Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 1306: Terrance Gore is Going

Episode Date: December 7, 2018

Ben Lindbergh and Jeff Sullivan banter about Willians Astudillo and discuss Nathan Eovaldi re-signing with the Red Sox, the Cardinals-Diamondbacks trade involving Paul Goldschmidt, Luke Weaver, and Carson Kelly, and the significance of good teams trading away great players. Then (36:03) they bring on free-agent outfielder and probable fastest man in baseball Terrance Gore to […]

I only get sleepless nights, alone in my hospital bed. We end this in the time I tried, so I wish that I would have the truth instead. What do I get? Oh, what do I get? What do I get? Oh, what do I get? Hello and welcome to episode 1306 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of The Ringer, joined by Jeff Sullivan of Fangraphs. Hello. Hello. So we are talking today to Terrence Gore, of all people. Terrence Gore, podcast favorite and former royal, former cub.

score podcast favorite and former royal former cub he is a free agent right now but you know him from his base stealing and his playoff heroics and someone that i've wanted to talk to for a while and the opportunity just came about so here we are talking to three big leaguers in one week look at us why do you think people do this why do you think why do you think players come on the podcast i wonder what there is you know there's certain like fringe guys or maybe recently retired guys it's like oh maybe maybe someone with a team is gonna hear this but i wonder i wonder what people why do people do favors what is it about the way humans are wired yeah i don't know it's uh it's funny i mean we talked to terrence about his prospects for next season. It sounds like there's no shortage of interest in him. So it's not as if he wanted to come on because someone might hear him and say, oh, yeah, Terrence Gore, he's a player. Maybe we should sign him. Everyone knows Terrence Gore. I don't know. I guess it's a nice thing you do. And if you're a baseball player, it's kind of part of the job. I mean, he's currently a free agent, so it's not really part of his job. But I guess you just get conditioned because you're in a clubhouse and someone's asking you questions and it's hard to tell somebody to do something for publicity when you're the one who doesn't have to do it.

But moving on from there, I can tell you that yesterday, because this has become a habit now, Williams Estadio had a very unusual game. And here's how and here's why. At least according to MLB.com, MILB.com, whatever. Yesterday, December 5th, Estadio went 0 for 3, which is fine. But in the same game, no strikeouts, three walks. He drew three walks in the game. He's up to 10 walks and one strikeout in the winter. That's my only Astadio update of today.

But still, that's a lot of uncharacteristic patience. I wonder if he was walking intentionally. I don't know if I like it. I mean, I want him to be productive so that he can continue to play more. But part of his appeal is that he never walks either. I guess the core of the appeal is the not striking out because, I mean, there are guys who never walk. You know, we can all watch Dee Gordon whenever we want. But it's the not striking out that makes Williams Estadio so special.

Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, that's all I got on Estadio. What else you got? So we've got some news. We've got some transactions to talk about. This has been a busy past week or so. And we've got two more moves to talk about that Jerry DiPoto was not involved in at all. Other teams can make transactions, too. So on Wednesday, we had a big trade. We had Paul Goldschmidt going from the Diamondbacks To the Cardinals for a Sizable prospect package

A sizable package of prospects Not a package of sizable prospects And then on Thursday Nathan Ivaldi signed with The Red Sox so we've talked About Ivaldi I guess maybe that Would be the quick one to get out Of the way but

Ivaldi is back with the Red Sox, it sounds like it's going to be four years and $67.5 million, which is not a shocker. I don't think it would have been a shocker a year ago or six months ago, or I don't know, maybe even three months ago. But that's kind of in the range that people were speculating he might end up around somewhere in the 60-something. And as we talked about, there was just a ton of interest in him. Seemingly every team could envision Ivaldi as a part of its staff. Yeah, and then he ends up – what was it? So the trade rumors prediction was four years and $60 million.

I don't remember. You have a better memory than I do. So I don't remember if either one of us took that as the over-under. Yeah, because that felt about right. So we saw Patrick Corbin get six years as a Tommy John survivor. We saw Nathan Uvalde now get four years as a two-time Tommy John survivor. Uvalde throws like 10 miles per hour harder, but he also is worse. At least he's coming off a worse season. So we didn't have Corbin's ace potential. I think it is still it's interesting when you have a two-time tommy john guy i was i was kind of

expecting a three-year guarantee and then one of those fourth-year investing options with some clause about whether or not he's injured at the end of the third year red sox clearly won the sweepstakes i guess because they gave the fourth year guaranteed not that the seasons are cheap either but it does feel kind of chatwoody except it's if like tyler chatwood were good i'm sorry tyler chatwood or his agent if you're listening to this podcast but you know you know you know what happened chatwood of course signed his contract as a guy with good stuff who didn't throw strikes and nathan yovali signed his contract as a guy with good stuff who throws almost exclusively strikes so it's a it's a fun signing it's i don't know if it's a, it's a fun signing.

It's, I don't know if it's less interesting or not because he went back to Boston, the city where he was very successful and, and became almost like a household name. He's a very competitive kind of player, clearly very comfortable in Boston. They have a need and an opening. I feel like it's,

there are so many red flags because of the two Tommy Johns and because of how hard he throws, like clearly his body has some, some limits has some limits that he's brushing up against. But, I mean, if you really want to get down to it, every single player who's been playing baseball for a long time has any number of red flags, any number of reasons you can convince yourself not to pay the guy. It's fun to see Jovaldi do so well after being one of those guys who signed one of those Two-year Tommy John contracts where he missed The entire first year, such a bounce-back Candidate, and remember he was considered Like a disappointment earlier in his career

Because he threw really hard and still wasn't very Good, and it was just like, when is this Guy going to put it together? It must be a head case or something And I don't know, it's cool to see him get this far And he made some Changes and changed his pitch Selection, and I mean it makes sense That he got some changes and changed his pitch selection. And I mean, it makes sense that he got better. And I think his performance in the World Series was just almost the signature

moment of that series, maybe even of the playoffs as a whole. Certainly one of the more memorable performances just coming in in the 18 inning game and just going inning after inning after inning, seemingly just would have pitched forever until that game ended one way or another and that was the one loss that the Red Sox suffered in that series and yet it almost felt like the most triumphant moment in a way I know that his team appreciated it and he got you know a standing ovation or something in the clubhouse after the game. It was recognized that he had sort of put his arm on the line at this moment when it mattered the most. And obviously, that means a lot to a team. And if you have a playoff hero and someone who is really respected in the clubhouse, then that makes you maybe more likely to want to keep that person. But obviously he was just not a product of that one performance. He's just really good and he throws really hard. And as he wrote and we talked about recently,

he has really great control for someone who throws incredibly hard. So it's good. As long as he is healthy and can keep doing what he was doing, he'll be really valuable. The only question really is whether and can keep doing what he was doing he'll be really valuable the only question really is whether he can stay healthy something i've always been interested in and something that's also impossible to study is i love when like defenders mostly infielders make really really awesome defensive plays that still don't result in an out like you make an incredible

diving play at short you make a great throw to first and then the runner beats it out by a step and you never see those on the highlight shows you never look them up they if anything they're counted against the defenders in in the advanced metrics because no out was recorded so those plays kind of get lost after you see them live and it's reminiscent like how many signature moments in a playoffs for a player how many i should say how many positive signature moments come in losses because like you said nathaniel valde was ultimately not he was not just on the losing side he threw the pitch that lost the game for the Red Sox and yet that was like him being the hero of like the series maybe of the entire playoffs for Boston it's hard to say I don't want to exaggerate but it's so uncommon to have those

moments because everything in sports is determined by the winners and the losers. And for Yuvaldi to transcend that, it really speaks to the effort that he left on the field. Yeah, and once Corbin was off the board, I think Yuvaldi was probably the most appealing pitcher. I don't know, maybe Dallas Keuchel is next on that list. But I guess Keuchel is the Best starter remaining so I don't know whether his market will Heat up now as everyone who Lost out on Corbin and Nivaldi

