Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2465: Before You Can Say Jack(ie) Robinson

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about the Mariners actually sort of sacrificing Humpy, the historically compressed standings at the start of the season, top prospects (and veteran relievers) pushing for promotions, the solution to a Kutter Crawford mystery, a faux-froyo con, Jazz Chisholm Jr.’s rules confusion, Cade Winquest’s quest, and more. Then (57:18) they talk to Negro Leagues Baseball Museum president Bob Kendrick about Jackie Robinson Day, the importance of telling stories about Black baseball in an anti-diversity climate, Bob’s work on MLB The Show, the MLB pipeline for African American players, showcasing the surviving Negro Leagues ballparks, the NLBM’s expansion plans, baseball in Kansas City, Ichiro Suzuki’s visits to the Museum, and more. Audio intro: Josh Busman, “Effectively Wild Theme” Audio interstitial: Austin Klewan, “Effectively Wild Theme” Audio outro: Ian Phillips, “Effectively Wild Theme” Link to “Jack Robinson” idiom Link to Humpy clip Link to Humpy plushy Link to MLBTR on Imai Link to standings data Link to leaguewide offensive stats Link to baseball drag graph Link to previous Crawford banter Link to 2025 Crawford story Link to new Crawford scoop Link to “hose” baseball slang Link to FG top prospects Link to Parker collision story Link to froyo feature Link to Jazz story Link to Jazz clip Link to Jazz play Link to Boone story Link to Kobayashi Maru wiki Link to Brebbia post Link to MLBTR on Kimbrel Link to Yankees/Mets losses stat Link to Emanski drills video Link to frequency illusion wiki Link to MLBTR on Winquest Link to phantom ballplayer wiki Link to Jackie Robinson Day wiki Link to Robinson story removal Link to MLB “diversity” story Link to new MLB The Show mode Link to MLB at Rickwood Field wiki Link to surviving ballparks story Link to East-West Classic news Link to % of Black players data Link to NLBM expansion page Link to sportswriters/Marriott story Link to Chiefs stadium story Link to Royals stadium story Link to John Donaldson EW episode Link to donate to the NLBM Link to Swanson quote Link to Episode 305 wiki Link to Lorenzen note Link to MLBTR on Pham  Sponsor Us on Patreon  Give a Gift Subscription  Email Us: [e-mail]  Effectively Wild Subreddit  Effectively Wild Wiki  Apple Podcasts Feed   Spotify Feed  YouTube Playlist  Facebook Group  Bluesky Account  Twitter Account  Get Our Merch! var SERVER_DATA = Object.assign(SERVER_DATA || {}); Source

For the 2,000 episodes retrospectively filed, and at each new one we still collectively smile, that's effectively wild. That's effectively wild. Hello and welcome to episode 2465 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs, presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of the Ringer, joined by Meg Rally of FanGraphs. Hello, Meg. Hello.

So last time we potted, you called for the ritual sacrifice of Mariner's mascot Humpey. And you kind of got your way. Kind of got my wish. It wasn't Wicker Man style. But Hapsies. Humpty got eaten by a bear, or at least a bear attempted to eat Humpty on Humpty's plush giveaway night, no less. I just want everyone to, like, think about the sentence that you just said.

and like think about trying to explain that moment to someone who doesn't have any. I like someone stumbles upon our podcast. First of all, hi. Why are you here? You know, welcome, welcome, welcome. But also, how did you find your way here? What weird turn in the iTunes charts led you? It's not even iTunes anymore, is it?

Anyway. Yeah, they were like, look, we broke. the Ichero statue and we're all out of other ideas. So sorry, Humpy. You must be at least temporarily eaten. I love how mascots are like characters in an old comic book where you're like, yeah, you'll be back soon. Don't worry about it. He'll be resurrected. Yeah. He was on the verge of winning the salmon run and then was eaten by a bear. Sadly. But that is the lot of a lot of salmon. It is. Natural predator. That's what happens. Yeah, that is famously one of the best. of the things that happens to them is the bears are like, um, chomp, chomp, chop, chop.

Yeah, it's basically bears and then Ben Lindbergh when it comes to natural predators and consumers of salmon. If I'm not number two, I'm close. Yeah, yeah, I'm struck by... Send me some smoked humpy, please. I just, um, when you've had a long run of futility, you have a choice to make about yourself. You can take that futility personally and you can become embedded defensive, kind of spiky, you know, like salmon probably wish they were when confronted with a bear. Or you can have a sense of humor about yourself, you know, and decide that you're going to make lemonade with the lemons that life has dealt you.

