Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2387: GIDPodcast

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley revisit Meg’s experience of Mariners-Tigers ALDS Game 5 and recap the first few games of the Championship Series round, touching on postseason broadcast booths, the Mariners’ mauling of the Blue Jays in Toronto, Pat Murphy’s burnishing of the Brewers’ underdog image, broader narrative-building about the Brewers-Dodgers series, whether the Dodgers […]

Number one, Fangrass baseball podcast. The Stadcast is that blasts. T-O-P-S-plus when the stats need contrast. Zips and steamer for the forecast. Hello and welcome to episode 2387 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs, presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of the Ringer, joined by Meg Rally of FanGRALY of FanG. Hello, Meg.

Hello. I will remind everyone that we are planning our first playoff live stream for Patreon supporters at the Ned Garver tier or above. This Friday, this Friday night, this Friday evening, details to come. We will message you if you were at the appropriate tier, but you can sign up any time before then if you care to participate. Let's talk a little bit about games that have already happened because there have been a bunch. We are recording here on Monday afternoon-ish. my time, morning, your time. It's Tuesday, Ben.

That's right. Wow, it's Tuesday. We missed a whole day there. There was a holiday, and we didn't do a podcast that day. So, yes, a whole holiday. No, but we had a whole day get away from me, at least, evidently. So here we are on Tuesday, which I should have known, because Monday was a day of two baseball games. Two games.

And Tuesday will be a day of just one baseball game, which we are recording before. But I imagine that the Mariners being up to nothing in the ALCS over Toronto as we speak has done a lot to improve your mental state, which people got a glimpse of, just a snippet in the post script of the last episode recorded at a very late or early hour, perhaps under the influence of certain substances, and certainly under the influence of a 15-inning. Yeah. Nail biter of a game. Delirium. Yeah. That ended up, went your way in the end. But now that you've had a few days to decompress and a couple victories to get over things.

Yeah. How are you feeling about that marathon classic? And how were you feeling then while it was proceeding? Well, how did I feel then? I was simultaneously begging for it to end. and terrified that it would. I didn't have fun. I can appreciate in hindsight

that it was a good game, that it was tense, that it was narratively satisfying, that, you know, both of those teams just left everything they had out on the field. You sit there and you go, who even started that game?

You know, like that, you feel that's such a remove from it. Yeah, because all the starters pitched eventually, basically. Pretty much everybody pitched, yeah. And so you, you can lose sight of a good, a quite good start. From Kirby, you can lose sight of the relief appearance, almost tier two four unheard of, for, well, unheard of for Luis Castillo, I think, if I remember correctly, Logan Gilbert has appeared in relief one other time. It had been in the playoffs, not these playoffs, to be clear. And so you had this very odd experience, or I did, where you're, your, you know, you have Kirby.

Kirby does a very good job. He only gives up the one run. Scoobel, Magnificence, you know, magnificent, Ben. Like, we should. I worry when you have games like that that go on for so long, so long that you have a second seventh inning stretch, a second salmon run with Humpty, emerging victorious. Let us not forget the contribution of Humpy. And now there's like a weird, like, mystical decision for Mariners PR to make. Move over Etsy witch.

It's now the Humpty Mariners haven't lost in the Humpty winning era. Yeah. And so it's like, do you have him win every time? do you just let the race run straight? I mean, to be clear, they had to have been messing with Humpey prior to this,

right? Like, there's no way you never win. I'm on record as saying that they need to replace whoever is running for Randy Johnson in the Legends race at Chase because he should just win much more often than he does. He doesn't never win, but he

should win more. I think they need a new runner. But with Humpey, it's become this joke right you know and and victor robles like raced him during their in their scrimmage and he won and he sounded kind of mean about it candidly and then and then you get brian woo just delighted at the victory of humpy i have a plush humpy and so i have a little i have this is why i'm leading with humpy people are like didn't they play baseball yeah they did we'll get to that don't worry about it so you know you you you fret that in these games where you end up um doing a round two of all the little ballpark traditions that the starters will have been forgotten.

And that would be a tragedy because, you know, Scoobel was just so magnificent. And really, but for a funny bit of base running and some bad luck, like, wouldn't have allowed to run at all. And Kirby, you know, not quite as impressive, obviously not as dominant strikeout performance, but quite good on his own. And then, you know, we would, we'd be remiss if we did not recognize the contributions of one Carrie Carpenter, who I don't need to see play baseball again for a while is what I've decided. Well, you won't have to. Right.

I don't need to be thinking about Carrie Carpenter anymore. And so, you know, you risk missing those things. But also, you have to grapple with the stuff that did end up mattering a little bit more. like little Leo Rivas having the best birthday of his whole dumb life, you know, and not a dumb life, but like a life that included being in the minors for years and years, right? On this team sort of in a peripheral bench roll, manages to tie it up, manages to do what's necessary. And then you, and then you as a fan have this moment where you're like, I love Leo Rivas.

And then you have this other moment where you're like, I hate Leo Rivas. because Leo Rivas doing what he did means they're still playing. Will they play forever? I have multiple very pregnant friends right now, and they were convinced that this game was going to send them into labor. And like, not in a joking way. They're like, I'm very worried about my heart rate right now. I think that this is bad for the baby.

And I was like, that's, that's, like, pretty concerning. And so you have all of this. And then you just feel lucky, Ben, that your team employs the best player in baseball, Jorge Polanco, about whom you have never said a bad word, about whom you have only said good words. You've only ever been delighted that Jorge Polanco is in your baseball orbit. You have only ever been thrilled that he came back on a funny little deal

that seemed unlikely and then ended up maybe defining the trajectory of your whole stupid franchise. guys like that's remarkable and it just went on it went on for so long i was like surely you know one of these starters will have a bad time and it'll end and like you know it almost did for jack flarity a couple of times you're like when was when when has how was logan gilbert being asked to do this what toll is it going to take it then you're like oh god it really kind of maybe took a toll when you watched him play the blue just it didn't end up mattering but boy. And then you get all this redemption for some of the guys, although you feel nervous going forward. You feel nervous about Gabe Spire. But then you're recording on Tuesday. So you have the

benefit of not hindsight, but future sight. And you know, hey, Gabe's going to come in and a tight game in Toronto. He's going to pitch great. It's going to be fine. He's not going to give up a home run. You can have a little quick, one, two, three inning. Quick, quick, quick, quick. gonna be fine I been as listeners who stuck around for the

post script we'll know I had set it up so that I knew I wasn't going to be editing that night we've been so lucky to have Kyrie at the

ballpark for these Mariners' home games she does such a nice job she tends to be because of the vagaries of the express bus schedule someone who

we end up editing first thing in the morning the next day which I do not offer criticism just as like a I knew I didn't have to engage work mode, Meg.

And so I was like, I'll have a little tipple, you know, just like a little, and I'll have a, I'll have a sake. Because then it's like, it's a sipping, it's a sipping sort of thing. It's, you know, be civilized. And then you got a message from me, hey, want to record a little note for the podcast listeners? Here's what happened. I had, I've been on a little bit of a sake kick lately. I've just been enjoying it as like the tipple that I have. And so I had a couple different little.

you know you can get those little little well you don't really drink much but you can get these little like kind of single serve guys they have them at various grocery stores the quality of them wildly variable but i've had like i had a couple of the little guy you know you like papa they come in a little metal can and they have one of those like pop top um guys and the cats always think that i'm getting wet food out for them they're like where's our wet food mom and i'm like no this is this is mommy special treat this is not this is not for you this is for mommy and so So I opened one of those, and then the game starts to happen and go the way it does. And I had an amateur moment. I drank it too fast. And someone who was less feral and nervous than I was in that moment would say, okay, have that be the only one you had. But I, a little bit tipsy and also incredibly nervous was like, why not just drink another one? And so I haven't gone back to listen to the voice memo I sent you. I don't know how sober I sounded.

I wasn't like hammered, but I was not, I wouldn't have been able to edit a game or put it that way. No, it sounded fine. It sounded like you'd been through a strenuous 15-inning affair, which was exactly the case. And I felt it too, even with no personal stake in the outcome. Everyone was so nervous. Yeah, it was, whew, teeth gritted, white knuckle. It was just, I mean, it was great.

