Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2171: The Tipping Point

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about Simeon Woods Richardson’s podcast-approved use of written notes, whether David Fry or Jurickson Profar has the most delightfully surprising stats, Kevin Pillar’s post-White Sox hot streak, MLB’s offensive outage in May, Blake Snell and other slow-starting late-starting starters, Matt Waldron’s knuckleball usage and Jeremiah Estrada’s strikeout streak, and […]

What's the greatest podcast of all? If you love the game of baseball It's Effectively Wild It's Effectively Wild With Ben Landbeck And Ben Reilly In Meg Rally Hello and welcome to episode 2171 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of The Ringer, joined by Meg Rally of Fangraphs. Hello, Meg.

Hello. You know how I came down on player usage of note cards in-game recently? I'm fed up. I've had enough of outfielders and pitchers and even batters now whipping out cards with notes, with scouting reports on them, reminding themselves what they should do or look for in-game. But here's a use of notes by a player that I can get behind, that I can fully endorse and improve of. This is a tweet by Twins beat writer Doyoung Park.

Simeon Woods Richardson brought a handwritten sheet of notes into his post-game interview to make sure not to forget his teammates' big moments that contributed to the win. Aw. How heartwarming is that? That's nice. That's adorable. That is beautiful. It was his first Major League win, and he didn't want to forget to shout out and thank anyone,

and so he brought some notes with him. How nice is that? I love that. Consulting notes in that context, totally fine with that. Pre-game, post-game, breaks between innings, totally fine with that. This is the best use of notes that I can conjure. So well done, Simeon Woods Richardson. Everyone should use notes in their post-game interviews and not even notes to remind himself of Bull Durham style cliches or anything, but just to say thank you, just like he was accepting an Oscar

or something and he didn't want to leave anyone out. I think that that's very nice. I think you're still a weird grump about your other note aversion, but I'm glad that there is a form of note that we can all kind of get behind. And that's so nice. What a nice, what a conscientious guy. The best thing, though, that I think Simeon Woods Richardson has done recently is not win a game, but be removed from a game. Because when he was pulled from last Wednesday's game, which ended up being a Twins win, Simeon Woods Richardson did not get credit for that win. Stephen Okert, who entered the game in relief of Simeon Woods Richardson, he got the win. And you know how he entered that game?

He entered in style because he rode the bullpen cart in Nationals Park and he tipped the driver. And we talked about this on episode 2168. And we said sort of idly, we should try to talk to the bullpen car driver or someone should try to talk to it. Wouldn't it be nice to hear from the bullpen car driver? Well, of course, one of our listeners and Patreon supporters is a friend of the bullpen car driver and said, this is info. You should talk to him and told the bullpen car driver, hey, the podcast I listened to is talking about you. You should go on there. And one thing led to another. And guess what? We've got a guest today. It's Keith Morris Rowe, one of the Nationals, as we've learned, seven bullpen car drivers, but the one who was

called upon that day, who was on duty when Stephen Okert flagged him down and got in and gave him the $5 tip. So it's a big get for us, podcast exclusive interview. He has done, I think, one other print interview, but that is it. We have landed Keith Morris Rowe, Nationals bullpen cart driver and Stephen O'Kurt tip recipient. So never let it be said that we don't book big guests here at Effectively Wild. Yeah, I mean, like only the best and most prestigious guests. And people might hear me say that and think, Meg, that's kind of dismissive of the guests you have. And I'm here to say, you do not know how highly I regard whimsy

if you think that I meant that in a derogatory way. So we will hear all about how bullpen cart driving works and that fateful inaugural drive of an actual player that Keith got to do and the first tip ever coming up a little later on this episode. A little bit of banter before we get there. This is a topic that I almost brought up last time, and I'm glad I waited for this time because both of these guys homered on Tuesday after we last recorded. And they've been homering and hitting a lot. David Fry and Jerickson Profar.

Yeah. Two of the best hitters of 2024, just as we all predicted. Now, Fry had a funny face plant on the bases that you may have seen set for this family barbecue tweet on Tuesday it was one of these where you just slide and end up far short of the base and at least in the still image they tweeted he's just face down yeah totally literally face planted it's very funny but he has not face planted in any other respect this season. He has been kind of incredible, and so has Dierkson Profar, and Fry has been a big part of the Guardians being red hot lately. Profar has helped prop up the Padres. They're a winning team in part thanks to Dierkson Profar's efforts.

Which of these is more surprising or more delightful that they've done this thing. Like these guys had roughly the same projections according to the fan craft steps charts entering the season. I think Fry had a 95 WRC plus projected and Profar was at 96. So they were both projected to be a little bit below average at the plate. And yet, here is what has happened. David Fry. David Fry. We just got to marvel at these offensive stats for a second here. He is hitting.357,.492,.622.

Yeah. That's a. 212 WRC+. Yeah, man. Almost two wins above replacement in 38 games and 128 plate appearances. So if we just, let's set the minimum at 120 plate appearances just to make this fun and interesting. David Fry, best hitter in baseball this year. Forget about Aaron Judge.

Forget about Shohei Otani. Forget about Aaron Judge. Forget about Shohei Otani. Forget about Kyle Tucker. No, it's the David Fry show. He is head and shoulders above anyone else WRC Plus-wise. Judge is at 186 in more than 100 more played appearances, but forget about that for a moment. And then Jerickson Profar, also with that same minimum set, And then Jerickson Profar also with that same minimum set, a top 10 hitter in baseball, number nine, actually, with a 170 WRC plus, 323, 419, 497. And he's done that in 58 games and 229 plate appearances. Which of these is blowing your mind more? Ah, Ben. Ah, Ben.

Ah, Ben. How can I choose? How can I possibly? Almost equally inconceivable. Yeah. I mean, I think that the thing that maybe, maybe pushes it into David Frye territory for me is, first of all, he's playing so many positions, Ben. Yeah. You know, David Fry has played 12 games as a catcher, 12 games as a left fielder, and more lately after Kwon's injury, right?

10 at DH, 8 at first base, and 3 at third base. And like, I don't, I, what? Ben, Ben, Ben. Yeah, that's a very unusual combination of positions and not just one-offs, but I just, I love anyone who regularly plays catcher and also regularly plays other positions. Yeah, Dalton Varsha walked so David Prye could run.

Yeah, yeah, right. And Profar used to be known for that, for positional versatility and flexibility. A little less so lately. Yeah. And I guess it's maybe partly skill set and partly just that that hasn't been a need. But he's basically just been a left fielder this year with a couple games at first base. He's had that skill set in the past, though. But yeah, I think you're right. On the one hand, Fry, smaller sample at the base. He's had that skill set in the past, though. But yeah, I think you're right.

On the one hand, try smaller sample at the plate. So feels flukier in that sense. Not that that makes it less fun. Yeah. Yes. Totally flukier. Yes. And yet even more extreme, even better numbers and more productive in that smaller sample and doing it with greater defensive versatility and value. It's really impressive. And who would have expected these breakouts, whatever we're calling them? Because with Profar, he's 31 years old, right? And he is in his 11th major league season.