Thinks we better get someone before The musical chairs stop and we Don't get a starting pitcher so We'll see if that happens but The other big move that we Have to discuss is the Cardinals Diamondbacks trade so So Paul Goldschmidt, perennial MVP contending first baseman, has been traded to the Cardinals for Luke Weaver,

right-handed pitcher, catcher, Carson Kelly, minor league infielder Andy Young, and also a competitive balance round pick in next year's draft. So this one came together from a public standpoint in about 10 minutes, which was like a great contrast from the Mets Mariners trade that just dragged on in the public spotlight for about a week. This one, it really was like from the first tweet, like momentum building to it was like 10 minutes until the teams announced the trade. It was kind of a whirlwind. I liked it and it's fun. So, okay, there are a few ways to look at this. We've been talking about the Diamondbacks

potentially taking a step back for a while. Diamondbacks and Mariners entered the off season in similar situations where they had decent major league rosters, but not a whole lot of, I don't know, if you want to say future value. So the Mariners have elected to step back. The Diamondbacks have now also elected to step back. This is the big move. Maybe they're going to move Zach Greinke too. It's not really clear. So on the one hand,

you could say, well, here's another team that's not trying to win. But on the plus side, I guess the Cardinals, that means they're making a better effort. Of course, in the NL East, we're seeing the Mets make an effort to become a winner, the Phillies making an effort to become a winner. So I don't think that we're seeing any more lopsided baseball landscape. But I don't know, what was your initial and then, I guess, later on read on the return that the Diamondbacks got for the best player that they have ever developed? It seems pretty impressive, right? right because Goldschmidt is under team control for only one year and he is making what 14 and a half million dollars in that year which is obviously a great bargain for Paul Goldschmidt but is still something so one year of control for a player to get two pretty promising players who are already major league ready and I know that Weaver and Kelly are coming

off seasons that maybe took a little off their luster and were probably bigger prospects a couple of years ago than they are now or a year ago than they are now. But you're still obviously acquiring a lot of team control for a little team control. And I mean, that's kind of what it comes down to with no matter how great a player is for only one year, you're just, you're not going to get as much as I think fans think that you're going to get or that you should get for that guy because they look at it as, well, Paul Goldschmidt, he's like an MVP type player. He is great every year. How can you trade one of the best players in baseball and not get back, you know, one of the best players in baseball or some really do that. But it seems like if they had decided they weren't going to win with Goldschmidt anyway, which you could quibble with, then this move makes sense. I understand it.

Yeah. And Luke Weaver is an interesting get for the Diamondbacks. He's perplexing, and here's why. Between 2016 and 2017, he struck out about 28 percent of the batters that he faced that's quite good for someone who was starting that's over 18 starts 22 appearances so 28 strikeouts this past season he struck out to 20 percent of his opponents over basically almost a full season with with the cardinals that is worse that's worse by eight percentage points you don't like to see a strikeout decline so keep that in mind luke weaver lost eight percentage

points off his strikeout rate now his pitches he was throwing were the same he threw the same velocity same mix and in terms of his actual swinging strikes and his contact rates no change he missed just as many bats this past season. He got just as many swinging strikes. He threw just as many pitches in the zone. Got just as many swings out of the zone. Just as many swings in the zone. It's weird.

I mean, he's a guy who people think that he needs a third pitch. Maybe he doesn't have a full repertoire yet. Maybe he's not good at limiting the quality of contact. He allows Luke Weaver clearly has some stuff to figure out, or else he would end up a reliever. But it is fascinating to see a guy lose strikeouts, even though it doesn't seem like by the other metrics he really lost anything. Now, I haven't dug deep yet to see what might have been happening with Luke Weaver.

Could be that there's something that's really quite easy to explain. But I think based on that that already i would consider that reason to believe that there is there's a real upside here that the diamondbacks might might rightly figure well weaver should bounce back because his numbers last season didn't match up with his numbers before even though other numbers did of course the other perspective being maybe it was the first two seasons that were fluky and last year was real i don't know that's the diamondbacks problem now yeah and then carson kelly of course if you look at his major league line, he has gotten into 63 games, 131 plate appearances, and he has a 415 OPS. That is not what you want, but that is also a small sample. And he hit pretty well for a catcher in AAA the last couple years, the last few years, and he is still only

24, and according to the baseball prospectus framing stats for AAA, he has been an excellent framer in each of the last couple seasons, so that is a dimension he brings to, and I mean, I guess the Cardinals are just kind of committed to Yadier Molina for life at this point. I mean, if you're Yadier Molina's backup, you're just not going to get much playing time. And Molina's still under contract for a couple more seasons, right? So I get it. And I can see why the Diamondbacks would want someone like Kelly. want someone like Kelly. So he's another guy who kind of like Weaver has some skills and has not demonstrated them recently, at least in the majors, but there's a lot to like there.

And you know what? There's the third piece. There was a four-piece package going to the Dumbbacks. One of them is a compensation round draft pick, but there's also a minor leaguer named Andy Young. Andy Young is the most cardinals player among the players traded in this trade now you could argue that goldschmidt is a very cardinals player because he was considered not a great prospect and then he became oh i don't know a constant mvp candidate every single season but andy young was drafted in the 37th round in 2016 so right there you can tell well he's not thought of all that highly he was born in north dakota so that's an unusual area to be born as a baseball player he plays multiple positions and

he hits the crap out of the ball just all the time he has turned into just a a good hitter i'll just read off some wrc plus marks in 2017 at a ball he had. He had a WRC Plus of 158. This past season in Advanced A-Ball, he had a WRC Plus of 137. He moved up to AA in over a, I don't know, a month, a little over a month. He had a WRC Plus of 160. Just seems like he's a player who's learning how to hit. There's still plenty more to figure out. Don't need to do a deep dive into Andy Young here.

Doesn't necessarily walk that much. Stuff he can do better but just seems like one of those Cardinals players that they saw a guy who I don't even know what they would have identified maybe just the capacity to learn and like some base fundamental suite of skills and then they decided well let's just improve this guy turn him into another classic Cardinals prospect. So he's someone who could move pretty quickly, end up in the major leagues, maybe even this season. And I guess from the Cardinals' perspective, they're a team that is always characterized by its depth.

