Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 1549: The Burdens of Being Black in Baseball

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

Ben Lindbergh talks to Braves outfield prospect Trey Harris about how he’s processed the murder of George Floyd and learned from the ongoing protests, how race and racism have affected his life and career, the additional barriers black players face, how he’s tried to talk to teammates, coaches, and friends about systemic racism and recent […]

Hello and Used to be dead in these things you've learned Hello and welcome to episode 1549 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of The Ringer, flying solo today. Nice to talk to you again. As you may know, we pressed pause on the podcast last week. It just didn't feel right for us to go about banter as usual. We wanted to take a step back, let other people talk, listen and learn, give our listeners more time to listen and learn. And we're grateful to everyone who understood that decision.

And for our return, we didn't want to go straight to Mike Trout hypotheticals. There will be a time for that again. But we thought it was important to acknowledge and examine everything that's gone on over the past couple weeks, not just in baseball, but in the world at large. And I thought a good guest to help us do that would be the man I'm talking to today, Trey Harris. Now, if you've read The MVP Machine, my book about player development from last year, you may remember Trey. He was the star of Chapter 11, the chapter about college baseball. I really enjoyed talking to him at the time, more so about his history as a player than his history as a person outside of the sport. And Trey has a really great story.

In his first couple of seasons of college ball at the University of Missouri, he really struggled. He slugged about.330. He hit five home runs combined in those two seasons. His on-base was about.300, and in his sophomore season, he batted 213. That's not going to cut it for a corner outfielder. And at that point, he wasn't really a prospect at all. But while he was at Mizzou, the school acquired a trackman system, and he really devoted himself to it. He remade his swing. He went from more of a groundball-oriented approach to more of a flyball-oriented approach, started learning about launch angle and exit velocity, used the system to refine his plate discipline and figure out which pitches to swing at, which pitches to let go, and it made a night and day difference. He had an 8.97 OPS as a junior

and a 9.30 OPS as a senior. He hit 23 home runs in those two seasons combined, batted 3.16 in his senior year with an OPP over 400. Pretty humbly, he told me he credited the turnaround 30% to talent and 70% to trackman. That didn't make him a big prospect, but it did bring him to the attention of scouts. Trey is from Georgia, from an Atlanta suburb. He grew up a Braves fan, and it was the Braves who drafted him in the 32nd round of the 2018 amateur draft. And he's kept hitting since then. He did well in his pro debut in 2018, and then last season, he started in A-ball, climbed all the way up through

high A through double A, finished the year at the Arizona Fall League, and hit every step of the way. And last September, he was named the hitter of the year in the Braves organization. And he is 24 now, but he's made himself a prospect. He's ranked number 21 on the Baseball America Braves organization. And he is 24 now, but he's made himself a prospect. He's ranked number 21 on the Baseball America Braves list this year. He's 24th on the FranGraphs list, where Eric Longenhagen called him a stocky stick of right-handed hitting dynamite. So that's the baseball side of his story, and it's a great story, but there's more to his story than that. And Trey has been very outspoken on Twitter, reacting to the murders of George Floyd and others, the protests, the police brutality, the responses from the sports world. And because he's black, because he's lived a lot of the things that some people have maybe belatedly learned in the last couple weeks, he can speak to that from personal experience in a way that we can't.

And frankly, that we haven't talked enough about on this show or had people on to talk about. I asked him if he would want to share some of that here, and he said he would. And we are lucky and happy to have him. So we're going to get into race and racism inside baseball, outside of baseball, conversations he's had and hasn't had with his teammates, things that people can do to educate themselves and to learn. And we're also going to get into all of the uncertainty about the season, about his career, about what will happen if he can't play this year, what that might mean for his development,

what it means for the friends and former teammates of his who have lost their jobs recently, what he thinks about the MLB negotiations from the perspective of a minor leaguer who was briefly in big league camp this year. So it's a wide ranging and enlightening conversation and we can kick it off now. All right, so I am joined now by Trey. Hey, Trey, how's it going? Good, how are you? Doing all right. So last time we talked a couple of years ago, it was mostly about TrackMan and launch angles and plate discipline, and maybe we'll touch on those things today too, but before we do, I want to ask you how you're handling everything else that's happening

both in the baseball world and the world beyond baseball because over the past couple weeks it's been hard for me to muster much interest in sports even with the MLB negotiations going on and all the suspense about the season and I can't imagine how you're feeling because you have much more riding on the season starting than I do but but you're not just a ball player. You're also a black man from the same state where Ahmaud Arbery, who was almost the same age as you are, was killed recently. And I just wonder where most of your mental energy is directed right now. Definitely from the hours of nine to one and about seven to 10 every night. I try to just focus on doing me like I play video games and stuff.

But I just think I've just honestly taken this time to educate myself. I think that I've known all these things, you know, happening in the world around me. I'm black. I deal with some different things. But educating myself on the facts, like I learned about Black Wall Street two weeks ago, and that was something that was very new to me. I didn't know that we had our own black community and about Black Wall Street two weeks ago, and that was something that was very

new to me. I didn't know that we had our own Black community and a Black Wall Street, and it was burned down. And those are things that I did not know, and I need to learn as a Black man. I need to know my history. So before I go out and speak like I've been doing, I took the time to try to learn all the little things. So if any question is presented, I feel like I can answer now. Yeah, things like that don't even get taught in schools. You know, it's not even part of the curriculum. I've seen a lot of people talking about that. So I didn't know about that growing up.

It wasn't something that I ever remember learning about. And we had a great article at The Ringer, the website I write for, by Victor Lucerson, who wrote a whole article about it. And he's working on a book about it now. And then it was on the first episode of Watchmen, the HBO show. But it was just not something I was taught. And that's a shame. I think that's what I think.

That's where we kind of have to start. Just like educate ourselves, acknowledge that we don't know. Right. Like, it's OK to not know. I think in our society, we've been taught that we need to know everything, act like we know everything with the utmost confidence, right? But in this instance, in any instance, if you're willing to learn, you can always grow. You can always change your mind. You can always be different than what you thought you were going to be. And I think that's the whole goal. So how conscious of race and racism were you growing up? And I guess how much more conscious

have you become after the fact of the role that it may have been playing without you even realizing it at the time? I'm blessed enough to have a dad who was born in Birmingham, Alabama and integrated to schools. My mom, my grandfather was the first black mayor of her town. So my parents had just been engulfed in the, you know, the entire idea of racism. So I was able to learn through stories and different ways of life and different instances that happened to me that they related back to them. So I've always been conscious. Right. But I think the difference now is that I'm able to really speak about it because before it was like forbidden territory. Like a lot of people thought racism was dead or wasn't real or didn't affect them.

