Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2043: A Fool Rushes in Where Angelos Treads

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about the Tim Anderson–José Ramírez fight and White Sox clubhouse culture, John Angelos benching Orioles broadcaster Kevin Brown, the Angels’ post-deadline slump (and the Mariners’ rise), the return of Gary Sánchez‘s power bat, updates on the MLB injury rate, the pitch clock, and the zombie runner, Charlie Culberson’s re-reunion […]

Hello and welcome to episode 2043 of Effectively Wild, a Fangraphs baseball podcast brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg Rowley of Fangraphs and I'm joined as always by Ben Lindberg of The Ringer. Ben, how are you? I'm doing great. I haven't punched anyone, been punched by anyone, suspended anyone, been suspended by anyone over the past several days. So I'm ahead of the game here. You know, I think we'll take these in turn turn what a few days it's been since we last spoken not a lot of um covering oneself in glory as the expression goes uh and it has it has ranged from specific players to the owners of teams to you know sorry to say ben you're los angeles

angels although no no fighting has been involved so far as I know. No, they've put up very little fight. Oh, yeah. Well done. What a nice little transition there. Yeah, it's been a couple of days, you know. Sure has. Where shall we start? Do you want to start with the tim anderson jose ramirez of it might as well because we left off last time talking about a brawl involving the chicago white socks and then not long after that conversation there was another one that was

odd timing yeah and i've seen some truthers come out of the woodwork on this one too we could talk about that with the actual fight that happened here, because we talked about the 30th anniversary of Nolan Ryan v. Ventura, and then we got Jose Ramirez v. Tim Anderson on Saturday. Didn't end well for Anderson, who probably bore the brunt of that even worse than Robin Ventura did, I suppose. But man, usually when you hear that there's been a baseball brawl, a fracas of some sort, you go and watch and you're expecting a baseball brouhaha, right? Where it's like by baseball standards, it's something, you know, it's a rhubarb, but it's not an actual fight. Very rarely do you see a player actually put up his dukes like an old-timey boxer. It's like, you watch that one, it's like, oh, this was actually a brawl because not that many other people got involved. There were people involved. I mean, there were people sort of involved.

I guess there was Kopech kind of got involved and maybe Klasse did something. There were some other fines and suspensions levied. But this was really a title bout. There were two guys on the card pretty much here. two guys on the card pretty much here well i will say i am about to reveal how very little i know about fighting sports when i say this but you know there's like the main events um but there were smaller ancillary fights that continued after that right like there was a maybe a brawl for describing the secondary fights is the wrong word um a dust-up, a coach's dust-up, a minor melee, a lifting of Tim Anderson clean off the ground by Andrew Vaughn, not in the Eloy Jimenez is involved in, it's probably not going to go great for him. You know, I don't want to make light of it. It seems like, how would I put this? I don't know Tim Anderson, but he, from a distance, seems to be going through some stuff.

Yes. And it is manifesting in ways that I'm sure aren't particularly good for him and don't seem to always be great for other people. So that's a more serious thing. I don't want to be overly light about it. And boy, an email computer-based job, you know. And if I were being partially restrained by Michael Kopech, I don't know that I would even have the aim to land the punch that Ramirez did, let alone deliver it with the force that he seems to be able to muster. So, like, that was sure something. Yeah. That's why I mentioned the truthers who came out about this one. Now, no one is arguing that Tim Anderson got the best of this fight between the two of them. I don't know how anyone, even the most rabid of Tim Anderson fans, I think it would be hard to make that case.

It would be a radical interpretation of the text. To make that case would be a radical interpretation of the text. However, I have seen people who've studied the footage and have concluded that if you go by process over results, that perhaps the actual result here favored Ramirez in a way that the technique did not. Sure. Anderson, you know, he squares up and he throws some punches that have some real force behind them. And Ramirez kind of ducked them. They were glancing blows at worst or at best, depending on your perspective. And then as he was getting headlocked and wrestled away and was kind of falling over, he sort of swung wildly. It was a windmill kind of punch.

And it landed just right on Anderson's jaw, and that was lights out for him. That just took him down. I've seen people suggest, though, that, you know, sometimes you're in a fight, and someone's just swinging wildly and just windmilling or throwing some haymaker, and it can connect just by luck, you know, like your Babbitt is in your favor in that particular confrontation. And maybe you don't even have the technique. Maybe it's your lack of technique that helps you. Your opponent isn't prepared or you just wildly land one. And that takes care of business.

But it's probably not repeatable. So I don't know. I don't know about their respective fighting strengths and experience. I mean, before the punches started to be thrown, Anderson looked like he knew what he was doing or thought he knew what he was doing. He seemed pretty confident at the outset of that fight. And so the fact that he got taken down by this sort of off-balance, falling over, just wild swing, perhaps this was like a lower percentile

outcome for him of how this fight could have gone if you were to have them fight many, many times, which we should not do to determine an answer to this question. But that was the interpretation I saw in some quarters, that maybe Ramirez got a little lucky here landing that blow and having it connect the way it did. But no one is suggesting that it did not land or that it did not have the effect that it clearly had or that Anderson somehow made up for it later the way that people argue that actually Ventura took the punches and then he had Ryan in a headlock. No, there was no second part to the fight. It seemed as if he was trying to get back in the fray at one point. And then again, Andrew Vaughn just picked him up and moved him.

He was like, no, no, we are not doing that anymore. We are done doing that. I am going to leverage my own strength to lift you and move you instead. strength to lift you and move you instead. And so I think that that was, you know, we maybe learned something about Andrew Vaughn being a good teammate in that moment. Yeah, like, sure, from a technique, from a process perspective, maybe not what you would show to fighting students, boxing students, waterworks, you know, I don't know what they I'm sure there's a rich tapestry of language that we apply to the fighting sports.

And I know very few of those words. Yeah. And Tom Hamilton, of course, Guardian's radio broadcaster with the boxing inspired call. And Anderson square off. They're fighting. They're swinging. Down goes Anderson. Down goes Anderson. He talked about Nolan Ryan getting chanted and serenaded by the Texas crowd back in 1993. Same thing at Progressive Field, chanting Jose, Jose, Jose right after this fight. So your home fan base, the bloodlust is going to come out and they're going to support you

in that situation. Again, I would just like say that I wish that the ridiculousness of those moments would set in earlier. And maybe it does on average, which is why most quote unquote brawls that we see in baseball are really just like

pairs of aggressive huggers, you know, like just like really hugging each other in a hard way. And I'm sure at some point they're like, well, I'm at work, you know, like I'm just at my job. I have a pension and like I get direct deposit and I'm doing this like as a grown person. Now, here's one thing that we can just unequivocally enjoy the aesthetic of, which is, and I think I've made this point perhaps before, the argument for bullpens being stacked and having one set of stairs in and out is that you have like the brawling quote-unquote brawling bullpens having to exit use the same means of egress to to come into the fray together and that's just delightful because it's like there there is an order right there's a a turn taking that must occur and that

is so you know civilized and and polite and then they're doing it so that they can stand around and like i don't know cheer their teammates fighting each other so that part we can enjoy unequivocally the part we can't enjoy is like you know this seems like a seems like a thing that like grown people should be able to move past and um and seems like the White Sox are kind of a mess as an org, and that has extended beyond whatever Anderson is sort of going through, just to the org more generally. So that's not good, but the bullpens having to come out together, that's funny.

