Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2107: The Mascot Menu

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about the cruelty of the gift Ben gave his Effectively Wild Secret Santa recipient, which MLB team has the most pressure on it to finish the offseason strong (15:23), Chris Sale’s extension, and the Mets signing Harrison Bader. Then (36:36) they answer listener emails about which mascots would be […]

More than 2,000 episodes retrospectively filed, and at each new one we still collectively smile. That's Effectively Wild. That's Effectively Wild. Hello and welcome to episode 2107 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of The Ringer, joined by Meg Rowley of Fangraphs. Hello, Meg. Hello. I need a ruling from you on the secret Santa gift I gave.

Oh. I want to know whether you think it was mean or funny. Ben. Not that it could be both. It could be both mean and funny. It could be funny because it's mean. Is this what I get for not being in the Discord very much, that I don't know what you're talking about? For those who don't know how the Effect of the Wild Secret Santa works, one of our listeners, Zach Wendkos, has organized it for years. And people sign up to give some small, low-dollar-value baseball-related gift to someone else who signs up and listens to

Effectively Wild. And it's a nice little exchange. And it's supposed to be, I think, $25 or less, something like that. And you don't get much information about the person you're giving the gift to. You know, if they enter this information, what their shirt size is, what their hat size is, what their favorite team is, maybe who their favorite player is. That's about it. So you could just go off the board and give something you think is cool. But if you're going to give something that caters to their interests, then your options are fairly limited. So I always get something Shohei Otani related, which I'm not mad about.

I don't even put my preferences on there. But if you're participating in Effectively Wild Secret Santa, you've probably heard Effectively Wild and thus you know me. Right. And so I always get a Shohei shirt of some kind. I got a great Shohei Otani Samurai Japan jersey one year from Tim Livingston, formerly of the Stompers, which was a wonderful gift. This year, listener Sean gave me a Shohei shirt that was Dodgers themed. Didn't have one of those, obviously. So great. Love getting Shohei stuff. And I gave a Shohei related gift this year, not just because of my own interest in Shohei Otani, but because the recipient indicated that Shohei Otani was one of his favorite players. Okay.

And the recipient was also a Blue Jays fan. Oh, no. Oh, no, Ben. Yeah. I'm worried. You've made me very nervous. I debated whether to do this. I thought about talking to some other Toronto Blue Jays fans as sort of like sensitivity readers sort of before I. But ultimately, I just went ahead and did it.

And I'm going to send you a link because the person who received the gift posted about it in the Facebook group, and modeled the jersey that I gave. So, if you could check out this link, and I will link to it on the show page, and you can see. Is that the flight number? Yeah, that's the flight number. Oh, my God. Wow. Wow. So, I sent him a jersey that says Blue Jays on the front and on the back where the number goes, it says N616RH, which was the flight number of the flight that did not carry Shohei Otani to Toronto, but in fact carried Shark Tank's Robert Herjavec to Toronto. debated whether this would be too cruel, whether this would be too much of a knife twist to receive this shirt after not receiving Shohei Otani on your team. And ultimately, I just decided to do it. I don't know how to describe my particular feelings other than to say that I'm in awe,

you know, really, that this is, wow, Ben. What if this had been a Mariners situation? Sure, sure, sure, sure. You know, Otani spurned the Mariners. I guess they spurned him, if anything, this time around. But the first time, Mariners fans thought that he might sign with them instead of the Angels. So what if there had been a flight tracking situation then, right? How would you feel if someone gave you this gift?

So, okay. So, here's what I think. I think my initial reaction would be, whoa, wow. Oh, like, ah. You know, I would have the ah feeling because here I am. I'm having a feeling of pretty profound ah. So, that would be my first reaction but then i think i i think that it would grow on me yeah in a pretty profound way yeah but i might i might wait to wear it to the ballpark because here's the thing you're gonna be asked about this like right custom jerseys are i think a lot of people don't interact with the custom jersey if they're just like a stranger in the crowd because you know people might assume one that there's a like a bygone player they don't know about right or remember and that you are just like a you know a twee weirdo and this is your way of expressing your tweeness,

right? Or they just assume that it's your last name, right? So, they're like, oh, well, I don't know who that is, but it's probably that person's like last name and they have a custom jersey. And, you know, I think people's mileage varies on the custom jersey. But like, that's not the issue we're litigating here. So, we'll set that aside for now. If what you have on your back is a series of letters and numbers, I think that is go to spring training. But like, you know, in the early going of the season, it might strike some as too soon, you know? Yes. It might feel too soon. I debated whether it was too soon to give this gift.

Right. Although by this time next year, I don't know whether anyone would remember the cost of the N616RH significance. No. And this time next year, I think this is unequivocally just like a banger of a gift. It's a deep cut by then because, yeah, it'll either be a conversation piece like, hey, what's that odd sequence of letters and numbers on your back? Or it'll be someone who remembers this and is like, hey, I see and recognize this, right?

Yeah. And only probably, I know it was obviously a big deal, the Otani flight tracking saga story, but probably more among the extremely online than the more offline. Correct. Correct. Others probably wouldn't. We can only hope, Ben. Yes.

We can only hope that there remains a segment of the population that has not been brain poisoned in the way we are brain poisoned. And even among those who were following that saga in real time, I don't know how many of them would remember that it was N616RH, even if they remember the whole flight saga. So, see, I thought this would be kind of a cool thing. flight saga. So, see, I thought this would be kind of a cool thing. Like, I would wear it if someone gave it to me because it's sort of in the know, you know, like, if you know, you know, sort of thing. Oh, yeah. Right? And it does feel a little bit mean. And I don't intend to make someone feel bad about the fact that our team does not have Shohei Otani because, I mean, you're feeling bad about that already. And I sympathize.

Yeah, you don't want to add salt to the wound. One of the world's foremost appreciators of Shohei Otani. I understand that it's painful to be deprived of his presence. So I get it. But I also thought, I think I would appreciate this if I got this gift. Yeah. I think I would appreciate this if I got this gift. And it seems to have been received in the spirit in which it was intended. Oh, yeah. Which is important.

Yeah. The caption was spent about 45 minutes believing I'd received a strange off-brand clearance rack misprint jersey before realizing that it is in fact the sickest burn in anonymous sports-related gift-giving history. So I don't know that I even intended it as a sick burn, but more just like I would wear it to be sort of self-deprecating almost. Like if my team missed out on Shohei Otani, it's like I didn't get, you know, we were in the running for Shohei Otani and all I got was this stupid off-brand jersey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

So, it's sort of poking fun at one's own team or fan base, sort of. That's sort of how I was thinking of it. Well, I have two thoughts. The first of which is, how many appreciators do you think rank ahead of you on the Otani appreciator leaderboard? So, you don't have to answer right now, but I want you to like sit with that question, see if you're comfortable with the answer the the second thing that i would say is that i hope that this is a place where like the sense that people have of you from the podcast

can help to guide their reaction because now ben we and you've seen me or at least heard me react on mike uh where there will be times where you will just like throw a haymaker out of nowhere and I will go, oh, my God, Ben. But I think in general, people understand that you are, you know, you're a gentle soul, Ben. You know, you're a nice person and you don't want to cause anyone discomfort or sadness. And so I would hope that people look at this and go, well, you know, he probably doesn't mean this in a mean spirited sort of way because he's not a mean spirited sort of guy. And my third thought, I've had a third thought emerge, which is that I would argue that there are two kinds of bonding that come from sports fandom. And the one that people want, the one that they prefer, is bonding forged out of triumph, right? The friendship you make at the ballpark hugging a stranger because your team has just advanced to the World Series, Ben.

