Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 1256: Grounds Crew Questions

Episode Date: August 14, 2018

Ben Lindbergh and Jeff Sullivan banter about Ben’s book activities, David Bote‘s exciting grand slam, Ramon Laureano‘s highlight throw, a few surprisingly (and not-so-surprisingly) streaking players, Taylor Ward’s call-up news, and a weird walk-off win in the minors. Then (26:10) they bring on Zach Ricketts, assistant head groundskeeper at the Oakland Coliseum, to talk about […]

Go on, be a spectator, see my field I discovered lightning in a jar Go on, receive me, it's my field. Be uncovered when you run so far. Hello and welcome to episode 1256 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from VanCrafts. And from our Patreon supporters, I'm Ben Lindberg of The Ringer, joined by Jeff Sullivan of VanCrafts. Hello. Hi, how are you? Welcome home. Lots of things. Bye. Thank you. Yeah, I'm home. I'm sort of sore because while I was away, I subjected myself to all manner of tests and activities that actual professional athletes subject themselves to,

which I won't go into all the detail because this will be in the book next year. to, which I won't go into all the detail because this will be in the book next year. But suffice it to say, I am not a professional athlete and tests have proven it. I now have the quantitative evidence to suggest that I am not equivalent to a professional baseball player in really any way, although I was informed that I'm pretty good for a writer. So I'll take it. Did you pass any sort of physical exam? I know Mariners beat writer Ryan Divish subjected himself to the preseason physical at one point

just to get an article out of it because it's better than writing some fluff story. So I don't want you to give up too much, but what was the idea behind what tests you were subjecting yourself to? Well, I'm writing a book about player development with Travis Sochik, formerly of Fangrass. Congratulations to Travis on his new job for FiveThirtyEight. And so the idea is that we are subjecting ourselves to player development to a certain extent. So I wouldn't say it was a physical per se, but it was certainly physical. There were physical activities that both of us underwent. And I'd say I represented myself fairly well, but a lot of these tests have comparisons, like the baselines are pro baseball players. And so when just a civilian comes in off the street and does one of these tests, even if you think you did pretty well, you then are quickly informed that, no, you actually did not do very well.

Professional athletes are professionals for a reason. They're pretty good at what they do. Did you think that you would do better at certain things? It'll be in the book. Look, everyone can wait. I guess that includes your podcast co-host. Yeah. Yeah. I can give you a sneak preview off the air. That's one of the perks of podcasting with me, maybe. So we have to talk. We are going to bring in a guest a little later, and it's a guest who does something that no other previous guest of this podcast has done, I don't believe. His name is Zach Ricketts, and he is the assistant head groundskeeper of the Oakland Athletics. That is not the assistant to the head

groundskeeper, but the actual assistant head groundskeeper he has also kept grounds for other teams in the past and we have a bunch of questions for him I have not to my knowledge ever spoken to an official groundskeeper although I guess I wouldn't necessarily know groundskeepers walk among us they look like anyone else when they're not keeping grounds but that'll be a fun conversation But we wanted to banter a bit about things that have happened this weekend in baseball Because there have been a lot of interesting plays There have been a bunch of highlights that were really weird and fun, right? There was, of course, David Bode

We've got to start by talking about David Bode And I know you have written about David Bodie, who, of course, hit a walk-off homer for the Cubs. And it was, what, two outs and two strikes and down three runs. And I have since learned that there is a term for this, or there are terms for this. I was not aware. I didn't know that either. No, I guess it doesn't happen often enough for us really to need a term. But I saw that many people have called it an ultimate Grand Slam. So that's something that I think Christopher Kamka on Twitter, he determined that this is the first ultimate Grand Slam to erase a 3-0 deficit since Sammy Bird did it in 1936.

Now, that is perhaps one qualifier too far the three nothing deficit i i guess it's cool that it was scoreless that it's your first runs of the game so that's a fact i don't know if it's fun though because you're obviously eliminating a lot of games and scores there so the more salient fact maybe is that this is, and this is, Rani Jazeerli called it a golden Homer. So I don't know whether it's a golden Homer or an ultimate Homer or whether everyone's just making this up as they go along. But according to Rani, this is only the third golden Homer in the pitch data era. So I guess going back 30 years, Chris Hoyles did it in 96 and Alan Trammell did it in 88 so

whatever you want to call it or however you want to qualify it this was a rare and exciting event a video does exist of the chris hoyles grand slam off mariners reliever norm charlton the video clip i saw was announced by mariners announcer dave kneehouse and it uh it ends abruptly those are always fun but so uh so bode hit his his ultimate grand slam in a two and two count. Hoyles was a full count. Alan Trammell, as far as we know, was a full count. So Bodie was actually in a slightly more difficult position because two and two count is hitter unfriendly. So that's kind of fun.

I had also never heard of ultimate Grand Slam or any of that. I also never heard of anyone complaining about David Bodie's bat flip, but it appears that he apologized for his bat flip. And now I wonder, is this one of those cases where there's blowback and we're only aware of the blowback and we assume that someone must have been mad? Because I don't know who was mad at David Bodie. Yeah, I still don't know. You figure that whenever there's a bat flip, there is some crotchety columnist somewhere writing about it or some radio host or something. But I still am not aware of anyone who was actually complaining. I just know that Bodie apologized for it. So I don't know whether that's because he saw a replay and was appalled at his own bat flipping

or whether he heard someone complaining about it. I don't know. Anyway, that is silly, I think, to be very excited about bat flips. I think at this point, I don't know, I'm over them to an extent if I was ever on them, but I think to be upset about them is even sillier. And this was kind of a cool looking one. It wasn't like the full Jose Bautista, but it was a pretty good one. And you can't really think of a moment that is more deserving of a bat flip than that. It was the 15th ever known walk-off grand slam

with two outs and you're down by three runs. 15, a lot of baseball history. It's like, this is exactly the home run that when you're like taking swings and you're a kid in your backyard or whatever, this is the home run that you hit. And if you you listen to the kids the kids hit these home runs a lot but you it sounds like you have something to say so please interject well it's usually not august 12th i guess when you're doing that fantasy but yes the situation in the game yeah

yeah i and i i was able to find i was running some win probability math. I was surprised. I don't know why this is. Maybe you do. I don't. I was looking through the most, the greatest possible win probability impacts by one single play. Because I kind of figured going into it that the two out grand slam down three to walk off the game would be the most you could ever do. am down three to walk off the game would be would be the most you could ever do and now by the math for some reason or the other hitting a three run home run with two outs down two uh for a walk off and the runners are on first and second that's like a fraction of a percentage point more valuable

i don't know why that is maybe there's just something about pitching with the bases loaded i don't know if this is empirical or based on theory i don't want to get into win expectancy math on on the podcast but in any case this is basically the most that you could do now the only the only way that bode could have made this cooler or more improbable short of doing in the in the playoffs was if he were in a different count and i did find a video i could find two cases of someone hitting a walk-off three runrun homer down two with two outs and runners on first and second. And I found one, the most recent was from 2007, and Marco Scudero hit it against Mariano Rivera in an 0-2 count. So that was actually like the most dramatic, sudden, astonishing, wild swing that I could ever find on one swing of the bat in win probability terms. That was pretty cool.

