Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2287: Season Preview Series: Rangers and Pirates

Episode Date: February 22, 2025

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about the end of the Yankees’ beard ban, the potential end of MLB’s business relationship with ESPN, and whether the World Baseball Classic should imitate the NHL’s 4 Nations Face-Off. Then they preview the 2025 Texas Rangers (50:07) with MLB.com’s Kennedi Landry, and the 2025 Pittsburgh Pirates (1:27:23) with […]

Hello and welcome to episode 2287 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fan Crafts presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of The Ringer joined by Meg Rowley of Fan Crafts. Hello Meg. Hello. Well, we have two team previews today. We're actually going past the halfway point already in the season preview series.

Yeah, we're sailing along here. So we will have Kennedy Landry of NLB.com to talk about the Texas Rangers and John Prado of Pittsburgh baseball now to talk about the Pittsburgh Pirates. But before we get to our previews, two eras ended, not just the end of an era, but the end of two eras potentially,

the era of MLB being on ESPN and the era of no facial hair being on Yankees' cheeks. The beard policy is no more, or at least it's greatly amended. The Yankees will be allowing beards, not just any beard, well-groomed beards. But still. They can't help themselves, can they?

No, no they can't. They can't quite get there, but. Yeah, I don't know exactly the genesis of this Hal Steinbrenner made it sound like this is something that's been in the works for a while that they've had conversations about. He said, in recent weeks, I've spoken to a large number of former and current Yankees spanning several eras to elicit their perspectives on our longstanding facial hair and grooming policy. And I appreciate their earnest and varied feedback. I'd love to know what it was.

Varied. That suggests that they're probably some old-timer, some hardliners. You know, this is the downfall of civilization as we know it if we allow well-groomed beards. He went on to say, these most recent conversations are an extension of ongoing internal dialogue that dates back several years, not to mention external dialogue that dates back decades. Ultimately, the final decision rests with me, and after great consideration, we will be amending our expectations

to allow our players and uniformed personnel to have well-groomed beards moving forward. It is the appropriate time to move beyond the familiar comfort of our former policy. It is probably far past the appropriate time. I don't know that there ever was an appropriate time to have this policy, but usually when people say George would be rolling over in his grave, it's about Hal not spending enough, about Hal complaining about competitive balance taxes or something. In this case, it is about ending the famous

George Steinbrenner facial hair policy, which has been in place for almost 50 years since 1976. So wow, didn't expect to find this news today. Yeah, I was a little surprised when I first saw a screenshot of the statement. I thought that someone was having a funny, you know, doing a little joke. I, okay. So like, here's the thing. I think that this is a good thing. This is a good step. I do have questions about like the scope of the policy

because, you know, we noted that they have this well-kept concept here. So you can't quite let go who you are, I suppose. But part of the policy around facial hair and grooming that folks have found objectionable in the past is extended beyond the beards. There have been a number of players who have come into the Yankees organization with dreadlocks and been, I assume, asked to cut them. And so I'm curious if that part of the policy is also being changed. You know, there's like a, I think, inescapable racial component to this policy and always has been. And so in a moment where we are seeing retrenchment around that in other sectors of our country,

I'm glad to see sort of forward progress here. But I do have questions, you know, and I am, I do want to know about the timing of it, you know, because you're right to note that it is not as if this has been unremarked upon prior to now, internally and externally, there have been people in the game who have had a lot to say about how the Yankees police this aspect of their players' presentation and personhood. So I hope we get more reporting around why the shift now, like what about this moment made him decide like it was time to loosen up a little bit. I am curious sort of what the enforcement of it will look like because since there is this caveat about the state of the beards,

there will need to be enforcement, right? There are going to be determinations made about how well-kept any of these guys are. So that part still remains to be seen, but it's good, Ben. I think it's good, because the best you could say about it was that it was very silly. And there are, I think, harsher and more direct things you could say about it. So I'm glad to see them move on this.

And now, floodgates should be open. Put the names on the back, buddy. Oh, sure, why not? Put them on there. Yeah, let's do it. Let's take a step forward, a bold new direction. Some City Connect Yankees jerseys. You don't need a City Connect.

I think here's a take, unrelated to the Yankees. I think we've progressed past the need for City Connects. Oh, I agree, yeah. Which isn't to say that some of the ones we have, some of the existing city connects aren't great. And I would be perfectly happy for them to stay in regular rotation, but we we've evolved past the need for city connects. We're into everything looks like, you know, a streamers hat territory.

I'm at the point where I just think they have bolts of fabric laying around that they gotta get moved. So we can be done with that, but I think the name should be on the back of Jersey's. I think that, I think, especially now that the letters are back to being the normal size, what an opportunity. Put George on there real big, put it as big as he is.

Yeah, I can never really pick him out, you know? Mom's like, which one is Aaron Judge? Yeah, it's tough. And if he is able to grow a beard, which do we know that he can do that? Don't know. Then just another face in the crowd, a Brooklyn hipster if ever I saw one, you know?

Yeah, yeah, there's a picture that often circulates of Judge with facial hair, but I think it's photoshopped. I think it is too, yeah. So yeah, the only amusing part of this was circulating online in the wake of this announcement, the George Steinbrenner story about Lou Pennella trying to get Steinbrenner to change the policy, and Pennella said to Steinbrenner, Jesus Christ had long hair and a beard. Why can't we have beards and long hair?

The Yankees owner showed him a small pond beyond the outfield fence. You see that pond? Steinbrenner said, walk across that pond and you can have a beard and long hair. But imagine that I said that in Larry David's Steinbrenner voice, but kind of amusing, but, uh, you know,

just, uh, very silly standard. Will the Yankees now retire God bless America during the seventh inning stretch, the lone team that's still clinging to that. Who knows what, what might happen now? They are not the lone team clinging to that. Aren't they, aren't they the lone MLB team at least? Aren't they the only one that does it every time at least? They might be the only one that does it every time, but no, there are teams that do that.

They do that on Sundays, I think, don't they? Well, maybe. There are other teams that do it on Sundays, I think. It's every time for the Yankees. Which is... Frated with all sorts of stuff. Yeah. So I do wonder.

Yeah, it's interesting timing amid the quote unquote great unwokening the Yankees have decided to get with the program here. I guess, you know, it's a countercultural move for them now to allow well-groomed beards. But I wonder whether it will extend to other things, as you said, there was some buzz about Luis Castillo a few years ago when Yankees were potentially interested in trading for him and he was not interested in potentially changing his hairstyle. Or Andrew McCutcheon, he got his dreads after he was with the Yankees, I believe, but he said at that point

that if he had been with the Yankees when he had had them, it would have been very difficult for him to cut them. So yeah, will it extend to other types of hair and what does well-groomed mean exactly? Does that, is that like a length prohibition or is it really about the grooming? Like if you had Brian Wilson's beard when it was at its beardiest,

which I wouldn't call it well-groomed in the sense that the entire thing was maybe a mistake, but it was neat. It was orderly. It was well maintained, I suppose. So is it more about the length? Like that would be too long. Or is it more about like a Charlie Blackman beard where it just looks like

Archie Bradley beard? Yeah. Like there could be birds in there nesting. There could be creatures, you know, tiny mice with top hats making a nest, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see whether anyone tests this and, you know, tiny mice with top hats making a nest, you know. Yeah, yeah. So we'll see whether anyone tests this and, you know, pushes the envelope a little and whether the Yankees will actually crack down and say, you know, hey, Mattingly,

trim those sideburns kind of thing, we'll see. And there was some suggestion that this maybe had to do with concerns about this being a competitive disadvantage. Like, you know, you might have players who just wouldn't want to play for you. You might miss out on someone. It would be very funny if one Soto came out now and was just like, yeah, I was going to sign with them,

but I was interested in growing a beard and they said no. And that's why I chose the Mets. But really like we should probably credit Devin Williams. I think Devin Williams might be the guy who made this happen. And I feel bad for him because he showed up with a beard and that was somewhat notable because he's no longer in the brewers, he's in Yankees now.

And he had to shave, but now this policy changed. And I guess the timing would have been better if it had happened before he had to shave. So now he's gotta grow the beard back if he wants to. He did like the Instagram post from the Yankees about this, but like it's gotta be him, you know? They were so taken aback by the sight of beardless Devin Williams

or just were aware that he was not pleased, right? It was reported that he wasn't happy about needing to shave. Maybe that was the hair that broke the policies back. Like maybe that was what made it happen. Or maybe it was the site of Gleiber Torres showing up in Tiger's camp with a beautiful beard that he could have been rocking all this time and was denied the opportunity to.

And when the Tiger Tigers reporters showed him this Yankees announcement, he didn't believe it. He didn't think it was real either. So yeah, maybe it was that. It's like, wow, look how much fresher our players could potentially be looking. Not that there's any shortage of beards in baseball these days, but still,

maybe it was that or maybe it was Williams. I feel like we got a credit, Devin Williams, with being the guy who made this happen until we learn otherwise. And I think that the guys who get traded for are always the ones where I think that it's the most ridiculous. Like, you know, Miguel Castro had to cut his dreads when he became a Yankee. Like that's ridiculous. You know, I understand that like lots of workplaces have sort of professional, you know, there's like an expectation of quote unquote professionalism and that manifests sometimes in the way you look. Like I wore a suit to work every day

when I worked at Goldman. I don't do, I don't put on a suit to go sit in my office at home, Ben. Like I don't do that. But players are already participating in a literal uniform. And I just find this stuff totally harmless, right? And it feels good that it's changed. I guess we can say, based on the beard he had, that at least Devin Williams will likely be able to regrow his beard. That's good. You got to be with the times, you know, you got to be with the times, Ben. And they had not been and now they're closer. So yeah, further elaboration from Hal Steinbrenner here. I did make the decision that the policy that was in place was outdated, given how important it is to that generation and given that it is the norm in

this world today, that was somewhat unreasonable. So I made the change. He sounds like, you know, some fifties guys like talking about hippies and beatniks or something. Okay, but sure. Bunch of long hairs. Yes, I get what you're saying. But honestly, if more people's like posture toward the world were to be things have changed and I should facilitate the new generation sort of living up to their norms, expectations, whatever, I think would be in a lot better place, like as society and species. So I'll happily go with him on that road.

I think that that is a refreshing perspective, even if he does sound a little grumpy while delivering it. I'm happy to have people get on board however belatedly, but it is amusing that it's like that generation, like the youth today, it's like, this is not new. It's not like, you know, Gen Z invented beards or something. Right, no, yeah, definitely not. Beards were big in baseball in the 19th century. This is not new. Hal, anyway, I did make it clear to the players

that it's going to be a well-groomed, clean look. It is important to the leaders of our team who I talked to that we maintain that disciplined look. So it's like, if you see something, say something. Like, report your teammate whose beard is not well-groomed. that disciplined look. So it's like, you know, if you see something, say something like, uh, you know, report your, your teammate whose beard is not well groomed. We'll set up an email so that you can, uh, report beard abuse or something. All of you know me well enough to know that I don't like addressing hypotheticals, but I'm going to break my own rule today.

He said, this was a part of my thought process and part of the decision that I made. If I ever found out that a player we wanted to acquire to make us better, to get us a championship, did not want to be here. And if he had the ability, but would not come here because of that policy, as important as it is to that generation, that generation, it's, it's like every generation, it's not specific to one particular generation. There are people in every generation, in your generation, house dive writer who have beards. That would be very, very concerning. I am fairly

convinced that's a real concern. So he thought it was maybe a competitive disadvantage. I don't know, man. Like there are a lot of players who express displeasure about the policy and, you know, like, you know, players who maybe they didn't articulate it in terms of the beard policy but felt that there was, you know, a vibe that did not comport with their, them feeling like they had appropriate worth there. Like, this is a thing. This has been a thing for a long time. I don't think that they are newly missing out on players because of this. I think there

are plenty of players who probably think that policy is dumb and don't like it and ended up signing with the Yankees anyway because they were offered good money or they wanted to be a Yankee and that meant something to them. But yeah, I do wonder, like, did he hear a specific thing, you know? Because all of this is very general

and I wonder if someone did say, it wouldn't have been Soto because he appears to be relatively clean shaven at Metz camp, but I do wonder. I do wonder. Or is it preparation for, now, Vlad Guerrero Jr. once said he'd never sign with the Yankees, not even dead, which is quite amusing, although I think he subsequently softened that last year, in fact. He was asked about that because there was some possibility

that he might be traded and he said, sometimes one says things. It is not that I'm trying to take back what I said about the Yankees, but this is a business. I sat down and spoke with my dad and my family and this is a business. And I said, I with my dad and my family and this is a business. And I said, I would never again talk about this topic and lots of people have asked me about it.