That's a funny thing. Yeah, and the impetus for the fight is, best we can tell, Anderson has not addressed it yet, right, with reporters. Although he tweeted a whole bunch of times and some kind of cryptic tweets and some mildly threatening tweets that he then deleted. And he also went back and deleted some other tweets that people had resurfaced because they were somewhat fighting related and people were using that to dunk on him. Right. So the impetus, it seems, based on Ramirez's comments and Ramirez, not the excitable sort, not someone who seems to be prone to. He's a pretty stoic guy. Yeah. He had never been ejected from a game before. So it was somewhat notable that he was the one on the other end of this. And he said that it was because Anderson had applied overly hard tags on him and others and that Ramirez had brought this up with him previously.

incident in, I think, the previous game where Anderson had pushed a runner's hand off of second base. The runner had slid in and Anderson had just pushed it off the base. Basically, this was Brian Rocchio of the Guardians. And then there was a silly review that kind of the initial call was correct. And then there was a review that kind of overturned the correct call on a technicality. It was a strange sort of situation. And granted, you have to keep your glove on there for a while now in the replay era because you take your hand off that bag for a second as you're sliding and your momentum carries you, then that can be an out. But this was a case where Anderson appeared to have supplied some of that force himself. It was not supplied by the runner.

And Ramirez said that Anderson basically said, let's fight or I want to fight or something. We have only gotten one side of this thus far. So that was why it happened. And at least as best we can tell. But as you said, it seems like there's just a lot going on with Anderson. Obviously, the White Sox suck, right? And it sounds like, and we can talk about the subsequent news or rumors or reporting that surfaced, but seems like just not the greatest environment in that clubhouse these days. And Anderson has struggled himself. He has been the worst qualified hitter in baseball this year by WRC Plus. And then there have been

personal issues in Anderson's life that he's talked about. So all of that, one would imagine coming to a head here, probably, you know, where who knows how all of those things are contributing to the decision to just fight at that moment, but probably a complicated cocktail that is going into that decision. Yeah, I think that, you know, we can say like the outcome here and the decision was bad and poorly made and also acknowledge that like it seems like there's a lot of stuff going on there unrelated to like the particular tags he was playing in this series or Jose Ramirez or anything. But, you know, when you have that stuff operating in the background and then you're in, you know, a series against a division rival in a season where you're playing very poorly and your team is playing very poorly. And it seems like there is some organizational dysfunction there that is not, that can't be laid at Tim Anderson's feet. Tim Anderson's feet, but that certainly, I imagine, is affecting his experience of the season and his teammates that, you know, you put all that stuff together and it can be unfortunately explosive and you want and need cooler heads to prevail, but they don't always. And then the result of that is you get knocked out or knocked down rather, you know. I know enough about fighting

sports to know that those are different, Ben. Those are different outcomes. But you get knocked down and then you get suspended and it's not a good situation for anybody. So yeah, White Sox, what a mess. Yeah, six games for Anderson, three games for Ramirez.

And yes, in the wake of that, then Keenan Middleton, who's now on the Yankees where things are just going great, he came out and talked about his time with the White Sox and sort of ripped the organization. We came in with no rules. I don't know how you police the culture if there are no rules or guidelines to follow because everyone is doing their own thing. How do you say anything about it? Because there are no rules. You have rookies sleeping in the bullpen during the game. You have guys missing meetings. You have guys missing pitcher fielding practices. And there are no consequences for any of this stuff. And various other sources in Jesse Rogers' ESPN report confirmed other aspects of what Middleton said. And then Rogers elaborated on some other claims and talked about various players' work ethic. And then there was another report by a White Sox radio guy about Anderson taking another blow,

which was subsequently denied. But this was an allegation that Yasmany Grandal had not wanted to play and wasn't in the lineup the day before the All-Star break and that Anderson had called him on it. And then Grandal walked over and slapped Anderson. This seems to be, if it actually happened, a case where Anderson was the righteous one but still ended up taking a blow. But Grandal denied this subsequently. Lance Lynn, who is also not with the White Sox anymore, he then kind of corroborated Middleton's account and said, I was there a lot longer than key was he is not wrong

i don't know at one point it becomes a reflection on the players themselves like if you're lance lynn you're like a veteran aren't you a clubhouse leader like is that on you if if the clubhouse culture is awry i don't know anyway r Hahn basically said, oh yeah, we've addressed all this. You know, he's talked about how they've made some moves and they've changed some things and they're trying to address the cultural problem in the clubhouse. But clearly we need Tony La Russa back in there.

Oh, geez. He was holding things together the whole time. Anyway. He certainly would enforce a culture. Oh, geez. chicken and the egg team is not playing well. Is the team not playing well because of this dysfunction? Well, they're on a little winning streak right now amidst all of this that's happening. Or is it that the team is losing, the team is disappointing? And so that's why all of this is boiling over. And I usually lean toward the latter, but it could be a bit of both. Who knows? I think that there's like not an infinite number but

a lot of different combinations of good and bad culture and success and suck on the field you know and those you know we have seen teams where the guys seem to really like each other and they've been bad and we've seen teams where after they win a World Series, we find out that some of them didn't like each other in a really active way, you know, more than just everybody has an experience at work sometimes where they're like annoyed by a coworker and they're great. So I think that there are a lot of different ways that you can kind of Tetris those things together. And I think you're right that when you're a competitive athlete, when you're good enough at baseball to be a pro baseball player, I imagine that you take the success or failure of your team incredibly personally on average. I'm sure there are exceptions to that, but like on average, I bet this stuff feels really personal for these guys. It feels personal for them, even if they're playing well on a team that isn't. And so I imagine it has to be even more intense when you are having a bad season yourself and the team is going nowhere, even in an easy division.

I take my job too personally. And like nobody, like far fewer people care about my job performance than baseball fans care about baseball players' performances. So I can't imagine that it helps, you know, even if the vibes are good and you have a strong culture when things are as bad as they are with the White Sox right now, like it's going to have an effect. That's part of why I think teams want to buttress clubhouse culture in advance of a season, right? Like why they try to have clubhouse leaders, why they try to have folks who can like help the guys gel even in the face of adversity, because they know that it's going to come. might not be as bad as what chicago's dealing with right now but it's going to come in a season for at least a stretch even if you end up going to the postseason even if you end up

winning the world series like even world series winning clubs have stretches where they're like wow we're just not playing very well right now so it's uh it seems like things aren't good there and i i think it's a tricky thing to get right even when you have you know even when you have a really strong group of characters and and a a group of vets who can kind of set a even I don't even know if positive is quite the the right word but like productive tone right because you have to be able to steer out of skids like that so yeah that's a long way of me saying I don't know what it's like in there but it doesn't seem great no it definitely doesn't and Middleton this was his first year with the White Sox. Doesn't sound like he's happy to have moved on, but he said, for whatever it's worth, that the issues predated his arrival, that when he got to spring training, he heard a lot of the same stuff was happening last year. It's happening again. They don't tell you not to miss practice. They don't tell you not to miss meetings. If it happens, it's just okay. He went on in that vein for a while. I think the silliest thing about all of this maybe was that Michael Kopech's comment,

we're not going to be bullied by a team that's playing under 500. Sir. Like, first of all, I mean, I guess they weren't bullied. If, you know, if we're using Anderson as a proxy for how the team performed here, then it was not great. But, OK, you're standing up for something. But bullied by a team that's playing under 500. So the fact that the Guardians are under 500 means that you're not going to take it from them, even though you are way further under 500 than the guardians are you're a way worse team way less successful than they are so the fact that they're not great either i don't know like if this were the first place twins would they have just been like all right

well yeah good point you guys yeah i guess they've earned it yeah like but please feel free to bully us. You are above 500, so it's okay. You know, I don't know. My reaction was obviously to go, sir. But I don't know. Maybe we're unfair in these moments to guys. Unfair is maybe the wrong word. But, like, would we be perfectly poised in the way we talk about that kind of failure? I think you're kind of just grasping for anything, you know,

when you're in that spot, but sir, like, sir, come on, come on. So shall we transition to the other person who hasn't covered himself in glory the past few days? I mean, sure. Yeah, let's do it. Cause boy because boy i got some i got things to say ben i was taking a twitter break i was like i'm gonna take a little little hiatus from from twitter because i don't know you're just such a less anxious person i tell you these stories and i feel like you're like yeah make sure i understand what that's like and then you're like what is she talking about but you know how um you know how like gases expand to fill the space they're in?

