Earl Stewart on Cars - 04.11.2020 - The Best of Earl Stewart on Cars

Episode Date: April 11, 2020

This is a replay of a previously recorded Earl Stewart on Cars program. Please send in your questions to www.youranonymousfeedback.com. Earl Stewart is the owner of Earl Stewart Toyota in North Palm Beach, Florida, one of the largest Toyota dealerships in the southeastern U.S. He is also a consumer advocate who shares his knowledge spanning 50+ years about the car industry through a weekly newspaper column and radio show. Each week Earl provides his audience with valuable tips that prevent them from "getting ripped off by a car dealer". Earl has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, U.S. News and World Report, Business Week, and other major publications. He has also made numerous appearances on CNN, Fox News, CBS, and other news networks. He is frequently called upon by local and national media to comment on major trends and newsworthy events occurring in today’s rapidly changing auto industry. You can learn more by going to Earl's videos on www.youtube.com/earloncars, subscribing to his Facebook page at www.facebook.com/earloncars, his tweets at www.twitter.com/earloncars, and reading his blog posts at www.earloncars.com. “Disclosure: Earl Stewart is a Toyota dealer and directly and indirectly competes with the subjects of the Mystery Shopping Reports. He honestly and accurately reports the experiences of the shoppers and does not influence their findings. As a matter of fact, based on the results of the many Mystery Shopping Reports he has conducted, there are more dealers on the Recommended Dealer List than on the Not Recommended List he maintains on www.GoodDealerBadDealerList.com”

You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to 772-4976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com And we'll answer it during our next live show. Good morning. I'm Earl Stewart. I welcome you to Earl Stewart on Cars, a live talk show all about how to buy, lease, maintain, or repair your car without being ripped off by a car dealer. With me in the studio is Nancy Stewart, my wife, co-host, and a strong, consumer advocate, especially for our female business. We also have Rick Kearney

an expert on how to keep your car running right. I dare you to ask a question that Rick can't answer about the mechanics or electronics of your car. Also with us as my son, Stu Stewart, our linked to cyberspace through Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and Periscope. Stu is also the

Spymaster director of our mystery shopping report. He dispatches our secret shopper weekly to an unsuspecting South Florida dealership. And now, on with the show. Good morning, everybody. Well, this is the recovering car dealer, Earl, live. You listen to my recorded introduction, and we're ready for another show. Excuse me. Exciting times we're in. Nobody in the world isn't aware of the coronavirus, and we're not going to talk about that today.

It might be a nice relief for a couple hours. We're going to talk about how you can buy, lease, maintain, or repair your car without being ripped off by car dealers. Also, we're going to be answering a lot of questions. It's going to be a busy morning. So stay tuned. I think you're going to get something out of the show. We have a caller holding already. Buddy, keep on holding. You're our first caller. If you just stay on there, we'd like to introduce the folks in the studio and let everybody know, maybe new to the show, who we are. Probably, I believe, right now. We have Nancy Stewart. Nancy hasn't called in yet. She will call in shortly. Nancy is my co-host. Been with me for these 17 years. We've been doing this show. That's right. It's a long

time. We started out as a half an hour show, and we evolved into what we are today. Two hours. We're on from 8 to 10 this morning every Saturday. We have Rick Kearney, who I mentioned earlier, and Rick is one of the most qualified auto technicians. I never know what to call him. Some of you folks call him a mechanic. Sometimes Rick calls himself a grease monkey. I think it's kind of a self-deprecating, but that's okay. He laughs.

But whatever it is, he's a computer scientist, and that's what cars are today, computer on wheels. I know you've got some questions about the operation of a car. I've got questions about my car, and I've been on the business for 50 years. Cars are complex today, and when they break or make noises or, you know, bother you in some way, oftentimes you can't diagnose it yourself. Rick, if you call in, Rick will diagnose that in the audience also in the studio, I should say,

is Stu Stewart, my son. He also runs my dealership, Earl Stewart, Toyota, and I say that because I don't want you to think I'm hiding the fact I'm a car dealer. I am an active car dealer, but this show, is not an infomercial. This show is consumer advocacy to help you and help you find out how you can navigate that minefield of buying and maintaining your car without getting in trouble.

Because car dealers, a lot of them, too many of them, are waiting for you, and it can be a bad experience. Stu is also going to talk to you about our mystery shopping report. And, oh, we do have Nancy on the line now. So I'm going to put Nancy on it, because she's very, special, not just being my co-host and my wife, my partner, but she's a female advocate. So good morning, Nancy. How about telling the folks out there what your specialty is with respect to our female audience? I'd love to. Good morning, everybody, and good morning to everyone in the studio.

Good morning, and I will be back. And I'm here this morning to let all of you know that I hope we're Well, a great distraction for you this morning with everything that's going on. So it's going to be a great show, a great mystery shopping report. And ladies, I have something special for you as a consumer of it. I kind of stay close to the ladies and what's going on out there and hear from a lot of you throughout the week. So I have a few texts to share with Earl Stewart on cars, and we'll get to those later. But ladies, this morning, we have.

$50 for the first two new lady callers. Yes, you're pretty special. And I thank you for helping me build this platform for women. The show certainly has gone in a different direction, and we certainly have accumulated quite a few lady callers. So there you go. And if you would just like to share an opinion, ask us a question, you can do so by texting us at 772-497-653.

zero. So, as I said earlier, it's going to be an exciting show. We've got a great mystery shopping report. We'll get to later on in the show from Southern 4401 Nissan. And Earl, back to you. Okay, Nancy, thank you very much. Let's

talk a little bit about well, we've got to call her. Let's get to Buddy. That's what we ought to do. Are you still holding, buddy? Buddy are you on the line? I am. Good morning. How are you? Great. you doing. Thanks for calling. Good. I've been listening to you for 17 years. Wow. That's a long

time. I'm a geyser. I'm an old geyser. That makes two of us. One thing I have found over time that the car buying process gets nastier and nastier. Why is it so painful? Yeah. You know, we're together on that, buddy. I would think that it was it would improve. I think realistically it has gotten a little bit better but not much. They still have, you'll see from our mystery shopping board later

it's a bad one and you wonder how these dealerships exist today. I have a couple of specific questions. I'm in negotiation now. How much does a car dealer make on a

$40,000 car? That's a great question. And it's It's a complicated question. And if you've been listening to me and you know me, as you do, I'm not tap dancing here. I'm not going to try to give you a smoke and mirror answer. $2,000. The average, there's something called the gross profit, and that is what we mark up the car from our cost and sell it for car dealers, new car dealers. And the average markup, and if you want to include the finance insurance profit,

in there, then you're probably talking around somewhere $1,000. With finance insurance, probably around $2,000. Yeah, $2,000. We separate the finance and insurance. It is only added, it's not really added to the price of the car, but it becomes a cost to you. If you pay cash or you use your own financing, then the average markup is about half of that, which is about $1,000. And then if you look at net profit, because only you get your overhead expenses,

You've got to pay the salesman, a commission. You've got to pay your light bill. You've got to pay for your advertising. All these little expenses that are charged to the new car department bring the actual profit on a new car down to about $400. But that's in a successful dealership. Many dealerships, I'm going to say about half or more, don't make any money in the new car department.

The new car department has become like cell phones. When they first started out, they were, a profit on the cell phone, and later on, the cell phones are practically being given away. I'm not saying cars are being given away, but the bottom line is, buddy, is that the profit on a new car is very, very low. The bad part about that is it could be for buyer A very high and buyer B extremely low. We're talking averages here. An uneducated consumer can come in there and pay a car dealer $5,000 or $10,000 in profit.

A very sophisticated buyer can come in and actually buy the car at cost or actually below cost. And I know that's a lot more than you wanted to hear, but I had to give you a complete honest answer. So if you're negotiating a good deal for yourself, what percentage off the MSRP would it be? Would it be 10% off the MSRP, 15%, what would it be? Buddy, you can't use the MSRP discount criteria unless you are looking at the exact same vehicle and shopping and comparing. If you want to buy a Ford Tourist and you go to Ford Dealer A and he gives you a 10% discount, you've got to go to Ford Dealer B and look at the exact same car and see what discount he'll give you. And be sure that you're looking at the MSRP and not the addendum label or the dealer list.

this price and get at least three or four of those the biggest discount you get on that forward tours will be your best buy the reason i say that is discounts off of cars vary a big truck can have a 25 or 30 percent discount a small car um you know a mini car type of thing could only have a 10 percent discount a full discount over msrp what's the difference between an MSRP and a market value selling price? Market value is a smoke and mirror term invented by car dealers to make you discount the MSRP. The MSRP manufacturers suggested retail price, also known as the Monroney label, is the only accurate list, you know, retail price.

It's not a cost. It's a retail price. And it was put into effect in 1958 so that the consumer, the car buyer, new car buyer, would have apples and apples criteria. You take the same year-make model car with the same MSRP, and you can buy it from the dealer that gives you the biggest discount off of that MSRP. If you get a quote and they're talking about market value selling price, should you then say, that doesn't mean anything to me?

I need the MSRP. Exactly. It's federal law that you know the MSRP. If a car dealer takes the MSRP Monroeing label off a new car, he's subject to fine, large fine, thousands of dollars. They try to obfuscate. They try to hide it. They'll put a phony Monroeing, I call them, a fake addendum label next to it. They'll call market adjustment, as you say, and they'll also add overpriced accessories.

And if you stay tuned to our mystery shopping report later in the show today, we shopped Southern For 441 Nissan, and they added a $1,700 addendum label to the MSRP to smoke and mirror confused the buyer. In giving a car buyer a quote, there are certain items that they have on the sales sheet that I don't understand. What are taxable fees, and in parentheses, estimated? What is that? That is, that's a great fine for you, buddy, because it's a newest term I've seen for the dealer fee. Years ago, they actually called the hidden addition to the cost a dealer fee. And when the dealer fee became a common term, they started going away from that and creating new terms.

And they created new terms, which is, they're all additional profit, hidden profit to the dealer. They call them dock fees, electronic filing fees, administration fees. But the very latest is what you just said, taxable fees. If a fee is taxed, it's not a government fee. If a fee is taxed, it is profit to the dealer, and he's just decided he wants to call it a fee and hide it and surprise you when you sign the dotted line. What is a non-tax fee? Non-tax fee are legitimate.

A non-tax fee is like sales tax or your license and registration that have paid to the Department of Motor Vehicles. Okay. They seem to always want, on top of everything else, they always want a dealer fee. Yes. A dealer fee. And according to Earl Stewart law, you never pay a dealer fee. Exactly. Yeah.

The whole purpose of the dealer fee is to hide it. because when you advertise a car, you negotiate, you talk to a customer, they say, how much is this car, and you tell them, or you put it online, the whole process, you never see the hidden fees. And then when you're ready to sign in, oftentimes you never know about that because it's buried with taxable fees, electronic filing fees, tag agency fees, and so it goes to the computer and you sign, and when the smoke clears, and maybe the smoke never clears, But when you get home a few days later, you look at the paperwork, and you find $1,000 or $2,000 and things you can't identify.