So I felt like we had to be quiet. But I think now what you're seeing is that you're seeing everything out in the open, front and center. And that's what's been hard to digest, even for me, is that how up front and center it is. And sometimes you've got to check yourself like, man, this really happened. This is actually awful. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is actually awful. Like, Black Wall Street being burned down was actually awful. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is actually awful. Like, Black Wall Street being burned down was actually terrible.

Like, no one deserves, color or not color, deserves to have their entire businesses burned down for no reason at all, right? You know, the looting and everything is different than what that was, right? So, like, it's just different things that we go through that we have to keep learning and growing. But I learned firsthand through my parents. They were just both very influential in teaching me all the little things about how this world kind of works at the time. But I think it's changing now. You mentioned in another interview that your college coach, Dylan Lawson, called you and asked you to tell him some of the things you've had to go through that he probably hasn't had to go through. And I know just, you know, the conversation about the police is one of those things.

And I can't recall my parents ever talking to me about the police. But if they did, it was probably to say, hey, these are the people who help you or protect you, you know. But I'm sure that that conversation went very differently for you. Yeah. And I think that was one of the bigger kickers for a lot of my counterparts who were trying to figure out where they stood, right? They were trying to understand and grow.

Like, Trey, what do you feel? I was like, at 13, a lot of people have the birds in the bees talk, right? I had the police talk. Yes. I had to talk on, like, how to approach the police, how to go about the police, how to say the right things. Where do I not go?

Do I wear, like like my mom forever i never was allowed to wear a hood i was never allowed to wear a do-rag to take care of my own hair and i was never allowed to do those things in public just like i had to watch what kind of hairstyle i had i had to watch my earrings never had earrings until i got them for like two months and didn't like them but never had earrings for that reason. Because you have to do everything right in the black culture is what it feels like, right? It feels like you have to watch and do what you're exactly told or you have a chance to get in some big trouble, which is crazy to think of because people are, you know, getting incarcerated and losing their life for a lot less than what they definitely, definitely should be. incarcerated and losing their life for a lot less than what they definitely definitely should be so i think that's the biggest thing is that like growing up i knew these things right i didn't

even know that i knew them right like i didn't know and truly understand why i was scared of police all the time because like it never really happened to me to where i felt like they were about to kill me right i? I've been threatened. I've been guys with attitudes, all that stuff. That has happened to me multiple times. I was pulled over to Mississippi as a Mississippi Brave for the tint on my windows. And like I said, my dad is aware. He would never put me in a situation

to where I would need to, you know, like have to defend myself over something. So I knew it was false. And as soon as they found out I was a Mississippi Brave, he left me alone. But think about that. Like the state that we play in still has the Confederate flag in their state flag. So every game when I'm standing there for the Pledge of Allegiance, I'm also reminded of how much these people truly don't like me at all, right?

Like how tough is that every day as a battle it's crazy or in in mississippi where you play if you go left that's where all the black people live if you go right that's where all the white people live like that's crazy to think of that we still have that problem and those are things that like i'm just used to right like i'm just used to like seeing confederate flags and seeing division within races all the time, and that should not be the issue. That should not be who we are as a country. Yeah. I heard you talk about your school growing up and how the graduation rate at your school was much different from a school that was, I guess, predominantly white five minutes away.

Yes. Yeah. It's crazy to think of that. My school was seen as the athletic school. Like you went there, you wanted to play sports, right? But if you went to Hillgrove, you wanted to be, you wanted to be smart and educated. That's where all the smarter kids went. Their graduation rate was nine out of 10. And our graduation rate was three out of 10. Our college readiness was two out of 10. Their college readiness is eight out of 10, right? So like from jump, right, we have a majority black school and a majority white school, right? So we're five minutes apart, but yet when one of us goes to college, we're not prepared at all because they're just happy to graduate us. And one set of students have already been set up for success,

right? And I don't necessarily think that should be a total race problem. It's an education system issue that we have, but it seems to be predominantly in our black communities, right? Like if you go to like, I've never, to be honest with you, I've never ever heard of a black school that's seen as a smart school, right? Every smart school I've ever heard of, like, oh, let's go to that school. That's the white school. They really smart over there. Like, what? How is that a thing? Why is that a thing? You know what I'm saying? Why are we so divided within our school systems? And I wonder why we're so divided outside of our school systems, right? Like, it seems like that we forgot how these correlations came about. And that's where I think we have to grow. It's because it's not just,

this white guy doesn't think I deserve to be black. It's because it's not just this white guy doesn't think I deserve to be black. It's just that he's been, he's just seen over and over again that he's better, right? Like, all right, I went to a better school than him. So I go to a better college than him. So I got to be better than him because I'm smarter than him because I went to better schooling than he did. And that's where the cycle continues. It's just like when you, if someone plays on a better team all the time, they're going to think that they're better than the guys on the worst team. Right. So like, that's just how it works. So that's how we, we've kind of let this cycle go through. But I honestly think people are challenging the cycle and willing to learn.

And we're having conversations. Like, I don't think I've ever had interviews or anything where I was able to talk about some of the issues going on in my community. Yeah, I want to ask you about that in a minute. I was going to ask, these are all systemic problems that affect all areas of society and affect everyone within baseball, obviously, but I wonder whether you see any similar systemic problems in baseball specifically. I mean, you hear players like Adam Jones talking about the slurs that they've heard from the stands, and maybe that's the most obvious or hurtful example, but I'm sure there are many other subtle things that you might not even recognize as racism or just might not even be as noticeable or that people might not be aware of

that are just kind of part of your common experience? Yeah. So I would say that I'm easily, easily not the best center or athlete that I ever played with. But I was the one that was blessed with two parents who had enough money to make sure that I had the opportunity, right? Yeah. So therefore, I think that baseball is missing out on so many great athletes and great players and the diversity because it costs $600 for a glove. Yeah. Or $500.

Let's say $500 for a glove, $300 for a bat. Oh, you want to play travel ball and actually get seen by college because colleges really don't go about like they do in football and other sports. Or you want to go to college where you got to play travel ball. That's going to be $1,200 a tournament before traveling, before hotels, and before paying for food and Gatorades, right? So that's a problem. We've already X'd out a good amount of our population simply because it costs so much to play a game that essentially started with a stick and a ball.

Like, that's it, right? Like, the base of baseball is that you could get four random things make a diamond get a stick and a ball and you could play anywhere right but yet we've made it this travel ball thing like my buddy went to go see a perfect game thing today and it cost ten dollars for people to go see their own child play baseball yeah what like what that's just like the base of it right you know like we have to find a way to bridge the gap because you can go like think about it when when kids sign up for football you just need that one 20 25 dollar pair of cleats if you can get it ross they give you the pads you

don't need anything but the pads and a helmet and you can play because you got cleats on you really don't even need cleats i I've seen kids with no cleats. So that's what's going to get kids to come back out, right? It costs $85 to sign up. They give you the pads, and they also give you – they also – all you need from there is cleats, right? That's the only thing your mom has to provide, AAU. All you need is the basketball shoes.