It was the essence of postseason baseball. It's exactly what you want, if you're not directly. involved. If you're directly involved, you want a game two of the ALCS, where it's just kind of out of hand and relatively anxiety stress-free. I mean, it had its moments early, but then yes, it did settle into being a much easier time after a while. But objectively speaking, that's just the best baseball. And I'm not going to come out and use that game as an example, a proof of why we need to get rid of the zombie runner. I mean,

I think we do, but quite different to have a 15-even game like that in a game five, in a double elimination game in the playoffs than it is just on some random night during the regular season. It doesn't quite carry the same excitement. So that was great. And, you know, 30 years after another legendary Game 5 ALDS victory in Mariners history. And our listener Patreon supporter, Michael Mountain, I think I've cited. this before. He does this way of quantifying the excitement of the playoffs as a whole each year or playoff rounds by just summing the total changes in championship win expectancy. And he found that this division series round was the sixth most exciting by that metric

since the introduction of that series in 1995. But that was heavily driven by Mariners Tigers. And in fact, by Michael's accounting, that was the second most. exciting division series matchup ever, trailing only the Yankees Mariners matchup of 1995, which was even more exciting. So it was appropriate. And yeah, that game, the runs were driven in by Leo Rivas, as you mentioned, Jorge Polanco, who just can't stop getting huge hits, and Mitch Garver. So it was like, you know, Julio did nothing and looked pretty bad in that series. Yeah. Rebounded to hit Homer against Toronto. Cal didn't do a whole lot at the playoff.

in that game. He walked a couple times. He had a hit. Josh Naylor had a good game. He had a few hits. But really, it was unexpected heroes, and it was relievers just holding the line. I think a lot of people, I saw some people describe the later innings of that game after Scoobo was removed as just more of a mess, as just who wants to lose less more so than who wants to win more. They did keep squandering all sorts of chances. They sure did have been. Yeah, runners in scoring position and lead-off runners reaching and not being able to plate them and everything, but it read to me less as some sort of farce or comedy of errors or teams throwing away their chances and more as relievers just stepping up and having huge moments and making incredible pitches. I mean, sure, there were hitters who could have capitalized on those situations, but some of those moments, like pitches that Jack Flaherty made.

made after working himself into a hole and falling behind in counts and then coming back somehow to extend it. And just the heroics of Bessardo, who was just amazing. What an outing. What an outing. He was so pumped up. And so was I just watching him. And then the starters coming in. And yeah, guys who hadn't pitched in that situation or had since A ball, I guess, in Castillo's case. I mean, it was incredible. So to me, it was more about each reliever coming in and ultimately holding the line and saying, no, you shall not pass and just managing to extend it another inning until finally Tommy Kainly had to come in.

And that was that. But man, what a game. I did have a feeling, sometimes you have these guys and they're unflappable. I think that one of the things that we've learned about Jorge Polanco in this playoffs, and, you know, I don't mean to say that he didn't exhibit similar unflappable,

ability when he was a twin. I just wasn't paying his goal of attention to his his degree of flappability was uninteresting to me at that time. More interesting to me now. He just seemed so even keeled. And in a way that is consistent with his regular season affect, you know, I've mentioned his cool sunglasses. He had these cool sunglasses. And he just seems like a cool guy, right? The, you know, I think there is still debate about how meaningful sort of the psyche of the individual hitter is in the postseason, right? We don't want to ascribe too much credit or power to the veteran of the playoffs, right? Because there are guys who perform well in their first postseason all the time.

We get that all the time, right? But also, I do think that, like, it has to be some sort of psychological weight on you as a player. How big a difference that weight makes, how easy it is to bear is probably going to very guy to guy, and obviously it's not the only factor in one's performance, but I would imagine if you had your druthers as a player, you would rather be like chill and even keeled when you're in the box than not, because you can, you're just not worrying about this new variable, right? Or, or you can take Randy Rosarana's approach where it's like, how good is his approach all the time? I don't know. And so he doesn't have to have a postseason approach. He's just

like Randy. He hasn't had his big Randy moment yet. Loeoso, you know, has mostly been okay on the base pass, which is shocking. Never, never have I enjoyed so much such a frustrating base runner as Randy a Rosarina is one thing I've learned about myself in this, the 2025 season. I'm going to go back to Jorge in a second, but it is hard to steal 31 bases and have negative base running value. It is actually, that is hard to achieve. And yet, Randy, he's like, challenge accepted. Anyway, and so it's just like you got Jorge, and he's so unflappable up there. And you have, you know, you'll have starters who are just, they look so centered and even keeled.

And then you have guys where you watch them go through it, right? Jack Flaherty was going through it up there during that game. I don't think of him as a self-talker, which, to be clear, I am a self-talker. So this is not a criticism. This is like when I made fun of Otani for having the Michael Boubley feeling good, and people were like, that's rude. And I was like, no, I listen to Louis Prima, game-recognized game over here. So, you know, he is going through it. Yeah, he was having a whole conversation.

He was doing a podcast on the mount. He was doing a podcast up there. Yeah. I was like, I was trying to get a Spotify deal. And so he's going through it in front of everyone for all of us to see. And then you have Bizarro where you just, when his outing is finally done, when his work is ended and he, you know, he gives way to Castillo. And just the catharsis of that moment is so obvious, right?

this buildup of not only the responsibility that he had, you know, for two innings, six, you know, five outs, right? He has, he strikes out the side in the way that I understand that term in the 13th. And then, you know, he gives up a double in the 14th, but, you know, gets two outs around that. And it's just like, you did it, dude, and you pitched quite poorly in the last game. And it's as if it didn't have, amazing, amazing. And then, then I felt so nervous about Castillo coming in because it's like, oh my God, he hasn't done this since A ball. He hasn't done it in the majors ever. And it was fine, Ben. It was totally fine. He looked completely in command from the first pitch. I also, it was so satisfying for him to have gotten Carpenter to strike out swinging. Like, there were, there were a couple of moments where I indulged a bit of Wu, not Brian Wu, although I look forward to seeing him pitch some time. When Humpy won, I was like, I don't win this game. I think that they have to win. But prior to that, because I think the, I think the second salmon run came in between, right? It came, it was, it was the top and then they did it in between the, right? It didn't precede the 15th. I think it did. Anyway, Humpy winning, I was like, oh, I think they're gonna, because it also just like seemed to inject more energy into the ballpark. Yeah, like the fans were like really back in it in a like big way after that because everybody, everybody loves Humpy.

He has a little life preserver. He's a fish, but he needs a little life preserver, Ben. That's adorable. And then, and then for Carrie Carpenter to go down swinging, it was like, okay, okay, okay, you guys. And then Tommy Canley comes in and I was like, you know, the fact that Jack Flirty pitch before Tommy Canley suggests to me that AJ Hinch does not feel great about Tommy Canley. And then, you know, J.P. Crawford has, days getting long for JP, like in his career. And you can see it. You can see the decline at the plate. And you certainly can see it in the field. And then, you know, he singles. And then Randy gets hit. And then Cal, I thought for a second, Cal had gotten. And then it was like, no, he didn't. But then Randy advances. And you're like, oh, what's going to happen? And then they walk Julio. And you're like, oh, even killed Jorge. And then they did it. And then they did it. And then they. Did it, Ben? They did it. That's wild.

It was. Yeah, it was the kind of game that you could just draft moments from that game and do a whole podcast about it, which we're not far from having done here. Sorry. You could do an emergency episode if you weren't completely incapacitated by that point. I wasn't completely incapacitated. I did not. I did not ask you to do that. But, yes, it was incredible. And the Mariners, look, they earned it. They won four games started by Terrick School. this season. That is quite difficult to do. I would not say that they beat Scoopal four times, but they managed to triumph against the Tigers in four games started by Scoopal. That's tough. So it was kind of incredible. You have inspired me to do an impromptu step last year because you said

that it's hard to have negative base running value if you steal 30 plus bases. That is true. It has been accomplished by AL or NL players, 74. times in history, which is not a whole lot as a fraction of 30 steel seasons or all seasons. And Randy Rosarena has accomplished, if we can call it an accomplishment. He has done it twice. And in fact, this season was not his worst 30-plus steel base running runs, according to Fancraft's season. That was 2022 with the raise.

The worst base-running season by a 30-plus bag swiper was another Mariner. Harold Reynolds in 1988. That sounds right. Yeah, who was almost five runs below average with 35 steals. Anyway, Stap blast. Humpy ran, they did the salmon run in between. It was in between. It was the inning break in the 50th.

Okay. Important clarification. Yeah. And we got to get the sequence of these legendary events, so just already locked into Seattle lore. Got to keep that straight. Got to keep it straight. I feel bad that we're giving such short shrift to,

the other series that wrapped up in five games because look, Brewer's Cubs, it just wasn't that great a series. It went five, which is normally the hallmark of, oh, this is close, this is competitive. But the individual games just were not all that interesting.

Right, yeah. Yeah, and so we talked plenty about Toronto beating the Yankees. We talked a lot about how the Phillies Dodgers series ended. And we've talked a ton about the Mariners and Detroit, but this one just drew the short straw, not just conversationally, but in terms of entertainment value, those things are

related. That's why we haven't talked as much about it. Some of those games overlapped with other games, which I think is part of it. But I watched most of that series. There just wasn't that much to say about it. There wasn't that much controversy. There weren't that many lead changes late. There was just a lot of early scoring. So ultimately, I just don't have a ton of takes about that series, but I guess Cubs fans probably don't care to dwell on it anyway, and Brewers fans will talk about you in just a second and your team. So I guess we can move on, and maybe we can talk about the ALCS since there is no game on this day that we were recording, and since there have already been two. And yeah, there was this brief reprieve after the Mariners win and

advance, and I'm sure there was a euphoric feeling. Ah, we were spared, stay of execution, But, oh, no, now we have to play in less than two days, right? And we have to travel across the country, and we have to play a better rested team, a team that just put on a clinic in the ALDS against the Yankees. And no problem, evidently, just no problem whatsoever. I mean, the way it started in game one, it looked immediately like, uh-oh, there's a hangover here for the Mariners because, you know, first pitch, thrown to the Blue Jays,

George Springer goes deep. And the Mariners just got into tons of trouble. It wasn't even just that, but they were making Miller throw so many pitches, right? Because, oh my gosh, loud contact, deep plate appearances where he ended up walking people and losing them and just racked up like 20 pitches and had very little to show for it.