And that's exactly the reason for the dealer fee. Boy, that's something else. That is. There's something else. I went to a dealer, and I wasn't happy with the quote, and he put it in writing, and then he called me, and he lowered the price by $2,000. Sure. This is over the phone. but he won't put that new quote in writing.

What do you make of that? Well, it's because they aren't going to honor the quote, and it can be, you know, as he said, she said, if they try to bump you a couple hundred or a couple thousand dollars, you'll very rarely see a car dealer put anything in writing until you're ready to sign and drive the car home. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of car dealerships. The salesmen are instructed,

If you give the customer a price in writing, like on a buyer's order and give it to them and let them take it with them, the salesman will be fired. The whole way dealers exist and make profits is by raising the price beyond what their competition would charge you. If they give you a written price and you put it in your pocket and go to their competitor, the competitor will beat the price, nine times out of ten. So once they give you a firm price, and a price in writing is a firm price, they feel like you're going to lose the business, and they probably will. A technique that some people use in negotiating for a car, they ask for the factory invoice for the car, the price that the dealer paid. And sometimes they're forthcoming. They'll give you that. But I'm amazed at how little the dealer makes.

According to that, there must be other incentives that they receive from the manufacturer on top of that, right? Yeah, buddy, my son, Stu, would like to answer that question for you. You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to 772-4976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com and we'll answer it during our next live show. Hey, buddy, it wouldn't hurt to take a look at the invoice, but you've got to be an expert on knowing how to read it. There's a lot of hidden things in there.

So I can address, like, toilet, new car invoices. If you know where to look, it'll show you some of these kickbacks that come back to the dealer that is additional profit. If you just look at the line, it'll tell you that the cost of the car is $25,000. Then there's a paragraph a little bit lower that shows the amounts of various, they call them holdbacks, but they're really kickbacks.

But you're absolutely right. There are other monies that are coming back to the dealer that do not appear on that invoice. There's advertising credit, there's gasoline credit, there's incentives, it's stair-step incentives, there's all sorts of money. So that's a document that could be useful, but it's very incomplete. Thousands of dollars. In making the deal, once you agree, on things. Then they really

open their bag of tricks and they try to sell you add-ons. Yes. Yeah. Dealer installed accessories. What are really necessary add-ons after you've made the deal? None. I have the word virtually.

The whole purpose of the dealer-installed accessories is to have something with a high perceived retail value with a very, very low cost. Nitrogen and tires is an example. Deals will charge anywhere from 200 to 800 or whatever they can get away with to put nitrogen in your tires, which is totally worthless

and which costs them pennies. There are a lot of things, window tent, there's a, you know, what do you think of window tents? Yes, exactly. Should window tint be gotten, the window tent? I would have any accessory that the factory could not provide. I would wait and add it after I bought the car. if you want to tent the windows on your car

you can find window tenors you're going to get a competitive bid someone with a high Google rating that does good work and let them do it your price will be probably half what the dealer would charge you same thing with pinstripes any accessory that you want on a car better quality product too if you do it

exactly you better get a higher quality and you get a lower price the dealers the accessories the dealer install accessories are a huge profit center just like the finance department is a huge profit center. You come into buy a car, and next thing you know, they're selling you window tent and nitrogen and tires and road hazard insurance.

Paint ceiling. Paint sealing. Fabric ceiling. The list is in us. Motherguards. What do you think the manufacturers are going to do in today's climate? Are they going to have tremendous extras like zero percent financing? They already do? Yeah, they're doing zero percent. almost commonplace now. Leasing, they're pushing leasing

because they make more money when they lease the car simply because the lessee re-leases or buys another car when they lease a car, far more often. If they sell the car, they don't have the return business. Card dealers also make a lot more money on leases.

But, yeah, the manufacturers are scrambling just like the dealers are. It's a very competitive business. And people are worried about the future, successful future of the car business, manufacturers and dealers are worried about that. What suggestions do you have for negotiating a good deal for yourself? Competition.

All dealers have a common disease. They're insanely competitive, and there's usually two or three or four dealers of the same make in the same marketplace within, you know, 25 or 30 miles. And if you take, once you decide the car you want to buy, you want to buy a Honda Civic. There's four Honda dealers in the market, this local market, Palm Beach County, with an easy driving distance. I would go to consumer reports.

I would decide exactly which conda, a civic I wanted with the accessories and the MSRP, and then I would go to each Honda dealer, either online or by phone. And if you really want to, if you're a tough guy, you can go in person. I prefer online and get their out-the-door price. from four different Honda dealers and let them know that you're shopping and comparing if you do that you'll get the very best price on that Honda Civic probably the lowest price they sold that vehicle for all month there are some card dealers that will offer you a coupon a $250 coupon for test driving a car is that legitimate no it's a it's a way to get you in the door they just marked the car up by 250 and then give you a coupon to mark it down again by 250 coupons, the freebies, you know, come in and get a, you know, watch or whatever they're giving away. They have a drawing and you always win something.

And it's kind of like dealer-installed accessories. It sounds good, but when they put it in your hand and you see what you won, it might be worth five bucks, I mean, maybe ten bucks, to get you in the door. The recovering car dealer is terrific. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I enjoyed the call. I enjoyed hearing from an educated consumer like you, buddy.

Please call again. Thank you. Bye. Okay, 877-960-9960. That's 877-960-960, and Texas is 772-49-3-0. That text number is 772-497-6530, and we've got another caller. We've got Tina from Benita Springs. Hi, Tina from Bonita.

Hey, how are you all doing this morning? We're doing fine. I'm glad you're called because we got Nancy out of action, Syl, and you're the second most strong female advocate, I know. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. That last phone call, as the kids say nowadays, was epic. Anybody that's wanting to buy a car needs to, when their recording comes out,

they need to listen to this episode. They have to. It's a must listen. That was fabulous. He's a good guy. Buddy knows this stuff. Yeah, it was really good. I thought I'd bring to your attention today, like, okay, this is the season, of course, every season, really.

It is the season for car dealers to hawk every kind of vehicle that they have for great advertised prices. And there's one thing, one trend I noticed with one particular dealer here on the West Coast of Florida that makes my blood kind of run cold. Bring in your IRS tax refund. We can get you into a new car. And I'm thinking this is, for one thing, it's taking advantage, it's taking unfair advantage of economically disadvantaged people. I can't think of another turn for that. But it's taking advantage of people that really don't have the money to be burning. Exactly.

And once that tax refund is gone, it is gone. You are not getting one penny of that back. And you could be paying all kinds of fees. You could be paying a high dealer fee. And by the time you paid a dealer fee, your tax refund is eaten up completely. So I hate hearing bringing your tax refund. Please don't bring in your tax refund. Bring in a friend and look at the fine print and read all the numbers and make a decision there.

But once that money's history, there's no getting it back. Great advice, Tana. While you were talking, I held up a full page ad by Roger Dean Chevrolet. Sounds like I'm picking on Roger Dean because, but he's one of the few dealers that advertise in the newspaper anymore, but it's exactly what you're talking about, double your cash refund, your tax refund. Double your tax refund if you come into Roger Dean. And it's smoke and mirrors.

That's nonsense. It's just a way to exploit all those people that are anxiously waiting for the tax refund. I think they even have a form. Stu, is this right? They have a form when you come in. They'll actually, you can assign your tax refund in writing before you get it. I think so. I've heard of that.

Yeah. I think they're doing that. It's about as low as you. you can go. As you said, Tina, taking advantage of those people that can least afford it. Yeah, is it okay if I mention the dealership? Oh, please, yeah. We love

to do that. Cucillo, Kia. Kea. If you see, though. It's going to be a huge job. Yeah. He is. He's the largest Kia dealer in the United States. He says he is.

He says he is. Then there's like, there's another one like Planet Kia. There's another one they're like in a death battle. who's claiming the crown of the top key of the dealer in the United States. But he does outsell the Toyota dealer in that market. And he sells like four or 500 kias. He sells a ton of them. I just think it's funny that there's two kias that are making competing claims for the title.

Oh, okay. Well, thank you, Tina. That's, you've got one of the biggest flim-flam guys in the market in your market. Yeah, it's like, come see me for a car that may catch fire at some point. Oh, boy. I'd love to get a TV commercial and play it on the air for a man. He's a, he's a classic. He's one of the, you remember, remember fast, what was it, Fast Eddie from New York years ago?

Crazy Eddie or something. Crazy Eddie, yeah. He's in, there was a guy in California, too, but this guy, what's the same again? Fuchillo, Fucillo. He is a legend. He's a classic. He's from Long Island, I think, originally. He's opened up some stores down in Florida.

You know, if your television ad is deceptive enough, but it's entertaining, and it is actually, people watch it because they want to be entertained. And then if enough people do that, there's going to be those that will actually succumb and go in by a car. Yeah, he was advertising, like, entire vacation packages when you buy a new Kia. Exactly. Well, Tina, thank you very much for the call. Yeah, big screen TV, too. Can't forget the big screen TV, but don't people know that when you look at the numbers, the TV insulated cost that you're actually paying for the big screen TV, just go to Walmart

and get one for half price. Yeah, you didn't get a free TV. You bought a car and a TV. Yes. That's what you did. Exactly. No such thing as a free lunch. Well, Dana, thanks again for being there for us and for the ladies in the audience and for Nancy.

And please call again next week. You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars. program. If you have a question, text it to 772-4976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com, and we'll answer it during our next live show. Thank you. Thanks, Tina. Thank you. Thanks, Tina. Thank you. Bye-bye. Okay, we've got another call. Let me give that number out again. 877-960-99-60. We love you at the call. We love to hear your voice. 877-960-90-60 and for those of you that don't want to call for whatever reason you can text us at 772-4976530 or even better if you're really feeling shy

your anonymous feedback.com I always forget that you're at www, your anonymousfeedback.com very good and I think we have another caller we have Bob in Palm Beach Gardens good morning Bob good morning I am a fan of Earl Stewart, Toyota. Thank you. I am on my third Camry. Oh. And I have a couple of points to think about that Camry.

I bought that Camry the last April, 2018, used from here a lot. And there are two things I've been to discuss about it. The first thing I ran into, after driving the car, was a rough shifting transmission. I went to my assistant service manager at your company, Mr. Goldberg. And he said, well, they have had software updates on that. In fact, we installed one in there before you bought the car, and there'll be more coming down the road. So I said, okay, I'll wait for that. And when longer I, then in February of this year, for the second time that I've owned a Camry,

I was backing out of a parking space at a restaurant and intending to go into drive. But before I could do that, the car kept going back, so I hit the brakes and nothing happened. The brakes and nothing happened. This happened four or five times. Eventually, I hit a car. and I had moderate damage to my camera, which was expertly repaired by your body shop. It looks terrific. So what I did was I wrote a letter to Toyota.