And even if you wanted a basketball, you could get it. But if you don't, you really don't need it to play basketball. Somebody's going to have a basketball shoes and even if you wanted a basketball you could get it but if you don't you really don't need it to play basketball somebody's gonna have a basketball you know so we've already missed out because we just not even allowing kids to play because they can't afford it right like every kid grew up throwing a baseball first or throwing a circular ball first always any play like any kid toy any kid ball most of them start at circular balls we are touching kids early and then we're losing them in the middle because we don't we're we're xing them out financially so i think that is one thing that i don't know if baseball has done that on purpose but there's something that we could do about that right like baseball has

tried but they're not really doing it wholeheartedly. Like, okay, we're cool with what we got right now, so let's not push it. And I think that's the issue, right? Like we're X-ing kids out simply because they can't afford it, not because of their ability. Yeah, yeah. I know MLB has paid a little more attention to that. I mean, not just with programs like RBI, but like the Dream Series or funding some free alternatives to those pay showcases that just kind of price people out. But

I think the playing field is still pretty far from level there. And I know that Andrew McCutcheon wrote a good piece for the Players' Tribune about that a couple of years ago. But that's something that I've thought about too in writing The MVP Machine because, you know, I'm writing about all this coaching and all this technology and you had some access to that at Mizzou. And in some ways, maybe that can help because, you know, if you have the skill and the talent, it'll get recognized by these devices that aren't going to discriminate necessarily, but you might not have access to those things. If you come up in a certain place, if you can't afford coaching, if your school

doesn't have a track man, whatever it is, you're falling behind even before you get into pro ball. And then even on a college level, let's think about college baseball. It's hard to get full rides. Kids aren't getting full rides anymore, or you can get a full ride to a D2. My mom ain't got no money. My dad ain't got no money. So therefore I got to go do what I can to get out, right. To go make myself better. So like I'm all for Title IX equal involvement, but there's got to be a way that we can get more kids going to college other than the two ways that I know most black kids go. Yeah. And in baseball, of course, you know, you're going to have to ride the buses in the minors for years, even if you're good, even if you're a prospect, it's going to take

a while for you to start making some money. And that's an obstacle. So that's another thing that might point people towards other sports. For sure. So like, I would say like, I don't know if i could still be trey harris who i am today if i didn't have two parents that could help me with car insurance you know i'm saying like what if i did like i have student loans and i have car insurance and i would lose every check i had every month if i had to take care of those two things so therefore those kids are like yo i can't afford to play this game anymore. So therefore, they stop playing. Like, how crazy is that? Yeah. And I know that you've mentioned to me that you looked up to guys like Josh Harrison,

and you kind of emulated him or modeled yourself on him a little bit. And to have those examples and role models and that representation is pretty important, but the percentage of players who are black in MLB has been declining for years. And maybe there are a lot of reasons for that. It's not just the financial reasons, but what kind of impact does that have? I mean, when you were coming up as a kid, getting into baseball, was that the cool sport to play was there pressure to do other things instead yeah i think so like for me in like our community we do glorify football and basketball more and i feel like that also gets lost too like who what kid wants to go play baseball in front of just their mom and dad like in high school right like we have to make baseball more cool. That's why I'm all about the bat flipping

and the pitcher can stare me down, like talk trash, miking up guys. Cause we got to make it more appealing because it's compared to those other sports, like LeBron dunking and Freddie Freeman hitting a home run. Do not do the same to me. Freddie's way cooler, but you're not trying to get the kid who loves baseball. You're trying to get the kid who's on the fence. You're trying to figure out what he really loves. in the league and you know granted there are a ton of international players who are making up more and more of the league by the year but i think there's still kind of a resistance to that and and the old guard still looks down on that sometimes yeah that's for sure true and i think mlb does good like it's just i would be just candid i just think it's it's bullcrap that we have so many dominican academies and we don't have them here right like there is some and it's it's bullcrap that we have so many dominican academies and we don't have them here

right like there is some and it's cool but it's never publicized like everyone knows about these dominican academies where these kids live here eat there you know get their schooling there get taught english like why is that option not allowed for any kid right like we can base it in the inner city but if a kid needs it and is financially needing to have an outlet like baseball and be able to get their schooling and be able to grow as a man why we're why is that not an option for us but we can go do it in every other country right like that's where i think we could do better like we have to open these academies for kids who parents can't afford it and the let's say the Braves take in

15 kids a year to live at this academy to start off with that's 15 lives we've made better who can also touch 15 more lives and we can keep growing from there so I think that's where I think my problem with the MLB is is that we have all these Dominican academies that produce great players and that's why we have them but like we're Dominican academies that produce great players, and that's why we have them. But we're also missing a lot of great players right here in the inner cities that want to play this game too. And there are problems with the way the sport is covered too. And you retweeted a thread the other day by the writer June Lee about how if baseball wants to change, there needs to be a change in the people covering the game. And a lot of those people look like me. There's just,

there's no way around that. And I'm sure I'm guilty of not telling certain stories, not because I'm trying not to, but maybe I just don't realize that the story is there. I'm not talking to the right person. And so I wonder just as a player, whether that's something you worry about, how you're portrayed by writers who might not have the same background, or whether you'll get the same attention, or whether you think that's something that other players worry about too. I think that most players worry about access, right? Like MLB, like governs, like I heard something, I might say it wrong. So like, if you create a fan page for a player right like so

scratch that so there's a guy on twitter who every time the cubs hit a home run he retweeted it and posted it on his page but the mlb told him to take it down and his account was suspended because he didn't have access to those videos in what other sport do you have to pay for access for a highlight right yeah what other sport like what are we doing we're making everybody pay to see everybody like mike trout isn't seen yes he lives in la but i watch oregon football every time because it's on national television there's no excuse why we don't have access more to these players like that's why their social media feeds are so important to a lot of us because you don't get access more to these players like that's why their social media feeds are so important to a lot of us because you don't get this content anywhere else nfl everywhere else it seems like

you can interview these coaches these players right when the game is happening or at halftime or at the end of the game but like we just go about our business way different and we're missing people because they have to pay to see us like so like something to think about like MILB right you have to pay to watch minor league baseball games right yeah um why why do you have to pay to watch me as a 18 or 22 year old kid trying to grind through it why do you have to pay ten dollars a month to see that because it's obviously not helping you boost revenue because minor league baseball doesn't bring in revenue for everyone. So that's not why we do it. So why are we restricting people to see great baseball players? I want to ask about some of the conversations you've had with teammates or

friends about these things. And Joey Votto wrote a newspaper op-ed this week about how when a teammate first shared the George Floyd video with him, at first he kind of dismissed it or tried to rationalize it. And now he really regrets that. And, you know, the past couple of weeks have kind of opened his eyes and some people have praised him for owning up to that. But others have said, well, you know, isn't it a little late to be learning that at this point also? And I just wonder how common that is, how often you've encountered that kind of reaction from teammates if you've really brought it up to them at all. So I've honestly been challenging my teammates left and right to at least educate themselves.