So he said it was a personal thing that goes back with my family. This was when he talked about it initially. But if he is in theory open to being a Yankee now, I wonder whether this was in preparation for his free agency, because he's had a bit of a beard or a chin strap or I don't know what you would call it somewhere between those two, but probably

wouldn't have been allowed. Sometimes he has had that. So maybe, maybe it's with an eye towards him or some other future free agent, or maybe it really was just got to get with the times and not even these times, but like the sixties, I don't know, the seventies. So yeah, this is overdue. The only part of it that I lament is that if you were someone who hated the Yankees and there are plenty of people who do, this made them even more hateable. And so I kind of appreciated the way that they leaned into the heel aspect of things by having this restrictive policy because it was just such an example of like Yankees

exceptionalism and I'm someone who grew up rooting for this team, but they you know held themselves apart There have been other teams that in the past have had this sort of policy, but it's it's been a while So it was yet another example of oh the Yankees think they're better than everyone else. And they're so special. You can't have a beard if you go there. And there's the super clean shaven corporate Yankees. Like it kind of, it fit their image. It was part of their image. And so I don't think that there won't be other things that people can hate the Yankees for, but it did kind of, it fit. I get that piece of it. But like, and I'm not saying you're suggesting otherwise, but like ultimately, I don't know, people will be comfortable at work and Yankees, the Yankees

will give us other grist for the mill. If nothing else, their fans reaction to this will probably some fuel for the fire. I don't want to overstate things. I'm sure a great, great many Yankees fans are pleased with the change and every fan base has grumps and reactionaries. But it'll be okay. Yes, I'm sure there's some contingent, some subset of the fan base that probably already reeling from the Aaron Boone extension and now they get hit with some subset of the fanbase that probably already reeling from the Aaron

Boone extension and now they get hit with the end of the facial hair band. If the Yankees don't have a successful season, they will have plenty of ammunition, plenty of things to blame it on. The beards were too long. That's why we lost our way. We're not true Yankees anymore. We have fallen from the light. So yeah, we'll see. But it's funny that the Yankees thought that it was an advantage for their brand, I think, that it was like, oh, we're the special Yankees and we're clean cut. And, you know, we will maintain order with our players. And it evolved into certainly being the opposite of that, where it just contributed to the Yankees being more reviled and resented and potentially players not wanting to play there.

So yeah, it was time, as Steinbreder said, it was past time, but it's happened. The other change that seemingly is happening is that the Yankees and every other team, although let's be honest, mostly the Yankees, because Sunday night baseball was, I don't know, 40% Yankees. Maybe that's a little inflated, but not by much. But they will not be on ESPN anymore beyond this season unless there is some other deal worked out, which is still a possibility. But Major League Baseball and ESPN have been in business since 1990 and may not be in business beyond this year because the two had a broadcast contract, which was

what, seven years, I think. And there was a opt out, a mutual opt out possibility after this season with three years left on the deal at 550 million per. And both sides opted out. They mutually parted ways. And this seems like a case of that actually being true, that it's not just that one side wanted to move on and the other is saving face.

ESPN wanted to renegotiate, wanted to lower those rights fees. And MLB did not want to do that. And also MLB was not thrilled about the fact that baseball has not really been a priority for ESPN. It's kind of funny reading Rob Manfred's statement because how many times have you heard baseball fans complain about the lack of a baseball presence on ESPN?

And how it's just 24 seven football and also to some extent basketball. And baseball was such an afterthought. And that's essentially what Rob Manfred said in a memo that he sent to the league that MLB has not been pleased with the minimal coverage that MLB has received on ESPN's platforms over the past several years outside of the actual live game coverage. Manfred also kind of took a shot at ESPN and said, the past several years outside of the actual live game coverage. Manfred also kind of took a shot at ESPN and said, we do not think it's beneficial for us to accept a smaller deal to remain on a shrinking platform.

Yeah, I saw, I noticed that too, yeah. In order to best position MLB to optimize our rights going into our next deal cycle, we believe it is not prudent to devalue our rights with an existing partner, but rather to have our marquee regular season games, home run derby and wild card playoff round on a new broadcast and or streaming platform. To that end, we've been in conversation

with several interested parties around these rights over the past several months and expect to have at least two potential options for consideration over the next few weeks. So what do you think will be the outcome here? Will they find their way back to each other and renegotiate or will there just be other bidders and other suitors and we'll get MLB games on Prime or more games on Apple or Netflix or who knows what else, or is there some long-term play there with MLB's

desire to claw back as many rights as possible to put together their own package? Yeah, so I, this is very speculative on my part. I saw some panic is too strong, but concern about sort of what this meant from a revenue perspective for the league going forward. I'm skeptical that they would make this move if they didn't feel confident that they had other potential rights holders who could replicate the revenue that they have. Maybe that's optimistic on my part, but I do think that one of the areas I'm often loathe to hand it to Rob Manfred, but I do think one of the areas where he actually has been, I think he has a good handle

on things is on the broadcast side. I'm annoyed, like everyone else, that there's as much fracture within that market at the moment as there is, because I too don't want to have to tell my parents where they can find baseball games. But I think that his stated long-term vision is for there to be a reconsolidation of rights. Not only do they want to bring that stuff sort of more and more back under the MLB umbrella directly, but I think that when they are giving games to Apple, they're giving games to what other services have they? Do they give games to Roku? They have some on Peacock, right? Yeah, there's a Roku deal Yeah, my

Impression is that this is to some extent not only a short-term sort of revenue generator, but also an assessment being done on the part of the league about who good long-term broadcast partners are and that not all of these good long-term broadcast partners are and that not all of these avenues will end up being ones that have games on them on a permanent basis. So first of all, I wouldn't be surprised if they do get to a spot with ESPN where the deal is more to their liking and they kind of have some sort of reconciliation. He's not wrong. And I imagine it does genuinely rankle him that like baseball has been so strongly deprioritized on ESPN. And I don't say that to knock the good work that like all the people we know

who work for ESPN and cover baseball are doing. They obviously have great reporting standouts. And you know, Kylie does good work on the prospect side, but like, it is not what it was in terms of its focus. I suspect that his consternation around that will not get in the way of him doing a deal if they present one that is better than what they were, what the league was initially offered. So you might see that kind of fall by the wayside as a complaint. But there are other services that are very interested in having like a lot of sports inventory and I think are willing to pay for it as we have navigated talking about the Bali situation or what are they now? Fan, FanDuel.

Put a pin in FanDuel as a thought for a second. But, um, you know, as we have tried to understand the implications of the Bally bankruptcies and Diamond Sports and all of that, I think the thing that we have consistently seen is that baseball games do generate ratings. They generate interest, even for bad teams. Now, whether folks are going to be willing to pay sort of over and above their cable package just for a bad team's games, I think we're going to see that kind of play out over the next couple of years as these teams get their like little bespoke athletics package or whatever. But people like watching baseball. People want to have

baseball on. People want to have baseball on even when the baseball is bad. And so I do think that, uh, if you're a Netflix, if you're a Roku, if you're Peacock and want to extend and expand your, your current relationship with the league, like I, I am optimistic that there will be. Desire for those games and that the league will find sort of a lucrative way to do it. This is an area where I think they want to make money. His job for the owners is to make money. And so I think he's going to find a way to do that. It might result in a more fractured viewing experience.

I think that having games move away from ESPN, which particularly for older fans who still have linear cable, is just part of their cable package in all likelihood is not the best, despite the fact that I have not watched nearly as many Apple TV shows as you have. I have an Apple TV and I watch, it's easy for me to watch the Apple TV games, but I know people for whom that's annoying, you know? So that's a lot of words to say that I think that like, ultimately from a revenue perspective, this will probably be fine. I think that from a viewing perspective,

it will be annoying in the short term. But I think that the broader project that the League is engaged in is, as you noted, sort of reacquiring rights and also assessing the fit with different streaming platforms to see who will ultimately make the cut for them from a streaming partner perspective. My fear, and now I'm going to pull the pin out of Fandle and return to that thought, is that we will continue to see sportsbooks in that space as a broadcast partner because they have money to spend, even though they're not all profitable right now. But they have money to spend. They want the infiltration in the broadcast space of their gambling stuff.

And so that part of it does give me concern and pause because I am already so over the amount of sports betting nonsense that we see on broadcasts, broadcasts that aren't on Bali, right? Or Fandl or whatever, just a broadcast. And there was a fair amount of that on ESPN, don't get me wrong. Yeah, ESPN has its own branded sports book too. Uh-huh, yeah. Branded sports book with news personalities, advertising the sports book.

That's fine, I'm sure that's fine. I have some real thoughts about the conflicts over there. But, so that's the piece of this apart from the like having to get on the phone I have some real thoughts about the conflicts over there. So that's the piece of this apart from the having to get on the phone and tell people like here's where you find this and here's how you log in. I say that I have to do it very often, but my dad works in tech and he has to fix my s*** all the time. So actually I am the problem.

The children are the problem here, you know? It's the youth who is wrong and often like, why doesn't it work? And then Dad fixes it. So, yeah. ESPN may be a shrinking platform, but it's still bigger than other platforms. And it's hard for me to imagine unless this goes to Netflix

or something that you would not be sacrificing some audience or some ease of access here. And I know that ESPN is working on a direct to consumer product that's coming out later this year and there's ESPN Plus and everything. So there is still kind of a cache that comes with ESPN. And you're right, I imagine they are pretty comfortable in their backup plans, but wouldn't be great

if it were just more fracturing of the number of services one has to be able to access. And yeah, if there were more paywalling that happens, I mean, you're not going to get in the short term at least something like MLS has had with Apple where it's just the whole package is just exclusive. And that was good from a revenue standpoint, but hasn't been so great from an audience standpoint or from a publicity standpoint because all your stuff is locked up on one streaming service, then other networks don't really have any incentive to talk about you or

promote you. And sure, maybe ESPN wasn't doing a whole lot of promotion or talking about baseball as it was. It's true. You're not going to be seeing a whole lot of baseball highlights on sports center, not that sports center is as central to the fan experience as it used to be. We have social media. So highlights, it just doesn't matter quite as much, but it's more about like the, the debate shows the people yelling at each other shows there's always going to be some kind of controversy in football or basketball that's just dominating whatever is happening in baseball short of Shohei Otani scandals.

So look, maybe is that a self-fulfilling prophecy? Is it chicken or the egg? Is that just a baseball issue that manifests itself on ESPN? Is it ESPN fostering that, contributing, perpetuating that by not discussing baseball as if it's something that, you know, has a longer news cycle or that can be talked about in the offseason. I think it's a bit of both. I think ESPN is driving the conversation, but it's also following its audience's appetite, and baseball just doesn't quite have the same surrounding drama around the games, around the offseason, around the personalities that those other sports do.

And so maybe there's a little less fuel for the fire, right? But yeah, it's a far cry from how it used to be where there was just constant baseball coverage on supporting programs. And I know that a lot of people just don't really like the format of ESPN 798 baseball these days, where it's just kind of, the game is going on in the background, you know?

And I know there's been like the Michael K. Arod's side broadcasts that they had for a while, and just, you know, kind of the idea of the alternate broadcast, the manning cast ization of everything. But even on the flagship ESPN's NNN8 baseball, it often feels like you're listening to people hang out and talk about stuff, and also there's a game going on

that you'll talk about every now and then. If this means fewer on-field in-game player interviews, then that would be nice for me, but probably that ship has sailed. Anyway, I am curious to see where this goes and if they do work something out or what plan B is here, because yeah, they're not gonna take a haircut

as hopefully the Yankees won't be forced to do anymore on the broadcast stuff. And it's just all still so much in flux. And ESPN saying that things had changed since 2021 when they signed this deal, that the market had changed and that baseball should make adjustments accordingly and citing Apple paying 85 million a year for baseball rights, Roku paying 10 million for baseball rights, as Manfred correctly pointed out.

That's not apples to apples. Apple literally is getting one game a week or whatever it is. And it's, you know, both of these networks, it's like going up against other games that are being broadcast at the same time. It's not the same as Sunday Night Baseball, which is really the only truly exclusive baseball broadcast window. No competition from other games going on, plus some of the marquee events and playoff round, etc.

So I think he is right to draw a distinction there. And the ratings have been up. I mean, you'd think that baseball's hand would be stronger today than it was in 2021. Sunday night baseball ratings were up last year, the pitch clock has obviously helped and there's just, I think, a little more positive buzz about baseball generally than there was then. So conditions have changed. I mean that's probably less about baseball than it is about ESPN. Yeah about ESPN, about the continued cord cutting, about just the reshuffling of the broadcast landscape at large. Yeah and you know I get those ESPN PR emails and they love to tell you

how popular Sunday Night Baseball is. So it is kind of funny to see. But yeah, I would imagine baseball's position to be stronger now than it's been in quite a while. And I think, you know, that isn't to say that ESPN is like immune from broader market forces. They're also dealing with court cutting, right? Like I, I don't think that they're necessarily like trying to pull a fast one here. They probably are dealing with some economic realities, but also like the ratings are good to the point that you're like, I don't know, but ad rates on the internet suck. So maybe they suck in TV too. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing that bugs me is that it could contribute to a perception.