And you're thinking, man, if only Wu could have started this game, that would have been quite clutch. And I'm sure if he had been able to, they probably would have had him do that. And then as it turns out, that was it. That was like all the offense that the Blue Jays managed to muster on that day. They had one hit, one single in the second. And that was it. No hits for the rest of the game.

Suddenly, Bryce Miller playoff hero. And the Mariners just make it happen again. And then in game two, they jump all over Trey Savage, who. had no hit the Yankees for five and a third and looked like the new hotness, the rookie sensation not named Cam Schlittler in these playoffs and not named Jacob Mizrowski or Chad Patrick or all the other rookies at the pitchings. But he immediately looked hitable. And the Mariners got on him. And yeah, Logan Gilbert was not good Gilbert. And it was a little dicey there at first.

But then, you know, Blanco did his thing again and other guys and Julio hit a home run. And suddenly there was a pretty wide margin there. And the Bouges are in some pretty deep trouble now. Yeah. It's not insurmountable, but it has not been surmounted in quite some time in this specific scenario where you go down O2 in a best of seven in the championship series and the two that you lost were at home. So you lose home field advantage and the two games.

It's tough to come back from, not impossible, but plus the Mariners have the starting pitcher advantage on paper at least the rest of the way, it seems like. So everything's coming up Mariners at the moment. Now I feel a different kind of nervousness. I'm having to grapple with the degree to which superstition is a part of my, like, belief structure because objectively they are in a terrific position here. As you said, you know, they have those two games banked. They get to go home now. I will be curious to see how the ballpark feels, you know, Toronto is on the other side of the country. But Blue Jays fans in

British Columbia tend to travel quite well, although earlier this year they did not because of broader sort of geopolitical stuff. That series was less heavily attended by Blue Jays fans than is typical. So I wonder what the org is doing on that front, although playoff tickets sort of sell early, so maybe

it's less of an issue. But, you know, a home field, sure, but a contested home field often, they get to sort of reset from a pitching perspective, which is good. Gilbert was clearly fatigued, really gutted through

I did not imagine that they were going to get so many innings out of him candidly. And then, you know, obviously with the run scoring, it didn't super matter, but he was not sharp. The Velo was down. The movement on his pitches was down. The spin was like everything was depressed relative to his season norms. So not super great from him, but enough. And then they got to preserve, because of the run scoring, they obviously got to reserve their other sort of highest leverage bullpen arms, although they didn't, they got some guys in there, you know. But this was a game where you were like, yeah, put Carlos Vargas out there.

Let's finally see Emerson Hancock. Like, you know, this is the kind of thing. So they get to do all of that. And you're like, oh, okay, good. But you just feel nervous because you never, you never done it, Ben. How can you not feel nervous? Sure. Because they've never done it before.

They've never, they've never done it before. But, yeah, I think that I'm not going to count out a Blue Jays team that has Vladimir Carrower Jr. I'm not going to count out a Blue Jays team with George Springer. My hope was that Seattle will come out of that two-game set in Toronto having split. So they've dramatically exceeded expectations. For Miller to have done what he did in game one on short rest is so remarkable. Yeah, that was interesting. They had him on the ropes.

It looked like. I was thinking like, is he going to make it out of this? inning. Right. There was, there was a stretch where it seemed like he, he might not even complete the frame. And then you're, you're like, oh, God, what does that do to their pitching the rest of the way? Like, this could really be a problem for them. And then he, he settled in. And it was gritty. I mean, he, he got hit hard. He, for the first couple innings of his outing, not like a single whiff to be had, you know, he was just not, they were on it. Even if, even if they weren't putting it in play.

And then Cal, and then Horhe. Just really gritty and remarkable time. I do want to also make sure we are remembering how much Cal is catching. And he hit that home run. Like Sam Dykstra from MLV.com noted that he, you know, he caught every frame of that 15 inning game. he caught like 200 some odd pitches like two days prior and he's out there catching again i didn't care

for the part of game two where it looked like he was dinged up a little bit there was a lot of funny stuff that happened in that game too you know like nailer seemed like he was compromised and then he had a home run so jokes on me the ball hits aohani oswaras just like hanging out on the dugout step and you're like is it going to cost the mariners a base this is this is going to cost them a base because the ball got away from Jimenez, and then it hits A.ohenio, and it's like, oh, well, is it actually going to go on the dugout and put him on second?

And then they had to do a review. And I was like, oh, my God, there's a tree down in our yard. And it was a very tense couple of minutes for me personally. Yeah. Well, the Mariners whole staff threw 100 pitches in game one. So that's a nice little break for Cal, just, you know, the fewest pitches thrown by a team in a postseason win since 2018. So that's a little bit.

of a breather. That's the closest caliber comes to a breather, except for an actual off day, which doesn't take, but the schedule sometimes affords him this month. So, yeah, the Bouges went from being on absolutely everything in that Yankee series.

And, you know, the apple of John Smoltz's eye, and combining contact and power, which they do. They did all season, but not to that degree. And suddenly, yeah, the hot streak just doesn't always translate from one series to the next or one game to the next. And

those first few batters of game one, you're thinking, oh, this is completely carrying over. They're just picking up right where they left off. And then suddenly that aggression swinging early in the count, making contact, it was not being rewarded. It was translating into one, two, three, eight pitch innings a few times in a row. And, you know, that'll happen when you're a team that puts it in play. And sometimes good things happen, as the saying goes. but sometimes they don't, you know? And it's, man, I don't know if you were even really listening to the commentary on the broadcast or whether you were just kind of tuning it out or in some sort of mental fog where nothing

was really registering during the 15 inning game. But I kind of enjoyed the commentary on that game, just like, you know, the wackiness of having Prisinski and Wainwright when Wainwright actually got a word in edgewise. Yeah. That three-man crew with Adam Amin was the third, the play-by-play, and it was just kind of fun. Like, it led to a lot of memes, of course, because Persinski was pleading for buntz on basically every plate appearance. It was so funny. So I go back and forth on that booth.

I like Wainwright, although I think Adam Wainwright at one point suggested, like intentionally walking the winning run. And we're like, maybe don't, though. I think that's kind of a bad idea. Well, Pat Murphy might do it. But I'm sure issuing a whole lot of free passes these days. So it doesn't always work out so well. I don't know.

I was okay with it. I was like, this game is ridiculous. Sure, they should bunt. Definitely they should bunt. The energy was good. The quality of the analysis was lacking, I would say. Variable, really variable. But I'm not really looking for quality analysis.

Yeah. You know, if that happens great, but you can get that elsewhere or supply it yourself. But I just want people who recognize, like, they knew what was happening. They understood the moment. And they rose to it in terms of just acknowledging that something special was happening and that this game was wild and weird and wow and constantly noting just how much fun it was. And, yeah, it was kind of laughable with the constant bunting talk. the constant calling for any other pitch

but a slider even though the Mariners were just going to throw sliders, sweepers just nonstop. It was amazing. It was like a pretty remarkable I would love to read the advance report they had for that. Because like it was so obviously a strategy and I'm only more for them. But it was funny.

It was just like, no, I think they're probably going to spam sliders because that's what they There's spam and sliders. That's the thing. Yeah. So I enjoyed the atmosphere. I enjoyed the mood of that booth. In contrast to John Smaltz, which I just, I still find him to be a downer most of the time.

He is such a drip. It is. Even when he's celebrating something. Yeah. Which he was with the Blue Jays, bats and their offensive approach and everything, which absolutely was worthy of praise. Sure. But it was very much kind of in contrast.

to this is how you're supposed to hit. This is how teams used to hit. They don't do it anymore because baseball is a fallen sport. You know, it's like even when he's celebrating something, it's as a means of denigrating everything else, really. And so the whole thing is his hobby horses. And he also just doesn't supply the same energy that the goofy guys were giving me, which is what I want.

I want some goofiness unless you're giving me like top-tier analysis. And every now and then, Smaltz might say something in sightful. Like, he knows a lot about pitching, clearly, but I just, I don't feel like he's blowing my mind with the quality of his analysis, and it just does not make up for how much of a wet blanket he can be. And I hear this from so many other people. It seems to be kind of a consensus in our world, in our bubble, and yet he's on everything. He's been broadcasting for years and years. He's on their national crew. Like, there must be some data to suggest that people like him, right, unless he's.