I know right now what happens as a consequence of landing Paul Goldschmidt is Matt Carpenter moves to third base, and that kind of bumps Jed Jerko into a backup role, which whatever, we're not going to talk a whole of bumps Jed Jerko into a backup role which whatever we're not going to talk a whole lot about Jed Jerko on this podcast but it does limit what Jose Martinez can do for the Cardinals because he is not a good defender anywhere he might even be a bad defensive designated hitter but he is good at hitting currently I guess you could say he slots in as the starter in right field ahead of I don't know know, Dexter Fowler, Tyler O'Neill, whoever else is there.

Cardinals in the market for an outfielder. Jose Martinez feels like he is now maybe the most obvious trade candidate in the world. Like maybe even more than JT Real Moto because the Marlins think they can resign him. So Jose Martinez is out there. I think he's about 30 years old. He's got a weird career trajectory, but he's a very good hitter. Can't really do anything else, but he is under team control for a while and he's very available. Seems like, I don't know, someone like a classic Rays addition, someone who's just kind of off the map, but someone is going to end up with a very,

very good hitter and probably pretty soon as the Cardinals try to put the rest of the pieces together. Yeah. And speaking of obvious trade candidates, I guess Zach Greinke is now one of those too because if you're going to get rid of Goldschmidt, Greinke has already been rumored to be a possible trade candidate. So at this point, you might as well, I suppose. And I don't know. I mean, this, I think, bums people out because what we've seen so far this offseason is we've seen the Mariners, who won 89 games last year, just tearing it all down. We see the Diamondbacks, who won, what, 82 games and were up until really midway through September when things kind of fell apart, looked like a playoff team potentially. Things kind of fell apart, looked like a playoff team potentially.

And then you have the Indians who haven't made one of the major moves yet, but obviously a division winner. And they've been talking about trading Kluber and trading Bauer. And so people are looking at this and they're thinking, not unreasonably, that this is bad. That teams that are on the cusp, that were in contention, why are they not going for it? Why are they not investing in these rosters? And especially when you have a guy like Goldschmidt, who has been a career diamondback, and it's always sort of sad to see someone like that who's been a star with one team for eight years now, and it's pretty rare to get a guy stay with the same organization his whole career but it is cool when it happens and our friend nick picoro reported that they had

tried to extend him or there had been some discussions with goldschmidt about an extension and obviously they did not agree on terms and i don't know how hard the diamondbacks tried or what the offer was or what but i think that is what is disillusioning a lot of people, that they're looking at these teams that in a previous year or era might have said, oh, well, we were close last year. So this is the time to spend or this is the time to double down. And instead they're saying, well, how are we going to compete with the Dodgers in the NL West? Or how are we going to compete with, I don't know, the Astros in the AL West? And, well, we might as well just start over, at least take a step back. And that is kind of demoralizing in a way.

It is strange. I understand the Mariners better here because they had just, you know, an empty farm system. And they're looking up at not only the Astros, but also the A's who don't have pitching, but who are just a better team than the Mariners are. And I think also the Angels on talent are at least as good as the Mariners. So I kind of get that. In the NL West, I think there was less of a convincing reason to me for the Diamondbacks to do this because the Dodgers are quite good.

I grant that. But I think the Rockies are not a 90-plus win team like they looked last year. The Giants are bad, and the Ponders are getting better, but still kind of probably a year away unless they have just an incredible offseason. And so it seems like the Diamondbacks were still in position to think about first place more realistically than the Mariners, who were just so far away from the top of the division. So based on that, I think that there was less reason for the diamondbacks to do this but again you look at the rest of the national league the nl east is trying to have four contending teams the nl central is trying to have either four maybe even five contending teams depending on what the reds do so if the diamondbacks figure they weren't going to

be able to keep up with the dodgers which is fair then you can say well maybe the wild card isn't realistic we couldn't extend this guy. Unfortunately, we have to bite the bullet and get some longer term pieces. And it does suck because you can figure 15, 20 years ago, the Diamondbacks would think, we got to get better. We got to get better now. Now, there have always been rebuilders, but it just kind of, I think teams more than ever are implementing plans where they are keeping the longer term in mind, if not

prioritizing the longer term. Teams are thinking beyond just one season of contention. And that's good organizationally. I do think that it is better in the long term to think about the long term. Otherwise, you end up with something like, oh, I don't know, global warming. But when you have moves that are being made against contention, fans and outside observers are most concerned with the season just ahead. And they have the season most recent fresh in their mind. I don't need to tell any of you that we're all wired for shorter-term thinking.

And it's hard. It's like taking money out of your paycheck that invested in savings being like, well, when I retire, well, retirement's no guarantee. You could be dead. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow. Live like today is your last day on all that stuff, all those cliches and banners you put up in your bedroom. So it's hard to stomach when you have teams who are basically sending the message, trust us, we know what we're doing. Because I think by and large, the teams do know what they're doing. They do know. This is going to sound ridiculous. Many teams, not all teams, but many teams, I think I would trust to know what's better for the team more than the fans.

Like I would trust the teams to do what is in the fans' best interests. But the problem is that it doesn't always feel like that, which is where you end up with this disappointment. I'm speaking for Diamondbacks fans because I'm not actually in touch with Diamondbacks fans who might be disappointed. Yeah, and I mean, sometimes there are kind of artificial payroll constraints that come into it where it's like, well, I mean,

maybe the best thing to do would be to invest if ownership were willing to spend X dollars, but they're not. And so therefore, this is the best thing to do. And maybe that's not really best for the fans. What would be best for the fans is if you had that long-term mindset, but also were willing to invest a lot of money in your roster. But when you talk about baseball operations departments, often they are handed a budget, and they're operating within those constraints,

and the Diamondbacks have been spending. I mean, their payroll has gone up considerably. And so I think there was a sense when they really invested a couple of winters ago that there was going to be some kind of ticking clock here. And, you know, they are probably losing Pollock, right? They're probably, I mean, they already lost Corbin. So that's another thing you have to factor in that they were losing two of their good players. I mean, Pollock has been hurt a lot, but losing their best starting pitcher to free agency and then Pollock, I mean, yeah, maybe you could have re-signed all of those guys. I don't know. It's tough to do. So once you factor in that you're subtracting some wins there,

then maybe it becomes easier to look at this 2019 team and say, well, we're just not going to make it with Goldschmidt or with Granke or not. So we might as well get a head start on some sort of rebuild, maybe not a teardown, but just trying to ease out the Valley in between playoff appearances Because that can really Help like if you just get a head start On a rebuild sort of then it Doesn't have to be to the depths That the Astros or the Cubs went

It can be a shallower break Between good teams so I guess that's the thinking here and It's kind of a bummer if you're A Diamondbacks fan, probably. But you're going to get to enjoy Luke Weaver and Carson Kelly for years to come. So that's something. And it's hard when you have teams who are trying to rebuild in the same way.