Congrats to your team. Like, wow. But there is another form of bonding. And it is one that, say, I have a lot of familiarity with as a Mariners fan, and that is the bonding formed in shared sadness. This is that, you know, and hopefully for Blue Jays fans, they will be able to, despite this stinging disappointment, in future seasons, feel the triumph. They will come together because they're Blue Jays. They're Toronto Blue Jays have won a World Series or advanced that far or had a spectacular whatever. They won the East. There are all kinds of ways to be happy, right? So hopefully that is the dominant feeling they have, because I don't wish Blue Jay fans ill. And, you know, I know people who work for the team. I want them to have a nice time. But it's good to remember the moments of disappointment. the person who received it to wait like a week or a month before, you know, before you wear it out to the ballpark. individual in terms of your understanding of the game, not only from a nuts and bolts, stats and bats perspective, but from the feelings it conveys, right? Because you listen to this podcast, not only smart, sophisticated sorts, both intellectually and emotionally do that, but, you know, your fellows might not be quite as evolved. And I would hate for you to have a bad

day at the ballpark because they don't get the joke, you know, like just give it, give it a minute. But, um, but wow, how long did it take to arrive? Quite a while, actually. I'll tell you about that, but yeah, there is kind of a commiseration that can be a nice bonding, shared experience of fandom, Almost a gallows humor. Yes. Right? Like a lovable loser recognizing each other. Not that the Blue Jays are losers. No. But they were losers in the Shohei Otani sweepstakes. In this particular instance, yes.

Yeah. And so I think I would feel seen if I saw that. Oh, yeah. And it would be different if I were a Dodgers fan. Sure. Sending it to gloat. Yes. That cast the entire interaction in a different light if you're a Dodgers fan, sending it to gloat, we got him and you didn't.

That cast the entire interaction in a different light if you're a Dodgers fan. Because then, sorry, I'm going to do it, swear, then you'd be an a**hole. Yeah, right. But it's not that. It's not that. Yeah. He said delightful, well-played, seemed to enjoy it. The commenters, again, some didn't know what the significance was.

Others said, that's awesome. I love it. So that's kind of what we were saying. That reaction might be what you get in the wild. Although I do enjoy that the modeling photos here, there's a front and a back. And the gentleman's expression, it's not a pleased expression. It's not like, look at this great jersey I got. It's not a pleased expression. It's not like, look at this great jersey I got.

No. It's kind of downcast, maybe a little sheepish, which suits the gift perfectly, I think. Yeah. I think if I can make an assumption, like a memory is washing over that face that is like, yeah, I thought we had him for a minute and then that plane landed. Yep. Yeah. So the process for obtaining this jersey was a little involved because I did want to just go all out and get an official Blue Jays jersey with the logo and everything. They wouldn't let you? No, they wouldn't let me. Yeah, not because they specifically banned N616RH, but just because the template only allowed two or I think maybe three digit numbers. So they just would not let me put that many in there. And I thought of just doing like 616 and then doing like NRH as the name and 616, but it didn't look quite as good. Yeah. So that would have been above the recommended spending limit, but I would have done it just for the story. But ultimately, because I couldn't go the official route, I found some sort of

sketchy, just like offshore, you know, off-brand custom jersey place. And yeah, it took a while to be delivered. It did not make it in time for Christmas, but it did make it. And I'm sure that the manufacturing quality is not the greatest, but it looks more like a Royals jersey probably than a Blue Jays one. It totally does. Yeah, but it's close enough. It says Blue Jays and it's blue and white and I figured it would get the point across. I love that we have all learned how you got your identity story this this would be the great greatest ending to this story i would get my comeuppance no it would be so terrible sounds like apart from anything else just a lot of time on the phone yeah there's that with long distance calls maybe okay so that sort of segues into an actual banter topic today, which I wanted

to ask you, which team you think has the most pressure on it right now to do something, to make moves, right? Maybe a team that entered the off season with high expectations to be active or even set high expectations for itself and still has not completed its business or has not delivered on how much it said it was going to do. So which team do you think still has the most to do in order to satisfy its fans, let's say. And I think satisfy its fans is important because there are teams that have a lot to do if what we are judging them by is being a competitive major league franchise, a going concern in pro ball. But that's a little bit of a different question. Some of those teams are actively just not trying to address those concerns because they're doing other things with their time we should talk about toronto but i i think for me the number one um team on that list just based on my my level of

concern for the front office as in like the people in it being torn apart like they are being set upon by a horde of zombies is the chicago cubs yeah with like a with like a bullet you know um there's like the cubs and then there's like some space and then there's some other teams we can talk about but i think it's definitely the cubs and that's not just because bauman just wrote about this impressive band graph but i think he you know he had his finger on the pulse in terms of the the perception not just among cubs fans but among the um sort of baseball public and industry at large which is like they started their off season with a with a big bang you know arguably stealing away snatching away in the night Craig Council from a division rival.

Like that's, you know you don't spend what we at the time assumed they would have to to keep him to to tear your team down right that was sort of our conclusion and so when when chicago brought him over it sounded to me as if well this is a this is a club that is that views itself to be ready and that has, you know, ambition at the very least in the central and in all likelihood beyond that. And they are also a team that has some holes, right? There are things that need to be addressed here, some of which could presumably be addressed by repotting in your own soil. I sound like Scott Boris. You know, guys who have already left, like Ballinger, Stroman.

But some of those names are off the board now, right? Like, they can't go. They hand-sign Candelario. He's busy. He's in a different city in the Midwest. So, they have needs. They definitely, I think, need to add some additional firepower to their, uh,

lineup. And I think that like, I feel nervous looking at their rotation. So like they have stuff to do. They had a stretch of being, um, less than competitive as a, as a big league team.

And I think that like presented themselves to their fans is like, we're, we're we're here to do the competing now um and that was true before council was hired and it was really true once council was hired and um they at this point i think still have not signed a player to a big league contract am i correct correct in that assessment? I guess we don't know what Brewer's deal is yet, but he announced it himself on Instagram, which tends to not be the sign that you've signed a big league deal.

So they're really up there. They're at the place where I think people are like, so, hey, when are you going to get to be doing stuff now? And they've tried. And I don't mean that in like a, to excuse them way, but I think like they genuinely, it sounds like did try to be in the Otani game and, and lost out. And so now they need to re re orient finding, you know, additional reinforcements in the rotation, reorient finding you know additional reinforcements in the rotation uh another bat they really need a better option at first base um so yeah they have some stuff they have some stuff to do and the weight of expectation and they can't i don't think that the cubs can like credibly cry poor you know

they're they are the the richer franchise in aise city, it's time for them to run a payroll that reflects that. And they're on their way. You know, they've added some guys along the way here, and they have some exciting guys coming up, right? But they need to do stuff. It's time. Go do.

Go do. Yeah. And there is still time for them to do that. And some of the biggest remaining free agents are Scott Boras' clients, whether it's Snell and Bellinger or Matt Chapman or Jordan Montgomery. So those free agencies might take some time to play out. And as Bellman pointed out in his post, the Cubs were probably better than their record indicated last year. They were eight wins below their base runs expected record.

And they have some prospects who broke in late last year or are about to. And so you could plausibly expect them to improve even without making major additions. But they have some significant departures, too. And yeah, if they just stand pat where their payroll is, then the fans would be very upset. So I think they will make some moves, but they definitely have to make some moves. And I guess I'd agree with that assessment. It's tough because, yeah, they were one of the teams in the running for Otani, as were the Blue Jays. lesser extent if you missed out on him as everyone but the Dodgers did on both of those players then yeah how do you follow up on that because there isn't another player who's equally appealing or

sensational really right or even as pricey probably because you could look at that and say well if you were in the running and in the bidding for those guys, well, then you must have a bunch of money to spend. Right. And I guess that's technically true, although there might not be players you would want to spend as much on as those players, of course. And there might not be players who are as good as those players. So it sort of raises expectations like, oh, wow, we were in the running for those guys. Then we must make some other major move because we missed out on them. But there isn't really a move to be made that's as major

as those would have been. So you're sort of in a tough spot where you've raised expectations and you can't quite satisfy them. Yeah, I think that part of the impact of an Otani is that you are able to pack so much production and value into one person on the roster. I think that teams, even teams where the various pobos or other executives are able to go to ownership and say, look, this is a lot of money, but it's going to be worth it because we're getting Otani. lot of money but it's going to be worth it because we're getting otani you know part of the value proposition with him is you know a big part of it is what he brings to the team obviously but like part of how i think you uh justify to yourself the size of an expenditure like you need for him even if a lot of it is deferred is like he brings so much else to the team in terms of interest in terms of ticket sales in terms of merchandising in terms of ticket sales, in terms of merchandising, in terms of opportunities for us to expand our fan base into Japan, all this other stuff, right? And, you know, that's not true of, like, Cody Bellinger.