Yeah. I want count-specific win probability. If any nerd is out there, and I say that with love, who is looking for a research project or wants to build something that as far as I know does not currently exist on the internet, that seems like a fun thing. And there seems like probably enough data to do that now because we've got 30 years of pitch data and a decade of pitch effects or stat cast data.

So that would be cool to be able to see how the win expectancy changes based on the pitch. That would be maybe too much information for most people. But for us writers, I'm sure it would lead to a lot of interesting outcomes. So that would be nice. Someone work on that. Yeah. Day before David Bodie hit his dramatic walk-off, Ryan McMahon hit a three-run walk-off to beat the Dodgers.

That was very similar in win expectancy or win probability added terms. So the Rockies dealt a couple blows to the Dodgers, who had some blown saves this weekend in the absence of Kelly Jansen. So maybe that's not so surprising. But usually when a star player is out of the lineup, then it's easy to think, oh, the team is screwed. But then you look at the math and you're like, oh, this is going to be like actually a pretty modest impact

and the team can survive this. But the Dodgers were immediately punished for not having their star closure available because he had the gall to have a heart condition. So the Rockies were able to keep their season going, have some exciting moments. That was good for them. What do we need to know about David Bodie in general aside from this one swing because obviously he's been up for a little more for a month he's played 34 games and he's hit very well in those games even before the swing and he hits the ball really hard so is David Bodie good? He is, of course, what, 25. So that is not when you see a very promising player typically first come up to the majors.

But of course, the Cubs have had more than their fair share of talented position players. Well, stop me if you've heard this before, but Bodie in the minor leagues hit the ball pretty hard, but he hit the ball too often on the ground. And so someone was like, hey, you know, one thing you could do and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, fly balls hitting for power. So David Bodie, it's sort of a, I don't know very much about his defense. I'm given to understand it's pretty good. He's played a lot of second base in the past.

I think he's a perfectly adequate infielder. But he was left off a lot of, like, Cubs prospect lists even before this season. He doesn't make a ton of contact. He's not super disciplined or super aggressive, but he just seems like a guy who, if you give him 1,000 played appearances, he'll probably draw an average number of walks, strike out an average number of times, hit a slightly above average number of home runs,

and play pretty good defense. So David Bodie is 25 and probably now one of the more valuable Cubs on the team just because of how much control he has. And you think of this is a team that is without Chris Bryant, who just hasn't been himself all season. He's currently sidelined with a shoulder problem that I don't know when he's going to feel like himself. And here's David Bode, of all people, to pick up the slack. Baseball is a weird sport, you guys. And we have both learned only recently how to properly pronounce his last name, and now we will not forget.

Yes, that's right. All right. And what else? There were a couple other notable weird plays that happened over the past few days. There was one I guess we should discuss. I don't know if there's as much to say about it, but the Ramon Laureano throw for the A's. Speaking of yet another recently promoted player, Ramon Laureano, you've all seen the highlight, I imagine, but he completed a double play. He was in the outfield, he's on the A's,

and he ran back to the wall, made a nice catch. I think it was a 42% catch probability play, so good catch to begin with, but then his momentum carried him all the way to the wall. He finally got himself stopped and settled, and then he just uncorked a massive throw on the fly all the way back to first base where he doubled off, I believe, Eric Young Jr. deepest double plays ever, or certainly one of the more impressive plays. A lot of people have compared it to, you know, the famous plays, the famous outfield throws, Cespedes, of course, for the A's just a few years ago, or Jose Guillen, or I don't know, many others, Ichiro. It was in that class, I guess. For me, it was a little high and arcing to be in that class or to be at the top of the list. And I guess it had to be high and arcing to get that far, but it looked a little bit like a kind of a rainbow throw. I'm not questioning Laureano's arm strength at all because it was incredibly impressive, but just

aesthetically speaking, I think I prefer some of the other most amazing throws that are typically on that Pantheon. I think what's really, it's just a beautiful play for every reason you already mentioned. It's just fun to watch over and over and over. It's a beautiful throw. I don't know if Loriano could repeat it. He doesn't have to. He already did it once. That'll stick with him for the rest of his career. I love that in major league outfields, you can have an arm like that, or you can have an arm like Johnny Damon or Coco Crisp or Ben Revere, and they can still play those positions. I love that you can, like where else in baseball, maybe foot speed, I guess, because you can have like Brian McCann in the same lineup with Tony Kemp or whatever, but weird examples to bring up.

But just otherwise, you think an arm you think it would be a a big factor in who's going to be playing in the outfield but you can just have like an 80 or a 20 and i only wish well i guess you couldn't really have two people throwing at the same time but i want to find a video clip of the exact same play with like a vastly inferior outfielder trying to convert the double play because i don't know like would coco crisp even dream of trying to get the runner at first and if so how many times i think so bounce no the runner might tag if it was coco crisp and get to second but i oh chris davis chris davis even that would have been the best example to bring up because he's got the mental block yeah well. Well, you said that you don't know if Laureano can repeat it, and I don't know if he can either, but he certainly has

repeated outfield assists. I'm sure they didn't all look like that, but he already has three in the Oakland outfield so far this year, just at the major league level. He's only played six games, and he has three outfield assists for the a's at the major league level he has 13 outfield assists at triple a this year god 64 outfield games so yeah guy has an arm and last year in the minors he had 16 assists also he had 12 and 26 and it looks like all right so dude's got an arm i don't know anything else about him it looks like he can uh he can run pretty well looks like he can hit the ball pretty looks oh actually he looks like he's a pretty good player well anyway we'll see what the a's have in ramon loriano it could be their center fielder but yeah that's a it's a good way

if you're if you're loriano if you're ryan mcmahon who hit the the home run if you're a Laureano, if you're Ryan McMahon, who hit the home run, if you're David Bote, this was not only a good few days for memorable plays, but also for players to arrive on the radar. So they're like memorable plays by players you weren't thinking about. That's pretty cool. hot streaks. I mean, Chris Sale right now is about as dominant as I can remember a pitcher being over a stretch of 10 starts or so. He's been amazing. Ronald Acuna is now on fire. Derek Rodriguez has been really effective. Is Derek Rodriguez someone that we actually need to be aware of as a player who is not just Padre Rodriguez's son, but a player in his own right. I know he has somewhat exceeded expectations so far this year, but he has been extremely effective. I don't know. I don't know that much about him. I'm not going to lie to you. Yeah, that's okay. Derek Rodriguez, he's got 14 games, 12 starts for the Giants this year, and he has a.225 ERA with a.308 FIP. He has been really, really good, and I don't ace he is currently pitching like. He is 26 himself, so he's kind of come out of nowhere a little bit, but he has been amazing too. And by the way,

Clay Buchholz is good again too. I don't know. Baseball is really weird right now. Okay, so I have to know that he's in the majors because I'm in charge of the Diamondbacks depth chart, but I also clearly have no recall for having put, like, I'm looking at it right now. He's on the depth chart. I've put him there. I'm the one responsible for that. No idea. 267 ERA, whatever. I don't know what's going on. Yeah. 11 starts, 267 ERA. Peripherals are not that amazing, but still Clay Buchholz. He hasn't been good since 2015 and he's barely been healthy for a lot of that time. So yeah, a lot of weird names just coming out of the woodwork right now and doing very impressive things. Clay Buchholz, 33 years old, sub three ERA. Felix Hernandez, 32 years old in the bullpen because he's terrible.