Is that right? Is my memory of high school correct? So like, I think anxiety functions largely the same way, at least it does for me. And so, you know, you have this like really busy stretch of you got to get through all your draft coverage and then you got to do the trade value series and then you got to do the deadline and and what will happen for me personally i'm not trying to tell other people how to use social media but like for me i will get done with this like big monumental stretch of work stuff and then i have this anxiety void you know because i'm not i'm not stressed about work in the same way that i was last week this time last week so much more stressed ben remember this time last week when it was the deadline

yeah yeah that was a week that was only a week ago it feels like 10 000 years but so anyway what i've noticed about myself is that like uh in the wake of that i should take a little break from from like twitter or i haven't had the same experience of blue ski uh because it's like way more mellow over there but you know like why let that dumb useless gas fill the space right so i was gonna take a little twitter break you know preemptively because there are some annoying people on there do i need them to dictate my mood no i sure don't but then i had to do some tweets ben i had to be i had to do some i had to do some tweets because um well baltimore orioles they made some choices ben they made some active choices i mean not all of them the orioles

is like such a broad and amorphous term but it would appear that the orioles ownership took offense to kevin brown who's one of their broadcasters who i i've quite enjoyed you know with the orioles being good i've watched a lot more of the orioles this year uh than i have in the last couple and so i've gotten to like, get to know Kevin Brown as a broadcaster. I don't know him personally, but like have really enjoyed him in the booth. I think he's good. And I had noticed that like he hadn't been around for a couple of days, it seemed. And I was like, I don't know what that's about. Maybe he's on vacation. Maybe he's under the weather. Maybe he's attending to family business. No, no, Ben.

He seems to have been proactively pulled from the air for noting that the Orioles, who used to be bad, used to be bad against the Tampa Bay Rays. But now the Orioles, who are good, have been good against the Tampa Bay Rays in this season. And you're like, surely there's more to the story. And maybe there is more going on here. But what we have seen reported so far is that a segment aired in pregame before they were playing Tampa in the Trop. And the details that were provided in that segment, outlining the record that the Orioles have had in Tropicana the last couple of years. They were in

the game notes that are circulated by PR staff before every game. Your team's PR staff will send out a little missive to the reporters to be like, here's some stuff about our upcoming series and tonight's starter and hitters over the last 10 games.

And they are littered with the funnest fun facts generally, which is fine. I get the purpose of the project, right? These same sort of records relative to this year and last year and whatnot were in those notes. And then ownership got pissy about it and i don't know if they have formally suspended um kevin they haven't yeah but he has he has not been on the air but for um a radio broadcast that he did because of a kerfuffle with a different broadcaster's wardrobe. Yes. We can get into that in a second. And I guess, Ben, I have laid out some of the facts.

Have I missed any important facts in that description? No, I don't think so. We could play the clip of what he said, and everyone will hear it and think, okay, and then what? Do it. Spin it up. Brandon Hyde has felt like this has been maybe the toughest ballpark to play in, but the Orioles have a chance to do something special today. They've already clinched at least a split in the series,

winning two of the first three, and they could pick up a series win behind Tyler Wells today. It's been a minute. The Orioles split a two-gamer with the Rays in June. They had lost their last 15 series here at Tropicana Field. You have to go back to when our now colleague Brad Brock

picked up the win in the series finale June 25, 2017. The last time the Orioles won a series here at St. Pete. Already got three and two at the top this year after winning three of 18 the previous three years combined. It is a stark

difference, Ben, and it is not a bad race team. It's not like all of a sudden the race became slouches in the American League East. They've led this division every day, but now two and the Orioles once again are back alone in first place. So we're getting to the part where he said the thing where he got himself taken off the air.

Nope, there is no part that should have. Are you sure, Ben? You don't need a minute to recover from that wild display? Really? Yeah. I mean, it's almost refreshing, a broadcaster taken off the air, not for a slur or something, but just pointing out that the Orioles have been bad at baseball for the past few years, specifically when playing in Tampa. Right. And not even saying so in a way that played up their ineptitude or said, by the way, they were so bad because the Orioles were tanking and my boss wasn't spending any

money on the roster. My cheapskate boss was being a cheapskate and his cheapskating made them bad at baseball. It is in service of highlighting how good they are now. Like the purpose of this segment is to say better days are here. We've done it. You know, like we are playing the Tampa Bay Rays hard in their home ballpark. That is the purpose of this segment. It's not about past ineptitude.

It's about present aptitude. And so it is, look, there are a lot of ways that we could describe the general vibe of this decision on the part of Angelos. It reminds me of like, have you ever encountered a TSA agent who clearly doesn't have power anywhere else in their life and decides to make your life difficult? Like, that's the vibe of this. And I marvel at the lack of strategy in this decision because, first of all, people are going to notice when the broadcaster hasn't been broadcasting because during the season like you know a guy a broadcaster might not call every game a team has like they do get nights off on occasion and generally there are a couple of you know permutations of the crew that might cycle

through in a season but like he hasn't been broadcasting for long enough that someone was going to be like, is Kevin okay? Like, where's Kevin? What's going on with Kevin? Right? So people are going to notice. That's the first thing. The second thing is no one would have remembered this segment if they hadn't done this.

Like I am much more likely to remember how bad the Orioles were against the Tampa Bay Rays in Tampa Bay. It's not in Tampa Bay. In Tampa. Excuse me. It's really St. Pete. But they're the ones that named the stupid team. So why do we always have to get corrected? Yes.

Yeah. Total strife and defect, though. Yeah. I could not have told you what their record was against the Rays on the road. Would not have been able to tell you. And so now I will be able to tell you because they made this decision. And the other thing they did that I just like, Kevin Brown is well liked. He's well liked by his peers. who get on mic for like two and a half, three hours every night and famously don't work for the Orioles. And so we saw the Yankees radio broadcast. We saw the Mets TV broadcast.

We saw the White Sox broadcast. We saw a bunch of other broadcasters either poking fun at this or expressing just frustration. The Mets broadcast like directly went at Orioles ownership. Like you have taken a guy everyone likes, you've put him in the penalty box for a stupid reason. And then you've invited basically all of his colleagues who are on air to a large audience to give you guff about it. What is wrong with you? Like, I just, I don't know. I don't know what it's like to be fabulously wealthy. I don't know what it's like to be wealthy enough to own a baseball team. I know that no one enjoys having,

you know, their sore spots poked. But when you inflicted the bruise on yourself you have to be like you know what he's right we were bad but now we're good and he didn't even make it about me so maybe i could stop being such an insecure little baby right yeah oh man yeah that's the thing i mean you likened it to some you know petty official who has their fiefdom and has no power and has to exert what small power that they do have. But John Angelos, he's got power. He's got riches, right? He doesn't have to sweat the small stuff. He's rich enough not to care about this. I mean, there's nothing to care about anyway. But like, even if there had been some actual slight here, he could take the high road. He could say, hey, I'm fabulously wealthy.