And Cody Bellinger's a fine player. Like, I don't mean that to seem like a knock on him specifically. It's just the reality of it. Like, if Cody Bellinger were Otani, you know, that'd be great because then there'd be two of them if cody bellinger were otani you know that'd be great because then there'd be two of them which really feels like there are four you know there are two otanis it's like having four guys so you know once you're out of that particular race and i think yamamoto is sort of a step down from from that value from an otani perspective but is is certainly i think was viewed appropriately as like the marquee pure

starter on the market. It's not that there aren't players to spend money on. It's not that there aren't, you know, guys who I think are going to sign lucrative contracts, but you don't then turn around and say like, well, we're just going to deploy $710 million elsewhere because, first of all, it takes a lot more guys to do that and you already have a roster um and i don't know you know you could sign a couple of them i guess but um i think that if you're you've made the case to ownership and then you go back and you're like well let us have three of these dudes they're going to be like well is it exactly the same and so i think you're right that it puts it puts teams in a different spot from a roster construction perspective than they would have been if they had been able to secure Otani's services, which is like, you know, wow, what a brave take.

You know, what a bold statement. But it's true. Yeah. Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave as the Eric Andre show meme goes? Yet so brave as the Eric Andre show meme goes. I was reading some Imanaga rumor roundups at MLB Trade Rumors, and they mentioned teams that were interested in him, the Red Sox, the Giants, the Mets, the Cubs. Also, the Yankees, maybe not as interested in him, but connected to him, maybe more interested in Blake Snell. I'm sure that would go over great with the New York fan base. But those are among the teams, at least, that I think would also be in this conversation for the onuses on them, the pressures on. Right. Because you have the Blue Jays, who I think recently said they want to add at least one other player. I mean, bringing back Kiermaier and signing IKF, that's probably not going to quench the appetite for more high-profile players. And then the Mets just signed Harrison Bader.

They were obviously in the Yamamoto bidding. And again, it wasn't clear which direction the Mets would be going this offseason. So we weren't really sure whether they were going to go all in and try to compete again or whether this was going to be kind of a bridge year or whatever you want to call it. And then the Giants, of course, after missing out on so many prominent free agents, there's a lot of interest in landing more of them. They did get Lee, of course, and they've made some other more minor moves, but still probably have some money to spend and certainly interest among the fans and landing a big free agent fish. And then you have the Red Sox. We just talked about them in the context of the Giolito signing and the sale trade. Their chairman set expectations for a big offseason because he said that they were going to go full throttle.

Right. Which I feel like it's probably not the best idea to set expectations for a super active offseason because that's happened in other cases where ownership or front office people have said, yeah, we're going to sign at least. What was it with the Blue Jays an off season or two ago when they sort of said, yeah, we're going to get at least, you know, two or three big people. I forget what the details were, but that really raises expectations. And that's good if you make good on it, if you deliver, but if you don't, then you've set yourself up to be a punching bag because everyone will just be bringing up full throttle. And, you know, trading for Von Grissom and signing Lucas Giolito probably doesn't qualify as full throttle. Or if it does, that doesn't speak highly of your horsepower, I suppose.

So, yeah, if you say something like that, then you better really back it up. So, yeah. And, you know, the Yankees are probably on this list too, right? Even after getting one Soto, which is a huge move, but I think we said at the time, like they, they got to add some pitching and they tried with Yamamoto too, and they came up short there. So they really have to land some prominent pitcher or else the Soto trade will seem insufficient. I think there are teams that have the capacity to create expectations for themselves by what they say, right?

We're going full throttle. We're going to sign a bunch of guys. We have, you know, they can set their own expectations and then it's up to them to sort of live up to those expectations or fail to meet them. And then there's like the Yankees where there are always expectations, right? those expectations or failed to meet them and then there's like the yankees where there are always expectations right and that's going to be true regardless of what cashman says how grumpy he gets at jam meetings um like they're just going to be expectations and particularly when it does appear that you are making like a full-throated effort to secure a free agent services and then

he goes elsewhere you've tipped your hand that you think you have needs right like you don't go after yamamoto if you don't think you need a yamamoto and everyone needs pitching and that that was part of my difficulty in preparing for this because you were like i want to ask you about it and i was like well everybody needs pitching like even the people who don't think they need pitching probably need a little like they should get a little more pitching it's like that bit in oceans 11 i like to reference, like you should just go get one more. But, you know, by pushing so hard and seemingly offering such a lucrative contract, if we are to take them at their, you know, leaked word to Yamamoto, like they are identifying that they also need more in the way of pitching. So they are definitely on that list, both by their own admission and then just by our own assessment of the roster.

It's like, yeah, you need a little more pitching, guys. You need some more pitching. Yeah. Okay. Are there any other teams we didn't mention in that conversation? The Seattle Mariners. No, they do need like two-thirds of an outfield, but we can think of them later. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. All right. So I guess the only other significant transaction that's happened is just aftershock to a transaction we already talked about in Atlanta signed Chris Sale to an extension. So good news for the Atlanta Braves Foundation. It's 1% and also for Chris Sale. So this is a two-year, $38 million deal. So he gets $16 million in 2024, $22 million in 2025. And then there's a club option for 2026. So we talked last time when we talked about the trade, I expressed some surprise that he had not tried to leverage his no trade clause into getting his option picked up or some sort of extension.

And he heard you. Yeah. I wonder whether it was a condition. It just, you know, he said, you got to give me some sort of extension in order to get me to do this and that it just got done after the trade or whether it wasn't contingent on this extension. It was just a separate thing. I haven't seen reporting about that yet. One way or the other. Yeah.

I think what happened was he listens to our podcast and he was like, oh, my God, Ben is right. I should have done that. Yeah. I got to get on the blower right now. When we have discussed the Braves Foundation in the past, we have joked you know, joked, joked doing a joking thing, that they might be a front for a criminal enterprise of some sort.

And I was like 99% joking, 1% serious, and I want to change my ratio slightly, only slightly, but now I'm like 95% joking and 5% serious. So anyway, that's just a thought I keep thinking. What are you guys up to?

Are they creating a heat ray that will destroy us all? Who knows? I enjoy this bit. I know that there are Atlanta fans who get a little sensitive about this. We're not really serious. And also, they're not the only team that does this. I know. The Dodgers have a foundation

that Shohei Otani is donating to as part of his deal, right? It's such a staple of the Braves extension. And they've signed so many players to extensions, and they always break the news themselves. And the press release always includes that little bit about the Braves foundation. And so, everyone notices that. I know that they are not necessarily unique here. You know, they felt so unsettled by passing, breaking the news of the trade that they had to do an extension just to like have the PR team get back on even footing, right? To not feel off kilter and have something that they could break themselves. You know, I think that that was definitely part of the motivation.

Do Bravestones get mad about the Bravestone Foundation thing? I've seen some slight touchiness, perhaps. You guys don't have to be touchy about that. We can go back to telling you you shouldn't do the chop anymore if you want to get touchy about something. Sure. Yeah, so I wonder if this extension did have something to do with the no trigger. Just because why would you why the timing is so

close yeah yeah if you are the Braves why would you feel the the need or the desire to do that I mean maybe they just really believe in Chris Hale and they just want to keep him around but yeah given his health durability track record you'd think that you you might be content to kind of just give it a year and see how he does, right? And then there was a club option, right? So they had the option literally to keep him and they decided to kick that can down the road and give him another guaranteed period.

