Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 1753: Bringing Up Baby

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about what Shohei Ohtani might mean for the Mariners’ slight playoff chances and Riley O’Brien’s recent debut, before Ben shares some (good) personal news. Then (17:33) they bring on Will Leitch to discuss the St. Louis Cardinals. Will shares what it has been like to root for the team […]

Hello and On the left, your mother's brown On the right Hello and welcome to episode 1753 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of The Ringer, joined by Meg Rowley of Fangraphs. Hello, Meg. Hello. People in our mentions are trying to set up some sort of conflict for this forthcoming Sunday when there is potential, potential.

It's unlikely for both of these things to happen, but it could be the case that the Mariners are still in the running for a playoff spot on the last day of the regular season. And that Shohei Otani will be making that start for the Angels against the Mariners. And people have been tweeting at us as if this would cause some great rift or potential conflict between podcast hosts. What are your thoughts on this potential event? I think there's a way for us to both be happy, Ben. Yeah. I think that here's how that, here's the scenario. Here's how it goes.

I think that it is perfectly possible for Otani to pitch well, right? To pitch, to potentially even pitch deep into a game, right? To do that. And then the Angels bullpen can be the Angels bullpen and the Mariners can still win.

There's no harm done to Otani and his season stat line. And there's no harm done and the Mariners can still win. There's no harm done to Otani and his season stat line. And there's no harm done to the Mariners and their strange and surprising postseason aspirations. I don't see this as requiring conflict at all unless he pitches a no hitter. And the Angels offense proves to be potent in a way that it often is not. I think we can all be happy here. I think we need not invite conflict or discord. There's enough of that in the world as it is.

Yeah, I think we could both enjoy this. I don't know how much you would enjoy it, because presumably there would be some anxiety associated with that scenario for you. Even in your days of not quite as intense fandom that would still be something special for the Mariners to be in the running there and they very much still are in the running as we record here on Wednesday afternoon so yes it could happen and I agree I don't think that there needs to be any conflict there our goals can be aligned that we want Otani to pitch well and also at least you would want the Mariners

to win that game and we know that's possible it's not only possible for Otani to pitch well and the Angels to lose anyway it might be probable I mean it has certainly happened enough times this year that he just has not gotten very much run support and the Angels lose anyway so yeah I guess you know he's still looking for win number 10 on the season if you care about pitcher wins and i suppose that would make possible some fun facts that are not possible with nine wins potentially but i don't know he's already the subject of so many exclusive fun facts clubs that i don't particularly care about that or about pitcher wins. So, yeah, I did, I think, calculate that if he pitches eight scoreless innings, he will get his ERA below three on the season, which would be kind of cool. Again, if you care about ERA, I care a little bit more about that than I do about pitcher wins.

If he were to do that, it would be tough for the Mariners to win. It could still happen. for the mariners to win it could still happen but yeah i want the best for him and i certainly do not want the worst for the mariners because they have experienced the worst already yeah but see like then you're just setting up a dramatic walk off right like you have you have this you have this great start from otani he pitches eight innings he gets his er like scoreless innings even scoreless innings ben and he gets his he gets his era under three and then some member packy notton comes in and he just gives mitch hanegar a meatball and then they walk it off and they go to the wild card and they probably lose very promptly but i'm feeling some i feelings. I felt some feelings last night.

They weren't ravenous. I wasn't jumping around, but I was like firmly wanting a win rather than a loss. And when they came back after going down early, I was very happy. It made me feel some happy feelings. So I think that what we really need to add to my already busy October calendar is actual anxiety about the outcomes of any individual game beyond whether or not they will allow for extra days off. So good job, Mariners. Yes, you are going to have a very busy October calendar this year, and I will explain why in just a moment. But I did want to

mention one more baseball related thing, which is that there is a new major leaguer whom we don't have to meet because we have met him already. Riley O'Brien debuted for the Cincinnati Reds on Tuesday. And Riley O'Brien, as some of you may recall, he has been a guest on Effectively Wild. And he is also the grandson of Effectively Wild legend Johnny O'Brien, who has been on the podcast multiple times, including once with Riley. So that's pretty cool. And I would encourage everyone to go back maybe and listen to that episode where we had both Johnny and Riley on. Riley on. That was Effectively Wild 1332. That was February 2019, a Jeff episode. And Johnny O'Brien was, of course, one of the O'Brien twins with his late brother, Eddie. And he was the subject of a great fun fact discovery Jeff made. And then we had him on the podcast and he turned out to be a wonderful character. And then his grandson, Riley, who was at the time a Tampa Bay Rays minor leaguer, he came on the pod too. And now he is a major leaguer as well. And I think we talked to Johnny about what it would be like if Riley were to make the majors and the pride associated with that must be pretty intense. So I am happy for both of them.

And he didn't pitch great. He pitched an inning and a third and gave up a couple runs. But hey, he made it. He is a 26-year-old right-handed pitcher. And now he is a major leaguer. So congrats to the O'Briens, effectively wild legends. Congratulations. Now, some personal news people are so nervous right now they're so afraid it's not bad no it's great

i am uh embarking on a new phase of my life it's uh that will still include the podcast but not uh in the immediate short-term future perhaps so about to be a dad this is not news to you nick but it is news to most of the audience and this is happening now evidently i did not mean to spring this on everyone like the moment it was happening i actually woke up today and thought, you know, today is probably the day that I should say something about the baby because this will be happening soon-ish. And I probably should not just announce this and then disappear or disappear even before I announce it. So I'll just say something now because the baby, little Shohei Otani Lindbergh or Otani Lindbergh, we thought would be a nice name for a

girl. We're not actually going to name her Otani, but I'm just saving everyone the jokes that they would make about that. But she was due on October 9th. And so that was roughly when we were expecting her to arrive. But there were some elevated liver enzymes, and evidently they think it is safest to induce. So right after this podcast, we're just going to go to the hospital and have a baby. Have a baby. Yeah. I never know what pronouns to use. I'm having a baby. I'm not literally having a baby. We're having a baby. I don't want to make it sound as if I am delivering the baby, as if I'm taking credit for that. I'm not. So

collectively, we're having a baby. Jesse is having a baby. I will be there too. I contributed to the baby. I believe. Yeah. It's like you don't want to imply distance in a way that would seem to suggest that this isn't your problem or something. It's like it's your baby, but you are not doing the birthing, but you'll be there for moral support. So I think it's fine to say that we're having a baby, right? I mean, like, it's, it's nice. Like it is your guys's baby and, uh, it's, it's going to be both of your thing to like, you know, deal with in the middle of the night. So there you go. Yeah. So I don't know exactly how this will affect the podcast. I know that I'm taking some time off from The Ringer. I don't know exactly how long or when that's starting. I

was planning to take a couple months there, but I was not planning for this to happen so soon. So I'm still trying to figure out exactly what is going to happen there and what the schedule will allow, but basically going to step back there for a while and also going to step back from the podcast at probably the worst possible time for me to do that. So apologies for the timing because I know that October is your busiest month as it is and having to host the podcast solo or with guest co-hosts or whatever you do,

friends from Fangraphs essentially, it will be still an excellent show and i will be enjoying listening and i don't know if i'll pop on from time to time i'm not falling off the face of the earth or anything but uh we will keep saying that and i keep saying i think that you're not going to be able to do the pod for a minute. Yeah. It's very, it's not like me to not do the pod. I know. Or to not do work in general, which just, it makes me sound like the kid who asked the teacher if there's going to be homework or something.