The undying baseball is dying narrative. I assume that some people will see this headline that these two are parting ways for the first time in 35 years potentially and will think, oh, another nail in the coffin of baseball that there's no interest in baseball anymore. ESPN didn't want to be in the baseball business where really it's mutual. And to be fair, ESPN didn't want to be in the baseball business at the same rate that they originally agreed to, but they have interest in baseball and a lot of people would have interest in baseball. There's a lot of inventory. There are a lot of baseball games. People need a stock and

supply and baseball has that in spades. And so I don't think this really reflects on, the death of baseball or the lack of, yes, I mean, not the national pastime in the way that it was, obviously that hasn't been the case for a long time, but I hope people will look beyond the headlines and not read this as another, oh, it's the death rattle, it's the death spiral of baseball circling the drain, ESPN wants out now.

And, you know, I should allow for the possibility that, like, while I think the general position of the league is strong and this inventory is desirable, that doesn't mean that, like, Rob Manfred's particular valuation of this deal is spot on. Maybe he's a little off. We should allow for that possibility. But I think in general, they're in good shape. And I think when you look at the way that ESPN has trended, not only in terms of what they, the sports that they emphasize, but like they have moved away in some instances from, you know, the panel shows and like around

the horns going away. There's not going to be around the horn anymore, which I'm bummed about, you know? And so I think that they are trying to shift a lot of their coverage to just being rights holders and airing games because people want to watch those and it's stickier and has a more consistent audience. At least this is my perception of it than, you know, whatever panel show, which isn't to say they don't have studio shows that they are clearly like really excited about, but they are whittling that inventory to a select few and it's not focused on baseball. It's Bet McAfee and it's Kelsey and yeah, they're not going to be talking that much

baseball. Here I want to like give credit where it's due. Like, you know, I think that their NFL show that Mina's on is fantastic. That show is great. I learn something about football every time I watch it. But you're right. There's that kind of panel show, which I think is something they are interested in, not only because it is good, but because it is about football.

And then, yeah, it's Pat McAfee for three hours. For what? Like, where are we? Yeah, or, you know, it's like our next president, apparently, Stephen A, when he weighs in on baseball, it's usually like to say something like, Shohei Otani can't be the face of baseball because of a language barrier or something. You know, it's not his number one sport, right? And it's really too bad because, you know, I said that we're not trying to like take

shots at the people we know who do work over there. I think they're baseball, the baseball people they still have are good, you know? And it's interesting too, because, you know, there's this schism around the big league product around major league baseball, not MLB, major league baseball. But then you look at the way that they've leaned into their college programming and like their college baseball and softball stuff is very robust, getting more robust every day. And I think just like fantastic, you know, there, you might have complaints about Sunday

night baseball and you know, I think that it kind of comes and goes for me how much that broadcast appeals to me. But like, if you want to see good baseball coverage on ESPN, go watch their college stuff. It's top notch, you know, particularly once they get into postseason play. So it's not like they don't have appetite for it. It's just that it tends to be rights focused, right? Like their broadcasts of college baseball are good. They do have college baseball studio stuff, but it's not all the time and you know, like their whip around show is so good. Anyway, I just think there's room here for, for there to be some sort of reconciliation because I think Manfred is right that like these are valuable rights and

people want to watch these games and they have been doing very well and doing better year over year post pandemic and lockout. But I also think that ESPN is probably dealing with some budget realities that are really different than they've been in prior years because they are also feeling the effects of court cutting. So it'll just be, I don't know man, it's gonna be interesting to see. I think you're right that like the interpretation of this should not be baseball is in a bad way. I don't think that that's right. I think it might be like stuff going on at ESPN, but yeah, anyway. Yeah, it'd be nice if MLB Network were more widely available so that that could be more of a replacement.

But you're a cable guy, right? You have a I'm not anymore. No, I have. I have. Yes, I was for stuck it out for a while. But a long time. Yeah. What is your we had YouTube TV for a while.

I don't have that active right now. And I found that generally I can find some solution on streaming for so many things, but with one of the many streaming services I subscribe to. But yeah, I got to get YouTube TV for the MLB playoffs, so yeah, you got to find a way. And yes, one would imagine that say Jeff Passon might not want to be at ESPN if ESPN's not in the baseball business. I mean, I don't know anything, but obviously like being on TV is part of the appeal for a prominent news breaker who's working with a sport. So if your employer no longer has an arrangement with that, then that's going to be a consideration.

So yeah, let's hope that the fine baseball staff that's still there is not kind of scattered to the winds if this does come to pass because yeah still there is not kind of scattered to the winds if this does come to pass because yeah, there are a lot of people who still do good work there. All right. Last thing I'll say, I was enjoying the Four Nations final on Thursday as so many people were. My loyalties were divided as a dual citizen and what with all the political aspects, elements that came to kind of overshadow

the game in some respects, but the game was very good. And I was just thinking about this because we got an email from listener Cesar, who wrote in about this and I talked on hang up and listen about Four Nations this week and kind of comped it to the WBC in the way that it felt so exciting and so refreshing and it really broke through. And our emailer said, I'm not an NHL fan or follower, but the Four Nations games seem to have made a broader sports relevancy impact recently. That reminds me of the thought I've had that MLB should move the WBC semi-finals and final to the All-Star break every four years. And he argued the All-Star break is a prime MLB opportunity at a broader sports relevancy outreach when there's no in-season competition from the NFL or NBA, yet the MLB All-Star

game itself is losing relevance like it is in all sports. The WBC tournament or a break for professionals for the Olympics are too long to have in-season during a 162 game MLB season. However, the WBC opening rounds can still be held in March every four years, could be held later after players have more buildup or made a bit longer to get the final four teams. But the two WBC semi-final games and the final should be held

at the All-Star break every four years instead of an actual All-Star game on that Tuesday, both semi-finalsinals and Wednesday the final. The break from March to July would allow for a media build-up. It would be a game that matters to the players and is more focused on the players themselves over the teams in the more regional way that MLB fandom has been trending for years. Also, by having the game mid-season, you could open the rosters for those games to players who may not want to participate in the March games.

While the mid-season games might carry some injury risk, you're only looking at a maximum of two games for players who may not want to participate in the March games. While the mid-season games might carry some injury risk, you're only looking at a maximum of two games for players. So it isn't as big a commitment for players or teams releasing players as the March games are. So the WBC final could over time become the biggest event MLB could promote every four years that could come closest to a Superbowl slash World Cup final in buildup and relevance to a broader sports viewership. What do you think of that idea of playing most of the tournament

between seasons in the preseason and then tabling it for a few months and then finishing it with the semifinals and finals in lieu of the standard All-Star break? I get the appeal of it. I do think that like guys want a break at the All-Star break, you know? And I know that a lot of really good players play in the All-Star break, you know, and I, I know that a lot of really good players play in the All-Star game or participate in the Derby. So it's not like everyone gets time off,

but I do think that there might be more resistance than there would initially seem to be just because, uh, you know, like they're like, I want to rest though. I'm going to rest though. So there's that piece of it. I do wonder how teams would think about the injury risk. Obviously there being injury risk doesn't preclude players' participation in March all the time. And maybe you're more comfortable with pitchers because they're fully built up.

And so you think that they're actually less likely to sprung because they're not still going through spring, but also maybe by the time you get to the WBC, some springs have sprung and then those guys aren't available or they, you know, guys are available, but because of other injuries on the roster, their teams might be more reluctant to let them participate. I don't know. I'm not necessarily opposed to it. I would be curious to hear from both players and team personnel about their perspective on that because I don't know that it would necessarily result in teams being more willing to have their folks participate. And I do think that there would be plenty of players

who are like, no, I'm gonna go to the lake for a couple of days and like not do anything, but be on a pontoon boat. So catch you next time. Or even if you're in the All-Star game, you're playing an inning or two, it's an exhibition that no one really cares about as opposed to WBC final,

which would be like playoff atmosphere. So yeah. And we get plenty of guys every year who are like, I'm sick and can't do the L star. I mean, a lot of them are genuinely hurt, but a lot of times they're like, I can't do it. And part of it is they're just like, I'm tired, man. And you're right.

It's like an inning. They're like, I don't want to go to wherever. And I want to, again, I want to be on the lake. And I think in the interest of fairness, you'd really need a roster freeze. Aside from injury replacements, you can't just have a bunch of people play in the qualifiers and all the lead ups and then a few other people parachute in. They're like, oh, well, if I only have to play one game, then I'll show up. Like, you know, yeah, then it would be completely different one game, then I'll show up. Yeah, that would be kind of lousy. Yeah, then it would be a completely different team. Like there'd be no continuity and yeah, I don't like that idea so much.

And although, yeah, I guess there'd be buildup and anticipation. I don't really like the idea of just taking a break for a few months, like right before the end of the tournament. That feels to me like it would actually hurt the momentum. That we would all just kind of forget about it or it just, it wouldn't feel like it was part of the same tournament. It's like, oh yeah, that thing back in March, that's, that's still technically happening. Like this is the continuation of that thing we were watching a few months ago and now we're in the thick of the

season and we're looking ahead to the stretch run and the playoffs, but also we still have to finish up that WBC thing that was happening there. Yeah, I don't really like that idea so much. The four nations worked mid-season because it's just four nations, right? Which was partly because of logistical issues, partly because Russia was banned from participating because Russia invaded Ukraine.

That is the way that it happens, not the other way around. But there was kind of a limited pool of participants there. And one of the strengths, I think, of the WBC is that it really is global, you know, unlike the World Series, which is not, I mean, it is in the sense that the participants in it are, but not the teams. But the WBC, it's nice that you at least have the potential for a Cinderella run and you have all these different countries represented. It does really highlight how global a game baseball is.

Now, I guess you could have a mini version of it where you took the real, you know, most likely contenders and you just limited it to like the U S and Japan and the Dominican and, you know, a couple others, maybe Venezuela or Korea or whatever. And you just kind of had like a smaller, more compact version of it that you could play at mid season feasibly without too long a break. I guess you gain something there. You also lose something there.

But I think the WBC, it works okay as it is. I would just like it to be more frequent. I just think that we need more WBC and maybe there's diminishing returns and the fact that it's every three years or it's going back to four years. I mean, it's, it's next year, 2026, and then it's 2029, I think after that. But then I think the plan is, is supposedly for it just to go back to being every four years. It's been disrupted because of the pandemic and other things, but I think it should be

more frequent and maybe it would lose a little luster if it were every year, but Four Nations is, is planned to be alternating years. It's every other year and hockey has the World Cup of Hockey and the Olympics. And so there's really not gonna be a year now without high level hockey competition involving NHL players, like best of best kind of format. And there was just so much excitement about the WBC. And then to take a few years off, it feels like,

not that people aren't gonna be excited about it next spring, I will be, but three or four years between WBC is just, it feels like too long, especially if you're not having other prominent international baseball competitions with MLB players participating. So if there's any lesson to be learned from Four Nations, I think it's, you know, let's make this happen more often. I know that's complicated to do, but I think it's worthwhile. Yeah. Let's do it more often.

Let's leave Canada alone and go from there. Yeah. All right. We'll let us go from here by taking a quick break and then returning with Kennedy Landry to talk about the Texas Rangers followed by John Peratto on the Pirates. I wanna hear about how the name RBI is here Tell me about some prospect I should know about Effect, effect, effect of the world All right. We are ready to talk about the no longer reigning champion, Texas Rangers with Kennedy Landry, who covers the Rangers for MLB.com.

Kennedy, welcome back. Hello from Surprise, Arizona guys. I was actually going to mention surprises in the setup to my first question. Cause 2023 was about as pleasant a surprise as a team can have and 2024 was kind of the opposite of that. So maybe before we talk about 2025, we can talk about what went wrong last year. Why did the Rangers regress that hard? I think it's just the Bruce Bochy MO.

That's what I've been telling everybody. That's what I've been telling everybody That's what he does He's never he's never made the postseason after going to the World Series going back to 1998 99 with the Padres So this is just what Bruce Bochy does. Yeah, but your magic maybe for the Rangers Yeah, but yeah, yeah, they had a lot of lot of injuries a lot of regression kind of across the board you look at They had those three veterans starting pitchers on the injured list to begin the season with Jacob DeGraw, Max Scherzer and Tyler Malley. The kind of general sentiment was like, hey, if they can tread water until those guys get back, I think I said it on this podcast last year, you know, they have

a chance to kind of get back to the postseason and make magic happen. And that really didn't happen. They tread it water for a little bit there, kind of up till May until things kind of fell apart. And it was a handful of injuries, Evan Carter, Josh Young getting hit with a pitch on his hand in the fourth, fifth game of the season. And then regression pretty much across the board from Marcus Simeon, who's as steady as a guy as you can find, Jonah Hyne behind the plate, Dois Garcia in the outfield. It was just a lot of things went badly for the Rangers. Even Corey Seeger got off to a slow start and Corey Seeger is the one guy

you can typically count on in this lineup. So there were a lot of things that didn't go well and almost nothing really went well when you look at it. They still have like a tremendous amount of talent in that lineup. You mentioned some of the guys who were hurt or underperformed. Maybe we can kind of go through them

and talk about what your expectations are for them in 2025, because you have these solid veterans in Simeon and Seeger. And then you have exciting young guys like Wyatt Langford and Evan Carter. You mentioned Garcia's weird bad year. So maybe let's start with Carter, because he really burst onto the scene in that World Series year. And he went from a 182 WRC plus in very limited action to an 80 WRC plus last year. How much of that was just the injury? How much of it do you think is some, you know, probably expected regression? What do you think we're going to get from him in 2025? Yeah, I think a lot of that really does point to the injury.