So I don't know. Maybe it's just to make him happy. Maybe it was part of the trade. Maybe they just really like Chris Hale and they just want to keep him happy. Maybe it was part of the trade. Maybe they just really like Chris Hale. They just want to keep him around. There's considerable uncertainty with him, as we discussed, but evidently they like what they see there. Maybe the Braves Foundation is running low on funds

and they needed an infusion. Could be, yeah. And I guess like Max Freed is going to be a free agent, as is Charlie Morton. So there's already some uncertainty there. So, you might as well keep someone around if he's healthy, hopefully. Hopefully. Hopefully.

Yep. Yep. Okay. We shouldn't neglect Harrison Bader, you know. Yeah. I guess we shouldn't. We shouldn't. Harrison Bader is a met there.

We did it. Yeah. I don't know what else. He's a very good defender when he's healthy. If he hits, it'll be nice. There you go. There's my Harrison Bader's a Met there. We did it. Yeah. He's a very good defender when he's healthy. If he hits, it'll be nice. There you go. There's my Harrison Bader analysis. There'll be more fan graphs tomorrow.

It'll probably have more words than that. But, you know, I'm our only editor right now. So, you know, Chris, if it's that many words, I wouldn't fight you. Yeah. Speaking of which, if you're interested in editing fan crafts with meg yeah you can apply now for that job yeah we have a full-time associate editor role uh open john taylor left us to go run the trains at the mta that's not what he's actually doing at the mta but he left us for the mta and we're excited for him but sad for us and we need um another editor

on board so go check out the posting on fans if you are an editor and you're like, hey, I know about baseball. I'm an editor. Should I go be an editor at Fangraphs? I don't know. Let's talk about it. Yep. I will link to that. And you can help free up Meg for podcast recording if you help her with the editing load.

Yeah. I don't know what to say about the Mets because I don't know, they're trying to. Is this a step back year? I'm trying to dredge up the Jerry DiPoto terms for the Theo Epstein terms, bridge year, whatever it is. Bridge year. Gap year. That's when you go backpack around Europe, I guess. Right. Europe, I guess. Will the Mets be doing the equivalent of backpacking around Europe or will they actually be trying to win again the way they were last season, which did not go so great for them? I don't know.

I don't know either. They seem to be like in on guys, kinda, you know, that's my read from the outside is that they, I imagine that they, given their druthers would be like, yeah, it would be nice to have, you know, like one Shohei Otani on our roster or two, depending on the year it is, you know, because he's like two guys, right? Sure. He's like two guys. Yes. But I don't know, like how sincere that pursuit was. They're an odd one.

was they're an odd one. I think adding Bader is useful to them and their needs, but those are far from their only needs. So I'm not quite sure what to make of the Mets at this juncture. They seem, like I said, kind of half in, half out, and that's a weird roster building spot to be in. So we should be all in or all out. None of this step back, turn your foot around, hokey pokey. No hokey pokies.

The Mets were both in and out within the span of a single season last year. So they're exploring all of the ways, the degrees to which one can be in. Yes. Okay. So I've got some emails here. And this first one I think is particularly important that we deliver a definitive answer to this one. And this comes from Patreon supporter Now I Only Want to Triumph, who asks, the 2023 Pop-Tarts Bowl featuring an edible mascot, which was much memed,

got me thinking, which MLB mascot would be the tastiest if made edible? We've had a number of mascot conversations. Oh, yeah, we sure have. This one is less about which ones disturb us the most, although it's not unrelated, I guess, if we're talking about eating them. Yeah. Well, it's funny, right, because, you know, there's all this conversation about the Pop-Tart.

And we think of the Pop-Tart as an obviously edible mascot. And they did produce like a big Pop-Tart. They made like a big sheet cake looking Pop-Tart that people ate, which was kind of disturbing because like the jam. And once we had seen it with arms and eyes, it's like, well, it was like blood. You know, it's like, what are we? This is weird. Yeah, anthropomorphized yeah yeah there's that but then like i um like like many folks watched um the sugar bowl with the university of washington playing texas and like you know they have their steer or whatever you know with

the horns because it's like the whole thing is the horns you know like yeah hook them horns and then they're down horn firing guys right, guys. Go dogs. But I'm like, well, that's technically an edible mascot. Like if you. Yeah. Right. I don't want to do a little work. So.

Yeah. That's the thing. It's tough to establish the edibility of some of these MLB mascots. Well, and like, what is Slider full of? Is it goo? That's the thing. Yeah. Like, is it fruit goo is Slider full of? Is it goo? That's the thing. Yeah. Like, is it fruit goo?

Is he full of, is it like Gushers? You know, do you remember Gushers? I miss Gushers. God, I bet those were terrible for us, but I loved them, man. I loved Gushers. So I like imagine Slider full of Gushers. Yeah, that you can't tell exactly what they are, that they're hard to classify. If you can't figure out what they are, then would you really want to eat them?

You're taking your own life in your hands. Even if it's something like the Fanatic, right? Like, would you want to eat the Fanatic? No, the Fanatic is a gift to all of us. Orbit isn't even from Earth, right? Orbit is from another planet. So that could be toxic to human physiology. Who knows?

What if Orbit has like, you know, he, he, he, he, Orbit, don't know. But Orbit looks so friendly, right? Has a friendly face. But like, what if it's full of acid blood like um like the xenomorph and alien you know and like you break it open and then you're like exactly yeah yeah and i think we should for the purposes of this conversation we should probably put aside which ones we would feel bad about eating because this is okay this is i mean we could factor that in but the question

really was about which would be tastiest and it might just be the ones that we'd feel worst about eating would taste the best. So if someone just... I don't think George Washington would taste the best. I think he would taste pretty bad. If someone put an unidentified mascot on our plate, It tastes pretty bad. If someone put an unidentified mascot on our plate, cooked, prepared well so that we didn't necessarily know the origin, which one do we think would be? Like when you have Escargot. Yeah. Or sweetbreads.

The other white meat is one of these mascots. Oh, you mean like Blooper? Yeah. That's the thing. I'm having fun. I think we can rule out the human or humanoid ones What are we defining as humanoid? They all have faces Yeah, the ones who are like, you know, Rosie Red

No Bernie Brewer, no Mr. Met, no Mrs. Met, no Swinging Friar Well, Mr. and Mrs. Met are humanoid, but they are baseballs. But I think that's true. But that probably rules them out anyway, because we wouldn't want to eat a baseball. We wouldn't want to eat a baseball. No, but yeah, great offseason content. And I've look, I've been on record. You know, I think that cannibalism gets a bad rap.

I mean, a worse rap than it should. It should get a bad rap, to be clear. But like in an emergency starvation situation where there's no other source of calories available, I have said you can consume me like only if it's the last option available. But, you know, if you're shipwrecked, if it's a Donner party situation, you know, if you're stranded in the Alps or whatever and the Andes and you're just out of food, then, you know, if I've already, don't kill me to eat me, hopefully. Right. But, you know. But, like, if you've sustained some sort of injury.

Right. And you pass away. If I've succumbed to exposure or whatever it is. And my meat is just sitting there, then I give you. I don't care for that freezing at all, Ben. I want you to take it back. Please. I give you permission to eat my meat in that situation.

Oh, I'm so uncomfortable. But I think we could still probably rule out. Yeah. Sure. I don't want to eat Teddy Roosevelt or whatever. No. Or the fryer, right? Right. I'm not going to say we should eat the fryer.

Right. No matter how tasty he is. I love that. So I just Googled the mascots because I had to remind myself of them. And I think I have alighted on like an all-star specific mascot page. And so it has all of the presidents. Just look at George Washington's face. I just want you to look at George Washington's face while you contemplate whether you would eat that face um

okay so okay so we have eliminated from consideration the swinging fryer we have eliminated from consideration any of the presidents i think that we should eliminate from consideration paws the tiger because tigers are endangered. Yeah. And also stomper the elephant probably. For that same reason. Again, you know, if we're just considering tastiness. I mean, I did Google what does elephant taste like and apparently not great. But, you know, if we're putting moral concerns aside, we're eating a mascot anyway.