Actually, I called Toyota and explained the problem to them. And in two days, I had a call from a very professional lady who said that she was assigning a technician from a subcontractor in Michigan. Michigan, who would be coming, would be talking to me. Before the end of the week, any day he called me, identified himself, and then the kid he wants to look at my car. He said, well, my car right now is it disposed at Earl Stewart Toyota. They're doing bodywork on it. Why don't you call a certain gentleman at Earl Stewart, and he will let you know when

the car will be available. He said, fine, he did that. So they've been, they worked through this period and very good communication with me, both your company and, and the inspector about when they would be in to do it. So we could go Friday. He came to your store, and he spent about five hours on my car. When he got through, you should report to me, which I got my email, which I cannot understand. but essentially what I kind of gathered from it was that there was nothing wrong with your car so I called him on the telephone very fine gentleman he indicated that I could and I asked him

about what was the bottom line the bottom line was I didn't find anything wrong with your car the brakes worked fine well he spent five hours on that car and when he got all through the car runs better now than I never ran from the day I bought it he's booed out the transmission I think one of your prior broadcasts Rick mentioned a certain word that you fellows use

it sounds like a shock to the transmission and it snapped it back into what it should be doing maybe I misunderstood all of that but in any case he did that and not really totally satisfied with a car Well, thank you, Bob. I appreciate that.

I just wanted to indicate that one to you. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, it's really a very good car. I looked at it when I saw it. And the other thing that I learned from you a few weeks ago was that if you bought a white Camry, or maybe any white Toyota in the last year, 18 and on up, be aware of the fact that you may have paint coming off

in which they will, under warranty, fix it for you. Yes, that's not. I'm not worried about that. I'm sure they will. I'm sure you'll honor it. The other thing that did in Presbyor was the fact that Toya was very earnest in what they did. They didn't delay anything. They didn't stall.

They went right on it, and they got to hear it by. As soon as that car was ready to go, before it had even been cleaned by your cleaning people, because it was very dirty inside naturally because of all the work they had to do on it, including welding and that sort of thing. He got in there, and he did his work, and I'm really thankful for that.

Well, Bob, thanks. I just want to let you know that. I appreciate. Listeners who may have had that problem, because I ran out of that problem on Street 4, but that 2008, and again, they indicated it was nothing wrong with the car.

and I'm not going to say they're whitewashing. I'm sure they're not. Well, the outcome is good. I'm still skeptical. I'm like you. No, I feel like you do. I'm going to investigate this. Rick will investigate it with me because I'm happy your car is running well.

I can see the concern. I'd have the same concern. And we will investigate this. And hopefully we'll have an answer for you next week. We'll talk to the service manager, the technicians. Rick wasn't involved in this, but whoever was involved with a factory person, we'll get you an answer. And if you call back in next week, we'll have it for you.

Well, that's wonderful. I do appreciate so much. Oh, thank you, Bob. I certainly didn't expect that when I caught you. But I'm glad I don't know it. I will call you again. I'll just add this quick note. I did some research, too, on my own, and I went to, what is it, an NHTSA or whatever it is,

the government agency that controls car safety, and there have been instances in the past where this problem has been brought to the surface. So I'm not alone in this. There are other people that. It's not only, you know, either. There are other manufacturers that have had this problem where the, whatever it is, that particular product that's in the car that controls the brakes. Exactly.

Can stop for a bit, you know, just. freeze up or whatever, like computers do, I guess. And I know it fell in the Navy, and they used to have that on their ships, too. Sure. These devices used to freeze on them. And that's it. So, anyway, I'll give you a buzz next

Saturday. Okay. We'll have an answer for you, Bob, and thanks very much. Have a great day. I think we have another caller here. Let me give that number out. 877-960-99-60. That's a real telephone. [phone]. for audio, and we have the text.

772-4976530. That text number again is 772-4976530, and the caller. And we've got Warren from Pompano Beach. Hey, Warren. Hey, how you doing, Earl? Doing great. How are you doing? Hey, I got a question for you. Yeah.

I'm thinking about a car and I'm months away, maybe even January. it. But tell me the difference between an Avalon and Alexis. Why should anybody pay more for Alexis just because it has a little, you know, whatever on it? And when an Avalon, because I know somebody's got one, and I don't see the difference on it. And you're paying a lot more money. Like, you obviously sell Avalon's not Alexis. So why should somebody get Alexis when I could go into your place and get an Avalon? I'm just curious what the difference would be. Stu can give you an answer on that. He knows more about the product than I do.

Well, we were, hey, Warren. We were just talking about Avalon's the other day. And like we said, we don't want to be a commercial for Toyota or for the dealership, but Consumer Reports just came out and, like, rated the top luxury sedan out there right now. And the answer is there isn't a whole lot of difference. All I would say is maybe the 2020 Avalon is equivalent to maybe the 2017 or 2018 Lexus. They tend to put some of the newer features. They try them out on Lexus first.

I guess, I mean, I think there's more power, like, in the LS, than the GS, which is comparable to the Avalon. So, we might get some more power. But as far as, like, you know, the quality and the fit and finish and just the feel of it, they're essentially the same car. But, Warren, your feeling is correct. It's a prestige thing. People buy Lexus because it's a luxury car. and when they go out and have the valet parker park their car or pick their car up they like to say i have the black lexas they're embarrassed to see the total i have a black Toyota and i've actually had

friends of mine who called me and said i Earl um i want you to know that i bought cars from me for the past 20 years my wife says she will not have a Toyota in our driveway and she wants a Lexus and so we're going to have to buy a Lexus and apologize but that's marketing and And that's the reason you have the Infinity and the Nissan and have the Accura, and you have the Honda, and you have the, what is it, Cadillac and the Chevrolet. So you have a luxury model for most of the manufacturers. People do it for prestige and status. Well, the question about the Avalon is theoretically, if I went into your place or any place and said, look, I want the least possible cost of an Avalon, okay, and the difference between the same nat and going into a Lexus place

and saying the same thing, and then how much difference, how much of a difference of money would I be saving, let's say, on leasing the cheapest Avalon you had and the cheapest Lexus you had. I'm going to, I'll shoot a number out, two or three thousand dollars, and it would be even higher if you went to a more expensive avalon. Or on the lease payment, though.

You're probably looking at a, you know, $150,000 difference. Yeah, it's a crazy difference. And before I forget to mention it, to maintain and have your car service, if you go to a Lexus dealer, they will charge you an arm and a leg. Oil change will cost you twice as much at a Lexus dealer as a little Toyota dealer. It'll cost you twice as much as a Cadillac dealer than a Chevrolet dealer. But you could take any general motor product to a Chevrolet dealer, including Cadillac's. Take your infinity to a Nissan dealer and take your Accura to a Honda dealer, and you'll save a ton of money in maintenance and repair. Yes. My cousin's got an Avalon, and, you know, he got it. He's a lawyer, and one of his clients was a Toyota deal up here in New Jersey, and he had a left letter, you know, I forgot what a year it was, but it was January, and they still had the year before, and, but it was a great deal at the time. You know, but somebody said, you know, one of his colleagues said, well, you know, it's not Alexis, it's an Avalon. I'm like, he could care less, but you know what I'm saying?

I just have it in their head that you have a Lexus, it's like something better, even though it's the same car. Sure. If you want the status and the prestige, then you buy the luxury version. If you want practicality and the economy and you want to get a value, you should buy the lower price spread. Rick has a point. Okay. Next question is I'm just curious about one thing. You've talked about this like a hundred times, but I still don't understand.

And why did the dealer make more money on a lease than they do on a car? I'm selling the car. Like, why is it, I mean, what is the mechanics of that? If I go and lease the Lexus from you, or I go in, I meant the Lexington. You have a, go in and lease, buy the lease. Like, why would you make more money selling it than you would, leasing it than selling it? Yeah, I'll ask too to explain that. He's in the trenches he knows exactly.

Yeah, but to answer your first question, I just looked this up, by the way. The comparable 2020 Lexus to the Avalon lease payment, they're special they're running locally is $5.49 a month with $3,000 out of pocket. The Toyota regional special for the Avalon is like $4.20, so it's about $120 a month less for the same terms, pretty much. The reason why dealers make more, there's a couple of reasons why. One, Earl already mentioned, is that in the long run, that people come back in and turn the car in every three years and they get a chance to, as opposed

what is the normal ownership, like eight years now or longer? Probably 48 months, 50 months. Yeah, so, but the main reason is because the way leasing is presented to customers, dealers tend to focus just on the payment. The selling price isn't really a factor that ever comes up in a conversation. It is disclosed to you in the finance department, and that the cap costs, as they call it, is actually the selling price. The way you can avoid the dealer making more money than necessary is to treat it like a purchase.

And you negotiate using competitive bids, you negotiate the actual purchase price. And then once you have established that, then you say, all right, tell me what it is to lease it. And you tell them how much money out of pocket you want to come. And I wouldn't recommend going more than a couple of thousands. And Warren, another reason that is more profitable to the dealers is there's a lot more opportunity for the smoke and mirrors. you've charged a lot more hidden fees when you lease a car. First of all, the lease payment advertised, you can never lease it with a zero out of pocket. Leases were invented for people that didn't want to come out of pocket.

They don't want to make a monthly payment. And then the dealers took the lease, which was a good thing if you could just make a monthly payment, and they bury down payments and they bury other fees in the fine print. So when you lease a car, the first thing happens, instead of just a deal, dealer fee or a hidden fee that the dealer normally charges on the sale of a car, you have an acquisition fee and the dealer fee. So you pay an acquisition fee for close to $1,000 and you also pay a dealer fee. So there's two hidden fees. And when you dispose of the lease, you're going to have to pay a disposition fee unless you lease another car or buy another

car from that same manufacturer. So they blackmail you to stay with a them and buy another car, else you'll pay disposition fee. And then on top of that, you're going to have to pay any kind of a ding, dent, stain, anything above normal wear and tear on that vehicle. If your tires are worn too much, if you have a scratch, if you have a stain on the upholstery, it is not uncommon to get a bill from the leasing company for $1,000 or $2,000. So there's a lot of things that you don't know about that are hidden below the radar. Another one is the over-milege fee.

When you lease the car, most people don't even know what the allowable mileage is. That was in the fine print. It could be 10,000 miles. It could be 15,000 miles. It could be 7,500 miles. And they can charge it 25 cents a mile when you go over that, and you don't realize it until you turn the car in. You can get a bill from them on over-milege in the thousands of dollars.