What a year to be alive. I have a couple of quick things to mention. There was, of course, the other weird, completely unexpected thing that happened over the weekend was that the Seattle Mariners, who were bad, swept the Houston Astros in four games in Houston, which was weird. Edwin Diaz also got saves in all

four games. I don't remember the last time I ever saw that happen. That's extremely uncommon. The Mariners are now presently 12 games over their Pythagorean expectation. So whatever, they're just, they're doing their thing. If you have anything to say about the Mariners, say it now, because otherwise I'm going to move on to the next thing. Isn't their run differential like negative 20 something now? Negative 22, I believe. If that's correct, I'll stop my head yeah i think it is

yeah so the mariners currently uh they the mariners have baseball's sixth best record sixth best record overall that's wild they have a worse run differential than the rockies although maybe that doesn't tell you much because the rockies are also overachieving they're eight games over 500 but the mariners have a run differential of negative 22. The Minnesota Twins are at negative 33. So whatever. This isn't a new talking point. We've talked about this forever. Who knows why it's happening, but it's a good thing that it is, I guess, because it's more entertaining. There's kind of an AL West race even. I don't really expect there to be by the end of the year, but for now there is, so that's exciting. Yeah exciting yeah right we've been expecting the astros to pull away for how long and here we are

so whatever they're down lance mccullers they're still down jose altuve they're down the other one george springer so uh okay so moving on the just quick one-off there the angels have a prospect he's a third baseman at a catcher but mostly a third baseman his name is taylor ward he's listed as number 99 and just as a throwaway taylor ward has been promoted on monday the angels are calling up taylor ward from triple a salt lake and that news was broken by a reporter named taylor ward so that's weird i saw it on rotoworld i saw the angels are calling up prospect third baseman taylor ward from Salt Lake reports Taylor Blake Ward. So I guess the Blake is to differentiate. I wonder if Taylor Ward, the reporter, was tipped off.

He's not someone who I know to break Angels news. So I wonder if he was tipped off just because of his name. I don't know the answer to that. I won't know the answer to that because I'm not going to pursue that. the answer to that. I won't know the answer to that because I'm not going to pursue that. And the last thing that I will bring up

because we have our guests coming up soon is I don't know when we first talked about whether or not the Orioles or the Royals would win more games than their managers

have years in their age. But Buck Showalter is 62 years old. The Orioles are 35 and 84. I think they won last on opening day. I don't know if they've won a game since then.

The Royals, Ned Yost is celebrating his 64th birthday on August 19th. Happy birthday next Sunday, Ned Yost. Unfortunately, your baseball team sucks. They're 35-82. That means they're a game better than the Orioles, two games better than the lost column. But so Ned Yost will end this season 64. Buck Showalter will end it 62.

According to Fangraphs, the Royals will end this season projected for 54 wins. The Orioles, 52. I didn't prepare a follow-up remark because I was going to leave time for people to throw up. Yeah, it's not even close with the win totals and the age totals. It's going to be plenty of room to spare there. It is really bad. But as we've already discussed, I wrote about combining those two teams

and trying to make one good team and couldn't do it. Can't be done. No. Last thing I wanted to mention, since we were talking about the category of weird walk-offs, we should probably acknowledge the maybe even weirder walk-off that happened in the minors over the weekend which is uh i assume you saw i think it was friday's class a game between the burlington bees and the

wisconsin timber rattlers did you see this i did not do the ninth oh well you must i will uh link you to it so that you can watch it quickly so this one may be a little less dramatic than the David Bodie walk-off, but certainly no less thrilling. So this one, Burlington was up 6-4 over Wisconsin. Bottom of the ninth, two outs, 0-2 count. Bases were loaded, and the Timber Rattlers left fielder was at the plate. He struck out on this 0-2 pitch. Should have ended the game, but baseball has a strange rule about uncaught third strikes.

And he not only was not out, but the Wisconsin Timber Rattlers ended up winning the game, walking off on this strikeout. Walk-off strikeout, down by two runs, because the pitch was wild. The pitch was, like, in the dirt. Could have been blocked, but wasn't. And not only did that pitch get away, but then the throw to first got away. It just went all the way to the wall, as they used to say on SportsCenter.

And the paces were cleared, and that was that game over so i'm watching and so the the throw comes in the futile throw from from the right fielder to the catcher who applies a tag the catcher or the catcher and the pitcher both for a bit think that they have the last out to at least extend the game into the 10th inning which if you're in the minors just let the game end anyway but yeah they think for a moment that they have at least one out recorded so that they can move on and the catcher just he kind of looks up and he walks away the pitcher has his hands behind his head he's just like standing by the mound looking away and then the other team starts to celebrate, which they're totally entitled to do, but they celebrate and they get closer and closer and closer to the pitcher, such that their

celebration nearly envelops the pitcher who has his back turned to them. Like, I'm watching them dogpile, and I swear there might not be one foot of distance between the guy who they're celebrating around and the pitcher in the infield now i don't know how much the pitcher cares because of course no one is evaluating the minors are about player development right this is just the fundamental point it's not about winning clearly it's fun to win everything is a competition it's nothing if you're not competing and trying to win but it feels like if for this to happen in the minors it's a lot easier to flush than it would be if this happened in the majors, because that would just be really embarrassing and the wins and losses matter. But I wonder how long it does still take to flush this, because now think about the implications for the pitcher's that point and strike out the last batter with the bases loaded of a two-run game and you think it's over but then you think well but it's not over anything could happen you could get the best possible result of this swing but we could still lose which makes it maybe more difficult to throw that strike to get that wave in the first place or

maybe it's more difficult for the catcher to block a pitch down there in the first place so this this could be no pun intended this could be, no pun intended, this could be rattling around in a few brains moving forward. Because this, as much as the loss doesn't really matter, probably that you can't, you'll never forget being involved in that kind of play. So who did they celebrate a round? The game winning runner?

Is that who it is? It's usually the person who scores the run, right? Or it's, I don't know who it was. It was the batter who reached. The batter who struck out seems to be the person who scores the run right. Or it's a, I don't know who it was. It was a batter who reached the batter who struck out. It seems to be the person they celebrated around. Whatever, man. All right.

Sure. Baseball is drunk and we like it. So we'll take a quick break and we will be back with Zach Ricketts, assistant head groundskeeper of the oakland athletics All right, so as promised, we are joined now by Zach Ricketts, assistant head groundskeeper for the Oakland Athletics. He is talking to us from underneath Mount Davis in the Coliseum a few hours before first pitch. The Mariners are in town to try to win by one run, as they often have this season.

