Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 100: Astros Pro Scouting Coordinator Kevin Goldstein on Being Inside Baseball

Episode Date: December 12, 2012

Ben and Sam talk to Kevin Goldstein about his life after leaving Baseball Prospectus to work for the Houston Astros, what he’s working on, and what he’s learned about how baseball teams work. Also, what he’s drinking.

So what the hell are we talking about? What are we talking about? Uh, I don't know. Just, uh. Okay. That's good. We pretty much already talked about all we know about baseball. Yeah, that's fine.

Good morning and welcome to episode 100 of Effectively Wild, the Baseball Prospectus Daily Podcast. In New York, New York, I am Ben Lindberg. Ball Prospectus daily podcast. In New York, New York, I am Ben Lindberg. Joining me as always is Sam Miller, who I believe is not in the Honda Fit tonight. Is that correct? I'm sitting a few feet away from it to get closer to my Wi-Fi signal. Okay. Well, our guest who is chuckling will be disappointed because the Honda Fit is his favorite thing. We hadn't planned anything special for this episode as of this afternoon, and then we decided to plan something special without actually planning much.

So our original idea was to have Kevin Goldstein and Jason Parks on without telling each other that they'd each be on. Parent trap style. Yeah. And then mute ourselves and just record them talking and release it as an up and in episode. But rather than do that, we decided to just have Kevin on. So hello, Kevin. Hello, good potato. This is weird. Yeah. Yeah, this is this is exciting. so we thought that we would start by by breaking down tonight's three-team trade uh you can see excerpts from scouting reports on all the players involved uh if that would be okay with you and all your bosses i don't think it would be

oh that's disappointing uh okay can i ask you actually, could I ask a question that is not about this trade at all, but is about all trades? And I think it comes up a lot on this show that Ben and I are sort of uncomfortable with our position of having to give opinions without actually feeling like we have the sort of insight or insiderness necessary to really fully judge these things. You now have been inside. You have a sort of a sense of what sort of unpublished information goes into moves. I just wondered, do you think it is possible for people like us to accurately evaluate any move? Is there value added to our job? If not, can we stop doing it?

I think there's no way you can have all of the information that you'd need to properly analyze it. I think you certainly can analyze it and probably have some insight or add some insight, but you're certainly always missing some information. The question I get, I've gotten a lot from people is like, what have you learned? What has been surprising since you kind of moved from being part of the media to working for a team?

And one of the biggest things is like, you know, MLB Trade Rumors, who, I mean, does an amazing job. We're all in the suite, like refreshing it every 15 minutes. Everybody else's, every team reads it. You guys all read it. It's constantly being hit. But you realize pretty quickly that the biggest kind of contributors, if you will, to that call, guys like Ken Rosenthal and then John Rossi and then Buster and Heyman, those guys,

and you add it all up and all the beat writers and you add everything they have up there, and you realize they probably got about 8% of what's going on somewhere around eight percent that's my guess and there's for every one thing you see there's 12 things going on that you don't know about but how much does any one particular team know about i mean you're that's a good question i mean yeah that we i think we only know what's going on with, with our team, really. You know, we certainly hear some Ruben stuff, but we really only know what's going on with the Houston Astros.

That's the only thing we absolutely know that's going on. But, you know, I am always surprised to see that, you know, there's always little things starting up and it could just be like the smallest of conversations that then, and, you know, a hundred things start, 10 of them actually get down a path at all and maybe one becomes real. And so that's kind of been a big surprise is how much actually is going on that, you know, before you just had no idea. I was like, yeah, I was actually going to ask you, did you, the second you got access to everything, did you go back and start reading years of old scouting reports just to see? Yes, I stayed up all night. Just to see what you go back and start reading years of old scouting reports just to yes i stayed up all night just to see what you're missing like oh man i wish i had known about that when i ranked that guy there it was like my i think it was like my second day and i said oh

yeah here's your password to all the to the server and all the reports and i just sat here all night and read scouting reports it's all i literally oh I stayed up all night. Almost you were, you were so well sourced though before, um, and well sourced within so many different organizations. Do you feel like you have a better view of, um, of prospects around, you know, around baseball now that you have access to the raw data or, uh, was it better when you got a little bit from everybody i mean are you limited by the fact that you're only talking to astros guys now not really am i the way i always put it is like you know if if you you know obviously i had a lot of sources but if i have constant access to our scouting group and and they're good i have way more access than i ever did before you know if i

have daily everyday access to to to our team of pro scouts as well as our amateur people, I have way more information than I had before. Just because the access is constant. You know, you didn't want to bug your sources that much before. You just hit them here and there. You talk to them, you know, whatever, once every couple of weeks or once a month and kind of go over what they saw. I have access to everything they're seeing right now. Everything. And it's more information.