And I was not that kid, but I do enjoy my work and my job and the podcast and everything. And so I don't long not to do it. So it will be weird for me to sit on the sidelines, but I think it is important and necessary that I do for some time. I did that when I got married. And not only have I remained married, but Jesse still wanted to have a kid with me. So I haven't screwed that up totally, I guess, with my posting podcasts on my wedding morning or whatever it was.

But yeah, we don't have the best timing, at least when it comes to covering baseball, because we got married in mid-October and this baby was going to be in mid-October, but evidently we'll be in late September, depending on how long exactly this takes. Well, as I said to you when you told me the news, like you guys chose, I mean, I realized that weddings are not one person's sole directive or anything, but you like made a decision to get married in October and babies just happen when they happen. You know, you can't really control that too terribly much.

So I think that it'll be fine. And one of the nice things about this pod is that we have a lovely network of friends and industry contacts so that people won't have to just listen to me gab about baseball and we'll do all the things that we do in the postseason we'll we'll get some streams together and there will be fun funny people to help us do that for our patreon supporters so you know some things will not be the same and the way i think about it is i sleep very little in the month anyway so what's a little what's a little more we

will have that in common i guess yeah right you're well positioned because you already don't sleep and so when your daughter is making noise in the middle of the night and like Jesse needs a break and needs to rest you you're just gonna be awake anyhow I I do worry though because you know you've already watched so many shows so do you have a show that you plan to to watch while you are up with the baby well we just started what is for me a re-watch of dexter and for jesse is the first time i've been trying to talk her into it for a while because the dexter reboot or continuation of whatever we're calling it is coming out soon so i was trying to get her into it and she was resistant at first but now she's hooked so we've got several seasons of that and some other things that maybe we will revisit or that we've sort of been saving for this time.

But yeah, a lot of people have made that point. You don't sleep anyway or you sleep at strange times. So this will be normal for you. and that it's not just that I was subsisting on the sleep that I did get and that this will push me over the edge into some place where the tenuous balance that I had achieved will now be disrupted, but I will be working less, so maybe I will sleep some of that time. I don't know. Billions of people have done this, so I assume I can do it too,

even though I have no idea what I'm in for exactly. I might suggest that you also do like a fraser rewatch in addition to dexter because like i don't know man serial killer energy is like really intense while you're also sleep deprived with the new baby so you know give yourself a mellow outlet where it's just the hijinks of a a rich otherwise fine psychiatrist yes so this uh this will change my life in various ways i'm sure and there may be a crying baby in the background of future episodes of this podcast perhaps at various times i will try my best not to have that be the case but won't be completely in my control and this is a first for the podcast no no host of Effectively Wild has had a baby during the run of the podcast.

So we'll see how that goes. But it is exciting and scary and all of the usual adjectives that people apply to this situation. It is happening. Yeah. It has not seemed entirely real until right now. Well, I hope that everything goes smoothly and you guys have an easy and smooth delivery and everyone's healthy on the back end. That's all that really matters. And we will keep the seat warm while you're gone. And if you find yourself just like needing to talk about baseball unexpectedly, you know, you can always pop by.

But otherwise, I hope that you will not think about us very much at all. needing to talk about baseball unexpectedly you know you can always pop by but otherwise i hope that you will not think about us very much at all well i will be listening at the very least i'm looking forward to that pleasure that you have described of listening to the podcast without being on it which will be weird but also nice and yeah if i do have a lot of middle of the night times when i have to be awake, then I guess Effectively Wild will be a companion for me because we've gotten emails in the past from people who were in that situation themselves. I remember getting emails from listeners who said, I was in the hospital waiting for my baby to be born or my baby had just been born and I was listening to Effectively Wild

or we got up to help the baby in the middle of the night, and I was listening to the podcast. So that was always nice. And now I will have the same experience, I assume. So this will be interesting, I am sure. And I did not always see myself as someone who was definitely going to be a dad someday, or even up until recently. It was always one of those, yeah, maybe, you know, one of those days. But as we are all on the slog to rigor mortis, you have to make a decision about that at a certain point, just biologically speaking. So here we are. And it's exciting because I'm about to meet someone I hope who will be a very important part of my life. And it's not often that you get to anticipate meeting

someone who is going to be very special to you. It rarely happens at this stage of our lives that we make those kinds of new connections. And if you're going on a date or whatever, you don't know if that's going to be the date that is the one where you meet the one. But this is one where you can sort of set a date and know, yeah, going to meet someone who's going to be a big part of the rest of my life, hopefully. So we'll see. Oh, Ben. Yeah. So I will be around.

And if anyone wants to send me congrats on the sex emails or whatever, I will probably still see them because I'm constitutionally incapable of unplugging completely. But the podcast is in capable hands and this is not the end of the episode because we're going to do an interview now, despite the fact that shortly after that interview, we will have to leave for the hospital. But I'm going to try to concentrate on something else for a single segment here, if possible. We're going to talk about the St. Louis Cardinals, who, as we record, have not lost in a few weeks. By the time you hear this, that may be different, but they are on a 17-game winning streak. And we are going to talk to our pal, Will Leach, about them.

So we will be back in just a moment All right, everyone, adjust your playback speeds because we are joined now by our fast-talking friend, Will Leach, a man of many books and bylines and effectively filed Cardinals correspondent. Hello, Will. I'm having a baby. How's Harrison Bader doing? Yeah, that is why I'm talking fast, by the way.

I finally have an excuse. Ordinarily, I think it's because other people are listening too slowly. Today, it's because I'm trying to get through this so Ben can go be a dad. So, I'm crying out loud. So, in that case, you know, Bader's doing fine. fine he's really good O'Neill's doing fine and Schilt got really mad about the weird infield fly double play okay see you have a good have a good

time uh everything's good and Mike Shannon is ridiculous other than that okay let's go let's go honestly congratulations early congratulations Ben it's a very uh I remember this day not at all actually but uh I'm sure it will be great for you. Did you do a podcast on that day? Knowing you, you must have written something and filed something on that day, at least. You know, it will be a podcast that will be posted. It's like one of those documents in 20 years. Like my wife doesn't know about it.