Now, he was a number one prospect in baseball. Sure. And so I guess you could say he's finally fulfilling all of his prospect potential. I don't know if that's what's happening here. He's had a long career and an okay career, but he's been pretty average or a bit below at the plate, which is why he was projected to be that again. And yet, this is happening. And Fry, there was less to go on. He didn't have nearly as much major league

service. This is his second season in the majors. He was a rookie last year, but he was an old rookie. He's 28 years old. Yeah, he's 28 now. He's 27 as a rookie, yeah. And he was never a top 100 guy or a big prospect. So on the one hand, I guess it's less surprising that Profar would have done this at any point in his career, but still pretty surprising that it's coming this long after he was that hyped prospect. And then Fry, meanwhile, was never a prospect like that, which makes it also strange. So it's really weird and wonderful. It's weird. It's weird and wonderful. You know, like Fry is out here making the minimum. Jerks and Profars signed for literally $1 million, but just $1 million. Like what a,

what a time, Ben. What a time for these, for these guys. It's very exciting. I mean, it's the kind of thing where I, I want to bring people's attention to it so that they can enjoy it while it lasts. But I also don't because I worry that it'll be like, you know, it's our very special particle that behaves differently when observed. Kind of like when I was watching the Mariners play the Astros last night and Presley melted down and I was like, see, he does that. I was right. My very special particle. So, but yeah, like good for those guys. It's probably, you know, one of the best stretches of either of their careers that they will have, but that doesn't make it less enjoyable. You know, we should appreciate it for the moments and memories it's giving us now, even if those aren't likely to persist all that long into the future.

Who cares? Yeah. Profar, the last couple seasons, has been a late signer. Right. So he signed late February with the Padres this year, and he signed late March with the Rockies last year. He keeps finding his way back to the Padres. But, yeah,

it was almost like, is Dirksen Profar going to sign anywhere? Does anyone want Dirksen Profar? Now everyone's like, oh, wish we had this version of Dirksen Profar. The thing is, obviously, you don't need us to tell you that this is unsustainable to some extent. And, you know, you look at David Fry's 412 BABIP and everyone can kind of do the math here, but they have even the underlying numbers have been pretty solid. Sure. Not this spectacular, obviously, but they have almost identical ex-WOBAs expected weighted on base averages, 376 for Profar and 379 for Fry. 379 for Fry. So even if you stripped away some of the luck and the overperformance, the base numbers are actually pretty darn good. Profar has walked almost as often as he's struck out. He's never been a big strikeout guy, but he's taken pitches. Fry is, you could say the same about him. He's walked almost as much as he struck out and he walks a ton and he's like

really selective at the plate, but in a good way, selective aggression, like he does swing at pitches in the zone. Yeah. And he doesn't chase a lot. So it seems like he does have some real pitch selection skills there. Will that continue to translate into this sort of offensive performance? Probably not, but you know, Stephen Kwan will be back and they won't need that as much. But I love especially like a stopgap all-star like that. Your starter goes down, you're like, what are we going to do?

Oh, I guess we're going to play this guy a lot. And then it turns out that that guy is way better than the guy that you were lamenting the loss of, even if it's just for a little while until the pixie dust or whatever wears off. But yeah, this is kind of awesome. And maybe they were underappreciated. Fry, like, he was not bad last year. He was an above average hitter in his also small sample. But, you know, there's some skills there. So this is really cool.

Enjoying both of these guys as long as this, as long as this lasts, as long as David Frye keeps out hitting Aaron Judge, that'll be fun. Out hitting Aaron Judge. Oh my God. I would tell, I would tell people about that for a long time. If I were David Frye, I would be like, you know, retired and regaling folks at the grocery store about the stretch where i out hit aaron judge and like aaron judge has been on quite the heater lately you know as as all players challenged by jjf er and uh and yet here's david fry look at that david fry i said they had almost identical pre-season projections 96 wrc plus for profar for Fry. They have raised their rest of season projections to an almost identical degree too.

Now 118 for Profar, 119 for Fry. Almost as good as Aaron Judge and David Fry lately. And this might be even funnier. Kevin Pillar in May. Okay. Kevin Pillar in late April was designated for assignment by the White Sox. Yes. Because they signed Tommy Pham and they needed a roster spot.

And so they outrighted Pillar to AAA and he's a veteran. So he could just elect to become a free agent, right? Refuse the assignment. Yes, I refuse. And the Angels signed him, another team in need of help. Mike Trout out. Okay, let's go get Kevin Pillar. Kevin Pillar for the Angels.

17 games, 61 plate appearances, 431, 459, 759. That is a 243 WRC plus just behind David Fry's 258 in May and Aaron judges two 77 in May. So minimum 60 plate appearances in May. Kevin Pillar has been the third most productive batter in baseball on a basis after the white socks who have the worst offense on the season and in this month, cut him loose. Love that.

And look, sorry to pile on the white socks, but that's just funny. It's funny. Just, you know, to their credit, like they went and got Tommy Pham and they were trying to get a credible player. And, you know, Tommy Pham, he's hustling for them. He knows no other way to play. And he's been fine for that.

He's been good for them above average but they cut loose babe polar over here yeah that's just that's got a sting if you're a white socks fan because i saw a lot of jokes about like where kevin kevin polar cleanup hitter for the white socks like this is how far we've sunk like this is how low we've gone. And then I think even worse than that, though, is when you jettison Kevin Plar and he transforms into one of the best series in baseball for a month. I suspect the following, Ben. I know a couple of White Sox fans and to a person, they're funny people. You know, they're funny people. They have a sense of perspective. And I think that they are pretty clear-eyed about the club that they root

for. Look, I'm not going to say that they are too a person able to find the humor in this moment, but I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of them can because it's just like, look, sometimes this is how the rotten cookie crumbles in a season that is, gosh, you hope forgettable. You know, the best possible outcome is that you forget it even happened and you wake up on opening day next year and you're like, that was weird amnesia that I had. I just don't even have any recollection of last season at all. So I think that they are probably entering.

If they are not in this zone already they are likely to uh reach it soon where they're just like look man this this um do swear this shit's funny it's got to be funny i remember the this funny zone as a mariners fan yeah um and it was better because what's the expression first is tragedy then is far I don't know. The farce is a little easier to enjoy sometimes, so there you go. Yeah. Yeah, if you're a white, you've got to have Gallo's humor to get through this. Not Gallo humor. That's when you joke about Joey Gallo's 138 batting average.

But Gallo's humor just takes some solace in just laughing at your situation and saying, well, it can't get worse, hopefully, probably. Yeah, this is maybe rock bottom. Just laughing at your situation and saying, well, it can't get worse, hopefully, probably. Yeah, this is maybe rock bottom. You lose Kevin Plarr and he goes on to just tear it up for a month. Tear it up? I mean, look, sometimes out of the – I was trying to do a David Fry out of the frying pan into the fire thing. Not a small fry this season. Yeah, I was refraining from that.