You don't want to make excuses, and I don't think Evan Carter wants to make excuses for himself either. If you look at when he first went on the entry list early in May with the back injury, it was affecting him a lot. Even if you look at how his swing looked late in 2023 versus early in 2024, it was really just affecting every part of him from his running to his stance to everything. And he said, he spent so many hours in the cage

with Donnie Ecker and Tim Hyres, the hitting coaches, just trying to get things back to where they were. And his body just wouldn't let him do that. And he's a young kid, he's 22, back injuries are scary. And he, as a young kid't probably didn't, you know, let the the trainers and the coaches know how badly he was hurting early on in the season. So by the time he eventually was shut down, especially, you know, they attempted multiple ramped up ramp ups that never really worked out his favor. And they eventually shut him down for good in August. And

we've seen what a healthy Evan Carter looks like and what he can do on the biggest stages in baseball. He said he's healthy, but he hasn't exactly disclosed what the diagnosis was for his back, if that makes any sense. So we don't really know much about what has gone on behind the scenes there, but I think if he's healthy, we've seen what he can do,

and that can do wonders for this Rangers lineup. It lengthens it, adds a little bit of speed, has some good defense in the outfield. So many things that he brings to this lineup if he's healthy. And I think he was never really healthy last year. Maybe we can look now to Wyatt Langford, who also dealt with injury last year, also had he had a fine, he had a fine rookie campaign, but perhaps wasn't as incandescent as people were hoping he would be a 110 WRC plus. So how is Langford feeling in camp now? What do you expect from him this season? Well, uh, breaking news for this podcast that happened about 30 minutes ago is that they're going to shut them down for about a week with an oblique strain. A mild oblique strain that

Bruce Bochy just let us know before I hopped on this podcast. But he had a hamstring strain last year that kept him out for about, I think, three weeks at the end of May into early June. But after he came back from that hamstring strain, he looked like the player that the Rangers expected him to be. He obviously got off to a slow start. I don't think he hit a home run until mid-May, and even at that it was inside the Parker. He really looked phenomenal after that. He hit for the cycle. He had a walk-off grand slam against the Yankees. He was such an exciting player to watch.

I think some of the fan graphs measurements don't really love him, especially defensively. The Rangers raved about him all year long. Bruce Bochy, Chris Young in the front office, a lot of guys. Like I said, he looked exactly like the player the Rangers expected from him after he came back from that hamstring strain, even if he didn't even finish top five and rookie of the year voting. I think the Rangers were happy with the production they got from him and hopefully in a week when he comes back from being shut down from baseball

activities, he can show that this spring and, you know, will more than likely be starting in left field come opening day. And then we should talk about Josh Young, who is not quite as young as the guy that we just talked about, but he only played 46 games for the Rangers last year and was about league average with the bat in those games. So how is his health? What's his outlook for 2025?

We look at all of the injuries that the Rangers had last year and I think maybe Josh Young was the biggest and most impactful. He was electric in the first four games he played before getting hit with that pitch in Tampa the first week of the season. It seemed to be the season that this guy would take off. He's had a lot of injuries through his professional career pretty much. I think this is his first spring training where he didn't get hurt within the first week. So already we're starting off better than we have the last few years. And a lot of his injuries haven't even, you know, you don't like to, Bochi said this the other day, you know, we don't want to label him injury prone. It's not like there's a chronic knee issue or chronic shoulder issue. It's been a like

few different things and, you know, getting hit with multiple pitches that break bones. His thumb a couple years ago that kept him out after his All-Star season in 23. You know, the hand last year, a lot of different things that have kind of affected him that, you know, he looks really healthy right now. I think he's starting at third base today in the Cactus League opener. Josh Young was kind of the draft pick that got the Rangers, you know, out of the rebuild. You know, this was the guy that was supposed to be the third baseman of the future a few years ago, and he's been that when healthy. He just hasn't been healthy all that often. And we saw that he was again an all star in 2023.

He was really a huge part of that electric offense that led the Rangers to the World Series. So that's gonna be a big guy if they can keep him healthy. And you can say this about so many guys in this lineup, obviously, considering all the injuries they've had the last few years. But I think Josh Young may be the most important one. And I know that's weird to say in a lineup with Corey Seeger and Adois Garcia and all these other guys, but I think he, both on and off the field, is really important to this Rangers Clubhouse.

05.00 Yeah. I'm trying to remember if it was 2022 that he had the injury that hit the transom the day our top 100 won. Yes, yes. Yeah, he's like, oh, he's more upset about it than I am, but I was pretty annoyed. You mentioned Garcia. I know that you've done some reporting on his swing being reworked. What went wrong for him last year and what is he trying to do to course correct for this year?

You know, when we talked to him the other day, he said it's just a lot simpler, his swing and his stance. He was really late on fastballs. He was missing in all of the pitches that he normally crushes last year. There were so many things, especially, I think, obviously we look at the offense and we don't really think about his defense unless the offense is regressing him. His defense also kind of regressed last year. I think he was slower, the arm strength was down, the bad speed on the offensive end, so many things that I think, you know, he ended 23.

If you guys remember, he was scratched from the game four of the World Series with an oblique strain. So, you know, they slow played him last year during spring training. He spent most of the last offseason rehabbing that oblique strain. So I sound like a broken record at this point. I don't know if he was ever, you know, fully 100% last year. It felt like he was just slow. And, you know, he had a knee thing that they said the Rangers and Adults have both claimed did not affect him until the final weeks of the season. But, you know, having watched him all every day, it just felt like he was never, you know, going at full speed, full strength throughout the entire

year. So I think in addition to, you know, tweaking his swing, making a lot of less wiggles, this isn't a video podcast, I started doing something. But all of those things on top of just him looking and being healthy, he looks a little slimmer, he's still got the big L-bomby arms, obviously, he's a very large man. Obviously, he's the most expressive guy on this team, with the bat flips and the flexing and all of those things. And I think we didn't see a lot of that last year because he wasn't able to fully put it together. And I think he looks like he's ready to regain his 2023 form right now. Continuing our tour of underperforming players from last year. I really can't, if you had

asked me how things could go wrong for the Rangers, I would have said, oh, maybe just all the pitchers are heard and they don't come back. But I just did not have below average offense really on my radar, but that's what happened. And Jonah Haim was another driver of that. So what went so south for him? Kyle Higashioka is here now. Does that represent some anxiety about Heim bouncing back or is this just your standard timeshare? Maybe a little bit of both.

I wouldn't say anxiety about Heim bouncing back, but I think he carried so much of the weight in 23 and 24. In 2023, at least Mitch Garver, the DH in the World Series, caught a solid number of games and he was also a solid offensive force for the Rangers as well. When you look at 2023, Jonaheim caught so many games last year and a lot of that had to do with the fact that Andrew Kisner, I think when the Rangers eventually DF8 him, was hitting 124. So the Rangers and Bruce Boche just really never

felt like they could sit Jonah Heim. And you know, he's a he's really large for a catcher. Again, he was just shouldering so much weight that I think he never really got days off never really got a chance for his body to recover. Again, these guys don't make excuses. And I don't think Jonah's going to be like, Yeah, I caught too many games. That's what catchers want to do. They want to handle the pitching staffs and be able to contribute on both sides of the field. But I do think when you catch 130 some odd games in back to back years in every game of the postseason through a World Series run that does wear on a body again, especially

for a guy as big as Jonah. So I think bringing in Kyle Higashioka, who is a solid offensive presence, a good veteran catcher to help handle the pitching staff, all of these things really contribute to how they want to deploy the catching core and be able to give Jonah off days, give Jonah DH days and still not lose too much offensive production behind the plate like they did last year. Maybe he just needs to grow his hair back out. That's what I've been saying.

Samson situation. Well, we can continue with the slightly underperforming hitters, but then we will get to a couple of the new additions in this lineup because this is a place where they've actually added some guys. So what was going on with Semian last year and do you think that this is a one season blip or are we starting to see him move into his decline phase? I brought this up to Marcus Simeon. I don't know if I'm the only one that notices it, but he has his own Bruce Bochy every other year thing going for him. All of his top three MVP finishes came in odd numbered years in 19, 21, and 23. So,

MVP finishes came in odd numbered years in 1921 and 23. So I think we're just, that's the MO. That's what we're going for again. You know, he was really good for the first, you know, six weeks of the season, I think, if you look at that. And again, he's not gonna say he's a guy who likes to come up and post up every day. He had, I think, three straight seasons of playing 160 or more games.

I think the only player that's played more games than him in the last five years is Freddie Freeman. So he's not going to say, oh, I was tired. Oh, it was this. Oh, I was that. But I do think it kind of following the postseason, I think that the short off season maybe affected them, these guys more than any of them expected. Even a guy like Marcus Simeon, who's the consummate professional. And even looking

at back at kind of some things that happened last year, there was a collision in right field that happened in late May. And then Marcus went on an O for 25, I think, after that. And they said, no, he's fine. He's not concussed, all of these things. And I don't think he was concussed. But I think it's hard not to look at that and say, like, this is the turning point of where Marcus kind of started struggling. I mean and he never really righted the ship after that either I think. He had a few stretches, he got a few off days when Boach, he was like hey I'm gonna I'm making you take a day off and Marcus never wants to take a day off and you know Boach has to use his Hall of Fame clout sometimes and that mostly comes

when telling Marcus Simeon to take a day off. So I think when you look at this lineup, Marcus Simeon is the least of my worries when you think about how guys are going to bounce back or post up every day and think, you know, he's the captain of this team. It's not officially, but everybody says it, everybody knows it. And I don't think it's going to be any issue for Marcus Simeon to get back to the guy that, you know, the Rangers need him to be. Well, Meg mentioned a new addition. I guess we should talk about first base, Nathaniel Lowe out, Jake Berger in.

So what motivated those deals and what are they looking for from Berger? Yeah, I think when you look at why or how the Rangers offense struggled last year, it came to slugging and OPS and how those numbers were way down. That happened across the board, but Nathaniel Lowe was silver slugger a few years ago in 22 when the Rangers lost 90 games. When he was at his best, he was hitting for both average and power. Over the last couple of years, that power kind of declined and that prompted the burger trade where the Rangers sent some prospects over to Miami and got Burger in return.

Then it had a few weeks, so thinking, oh, is Burger going to be the DH? Is Nate going to be the DH? How is this going to work? Then Nathaniel Lowe gets sent off to Washington a few weeks later. So I think Jake Berger obviously has a lot of power in that bat. He hasn't played a lot of first base, so he's been out early almost every day working with the Corey Ragsdale first base coach and infield coach, just trying to get acclimated to the position. But Jake Berger obviously is a big middle of the order bat that the Rangers really could have used last year.

They had a lot of missed opportunities just in terms of, again, slugging and homers and just putting the ball over the wall. This is a guy that crushes fastballs, which is also something that the Rangers struggled with last year. It provides a lot more of what the Rangers were really missing when you factor in both the regression and the injuries. CB The other new addition is Jock Peterson. So how do they envision using him? Will he be solely a DH? Will he play the field at all? And will he be platooned at all? Or are they looking at him as

more of an everyday guy? BT You know, Jock's going to get the majority of his playing time at DH, but he has taken no reps in the outfield. I don't believe the Rangers really intend on using him in the outfield at all unless something goes catastrophically wrong with injuries. But he's been taking all the reps at first base along with Jake Berger. Berger's going to get the lion's share of the reps there, but they'll rotate them in and out. Obviously, again, Jock is a guy that crushes fastballs, which is something the Rangers

struggled with last year. And he also, the Rangers are a group of very professional men. They are great to work with, but they're often a little bit boring. And Jock Peterson is anything but boring. So on top of what he's going to provide to them on the field, I think that goes unsaid. The numbers speak for themselves. But I think he's going to bring a bit of bring a little bit of like spunk and energy and everything that Cory Seeger isn't into this clubhouse. Cory Seeger spoke, obviously they came up in the Dodger system together.

Cory spoke very highly of Jock Peterson and the kind of guy he is, the kind of teammate he is, and the kind of player, again, the numbers speak for themselves. So I think it's going to be really fun as a reporter to cover a guy like Jock Peterson, and I think the Rangers are going to get a lot out of him offensively. Well, we can move over to the pitching side of things now. And I hesitate to ask how Jacob deGrom is because I don't want to jinx anything. Obviously, you noted the plan last year didn't go quite to plan, but we did see de Grahm at the end of the year. He was wonderful as always, but he only threw 10 innings.