Right. But we have a buffet of mascots to choose from. It's true. And in this scenario, because we are choosing, I am saying that not only are we picking one, but we are singling one out to be murdered so that we can eat it. So like, these are the moral choices we're making ben yeah and to be clear we're not eating the person inside the suit and we're not eating we're not eating the suit either inside the pop tart no but we're not like bake the guy into the pop tart like it's like it's hansel and gretel no we're we're not eating the the friend of the mascot the performer and we're not eating the friend of the mascot, the performer, and we're not eating the costume.

We're eating what the mascot would be if it were an actual creature. Okay. So, okay. So, to recap, so far we've eliminated Bernie, the brewer's mascot, the swinging friar, all of the presidents. I'm going to put the D-backs. of the presidents i'm gonna put the um the d-backs i know have they have baxter but they also have the legends um for their legends race like it's like you know randy johnson and you know so we're eliminating them both because um they are people and because they represent people who are still alive and like i'm gonna eat mark grace he's a person yeah and we're we're also eliminating the ones that we can't classify really that could be

potentially toxic like no put a pin in that so we are eliminating maybe pause we are eliminate the because tigers endangered we are eliminating stomper i think that we have to eliminate Dinger because if there were a real dinosaur, we'd have to, like, keep it alive and study it, not eat it. Right. You know, that's important for science. Yeah, there's scientific value to Dinger. Yeah. And so, you got to keep Dinger. I love the description of Dinger on the mascot page I found is, Dinger can spin his head.

This is great. We should just always talk about mascots um okay so so that those are some that we've eliminated i would like to eliminate the following uh i want to eliminate clark the cub because he's a child you can't eat a kid that's that's wrong um i want to eliminate mr met mrs Mrs. Met. Black bear. I did research that black bears are actually appetizing, apparently. I don't think I have ever had a black bear. But if you're a hunter, if you're someone who hunts, then I guess you can also. Yeah, but I don't do that. But yeah, that's a good reason not to consume Clark as well. He's a child.

Yeah, he's a kid. Yeah. I think that we can also eliminate Oriole Bird, one, because how creatively named is that? And Pirate the Parrot, which is somehow even less creatively named than Oriole Bird. And Fred Bird, because he looks like he has some sort of disease that we don't want to pass to people. But I think that a parrot and an Oriole, like there's just not a lot of meat on the bone there. Right. Yeah. The little bird bones. So that wouldn't make much of a meal. Yeah. And an ace and screech. So we're eliminating all of the birds. Fred Bird does look like he has some kind of disease that like starts the next pandemic.

He does look like he has some kind of disease that like starts the next pandemic. Yeah. Completely. We got to eliminate screech because I think it's illegal to kill or eat bald eagles. Yeah. In the United States. I think they're endangered. I mean, like they're the mascot of the country. So that's unpatriotic to consume screech.

So we can't do that even if we wanted to. For patriotism, definitely. Because eagles are beautiful, you know we wanted to definitely because those are beautiful you know bald eagles are beautiful yeah um okay so by my accounting here is what we are left with baxter the bobcat blooper wally southpaw slider orbit i think we can eliminate for the reasons we said slugger i'm going to allow to be a lion and thus eliminate for conservation reasons. Even though he is a weird screwed up lion who has a crown coming out of his gourd. Which lions do not have in real life.

So no slugger. Orbit, we're worried about acid blood. No Orbit. Billy the Marlin, I think we have to keep in the running. I don't want to eat TC Bear, the twins mascot. Because I think a bear could kill us and what if we anger other bears in the tc bear family and then we become the subjects actually who i was thinking of tc bears the black bear i think so okay so no tc bear um how do we feel about eating seals

lucille yeah lucille's in the on the list of potential eating mascots. It has to be on the list. Yes. And, you know, you can use that blubber. Yeah. People who live in cold climates, they use all the seal. Yeah. Use every part of the seal. Every part of the calf. You can wear Lou after you eat him, probably.

Yeah. I would eliminate all of the ones that are like, what are they? No, but what if they're filled with gusher goo? What if Raymond and the Fanatic and Slider and Southpaw and Wally all are filled with different flavors of gusher goo? What if we're missing out on gusher goo? I'm not taking that chance, though. Can we kill but not eat bloopers?

Catch and release. It's like... Can we kill but not eat bloopers? I'm so upset about bloopers still to this day. We could regrow appendages, potentially, some of these creatures. Because we don't know what they are, but they could be like lizards, you know? They could regrow limbs, maybe. Or tails.

Maybe they fall under the same designation as dinger, where we don't know what they are, and so they should be studied for science. Yes. Yeah. Okay. What is Raymond? A sea dog. What is that? What is Raymond? Which one is Raymond? Raymond for the rays. Yes. Yeah. Okay. What is Raymond? A sea dog. What is that? What is Raymond?

Which one is Raymond? Raymond for the rays. Oh. Rays. What is a sea dog? I think that he's full of goo. I think he's full of blueberry goo. Oh, wait.

Oh, okay. It's an actual dog, I guess. Wait, it's a dog? That is not a dog. I'm sorry. People don't know how to design dogs. That's not a dog. When have you ever seen a dog that looks like that? Raymond is a previously undiscovered species a dog. I'm sorry. People don't know how to design dogs. That's not a dog. When have you ever seen a dog that looks like that?

Raymond is a previously undiscovered species of dog known as Canis Manta What the Fluffalus, or in layman's terms, a sea dog. So, yeah, I like dogs too much to eat any species, even if it's a previously undiscovered not at all dog looking dog i love that they were like i'm sorry i'm gonna do another swear and it's it's one of the big swears so like hydro children but i love that they were like we want to invoke what the but we don't have the courage of our convictions to say it this is mascot cowardice this is almost as cowardly as baxter. Yeah. They should still have a snake. I know the reasons. I know the backstory of Baxter,

and I'm here to say it's garbage. Replace him with a snake. And if you don't know that you can make a snake walk around and not look like a dragon, then make him a giant saguaro. Why is it not a, why is it a cactus if you can't do a snake? Okay.

So our short list. This is what happens when there are no free agent signings, by the way. So our short list. This is what happens. This is, it reminds me always. We're going to get to two emails. When we get into one of these side conversations, it reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer finds the Merv Griffin set.

Yeah, yeah. the Seinfeld episode where Kramer finds the Merv Griffin set and he and Newman are talking about types of canned foods they eat or something. And Kramer's like, we need a new format. We need to shut down and come back with a new format. Lately though, I've been buying the generic brand of wax beans. Lately, though, I've been buying the generic brand of wax beans. You know, I rip off the label, I can hardly tell the difference. We've officially bottomed out. Who's our next guest? We got no one.

We need a new format. We should shut down and retool. What about a guest host? I'll pretend I didn't hear that. If we did, it'd probably be all mascots all the time, which might be good, actually, because we tend to get a good reception to mascot segments. They're just like a never-ending supply of joy and terror. Yeah, we're sticking with the kind of conventional food types of mascots. So what do we think

about Baxter? How does Bobcat taste? I think it would taste bad. I think we should eliminate Baxter. Not like in a kill him to eat him way or a kill him to be done with him way like with blooper. Google says mountain lion and bobcat tastes like lean pork.

The flavor is mild, almost bland as far as game meat goes with a texture that is dense and meaty, similar to pork loin. Hmm. Yeah, that's maybe Baxter stays on the list for a little longer. Yeah, no, I'm eliminating Baxter. So I think our options at this point, Ben, are Billy the Marlin. Yes. And got a sad to say Mariner Moose got to be on the menu. Oh.

Right? Because I don't know that I've had moose, but I understand it's like, you know, low fat, high protein, like nutritious, pretty tasty. Yeah, I think you're right. I think. Okay. All right. We can leave the moose on there. And then what about the horse?