I think the turning away from the second option to the first is why, like, so much of comedy is bad, know, you know, like, why are you all so spiky? You're supposed to be funny up there. Tell me a joke. Hmm? Tell me a joke. Yeah. Well, they're truth tellers. They're philosophers. Yeah, yeah. They just discovered politics at 50. It's crazy. But I appreciate that the Mariners, and perhaps it is a decision born of what really amounts to a lack of choice. Like, if we're being totally honest, it was funny to watch those Mariners games. that Mariners game with the plushy giveaway because it's one of those ones. This is like an

advancement in toy technology that I feel like is new in the last couple of years where they were like you know, people like to have like a little pretend guy on their shoulder apparently and why limit yourself to parrots and so they have these

little plushies now where there's like you know the plushy part and then there's a magnet and so you can like stick the magnet under your shirt and the plushy on top of this. It's there like perches and you got a little you got a little friend on your shoulder and so it was very funny to be watching you know the that marriage game was like dramatic and they pan to the crowd and there was just all these little humpies all right I was like this is not a serious endeavor you guys

are doing but can't argue with the results Ben you know we can't we can't argue with the vibe of it the vibe of it was you're going to win in dramatic fashion. And on the flip side of it, I worry, and, you know, my concern will read as very sincere, I'm sure, that there has been like a curse transference to the Astros because the Astros entered this series with the Mariners kind of down on their luck, you know, having lost a bunch recently into a not good baseball team. And then proceeded to lose several key players to the injured list. over the course of the weekend and another not great, like, go from M.I.

And he's one of those guys on the aisle now. So it's, you know, it was kind of a mixed bag. There was a big blow-up humpy, too. See, what happens when you're from Seattle is that your social media feed takes a particular, it has a slant, it has a particular slant, at least as it pertains to sports. So I just got to see like a whole bunch of happy people. You know, they're happy. They were happy.

And an unhappy Humpy. I mean, I think that Humpty thinks it was worth it. Humpty's a team player, you know? That's one of the things you can always say about Humpty is that Humphi is there for the love of the game and his fellow fish. Humby even likes the tech fish and nobody likes the tech fish. Even people who work in tech don't like the tech fish. That tech fish is why I can't buy a house in Seattle.

Well, we got results here on this podcast because, you know, we talked about, promotional giveaways. We did a stat blast about that. We talked about the death of Humpey. And then no sooner did we have that discussion, then there was a Humpy giveaway. And Humpty died. He'll be back, but he's on his way back to his home planet. And the Mariners had themselves a fine weekend because the Astros did not, which meant that the Mariners did. The Mariners swept. They scored a good number of runs in all those games. And we talked about the dilemma of what to label Tatsuya I's Shuto or Revit. reverse slider. And now we don't need to worry about that because he won't be pitching for a while. Unfortunately, that's not how I wanted that to be resolved, but he recorded one out in that start against Seattle. And then he went back to Houston to get his arm checked out. So that's not great.

He's fatigue. He has fatigue. I'll also say, and then we can move on from the Mariners, but I think that, you know, contest and the weekend's results have highlighted a thing that I want to raised to you as a sort of a facet of the early going beyond the American League West. It was scored runs in a variety of ways, also, the Mariners, which how welcome, you know, for everyone who's a little sick of belonging to the three-true outcomes gang that is masquerading in Seattle, you know, like some of it, some of it was back. Some of it got some hits, some timely hits that were not home runs. They also got some home runs. That was nice, too. I will say to the Astros fans who are listening and who are not having a good time.

And look, you shouldn't be having a good time, arguably. Your team just lost, well, apart from anything else, you got swept by the Rockies. I can't feel good. Yordon Alvarez just looks like, Oh, Yordon, my God. Yes, he does. Yeah.

That's pretty scary. He remains terrifying. You know, I think that, like, you know, the analyst part of my brain realizes that there's, There's a conversation to be had about the most fearsome hitter at any given moment. And the answer to that question is often either Judge or Otani. But, like, I think that, you know, sometimes because he has dealt with so much injury, Yordon doesn't get credit for or as much credit as he should for how good a pure hitter he is because it isn't just power, right?

I am, as a fan, more terrified of that man than I think any other hitter in baseball. It's just been, it's been a bad time. But he's so good. You just have to be like, yeah, man, that's a really good ball player. Yeah, every time I see him, I know the listed heights are accurate now, but six four just doesn't seem to do him justice. I think he must have been slumping over somehow. Yeah, maybe he was a few inches missing there, maybe. Bad posture day.

