Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 1397: Stripling Explains it All

Episode Date: July 1, 2019

Ben Lindbergh and Sam Miller talk to Ross Stripling, Los Angeles Dodgers starter and host of The Big Swing, about why he started and enjoys doing a podcast, how Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman influenced his pitching style, how he uses data to prepare for opponents, and how he feels about pitching in […]

I'm blowing up the street like a leaf I skid my back a few times, you'll see Head over heels, my hands on my heart I'm making a promise and that's a start You're leaving a trail for me I see you up in the tallest tree You're throwing things down at me I'm starting to climb while I'm starting on my knees

Good morning and welcome to episode 1397 of Effectively Wild, the baseball podcast from Fangraphs.com, brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Sam Miller of ESPN, along with Ben Lindberg of The Ringer. Hey, Ben. Hello. And we have a special guest today, another podcast host. He hosts a podcast called The Big Swing, and his name is Ross Stripling. He's the pitcher for the Dodgers. Hey, Ross. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. So you have a podcast that is 20, what, 27 episodes in?

Yeah, so a little bit shy of what you guys got. You're getting there, though. You have already done, you've gone through the process that we went through where your first episode was 13 minutes and that, you know, you probably thought, yeah, that's a good episode. And within 27 episodes, you were over an hour, you probably thought, yeah, that's a good episode. And within 27 episodes, you were over an hour, which happens, I guess, to everybody. So your last guest was Rich Hill, who is a, I would say an icon of our particular podcast. So people will enjoy that. You've also had Cody Bellinger on who's kind of famous right now. And sometimes you just talk about football with your friend Cooper. So who's Cooper?

Yeah, so Cooper is just a buddy from really from college. His wife and my wife are best friends. So we got close. And he just always kind of wanted to start a podcast. And I said, yeah, man, I'm in. And, you know, the first thing we ever said was, hey, we don't want it to be a Dodger podcast. I was like, agreed. I don't want it to be a Dodger podcast either. But turns out that's my network, obviously. So, you know, it's definitely become very baseball centric. I think as football season comes around, you know, we'll start talking

fantasy football and stuff like that. But it'll it'll always be a lot of baseball, a lot of Dodgers. But we try and change it up as much as we can. I love the way that baseball I feel like baseball players are, I mean, in a nice way, but sort of impatient with how fans, how fans are sometimes with their, with their fantasy baseball teams and their, you know, you got to do better than that kind of mentality. And it's like, well, we're trying really hard. Like we're, it's a hard job. And then, and then I always see baseball players themselves with their fantasy football teams. And in a lot of ways are exactly the same way to football players or to basketball players do you ever notice the irony there oh yeah

you're you're spot on i even said that to someone the other day where so like right now i get a ton of stuff on twitter because i'm back in the starting rotation so i guess that makes me more valuable to fantasy baseball so i get tagged and stuff all the time from guys that play fantasy baseball. I only went three innings the other day. So everyone was mad at me, you know, and I think about, you know,

the guys that I've, I've shouted out on Twitter, just like before Monday night football game, just like, you know, Hey, at Christian McCaffrey, I need you to kill it tonight kind of stuff,

you know? So yeah, it's definitely ironic. When someone tags you on Twitter, do you see it or have you set up your filters such that you only see like blue checkmark mentions? No, I see just about everything. You know, it depends on the day. Sometimes you get way more mentions than others and you may not sift through them all. But typically I see them. So why a podcast? What was it about it that

excited you? What is it that you hope to get out of this? You have a pretty important job. Yeah. Well, that's a good question. I think originally we just kind of wanted to just be two guys just kind of bantering back and forth about stuff that we enjoy and it would keep us close. And then we really enjoyed doing it. And it's kind of one of those things that if you do it, you might as well go all in and try and get people to, to really listen to you. So I had never listened to a bunch of podcasts, but I started listening to part of my take and Seth Rogan and you guys and some others and, and really enjoyed them. And it was just like, you know, I think that, um, I could do it and I have a cool network of, you know, obviously baseball buddies and, and I live in LA and might have access to some other

people and I might be able to really, you know, put out some content that people want to hear. And it's been a lot of fun. We don't really have a whole lot of direction and we don't know where we're going. We're kind of winging it, but it's been a ton of fun. And, you know, we're going to kind of keep doing it as long as it's stress-free and not, you know, obviously taken away from what I'm trying to do on the baseball field. Yeah, and the Professional Athlete Podcast is sort of a recent trend. I guess it started in basketball where there is a literal podcast named Winging It, but there are also some baseball ones now, and it's kind of less formal.

It's players' friends just talking to each other about their jobs and about their lives, the things that might not necessarily come up on a regular interview. And you don't get the cliches and the kind of polished, I'm talking to a media person sort of conversation. And it's kind of like, you know, behind the scenes. And as you said, you have lots of guests who are right there and can come on. So it makes sense. Yeah, I think, yeah, you're spot on. I think we wanted to maybe show another side of the guys in the locker room that maybe the media, you know, can't quite get. But so far, you know, I'm trying to figure out how to interview my friends, which is kind of a goofy thing, you know.

But the other day, like you said, we had Rich Hill and he's great. I basically just let him tell a story because it's so incredible. And I just kind of sit back and let it happen. So we're, you know, kind of back and forth with figuring out how to like interview guys and make it sound, you know, yeah, like we're just two buddies sitting back having a beer chatting about baseball. Yeah, I love it. I feel like most of the time when a ballplayer or a public figure is interviewed, you're, you know, you're trying to kind of get information out of the interview, but it's all a little bit, I don't know, everybody's trying to keep themselves

safe. And when you guys are talking, when you're talking with, you know, a teammate, it is not really about, well, are we going to produce information? It's really more about like, this is just what it's like when we're gabbing. And it's really interesting to me to hear the, how loose it gets, how kind of open you guys are. And there was a moment, I don't know, it's a very small moment. I don't know. I doubt you noticed this was a moment. But when you you introduced Rich Hill to the episode and Rich says something like, you know, congratulations on the success of the podcast so far, Ross, I know if it's you, I know it's going to be a hit. And you went, thanks. And you had such a tone of like of like actually genuine gratitude at the compliment. And it wasn't like, oh, yeah, thanks. Like it was like your voice kind of changed.

It went up an octave and you're like, thanks. That's what it was. Thanks. Like that. I loved it. Yeah, that was genuine for sure. That was a that was a compliment that hit home and I appreciated it. Yeah, that was genuine for sure. That was a compliment that hit home and I appreciated it. So I'm glad you picked up on that. Is anybody making fun of you in the clubhouse for having this podcast? Because podcast is kind of a nerdy word and probably, I mean, it's not a new technology or anything like that, but it is definitely like a, it is like saying I'm a blogger, right? Right. Yeah. Kind of a trigger word or whatnot. I would say a little bit. I don't think they're really making fun of me. Some people might just be like, oh, is this

going to go on your podcast or whatever, you know, just kind of like chirping at me. But really, man, I have even like Dave Roberts came up to me the other day and he's like, strip, when am I going on your podcast? And I was like, what? I didn't even think that was remotely on your radar. So if anything, I have guys that are kind of like anxious to get on there and, you know, kind of have some fun with it, but and see what it's all about. So that's that's cool when I have guys actually like actively seeking me out that want to come on. That makes my life easier. And do you get team media people? Are they involved at all? Did you have to get this green lit? Are they anxious about players sort of