Where is he in sort of his throwing program and how much do you actually think we will see de Grahm this season? Well, yes, knock on wood. As of right now, we talked to Jacob de Grahm earlier today. He was feeling great. He's thrown, I think, two bullpens since camp opened. He threw another one when he arrived in surprise before all of us did. He looks great. I mean, I was on the radio in Dallas yesterday and I was like, I think we've only been around Jacob deGrom for about two and a half years, but I think this is the most I've ever seen him smile.

Like, he just looked really happy to be like taking PFPs. Injuries are always going to be a part of, you know, Jacob deGrom at this point. I think everybody's going to bring it up. We all know the history, you know, to Tommy Johns, all of these different various injuries when he was with the Mets. And but Jacob deGrom obviously is the best pitcher in the world when he's healthy. It goes unsaid just how much the Rangers need him to be healthy. But even you look at 2023, Jacob deGrom only made six starts. The

Rangers won all six of Jacob deGrom's starts. And that was the difference between making the postseason and not that year when there was a tiebreaker between the three ALS teams. So Jacob deGrom, he looks good. He looks happy and healthy, and that's all you can hope for. And I think, you know, they're not going to come out and expect him to throw, you know, 200 innings. He hasn't thrown more than 150, I think, since 2019. But as of now, everything is set and he is ready to go for opening day. And hopefully nothing happens by the time this podcast drops.

And I assume that he has not learned a lesson from the injuries and thought, I'm going to take something off. I'm just going to see if I can be effective throwing 97. Instead of, he's just airing it out, I assume as usual, just, hey, new, new Lee Sun ligament, right? I think Jacob deGrom, he's just, everything comes out easy for him. So whether he tries or not, it's coming out 99 because that's who he is. Yeah. So if he encounters injuries at some point this season,

and we certainly hope that he doesn't, it would be really incredible to get a full healthy season of great deGrom still. But behind him, if Aldi's back, there's been buzz about John Grey as a potential reliever slash closer, so we could talk about that, but Andrew Heaney, who has been on this team,

he's now on the Pirates, the team we're talking about next on this episode. I love Heen Dog. Yeah, and Kumar Rocker is somewhere in the mix, as well as Mallie and Bradford. And really I'm as intrigued by what DeGrom does and by what Rocker does this season as I am by any pitcher in the game. And then there's Leiter, of course, right? So how do you see the five actually shaking out, breaking camp, just heading into opening day, assuming health, and then how might that evolve

over the course of the season due to injuries under performance, etc? Yeah, I think looking at who could be in the rotation come opening day, it is worth mentioning that of those seven guys, Jack Leiter is the only one who has not spent time on the injured list in the last two years. When you think about the starting rotation and how it evolves over a season, I mean, this goes for every team, not just the Rangers, but obviously you need more than five starting pitchers to get through a year. DeGrom, Valdi, Mallee, those guys are kind of, I would say, sharpied at least to start the season.

When you look at kind of Gray and Bradford, and Bradford has been a swing man, especially in 2023, both in the regular season and the post season during his rookie year. John Gray, I think both Bruce Bochy, Mike Maddox, and John Gray have said he's a starting pitcher as of now. Come opening day, I expect John Gray to be in the rotation. How long that lasts is yet to be seen, but they're obviously building him up as a starter right now. And I think especially when you

look at the depth and again, the injuries that this rotation has taken hits with over the last two years, you can't really afford to turn a guy who can eat a lot of innings for you into a reliever in spring training, in my not so professional opinion, I guess. But it's worth noting that John Gray has been pretty electric as a reliever in a very small sample size. He came out of the bullpen during the ALCS and the World Series in 2023. He had a pair of, I think, three appearances last year, just times coming off the injured list just to get him reacclimated to things. I think sub 2 ERA in those instances, he's been again,

electric. So I think that is on everybody's radar at least, but it is not in the plans for now. And Cody Bradford kind of broke out last year, you know, when he also spent time on the injured list with a back rib thing that was kind of nagging. They couldn't really figure out what was wrong for a bit there. But when he was healthy, he was the most consistent starter the Rangers had. He had one kind of blow up relief appearance in his return from the injured list, but he was just, you know, six innings run, one run, seven innings, two runs, like five shut out. Like every time out, I was like, I don't know who this guy is but he looks phenomenal. Obviously Cody Bradford he was a very good pitcher in college, the Rangers picked him

high, he was top 30 prospect all of these things but he looked like the best homegrown pitcher the Rangers have seen in a while last year. So I think it's really hard to picture Cody Bradford not being in the rotation and not being on this pitching staff in opening day which the Vandy boys could complicate things obviously with some good performances this spring, but both of them kind of had different struggles. Obviously, Kumar with injury with the Mets not signing him and then Tommy John last year or in 23 going into rehabbing that last year and Jack with various performance know, he's had really high highs. He was the PCL pitcher of the year last year and, you know, some lows with, you know,

struggles in double A and early in triple A. So and he did also struggle a bit after making his big league debut last year, but the Rangers gave him a lot of leash, especially once they were out of the postseason picture to kind of figure things out. So I think the two of them obviouslyseason picture to kind of figure things out. So I think the two of them obviously are in the Rangers' plans this season. Again, you're going to need more than five starting pitchers to get through a year. And I think it's going to be very interesting to see how much they kind of push the issue.

Kumar obviously pushed the issue last year. He sped, like, speed run through the miners just to get to the big leagues in September just, you know, right off of Tommy John. I think the Rangers and Chris Young especially, as mentioned multiple times, these guys are in their plans now and in the future. It'll be interesting to see how they figure in in the coming months. Kaitlin Luna Sandoval Have you noticed a change in how they are approaching pitching development as an organization? We talked about this a little bit with Eric Long and Hagen

when the Top 100 came out. He looked at a guy like Alejandro Rosario down in AA and it seemed obvious to him that the Rangers had made significant changes with Rosario for the better, right, that he had taken a real step forward. Some of that is Miami not being particularly good at pitching, Dev Dev maybe, but it seemed like Texas really helped Rosario improve. Have you noticed a change in their

approach to pitching Dev or is this just they're starting to see success with some of these guys? I think it's a little bit of both. I think there has been a change in just how they approach these guys, especially coming out of the draft. And most of them don't really pitch that summer out of the draft and just kind of getting them acclimated to the system, getting them in Arizona in the pitching lab and all of these things. Rosario is a very interesting case in how he,

again, looks like a totally different pitcher from his time in Miami. I talked to him at a minor league pitching camp a couple of months ago in Arlington. And he was like, look, they told me to throw my best pitchers in that, then I did. And oh my God, it worked, kind of. That'slington. And he was like, look, they told me to throw my best pitchers and then I did. And oh my God, it worked. Kind of that's kind of what he said, which was, which was fun.

It was funny because like, wow, throw your best pitchers and don't throw the ones that kind of suck. Like that's a novel idea. I asked Chris Young about this at the end of last season, just kind of at what point can the narrative around the Rangers pitching development change? And Chris Young was honest and he said, you know, not quite yet. Obviously, Jack and Kumar have come up and made some good strides and Cody Bradford, like I said, has really turned himself into a really good starter. And even Cole Regan's, the Rangers traded him away, he's become an ace with the Royals.

But I think it's gonna take some time for the narrative around the organization to change, just in terms of getting these guys up. They have to, getting to the big leagues is one thing, but staying there is a totally another one. And I think over the coming years, how things play out with Rosario and Emiliano Teotau or Jose Corniel, a lot of these other young pitching prospects coming up and even the

Vandy boys, like I said, it'll be very interesting to see how they come up and contribute in what the outside narrative does to change about the Rangers. We should talk about the rebuilt bullpen. A lot of new faces here. We got Jacob Webb, Chris Martin, one of the Hobies, Hobie Milner, Robert Garcia, Sharme Armstrong, my minor league free agent draftee Luis Corvello. So tell us about this group. This has obviously been a bit of a weakness at times for the Rangers. So are they confident that they have cracked it? I think they had a lot of innings to fill. I mean, you lost Kirby Yates, who was an all-star

for them last year, David Robertson, who was a really good setup guy, even Jose LeClerc, who was a postseason hero a couple years ago, a homegrown reliever for the Rangers. There was a lot of innings they had to fill fill and they filled all eight spots externally. Bochi has said there's no defined roles. They're probably aren't going to start with really any defined roles. But I would be shocked if a guy like Chris Martin or Luke Jackson, who was a really good reliever for the Braves a couple years ago, doesn't. Those two guys I think will get the first shot at closing and everything else will fill

it out. In between, Dane Dunning likely becomes a long man in the bullpen with additional rotation depth if you need a spot start or something like that. But I walked in on the first day of pitchers and catchers recording and I was like, I don't know who any of these guys are. We just have so many relievers, even some non-roster relievers where you're just like, oh my God, I have to learn a whole new pitching staff and I'm supposed to know everything. I'm the beat reporter. So I think it'll be really interesting. Obviously, the Rangers had to trade for some

relievers in 23 going through that carried them to the postseason. Last year, they signed a couple of veterans who really were very good on a team that did not make the postseason. So they're hoping to kind of combine the two and create a good bullpen. And I think it's a very interesting collection of guys that I think can surprise some people this year. Kaitlin Luna Are there other guys floating around, sort of the high minors, either on the position player side or the pitching side who you expect we might see this year if there's injuries under performance. Yeah, I love Mark Church. He's a guy I've mentioned many times and he's a reliever.

He was a position player in high school and his friend bet him that he couldn't touch 90 on the radar gun. And then he did And then he just became a pitcher in his junior season of high school. He's a guy, I think he made his MLB debut in the last week of the season last year, I think with one relief appearance in Anaheim. And I think he could be a guy that can come up and be a really good reliever for the Rangers. And I think another position player, a guy like Dustin Harris corner corner outfielder can DH Had had a 2020 season in the minors a couple years ago Puts together really good at bats has a lot of power a lot of speed for such a large body

And he could also contribute it, you know additional depth in the outfielder at DH There's so many infielders on this team that like it feels like they never stop You know, I don't think Sebastian Walcott is going to make his MLB debut this year. Big Bahamian shortstop, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention how excited the Rangers are about him in his first big league camp this year. He has a locker right next to Marcus Simeon. He's been having a good time with the big leaguers. He's not even 19 yet, but he's in AA. And I know the Rangers are really excited about him

and a lot of prospect people have him ranked pretty high. So he's gonna be an exciting guy to watch. He was fourth on our top 100. Yeah, and he's a really smart kid. He is really articulate for somebody so young over these next few years. It's gonna be really exciting to see him kind of get himself to the big leagues. And we should talk about where people will be seeing that, the Rangers Sports Network. There is a new RSN. The Rangers have gone solo. They've formed their

own thing here. So tell us how this came together amid all of the broadcast uncertainty facing the game and sports in general, amid the cable bubble bundle bursting, why did they decide to go this way and what will that mean for fans? Yeah, I think the the ballet situation is well documented. And that was nationwide. A lot of teams had to deal with that. And a lot of teams had to just figure out what to do, like you said, with the broadcast uncertainty.

And I think the Rangers felt like this was a good financial decision for the organization. It will be able to build up some funds on the back end, things that will help in the future. But for fans, I think genuinely, I think this is a great deal. And that's not even me being like a team shill or something, but you can get it on victory plus the streaming app. It's I think a hundred dollars for the entire season Which sounds like a great deal to me

I think a lot of you know The the Dallas Stars the NHL team in Dallas also uses victory plus their games were free this year So I think a lot of fans were like, why do I have to pay for Rangers games and not Stars games? But again, a hundred games for a hundred dollars for all 162 games and a handful of spring training games. I think that's a pretty good deal. And then obviously we have a they have a handful of over the air games on, you know, CW 33 every leave the channel channel is in DFW. And also just the RSN is going to be on, you know, depending on your cable provider, I think Dish, DirecTV, and a handful of others. I don't have it off the top of my head. Not YouTube TV. I am a YouTube TV subscriber. I do know that. But I think so many fans are going to be able to watch the Rangers this year that haven't over the last few years

as the ballet situation got more and more murky. And I think this is without a doubt good for fans of baseball in the DFW area and in the greater, you know, market just in terms of Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, we'll also be able to watch too. So I know I sound like an infomercial right now, but I think this is great. So the Rangers, Mariners and Astros are separated by less than a projected win in our playoff odds. We do have the Rangers at the top ever so slightly, but I'm curious sort of how the team sees itself relative to those other clubs. I guess we can throw the Athletics in there, although they are more than 10 games back of that trio. How do they see themselves relative to the rest of their AL West competition? And do you think that they're a team that would,

assuming they're in a competitive position come the deadline, be willing to make moves to try to push ahead and win the division? Yeah, I think Jock Peterson caused quite a stir at his introductory press conference the day after Christmas when he said, the Astros had a nice little run, but their time's over. It's our turn now.