And then once they come up with their own opinion, it's up to me to make a decision on how I view what they view, right? So that's on me. But I would say that the, most of the conversations that I've had have been very enlightening. Guys have been really willing to listen and open and like, yeah, they have questions, but a lot of the time it's about questions that they truly don't understand. Like the recent tweet about Los Angeles police department abolishing the police department. So the word abolish makes it seem like there's going to be no more police, but yet they're trying to use ways to, you know, incorporate social workers, psychologists into the home.

So if you have a domestic violence, they bring the social worker and the police. If you have, you know, a dispute, they bring the police and someone there too, because if we all can read mental cues and facial cues, we can also grow together you know and I think that's what we have to do but my teammates for the most part for about 99 percent of them have been very open and willing to listen do they agree with everything no and I don't expect

them to do because some of the things that I believe in are just simply from the experiences that I've had and they've never had them. So I understand if they can't even get their head around it. Yeah. Yeah. So I've noticed, I would say the big thing is that the people who are struggling the most are the ones who like have the most black influence in their lives. Like they have the most black friends. Like they don't view me any differently. They don't care. They never saw it it they never been around it so to them it's like this is really happening like my best friend is black and we see each other for who we are why is it still going on right now like that is what i've been coming across more of like trey like you know you're my dog man you know i love you and everything like is this really going

on like talk to me and they're more like bro bro, what? Like people really think like that. So like, that's what I've been catching more of is like the whole idea. Like, I was not informed on how bad it really was. Yeah. And you look at where baseball players are from and what their backgrounds are. And it seems pretty safe to say that there are probably a lot of people in clubhouses who support Donald Trump and have, you know, not only very different beliefs from you, but beliefs that might be offensive to you. And maybe it's out of ignorance, maybe not. But if those players are your teammates, you have to live with them and travel with them and be in close proximity to them all the time. It's not like, you know, your typical co-workers where you go to the office and then you go your separate ways, especially in the minors. I mean, you're on the bus, you know,

all day and all night with these people. So there must be a tendency to say, you know, I don't want to make this an issue. We just won't talk about race or religion or politics because if we have disagreements, it's going to affect the team and we're going to have to be around each other all the time. But at the same time, like at moments like this, it seems too important not to bring it up. So how do you handle that? So anyone who knows me knows that I'm the one who will say these combos, right? Like I don't care, right? Most people, you are 100% right.

I'm the one that just i'm just some people thought i was angry so like i'll never forget having a combo with a couple of my teammates within um within the cage and i'm bringing up points they're like bro what are you talking about like no it's not like that it's not like that and then i'm getting calls from these same guys like now i see what you were saying so i think what it is is your right? You can't be emotional in your delivery. You have to be calm, cool, collected so that people listen. It's just like any time a coach yells, you're like, bro, shut up. Like, stop yelling at me. Just talk to me like a person. And that's what we have to do. Talk to each other like people. Don't look, just because he doesn't know doesn't mean he's dumb. Just because he doesn't see it your way doesn't mean he's an idiot or stupid. He just really might not know or understand. So keep continuing to feed him facts. Feed him articles from other people besides you. Feed him articles of people who think like he does so that he can still see that you value his opinion, right? We can't just damn every opinion that we have. We have to

be able to grow and learn and adjust. People can change. We saw it with Drew Brees. People can change. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a double burden on you, I guess, because you're the one who's facing these problems, but then also you're the one facing this responsibility, I guess, to educate people or to try to teach people. And it seems like, you know, you're the one with these problems. It shouldn't be on you to also tell people that these problems exist. Yeah, that's like the counselor telling somebody about domestic abuse while they're getting domestically abused, but they're dealing with it openly in front of everybody while they're trying to tell people to be better about it. It's just tough. Yeah. And yet, if you don't say something, then things might not change. So that's kind of how I look at it, right? If it really matters

that much to you, Trey, you're okay with being tired at the end of the night. If it truly matters that much to you, you have to be willing to have the tough conversation, have the tough days, and get through it. I've had nights where I'm sitting there like, man, this is awful. Like, I'm really trying to persuade people just to view me as they view themselves. Just give me the same opportunity that you've been given. That's all I ask. I don't need you to come down here and bow down to my feet and say that all black people are amazing. I just want you to say, Trey, I know this is messed up. What can I do? How can we grow? What are the next steps? That's what I want. So therefore, I have to take

it upon myself to keep learning and growing and teaching other people, like I said, with the facts, right? Like not with emotions, tell them something that they cannot refute. They can't say that Black Wall Street didn't happen. And they can't say, you know, these type of deals, you know, you can't say that there wasn't 400 years of slavery, and we've only been free for two years. Or that in 1964, the Jim Crow laws finally got abolished. So for parts of our generation, like the guy who killed Ahmaud Arbery was nine years old when he was finally told that black people were as equal as him. So those are the people that like we have to outnumber. I don't think we changed the mind of

our truly people who hate people for the color of their skin. We need to be able to outnumber them so that their voice is less. And I hate to say that, but that's just real. We need to be able to outnumber them so that their voice is less. And I hate to say that, but that's just real. We have to be able to bridge the gap between the people that are in the middle, right? Like we have to work together. The people on the far one way or the other are not looking to work together, but we have to do that to grow. And have you been encouraged or discouraged, I guess, by the number of people, you know, coaches, teammates, people in baseball, friends who've reached out to you over the past couple weeks to ask how you are, ask if there's anything they could do or ask how to learn about what's happening? So I've only had probably three coaches, four coaches reach out. My head coaches that I've played for ever haven't

reached out. And that hurts, right? I think those people hurt. The ones who said that they're, I see you as a son, or, you know, you're like a brother to me. Like, no, I obviously can't be because you haven't reached out to make sure that your brother or your son was okay. So those hurt. sure that your brother or your son was okay. So those hurt. My teammates have been amazing, amazing, like reached out from Mizzou to high school to pro ball to people I haven't even played with in 10 years. Like everybody has been flooding and just asking questions, which I'm a-okay to answer, but I have been disappointed in my coaches and I haven't said anything publicly yet because I was still giving them time but at some point I have to speak up because it is it hurts you know like I went to these schools or I went to this high school and gave everything I got

and I was never I was never even called to see how I was doing so that does that does hurt but you gotta like but then for those 10 guys that didn't call me, I've seen protests and protests, movement after movement, just talking about how they just want to fight for the black man. And that's dope to see that we're finally someone that people are willing to really speak up for, which is dope, which is really dope. Because for a while, I couldn't speak, they couldn't speak, we couldn't speak. So therefore, it's nice to be able to speak. Yeah, I was going to ask you about all the statements that we've seen in the sports world, some by players, some by teams, some by leagues. Now, some of those are the NFL maybe acting as if

Colin Kaepernick was never blackballed from the league for a peaceful protest. And so I just wonder, you know, do these statements seem hollow to you? Do you appreciate the words? Do they have to be backed up by actions to mean anything? So the words to me are a start, right? So I've always said that social media is the very start. That's how we start, right? They acknowledge the wrong, wrong right i can't fault them for when they saw he was kneeling that it was just not real but now that they see the error

of their ways we have to be able to see them back it up now all the players do it and then they all get upset still about it then that's on them right now we have to hold them accountable they are acting like it didn't happen which is a little little weird. Like, I don't really like that. Don't care for that. He definitely got blackballed. We all know he's very capable. And we know he's kneeling not for the flag, but for the racial injustice that we're dealing with. But we know how this money game works.