There are so many teams, mostly in the American League, who are going through a rebuild that just as there's a busy market for the best players who are out there, like the best starting pitchers, the best hitters, there's also a busy market for the best players who are out there, like the best starting pitchers, the best hitters. There's also a busy market for the best long-term pieces who are available. So, you know, whether that's draft picks or international players or just long-term players who are in the minors or on the fringes of major league rosters, a lot of teams want those longer-term assets. So the Diamondbacks are now entering a market where the Mariners have already gotten a head start. The Mariners entered a market where, like, the Royals and the White Sox and the Tigers and the Orioles and the Rangers and the Marlins and the Reds and theers have already gotten a head start. The Mariners entered a market where like the Royals and the White Sox and the Tigers

and the Orioles and the Rangers and the Marlins and the Reds and the Padres already had a head start. So there's all these rebuilding teams who are already trying to do the same thing. With the Goldschmidt trade, at least as part of a teardown, if you root for the Diamondbacks, you can say at least we traded Goldschmidt for someone we can envision being a regular catcher, someone we can envision being a regular catcher, someone we can envision being a regular starting pitcher, and someone who could be like an interesting bench bat, maybe even a

second baseman in Andy Young. A potential Zach Greinke trade is difficult because he's under contract for three more years and like $104 million. And if Zach Greinke were a free agent today, he would not get three years and $104 million. He would get a lot of money because he's still quite good. I think teams trust him. They like him. I think he's considered someone who's going to age well. But if the Diamondbacks trade Zach Greinke, they will presumably be doing so to shed his salary and they will get a lesser return. Now, maybe if they ate like a lot of that contract, they could get prospects back. But most probably, if they trade Zach Greinke, it's going to be to free up present and future money. Now, the present money, I don't know how that would be reinvested,

but they'd be doing so to free up money in 2020 and 2021. And when you do that, even though that money is money that will then, we can guess, be turned into major league players, because you don't have identities of those major league players yet, because they're not prospects or young players, it feels like it's just a salary dump for what purpose. And that, I think, is a lot harder to sell, which makes sense, because every team would rather have prospects than money, even though if you want to be cold and unfeeling and objective about it, prospects basically are money. It's all about assets, right? It's not

exactly the same thing. If you have $10 million, you can't just turn that into a prospect worth $10 million. But that's kind of the idea, right? So even though the Diamondbacks would be trading Zach Greinke with the long-term interest in mind, they won't get a good prospect package in return. And that is going to make that move, I think, feel pretty difficult to stomach. Yeah. And we should say it's not as if every team that just missed the playoffs this year is just throwing in the towel and saying we can't win because it certainly seems as if the Mets are going for it.

Whether that's realistic or not, I don't know. But they're trying. The Cardinals are in that boat too. Cardinals won 88 games and just missed the playoffs, and now they are trying to make another run at it, which is something that they have done at least. I know that people like to mock the Cardinals and get sick of the Cardinals, but they are competitive every year,

and they've done a good enough job of continuing to find players. And, yeah, I mean, Weaver is a first round pick and kelly's a second round pick but they have had enough of these andy young type 30 something round picks that they have just managed to keep churning these guys out and and they've been trying to get like a star level hitter for a while now remember they wanted to add Jean-Carlo Stanton he declined and then they thought they were going to get that guy in Marcelo Zuna but Zuna had some shoulder issues and just really didn't have the season that they were expecting him to have so this is that big bad I mean Carpenter has been a big bat, obviously, but the big power guy in the middle of the lineup that they've been going after for a bit and haven't really had. So this is a good boost for them. I don't know whether it pulls them even with Milwaukee when you're looking ahead to next year. And obviously the Cubs are as good as anyone. So that is going to be a tight division too. I know organizations change constantly. Clearly the Cardinals have changed a lot.

Different people in charge in the dugout, in the front office, et cetera. But over the past 19 seasons, since the year 2000, the Cardinals have had a negative run differential once, and they've finished below 500 once. Their worst season over that entire span,

they went 78 and 84, which isn't even that bad yeah so if you were i mean i know the cardinals have missed the playoffs the last three years and i know that the competitive environment is getting tougher and tougher and tougher but i mean this is aside from i don't know like let's call it database hacking this has like been a model organization for for so long this isn't like the the Braves winning what 13 out of 14 National League East titles or whatever it was but like the Cardinals have been admirably competitive for like most of my well I would say my entire adult life I don't even I wasn't even

an adult yet in 2000 by any sense of the word but I was at least a conscious, horrible teenager. And in 2000, they were good. And then every single season since then, except for one, they've been in the hunt. And that's truly remarkable on their behalf. I don't know how an organization does that as there's so much change that takes place, but credit to them. And I don't know what it would take for the Cardinals to kind of throw in the towel. I'm not sure it's even possible. Yeah. And another kind of interesting minor move that the Diamondbacks made, by the way, was signing Merrill Kelly, a right-handed pitcher who has never been in the big leagues. He was a raised minor leaguer, but he just went to the Korean Baseball League and pitched well there for a few years.

baseball league and pitched well there for a few years. He just won a championship and now he is coming back and hopefully he will be better than he was the last time he was over here. And that was just a two-year deal, five and a half million, but they are hoping that that will be kind of a find who for a lower price can replace the losses of Corbin and of, you know, Tywon Walker. We kind of forget about him, but he's going to miss probably at least most of the season because of Tommy John surgery. And then they non-tendered Shelby Miller and Zach Greinke is probably going to be going somewhere. So they needed some rotation help.

And Merrill Kelly is an interesting solution to that problem. It's been fun reading Jeff Passan's tweets because I'm going to guess Passan is in touch with Merrill Kelly's agent, whoever it is. So Passan is getting all the scoops on what's going on with Merrill Kelly. And every single time he tweets about Merrill Kelly, just invariably the first 15 responses he gets are just that gif of that wrestling person being like, who the fuck is that guy? We've all seen the tweet. But Kelly, it's funny because I but Kelly I mean it's it's

funny because I don't know if it's like a data sourcing thing but for any of you who are listening to this and then going to baseball reference which I assume is like 98% of our listening population you'll you'll look up Merrill Kelly's page and it doesn't have his 2018 KBO stats in there you have to go to other websites to try to find them but there was some sort of breakout I think between 2016 and 2017 his strikeout rate just jumped by like two batters per nine innings. And something that's maybe most important to keep in mind about the KBO, now it's worse in talent than the Japanese leagues. You know, there are fewer cases of success stories coming from Korea, but it's a very high offense environment. And so you'll look at Kelly and think, oh, maybe his ERAs aren't as low as you think.

