was like a deconstruction album from way back in the day, when I was in the very beginnings of my deconstruction. And it was just so like,

I listened to that album so many times because I was like, man, people don't, I just didn't, there wasn't enough music out there that resonated with specifically this very difficult thing that I was dealing with. So, and more people are doing it. There's more deconstruction. Again, I hate to use the word, it's overused, but it's the best descriptor.

There's more and more music that connects with everybody who's experiencing this stuff. I just wanted to do my part to get it out there. So thanks for listening. Do you happen to have a rec? It's your week. I guess if I have to search deeply, I would say that I recommend that you listen to my album.

Human Overboard is the name of the album. James and the Shame is the name of the artist. That's me. And it is available everywhere you stream music. And I will ask, you know, it's funny, I don't know what it'll be like by the time this comes out, but I see on Spotify, people also like, and everybody who they also like

is like another internet famous person who does music, which I guess it's inevitable that that's what the case is. But I would just say, hey, listen, if this album was your introduction to country or Americana, hey, there's a lot of really good stuff out there. You know, I put together that playlist a while back that was like some of my inspirations.

Listen to that music, not only for your own benefit, because there's a lot of great country music that's out there, but also it'll start to show up that people also like country music. Not Ninja Sex Party. Nothing against Ninja Sex Party, we love those guys, but I don't think that Ninja Sex Party is the greatest entry point into James and the Shane.

No, it's not. So do some listening to train the algorithm, if you don't mind. All right. As always, you can call us, leave us a voicemail. Give us your reactions. We play them at the end of every episode, so stick around for those.

1-88-EAR-POD-1. Hashtag Ear Biscuits. Hi, Rhett and Link. This is Natalie Collin from Ontario. I went on my YouTube music today, and it told me that I have listened to James and the Shame 987 minutes, which is about 16 hours over the course of two songs. Just wanted to let you know that I love the music, and I can't wait for the rest of the album. Thank you so much for putting it out there.

Hey, guys. First of all, love the album. Thank you so much for putting it out there. Hey guys, first of all, love the show. Long time fan. Super stoked to hear your full album. Congrats on it, dude. First three songs were great. Love you guys. Thanks. Bye. Brett, my evening listening to your song, Where We're Going, and bawling my eyes out. I'm 36 years old. My wife is 35. I have two boys, 10 and 8. This past Memorial Day weekend, she had a stroke. And she's been working incredibly hard in rehab to regain the use of her left side and various mental blocks still. Needless to say, this has been a whirlwind and scary last few months. My days are quite long now, keeping everything afloat and moving forward for my boys and for her. And this song just perfectly embodies how much I love my wife and how much I am still just so happy to be with her and look forward

to sharing our lives together no matter what happens along the way. I was just so moved and compelled by this song that I had to share this with you, Rhett. And you know how much your music is impacting people. Thank you both for everything you give to us and everything you share with us.