We know that if it's only one person doing something bad, they're going to get rid of that one person. But if we all do it together oh they can't ignore you right i think that's what's so powerful about these protests is that we are seeing that numbers are allowing us to grow right numbers are allowing us to speak our mind now right like before i'm telling you i couldn't have these convos or the braves would be calling me like hey trey i'm gonna need you to calm down but now they're like hey, Hey, Trey, speak your truth. Do it tastefully, right? Don't say nothing, just straight, strictly ignorant, but speak your truth. If this is your life and this is what you see, who are we to tell you that it's bad? But before it's just taboo in public, they could

believe everything I said back then, but it could have been taboo to let these issues be talked about. So now that we're able to talk about them, it's cool. It's really dope to see and I'm excited to keep growing. Yeah, it's, you know, I think so many people are so upset right now and speaking out that there's strength in numbers, as you said, and maybe George Floyd's murder and the way that it was documented was just so clear cut and so horrible that I don't think there's really an other side to that issue that anyone could even conceivably have. But in the past, as you said, there would be pressure on you maybe not to speak up. And it's not like these things weren't happening and haven't always been happening. It's just that right now there's a

bigger spotlight on it. And so I think people who normally wouldn't say something are saying something. But in the past, I would understand if you would have felt uneasy about saying something publicly because you're a minor leaguer, you weren't a top pick. And as hundreds of players who just lost their jobs learned, that's a pretty precarious position to be in. So is it just kind of a culture of not speaking up or is there explicit instruction like, hey, keep quiet, just go about your business? And has that changed? I think there's definitely was a culture of like, watch what you say, you know, definitely a culture. I was never once told like, Trey, don't speak up about civil rights. I was never told that. But you just kind of know, like, hey, bro, watch what you say to the media. Don't be saying nothing divisive. Don't say anything that would make people uncomfortable. We try to say the right thing our entire lives. Right. We've been told this our entire lives. Say the right thing. Do the right thing on Instagram, on Twitter.

Everything we do, we've always been told to do or say the right thing on Instagram, on Twitter, everything we do, we've always been told to do or say the right thing. And that's where we kind of lost our voices. But I think that's coming back. And it is changing because we're going to hold you accountable if you hold the people accountable for speaking up for their truth. Right. So like if I were to speak up and the Braves were like, not as dead, we just released Trey Harris, everybody and their mom was going to be in front of Truist Park. Like, hey, that is not right. Right. But I don't know if that would happen before. Maybe it would have because I play baseball, but I'm even talking on a grander scale like Walmart. If you work at Walmart, you can speak your truth now. If you work at McDonald's, you can speak your truth now. Like it doesn't matter where you are

and where you are in life. You are now able to speak your truth, which is amazing. like you and share your concerns. And so in baseball, there isn't really much of a recent history of people speaking up, of people kneeling, of people demonstrating. And now I guess that's changing this time. But in the past, you know, we've seen baseball be pretty quiet compared to other sports. Yes. Yes. So I totally agree. And I agree with him. It is tough. And when you look around and like, there's no one that looks like you, who do you talk to when you deal with these things? Right? And like, okay, so there's only one in me. And there's everyone else. If I say this, they can get rid of me right now. like in the Braves organization like I'm not saying this is a Braves problem I'm just saying that like baseball how it works there's 13 players that are black in our organization you don't know how excited we were that there was 13 13 we were jumping like wow bro we got a lot of young black kids in the org like this is dope credit to the, right? For taking that chance on a community that hasn't been always given those opportunities. That's amazing by the Braves. But I'm not that like I know there's organizations where there's one black kid, two black kids.

Last year, I think we had five. So like, think about it. You can get rid of us and replace us with 10 Dominicans for the same amount of money. So who am I to speak out when I'm really trying to make my entire dream come true? So I'm sure just emotionally there, you must be feeling anger and outrage, but is that mixed with hope, with pride in the response that we've seen? Or do you just think sort of cynically like, okay, everyone is up in arms about this for a couple weeks, but then maybe they'll just go back to their lives and move on like they have in the past? So I would say that it's like, I've never been more happier to be black ever than I have been these last couple weeks. One, because I feel like people are finally behind black people, right? Like forever, our music culture closed clothes has been influenced by black culture,

but to be seeing people who, you know, wear our shoes and wear what we do and do what we do and sing how we do to really stand behind us and acknowledge like, Hey bro, we took this culture from y'all a little bit, but we're willing to give all of it and more to make sure you get what you deserve is amazing. I am filled with hope because I do see the change. Like those cops got convicted. There's still a lot of unarmed black men whose cops were not convicted or weren't even jailed, right? Never even faced the court system. And, you know, those are the people that we are still trying to get behind bars. And I am angry and I am upset sometimes because, you know, there's still some people who are very close to me that I've lost friends.

Right. I've lost friends over my views. I've lost people who are following me right away because I say Black Lives Matter. Right. Like no one said that it was just Black Lives Matter, but like we have to matter at the same level as you do to make them all matter right like that's where we are on it and that's i think that's what's really cool is that we are causing change right we're making people have this conversation and it's not just black people fighting for us it is white people too i've had a lot of conversation with white teammates who will back us 100%. They're not sure what they're going to do. They're not sure what they can do the next step, but that's why they call me. They say, Trey, what can I do? And that's why I'm super hopeful

and I'm super excited. And I'm also very prideful to be a black man in this world today. So while you're watching all this, while you're processing this, you're also dealing with total uncertainty about your job and your livelihood and your vocation right now. And we just saw hundreds of minor leaguers get released and a couple dozen players from the Braves organization. And I know that many of those players probably would have been released anyway, even if there hadn't been a pandemic. That's just the reality of life in the minor leagues. But still, to have it happen all at once and in those numbers and in this economy and with the coronavirus, I mean, did you have close friends and teammates who were let go? And how are they dealing with this?