The A's will be trying to stop them, but whatever happens, they will be playing on a field that is tended to by Zach. So, Zach, welcome to the show. Thank you. Glad to be here. So, walk us through what your day has looked like today, or now as we speak to you, just about two hours and oh 20 minutes or so before first pitch what have you done what do you need to do what is your schedule looking like today yeah well today has been a little bit more of a normal day compared to the last few i think everybody came in a little bit early came in at nine o'clock and we filled divots

uh just kind of walked the field for any little debris. And then kind of did our first day of normal stuff, just a regular mow, just kind of getting the dirt finished up. A lot of the mound work, just fine details. So we're a little bit more on a regular schedule today. So it feels kind of nice after the weekend and you just had a road trip right so what was going on when the a's were in anaheim yeah so so right away right after the game wednesday night we took our mounds out all so all three our game mound and both bullpens uh we got those out we got our there's like some holes out in the warning track that we have to dig for the uh when they move the bleachers around so we kind of got got those done and i think we're here till like 3 a.m would have been thursday morning and then uh pretty much full day thursday super long day friday football game friday night and then uh the craziness starts to get it back to baseball Saturday morning. So a lot going on, but definitely fun.

So I was going to ask, if Ben arrives, if there's a lot of breaking news or there's some sort of major event or just our writing gets behind, we can have a stressful day, but I was going to ask, what would be a stressful day for you as an assistant head groundskeeper? What pops up? Yeah, for us, I mean, this has happened. If your equipment breaks down or you have irrigation issues or, I mean, for us, some of it's out of our control. It might be the people who are moving the bleachers, if their equipment breaks down or, I mean, a weather event. Like if we tried to do this changeover, if it was raining,

that could be something that would be definitely a little stressful. I guess different than the normal people's daily stress. Yeah. Well, you're in sort of a unique situation. I mean, the Coliseum, of course, is the only remaining stadium that houses both an NFL team and an MLB team. It is not the newest facility in the country. And as has been publicized, there are occasional issues related to that age and plumbing crops up from now and then. Is this looked at as one of the more challenging

groundskeeping assignments in sports for those reasons? Yeah, I would say so. I mean, just the fact that you're playing two professional, you know, sports with the NFL and baseball, the only ones left. So, I mean, that in itself is pretty challenging. I would say, you know, a lot of the guys that have been here through it all for a long time, they've adapted to what you need to do. And I found ways to get around some of the, you know, some of the problems that come up from a multi-use stadium. So it's

definitely challenging, but sometimes that can be fun. Like anyone else, I have to imagine this is your full-time job. You certainly take pride in your work. So do you find it kind of difficult or frustrating if you explain to someone what you do and where you work? And is it easy for you to make sure that your work is separated from the environs in which you conduct your work because of course the stadium itself isn't your fault but for a lot of people they might just kind of think stadium and the grands are one and the same yeah yeah i mean that that happens a lot of times when people kind of generalize that it's all the same but you know on a daily basis you're always just trying to do your best i mean whether it's i mean i'd work to the stadium in the minor

leagues it was similar it wasn't up to date it was kind of older and you just try and do what do your best. I mean, whether it's, I mean, I worked at a stadium in the minor leagues, it was similar. It wasn't up to date. It was kind of older and you just try and do what you can. And that's kind of what you have to focus on. If you focus on all the other little outside things that are kind of, kind of can wear you down. So just taking it one divot at a time, it sounds like. Yeah, exactly. So I want to ask about your history because I know a lot of our listeners want to know how you end up doing this job. So you went to Knox College, and I think you were a multi-sport player even then.

So you were preparing for your multi-sport existence. You played baseball and football. And then you've bounced around, as I assume that lots of groundskeepers or aspiring groundskeepers do. You were with the A's for a few years at their facility in Arizona. But before that, you were with the Beloit Snappers in the minors. You were an intern, a groundskeeping intern for the Brewers, for the Red Sox. You worked at Fenway for them. You worked for the Burlington Bees.

So you've been all around. So how does a groundskeeper advance? Because if you're a minor league player, you know, you have to hit the ball hard or throw the ball hard. And eventually that will be noticed and you will be bumped up the ladder. How do you get promoted if you are a groundskeeper? Do you just need the grass to be greener than it is anywhere else and someone will notice? Yeah, I suppose that and making sure the field's flat. I mean, if someone likes playing on your field and wants to be there, people start to notice and I guess word spreads around and

you go from there. But yeah, I mean, it's similar to a player that kind of started at lower ranks. And I mean, you just kind of take any experience you can get, you know, whether it's minor leagues, major leagues, places with events and whatever you can do to just get more experience under your belt. the game itself is conducted. But one of the ways I know there's, there's been talk of like the grass length in San Diego affecting the, the speed of the ground ball. And I was wondering who actually makes the decision about how high the grass is on a baseball field. Is that your call? Is it commissioner? Is it team? Where's it, where's that coming from? Yeah. I mean, that's basically, you know, a groundskeeper kind of working with, with the team. I don't know.

I think a lot of that stuff's kind of blown up a little bit. It's not really as big as what some people might think. But if you work with your coaching staff and your players and just kind of get a feel for what they like, I think usually it's not a problem. And as the assistant head groundskeeper, what does that entail exactly? Do you have an area of specialty or are you overseeing a lot of different things um i think it's just a more rounded type job i mean you gotta see you know what's going on on the pitcher's mounds you have to see what you know

the dirt the grass you know some of the stuff that we're doing is making sure our guys are scheduled and and stuff like that that you wouldn't really think about. So there's a little bit. I mean, like following the weather, you've got to definitely watch weather. So there's a little bit of everything, just a more rounded position. We're all friends here. This is a professional setting. It's really easy from our perspective or from a fan's perspective

to just kind of take the condition of the field for granted, of course. But what is your relationship with like the the players the coaching staff do you feel like the you were i know this might be weird to kind of maybe potentially air grievances on a podcast but like do you do you feel like you and and your colleagues are are appreciated by the people who would be in position to know what kind of difference you make? Yeah, I would say definitely. And, like, I've worked with different organizations, and that's one thing that's kind of drawn me to this organization is it's a different feel.

Like, the players, the coaches, nobody kind of acts like they're better than anybody else. Everybody treats everybody the same. They're our friends, I would kind of say. It's kind of fun just to see different guys. And there are other organizations where it might not be the case. So I think they understand what we go through with the changeovers, and they're pretty good with that. I think I read something about you coming up with your own minor in college that was related to groundskeeping.

What did you study to become a groundskeeper? How do you distinguish yourself? What I did was environmental studies was my major. So it was a lot of the same science type classes. I mean, I got biology and plants and weather classes and stuff like that. And then I just created a minor and called it field management. Just did a few independent studies and i think my best grade in college was an art class that i did uh grass designs so i just go around campus

and put designs in the grass that's probably my best grade in college and have you done that in the field in oakland i don't know whether you have a lot of patterns that are mowed in there or what the process for that exactly is. Generally, I would say here in Arizona, you kind of keep it pretty standard and you want the players to be familiar with it. Because sometimes if you have a pattern that kind of goes odd directions, the ball can actually snake along with the grass pattern. So you really don't want to get too crazy with it.