And there are some other domestic, like American players who have gone to Korea and who have pitched similarly well, but like a mid threes ERA in Korea is like really quite, quite good. And it is a more of a power hitting league than the NPB. So in terms of its overall profile, it looks, I don't know,

kind of like Major League Baseball maybe 15 years ago, would you say? Like there's a lot of power, less small ball, a lot of home runs, a lot of strikeouts, and just, you know, a lot of uppercut swings. And so it's fun. And to have Kelly succeed in that environment doesn't mean he's going to succeed in the majors. That's why he signed for two years and $5.55 million dollars but you know we we've seen success stories before and i think that there is still some sort of advantage to be gleaned by looking for players in japan and korea who maybe don't have like you know the the shohei otani clear upside like if you have great scouting

skills then you're going to get a contract no matter what. If you just go out there and you have a regular repertoire and you have success in those leagues, I think that ends up being a market advantage and you don't have to point beyond Miles Michaelis to see it. All right. So we'll see whether teams have just

made all these moves and winter meetings week will be relatively quiet. I don't know. Probably we'll start to see some movement on Harper and Machado, but it's been a very busy trade market, obviously, with just a lot of star level players changing teams or rumored to be changing teams. And maybe some of those moves will happen next week too. Anyway, I appreciate teams spreading out the transactions a little bit so that they don't just make every move on the same three days in las vegas next week that's very nice of them

i like the jerry depoto said after after the cigarette trade he's like i think i think we're we're pretty much done we're gonna be low-key until the winter meetings it's like that's six days away yeah that's not that long. Right. All right. So time to talk to Terrence Gore. Terrence Gore, I guess we have no objective backing for saying that he is the fastest man in baseball. We don't have his stat cast sprint speeds because he hasn't had enough at the major league level to qualify for their leaderboards, but probably the fastest and owner of a 90% career success rate in the minors steals wise and 86 in majors very accomplished base runner so we will talk to him in just a moment But with the gladiators Everyone a rager But secretly their saviors

Glory and gore go hand in hand That's why we're making headlines You can try and take us But victory's contagious All right, so we are joined now by one of the players whose careers we have found fascinating and enjoyed watching and talking about over the past several years. It is Terrence Gore. Hey, Terrence, how are you?

I'm good. I'm good. Well, this may be a silly question. I don't know. There may be no point before which you realized that you were extremely fast. I know that you were a great high school athlete, but was there a first moment or an age at which you kind of realized that, wow, this is, I'm not just fast, I'm like extremely fast?

Honestly, probably I would say when I got to sixth grade, I wasn't as fast. I was a lot of average because when we do PE, I would do like a shuttle drill with some erasers. They would put on each side. I would have to run back and forth to get them. And I would do like a shuttle drill with some erasers They'll put on each side I don't have to run back and forth to get them how coming probably like third or maybe fourth in like my class and so I kid you not seventh grade came around and I didn't grow any of course in a Did that same show drill and I started winning I was a first and I see you know eighth grade came I won again and eighth grade um buddy actually he's

like you know what you should try football i was like what football so yeah just come play with us like because i can always like be with them and hang out with them more so all right cool so i did it and i kid you not i was so much faster than everybody else and it's carried me all the way through up to here huh so it wasn't that you suddenly had a growth spurt or anything it just kind of happened did you not train or it was like a fast fast growth spurt or anything? It just kind of happened? Did you train? No, it was like a fast twitch spurt or something. I don't know. Because sixth grade came around,

I wouldn't have passed this kid in my class at all. And seventh grade came around, and I was the fastest in eighth grade, and just kept on going from there. Maybe there's hope for all of us. Maybe I'll be fast at 32 suddenly. Now, you played a little football in high school, right? And you spent some time at running back, but you also spent some time at wide receiver.

It seems to me, just intuitively, I don't know football that well. You played more than I did. But it seems to me that wide receiver would make a lot more sense for somebody with your skill set. What exactly was your experience? I don't think I'm telling any secrets here. were a slighter of build as a as a football player goes so the idea of putting you at running back you know it's a there's some vulnerability there so where did you feel uncomfortable actually yeah my team uh we ran the wing t so we really we really wasn't our actual like passing team we didn't have a quarterback that could throw the ball

like more than 15 yards so we ran the wing tee, and I was a slot receiver sometimes. I was a slot receiver, or either I would be in the backfield on one side, and we would just run the wing tee options. It was almost like a group of tech kind of thing. For just health and self-preservation, I know baseball makes a lot more sense, especially at your size, but do you miss just the amount of running that you get to do in football as opposed to baseball? No, honestly, I do not like running. You can ask anybody that really knows me.

I literally despise running. I don't like it at all. I don't like getting tired. I get tired so quick. It's crazy. Because I guess even when I'm training now, like it at all i don't like getting tired i get tired so quick it's crazy because i guess like even when i'm like training now like i can do like like i'll work out but if i do that one set i gotta take like two minutes take a break i'm like gassed and it's not like i'm in shape i just

use all my energy like so so fast and it's like gone so i mean i don, I don't, I mean, I'm not a big, I mean, I'm really fast, but I don't like to actually run. Yeah, I guess. Where you come from, you know. Yeah, 90 feet is a good distance then, I guess. Yeah, that's as far as I need to go. I mean, in football, I felt like my career would be a lot shorter in football because injuries and stuff like that. I only played it all the way up through high school. I played my senior year.

My mom told me not to actually play it, but I wanted to play it just because I would say it shaped more. So I rolled into baseball season with it. So that's the only reason I kept playing it. I think when you're writing, and if you're really good at writing, after a while you start to hate what you write. If you're into music, you write a lot of songs,

and you start to hate what you write if you're into music you write a lot of songs you start to you start to hate what you do yeah i wouldn't say hate but i just don't like it as long as it ain't long distance like if i did crossfit i would literally get destroyed by everybody because i cannot i physically could not just keep going like one after another like another like they don't stop and cross it and i would just burn out i'll just uh i'll pass out probably well maybe that answers the question i was going to ask which i think would surprise a lot of people that you didn't really run track a lot and people would think well he's super fast he would be a track star well in high school you know track is the same time as a season. My baseball coach would not let me go down there and run track because I ran like 100 meters slow.

Well, short is one, of course, because I didn't want to run long distances. But I would run as short as one. He was my government teacher, and he literally was like, please, just come down here for one week and just run, please. And he would beg every day. And I was like, you've got to talk to my high school baseball coach because he told me not to. Baseball comes for a track.

Did you ever do a race? Did you ever run? Nope, not one time. So, when you're on the baseball field and either you get the first base or you're inserted as a pinch runner, you go, you steal second base. As you're saying, that'll take a little wind out of your sails.

How much time do you need before you feel like you're actually prepared and ready to try to steal third base? No, it don't take me much time there. My drilling is a good one, man. Stuff like that, I can find. Literally, I could steal the next base and the next pitch if I wanted to.

So it's not that the fact that I get tied that quick is just when I get my actually good jump on or reading that pitcher. So the thing that makes you really valuable in this role is not just that you're fast, but that you're just a really good base runner and base stealer and have good instincts. And people will compare you to Herb Washington, for instance,

but he was really fast, but he wasn't that great a base stealer. Yeah, I mean, it takes some skills to do it. You can't just track down and go run bases, because there great a base stealer. Yeah, I mean, it takes some skills to do it. Like, you got to, you can't just, you know, track down and go run bases. Because, I mean, there's a lot into it. You got to actually, like, I study pitchers. Like, that's one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to baseball.

Like, I study pitchers a lot. Like, especially in a major league level, when you got the computers, and you got all that technology, I just study it and study it and study it. I find any little key I can think of. Because I've been trained to do that ever since I met Rusty Coots.

So that's all he does. He studies pitchers, and I sit there right beside him, and we would study pitchers. So now that's all I do is study pitchers. Any little thing I can see, I take it, and I just remember it. I write it down. Yeah, what are some of the technique things that you've picked up over the years from certain coaches or other players?

Just, you know, little things to trim a second off here or there? Oh, just, I mean, just keys in general. Like every organization, when I went to the Cubs, they basically told me to do your thing. Because, I mean, they probably know so much from Rusty. There's probably not a coach out there that knows more base running than him. Not one of them. He's the best of the best when that knows more base running than him. Not one of them. He's the best of the best when it comes to base running and outfield. He's the best of the best.