they're seeing right now, everything. And it's more information. Do you think that the gap is bigger between what's out there publicly on the stats side or the scouting side? Is it possible to say, I mean, the best people on the internet doing analysis about prospects versus the best people on the internet doing analysis about stats? What's the bigger gap between what teams are doing and what the internet is doing? That's a great question. I haven't really thought about it. I mean, I will say, I mean, we do care about what's being written about our prospects and other prospects. I mean, I know I've been reading Jason's list and, you know, there's valuable information there because Jason talked to a bunch of people that are not involved with our group. And basically we're getting a sense for how the industry sees those players.

And that's valuable information from coming from a lot of angles. That's really valuable information on the stat side. You know, there's a lot of of relearning of things. There's a new language to learn. We have our own acronyms, if you will. We have numbers and names for numbers that mean something that you've never seen on a website anywhere.

They're just kind of internal in our little world and they mean a ton to us. And you have to kind of relearn what all these things are. And working with Sig and Mike, who head up our analytics group, Mike Fast, of course, from XBP, they're doing amazing stuff. But you do, at least I did, I mean, you have to relearn a lot of things. You have to look back and go, I don't even, I'm using this number all the time. I don't even know what that is. And get it explained.

You go, okay, I get that. And just get a general sense for how we're calculating it because some of it's above my math skills. But, you know, I think, and you'd really know each team has probably something like that. They have their own number, their own acronyms, their own measurements. And at the same time, every team has their own scouts and their own scouting information. You know, one of the first things I did was design our our pro scouting forum for for 2013 and then i did that in you know where i worked with with sig and mike to design it because there's aspects of it that uh you need we need to gather information that that they're going to be using the analytics group is going to be using and

that's something that we're doing it's really you know cool. But I don't know where the gap is. I just think the sense that we are a professional baseball team and our budget is bigger than yours means that we're putting a lot more resources into it, and therefore we have more information. So when you used to have exciting guests on Up and In, you would ask them to take you through a typical day in their life. So I guess we can do a typical day in the life of Kevin Goldstein, pro scouting coordinator.

I don't know what a typical day is yet. Well, typical day on the road, typical day at home, I guess. I have days at home. I went to our instructional league i did uh you know a little more than a week of coverage in the arizona fall league are you into calb right now by the way i didn't even ask yes right now i'm into cal the weather and into calvin the neighbors and cold and crap yeah um but so i'm home right now but i mean i did instructs in florida i. I did Arizona fall league coverage, like my first pro scouting assignment. Um, you know, I've had a few trips to Houston, obviously. Uh, I went to Nashville and, you know, we did the winter meetings. And so,

you know, there is no typical day. The one thing about your typical day is, you know, whatever's going on, chances are something could happen to turn into an atypical day. Um, and that's the thing. There's a lot of reacting on a daily basis. You know, things come out of the blue that you have to react to and become involved with and then state your opinion on, which is awesome, which is, you know, they're just totally great. I mean, there's been a lot of surprises in this job and a lot of things I didn't necessarily anticipate, but all of them have been really good, you know, and that's not supposed to happen. So I should probably shut up about it and sort of curse it. But, you know, there's not really a typical day. You always have a few tasks in the back of your

mind. You get as much as those in while constantly kind of dealing with the present and now of what needs to be taken care of right now. You know, things that are pressing, things that are going on, decisions that are being made. Those are that are going on, um, decisions that are being made. Those are always kind of upfront in the back. You kind of have this series of things you're trying to get done and get ready for. Um, and you don't have much time. I just, I mean, we got this press release today and I was like, Oh man, you know, pitchers and catchers report in 60 days, two months. I got, we have a lot to do in two months and so you know one of the great things about it is i mean someone asked me today are you overwhelmed and i said i'm

overwhelmed all the time and it's fantastic um so yeah i mean you you don't know what's going on and you don't know what's going to happen every day and i think that's one of the things that really appealed to me when i was making a decision to do this. This must be cutting into your Japanese RPG time significantly. You're just around the start time or so, 11 o'clock. Persona 4, big fan, game of the year. So I asked Jason if he had a question that we should ask you. I will not repeat some of the questions that he suggested.

