Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2176: (Don’t) Do it Live!

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about Bryce Harper pandering to Londoners, Kiké Hernández booting a ball during an in-game interview, banning player scouting cards to lower BABIP, the effect on home runs of widening the foul lines, Yusei Kikuchi, Tyler Soderstrom, and a foul-territory hypothetical, crediting managers for sacrificial ejections, Aaron Judge’s scalding hot […]

Take me to the diamond Lead me through the turnstile Shower me with data That I never thought to compile Now I'm feeling out my scorecard With a crackerjack of smile Hello and welcome to episode 2176 of Effectively Wild, a Fangraphs baseball podcast brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg Rowley of Fangraphs and I'm joined by Ben Limburger of The Ringer. Ben, how are you? I'm all right. How are you? I'm good. I'm enjoying a good seltzer. Yes, but as we clarified before we started recording, not hard seltzer. No, not a hard seltzer. Yeah.

It's not for me. You expressed your feelings about that last week. I did. I did. Some listeners expressed their feelings about your feelings. And I'm so glad that they have a nice time with those, you know? It's not for me, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be for you. We know my thoughts on these sorts of things as long as you're not eating a dolphin. You should eat what works for you. That's been your go-to. Don't do that. That's a great line for you food-wise.

Anything short of dolphin consumption is okay. I have other, I mean, like, I think that there are other modes of consumption that are more or less ethical than other modes of consumption. Dolphin consumption. It's right out. Strictly forbidden. Yeah. Well, you know who else was having a good time this past weekend? Fans in London who were watching the Mets and the Phillies play. And also some of the Mets and the Phillies, specifically Bryce Harper,

who we have recognized, saluted for his successful and seemingly sincere pandering to Phillies fans in the past. Well, apparently his pandering extends across the Atlantic because he was doing sort of the same thing for Londoners in the London series. He hit a home run and his celebration of it was a soccer style slide on his knees in and out to the local traditions. And he was also using a bat emblazoned with an image of the Philly Fanatic dressed as a member of the King's Guard. Yeah.

Which the Fanatic did as sort of a publicity stunt, and Harper was celebrating that. It really is, I think, endearing that Harper does this. You could look at it in a completely different way and say it's the opposite. It's off-putting. He's desperate. He's thirsty. He's, well, pandering. There's often a negative connotation to that word. But I think I don't mean it that way with him. I feel like it's sincere. I think he just wants everyone to have a good time. He wants to meet them where they are and appreciate local customs and just be part of the scenery. And I just think it's kind of a winning quality of his. Clearly, it wins over fans. People like it. He's a star. And also, I think it enhances

everyone's enjoyment of the game going on. I think, I guess we can never know what's going on in the hearts of Harper, the heart of Harper, and whether he's doing it for clout or because he just authentically appreciates other people and want them to appreciate the fact that he's an entertainer and it's a spectator experience. And he fully embraces that. And I really respect it. I agree with everything you said. I think that he maybe this is a little too highfalutin a way to describe it but it does appear that he views himself as

an ambassador of the game he clearly has a special uh commitment to outreach uh toward the the phillies faithful right as as well he should right right? He is a forever Philly in all likelihood. But I think that he thinks of it as a thing that he, as one of the game's biggest stars, is sort of obligated to do. incredibly talented, much like my expressed confusion over why people like hard seltzer. It's not to say that that is the only way to be a star in today's game, right? There are a great many ways to be a person and a baseball player. But it's clear that his understanding of his responsibility to baseball, at least as it is played at the highest levels in the U.S., is to be a guy who's engaged with his fan base and then is there to show the folks in London a good time. So I think it's great.

You need some guys like that. Every guy doesn't have to be that guy because people are different and fans are different. Right. Some fans, I'm sure, despite the I think one could say obvious sincerity that Harper has, like there are probably fans who look at that and are like, yes, it's a for those folks, I think you want there to be other kinds of guys. You know, you need the stoic types, perhaps, or the ones who are enthusiastic with their fan base but, like, would not be caught dead in a headband that has the fanatic's face on it. But I think we do need guys like this. I think this is an important kind of guy in the baseball media ecosystem, baseball player media ecosystem. And I'm glad he's doing it because, you know, you need a guy as talented as Harper, I think. I do think that's an important part of it. important part of it. Someone whose talent translates in a really obvious way, even to people who aren't as familiar with like the ins and outs of baseball. And I imagine that a lot of the people who go to the London games are either, particularly when it's folks who are proximate to, you know, root for a team that is proximate to the UK as much as a team can be proximate to the UK.

You know, I bet a lot of people flew over from New York or Philly to see those games. And then I bet a lot of expats go. There are probably folks who are maybe living on the continent who hop over because it's an easy flight. So I bet there are a lot of people at those games who are very familiar with baseball. But there are probably people who are like, not. This is the thing to go do.

Everyone sure seems excited. Let's buy a weird shirt and go see what this baseball thing is like. So I think it's pretty good. Me too. Not everyone needs to be the greatest showman and I've appreciated. It's kind of the yin and yang trout and Harper. Right. I am totally fine with trout, not being that guy

and just putting on a show on the field and not really courting publicity and stardom beyond that. That's okay too, because I think that's authentically who he is. But yes, it's true when you have a star who combines the talent and the performance that Harper has with this flair for showmanship and this desire to be

embraced and to embrace, I think. It's a two-way thing, right? It's not just that he wants the adulation, I think. I think he wants to sort of signal his appreciation for the fans, not in a solely self-aggrandizing way. I think he recognizes like, well, he has this career and he has this contract because people are paying to see him and he wants to give him a good show. So, yeah, it's really nice. And I think you're right that you do have to have that level of performance to pull it off, really. There are certainly players who are more marginal bench guys who have been almost honorary mascots, like uniformed mascots. I guess some mascots are uniformed. Even the Philly fanatic is usually wearing the top at least. But no mugs.

No, just the top, which is one way of putting on a show. But a lot of baseball players have been doing that. We've talked about the transparent pants. It's been a while. Just a callback to early in the season. But I think about it every day, Ben. Oh, I know. I think about it every day.

I know. But it's kind of like when people say, oh, you can't really be a team leader unless you're also good out on the field or you have been. Like you have to have accomplished something. You have to have some credibility in order to be a real leader of men on a team. And maybe it's sort of the same here where, yeah, you could pander if you were a less prominent player, but maybe no one would notice. Right. Because you have to hit the home run to do the slide after the home run. Right. Yes. Yeah. That's an important part of the process.

It would be funny if like a more marginal guy drew a walk and then did a slide or something. He's just like, look, this is my version of it, man. I'm on base. Doesn't happen all the time. Well, one such player who has been productive at points, but certainly not a star player and yet quite charismatic and eager to perform for the fans is Quique Hernandez. And Quique Hernandez, he put on another kind of show. And it was a show that despite all of our comments about the importance of outreach and being a baseball ambassador, we are not really receptive to this particular manifestation of that. The in-game interview with a player on the field who is performing in the game at that time in a real game, a meaningful game, not a spring training game, not an all-star game, not an exhibition, but a real game with who knows potential playoff implications. I've always been kind of crotchety about this. We have shared this. This is one of the get off my lawn kind of hour lawn stances that we have here at

Effectively Wild, which we don't have that many of them, but this is one of them. This is just, yeah, it's a sticking point for us. And so there was a part of me that actually did delight a little in the miscue that occurred when Kike Hernandez was speaking live with the broadcast crew on the Apple TV Plus broadcast on Friday. Not that I wish Kike Hernandez any ill. I like Kike Hernandez. Yeah. But because this was kind of confirmation of we shouldn't do this. We shouldn't do this. This is just wrong.

Hernandez may have made an error, but the real error was micing him up in the first place. Kike was playing third base as he was conversing with the commentators, and he was mic'd up and they were talking to him. And he made an error just as he was speaking to the broadcasters. And it was, A, extremely awkward because no one seemed to know what to say, right? It was Wayne Randazzo and Dontrell Willis on the call. And after Kike made the error, there was just a long, awkward silence.

Long silence. Should we say anything about this? Should we ask about the error? Should we acknowledge the elephant error in the room here? It was just a long, long pause. Long. Yeah, because they had just asked him a question. They had just asked him, like, you guys are a very close-knit ball club.

Where does that come from? And then Gleyber Torres hit a grounder to third. And Willis said said after this play and then there was no follow-up for a while because the ball just hit kike on his hand and kind of ricocheted off him he threw to first but it was too late right so it was awkward which is always i'm always kind of cringing when someone is mic'd up on the field in a real game because I'm worried that something like this will happen or that it will cause something like this to happen. There will be some mistake or even worse, a safety issue of some sort. And so that happened in sort of a low stakes way here. You know, he was asked about it, obviously, after the game and, you know,

whether it would sort of change his willingness to do this. And I think he said something to the effect of, no, I like money. Because, you know, they get a stipend or whatever for doing those appearances.

I think it's 10 grand during the regular season and then it goes all the way up to 15 during the postseason. And I was like, that does not feel like enough of a jump given the change in stakes, you know, regular season to post. I feel like it should be like 50,000 or something. Yeah. Please price the networks out of it.