You know, nothing matters. I can just say I'm going to open up my books for reporters and answer all their questions about the finances of the team and then not do that. And there will be no consequences for that other than, you know, people will maybe mock me in an article, but that's it. I'm insulated from all that in terms of the actual practical effects of those things. So, yeah, it's just the thinnest skin for someone who you would think would not need to have such thin skin because

they're already insulated against the world by their fabulous wealth and inheritance and being born into the ownership of the Baltimore Orioles. So, yeah. Now, look, if they had suspended the graphics person for the pun tropical depression, then I would understand. But that is not what happened here. It is interesting that they took him off the air brown even though there was this whole graphics package which like clearly he was not going rogue here like this was the whole production crew i don't

know if it's just like well he's the face he was the one reading it i guess it could have been his suggestion to highlight these stats or something but it wasn't like he was out on an island here and everyone was saying no don, don't say this. No, you will anger our overlord. So I don't know if he was just the one who was chosen to be the fall guy or who knows. Maybe this will come out in greater detail at some point. But it's part of a pattern, obviously. And Awful Announcing reported this and then Britt Jerole followed up on it and added further detail at The Athletic.

And apparently the Orioles have a whole policy about their broadcasters wearing team apparel, even the team radio broadcasters too. And evidently there are some bans on mentioning former players, certain former players for the team. And this is a like father, like son situation, because as everyone has pointed out, Peter Angelos, John's dad, did essentially the same thing with John Miller. Just it didn't offer him a contract because he thought that Miller was too critical of the team. And there have been other incidents with PA people and other broadcasters, whether it's their criticism, their commentary, or just cheaping out. It's been one departure after another, Miller being the most notorious. But I guess on some level, I understand the impulse to the extent that I can put myself in the place of a mega rich baseball team owner who might be thinking to themselves, hey, these are my employees and this is my team.

And I don't want the team employees who work for me badmouthing me. Right. And so I want them to be pumping up the Orioles and talk about how great the Orioles are, if not how great I am specifically. We would want this to be sort of a house organ for the Orioles, just doing positive PR. But that always backfires, A, because you make yourself look silly when something like this comes out. And it seemed like there was a great risk that what happened here would come out, given the specifics, as you noted. But also, fans don't want to hear that. They don't want to just hear a steady stream of everything is wonderful. Like, Orioles fans, if they have been watching the team, they know that the team has not been good for a while.

And if they haven't been watching the team, it's probably because the team was not good for a while. And if they haven't been watching the team, it's probably because the team was not good for a while. So it's not like we have to pretend that the Orioles were great all along. So fans appreciate some honesty. I mean, telling it like it is. You know, I don't think most people really want a homer. And the Angeloses are not the only ones. You know, George Steinbrenner did this sort of thing. The Angeluses are not the only ones.

You know, George Steinbrenner did this sort of thing. And there's the story about Vin Scully and how he wanted to sort of play it straight, play it down the middle and not be a super homer because he thought that's what fans wanted. And that obviously is what fans want because they're with you every day. They're listening to you 162 times in a year. And it's an intimate kind of relationship. And you're welcoming these broadcasters into your home. And you feel like you're their pals or they're your pals. And you're spending time with them. And they want the straight dope, right? Or, you know, they want at least to feel like they're not being lied to or that the facts are not being distorted. And they will respond to and respect broadcasters who will occasionally call out the team or, if not call out it,

at least acknowledge weaknesses and failures, right? I mean, you're not going to build a bond and allegiance with people by just pretending that everything is wonderful at all times. People appreciate just being given it straight, right? So you're not doing your product any favors by insisting that everything just be rainbows all the time when it isn't. And I think that, you know, there are, even if you set aside like the performance on the field, there are going to be times when things happen within the context of your baseball team that aren't flattering. And the home broadcast has to talk about it. Like what happens if, and I, you know, hopefully they never encountered this, but like what would happen if a member of this club got suspended for domestic violence and you have to account for his absence? How do you as a viewer trust that they're going to talk

about that in a way that is appropriately sensitive if they can't talk about it honestly? So like, part of this is just, you know, a natural bristling at like the petty dictator impulse that seems to sit at the center of this ownership group. But I think that you're right. Like you at home end up feeling like you have a relationship with the people who narrate your summer. You know, if you're watching every Orioles game, you feel invested in these people. You probably know the names of some of their family members, and you want to have a sense of trust. These guys aren't Walter Cronkite, but in some ways, you kind of want there to be a similar dynamic where you can rely on them to illuminate and elevate moments that are exciting and impactful to the chances of the

organization advancing to the postseason. And you want them to be a sober and sort of clear-eyed voice when stuff goes wrong and needs to be addressed frankly. And there are going to be moments that have much higher stakes than like how the Orioles have played at Tropicana Field yeah and you want to be able to count on them being sort of you know relayed to you and portrayed to you honestly and I think you know the real shame of it and I you know I don't have as developed an opinion about the rest of that booth. I've really gravitated toward Kevin Brown. Like, I think he is the kind of broadcaster who could do justice to those moments. Why are you creating nonsense distractions about your own vanity in this moment? Like, I don't want to, you know, it is to the benefit of the Baltimore Orioles in this moment for me to think about the Angelos family as little as possible, right? They should be focused on us thinking about Adley Rutchman and Gunnar Henderson and all their exciting young guys, right?

That's who they should have the focus on. And guess what? They're holding up their end of the bargain by playing really good baseball despite the fact that they have a very thin almost pretend rotation, right? So, like, they're doing the hard part of this. They are pulling off the hard part. You shutting up is easy. Me shutting up is very hard, though, to be clear. I struggle with that.

But, you know, that's fine. I have a podcast. I'm supposed to talk. Yeah, it's a total unforced error. Just like the MLK Day thing and the we'll open up our books. No one thought you were going to open up your books. You didn't have to make that offer that everyone knew you weren't going to honor. So why even do that?

Why make yourself the story, especially if you want to avoid being the subject of negative stories? All you have to do is shut up and just let the team play because the team is really good and fun. I mean, a few days ago, it's just like, oh, look at the little cute puppy nibbling on Adley Rutschman's shoe. So many cute puppies! Yeah, I wasn't thinking about John Angelos, right? Nor did I want to.

And if you don't want people to criticize you for being cheap, you could not be cheap. I mean, you could not have the second lowest payroll in baseball. That is an option. But also, the team is really good and fun. So just get out of the way and people will pay you compliments, if anything, or they just won't mention you at all, which is, I guess, what you want if you're taking your broadcaster off the air. So it is striking,

though, because the vibes couldn't be better with the Orioles on the field, whereas the vibes couldn't be worse with the White Sox on the field, it seems like. So there's quite a contrast there. But it does bring me back because there was a time not so long ago when the White Sox were sort of in the Orioles' position, long ago when the White Sox were sort of in the Orioles position, like they were the young up-and-comers and everything was coming up White Sox. And they looked like they were positioned really well for the future. And gosh, that team just did not go the way that I thought it was going to go.

Like, I'll just quote from Joe Sheehan here. This is in a recent edition of his newsletter. On December 6, 2016, the White Sox, who had missed the playoffs eight straight years, kicked off a rebuild by trading Chris Sale to the Red Sox. Four seasons later, they were back in the postseason in the shortened 2020 season after playing at a 94 win pace over two months. In 2021, they won the AL Central by 13 games. They went into 2022 with a championship caliber roster and the pick in this space to be a top five team in baseball. And gosh, things have unraveled since then, right? I mean, it seemed like their rebuild was working and they got all these great young guys and they had that incredible farm system. And then it was paying off initially at the big league level.