I get in that credit. He's got pitchers. He's got a stack of pitchers. His pitchers have probably been out of the league for two or three years now. He's still got them right now. At the major league level, you've still on 32 bases at the major league level. And I think you've been caught four or five times, including the playoffs. There's a couple of pickoffs in there.

But so much of base stealing, we all – from the analytics side, we all really started to study base stealing when Billy Hamilton was promoted. And it's really – it's a math problem, right? It's just it comes down to how many tenths of a second somebody takes to get to second base versus pop time and all that stuff. Sir, for you, you're so quick. Getting picked off is one thing, but when you're actually running, what does it take for you to be thrown out? If I get my jump, the jump that I like to get, I could tell you, like, I've been still making so long now. To this day, when I break them them first two steps after them first two steps in my mind i can i can literally i don't have to look at the catcher the pitcher or nothing

i could tell you whether it's going to be a close play or it's going to be just i'm just going to be safe i've just been doing it for so long like my body just like knows i don't know it's weird so when you do get caught occasionally i mean maybe it takes a quick move to the plate and a strong throw and everything but usually you feel like yeah oh that was you know i didn't get the right jump or something yeah yeah i don't give the pitcher or the catcher any credit if i get thrown out because i got thrown out and i'm human i will get thrown out but it's my mistake uh-huh because if we did that like probably out of five times i'm still i'm gonna be safe more than i like three out of them five times i'm gonna be safe and uh you of course uh participated in the most recent playoffs,

and you entered as a pinch runner after Anthony Rizzo hit a single off Adam Montevino. You came in, and you stole on the first pitch. Now, Adam Montevino this season, he was slow to the plate. He was one of the worst pitchers in baseball at holding runners on. But is it a matter of just confidence? How hard is it to convince yourself to take off on the first pitch especially on on the playoff stage even though you're dealing with a pitcher who's who's really really slow and doesn't pay a whole lot of attention to uh to

the runner right well like you said he's i mean he's he's slower to play i knew that he uh i knew the i mean i knew the catcher behind the plate drew patera he played with me so i know him and i know he had a meeting with him right before I got over there. I guarantee that meeting, I said, dude, just get the batter because you're not going to throw him out. I just went with it. I just trusted my abilities. I'm not trying to waste no time.

I'm not trying to put my hitter in a bad count because he's taking pitches for me to get in second. Yeah. Is it the same studying video i mean do you need to see a picture in real life from first base to really get his move or no no not really but i mean it helps it's always something to have in your back pocket i feel like in today's world it's harder to steal bases into my leagues rather than the big leagues to me because you don't have film you don't know those pictures like you don't know guys that come up from double a to triple a or from low a you don't know what

you have you don't know how fast this pickoff move is you don't know anything because you're just going out there just you just got to go have the games going on yeah right and i know that uh when you were with kansas city people used to always want you and dyson to race and wanted to know who was faster and i don't know whether you ever ended up doing that, but have you ever had teammates challenge you or had kind of? No, not one teammate has ever challenged me. Not one. And if they did, I probably wouldn't even race them because I didn't want to risk me or that other player getting injured or something silly like that. Because it's really easy to pull hammies.

If you end up playing a game in Atlanta, it's not hard to see you in the flash going at it, but I guess that's something for a little later. Now, obviously, we're – I know him personally. We message and text all the time on Twitter. So in your estimation, is he fast fast, or is he fast compared or is he like fast

compared to the average baseball fan who's trying to compete against him fast? I think he's just, he's a, he wouldn't be a really good base dealer.

He'll be a really, I mean, he's good at what he does. Like he gains speed as he goes. I don't know if he has that pick up speed at the beginning though.

If he does, he's probably really good. But that's all it's all about. Like if you got really really good if you get to your top speed really quick you'll be a good base runner and have like instincts and like just some some kind of like knowledge you'll be okay you'll survive gotta get that stat cast first step measurement for uh for the flash and see how he does compared to the fans now obviously you you've made your name in the major leagues as a runner. We're talking to

you mostly about your running. In a sense, you've been kind of pigeonholed as a Terrence Gore. He's like one of the best base runners in baseball. That's why he's on the stage. But you also came to the plate twice in that playoff game against the Rockies, and you were facing tough pitchers, and you were batting in some high leverage spots. Now in those situations, I know there was a lot of consternation. People were like mad in the bottom of the 13th inning. You come up, you work a full count and you end up swinging at just a wicked slider out of the zone. And then people are just complaining like, why did Terrence Gore swing the bat? You know, why didn't he just try to draw a walk? So here we go. Oberg set the 3-2. Got him swinging. Wow. And he made him chase too, to your point, Alex.

How do you avoid, if you do avoid, just taking it as an insult when people forget that you are a baseball player and not just a base runner? I don't really take it as an insult. That's their opinion. If they were freaking good enough to be there, they would be there. They wouldn't be sitting in the stands that's the way i look at it like if you just draw down to that like you can say all you got to say but you're still behind the fence like you're not playing and there's a reason why you're not playing so that's the way i look at it did you think about that in that spot on the full count just man i gotta get on base lead off man i'll just oh no question about everybody in the stadium i i personally want to get on base. And I, to this day, would not think that a pitcher would throw a 3-2 starter at all to me. Because the last thing he wanted to do was walk me.

Because you know what I'm going to do when I get on the bases. But he did. I mean, good pitch. I swung at it. Got out. But I tell people all the time, like, I tell all the time, like, if I wouldn't have stole that base, got on second, and Bias wouldn't have hit that ball in the gap and I would have scored,

we might have even been in it at all. So just take it how you want to take it. So you've been now in AAA for a few years, and you've kind of been on this strange schedule where it's almost like September is your time to shine. You know that you're going to be in the big leagues. You know that probably you'll be with a playoff team and you'll get a shot in these really important moments. I mean, are you just as motivated for the first few months of the season or are you kind of looking forward like, you know, I just got to get to September?

Well, that's my time to start working on my, that's just my time to work on my actual game in baseball because that's when i like that's where i get to play like more often than in the big leagues so that's why i really i mean i don't really still as many bases as i should around me because i don't really worry about it until like when it gets later in the season yeah early in the season i'm trying to put the ball in play get on base get my own base percentage up hit a couple doubles triples stuff like that i want to work on my game like outfield drills and stuff that. I want to work on my game, like outfield drills and stuff like that. I want to work on

defensive work and stuff like that. During that season, when they put me in AAA, that's what I want to go. I've had managers tell me all the time, I've had managers say, why are you not stealing? I mean, if he gives it to me easily, fine, I'll steal it. But if he's like one more into the plate, I'm not

going to force anything that's not there. I'm just going to wait my turn and hopefully make a want to pull a muscle or something and ruin your chances yeah yeah i'm not gonna do anything crazy what do you do to keep yourself in condition and prevent that stretch a lot i stretch a lot i work out, eat healthy, just like everybody else do. I don't know, stay healthy as possible. You don't really think about it. You don't try to think about getting injured. When you think about getting injured,

that's when you get injured. Now, I know that you were with the Royals for a long time and I know that a lot of the Royals players were happy when you got your first big league hit off Max Scherzer,

but for four years in a row there, now, you know, you were with the team in spring training, then you go down to the minors, and you would get called up in September, and how much did you feel like you got to be a part of the clubhouse, sort of a part of the team environment, when you were such a late-season entry to the roster? I knew those guys, though, like,

because the way the Royals, I don't know how some organizations do, but the Royals, they put, in spring training, do, but the Royals, they put in spring training, they put all their big league players and their minor league players, the one that even goes down in the same way. So we talk, we chat,

like I've known all of them for a long time. So it was a lot easier to get caught up as a tournament. Oh, hey guys, I'm back. Like they knew, but it was just a lot easier because I've been around them

for so long. And what was it like to get that hit? Was it a big weight off your mind, and especially coming against Scherzer? Oh, definitely, and that is crazy. Because actually, Scherzer was still going in nice, and I'm like, Joe, he said, go get a bat.