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, and you could say, oh, it was a coincidence. It didn't cause him to make the error. You do enough of these interviews, someone's just going to make an error eventually. He was asked whether the interview impacted him on the play, and he did concede maybe a little bit. And then, yes, he was asked if he'd reconsider doing this. And he said, no, because we're getting paid him for liking money. And, you know, go get yours if they're going to allow this. Sure. Fine, you know. But I just don't enjoy it as a spectator. It rankles. It bothers me philosophically.

Like, this is work. This is a real game with competitive implications. And we want to think the players are taking it seriously because a lot of fans are taking it seriously. It's a sport. We're having fun here. Not like so seriously that we can't have some fun too, but I also just don't find it fun because the quality of the conversations usually just not very high caliber. And it depends on the player. There have certainly been some good ones, right? Oh, yeah. And some satisfying and compelling and entertaining interactions.

But I just find that it's better when everyone's kind of loose and relaxed because it's an exhibition game and it doesn't count and we're just having fun and it's okay. But this will just never not bother me. Yeah. It's not for me. He said after the fact, too, that the ball just kind of ate him up a little bit. And I think that there's, you know, you can't put it entirely on the interview. But it just seems like this is the most benign version of a mishap related to this, right? Where he was charged with an error.

The Dodgers ended up winning the game. It didn't matter. You know, it didn't impact the outcome of the game. He didn't suffer an injury or anything like that. But you can imagine one or both of those things being different depending on the circumstance. I want to know who the in-game interview is for. Like, not just the version of it that we're sort of uncomfortable with here, but even the dugout. Is that what we want?

Is that what you want, Ben? I don't want that. I'm fine with us focusing on the baseball, you know, the task at hand. I don't mean it in like a I'm so special or, you know, I have such taste. It's just like, we can hear from the manager any old time, you know? Yeah. And speaking of the manager, Dave Roberts was not actually aware that Kike was mic'd up during the game until he was told later. And which also seems sort of strange, I guess. So weird. What would it change really? It's not like, would it change anything Dave Roberts did to know, but still it seems like, I don't know, the manager maybe should be informed that one of the players is like potentially semi-distracted during the game.

But Roberts didn't condemn it or anything. He said that sort of thing would not have been for him as a player, but he said to each his own. him as a player, but he said to each his own. And he sort of expressed some little light disapproval of the practice without alienating his player or anything. He said, I understand it's part of sports now. And so unfortunately, Kike made an error. It's not the only error he's ever made. It's part of sports. So I'm not going to, I pick my battles. And we pick our battles, and this is one that we have picked, but we don't have to worry about being the manager of Kike Hernandez or being in the clubhouse with him. So we're free to say we don't care for this practice and it's not specific to Kike Hernandez. It's just a broader point. stain because of him you know if it happened to a less likable player like maybe i am a little more upset because i i like he seems like a nice guy and a good clubhouse presence he seems well regarded by his peers he and his wife had those engagement photos that were so cute but like

you know it's just we're here to do some serious stuff or at least they are you know and you don't want the outcome of a game to come down to something like that. And it's not likely to happen, but it's not, you know, impossible by any means. So it just seems, why court that controversy, I guess? Like, what kind of quote are you going to get where, you know, something goes really awry, you're going to be like, it was worth it, though. You're never going to think that. You're never going to think that. No, there have been awkward ones before where one of the announcers asked something that was sort of weird and uncomfortable. And then there have been mostly it's just you get kind of cliche

answers and the players don't have a lot of time to really plumb the depths of their soul and unburden themselves like they're preparing for the next play, you know. So, Roberts said he prepares. I know he likes the limelight. He's into the social media thing. He still plays hard, practices hard, but he also likes to build his brand. So, I get it. I'm okay with it. He plays his butt off. And, you know, there have been guys where I haven't really had much of a

context for them and they've done the interview or whatever and I'll come away being like, oh, so-and-so is actually quite charming. I didn't know that about him. Like, he seems like a good hang. He seems like a nice guy. He's, you know, got more to say than I may be appreciated. But I just think that there are other opportunities that you have as a media member, particularly because those interviews are happening within games where it's the national broadcast, it's the game of the week, it's the whatever. And it's like, just have a sit down, you know, beforehand and like show, even if you want to do like picture and picture with an interview, you know, that's what they do during the postseason is like.

Yeah. Someone who's not in the game, just a pitcher who's not pitching that day or has been removed or whatever it is. And you just see them in the dugout or on the bench or whatever. It's still often not my favorite, but it doesn't bother me. Who's it for? But it doesn't make me, it doesn't make me anxious, you know? Yeah. I'm already anxious, Ben.

I don't need to be more anxious. And I don't want to deprive the players of revenue, but this is not significant revenue, really, for most players. Yeah, it's not like one player is mic'd up every game. That might be sort of significant. But this is just not a lot of money relative to what they make. Like KK Hernandez is not one of the better paid players in baseball right now, but he's making 4 million bucks this season.

So 10,000 for him to be on here, I think that's 0.25% of his annual salary. So, you know, if you were making 100,000, that would be the equivalent of 250 bucks, which is like nice, you know, if you were making $100,000, that would be the equivalent of $250, which is like nice, you know, a little money in your pocket, but it's certainly not life-changing in any way. I guess like the most significant it could be is for someone who's making the league minimum. But even if you're making the league minimum $740,000, that's 1.4% of your salary. It's like $1,351. I mean, it's nice, I guess.

And also, probably most guys who are getting miked up are not making the league minimum because you probably want a veteran or someone who's well-known or a star or something. And so they're probably going to be around for a little longer and making more potentially. So yeah, it's not transformative, you know, so I don't feel too bad about it. Yeah. Get rid of it. Moving on.

Now, another thing that I am crotchety about, but you are not, you do not share my annoyance about this is the cards, right? The outfielders using cards, batters now whipping out cards from their pockets to remind them of a scouting report. And we were reminded by listener Remy and Patreon supporter that I had an opportunity to rail against this again. And I just whiffed on it because I guess I didn't check my cards beforehand. But Remy noted that when we were recently discussing the impact of outfield positioning on low outfield BABIP and thus low overall BABIP and lower batting averages and fewer hits, etc., I didn't mention that. Remy said, during your discussion on outfield positioning and low outfield BABIP, I was surprised Ben didn't suggest eliminating outfielder positioning note cards as a possible remedy for the low BABIP. positioning note cards as a possible remedy for the low BABIP. I'm not sure what impact I would expect from this, but adding a degree of difficulty to outfield positioning might be a good half measure before we start drawing arcs on the field. True. I guess it didn't come to my mind to mention

this maybe because I don't think it actually does that much. Maybe I guess, maybe I feel like it's just kind of a crutch that you rely on and maybe most outfielders don't need it. Or if you did take away the cards, they could just remember it. They could just refresh their memories before they go out there before an inning starts. Or I don't know that it's directly responsible for what seems to be an improvement in outfield positioning, but I guess it could be after all it is reminding the outfielders where to position themselves from pitch to pitch, batter to batter, whereas you used to have to have, say, an outfield coach or someone standing on the top step in the dugout and gesticulating,

which would maybe be a little less precise or not even noticed. Now you have the cards, and the usage of the cards correlates seemingly to this decrease in BABIP, which maybe stems from improved positioning. So, yeah, I guess we both were a little worried about drawing lines on the field and restricting fielder positioning. So before we go that far, maybe we just ban the cards and see whether that has any effect. the cards and see whether that has any effect. And I didn't hear this live, but we were informed by listener Joseph that Boog Shambi, excellent broadcaster and attender of the same high school as me, no wonder we're on the right side of history here. Boog was brilliantly also advocating for the end of the defensive positioning cards in the, apparently for like an entire half

of an inning in the Reds versus Cubs game on Saturday and how it can't be helping the offensive environment. So how much is it hurting? I don't know, but can't be helping. Maybe all of that is true, or maybe your subconscious was telling you, hey, Ben, this doesn't matter. Let it go, friend. You know, like maybe you're actually softening on the idea and this is a manifestation of that. Could be. Much to consider. One other response we got to that segment where we were talking about the 1970 minor league experiment to widen the foul lines as a possible solution to this and whether it might make sense to bring that back. And I've been doing some additional reporting on that. So maybe I'll have more in the future. But Justin

said, I enjoyed your discussion about changing the foul lines. However, much of the conclusion is drawn centered around Babbitt and foul territory with the result being increased balls in play, or I guess increased balls in play falling for hits. In today's game environment, I think you might find you're adding so many home runs. How many balls hammered five feet foul do we see every day? So that is true. We were focusing on the implications for more balls falling for hits. But if you are expanding the foul lines the way that they did, where they had them flare out at first or third, or you could just widen the whole infield. I guess that would be a little more radical maybe and noticeable.

Maybe arguably less noticeable. I don't know. It depends. Like having that angle be the entire field or having it noticeably broken up at first or third base. But it is true that if you did that, broken up at first or third base. But it is true that if you did that, then you would have more fair territory for balls to go over the fence in as well. So if you were to do this, you might need to deaden the ball a bit, except that it seems like MLB already has deadened the ball a bit. So they're way ahead of us. So yeah, they've already deadened the ball and now we just need to get some more balls falling for hits to get that batting average up. I guess. Although, you know, maybe we should have anticipated that things can be very dicey in foul territory.