I remember like in the minor leagues, like in the off season, I might, you know, right after the season's over, do something crazy just for the fun of it or something like that. But it's kind of when you're younger, you're just experimenting more and having fun, but actually have to worry about the way the ball's going here. Yeah. So at least toward the end of last year,

when you were first told that you were hired by the A's to be the assistant head scrant keeper in Oakland, you were sort of overlapping doing two jobs at once because you were also tending to the, what is it, the Lou Wolfe complex down in Mesa, Arizona. I think I have that right. Yeah. While of course, between Arizona and California, the climates aren't super different. I was wondering what sort of differences there are in your day-to-day work, just because of the way that conditions are. What were you doing in Arizona or Oakland that you wouldn't have to do in the other place? So a lot of it's the same. It's just the main difference was there's a lot more fields in Arizona. So you can't really sit on one field and spend your time doing as much detailed

work. It's more spread out. So, you know, sometimes as tough as it is, you kind of have to let something go or not necessarily let it go, but trust that, you know, one of the guys is going to take care of it that's, you know, on that field a little bit more than you are. So, I mean, it's just a lot more spread out. I feel like you're going from field to field a lot. And it's hot in the summer down there. Very, very hot. So, as Jeff mentioned earlier, one of the questions we get a lot is about ways that you could potentially tweak the field or manipulate the field to help your team or hurt the opposing team. And as you're saying, that stuff is probably overblown at least today, I'm sure it is. But what level of oversight is there? Like one question we got is, you know, what if you have a great base running team and you just decide, I'll just make the bases, you know, 89 feet apart instead of 90 or something like, what if you did that? Like who would notice that you did that?

Who would say, we caught you, you've got to go back? I feel like a lot of that stuff is just mental. If you were to tell a player that the base is 85 feet away, they'd believe you and they'd think they're faster and they'd think they got a shot at stealing bases when in all reality it's 90 foot and they wouldn't know. It's kind of funny how some of that stuff works. I think a lot

of it is mental is there like mlb oversight like the umpires come out and measure the mound or how are there inspections like how do you know it's up to code yeah uh they'll come out it's usually about once a year and they'll check everything and then if you're in the playoffs they'll check it a little bit more uh tightly they'll make sure everything's the measurements all work out and the pitching mound's right height and stuff like that so and what kind of equipment is involved i mean i've seen you know people making the baselines with that rolly thing that has the the paint come out behind it i'm sure that's not the technical term but uh what kind of equipment or machines are used in baseball groundskeeping that we might not be aware of? We got all kinds of

equipment. I mean, one of the things that we're using a lot to measure out everything, we use a laser at the beginning of the season when we grade everything out. So we kind of actually hook it up to a receptor on the tractor. So you can get a pretty good measurement of how flat your field is. So that's one of them. Trying to make a stuff you wouldn't know about. I mean, obviously we have the mowers and the roller and all kinds of little hand tools. It's amazing what stuff that they come out with now. One piece of equipment I guess I forgot is our mound mover.

Not many other places have an actual mound mover. Tell us about the mound mover. Yeah, it's a pretty heavy-duty thing. It almost looks like the size of the back of a semi-trailer. It's got a couple hooks on it, and you lower them down. There are actually four hooks, and you can pick up the mound and move it out wheel it out for a football game and wheel it back in so that's what we've been doing the last few days so the mound is like not attached to the field or how does it reattach nope it's on it's on a pretty sturdy platform uh all the dirt's right on top of it. And there are these metal hooks

that are underneath the dirt. So we have to dig them out around the hooks. And we just use a winch that pulls it up out of the ground. Just once, I'm hoping that you leave the mound in there for a football game just to see what happens. But one of the common critiques or criticisms that people levy toward Major League organizations

with regard to the minor leagues is that major league organizations don't pay the players enough money they make a pittance some of them struggle to make a living is it the same with the equipment that they have at minor league stadiums or like how much of an upgrade did you observe when you actually got to work in a major league park relative to when you were attending minor league fields yeah there's definitely a huge upgrade i mean one of the places i worked was you know kind of bottom of the line budget wise as far as equipment so we were we were getting pretty creative trying to think of ways to get certain pieces of equipment in or fixing old stuff and you're borrowing it from the city

just you know whatever you can do to get, get something here and there. So it can be tough to start out, but I mean, at the higher levels, they understand that, you know, the player's safety is a huge concern when you're paying guys that much. So, you know, they make sure that we have the right equipment. And you've worked at all sorts of places. You worked at Fenway, which is obviously as old as they come, although recently renovated. And I assume you worked at Miller Park, which is obviously as old as they come, although recently renovated. And I assume you worked at Miller Park, which is fairly newish. And now you're working at the Coliseum, which is on the older side too, and has had its issues. I mean, what are the differences like,

you know, drainage wise, or just in terms of challenges aside from the multi-purpose facility aspect of things? How is it better or easier to be a groundskeeper in a state-of-the-art facility? Yeah, there are some differences. I mean, it's funny how I do see similarities between Fenway and here. It's just things that when they built the stadium that they wouldn't do now. Like one of the issues we have is when they clean the bleachers, there's little holes, there's gaps where all the sunflower seeds and peanut shells come down. So we have to spend a

lot of time raking those up. And then like Miller Park, it's all concrete, so you'd never have to deal with that. So it's kind of frustrating at times, but it's what you got to deal with. So now I know I have a little bit of a pitching background. So I remember you, a pitcher goes out there on the mound and you kind of dig in, try to get yourself comfortable. Do you recall, have you had people who were, let's say, especially picky with what they're looking for out of a mound? Or like, do you get mad at people if they just like really dug in, dig in there and like dig some kind of trench? What kind of maintenance, how consistent do you have to keep it for people between innings, between games?

Yeah, I mean, every day you're trying to pack it as tight as you can. And it's tough because one guy wants a little hole on one side and one guy doesn't. It might get in his way. So occasionally a guy will want you to fill the hole or something. But we had a player once that he called us out in the middle of the game we went out to fix it and he said yeah i'm not pitching too great today i just wanted to find something to blame it on maybe this will work we're like okay whatever and do you guys hear a lot from

players whether positive or negative comments whether it's just hey the field's looking good or hey i there's a bad hop over here you know fix it or whatever do they give you a lot of feedback yeah they do uh i've i've been lucky because the minor league team i was at in beloit was a single a of uh of the a's so i've known like matt chapman and matt olson for like six seven years i. I had him there. I had him from time to time in spring training. So that, you know, it's easier when you get a good relationship with these guys, you can talk to them on a daily basis.

Like, you know, how's that plan? They're pretty good about giving us feedback. Tell us what they like and how they don't like fields. And yeah, I mean, Matt Chapman uses the entire space of the ballpark and there's a lot of it there because it's the Coliseum and there's a ton of foul territory. How does that affect your job? It's definitely different. In one way, it's a little bit easier because there's more room for guys to run around and warm up. And so the grass doesn't get as beat up as if you had a small area.