But here, here's the thing I wanted to bring up to you. Boy, is everybody bunched together. You know, we spent like half an episode, oh, boy, you know. the early going and it'll move your odds so much. And that's true. And I think that Dan's analysis was sound because it's Dan and his analysis always is. But just a lot of near 500 going around these days. Real moosh in the middle, just a squishy mooshy middle.

Yes, it's true. A fat middle, as I like to call it. We got an email from listener Mitchell who was asking about that because the difference between the best and worst record through 15-ish game. games played is only five and a half games. Yeah. And quick mini blast here by Michael Mountain, Stap Blaster Extraordinaire. He looked into this and says, this is very notable. Not only is it a modern record, but it ties an all-time record.

He says, I looked at the difference in the standings between the best team in baseball and the worst team in baseball at the end of play, limited to days when every active team had played at least 15 games. Sunday, April 12th of this season meets that criterion. And the four teams tied for last place were five and a half games behind the first place Dodgers. In the 30-team era, this gap is usually at least eight to 10 games back for the last place team at this point in the season. Before this year, only twice in MLB history had the last place team been this close to first in the standings this late into the season. On June 2nd,

1881, as we all remember, the last place Troy Trojans defeated the first place Chicago white stockings in their 20th game of the season to close their gap to five and a half games in an eight-team national league, the only active major league at the time. And of course, on May 8th, the last place Brooklyn Superbas, not so superbo that year, lost to the first place Philadelphia Phillies in their 15th game of the season to fall five and a half games back in an eight-team National League, the only active major league at that time. The modern record for tightest spread, don't laugh Meg, through at least 15 games with six games, which has happened in 1943, 1960, 1985, and 1991, none of those seasons had

more than 26 active teams. In the 30-team era, the last-place team had never been closer than six and a half games. back this late, which was done by the 2011 Mets and the Astros, seven and 13 and 13, six, six future guardians slash Rockies slash fillies on April 22nd when all teams had played at least 16 games. And I will attach a spreadsheet. So we're saying there's a chance. I guess because some teams that were not expected to be that great are off to strong starts. Maybe some of them will sustain it. Maybe not. And some good teams off to slow starts. And so I imagine that reality will assert itself and some of those records, there will be more spread and

they'll look a little more like we expected them to. But it's true. No one has really separated themselves as of yet. And we're seeing interesting offensive effects. Again, it's maybe too soon to make too much of it. But even compared to previous April's, we're seeing a lot more walks, some more strikeouts. The ball is not flying super well. And so we're seeing fewer homers, which is saving us from even more of a three true outcomes situation. So it's not as if scoring is down so much, all told, but a lot of that scoring is coming from walks and batting averages are still extremely low.

So we'll see how much of that is real and how much of that is weather and how much of that is challenge system. That'll sort itself out too. But yeah, some intriguing trends in the early going here. I think the cold is accounting for some notice. percentage of what we're seeing because it feels like it's, I mean, not here. Although it's lovely today.

78 is our high today. I'm going to go for a bike ride. I'm going to go right my bike. But everywhere else in the country, or at least where they play baseball, it seems like it's been pretty chilly, you know, a little brisk. It's 80 degrees in New York right now. I wonder how many episodes of effectively wild we have recorded where it's hotter where I am than where you are.

Probably not a lot. Probably not a lot. A lot, yeah. We'd have to do some work and for what purpose, really. Probably not enough. But we've got a great guest for you all today. We do. One of our faves, Bob Kendrick, who is the president of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum.

He is here to talk about Jackie Robinson Day, which is this week. It's Wednesday. We'll start there and then we'll talk about what it means for Jackie Robinson Day to happen in this particular era, this police. political climate. We'll talk about all things. Negro Leagues, we'll talk about baseball in Kansas City. We'll talk about the expansion, the planned expansion of the Negro Leagues baseball museum, and much, much more. So it's a great chat, and we just love listening to Bob and also talking to him. So probably you all will enjoy the former, at least. So we will get to him a smattering of

banter before we do. A baseball mystery was solved, Meg. And probably people forgot that this was a mystery. You may remember, you may not. I wouldn't fault you if you didn't, but we bantered on episode 2341. This was last June about a mysterious wrist injury suffered by Cutter Crawford, and it ended his season, which never actually started because he was hurt to start last season for the Red Sox. And then he had wrist surgery, and that ended his year. But the Red Sox and Alex Cora were very cagey. They were weird about it. Yeah. They wouldn't divulge what happened exactly, how he hurt himself. And that's why it made it more mysterious because.

I remember this conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So Alex Cora, he specified that it wasn't irresponsible. He said, I'm not going to get into details. It's not disappointing to the organization. It's just an accident. It stinks that it happened this way.