Ooh, yes. Is that a segue or is that a segue, Ben? Yes. So you are alluding here to something that happened in a Jays-A's game where we had a collision in foul territory and kind of a weird collision. Yes. Featuring maybe the most interesting man in the majors, Yusei Kikuchi, who it seems like every week or so we hear something else.

We learn something else about the mysterious life of Yusei Kikuchi and how many books he reads and what his sleep schedule is and what his life philosophies are. And here he was involved in a collision. He really instigated a collision. Instigated implies an intent that I don't think was present. I don't necessarily mean to imply an intent, but he was the one who didn't really have right of way. Initiated contact. Yeah. Let's put it that way.

Yeah. And yeah, didn't really have right of way in this situation. But Tyler Soderstrom of the A's ventured into foul territory to chase down a foul ball in the capacious, expansive foul territory in Oakland. in the capacious, expansive foul territory in Oakland. And much to his surprise, he encountered Blue Jays pitcher Yusei Kikuchi, who was not in the game, but injected himself into the game because he ventured out onto the field from the dugout and ran right into Soderstrom, who was going to make the catch. And then Kikuchi barrels out.

Again, maybe that implies intention. But the thing is, in the moment, it looked like it could have been intentional because Kikuchi did almost kind of like drop the shoulder. It was like, you know, a football tackle kind of stance, which maybe was a complete coincidence and an accident. And that is what Kikuchi said afterward. He said, I forgot that there's no fence after I just wanted to create a little hole and hide inside it because I was a little embarrassed, or at least that was how the interpreter translated it. And as A's manager Mark Kotze said, with the way our dugouts are, guys are sitting on the top step and it's somewhat

uncomfortable when the ball is coming in at you. I think he was just trying to really get out of the way so he didn't get hit with the foul ball and inadvertently kind of laid his shoulder into Tyler. So yeah, it's really the one place where there is no fence or anything, certainly in the majors and even most minor league places, like AAA at least, will have fences there providing some protection. So I don't know if this is a budget cutting measure or just a throwback or what, but there's no protection there. So Kikuchi seemingly was just trying to get out of the way, but he got into Soderstrom's way. And it didn't really matter because it was ruled interference. I guess you can just rule interference on the dugout, which is interesting.

Not the dugout itself, but someone who emerged from the dugout. And so it was an out anyway. And no one was hurt. So no harm done. Yeah. I mean, like you can't just like, even if it's unintentional, which I take Kikuchi at his word, I don't have any reason to think otherwise.

Although I didn't know that in addition to all of his napping and reading, he had time to like train as a linebacker. But I was just like, Jesus, you put your shoulder into a guy's football move. You can't let people barrel into other people on the field when they're not playing. And you're not supposed to exit the dugout and enter the playing surface. Like, that's a rule.

So that piece of it made sense. I think that it was correctly interpreted. But yeah, he's just like, and you know, Tyra Soderström is not like a small guy. And he got trapped. I'm so glad that neither of them got hurt. Because when the collision initially happened, like Kikuchi is like a bigger dude, too. Like he's, you know, got physicality. So I was like, oh, gosh, they're gonna, they gonna they're gonna you know he's gonna goof up his shoulder and you know soderstrom's gonna like break in half and then it's gonna be a controversy and there was i did i did appreciate that there was like jarring back and forth that didn't escalate there was some grumbling because it seemed like some a's interpreted it as an intentional act initially and like honestly even if you don't interpret it as intentional, I think a little bit of like, hey, hey, is appropriate. Although really what both clubs should have done is like turn around to the owner's suite and like flip birds to be like, why is our ballpark like this?

Yeah, it would have been a shame if something worse had come of it, if some harm had befallen either of them. And Kikuchi's having a fine season and is entertaining, but also performing at a high level. suggesting what if you could, which was probably inevitable. So we got an email from David who said, what if this kind of behavior was allowed or at least tolerated in Major League Baseball and did not lead to an out? What if teams opted to use their 26 roster spot for a player whose main function was to quote unquote accidentally run out of the dugout during foul balls and just absolutely flatten the fielder who's running to catch the foul? This is very XFL. There are obvious questions about this, like how would it change gameplay in total outs?

How would it affect the experience of the fielder's running for the ball? What would be the best defense against the risk of full body contact with the patroller in foul territory? But I'm most interested to know your thoughts on what type of player would be best assigned this role. My initial thought was somebody very large who could just put up a wall. But might this be an area where speed and range would benefit more than power? Or perhaps a small player's low center of gravity could make takedowns more effective and help the patroller evade detection by a fielder who's looking up at a pop fly.

Maybe in the end, Kikuchi is the perfect foul ball patroller. pop fly. Maybe in the end, Kikuchi is the perfect foul ball patroller. I know we answered a question along these lines, which is probably not a surprise along these foul lines, because I remember having some sort of hypothetical where like players were running at other players during plays to try to distract them or intercept or yeah, maybe it was turnovers. We were talking about the potential for turnovers and some sort of baseball interception. But I guess what you'd have to do is what they do in football, which is have blockers, right? Like you have to respond with blockers. And someone else joked, we were talking about Mario Kart power-ups, and it's almost like Kikuchi this was a listener kevin who wrote in it it's like kikuchi

was the red shell just homing in on soderstrom and you know in mario kart you can deploy red shells or green shells and just have them rotating around your cart as you drive to protect yourself from other projectiles right and missiles and then they just deflect off harmlessly. So yeah, you would have to have a lot of situational awareness and possibly the 26 guy on the other roster would then be sort of deputized to protect a player venturing into foul territory from their counterpart on the other team. Oh boy. I'm just like thinking about like like what is the ideal like linebacker build versus like or do you want a cornerback out there like where you can have like speed but also you know wingspan like how do you think about length in the body um do you want to like a rover like would it be good

to have this person be like an earl thomas type where they can just like zoom zoom zoom and then what do they do the rest of the time? Do they just sit in the, are they just like in the dugout? Poised like on the starting block, basically, like on the line of scrimmage, just waiting for this to happen. Which maybe makes me think that, yeah, you want someone more nimble and agile, even if they wouldn't pack quite as much a punch impact wise. Because if your goal is not to injure necessarily, but just to disrupt, you wouldn't have to just pancake people.

You would just have to get in their way, basically. And so. I mean, there were times, there were times when Earl would pancake people, but that wasn't mostly his job. You know, he wasn't like a strong safety bend. Come on! That was Camp Chancellor's job, to blow people up. Well aware of Earl

Thomas' career. I don't know what happened to Earl. It ended weird for him, and I don't know what he's doing, but I hope that he and his family are well, because some stuff got kind of dicey at the end there. Well, Kikuchi, as you alluded to, he actually outweighs Soderstrom, if the listed weights are to be

believed. Söderström is taller, but Kikuchi, I don't know whether to put any stock in this whatsoever, but they're both solidly built gentlemen. And Söderström, of course, has catching experience. So he's been on the other end of collisions before, but just probably not quite this way. But I think you might want someone who could really accelerate quickly because most parks don't have a lot of foul territory. So you're not going to have a lot of time to really build up ahead of steam. So you just want to get off the block quickly, I think, to get where you're going. And you have to have someone who reacts quickly because you're not always going to get a lot of hang time on a foul ball. And so you want to get out there as fast as possible.

Yeah, I think that that's right. I think you want Earl Thomas, you know? I think you want an Earl type or Rover. And sometimes the Broncos will just trade you a first rounder and then you get a guy who's like a future Hall of Famer and might be a weirdo, but was a hell of a safety. Sometimes that just happens, Ben. People who are listening to this podcast for the first time are like, wait.

So they don't like people getting interviewed during the game. And one of them doesn't like when they pull out cards. But now they're talking about what if there was just someone who was designated to be a full contact, flattening people. We're not advocating for that, to be clear. We're just weighing the implications. It's purely a hypothetical. To the people who are listening to the pod for the very first time today, first of all, welcome. And second of all, we're not advocating that. We're just saying that, like, it's an obvious and natural question to kind of wonder about it, you know. How could you not? wonder about it you know um and so here we are wondering about it and sometimes you know i just

have to remind people about a guy who was like instrumental to the seahawks winning a super bowl and then ben pretends to know something about football and then um we move on later we might talk about college baseball in some capacity who could say say? And Ben will go, yeah, yeah. And I'll go, you don't know what you're talking about. And it's because he doesn't like it, even though he should. You know, you're right, new listener. Ben should like college baseball. Goodness. Yeah. Far be it for me to suggest that someone venture out into the field of play who's not actually in the game. Because if you listen long enough to this podcast, another thing you'll hear me complaining about is managers and coaches being permitted to go out there in the middle of an inning.

I don't even like that. You don't like that. So yes, this should be an inviolable barrier. I'm going to use this topic to transition to something that happened just last night that I didn't even prep you for, Ben. I didn't even tell you I wanted to. Did you end up watching any of the White Sox Mariners game from yesterday, Ben? Did that come across a transom for you?