No, that's – I mean, that's better than mine. Is it objectively good? That's a separate question, Ben. You know, we're not here to answer everything. We've got to leave some things for our listeners to come to conclusions on on their own. Bigger fish to fry, squid is fried. I don't know. We'll workshop it. We need a, okay, okay, okay. So stick with me. So like we need Mike Trout to come back healthy first. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. That's the first thing. And then he, and then David Fry in his capacity as a catcher, which again, like this guy's just playing all over the place, right? He has to throw Trout out at second base while he's trying to steal. Although I imagine that whatever he may have said at the beginning of the year, when Mike Trout comes back,

it may be a little more cautious with the base running. But then, and then it could be a fish fry. Because, because, because Ben, because David Fry plays for the guardians who are in the Midwest. And you know,

who loves a fish fry? Midwesterners. They are obsessed. In fact, yes. You are obsessed, in fact. Yes. You made it make sense there. Crushed it. Yeah.

It's even more notable that these guys are raking the way they are because offense is down. And we talked about this probably in April. It seems like maybe the ball's not flying so well, but let's wait and see. And May hasn't helped. May has been worse in that respect. Joe Sheehan just did an entry in his newsletter about this. It's pretty rough out there for hitters. Joe wrote, and obviously a few games left in the month, but

in May, teams are averaging just 8.24 runs per game between both teams, obviously. That drops to 8.06 in the first nine innings. For the entire season, MLB teams are scoring 8.2 runs a game when not placing a free runner on second, which would be the lowest mark since 1978. And the good news is strikeouts not up. It does seem like they've managed to get a handle on the strikeout rise. At least there's still a lot of strikeouts, but the increase is not continuing the way it was. But it's really an outage of power, what we call a power outage typically, on contact. And that makes you think maybe it has something to do with the ball without being too conspiracy minded here. We've certainly seen that happen many a time. And thus, all manner of

contact production is down. And OBP is way down to the low 300s league wide. And homers are down, of the low 300s league-wide, and homers are down, but also other extra base hits. All hits really are down. In fact, the league average BABIP right now is 288, which is extremely low, and granted, it could and probably will increase as the season goes on, but hasn't been as low as 288 over a full season since 1992, I think, before probably a previous ball juicing in that era. And again, like MLB tried to juice BABIP last year and did with some success to some extent. BABIP was up from 290 in 2022 to 297 with the shift restrictions, et cetera, last year, to 97 with the shift restrictions, et cetera, last year, but it's plummeted so far this season. And it seems like the ball's not carrying as well. Baseball savant has a day-by-day drag.

They carry on the ball tracker, and it seems like the drag is higher than early last season, at least. And so maybe we're back to like 2022 type offense, roughly after more of a spike last year. So I don't know that I've seen a whole lot of complaints about it. I've seen people noting it. There were a lot of shutouts on Tuesday, for instance,

and there were some stats going around about that. I don't know, maybe because strikeouts aren't up, people aren't panicking quite as much. But to the extent that MLB wanted to get more base runners and more balls in play and more good results on balls in play with the rules changes, that part of it just hasn't happened. I'm kind of shocked that given the numbers you're noting that we haven't heard more conspiratorial talk about the ball. It's sort of surprising to me. I don't know. Maybe the ball is like really into the NBA playoffs and it'll start, you know, really flying when it's not distracted or something like that. Maybe that's the problem. Yeah. Maybe people are just a little fatigued with being worried and wondering about the ball.

The ball's fatigued. Every year it certainly seems like the ball's fatigued. It's just common we. It is just because we've been dealing with this since 2015, almost a decade of like, how will the ball play this year? There's a part of me that's just like, here we go again. And it's not that extreme. We're not like back to 2014 pre-ball juicing or ball livelying, enlivening, whatever we want to call it. And I don't know if it's more about the seams or the drag or the bounciness and the coefficient

of restitution. It seems like guys are hitting the ball as well. They're making contact with it as well. The barrel rate is not down or anything, but barrels just aren't producing what they used to produce. And the warmer the weather gets, the more that will change. But then you'll still be comparing to warmer weather months from previous seasons. to it. But yeah, it's notable that all these offensive achievements we've been discussing occurring against the backdrop of just an overall offensive downturn. I wonder if part of it is that, you know, we have been made sort of very aware of the potential variability of the ball to your point, but like haven't, i think we have a better understanding that without any particular designs on like architecting architecting i hate it uh constructing a particular offensive

environment that there is just going to be some amount of variability season to season and so because the strikeout rate is kind of plateauing and it doesn't look like we're in a position where this is just going to be an endless rise, maybe we're settled into a spot where we're a little more comfortable with there being some variability, provided it doesn't suggest some sort of existential threat to offense. I don't know. Or maybe people are just like, it's going to get warmer. And so these numbers are going to level out at some point, even if to your point, they are being compared against other warm weather months. I don't know. Maybe that has something to do with it. Yeah. And I don't think the ball is dead exactly. Historically speaking, I wouldn't

say, oh, the solution is to juice the ball. The solution ideally would be to bolster other aspects of offense. Because I think if you just look at home runs on contact or even just home runs per game, it's in line with history. I mean, it's not extremely low. It's not extremely high. You could even say this is sort of maybe a Goldilocks zone for how juiced, how lively the ball is. It's just that you almost need a juiced ball to really get robust scoring when there's so little contact being made, historically speaking.

So if we could improve that, that would be nice. Then we'd be in a real sweet spot here. So it's not like dead ball era. It's not you're the pitcher or anything. And so maybe relative to some of the previous extremes, it almost seems like, oh, it's about right. But I think if the on-base percentage were higher, if you were getting better results on balls in play, if you were seeing more singles, more other extra base hits, then I think on the whole, this might be a well-calibrated baseball. So then it becomes, well, how do we get more contact? Well, do we have to move the mound back? Do we have to limit the number of pitchers on the active roster? Like guys aren't going to

suddenly start throwing less hard. And we know that the stuff is nasty and they're throwing more and more breaking balls and moving the ball in incredible reality, almost physics defying ways. So there needs to be some remedy for that. And I don't think it's just a shift restriction, which I don't even like. You hate shift restrictions. I do. I do kind of hate shift restrictions. But I guess without those, to the extent that they helped or made that much of a difference, maybe we'd be looking at even more of an outage or nadir for Babbitt. So might be an even bigger talking point without that. So I guess we've been spared that at least. That's good. who has not seemingly been helped by this offensive downturn and who has not contributed to it as a pitcher. Blake Snell. Blake Snell is back from the IL. And as far as I know, he hasn't had any recent quotes about being a strike thrower or just wanting to throw pitches

in the strike zone as he did early in the season. But things just are still not going well for him. He and his girlfriend are about to have a baby. So I guess things are going well in the season. But things just are still not going well for him. He and his girlfriend are about to have a baby, so I guess things are going well in that respect. But pitching-wise, yeah, not so great. And it's got to be frustrating if you're Blake Snell and you spent the whole offseason waiting for someone to sign you or at least to give you the kind of offer you were expecting and thought you deserved. And then probably what you want to do is come right out of the gate and

show everyone what they're missing the way that Jerickson Profar did and say, oh, you should have broken the bank for Blake Snell. And that really has not happened. There's no one, I don't think, to this point kicking themselves and saying, oh, we missed the boat on Blake. We should assign Snell because he has a 10.42 ERA. Yeah. In five starts and 19 innings, which tells you how deep into games he has gone. He has not gone longer than four and two thirds. And his teams haven't wanted him to because it just hasn't gone well.