So leasing is only for the very astute, very educated, very careful buyer, I should say, lessover. You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to 772-4976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com, and we'll answer it during our next live show. Well, I think I mentioned to this last year, it did happen to me. And you said I was pretty sharp on it. The only reason why it was, I had the four tourists that I had now,

and I hadn't planned on driving much back between New Jersey and Florida. I did a couple times, and I ran over like 10,000 miles. So when I was talking to them, the car and everything, and they looked at there was some damage or some chips and pay. So I just said, forget it. I'll buy the car. I mean, why should I do that? But I just want to say buying the car was as simple as could be

because I don't remember how I got that's whoever owned at the bank or whatever, a finance company or owned it. All I did was send you a bunch of papers. I filled it out. I sent it back to them. And they sent me, I didn't remember the interest, and they sent me a payment book. And it was like the simplest, it was easier than purchase in a Hershey bar. I was just, you know, go in, you know, fill out, they mailed the paperwork, and went

back to them, came back to me, signed it. And the next day I know, you know, they gave me the book, and I had the car. Sure. I'm not paying all that stuff. And, you know, the dealer kept calling me and said, well, do this. And I said, forget it's done already. I bought the car. And two years from now, you know, maybe I'll, you know, sell it and lease another one or buy another one,

which I still have the car anyway. Warren, you're right. You're an educated consumer and you've got to figure it out. You're 100% right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much on the, you know. One last question.

When you go in a lease of a car and you say, like, go one dealer, two dealers, three dealers. How do you know you're going apples to apples? In other words, if you say, well, I want an Avalon, they come to your place. I mean, how much more gizmos would there be on each car to say, well, you know, my car, you're paying $20 more a month because there's another button over here and you need that button. I mean, like, how do you know? MSRP, match the MSRPs. Exactly. Identical MSRP.

and don't vary from that one dollar. Pick the year, make model car you want, and then shop the MSRP with a lease with three different dealers. But also hold constant any down payment, any out-of-pocket expense, be sure you hold that constant. And the number months, 36-month lease, you can't compare to a 48-month lease. And also your mileage allowance, exactly. If that affects the residual amount, which will affect the payment.

You know, all the residual as long as you're doing MSRP and all the other things are being held constant, the lowest payment will get you the best deal. Thank you very much, Warren. Thank you very much. Appreciate the call. I enjoy your show. Thank you.

Bye-bye. 877-960-9960 is a call-in number, audio. 877-960-960. Text 772-497-6530. that's 772-4976530 and we keep getting more college day and we had in a long time. Yeah. Who's next? We've got Richard from St. Paul, Minnesota.

Wow, Minnesota. Hey, Richard. Hey, how are you? We're doing great. What's up? Great. See, I'm looking to buy a popular vehicle that's not selling below the MSRP or actually above MSRP. Is there any recommendation, should I just wait until the thing dies out?

It's a Hyundai palisade that's real popular now. Any recommendations, do I just wait until the end of the year or what? Well, you might have a problem with Hyundai because they closed the plant in Korea, and I'm not sure what the ability was. Not to take advantage or be crass about the current situation, but car sales might be slowing down. this month and the next month because I would always wait. I can't even think of any vehicle that I can remember that was a hot selling car

that was being sold over MSRP where that situation stayed very long. Usually it cools off and, you know, unless you absolutely had to get a car, your car was totaled and you had no choice. I can't think of a reason to buy a car over MSRP. Richard, here's an example is the Toyota Supra that came out. a few months ago, and the prices that dealers were charging for the Supra were tens of thousands of dollars. Double MSRP.

MSRP. Double the MSRP. And within three months, now they're being discounted sharply, and dealers have an inventory of supers. We actually have a factory incentive on them now. Yeah, factory incentive. So that's one of the most extreme examples when the first guy that bought the Supra and walked in and paid $20,000 over his ticker, and now he can buy one for $500 over dealer

cost, there's an example of how waiting on a high-demand, low-supply car will pay you off in the long run. Okay, great. I'll just hang in, or I'm surviving with what I've got, and I'll just watch the

you know, I'll just periodically check and see if they have any incentives and act on it when it happens. Well, thanks, Richard, call again. We love out-of-state callers, Minnesota. I don't think we've had too many Minnesota calls, so please call again. We have a YouTuber here.

We've got Banhammer 1488 is asking, can anyone make sense of this? A car listed is new, but a loaner at the dealership. And Rainbow actually gave a partial good answer here. If the title hasn't changed hands, then they probably consider it new. Once the title goes in a new name, it is used. Could you give a better explanation on that, Earl?

I can't. That's a perfect explanation. It's unfortunate that there isn't a better legal terminology for new and used. There should be because you can have a new car with 100,000 miles on it if it's never been titled. And to me, that's just nonsense. So legally, there should be some transparency. In Florida, and I can't speak from Minnesota or any other state, in Florida, a dealer is supposed to tell you when you take delivery of the car and have you sign a form acknowledging

that this was a demonstrator or a loaner car or something else. But the title will show a new car. Yeah, there's rules. They've got to follow to make sure that your warranty is not impacted. And manufacturers, you actually report that vehicle to the manufacturer as a demo. And then on the buyer's order, in Florida, at least, you'll see up the top of every buyer's order, there's three checkboxes. One says new. One says use. The other says demo.

If it's not, if they market new and it has miles on it and it's not being. handled by the rules, you know, that's not good. They've got to follow the rules. Okay. You know, I think the phones are quiet temporarily. We better jump on the text. All right. Well, I'll start with your anonymous feedback. It says the state of Colorado. We got a caller? Okay, let's take the caller. Callers take priority because you don't want to wait too long. Sometimes we tie up the switchboard. The phones are burning today. David in North Palm Beach. Hey, David.

Hi there. I have a question for Rick, please. Okay. I have a 2007 solar. The car was parked for a week. I got it in it a week later, and the car does not go into gear. It did not leak fluid. The fluid is pink. It seems like it's an electrical problem. Can I have any answers there? The shifter moves, but the car will not. Shift them? Correct. The car starts up. Shifter moves. You can start it in any gear. So then you can start it in drive or reverse. Could this be the neutral safety switch? No, I'm going to say most likely it's your shift cable or something in the shifter has broken

because the neutral safety switch is actually down on the transmission itself. So if it can start in any gear, that means the shifter portion on the transmission is not moving, even though the shifter inside the car is. Okay, makes a lot of sense. I think he answered my question. Appreciate it very much. Thanks for call, David. and please call again.

Okay, we're going to get to the text now, I think. Yeah, back to this anonymous feedback. It says the state of Colorado pulls ahead in the 21st century and will allow electric vehicle manufacturers without dealer franchises to sell directly to consumers. This is in Colorado. New law, it says. The caveat of the new law for 20th century carmakers

is that the manufacturer of electric vehicles must be a sole EV manufacturer without any gasoline or diesel. cars in its past. The EV maker, Rivian, will be able to take full advantage and sell to consumers without the outdated dealer model. Thank you. And it's sign, Stu's Long Loss Sun. Wow. It's you, Jeremy. Where have you been? Let me say this. This is huge. And I hope there are a bunch of car dealers listening out there. It's a crack in the dike is what it is. Yeah, this is a crack in the dike for sure. And I want to verify this. I accept it. It makes sense. It's a good thing. And it's kind of a double whammy. It's going to force the manufacturers to rush into

being all-electric sooner. And it's also going to allow the Tesla model to take place in all the states. In fact, they'll even allow Tesla to open brick-and-mortar dealerships. I'm not sure how many they're going to want to open. But, yeah, whatever it would be. But the reason that this is breaking news and so exciting and such good news for the consumer is that the car dealers today are grandfathered in with archaic franchise laws in all 50 states protecting them. They're bulletproof.

A car dealer can get away with almost anything, and they do. And that's the reason car dealers do such a deceptive thing. thing when they sell you a car or maintain a repair your car. And that's why Earl Sturton cars exist. In fact, it's kind of sad because if this were the case all over, this show wouldn't exist. We wouldn't have to help you. Because when you bought a car, it would be like a Tesla experience. And which is, I personally have experienced that I never went through and actually bought it, but I've actually considered about buying a Tesla. And the whole experience is absolutely delightful compared to what you'll see in Mystery Shopping Reports on this

A little more like buying an iPhone than buying a car for it or something. Good example. All right. Moving along, more anonymous feedback. Will you be closing your dealership to help our community stop the spread of the coronavirus? Actually, we are not closing our dealership, but we have taken some measures to ensure the safety of our employees and our customers. What we're doing is we are paying all of our employees. If they feel they may have a cough or a temperature or anything that suggests they might have the coronavirus, they get full pay.

So no matter whatever their average pay was last month or whatever average we calculate, they get paid, they lose nothing by going home. No disincentive to stay at the dealership. Erring on the side of safety. Because that's what's going on. I mean, sorry to interrupt. I'm saying that's the scariest thing is that when people facing a financial hardship, they, they go to work anyway or they put themselves in the situation. Yeah, they feel like they have to.

They're afraid, which is worse, not being able to have a paycheck so I can take care of my family and my groceries or risk spreading the virus. Also, we've taken kind of a extreme measure. We are also sending our customers home who are sneezing and coughing. We will not service or sell a car to someone that is there with a possible virus. coronavirus or otherwise. I know this is extreme and I apologize to my customers for this,

but I think when our customers think about it, they would rather protect the safety of our other employees and of our other customers. So we're just asking anyone with a cold or a flu symptoms, please don't come into our dealership until they pass or until we have a test for the coronavirus, and that's imminent, should happen very quickly. And lastly, at our dealership, what we're doing is we're having, we have a full-time person going from, you know, door handle to door handle, to steering wheel, to keyboard, to smartphone. We're wiping everything down. Keyboard, yeah.

Disinfectants, we're wiping everything. They make a circle. They wipe it down. They come back and they wipe it down again. The cleanest place in town. Cleanest place in town. And we think as long as that it works until our employees leave, if we have everybody leaving because of flu symptoms, then we will close, but that hasn't happened so far.

We've only had two or three leave, I believe. Yeah, yeah, just out of precaution. Okay. The process is working. 877-960-9960 is a call-in number. 877-960. And the text number is 772-4976530. That's 772-497-65-30, and we still have non-vis feedback.

A bunch. Yeah. Good morning, Earl. I feel that your show is lacking a minor detail, the details of a car purchase progression. You mentioned reading consumer reports, obtaining three or four out-the-door quotes, and researching independent financing. That's at the start of the process. Then you mentioned the box and declining options, services, and arbitration.

Is there something to watch out for in between? Is there something after the box to trap consumers? Thank you. After the box, that's the financial insurance department. That's pretty much it. I think that one of the reasons we have Rick here is because of the hazards of maintenance and repair. And so after you buy the car and finance the car, then you have to maintain it. And we do talk on this show a lot about being sure that you only pay for factory recommended maintenance

that you do not go with the dealer recommended maintenance. So that's a hazard you have to watch out for. With the repairs, you have to be very careful because you can be given a high price, just like on a car shop and compare prices on expensive repairs. And I think we have a very special caller right now. Is that the same, Nancy?

It is indeed. We have her back. Hello, Nancy. Good morning. I have a question from Brie, who's a long-time listener of the show, and she read an article this past week. I was going to go ahead and text it, but it's a little too complicated. She more or less wants the stamp of approval from all of you, especially you, Earl. And the article was from the USA Today, and it's in regards to shopping website.

details depreciation percentages and it talks about the five best used auto deals broken down and this is from I see cars and what they did was take a national average price and the decrease

from new to a year old and it's all types of vehicles and the survey showed a decrease of 25.2% and the cost of that vehicle. Do you know

anything about the article? You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to 772-4976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com and we'll answer it during our next live show.