My son doesn't know about it. But in 20 years, I'll be like, hey, so here's what I did on your birthday. And it was just in the delivery room. And it was really actually, it was still just about the Cardinals. In fact, the baby was unremarked upon but uh nevertheless i'm just saving it for that day ben didn't you podcast on your literal wedding day i think i posted a podcast on my wedding day

so you know you're just you're just continuing a theme you're really committed to this bit i'm i have to admire it yep apparently i'm legitimately impressed that you are putting words together in a semi-correct order right now. But very honored and delighted to be your final guest of a dad list. For the record, I don't care what anybody tells you. Nothing is different. It's totally the same. Nothing changes in your life at all. I've read too many of your newsletters about parenting to believe that that's the case.

I feel like I'm prepared now because I've read so much about parenting from you. But even if you're writing about parenting, it's being totally unprepared at all times. So I am prepared to be unprepared. And I care about the Cardinals very much right now. I can tell. The most in my mind is the fortunes of the St. Louis Cardinals. And we did not have much cause for a Cardinals correspondent over the first few months of the season. And when I had Ben Clemens of FanCrafts, who is a Cardinals fan on the podcast, not that long ago, and I brought up, hey, we haven't really talked about the Cardinals on this podcast, but they're still sort of in it. Should we have talked about them more? And Ben was like, eh, not really. I think you're okay on the Cardinals. And then the Cardinals just haven't lost a game since then. So we are recording here on Wednesday afternoon. By the time most people hear this, the Cardinals will have either won 18 games in a row or

will have finally lost a game. But as we speak, they've won 17 in a row. What happened here? Because I have kind of tracked the Cardinals through your newsletters and your podcasts as well. And there were times when you were very frustrated by the Cardinals and you seem to have given up on the Cardinals to some extent. And here they are, unbeatable, having clinched the second and a wild card. What went right here?

Well, first off, I had actually given up mostly because Meg had personally had them at negative 400% chance to make the playoffs. So that was why I stopped watching. I'm fact-checking Adam Wainwright on that here. It was not negative 400. I think they bottomed out at 1.3% chance to make the playoffs on August 8th. And they were at 2.8% as recently as September 7th. It certainly felt like negative 400%. And it's funny, I was talking with Bernie Miklas. I do the Weekly Seeing Red podcast with Bernie Miklas, longtime legendary St. Louis baseball columnist. And, you know, we were talking about how at the end of the 2019 season,

the Cardinals had this press conference with Schilt and Moselak and Michael Gersh. And it was after they'd lost that series to the Nationals. And they have very misjudged the room because they kind of came out from that press conference being like, well, everybody, it's the end of the year press conference. You're welcome, Cardinals fans. And people were like, no, no, no, this was not a good team. We don't like what you're building here. We're excited to make the NLCS. We're obviously a little spoiled, but this is going in the wrong direction. And a lot of it was based in the offense. A lot of it was based in not just the office, but this general idea.

Like, listen, John Moselec and this ownership group and really this management group has been running the Cardinals for 20 years. Like, obviously they've had a lot of success in that time, but then inevitably a certain amount of inertia and stasis will kind of come in. And this was the year that it felt that that really came home to roost. And it wasn't that they had bad players.

All the pieces that have been on this 17, hopefully 18 game win streak, all the pieces, they were all still there, but nothing was, and even look at the numbers, they're like, well, they should be, like the pieces are not adding up to a larger thing. What has really happened is the big bet that this front office has made was so much on the outfield.

Of course, they've taken so much hits for the outfield, for all the guys they've traded away, all the mistakes they've made, whether it's, of course, Pham or Voight and obviously Rosarino. But it's funny, if you actually look back at it now, I think this outfield right now, I would actually probably take those three players over any of those players, maybe a Rosarito. But that has really been the thing that's happened. Not only has O'Neal, Bader, and Carlson, not only have they been terrific, they have been exciting in a way that the Cardinals just have not been,

even when they were good. They really have not been exciting in that way. And so we were talking about the idea that no matter what happens, no matter what happens with this team, if they lose in the first round to Los Angeles and the wildcard round to Los Angeles, San Francisco, if they were to have that postseason press conference this year, even though they didn't get as far as they did two years ago, you now can kind of believe the proof of concept a little bit. The whole time they've said, be patient. The outfield has always been the issue with the offense. Basically, what's really changed this year is that outfields started hitting.

And more to the point, remember for most of this year, the Cardinals had like this historic walk rate. They were walking guys like crazy, particularly from the bullpen. I think in like mid-August, they walked a guy with the bases loaded and they were like three off the all-time record. And it was mid august so like and what happened was they basically got rid of they they switched strategy when it came to pitching decided to do what they probably should have done the first place which is focus entirely on defense don't worry about strikeout rate you bring in like listen happen lester are let's say not impressive, but they throw strikes. They throw strikes.

They play to the defense. This has been the source of Wainwright's success all year. If Wainwright were pitching for a lot of other teams, he would not have the numbers. It's not Cardinals magic. It's the best defense in baseball. And finally, they've stopped walking guys and trusting that defense, particularly that outfield defense, where if you watch them play right now, I'm actively surprised when a ball falls in the outfield anymore.

And that's a very weird place, particularly in St. Louis, which has a pretty big outfield. So that has really been the thing that's changed the most. The outfielders are hitting in the defense and they're finally stopping walking guys. And then also, and so if your team does that,

you too can win 17 in a row. That's how it works. If you fix those two things, you win 17 games in a row. It's magic. I think we're going to ask you to say a little bit more than that about the particulars of that 17 game run, because I think a lot of teams are like, our defense is pretty good. Why don't we get to win 17 games? Before we do that, I kind of want to ask you a question just about feelings,

which is like, when in that 17 game run did things start to shift around for you? And I mean that in two ways. So first there's the like, oh, wow, this team might make the playoffs feeling, right? That is a strange shift in one's fandom when one's expectations are sort of reasonably set and then have to move very quickly. And then there's the when did you start to feel like this team was going to go on a run with this level of success? Because there are a lot of teams that sort of get hot in September and they manage their way into the postseason, but they don't normally do it winning

17 in a row. That is an unusual thing to do. So when did your emotional state start to shift from being irritated to being excited and having some optimism that these two things might start to happen for you? series in mid-September. It's like, oh, it's over. That's okay. I mean, there could be major labor issues this offseason. So I'm just going to enjoy watching baseball while I have it. It's obviously over. They're not going anywhere. Bill, please don't say major labor issues right now. I'm sorry. Oh my God. I'm sorry. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I'm having major labor issues at the moment. Sorry. Oh my Lord. Phrasing. Phrasing Phrasing I apologize Ben Good lord Potential CBA negotiations CBA like an acronym for something in childbirth

That I don't know Childbirth awesomeness Anyway the point is They had a four game series After that awful awful awful loss on September 5th Where the Daniel Vobe walk-off grand slam, where it really was like, oh, I can't watch this anymore. And they lost their first two games to a Dodgers team and got wiped out both times.