But he said I should tell you that he saw John Turturro tonight at the Nets game and that he looked magnificent. His question, which I was going to ask you anyway, is what you miss the most about your faux fame. Not a ton. I actually kind of dig not being out there anymore um like you know obviously you guys know i used to tweet a lot and i just saw a tweet from someone in your timeline from yesterday where he was like you don't tweet anymore what's what's going on yeah what happened i still get those once in a while people like asking me about some prospect there's this one guy who asked me a fantasy football question every week he copies like real fantasy football

people like matt barry dspn and then for some reason i'm on it's like this week i'm like do you still get calls for radio hits and stuff because you were you're doing that 10 times a day yeah i mean every once in a while i'll still get like a tweet with a question about some guy and you're like dude i can't i don't do that anymore but it it it uh you know weaning off of it actually took way less time than i expected um you know it was a really big day it was a friday when when it got it came out and it got announced and um and it was kind of a it was kind of a wacky four or five hours with a lot of laughter and and and frankly some tears and it was it was emotional day

and and there was a i was watching a game on it was friday night it was a west coast game so it's very late. And something interesting happened, and I went to tweet about it. I went, oh, whoa, hey, whoa, whoa, I can't do that. And then by Sunday or so, I was done. I was good. I thought it would be much harder and take much longer. Yeah, I think the thing I miss the most is just kind of interacting with the fans. That was always kind of the most rewarding thing, especially – I'm not going to lie to you, Ben, and I don't want to hurt your feelings here.

I don't miss writing at all. I do miss the podcast. Yeah, we all do. It was great. But I still talk to Jason all the time. I saw Jason for quite a bit when we were in Nashville and we got to hang out for a bit on Wednesday night before the Rule 5. But I still talk to Jason. We just don't record it.

And so I miss maybe sharing that, but it's not like I miss the show that much because we have very long conversations about all sorts of things. It's just kind of our little show now. I was talking to a team source after Nashville who said that you were a winter meetings superstar would you would you care to comment based on what I don't know the snazzy suits I guess or you you reached across the aisle you're like the the internet guy who's inside and you everyone knows you and you I mean we have Mike Fast and there's all sorts of guys who started off doing this they're working for teams it's not i'm not the i'm you know it's not like

i'm the first guy to do it it's not like i've broken any ground um yeah i i wore suits for a reason which is i don't have in between i'm kind of stuck i don't have i have like what i'm wearing right now just like jeans and an indie rock t-shirt. Or I have suits. I don't have that middle ground. And so I wasn't going to wear this. So I wore suits. I'm actually very comfortable in a suit. And so I don't know.

I'm not a rock star. And I am uncomfortable with that sense in the sense just because I'm the guy people know, right? Because I was in the sense just because you know i'm the guy people know right um because i you know i was in the public eye and we have a whole front office of people you know crazy smart people that you don't know they're having huge impacts on what we're doing with the team you know i'm just and and i am just and very thrilled to be just you, a gear in the machine that that's hopefully doing my part. Was there any, I guess, skepticism or resistance from any quarter on the idea of an internet guy or a guy who kind of got his start on the internet moving right into your position, which was, I mean, pretty much unprecedented, I guess, obviously not within the Astros who hired you.

But I mean, was there any any feedback at all from people like this guy hasn't hasn't come up the traditional way that people who get this job come up or I mean, anything like that? I mean, it's Peter Gammonth wrote about some of them. You know, I haven't heard of them. They don't get in my face or anything like that. And I really think that they're a tiny minority. Um, I've, I've been nothing but well received from, I mean, obviously the Astros have been fantastic to me, but you know, from people in the industry in general, I've been nothing but really well received, um, really warmly both from, and a

lot of different people who I didn't know until I got the gig, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know that there's been some remarks made and I know and you know and I know gammon's wrote a few of them and and You know, there's a couple dirty looks here and there and I get it I totally appreciate it and I understand where they're coming from and You know the only thing I don't really I can't really care about the only thing I can do my job is to um you know the the only thing i don't really i can't really care about the only thing i can do my job is to you know make the the houston astros a better team as best i can and to and to help this team you build what we're trying to build here and it's a pretty big goal and that's really all i can worry about you know and right now you know based on where we're at i mean that that's