No other than the Big Dumpers triumphant walk-off at the end. Grand slam. What a guy, Cal. The Kikuchi thing, I actually was thinking about as I was watching that, because I would say that the home plate umpire's interpretation of the strike zone last night was creative and at times flummoxing, perhaps. And there was a moment when in the inning when Seattle initially mounted their rally before they walked it off, where Cal got called out on a kind of dubious strike three. he he was agitated ben he was all worked up

because you know like it's the white socks you gotta beat the white socks if you're the mariners like if you're a serious franchise you gotta beat the white socks and like no disrespect to eric vettie because he's a good pitcher and he was their starter and so yeah like maybe you have a a hard time but like you gotta you gotta, you gotta beat the White Sox. And then sometimes you're facing Michael Kopech and he's crumbling, he's crumbling, Ben, and you gotta beat him. And then you get called out and it's dubious. And, and a thing happened where I thought to myself, one, guys zooming in from, from the dugout sometimes has a, an important alternative purpose to trucking someone. And two, you know,

we've talked a lot about how managers, how do we quantify the value that they bring? And so much of it is behind the scenes. But I think that if we were going to construct a model of manager value, where we were, you know, grading managers above replacement, Scott Service would have done something that constituted a value add last night because cal's getting all worked up he's getting angry and he was venturing into the territory where many a home plate umpire would say hey you're out of here yeah and scott service noticing this moment was like no i'm gonna be a decoy and like ran out there and got in the umpire's face and was all all exercised. And he got tossed and him getting tossed, I think, really saved Cal in that moment.

Like it it satisfied it satisfied the home plate umpire that he like he had gotten rid of a problem. It wasn't maybe the guy who started it, but it was it was the guy who came out to finish it. And then, you know, who was there to hit a walk off grand slam the big dumper ben the big dumper and so when we look at that game you know and you're looking at like the win probability added graph so much of that is gonna be about cal you know it's gonna be about cal raleigh's big moment. Right. And what a good job he did. And he he was very valuable to them, although he didn't have the highest WPA of anyone on the Mariners, which is interesting. That honor belongs to Luke Raley, who loves to bunt the ball, which we should talk about at some point.

But hold that thought. So he's there. He hits the you know. And why was he there? Why was he there? Because of Scott's there. He hits the, you know, and why was he there? Why was he there? Because of Scott's service. So, like, I really think that, like, Scott's should, he should have a WPA associated with him. You know, maybe we start with that.

And this was a moment where it was very clear. Luke Raley loves to bunt. I love that. It's great. I like a good bunter. He's been a good bunter. It's fun. He bunted to die that game.

Luke Raley is 6'4 and 235 pounds. He runs like a galoot. And I love to say that word. He's just like out there running. And he's like a, you know, it's like if a refrigerator could run. That's what he looks like. I mean that with tremendous affection. It's delightful.

He seems like a nice guy. And, you know, he's just like. I mean that with tremendous affection. It's delightful. He seems like a nice guy. And, you know, he's just like, I'm a bunt. I'm going to do it. He loves to bunt. I believe there was a football player nicknamed Refrigerator. I know that much about football. There have been like a bunch of football players nicknamed the Refrigerator. But one very famously. Sure. Yes. But yes, you're right. Let it not be said that stat heads are anti-bunt when well executed. Oh, yeah.

More of a bunt for hit than a sacrifice. We can appreciate the prowess, the art of bunting. And I think you make a good point because we've done a stat blast on episode 2033. We did a stat blast trying to look for some effect of managers getting thrown out, some fire-up effect. Yeah. Do you get the team energized? And we couldn't really find anything. Ryan Nelson looked into this and taking into account the win expectancy at the time of the ejection and then looking to see how often those teams went on to win.

It didn't seem like there was any clear effect of that. But hit the big grand slam later on and you get some secondary credit for that or you should. And also getting in between the player and the umpire to prevent some sort of physical contact that would lead to not only an ejection, but potentially a suspension. Right. That is important, too. Just stand in the middle. Just be the block with your body to prevent your player from making contact that's going to get them in trouble and deprive you of their services for games to come.

That is a very important function, sometimes filled by other players, but sometimes also that's a case where I'm okay with a manager or coach running out there. Yes. Not for a mid-game meeting. I guess that's the common theme with my anti-card stance and my anti-mound meeting. Yeah. You know, that's very consistent philosophically. It's the same, I think, root cause that makes me upset about both those things. Like, these are big leaguers, you know, just do your prep before the game.

But to run out there and prevent an ejection or a suspension, that is a pretty important clutch. Luke Raley bunted a 99 mile an hour four seamer. He bunted a 99 mile an hour four seamer. It had a negative 44 degree launch angle. That's amazing. That might be the best player I've seen all year. It added, Ben, I was so thrilled. Poor Michael Kopech.

I like Michael Kopech, but like, man, he had a rough one. He had a rough one out there. We should maybe spend a moment talking about Aaron Judge. There are a few pitchers that I want to bring up in a moment, but Aaron Judge is now having a better offensive season on the whole than he had in 2022 when he famously hit 62 home runs. He has a higher WRC plus this season. It was 209 in 2022. It's 215 this year, and the offensive environments are fairly similar. So he hit 311, 425, 686 that year. He's hitting 305, 436, 703.

Something about that slugging percentage that starts with a seven makes it seem way more impressive than 686. And yet 686 is also pretty fantastic. But I don't know that I have seen any hitter as hot as this for this long a stretch because, of course, the thing about the arc of Aaron Judge's season is that he started slow, which you would never know based on this, but he was barely above league average in March, April. He had a 118 WRC+. When April ended, he was batting 207. He hit six homers that month. And then in May, he was about as hot as anyone's ever been for a month,

and he has not slacked off at all in June. If anything, he's been better in June. You figured, okay, he's got to cool off at some points. But no, he's been even better in June. 277 WRC plus in May, 387 in June so far. And we're more than a third of the way through the month. It's just ridiculous how well he's hitting and how hot he's been. And I guess the difference for the Yankees is that they also have Juan Soto now.

So it's not just Judge doing this. But this is quite incredible. He's 32 years old now. And man, he has not lost anything. There were people who were really wondering like is aaron judge washed now like has he lost some bat speed is he showing his age no he is the best hitter on the planet still i saw yankee fans on twitter saying things, Ben, about his contract, about his talent, about, I mean, just crying, rending garments, preparing to throw up in the streets.

Like, people were panicking. And then, you know, Jay Jaffe wrote about him and it all turned around. Yeah. And then, you know, Jay Jaffe wrote about him and it all turned around. Yeah. Since the start of May, Aaron Judge has a 302 WRC+. 302. That's 36 games. That's not insubstantial.

And the thing is, okay, sure, anyone can have a hot streak. Sure. And there's always someone who's hitting out of their minds in the majors. But no one is anywhere near the stratosphere of Aaron Judge over that span. Juan Soto, second best hitter in baseball over that span. Must be nice to be the Yankees. Also, Jose Ramirez is technically, I guess, tied with Soto, but second place is 190. 190. No one has topped a 200 WRC plus in that span. And Aaron Judge is over 300. He's hitting 398, 522, 976.

976! Since the start of May. And this is, again, a league. That's wild. Where the league-wide OPS is sub-700 this year, right? So he's not doing this when everyone is popping off. He's doing this during a relative offensive downturn. And this is, you can't even say Bondsian. This is better than Bondsian. I'm sure Bonds had stretches of this length where he hit this well. But, you know, compared to Bonds' best seasons, this is a good deal better than Bonds was over a full season, which, again, Aaron Judge has not done this the entire season.

He started slow. Maybe he'll cool off at some point. I mean, almost certainly will cool off at some point. One would think, although one would have said that after May. And he's like, nope, I'm actually not hot enough. But, man, he is just the most locked in. There have been some incredible hot streaks. Stanton, years ago, when he was hitting all his homers, Bryce Harper had an incredible hot streak.

I remember when I was running numbers about like the hottest hot streaks over spans of X plate appearances. I haven't run those numbers for Judge, but I'd like to see someone run them because this has to be up there with the hottest hot streaks of this length ever. I would imagine so. I mean, like, look, we talked started this episode by talking about bryce harper and his pandering as a as a means of ambassadorship international diplomacy in bryce's case and this is the same thing in a way you know i mean i'm sure i'm sure that um that's not what uh how judge is necessarily conceptualizing it but it's like this is good and it doesn't involve any Maris's as far as we know. We get to be

free of that discourse. Come out of the woodwork later, because the Yankees have played 68 games. Aaron Judge has played in all but one of them. And he is on pace for 57 home runs.

But the thing is, he could end up with fewer than 62 homers, and this could be a superior offensive season. There's a long way to go. But if he were just somewhere between his April and his June, which I guess would be May when he was blisteringly hot. But if he hit anything close to what he's hit the last couple of months, when he inevitably regresses, like he may have banked enough production here that this could turn out again. Like his season long WRC plus is only a little bit better than it was in 2022 because of the slow start.