So I had two of my really really close friends get released and the part that really makes me upset which is out of the brains control like i'm not blaming the brains or even baseball for this right i'm blamed like it just sucks that these dudes did not have a chance to improve on everything they worked on in the offseason right like they didn't get released in the offseason. So they had four months to grow, learn, adapt, change their swing, change their bodies, change their mindset. And yet they didn't even get a chance to play a game to prove it. That's what hurts to me. Like if guys get released after like four years of just not being very good, I understand. Right. The Braves have to do what the Braves have to do.

I understand, right? The Braves have to do what the Braves have to do. But when you get released simply because, like, you were sitting at the crib and, like, we got to do this to, like, afford to keep doing what we're doing, that's what hurts the most, and that's what sucks about that whole thing. And I've been trying to train every day, and in my gym, we've been having great conversations about these things. And it's also helped me grow, and then I grind, and I get it done, and then at 1 o'clock I set back grind and I get it done. And then I, at one o'clock,

I've set back up and I get back to, you know, what can I do to help the community? To go back a bit, it must seem like a long time ago now, but you were in big league camp with the Braves this spring. And so you're walking into that clubhouse and seeing Freddie Freeman and Ronald Acuna and Oz Yalby's and Nick Marcakis and Felix Hernandez. And I mean, what was going through your head when you're in there getting changed with these guys, talking to these guys, and how self-conscious are you? I mean, I know that you're a confident guy, I think, but still how quickly you jumped up the ladder last year

and then to walk into this big league environment with these stars. Were you watching everything you said, everything you did, or did you feel comfortable there? I would be lying if I felt comfortable because I feel like you can't feel comfortable unless you've been there long enough, right? Like, you don't just, like, the guys who are comfortable day one are blessed, right? Like, everyone is nervous that first day.

And I was only up there for like two and a half weeks. And I think that it really hit home for me like home home for me when Andrew Jones and Eric Young were teaching me outfield and to my left is a gold glover Ender Enciarte to my right is Ronald Acuna and on the other side of me is Nick Marquecas and I'm like bro what like I grew up watching Nick Marquecas play like I know Nick Marquequez you know i'm saying like yeah like all these people that i you know that's where you i think the biggest challenge in big league camp is not getting starstruck like felix hernandez prime was not when i was in like prime age to watch baseball right like i remember watching his perfect game no hitters you know

i'm saying like i, I remember that. I remember Freddie's debut. Like, I remember all that. So you have to act like you don't know who they are. Like, I know Marcelo Zuna is $18 million richer than I am, and that is dope as hell, right? But I got to act like I'm just one of the boys. That's the hardest part.

Or, like, when you face a guy and you know who he is, right? Like, Jack Flaherty pitched against the Cardinals, and I'm like, so we're not going to act like this ain't Jack Flaherty, right? Like, we're not going to act like Mike Sirocco doesn't talk to me all the time or Fulton Nevis, you know, started in the playoffs for us. Or, you know what I'm saying? Like, those guys who people see as like super figures are right next to you having lunch with you talking to you about random stuff and you try

to act like they you don't want to ask for their autograph yeah so how did you find out that spring training was suspended and what was that time like for you as a minor leaguer not knowing where to go or how long this would last or whether you'd be paid or what so uh i probably knew it was going to happen probably a day before it happened for us because the other some other teams had already sent their players home you know it's a small world in minor league baseball one guy knows a guy everyone knows and the braves brought us in and told us that like we're going to do everything we can to pay you. We're going to do everything we can to do right by you. We don't think it's going to be that long, but I did not think we would be doing this right now. They did not think that I don't

think anyone did, but we're here now and they're adjusting. But yeah, when we were in spring, we were freaking out because we didn't know what was going on. We didn't know how to go about it. We didn't know what was next. We didn't even know really what the coronavirus was just yet, right? We had just started hearing about it because I'm not going to lie, I'm in a bubble too. Like, oh, another disease. Cool. We'll be fine, guys. It's just like the flu. But then you realize how the magnitude of this, and you're like, wow, this was crazy. So that's kind of what it was. It's just, we all tried to like process it, but like no one took it serious until about two weeks later when we couldn't leave the house.

And do you typically get a second job over the off season and have you been working or thinking about working as you wait or just trying to stay ready for a season if there is one kind of get in the way of trying to do anything else? So I normally always get a job in the off season, but that's kind of normal for me. I always get a job, but no, I haven't yet, but I'm definitely thinking about it. I'm trying to do something where I'm able to be flexible that if something did happen,

I'm not screwing over everyone involved, right? Like maybe an assistant coach to a team, right? Or something like that. And I can really grow and keep going and keep playing my game and playing in these games that I'm having with my friends. We're playing pickup, sandlot type of baseball right now. And that's been fun because I've been able to still play. And that's what's been dope about it. Yeah. So you're not an established big leaguer who's made major league money and might have his own batting cage and hit tracks and home gym. So how are you staying in shape and trying to be better? And I know that so many

things have been closed and it's been hard to get together safely with people. So what have you been able to do? So for a while, I have a trainer who's like my uncle and he allowed me to come work out one at a time you know it wasn't anything crazy but we're just so close it was pretty much like going to his house and doing some lifts in the garage but he wanted me to stay ready because we didn't know right like he wanted me because he cared about me to give me every opportunity to make sure I was ready to go so that was dope and now that everything's opened up me and my friends we play a game every Wednesday at Lake Point. We play a 12-inning game.

You get about five or six at-bats. Pitchers get to throw. We got big leaguers out there, minor leaguers out there, college guys out there. And we're all just playing and having fun. There's music. Everything's going on. We wear sweats to play and stuff like that. So I just been just, I just started playing two weeks ago. We did live at bats probably two weeks before that.

So it's, that's kind of what I've been doing. Were you nervous at all about doing that? Or if a season did start, would you have any reservations at all about doing that? So I wholeheartedly would do, I just love baseball. It's hard for me to like rationalize, like, dude, you might get corona. Because I love baseball so much. And so far, so good. Honestly, we don't have that much contact with each other. We're really not that close to each other. There's a couple rules at Perfect Game, like no dugouts, which we're all up and down the right and left field line. So we're

honestly chilling. So it's been so far so good. No one's gotten hurt yet. We don't play super hard. We play hard enough to care. So that's kind of how it is. And it's been going well. And we haven't haven't had any hiccups. And have the Braves shared any, I don't know, workout advice or mental training or anything that would be helpful to you and kind of helping you improve or stay ready? Our mental performance coach has been emailing us and keeping us informed and giving us exercise to keep focusing and learning how to focus and things like that. So they've definitely done their part.