really the only thing i can focus on i don don't really, you know, I've done pretty well in my life, not really caring what other people think. So why start now? Has anything though, that you ever wrote about a prospect about an organization or about an executive? Has it has anything come up? Have you looked back and thought, you know, it's too bad that's out there in public? No, no, it's never, it's never come up. And you know what, honestly, you know it's too bad that's out there in public uh no no it's never it's never come up but you know what honestly you know even you know when i was writing about baseball every day and and obviously you know i was a professional critic that was my job um teams always took it well people i knew with teams always took it well you know even if i wrote something

you know like i don't like this move or i don't think this player is as good as they think this player is or whatever. I never got anything but really kind of respectful disagreements. I had in my decade or so, I had two what I would call real incidents with teams and both of them were resolved quickly, you know, and both were based on, on things I wrote. And, you know, when I think about the people who got in touch with me, really angry, really, really angry. Um, both of them are people who, uh, if I saw them in Nashville, I didn't run either, but if I saw him in Nashville, it'd be very much a very pleasant, how are you Kevin?

It's good to see you. Well, that's surprising to me because it was so well documented that you hated every team and all of and all of their prospects you think that would come back to bite you at some point now that you're working in baseball yeah it worked out pretty well actually people forget quickly i guess do uh do guys um uh i never can get a sense of how much um people in front offices actually read. Do they read? Do they read the stuff that's said about them? Do they read the stuff that's said about other teams?

Where do sort of the boundaries of what gets read and what don't get read fall? I mean, is it just the beat stuff or is it just the stuff, you know, like I know Mike Fast's thing on catcher framing got read because it was a massive, I mean, it's, you know, it was a humongous, massive thing, but are they reading day to day? What's on our site? What's on fan graphs? What's on other, other places? If it's about the Astros, yes. No question about it. And we actually, I mean, there's an intern who sends us an email every day of like, here's all this stuff that got written about the Astros today. I used to be that guy.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know know that you've had that gig ben um so you know like when when jason's astros prospect list came out it got emailed to everybody you know the whole front office read that and if you wrote something you know if we made you know an analysis of the way of the the trade we made with with wilton you know that kind of thing that would get sent to everybody if something had something happened at fangraphs orton, you know, that kind of thing that would get sent to everybody. If something had something happened at fan graphs or elsewhere, uh, you know, obviously all the beat stuff, like from, uh, from, uh, you know, Brian McTaggart, who's our MLB.com guy. Uh, and, and Brian, who's our Houston Chronicle guy, like all that stuff gets sent to us. Uh, after that, you're kind of on your own. Um,

we do get a roundup every day of kind of the news of the day, if you will. And here's all the news and the moves and the rumors and stuff like that in one email so we can all kind of scan that. But everyone's reading stuff, certainly, you know, catching up. I catch up on my lunch generally and that kind of stuff. But we are funneled to certain things to make sure we don't miss them. Do you have any more substantive questions, Sam? I believe the word is substantive. Substantive, yeah.

You've been such a pronunciation person lately. Yeah, I mispronounce every name that I ever try to say, so I figure I'm going to get mine on the words. Yeah, I just have one question, and it also has to do with evaluating trades or evaluating moves. There's a sort of an idea out there that teams know their prospects best and because of that, there's I think a little bit of a tendency to defer to teams somewhat, not entirely,

but somewhat if they trade a prospect, you consider it significant information. But we live in such an age of information with guys like you out there writing about these things. And certainly with 29 teams scouting heavily. So I just wanted to know how much of an advantage a team really has when it comes to their own prospects and whether that advantage sort of lessens the higher up the system you go and the higher prospects profile gets? I would say the advantage is actually pretty massive if you're doing it right. I think it's one of the most important things you can do as an organization is know your own system better than anybody else. That's absolutely imperative to running a good baseball operation. And, I mean, that's the thing.