speaking in an unsupervised public way? Or do they think this is good? People will get to know our players and they'll like them and appreciate them in a different way. So I think it's mostly the latter. I think that they, you know, hopefully know that I'm a college educated man and I'm not an idiot and I'm not going to like get, you know, the guy on there and start, we're not going to start talking about, you know, God knows what, you know, I think they know that I'm going to keep it within the, uh, the, uh, normal radar of things to talk about. So I think so far, no, one's really given me a hard time. I think maybe as it grows, we might have to monitor a little bit more, but right now, I don't know if you want to call it like a grassroots or what you'd call it, but it's, it's definitely not a giant podcast by any means. And, and, uh,

we're keeping it, you know, definitely within the, uh, the morals that we're supposed to do, if that makes sense. Is it edited if you accidentally say, or not accidentally, but if you just kind of get over your skis a little and start talking about something that you wish you hadn't said, do you edit it? Oh yeah. Big time edited. We, we've talked about maybe trying to do like a live stream kind of thing. And I don't, I don't think we're there yet because, uh, you know, if you think about Bueller, you guys might know when you give Bueller a

microphone, there's an F bomb coming out. It's just a fact, but he just gets fired up. So yeah, we've, we've had to edit a few things out for the most part. It stays pretty clean. But there's been a couple that we've definitely had to like, all right, we're going to get that out of there. All right. Well, I don't know. Should we talk about the thing we came to talk about? Should we go on with the framing device of this podcast? Yeah. So we're going to walk through some important bets from your career, some guys you've faced. We're going to get your thoughts on what you were thinking, why you threw this or why you threw that. And I have linked up each of the videos of those plate appearances queued up to the right timestamp

on the show page for this episode. So you can pull up the episode summary on your phone. You can look at it on a browser. You can follow along with each pitch as we discuss it. I just have a couple general things before we get into the individual at-bats. I know you've told this story before because you told it to me last year in the Citi Field Clubhouse, but you have talked about how Andrew Friedman gave you some pointers back in your rookie season, and that's affected how you have pitched since. And that's probably something that will come up in some of these at-bats we're talking about. The tips that he gave you, the data he showed you, how you have pitched since. And that's probably something that will come up in some of these at-bats we're talking about. The tips that he gave you, the data he showed you, how you changed as a result.

So I'm wondering if you can walk us through that conversation and just generally how information, numbers, data, technology drive your pitch selection and sequences from start to start. Of course, yeah. I mean, that's a giant question. And we can dive into more individual parts of it. But the biggest thing was Friedman had Jake Odorizzi when he was in Tampa Bay. And I'll get to that, why that's important. But when I got to the big leagues, I threw fastballs down in the zone because I throw from this high arm angle and my fastball had tilt, good angle on on it and they said that everyone had always told me throw down in the zone down in the zone so i get to the big leagues and i have a good debut but then really after that most of my starts are tough i really battle through and end up with

probably an era close to a five heading into the summer and andrew comes up to me and basically says like hey we're gonna move you down we're gonna option you down we got some stuff we want you to work on i'm like all right you know what is it and they're like we want you to start throwing up in the strike zone with your fastball I'm just like I don't know man like I've always thrown down you know I think that's what gives me success is angle on my fastball and then he showed me this thing where what the average and slug against fastballs down in the zone and what they are up in the zone. And they were staggering, you know, totally different. And he sat me down and he basically put me in front of a computer and he made me watch every single Jake Odorizzi start from like

his whole big league career and how he just lives up in the zone with his heater and gets swing and miss after swing and miss. And I basically bought in, I spent a month in Arizona learning how to throw fastballs up in the zone and tunneling my curve ball out of the same kind of slot so that they both start up in the zone. And then obviously my curve ball falls down to either, you know, low in the zone or below the zone. And basically from then on, man, I was, I was bought in, I was throwing fastballs up and playing everything else off of that. And I think that was just basically a huge turning point in my career. And now when I scout, I basically look at what zone is, and there's still guys that can hit the up zone, but for the most part,

every big league hitter can really hit down. So now I look at fastballs up and away, fastballs up and in, which one's a better hole? Are they both safe? And then, you know, basically which off-speed pitch is safer between curveball slider and then whether changeup's a good option. And then even more, we get these huge sheets that give you as much information as you possibly want, but a lot of them are based off of exit velocity, not necessarily what they average, but actually how hard they hit the ball in each quadrant of each pitch. So then you're really looking at slug and how do you eliminate

extra base hits, which is really how you get hurt in today's game. There's not a lot of times where they're stringing base hits together. It's basically like a walk and a two run homer, and that's how you get hurt. Yeah. Well, that was the other question I was going to ask you. You came up in 2016, so you've pitched your whole major league career in the highest home run era ever. And so this year you've actually done a good job so far of limiting homers, or whether you think, well, this is the ball everyone's using. It's kind of the consistent condition across the league. I'm judged relative to other pitchers. They're dealing with the same thing. I just have to be better than the pitcher on the other side. He's also dealing with this juiced ball? I mean, do you care? Do you mind? Does it matter? Would you prefer not to give up home runs just in general, even if other guys are all giving up home runs too? Well, good question. You know, yeah, you're definitely, you know, on level ground. I'm using the same balls that everyone else is using. So, and I understand that home runs are sexy and,

you know, the 10 year old kid watching at home wants to see home runs, wants to see Aaron Judge hit it 450 feet. You know, that's cool. I understand that. I think that it's gotten a little out of hand. No doubt. You know, I think if we could just go back to even like last year's baseball, that would be great for me and my career. But I mean, that's that's pitching. You know, the object is to basically put it on the ground and keep it in the ballpark and miss as many barrels as you can. So, you know, it's definitely made myself and other pitchers, you know, probably have to kind of change up what they're doing a little bit, especially as now more and more of us are starting to throw up in the zone, which is, yeah, technically you get way more

swing and miss, but you're going to give up a lot more slug up there because the margin for error is so much smaller. So, I mean, man, that's pitching. That's our job. And that's what we do. And, yeah, it stinks that some of these balls are getting hit, you know, 89, 90 miles an hour and are going out of the yard, especially now as it gets hotter and the ball is going to start flying even more. So we just got to combat it as best we can this year and see if maybe they change the baseballs moving forward. I don't know. Do you, uh, would you want, what would be the right way do you think for them to

change the baseballs? Like, would you want it to be kind of an open process that everyone's aware of? It feels to me like if, if they do it that way, there'd be a transparency and maybe there'd be a little bit better control. But on the other hand, it feels like then it's set up this real fight between like the hitters and the batters. I mean, the hitters and the pitchers of like who the league is favoring and that you might then feel like there was, I don't know, you were being targeted or that they were prioritizing one group over the other, if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, that's above my pay grade, probably, you know, they might be able to get all the, you know, I'm thinking about the idea that there's a possible strike coming in 2021 and how like our whole, uh,

players union and all that, like, we're really able to like really come together and, and, uh, you know, get fired up for a cause that we believe in. This obviously would be different because one side would believe one way and one would believe the other. So it might get, um, you know, it might get a little hostile, but I think transparency would be good because right now we're just kind of guessing the balls are juiced. We don't know. We're just guessing they're getting laced tighter. They made them a little harder or whatever they did. We don't necessarily know. So yeah, if MLB sat us down, at least told us what they're doing, at least we would know. And I think that would make things

better. But yeah, I imagine that no doubt there'd at least be some pitchers and some hitters getting fired up if we're, you know, really talking about changing the baseball in one direction or the other. All right. So we've given you a few plate appearances that we thought were interesting plate appearances from your career. And we'll just go through them, I think maybe in non chronological order. And I don't really care which ones we talk about first, but I guess I'll get the, maybe the one that's least pleasant out of the way first. On July 7th of 2018, you started against the Angels. Mike Trout is an Angel.