He's just kind of a personal favorite of some network executive, but I just, I don't get it. Which we always have to allow for. The best you can hope for is like a neutral smoltz game, you know? I don't recall a time where he seems like he has seemed like he was ever having fun, except when he was like eating turkey yesterday. Other than that. Also, like, okay, sorry, I'm going to give a little turkey commentary. You can't just give them turkey, just turkey. You have to have sides. Like, what? You're just going to give them dry turkey, no gravy, just dry anyway. It's not the most appetizing meat. There's a reason why a lot of people eat it once a year and with copious condiments and

sides and things to douse it in. Yeah, stuffing, dressing, whatever you want to call it. So there's that part of it. But yeah, you only ever really get a neutral smoltz. That's the ceiling at this point. And it is particularly galling. It stands out when the approach that he is denigrating is the one that is currently winning the baseball game, right?

Like, that's the part of it that I always find so flummoxing. Like, I do think that the Blue Jays, it's nice when a team has like a, quote, unquote, balanced offensive approach. I like to see a mix of contact in power. I think that every study we've seen on this question demonstrates, though, that, you know, being a home run dependent team does not present an obstacle to you in the postseason. Indeed, those teams tend to do a little bit better because hits are just hard to come by in October. We talked about this before. Seattle is at this juncture, like an extreme example of home run dependence. Part of that is that they have a guy who hit 60 during the area. Like, they have two, between two dudes, they have, you know, they have a hundred home run hitter. Right. But, you know, they had that graphic up on the screen yesterday that, like, something like 50% of their runs have come via the long ball.

I think only the Yankees had a higher Gia number. That's what Judge Sheen dubbed it years and years ago, the percentage of your run scored on homers. And I think the Mariners might have even been number one after their midseason moves after they picked up Nailer and Suarez, et cetera, they were even more home run reliant. And so I think that if you want to make a case for an aesthetic preference for contact and small ball, I'm not going to begrudge you an aesthetic preference, right? And I think that it is good to have some amount of diversity. Like, you know, if you like that stuff, like you're really happy the brewers are in the CS, right? Because they, not that they don't hit home runs, but they, they are a contactee, base, runny, team, right? That plays to the strengths of their guys. We always talk about the, you know, the Orioles having like a bunch of the same dude. I think we're sleeping on the brewers in that respect. But, but so all of that to say, like, it would be one thing if the approach that he is so flummoxed by, so offended by was also losing. But when that, when it's not, it's not, it

just seems ridiculous. It seems so obstinate, right? Like, I'm sorry, John, but you're watching a team that is, you know, making its way in the game you're literally calling via the home run and you're being a crab ass about it. Like, what is the, what is your understanding of this? And it, it is so funny, though, that he is that way. And then, like, it's, it seems clear to me that John Smoltz, I think he even said this. Like, he thinks the Cow Raleigh should be the MVP, which is so funny, because I'm like, what do you, do you know what Cal does? I mean, he also plays good defense.

So there's that. But it's like, you know, you have this game where, like, Julio hits a three-run shot, and Polanco hits a three-run shot, and Nailor attacks on a home run late. And the team that didn't manage to do that, the team that had, I think, what, one extra a base hit in that game yesterday? Yeah. You know, you do have to, you do have to generate offense in one of the most reliable ways to do that is to hit a home run, you know?

Mitch Garver hit a triple, that's right. I forgot about that. That's great. Good for you, Mitch. He always looks so relieved when he gets a hit. I'm like, you're really going through it, buddy. I'm glad for you. Yeah.

And it's, you know, you could say, well, just mute him or, and sometimes I resort to that. But I do find that even if I don't love the broadcast crew, I just, I like having the commentary on. I do too, yeah. And part of it is just so that you have something in the background. If you're not glued to every pitch, you can still follow what's happening. You can get those audio cues and know when to look up. And also, the ballpark environment at these games has been fantastic.

Obviously, the Mariners fans absolutely showed up. And as the broadcast noted, just rarely seemed to sit down in the 15 inning game. Oh, yeah. And the Blue Jays crowd was loud when it had a reason to briefly be, right? And so you want to hear that. Now, if you could do the ballpark sound and not get the commentary, then maybe that would be worthwhile. But if it's either silence or having all of the sound and everything that comes with it, good or bad, I'm going to opt for the commentary. And all I want is for it not to annoy me.

I don't need for it to just elevate the game. The game is good enough. all you have to do is not bring it down, not distract me. That's all I want. That's all I ask. And we've talked about this before. You know, I think that folks who view the game through an analytical lens can sometimes get a little precious about their expectations of the broadcast, especially in the postseason where you are attracting the broadest possible audience. I have friends who I follow on social media primarily for other things, and they are, like, hooked on this Mariners team. They are in the weeds on this Mariners team.

And so sometimes they will post things that betray that they are, at best, a casual baseball fan, right? Like, they will express frustration that a pitching change hasn't happened. I'm like, well, he does have to face three guys. Like, they're, you know, like, so you have this very broad audience. And I think that having a former player in the booth can be really great in those situations. And they do have insight into baseball. And they have insight into the game. And they can communicate stuff about the experience of that moment potentially that, like,

is just going to hit differently than it would if it's someone who's never played, which isn't to say that there isn't also a role for, you know, the sort of non-biased. player analyst or non-player play person, you know, I think Joe Davis does a good job. Sometimes he can get a little precious a narrative, but, and I don't know if he knows how to carve a turkey.

But, like, he's good in there. But if you want a former player, give me someone who is stoked on the game as it is currently constituted. And there are a lot of those people. Like, it's, even if they, even if they aren't, like, super-analics,

even if they have an aesthetic preference for small ball you can have all of that and still be like delighted by baseball and smells just seems over it and i'm like surely you have enough money that you don't have to keep doing this like just just go golf be happy yeah he doesn't seem like he's having a good time out there so i just find the whole thing very perplexing and i you know it is hard not to think that this is about him playing golf with somebody and i think that there are are a lot of, I wish that there were easier sort of alternatives for folks.

Like, maybe you have an MLBTV that has an unblacked out login. And so this is easy for you to do because you can just layer the radio over the broadcast. But like, it would be nice if they could make it easier, particularly for fans of the team, to hear their crew in these moments. You know, we, we default to the national guys or you're a Dodgers fan and you get both. But like we default to the national guys come playoff time. And that's fine. But I also think that we're missing something. You know, we really. Very much so. Yeah. Even if the national guys are good, it's still just, it's not

the same because they're broadcasting for a big tent of people who have not watched this team all season. Right. And so you're just battered with the same stories over and over and reminders about how Cal Raleigh hit 60 homers this season and just things that if you are following the team all season long, as a lot of the people watching these teams are, they know. They could tell you in their sleep. And so it's sort of tiresome to have to be subjected to that as if you're just hearing it for the first time. I mean, I want baseball to be accessible. I want people to bandwagon baseball teams in October. I want people to be able to get on board and have their hands held and be caught up quickly, but it would also be nice if there were an option to say, listen to Jason

Benetti called Tigers games if you're still watching the Tigers. So speaking of my hobby horses that I get cranky about, not as cranky as Smolts, hopefully. Did you catch when Victor Robles in game one of the ALCS, he misplayed a ball while holding his outfield positioning cards in his Now, many people informed me that this happened if I had not already known. I was tagged by plenty of people. Good looking out, everyone. But, yeah, I don't know if this was why he misplayed this ball, but he was studying the alignment card. And so he, I guess, got a late break on this ball hit by Santander.

And he just, he had the card in his mouth and the ball clanked off his glove and went by him. And so Santander motored into seconds. Yeah. That was amusing. Yeah. I think the combination of the card and then also, you know, the surface there played so fast. Yeah. So that combo, it was just like, oh, no, Victor, no.

But yeah, as soon as that happened, I was like, oh, we're going to get emails about this. Yep. Okay. So in the Dodgers Brewers series in game one, of course, we have to talk about the play. The weird wild play that satisfied everyone's desire to see something they've never seen before in a baseball game. Yeah, this was so weird. It's a close game and it's a decisive play. It ends up being two to one.

And it's, you know, the fourth inning. And no one knew what to make of this. Yeah. Obviously. It's, you know, crushed by Max Muncie to the wall would have been a home run in. nine parks, I think, Stachas said. And Salfreelik catches it, almost, but not quite. It goes off his glove, it hits the wall, then he catches it, but of course, that does not count.

Now, this was almost a fart bat, right? Yeah. This was, he almost propelled this ball over the wall because, you know, it almost hit the yellow line. And so it came, I mean, it hit the yellow line. It almost went over the yellow line. And so he could have propelled this into being a grand slam, but that didn't quite happen. So the brewers luck out there, and then they continue to luck out because Freelink screwed up, essentially. I mean, it was a tough play, of course, high degree of difficulty.