We have so many data points. That's my phone, sorry. But we have so many data points on all of our guys. You know, we obviously have all the data, but we also have, you know, for every game they play, we have game reports. We have all of their coaches and managers who, and this is where, this is where this, this kind of the separating factor is just the fact that we know the kid a heck of a lot better than anybody could. every day and we see what the kids like we see how hard the kid works we see how the kid works with coaching and we see how the kid's progressing and we see what the kid's getting better at we see what the kid's going to get better at and we see what the kid's not going to get better at and you know we have more data we have more looks if you think about

you know you're staying like even a smaller minor league team, which has a manager and a hitting coach and a pitching coach. When you add that all up, that's 430 looks at a player over the course of a minor league season. Just those three guys. And so we have way more information on those players and we need to process that information right. But yeah, it's a huge advantage, especially on those kind of things that maybe don't get measured especially well on a data level in the sense that we know the kid. And that kind of stuff is really important when evaluating your own players. Sort of surprising any trade happens then. You know, I mean, having experienced my first trade while in Nashville, watching the mechanics of it is pretty remarkable.

And it's scary. And it's very easy to, you know, you think about, you know, when you play fantasy baseball or played fantasy baseball and these decisions you'd make. And I'd actually really fret over them. This is real and you know and even for the smallest of moves if you just think about big league minimum for a second you know if if jeff looks me in the eye and said hey should we get player x and i say yes i'm saying why yes houston astros you should invest half a million dollars into this player you know and it's it's again it's something that you have to pause a little bit and you better feel really good about saying yes or saying no so when i asked you to write something about a prospect and i looked you in the eye and said kevin can you write something about this

prospect for me it was not quite as momentous a moment for you yeah it was it didn't feel as heavy but yeah okay right um okay i guess if we've talked about the the serious business then i suppose we should bring back the up and in segment everyone's favorite oh just let it go away no we're bringing it back uh because people will be mad at us if we don't i think think. Um, you can make a point though. You can make a point. So you guys reached a hundred way quicker than we did, obviously. Yes. Yeah.

Uh, well normally cause you go every day and I think that's a good, I think it's, I think the show is really good. I do enjoy the show. I listened to it and, but you know, I think it's good. I see you shouldn't ask this. I think it's good that you've established your own thing. You've established your own brand and your own thing. I don't think you should call it a pass.

But I've got something prepared. Go ahead. Normally, our podcast is... Which is more proof that you actually are doing your own thing. Our podcast is so short that there's just not normally enough time to get thirsty. No, I understand. Our podcast is so short that there's just not normally enough time to get thirsty. So, Sam, are you drinking right now? I have a cup of tea. What sort of tea?

It's decaf Earl Grey. Decaf? Well, it's almost Sam's bedtime. Wow. You should drink some sleepy time tea i just said that because i really enjoy saying sleepy time tea well i am drinking some red wine uh it is called bully hill wine uh it is from the finger lakes region of new york and it is a unique mellow easy drinking wine with subtle fruit.

So it seems like a Kevin Goldstein choice. Yeah, with subtle fruit. But wine is fruit. I mean, right. True. And a soft finish. And it is it's recommended that you enjoy it with steak or pasta, which I'm not doing. What did you have for dinner?

I had some Thai food for dinner. Yeah, you probably got the wrong wine with that. Yeah, I guess so. But it does include a spectrum from dry to sweet, like a sort of indicator that you can look at to see where it falls along that line. And it is right smack in the middle. So it's a middle-of-the-road wine. And this is something that my girlfriend is a big fan of. It is very popular in Syracuse, New York, where she is from. Where they can't find better wine.

Right. And it retails for six something dollars. But it recently was hiked to seven something dollars. So we stocked up so as not to pay the the new price uh so kevin goldstein what are you drinking i just have a coca-cola i did have a steak tonight though should have got some of that wine you had but no i'm just drinking a coke i'm not it's it's it's boring i mean i it's not always boring you're actually past my bedtime now. How amazing is that? Yeah, you're a whole. Remember the 2 a.m. tweets? I get started at like 8, 8.30 now.

Like 8.30 is probably my average starting time. Wow. Like on a day at home. That's a big adjustment. Like 8.30, give or take 20 minutes. Yeah, that's an interesting way to go. Didn't you go off Coca-Cola? Didn't you give that up? Have you?