two-thirds and his teams haven't wanted him to because it just hasn't gone well. And so it kind of compounds things or it confirms any doubts that people may have had about Blake Snell. People are probably looking at him and saying, oh yeah, we bit a Blake Snell bullet there. Good thing we didn't sign Blake Snell to that big deal because look what happened. But it's probably almost a self-fulfilling prophecy to some extent, like the circumstances under which he signed, signing as late as he did, and then having to get ramped up at that point when everyone's already settled into their teams and is in spring training. I'm sure that hasn't helped. So, it's got to be extra frustrating after the frustration of how his offseason went to have his season start this way and almost kind of confirm that,

yeah, he wasn't a great investment and jeopardize his next free agency whenever that happens. If, in fact, he does opt out, which if he keeps going like this, maybe he won't. Maybe he won't. But then, you know, maybe he'll have something of a bounce back, you know, in the non opt out season. But season. But yeah, it's hard to separate out what of this is a potentially rapidly-onsetting decline to a profile that I think we were both pretty skeptical of versus what is just a weird off-season and that weird off-season being something he can't offseason and that weird offseason being something he can't steer out of like maybe the key to sustaining his whole deal is like a normal kind of close to normal ramp up now maybe that's belied by you know the the pandemic season and the the lockout shortens spring training and all that but

i don't know like it's It's got to give you pause somewhere because, I don't know, if you're a team that's looking to sign him, you're like, if we don't do it the day that the offseason starts and he doesn't have a completely normal spring, it's like, that's just what we get. I don't know.

I feel bad for the guy. I feel like it's our fault, you know, you and I specifically, because we've talked so much about how we don't enjoy watching him bitch, which is an opinion I stand by, but if I had known that it was going to go so disastrously, I would have maybe crowed about it a little less. Yeah. I wonder whether it puts pressure on future free agent pitchers to sign earlier or on teams to sign them if they're going

to, to avoid the late signing scenario. Again, I don't know how much the late signing is directly contributing to this, but he's not the only late signing starter who's had some struggles. Jordan Montgomery has been a lot better than Blake Snell, but hasn't been good, right? It's been up and down for sure. Yeah. And by the way, Blake Snell, 4.55 FIP, which is, again, not good in this offensive environment, but better than 10.42 ERA. Sure. Yes. Yeah. But Montgomery, yeah, on the whole has not been very good. Mike Clevenger,

another weight signing starter, not good, and then got hurt, has elbow inflammation. I guess the only exception to that this year is Michael Lorenzen, who has been quite good. Yes, he has. Holy Moses. Quite valuable. When have I ever said Holy Moses before in my entire life? Jeez. Yeah, he's been good. He has actually, I guess, like the same fit as Blake Snell.

How about that? But he's had better results in every other way. So, you know, collectively, I think all those guys, certainly the trio, maybe the quartet, are replacement level or below. So Bauman did a post earlier this year entitled How Long Can the Remaining Free Agents Wait Before Things Get Weird? And he ran through some of the history of late signing starters and how some of them did kind of crash and burn. And it was kind of a coin flip whether you were going to get a good season or not. And again, it's hard to untangle the correlation causation there. Were they late signing because there were legitimate concerns

about them that then manifested in not great performance? Or were they not great because they signed late and thus they were worse than they would have had they signed earlier and had a more normal on-ramp to the season? It's hard to say, but yeah, it has not gone great for most of the guys who were kind of buzzer-beating big league signings this season. On the mound, that is. Yeah, and like Lorenzen has, part of it I think is our expectations were different. Like he was being asked to do much less. We were like, he's going to be a starter, and then hopefully all of their other guys will come back, and he'll shift to the bullpen. He has objectively been better, but some of it, too, is like, he wasn't going to be a guy who signed a $100 million contract. He was never in that category of dude, regardless of, you know, misjudging the market or whatever. In better news, though, former Padres pitcher Matt Waldron, whom I have said we should talk about more. I said that and I'm trying to live

that because he is a knuckleballer and he just had his best start as a major leaguer. Granted, it came against the Marlins, but it counts. Seven innings, six hits, no earned runs, no runs at all, no walks, eight strikeouts. So that's his best game score as a starter. And I noted, and again, not sure whether this is correlation or causation, but highest usage rate of his knuckleball in any start as a big leaguer to this point. It was the first game in which he used his knuckleball more than half the time. He threw 55% knuckleballs in that game. And I would love if the takeaway for him, he's had four pretty strong starts in a row.

Hopefully we can get him on the podcast sometime soon because I inquired on one of the episodes you missed whether we could have Matt Waldron on the show. And I was told, oh, he wants to establish himself a bit more before he starts doing interviews. So maybe if he has several good starts in a row, reach back out. Well, he's almost there. A couple more good starts I might follow up there and hope not to jinx him. But it'd be great if the takeaway for him was, oh, I should be throwing even more knuckleballs. That's the key to success here.

That would be really fun because it's fun to have him even as a part-time knuckleballer, but as a dominant, as a primary plurality knuckleball thrower. I guess he already was a plurality knuckleball thrower, but as a more often than not knuckleballer, that'd be big, especially if he continues to pitch well. Yeah. I mean, if I were him, I'd throw it more. I'd throw it more. When he was relieved in that game, though, he was relieved by the latest relief sensation for the Padres, a guy I was not acquainted with until recently, but have become very acquainted with now. Have you followed the saga of Jeremiah Estrada, who has struck out 13 batters in a row? 13 batters in a row. That is a record.

It's not clear for sure what the all-time record is. That is certainly an expansion era record since 61. Okay. Before that, we don't have complete play-by-play, so we can't say with certainty, but it's very unlikely that anyone in those lower strikeout times would have struck out more guys in a row than Jeremiah Estrada has. So this seems to be a record. He's pitched in 12 games thus far for the Padres this season, 12 games thus far for the Padres this season, 16 and a third innings pitched, 28 strikeouts,

four walks. He has a 0.55 ERA and a 1.23 FIP. So never heard of Jeremiah Estrada until recently. He was with the Cubs briefly in each of the last two seasons. It's just undistinguished, In each of the last two seasons, just undistinguished. One of many relievers, good strikeout stuff, but walked a lot of guys and seems to have gotten the control under control this year. And now suddenly Jeremiah Estrada. I like how quickly a reliever, a pop-up reliever can become a sensation like that. Where never heard of you. Oh, you're like suddenly untouchable he was a waiver claim in november waiver claim on the one hand 13 in a row wow on the other hand doesn't that feel low

to be like the and and what a what a dumb thing for me to say right but instinctively it's like oh that doesn't feel like that many wouldn't it's it's a it's a good many you know it's a it's like, oh, that doesn't feel like that many. Wouldn't it? It's a good many, you know? It is. It's a lot. It's a good many. Yeah. I think Jose Alvarado had the record, as far as we know, recently with 11 in a row. All 13 of Estrada's have been swinging. So it is pretty impressive.