But this worked out perfectly for them. If he had made a better play on this ball, it would have worked out worse for them. Right. Because it ends up being a double play. If he had caught it cleanly, now it could have been even worse, of course, as I just mentioned, he could have turned it into a home run. But if he had caught it, then one run would have scored because there would have been a tag up and it would have been a sacrifice fly. And that didn't happen. So instead, he starts a double play that took a while to actually sort it out.

Like once the dust settled, we had to get a review, we had to just all kind of consults with each other and umpires with each other. What was that exactly? Freelik said after the game, I didn't really know what happened. I really had no clue what was going on until like an inning later when I could see the replay. And he was directly involved in the play. And his facial expression accurately conveyed that he had no idea what was happening. I mean, that was exactly what his face, that was the signal his face was sending there. It ends up being scored an 862 fielder's choice grounded into double play.

The scoring alone is an interesting conversation. Yes. So the OI Sports Bureau said there had never been an 862 double play in the postseason. The last one in a regular season game was April 16, 2004, in the fifth inning of a game between the Cubs and the Reds where Sammy Sosa hit a ball to Ken Griffey Jr. who caught it and started a double play. And Todd Walker was thrown out at the plate. So these are the names. this is how long it has been. You know, it's a 1-0 pitch,

and so it bounces off his glove, and then the ball comes in, and I guess William Contreras was kind of the hero of this play because he actually kind of understood what was happening. What was happening. That there was a force at home,

and he caught it as if he was... And then Durbin was like, come here, come here, get me, get me, okay. Yeah, and then they got the out at third also. And so this just kind of worked out perfectly. Ortiz cuts off the throw, Tereng is telling him where to throw, and he's watching, and Teasca Hernandez is just like, I don't know what he was doing, exactly. Honestly, I don't know what any of the Dodgers-based runners were doing.

Like, no one covered themselves in glory on the basis. If they hadn't gotten that one of those outs, it sure looked like Muncie and Edmund got, you know, mixed up. So they might have had another out there because he didn't retag. we got a question or a comment from listener, Patreon supporter Chris, who said in light of Teoska Hernandez's tagging technique opening up an 862 double play, do you think base running errors should be officially scoreable? It seems unfair for the box score to credit Max Muncie with that. So, yeah, as a number of people pointed out, this goes down as a grounded into double play, which seems to make no sense on the surface because the ball was not. hit on the ground. It was hit very far in the air. And I get why you can't call it a like flew into

flyed into a double play because Freelick didn't catch the ball. Catch it. Yeah. They asked the official score, Tim Modriscoll, who was there to sort of like explain why this is. And here I'm quoting from a Jason Stark piece in The Athletic. It's a ground ball double play, he said, because once the ball hit off the glove and off the wall, the ball wasn't caught. Then there was a force out at home and a force out at third. And because the ball wasn't caught in the air, it becomes a, quote, ground ball. And here I'm reading Jason, we asked if you understood the irony in that, he couldn't help but laugh, but he had more explaining to do saying there was no other way he was allowed by proper baseball authorities to categorize it. When you

fill in your official scorers sheet, you can't say, yeah, it was half caught, deflected, grab in the air. It has to say ground into double play. Yeah, it's weird. And I emailed, a listener, our anonymous source sometimes for official scoring questions, who is an MLB official scorer, to ask just, what would you have done or why can't you call it something else? And he said, a scorer's nightmare. So here's the deal. Because Freelike doesn't catch the ball as it hits the wall after making contact with the glove, the outs are made elsewhere.

I talked with all of my peer veteran scorers in my city, and none of us would have gotten this correct in real time. because the outs are made, that doesn't include a catch. The system only allows for scoring this a ground ball, as you just said. Therefore, the oddest-looking GIDP in history. I could see some rule modifying as a result of this attention in the off-season, but I've had similar plays on line drives that are knocked down and hidden a way where two outs are made. Those are odd grounded into double plays, too.

It's certainly unfair to Muncie, but this is how the MLB rules account for this type of play. if this type of double play is made by having the ball hit something in fair territory. GIDP, however odd, is how it is scored. And I guess it's mostly semantics, but it does seem like there should be some provision made for this. It's sure tough luck for Muncie, you know. Yeah. I mean, you know, even just to say hit into double play instead of grounded would make it seem less discordant visually. But also couldn't you just say something like,

you know, someone flies into a force-out and then someone else is out at another base, right? Like Max Muncie flies into a force-out, and then you say who threw where, and then Teosker's out at home and Will Smith's out at third. Like, maybe you don't even have to call it a certain type of double play. There are other plays like that where two outs are made that I don't think the play log says double play. Anyway, it was super weird and credit to anyone who understood what was happening. in the moment. Which sure did not include Sal Freilik, who... Right, not at all.

Sal has resting confused face. Yeah, he's got a little bit of Bellinger going on. Yeah, like, no, but it's more actively confused. And I don't mean to suggest that he is confused all the time, simply that he has the look of a man who is, like, trying to decipher, you know, traffic rules in a foreign country. And it's most notable when he's in the box. where he just has this, like, worried, confused expression.

He just, you know, I, again, I'm not trying to give him the business. This is another place where I feel a sense of kinship. And not just because he's, like, deeply Italian, but an expressive face. You know, he's just got a really expressive face. And the thing he seems most keen to express is confusion. But, like, it was just the bewilderment of him gesturing. Like, what, like, and he said after the game, he's like, I had no idea what was going on, but I saw everyone else leaving the field, so I did too. And it was just like, yeah, Sal, like, sure, buddy, like, no one knew, no one knew, except, except seemingly contraris.

So good for him. The umpires got it right. I mean, there was a, there was a conference and review and everything, but yeah, they didn't screw it up and mess it up in the moment. And, yeah, the quotes about the players, like Dave Roberts said, it happened fast. I didn't know he didn't catch it. And talking about Teo, we go over that rule. Teo knows the rule. I think right there he had just a little bit of a brain fart,

appreciating that when it does hit the glove, you can tag there, but then he tagged, did it correctly, then saw he didn't catch it, and he went back. That was the mistake, but he owned it. And after that, there's nothing else you can do about it. And Will Smith said he didn't know what happened until after he was called out, whereas Contreras said that he had a good view of it from where he was, and he could tell what it happened right away. Quinn Priester said, I was thinking that's probably the luckiest play I've ever seen from the pitching side.

Realistically, that ball could be three runs and probably should have been if we don't have Gold Glover, South Relic out there. We play defense. It's part of our identity, which is true, but it's almost odd to cite that as an example of good defense because he didn't make the catch, of course. So it's, yeah, it was just one of those random. I mean, we talked about the randomness of baseball and the randomness of playoff baseball. And that was sort of an exaggerated illustration of that maxim, but it's as illustrative an example as any of just one little, you know, game of inches, ball bounces differently or is caught cleanly or not, and everything works out differently. But, yeah, I don't even know how much credit to give to the brewers there. It's just, you know, ultimately they made the most of it, but you can't even say it was really a cleanly executed play that they planned.

from the start. So that was weird, and that's a consequential play. And of course, you know, Freddie Freeman hit a home run too. And I mentioned Pat Murphy's proclivity of late for just handing out lots of free passes. I understand not wanting to face Shohei Otani, even though he hasn't hit much this postseason. But, you know, you're walking him to get to Muky Betts. Mookie Betz also a pretty good player. And you just put so much pressure on a pitch. or when you load the bases and there's just no margin for error there and it's just so easy to walk in a run, which we've seen happen more than once in this postseason. So I probably would not keep pursuing that strategy, but yeah, it has been backfiring at times.

I think don't, I think don't intentionally walk people. No, not if you can help it unless, you know, if you're setting up a double play in a certain do-or-die situation, okay. But otherwise, yeah, even if it's Otani, just be careful. Yeah, it just, it doesn't, you feel so tense doing it. And even, and here's maybe a, this is a, this is a vibes-based argument. So I want to acknowledge that it's not, you know, rigorous. But it's like when the Phillies intentionally walked Otani, I didn't feel good about that.

I felt bad about it. And Duran was on the mountain. And Abner Uribe is a good reliever. but he's not yonderant. And so if it feels bad when a better reliever is on them, yeah, if it didn't do it the other time, you know? Yeah, yeah. Especially because you have such a great, like, okay, maybe it's a home run.

Then he got you. But like if you put some ball in play, your team, they're going to, they are going to field it. They're good at that. Yeah, the Brewers, Hannah Kaiser noted in the bandwagon that both the Brewers and the Blue Jays, another point of commonality between these two teams. We've talked about how they're both good defensive teams. They both won the team gold glove, which I think many people do not know is a thing, but it is team gold gloves, so Brewers, Blue Jays.