So it's easier for media and people to be out there. It takes a lot longer to mow in the morning. A guy that walks the sideline area, he definitely has a lot more mowing to do. This is sort of an instructional question, but just for the hell of it, I don't have a lawn. I'm a blogger. I can't have a lawn. But my brother's more of an I don't have a lawn. I'm a blogger. I can't have a lawn. But my brother is more of an adult.

He has a lawn. And my brother has always been fascinated by stadiums, by groundskeeping. So he tries to mow stripes into his lawn like right now, just patterns. And so for anyone who's interested in like mowing patterns or stripes in their lawn, who's at home, who's listening to this, who's doing better than I am and than Ben is, what advice might you have for, because I assume you can't just do that with a regular mower without any sort of attached device. Yeah, usually they don't have the right tools on the mowers. I mean, one thing, obviously, if your grass is healthy, it's going to stripe better. And if it's a little bit longer, it's probably going to stripe better too.

But the way we do it is we have heavy rollers on our mower and it's just bending the grass two different directions and the way the sun reflects off of one direction and then is absorbed by the other so uh a roller works uh i've seen people use brushes brooms just anything that can stand the grass one direction and then come back and stand at the other or push it down actually so you can get pretty creative do you have a fastidiously kept lawn of your own at home or are you like hell no i am not cutting grass when i'm at home that's my day job yeah i'm actually trying uh it's like when the team's at home it kind of goes down a little bit in maintenance and then when the team's on the road i can kind of goes down a little bit in maintenance. And then when the team's on the road, I can kind of keep it a little bit better.

But it's funny. We actually had a couple of small scraps that we just took off the field from the changeover. And I got like a three-by-three-foot section. I think I'm going to throw it in my trunk and hopefully saw it at one of these nights. But I tried to. I got a tiny little one. But it's nice just to sit out there when you're not at work and relax. Yeah.

What is the most challenging situation you've ever faced or the roughest condition you've ever had a field in, whether because of weather or red drought or a special event or what? Just what was the hardest time you've ever faced as a groundskeeper? Definitely, there's been plenty of rain type events where the field's wet and you're trying to dry it out i can remember a couple two or three years ago we had a wet spring in arizona and it was like the first two days the big league team was reporting so we spent a lot of time you know just trying to get them ready like half hour beforehand we're raking it and pouring conditioner on it and just trying to do what we

can that that was one time and then i think a couple years ago i came up here for one of these changeovers and it was an overnight one i think football one night and baseball the next and that that was pretty crazy so that just any time you're going one day one sport and the next another sport it's it's pretty crazy. When you are meeting somebody you haven't met before, you're just meeting an acquaintance or a stranger, making a friend, anything, any sort of personal interaction. Somebody doesn't know what you do and then you tell them what you do. Is that the kind of thing that leads to a lot of follow-up questions? Do people express a lot of interest when they find out you are a major league grandkeeper or are they kind of like, like cool and then not really know how to follow that up

a lot of the people i talk to are kind of like man that's that's a different job not too many people have that job that's interesting and there are a lot of questions a lot of the similar ones about putting stripes in the grass and all that but it's kind of neat you know when people are figuring out how it all works are major league groundskeepers the best of the best? Like, is it comparable to, you know, major league players versus minor league players, major league groundskeepers versus minor league groundskeepers, whether it's just skill or experience, or is it less of a meritocracy than baseball itself tends to be? I would say it's a little bit less.

I mean, there are definitely some really good minor league groundskeepers. Honestly, some of the major league guys, myself included, might be the craziest just for wanting to do the full schedule and the events and stuff like that. Sometimes I'm like, do I really, you know, am I really wanting to do this? But it's definitely fun. So, and, you know, am I really wanting to do this? But it's, it's definitely fun. So, and you know, football guys are great too. There's, you know, there's all kinds of really good groundskeepers out there. So it wouldn't necessarily be true, but. Is a concert just the bane of your existence? Is that the worst that it gets for groundskeepers? Do you hate to see concerts or fireworks? Is there some specific event that is just like, oh no, do we have to? Yeah, I mean, concerts are similar to these football changeovers, except you don't have a game going on.

But concerts are definitely tough. I mean, nowadays, it's like everybody kind of realizes that these teams have to do it. It's part of their revenue stream. So you're going to try your best, do what you can, and know that if it's not perfect, that's okay because they have to get these concerts in or events or whatever they're doing.

Between the group that you work with and that you're a part of and like any other, I don't know, the Giants or the Angels, just any other crew that tends to field, are there are there significant differences in how different crews approach different fields or is it are you all kind of applying the same principles and techniques just in different stadiums around the country a lot of it's the same general things that goes on but there are so many little details that guys do stuff different and it's i've been lucky being able to work at all

these different places and it's cool to see like you know this guy might do the finishing touches on a mound one way or another guy might do it different and there's no real good way or perfect way or this way's right you know nothing like that it's just personal preference and for me it's fun to see all the different ways to do stuff. Is there a lot of communication among groundskeepers for different teams? Are there conferences? Are you all communicating about your advice and tips for each other? Definitely.

There's a general sports turf conference in the wintertime. there's a general sports turf conference in the wintertime. And then, uh, we usually have a, it's a major league conference with all the major league baseball groundskeepers right after that. So we meet up once a year and then, uh,

definitely guys are like texting and calling and it's a blast watching like MLB network. And you see, you know, how every field's doing. You might, Oh, I'm going to send that guy a text.

Wonder how that event went or stuff like that. I actually, I got a cousin that works, works for the brewers. So I'm always talking with him. Are the artificial turf groundskeepers looked down upon? Do they have a job? I wouldn't say look down upon at all. Uh, you know, they just don't have as much on their plate when it comes to the grass. So I guess they can focus a little bit more on the dirt and make sure that that's in good shape. But not too many of those right now. You mentioned it a little bit, like watching on MLB Network, watching the Miller Park. But what kind of, what do you look for?

Like when you're watching a baseball game, obviously you are going to be noticing things that Ben or myself wouldn't ever pick up on, but like, what, uh, what do you see on television and what are you noticing that might tell you that, Hey, these people have done a particularly good or bad job. Yeah. Uh, it's funny. Cause a lot of times like the stripes can hide where and tear in the grass. So a lot of times I'm like trying to look at some of the edges and like around home plate in front of the mound just to see how those areas are one thing you're looking for is like footing and divots and you know just how guys are reacting when they're running things like that the obvious ones like a bad hop or something but hopefully those are few and far

between do you have any interesting animal encounter stories? And when there are animals on the field, whose responsibility is it to deal with that? I think everyone probably saw earlier this year the poor Cardinals grounds crew, if they had to deal with the rally cat that was at Bush Stadium, I guess, last year, and the guy was getting scratched and bitten,

and there are all sorts of animal appearances. So have you encountered that yourself? Yeah, it's funny you mention that because we actually had a skunk on the field on Saturday, I think it was. They had their tubes out that keep the—they roll up the turf protection to put the bleachers in, and I guess inside one of the tubes, there was a skunk. So they grabbed our hose and washed them out of one end and he took off running around the field and everybody took off running. They were trying to hide from him.