So I think that's the general sentiment kind of going around this team, not blatantly calling out the Astros quite like that. But I think this team is very confident in where they are right now and that they will bounce back from the struggles they had last year. I personally, I said this before that I think as a person who went to LSU, I kind of view the Astros at this point as the kind of Alabama. So this, you know, they're going to win the division every year until they don't. And I kind of have, and I have not, you know, been wrong in that these last few years, even when the

Rangers won the World Series, the Astros did win the division that year, sending the Rangers to the wild card. But, but that's not the sentiment that's going through this clubhouse. They are very confident in themselves and this team and in Bruce Bochy that they'll be able to bounce back and get back to the 2023 form. In terms of the deadline, I think Chris Young has shown that he is definitely willing to make trades to make this team better. He did that in 2023. Obviously we said traded Cole Regans for Worldish Chapman. Obviously you don't love to trade a would-be ace, but Worldish Chapman was a big part of their World Series run.

Even trading Nathaniel Lowe, trading for Jake Berger. These were obviously off season moves, but he has again shown that he is willing to part with players and prospects and all of these things to make the big league club better. And I don't think that will change going into 2025. Well, that leads us to our last question, which is what would constitute success for this team this season? How big does the bounce back have to be? How should Rangers fans and the Rangers organization gauge whether this season was a success?

I mean, I don't want to say it's World Series or BUS, but you know, that's kind of what you hope for. Especially again, Bruce Bochy. This is what he does. He wins World Series. Did you guys know he has a career win percentage under 500? Because I didn't. That was quite fascinating for a guy with so many World Series. But yeah, I don't want to say World Series or Bust, but I think getting to the postseason would be an accomplishment. I don't think that would be, you know, that's not the biggest goal. I think the goal for this team and this organization is to win as many World Series as possible with Bruce Bochy at the helm.

And that's how they'll go into the season. All right, well, we will follow that season by reading Kennedy's work at MLB.com as can you all. Thank you, Kennedy, for coming back on. Yes, absolutely. Thank y'all for having me. And with that, we are halfway through the season preview series. After one more quick break, we'll push past the halfway point with John

Pirato, who covers the Pirates for Pittsburgh baseball now. It's a three series pitching in pure poetry That's why I love baseball Effectively wild Effectively wild Effectively wild Baseball podcast Alright, we are back and ready to talk about the Pittsburgh Pirates with an old colleague of mine from baseball prospectus who has been on the beat covering the Pirates for many a year and is with us now, John Perato.

John, welcome. Hi, Ben. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Good to hear your voice. How was Florida? It was good. It was very hot early in the year.

It was 91 the day I left. And it's funny, I went to Arizona and it was 58 the first day I got there. So it was quite a contrast, but very warm for sure, which I'm not complaining because it's 19 here in Pittsburgh. Yeah. I know the feeling up here, except that I haven't been to Florida. So I don't know that feeling. I mean, not this month at least.

So we're talking to you just after the pirates made a signing, which is exciting and somewhat rare for the pirates. And they did it on the eve of our preview podcast, which was nice. Now even after that, we can't exactly say that the Pirates splurged this off season. So we will talk about Andrew Heaney, but maybe we can just talk about the off season as a whole and the frustration that Pirates fans may be feeling given all the years of losing, but also the lack of spending and the foundation of the roster that is so cheap and potentially so good. So, probably doesn't come as a great surprise to anyone who's been following the Pirates, but does it surprise you at all? Do you think that they've made an effort to get someone they didn't get. Is this just the same old, same old? Is there any hope that this could change? You know, I think the fans

had high hopes going into the winner because, you know, Paul Skeens came up and was even better than the great expectations that were placed on him when he came to the big leagues. He had a tremendous year, started the All-Star game, won Rookie of the Year, was third in the NL, saw Young voting, and also Jared Jones kind of got overlooked, but also showed a lot of promise for a 22-year-old right-hander. And I think what the Pirates, a lot of fans thought, especially since these pitchers aren't costing a whole lot of money now, that they would go spend and surround their young starters

with some more talent in the lineup and in the bullpen because they were 25th in the majors and run scored last year and 28th in bullpen ERA. And they did a whole lot of nothing until here since spring training started. They signed Tommy Pham, which I don't know how much that moves makes their offense that much better. And now they did sign Andrew Heaney, who I do think could help them as either a depth starter or a swingman or a long man out of the bullpen.

But yeah, on the whole, Ben, a lot of disappointment. The Pirates have kept saying, when it's time to win, we'll spend some money. And it seems to the fans here, they have an ace pitcher, possibly the best pitcher in baseball already after 23 starts, and they've really done very little to help their club and take advantage of that. And it doesn't help that some of the additions they made on the trade market are going to be out of commission for a little while. What is the latest on Spencer Horwitz and his wrist? Yeah, that's a confusing situation, Meg. They announced it as a wrist surgery, but when

I asked Horwitz the first day of camp, he pointed to the area between his index finger and his thumb and indicated to me that it was more thumb surgery or hand surgery than wrist surgery. So I don't even know if the pirates know what they operated on or not. Which will be typical buckos, but anyway, I digress. But yeah, they traded for Spencer Horowitz at the winter meetings, got him from Toronto through Cleveland in a three-team trade. And this is a guy, limited big league experience, only 425 plate appearances in Toronto over the last two years.

But he has a 355 lifetime on base percentage. And for a team that's perennially at the bottom of the pack in the big leagues and on base percentage, I mean, this was definitely an upgrade. Their OBP was 301 last season so you had a guy gets on base at a 35% clip that was really going to help and it now it looks I would think there's pretty much no chance that he'd be completely healthy when the season opens. Probably in a best-case

scenario they get him back sometime in late April, maybe early May. But you know how hand injuries are for hitters? A lot of times it takes quite a while to get their full strength back when they have a hand or a wrist or thumb surgery like that. So I don't know if they're going to get the best version of Spencer Horowitz this year, maybe not until the All-Star break, or maybe really not at all. Whether that works out remains to be seen. If FAM is your big healthy addition and you don't know what you're going to get out of

Horowitz or when, then you have to hope that some of the holdovers in this lineup will make major strides. And where is that going to come from, if anywhere? I guess we should talk about O'Neill Cruz, and we should also talk about Hayes, the perpetually hurt and frustrating but tantalizing Brian Hayes. So maybe we can start with Cruz, who is among the most tantalizing players in baseball, but can he put it together? What progress, if any, did you see him make last season after the season he missed? And what is his position going to be in the short term and in the long term? Tell us about O'Neill Cruz. Well, on sheer talent, Ben, I mean, this is a guy who

could certainly be a 30-30 player. He did have 21 homers and 22 steals last year in what was really his first full big league season. You know, they moved him to shortstop to center field in late August, hoping that maybe that would free his mind up a little bit not to worry about his fielding at shortstop. You know, he's the tallest player ever to play the position in big league history at six foot seven He has to get better at not chasing pitches out of the zone and I realize he's still a Relatively young player but that's that's something that's going to have to happen because too many times he gets himself out by swinging at bad pitches and you know, he certainly has

Tremendous power. And he certainly has tremendous power, I mean, big time power, big time bat speed. His hex of velocities are among the very highest in baseball last year. I believe he was second in the majors in average hex of velocity. He can run, he's really fast, he's 6'7", he's got real long legs, so he takes big strides,

can cover a lot of ground in a hurry. But he needs to kind of smooth out the edges plate discipline uh you know he needs to learn when to pick his spots better to steal a base he's not a high percentage base stealer and you know he looked a little rough in center field but again it was only 23 games so i don't want to jump to too many conclusions about his playing center field, but certainly he has the potential to be a really, really good baseball player. And we'll find out. I think this is the interesting year for him.

He's got his feet on the ground now. He has one full year now and change of a couple others in the big leagues. I think this is the year either he turns into that real star player or he just becomes a good player instead of a great player. But he certainly has the talent and the ability to be a great player. And as for Hayes, I know he said he was pain-free recently, right? But he also seemed to suggest that he might never be 100% again, which is kind of disconcerting

and back issues, they linger. So how is his health and is his failure to launch literally and figuratively, I guess last year, was that related to his health? Cause it seemed like he had really unlocked something at the end of the previous season. Yeah, he finally admitted to me late last season in September after they shut him down for the year that he was not completely healthy even on opening day. He really hurt his back in spring training, tried to play through it and just couldn't.

I think it really bothers him that a lot of people are starting to think he's a bust and thinks that he doesn't want to play because he's a very quiet, soft-spoken guy. And I think a lot of times people mistake that for somebody that doesn't care, but he really does care. And he really loves to play baseball. But you know, like you said, he had the big second half in 2023, and it really seemed like that was going to be a platform for him to launch into a really good 2024. But you know, he hurt his back. And I mean, at this point, it's so hard to tell, like you said, back

problems so many times can be chronic. And, you know, we've, we've seen all seen players whose careers have either been cut short or certainly hindered by back problems and, you know, I hate to write the guy off at 27 because I do know he's a hard worker and he wants to get on the field But I just don't know physically if he's going to become that player That the Pirates hoped he was going to be when they gave him the eight-year contract three years ago I want to ask about one bright spot from last year both for the player and for the Pirates and then Talk about first base this year because they're going to kind of interplay with each other potentially. But he didn't play a full season because of injury, but Joey Bart sure

seemed like he righted the ship at the plate after a disastrous start to his career in San Francisco. He hit very well last year. I'm curious what you saw improving for him, what changes he made. And then I'm curious if Andy Rodriguez has any possibility of moving back to catcher at some point. This was a guy who was a highly regarded prospect, dealt with a lot of injury, and is seemingly finally healthy again. So talk to us about Bart and then talk to us about Andy's future. You know, you're right, they do have good catching depth, probably about as good catching depth as any organization in baseball right now. Joey Bart, I really believe a lot of it wasn't so much a mechanical adjustment, I think it was

just a mental adjustment. I think sometimes it changes scenery does do a player well, and I think Joey Bart had hit the wall in San Francisco. He hadn't lived up to the lofty expectations being the number two overall draft pick in 2019 or and You know being the next buster Posey and I just think the change of scenery helped him He seemed to be rejuvenated He seemed to play with a lot less pressure and he hit 13 homers and only 80 games and you know Another thing it helped and I think sometimes this probably gets underplayed a little bit for some players Joey Bart's dad is with Pittsburgh guy and all his father's side of the family most of his mother's side of the family are from Pittsburgh now

He grew up in Atlanta and went to Georgia Tech But he had a lot of family here and he was telling me the late last season how that Really gave him a lot of comfort. He really felt like he was at home. It was good to look in the stands and see aunts and uncles and cousins. And I think sometimes guys just need that change of scenery players. And I think that really helped him and ended up being a real find for the Pirates. They had a couple of catchers hurt and were kind of in desperation mode looking for somebody to fill in for a few weeks. Bart would have been DFA by the

Giants and now he goes into the season as their number one catcher Andy Rodriguez You know, yeah, he had the elbow surgery. He hurt his elbow and winter ball after the 2023 season and his minikin had Tommy John surgery came back and played in ten games late in the year in the minor leagues He looked good in spring training The Pirates are still high on him, you know Obviously he had a had a rough transition to the big leagues when he got caught up in 23 Then missed 24 as far as big league time But he's certainly a guy who's still considered a very good young player and has a chance

to be a really good player. The Pirates have a pretty good problem there with two young catchers who are both very talented and they still have Henry Davis trying to hold out hope against hope that maybe he'll live up to his billing as the first overall draft pick. And they have another player who's a backup, a number two, but Jason DeLay, who's a very good defensive catcher who kind of is lost in the shuffle with all the other better hitters.