Can you hit some light on it? Yeah, I haven't read the article. Depreciation is important fact to take it consideration when you're buying a used car. And I go back to your favorite and my favorite source, consumer reports. Their used car buying guide is the best thing that you can come up with when you buy a used car. It takes into account the depreciation and all the other variables. You can have a car that had relatively low depreciation, but they might also have other problems

that would be something you should take into consideration. If you'd have a lot of consideration, if you You see the top 10 used cars recommended by consumer reports, and they break it down by price class, above 10,000, below 10,000, you know, 10 to 20, whatever, and you can really get in granular with the specific used car you want and search for one of those. But depreciation is very important. I'll give you a good example. The Jeep has very low depreciation. And you might say, well, that's a great buy.

It's a load of appreciation because people love jeeps and they're not enough jeeps to go around and they tend to depreciate very little. But they're also unsafe, high maintenance, high insurance, and a lot of other negatives. So concern reports is the best source of picking out your used car. Yes, well, to your comment about the Jeep Wrangler, it does show that SUV, having, the smallest drop percentage-wise. But as I said earlier, Brie is really anxious to purchase a vehicle. And I think what caught her eye, you know, was the fact that there's some, you know,

really good prices out there right now, but is the article valid? She talked about the biggest drop, and that would be the BMWX and the Land Rover, to mention a few. Yeah. So I think that your suggestion about the Consumer Report, which I agree with, is a great guide. And I think that she should just forget the article from USA Today. And that article was from Mark Thielen. And I think that the Consumer Report would be a much better idea.

I thank you for your thoughts. Okay, Nancy. Thanks for the coach, too, had a comment. Yeah, Nancy had mentioned in the article they mentioned this website called Icars.com. And I'm familiar with that a little bit. It's just a car referral service, kind of like auto trader or car gurus. But there's always caution that we need to advise when you're looking at that. Car gurus, for example, as a competitor to auto trader, it's smaller.

And they rate the price that is given to them by the dealers. And they'll say it's a great price, good price, fair price. They do not take into a factor hidden fees. And so I see cars does the same thing. and they will rate the cars a great deal, good deal, etc. But you have to be an astute consumer and realize that most dealers are still going to add on hidden fees on top of that. So you need to ignore the rating on the price. So how their opinion on it?

Pretty important to take into consideration. And like I said, she's in a hurry to buy a vehicle, and this article just popped up at her. And, you know, I think you guys really answered the question. and the concerns that she asked. Thanks so much. Thanks to call, Nancy. I'll see you in about an hour. Remember, you can call 877960-9960,

or you can text us at 772-497-6-5-30. And please, don't forget, www.WW Your Anonymous Feedback.com. Stay tuned for that mystery shopping report. It's going to be a doozy. Thank you, Nancy. Okay, we have a call, another caller. We've got David.

Originally from New Jersey, but now in Florida. Wow. Hi, David. Hi, how are you? Doing great. How are you doing? Very well, actually. I'm still from New Jersey, just vacationing in Florida.

Well, good. My question was regarding residual. The residual is very important with regard to the final leasing price of a vehicle, I believe. Yes. And when it comes to the end of the lease, now I remember in the past that I was able to negotiate if I wanted to purchase the vehicle at the end of the lease. Is that still a possibility today? No, not anymore, David. That was a long time ago.

and we uh right now it's you have a specific option to purchase in the contract and uh they're closed-end leases now yeah closed-in well yeah and but even before in the in the closed-in leases there was a little bit haphazard about the way cars were bought and sold and there were some lawsuits because the uh less the leasing companies were accused of not honoring the um the option to It's a long story, but it's really nailed down pretty hard now, and you'll have that one price in the contract. That's what you can buy it for, but they also charge you a fee to exercise the option to purchase. So it's not nearly as good as it once was. Okay, and the residual, though, when you're negotiating a lease, they have some leeway with what the residual will be,

and the higher the residual, the lower the lease price. Am I correct in that? Yeah, they're using the residual now as a price discounter. If they're trying to push a particular model, like if they're selling a new car that's slowed down a little bit, instead of a rebate or a discount advertised, they bump the residual. Yeah, they'll enhance the residual and lower the rate. Yeah. So it's a lot of wheeling and dealing and leasing now, both by the manufacturer and the dealer,

which makes it something that I always admonished people that want to lease. Be very careful. You've got to really do your homework. You've got to be sharp. You've got to be tough. If you go in to negotiate a good lease price, it's twice as hard as to negotiate a purchase price. But it can still be done.

And there are times because so much emphasis is being put on leasing now by manufacturers and dealers. Why? Because they make more money, both of them, that your choice is out. there are greater with leasing so you might be able to get a better deal if you lease a car if you're really tough but it's also a lot harder to do well i i agree with you wholeheartedly that uh you really have to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges yeah and visits several dealers and i'll tell you i i consider myself a pretty good negotiator but

even after I negotiate the best price at one of the dealers and I sign all the contracts and I walk out the door to my car, I say, okay, now how did they get over on me? Well, you know, you're better overly skeptical and every now and then. If you look at, it's interesting, if you look at the sales of all the vehicles in a dealership for a month, you can look at the same model for that matter. The profit the dealer make will vary by thousands of dollars. In other words, Tom Jones came in, and he bought this Honda Civic, and they made $1,000. Mary Smith came in, and they sold the exact same car the next day, and they made $2,000.

And a little old lady, and pardon the expression, I don't mean to be deprecating in any way, but disrespectful or whatever the word is, they made $10,000 on the little old lady. It's a terrible system because the salespeople are commissioned and they're armed and trained to make as much money on every person that comes in the door. And the least sophisticated, the less educated, the English language impaired, the very young, the very old, these are what I call victims, they come in and they're the ones that will pay the dealer a $10,000 profit on the same dealer, on the same deal that David, who is a sophisticated bar, you'll go in. and he'll make $100 on you. He'll make $10,000 on the grandmother, and he'll make $100 on David. That is the way cars are sold.

Okay, well, thank you very much for your answers. Thank you, David. Appreciate the call, and I believe we have YouTube. Well, it's kind of a continuation. Banhammer, 1488. He had to take a phone call, so he kind of came back with some more information here. He says, 2,000 miles.

on a new Silverado, and he had to get the salesman to acknowledge that it actually wasn't brand new. And he says he's going to be low-balling them on Monday to see what's what. He says, also, I got that, well, that's why it's so low over the phone, smoke and mirrors. Please come into the dealer, and we may be capable of dealing face-to-face, but not an email. Yeah, that's typical. You want to get them on the door. They don't, oftentimes salespeople are or. prohibited, and they can be fired for giving a legitimate price over the phone. Always you'll want to get them in the door.

And that way you can play your smoke and mirrors game and bump the price of thousands of dollars. On cars that have 2,000 miles, that is not a lot of miles on a new car. And it will be added to the manufacturer's warranty, and you should be sure it is. if it's a demonstrator or even a service loaner and oftentimes a new car in stock will have miles on 30 or 40% of the

vehicles that are sold today were not in that dealership you bought it from stock inventory he got it from somebody else our dealership is in North Palm Beach Florida we will get dealers cars from Jacksonville and from Orlando and from

Tampa so we'll have two 300 miles on a car and it's fairly common. It is a new car that is taken into consideration when you buy it so if it's a 36,000 mile warranty and it had 300 miles on when you bought it, you get 36,300

miles. Be sure they do that but it is a fact that I don't ever remember selling a car with zero on the odometer. It's never happened. Never happened. They got to drive it off the truck. Exactly. So if Bannhammer goes in and he's fighting

for this Chevy Silver which you always say trucks have a bigger discount available that a consumer can fight for. With 2,000 miles on it, just a ballpark idea, what can he really expect to maybe get out of them? He isn't probably going to get anything out of them because they had 2,000 miles on it. He could use that as a focus. But as far as the dealer's concern, especially if this is a low-supply high-demand truck and they only have two or three in stock, he's going to sell that one with 2,000 miles on it for as much or more than he'd sell one with no miles.

But it's probably more motivated to sell it because if there's other cars like it and other Silverado and a facing dealer, you know, so they definitely want to, they don't want that high mileage car to settle in a lot. So if you tell them that you have, you're working a deal on a car with no miles or less miles, 100 miles on it.

Yeah, if you're hung up on miles, which I don't think you should be that much, as long as a car is pristine, and there's no road damage or anything like that to it. If it's a real nice car and it's got 2,000 miles, you're going to get 36,000, 38,000 miles warranty. But the psychology of it. You've got two identical cars side by side.

One's got 2,000 miles. One has seven miles on it. I think the guy with the higher mileage car is going to have to discount that car a little bit more. Use that against the sales money to negotiate. Sounds like some good weapons. and we have Howard in Jupiter. Howard.

Hello, Howard. You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to 772-4976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com, and we'll answer it during our next live show. Hello, Howard. Can you hear us? Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. And I hope Nancy's doing better. She's doing better.

It should be in next week, I'm pretty sure. That's great. I'm glad to hear that. Okay, here's my question to you. It's concerning Toyotas, not your dealership of Toyotas in general. I notice I have a 2017 Camry, and then there was a new vehicle that came out, 2018, 2019 is practically the same. 2020 is practically the same.

When will a real change be made to the camera? I am told that the 20, you know, about, top the bottom. I'm told 2021 is a body style change. Usually they used to do every five years for the car total overhauls. And then they kind of accelerated that process. Remember, we had the 2014 Camry, which is new body style. Then the 2014 and a half, because nobody liked the 2014. Then the 2016, I think they changed it.

And so they kind of sped it up to keep up with the times. styles are changing, and so they've got to stay fresh and new. But I think it's 2021 is what we're going to see the next redesign on the camera. You have any idea what new features there will be in the 2021? It's going to be a flying car. No, kidding. We know that. Maybe amphibious.

No, I don't know. Here's my prediction is that we're going to see more technological features, some nifty stuff we haven't heard about yet, probably better fuel economy and just a new styling is probably what we're going to see maybe a little more power, smaller engine, they just kind of get more efficient and yeah, there'll be improvements. I mean, it'll probably look a little bit different and they might have, they might do more hybrids, you know, they're trying to, Rick's got something. How about the wireless car play for Google and Apple?