That was when Pujols was back. Pujols didn't play in the first game. The crowds had finally come back because Pujols had returned. And it felt like, okay, you feel like it's like the Sopranos. Like, Dodgers, not in the face. Okay, like I want an open. Cassie just kind of wanted it to be over. And then they win the last two, they lose the Reds. And that's when this started.

The moment where it really shifted, I would have to say from, Hey, they're back in the back of the wildcard race was probably that Met series, particularly the Tuesday night game on the 14th that went like 12 innings. And they had the nice where that kind of ended the Met season and kept the Cardinals going. But the time where the streak went into into I can't feel my face territory was without question uh Thursday the 23rd which was the game against the Brewers where they fell behind 5-1 in the first inning they had they gave up a Wainwright gave up a grand slam in the first inning and it felt like hey you know what they've taken control of the wild card race somehow amazingly which at that

point they had gone on the run but the the real reason they'd taken advantage of it, they'd taken control of it, was because the Reds had completely collapsed and the Padres were at, like, the Cardinals had swept both, had won two out of three from the Reds and swept the Padres. They were in clearly good position because they were playing well, but also because those teams were falling apart.

That game against the Brewers, who, again, they're the Brewers, they're really good, to finish off a four-game sweep in that regard, when you have Wainwright giving up a grand slam, that was the clear, okay, this really could keep going on. It led to the point where you had those games against the Cubs this weekend where they fell behind, and there was really not a point where you thought, oh, yeah, but they're obviously going to come back and win this game.

It really felt for the first time like it did in the post season of 11. And I know, and, and I really, I know Cardinal fans, it's surprising to hear a Cardinals fan bring up the post season of 2011, but it was the first time those feelings had really kind of been evoked where you're like, wow, they, it feels like they're going to win every game. And that, that is a bizarre feeling. The Cardinals, a great Cardinals follow Alex Chris, a fully had this great line

saying that like the problem is now this has like broken my oh six and eleven were weird but this has broken my brain to the point where there's going to be a point in like 10 years where the cardinals are like 17 games under 500 heading into september and you're like well if they go 23 and two they can still make this thing happen and And I totally believe there's a possibility. And that is what's been kind of crazy about this. Listen, the seeds were there. The general assumption, even heading into that Dodger series, was they had solved the issue with the walks,

the issue with the outfield. That was starting to get fixed a little bit. And it felt like, okay, they're closer to the team that they meant to be. They were just too far behind. June was such a disaster for this team that it really felt like, okay, at least they're closer to the team that they meant to be. They were just too far behind. June was such a disaster for this team that it really felt like, okay, at least they're respectable toward the end. They'll get over 500.

They'll keep that streak going. But to have everything laying like this, they are now in the point where they fall behind. When they fall behind 3-1, it feels like it did in game six, to be honest. After Freeze's triple, it felt like, oh, the Cardinals could literally beat the Chicago Bears at football right now. And they were good back then. So the ball gets kind of rolling on itself after a while. And I think that's clearly what's kind of happened in the last few days. the last few days. So I'm sure you're familiar with Jay Jaffe's research, either the most recent iteration or all the previous iterations about what a September hot streak means or doesn't mean for a playoff team's success. And that is based on a lot of playoff teams. And it's certainly

possible that they're individual playoff teams for whom it did portend some success just because they happened to get healthy all at once, or maybe they fell apart all at once, and that actually would bode ill for your playoff fortune. So if you were going to construct a case that the 17-game winning streak is not just a fluke or a hot streak that doesn't have a whole lot of meaning, but it actually means that the Cardinals are positioned to make some sort of run in October. What would that case be? Did the Cardinals get better in some real way or have they shown their true colors here? They were underperforming up to that point. Or is this just one of those fun but fluky things? I think that they're obviously not a 17. It hasn't ever existed.

An actual team, you're like, oh, that's clearly a team that's going to rattle off 18 in a row. I mean, it's hard to think of any team obviously doing that. But there is definitely a sense that they have – this is what they were trying to lock into gear all year. Like this is what they were trying to get together. Listen, there's a lot of things they hope would be better than they are even right now. All told, you probably would, in a theoretical universe,

not want Jon Lester to be your second starter. Like that is not like the best possible Cardinals team but the problems that have plagued this team all year they have at least done a very good job of jerry-rigging some sort of fix for them whether it's whether it's those pitchers throwing strikes whether it's you know all year you've had Goldschmidt was actually hitting the ball really hard for the first half of the year, but just wasn't really getting the results. Now he's for the second half, his OPS is over 1,000. He's been incredible in September. He's been hot at the same time that Arenado has been hot at the same time as O'Neal has been hot. Everyone's kind of becoming their best selves offensively, which really was a lot of the issue. The starting rotation is not any, it's not as, about as unsturdy as it has been all year. I mean, they've actually gotten huge stars from Jake Woodford, who has come in out of nowhere and kind of provide a little bit of stability in the rotation.

But even with the idea that like you were bringing in Lester and Hap for innings, they're still throwing like five innings a game. But like, you know, Alex Reyes had been really good in the first half, had fallen on after that. He gave up that grand slam to Vogelbach and they changed his role and kind of started moving him around and using him as a win needed rather than as closer, pushing Schilt out of his natural comfort zone, which was not the Mike Schilt we were sold, by the way. But nevertheless, now he's moving Reyes around. He's kind of gotten Reyes settled down. Getting the arms of TJ McFarlane and Luis Garcia have been really huge, guys. If you want devil magic, guys, those are the two.

Like the fact that McFarlane and Garcia have come really from, like, you know, Garcia was the closer for the Yankees AAA team. I think the Orioles had released McFarlane. And they came in and they had one clear mandate. And it was the result of watching the Cardinals for the first four months of the year throw freaking strikes. Like, throw strikes. Keep them all

in the park and throw strikes. And that's what they've both generally done. They've both had huge success from it. Garcia looks great, by the way. There are many times the Yankees have to be wondering. I know this. I've talked to Yankees fans that are very frustrated. They're like, wait, this dude throws like a hundred 100 and is like blowing guys out and we just let him go?