And then it just all came apart with just clubhouse nonsense and injuries and La Russa and everything that's going on now and the lack of depth on the roster being exposed and some other developmental issues and farm system issues, admittedly. But it looked like the core was there for them to be a perennial winner for some time. And then that just fizzled. That just stalled. So you can't take it for granted that a team that comes out of a rebuild and is looking promising will actually fulfill that promise. The Orioles certainly seem to be right now. promise, the Orioles certainly seem to be right now. So just leave them alone and let your broadcaster Kevin Brown talk about how they're better than they used to be, because they are a whole lot better than they used to be. And that's a story that you should want people to be discussing. Yeah. It's like you had puppies right there. Yeah. Right. You just had actual

literal puppies. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Just let the puppies be the story. And Anthony Rutschman. Those are good stories. Yeah. And Gunnar Henderson. Yeah. My goodness. Yeah. It's not like he was on there being like, really weird that we didn't add more than Jack Flaherty to the rotation. He was like, we're good now. So offensive. Yeah. Well, you know who's not good? It's the Angels. I wasn't even going to bring it up because what is there to say? They've lost seven in a row as we speak. I can't believe that my Seattle Mariners might have ended O'Tonnie's season.

The Mariners are kind of in this thing, right? I mean, suddenly the Angels, who had a slim chance that they were clinging to as it was, but a measurable chance. A chance. A double-digit playoff odds chance. Like a 22.7% odd playoff odds chance, yeah. Now it's 1.4%. Yeah. They're close to completely out of it now.

Yeah. They're close to completely out of it now. So, yeah. And it all kind of came apart immediately after the trade deadline, right? Which, you know, Otani had that huge two-way game, like, right after the report surfaced that they weren't trading him. And it's like, all right, you know, hey, you get to at least see this sort of game. And that's true. They do still get to see Otani games down the stretch. And that will be some consolation to them, perhaps. But yeah, if they hoped that the Cinderella run would happen after they held on to talent and acquired additional talent, it doesn't look like that is going to happen. It does not look like that, no.

Yeah, a four-game sweep at the hands of the Mariners, division rival, wildcard rival, and the Mariners now up to a comparatively healthy 27.3% chance to make the playoffs, according to fan graphs. I can't believe it. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's just, it's exciting, but it's a travesty. So, can we take a moment, though? Here, I am going to be the one to talk about this. Can we take a moment to appreciate what Otani has done, though? Because Ben— Nah, nah. We've talked enough about him. So am I correct to remember, Ben, am I correct to remember that the report that he would not be traded emerged on Wednesday, the 26th of July? Is that a correct memory?

That sounds right. From the day after that, the 27th of July, through Monday's games, as a hitter, he is hitting 378,500, 711. He has a 483 WOPA. He has a 215 WRC+. He has hit four home runs. He has walked 16.1% of the time. It is shocking that he has only walked that much because the rest of this offense has been pretty putrid. And so I wouldn't just walk him every time. I would just walk him every time. I might just walk him every time. He's stolen three bases. Yeah. He's been running a little. Yeah. He's been running a little.

Got to get myself into scoring position here because I'm not getting a ton of help. If we want to go with an even more arbitrary set of days, an even smaller sample, if we go just from the day of the trade deadline through yesterday's action, he's actually hitting a little less well. But he's still so good. He's incandescent. He's a shining star. And he will, in almost all likelihood, be watching the postseason from home. But that will give him time to start putting together his pro-con list for the 29 other teams in baseball. And now, will he consider all 29 other teams with the same level of intensity such that

he has to do the pro-con list? I mean, probably not, Ben. You know, I don't think he's going to be a white sock, for instance. Like, I think we can kind of cross them off the list. He probably won't be an oriole either for different reasons but ben i wonder like should we talk for a moment does any of your analysis change is your opinion altered at all by their recent run of just really bad play as to whether or not they should have traded him at the deadline? Are you going to revise history? Are you going to take backseas at all? No, because, yeah, I mean, obviously you have to judge based on what you knew at the time.

But also, I think we always knew that the likely outcome was that they just were not going to make the playoffs and also that he was going to leave. So, yes, the fact that they have immediately gone in the tank after that maybe makes it look more ill-advised. But again, they were in this sort of YOLO situation, as we said at the time, where they were sort of screwed anyway. And perhaps they are even more screwed long term because of the prospects where they were sort of screwed anyway. And perhaps they're even more screwed long term because of the prospects that they traded away. But they were sort of screwed anyway. And yeah, we probably don't have to rehash our whole analysis. But I don't think a week's worth of action or whatever it was bad as that week was, you know, that just it highlights the risk of what they were trying to do. But that risk was always pretty apparent.

Yeah, I think that that is all correct. It didn't necessarily seem likely that they would hit the wall so fast. But the likeliest outcome was always that they would be sitting at home in the course of fall baseball. But I didn't think it would happen so fast. And at the hands of a division rival, I also, I can't believe that I'm going to care about the Mariners again. I don't know why I keep doing this. And then, of course, the Diamondbacks haven't been good, Ben. My rooting interests are all hopsy turvy policy walls

out here blowing saves and yes the mariners are you know having causing the angels to blow saves kate marlowe's hitting grand slams it's cats and dogs living together but um i don't mean to insult kate marlowe he seems like a fine player but uh wasn't didn't seem like the most likely outcome i sat there and i was like is he gonna cause that was his first blown save with a grand slam no that's not gonna happen then he did and i was like wow yeah and that was sons of guns you so-and-so's yeah and that was the game where Otani had basically put the Angels up, right? He had manufactured a run to put them in the lead, and then he hit a home run to give them an insurance run, but it was not nearly enough insurance in the end.

So yeah, didn't go so great for him. However, do you remember early in the season, I guess this was May, when Gary Sanchez was available and we talked about the Angels catching situation and the fact that Logan Ohapi was hurt. He's about to be back seemingly. He's embarking on a rehab assignment soon. And they had not proven catchers, I think you could say, right? And they had tried to put a brave face on it and said, you know, we like what we have and everything. But, you know, they had Matt Dice and Chad Wallach, right? And I wondered, should the Angels sign Gary Sanchez? And they did not. The Mets signed him first, and he was only there for a few games. And then they cut him loose, right? He had been with the Giants as well. Then the Padres signed him first and he was only there for a few games and then they cut him loose right he'd been with the Giants as well then the Padres signed him right have you seen what what Gary Sanchez

has done since he started playing for the Padres because uh it's pretty impressive right he made his debut for the Padres on May 30th and in that time he has hit 15 home runs. He has slugged 523. He is, in fact, leading all major league catchers in home runs hit since that date by a few. He's got a sizable lead there. He is fifth in WRC Plus among catchers, among catchers who have 80 plate appearances or more since then. That's 39 guys. He's fifth with a 130 WRC Plus after Ryan Jeffers, Wilson Contreras, Freddie Fermin, who's also been surprising, and Jonah Heim. Yeah. And he's also, I mean, on the season, he's like 14th in catcher war, even though there was a big chunk of the season that he was not playing.

Like his defense has been pretty solid. And if you just look since the day that he debuted with the Padres, the Padres are sixth in catcher war since then, mostly due to his efforts and also some Luis Camposano. Whereas the Angels are 23rd since then and are replacement level. So perhaps, in fact, they should have replaced replacement level guys with Gary Sanchez because he has been quite good, you know? It's just what a confounding career he has had where it was like defense was the liability and then his defense got better and suddenly he couldn't hit seemingly. And now he's done a decent job of putting the two together after being on the scrap heap and being in the journeyman phase.

Hasn't really helped the Padres turn their season around yet. He has turned his personal season around. So that's something. I'm trying to decide which I find more sort of surprising when it happens. The guy who has shown previous sort of highs like this, right, and then goes through a long, like, fallow period. You know, it's like the yellow stretch on Claire Danes' conspiracy board in Homeland. You know how that's a really recent reference that all the kids will get?