Yeah. You come across animals for sure. Where did they live? Is it like, oh yeah, we know that there's just this stray cat that hangs out under the bleachers or something like, are, yeah, we know that there's just this stray cat that hangs out under the bleachers or something? Like, are they getting in from outside the stadium or do they just live somewhere in the bowels and they just come up now and then? I guess your guess is as good as mine.

But I do find little crevices and areas in the stadiums to live. And I mean, stadiums are perfect if they can find the dumpster out back. They can feed off that. But, yeah yeah i don't know where they where they come from but definitely show up where people aren't as much i know from having watched enough spring training games in arizona it seems like especially in tempe in particular but stadiums seem to have a problem with just like bees and wasps that just accumulate in some of those ballparks you know every so often you have a game delayed you'll see bees on the camera it's all everyone's having a great time but like how do you make sure that there isn't like a beehive and i know this is

this is maybe stretching it because the likelihood of this is pretty low but to a certain extent you are responsible to make sure that the the field and areas around the field are safer for players and spectators and you know bees could be a threat so like do you do you have to do sweeps just to make sure everything looks clear from time to time yeah i think that's the best way to go about it i mean on the as far as the actual field goes you know there's if we see something right away we'll be able to probably get on it. But it's definitely a good idea to have someone come in at least once a year and kind of walk the facility and just check just to make sure. But yeah, we did have some bees down in Arizona, I remember once,

and had to call somebody to get rid of them right away and spray them. And obviously you do both baseball and football. Is there perfect transfer of skills between sports? Like could you go and be a golf groundskeeper or, I don't know, MLS or something? Like can any groundskeeper who is doing a high-level sport do a different high-level sport? Or are there a lot of unique skills to certain sports? There are some unique skills. I'd say baseball has a lot with the dirt.

Someone who's taking care of just a grass field isn't really going to know how to take care of a mound and the infield dirt. There's all kinds of little things that go into it. Probably the same with golf. I would guess there's a lot of different, you're cutting to different heights and taking care of bunkers and things like that.

I think, though, if a guy was switching between sports, it's just a matter of time of kind of picking it up and learning, you know, what are those little extra things that that sport has. I know football has more traffic down the middle of the field, so that's definitely something you're not dealing with in baseball. So it's definitely learning little things. Just about any baseball player, or really any athlete who gets drafted, will get drafted into his sport, and he'll have his favorite team growing up.

Most of the time, 29 out of 30 times, the player doesn't end up necessarily on his favorite team. I was reading an old article about you, and it implied that you were, and maybe still are, a big Cubs fan. Is that correct? Yeah, definitely. I grew up a Cubs fan. We went to games there all the time growing up. It's awesome to get to see them win one here recently. Is it like a dream of yours to one day be able to work in Wrigley, or are you just kind of more content now that you live where you live and you have your routine and you don't want to move most of the way across the country? Yeah, I don't know. People ask that from time to time.

I mean, I would love to work at Wrigley, but I'd also love to work at Fenway again or to work in Colorado. There's so many different awesome stadiums and awesome places to work. I've been lucky enough. I've visited Wrigley and I know their groundskeepers pretty well. So I've been able to go out on the field and see it from that standpoint. So I don't know. I just, I'm so lucky that I've been able to see the places I have and work at those places. It's just kind of like, oh, just take it how it comes and just enjoy it. And I assume there's a hierarchy on the grounds crew. So what are kind of the cushiest jobs or roles or what's the entry level thing that you have to do for a while before you move up to

the maybe less strenuous or tedious job? Like, is there sort of a most desirable post on a grounds crew? Yeah. I mean, a lot of times if, of times if you're a senior member of the crew and you kind of know what you're doing a little bit more, you might be able to have the hose in your hand. So it might be watering the infill dirt or watering grass after games or watering the warning track. If it's your first day on the job, you aren't going to touch a hose. This is kind of how it is. And then definitely any of the heavy lifting. You want the the younger guys the guys that kind of need to prove themselves a little bit and a lot of that's uh tamping mounds picking up the tamp carrying bags of conditioner

around just you know the the heavier stuff you kind of got to prove your way prove to the older guys that you can work tell us about the tarp because that's another common groundskeeping mishap is that people will get trapped in the tarp they will fall over there it looks pretty scary and painful although it often ends up in blooper reels but uh how do you avoid being the person who ends up rolled up in the tarp and have you ever been that person well to be honest maybe that's part of the reason why i've been working in arizona and california the last four or five years i don't have to deal with it that much but yeah there's definitely been times where i've seen guys you

know get stuck under it or if you get a big burst of wind like i've seen guys if you're holding onto the tarp you get pulled in in the air so it can be scary for sure uh so you definitely you know if you're in charge of the tarp or you definitely need guys that know what they're doing so they can keep it low and make sure the wind doesn't grab it and then if you know if you're pulling it in heavy rain you got to get it out right away or else it'll it'll get stuck so yeah yeah the tarp it's fun like the first time you do it but after that you're kind of like man this is a lot of work yeah well dangerous and as you're saying you don't have to do it all that often in game situations so do you drill do you practice for the the rare times when you actually

have to do it I guess you could say our preseason is practice enough actually in Oakland we get a decent amount of rain in like February and March. And that's right when we're putting the new field in. So this year, we actually probably put it on at least 15 times, not closer to 20. So we got plenty of practice with it early in the season. So I'm fine with it just staying where it's at. And are you kind of in the loop as far as the weather goes, the forecast, the umpire? What's the communication And are you kind of in the loop as far as the weather goes, the forecast, the umpire? What's the communication like if you know that there is going to be some weather? How do you kind of interface with everyone involved to figure out that this is what we're

going to do or this is when we're going to do it? Yeah, as far as weather, Clay and myself try, you know, try and, you know, we're watching the weather every day, even if it's this time time of year just to make sure that nothing's going to be popping up and then if we know that there's something going on clay will probably let uh his boss david renetti know make sure we got any extra tarp staff that we need and then uh from there they'll communicate that to the umpires if need be you know right before a game we actually haven't had to deal with that this year yet, but if we did, that's kind of how they would do it. And then, of course, once the game starts, it's no longer in our control. It's the umpires alone. So, I mean, we'll update them with, you know, what the weather forecast is calling for, but as far as putting the tarp on or taking it off, it's their call solely.

So, is it true that, you know, we talk a lot about how the quality of play in Major League Baseball is just constantly improving and the best players from 20 years ago wouldn't be the best players today? Do you think that the quality of fields has improved in the same way? Is it constantly getting better or are there ways in which it hasn't for a long time or has gotten worse or more complicated i think even since i've started in the industry i've seen fields get a lot better they're just some of the products they're coming out with are better and the technology is better the equipment's better just guys knowing how to take how to handle different events and stuff it It's getting better. I think that's where a lot of the networking comes in, too.