So he doesn't have a big buffer there or far to fall and have it still be a superior offensive season. But I mean, since May, he's hit 18 homers in 36 games. So he's homering every other game at this point. So if he keeps up that pace, we're definitely going to see some Maris's unless the Maris's are no longer relevant because Judge judge already broke that record. He already broke the record. Yeah.

This is my point. Like have to have some bonds and McGuire's and Sosa's coming out. Maybe I'm sure MLB would welcome that. Here. I was naively being like, we won't have any bad discourse. He already broke the record. I didn't even think about that discourse,

but I didn't even, uh, just unexplained innocence. You know, He already broke the record. I didn't even think about that discourse, Ben. I didn't even. Unexplained innocence. You know, Roger Maris had a home run wiped away by a rainout in 1961. So if you count that, these days, of course, we just resume the games when they're suspended due to rain. So you don't lose production like they routinely used to, which must have been very frustrating for those players. But if you count Maris' 62, that one really does deserve an asterisk because it doesn't count. But he did hit 62 home runs that season. So Judge still has to top that, I guess. Oh my gosh. What are you doing? Why would you even, why? Why would you even say that? It's not an official statistic, okay?

It's not. What are you doing? Oh, Lord. I was going to bring up the Yankees because they had been the judge in Cole's show. Yeah. And this year they've been the judge in Soto and also a lot of other players' show. Cole has not been around. He's got maybe one more rehab start and he'll be back. Yeah. It's kind of hard to see like who he'll displace in that rotation. I guess Karch made us hurt now. So that helps a little bit. Ironically, that helps weirdly because it

was like they really were facing a situation where Garrett Cole was about to be back and like, I'm not sure we have room for you, Garrett. Our rotation has been so good in your absence. Don't hurry back. Whereas you thought like, oh, the Yankees are doomed. Garrett Cole could miss a huge chunk of the season. What are they going to do without him? And then it's like, take your time, Garrett.

Have a few more rehab starts. But one reason for that lack of urgency, and to be clear, the Yankees would love to have Garrett Cole back as soon as he's ready. But one reason why that hasn't been as urgent as one thought it would be is that Luis Gil has basically pitched like Garrett Cole. And that is not an exaggeration.

Like, he really was the direct replacement for Garrett Cole. Like, he was off the roster and then Cole't go, and then he made the roster. He might not have been in the rotation at all if not for Garrett Cole's injury. And it's got to be one of the biggest upsets of the season that Heal has actually outpitched Garrett Cole in each of the past two seasons through 13 starts. So Luis Gil is through 13 starts now. He has a 2.04 ERA. His FIP is about a run higher, which is still good. He's somehow allowing like four hits per nine innings, which is unprecedented. And that kind of clues you in. Okay, there's a little luck going on here

and he's getting some good defensive support and he has an extremely low BABIP, not just because the entire league does, but because he's getting a little lucky probably. And yet he's done really well and the Yankees have won most of his starts. He's eaten one personally. So him through 13 starts, okay, 75 innings and the 3.05 FIP and the 2.04 ERA, he's amassed 1.9 fangraphs war. Well, Garrett Cole last year in his Cy Young season through his first 13 starts, 1.6 fangraphs war just below what Heal has accrued. Cole had pitched a few more innings, 79 and two-thirds.

He had a 2.82 ERA, 3.62 FIP. Cole in 2022 threw his first 13 starts, 1.3. Fangraphs were 73 innings, 3.33 ERA, 3.36 FIP. You have to go back to Cole's first full non-pandemic shortened season with the Yankees, 2021, to find a year when he was more productive through 13 starts than Luis Gil has been. And who saw that? If anyone foresaw that, I know there's always someone. There's some tweet out there.

There's someone who just threw a wild prediction out there because they'd look brilliant in retrospect if it came true. But I don't know if anyone would have predicted that Luis Gil, who I guess is still technically a rookie, right? He might be the front runner to start the All-Star game at this point. And obviously to win the Rookie of the Year award, Pitcher of the Month, Rookie of the Month. He's been kind of incredible. He made his MLB debut in 2021. He wasn't a big prospect at the time.

And he had an auspicious start. He was the first MLB starter since 1907 to give up no runs over his first three appearances, but he still wasn't really that heralded and then pitched once in 2022 before he got hurt or already was hurt. He had a torn UCL, had Tommy John surgery, just made it back to minor league rehab appearances last year. And again, like didn't make the team in spring training initially. They sent him down March 3rd until Cole was shut down and they brought him back up. So this is just incredible that he has matched Cole start for start, war for war through this point in the season.

I think that he is one of those guys where people weren't clear on his prospect eligibility coming into the season because of his early debut. I don't know if he was on. I'm not knocking other his early debut i don't know if he was on i'm not knocking other publications i just don't know where he sat i know we sat and had to count his active roster days a couple of times to feel confident that he was in fact rookie eligible but he's definitely different now even than when we ran our initial Yankees list, and he was like a 40-plus for us. We were like, that feels good. Like, that feels good.

We didn't anticipate this, and I think that we were higher on him than a lot of other people. Although, again, I don't know if he was on a bunch of lists because I think people thought he wasn't a rookie anymore. So, what a thing, Ben. Like, what a cool thing. And it's not like you can't figure it out when you watch him. Like, he does throw up to 99. Like, he's a high 90s guy.

He throws a lot of fastballs, but kind of high fastballs. Well, and he has a changeup now. Yes, and that. Yeah. He didn't have that before. Yeah, and it's a really good changeup. It's a really good changeup. Yeah, he went from throwing his slider as his primary secondary pitch to getting a good changeup.

And it's unlocked a lot of stuff for him. And he's been healthy. So that helps you. One contribution that Cole has made, though it's a group effort seemingly, to the Yankees this year is that the Yankees are big candle guys now. Yeah. Stephanie Epstein just wrote about this for Sports Illustrated. And I feel like they're following my lead here because we talked about this on a Patreon pod, a bonus pod a few months ago.

And I mentioned that I had become a big candle person all of a sudden. I was very into scented candles and still am. And the Yankees are too. This was something that Marcus Stroman started. And a few years ago, I guess he started lighting candles before starts like at home. And so he wanted to bring the calm that they generate to the workplace as well. And so he'll burn a candle and then he blows it out just before he goes to the dugout and he likes a strong scented candle. And so this has spread among the Yankees starters, like the whole staff has gotten into the candles and they're like ordering them online. They're

going to candle retailers, like in the village, they're going to stores and browsing the candle offerings. And apparently, I have not been to the Yankees clubhouse recently since this candle craze started. But now I feel like I got to go because it's like a place after my own heart here. Like, it smells great, apparently. I am somewhat skeptical just because it seems like there are several candles with several different scents burning. And like, have they coordinated? Have they ensured that these scents mix well and work well together and complement each other? But I guess so, according to Steph, it just smells great in there.

And it's a very pleasant, you know, you expect it to be socks and jocks in there. And it is, but the candle seems to be masking the sense that you might associate with a clubhouse. Socks and jocks. I just don't, you know, I think it's great. I do wonder, you live in New York, and surely there is some bougie candle shop that you're a Yankee. You have a limitless budget. You don't have to do just like Yankee Candles. But yes, Steph did make the slam dunk, give me Yankee Candle company joke, which of course you can't pass that one up. No, you can't.

I don't fault her for that. If she turned in copy that didn't have that joke in it and I was her editor, I would have questions for her. Yeah. They showed considerable restraint not making that the headline, in fact. But apparently, yes, Cole and Schmidt and Anthony Volpe went to a store in the West Village a few days ago. That was where I thought it would be. Yep. That's where I thought it would be.

Yep. And apparently Schmidt's mother runs a boutique and so has access to lots of candles. And she's kind of sent Clark Schmidt care packages like boxes of candles. That's delightful. The players greet their arrival with glee and with discernment. That's nice. And with discernment. They open up the box and they're sniffing. You know, know they become candle

connoisseurs they're they're candle aficionados i wonder how they resolve candle conflict i mean you've mentioned like the sense but like surely not every scent i you know grabs everybody like we we talked about this on our patreon episode like i don't like super sweet smelling candles like that tends to put me off and like anything patchouli scented is not for me if it is for you i am so happy you found a scent that you like okay like the hard seltzer yeah whatever tastes good to you whatever smells good yeah as long as i mean i probably want to avoid dolphin smell just like dolphin sure you know meat but um it's it's not my business you know if you like those smells great but presumably there are going to be um guys with differing tastes within the clubhouse and i i wonder how

they like do they have a rotation do they have a does the vet do the veterans get priority does the day's starter get priority i bet i bet that has a lot right it's like controlling the stereo you know the music selection It's the candle selection. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Steph says there have been notes of sandalwood, sea breeze, and citrus in recent weeks. Like citrus? It sounds like it is kind of a group effort. And also, there was some resentment at the suggestion that maybe the Yankees' wives might be the ones who were

selecting the candles. And Cole kind of bridled at that apparently, and he asked a burning question, as Steph put it. Why do you underestimate us? He asked. Because it's them. They're doing it, maybe with some assistance initially, but they have fully embraced this. And when we did our candle segment on our Patreon pod, I did say I was just getting your standard Yankee candles and that I had gotten some Christmas scented ones. And this was closer to Christmas, but it was certainly after Christmas. And so I kind of took this personally because shortstop Anthony Volpe recently requested a Christmas candle. And so Schmidt procured one for him. And then it says in a parenthetical, at least two Yankees officials expressed dismay at the 23-year-old's judgment.