And then sort of has a stretch like this where it's like, no, remember Gary Sanchez? Not that Gary Sanchez, the other Gary Sanchez, the rookie Gary Sanchez, the incredible setting records, going to be part of the next great Yankees core, Gary Sanchez. Is that more surprising?

Or is it when someone's always been bad and then is suddenly good? I think they're surprising in different ways, but I'm delighted for him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 14 homers with the Padres over that span. Francisco Alvarez has 11. JT Romito has 10. So it's not quite like rookie year Gary Sanchez setting the world on fire, but it is in a way maybe more surprising than that.

Also surprising, you know how we're always talking about the Rays did what now with who with what pitcher? Well, so we talked, I think I did a stat blast earlier this season about Jeffrey Springs and the fact that they turned him into a starter, despite his lack of starting experience and his ample bullpen experience. And I was looking for precedence for guys with his track record who'd been used the way that he had and then went on to start with the success that he had. And there weren't many. And of course, he got hurt and other Rays pitchers got hurt. And Shane McClanahan has forearm issues now. It's just one guy after another with them. Have you seen who they're starting now? They're starting Zach Littell. Zach Littell is a starting pitcher for the Tampa Bay

Rays these days. That's, I mean, it's either Rays magic or it's scraping the bottom of the barrel. I mean, no offense to Zach Littell. Usually when people say no offense, they just said something that would definitely be offensive to that person, as I did. But, like, I mean, he's been all over. Like, the Red've been tracking Jake Diekman and how he has done with the Rays. I'll give you a Jake Diekman FIP update with Tampa Bay. 3.67. He's got a 2.16 ERA with the Rays. Now 25 innings pitched with a 3.67 FIP. They've done it again.

But also, Zach Littell. Zach Littell is starting for the he is famous in effectively wild circles, semi famous for being a great cruise ship enthusiast. Right. Who has spent much of his life just on the water. Right. Just cruising with the rest of the Littell family. family, and I've expressed my curiosity about whether that behavior has continued post-pandemic. But what we know now is that you can just throw any old pitcher in the starting rotation. He's made two starts now. He's scheduled for another one later this week, and it's gone okay. His first start, he faced the Astros, gave up two runs in five innings pitch. Then he faced the Tigers and shut them out for six innings. Now, granted, he had one strikeout in that second start. I'm not saying it's going to continue to work or that the Rays really believe in Zach Littell as opposed to just, we have to start someone. But this guy had never started in the big leagues before except for

opener games. And the Rays, I guess, to their credit, they really don't take the starter-reliever divide very seriously, right? I mean, that's always been the thing with them with openers and everything else. It's just, you know, we'll pull guys early and less of a distinction between starters and relievers than there used to be. But they have at least, even when they have openers, they have the bulk guy. They have someone who goes more innings. And Zach Littell is now a major league starting pitcher. I'm just always fascinated because the conversion usually goes the other way where you don't do great as a starter and then you end up in the bullpen. Rarely do you have someone who's as far into their fairly undistinguished big league career as Zach Littell, who then gets the ball to be a starting pitcher. But I guess it's dire straits, even after they traded for Aaron Savalle. Yeah, and you know, like,

some guys will get healthy and come back, but you do worry about, like, what does this mean for them in terms of their playoff? Like, how they situate themselves come playoff time? Because I don't know, like, maybe it'll be fine. But do you want Zach Littell ring a playoff game for you? Probably not.

Probably not. I'm asking my small voice as if to say, I don't know. As we recently learned, they can't count on beating up on Baltimore when the Orioles come to town either. They sure can't. That's going against them too. And also, I wanted to mention this update on Charlie Culberson, who we talked about recently because he had managed to remain a major leaguer without actually playing in major league games except for one game that he got onto and got a hit. And that was that.

But he's back with Atlanta now. He's been cut loose multiple times. And then he was on their roster not playing for weeks at a time. And then he was cut loose again, designated for assignment, outrighted off the roster, elected to become a free agent. And then he re-signed with Atlanta on a new minor league deal. Like, can we conclude from this that he does want the gravy train of a big league roster spot without getting into big league games? Like, this is the second time in a little more than a month that he was designated for assignment and outrighted and went into free agency only to return to Atlanta, right? So is he hoping that, hey, maybe they will call me up and not play me again?

hey, maybe they will call me up and not play me again? Is it just like the pickings are so slim elsewhere that at least I'll sign with the team that carried me on the roster for a while without ever using me? Better than being on a minor league roster playing regularly, maybe. Certainly better pay, better accommodations, all of that. So, I mean, he can't have resented

his lack of usage that much because he's now had multiple chances to leave and has decided he wanted a reunion. I think that it's possible that he just like also likes the vibe of the place and like feels like he gels well with the personnel. And, you know, I imagine that when you are a veteran and you have the opportunity to regain an organization that has like the kind of anticipated postseason run that Atlanta has, like that's probably exciting in and of itself. You don't maybe don't like moving. Who does? So, you know, yeah. Yeah. And another update on things we've discussed earlier this season.

Rob Maines, a friend of the show, sometime guest at Baseball Perspectives. early season. Rob Maines, a friend of the show, sometime guest at Baseball Perspectives. He does these monthly check-ins where he reviews the scoring environment of the previous month and compares it to previous, the same calendar months in previous seasons. And he also strips out the effect of position player pitching and the zombie runner, which can distort scoring if you're comparing to pre-zombie runner seasons or seasons when position player pitchers weren't quite so common. And he concluded a few things in his most recent dispatch, which I will link to. One, he has been tracking the injury rate. And we know that early on in the season, there were a lot of injuries and partly there were a

lot of injuries in spring training. We had a full length spring training, so there was, if anything, compared to past seasons. So all the uproar about injuries early in the season, it seems to have subsided. The guys are still getting hurt, you know, pitchers, hitters, Josh Young fracturing his thumb in the thick of a pennant race and a rookie of the year race. I mean, still some crucial, costly, painful injuries happening here. But on the whole, it does look like things are not at least any more out of control than they were before. And the hand-wringing about the pitch clock and whether that was related to the injuries, it's maybe too soon to say anything conclusive.

But as someone who's pro-pitch clock, I'm pleased to see that there does not seem to be any strong evidence at this point in the season that there has been some kind of cause and effect there that that has amplified the injury rate. Yes, I think that it's good for us to keep examining. But yeah, it is promising that and granted, like some of that is perhaps like guys got hurt early and aren't back. Could be. And so they've been pulled out of the population of potential injury guys again. But my sense was not that most of the injuries we saw early on were season ending. I mean, there were some season ending pitching injuries, but certainly not all of them. So you'd think that that effect would be somewhat muted.

So yeah, we are pro pitch clock and we are pro players not getting hurt or put in a position where they might hurt themselves at a higher rate than usual. That would fit badly on a t-shirt, but that's what we're at. Great slogan, yeah, for our platform but yeah he also speaking of the pitch clock he looked at this on a monthly basis and found that the pitch clock

it's probably too strong to say that it's it's wearing off but but it's not quite working as well as the season has gone on so he broke it down into eight and a half inning games where there's no bottom of the ninth and nine inning games. And he compared it by month 2023 versus 2022 and just looked at how much shorter the games are this year than they were last year. So for instance, eight and a half inning games in April, games were 27.1 minutes shorter than they were the previous April. In May, 27.0 minutes. In June, 22.4 minutes. In July, 21.8 minutes. And same sort of pattern if you look at the nine inning games, April, 30.5 minute savings. May, 27.8.