They keep in touch. They definitely try to make sure that we're doing something. And they've definitely done their part to make sure that we're ready to go. Because you can't force me to work out, right? Like the brains aren't going to come down here and find me every day I don't work out, but they're going to ask you what you're doing and you're going to be able to tell what people did when they get back. Well, they're not far from you, so I guess they could come check on you,

but not most people. Well, before I ask about the specifics of these negotiations that are going on, I want to ask about the uncertainty of just not knowing if there's going to be baseball because fans feel it and I feel it. years go on, but for you, it's your livelihood. And just psychologically, how tough has it been for your career to temporarily kind of be taken out of your hands and to, you know, see the news along with everyone else? And here's the proposal and here's when they might start and, oh, it looks like they're not starting and just the standstill that we've seen. Yes. I think this kind of shows us, you know, how like how this all works right like we're starting to understand the business side and how you know the relationship between the players and the owners and things like that so it's been something to where corona has allowed us to learn

like i don't know if this movement would be as big as it is if we weren't on some type of lockdown still all right like if we were still full-blown open we don't know some type of lockdown still, right? Like if we were still full blown open, we don't know if people would have just read and swept over this. But the fact that you have to sit at home and hear and learn and listen to all this stuff makes people care more. So it's been a blessing and a curse, you know,

a blessing because it's been a really allowed us to, you know, recognize what's going on. And it's been a curse because I can't play baseball, but I'd rather trade, you know know my son being able to walk around normal to then playing baseball any day of the week so it's been a blessing and I'm blessed to be able to do both right now so it's a win-win so I have no complaints right now I'm still you know I'm always hoping for more and hoping for better yeah and on the whole I think the players have been pretty reasonable in these talks, and I think if you're going to blame one side for being obstinate or unfair or holding up

the start of the season, it would be ownership that deserves a lot of the blame. But you're not in the union, although I'm sure you hope to be sometime soon. And on the one hand, you're making $400 a month and you don't even know for sure that you will be beyond this month and you're willing to play. So some of you must be thinking, man, even if they do take an additional pay cut, they're still going to be making much, much more than I am. And here I am ready to go out there. But on the other hand, these players are possibly protecting your future earnings or standing up for principles that you would support so where do your sympathies lie so at first i was really mad you know right like

millionaires arguing about millions but like then my dad was like yeah trey but these guys will represent you longer than whatever you're going through right now right and like that's our goal right and i'm like you're right you are definitely right so whatever they need to do i back them wholeheartedly because they know better than we do what's going on because there hasn't been much public talk going on so i think that i just have to trust the process even though it sucks and i want to play i gotta trust the process and i mean even if there is some shortened mlb season now it seems pretty unlikely that there I got to trust the process. in with and so I wonder what you're hoping for I mean if there's not going to be regular leagues and a full schedule are you hoping for something like the AFL which you went to last year and maybe an expanded version of that or what do you think could conceivably still happen here

that's for sure more the outlook for our minor league guys I'll be honest with you I'm trying to make a big league debut this year so I hope I don't have to go to no Florida fall league. Cause they're like, Oh, Trey did his thing. He don't got to prove nothing, but you know, playing baseball is playing baseball. I don't care if I even make a debut and go play more. We ain't played nowhere near as many as I played last year. And there's no way we can make that happen. Played 150 last year. So, um, uh, I just got to be able to take it on a chin but uh yeah i think there's gonna be like a florida state league or arizona fall league like all that stuff gonna be like it'll be the biggest year of winter ball fall league all that stuff yeah and i mean you were

drafted after being a four-year college guy so you're not 19 or 20 you have to make the most of this time so how much of a setback do you think it would be to miss a season or most of a season or it's the fact that well everyone else will also be missing that season so maybe it doesn't matter so much or you can do things on your own that can compensate for that i actually agree with you like i just think i'm getting older and like when you get older it is what it is like your time whenever that time is to hang up the cleats is getting closer by the day. Right. Whether Corona is around or not, like I still am losing days. Like even if I was in double A, I would be losing days.

So that sucks that I can't even really move up the system right now. And I'm going to be 25 by time. It's time to get back to normal. So that does suck because, you you know with arbitration and all that stuff you know i might not be 30 till it's time for me to get a deal that can help my family out for generations yeah right and i also wonder i mean you were a 32nd round draft pick and now you're on prospect lists and you're on the radar but a year ago two years ago that might not have been the case and you you know you could have been one of those players who was getting released if if this had happened

all the time yeah a year from now i could have been on the chopping block like yeah you really never know how the organization could have viewed me at that point or let's talk about how in the gcl i was hitting 140 what if i would have hit 200 the whole time i would have definitely got released so like i have been blessed beyond measure to be able to perform right on time and kind of have this safety net for now with my security of my job but this will all be over and i'll still have to perform next year so uh you're right though it's been uh kind of wild to see how kind of lucky i've gotten to fall in the right place yeah and i wonder if you've thought about future guys who will be in a similar position and

won't get lucky in that way because like you know the draft is taking place later this week it's going to be five rounds this year it'll probably be shorter in the future there are going to be fewer minor league teams and so in that environment another player who comes along like you maybe just doesn't even get that chance. And, you know, I don't know, maybe there's Indie Ball or somewhere else you could go in international league, but there might just be fewer opportunities. And as you said, that's a shame if you're someone who, like you, really made some major changes and improved as a player and might not have gotten a chance to show that. So, you know, yeah, like most players who are going to get released or drafted in the 40th round or whatever, they probably weren't going to make it anyway.

But there will be some guys who just don't get the opportunity to show what they could have done. Yeah, and those are guys I feel for, right? So, like, I've heard the 20-round rumor. the opportunity to show what they could have done yeah and those are guys i feel for right so like like i've heard the 20 round rumor like i wouldn't even have gotten drafted if there was only 20 rounds right like so like that's scary to think about and i just hope that the mlb goes about it and doesn't waste picks on johnny manziel and russell wilson you know like maybe they actually don't get the gardener for 30 years, his son to be drafted when he literally doesn't even play baseball. Like we need to cut that part of the

draft out. And I'm hoping that the 20 rounds will do that and not cut opportunities if that makes sense. Yeah. Right. Or like the high school kid, you know, isn't signing and we, we, we draft them in the 22nd round when like we could have got somebody who really really wanted to play yeah and for people who haven't read the mvp machine or need a refresher could you just give a quick recap of how you turned your career around at mizzou and how you carried that into last season last season was even more of a change so like at mizzou i changed my swing pattern right i'm really big on launch angle, exit velo. Use this tools, right? I don't gear my entire life around it, but I use these tools to

be able to, you know, measure out where I want to be. I was told that between five and 15 degrees at 92 miles per hour, or is it 90 or 88? It's something to where I thought it was really easy to obtain. You can hit 787. And Coach Lawson was right at me and said, do you want to hit 700? I said, yes, sir, I want to hit 700. He said, well, hit the ball over the up screen every single time really hard and you can hit 700. And, you know, we don't always get to hit 700, but if I gear my swing up to hit the ball in the air with authority, when I miss their home runs over the fence. When I don't, when I do miss low, they're still line drives. If I'm late, they're down the line. If I'm early, they're pulled down the other line. So therefore I'm giving myself a lot of room for error.