What about the Texas Ranger's horse? What about Ranger's Captain? Who are you naming these mascots? Ranger's Captain? Ranger's Captain is these mascots? Ranger's Captain? Ranger's Captain is an amazing driver. He has three different vehicles he uses to get around Globe Life Park and Arlington. What? He's a horse.

He doesn't need. He is a vehicle. He doesn't need a vehicle. Ben. Yeah. I'm upset. I've heard mixed things about horse. I don't know that I've eaten horse, but it's like somewhere between beef and venison, I suppose.

So, some people say it tastes okay. I mean, I like horses. I would rather not eat a horse if something else were available. This is part of why I was advocating in the early going the weird things that aren't anything because they aren't like an actual animal and they're probably filled with gusher goo as i've said on a patreon pad i think i mostly my meat consumption is is fish and poultry and so i'm kind of leaning billy the marlin you know just like yeah i think turn billy into some sashimi yeah i feel like that'd be pretty good. Marlins and danger status.

Hold on. We're gonna not extinct. Well, I know that. That's not the same question. Yeah. I think threatened. Blue marlins are listed. Are they threatened? They're vulnerable to extinction. Well, hmm. Is it a blue marlin?

There are different kinds. I mean, it is blue. It is literally blue. Oh, he's a college graduate. He went to Atlantis University. I think they're threatened but not endangered. Yeah. So, hmm. I mean, will we miss one more Marlin?

I feel like, I don't know. Wow. We're going to get emails about that. Don't let the PETA people hear about this episode because they're going to get weird. I like all fish pretty much, but I don't know that marlins are among the fish that I have had. I don't know that I've ever had marlin either. Yeah. So I'm torn between Billy the Marlin and Mariner Moose.

I think I would choose them over Lucille. Here's the thing. This is a fundamentally bizarre exercise. Yeah. And I think that we should have given more careful consideration to the possibility of the Gusher goo creatures. But given all of this. I just need more information about them. If you can assure me that they won't make me sick and you can tell me

something, I'm just, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna take that chance. Like, you know, it's a total black box, those things. They could be anything. Yeah, I guess that that is true. Could be a great delicacy. Could be nutritious, but also could be poisonous. Moose are so big like here's i mean like marlins aren't small either for that to be clear i think i'd rather eat a marlin than yeah me too i think i'm in i'm i'm in the marlin i know that that billy the marlin why do they have to have names they have to have human names it would be easier to eat them if they were nameless. It would be really funny if they were like, Billy the Marlin is a great driver. It's like, he's not a driver. The horse isn't a driver.

He's a vehicle. He's just a horse. He can ride horses. And do we have to kill them ourselves if we're going to eat them? I don't know. I don't want to tangle with a moose. That can be dangerous. Yeah, this is part of the reason

why I think we can't eat the fanatic. Marlins are tough to land, too. I feel like a marlin might impale me. So either way, that's not the easiest if we actually have to obtain this meat ourselves as opposed to having it prepared for us. I think the rays have a secondary mascot who's a stingray. Well, they have the literal stingrays.

Yeah, they have the actual ones, but they also have Stinger, sort of a secondary mascot who's a cow-nosed stingray. And stingrays don't seem that appetizing, but I think you can eat them. And maybe I would like stingray. They seem less threatening to me than, I mean, I know sting is in the name, but even so, compared to a marlin or a moose. I mean, I guess the, I don't know if this counts, but there are some mascot adjacent entities that are actual foods like the pierogies in Pittsburgh. Oh, yeah.

And the racing sausages with the brewers. Oh, my gosh. Ben. If we could do that, those are food. There are people who have been yelling at this podcast for the last 15 minutes being like right if if we if they're eligible yeah if if we could because oh i can't wait for shane to edit this episode hey shane good job bud they have pirate parrot and and they have bernie brewer right if the pierogies and the sausages count

then those would be the obvious i then those would be the obvious picks. I mean, those would be the obvious ones. Those are the obvious ones. I would vote for – I probably would do the pierogies just because I love a pierogie. I have bobbleheads of the sausages that my friend Nathan Bishop gave me. They're sitting on my bookshelf right now. They're nice. They're cool.

Apparently the Cardinals also have a secondary mascot, the rally squirrel. We're not eating squirrel. I mean, they're pretty numerous in my neck of the woods. And I haven't had squirrel, but I've read that you can consume squirrel. Yeah. But yeah, okay. I'm going to go sausages, racing sausages, if that's an option. But if they're ineligible, it's not really the spirit of the question.

Right, because they're not the primary. And they're not the primary mascot. So if we can't count those, I'm going to go with Billy the Marlin, probably. But it's neck and neck between Billy and Mariner Moose. Wow. Wow. I think I would go Billy the Marlin and then one of the ones, take my chances on a Goo Guy. You know, I'd probably be like Slider.

Come on down. That one's the one that looks the most like a fruit snack. You know? Yeah. It does. It does. 2008 does, yeah. 2008 Hall of Fame slider has been, what? This copy doesn't make any sense.

Has been rocking Cleveland Guardian fans. You're missing like a, they're missing a word in this sentence. Rosie spent her holiday baking pies and cookies for all the MLB mascots. Oh, wait one, one minute here. None were delivered due to gapper Mr Red, and Red Legs consuming everything. So really this mascot segment is a story of women's work not being appreciated. Because why is Rosie Red the one having to bake for everybody? What is going on?

She's not even a person. She's a baseball head. Oh, my God. Yeah. You know, I don't know what the San Diego chicken's current status is. That feels like cheating. Yeah. Here's the spirit of the question.

I'm going to make you contemplate eating weird shit. That's the spirit of the question. Yeah. In that, we managed to find the least weird one, which is a fish. But it is a fish with a very pointy face that has a name and went to college. So it's still, he went to Atlantis University in case anyone is wondering. You have to link to this page. It's delightful.

Yes. Yeah. If this Indigo chicken is on the menu, then that would obviously be pretty tasty to me. I like chicken. but okay. I think we've gotten to the bottom of this thing. I'm kind of hungry. I really want to know when this copy was written because the Stomper mask is Stomper. The A's mascot specifically references Pat Venditti and that's, that's delightful. Cause like A's pitcher, Pat Venditti, not her anymore. Stomper can throw a baseball with both armsity not her anymore stomper can throw a

baseball with both arms i mean like everyone can throw a baseball with both arms it's not about i mean not everyone can't but like you know like it's not about can it's about like doing it well which you know ended up being part of the problem with pat vendity if we're being honest yeah true all right if you have differing tastes oh my, my God. What a weird, what a weird group of emails we're about to get. I'm so excited. Yes. Please let us know if you have experience with any of the more exotic meats or mascots that we have discussed today. You know, like, I don't know, again, about meats. I don't know how you're deploying meats. I just don't know. All right. Here's a question from Tex, Patreon supporter, who says,

I've been fascinated by Japanese culture ever since visiting Japan, although I unfortunately went outside at baseball season and really enjoyed your recent interview with Rob Fitz. This was one of the episodes when you were away. We were talking about Japanese rooting culture, fan culture at games. And Tech says, I've seen footage of Japanese crowds at NPP games and the WBC, and I've always been envious of the fan culture. However, I've been thinking more since listening to the interview and have asked myself, would I actually prefer MLB crowds to be more like NPP crowds? myself, would I actually prefer MLB crowds to be more like NPB crowds? As many writers and commentators have remarked, one of the joys of watching American baseball outside of MLB playoffs

or other high stakes environments is the slowness of the game. I have no firsthand experience of an NPB crowd, but I imagine that I could not partake in the joy of a summer afternoon game with a beer in one hand and a scorebook in the other so easily if I were surrounded by fans performing choreographed chants. So I want to ask, would you enjoy in-person MLB regular season games more if the crowds were more like MPB crowds, or do you prefer the more relaxed, albeit less passionate atmosphere of an average MLB game? It's a good question because I have lamented the lack of that at American baseball games. And just as a spectator, as someone watching from home, let's say, I think it would be great. But actually putting myself in the stands, would I actually want that? And I think the way it works, like there's kind of a cheerleading section at MPB games where the really hardcore chanters are kind of leading the

way, setting the example, and then everyone else is following their lead. And I think also when your team is on defense, you don't chant. It's really just when they're on offense. So you get a break. It's only half the time that you're chanting. But even so, you know, I'm not a very participatory person. I don't love doing like crowd activities. You know, whenever I'm at something and people are like looking around for a volunteer from the crowd, I'm like shrinking down into my seat, you know. And I have mixed feelings about the wave, but often I have not been a wave participant. I'm the rock upon which the wave breaks. And so would I actually want to participate in this?