Late in the year, I think there's some frustration there. But I think that's the thing is the leaks they had all year, the walks, the inconsistent offense and the bullpen that was counting too much, that was basically overusing Cabrera and

overusing Reyes and overusing Gallegos. That has much, that was basically overusing Cabrera and overusing Reyes and overusing Gallegos. That situation has generally gotten fixed. Now, this is not the best version of the Cardinals. Jack Flaherty is not fully healthy. Dakota Hudson is back pitching a little bit, but those guys are clearly not there. If you get Flaherty at all in a theoretical playoffs, I would be surprised and maybe, I would be surprised if Flaherty does anything in the playoffs at this point. So you're not at your best. However, this is

the best possible Cardinals team with the roster they have right now, and they have not been that team most of this year. That team is not as good as the Dodgers. I don't know. Even if they're 18 or they are not as good as the Dodgers, but this has been the thing, too. This has been a big debate on Cardinals fans. On Cardinals fans, who would you, like, how do you want the Dodgers. But this has been the thing, too. This has been a big debate on Cardinals fans.

On Cardinals fans, how do you want the Dodgers-Giants race to kind of work out? It's kind of remarkable to even be thinking about this question. And generally, the idea has been, listen, nobody wants the Dodgers. The more games you play against the Dodgers, the more likely you are to lose that series. In the ideal world, they tie and they have to play on Monday. I think the general consensus, you'd rather play the Dodgers in the wildcard game and take your one game chance with them. But they're not as good as either team. But now you see a path for them to be able to win those games, where for a long time

this year, there just wasn't really a path. Yeah, well, speaking of devil magic candidates, you named a couple, but there are a few others who would maybe fall into that bucket. We talked about Edmundo Sosa the other stars, and probably most people haven't heard of them, but they just slot these players in whom you haven't heard of, and maybe they play a bunch of positions. They're just your generic infielder who has like a 110 OPS plus and plays good defense, and it always seems like the Cardinals have a bottomless supply of those guys. So that's part of this, I guess. If you want to go looking for a justification for calling this Cardinal Steffel magic, then that group would seem to fit into kind of the archetype. Yeah, but I don't think the Cardinals really get a lot of credit for that because, you

know, a certain level, the only reason Rondon and Newt Barr and those guys are here is because Justin Williams didn't work. Lane Thomas, they've been trying to force Lane Thomas to work forever. They finally got sick of it, traded him for Lester, and Lane Thomas is going crazy in Washington, which is just bizarre in its own place. They tried John Nagowski. They tried Austin Dean. They tried Scotty

Hurst, whoever that is. He was Newt Barr with a much less interesting name. It's not like Newt Barr is really tearing the cover off the ball either. They're just, like, I would argue, like, Rondon's been on this roster most of this year and has had some big hits lately, but it's not, like, he didn't force his way into the lineup. All of these guys have had opportunities.

Like, their opening day out right fielder was Justin Williams. You know, I mean, like, that speaks a little bit to, there were injuries there, but also speaks that things have not, the idea like, okay, once we put planned new bar into motion, everything will lock and come together. Like a lot of this is kismet. We can call it devil magic, but I would call it more,

the people the Cardinals wanted to fill those spots failed and these who heard they had left and they've gotten hot at the right time. And I think there's something to that. Listen, new bar is a good defensive outfielder. That speaks to a strength that the Cardinals already have. That's what they want out of guys like

that. It's Rondon because John Nagowski couldn't do it. It's Rondon because it's Newt Barr because Lane Thomas couldn't do it. They're still keeping Matt Carpenter on the roster at this point. There's a lot of empty spots that were empty spots on this roster that have now look like they are more filled because there are people finally

somewhat producing there, but it's not, that part is not by design. So I know that I think a part of the Cardinals devil, I feel like the first Cardinals devil magic person, it was really, it was Carpenter very early on because he was, he just kind of came out of nowhere,

but then he became became a legitimate star. So then it became guys like Cosma and Descalso and guys like that. But those were players that the Cardinals planned on. They groomed those guys to be valuable pieces of the team. Nutbar and Rondon and guys like that. Those are last resort options that they've kind of lucked into. The last time that we were dealing with Cardinals, whether we want to call it Kismet or Double Magic or whatever we want to call it,

there was a different guy at the helm. You mentioned Mike Schultz dust up over infield fly stuff, but I wonder what your perspective on him is just as a manager generally, but especially over this stretch. I'm always reticent to ascribe like particular value to managers just because we don't have a great handle on how much they're really responsible for. But as you have watched this team over the last stretch and you've observed his sort

of managerial tactics, is there devil magic to be extracted in them there, Hills, as he starts to manage this team through October? Yeah, you know, there's been a lot of frustration with Schilt for most of this year. It's not necessarily because of like big tactical things. There's a few things. I feel like Edmund has been a leadoff guy probably longer than he should have been. And I think he's overused his relievers a little bit. But generally speaking, the frustration has more been what my colleague on the Seeing

Red podcast, Bernie Miklas, calls a happy talk, which is to say that even when the Cardinals are struggling, even when things are falling apart, Schilt's always like, these guys are coming around the corner. We're about to get there. We're about to get there. And it was just like, you inevitably had to stop believing at some point

until suddenly, oh my gosh, he was right. Like, really? He was actually right the whole time. And there's really something that has bought him. There's a lot of that, frankly, because Schilt is in a way much more right the whole time. And there's really something that has bought him... There's a lot of that, frankly. Because Schilt is, in a way, much more than the two previous managers to him. Much more connected to the

front office. John Moselec has kind of groomed him for years and years. He's been very aligned with him. He's a Cardinals organization guy. He used to run Tony LaRusso's spring trainings. There are a lot of... He's an organizational person and therefore very aligned with the front office. And that actually led to a lot of frustration as well with the idea that the front office kind of had a certain amount of inertia and a certain amount of – there's been a lot of, like, reliance on nostalgia in a marketing sense this year.

It's why you saw, frankly, a lot of very empty crowds, empty stands in St. Louis in an unusual fashion in August and really before this ran started in September. And Schilt, I think, has been seen as a representative or reflective of that. He has been, therefore, however, he has rebounded accordingly when they've gotten on this hot streak, just as Moseley Lock and Gersh and the rest of the front office has. And what he's been saying all year that everyone has tuned him out on has started to come true. And I do not think it's because he is some brilliant soothsayer. One of the really nice things,

one of the many, many nice things about Adam Wainwright this year is, have you ever heard Wainwright do an interview during a game? He clearly feels like a less evolution-resistant John Smoltz. Like, he's very fun. Like, he'd make a great,

I think he'd be a great broadcaster someday because he's very likable and kind of fun and very interesting. And when they kind of started this run, Wainwright did this interview saying, listen, we know we haven't been very good this year. We know we've been very frustrating. Hang with us.