In this past year, I decided to make my swing my own swing, right? I think a lot of us as players are being coached our swings every single step of the way so last year I decided to not hit up any hitting coaches I only checked in with some of them once every three months and I was able to teach myself my swing through video right like there's so many videos Miguel Cabrera, Mookie Betts, Cody Bellinger all these guys hitting so I just made my video look just like their video. And that's where I came up with the swing that I have now. And in college, part of it was not just changing your swing, but also learning which pitches to

swing at and which not to swing at. And you use TrackMan for that. And this grading system that was set up that kind of told you, you know, what were the good takes and what were the bad takes. And so you were able to, to evaluate yourself that way. And so I've been kind of curious, that was something that you did in the cage largely, or at least you had. Oh, for sure. And so a lot of the progress you made was not happening in games. And so I wonder how crucial you think the games are. And so I wonder how crucial you think the games are. Like if you if there are fewer minor league teams in the future or if there are no games taking place this summer, if you have access to those tools, does that replace some of what you might have needed many games to figure out in the past? Or do you still need the games really to cement that learning that you do outside the field?

I think that a game is a byproduct of how you practice, right? Like my numbers literally show you everything that I practice, right? Like I practice on not swinging at balls out of the zone. I end up not striking out that much. Like I struck out less than 100 times, which is like 10% of the time, which I guess is absurd. But I thought my strikeouts were too high. but like i'm a product of what i practice when i miss balls i miss them in the air straight up like that's it like i know when i'm getting too uppy like to swing up i know where i'm missing my swing is a byproduct of everything i practice like right now i'm working on tunneling right like i did I did three, four and five

when I was at Mizzou, but I want to even tunnel it down to where I'm looking in the direct spot where the pitcher's coming from. And I want to be able to know yes or no within the first 20 feet of the ball. That's where I'm trying to take it to the next level. I know you had specific goals going into last year. What were your goals going into this season when you thought it was going to be a normal season so last year my goals were 340 with 15 I ended up hitting like 320 with 14 this year I want to hit 320 with 25 I just felt like that I was going to be in triple a by halfway through the year with all the balls changing, I have to hit 25 to 30. I think that that would have put me in a great opportunity to be traded or therefore be ready for, you know,

anything that the Braves want me to do. But those were my goals at the time. And I did two home runs in spring training. So I feel like in two weeks I hit two. So I think I can hit 25 over a year. Did you get one off a big leaguer or was it other minor league guys? It was in a big league game. So for the day, he was a big leaguer. So that's how it's going to count for me. Yeah, that's fair, I think. All right. Well, I hope you get a chance to get back on the field and start demonstrating that soon.

And in ProBall, do you have more resources to work on those things, more information, more technology? Or was Mizzou pretty similar to what you've been exposed to in the brave system so far? I would say the Mizzou was very ahead of the braids, but it also helps only have 35 guys you have to teach this to and not 300 people with like seven different languages. So I would say in Mizzou we were ahead of the curve, but I think that, you know, just numbers wise, we were able to sit in meetings with 13 hitters and teach them, teach us all how

to use all this information, right? That'd be really hard to do in a pro ball setting. So I don't fault the Braves, but they're getting better with our information. Like they're starting to tell us more and more stuff. And I'm all about that. Yeah. All right. Well, I guess just to end, to go back to where we started, if anyone's listening to this and wanting to do more, help more, learn more, is there anything specific you would recommend that they read or they watch or someone they should talk to or donate to or any concrete instructions that you've been giving people? So I would say the first step would be to look at Netflix and watch the documentary called 13th. Kind of lays out how the 13th Amendment was set up and how it affects America. I won't give it

away, but it would be very eye-opening for most people. I would start there and then keep asking questions. I think if we keep using dialogue, keep asking questions, my door is open. Ask me anything. I'm really here to learn and grow myself, right? So everyone reach out to the person next to them and have these tough conversations and be willing to see the other side so that we can keep moving forward. All right. And you can find Trey on Twitter. He's very active and responsive there at justcallmeduce. There's an underscore between the me and the deuce. I will link to it. You can find him and talk to him on there.

And thank you very much for your time and for coming on and for being so open about this. And I hope that you get through this challenging times for multiple reasons and that you're able to get back to baseball sometime soon. Thank you. I appreciate having me on. Congratulations on all your success. Thank you for allowing me to tell my story. And maybe I changed one guy's mind about hitting and that's the whole point. All right, that will do it for today. Thanks again to Trey. You know, when you write about someone, especially if it's someone who's made some changes and made some improvements and you're sort of selling them as an example of the kind of transformations that

technology can help players make, naturally you have an extra reason to root for them. You want them to do well. You don't want to have written about a mirage, right? You don't want to have held someone up as an example of a player improving themselves and then have them go back to what they've been. Not that you want to see anyone fail, but Trey is really easy to root for for so many reasons. When I talked to him a couple years ago, he expressed interest in maybe being a hitting coach when his playing days were done, and I certainly think he could do that.

But if he keeps hitting, it might be a while before his playing days are done. So I wish him continued success. Makeup isn't everything. It's not a substitute for talent, but it certainly helps to have it, and he has it. I don't know whether this will be a regular week for us. We're still sort of feeling our way forward, seeing what seems right. I know we are planning to do something about the draft at the end of the week, so stay tuned. We are planning to do something about the draft at the end of the week. So stay tuned.

You'll hear us when you hear us. And thank you again for bearing with us as we try to figure out how we can help or at least not be part of the problem. If you're interested in supporting the podcast on Patreon, you can go to patreon.com slash effectively wild. signed up and pledged their support to help keep us going and get themselves access to some perks noah eisner doug weirts james bixby greg padgett and lonnie smith thanks to all of you you can join our facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash effectively wild although i understand if you are not enamored of the idea of supporting facebook in some, you can rate and review us on iTunes and other podcast platforms. And you can contact us via email at podcastatfangraphs.com or via the Patreon messaging system

if you are a supporter. Thank you to Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance. And we will be back with another episode sometime soon. Talk to you then. Bye. They lovin' my style cause I'm ballin' She lovin' it She lovin' the way cause I'm ballin' I'm shootin' my shot cause I'm ballin' She lovin' the way cause I'm ballin'

Trey ballin', Trey ballin' Trey ballin', Trey ballin' Trey ballin', Trey ballin' Trey ballin', Trey ballin' They lovin' my style cause I'm ballin' She lovin' the way cause I'm ballin' I'm shootin' my shot cause I'm ballin' She lovin' the way Trey ballin'