He has an upper 90s fastball with a good slider. Okay. Like every other reliever these days. He also has a split fingered change up that he calls a chitter a chitter what do you make of that i don't know that i've you know we talked about splinkers a lot and you talk about slutters and like you gotta be careful with your pronunciation of that one. It sounds like you're describing an outhouse and also a very bitey kind of bug. Yeah.

You know, like a bug that would drive you to distraction on the mound, as it were. Yeah. He walked 38 batters in 39 and a third innings last year between AAA and the majors. That's not good. Padres pitching coach Ruben Diablo said, we knew the stuff was there.

It was just a matter of how consistent he can be in the zone. And now it turns out very consistent, I guess. So, wow. That's all it takes, I guess. Chitter. I've never heard that one before. I don't think. It really sounds like you're saying something else.

It does. You don't have to believe that, though. To be clear, Producer Shane. We don't. I'm saying something else. It does. You don't have to believe that, though. To be clear, Producer Shane. We don't. I'm saying chitter. Chitter. Yeah. Yeah.

It just sounds like you're saying something else, though. I mean, you're not, but it sounds like it. That feels like if I were a broadcaster, I'd be very nervous about that. I would avoid that terminology because I would feel quite concerned. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Marwin's manager, Skip Schumacher, called it a Vulcan changeup.

Sometimes you hear that. That's probably safer to say it that way. Significantly safer. Meaningfully safer. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty impressive. So we will monitor his progress as well and how is anyone supposed to

score no wonder offense is down when people are throwing chitters out here yeah how are you supposed to no wonder offense is in about a low-scoring game. So one of the only things that is making scoring look more robust than it is is the zombie runner. And the fact that once we flip over to the 10th inning, we have a completely different scoring environment, which makes a mockery of the game, some might say. But this particular game, it did not make a mockery of the game, some might say. But this particular game, it did not make a mockery of this one in that sense. But I think this is my least favorite type of zombie runner ending. So the Phillies and the Giants played a game on Tuesday that was scoreless through nine. So it was exciting, pitcher's duel,

not exactly a classic throwback pitcher's duel. Zach Wheeler was the classic throwback starter ace for the Phillies. The Phillies, like, they make this look like a staff from, I don't know, at least a decade ago, the number of long outings they get, relatively long by this era's standards, six and seven inning outings.

Zach Wheeler went six scoreless, and then they brought in Kirkering and Alvarado and Hoffman, and they got three scoreless. The Giants went with an opener, Eric Miller, and so they had more of a bullpen game. They used the same number of pitchers, all told, but they had Eric Miller, and then they brought in Taylor Rodgers for a couple, and then Spencer Howard was the bulk guy and gave them four. And then the other Rodgers, Tyler, came in and gave them a scoreless inning. So they each used five pitchers, and it was scoreless to the 10th. And in the top of the 10th, again, the Phillies didn't score.

And then we get the bottom of the 10th, Giants batting, Matt Strom in on the mound for the Phillies. He intentionally walks Ramos after Tyler Fitzgerald becomes the zombie runner at second. Then Wilmer Flores hits a fly to move Fitzgerald over to third. And then Luis Matos hits another sack fly to score Fitzgerald. And that's it. That's game. Walk off sack fly and it ends this white knuckle, intense, low scoring pitcher's duel. It ends without anyone actually breaking through, without anyone actually getting on base through their own production, without even a hit of any kind. Just guy starting the inning on second, intentional walk, and two sack flies, and that's it.

It's over. I hate that. I hate that ending to a game. It's just the worst. It's the worst. Make them earn it. You're sitting through nine scoreless innings and you're just waiting. Who's going to be the one to actually get something going and get a rally and push a run across?

And then it ends without anyone actually breaking through. Matt Strom didn't do anything wrong. Not really. He comes in. He intentionally walks a guy and then he gives up a couple of fly ball outs. And that's it. Game over. Walk off. It's the worst. Not that the Phillies need any more wins. They have won plenty. For

that matter, the Giants have won a whole lot lately. But that's just, to me, such a deflating inning and ending. And you might still celebrate, oh, it's a walk off. We won. But like, do you really feel good about yourself all you did was hit a couple sack flies and get a freebie i agree it doesn't have the same oomph uh and it doesn't have the same oomph for the winner and it's like more annoying as a way to lose for the loser yeah i have notes you know zero out of ten would not would not do again yeah i don't know what's worse when you have the pitchers duel that then turns into just kind of a laugher in extras yeah that stinks too when it's like yeah for sure zero or one one or something and then

suddenly each team is scoring four or five runs in the 10th inning or something. That's bad too. But I think this might be even worse, actually. It's still low scoring, but that places the importance, that magnifies the importance of the one run that makes the difference. And you didn't earn it. You didn't actually do anything good here. You just made outs, productive outs. Okay. Like you took what was given to you, but it was given to you. You know, you started the inning with a runner on second. I don't know how often this particular thing happens. I was trying to figure this out with listener and Patreon supporter Dennis earlier. And if you look at baseball reference, you see that 2020 through 2024, there have been 33 walk-off sack flies. 25 of them have been unearned runs, which doesn't mean that they're all zombie runners scoring the

winning run, but a lot of them probably were. So it's not a huge number of games ending this way, but one is too many, frankly. Yeah, I agree. Take the loss as Matt Strom in that game. Yeah, unfair. Yeah, the worst. Just please repeal this rule. It's not too late. It will never be too late to do away with a mistake.

No, you can always fix it. You can always fix it. Yes, please rectify this particular problem. All right. Nor is it too late for us to get a great guest on this podcast. We will take a quick break and then we will be right back with Keith Morris Rowe, Nationals bullpen cart driver and Stephen Okert tip recipient slash beneficiary. You say I waste my time tracking all these stat lines. But here I've found my kind. I'm all effectively wild. Well, by day, Keith Morris Rowe is the mild-mannered associate athletic director

at George Mason University's athletics department near DC, a job he's been doing for eight years. By night, or I guess also sometimes by day, but different days, just go with it. He drives the Nationals bullpen cart and he was driving it. He was behind the wheel when Steven Okert became not only the first pitcher to take the cart this year, but the first pitcher ever, as far as we know, to tip the driver. So we have hailed him down, too. Keith, welcome to Effectively Wild. Yes, thank you. Thank you.

Thanks for the welcome. Oh, of course. Some people might be surprised, as I was, that you are not a full-time member of the Nationals staff. This is a side gig for you. I guess gig economy, it makes me feel even better about Okert tipping you now. But tell me how you became a Nationals bullpen car driver. Last season, the 2023 season was my first season behind the wheel. So this is my second season. Last year year I was a rookie. There are seven of us this season. Last year there was eight.