And he, at that point, had faced you three times. He had singled, homered, and walked. And then he singled in the first, and then he singled in the third, and then you faced him in the sixth inning. So at this point, he's four for four with a homer and a walk against you. And you started him off with a knuckle curve for a called strike. And I'm just curious, at that point, I actually, well, here's a totally random question. When the batter comes to the plate, do you make eye contact with him? Typically not.

If I know him, you know, actually met him in one way or another, maybe you might like look at him for a second, see if he looks at you and do like a slight like head nod. But I would say 95% of the time, no. And do you know Mike Trout? Have you ever met Mike Trout? Have you ever met Mike Trout? I have never met Mike Trout. All right, so when he comes out to the box, does he kind of looks in your general direction,

but he's just kind of, it's sort of like, you're just the background and he's not looking to acknowledge you and you're not looking to acknowledge him. You're focused on your catcher. Right, I've noticed that from him. The first at bat, I do feel like he usually looks at me and maybe gives like a little nod. I think he might just do that to everyone. Yeah. When he, the first, the first at bat of the game, he like, he goes and he,

well, he says hi to the umpire. He taps the catcher with his, with his bat. And then he, he, so then he looks at you too. Like he's just kind of introducing himself to the whole environment. Yeah, I think so. You know, he's just like, hello, I'm the best player that walks the earth. Nice to meet you. Good to see you. I'm gonna go four for four off you today. element to it where you're thinking maybe even that you have to get away from your regular game plan just because whatever you've done against him doesn't work or there's some sort of just intimidation component that comes into it yeah definitely you know you you're a big league pitcher you feel confident but there's always guys that uh you know i don't want to intimidate it's not quite the quite the right word but word, but you just feel at a disadvantage right off the bat because of who he is and what he's done against you in the past.

And you just automatically feel like your margin for error is so small because he just hammers everything. So right off the bat, you're like, man, okay, I've basically thrown him the kitchen sink already. What can I change this at bat to maybe at least get off the barrel? I mean, yeah, he only singled those first two at bat. So technically, um, kept the ball in the yard and he didn't do any damage, but at the end of the day, Mike Trout on first, he can steal bags and then, you know, you got pool holes and upped him behind them. So you don't want a fast guy on base. So obviously you want to keep them off. So yeah, there's a lot swimming through your mind there at the end of the day when you got the best, you know, best baseball player standing in the box, you know, with a lot of success in the past against you. Yeah. I'm not

sure that there's anything in my job that feels as hard as facing like the, like if I had to go up against the very best in the world in like a head-to-head matchup at my job like that i i don't have any equivalent to that and so i i probably would emotionally shut down and in fact a lot of the questions that i'm probably going to ask about a lot of these plate appearances is how did you not emotionally shut down it it is incredible to me how when a strike needs to be thrown you're up there on the middle of there on the mound in the middle of everything, and you throw a strike. And I don't quite know how you do that, because I couldn't do that. But I also don't quite know how you go up against Mike Trout. And I mean, you know, you're,

I imagine that to be a professional athlete takes a great deal of confidence and a great deal of self-confidence and the ability to convince yourself that, you know, you're, you know, that you really are one of the best in the world and that you can get anybody out at any given time. And there is a little bit of self-reinforcement there that, and there's a lot of that that's true. And then there's probably a little bit of self-deception when you need it. And you just, when you're looking at Mike Trout, there's no self-deception possible. You know that Mike Trout is, you know, better than you. Like, I don't know how you'd cope with that.

Yeah. Well, good. Well, now you got me all nervous, man. You know, you just don't have a choice at the end of the day. Like you're up there. What are you going to do? Just like drop the ball and walk off, you know, like, and be like, I'm done. So, you know, you don't have a choice. So, I mean, that's things like that are what separates, you know, you from the 200 kids and your own organization in the minor leagues trying to come take your job. You know, I mean, it's just, that is probably what I would do or what Sam would do. We would just drop the ball and leave and you do not. And that's why you're over this. Yeah. To be fair, the first at bat of that game, his first single was a lazy fly ball to right field. And it just so happened that it was, you know, your right fielder was playing deep and it was a couple feet in too much.

And I mean, it was it was you beat him on that one, but he got the hit. So anyway, so this is the sixth time you faced him and you start him with the with the curve to get it over curve. And that pitch, it's a tried and true pitch. You figure he's not going to swing, you're going to steal a strike, you're also throwing in a in a way your most hittable pitch like that is a pitch you would never throw if you thought that he might be looking for it. So it is like the smart pitch. It's a very successful pitch. Is it a terrifying pitch just because you know, you're throwing a fat curveball in the middle dead i mean that was center center and you know he just he didn't even think about swinging at it

but is it terrifying to put it there yeah so mike trout if anything is passive oh like that's he he's maybe in the last year or two started swinging a little bit more because i think he you know realizes people are throwing him cookies like that one. Oh, oh. So, yeah, it is because he hammers spin. Anything spin in the zone, slider, curveball, in the zone, he just absolutely destroys it. So, yeah, there's a lot of risk there. And I wouldn't say I'm terrified when I let it go because I know that there's a really good chance he's going to take it.

But, yeah, anytime you're throwing Mike Trout just a cookie spin right down the middle, it's got a chance to go a long way. So definitely happy when you see him take that one. So he does take it. You get ahead 0-1. Then you throw him a four-seamer that's up and away. But when you're throwing him that four-seamer up, are you trying to get it away?

Or are you just trying to get it up and in the strike zone? No, typically, if you're going to live somewhere in Mike Trout, you're typically going to live up in. So up is the best place to go. He's a low ball hitter. So if you can execute up and away, he doesn't necessarily damage a lot, but I think I tried to go up and in the last few at bats. So I tried to do up and away there just to change it up

because I was already ahead. So I tried to show him and away there just to change it up and uh because i was already ahead so tried to show him something new and i just missed my spot i think it was you know up and away for a ball and uh yeah the idea there was just to kind of you know it's two for two yeah he hadn't slugged but technically two for two so just try and show him something a little bit different and uh just missed my spot okay and one, one, you throw him a, uh, another curve and this one is, uh, is too low. I believe if I remember this right, are you saving the slider there for two strikes? No, I don't think I would really, I mean, I, I'm not a good example cause I've never gotten them out, but I don't like two strike sliders to him, especially mine. Mine, my slider is not

really a swing and miss slider. It's more of a cutter. It's more of just a thing to get a right-handed hitter or left-handed hitter off the barrel and a little bit slower than my fastball. It's not really a pitch that I ever throw and expect to swing and miss, especially to Mike Trout. So what I did there was a one-one curveball. When I looked at it, I thought it was dumb. In real time, I don't remember what I was thinking, but I watched it. I thought it was a really stupid pitch because like I said, he hammers strike spin. So if that curveball is a strike, there's a really good chance. He's going to hit a long way. So I think my guess is that's why I missed below the zone is, is I didn't really want to give him a chance to, to swing and hit it.