And, you know, they can glove it. And we've also seen, and I'm writing about this, and I'm not the only one to note it, but it is striking just how many starters have been pressed into service in relief. which is not a new tactic, but it has been employed really more than we've seen in any season in the wildcard era, like 2017 was pretty close. But it's mainly or mostly the Dodgers who have been doing a ton to try to make up

for having a bad bullpen and having excess of starters. But it's not just the Dodgers. I mean, it's both of the teams in the NL series because the Brewers are doing it plenty too with Mizraowski and Chad Patrick. And then we're also seeing it in some other series, too, and, you know, it's not always like the shutdown guy in the late innings like a Roki Sasaki style. Sometimes it's more of a bulk guy, but Quinn Priester does it too.

You know, the Blue Jays did it with Eric Lauer, with Chris Bassett, even the Mariners got in on that action with Emerson Hancock. And so everyone's really putting their starters into the bullpen. And it's just been a high percentage of all postseason innings, but especially relief. innings that have been handled by pitchers who were primarily starters during the regular season. And to good effect, in many cases, in some cases, not so much. And we did finally see some faltering from Rokey. Yeah. This was, you know.

Because guess what? If you don't swing at it, it's not always in the zone, Ben, you know? Yeah, right. They listen to me. He walked a couple and the command was not the best. And as people have been pumping the brakes a bit. and saying, yeah, he's looked incredible and he's set out of his new closer and everything,

but pretty short track record of him being in this role, having success in this role, and remember how bad he looked early in the season. And, yeah, he looked a little shaky in that outing. And who knows if it's fatigue or just a better approach? We did mention that the brewers, they're good at plate discipline and not swinging and holding off, and maybe that's part of it too.

And then Blake Trinan comes in and just barely manages to hang on and get that save. And it's funny, I wonder how it feels to be Bryce Turing and have a bunch of people wishing that you had been hit by a pitch instead of ultimately striking out after you contorted yourself to get out of the way. It wasn't like the most extreme case I've ever seen of someone trying to get out of the path of a pitch. And you are supposed to do that, obviously, not just as a means of self-preservation, but by rule, you are supposed to make a real effort to get out of the way.

And, you know, it wasn't like the most inside pitch ever, but I guess it was a natural reaction and maybe he misjudged that it was a breaking ball and it was just reflexive and he got out of the way. I find it hard to fault someone for not taking one for the team, so to speak. But I guess given the way that that played appearance in game ended, then of course you wish that he had a hopefully not too painful plunk that would have tied the game. Yeah, I do. I was like, oh, you got to lean into that one, buddy. You got to lean into that one, Bryce.

Yeah. Yeah, that was too bad. I feel like instinct just takes over in that moment. Yeah, I think so too. I was like, oh, God, he's going to get hit. And then it's going to be like Nathan Lucas in the J's where, like, it would have, I feel like it would have gotten him right on the knee. and that hurts badly.

It's funny how much Murphy has been playing up the underdog aspect of things. It's like... Relax. He's a character. I enjoy him. He's always quotable. But yeah, he's really been embracing that mentality or that persona. And that's just something you do.

And maybe it fires your guys up. And it's something you say to the press. But really, it's maybe a message directed at your clubhouse. Now, I guess there's a fine line because you don't want to pretend that you're such an underdog that you feel overmatched or something, like, oh, we don't even belong here. Because it's really, like, looking at how these two teams performed in the regular season, the Brewers are not an underdog at all. They've won the most games in the majors this year. And sure, the Dodgers today are scarier than they were for much of the season. But even so, the Brewers were arguably the best team in baseball.

And it is funny, though, so his latest on this subject was, I'm sure that most Dodger players can't name eight guys on our roster. No offense to them, they shouldn't have to know the names, but these are some guys that hopefully they know their names by the time it's over. How many names do we think they actually know? Because he's saying they shouldn't have to know the names. They probably should know the names, actually. If they're reading the scouting reports, then probably they need to know the names. I guess they could just know the numbers or be able to recognize someone on site. But you'd think if you're doing your homework to prep for the series, you would probably

know more than the names of eight guys. And the Dodgers and Brewers played each other six times in July. It's not like this is the World Series. And even the World Series, we have interleague play all season long. So I know that players have a capacity to be oblivious to the existence of other teams to some extent because they're just not watching all those other games because they have games going on at the same time and they're worrying about what they're doing. So they're not, you know, maybe doing the homework that even people who do podcasts about

a team are doing most of the season. But you'd think with all the advanced scouting that gets done and you're preparing for one opponent, I think you'd probably need to know more than eight names. Also, I'm sorry, but like, they won 97 games. this season. Like, it wasn't like this was some plucky wildcard that, that snuck into the playoffs. Like, they had the most wins in baseball this year. So, yeah, if you're comparing payrolls, if you're comparing preseason expectations or even playoff odds, then absolutely the brewers are the underdogs, the little team that could. But at this stage, they're not,

really. And so he's playing that up for effect. And perhaps it's playing well in that clubhouse. if it's not taken as an insults of sorts. But I'm going to give the Dodgers enough credit that they know more than eight players on their playoff opponent. Yeah, I think that that's right. I think that that's right. I am sort of already sick of the Goliath versus David narrative that's happening here because, look, the Yankees lost,

the Yankees are out so at least we can stop talking about the Yankees briefly because there are certain teams that just take up all the oxygen in October. That's just how it is. They have the most fans and just reputations and storied franchise history and payrolls and all the rest of it. And so they're going to get a lot of ink and they're going to get a lot of airtime. And now the Yankees are out of it. The Dodgers are still in it. And they're the only team standing in the way of having a World Series between teams that have not been on that stage for some time.

And, you know, if you had Mariners Brewers, that would be ideal for anyone who wants a friend. time franchise victory, obviously, which, again, we haven't had since 1980 a guaranteed first title for a franchise in a World Series matchup. But even the Blue Chase, it's been more than 30 years now. So, you know, you can start to talk about them in terms of their due or it's been a while. And so, oh, I said it, but you didn't sing it. You missed the cue. I'm glad that you miss your slow on the uptake occasionally, too. Or maybe you just went easy on me this time. No, I got a news alert that DeAngelo died and I was distracted.

Oh, wow. All right, buddy. Pancreatic cancer. It sucks. That's the worst. Oh, well. Sorry to bring us down. You've just brought down the mood in a smolt-esque fashion, but we will attempt to carry on here.

But, yeah, like the whole idea that this is sort of emblematic of baseball's haves and have-nots, which, of course, it is to an extent the Brewers and Dodgers are representative of those camps. But I don't know that it means more than that, really, and I already find it a tad tiresome to be subjected to that. Now, look, if the Dodgers lose and just kind of clear out and let us enjoy teams that we haven't seen on that stage for a while, then I think that would be fun. And I'm sure network executives would rather have the big. stars in the World Series, but it's nice to have new blood, too. And it would be nice to be spared the fretting and hand-rigging that will happen if the Dodgers managed to go back to back here, or even win a pennant, perhaps. But, you know, Jeff Passon, I picked on his use of

must-win the other day, and I think highly of his work in general. But his piece on the NLCS was basically framed this way. Like, the labor battle will swing on the outcome of this series. The headline, which Jeff probably didn't choose, was how a Dodgers-Brewers-NLCS defines MLB's labor battle. And then the lead, which he probably did choose, the first few paragraphs, the winner of the National League Championship series could determine whether Major League Baseball is played in 2027.

Wow. That's a bold opening. You have my attention. accomplished, I guess, but that's a big check to cash in terms of opening lines there. Tough to back that up. This might sound far-fetched, next sentence. Okay, acknowledging that it sounds far-fetched. But then, third sentence, it is not.

Ooh, doubling down. What looks like a best of seven baseball series, which starts Monday as the Milwaukee Brewers host the Los Angeles Dodgers in game one, will play out as a proxy of the coming labor war between MLB and the MLB Players Association. Owners across the game want a salary cap, and if the Dodgers, with their record $500 million-plus payroll, win back-to-back World Series, wait, $500 million plus?

I guess that's counting penalties and such. That's a big number. It will only emboldened the league's push to regulate salaries. The Brewers, consistently a bottom third payroll team, emerging triumphant would serve as the latest evidence that winners can germinate even in the game's smallest markets and that the failures of other low-revenue teams have less to do with spending, then execution.

And the piece goes on to provide the appropriate caveats about how, no, this single series probably will not be to, you know, basically kind of contradicting the hook there. That's, okay, this probably will not actually be the decisive factor in whether we have a work stoppage or whether we lose a season or whether owners want a salary cap. It is certainly true that people will pile on and will make this case. and people will talk about it. And so I guess Jeff is sort of pre-talking about it. He's just getting ahead of what the narrative will most likely be anyway

or the complaints that a lot of people will be making. But, of course, owners have wanted a salary cap forever. For as long as there have been owners, for as long as there's been free agency and a union or a need for a salary cap from the owner's perspective, they want that. They want that now. it's hard for me to imagine

that they will push for it any harder really and you know people understand like there's no way that the outcome of a best of seven which is basically a coin flip and subject to randomness

as we saw with the double play in game one that that should actually decide anything really like who wins this does that tell us all that much I mean we could draw conclusions based on who made it to this point

But whether the Brewers or the Dodgers wins this best of seven does not actually give us much more information in terms of like, does baseball need to be fixed? Is baseball broken? Is it too imbalanced? And it may shape public opinion to some extent, but I kind of doubt that public opinion will actually shape the outcome of that labor battle because I think it's pretty, pretty ancillary. It's, you know, maybe it's like it's on the margins. Maybe it has some influence the way that it's covered, the way that players perceive it and all. But really, the stakeholders here, they have their desires, they have their incentives. Those things aren't going to change based on the Brewers or Dodgers winning one series.