What way? Nobody knew because they wouldn't say. And so when he said it wasn't irresponsible, it was like, well, what could this have been that it sort of stricent affected it, at least for me? And I was way more curious about this than I would have been normally about a Cutter Crawford wrist injury. Well, the case has been cracked by our pal, Alex Speer, who just wrote about this and talked to Crawford and has the scoop about what happened last year because Crawford is on a minor league rehab assignment. He's almost back, hopefully. So here's what happened. It was a gardening accident.

What? Yes, gardening accident, and I will give you the specifics, because I know you may have many more questions about it. Yeah. Okay, well, I'll read you what we have here, courtesy of Alex, and we may have more questions. But here we go, quoting from Alex in the Boston Globe. By June, Crawford was on the cusp of a rehab assignment

before what he described as a freak yard accident. What happened? It started with a need to water some freshly planted green buttonwood trees. Okay. Quote from Crawford, I was literally going to move the damn hose, he sighed. You take a garden hose, and you're a gardener. Maybe you can identify.

You take a garden hose, when we say a player has a hose, this is not normally what we mean. You want more hose and you yank it. I didn't know it was wrapped around a sprinkler. head around the corner of the house. So when I went to pull the hose, it pulled against the wall. I wasn't expecting it. It caught my wrist in a bad position and cranked me back the other way.

I felt a slight pop. I was like, that didn't feel right. When he tried to turn his wrist over, the supination movement needed to spin a baseball, he felt pain. A few days later, the pain subsided. But the ECU tendon in his right wrist was subluxing, snapping across the bone. because the tendon sheath had torn. I tried taping it up and throwing,

but I just couldn't confidently rely on it with a torn subsheath in there. It's kind of hard to do my job when I have something torn in my throwing wrist. We tried. It sucked. So that's the story. Cutter Crawford was cranking his hose and it got caught on his head

and it tore his wrist tendon. This is such an undignified way to introduce our interview with, like, the most dignified man in baseball. Sorry, Bob. We will timestamp your interview. Everyone can skip us talking about Cutter Crawford cranking his hose. But this is what happened. And I guess this explains maybe why Alex Cora was so. And you'll be happy to know that Crawford has since outsourced his lawn and garden care to a professional.

I've got a guy, he said. I've got a guy. This will not happen again. Okay, so here's what I'll say. First of all, I can't believe that the actual answer to this quandary was a version of yanking it. Because that was the reason I was giggling when you reminded me of this, because I was like, what was notable about the Cutter Crawford injury? And then you said the way they talked about it was weird. And I was like, oh, right, we were working hard to not make lewd jokes in that.

segment, as I recall, a mission that we have failed to accomplish. But can you blame us? I mean, freezing, you know. I mean, come on. What a time to be alive. So I'll say this, you know, Gardner is such a generous way to describe the puttering I do in my yard. I am trying, and I will say that I have had some things, you know, it's going okay, Ben,

you know, despite the fact that we had two weeks of weather over 100 degrees already. Nightmare. But, you know, I enjoy gardening, and such as what I do can be described that way. And here's the thing that I will say about the act of gardening. Sometimes you, and I don't know if Cutter Crawford had headphones in while he was doing this, but, you know, like I like to listen to a little podcast or this time of year. You listen to a game on the radio or book on tape or what have you. And sometimes you realize it's important to have your ears as a tool because you will miss the sounds that would indicate, hey, stop what you're doing and do something different.

And so I believe him that in a moment as pure as the driven snow that he was yanking his host. And it got caught on the head. Yep. And so I. So doing now, knowing what we know now, do we think the Red Sox and Alex Cora handled this appropriately? No, they were super weird about it. Like Carter Crawford with his hose.

Why did you, Barb, why did you stricane affect yourselves? Just like he, he. I guess he could have just said, yeah, he was, I mean, maybe he wouldn't have said, yanking his hose, cranking his hose. Those were the words that Crawford used himself. But he could have just said he was gardening and the hose got caught on something. You know, it would have just been another entry in the annals of strange. baseball freak injuries and probably, I mean, it's accurate what he said that it wasn't anything

like, you know, assuming this is actually what happened, that there was nothing disgraceful about this. Yeah, he wasn't being irresponsible. He didn't have like, you know, he didn't smack the wall in a fit of peak. He wasn't, you know, he didn't do anything doofy. He just like had a minor gardening mishap. Could happen to any of us. has happened to most of us, will happen again.