Yeah, no, I really hope they better do that because there's one Toyota model that has the wireless car play, and not to go off on a total tension, but Apple CarPlay is the coolest thing. I think it's come down the pike for vehicles, because after the history of, like, how terrible the infotainment systems are, Apple CarPlay is awesome. He's still got to plug it in with a cord to your phone, but there are more cars out there that, well, in the future it'll be more available where you don't even have to plug it in. It just hooks with your phone, and it's pretty neat. It'll be exciting, I promise you, Howard.

yeah what is the story with the super i have a nephew that wanted to buy a super i i i guess i talked them out of it well you know it's interesting consumer reports actually recommends it as a sports car yeah they gave it a very high rating and uh it's just supply and demand you know cars are not exciting anymore uh you got SUVs and trucks are exciting and crossovers are exciting. These sports cars are just not exciting. And you have a limited number

of people. They were the first time, you know, people that have to have the first vehicle on the street. And that population is diminishing. So when the super came out, the price peaked and then it crashed. I mean, if you bought a car on speculation,

the super, you really cost you a lot of money. You're going to buy a super dirt cheap now, but it's a great little car. I bought one. Yeah. I don't want to drive a super because I don't, it's hard for me to get in and out of. That's my workout routine. I can get in it, but I can't get out again. Will you go to the gym, and that's how you work out?

I work out by getting in and out of my super. Yeah, well, it's great work, but I'm too old. It's fun to drive them. I wanted to charge my nephew, I think $1,000 over the MSRP. I told them, forget about it. This is a year ago. You can buy it for cost now. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, they were doing that. You can buy below cost now. Yeah, I'm sure your dealership didn't do that, but they're doing it in Brooklyn, really hitting people. Of course, it's the status thing in Brooklyn, you know. You slick back here and all that stuff. We knew a dealer up in Virginia, Howard, who the general manager priced it like double MSRP, like $120,000. And then the news article came out, made national news, and the guy that owned the dealership flipped out and almost fired the general manager for embarrassing them.

But I'm sure if the news story hadn't come out, he probably would have patted him on the back if he sold it. Howard, you probably heard about, you probably know John Stalupi, no of him, and you probably heard that John Stalupi paid over a million dollars. $2.1 million. Well, how much? $2.1 million. That was a charity thing, though. Yeah, for the first super that came off the assembly line. Now, I guarantee he's not too excited about that right now.

No, I got a tax write off. It was a charitable contribution. Is it worth more money now? This is the first one. I doubt it. Well, maybe. I mean, how about the first Edsel? Maybe that'd be worth a lot of money.

Give it a hundred years, and then it might be worth it. There's only one car worse than the Edsel. Yeah. The Ugo. Remember the Ugo? I do. Well, I turned it down. Yeah, you almost had a franchise.

They asked me to take the Ugo franchise, and the Ugo guy came in, and in order to get the franchise, I had to buy in advance. one year's worth of Ugo's. You wanted to see how your checkered franchise was going to cut up. And I laughed him out of my office, and he went over to the Dodge dealer on Okachovia Boulevard,

and he did it, and he became a Ugo dealer. So, you know, you never know. Okay, very good. Thank you very much. Thank you, Howard. Have a great one. 877-960-99-60, 877-9-60, or text,

772 4976530 772 4976530 we better catch up on these texts more anonymous feedback this is a good one could be dangerous

in your opinion Earl what is the absolute worst in caps the worst car dealer in South Florida and why gosh that's a tough one you know Napleton comes to mind Greco

Greco Greco. Roger Dean's giving a run for the money. Yeah, I hate to pick on Roger. Rogers passed away years ago and his daughter is on the dealership there. It's hard to say. Let's not say worse. I think that's too judgmental.

Let's say practices that we've uncovered that we find to be very consumer-friendly, run rampant at the Napleton and Greco dealerships. Yeah, Fichillo over in Tampa. And there's always, you know, just when you think you're found. Listen to the mystery shopping report that's coming up very shortly and telling me if they should be a candidate because we've done them twice in a row and we haven't seen much improvement. Okay. Here's another one, a topical question. Will hand sanitizer ruin the leather on my steering wheel? Let me answer this one.

Okay. Probably not. Just don't let your hands dry thoroughly before you put it on there. It does have alcohol in it, and alcohol will dry out. Yeah, we all got it. We each have our own little bottle. Here, look at it. That was for the microphone

Disinfecting Waves No, it's got alcohol in it So it will dry out Leather and things like that So just make sure if you put it on your hand Just let your hands dry before you grab your steering Well, okay That's my expert opinion

We'll skip that one What was it insulting? We gotta do the nasty ones Just bleep out the Well it's not All right amazingly runaway Toyota's only seem to be owned by old people Well, we got to tell it like it is. And we love selling Toyot's old people because old people have money and they're nice.

And they're smart. They got experience. So we'll have an old folk sale or something. Okay. I think they're probably referring to when Buddy had called him was talking about his car and the brakes. And I don't think it's a fair comment to make. I think what happened to Buddy was scary and it deserves to be looked into. Okay, here's another one

I think Nancy might have set this one in You need a new theme song Actually, no, that's not Nancy Because I think she picked that one song She says you need a new theme song Or whoever wrote this You need a new theme song If you want to attract female listeners

You're playing an aggressive masculine Western theme song How about something empowering by a female artist Like You Gotta Be by Desiree? Hmm Well, we'll talk to Nancy about that She's in charge of the... The other issue is the trademark and copyright thing.

Like, I think we still get... We get dinged on Facebook whenever we play the good and back and the ugly. But, you know, who knows? Okay. Text. We have texts coming in, too. Oh, this is kind of cool. So last week we had somebody on anonymous feedback,

say they got this incredible deal up in New Hampshire on a new carola, and I indicated I was skeptical about the deal they... I remember, yeah. So they said their total author... 2199-999. Anyway, I had some back-and-forth, friendly back-and-forth with the texter in the last week, and he sent me his buyer's order, and there was a mistake. He accidentally said it was 21-999 out the door, it was actually 23-9, so it was a couple of thousand dollars higher. And in New Hampshire, they're tax, sales tax exempt. They also don't have the southeast

Toyota administrative fee, which all new tootas in our area in the southeast eastern United States, That's $1,000, $1,100, yeah. And then the regional rebate in our area is $500, there's is $1,500. So when we did all the math together, he got a fantastic deal. And I got to say, it's not practical, but if you want to buy a new Toyota, go move to New Hampshire. I have not seen a deal like that. I'm looking at bottom line, this guy is 1,000 less than you can get it down here in South Florida. Let's do that.

Let's do some mystery shopping of Connecticut dealership. and see what the prices are compared to the South Florida market. Okay. Well, I mean, you don't even have to do the mystery shop. You just take off the sales tax. That's going to save you over 1,000 on every car. Yeah. But you've got to be a resident to get the sales tax.

I was being facetious. Don't really move there. It's not. You'll spend more money moving there. All right, Anne Marie texted us and says, Good morning. There's an old rumor that cops tend to pull over flashy cars even if they aren't speeding. You know, the type, the cars that look like they would break the land speed

record just standing still. Kind of like my car. Do you know if that's true? I think it's true because it's human nature. I know how I feel when I'm on the road and I forgot. I got this thing against BMW drivers and they all seem to drive recklessly and fast. And every time I see a BMW, my bullet pressure goes up a little bit. It's purely irrational and it's probably stupid. But I think cops are human beings, and we all react to the cars that people drive. I don't like people that drive Bentley convertibles. I don't know why. Yeah.

And if you're driving one, we don't want you to listen to the show either. That's right. You're not welcome here. That's right. I was planning on getting one of those. But, yeah. Am I wrong about, let's be honest about that. When you're on the road, you look at people, people are identified not only,

is themselves but what they drive. Yeah. And I have a feeling of certain cars I feel warm and fuzzy about. Yeah. Other cars, I get angry. What do you feel when you see somebody driving a Mini Cooper? I feel like they're dumb. Oh, my God.

You know your controller drives one of those. I just think, why would they? Yeah. Please don't be offended. This is called infotainment. That's what we're doing here. All right. We have another text.

Ann, Earl, will your dealership remain open during the outbreak? We've already answered that question. The answer is yes, and we're keeping it clean. Good morning, Earl and Company. This is Ben in Pennsylvania, looking to clarify the tire pressure monitoring system. Can I say something? Can I editorialize that last question? Read it again.

Earl, will your dealership remain open during the outbreak? Well, of course, you answered it. We are going to remain open, and we're doing it because we're taking extraordinary cleansing steps. But the biggest thing that we're doing, and if we have any federal... or state or any officials. We need to have help for small businesses. We're getting it. To subsidize. They passed it last night. The House passed. It's going to the Senate. But I don't believe it is for, I don't believe it's for an employee who feels uncomfortable about their symptoms. No, it's if you have it. If you have it. I don't think that's a way to do it.

If you have it, if you have the coronavirus, the federal government is saying is taking steps to come in and pay that person to stay home. Well, actually, reimbursing employers. Reimburseing employers. What you should do is, and this is the federal government and the state and anybody, you should be able to let an employee if they have the symptoms, even though they don't know they have it, to tell them to stay home at full pay. because that will break the cycle of the infection. If everybody that sneezed and coughed and had a temperature did not come to work and were paid 100% or what they'd normally make, they'd have no incentive to violate that.

They would go home and there would be no exposure. Rick? I got just two thoughts on it. The first one is that might also be worth expending to include, say, if my wife tested positive for coronavirus, obviously the contagious factor is extremely tight. We live in a small house, so there'd be a very good chance that I would get it. But you would want to go to work because you wouldn't want to be around your life.

Well, he does that anyway. Oh, boy, that truth comes out. Hey, there is something, by the way, and I haven't really read the details in that legislation that's likely going to get signed in the law. It did have actually a family medical leave act, FMLA, Well, it allows you to keep your job if you have to leave or take care of the amount. We're going to real quickly. That's important.

The only thing that I mentioned is going to, it's going to be paid family medically is what I'm trying to tell you, Rick. Testing needs to be made available immediately. Yeah, okay. Good morning, Earl and Company. This is Ben in Pennsylvania looking to clarify the tire pressure monitoring system instructions. You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to 772-49. 976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com, and we'll answer it during our next live show.

First, and always make sure you read your owner's manual because not all cars use TPMS the same way. To prove my point, I undertook a quick research project this week and went through a few online 2020 owners' manuals. Honda Accord and Civic still use indirect TPMS, and their manuals give specific instructions on how much the vehicle must be driven after the TPMS set button is pressed in order to learn the setting. Ford, Mazda, Ram, Kia, Dodge, and Subaru use a direct TPMS. Don't have a set button. Rick is correct. Toyota uses

direct TPMS and does have a button to set the tire pressure level. I only check popular models for these makes, so please read the manual in case your model is different. Thank you for that input, and let's move to the next question. Okay, that was my plan all along. I think Buddy asked all the questions a new car

buyer could possibly ever need answered. And by way, Betty was a caller that we had earlier. in the show. By the way, I called last week with my questions regarding new seat covers for my 27 Camry. Got a call back from Martin and Parts Department. Same day, he explained to me my options and expected cost involved. We got them ordered and here I am. One week later, enjoying my new seat covers. What a great job of customer service and satisfaction. Mark and Palm Beach Gardens. Thank you. Good morning, Earl. Steve from New Jersey. I'm waiting for the delivery of my factory order car. Upon delivery, if the dealer finds a scratch on the car,

and repairs prior to me taking receipt, are they obligated to inform me of this repair? Also, if the car was damaged in this manner, should the sales price be discounted? Lastly, can I reject delivery if the car was repainted? Great question. States have different laws. State of Florida has a law that if you have damage on a car

greater than 1% of the MSRP, then you have to disclose it. I would say that if the car had a scratch on it and you ordered it and it came in and had a scratch, you would have a right to decline it. And I think that if they paint it, there is a risk, depending on the scratch, that it could devalue the car. Anytime a car gets painted for any reason, it has less value than a car that's never been painted. That's a sad fact.