I went to the Pirates home closer. Do we ever say home closer? We say home opener. Why not a home closer? I went to their last regular season game last September at PNC and Andrew McCutcheon got big cheers. And I think it's great that that reunion happened and now it's going on three years

because he resigned, he's back again. I do wonder since he never won a World Series, never really had the chance to, a lot of guys, they start getting up there in years and their careers are winding down. And if they enter their journeyman one-year contract phase, they do prioritize going to a team that could get them to that ring. And McCutcheon hasn't done that unless he has a very inflated opinion of the Pirates

chances of doing that for him. So is he frustrated at all that they have not surrounded him with more talent in these latter years? Or is he just very clear-eyed about that and he just really likes being in the city and being in this park and playing in front of these fans and just cares about that more than chasing a ring? Well, you know, it's funny. I've known Andrew since he was 18 and was their first round draft pick back in 2005, somewhere

in that range now. It's been so long I can't remember for sure what year it was. But he's an honest guy and he likes playing in Pittsburgh. I really believe if the Pirates didn't want him, he would retire. I understand where you're coming from and I agree most players would want that World Series ring And I think Andrew does deep down but you know, he married a woman from here She worked on like the cannonball crew or whatever the the people shoot t-shirts into the stands with the with the guns and hotdogs And stuff so he married her and they have four children and he lives here in Pittsburgh year-round

And he really likes it. It's even though he's from Florida It's this has become his adopted hometown and he really insists He doesn't want trading and he doesn't want to play anywhere else and even last year. I asked him toward the end of the year I said What if somebody legitimate World Series contender called you would you listen? He goes no, I only want to play in Pittsburgh So he's committed here. He keeps saying, at least publicly, that he thinks the Pirates are better than people outside the organization. Give them credit for he thinks they're close to winning. I love Andrew, but I'll agree to disagree with him on that. I don't think

they're close to being a World Series team. But he's very comfortable here and very happy here and he wants to ride out his career here. I don't know if this will be his last year. He said he's going to play it by ear, but you know he's still a decent player. I mean he's not what he was 10 years ago, but he's still a useful, helpful player. He's a DH and he did hit 20 homers, which was second on the team last year. So you know he's still a contributor. He's not just, as Ben Cherigan said, it's not like he's a hood ornament. He's still a competent big league player. We've noted the struggles of the Pirates offense, and they have a bunch of these sort of

complimentary role player veteran types. Are there guys in the high minors who you anticipate seeing big league time this year if there are injuries to any of these guys who are currently anticipated to break camp with the big league club or underperformance from any of those guys? You know, that's definitely an organizational problem. They do not have hardly any hitting prospects at all and really nothing in the upper minor leagues, which is why you see them sign six-year free agents and some of those guys end up getting to the big leagues. You know, beyond catcher, which we just covered, there's not a whole lot position player-wise there. They have a guy named Liovo Pagaro, but he'll be beginning his third year at AAA. Now he's been up some in the last couple years, and he's he's shown some flashes. He has some power

He has some speed, but he just hasn't had a chance to Get consistent playing time and now they're they plan on playing Isaiah Isaiah kind of Falefa at shortstop and Nick Gonzalez at second base so Baguero's blocked here But you know they have plenty of pitchers coming in AAA this year, plenty of highly regarded guys, but not many hitters. And so they, yeah, they really can't afford too many injuries. They already have Horwitz out, and you know, if they get a rash of injuries in their lineup, a lineup that's already not very strong would really be bad if they have no reinforcements.

Well, let's talk about that pitching then. If anything, we've waited too long to do that. So they have the 11th best projected rotation according to FanGraphs currently. I'd probably take the over on that. I'm pretty bullish on this group. And let's start at the top with the man of last season and hopefully many seasons to come, Paul Skeens. What, if anything, is he working on? New pitches, what is he planning to do differently this year? And what will his workloads look like? Well, he said he's preparing to throw 240 innings.

And I think Paul thinks it's 1974 apparently when he says that. But no, but I mean, he realizes he's not going to pitch 240 innings. But that kind of speaks to his mindset of how he wants to be a workhorse. He wants to be the guy who pitches deep in the games every time out. You know, he already has about 12 pitches and now he's adding a sinker to his repertoire to try to get a few more double plays. And he really wants to take on a leadership role.

And I know it's always tricky, one, for a pitcher because they don't play every day, they're only on the field once or twice a week. And he's also only 22, so he's not exactly terribly experienced or very old. But he also has the respect of everyone in that clubhouse already, because not only is he a good pitcher, but he has the work ethic and the humbleness to match it. He's a really popular figure with his teammates. And it's a team that doesn't have a whole lot of leaders right now. They have, you know, they need some of that guiding force in the clubhouse.

And if there's any 22-year-old that can pull that feet off and be a leader, I think it's Skeen. He's so mature and just so well respected for the work ethic that he has. I think we could ask a slightly similar question of Jared Jones, obviously not quite as successful a year last year, but obviously quite talented. First, what has he been working on this off season? And then similar to Skeens, how much of him do you anticipate we'll see this year? Well, Jones had a good first half last year. He kind of wore down in the second half. He had some, I guess it was tendonitis in his shoulder You know he came back and he didn't pitch real well in September. He's not the most physical guy Meg

He's only like 6'1", 170. He's not like Skeen's who's 6'6", 250 and he's a max effort Delivery, so there's always gonna be a little bit of question if he can stay healthy. But he has great stuff. I mean, his fastball tops out at 100, he has good breaking stuff, he's got a decent change up for a young pitcher, he's only 22. So he's certainly a guy who, if they can get skeins and him together and a couple, Bubba Chandler, who's coming up, he'll'll be up from AAA probably at some point this season. They have the makings of a really great top of the rotation and the type of team, if they could ever get

into the post season, would be awfully tough to beat because they would be able to run out really top of the line pitchers in every game of a short series. Yeah, when would you expect Chandler to arrive? Obviously that's contingent on his performance, but he's one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. How good could he be? And if he is good from the get-go,

then when will the Pirates summon him to Pittsburgh? Well, I think by signing Andrew Heaney, that buys them a little time to have him go back to triple A. He only made eight starts at AAA. He was at AA most of last year, but he pitched really great in AAA in Indianapolis. He may be a guy that pushes himself onto the roster this spring. I mean, it could happen. I don't think it will, but nobody at this time last year thought Jared Jones would be in the opening day rotation too, and he had a late south spring, and they couldn't send him back to the minors he was just too

good but I think a more realistic timeline for Chandler to be come up sometime in the middle of the season if he does well, triple A you know he's not he's not the most experienced pitcher ever he was a two-sport player in high school and he actually was a recruit to Clemson as a quarterback. So he hasn't really, he also was a two-way player when he first came into Pro Ball four years ago. So he hasn't really been exclusively a pitcher except for the last two seasons. So, you know, there's still a bit of a learning curve for him, but he has outstanding stuff and you can tell he has outstanding makeup. He's, he definitely has confidence in himself, not so much in a cocky way, but he knows that he's good and

and I think he'll push his way into the big leagues at some point this year. I'm not so sure to be opening day, but I think at some point we'll see him and once he gets here he looks like the type of guy that's going to stay in the big leagues. And I guess we should make mention of Mitch Keller, who the Pirates did commit some money to, by their standards, a great bit of money to, right? Last February, he's just a steady eddy guy, you know, he's not going to blow you away like Skeens and Jones potentially would, someone like Chandler. But talk to us about sort of the back end of that rotation, the Keller, the Heaney, the falter of it all. And then who might be apart from Chandler, depth behind those guys.

And Keller's case, you're right. He's not a number one. And for a couple of years here, they asked him to be a number one. And that's what Skeen's got called up. And, you know, he held his own in that role. But I think now you look at him as a number three, and I think that's where he fits. He's a good mid-rotation starter. He had a really bad second half last year, and you know, I'll be curious to see how he rebounds from that. But you're right, they did commit money to him. Five years, 73 million last year in spring training. But I think he's a good, and it's kind of hard to believe already because he's only 27, but in this rotation he becomes like a veteran presence. And I think he's a good mid-rotation

starter and I think he will start, they haven't commented yet because the deal is not official, so they're not saying exactly how they're going to use him, but my indications I'm getting from people in the organization are that he would start, and then it would probably be either Bailey Falter, another lefty, or Johan Oviedo, who had Tommy John surgery and missed last season. He threw 177 innings two years ago, so he showed some durability. And then at Tripway, you'll have Bubba Chandler who we talked about they also have some other interesting prospects Thomas Harrington a guy Who's really been on the rise last year in the organization is you know?

And a lot of people's top 100 prospects list, you know not lower like in the 80s or 90s They also have Braxton Ashcraft who's a big right-hander with great stuff, but he's had a lot of injuries throughout his career. And he's 25 now and still trying to get a foothold in AAA, but certainly if he ever stays healthy, another really good prospect. And they have Mike Burrows, who made his debut in the last weekend of the season, last year at Yankee Stadium and got the win in his debut. Another highly talented guy who pitched in the Futures game two years ago. Also had Tommy John surgery

and now came off of that in the second half of last season. So, you know, they have four prospects at Tripway who all figure to be at least average big league starters are better. So they really do have a lot of pitching depth between the major leagues and minor leagues. And at some point you wonder if they're going to trade some of that depth for hitting because as we covered there's not a whole lot of hitting here. And they did do that with Luis Ortiz, the right hand, 25 year old right hander

going to Cleveland as part of that Spencer Horwood steal. But they definitely have the starting pitching in the organization and that's what gives them hope that they could be pretty good here for now and in the future. What about the bullpen? If some of those younger guys don't go that deep into games, what about this group that they have behind them? Aroldis Chapman's not here anymore. David Bednar is still here, but is coming off a rough season for him. Guess we could start with Bednar,

who I think some people think they held onto him too long. They should have dealt him. He was a trade candidate. He seems like another guy who, like McCutcheon, likes being in the city. He's from Pittsburgh. So was that a miscalculation or was that just a calculation that no, we just want to stay in the David Bednar business as long as we can. And, and can he still be that back end guy and who else might be in that mix?

It's a great question for this year. He was outstanding his first three years with the Pirates in 21, 22, and 23. Got picked a couple All-Star games, had a 225 ERA in that span. He hurt his lat in spring training last year, and I think they bungled the whole thing, the Pirates. They put him on the opening day roster. He'd only pitched twice in spring training and he clearly wasn't right at the beginning of the season. He got hit around and, you know, he had it for a while there for a couple months, he had a good stretch, but then things went haywire again in the last two months of the season. They say that he is not the closer yet. They're going to

have a competition in spring training, but they also signed him again they didn't on tender him like I thought they might or trade him and they signed him for 5.9 million which for a pirate players a fortune they just don't pay guys any money so when they that tells you he's going to be the closer. Yeah and I think you're right they probably should have traded him and I think in most situations they would have but I think their heart kind of got in the way of their heads here and you know, he is a local guy and Their relationship the team's relationship with the fans is rather afraid

So I think they're a little hesitant to trade away a local guy And I know certainly Bednar wants to stay here because this and I've often told people You know, I'm 61 years old and I was born and raised here and lived here my whole life. And I've never met anybody who embraces being from Pittsburgh more than David Bednar. He just loves everything about it and he plays up to it. But you know, even though he's that, they do need him to pitch better this year. They think that he will. He's certainly got in better shape. I thought he really got heavy at the end of last season. And so I'm in spring

training, and he's clearly dropped some weight. And I think hopefully that will help. And really, if he's not the answer, the closer, they really don't have a clear-cut solution there. And it'll be interesting to see what they do if he does indeed not pan out because last year they had a role as Chapman who ended up with 14 saves is filling closer, but they don't have that guy this year. Is there anyone else in the mix there? Any intriguing arms who could ascend to that role or even just be part of the setup crew? What's the hierarchy right now? I tell you who I kind of like,

and I know if you look at his career numbers, he hasn't been that good and he's bounced around a lot, but they seem to find something with Dennis Santana last year when they claimed him off waivers from the Yankees in June. And he quietly had a really good last three and a half months here. And he looks like a rec reclamation project and I think maybe

they would give him a shot if Bednar falters. You know they have Colin Holderman who is a setup man and you know his numbers weren't good last year but they really got skewed by a five game span in the middle of the season where he was just off one and got hit hard for like a week and a half every time he pitched but he's a he's an intriguing guy throws hard has a good breaking pitch it's interesting I didn't think they would leave themselves exposed to closer like that so it'll be they'll have a lot of choices but none that are certainly proven like a world as Chapman was last year and that's why I was surprised they didn't at least make an effort to bring voices, but none that are certainly proven like a world as Chapman was last year. That's why I was surprised they didn't at least make an effort to bring Chapman back

this year. Well, another guy who's back is Bob Nutting and Pirates fans would like that not to be the case, but no matter how many billboards they buy, he has not sold the team. He hasn't seemed to show any inclination that he wants to. And we kind of just know what his MO is at this point. So does he enjoy owning the Pirates? Does he enjoy kind of being reviled in Pittsburgh? It's been 20 years almost since his family has had control of this team. He took over as the primary

person in 2007. So you long predated Bob Nutting and you've seen the whole Nutting era here. So he's getting as much in revenue sharing right now, more or less, as the Pirates are spending in payroll. There's not much difference there. So is he just content to pocket that cash? Does he not see that you look at the bones of this team and the pitching staff, that there's an opportunity here? Will he ever change? And if he won't ever change, then will this team ever change hands?

You know, I'll give the guy credit for one thing. He truly does not care what public perception is because I can't imagine being that hated like he is by the fan base here. I mean, you know, I mean, I realize when you're in business and you're a multi-billionaire that you have to have a certain amount of thick skin. But, you know, it really doesn't seem to bother him that fans hate him here. And, you know, he just goes about his business. I mean, he hasn't availed himself to the media, you know, in over a year. I haven't talked to him in at least two years. He just pretty

much hides. But here's the deal, Ben. He made, according to Forbes, and I think it's a pretty reliable source on certainly financial matters, in 2023 he had an operating profit of $68 million. And if you're a businessman and you could put a subpar product on the field and still make $68 million, you really don't have incentive to put a good team on the field because it's just going to cost you more money to pay players what they're worth or pay the going rate for good players. And he wasn't a baseball guy.