I'm like, really? Scherzer? But as I'm on deck, I'm like, you know what? It'd be really cool if I got hit on freaking Matt Scherzer right now. That's the first thing I thought about as I'm on deck. And sure enough, I got hit, and I'm like, you know what, that actually happens to me more often. Yeah.

Up the middle and through. Back-to-back hits. So, you got your first big league hit off, but then the season before, down in the minors, it was in June, facing Scott Copeland, who has been a major league pitcher. He even showed up in the majors in 2018.

You hit an out-of-the-park home run. It was your only so far professional home run. It was six years after you debuted. What do you remember more vividly, getting the hit off Scherzer or hitting the homer off Copeland? Well, for all the major league hit. Minor league stats don't really, I mean, they count, but they don't really count until you get to the major league. Nobody really looks at your minor league stats when you get to the major league.

So they're all about major league stats. So I would definitely say my first hit off Scherzer. 3-2 coming. Smug on, hit in the air by Gore. Left field and deep. Is this it? It is! The first professional home run

for terence gore and the storm chasers get two here in the second he almost hit one yesterday and he does here today and the storm chasers are right back in it back in it Terrence Gore that was professional at bat number 1948 and for the first time in his career he hits a home run I've actually hit two home runs by the way just to correct that you can look it up Burlington North Carolina my rookie bowl year I hit a home run in the playoffs doesn't count I did it. You can ask anybody on that team that was on there. You can ask both stars. You can ask all of them that was on that team.

I hit one that day. But it didn't count, of course, in the playoffs. What has to happen for that to happen, for you to hit a home run? Is it the same swing you put on anything else? The same exact swing. I don't really try to hit a home run yeah they're likely not going to happen so i just put the ball in play if it goes out it goes out i'll take triples and doubles over home run any day i like to throw bases so yeah i feel weird trotting around the bases nobody's throwing a ball at me yeah and is it still your ambition that i want to be an everyday player in the big leagues or are you? Yeah, every year. That's what I strive for every day.

That's what actually, since I'm a free agent, that's actually, I don't really want to go to a contending team, honestly, because I've been really going to sit in AAA and wait to September. So I want to go to like a non-contending team where I can play every day, show my skills, and hopefully get called up even before September. Yeah, that's interesting. And I guess you could always get traded too late in the year if a playoff team wants you. Yeah. Have you, I know it's early in the offseason, but have you feel like you've been getting bites?

Have there been teams reaching out? Or is this one of those situations where you feel like teams are going to wait for a while before they start thinking about filling out their roster, and maybe right now they're looking at higher priorities? This week, I've talked to him probably four or five times, and we've got probably 13 to 14 teams on me already. Wow. We're waiting on the right contract to come around and go from there.

Do you feel like you missed your era? Do you feel like if you had played in the 80s, you know, with Ricky and Coleman and all those guys, do you wish it were like that today? I mean, it would have been a lot easier, I'll tell you that. But I don't take anything from those guys at all. I mean, they still had to go out there and bust their butt each and every day. Yeah, stolen bases were just more common.

You could, I mean, you know, teams. Yeah, I don't think they, I don't think back then they didn't really worry about stolen bases. It wasn't a big deal to them. Even today, some major league pitchers don't even worry about stolen bases. Like, some really don't even care. Some of them got the mentality, which is a good mentality. You got to get them first to actually fill the base. Are you on some sort of

group text with Herb Washington and Quinton Berry just talking about how we're like three of the fastest runners? No. Not at all. That would be funny, though. Who do you think is the fastest player you've seen other than you? I mean, there's a lot of fast players out there.

Raul Monassi is really impressive to me. He's actually, like, when he gets up and going, like, he got a really good, he gets his top seed quick, but once he gets it, like, fully, like, when he's rounding, like, he's hitting a triple, and when he's rounding second, he's really impressive to watch. Like, me, myself, I'm like, wow, that's pretty impressive. I'm like, yeah, just for him, like, wow, that's pretty impressive. I'm like, yeah, just for a minute.

I'm like, round and you're taking me, probably. Yeah, maybe a little more stamina. I think 90% of the questions we've been asking you about your foot speed and the major league teams are going to know you. You've made a name for yourself and they're going to know you for how well you run the bases.

But like you said, your ambition, you're still in the prime of your career, you want to be an everyday player, maybe at least a fourth out if you're on a major league roster for six months at a time. Do you feel like when you're down at the minor league level, are you getting the kind of attention that you want to develop as a hitter, or do you feel like you've just been sort of pigeonholed as this guy that they just want to keep healthy until Septemberember rolls around i get some opportunities uh some organization i get my opportunity a little more some i don't it just depends on the organization i actually go with so there's times where i used to sit on the bench for literally like a full week and then i

would play one day and sit another week and it was just i mean there's i get it there's prospects there's guys like young guys that just got to get their reps in. Like, I get it. There's a lot of guys. Some have to play. I get it. I mean, it's not an issue with me. I'm just trying to actually get on a team where I know I can play every day.

And your first playoff game was one of the most exciting ones that we've seen, the AL wildcard game in 2014. And you did get a steal in that game. It wasn't off John Lester. Gore on the move. The throw. Right. Second and third.

It's taken seven innings for the Kansas City speed game to come into play in this game. And they're right back in it. Do you remember, like, were the Royals thinking, did you guys all know about Lester not throwing to first base, and were you all thinking? Yeah, we did. That's the first thing Rusty said to us.

He said, to get that biggest lead you possibly can think of, and still, just go. He said, he won't pick over, just go. Nowadays, he actually picks them, but you never know now. Yeah. I mean, even if he doesn't pick, he still has a really good slot step. Right. That's the thing about oppressive by Lester.

Even though he doesn't pick and everybody knows he doesn't pick, you getting out that far, it's mentally just – it scares you. It's like, dude, all he has to do is roll the ball over there. Yeah. And everybody's like, what are you doing? So, I mean, mentally, as a person, as a base dealer, it still stinks to know your coaches are telling you, just get a really big lead.