It's June, one points out. And I will defend this because I'm burning a Christmas scented candle. I will defend this because I'm burning a Christmas scented candle and I love that scent year round. I've also on our Patreon pods said that I'm not averse to a Christmas song every now and then in the middle, which you have not gone along with that particular take. No, that's not for me. But this smell, it smells good year round. I'm not going to deprive myself of this scent just because it's not December. It's not that it smells bad. You know, I like, I like those smells. I just, I want them to stay special. And I like associating them with a

particular time of year. And part of it, Ben, is that it's 118 degrees here. I mean, it's not quite that hot today. It's like 105. But, you know, it's weird to have Christmas smell when it's like 105 but um you know it's weird to have christmas smell when it's it's so hot outside that you're like deep in climate anxiety you know it makes it hard i'm sure that's not maybe what they're dealing with in the in the clubhouse but there's a seasonality to these things ben you know there's a seasonality to them you gotta it's like how you can't watch jaws every year because at some point like what if you get sick of Jaws? Or to pick a Christmas example, can't watch Muppet Christmas Carol every year. What if you got sick of the Muppet Christmas Carol, Ben?

I'm pretty sure my wife's family watches the Muppet Christmas Carol every year. And they could never tire of it. And like, you know, my, my patience for that and my tolerance for it is, is higher than some, but not as high as everyone's. And so it's, you have to maintain some amount of special, you need the line and tiny Tim who did not die to hit. You need it to hit Ben.

I think they're more of a, a Muppets take Manhattan family than Muppets Christmas Carol, but both in the pantheon, obviously. Well, yeah, but like those are different. Again, those are different. One is seasonal. Yes. Yeah, one is seasonal. It's true.

And you were wondering how do they select the candles. It seems like anything goes. It seems like you can kind of burn whatever you want at your place in the clubhouse, and it becomes kind of a bouquet where you have different scents as you venture around the clubhouse. I would feel nervous about that. Yeah. Well, Steph does note that there is a robust sprinkler system for fire suppression here. Oh, I'm not worried about that.

Just for the scents. Yeah. Because she says at any moment you might spot half a dozen candles aflame. And that's why I'm saying I hope they're coordinating their efforts because, yeah. They need to coordinate. I'm a very smell-sensitive person. And so that sounds like a living nightmare to me. A waking nightmare is the expression.

Not living nightmare. What is that? You know, except the world that we live in. But, you know, there could be complementary smells. But, you know, like what if you get someone doing like a really sweet smell and you get someone else who's doing like a, you know, you know, all the the candles and deodorants that are geared toward men that are like verbs. You know, they're just named verbs. And it's like you can I appreciate very much that these guys were like we can have nice things that we initiate ourselves you know i have often said when i see uh ball players who

have you know hair that i think could stand a little conditioning treatment like you know you're allowed to have some nice things you can have nice it can be nice men like it can have nice, it can be nice, man. Like, it can smell nice. It can feel soft. You know, let it be nice. But here I am embracing some sort of essentialism as if ladies have, you know, the total purview over that. No, no. You can be a fellow who just likes a nice smell. That's nice. Have a nice candle time with your fellows.

I want to know if they start making their own candles. That's what I want to know. Because, like, you know. If it becomes an artisanal, yeah. Right. Right. They're kids. Baseball players, some have been known for dousing themselves in cologne.

And this, I mean, I'm sure this is not in place of that. Probably both of those activities are ongoing. So many smells at once. Oh, my God, wow. Yeah, that sounds a little, sounds overwhelming, the olfactory experience there. But this would be a preferable, maybe more subtle way to handle the scents. I did want to say this was kind of a candle sidetrack, but I was talking about Louise Heal and wanted to note that- That's what it was, Ben. It was Louise Heal, and wanted to note that. That's what it was, Ben.

It was Louise Heal. I don't know what Heal's preferred candle scent is or if he's a candle guy. He's not mentioned in the story, but seems to be going well for him, whatever he's doing. Maybe he likes to change it up. That's a joke about him having a good change up now. I got it. But over the past few weeks here, a month or so, actually exactly a month, we're recording on June 11th. If we look back to May 11th, one month ago, and we look at the pitcher war leaders since then, Luis Gil is on top.

Well, he's tied for first, I guess, but the fan graphs, you know, it extends to decimal places that we cannot see on the leaderboards. And so if you're number one on the leaderboard, but you have the same visible number as the number two guy, you probably are actually number one if you go out to enough decimal places. So Louise Hill, technically tied or maybe second over that span. Number one on the leaderboard since May 11th in Fangraph's Pitcher War, Matt Waldron of the Padres. I said we need to talk more about Matt Waldron. He's giving us ample opportunities. I've tried to talk to Matt Waldron. I've tried to secure a Matt Waldron appearance on the podcast, as have others.

And apparently he is not someone who seeks the limelight. He is not a Harper or a Hernandez. And so, yeah, he'll do interviews. If you're in the clubhouse, he'll talk to the local reporters, but he's not really accepting interview requests from outsiders, national media to this point. And that is certainly his prerogative. But if he ever does feel like coming on Effective Luau,

he's always welcome. But I am thrilled that over this span, it's six starts for him, 35 and a third innings. He has a 1.78 ERA, and it's not really super spooky. I mean, he does have a 264 BABIP, but knuckleballers have low BABIPs historically. And he has a 2.07 FIP because he's actually been good. Like he's struck out almost 10 per nine innings. He's walked only two. He hasn't given up many homers. Like he has just been effective now over his last several starts.

And I am thrilled to see it. The knuckleball is not just working for him. It's working extraordinarily well. Arguably, he should throw up more. Arguably, yeah. One could make the argument and it would not be ridiculous. I am fully in favor of that. But I would say keep doing what you're doing, Matt Waldron,

because you've been maybe the best pitcher in baseball over the past month or so. And I also want to shout out also appearing on that list at 6th and 7th, respectively, war since May 11th. But also, maybe more importantly, appearing 2nd and 3rd, respectively, on the full season, FanCraft's war leaderboard behind, of course, as we all predicted, Tanner Houck, most valuable pitcher in baseball by FanCraft's war. But as many people actually did predict, number two, T we all predicted, Tanner Houck, most valuable pitcher in baseball by Frank Grassmore. But as many people actually did predict, number two, Tarek Skubal, and number three, Cole Riggins. Yeah.

So two AL Central rotation toppers here who were, look, they were popular, I guess, breakout picks, except they shouldn't have been breakout picks because they broke out last year. And people who were paying attention were marveling at how good they were last year. So they were kind of associated with each other in my mind, not just because they were both in the AL Central, but because they both kind of really turned it on at roughly the same time. So Scooble debuted last season, July 4th, and he led all MLB pitchers in Fangraff's war from that point forward. And then Reagan's joined the Royals rotation for good on August 2nd, and he led the majors in Fangraff's war from that point forward. So over the past two or three months of last season,

they were a couple of the best pitchers in baseball. And so it's not really that much of a shock, I guess, that they've been two of the best pitchers in baseball over the first two or three months of this season. But they really have kept it up. You know, there was some question like, well, will they pumpkin? Was that real? It seemed like they certainly had the stuff and people were impressed by that. But yeah, they absolutely have kept it up and scoobles season superficially certainly looks more impressive because he's got the sub two era whereas cole reagan's is slightly over three but fip wise very similar so scoobles at 2.19 fip reagan's is at 2.31 and uh almost identical innings totals so i've just been watching like one guy goes and then the other guy goes. And they have just kind of matched each other start for start, even if Scooble has allowed fewer runs, which is also pretty important for the team that you're pitching to. But I'm pleased that those breakout guys from last year have continued to be broken out. that those breakout guys from last year have continued to be broken out.

Yes, because on the position player side, it's been a little bit of a disappointment for some of last year's breakouts. Some of those guys have not yet kicked it into a gear commensurate with their 2023 performance. We're still trying to figure out what's going on with Corbin Carroll. So on that end of things, things have been a little bit of a letdown but yeah these guys have been great it's definitely brought something exciting to a division race that i think is way more compelling than anyone anticipated it being when the tigers came through i saw scoobles start i went in on a ticket and so i was behind home and his performance

against the D-backs that night was one of the most dominant in-person performances I've seen from a pitcher in a really long time. It was like, this is a special kind of thing. I know Skeens and Jones are the new, new hotness, but let's not forget about last year's. Right. And the way to think about it is that we are simply enjoying each league's hotness, you know, each league has its hotness. And we are here. Central division even. Yeah.