Maybe he would chase it, but yeah, that. But yeah, that wasn't a good pitch. That was almost destined to get me 2-1, which it obviously did. And what would you have thrown if you could do it again? I would have gone up and in. A fastball up and in, yeah. I mean, that's just your best chance against him to limit damage. And so then the next, uh, the next pitch, you, you, uh, we're trying to throw a fastball up and in, uh, and, uh, and that ball went a long way. He Homer. Yeah. And that was just mislocation, right? Yeah. So, you know, essentially got to two one and I got a two, uh, so we're winning two to nothing in that game. So. So I probably think I can be a little bit too much in the strike zone

and thinking, yeah, he might hit it, but maybe it won't be a homer. And I missed my spot. Instead of up in, it's more really like middle up, not even really up. And, yeah, he hammers it for a homer. So I think if I hit my spot, it's probably not a home run. It might be a hit, and we'd survive. But when you miss to Mike Trout, he makes you pay, as seen in this at-bat. And so are you mad at yourself, or do you just think,

you know, I'm pitching a good game. This is the first run I've allowed, and it's Mike Trout. So what are you going to do? A little bit of both, but mostly you're mad at yourself because you missed your spot. You didn't execute. You know, if, if, if I do anything well and what got me here and lets me stay here is that I usually execute pretty well because you know, I don't throw 98. My stuff's good, probably not great. And I really have to locate it and I got to be able to throw,

you know, off speed pitches and fastball counts and all that stuff. And here I got the best hitter in the world staring at me in just a two run game and I'm have a good outing and I can't execute a fastball up and in and he makes me pay for it. So that that's the frustrating part. Not that it's, Oh yeah. You know, Mike Trout did it again to me. It's that, you know, if I hit my spot, then there's a really good chance that it's still two nothing game. And I just have Mike Trout on first instead of now a 2-1 game. And have Justin Upton coming up next.

Right. And as we go through this exercise, you hear some pitchers say, I remember every pitch I've ever thrown to every batter. And I remember what I was thinking at that time. And sometimes it seems like it's true. And other times, if you can check it, sometimes their memory is a little fuzzier than they think. Are you one of the pitchers who thinks that they have perfect recall of of every pitch or are you watching this thinking oh i didn't remember that i threw that there i would say more of the second one i think what i do is i learn that day who i'm facing or that series and i and i learn it you know to a t exactly what i want to do and then once that series is over I learn it to a T, exactly what I want to do.

And then once that series is over, I let it go, and I move on to the next one. And, yeah, I mean, I face the Diamondbacks, Rockies, and the NL West all the time. I got those guys pretty much memorized, and what I do to them and what I have done to them in the past is pretty much ingrained in my head. But guys like Mike Trout that I face probably once a year and some of these other guys we're going to talk about, you know, I had to go back and really watch because I don't necessarily remember their scouting report or, uh, how that at bat exactly went down. I can probably remember the result, but I can't remember, you know, the, where the one Oh pitch was exactly. There's a long, uh, broadcasters and, um, and sometimes

managers love to talk about matchup stats. And if a guy has really good numbers against another guy, they'll sometimes say that, you know, he it's ownage, he owns them. He's got his number. And do you feel like Mike Trout's, um, you know, success against you is in any way an indication that he sees you well, he's, um, you know, he likes hitting against you or is it just completely like wow it's six at bats he's really great i made some mistakes and six at bats doesn't really tell you anything about anything no i think uh i think six at bats isn't is about enough probably getting to where you've had enough of bats to really know whether he sees you well or not and obviously

he does and i would And obviously he does. And I would say that he does. And I would certainly say that I'm not an uncomfortable at bat for Mike Trout because I'm really not a great matchup for him. Yeah. I throw fastballs up and, um, that's one of my strengths, but it's only about 90, 91 miles an hour. And he sees fastballs up every day that are coming in much hotter than that. And he crushes strike spin, like I keep saying, and I throw a whole lot of strike spin. So, you know, I'm definitely not a great matchup for Mike Trout. Now I'll never, you know, tell him that to his face or, uh, or be on the mound and thinking that, uh, you know, this is a terrible matchup for me. I'll compete my butt off and keep trying to get them out. But yeah, I mean, there's, there's no doubt in my mind that,

you know, Mike Trout steps in the box and he's not exactly him out. But yeah, I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that Mike Trout steps in the box and he's not exactly uncomfortable with what I'm throwing up there. All right, last question about Mike Trout. Do you, would you, obviously this choice is out of your hands and so this doesn't matter what you think, but would you rather face him again so that you could get him out and say,

I got Mike Trout out or would you rather never face him again because who in their right mind would wanna face Mike Trout? Right? No, man, I want to face him that you know, that's that's you're in this game to play the best players in the world. And he is the best player in the world. And, and I'd like to tell my grandkid that I got him out one time. So hopefully, that might be the day I dropped the ball and just walk off the mound. Just like I did it. I'm out of here. Very confusing for Justin Upton in that moment.

What is it that Ross Stripling has against me? All right, Ben, do you have a preference for which one we do next? No, whichever you want. All right, let's go to your Major League debut, which is one of the most famous Major League debuts in history, but not nearly as famous as it could have been. I'm going to be, I have to be honest here. The first time your name ever came up on this podcast was the day after that start. And I was pretty mad that you got pulled.

And I was pretty mad for what I would say in retrospect is a pretty ignorant reason. I, I thought that, I mean, I'm a big believer that, you know, there's a lot of ways to define success in this sport and that we should give players a lot of opportunities to be successful in ways other than explicitly does it perhaps help the organization win a World Series some years down the line in some very, very minute and unpredictable way. And so my case at the time was that Ross Stripling, a player I'd never heard of, who in this kind of binary way of viewing prospects and everybody else, to me, I did not know him as a prospect. I did not know you as a prospect. And I thought here he had a chance to be historically significant in a way that a hundred years from now, he would be in baseball trivia books. The world would know him. It would be an incredible accomplishment. The only pitcher to ever throw a no hitter in his big league debut. And the Dodgers instead made the sort of prudent decision to keep you healthy. stripling is going to have a career that justifies that decision. And I think you have,

in my opinion, my ignorance has definitely been proven. You have pitched in the World Series. You have pitched against Mike Trout. You have been a successful starter. You have been in an all-star game. You have helped one of the great, I would say one of the great teams in history, be one of the great teams in history. And the Dodgers did something that was right. But at the time, I could not believe that they pulled you at 100 pitches with five outs to go and history on the line. So that's I'm going to just lay that down. That's the background of this conversation. But so you you're facing Denard Spann with for your first batter of the game. And I don't know, at that point, I'm sure everybody throws their first pitch in the majors with a different backstory. How long had you wanted to be a major leaguer? How, when did you, at what age did you think that it might actually happen? Did it go

from being, I want to be an astronaut to actually, wait a minute, I might actually be a major leaguer. And what was that like? Yeah, well, I love that rant. That was a good one. Yeah, so good question. So I didn't start pitching until I was 18 years old. So I wasn't really the kid in the backyard, you know, pretending to be Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball was never really my first love. I went to a Friday Night Lights football school in Texas. And if you've seen the show or the movie you know kind of what that's like it's actually pretty accurate and and played basketball and then baseball was kind of an afterthought and end up breaking my leg playing basketball

that leads to pitching which I end up doing well as a senior but I don't get draft or don't get recruited anywhere so I end up walking on at Texas A&M and don't get drafted or don't get recruited anywhere. So I ended up walking on at Texas A&M and don't even get a scholarship to my senior year, get drafted by the Rockies as a junior. And I didn't have an agent or an advisor or anything, got drafted in the ninth round by the Rockies. I was like, what? Like, where did that come from? And get a call and they're like, hey, we want you to come be a Rocky. We're going to send you to Casper, Wyoming. You're going to be in rookie ball. And I was like, no, I don't really want to go play professional baseball. Thanks for the offer. And I hung up the phone and the guy calls me back and was like,