I would like it as a media member, as a spectator, as a neutral, but I would feel pressure probably to chant and to cheer. Yeah. And I don't know that I would want that all the time. I really like the idea of there being sort of sections that are more dedicated to the endeavor than others so that you have the ability to do it if you want to, but not if you're disinclined. Because I think that if you're in one of the cheer sections, because you're there and you want to do the dance and you want to sing the songs and you get breaks within that. So you don't have to be up and about the whole time if you don't want to be.

Well, that's a lot of fun. But you can also sort of feel the improvement of the vibe by that existing around you, even if you are not participating in it. So I think having room, like both literal and metaphorical room in the ballpark for fans to have a lot of different experiences of the park because I think what a lot of people react to adversely in U.S. crowds isn't necessarily we don't have a big organized thing, although there are people who want that. Right. I think it's that, you know, they're they're kind of stodgy. You get looks from people around you if you're being big and boisterous and you know there are people who don't want that and so again i think it's good to have it would be nice to have like sections of the park where it's understood like yeah this is like if you sit here and people are rowdy and you're grumpy about it well that's on you right this is like a buyer beware situation but i think just having sort of you know enough room breathing room to like be uh you know yourself and sort of have your understanding of fandom in place is like what we're really trying to arrive at rather than it being necessarily good that it's one particular mode of expression of fandom because i think like

you know there would be people who might be like boisterous like their inclination when they're excited about sports is to be boisterous but maybe they think like coordinating chairs are corny or something right and they wouldn't want to do that because it's not really giving expression to fandom in the way that they want to so because like i don't and you, you don't have to have the same inclination every time you go to the ballpark. Right. And that's the other thing that would be nice about having sections are sort of understood to cater to that versus ones that don't, because, you know, sometimes I, I go to the park and I'm like feeling loose and I want to have a good time and drink a

couple of beers and hang out with people. And sometimes it's more like, you know, it's a more contemplative sort of experience for me. So I think having the ability to make adjustments yourself is a really nice thing also. Yeah, as long as I didn't feel peer pressured to participate. You don't have to cheer, Ben. If I could take in the atmosphere. I think when I was a kid, I would have been into it. I think I would have found that fun.

I just, I don't know that I would want to today. But yeah, if it were opt-in, then I think that would be cool. Yeah. Yeah. If it were more obligatory, then probably I would just long for being able to just sit there quietly or zone out and not have to be part of that. I'm just envisioning you like slouching further and further down into your chair until you're literally on the ground and you're just like, don't look at me.

Don't look at me to be perceived terrible. Hiding under my seat. Yeah. Okay. Question from Logan. I listened to episode 2093 on which you stat blasted about the relative ineptitude of the AL Central versus other divisions in MLB and discuss some potential fixes. One idea, over the past decade or so, the NBA has eliminated guarantees for division winners. Previously, any division winner would

be guaranteed at worst a four seed in the playoffs, which meant a guaranteed home playoff series in the first round. This has now been eliminated. I'm wondering if something similar should be instituted in MLB, especially as interdivisional play becomes a greater part of each team's schedule. This would ideally increase incentive for a good team in a bad division to really go for it to try to get a home playoff series rather than resting on its laurels. So I have seen similar suggestions and maybe questions we've received about now that the playoff field is bigger, maybe it should be you have to clear some minimum bar. We maybe even

have answered a question like that, like, you know, you must be this tall to ride, right? You must have this many wins to enter the playoff field, something like that. But yeah, so you can't just sneak in by virtue of being in a weaker division. You have to say you have a certain number of wins wherever you are, which I guess would be kind of just going away from the entire concept of divisions, which maybe we could or should do that. I wouldn't be averse to that. But what do you think of this idea? averse to that. But what do you think of this idea? I think that this does require you to just do away with divisions entirely, right? And have it be ordered by record in each league. And then you have, as we do now, some number of teams that have a buy, some number of teams that get to host,

and then, you know, what are effectively the wild card teams i do like even though you play fewer games against division rivals now than you used to i still do really like having the like tradition of rivalry and so maybe like you keep the division structure in some way at least in terms of organizing the schedule but it doesn't end up being what ultimately determines like the record but then that's a little unfair right because it's like you know you still get to rack up wins by playing more central teams if you're in the central so we'd have to to figure that out even though you're not playing as many central games as you maybe once were but yeah so it's like, this is the trade

off. And I think that, you know, owners like the idea of having divisions and division rivals, because it inspires people to go to the ballpark, right? Like if you're a Philly fan, and you get to go to the ballpark to see them, like, try to take it to the Mets, like that means something to you, potentially in a way that like, you know, seeing them beat up on the Mariners maybe wouldn't. So we'd need to think about how to preserve that aspect of it. Cause I do think that's a meaningful part of the experience for some people, but it is, you know, it is kind of frustrating that teams that are really good and are pushing hard and want to win and are trying to do well because they're competing against other tough teams in their division end up you know on the outside looking in and then you have like whatever the centrals

produce although sometimes they produce good teams too but yeah you know that can feel pretty frustrating would those teams you know in the al east push quite as hard as they do if they didn't have like the concentration of talent that was the East? I don't know. That's a good question too. So you got to factor that part in, but yeah, I don't know. Yeah. And as you were saying, I, even a division being weak on the whole doesn't mean that the division winner is necessarily bad. And Joshian was making this point recently. He did an edition of his newsletter about the Royals and how with the Royals making some moves this winter, everyone's just been saying, oh, well, AL Central, right? Might as well go for it. But not necessarily because you still have to be a pretty decent team to win that division,

or you usually have. He calculated the average AL Central champion over the last five full seasons has gone 93 and 69, winning at least 91 games in four of those seasons. So it's not like you're going to win that division probably with like 86 wins or something, you know? So even if the rest of the division is not so strong, that will give that team that aspires to be the champion less incentive to be as good as it could. And yeah, some of those wins, that total is going to be bolstered by the fact that it's beating up on weaker competition in its own division, but it's not that low a bar to begin with if you're the

champion of that division as opposed to a wildcard team. Well, and I do think that there's something to be said for like, you know, part of what we're saying when we say, well, yeah, you're a team like the Royals, like you may as well go for it. It's not just that they're in a weak division, although that's definitely part of it, or that you can, you know, win the Central with 70 wins. But I think that if you're able to capture, like, unexpected positive variance if you're one of those teams, the impact of that positive variance is more significant than it is, you know, if you're in the AL East, right? Like, if the Royals, with all their signings, have managed to kind of capture, you know, five more wins than we expected them to have by virtue of who they brought in. Like, that might be enough in the

central, and it wouldn't probably be close to enough in the east. So, like, you know, like, you're right. It's not like you have a 60-win team securing that division, but I think you're better able to capitalize on sort of positive variance. Okay. Question from Greg, Patreon supporter. Obviously, we can have Otani the hitter while Otani the pitcher is rehabbing. Could it ever be reversed? Is there a circumstance where hitting wouldn't be possible, but throwing and fielding would still be okay. Just a hypothetical want to see two-way Otani back as soon as possible. And yeah, I think this could happen. My response was if he had some issue with like his left arm or wrist, his non-throwing arm,

something that wouldn't prevent him from wearing a glove while he's on the mound, but would prevent him from, say, rotating his wrist or something the way you do when you swing. I don't know what the exact issue would be, but I could conceive of something, certainly. And I emailed Glenn Fleissig at the American Sports Medicine Institute and sent him this question. And he said, I certainly can see a hypothetical situation where a person can throw but not bat. For instance, certain injuries in the lead arm or in the trunk may prohibit batting, but be okay in throwing. And I guess we've seen that sometimes with pitchers who are instructed not to swing, right?