So each game, we're assigned a game, and there's two of us that work each game. One opens the gate in center field, and one drives the cart. So, you know, it was something I applied for, and it might've been like October, November of 2022. And I tried out in January and I got the job. So it was quite the experience going through that and actually getting it. You know, it was such a cool job. And I was like, I got my full-time job. The schedule works well with this.

One, it was awesome getting it. And two, just having a side job, part-time job that's like this, I think a lot of people would die for. So I definitely take it for granted. We all take it for granted. And it's just such a cool, special part-time job. I'm having perhaps incorrect flashbacks to driver's ed in high school. How does one demonstrate that one is a capable bullpen cart driver in the application process? You know, they just, they kind of put us through different things and see how we handle them. You know, there was some hands-on driving, there were some interview questions. You know, in my full-time job at George Mason University,

we actually have to go through a golf cart certification driving for the university. So I remember on my interview, I got a little chuckle out of that for having that certification. So I don't know if that, you know, tipped the needle or not. But with my full time job, I do have some comfort in driving golf carts. And it definitely got taken to a whole nother level when you're driving around a major league ballpark. Yeah, when you said tryout, I was immediately wondering, are we talking like obstacle course here? Are we talking, you know, under adverse weather conditions? Do they have someone role play as an ornery reliever who's coming in and you have to do your best to talk to them or not talk to them? and you have to do your best to talk to them or not talk to them?

I mean, was there actually like you're getting in the cart and you're driving from the bullpen to the mound or a mock staged bullpen entrance? Yes, so that night there was some weather, so we didn't get to be on the warning track. So just kind of did some things underneath the stadium just to see if we could handle it. But I'm sure as you can imagine, when you hop in it, it is pretty intimidating. And for me, the first time getting in it, as much as I've driven golf carts, it's not

what you think it is. It's a lot more intimidating, like I said. So getting that first one under your belt felt pretty good. But then once you get thrown into a game, that's a completely different feeling as well. Yeah, I'm imagining just like dozens, hundreds of aspiring bullpen cart drivers milling around waiting to see who made the cut. You know, they post the lists on the wall and everyone crowds around to see what their scores were or something. I don't know if it was quite that competitive a field, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who wanted to do it. quite that competitive a field, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who wanted to do it.

Is everyone who got the gig, someone like you who does it sort of on the side or are there full timers with the nationals who do it too? Yeah. So it's everyone part-time. So when it, when it first started in 2018, I think it was halfway through the season and I could be, I didn't want to make sure I'm correct, but there was, there was two, two drivers and they did the whole season. So, and then 29, I think it was 2019. Uh, they went to four drivers. And then when I tried out is when we, we added four more. So that's when we got to eight last year. Um, but yeah, everyone's baseball fans, everyone's nationals fans to an extent. And this is, you know, a part-time job a part-time job that we all take very seriously and keep it professional. Are any of the other drivers, are they originals? Like they've been there since the bullpen carts came in or the veterans showing you the ropes?

Yeah. So the two original bullpen cart drivers, they're still with us. Oh, nice. And then it went to four and three of those folks are still with us. And then we increased to eight last year, and now we're to seven. So it's such a cool job and something cool to be a part of. But yeah, the veterans were great to me in showing me the ropes. And definitely appreciate that.

And they helped calm the nerves early on so very grateful to them do you remember like the most exciting game that you've been on duty for i think opening day this past year um that was that was really cool you know i think just opening day anywhere is a cool feeling so yeah i think i think that's that's the first one that comes to mind. I also worked last year when Sean Doolittle had his ceremony. Oh, yeah. A regular bullpen cart rider. Yeah. So I was working the gate that night. We got to drive him out from the bullpen to the mound. So that was cool to be a part of. Yeah. But I mean, I know the guys that worked during the World Series. I know that had to be wild.

I can't imagine. So yeah, I think opening day this year, that was just the energy in the ballpark is amazing. But we hope for many more exciting days at Nats Park. I do not have a driver's license, let alone a golf cart driving certification, so I would not have gotten very far in this application process. The golf cart is easier than a real car, just to put you at ease. I have been behind the wheel of a golf cart,

and I didn't go into a sand trap or a water feature or anything. I survived. But what would you say is the trick, if there is a trick, to golf cart versus other vehicles and then bullpen cart versus golf cart? I think, like anything, the first couple times you do it, you know, it feels like overwhelming or a lot going on. You know, when you're coming around the warning track, there's many things that I never realized, you know, we had to pay attention to.

You know, so you think about security that's on the warning track, to police on the warning track, to racing presidents dancing around, to their handlers dancing around, to the ball girls, to the players running out of the dugout and seeing them from a distance and knowing, okay, Julio Rodriguez is coming up, grabbing his glove, and he's sprinting out the center field. And you're keeping an eye on that from a distance as you're coming up to it. Not just handling the pitchers, but the on-deck circle. You know, guys are getting into their routines and they're not thinking about us coming around, nor should they.

And we're there to just keep it professional and, you know, not mess them up. You know, to donuts, to weighted bats on the warning track that may have sneaked off when a guy's heading up the bat. We either have to dodge those or we hop out, move them onto the on-deck circle and carry on our way. We're definitely keeping an eye on the pitch clock or in-between inning clock,

making sure we're not the reason why the game's being held up. And just like the first time you're driving a car, there's so many things out there that you're trying to pay attention to and it just becomes natural. But the first few times you're, you're catching, trying to keep an eye of who's coming in and out of the dugout. That's, I think the biggest area, you know, there's photographers coming out as well. Warm up pitchers when you're coming around the mound, if you time it poorly, catcher

comes out and potentially misses the pitch and you're right there. You keep an eye on that as well. So yeah, there's, there's many things's many things that we're keeping an eye on. Yeah. When I say that it's easier to drive a golf cart than a car, I don't mean to diminish the myriad things you have to keep track of. You know, the consequences are a little different with the collision with one versus the other. But I'm curious, sort of, you know, how often are you guys actually shuttling a pitcher out to the infield? Because the size of staff that you're talking about, I imagine has as much to do with how many home games there are as it does anything else. But

how often are you guys pressed into service? So we go out every pitching change. You know, we get that call from upstairs and we, you know, we're on headsets and we go out every pitching change. We get that call from upstairs and we're on headsets and we go home visiting team each time, hang outside the bullpen and wait for someone to hop in. That was actually my first time I've had a rider in my one and a half seasons. So I don't know if everyone on the seven other guys I think have all had someone, but I'm not 100% sure. I know it's definitely exciting when someone does get in. I told myself when I got the job, the first person, first pitcher who gets in,

I'm going to buy their jersey, and I did. So I now have a Steven Okert twins jersey en route. So, you know, even though it's not a Nationals player, I told myself whoever, whoever, you know, hops in first for me, I was going to buy that jersey. It just does a cool memento for myself. So for me, like I said, it was the first one and I thought it was a pretty cool first one. And where are you parked between pitching changes? Where are you waiting and how are you monitoring the game? Yes, we're out in center field. There's a center field gate.