We think we've got it figured it out now. And it was such a relief because Schilt all year had been like, we're almost there. We're going to get there. And so now that they've actually gotten there, he, that blow up that he had with the infield fly, he's actually had a few of those this year. And they've always felt kind of hollow. There was a thing with Nick Castaneda and his bat.

He thought his bat was corked in one of the Reds games. And it felt like just a dumb gimmick. It felt like Tony La Russa Xeroxed four or five times until it was degraded. Like in that Michael Keaton movie, Multiplicity, where the sixth Michael Keaton keeps walking into walls. It was kind of a dumb... It really felt like a guy trying to

quote, fire up his team in a way that was very kind of transparent to everyone. But now, when you've won 16 games in a row and you have those fired up moments, you're like, yeah, he's got the passion of the team. So I think it speaks a little bit to, there's never been a stupid manager that's been on a 17 game win streak. And I don't think that he was as bad. I don't think he's, I don't think he's as bad as I think some, some people have

thought during some past post seasons, but I do think that he, I wouldn't credit him much, much as I wouldn't blame him for the early stuff. Seems like the collective national response to the Cardinals reeling off these wins has been a deep sigh, a sense of resignation, maybe frustration, maybe fatalism about the Cardinals just being the team of destiny now. So I know that you have been responding to the response to the Cardinals or trying your best not to over several years since the Cardinals kind of became the punching bag for every other baseball fan base. But what have you made of the lack of joy that has accompanied seemingly the Cardinals just leaving every other nl wild card contender in

their dust i mean listen i think the podgers are fun too like i'm pro podgers come on like i'm with it i know everybody won the podgers it would be great i get it i do think some of that i'll put it this way the criticisms that people have often about the cardinals and their fans i would generally argue could be leveled at a lot almost every fan base and the demographics of their fans, I would generally argue could be leveled at a lot, almost every fan base and the demographics of their fans in a general sense of the Cardinals kind of like for a variety of reasons, kind of take a hit for that. I would say that sometimes they deserve, but also I would argue is not dramatically different than your average kind of baseball fan.

Not the listeners to this podcast, of course, but I think you know what I mean. And so, you know, I think there's an element of that. I also would say that, like, part of it has always been La Russa and just, like, general. Like, let's not forget that, like, for, like, three weeks of this season, the national emergency of baseball was Tony La Russa. Like, it feels like we've kind of – because the AL Central race hasn't been closed, people have kind of moved on from that. But, like, La Russa gets people very, very dialed up. And he will always, of course, be represented, be a representative of the Cardinals in that way.

But I also think that I feel like it misses something because this is so, like, this is so different than Daniel Descalso and Pete Cosma out of nowhere, like taking down a very fun and very likable Nationals team, which I've always thought was part of it too, is, you know, the Cardinals had, the Cardinals, when they kind of went on their postseason run, were beating some really likable teams,

whether they were the Nationals or the Pirates or the Brewers, like highlight teams from those kind of franchises. Like, people loved that Pirates team in 13, and people loved that Brewers team in 11, and loved that Mets team in 06. So I think that there's, and that Nationals team in 12. So I think there's an element of that to it that people were just like, oh,

this is your, this seemed like Jeff Weaver. I mean, come on. So I get it. I totally, I totally get that. I do think it misses something kind of interesting about this team.

It's this team is a very different personality that it's hard to imagine Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter tolerating Harrison Bader. And like, like they were like, he would be considered like this, this flake and this weird, and they would try to tamp him down and tell like that, the, the old Cardinals idea that you play the game the right way. That's not how the Cardinals play right now. That's not how Bader plays.

That's not how O'Neill plays. That's not how Arenado plays. There's a lot of like fun personalities on this team that I think are very different than what people think of when they think of the Cardinals not that it matters I totally understand but I'm just saying that like I would argue this team has a different and more interesting personality than perhaps uh some Cardinals teams in the past you mentioned like the sort of general state of fandom and I I have a question you have to help, Will, because see the team that I theoretically like best hasn't been in the postseason since I was in high school.

Then maybe they're trying to change that right now. And so I'm curious in a situation like this where you didn't really expect to get to October and then you rattle off 17 wins and you're in a playoff spot. When you look back on this season is that gonna be enough for you do you think like do you feel like everything that comes after this is sort of gravy i'm gonna ask you to like predict what you think will actually happen in this wild card game at some point here but have they already sufficiently exceeded your expectations such that you will look back on this season of cardinals baseball and be like, hey, we had a good run. This was a success.

Or will you be surly if they don't manage to dethrone one of the 100-win teams in the West? No, it's definitely the former. They've shown proof of concept here. And I think, you know, it's funny. At the beginning, when we first started talking, I was talking about that press conference that the Cardinals had in 2019,

where you remember how the Cardinals scored. Like, I think the Cardinals scored, let me check paragraphs, negative 400 runs in that national series. That's what Mac told me. So they scored negative 400 runs in that national series. It was miserable to watch. It was terrible baseball.

They didn't deserve to beat the Braves. That was not a good NL Central. The Cardinals wanted congratulations for sneaking into an NLCS that they were not competitive in and probably shouldn't have been in the first place. And we're playing the same kind of tired baseball that frankly people were getting kind of sick of. This is different. Like this, like, I'm sorry,

but like this is what they claimed they could be all year. And at a certain level, I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt that I think that if they lose, if Cardinals lose in the wildcard, they're not going to be favored to any stretch of the imagination,

no matter who they play. This has been special. It's hard. I don't think there's a lot of people, I guess, I guess there's some Cleveland fans and some A's fans that know this feeling, but like what, like I've never had this feeling before, of what happens when my team wins every single day for like three weeks. Like it is a transcendent thing,

particularly to have it happen to clinch a while to catch a playoff spot with the team that you had mostly written off and have the team become what they wanted. I think there's a lot of, I think now when you look at that outfield and you kind of look at some of the young pitches come up, Nolan Gorman is coming up. The stuff that the front office has been arguing for, you can see it now in a way that you couldn't see it before. So obviously you want them to, I would like it.

I think I'm going to go up and go ahead and stay up and watch all the baseball Cardinals postseason games anyway. But if they fall short, yeah, I think it's hard. You're going to look back, when they look back at this 2021 season, it's going to be about this run and not just about the wins, but just how fun it was. They just went in, they went into Milwaukee, they've probably been fighting

with Milwaukee and the Cubs for like the last decade, half decade, decade, and they just went in and wiped them out. Four games on the road and four games in Wrigley. And just to do that

and wiped out the Padres, the team that beat them in the playoffs last year. And to see Bader and O'Neal and just the joy that everybody's having. Paul Goldschmidt has smiled at least three times during the streak. It has been really kind of amazing.