what the heck are you talking about? We're going to give you an opportunity to chase your dream. And I was like, Oh no, man, that's not really my dream right now. I appreciate it. You know? And, um, but that was when it really became on the radar that like, Hey, I might, you know, be able to play baseball professionally and, and kind of give this whole thing a shot. And, uh, when really that had never even been remotely in my realm or on my radar at all and, um, end up getting drafted by the Dodgers in the fifth round. And I remember basically having a conversation with my parents and just being, cause I have a degree in finance. I really was pat and still, still do it. If you guys know that I do a lot of stuff with the stock market and off season and I'm a

licensed money manager, which we can get into or whatever, but I have always been very passionate about the business world. And I remember talking to my parents and being like, Hey, you know, I don't really know what to do. I can either go start working an eight to five and, you know, what to do. I can either go start working an eight to five and, you know, building some wealth and, and starting a family and all that kind of stuff. Or I can go make 1100 bucks a month and, and Ogden, Utah, you know, and they were like, well, what, where's your heart? And I was like, I don't know. And, uh, literally it literally was like that, man. And I went and I played baseball and I ended up doing well. And I have Tommy John, same thing. I was like, I'm and I played baseball and I end up doing well and I have Tommy John same thing I was like I'm I quit like I've had a good run I'm not gonna go spend 14 months in

Arizona and my dad was like you were just in big league camp like you have to see this through and I was like all right dad gosh and uh man and thank god that he did that and I basically just fall more in love with baseball every day. And for reasons like that, we're talking right now, which is the kind of the chess match and the brilliance of it and how smart and sophisticated of a sport it is. And, yeah, I mean, my fourth year of the big leagues and we'll talk about the debut and it's, it's just, it's crazy that the kind of full circle that's happened for me from like not loving baseball and not really playing it as a kid to now, you know, kind of basically, um, you know, playing it for a career and loving it and wanting to do it as long as I can. And yeah, that's the long version and kind of a crazy story, but that's how I got to my debut.

And, uh, and yeah, so I'm in San Francisco and you guys can ask me whatever you want. beginning of the game is just a blur and watching this I mean you you weren't overthrowing you you just kind of throw a fastball right on the corner it looks like it could be any other start you look like you're under control did you feel under control at that moment not at all man and then yeah I'm exactly like everyone else you've asked like I don't I don't remember warming up I don't remember the day of getting with my pitching coach, Rick Honeycutt or AJ Ellis before the game and going over the scouting report. I don't remember that. You know, numb is a good word. Like you're just like trying to make time go by as fast as you possibly can. Cause you're just so anxious and so nervous. It's like, man, let's just get to it.

So I can at least see what it's like. And yeah, I mean, it is great. I went and watched that first pitch and you're right. I mean, it looks like I'm just kind of going through the motion and I just happened to throw a fastball down and away, but man, and you could be in my head and feeling what I'm feeling there. I mean, it's, it is a feeling unlike any other that I've, I've, you know, never been able to duplicate or see in any other walk of life that I've had. I mean, it just really is just like a culmination of all the work that you put in is now going into this one pitch that you're going to be a major league pitcher and all the hard work's paying off and you're just so anxious and nervous.

I mean, it's one of those things that's like hard to put into words. And then you go see yourself and it looks like you're just going through the motions. Like, how does it look like that when you know how you felt at that time is just totally different than what it looks like. Right. And then the second pitch, you just lay another fastball in there, more or less over the middle of 90 miles per hour. And he just kind of, you know, lifts a lazy fly ball to Jock Peterson. And now you're a major league pitcher and you've gotten ERA and everything. And so was that, that i mean did it take longer than that for you to settle down and and realize you could get guys out at this level oh man good question you know i think i think not

quite that to that extreme like oh i got denard span out to fly out into the biggest you know part of any baseball park and in the major leagues, I wasn't quite there yet, but it was, you know, it's nice to get, yeah, that first guy out and you're like, okay. And you take a big, deep breath and you're like, all right, let's, let's just get after it. And yeah, I mean, really special man. And, and I don't think I shook AJ Ellis that entire game, you know, you're just going to stay with him, do put whatever he puts down, you're going to throw it. And you know, fricking almost eight innings later, you got a no hitter going and it's crazy. So for, uh, as far as calming yourself down and finding, you know,

getting past that, that blurriness, would you say the bigger moment is getting the first strike, getting the first out or getting out of the first inning? Ooh, good question. As a guy that throws strikes, I never really thought I was going to go out there and throw like 12 straight balls and get pulled. So that was never really in my head, even though all sorts of things are swimming through your head on that day. Getting the first out's a big one.

But really, yeah, getting out of the first inning has got to be the biggest one, you know, is really get three outs and then go sit on that bench in the dugout and really like take a deep breath and be like, okay, wow. Like I just got through an inning in the big leagues. I faced the top of the order of our biggest rival who have won three world series in the last couple of years, you know, and that's when you can really be like, okay, like I can, I can get guys out. I can, um, I can compete and throw, uh, throw my mix over the plate, keep guys off balance and all that good stuff. So I think getting out of the first inning is the biggest hurdle of all those. I one time wrote a long profile of Philip Umber who threw a perfect game.

And, you know, that was clearly the highlight of a career that didn't, there weren't that many great starts in his career, but he threw one perfect game. And he said, the crazy thing is, the dirty secret is that it's not that different on that day. Like you're not, it's not like you're throwing four miles an hour harder or everything is like 50% better. You're basically just out there doing what you always do and getting some good results. So you take a no hitter into the eighth, you leave with a no hitter in the eighth. Was it that different? Was your stuff different? Were you better that day than you've been in any other day of your career? No, not at all. I think that guy hits the nail on the head. It was a mixture of

pitcher-friendly ballpark, a bunch of hitters that have never seen me pitch before. My stuff was good, not great. I was able to keep them off balance with, like I said, a mix that they had never seen before. And maybe just the idea that it was also raining all game and hitting in the rain probably isn't super easy, you know? So I had some things working on my side that night. And, you know, sometimes, you know, whatever you believe, maybe it's God shines down on you for that moment or you're just, you know, lucky every now and then or whatever it was. You know, it just kind of all came together on that day and it stinks that we'll never know if it would have finished or not. But, you know, to have a debut like that is pretty cool. And to have guys like you talking about it for a week afterwards, whether it's the right decision or not, you know.

You know, I'm actually talking back to being mad. I'm mad again. You had 91 pitches, I think, through seven. And so I don't know if you had a sense of how long your leash was. I mean, it is conceivable that you could have, you know, gotten six outs in, you know, 25 or 30 pitches. Had you talked in detail about, like like what you were going to be allowed to to go out there and do or did you pretty much know going out to the eighth that it was like

well hang on as long as you can but this isn't happening no so before the game they said I had 75 pitches you know so actually when the when the eighth seventh inning ended and I was at 91 pitches like you said I thought I was done I thought I thought they would pull me even though I knew the no hitter was going honestly honestly, I did think they were going to pull me at that time. And that probably the worst part about the whole thing that I've said is that I didn't know how many pitches they were going to let me have. I think in a perfect world, you know, it's a two nothing ball game. So we're, you know, also trying to win a major league baseball game. If it's a 10 to nothing game, dog may be able to come up to me and be like,

look, man, you got 15 pitches. Throw it down the middle and let's see if they hit it right at people or whatever. Versus me, I'm still up there at 91 pitches really trying to pitch and get guys out with a mix instead of maybe just kind of throwing strikes over the plate and hoping that they roll it over or hit a deep fly ball that gets caught or whatever. So no, when I was out there throwing, I had zero clue, you know, when my leash was really up and how many pitches they were actually going to let me throw. The final batter was, uh, uh, on help gone. And, uh, you walked him on a three, one fastball that was just a little out of the strike