You can have a car that has the best paint job that you've ever seen. and it looks like it's brand new, or maybe better than brand new, but when you put a paint meter on it, which is a device that measures the thickness of the paint, the person who appraises that car is going to say, it's been repainted, even though it might have been a spot, and he will devalue the car. So if I were buying a new car that I ordered and there was a scratch on it,

I'd say, I don't want that car, I want one without a scratch on it, even if you painted it. But the dealer would not be required to tell you that it had been reprimed. painted, and that's a sad fact. Yeah, it's a shame that the average consumer doesn't have access to the paint meter that we use when we appraised cars. Good point. Because that would give it away. Actually,

you know what? It could save you a ton. I mean, I think they're about a hundred hundred bucks or so to get a paint meter. You'll probably get it online. What's the official name? Are they call them paint meters? I don't know. Yeah. Well, we could Google that. Yeah. Okay. Next. Rick, you got anything?

The Carciss's coating thickness gauge paint meter basically available on amazon 120 uh the red one is 130 and they have some cheapy models here for like 17 but i think i would probably go with one that's going to be a little better quality but yeah i'm seeing one right on here right now at five stars five reviews only but it's five stars but 120 bucks for a paint you think about it 120 bucks could save you thousands and a loss that you'd get on an appraisal when you trade that car in. And it would be a great negotiating tool.

You come in, you're looking at the newer used car, you'll whip out your paint meter, and the salesman's jaw drops. Right, throw a fit on the show floor. You weren't going to tell me this? That, oh, that would scare me. You go around the car and say, okay, based on my findings,

I'm going to offer you $1,000 less than you're quoting me. That would be really funny. Do you imagine the look on a used car manager's face? If you saw customers wandering around the used car lot, with a paint meter. I got a great idea. Agent Thunder, we'll get them a paint meter.

We got them. This will be hysterical. I got one in my pocket right now. Yeah, mystery shop. We're going to mystery shop somebody with a paint meter. That's great. Hey, earlier Warren called in and was asking about with the difference between an Avalon and Lexus.

And I just had the thought popped into my head that, well, when you get right down to it, a Corvette, which is like the Golden Star American sports car, there's nothing but a Chevrolet. If you're really just calling them names and you're just looking at the name. But it is a Chevrolet. A Corvette is a Chevrolet.

I know. It is a Chevrolet. But it's a, you know. So Chevrolet Corvette? But that's when you're looking at names and you're saying, well, I have to have a certain car because of a name. Well, okay. But, you know, what's in a name?

Yeah. A rose is a rose. You know, in the biz sometimes, back on the paint meter, we do call it a mill gauge. when we want to be fancy. Okay, we can take a couple more text here. I think we'll get caught up because we're almost done. Good morning, Earl.

I just had struts put on my 2007 Honda Accord. When is it necessary that I have shocked absorbers replaced? I don't know, Rick. Very simple test. Go to the front of your car and the back of the car. Basically just put your knee on the bumper or your hands, push the car up and down, and get it towards bouncing up and down,

little bit and then step back if your car continues to bounce more than once or twice up and down it's time for new struts or shocks I like that I've seen people do that before I never yeah it's called a jounce test or a bounce test and it's basically you're the springs actually control the height of the car and let the car bounce up and down and the shock absorbers simply slows and controls that bounce what make car was this was an accord Sorry. What year make was this? I didn't say.

Or is it 07 maybe? 2007, according to you. So what is the life of a set of shocks on what make was it? Honda Accord. Honda Corp. It's going to depend on the car and your driving habits and where you go with it. I've seen my 97 Tacoma that I had, I put 270,000 miles on it and never needed shocks or struts. That's what I thought.

They last a long, long time. A lot of cars, they'll last a life of the car. are. I have a correction to make, by the way. It's not called a mill gauge. That was misinformation passed along by my brother. It is not called a mill gauge. Don't try to buy one. All right. Moving along. Bob text us in response to the somewhat abrasive comment that we got on anonymous feedback about the old people. It says just to know older folks no value. And that is absolutely true. Well, I tell you what, I'm not saying this because I'm an old guy. We find that the older people are far more sophisticated buyers and informed buyers. And we have a high population of older people in Palm Beach County. And there are, you know, they're the preferred buyers as far as I'm concerned. It's the school of hard knocks. Yeah.

You learn through your experience. Yeah. That's right. We are all caught up with our text and anonymous feedback. Oh, fantastic. And now we have a very interesting. interesting mystery shopping report and again I say I think I didn't cover this as I usually do at the beginning of the show this is something that no other radio show TV show anybody

does we actually go undercover and we have a great great mystery shopping person and we use other people too Agent Thunder is our primary mystery shopper but we use female shoppers and we use different people. We actually have teams go in, husband and wife, even children come in to mystery shop. So when we go into a southward of cardio ship, they can't tell by the looks of the folks coming in there who they are. And they don't know that they're not going to buy a car in reality. Disguises. We use disguises sometimes. Exactly. Exactly. So we mystery shop Southern 441 Nissan. For you folks have been around for Palm Beach County, for Well, they used to be called Royal Palm, Nissan,

and they were bought out by a man named Terry Taylor a few years ago, a couple years ago maybe. One month ago, we investigated Southern 441 Nissan for an ad they ran promising a very low lease payment for a new 2020 Nissan Rogue, just $1208 a month. We analyzed the ad and had a pretty good idea what the catch would be before we ever visited Southern 441 Nissan. There are specific things that we look for,

and lease ads. The first being the total amount of money required is signing. And this is always hard to find and figure out and it's always in the fine print. This amount should include the down payment and all taxes and fees.

We also look at the contract term, 36 months, 48 months, 24 months, and the miles allowed vary from I saw one ad a long time ago that actually only allowed 5,000 miles a year, and it was 50 cents for an overage. I haven't seen that sense, but 7,500 is not uncommon, 10,000 is common, and 7,500 is, I don't think they, do they do 10,000?

I've seen 10,000, yeah. So you've got to know what your mileage allowance is, and you can't see it because it's in the fine print. And the lower the mileage allowance, the likelihood, the more it's going to cost you. I'll hit you with 15, 20, 25 cents a mile, and as a high as 50. Anything you save in the payment, you'll give it up. In that case, we suspected the catch was a large amount of money due its signing, and it always is.

Even the manufacturer's ads, I might say, which you would think that General Motors and Honda and Toyota, when they advertise on television, and they say $199 a month coming from Honda or Toyota and in the fine print on the TV that you cannot read $2,000, $1,000, $5,000, you don't know what it's going to be. I saw a Brayman ad one time that had $20,000 down payment in the fine print. $20,000. So even on the manufacturer ads when they have the out-of-pocket, the dealers will add more to that. I mean, they'll be, because the fees aren't included.

Oh, sure, yeah, exactly, yeah. taxable fees, non-taxable fees. When Agent Thunder went in, he confirmed this was indeed the catch. As a matter of fact, his salesman Lloyd addressed, this is the previous shop I'm talking about, salesman Lloyd addressed this right up front. As soon as Agent Thunder mentioned the offer in the ad, Lloyd immediately informed him that the payment would require some money down plus fees. Yeah.

So they're trained, yeah, some. They're trained because they know that the advertising, is bait and switch, and they start to diffuse the explosion right away when you come in by, oh, I told you there would be some money down. Yeah, but they downplay at all. To get that payment, yeah. Things unraveled from there. The ad car wasn't even there in the previous shop.

Lloyd and his manager, Sal, tried to switch vehicles and advise the actual payment would vary from the offer in the ad about $15 a month. It's not going to vary down. It's going to vary up, about $15. And that's a lot of money on a lease, by the way. Yeah, and that's why leases are popular. What's 15 times 36? We're all payment buyers. Everybody's a payment buyer.

We make our monthly mortgage payments, our light bill, our water bill. Everything's monthly payments. Our car payment. We don't think in terms of price or true cost. We think, now, obviously, $220 a month doesn't sound like a lot of money. For 12 months, it's not a lot of money, but for 60 months or 72 months, months is a lot of money and you don't ever see the the term it's all spoken mirrors finally southern 441 Nissan the previous shop mystery shopping report would not provide anything

in writing agent thunder was told that an IT issue internet technology issue was preventing them from being able to print any sales documents they promised to email me the numbers but the numbers never came ever came. We vowed to return in honoring our promise, targeted Southern 441 Nissan again this week. They're on Southern Boulevard, right? Correct. West, out near 441. Way out in the boonies. From our perspective. Exactly. From their perspective, we're in the boonies. Exactly. Once again, the vehicle advertised was a 2000 new 2020 Nissan Rogue, but now the payment was just $94 a month. Keeps getting better.

So it was 128, they dropped it. They lied about the 128, now they're lying even more, but the $94 a month. You know, when you go so low, don't you think that people say this is silly? I mean, what if you said $1 a month? I think we did that one time. We ran and had the hometown news. New Toyota is $1, but we said we charged a $27,000 dealer fee. Just to make a point.

It was a performance. Sorry, it wasn't for real. Exactly. And just last time, the fine print indicated a sizable amount to pay a sign, just like the last time. Before reading the fine print, I have to point out that this was possibly the most difficult fine print to read. Tiny, blurry black print on a dark textured gray background was partially obscured by the web ads, navigation slider, images, white dots. I'm going to hold it up. It won't mean much to see. And by way, that's on that page. It's blown up a little bit.

When I was looking on the actual web page I got it from, I mean, I'm not a young guy, but I have pretty good eyes. I can read it. I can't read it. I can't read it. You're listening to the best of the Earl Stewart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to 772-4976530 or online at your anonymous feedback dot com and we'll answer it during our next live show uh it read plus tax title license an eight hundred ninety nine dollar dealer fee they actually called it a dealer fee there it wasn't they didn't call it dealer fee on the worksheet no they called it a duck so it's funny they call

their own fees different names depending on where you're looking i think these are standard disclosures that they copy and paste and i guess yeah then also said the blurry unreadable fine print $3,88 do its signing, 12,000 miles per year, zero security deposit required. They all say zero because it sounds good.