Yeah, I tend to agree with that. The Dodgers remain, right? And Toronto remains. So we have two top five payrolls. And this is just their actual payroll, even. doesn't count the luxury tax stuff, though they're far enough over the third, the last threshold that I think they are in a dollar for dollar tax. So it is close to 500 million if you count their penalties. But, you know, the Dodgers are number one. They're comfortably number one.

Like they, you know, they're 50 million clear of the Mets. But the top five, at least by roster resources, the counting of it, which I tend to think is the best there is, it goes, Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays. And two of those teams are still in it, and two of them have been eliminated, and one didn't even make the postseason. So, like, you know, I'm not trying to give Jeff a hard time. But, like, if this were really motivating owners,

surely they would have to account for the fact that two of those clubs have already been eliminated, right? Two of the top five. surely that would matter too so i just i don't find it persuasive and i think that folks are right to point out that the brewers do not run a significant payroll we had them 22nd in baseball this year again this is just like straight payroll not their luxury tax payroll but like they you know they had a hundred and twenty three million dollars in payroll this year that's not a lot but it's like a lot more than the Marlins who checked in at 70.

So, yeah, they're a small market team, and they are payroll constrained, but I feel like they are, they're still putting, like, a winning team on the field. I don't know. It's just, it was a weird, you can just write a preview, you know what I mean? Like, you can just write a straight preview. You don't have to do this part. It's sort of straining for significance from a single series, which I understand the urge and the pressures to do that.

And, but yeah, it's, we're going to hear enough of this as it is, I'm sure, if the Dodgers advance. And we're going to have a whole other postseason before we get into a potential stoppage. That's the other thing where I'm like, is this, this is the one that's going to make the case what? Just because they happen to go back to back, the fact that they've been in the World Series, like, for the last decade isn't the, you know what I mean? It's just like I don't find it particularly persuasive that this is like the tipping point. I just don't. Yeah, I don't know. I think plenty of people tipped already.

So this will only confirm the feeling. And sure, the Dodgers payroll is a big advantage. And it has certainly been a big buffer for them. And we're seeing now the fruits of that, that they have this excess of starters, this wealth of pitching talent, which was absent for much of the season and has arrived right on schedule. And, yeah, most teams don't have that wealth and don't have that luxury.

And, you know, the other thing that has been said about the Dodgers sort of all season, but has intensified lately, is the notion that they were kind of taking it easy and route to the playoffs. And, you know, there was a comment that was getting some discussion in our Patreon discussion,

group by a defector commenter who described it as them being on battery saver mode, basically for the regular season, which is a fun way of putting it. But it elicited some debate because once you start getting into the specifics of, well, how did they do that exactly? Because the idea of it, I think, is sort of a load management thing, right? Not that they weren't at full strength and health, which is indisputable, but that they were actually taking it easy, right? Like, they were taking their feet off the pedal because they knew that they just had to

make the postseason, and that's all that mattered. But where was that lack of urgency manifesting, really? Like, what specific moves or non-moves or decisions would one point to illustrate that strategy if it was one? And this isn't just uninformed people making this point. Craig Goldstein, Dodgers fan wrote a piece for. BP about this back in September about how the Dodgers are taking the long view and it leads to a diluted on-field product. And I think that's true in a sense. Like I do think the Dodgers

care more at this stage about winning a World Series than they do about winning a division title. Sure. And I think if they end up winning another championship, then they will declare that a successful season, even if they didn't blow everyone away in the regular. season the way some people anticipated that they would. But was that because they decided not to? Or was it because a lot of things went wrong for them? Right. Like they had a lot of pitchers who were legitimately injured unless you think that those were phantom eye elstint or something. And I'm not putting it past the Dodgers to have done that. Sure. But it doesn't make sense from a strategy perspective for them to have done it. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's the other thing.

First of all, it's, you know, it's hard. to question injuries because we don't really know. And these seem to be pretty real injuries in a lot of cases. They're pitchers who weren't performing or had some tangible physical complaint. And, like, you know, yeah, they didn't rush Otani back, for instance. They were taking it fairly easy and had him on a pretty tight leash innings-wise. Was that because they just didn't have the urgency to win in the regular season? Or was it because it was his second elbows?

surgery, and they made a huge investment in him. And maybe it would have been irresponsible to rush him back or to have him have a heavier workload. I don't know. And the other guys, like Snell and Glassnow and all these other guys, have long injury track records, both with the Dodgers and with their previous employers. It's not like that. Kind of came out of nowhere. And I don't know what else you would point to, like Roki Sasaki. I mean, his injury seems sort of nebulous for a while, but his velocity was down. He was pitching poorly, like, in the majors and in AAA, so it wasn't as if they had a fully healthy and effective Roki Sasaki, and they were just sort of sitting on him.

Like, he was actively hurting them when he was in the majors for most of the season early on. So I don't know what you would point to, really, like, maybe not upgrading Michael Conforto's spot. They could have been more aggressive in doing that. And then you're, I guess, faulting the- You torture Craig, you know, like... Yeah, you have to torture Craig somehow.

I have to do it somehow. He can't just have an easy time. It's already so easy to be a Dodgers fan. You're faulting the Dodgers for not flexing their financial muscle even more than they did. Or the way that their bullpen fell apart. Well, that wasn't because they had a lack of urgency. I mean, they spent a ton on their bullpen. They've extended Trinanin.

They got Tanner Scott. They got Kirby Yates. They seem stacked. And then all those guys were bad. So that wasn't. the plan, certainly. And ultimately, even though they survived the Wild Card Series,

I think they would have strongly preferred not to have to play it. Right. Right. Because if you say they care about the World Series, well, if that's close to a point-flip... Yeah, they don't want to play a best of three. They want to avoid that. They do want to win the division. Now, maybe they don't care if they win the division by 15 games

or by two games, but they do want to win it convincingly enough and have a good enough record. that they get that by, and they didn't do that. So I don't know how much that holds water, the idea that they were just sort of sandbagging, taking it easy, and then just flipped a switch, and that was the plan all along.

I mean, yeah, I think they absolutely would have signed up for not having an overwhelming juggernaut season if they got all their guys back for the postseason. So to that extent, that was the plan, and they had the buffer and the financial wherewithal to just carry a bunch of highly-paid, injured guys all season long and still make the playoffs.

Most teams could not do that, absolutely. But was that the plan? Like, from a roster construction standpoint, sort of, because you could anticipate that some of those guys were going to get hurt. But it's not like they could have put a much better team on the field on a day-by-day basis, and they just opted not to.

I didn't get that sense, at least. Yeah, I think that the observation that their payroll affords them wiggle room. And, you know, first and foremost, it affords them tremendously talented baseball players, right? But beyond that, that it affords them redundancy on the roster or the ability to survive and move on from bad signings and that that is an asset to the club is a correct observation to make.

But the idea that this is the way that they would have preferred for that advantage to manifest seems like a misdiagnosis to me, right? Like, I think you're right. They probably don't care in the grand scheme if they win the division by five games or 15, but they would absolutely prefer to win the division, right? They would absolutely prefer to win it decisively enough and decisively enough relative to their other division winners that they are able to rest their guys and have a buy. You know, I think that this club, like, cares about winning the World Series and understands

that to be their project in a much more real way than most other teams, but I think that that probably heightens an appreciation for regular season play rather than diminish it, because I think they understand the value of the buy, and because they are willing to sign guys who have injury concerns. Yeah, it's kind of complex, but yeah, I think there's a distinction between how you construct your roster with some sort of safety net built in because you can afford to kind of carry two pitching staffs worth of pitchers and then how you actually deploy those players as the season goes on.

So I think that's a distinction worth drawing, though perhaps people might say, well, no one else really has the luxury of just having. that much slack built into the payroll and the roster construction that they could have a bunch of things go wrong and still make it here. All of that said, Blake Snell was totally filthy and has been a lot lately. I mean, we praised Terek Scoobble and he was totally dominant, but I'm not sure he was better than Blake Snell was against the Brewers in game one. I mean, when he is on, he's pretty unsurpassed. There are absolutely days and extended stretches where Blake Snell looks like and has been the best pitcher in baseball.