zone. And you know, that it was a, that was a tough moment to watch because you kind of knew like, okay, Roberts was looking down at the bullpen and that was probably it. And any hope that you had that maybe you'd get to keep going, I mean, that was five crucial pitches and no out, and now the tying runs up and all that. And so that pitch was about a 30% likely to be called a strike according to ESPN stats and information. It was right on the corner. You looked frustrated. Were you, I don't know if you can even remember this,

but were you more frustrated at the call, at yourself, or at the, just the decision that was about to be made, the fact that you were being pulled from a no-hitter? Yeah, probably a combination of all of it, right?, I watched it. I was definitely more frustrated at myself and I'm, you know, dude, I was watching those pitches. I'm just totally out of gas. I mean, I'm missing arm side high, just one pitch after another, you know? So it's, that's, that's just like the easiest way to tell that you're out of gas is I can't even, you know, basically get extension to get the ball over the, over the heart of the plate. And, uh, what's funny is when i watched that

at bat so i get to 2-0 and i throw him a 2-1 fastball and um just right over the heart of the plate and i wanted it takes a big old rip at it and i've always wondered if what if he just popped that up you know and now i got now you know at, I guess, 98 pitches and now only have four outs to go. Does he let me keep going? You know, I'll never know. So I always want, I've never seen Angel Pagan again, but I've always wanted to maybe send him an email and be like, dude, why didn't you just pop that up or something? Like, oh man, cause he took a big old rip when really most people in that situation

probably take, you know, I'm out of gas and I'm 2-0. I mean, I guess, I guess, you know, you get a pitch to hit, you take a, take a rip at it. But man, I, when I watched that again, it just makes me so mad. Just like, why couldn't you just hit a nice lazy fly ball to right field and we could have kept going. Yeah. I couldn't, the expression on your face is, you know, you're shaking your head a little in frustration, I guess, but it's almost like a smile, like a rueful smile or a grimace, maybe. And I don't know if it's frustration, mostly, or just like realizing, well, that's it. And, you know, it came down to this pitch not getting called a strike that could have been called a strike. And now the day is over. getting called a strike that could have been called a strike and now the day is over yeah i think i think you're spot on i think that's what it is and i think that's kind of my personality and i still do that to this day uh similar actions and facial expressions um you know i think it's mostly at myself just like man how do you walk how does this end with a walk you know how do you not

just at least make them put the ball in play you know so definitely frustrated with myself and just the overall situation like wish it could have just been a little bit different and you know could have just somehow been able to finish it and see what could have happened but you know just not the way uh not the way it went that day all right uh Let's go to August 21st of 2017, which was a 12th inning matchup between you and Max Maroff of the Pirates. And this is the highest leverage plate appearance you've ever had. There were, what, two? I think it was a one run lead in the bottom of the 12th, two outs and two men on after you intentionally walked Josh Bell to get to Maroff. And I have like three or four different reasons that I wanted to ask about this one. One is that you were just talking about the role of data in your preparation.

And how, I mean, we've talked a lot about how important that is in the modern game and in modern strategy. And so I don't know if you even know who Max Maroff is now. And so when a guy comes up like that in a huge situation like that, do you have any background on him? Do you have any prep? Do you feel in any way that you're kind of naked out there? Or is it kind of the reverse? If you don't know the guy, you probably sort of know that he's he's uh you know he's probably a you know a triple a guy without much experience and you're gonna you you you are mike trout to him yeah in

a sense yeah i'm someone's mike trout that's a cool way to think about it um you know no man i i i it frustrates me to have no information because that's what, that's what gives me peace of mind. And that's what makes me feel comfortable on the mound is my preparation that I did before and knowing each hitter and my strengths versus their weaknesses and all that. So when, for instance, last year we're facing the Phillies and I believe, um, um, oh man, I wish I could remember. But a guy that – oh, dude, I can't think of his name. I apologize.

But a guy that's been a multi-year big leaguer gets taken out of the game, and they call up a kid from AAA, and we have no information on him. And this is like right before the game, and I'm like super flustered because I'd rather have a solid big leaguer in there, but I know exactly how to attack them and what his holes are versus a kid that I have no idea where to go, you know, because I throw four pitches and I don't want to be on the mound stuck between two of them. That's the worst feeling. So yeah, when a guy like Max Moroff, I'm not sure how you say it, comes up to the plate with limited at-bats and we don't have much information on them i've i feel at a disadvantage and most pitchers probably wouldn't tell you that and probably shouldn't tell you that because you want to say hitting is really hard and i always had the advantage but i would much rather face someone that i know

exactly what i'm doing versus a whether it's a kid from the minor leagues or who, whoever that, um, I don't have a clear cut plan. And in this case, Rukani Cut comes out and there's a long meeting on the mound with him, with the whole infield goes on for a while. I don't know if you know the specifics of what was said, but what would typically be said in a situation like this? And what would you want to be said? What do you want to know if you don't know anything about this guy you're facing? Yeah, so good question. You know, it probably is a mixture of Honeycutt coming out and saying, you know, this is my

first safe situation I ever had. So I was definitely amped up for sure. And so he was just calling me down like, hey, giving you a little break. Let's get this guy right here kind of thing. And then it was probably something along the lines of you know hey we've we've this guy only has six seven at bats against right-handed hitters this is what I've seen I think that he likes the ball middle away he likes to hit the and I'm I have no idea but I'm assuming he was saying something along the lines of he likes the ball middle of the way he likes to he can really slap it the other way he's good contact hitter not a lot of swing and miss uh what do you

think in here first pitch kind of thing and I probably said what I ended up doing which is I want to get ahead with the curveball because for one I think he's going to take it to it's my best pitch if he swings at it I have a very good sense that he's probably going to hit it on the ground and then Honeycutt probably said all right. Let's get after him and head back to the dugout. You know, that's, that's typically how they go. They're, they're usually a mixture of like, Hey, calm me down. And Hey, what do you want? What do you want to do first pitch? So, so in, in the decision tree, whenever you're trying to decide what to throw other than the situation, which is the count is obviously a big factor in this and maybe the situation with runners on and so on. But you've got what you

feel is your strength. Generally, you've got what you feel you're most comfortable with in that moment, like what's working for you in that inning. And then you've got what the batter's strength is and what the scouting report tells you about that. What is kind of the hierarchy? Which do you check off first? What's the biggest factor and what's theouting report tells you about that. What is kind of the hierarchy? Which do you check off first? What's the biggest factor and what's the least big factor of those three to you? Well, that's a really good question. I would say the most important thing is what's feeling good that day, because that can change at bat to at bat, pitch to pitch sometimes. So what feels good in that exact moment? Two would be i oh man i think

two almost every pitcher would tell you his strengths but i'm going to tell you the hitters weaknesses and then three is my strengths and i think i think i'm different because my strength is essentially throwing four pitches in any count yeah and i think i think my curveball is probably my best pitch but my curveball is big and it's hard to control sometimes. And, and it's not just a guarantee that I'm gonna throw a quality down in the zone curve ball. Like that doesn't, that's not just a no doubter for me. So my biggest strength is not necessarily this like wipe out slider or 98 up in the zone or whatever, you know? So I've never really thought of myself as being like, my strength trumps your weakness.