So they just stand up at the plate, but they are pitching in that game. So, yeah, that could be done. Yeah, like what's his name with the Mets? That guy. Yes, that Sam wrote about. Yeah. Was that Robert Gesellman? It was.

It was, yes. Steel trap up here. Yeah. All right. I wonder if he's filled with gusher goo. That makes me, Pop-Tarts are way better unpopped, right? It's been a while since I had a Pop-Tart, but they're better raw, right? Like a uncooked Pop-Tart, I feel like is far superior to a cooked Pop-tart. Is that controversial? I don't know. I'm sure people agree with you there.

But I think most people prefer them popped. Well, and by that, I mean like warm. I think most people like them warm. Don't most people like pop-tarts warm? I mean, I assume it's intended to be popped and warmed. But, yeah, I always found it to be better pre-popped much as i would eat billy the marlin raw probably i think i would do the same for for a pop tart oh now i'm just imagining like a pop tart with like a little wasabi on it and seeing how that goes i'm not

going to tell you that i like never ate pop tTarts because that's not true. But they're so sweet, Ben. You know, they're just so, so sweet that it wasn't like my go-to. I was more of I've always been more of a savory breakfast person because it's so sweet. Oh, boy. Last one from Michael. Is that because it took us an hour to talk about mascots? Is that why it's the last one? Maybe we should have ended with the mascot question.

No, I think. Should we end on that, the most deranged question? Or to answer the most deranged one and then go back to more or less normal baseball business? Okay. Michael, Patreon supporter. This is a popular genre of questions. I have an idea to reward teams for leaving in their starting pitchers. We get a lot of suggestions.

How do you incentivize teams to leave in starters longer or penalize teams for pulling starters early? It's something I've been thinking about since watching the Cricket World Cup. The inspiration comes from the severe fielding restrictions

implemented in the power play during the first 10 overs of 50 total of international cricket matches to incentivize scoring. What if teams that removed their starter before the seventh inning were penalized by losing a fielder until the seventh? This would force them to balance the third time through the order penalty against the cost of the reliever having to pitch with one fewer fielder. There would be all kinds of strategic considerations with which fielder to drop, which pitchers you'd want to use in this situation, etc. Other than standard traditionalist arguments and concerns about messing with stats, what's the downside here about just

pulling a fielder if a team wants to take a pitcher out earlier. My first thought is that this is perhaps too punitive. Yeah. Like it's too strong a reaction. You'd probably end up picking an outfielder, right? You'd probably pick an outfielder. Yeah, you'd take your left fielder or something. Yeah, and try to shade guys sort of up the alleys

and then see what they can do out there just because of where balls get hit but um it feels a little too punitive i mean i guess you get a guy back does he just keep batting you know i guess you don't have to take him out of the lineup you just don't let him field right you effectively have like kind of two dhs for a second yeah maybe i don't know i don't know how that works whether you just skip them in the lineup or yeah what it does it feels a little too strong but i do think it would be it would really inspire teams to think carefully about whether they need to pull a guy yeah because boy you would feel even if you know you were able to to do it such that you know you felt like you had

optimized as much as possible you'd feel naked out there you know yeah i have a vague memory of a long ago episode where sam and i tried to calculate what the impact of removing a fielder would be and i think we concluded that like it would be big enough that it would make up the difference between like a bad team and a good team or something like it was. I think it's a pretty meaningful. It would be a meaningful action to impose on teams. Yeah, it would be a big thing. Big babbit spike if you removed a fielder, even if you compensated for it and shaded and, you know, pull your worst fielder. Some teams might be hurt less than others,

but yeah, it would be a big penalty to the point where, yeah, I think teams would be hesitant to do this. So it would work. Like if the goal is to make teams leave their starters in longer, then I guess this would do it because this would really hurt them if they didn't. I mean, you know, going from your tired starter, your third time through the order starter to a fresh reliever is a boost, but it would probably be pretty nullified by taking away a fielder. So it would achieve its stated goal. But I think, yeah, it's probably too drastic. And again, with all of these proposals, my response is always just like, I think the better idea is just to limit the number of, I'm kind of a broken record on this subject. But I just feel like that's the obvious solution if you really want to do this in the least obtrusive way, the least unnatural way.

Just lower the limit on the number of active pitchers allowed on the active roster. And then you kind of elegantly... Yeah, you force the issue. Directly, yeah. And you give some freedom to teams in what they want to do about it. But yeah, it doesn't change

the fabric of the game quite as much as this would because that's one of my concerns is just that you'd really be playing under pretty dramatically different conditions for part of the game. The strategic implications would be kind of cool. Yeah, that part would be fun. It would be a different look. And, you know, you would boost offense, I guess.

I mean, there'd be more base hits and base runners. And maybe those are things that people like. But, yeah, I just don't love playing a large part of the game under certain conditions and then changing the rules. That's one of the things I object to with the zombie runner. It's just such a different game, and the scoring is way out of whack relative to the first nine innings. And people have actually suggested, and maybe we've discussed, instead of the zombie runner, which people always write in like, well, this would be a better way to break the tie. And my default is always like, but we could just have ties. Yeah, just put it back.

But also, if you were going to do something, then people have said, well, you could just remove one fielder each extra inning or something or beyond a certain extra inning. each extra inning or something or beyond a certain extra inning and then maybe you'd you know scoring would be higher and you'd get the game over with quicker but it would be maybe less weird in a way like i'm not a purist traditionalist about this like oh there's a certain number of lineup spots and there's a certain number of fielding positions and there's this symmetry to it. There is, but that wouldn't be my biggest objection. I just, you know, it's a pretty drastic step to take. And that's something that other sports have that maybe baseball doesn't have so much, just like an equivalent of a power play, right? Like, I mean, you've talked about a baseball penalty box and how that would work, but, you know, maybe that's kind of a fun thing that other sports have that baseball doesn't have. It's just like, oh, conditions are different for X number of minutes. We can take advantage of the other team being shorthanded or, you know, pulling the goalie or whatever it is. Like you can't, baseball isn't really elastic in that same sense as opposed to like when it comes to the number of players

who were on the field at any given time, you know, the rules say like you have to have a certain number. So maybe it'd be a good thing. Maybe it would be entertaining. I don't know. But if my only goal here was to leave starters in longer as opposed to just, you know, having this be a Savannah Bananas style experiment. Right.

Then I think there are ways to do that without tampering quite so drastically. I think that that's right. watching some amount of hockey, particularly in the playoffs relative to baseball, is that it does invite an experience that is what I imagine doing cocaine is like. And so maybe this would help to replicate that in the baseball postseason. Who could say? Not me, because I don't actually know. That will do it for today. Thanks, as always, for listening. You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild. The following five listeners have already signed up and pledged some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going, help us stay ad-free, and get themselves access to some perks. Patrick Ferguson, Matthew Gardner, Molly McCullough, Jeremy Ashton, and J. Wade Edwards. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include, well, for one thing, shoutouts at the end of episodes.

But also, access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, access to monthly bonus episodes and playoff livestreams, prioritized email answers, discounts on merch, and ad-free fancrafts memberships. And so much more. Check out all the offerings at patreon.com slash effectivelywild. And if you are a patron, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email, send your questions and comments to podcast at fangraphs.com. You can rate, review, and subscribe to Effectively Wild on iTunes and Spotify and

other podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectivelywild. You can follow Effectively Wild on Twitter at EWpod. And you can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at r slash effectivelywild. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We will be back with one more episode before the end of the week. Talk to you soon. How can you not be pedantic? A stab blast will keep you distracted. This is Effectively Wild.