And I'll tell you a quick story. The first year he took over the team he pushed Kevin McClatchy out as owner. He bought up a lot of minority shares to the point where he had the majority ownership and he pushed Kevin McClatchy out. It was in spring training one day, the Pirates were taking batting practice before Grapefruit League game in Tampa against the Yankees and he's there, Bob Nutting, and he comes up to me and we start talking. He seems like a nice enough guy. I'd never really known him other than to say hello.

And so I go to him. I said, you know, this must be really cool. I said, every sports fan in any sport always said, if I owned the team, I would do this and I would do that. I would do this. I said, and you own the team, so you can do whatever you want. And I said, are you a big baseball fan? And he goes, well, I was in a couple games before I bought a stake in the team. He said, and no disrespect to either one of these sports, but he goes, I was more into tennis and skeet shooting

growing up. I really didn't follow baseball. And right then I kind of thought, uh-oh, here's a guy that has no interest in this, anything more than an investment. And that's proven to be the case. Jared Ranere Well, maybe if there's ever a salary floor imposed, that'll be his time to get out. Okay, that's it for me. I made my money. John Greenewald I guarantee you, yeah. Yeah. I think that would be the one thing that would hasten him to sell the team. But he has no desire to sell the team. And again, I don't blame him. And the other thing is, I think it's his biggest source of revenue now.

His family newspapers is how they made their fortune. We all know the newspaper industry is in the tank now, so he's not making nearly as much money off his newspapers as he would have even 10 years ago You know, he had a check. He had three ski resorts here in Western, Pennsylvania He sold all those I believe two years ago now So he's really divested himself of a lot and I think this is his main source of income And like I said, if he can ride it he can he can make 68 million dollars a year by putting a bad team on the field and he can make $68 million a year by putting a bad team on the field, he really has no incentive to try to win.

And it's sad because when they did win here in 13, 14, and 15, played in the wildcard game each year, they were drawing well. There was a lot of excitement in the city and the whole region. You know, the whole north shore there where the ballpark is located was really hopping, especially on Fridays and Saturdays, but even during the week. And people want to winter and people say, well, it's a football town, it's a hockey town, and it is. But if the Pirates are even decent, it's a good baseball town too. But the Pirates haven't given the fans many reasons to get excited

here in the last five, six, seven years. Well, that leads us to our last question, which is what would constitute success for this team this season? For Bob Nutting, I guess the answer is make a tidy profit. But for Pirates fans, for the organization, how should they evaluate whether this season went the right way? Well, I think they need to get back over 500

and show some significant progress. You know, they went, Ben, they won 76 and 86 each in the last two years, but they were two drastically different 76 and 86s. The year before in 2023, they finished strong. They went 18 and 12 in their last 30. They basically locked, knocked the Reds and the Cubs out of playoff contention in the last two weeks of the season And really seemed like they were on the upswing

You know, they were in the they were in the race at the end of july last year They were only like two and a half three games out of the last wild card certainly in position To make a run and then they had a 10 game losing streak early in august and it just took them right Just their season went all to hell. And now, you know, they come back and I think they need a winning season. It'll be interesting because Ben Charrington, the GM, and Derek Shelton, the manager, this is going into their sixth season.

And again, Bob Nutting doesn't avail himself to the media, so we don't know exactly what he's thinking. But I've got to believe if they don't show progress this year, not necessarily make the playoffs, but look like they're at least getting closer, then I think you may see another tear down and another start from scratch again with a new manager and a new GM. Well, at least you can look forward to continued coverage from John Peratto, who clearly is going to give it to you straight, as we saw on this segment. And you can find his writing about the Pirates at Pittsburgh Baseball Now, and about baseball in general at Forbes and elsewhere.

John, thank you very much for coming on. Oh, my pleasure, Ben. Meg, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. All right, on yesterday's episode, I revealed my newfound affection for John Brebbia, the reliever who just joined the Tigers. Perhaps my favorite form of humor is self-deprecation,

and Brebbia is a master, though I'm sure he wouldn't say so, because again, self-deprecating. However, I'm catching up on a lot of lore about Brebbia, and listener Rob wrote in with a couple clips from Brebbia's Giants days, so let me play him for you. Here he is in late September 2022, after he had started a few games as an opener. This is a clip collage put together by KNBR.

Why? What are we doing? We're talking to the starting pitcher. I accidentally threw an inning. Yeah well you've actually done it nine times and haven't given up a run so. Well there goes that. Sorry that's on me. No that's fine. It feels a whole lot like other innings. It's just earlier in the day. Sun is still out What have your impressions been of Shelby Miller? The poor guy I think they've made contact twice now in the six innings so he'll get better for sure just a work in progress yeah I don't know I'm not really sure where our schedule is going forward but

I'm here to I'm here I'll be here hopefully unless they lock the door on me. Yeah, yeah, great work everybody. Great work, let's keep it up, yeah. And here's an even more delightful Brebia highlight reel tweeted out by the Giants from a September, 2023 broadcast on ESPN's Saturday Night Baseball, actually to bring things full circle, when he was being interviewed in the bullpen during a game.

Again, I'm fine with players who are not on the field being interviewed during a game. At the very end, there is a little handshake ritual that has to be seen to be appreciated, but you'll get a good sense of his personality prior to that. The only photo I see of myself is when I stand really still in the mirror. I've never seen anything else. You know, I thought it'd be cool to be like a starter. That didn't work out. I thought it'd be cool to be a closer. That hadn't worked out. Well, these two are identical twins, which a lot of people look at them and they don't see it, but I see it through and through. This isn't a game to us, David.

This is all business all the time, all serious. So we'll talk stocks. We'll talk agrarian cultures and the rise and fall of empires, but we'll never play games. That's one thing I can promise you. Yeah, if we're up by two in the ninth, I take a nice deep sigh of relief and I watch Camilla DeVall warm up. Yeah, you get the best of the bunch.

Clean shaven, yes, yes. Thank you very much. Enjoy your time over in the road pen. Yeah, gonna go over and see Colorado now. Oh. Brebbia is the best, And I was going to stop there, but I can't because the Brebbia rabbit hole goes deeper. Thank you to listener Alexandra, big Brebbia fan, who wrote in and compiled a list, a two-page list of quotes and clips from Brebbia's time with the Giants.

So I've just spent about an hour just watching Brebia videos, reading Brebia quotes. I learned that like me, he has been ostracized for being an Android user. Brebia is a green texter, Kapler explained. You never even know if he's getting your messages. Apparently he told his teammates to reach him via email instead. I will share Alexander's document on the show page so that you can read and enjoy all of the Brebbia quotes about how he manages to eat yogurt with a beard for instance or how he played Beethoven's Fur Elise on the Clubhouse stereo before his first major league start. I think it helped to piss people off a little bit like oh my gosh we've got to listen to this Brebbia said and then they got all fired up and

played better. He is a classical music fan. I enjoy it he said but I won't put my headphones on right now and say hey Beethoven's fifth baby let's go is that C, but I won't put my headphones on right now and say, hey, Beethoven's fifth, baby, let's go, is that C minor? But I will throw it on at my house in the morning when I make coffee. I think other than being a coffee drinker, we might be the same person. If I grow my beard out, it's a bit reddish. He has young kids, a young daughter, about the same age as my daughter. And I gotta play a few selections from a couple interviews that Alexandra shared. One is from when he was miked up in spring training with the Giants in 2023. Another is an interview he did in July 2023 with NBC Sports Bay Area. I'll start with the latter.

Here he is talking about how laid back he is compared to other major league players, which I strongly identify with. This is why I was a big Bernie Williams fan. Sounds strange, but I never went into it with this like intense, I'm gonna make it to the major leagues attitude. I just kind of did it because it was fun and I never wanted to be bad. I was constantly trying to be the best that I could but I was okay if I wasn't and I was okay if I failed and I think that was a that was a huge help because I could just enjoy myself.

When I started enjoying myself things changed drastically. I played angry baseball for many years because that's kind of what I thought I saw out of big leaguers was this like you know you're changed drastically. I played angry baseball for many years, because that's kind of what I thought I saw out of big leaguers, was this like, you're not smiling, you give up a hit and you're all ticked off, and you just kind of have this aggressive focus towards the sport. So I was like, oh, cool, I can do that. And I couldn't.

I was terrible at it. So it was nice to be able to sort of break through those constraints of affiliated baseball and trying to be the And here he is talking about his affection for spreadsheets, I kid you not, which he has nicknamed spreadies. I asked Andrew Bailey about you and he said, you know, ask him about the rehab and ask him about his spreadies. He said he is the ultimate Excel guy, spreadsheet guy, and he said he thought that was really important actually

during the rehab because you were tracking every little part. How did that come about and what were you doing to track every throw, every workout? I could be the worst possible person at using Excel or Google Sheet Spreadsheets, but I have so much fun doing it. And I like tracking things, I like quantifying things, so I would start figuring out, okay, but I have so much fun doing it. And I like tracking things.

I like quantifying things. So I would start figuring out, OK, if I want to, I'd like to come back healthy. I'd like to come back as good as I can be at baseball. What a letdown if I was terrible. Ironically enough, I was. Horrible 2021. A lot of work for absolutely no redeeming benefits.

But I just started tracking everything. Spreadies are just, they cut right to my heart. They're so fun. He said you have to ask him spreadsheets spreadies from now on. Remember Solitaire on the computer where you would win and it would kind of had that sort of feeling without the noise. Okay, I'm calling spreadsheets spreadies from now on. Here he is talking about what he says sometimes when he's removed from games. I asked Gabe about you and he said, one thing about John is that when I come out to take him out of a game, oftentimes he will ask, are you sure? What are mound visits like with John Brevia? It's, you know, I've mentioned that. And I've seen you do that.

Yeah. I've mentioned before I enjoy pitching. If I give up six hits in a row, I'm not happy by any means. But I still enjoy being out there because now it's the challenge of, okay, well, I've got to get somebody out. So if Gabe wants to come out and say, hey John, this is going not very well, I'll just double check. I don't think there's any harm

in being overly communicative. And I'll say, are you sure? Statistically, they're not gonna get seven hits in a row, which is what I'll say after three hits in a row too, and it really never works out. But I don't think there's any harm in trying to make sure that we're all on the same page, and we always are.

And here he is explaining why he often has a big bushy beard, even though he doesn't seem to like it. In my first year of independent ball halfway through the season in 2014, a few of my teammates just were growing out their beards during the season just for fun, just because things in Indie Ball are fun. And I thought, oh, okay, I'll jump on that train, sure, why not? So for the rest of that season, I just didn't shave. Um, looked terrible. As you can see, it does not look great, it does not feel great,

but it was just kind of a fun thing to do with teammates, to connect with teammates. From there, it just kept going. One of my many character flaws is my obedience to stubbornness and I just haven't stopped doing it. There's no redeeming qualities, I don't get anything out of it. The best I can give you is that it's a reminder to have fun, it's a reminder of, you know, John, you've been released, you've been nowhere close to where you are now, so I get to go in the mirror and look at my face

and I'm like, oh, that's right. This has been a pretty cool path. Okay, here he is miked up in spring training 2023, talking about how he throws gas. Oh man, I'm gonna throw a hundred. Tony, trade everyone. I love that. I hope I sit 99 with an absolutely bang and slider and I punch everyone out on

three pitches and you release me because I didn't hit 100. Or I just absolutely blow like my arm falls off in the middle of a game like it detaches that would be cool but that's less likely. Just because of the bones and the skin hold it all together. Rockets. Absolute Rockets. In Jan? What? Here he is joking about weighted balls. Are those weighted? After today though, no more of this BS okay? This doesn't work. I'm trying to get everyone off weighted balls so they all throw slower like me. All you guys throwing a hundred. A hundred is going to be easy to hit soon, okay? It's all about low nineties.

And finally, here's Brebrea talking to multi-time Effectively Wild guest Fernando Perez about how and where he spent his offseason. How are you doing? Great. Good to see you. Oh my goodness. Okay, where was it? Where was your off season?

Everywhere? New York? Were you back home? I was in Mexico a lot. What about you? Atlanta. I don't think I left my house. Taking kids to and from school, that's about it.

It-me. This is a Spider-Man pointing meme situation, except that he's better at baseball than I am. Aside from that, we're the same person. He was even in Indie Ball in 2015 when Sam and I were. Sam used to say baseball players aren't funny, but some of them are, including my beloved Brebbia. I have never needed to be friends with a man more than I need to be friends with John Brebbia.

Someone please put us in touch. Maybe he can come play for the Yankees now that they won't make him shave his beard. We can hang out. Might be tough though, since neither of us goes out. That'll do it for today and for this week. Thanks as always for listening. You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild

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