Yeah. We are just appreciators of the respective central's hotness. Not a weird sentence at all. You know, here we are appreciating it. Yep. Okay. Couple follow-ups. Things we talked about last time and got listener responses to just want to mention. We talked about

how you can be less hated as a dynasty, if not universally beloved, what are the factors that might lead to a team being embraced or everyone not being immediately sick of them once they have some success. And one listener, Dylan, in the Discord group mentioned that the San Antonio Spurs and the NBA are a decent example. Sure, yeah. The Spurs from 99 to 2007, he wrote, hit pretty much every factor discussed for having a not-hated dynasty. And I still think people grew pretty sick of them. Completely refreshed roster. That's one thing we talked about.

Small market, no other winners, not a traditionally hated fan base. It's true, I guess, you know, and maybe they were play style is something we alluded to, but maybe like if you're seen as being, I don't know if you were like super fundamentally sound like the Spurs or if you're just really like a riveting type of play, I guess, then that might help too, right? And maybe it helps because like once it looped back around, Xander was mentioning the spurs of like 2013, 2014, they went back to the finals, they were loved again. And by then Dylan noted another looming dynasty was more hated. So maybe that's the answer. There has to be like a more hated dynasty or like it's been going on so long that there's like nostalgia, like it's the last time this group is going to do it. Like the warriors are going out there one more time, like that kind of thing. But I thought maybe the most insightful follow up was from listener Jscape2000, also in the Patreon Discord, who noted the Dusty Baker effect. So you have to go get someone who is individually revered and beloved.

And then even if your team has a negative reputation, you almost have to hand it to them because it's like, well, I want Dusty to win one. Right, right. So like the Astros, they hired Dusty Baker. It's like, well, I don't want the Astros to win, but it would be nice if Dusty won his first one as a manager. That would be kind of cool. And people even felt happy for him, even as they were like, well, I don't want some of the sign stealers to win again. So maybe that's the secret. And he suggested like the 2027 dynastic Orioles, maybe they trade for Mike Trout at that

point. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You could go get someone like that, someone who has not won their ring yet, beloved veteran, even like in a part-time bench role. If you could consciously collect one of those players every year where neutral observers or even your haters would have no choice but to say, well, okay, it would be nice to see that guy win. So-and-so get a ring. That might be a hack for the hatred. When you think about, like, to return to the Spurs example, like, I think that people liked their big three a lot. People love Pop, right? People love Greg Popovich.

People love Pop, right? People love Greg Popovich. And they did the thing that I think we talked about the last time where it's like, yeah, they won championships and they were in the finals a lot, but they didn't always win much although they did they did really win a lot for a while there ben they really you know they really won and now they get one vinyama so they're just like right the most exciting but um i mean i don't know if they're most exciting but he's very exciting but yeah i think that that's a good way to do it is like have like the have a designated roster spot where you're just like who's the veteran that people love who hasn't gotten to do it like who has to check this off their career accomplishments yeah maybe somebody should have traded for felix man oh but if felix had won like if felix had won a world series with houston um i'm not well that's that's uncomfortable like i'm just thinking not all of the teams would have been bad, but like that would have been an abomination. That would have, no, I don't like it.

Now I'm uncomfortable. Speaking of Trout, we also talked about Angel's attendance and why it hasn't ticked down more than it has in the post-Ohtani era and the troutless, largely troutless team this year, and also just the completely hopeless and mostly unwatchable and not a lot of star power just piling on at this point. All the reasons why one would have not to attend an Angels game. And yet, they've only had a single-digit decrease in attendance at home. And we got a couple of responses from locals, maybe, and at least one local and who were well-informed about the factors affecting angels' attendance. And Brock, for one, noted Disneyland. This could be why the angels have such a high attendance for. Well, let me lay out his case. I'm skeptical of this one, though.

Okay. Brock says, cannot be emphasized enough how big Disney's proximity is to the Angels numbers. In my experience, it's less about the domestic travelers and more that Disneyland is such a major international tourist destination. Once upon a time, I worked in a very touristy part of almost always to the Walk of Fame, a day at the beach, generally Huntington, Newport, or Laguna, and an Angels game at Angels Stadium. I've been seated near visitors from more countries than I can count. If you really enjoy answering the questions of people attending their first baseball game, I find that the ideal place to do that is at an Angels home game. the ideal place to do that is at an Angels home game. Not that other parks don't get their share of international tourists, but I don't believe any other parks are directly adjacent to a major destination for international travel like the Angels are.

Yankee Stadium is a thing to do on the long list of things to do for a New York visitor. Angel Stadium is one of the things to do for visitors simply because it doesn't require venturing more than five to ten minutes from their hotel. Okay. You know what? I stand corrected. I stand corrected. Yeah. I hadn't considered that very obvious connection either. We didn't mention that. And we got one other email from listener Kenny, who has a number of reasons why that would be the case. Kenny was born and raised in Orange County and has been to dozens of games over the years, though he's lived out of state for

the past few years. He says, as you know, attendance is not butts in seats, but tickets sold, and I've been to many a game where the actual in-stadium attendance falls well short of the announced attendance. That is true. That's true for any team, really. And Sam, in one of his tweets about this, he did

kind of compare visually, and at least to his satisfaction, it seemed like visually the number of people who were actually in the park didn't really seem to have dropped off in games where he compared the listed attendances. Kenny continues, the team has been bad or mediocre for years. Yes, Angels fans know the deal and come for the baseball and atmosphere as much as to see the team do well. Plus, not all fans who were drawn in by Otani have left now that Otani has as well. I guess that's true. You were kind of converted to Angels fandom and now he's gone.

You're just left holding the Angels fan bag without your idol. That's a raw deal for you. Maybe you're happy. As Meg pointed out, this is number three, there have been a number of big-name teams visiting so far this year. Yep, Angel Stadium is a haven for traveling fans. A large number of transplants in the Southern California area and Disneyland and other attractions nearby make the area an enticing vacation destination. Then he notes also game times starting earlier at 6.40 rather than 7.05 or 7.10. And the pitch clock.

Yes, that is true. But that's, you know, more of a league wide issue than Angel specific. Kenny also says it's very easy to get to the stadium. It's right off the freeway, right near the confluence of three major freeways. There's bountiful parking and even a designated Amtrak train that stops right by the stadium. So low barrier to entry in that sense. And in another sense also, because Kenny says, possibly the biggest factor, at least in my opinion, is going to Angels games is the cheapest form of entertainment in Arge County, save for

free events. In the door, ticket prices start at five bucks, fees included. You can get a good seat for less than 15 bucks and you can splurge to get club level tickets for 30. If you're willing to walk an extra five minutes, there's free street parking. And most importantly, their food policy is the best in sports. As long as you're not bringing in a buffet, you can bring basically anything. My cousin and I once brought a Costco pizza because we were inspired by another group that had done it. So for a family of four who want to go to the Monday, June 17th game against the Brewers, they can get four tickets, upper deck behind home plate, fourth row for $40 total, bring water bottles and a bag of peanuts and sunflower seeds and popcorn and a large pizza

for dinner, park across the street for free, throw in dessert at the stadium. You're looking at about 80 bucks for a family of four for dinner and a show. The Angels might be missing talent and a winning record, but they'll always draw unless Artie Moreno pulls a Fisher. Yeah. He seems like he could be a candidate at some point. But I'm, you know, I don't want to hand it to him because like you don't have to hand it to him. But I am pleasantly surprised that it remains an affordable option because I would have had him at the top of

my list for of owners who are gonna like gouge their fans unnecessarily um so that's that's pretty exciting honestly yeah and it's not like the the ticket prices uh some fans think there's a connection between oh they're spending a lot on payroll and thus they'll have to raise ticket prices. But no, they will raise them to whatever the market will support and what people will pay. And there are many instances of a team not investing in the on-field product and still raising prices, right? As what the Mariners did not long ago last year, right? People were pissed about that. Yeah, season ticket prices went up. And also thanks to the several people who notified us that Nestor Cortez of the Yankees was

pulled mid-plate appearance. He was pulled after one pitch and we got a flurry of emails and direct messages alerting us to this, oh, is strategy happening? Is this finally what Ben has been waiting for? And no, it was not. It was a false alarm. Michael Tonkin, who was coming in for the Yankees, was actually summoned by mistake. That's what happened here. Oh, no. Yeah. Aaron Boone said they called for a pickoff attempt to give Tonkin more time to warm up.

So they were trying to stall, but there was a mix-up. And instead of a pickoff attempt, Cortez just threw a pitch. And so he was removed. Once I saw it, he threw one ball and was removed, which doesn't seem like strategy. That seems like stalling or a mistake or something. It's not like they got ahead of the guy and then brought in someone else to finish them off with two strikes or something. So it was a false alarm, but thank you to everyone. It's good to know that the notification system works. You know, it's like in the event of an emergency, you want to know that you're going to get

notified in time. And I now know, granted, it was a Yankees game, probably a lot of people watching it. But this makes me think that if there is a mid-plate appearance pitching change for real at any point in any game, we will be alerted to that fact. So that is heartening. And finally, we got an email that asked, I guess, not literally but implicitly, how can you not be pedantic about dinosaurs? We got a couple. not be pedantic about dinosaurs. We got a couple. Yeah, we got a species correction here off of the recent riff about pterodactyls. And so we got a pterodactyl correction. So Alan wrote in to note

that pterodactyls are pterosaurs, not dinosaurs, or were, I guess. They're not anything now. Yeah. Alan also noted that birds are dinosaurs. So I think we're well aware of that. I've seen a grackle, man. Yeah. Pterodactyls are or were not actually that large and are actually very lightly built. So Meg's fear of being picked up and carried by a pterodactyl is unfounded, as most pterosaurs using a very rough average wouldn't be able to carry more than a dozen pounds. So is that reassuring to you? want to stress that this is a hypothetical in which like suddenly there are dinosaurs there are no there aren't dinosaurs now there are no active dinosaurs that leaderboard is empty so i'm not like fostering an active fear of dinosaurs because they're all dead not their fault but it happened you know the second thing is is that I didn't know they weren't dinosaurs.