He's not going to pick on you. But when you get out there and it's actually happening, you're like, I'm way out here. All he has to do is roll the ball over there, and I'm out. Yeah. Yeah, that was something we wondered about because there were those years where he would never throw over, and guys would take big leads,

but not as big as you could take in theory if you know a guy's not going to throw. But just, yeah, psychologically, I guess it's difficult. It's just not in your comfort zone. You're not comfortable. It's too steep for you. You're like, what am I doing? So you obviously, you've shared a clubhouse for several years

with Gerard Dyson, and Dyson sort of came up with a similar profile. He was a runner. He was a defender at first. But he wound up earning himself. He followed an atypical career trajectory. And now he's become like an established semi-regular player. You know, he draws a good number of walks.

Great defender. Great runner. And he sort of like really broke in as a semi-regular at the age of 28. So everybody follows their own career trajectories but do you consider gerard dayson kind of like your your closest career like role model and uh and parallel yeah he's a good good guy to follow me particularly he's a great guy he's a 50 round pick he busts his butt each and every day he don't play as much when he does he tries his best he gives it all he i mean he's just a really good player.

Good teammate. He keeps the clubhouse laughing no matter what. He's probably one of the best clubhouse guys you can have on your team. 50th round pick, but the first pick of that 50th round, I'll tell you what, he was the best of all those picks in the 50th. Yeah, I bet he was.

Do you have a favorite base running moment i mean just you know at any level of baseball just in terms of like i can't believe i scored on that play or i i took a base on on that like the kind of play where you don't usually get to advance i mean there's a couple i don't know i mean there's some that's pretty impressive. We're playing against the Twins, and I was on first. The guy threw a wild pitch to first. I was at third. Two pitches later, Mike Gersley was like, he throws his ball in a dirt here,

and if he goes anywhere close away from the catcher, you just go. Sure enough, I went. I was safe and won the game. That was probably one of the coolest ones because, I mean, it was just everything happened the way ones because, I mean, it was just, everything happened the way I wanted it to happen. Yeah. Well, this is why you have a guy like Gore,

and he made the roster because of this situation right here. This guy, when he takes off to steal a base, he is at full speed and half a step. I mean, the minute he moves, he's at full speed. And the throw gets away. Triple. And it goes into shallow right. Gore is going to head for third. And he's in there. And that throw almost got away from Ploof. Bounces away. Here comes Gore. Play at the plate. Royals win it. So one of, in this era of baseball, obviously in this era of shifting now,

you're not a guy who's going to go to the plate and face a whole lot of shifts, but bunting has become a greater source of conversation among fans, among team people, just talking about how, why don't players bunt more? Why don't they just try to get on base? And as somebody who is incredibly fast, obviously teams have always tried to leverage your skill. I'm sure you've tried to leverage your skill, try to get down the line as fast as possible. I was wondering if you could spend a little time, maybe bunting comes really easily to you. I don't know. But if you could have a conversation with just like a standard baseball

fan who's asking, why don't we see more bunting in the game today? Could you explain exactly how difficult bunting, major league, and even AAA pitching is right now? The pitching, the ball itself, it moves so much. And you try to bunt it standing still is a very, very difficult thing. Sack bunting is really hard. Every time my coach used to tell me to sack bunt, I would try to bunt for a hit. I don't sit there and wait for the ball.

It's like a mind thing. It gets in your mind. And that's why I like sack say bunting's really hard. Bunting in general is really hard. I think people think guys don't bunt because they don't want to. It's a pride thing, but it really is not. Like, bunting is more of a really hard thing to do.

Like, rather than fans thinking that guys don't want to bunt, it's not the fact that you don't want to bunt. It's the fact that it's really hard to do. Yeah, and I'm sure you've tried because, you you know it makes a lot of sense with your speed but it's difficult it takes a lot of practice some goes your way some don't yeah was it difficult for you to make the transition to chicago after so much time with the same guys and in kansas city and winning together there at first first, it was very difficult.

My first time I'd ever been traded. It was like going to a new high school, I felt like. So when I got to Iowa for like two or two and a half weeks, they opened me up with open arms. I mean, I became really good friends with a lot of them there in Nesino and Chicago. And my locker was actually by Rizzo. It was Rizzo and Ian Happ, another young guy. So it was actually

really good. Rizzo's a really nice guy. He's a welcome man. Chris Bryant, a welcome man. Bias, all of them. He's a pitcher. It was actually really cool. None of them really, like, been a jerk or anything. It was just opening up and opening arms. They knew I was there to do it. They knew I was just trying to help that team get better

and score runs and help them out any way I could. So it was actually not as bad as I thought it was going to be. And I guess, lastly, do you still get the same rush from, you know, a whole stadium, knowing you're going to go, everyone on the field knowing you're going to go, and you're still going? I mean, what does that feel like as you're standing there in a playoff game, just everyone knowing what's about to happen? It feels good because, I mean, everybody, like you said, everybody knows where to go. I'm pretty confident.

I did my research and my studies on that pitcher. I'm really confident about it. I just let my abilities take over. It's exciting for me, too, because it's me versus the pitcher and the catcher. I'm basically competing with those guys trying to get second base yeah and i know people i mean people say it's surprising that they're still the same distances and players today are just more athletic and they're faster and you'd think it just wouldn't be far enough anymore to make it competitive but it still is i

guess it's just that pitchers are better about getting the ball to the plate and catchers are better at throwing and it all just kind of evens out to the point where it's still a good balance. Yeah, it's actually perfect balance. I think it's right where it needs to be. Still need to go any farther. Alright, well it's been a pleasure talking. We will look

out to see where you end up and best of luck next season. Sounds good. Thank you very much. Alright, thanks Terrence. Alright, thanks. Bye. out to see where you end up and uh best of luck next season sounds good thank you all right thanks terence all right thanks bye even when you can't forget the times they tried you. Things denied you. Inside the big nameless house. From which everyone's away. Everyone's away.

Alright, that will do it for today and for this week. Thank you for listening. By the way, when Jeff said the flash, he meant the freeze. But Gore knew what he meant. You probably knew what he meant. Both fast guys and spandex, easy mistake to make. That will do it for today and for this week. Thank you to everyone for listening.

And thanks to those of you who support the podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectivelywild. Sign up there. Pledge some small monthly amount keep the podcast going as have the following five listeners amy fontanelle darren cohen matt edigson adam schweber and joe camarada thanks to all of you you can also join our facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectively wild and you can rate and review and subscribe to effectively wild on it iTunes and other podcast platforms. Thanks to Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance.

Please keep your questions and comments coming for me and Jeff via email at podcastoffangraphs.com or via the Patreon messaging system if you are a supporter. I know this is our second week in a row without emails. I'm sorry. Had a lot of transactions to talk about and a lot of good guests. Of course, next week we have winter meetings. I am tied up at home with book deadlines but jeff will be there so we will work around his schedule and around news and get you your usual compliment of episodes so have a wonderful weekend

and we will talk to you early next week i know you said that you'd take me anyway, I came or went But I'll push you from my brain To see how gentle, baby I couldn't stand or bring you pain I was just sorry I'd love her in the moment you saw I was your hurricane rider-eyed lover in the one that you saw I was your hurricane rider in the one that you'd call We were just two moonshiners on the cusp of a breath

And I've been burning for you baby since the minute I left