And as I mentioned, whoever's working with us opens the gate. We get a call from Game Entertainment from up top. And they kind of keep us updated. We have a TV as well that kind of, you know, we watch the game and see things develop. We have another camera shot that's on the bullpen. So we have a general idea. But once we start getting the feeling of there could be a pitching change either way, we get into position, one on the gate, one on the cart, and we just wait for that call. And, you know, that call from upstairs is our ultimate go ahead. We,

we wait for that final call and we go from there. So. But the call from the pitchers so rarely comes that I wonder whether you had given up hope, whether there's some part of you that's hopeful. I don't know how many games you've worked in total, but presumably you've ridden up there dozens, if not hundreds of times, and no one has ever taken you up on it. So are you maintaining, are you thinking like, this is it, this is going to be the time, and then you're crestfallen every time the reliever just jogs right by you? Or had you basically given up on it ever happening? Yeah, honestly, every time I ride out, and I'm sure all of us, we still have that hope.

It's such a cool feeling when the gates open and we're riding out there. I think the fans get pretty... Even myself, when I go to games, I still get excited and I know the guy's driving it. But yeah, we still have hope and I think that's what makes it so cool. As I'm parked there and some of the other bullpen guys for the twins, you could see them looking at me and saying something. And I was like, Oh my God,

this might, this might be it. This is it. Everything I've been training for. It's go time. Yeah. And I, like I think about to myself,

I'm like, did I even, you know, remember that ride? You know, it was like, Oh my gosh, we,

we got in and, you know, so it's just like,, it was like, oh my gosh, we, we got in and, you know, so. It's just like when you ask a pitcher about their big league debut, it's like, oh, it's all a blur. I don't really remember anything. I guess with you, it actually lasts only what, 30 seconds or so is the ride? Yeah. And then, you know, when he hopped out, I was, to be honest, I didn't know what he was

handing me. And then I was like, oh my gosh. And then I think in one of the videos, you can see me smiling, driving off. And I was like, that just happened. So yeah, it was a cool moment. And yeah, I think every time we come out, there's hope somebody will hop in. Has his generosity altered your expectation for the next guy to ride in your cart? Are you expecting tips from here on out? No, no. I think it's such a, and I've always thought this, it's such a cool job and a cool experience to get to do each time.

It's something we don't take for granted. Just getting to be a piece of the, we're a part of the entertainment team for the Nationals. So it's something special just to be a part of that and get to be a part of the fan experience. You know, something I love when I go to different ballparks or different sporting events. And just to get to play that piece of, you know,

people having a good time and putting smiles on people's faces, I think it's something cool that we all get to be a part of, you know. Did Okert say anything during the ride or do you have, because, you know, you sometimes you get in a ride sharing car and you get too chatty a driver, right? Some people like to chat. I guess there's only so much time to chat, but some pitchers, they don't like people to talk to them on their game days. So are you silent and less spoken to, I guess, in your sample of one actual riot here? Yeah. And like you said, it's kind of something I, well, I obviously haven't experienced and it was just passed down from the veterans of the bullpen cart drivers. And we, you know, we keep

it professional. We didn't talk, nor was I expecting us to. You know, they're going into a Major League Baseball game, and we're here to get them to that. You know, when he was about to hop out, he did say, I'm going to head out in front. So clearly he's a veteran bullpen car driver and doesn't want us, you know, flipping him when we head out. So, you know, that was the extent of it. And, you know,

I still, you know, appreciate that moment, the tip. And, you know, it's something I think people got a good kick out of. And I thought that was just a cool moment for everyone. And like I said, glad we got to be a part of it. And again, it would have been any of the seven of us could have been out there. And, you know, it was something cool to be a part of. The thought occurs to me, does the presence of the hat on top of the cart make it feel more solid to the ground, or does it make it feel tippy? I would say we don't really feel any different than kind of a normal golf cart feeling. There's never a sense of tipping or anything like that. I think it's just a cool top to it. And I think they've done a great job with making it not feel like it's going to tip.

The kind of tipping you don't want, of course, in this case. Right, exactly. You did have good tipping. And I assume there's no tipping policy here because it's never come up before. I don't know whether there will be one now or whether other players will up the ante or not, but what did you do with your five bucks from Steven Okert? Well, I guess the first thing I did was I sent a text to our boss at the Nationals and I said, not sure if I need to report this. Um, and when he's super busy on game days,

he didn't actually see it. Um, so he was like, who gave that to you? And I was like, the, the pitcher, Steven Ochert. And he was like, oh my gosh. But I, I actually decided to, you know, how restaurants or businesses, the first dollar or the first bill. So I actually framed it. That's great. I framed it and I have it at my apartment. So just a cool little memento to have. And like I said, I appreciated his gesture. And I guess we could say it is baseball history. I don't know.

I mean, I don't know if that's a stretch, but still something cool to say. Yeah, I think it's history. It doesn't have to be the most momentous history to qualify as history. When you're parked out there and the pitcher bypasses you and you're just sort of sitting waiting to see if someone will get in, do you make eye contact or sort of signal your availability in any way? Or do you just park there and look elsewhere and you don't know whether the guy's getting in until suddenly O'Kurt is sitting behind you? We wait there, you know, for the visiting team bullpen, we are just past the gate. So we kind of looking over our right shoulder and then depending on the call and how we get there for the home bullpen, we're either right in front or a little

bit past it. They're waiting for them, you know, just don't make any eye contact. And just once they run past, then we carry on with our drive around the warning track. So there's no signal, there's no, you know, communication, just we're here for you if you like to, if you like a ride, and if not. Looks like there's no side view mirrors in the bullpen cart. Is there a rear view mirror? No, no. So we're just driving. That's why they have to be so careful out there, Ben,

because they're dealing with limited tools on the actual vehicle. Do you think this will inspire more big leaguers to take advantage of the cart? Because I think everyone's reaction to this story was, first of all, I think people love it when guys take the bullpen cart, regardless of whether or not there's a tip involved. But, you know, this hit a very nice note, I think, for a lot of people where they appreciated the gesture and also just a moment to, you know, get to take in the glory of the cart. Do you think you'll have more writers now? You know, I'm not sure. You know, I think guys get into the routines and you understand that those are probably hard to break. But like you mentioned, it was such a cool, fun moment. So many people really enjoyed the moment. I just wonder, like, who wouldn't want to be a part of a cool moment like that? And I think when people do get in, just from my experience of opening the gate and seeing people hop in, I think there is a little bit of an excitement in the ballpark. Again, I am a little biased, you know, all of us are a little biased, but it's a fun little gimmick. But I do understand they are, you know, professional athletes and they do have their

things to do. We just want to be there and add to it if they like to be a part of it. And Orkert's pitched well at Nationals Park historically, and he's continued to take the bullpen cart there, I guess, because he has continued to pitch well. Does the correlation causation go the other way, that he pitches well because he takes the bullpen cart, or is it more of a superstitious thing? I guess we'll never know. But he did have a good scoreless outing in that game and he actually got the win, which would be bad, I guess, for the Nationals because he's a Twins pitcher. And so maybe you're sad about that. But on the other hand, do you feel some small measure of pride responsibility there?