June, 26.7. July, 25.2. So I don't know why that is exactly, but it looks like relative to last season, the games are like five minutes slower than they were at the start of this season, right? Like the time that had been trimmed off relative to last season, it's about five minutes less in the most recent month than it was in the first month of the season. And there's been a gradual drop off month by month. Don't know why that is exactly. And obviously like saving 22 or 25 minutes, that's nothing to sneeze at. It's just a little less than 27 or 30 and a half. Right. So I don't know if it's that they've been less diligent about enforcing it or that there have been loopholes that have been exploited or that or that they have eased up on it or provided more exceptions

or been a little less aggressive when it comes to this. Like, you know, you have to remain vigilant about these things because pretty much all previous attempts to trim time off the games would work for a little while and then there would be backsliding, right? And obviously the effects weren't as huge in either direction in previous attempts. So it's not like it's not working anymore. But there has been just like a slight little lengthening relative to last season. I don't know exactly why.

I wonder if – I don't necessarily interpret this as a bad thing. Because I think that you want to have room in the rules. When there's a rule change, you want to have room for folks to get used to it and find an equilibrium, which you don't want backsliding to the point that we saw in the minors, right? This was J.J. Cooper's conclusion in the first run of the pitch clock, right? That games lengthened again and they basically returned to where they were pre- the pitch clock, right? That games lengthened again and they basically returned to where they were pre-implementation, right?

Am I correct in remembering that? So you don't want that because we like zippy games. But there's probably a little wiggle in there to make it work well for everyone such that you don't want to lose the benefit. But if you can have a little bit of flex in the system that facilitates buy-in and makes people feel like the rules are responsive to experience like i think your odds of maintaining gains over the long run might be better

maybe i don't know if i believe that but i'm'm going to noodle on it, Ben. I think that's a possibility that you want a little, you want there to be a little give for deviants. Maybe. Yeah. Right. Because you run less risk of just pissing players off and then they take a hard line and say, oh, we insist on pitch clocks in the postseason or no pitch clocks in the postseason, right? So maybe, but also if you give a little, then maybe people will start to take a lot. So setting a hard line and sticking to it. I could see, you know, maybe they were hyper vigilant and aggressive early on just to set the tone. And it's like, no, we're really not going to let you get away with this anymore. And then time goes on and, you know, a second or here or there, you let slip.

But then you have to be careful that it doesn't keep slipping and you give back the gains that you had. There might be people who are pleased by this because there are people who feel like the game

goes too quickly, especially if you're in the park and they might appreciate a few more minutes and maybe this alleviates the concerns of players heading into the postseason. But something to monitor, right? Because MLB, I think, is happy with how this has gone. So I'm sure that the league does not want these gains to be given back or for this to

erode entirely. But again, it's just, you know, it's a fairly small percentage of the time savings have been lost. So we'll see if that continues. I have exciting news to report to you, Ben. Breaking. It won't be breaking by the time people listen to this. But apparently Kevin Brown is set to return to the air Friday when the Baltimore Orioles face my Seattle Mariners. I'm saying my, like, derogatory.

Right. Yes. The pylon worked, it seems like. Everyone in the world was bringing this to attention and asking the Orioles and Angelos for comment. And it turns out they couldn't just hide him forever, especially once the cause became known. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised because like the decision to suspend him initially suggests an overdeveloped ability to be embarrassed. And so perhaps it's unsurprising that that same instinct could be tweaked such that he

returns to the air. Maybe, maybe. Could be. Yeah. Yeah. And you wonder, for someone who's in that situation, are they constantly then going to have to watch their words?

Like, is he going to get any assurances about, hey, you can factually acknowledge poor performance by the team in the past without worrying about your job security here? Does that color what he says? Does that affect his long-term relationship with the team? If you're a great broadcasting talent, do you want to be broadcasting for a team

that could yank you off the air if you just point out that they didn't have success in one ballpark in previous seasons? So, yeah, you would think it might affect your ability to attract and retain talent if you became known for that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. And then also might affect fans' trust and confidence in what they are hearing, right? If they feel like they're just getting like the state organ here telling them what the owners think that they would want to hear, then can they actually take that to the bank anymore?

One more thing that Rob pointed out. It's been a while since I've ranted about the zombie runner. I think people know my position on that. However, Rob pointed this out, and of course, he is with me, very much aligned on the anti-zombie runner stance. He said, if you think position players pitching make the game a farce, consider that not only was there less scoring when position players were on the mound than in the presence of zombie runners in July,

through July, there have been 9.63 runs scored per 27 outs in extra innings compared to 9.49 when position players are on the mound. So the scoring environment when the zombie runner is happening is more inflated than it is with no zombie runner but a position player on the mound. When a position player is on the mound, you think, oh, they're running up the white flag. You know, this is going to be silly now. There's just going to be guys hitting homers all over the place.

But when the zombie runner is in effect, scoring is actually higher than with an unqualified pitcher on the mound. And I asked Rob, this is not a small sample thing. It's not just this season. He looked at past seasons, too. 2022, the zombie runner scoring was 10.13 runs per 27 outs. Position players, 10.07. So essentially the same, just a little lower. And 2021, Zombie Runner's 10.54 runs per 27 outs.

Position players, 8.43. Considerably lower. So on the whole, in the Zombie Runner era, there have been quite a few fewer runs scored on a rate basis when position players are pitching than when the zombie runner is happening. And obviously, like, I know maybe it is a farce of a different sort. It makes a mockery of the game in a different way. At least both teams can score a lot of runs in that environment. Do you have an actual pitcher on the mound?

It's just that you get a free runner out there on second base who scores more easily. So in a sense, it looks more like regular baseball in that there's still a qualified pitcher out there just placed at a disadvantage because there's a runner on base. So I'm not saying aesthetically it's exactly the same, but in the way that it distorts scoring and comes on the heels of nine innings played in a completely different offensive environment, that's the degree to which it distorts scoring. So I continue to be displeased by that. I support you in your displeasure. Thank you. And lastly, did you see this note about the Yankees minor leaguer who is ambidextrous and has now thrown with each of his arms in a game? This happened just recently. His name is Anthony Siegler, and he is normally a catcher. And like all catchers these days, he throws right-handed.

And he played outfield and was a lefty thrower when he played outfield. So he's now thrown with both of his arms or each of his arms. He didn't use both of them at the same time. That would be funny. Yeah. This, I think, is pretty cool. It got some attention. This was Wednesday.

He was playing for AA Somerset, appeared as a left-handed throwing left fielder, and then Thursday he was back behind the plate as a right-handed throwing catcher. So he was a 2018 draftee who was selected 23rd overall. Scouts marveled, MLB.com says, at his ability to throw in the mid-80s and equally effectively with either arm. But he was ultimately drafted as a catcher due to his all-around ability. So he's played almost exclusively catcher since then as a right-handed throwing guy, but just played in the outfield. And he said, when I was younger, I always played outfield lefty. So there was no doubt that if I ever got the opportunity to do it in pro ball, it was definitely going to be lefty.

And he had done this, I guess, in 2021 and in right field as well. But this confused the broadcaster, I guess, because he was confused about the handedness also, but he did get a put out. It went fine. But this made me think and lament again that I wish we had a left-handed throwing catcher, that it has happened, but it has not happened in a big league game since Benny DiStefano, who did it for three games with the Pirates in 1989. And of course, you have to go way back to find someone who did this regularly. Siegler said, I never really got the opportunity nor thought

about catching lefty. I've had that in the back of my mind. So it sounds like he was thinking about it on some level. And people have always brought it up to me or asked me if I ever did it. But I just feel a lot more comfortable righty. I imagine part of the comfort is that he's just always done that, right? Because left-handed throwing catchers, they get shunted to other positions or they are prevented from playing. So I have long thought that it would be possible. I mean, you see this in high-level softball. It could be done. You know, he said it's cool to think about playing the outfield, especially as a left-hander, but I feel like my main position is catcher.