To see Adam Wainwright have this vintage year has been kind of wonderful. There's no question, no matter what happens in the playoffs, it's easy to say that because the Cardinals have won the 11 World Series. And obviously, there's a little bit of fat and happy notion to it. But I also think we're not the Yankees. I mean, at a certain level, there is so much joy to have been had from this streak that you're not going to ruin it by being like, oh, well, Scherzer shut him down. Why did I even watch this season? We're always going to have what happened in September. Yeah. If the Cardinals had been a great team prior to the streak and then they had this streak, still would have been fun, but it wouldn't have been as unexpected. And the unexpected is always even better when it's a pleasant surprise. And so the Cardinals were, I think, 71 and 69 and had been outscored on the season before the streak started. And so no one saw this coming, of course. And of course, it's coincided with all of their direct rivals losing a lot.

So the Padres, the Reds, the Phillies, the Mets. All the Reds. All the Reds. For the record, for the record, like one thing, listen, I love sports. I like sports. I like happy sports. I'm not one of those fans that boos

or likes to like, like, like even, I actually, if you can believe this, have a ton of friends that are Cubs fans and we love each other. We're so close. But the Reds, like, like, like even, I actually, if you can believe this, have a ton of friends that are Cubs fans and we love each other. We're so close. But the Reds, like, like the Reds,

like the great joke about the Reds is like, the Reds and their fans are very big, like, like, they're very loud people who have literally

never won anything. And so, for the Reds and Cardinals have had like a fun little rivalry this year. There's been a lot of satisfaction. There's been no satisfaction in watching the Padres fall off.

People like the Padres. No satisfaction in the Mets. But watching the Reds fall off, I will confess, has been pleasant. I think those four teams since the Cardinals started their streak are a combined 24 and 39. In some cases, because the Cardinals beat those teams during that streak. But also, they've just been bad otherwise. And so it would be different if this were like the Dodgers. You know, the Dodgers have been hot, but they can't gain a game on the Giants because the

Giants win every day too. So if one of these other teams that had been ahead of the Cardinals in the wildcard race went 14-3 or something over this 17-game winning streak, then that might have not been enough. But the fact that the Cardinals have surged while everyone else has completely collapsed or at least has not played nearly as well as the Cardinals, because the Phillies have played pretty decently too, that must have enhanced it because you're just winning going away at this point. It's a new thing.

It was a weird, if you had told me of all the possibilities, even at the beginning of September of how this September was going to go the idea that they'd be clinching a playoff spot with like five six days left in the season is absurd like there was no way like the Brewers have won the NL Central you know weeks ago and it really felt even if

they were going to be able to stay in the wild card race you know that you were never going to get it early to any stretch so to have that happen to have there be like in the middle of the again everyone knows what happened in the game tonight but the cardinals clinched last night this is usually the game where like matt carpenter catches right like in shorts or something like they just won there everyone's been shooting champagne all over the place or bud light it's very depressing to watch by the way they just like use aluminum

bottles of bud light to spray at people that's not what you're supposed to do when you celebrate anyway the point is is that it's very strange to have the streak happen still going on in the ritualistic day after you celebrated everybody's hungover game uh that's not something anyone could have possibly anticipated it's a new cardinal fan like listen i know this is going to make everybody really happy when i say this but but the Cardinals have had all sorts of different kinds of interesting success. Like when the Cardinals won in 06, at the time, I did not want to hear any of that 83 win stuff. I was like, listen, you guys could have won.

You didn't. This is ours. We haven't, the Cardinals had not won one since 82. That was like, that's a long time. And so, and I, I protected that title fiercely until 11 happened. I was like, oh yeah, six was a fluke. That totally wasn't real at all. So like you've, you've, you've had all this kind of like great success. You had pools throughout his prime. This is a new thing. The Cardinals haven't had this before. And it is a, it's a, it's a really kind of a, it's a, it's a, it's a

cool thing. I'm not going to lie to you. I don't want to overstate this but 17 hopefully 18 game win streaks i recommend them they are they are very good for the soul so say the cardinals do make a deep run here make the case for the cardinals being fun and you kind of already have you've touched on this but even last week and i don't bear any ill will toward the cardinals but even when we did our ranking of fun playoff teams on the podcast last week, I still had the Cardinals at the bottom of my list. Just no antipathy toward them. It's just maybe not quite as compelling as some other teams to me, or they've been there so much, even if it's a different group of guys. But make the case that at least for a neutral fan,

they should not be upset to see the Cardinals plow through whoever wins the first NL wildcard and make a run beyond that. I feel like we haven't won Ben Lindbergh yet, but I do feel like the ice is cracking a little bit. Like, for crying out loud, Chris Thompson, a defector, wrote a defector,

you know, people that started out hating the Cardinals as a joke because of me and then like, oh no, we legitimately hate those people those people hate that team and then kind of followed uh back of course the old uh i don't know what the name of the site they did before then but it was popular before it died but uh the point is is that they uh they have even kind of like warmed up to this team a little bit and so much is because this is what you want you want like tyler o'neill again i know we've all talked about this much but it really should not be overstated enough like not only is his that was his dad mr canada o'neill's bigger

like o'neill is huge and also my favorite thing about o'neill he has a little bit of an otani thing where you're like wow what an incredible physical specimen oh also he's faster than everyone else like it's like it's an extra thing that he's got his incredible fielder bainer is just this joyous thing. The win they had on Saturday where they came back against the Cubs was all just Bader wrecking guys in the way that if you love

the old 80s baseball, even as someone that grew up on that baseball, I like baseball more now. Sorry. It's all just in that way. But if you love that kind of stealing bases, being aggressive on the base pass, great diving defensive plays, Bader is your guy.

And his hair is really long. He's from upstate New York. He's from the same town as Sarah Lawrence. He did not go to school there. He went to Florida. He looks a lot more like he went to Florida. But like, you know, there is a lot, there's joy in those guys.

And there's, listen, nevermind. Okay, Goldschmidt isn't that much fun, but like Arenado is. Like, how do you not like Nolan Arenado? Everybody loves Nolan Arenado. And then he came to the Cardinals, like, typical Cardinal. No, like, it's Nolan Arenado.