More like I'm going to attack your weakness with an equal amount of strengths, if that makes sense. Yeah, so like if you had a 70-grade pitch that you leaned on, then it would be a different situation. But your strength is basically being able to adapt to the hitter's weakness. Yes, exactly. All right. So you throw, you get behind 1-0 on Mar you, uh, you throw, uh, you get behind one Oh on,

on Muroff and then you throw him a fastball in the strike zone and he swings at it and, and he makes contact. And I'm curious to know when you're throwing a pitch in the strike zone and the batter swings is every time that happens, do you have, does your brain release a little bit of fear chemical, like every single time that like, Oh no,, does your brain release a little bit of fear chemical? Like every single time that like, oh no, he could hit a home run. Yeah, probably so. You know, I don't think that ever goes away. It may depend a little bit on who you're facing. You know, like if I'm facing Billy Hamilton, I'm not, and he takes a good rip. There's, you know, very little fear that it's a home run, but nowadays really most every big leaguer can hit a homer anytime. So, yeah, I mean, a good rip.

You can tell, you know, whether he was on it or whether, you know, if it was hit hard enough. You know, normally right off the bat, you got a pretty good idea of where it's going and what kind of damage and how upset you're going to be afterwards. Like I said, the leverage in this situation was extremely high within the game. Like I said, the leverage in this situation was extremely high within the game. But in another way of looking at it, the Dodgers were like 20 games ahead of the second place team. And so in that sense, the leverage was sort of extremely low. And then in a third sense, which is the one I'm interested in, the Dodgers at that point were on pace to win 116 games, which is the all-time record for wins in a season. And to us out here who are kind of tracking stories, like we're tracking the narratives and figuring out what's newsworthy. And so that sort of thing is really like we notice every day whether a team is on pace to break a

record or not. And it's sort of kind of sort of seems like a big deal out here for you guys in August of that year, particularly before the kind of slump that we all that game feel really tense because you know that in order to be historically significant, you once again have no margin for error? Yeah, I'm going to let you down and just kind of say no. I don't remember it ever coming up one time. Even this year, we're on a pretty solid pace and it hasn't come up one time. I think that that year we were really good for a really long time, and I think that we just showed up to a baseball field and expected to win that baseball game every night just because the talent and just how good we felt as a team

and the talent we had in that locker room. But, no, I don't ever remember anyone saying, hey, we're on pace to chase the, what is it, the 2001 Mariners. You know, I don't think, I just don't think it ever came up, man. I don't think it was ever on our radar or something that we were actively cognizant of, even, you know, especially when we're on the field. I don't think it ever was, it definitely never crossed my mind. I hear your words, but it's a little suspicious that you had 2001 Mariners right on. Yeah, that's true.

Last thing about that game for me, during the mound conference with Honeycutt and the infielders, Yasiel Puig ran in and was talking to Adrian Gonzalez about positioning, it seemed like. And I don't know whether that affected Puig's ability to be in a position to catch that ball, whether that affected Puig's ability to be in a position to catch that ball, which had an expected batting average of 120. So that ball is not typically a hit. But do you pay attention to positioning? Do you play any part in positioning?

Do you notice if someone is playing in a place where you think they shouldn't be playing and that gets in your head? So that's the analytic side of the Dodgers, right? I mean, we're kind of cutting edge and leading the way and that kind of stuff. We have an entire Ivy League educated group of men that put together our defensive positioning. They work their tail off, and we have cards for every pitcher that says where you're supposed to position each player and even in different counts. And they have these cards either in their hat or their back pocket.

And I am in no way in charge of telling anyone where to play. That is a mixture of our front office and our coaching staff. And I believe in the shift. I know there's a couple times where it's hurt me, but it's definitely helped me way more times than it hasn't. And I believe that if a guy is positioned in a spot that seems abnormal, it's for a very specific reason. So I've definitely come to really trust our coaches and our front office and the way that they put together those defensive positions. I don't know in a million years why Yasiel Puig would have ran in and talk to Adrian Gonzalez. My guess is they were wondering where they were going to get a beer and a nice steak after the game more than anything. But, you know, because Adrian would have no impact on where

Yasiel Puig is playing. That would be from our coaching staff. So I don't know. But yeah, I believe in the shift and wholeheartedly on board with it. know, but yeah, I believe in the shift and wholeheartedly on board with it. All right. Last thing on this one. I assume this does not count as even though I said the thing about the leverage, I assume this is not what you remember is like the biggest, most stressful moment of your career or anything like that. But in general, is it do you find it any harder to pitch in an extremely high leverage moment

at this point in your career? Or have you been there so many times you've you know know, you've been through, um, you know, tough jams, you've been in the world series, you've been in all these different roles is, is it just kind of noise to you at this point? I think it's somewhere in the middle. You know, I still haven't pitched out of the bullpen a ton, especially in leverage situations. You know, a lot of my action out of the bullpen has been multi-innings. A lot of times it's even like mop-up duty kind of stuff. You know, I've never really been like the eighth inning guy for the Dodgers. So, you know, to come in in a 6-5 game to get a true save, yeah, that'll get your heart racing like crazy. And I think, you know, one

thing is, yeah, the more you do it, the more you can step back, take a deep breath, and go about it as if it's an ordinary outing. Those high leverage situations are always just a little bit different. I came in the other day at home against the Cubs in a tied ball game in the eighth. First time in a while that I pitched in a serious leverage situation because I was a starter most of last year and early this year. And, and, uh, yeah, you get there and you kind of like have like an internal smile of, of how your body's feeling. Cause it's really cool. And you're like, man, I haven't felt like this in a while because it is significantly more, um, uh, I don't want to say nerve wracking, but it's just like your heart beats higher. You're, you're a little bit more anxious when you're warming up in the bullpen. It's got like a

little bit of a different feel to it. You know, so it is different. I wish I could, you know, probably specify more for you. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely everything's just like a little bit more heightened. All right. Well, we're getting pretty long on time. So I think we'll just do one more fairly quickly and then we'll call it a day. So in April 2017, you were facing John Jay.

It was a one nothing game. There were two outs. You were leading one nothing. And so John Jay comes up and he battles you for 11 pitches, which I'm curious to know. Well, I'm curious to know a few things about that. One is, do you believe the conventional wisdom that the deeper into a count like that, the more it advantages the hitter because he's seen everything? Or do you feel given what you have, which is a fairly broad repertoire and a lot of pitches that you'll throw in any count, that you have an advantage because you can keep on planting new things in his mind and potentially you only have to fool him once. Right. Well, I love that you brought up this at bat because I think about this at bat every now and then it still comes up because of how, you know, just kind of crazy it was. But I think a mixture of both of what you just said. So one is the longer the at bat goes, I do believe the hitter has the advantage, no doubt. Even if you're like me and you throw four pitches and they all kind of vary in speed,

it's just the idea that he's now timed up your mechanics. He has seen your whole arsenal for the most part, and to me, he has the advantage. But in this specific at-bat, I really didn't show him anything but fastballs and cutters. I threw one curveball in there that he fouled off, but I just basically hammered him with fastballs and cutters on the inner part of the plate. And then so then by the time we get to the 11th pitch, I feel like I have the advantage because I haven't shown him basically three of my other pitches. So kind of a broad answer to your question. But typically, I think the hitter has the advantage the longer the at-bat goes.