And even as people who have complained about the Blake Snell spectator experience, more than once, I also have to hand it to him for being fairly efficient lately and not nibbling so much, or at least getting the chases, getting the swings, and mowing down these lineups. And being able to go deep into games, which was one of the knoxons now. It was, yeah, he's dominant, but he's so inefficient that he can't go deep into games or he gets hurt a lot. And, yeah, he still gets hurt sometimes. And he still has those days when he's nibbling and it's frustrating. But, boy, lately he has been on.

And he's just really tough to beat on those days. Yeah, I mean, like, no walks, just dominant. And, you know, despite the emergence of Roki, I think that people are right to think that that bullpen is still a vulnerability for them. So for him to go eight is really spectacular. And, yeah, he just was stifling, you know. They didn't really get anything going at all. Okay.

Well, that's our postseason update. It's a lot of non-playoff related news, but we can get to that in the future. We have a whole offseason of podcasts to fill, but there has been managerial movement. We have a new Rangers manager. Skip is a skipper again. He was waiting in the wings as the heir apparent to Bruce Bochy and now Skip Schumacher. A manager again, Mike Schilt has retired seemingly. It was described in a lot of places as retired as the manager of the Padres.

And I was kind of confused because what does that mean? What does that mean? He resigned. But I guess he has also seemingly retired, or at least for now, he is not seeking another job. And credit to him, he, he, he, he, He took that team to the playoffs twice and would have been back for more. And he just said, it's hard being a major league manager. It's a grind.

Yeah. And it was tiring. And he just wanted a break. He said, I was sick a lot. I wasn't feeling good. I was run down. I wasn't sleeping. It's just day-to-day stress.

It's unhealthy. And so now he's going to go have some me time and just be on the beach and good for him. And I guess if he decides that he wants to come back to managing, there will probably be positions for him at some point. And then you had the tigers sort of stealthily revealing that A.J. Hinch had already been extended. I love the reveal of a move after it has been made. Yeah. We got that with Michael Ius.

Yeah. Had it been secretly promoted to Pobo and no one knew about it until many months after the fact. And then there was the tigers dropping that, by the way, we extended A.J. Hitch. I never know. Is that like a testament to the lack of leaking in that organization? Is it a bad reflection on the beatwriters or the people who cover that team for not uncovering that news? Ultimately, I guess it doesn't matter that much when you find out, but it's odd because so many things are reported that second. And then there are other things that we just do not find out about for ages.

I always find it to be kind of funny, too, because it's like, you know, it's not that the extensions mean nothing. They're on the hook for the money if they fire the guy, right? but I just don't view those contracts as necessarily just positive on them getting fired, right? Like if at the end of this, the Orioles decide, Elias isn't the guy, extended or not, they'll just can him, right? Like, and they'll pay out the deal and they'll be content to do it. I'm not suggesting he's going to get fired. But, you know, so it's like, it matters to the guy, and I don't think that it means nothing, but it's not like guys never get bought out.

So it's like, so just announce it. Like, what's the problem? It's such a strange. It's a very odd little thing. But I didn't think that Hinch was really in much danger of not getting extended. Like, they seem to like him quite a bit. Despite the collapse, which they ultimately recovered from entrenched. That would get a lot of guys fired, maybe, but because it kind of had a happier ending, at least.

Yeah. Because of the track record and because of the expectations for the team in the first place and all the rest, yeah. But, you know, I talk about other sports now, and so I did do a segment and hang up and listen today about the James Franklin Penn State buyout for $49 million or whatever it was. So a couple years of a manager or a pobo, you know, that's jump change compared to a college coach who's being let go with that much money due to him. Maybe we'll have more to talk about with Bill Belichick one of these days, though he denies it. Anyway, the only other thing is that Pete Alonzo is seeking a seven-year deal.

sure is. Yeah. Do you think this is going to go any better for him this time around? I don't think so either, really. I don't think so. And I'm so confused because I've seen consternation among some Mets fans about like, you know, don't bring him back the people. I haven't seen anybody react to this with anything like other than good luck with that, buddy. I don't imagine that this is going to happen for him. He had a good season at the plate, but he's still the age he is. still, you know, not particularly incredible first baseman. The back end of a seven-year deal for him at this point is going to be bad. And I feel for Pete Alonzo in terms of like the trajectory of his career was such that he never really, you know, he should take in that extension is what should happen. But having made the decision not to do that, he wasn't really in a spot to like get the big free agent deal. But sometimes that's just how this stuff goes. I don't. think that he is so indispensable to that team that they're going to say, well, yeah, sure, let's sign you up for seven, although maybe they will now that I've said that. But I don't know, you know, I see a lot of Matt's fans very nervous that this is going to happen. I don't think this is going to happen. I don't think anybody thinks this is a good idea. But also, sometimes you just do a little posturing, I guess, I guess. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I've cited the Sam Miller research about. seeking when players seek a certain number of years or a certain dollar figure, what do they

actually get? And it's significantly less, of course, than they are seeking. But yeah, no harm in trying to put a big number out there. No help, perhaps sometimes, too. It wasn't a big help to Pete last time either. He had a better year. And so you'd think he might be better positioned for free agency this year, except now he's a year older. Yeah, that's the thing about it. It's kind of tough because, like, you know, now he's turning 31 in December, and obviously he's still the same sort of profile as a player. Right, so right, right first baseman.

Like, this is not a profile that ages particularly well. He's not good in the field. Right. On the basis, yeah, he's just going to hit, and he hit better. He had to bounce back to basically his 2022 production after a couple of relative down years. But I don't know that he totally changed anyone's mind. It wasn't like a completely different profile or shape to the production or anything. So I don't know.

Part of this, too, is that the Mets have like realities of their roster that they're going to have to grapple with. And maybe not tomorrow. But at some point, they had a lot of guys on that team who are going to be DH only at some point. Most notably among them, Juan Soto. And so if you have Pete, if you bring him back, you're committed to him playing first base and you're not going to get in there. And I just think that you're going to get to a point in his late 30s where he's maybe not playable, at least not in a way that isn't going to potentially produce negative value. I just think it's not going to happen for him. They need to maintain some amount of flexibility in their roster.

and he doesn't allow them to do that. He doesn't seem particularly flexible. Yeah, more flexible than me. It's just kind of playing in the wrong era for a player with his skill set. But I don't know. We'll see. Sam did find that when players sought a certain number of years or dollars, they got the median was 87.5 of that total.

If he got six years instead of seven, you should probably be happy with that. But we will see whether the market will greet him any more warmly than it did. last year. When the season started, remember we were talking about how, oh, it's a new Pied, and he's different, and he's proven all the doubters wrong, and maybe he will go get himself a big deal, and then he sort of settled into being more or less the same guy the rest of the season. Anyway, wish him well. I enjoy him, so hopefully he'll get what he wants. I have a little bit of bad news for you, and it's reminding me of one thing that we do have to talk about, although we can put a pin in it potentially. Apparently, many protein powder

and shakes have a lot of lead in them. So you be careful about inadvertent lead consumption. But remind me that we got to talk about the swole baseball, Blue Jays fan. Oh, yes. There was. You know what that guy? The butt plug guy and the guy behind the butt plug guy.

I wasn't going to bring up the butt plug. I was going to let, I was going to let him go because he. He did cover up the shirt eventually. I think he was probably asked to cover up that shirt. I think the Blue Jays were probably like, hey. Yeah, maybe Or maybe people in his personal life advised him to do that.

I'd be interested in what led to that decision. No, I was talking about the super jacked guy that was right behind him. Man, looming over his shoulder. Yes. Yeah, that man was very large. All right. In case this wasn't clear earlier

when I referred to the team gold gloves, those haven't been handed out for this year. The Blue Jays and Brewers each one in their respective leagues in each of the past two seasons. And they may very well win again this year. Just hasn't happened yet. Also, fun stat on the grounded into double play play from J.J. Cooper of Baseball America, according to Retro-Sheet game logs.

Before NLCS game one, there had been 1,26862 plays. 30 of them were double plays. Zero of them were grounded into double plays. So that really was something no one had seen before. Nothing quite so wacky or controversial in game two, as it turned out, Though there was something unusual in this era, a complete game. Yoshinobu Yamamoto went nine, shut down the Brewers. So much for starters pitching in relief.

The Dodgers didn't need any relievers in that game. First postseason complete game since Justin Verlander in the 2017 ALCS. So 5-1 victory for the Dodgers who go up to Zip in the series. And now both series have started with the road teams taking two in a row. You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash Effectively Wild And signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to keep the podcast going, help us stay ad-free, and get yourself access to some perks. As have the following five listeners, Jordan, Holland Hease, Freak Toes, Bean, and Sam Sorsher, thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the effectively wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams coming soon, prioritized email answers, personalized messages, potential podcast appearances, discounts on merch and ad-free fangras memberships, and so much more.

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for links to the stories and stats we cited today. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with another episode a little later in the week. Talk to you soon. Does baseball look the same to you as it does to me? When we look at baseball, how much do we see? Well, the curveballs bend and the home runs fly. More to the game that beats the eye

To get the stats compiled and the stories files Fans on the internet might get riled But we can break it down On effectively wild