Yeah, you know, I did at times, but it's kind of snuck back in. Well, you need some caffeine at 830. And I do guess that that's the biggest problem is I don't drink coffee. Yeah. Or I don't drink tea. Well, you should have some sleepy time tea. I have a genuine disdain for hot beverages. Mm-hmm.

Well, I guess we're done here that was fascinating for everybody i don't know how we're supposed to follow this we could quit now or you could just come back every subsequent episode well you know i'll be happy to come on on your 500th episode oh i was gonna ask for a thousand i'll do that i'll do that the longer the better i'll do a thousand okay well that sounds good by the way we we we don't uh promote our podcast very much unlike kevin goldstein who uh who promoted his own podcast tirelessly um but every hundred episodes or so i guess we could say something about it. If you, I've been asked, I've been asked, so this is how this works. I mean, once you're, one of the weirder things about doing what I do now, it's actually worked

for a company now, like a big company with, you know, departments and HR and PR people. And like, um, like I did, like you wanted to interview my guy to make sure it was okay with our, with our, our media guys, Gene. I see that. How many, how many hoops did you have to jump through? I did. I like want to interview magic guy to make sure it's OK with our with our media guys. Gene, how many how many hoops did you have to jump through? I did. I like jump through a few hoops. Yes. I did. Like a reel from Gene. I had to let Jeff know. And then like the person who runs our Twitter account wanted to know, hey, can I tweet about it? It's going to get tweeted like out of the Astros Twitter account. Oh, wow.

Wow. When my pressure's on, man. Yeah. Wow. When my pressure's on, man. Yeah. Jeez. But yeah, it's that kind of stuff. You're like, oh, wait, what? And then so, yeah. So Kelly George, who like runs our our Twitter stuff, was like, well, I'll tweet it from the Astros account. Let me know when you're going to tweet it. I'll just retweet it. And you're like, oh, yeah. And it's just all this little stuff. Like, oh, yeah, I work for like a big organized company that does stuff like that. What are you saying about baseball prospectus? Nothing that's embarrassing. I mean, how many of the, you know, it's, we were, I mean, you know,

we were all, I think it's a secret. We were all kind of, you know, professional freelancers in our own way. And you do get like this, like, you know, all this kind of stuff gets taken care of for you. And it's, it's strange to adjust to. It was like, you know, when we went to Nashville, our traveling secretary, just like kevin this is your flight and kevin here's your hotel and kevin here's how you will get from the airport to the hotel and like stuff just gets given to you and and and taken care of that must be um it's fantastic um you know before obviously you know

we used to take care of all that stuff ourselves and And so it still at times kind of jars me like, oh, yeah, someone's going to want to know about that and do that. Well, I was just going to say the small housekeeping segment, and you could probably do this better than I could. But if you would like to rate and review us on iTunes where most of you listen to us, that would be helpful to us. Because we can see how many of you listen. And quite a most of you listen to us, that would be helpful to us because we can see how many of you listen and quite a lot of you listen and many more of you listen than have ever rated or reviewed us. We've never, we've never once. I mean, this is the first time they're hearing about it. They didn't even know this was an option. But now that you know if you can go to itunes and rate and review us it will make us seem more popular and more people will want to listen to us and

the itunes right or do you i expect this to be our biggest our biggest episode ever i would think see that's the problem is people are going to say, oh, that must be the biggest episode ever. And then they're going to hear this. Well, we've got your 31,000 plus Twitter followers are aware of it now, which is impressive, by the way. You've held on to your Twitter base. Which makes me assume, because basically I can't tweet about baseball. So every once in a while I'll tweet what I'm cooking. basically all you know i can't you know i can't tweet about baseball um so i didn't know every once in a while i'll tweet like what i'm cooking or i'll actually just kind of use it as kind of a a an open air im device you know what i mean um and yet people don't leave i would leave me in a

second on twitter i mean it's completely unless you want to see pictures of what i'm cooking or like watch me talk to mike farron or Jorge. It's almost useless to you, but people stick around. Well, I think the nostalgia is... I'll try to figure out some way to help them out in the end. Okay, I guess we're done. Those of you who sent us questions

to be answered in this episode, sorry we didn't answer any of them. It was Kevin's fault. We will get to them tomorrow and you can still send us some at podcast at baseball prospectus dot com. And thank you, Kevin. This was great. Thanks, guys. It was good talking to you. I do miss you. Yes, we miss you, too. And we will talk to you again sometime.