Hey, I teamed up with Steven Okert. We got the win today. I drove him out there and then he did his job. I did mine. He did his. Yeah. I think we just have a good time doing what we do when we work, you know, season ticket holder events and folks say, you know, this is sometimes when you guys are driving around, these are my kids' favorite part of the game, or this is a piece that they love pointing at the bullpen card. So those type things are just cool to hear. And looking at the outcome of how the pitchers did, of course, that's important. But I think those experiences for folks coming to Nats Park is pretty cool too, and pretty cool to be a part of.

I know that you're a consummate professional when you're out there and it doesn't give you a lot of time to chat but is there is there anyone in particular you'd you'd most like to have ride in your cart i don't think there's there's anybody in mind in particular i think for me anyone that would get in is is so cool you know somebody who played baseball and was around baseball most of my life, like, getting to be out there is just as cool. You know, so even like a professional baseball player, a major league baseball player hopping in and sitting next to you for the ride is like crazy to think about, you know. And that's something we get to do for a job. So whoever hops in, it would be just as cool as my ultimate favorite pitcher of all time.

I was going to ask you, you mentioned being a baseball player, and I saw on your GMU page that you were quite an accomplished college catcher. You were at Concord University, you're in the Concord University Athletics Hall of Fame, you were All-American, All-Region, lots of other accolades. Tell us a little bit about your college baseball career. Yeah. Like you mentioned, I played at Division II, Concord University. My old teammate is actually director of pitching for the Red Sox. And his name is Justin Willard. And he actually sent me a text after that. And my old coach there as well, Andrew Wright, he's in professional baseball as well, sent a note as well. So it's kind of funny how that, in a sense, reconnected us all back together through baseball. Completely different paths, you could say. But

yeah, so I mean, guys from there still keep in touch with. And like I said, a moment like this that we would never think brought us back communicating or back texting. So it was pretty cool, pretty cool to have people reaching out, even just folks at George Mason were great about it and kind of reposting. And once they realized it was me, you know, they were like, wow, okay. Yeah. So you haven't been bombarded by interview requests, I asked you, but this has gotten a lot of attention, a lot of news stories, a lot of viral videos and tweets. Have you been following a lot of that? Obviously you've heard from a lot of people, as you've said. Yeah. I think something everyone can agree on, which is, you know, pretty crazy in the world of social media today. Like I think everybody enjoyed the moment. I found that to be pretty interesting, you know, like I'm sure you all know, but I feel like when you read a lot of social media things, there's always people that like chirp back in different ways, but there was, everyone seemed to just have fun with that

moment, which I thought was pretty cool. And not saying it was because of me or, but I think I would have enjoyed it just as much if it was anybody of me or, but I think I would have enjoyed it just as much if it was anybody else on our, on our team. I don't know if you've been back in the cart since then, or whenever you will be, will it be a letdown or was it a letdown when you kind of went back to the routine of not only no tips, but no one taking you up on your offers that like, oh, back to the grind. I was actually back in it, uh, this past Sunday. Uh, no, it definitely wasn't a letdown. Like I said, anytime those, those gates open,

even when we get to do the gate, like opening the gate and having the car go out, like it's such a rush. Like even if you're not the one driving it for me, it's just, it's so cool to just open those gates and like, you know, you got a major league ballpark right there. I feel like if they gave the beekeeper a Tops Now card, you should get a Tops Now card with the moment of the tip being exchanged. Come on, Tops, get on it. I agree.

Well, as I'm sure you saw, Okert said, if there was an app I would give them five stars, it was a great ride in. said if there was an app i would give them five stars it was a great ride in i assume the feelings mutual and that you would five star him as well as you could especially after the tip but uh of course of course well well done you know you rose to the moment you waited a long time for it to arrive but you were equal to the task and we congratulate you on your flawless ride. We hope that other people will take you up on this and wish you well in your future bullpen cart and other endeavors. Thank you very much, Keith. All right. Thank you. And I know, you know, all, all seven other drivers are, you know, would take care of any other, any other pictures that comes in. So I'll give my pitch for all of them as well, but I appreciate the time and

thank you for this. Yeah, you're a good teammate, right? Yeah. Hug in the spotlight. It happened to find you here, but could have been anyone. That's, you know, selfless thing that a good teammate says. Well, we don't tip podcast guests no matter how entertaining they are. But that was fun. Thanks to Keith for coming on. Thanks to his friend and our Patreon supporter, Andrew, for putting us in touch. And kudos to the only other interviewer who beat us to Keith, listener and Patreon supporter, Peter, who scooped us and interviewed him in print for Twins Daily. Also, we talked about Matt Waldron earlier. More knuckleballer news. You may remember

back on episode 2165, I talked about David Fletcher's future as a knuckleballer. This was before his immediate future became clouded. When a report surfaced that he had placed bets on some non-baseball sports with the same bookie Ipe Mizuhara had used, there was a previous report that he had made the introduction between those two. So Fletcher's under investigation by MLB now. But while that investigation is ongoing, he gets to keep playing for AAA Gwinnett, Atlanta's affiliate. As a hitter, he has a 600 OPS down there. But when some video surfaced of him throwing knuckleballs as a pitcher, we discussed whether he would have a better baseball future on the mound than he does as a position player. And on Wednesday, he was pressed into service as a starting pitcher for the first time, the Braves called up pitching prospect Spencer Schwallenbach. I assume the Stripers rotation was shorthanded. So Fletcher got the start against the Orioles affiliate, the Norfolk Tides. Still some big prospects in that lineup. Jackson Holiday, Connor Norby, Heston Kerstad.

And Fletcher went five innings, three hits, two runs, one walk, six Ks. Got Jackson Holiday swinging. 52 of his 64 pitches were knuckleballs below 67 miles per hour, mostly low 60s. Telling you, might be something there. Unless he gets suspended, or worse. But assuming he's eligible to play, maybe that's the way he should play. Or hey, dare I say, two-way player. He can be the new Brooks Kieschnick. What a weird year he's having. Fletcher, that is. Not Brooks Kieschnick. I don't know what kind of year Brooks Kieschnick is having. Fletcher, that is, not Brooks Kieschnick. I don't know what kind of year Brooks Kieschnick is having. Although I did just learn that Brooks Kieschnick Jr. recently committed to the Texas

Longhorns as a football player, his dad's alma mater, so I guess that's good. This has been your Brooks Kieschnick update. That will do it for today. Thanks as always for listening. You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild. The following five listeners have already signed up and pledged some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going, help us stay ad-free, and get yourself access to some perks, as have the following five listeners, Bob Bryan, Greg Padgett, Nathan Barker, Will Peckenham, and Rebecca Fleming. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, one of which we are about to post, as it is, after all, almost the end of a month, playoff live streams, prioritized email answers, discounts on merch and ad-free Fangrafts memberships, and so much more.

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Wild listener meetups at MLP ballparks. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be right back. Outro Music