They're in all the dinosaur stuff, Ben. You know, they're in all of the dinosaur movies and shows. They're in all the collages. You see a picture of a mural of a bunch of dinosaurs. They're dinosaur adjacent, certainly. They coincided, you know, unlike the cavemen. They were actually there at the same time. Right, right, certainly. They coincided, you know, unlike the cavemen. They were actually there at the same time. Right, right. Yeah. Caveman, Jesus, you know, it's like there's an overlaps

here. And Alan was quick to point out that there is another kind of big thing. I'm not going to say it right, so I'm not going to pretend to. Oh, yes. I tried. I looked up the pronunciation. Will I get it right? Who knows? But Quetzalcoatlus, maybe the largest asdarkid. That I may be mispronouncing, but a different class of winged beast may have been able to lift a human, but would have been at the extreme of their lifting capacity. Yeah. And then like, here's the thing. You Google that. Including the classic Dinotopia, which I enjoyed the hell out of as a kid, both as a book and then as a weird, unnecessary miniseries. So, yeah, they were definitely in at least one of the Jurassic movies, I think. One of the Jurassic Park movies. I think one of the lesser ones, if we're offering unsolicited advice to the people who are making those movies. But like I think they were in one of those and they looked like they could lift up a person and then they have these beaks.

Well, I hope you're not too disappointed after learning velociraptors are small. Now, you know, pterodactyls were small, too. Oh, yeah. As I said to Alan, I think, you know, some things could simply remain the business of the fossil record. This doesn't have to be a me problem. I just invite people to like, um, experience a grackle in real life is we don't really have a lot of, um, crows here in Arizona. Um, but we have, we have grackles and, uh, a lot of people hate grackles cause they're kind of a pest and like they're, they, you know, know they they steal things and they make

a sound and i think that all of those are reasonable reasons to be like they're not the bird for me um but i think that what people are really responding to is um a deep discomfort with looking at one and going that's definitely related to a dinosaur you know like somewhere up the evolutionary chain dinosaur preceded that thing because they are, they're like dinosaur-like, you know? And also the flying because Alan said if we want an extant species to be afraid of, he suggested a cassowary. I think there are three species of cassowary, which is a flightless bird, a large one, several feet tall. But Alan says a cassowary is essentially a dinosaur that could conceivably be encountered in our time and would absolutely wreck you.

And that is true, but also it's a flightless bird, so it cannot carry you away. It's not the same. That's basically a bear. Right. I'm not trying to disrespect it because I think it would mess me up. You know, I have a healthy keep my distance from wildlife. You know, you learn that in Girl Scouts. But it is the flying part that makes, I'm just going to say pterodactyl because I know how to say it, you know. That makes the pterodactyls of movies terrifying because like they can swoop in and get you, you know?

Yeah. Well, we appreciate the correction, the pterodactyl clarification. Oh, sure. Also, wanted to end with this note, since we started with a Phillies, well, former outfielder in Bryce Harper's case. The hacker who hacked Buster only this week tweeted a number of tweets, most of which were clearly implausible, although some of them also caught on. It was, if you were following it in the moment, sort of a humorous trajectory because whoever this hacker was, was just like tweeting weird like GIFs and, you know, non sequiturs and then being like, I don't even know who this Buster guy is. Buster only 1.3 million Twitter followers were recipients of these tweets. But then very quickly, but it seemed like at least in a matter of minutes, this person went from having no idea who Buster Only was to being informed, presumably by

Buster Only's followers, and then immediately transitioning into trying to replicate Buster Only's voice and things that he might actually tweet. And, you know, I almost led by asking you, like, well, let's rank the Buster only hacker tweets by plausibility. But almost all of them were, of course, completely implausible. Right. There was one about Shohei Otani being suspended and possibly like banned for life and imprisoned for life for gambling stuff. There was the season being suspended due to covid, which, you know, would have been plausible a few years ago, but not so much now. And then the Orioles moving to Las Vegas so that the A's would stay in Oakland. I mean, it was kind of weird stuff.

It was kind of like trying to mimic newsbreaking, but pretty implausible news if you're at all paying attention to. news-breaking but pretty implausible news if you're at all paying attention to. I mean, I think the Otani thing probably got some people, but casual observers perhaps, like Francisco Lindor being traded to the A's, which I guess you could conceive of a Francisco Lindor trade somehow, but to the A's, not sure how that's going to happen. But the one that actually probably got circulated most because it pretty much passed muster was the Phillies trading for Luis White Sox are finalizing a deal that will send star outfielder Luis Robert Jr. to Philadelphia, sources tell ESPN. It's almost like this person was like chat GPT-ing, like what would Buster Olney tweet maybe, you know? I would not be shocked. Yeah, yeah. And it worked. A lot of people got caught by that one because you see Buster Olney tweeting this. And it's been reported that Robert is on the market. We talked about that recently.

I think John Heyman had even linked Robert to the Phillies recently. So if we see at some point real news about a Luis Robert to the Phillies trade broken, I will have to wait and do some due diligence because it's kind of a boy who cried wolf, a hacker who tweeted a trade. Like that could happen if they actually do go ahead with a Robert trade because the Phillies are 23rd in outfield WRC plus and also 23rd in outfield war. And, you know, they could certainly use Luis Robert. I don't know if they could get him, but they would want him.

They'd have a place to play him. They got Castellanos. They got Dahl. They got Johan Rojas and his great glove but weak bat out there. Luis Robert, that'd be a big upgrade for a team that doesn't necessarily need one. But just saying, that might turn out to be a prescient tweet by this still unknown hacker. Do you think that MLB Trade Rumors will credit the hacker first if that

trade goes through? I hope whoever is at MLB Trade Rumors and allow me to say thank you for your service in laying out the chronology of credit because it's very useful to me as an editor making sure that we give appropriate credit and link to the right guys and

gals and whatnot. So I don't want to make it a jokey thing, but I think you can have one little joke as a treat. Yes. A tweet treat. You can have a sweet tweet treat. Yeah. That's the hardest thing I've ever said in my entire life. In all my 37, almost 38 years, I've never said anything more challenging than that. Baseball Reference has jokey player pages and memes. And, you know,

it's fun to have that happen. I would think that if this had been the first tweet that the hacker had sent, that would have done some serious numbers. Because the thing is that this hacker led off with a bunch of nonsensical stuff, like very clearly, oh, he's been hacked. Yes. So some people at least were aware. You never know with the algorithm what you're going to see and what's going to be surfaced. But some people were well aware that Buster only had been hacked here. It's been a while since one of the prominent newsbreakers was hacked. And the thing is that when they do get hacked, like Jeff Passan got hacked a couple of years

ago with NFT nonsense, right? But that person didn't try to pose as jeff passan while having possession of his account whereas this this hacker quickly pivoted to trying to mimic buster only but if he had started off that way if he had just dropped the bomb of the louise robert trade instead of the prelude of all the weird stuff that clued us into what was happening here Instead of the prelude of all the weird stuff that clued us into what was happening here. That would have been big. It would have been so great.

I feel like they messed it up. They needed to be a little more strategic. But again, they didn't know who they had hacked. That's incredible. They were just like, oh, I got a live one here. This hacker was kind of a hack. All right. That will do it for today.

And hey, now that we have our dinosaurs and non-dinosaurs straight, a quick correction to make of something I said. Listener Patreon supporter David S. writes in, in talking about the Braves shutout last streak, he referred to the 1978 and 79 Brewers as Harvey's wallbangers. Harvey Keene didn't take over as Brewers manager until partway through the 82 season. The 78 Brewers, with some of the same offensive talent as the 82 team, Yount, Molitor, Cecil Cooper, Gorman Thomas, was nicknamed Bambi's Bombers after manager George Bamberger. Good point. You can support Effectively Wild not just by setting us straight when we air, but also by helping fund the podcast on Patreon, which you can do by going to patreon.com slash effectivelywild. The following five listeners have already signed up

and pledged some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going, help us stay ad-free, and get themselves access to some perks. C.T. Douglas, Jason Tedford, Andy, Jay Swift, and Richard Schaefer. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams, prioritized email answers, and so much more. Check out all the offerings at patreon.com slash effectively wild. If you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can still contact us via email,

send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcast at fangraphs.com. You can rate, review, and subscribe to Effectively Wild on iTunes and Spotify and other podcast We'll see you then. for upcoming Effectively Wild listener meetups at MLB Ballparks. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with another episode soon. Talk to you then. Effectively Wild.