I think it's required. I think, yeah, I do think that's like there's a legal thing you have to say whether there is or not. I haven't seen a lease add with a security deposit. No, no. I mean, I haven't seen a lease that requires one. In the past, if you had like a credit issue, they would let you put down security

deposits to get approved. But I think it's required to say that, though. So it shows how on top of things our state government is. It's required to say zero to the security deposit when nobody is charging security device. That's obsolete. Passet. With approved credit, must finance with Nissan Motor. See dealer for complete details.

That's anything. Everything we said means nothing. See the dealer for the details are as the payment is really $300 a month. And the offer expires on April 2nd, 2020. So there was the big out-of-pocket, which was not inclusive of the big dealer fee, and which didn't include other hidden fees. Since Agent Thunder had been there recently, we gave him two cover stories. Very good.

He could use either one, depending on the situation. You've got to be fast on your feet, right? And Agent Thunder is fast on his feet. By the way, he had a baby last night. He mean his wife had a baby. Well, they had a baby. He didn't birth the baby personally. I'm glad.

And I, a boy or a girl? It's a boy. Well, they knew that. All right, yeah. Okay, here's the first undercover scenario, depending on the circumstances. If he sees Lloyd, that was the salesman that he saw the first time he missed his job. He's returned to try again to lease a new rogue, and is super excited to see an even lower payment advertised. And this is assuming, of course, that Lloyd wasn't watching the radio show.

Well, we take chances here. There's a certain amount of risk that we did. Scenario, too, if he doesn't see anyone from the first Mr. Shop, give his real name and proceed his noon. His real name, we used the phony name the first time. So speaking in the first person as if I were Mr. Thunder, I arrived in Southern 441 Nissan in the early afternoon. Place was dead. Nothing compared to the scene last month. I walked into the showroom and looked around.

No Lloyd was in sight. No Sal, the manager. I was greeted by Richard, and I launched into the scenario two cover story. I told him how excited I was to see a new car payment under $100. Richard was enthusiastic to help me and suggested we get started. We sat down to the desk. Richard asked to see my driver's license. He used it to enter my info into a computer.

He asked me to ask me some more questions than for my phone number and email address. It just occurred to me about this driver's license thing. Is there anything in the privacy laws that prevent car dealers from taking all that information on a driver's license and using it in some way? I don't think so. There's not, you know, obviously there's no Social Security number, but as far as conducting a transaction, you definitely will need an address and a name. Yeah. So I think it's okay. We talked about the ad. Richard, just like Lloyd, began by advising me that the payment required some money to. Real quick, they are obligate under law to protect that information, though.

They can't let that lay down on a desk. So they make a copy of a driver's license. They can't leave it out. It has to be underlocking key. And probably most car dealers don't adhere to that very well. Yeah, I believe it. And it was on the base model. He sure us we'd be able to find the one that I like for a great payment.

I told Richard that I was fine with a base model and said something. about new cars being very well equipped these days, and they are. I mean, base models used to be stick shift, no air conditioning. You're still going to get power locks when it goes, all that. Yeah, you get, base models not a bad deal today. Richard said he would do his best to get as close to the ad, but I should expect the payment to vary some.

Of course, we know which way it will vary. Same word, too. Isn't it amazing you just, you come in on it. Can you imagine going to buy a refrigerator? And you go in and you say, I want that GE refrigerator that you advertise on television. And the first thing the salesman says, well, we'll try to find you one close to that price. No other industry retailer would dare say that the advertised probably, naturally we're not going to be able to sell you the car of that price, but we'll try to come close.

I was fascinated that two different mystery shops, one month apart, two different salespeople, they use the same word, the payment may vary. I'm just picturing the sales meeting. Now, repeat after me. Payments may vary. Yeah. Payments may vary. Yeah. I waited for Richard to get the car for us to drive.

He came back, reported that was up front waiting for us with the air conditioning cranking. The test drive was entertaining, informative. Richard gets credit for good salesmanship. He made me want to buy from him, although the $1973 addendum on the car kind of killed my buying mood. Did you see what was listed on that addendum? What that $2,000 is buying? I didn't look at it in detail. Door edge and cup guard, window tint, leather guard, fiber guard, and paint guard.

Lots of guard. And that whole package is probably worth about $150. The window tint might be if it's a good quality window tint. The rest of it's worth zip. $19.73 for, let's be generous, $500. Yeah, being very generous. Back at the dealership, I was given the trial close. Richard won't know how I liked it.

If I'd like to take it home with me, I said, I think I might while pretending to suppress a smile. Richard asked me how much I was willing to put down. He said to get the ad payment, I would need something in the neighborhood of $7,000. Remember, we responded to an ad that all you could see was a monthly payment. And $3,800, in the pocket. And here we are. I pretended to be shocked. I don't know why he pretended. He should have been shocked. But he knew what was going on. I know. He knew the other. I know. I said I was hoping to keep it under $4,000. I mean, I knew I was going to get screwed, but I didn't know I was going to get screwed that bad. So Richard said he would print out some options for me. No IT issues today. Computers were working on the shop. He printed a worksheet for me to review. The right side broke down the purchase options.

And the left side had a grid that showed lease payments and various down payments, almost like a four-square kind of a nonsense thing. The purchase option showed a huge $6,950 discount off the MSRP of $25,530. But when the 1,973, a dentum amount, and that was for what Rick just itemized, window 10 and fabric card and leather coat and nonsense, maybe a $500 value. value, $1,973 a denim was added. Then they added $345.50 in taxable fees, another name for a dealer fee, or a hidden fee, and $899 a dock fee, which is a dealer fee or a hidden fee.

So the hidden fees are $12, $1,300, and the dealer installed accessories or the addendum, the under, overpriced, undervalue addendum. sticker. We're added before something called, oh, but wait, there's more. A worry-free lease. Worry-free lease and the amount of $1,699

was added. I mean, this is unbelievable. I mean, they have it all. The hidden fees, the non-taxable fees, and the worry-free lease, and the nonsense addendum label, Royal Palm Nissan, has it all. To quickly recap,

Richard discounted MSRP by $6,950, but then added back $4,916, before sales tax and tag fees. The lease matrix on the left side of the worksheet wasn't any prettier. With a $3999 down payment, the monthly lease would be somewhere between $244. Right, come on. What are we coming in on $194? $94. I came in on $94. He came in $94 a month with $3888 out of payment.

Now it's got the same amount, and now it's three times the amount. And then if you want to get the payment down, $4,99. Can we call that $5,000 rounded off? It would be $215 to $2.25. And the $5,000 with $6,000 down. It would still be double. The payment would be $186 to $196, and that's a range. They're not even giving you.

Yeah, more than double. Yeah. More than double the ad payment. Yeah, double. Of course, as none came close to the $94 ad payment, the bait, the bait, $94 a month. Even the option with $3999 down, close to $388 required the fine print, the payment was $150 more than the ad payment. Not even an attempt to be anywhere close. That sure did vary.

Yeah. I pretended to, yeah, a big very. I pretended to ignore the inclusion of the $19773 addendum, but I asked about the worry-free lease. Richard said it was a good idea to include it as it would protect me from charges most lease customers incur. He also pointed out I would make... I haven't seen this before.

You ready for this? For the worry-free lease, he was asking me to make buy monthly payments that would match my paycheck deposits. I said that wasn't necessary. Yeah, that's the smart payment plan. You can see it on the picture of the buyer's order. Yeah.

I mean, they're actually willing, they're going to go after your paycheck the minute it hits the bank and knock out the worry-free lease. I asked Richard if he could hold the car for him a couple hours. He said he would. I thanked him and said I was going to bring my wife back with me as soon as she got off work.

So as we suspected, and just like our last visit, the ad was pure bait and switch, probably the greatest bait and switch we've mystery shopped in a long time. Agent Thunder got a taste of just about everything the worst of the car business has to offer. Deceptive advertising, salesperson misdirection, huge addendums, and extremely valueless products for the endem, huge hidden fees and unwanted insurance products, being slipped in.

I've got some pictures here of the ad verifies exactly what I said about the fact that you can't read anything and you've got the addendum. I'm going to hold the addendum which is just as you look at it on the screen just to the left of the Moroni label and you can see how they tried to phony up

the addendum to look like it was part of the Monroney. That's the reason we call these addendums, phony and Monroney's. They counterfeit the Monroney label, which is a federally mandated sticker. And the logo and everything, the font, the color is made to make you think that the, this is the, this is the phony and that's the real Monroney. And they have them side by side. So you really think it's CMSRP, but it is not. I don't want to prejudice this by saying what I think of the shopping report

so let's get an idea of some of the votes that we have so far we have a William on Facebook gives him an F and then another William, a different William on text gives him an F we have a Lisa with an F a Mary with an F and a Bob with an F I think that's a consensus I'm failing them bad job bad job

Rick I've got Jose Huertas with a very big F Ed Overdyke with an F-minus, and for me, F. Well, I know Nancy is home with her foot up in the air and the boot on her foot. Did she vote? She's putting the boot. All right, I won't go there.

I'm sure I know what she's going to say. And Linda on Facebook gives him a big, fat, huge F. Oh, my goodness, she says. Yeah, I have a YouTube vote. Actually, we have one other question. If we can squeeze it in, if you think, have we finished here. Okay, let me give up. my vote is an F and I, you know, if you listen to the show regularly, I always struggle with Fs

because I hate to put somebody on the do not buy list. Because you're a nice guy. But with this kind of behavior, I would highly recommend you buy your Nissan other words, anywhere besides Southern 441. That is a terrible report. I don't know how many choices you have, but I would stay away from Southern 441. And if you're Southern 441 Nissan is listening, you know. You really ought to get your act together and not advertise and bait and switch like that. We're going to shop you again, and we will embarrass you again unless you change.

What you're doing is illegal, it's unfair, it's susceptible, and it's terrible. And we've only got a couple of minutes left. Can we do the YouTube question? Real quick, is George Lindsay is asking, which car is the better buy based on safety and reliability? A 2019 accord or the Camry? I'd have to look at consumer reports. I honestly don't know.

They're probably close. I'd say close. Yeah. I give camera at the edge, though. Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, well, they'll look at consumer reports, and they'll tell you very simply, which is the safest. And it could well be the Honda because they build a great car, and Toyota also builds a great car. You know, sometimes you just have to go with a car you like as long as they're all recommended.

Coke and Pepsi. And CHJ-229 says, Earl, do you ever mystery shop your own dealership to see if they're doing what you preach every week? Every week. We try to shop at least two or three times a week. And thank you all for joining us. And by the way, we get some bad jobs, too.

And we counsel and coach the salespeople when that happens because even their good honest dealership can have a rotten apple on the barrel. That's right. Thank you very much for joining us at Earl Stewart on Cars. And we hope Nancy Stewart, we believe Nancy Stewart, will be back with us next week. So it's another good reason to tune in.

All you ladies out there, and we'll see you next Saturday between 8 and 10. Bye-bye. Stay safe. You're listening to the best of the best of the Earl of the Programme. If you're listening to the best of the Earl Stuart on Cars program. If you have a question, text it to it to 7. 4976530 or online at Your Anonymous Feedback.com and we'll answer it during our next live show.