And this is the sort of guy who maybe might have had the potential to be a left-handed throwing catcher. But there's just such a strict ban on these guys. And I want to say bias against these guys has just been so long. And there are some legitimate cases to be made against it and arguments for why it wouldn't work or wouldn't be optimal. But I think it could work. I really I think there could be some potential advantages to it, too. So I would really like to see someone break that barrier. And this is the guy to do it. We know he has the ambidextrous ability. Let's do it.

Yeah. I mean, I think part of the reason why we don't see this is that, or people say at least, that if you've got a great arm and you throw lefty, then you will end up pitching, not catching. Right? So it might just be that players with that talent, they just gravitate toward or they get directed toward pitching instead of catching. And then there is, I guess, the main other arguments against it being a good idea is that one, when you throw with a right-handed batter at the plate and someone's trying to steal third, then that could potentially be a problem right because uh the runners in the way I mean you know it's just a more awkward angle to begin with like

obviously catchers that as it is they can do snap throws to first and they can try to catch you there but it's not ideal so there might be a better in the way and also just not the greatest angle when you're throwing down to third. And then there's also, I think, a belief that maybe it's like the tailing action on the throw. I'm quoting here from a Max Marchi article for Baseball Prospectus years ago that I edited before Max went to work for Cleveland. And he said, you know, there's a natural tailing action on thrown baseballs that for left-handed catchers would make the assist veer away from the oncoming base runner. However, Max made the case that it could actually be advantageous. I mean, he said it wouldn't matter on throws to second. He looked and the handedness of the batter didn't seem to affect the success rate there. But then also there could be a framing advantage potentially to a left-handed catcher because, he said, since right-handed throwers wear their mitt on their left hand, they reach the

inside corner against right-handed batters and the outside corner against left-handed batters easily. When they have to catch a pitch on the other side of the strike zone, that is, to their own right, they need to stretch their arm a bit across their body. Since framing is in part the art of convincing the umpire that you didn't move, I'd speculate that it's easier to display steadiness when the pitch arrives on your glove side. Now on to the umpires. Umpires make a slightly higher proportion of incorrect calls on the outside corner than they do on the inside corner. I believe the reason for this is that they usually place themselves on the inside corner, which gives them a better view there.

And he was able to back this up with numbers. And so he found, he said, catchers can exploit the umpire's fallibility, especially on the outside corner. It's easier to look steadier and get calls when the ball is delivered to the catcher's glove side. And there are more right-handed batters than left-handed batters coming to the plate, offering more opportunities to left-handed catchers for the favorable combination of the previous two points, an outside corner pitch on the catcher's glove side. So he's saying that there could be a framing advantage there, which I guess if we lose framing in the future,

then that would go away. So this is the time we need to strike on the left-handed throwing catcher. Yeah. While there could still be potentially an advantage conferred there. I think that if you feel yourself losing steam on the zombie runner crusade,

this can be your new one. Yeah, this will be a tough one. I'm not sure which is less likely that I could actually affect some change here. I don't think I have great odds with either. All right. Let's finish with the future blast, which comes to us from the year 2043 and from Rick Wilber, an award-winning writer, editor, and college professor who has been described as the dean of science fiction baseball. Rick writes, the baseball unplugged movement, which came about because of the one-inning rebellion that we discussed last time, expanded in 2043 with players during spring training free to unplug or plug in their social media accounts and connections to

Be There as they saw fit. MLB's contract with Be There and the new Why app, which featured constant live dialogue and commentary from the players but no video, had been renegotiated over the offseason as the MLBPA fought hard to make sure the individual decisions could be made by each player. More than half the players stuck with BeThere for its positive impact on their income, but a good two-thirds of the players backed away from other social media accounts with their expectations for a nearly constant feed. On the field, Trent McCauley continued to impress, now at 19 years old, hitting.322 and winning his second gold glove at short,

even as veteran players like Jordan Jantz and Colton Oleski had unexpectedly great seasons, Jantz, the setup pitcher for the Rockies, developed a baffling knuckleball that bewildered most hitters as it fluttered toward the plate, looked fat, and then dived. That an eight-year veteran of good but not great stats could suddenly emerge as the top reliever in the AL West

was a joy to watch for Rocks fans. Moved to closer, she knuckled her way to the Cy Young, the first woman to earn that honor and the first closer to win it since Eric Gagne way back in 2003. Meanwhile, over in the junior circuit, slugger Colton Oleski at 40 years old had his best season at the plate, leading the White Sox to the World Series when his walk-off Grand Slam gave the Sox the win over the returning Yomiuri Giants. Leske, who didn't make the big leagues until he was 30 years old, had been quiet in the World Series until that key slam after a regular season with 57 homers. It was easily the best season of his long career as a journeyman. His cannon arm in right and his willingness to embrace the wall earned him a third

gold glove. The Giants, who'd lost three starters to the Taiwan crisis when the dispute threatened to boil over into war, came within one inning of winning their second World Series in a row. Occasionally, we get these little allusions to concerning world events that are maybe beyond the immediate purview of the future blast, at least in this particular entry. But clearly some geopolitical situations spoiling over as well while the action is taking place on the field here. Yeesh. Glad the knuckleball is back, though.

Yeah, how about that? Well, the dreaded forearm injury as a prelude to a more serious diagnosis strikes again after we finished recording. The Rays announced that Shane McClanahan, very unlikely to return this season, might have to have surgery one way or another, probably won't pitch again in 2023, which means that you can look forward to much more Zach Littell. Also, if you're interested in learning more about last week's guest, Declan Cronin's chess career, he told the story of how he was enmeshed in a

chess match when he got the news that he was being called up. He did an interview with chess.com, and there's a diagram of that game so you can see that he was well ahead. And he talks more about his affection for chess. He had a great game on Tuesday in a losing effort when a couple scoreless innings struck out five. Almost certain that Declan Cronin was not the rookie who was sleeping in the White Sox bullpen. For one thing, he only overlapped with Keenan Middleton for a few days. For another, I can't imagine a fellow Regian so soon after his call-up would be sleeping on the job. If a relief pitcher is technically on the job when they're just waiting to be called in. But gosh, what an environment to walk into for a rookie. Hey, I'm in the major leagues. Uh-oh, our clubhouse is a

tire fire. Very much the gif of Troy walking into the room with the pizza on community. You can be a great clubhouse presence for Effectively Wild by supporting the podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild. The following five listeners have already signed up and pledged some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going, help us stay ad-free, and get themselves access to some perks. Benny, Dan, Alfredo Linguini, Casey Bushman, and Michael Blaine Wentworth. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the Patreon Discord group for patrons only,

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Effectively Wild on iTunes and Spotify and other podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectivelywild. You can follow Effectively Wild on Twitter at EWPod, and you can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at r slash Effectively Wild. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with another episode soon. Talk to you then. When I'm riding the buzzer going for a walk One strap on my head for them listening to people talk Don't want to hear about baseball with nuance and puffy and stats Yeah, yeah

Don't want to hear about pitcher wins or about gambling odds Only want to hear about my child having vitals And the texture of the hair on the arm growing out of one's head Gross, gross Gimme, gimme, gimme effectively wild This is effectively wild Why, Mr. Anderson, why? Why? Why do you. Anderson? Why? Why?

Why do you do it? Why? Why get up? Why keep fighting? You believe you're fighting for something for more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson, why? Why do you persist?