Guys are sharing ideas in the wintertime and figuring out what the best way to do stuff is. So I definitely think fields are getting better. And I know that you weren't there, but have you heard horror stories about the sewage flood? Have you heard what that was like? Yeah, I've heard some stories. It doesn't sound fun, but hopefully that they got those issues fixed somewhat.

It doesn't happen again before they move out of here. Yes, hopefully so. Do groundskeepers, I've heard groundskeepers get a World Series share potentially if there is a World Series win. Is that something that is on your radar at all? Is there a playoff share for groundskeepers? I think from my knowledge, obviously,

I haven't been with a team that's done well enough for that, but I believe it's voted on by the players. I think they kind of vote how that's shared. So, you know It'd be nice if something like that were to happen And they were to vote Some of that to go towards the grounds crew But it's one of those things you can't really

Bank on it ever but It's kind of in the back of your mind maybe Yeah and is there any performance Aspect to your job You know the YMCA Certain grounds crews do various Perform performances in games do you do anything like that and if not are you glad that you don't do anything like that for us we really don't do a lot of that stuff uh we just keep it pretty simple it's kind of focused on our job i

mean we have a couple guys on our crew who uh you know know some fans and you get a high five or something here here and there when you're coming off the field but nothing real crazy that we do. No YMCA or anything. I've had plenty of fun ideas but we just haven't done them. I think it'd be cool to have a monkey come out and break the cutouts

or something sometime. I've got to work with the zoo on that. What's the average tenure for a groundskeeper? Do you know, like, is there more or less movement among organizations for groundskeepers than players? Or like, is there a typical groundskeeper career length? And is it similar to players or is it a lifelong thing that you expect to be doing for decades to come? thing that you expect to be doing for decades to come? Uh, I think one, you know, if you're in a good position, uh, whether that's major league head guy assistant or a triple a, a lot of guys,

you know, triple A great jobs. Um, so if you're in one of those positions and that's what you love doing, I think a lot of guys stick with it for a long time. You know, some guys, they want to pursue other things in life and, you know, just, you know, can and just don't really want to be around the schedule anymore. You're here every day. So some guys might move on. But I would say in general, a lot of guys will stick around for a while and keep doing it. So I told you that on this podcast, we often talk about strange, silly hypotheticals, and we've talked about what would happen if there were a pit on the field somewhere, or if there were a tree between the mound and home plate, or what if they took away the outfield fences. We've talked about all these strange scenarios.

Do you have a strange scenario for a ballpark or for a field? Is there anything that you've thought about or talked about that I wonder what would happen if a field had X? Yeah. Well, one thing I kind of like is when some of the outfield bleachers are in close, like Fenway or whatever, I think that's kind of cool how that's different. One thing that I always thought about, what if we widened fair territory to be more than 90 degrees i think that'd be

kind of neat to see but i guess isn't that what cricket is kind of like yeah i guess so that would mean even more work for you too yeah definitely no i guess i usually say that when somebody hits a home run and the foul side like man i wish the field was a little bit wider Right Alright, well we appreciate Your coming on and sharing All the secrets of the groundskeeping Trade, of course We'd like you to spill all the dirt No pun intended

About what teams are doing And they're watering down the base pass To slow down fielders I mean, you hear those stories Maybe it's just an earlier era of baseball where there was less oversight and more gamesmanship and less sportsmanship. I don't know. Do you hear? I mean, even if you haven't experienced it personally, have you heard those stories or, you know, groundskeeping veterans told you about how one day back in the day they

did this or that with their field to help the team in some way or yeah yeah i mean i've heard different stories of tilting the foul lines and yeah making it wet where a guy will lead off that's a you know a visiting team will come in they got a base stealer and they might make it wet right right by the base so i mean that stuff definitely has happened in the past but it just seems like now the coaches are just like we just want a nice field we want everybody to be healthy on it and kind of all we want yeah and uh one last one our listener named eric asked how deep does the infield dirt go before it's just regular dirt i guess we could ask the the same thing about the grass i mean what is under a baseball field how deep does that go

it's all sand underneath it and our infield dirt goes down four inches exactly. So we take that four inches out once baseball's done and put the sand in and sod for football. So other than that, it's just sand under there for about a full foot and then pea gravel underneath that. So it drains well. Interesting. All right. Well, we have learned a lot, and we wish you well of avoiding the sewage and dealing with football season and baseball season, and hopefully you'll have a new stadium to work in someday, but you are doing yeoman's work these days with a difficult situation, so we appreciate you coming on and tell us about it

yep no problem thank you All right. Thank you very much to Zach for joining us. And thanks also to listener James Barber, who put us in touch. So as it turned out, it was not the Mariners winning by one run. It was the A's beating the Mariners by one run, 7-6. And as far as I know, Zach's field survived the game intact. You know, before we found Zach, a couple listeners reached out to groundskeepers they knew at my behest. I asked about the possible shenanigans that groundskeepers get up to.

So listener Max Goeder-Reisser, he asked an anonymous Major League groundskeeper source of his who says that yes, it would be pretty hard to get away with anything and that no teams are actually doing it because the league sends people around randomly to check on these things, more so the base paths. He says that grounds crews could, for a bunting team, leave the grass a little higher, potentially with the foul line put a little more dirt there

so there's a slope to prevent a ball from rolling into foul territory, again, for a speedy, bunting, inclined team. And listener Max Likens reports an answer from Tim Manns, who has been a groundskeeper a few places, currently for the St. Paul Saints, also for the Buffalo Bisons in AAA in the past, and at Target Field. He says, first of all, moving base anchors and entire mound

takes an awful lot of work. In the majors, they'll check a couple times a year. Groundskeepers take pride in their mounds and fields so they don't try to get away with stuff. Grass height isn't necessarily the same from park to park. It all depends on what kind of grass and other field conditions. Some just can't tolerate being mowed as short as others. For example, grass grown in the north is different than grass grown in the south. There is such a thing as home field advantage where some aspects can be changed to how a manager or player likes it, but nothing as drastic as changing distances. Along those lines,

anything that a manager or player suggests is taken under advisement and not always changed in favor of keeping a fair playable surface. So I suppose that's that. But if anyone out there has the dirt, again, no pun intended, on groundskeeping, wants to tell us about any groundskeeping schemes past or present, please let us know. That will do it for today. You can support the podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectivelywild, signing up to pledge some small monthly amount. Following five listeners have already done so. Sean Cusack, Aaron Isaac Feldstein, Joseph Cross, Robert Goldstein, and Kathy Harden. Thanks to all of you. Thanks also to Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance. Please keep your questions and comments for me and Jeff coming via email at podcast at

fancrafts.com or via the Patreon messaging system. If you are a Patreon supporter, we will probably get to emails next time or at least later this week. You can also join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash Effectively Wild. And you can rate and review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on iTunes. So thanks for listening. We will be back to talk to you soon. I'm in my field.

I'm in my street. And I will yield. I'm in my field. And I'm in my field And I'm in love Across the sky Come in my field Just you and me