Like, he's so fun. We love Nolan Arenado. And then he got to St. Louis, and they're like, oh, there he goes again with his devil magic. Like, come on, it's Nolan Arenado. And, you know, and I'm not going to try to talk people into Wainwright, but like, you know, it's Adam, like what he's doing this year is really just kind of crazy. And it has been an absolute joy to watch. He's a really fun guy off the field as well. So Wainwright's a tougher sell, I'll grant, but certainly there's a lot of fun personalities on this team. They're playing the game with a joy that is not typically associated with the Cardinals. And if you kind of hated the Cardinals

because you, I would argue, not entirely fairly credited them with being the play the baseball the right way people. There are tons of players that the Cardinals don't have that thing now. They don't. Like the Bader is constantly showing guys up and flipping bats and going nuts.

And O'Neal is as well. And it's fun and nobody cares and everybody enjoys it. If the Cardinals were all wearing Rays uniforms or Padres uniforms, I truly believe that people would love them. But I understand if we have turned people off to Nolan freaking Arenado, there is no way that,

that we're going to be able to talk people into going high on the playoff likability rankings list. All right. Well, we're going to be able to talk people into uh going high on the playoff likability rankings list all right well we're gonna make you make a prediction how long do you think the fun will last assuming that we do concede that it is fun thank you for that that through gritted teeth concession no we're talking how long the last how long the the winning streak will last or are we talking about how long they will make in the playoffs let's do both okay the winning streak will last or are we talking about how long they will make in the playoffs? Let's do both. The winning streak is going to last until Ben's child is 46. I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to remind you that there's a running clock on this conversation. I would say that streak-wise, it feels like it's hard to imagine them getting through this Brewer series. The Brewers are really, really good. I know that Adamas is hurt, and they're not really at full strength right now,

but the Brewers are still really good. The Cardinals have been getting away with a lot with the Brewers, and generally if the Brewers get a 3-1 lead in the seventh, it's over. So they haven't had that situation in any of these games this week. It feels like it's going to happen at some point. I think the Cardinals are going to lose to Max Scherzer in the Dodgers in the wildcard game. I think it's going to happen. Wainwright has actually not been as sharp

in his last four or five starts. He's still obviously the wildcard starter. Seeing him navigate that Dodgers lineup in a way where the Cardinals can score enough off Scherzer to make up for it, it's hard to see. But you know what else is hard to see? 17, hopefully 18 game winning streaks. It's hard to see, but you know what else is hard to see? 17, hopefully 18 game winning streaks. It's hard to imagine that happening either. So who knows? Everything's on

the table at this point. Well, I guess they can only tie Cleveland's record for the longest winning streak because the season will end, not because they will lose necessarily. It's going to be a big opening day next week. Yeah. Well, I am glad that we did this. And as you were saying before we recorded, we initially were planning to record later in the day. And that would have been that. So I'm glad that we moved this up a bit. And I will always remember. Are we done?

Are we done? I was actually kind of hoping we'd go for like a five or six more hours. I have so many more thoughts. Oh, my gosh. Let me tell you about what's been key to Hap's success. Okay, now. Yeah, I know you have a meeting with your editor and I also have some things to do, it seems.

You have a meeting with your future and perpetual editor from now on. Yes, yeah. I will always remember September 29th, 2021, the day I talked to Will Leach on the podcast about the Cardinals. That is, I think, what will stand out about this day. And we recommend that you follow Will on Twitter, William F. Leach. And you can hear him talk about the Cardinals all the time on the podcast Seeing Red.

Not to be confused with Seeing Red, the true crime podcast. Of course, there is a true crime podcast with that name. I'm sure there's a true crime podcast called Effectively Wild out there. Pick a name. There is a true crime podcast. But Seeing Red is the one you want for Will. And subscribe to his Substack, which is wonderful as well. WilliamFLeach.substack.com.

You can find all of his bylines every week in there. And read his book, his most recent book, How Lucky, which, Will, I don't think I told you, but I loved it. It was wonderful. Oh, thank you. Thank you. My wife loved it as well. We both read it back to back and discussed it, and it was great. And I know that you are hard at work on the next novel, so we will look forward to that too.

Thank you very much. And so what else is going on? Is everything good? Not too much. Ben, congratulations congratulations i'm very excited for you i literally this is the last conversation you will remember for a very long time so uh so have a good one and uh any writing that you produce during the playoffs i'm just gonna know like oh that was hallucinated all right all right keep up the great work man congratulations bye meg i don't mean to ignore you in the conversation that's okay mine is way All right. Keep up the great work, Meg. Congratulations. Bye, Meg.

I don't mean to ignore you in the conversation. That's okay. Mine is way less exciting. He has a lot going on. I'm going to go to the gym later. Okay. Be safe. Okay.

That will do it for today. I meant to mention, by the way, Will's book is not a baseball book in the classic sense, but it is a baseball book by the effectively wild definition in that baseball is mentioned. The Cardinals, of course, are mentioned. The word Cardinals is in the book. It would not be a book by Will Leach if that were not the case. Go check it out. All right, gonna go have a baby now. Wish me well. I will provide updates in one medium or another. Perhaps you will hear me soon. Perhaps you will not hear me very soon. But the podcast will keep coming in the usual feed and on something resembling the usual schedule. Although, give Meg a little leeway with that, just because she will be editing an enormous quantity of writing over the next month in addition to hosting this podcast.

Spotify, which owns The Ringer, has a very generous paternity leave. The podcast does not have an official paternity leave exactly. It's one of the strange things about hosting a podcast with one or two people is that when you leave, there isn't exactly a succession plan in place. But in this case, there is. Thank you to Meg for filling in as much as necessary. And thanks in advance to all of you for any well wishes. And there may still be some writing coming from me,

but I will probably be sitting out the playoffs to some extent, both writing and podcasting-wise, so I'll just get to enjoy it as a fan, which will be fun. And it will be weird for me not to weigh in, but that's always a tough time to talk and to podcast anyway, what with the schedule and the shelf life of responding to any specific game. You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild. The following five listeners have already signed up and pledged some small You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectivelywild. The following five listeners have already signed up and pledged some small monthly amount to help keep the podcast going, get themselves access to some perks, and help keep the podcast ad-free.

John Cho, Jameesh Mehta, Mike Nolte, Michelle Barone, and Henry Thornton. Thanks to all of you. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectivelywild. You can rate, review, and subscribe to Effectively Wild on iTunes and Spotify and other podcast platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me and Meg coming. I'll still see him probably at podcast at fancrafts.com. Thanks to Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance. And thanks to all of you for your support. I've gone through many life changes while hosting this podcast. Changing jobs, getting married, now having a daughter. Effectively Wild has kind of been a constant throughout all of that, and I appreciate it. Enjoy the playoffs, and I will talk to you sometime soon-ish. Minutes can make memories That last a lifetime

I distort my minutes To beauty and there's something in them