Change-up's not one of your primary pitches, but when you, I mean, you do have one, you do throw one, and this was a left-handed batter, it would have made a little bit of sense. I wondered, looking at this, whether when you are a reliever, if you feel like the change-up basically just goes in your pocket and doesn't come out, uh, or if you still feel like it's a weapon when you need it in a situation like this, I mean, if you're not throwing it much, I guess what I'm saying is, is it then hard to access that access that pitch when you, uh, when you need it, do you feel like it's just not an option for the, for that year? Especially the change up, the change up is such a fleeting pitch man like you can have it for a bad and then lose it for a month like it is the worst pitch to to just be

able to grip and rip and expect it to go where you want I mean some people have that feel and I think that's incredible but I've never had that with the change up it's it's been very fleeting for me so basically all of 2017 it was almost a non-factor because I spent pretty much that whole year in the bullpen and threw very little change-ups so yeah especially in a situation like this I mean we got a one-run game at Wrigley Field a man on second base in scoring position I'm not going to go to my fourth best option even if it's that hitter's weakness which I think John Jay actually probably hits change-up pretty well because he's a contact guy and stays back on pitch as well. Even if it's a weakness of his, I'm not going to go to my fourth best pitch in a situation like that.

Why do you think about that matchup a lot? Just because it was cool. It was at Wrigley Field. It was an 11 pitch at bat. This was one of really the first leveraged situations that I ever pitched in out of the bullpen because that was early on in my career and extremely early on in my bullpen career. And, dude, just pitching in Wrigley Field never gets old. You know, I think that place is as cool as it gets, and it ended up working in my favor, which makes it, you know, fun to look back on. So I'm watching, I think this

is, I'm watching it right now. This is the, uh, there it is the 11th pitch of the at bat. You throw him a cutter on the outside corner air quotes around on the outside corner. So in that situation, uh, John Jay's obviously super pissed because he got rung up. Would you have been super pissed if, uh, super pissed if he'd gotten the call? Probably in real time, yeah, because I probably thought it was a strike, you know, and then I would have gone to look at it and seen that it was a ball and been more understanding because it was probably a ball off the plate. And yeah, you know, what's cool about that at bat and how it worked out is just that I did so much to him

on the inner part of the plate. You know, everything is kind of that at bat and how it worked out is just that I did so much to him on the inner part of the plate. You know, everything is kind of fastballs in, cutters in. And then I really don't throw many backdoor cutters. Even like to this day, I throw very few arm side cutters. And, you know, Yaz put it down and I was like, yeah, I'll do it. You know, because really, that probably wasn't going through my head. I was probably just going to keep doing the same thing. Just cutters up and in fastballs up and in and just hope he put it on the ground, you know, on the second base side of the field. And yes, puts down backdoor cut. And I'm like, heck, yeah, let's give it a go, you know, because there's no way he was looking out over and, you know, basically make it competitive and competitive enough where the umpire rings him up. And, you know, John Jay never even, I don't think, thought about swinging at that pitch. So I have one more question I want to ask before we let you

go and don't want to destroy your voice and ruin your own podcasting career. But there was one more at bat that we were going to ask you about that we won't go through the whole thing. It's only two pitches anyway, but this was the 2017 World Series, Game 5. You were facing Alex Bregman with, you were down three runs at that point in the eighth inning with one out and a man on first, and I just want to know, you ended up getting a double play to get out of the inning, and so that's a big pitch. That's a big result. I wonder whether looking at it again, as maybe you did, it was a good pitch because, you know, you throw the first pitch, you start him off with a fastball away and he fouls it off. And then you come back with another one that if you just look at the

location, it's just kind of dead center, basically. And, you know, you end up getting the ground ball and you get the double play, you get out of it. Is that a pitch where you're thinking, I got away with one, or are you just kind of thinking, I set him up for this, or it moved in a certain way that even though it ended up in the middle here, it wasn't that great a pitch to hit? I'm just looking to see if you hit your spot. I guess it was set up sort of high and inside and it ended up drifting out over the plate, but you got the result you wanted. Yeah. That's one where you definitely feel like you got away with one, got a little, got a little lucky. Uh, yeah, you know,

so I did the fastball away and he fouled it off a little bit late. So the thought was go up and in, he's a little bit late, you know, so if you go up and in, he's not going to be, he's going to be even later for that one, theoretically, right? So yeah, I missed my spot, basically missed right down the middle, like you said, and he basically hits a hard one hopper right to third base, and I get a double play. So that's one where I watched it, and I was like, yeah, I got away with one there. Okay, yeah, which I guess probably happens more often than and people think i think whenever a bad result happens people think oh pitcher made a mistake and whenever the good result happens you think pitcher made his pitch but yeah that's not the case sometimes the hitter hits a really good pitch sometimes

they miss a bad pitch and that that just happens sometimes right yeah man and that's why hitting so hard and that's why uh that's why sometimes when you give up a hit on a really good pitch, you're like, man, how the heck does that happen? You know, so, yeah, hitting hitting baseball is got to be the hardest thing in sports, in my opinion. All right. Well, this was a real pleasure to talk to you. It's always great to pick a player's brain about this sort of nitty gritty stuff, especially someone who thinks about the game and approaches the game the way that you do. nitty-gritty stuff, especially someone who thinks about the game and approaches the game the way that you do. And that is the kind of perspective that you can get on every episode of Ross Stripling's podcast, The Big Swing. We probably should have just spent this time asking you for stock tips or something. It might have benefited us more in the long term. But do you give any investment advice on The Big Swing, or do you stick to sports?

Well, we want to do an investment a finance episode we just haven't had the chance yet uh i can't give specific advice that's uh that's pretty illegal right and could get me in a lot of trouble but we can certainly talk about uh you know certain things without me actually saying like you know go buy stock xyz investment strategies the way that we've been talking about pitching strategies so you you can find Ross on Twitter also at Ross Stripling, and you can see him in the starting rotation where he recently replaced the injured Rich Hill. Unfortunate that you had to be replacing Rich Hill, but good that you get to be in perhaps the best starting rotation in baseball. So check out the big swing, everyone subscribe. You can hear Ross very often on there. And this was great.

Thank you so much for being so generous with your time. Yeah, this was a blast, guys. I really enjoyed it. It's cool to go through at bats like these. I would never do it without you guys bringing it up. So I had a lot of fun. All right. Thanks, Ross.

All right. That will do it for today. Hope you enjoyed listening to Ross as much as we did. I think we passed the official halfway point of the regular season schedule on Friday. So thanks for sticking with us through the first half of the season. And we hope you will accompany us for the rest as well as the winter afterward. You can go get my book, The MVP Machine, How Baseball's New Nonconformists Are Using Data to Build Better Players. If you read it, you'll find out how players like Ross are making themselves better by applying information.

That transformation he talked about where Andrew Friedman walked him through throwing high fastballs, that's something that's happening all across the league. Usually not with the president of baseball operations interceding directly, but that's one way to do it. The Dodgers are definitely one of the teams at the forefront of that player development revolution that we chronicle in the book. So if you like what Travis Satchick and I wrote, please leave us a positive review on Amazon and Goodreads. You can also support this podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectivelywild. The following five listeners have already pledged their support.

Davian Masterson, Gregory Goldstone, Chad Post, Charles Engblom, and Dustin McDonald. Thanks to all of you. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectively wild. And you can rate and review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on iTunes and other podcast platforms. Keep your questions for me and Meg and Sam coming via email at podcast at fangraphs.com. Or if you're a Patreon supporter by messaging us through the Patreon messaging system.

Thanks to Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance. I will actually be bringing you a bonus episode that I will be publishing right after I publish this one. I wanted to bring you some coverage of the London series, so I'll be talking to a couple people who were there. Look for that in your feeds. Now we've got you covered. It's a holiday week, fewer work days, but more podcasts.

Happy Canada Day, happy Bobby Bonilla Day, and we will be back to talk to you very soon. It's all you need Don't let it get me down I'm running back to you Cause it's a hard way in my head It's a hard way in my head It's a hard wind in my head. It's a hollow wind in my head.