But they sure did talk about it in a weird way that I feel strange about now. Yeah, well, now we know. So he's on the comeback trail, hopefully. Also, some prospect promotion news, White Sox top pitching prospect Noah Schultz is coming up. He was off to a fantastic start in AAA over a few starts, and he will be debuting against the raise on Tuesday. and a couple other even tippier top prospects are really pushing things. They are making their case.

So we've seen Connor Griffin has arrived. He has been summoned. Just looking at the rest of the fan graphs top 10 from February, Jesus Made, the Brewers top prospect. He's off to an excellent start. He has a 155 WRC plus in nine games in double A. So he's already sort of making the case for a promotion, at least before too long, if not a call-up. And then, well, the next few guys have been in the big leagues, Nolan McLean, Samuel Bessio, Kevin McGonagall.

And then Leo DeVries, who was prospect number six, he's off to maybe an even better, hotter start. Incredible start. Yeah, he's in AA for the athletics, nine games. He has a 170 WRC plus. He is also 19 years old, much like Jesus Made. He's 19 years and six months. And Jesus Mades, actually, he's not quite 19. He's about to be 19.

He's turning 19 in early May. So even younger than Connor Griffin somehow. And then Max Clark of the Tigers. Yeah. He's a couple years older, but he was the number seven prospect preseason. And he has been at AAA, 14 games 165. at WRC Plus. So these guys, they're on the fast track.

So I don't know how soon we will be seeing all of them, at least. And certainly with the teenagers, we don't want to rush them. But boy, they are already making the case that they are too good for their levels. Well, and it's interesting. I mean, they're all like really just tearing it up and DeVries. I mean, DeVries had a phenomenal spring. And, yeah, he's going to be very special. I'm most interested just because of the potential confluence of injury and position with Clark

because the Tigers had to put Parker Meadows on the 60-day IL. Yeah, that was a brutal collision. Yeah, terrible. Terrible. Terrible collision. And, you know, you just, you feel so bad for this guy because it has just been one thing after another, you know, this is back-to-back seasons with a 60-day place. It's really rough stuff. So, you know, we wish Parker Meadows all the best. But I do wonder sort of how they will think about Clark's performance in conjunction with that and, you know, whether they will sort of accelerate things for Clark as a result of that. But they haven't called him up yet, obviously, and they did make another move in conjunction with the Meadows placement. So not what they're doing this minute. But he's, I mean, like, he's probably, I mean, he's probably, I mean, he's. He is.

He's the best centerfield prospect in baseball. And Hary Mennel is famously when I'm playing centerfield. So I wonder if we'll see some, you know, push come to shove there and to your point, like a more seasoned player has had time in the high minors, although, you know, this is his first taste of AAA. So we'll see how that goes. But it's going well so far. We like a 165 WRC plus. Yeah, it's exciting. Lots of young, young impressive dudes.

And many of them play for teams that are either. obvious contenders. I mean, they're all sitting right at 500 or right around 500 because that's what you do, apparently. That's the fashion now. But, you know,

many of them on teams that either have obvious postseason aspirations or are in the, like, could be kind of frisky category, including the athletics who right now, eight and seven, attack the AOS with the Rangers. I don't know if the angels being head of the Mariners. That's upsetting.

Did you see the alleged Froyo fraud, Ben? Yes, I saw the athletic piece from Cody Staven Hagen and Sam Blum about the Froyo company that sponsored, well, the would-be supposedly vaporware frou company that sponsored a couple of MLP teams and then defrauded everyone. Included. So Angels and Diamondbacks, we'll move on to more substantive things. But this is, look, so much of crime isn't funny. And there is non-fony aspects to this story because it seems like they are alleged to have, like, you know, defrauded former employees.

And so I don't mean to imply that this is a victimless situation. And there aren't people who have, you know, more limited financial resources than either the angels or the diamondbacks who might have suffered some con here. So, okay. So with that very heartfelt and sincere caveat apply, this is the funniest crime I've ever heard in my entire life. I would listen to a 10-part podcast series about this. Yeah. I'm sure there will come a point where my tolerance for it is exhausted and my patience for the story is spent, but I have not reached it yet.

This is a Froyo company. It's a Froyo company that has like vague girl boss branding, right? Like for every Froyo you buy, we like vaguely support women and girls around the globe. like with Froyo? What does that mean? I never saw a single person buying this Froyo at Chase Field. And it's not like I'm there every day. But I have never, when I've gone in on a ticket, not on my card, when I've gone in on a ticket and been like, oh, I'm going to go get something to snack on from the concourse. There was never anyone at that stand. There was never a single person. I never saw a single person with that Froe. They have, like, they have other ice cream there. They have other ice cream at the, so it is a, and in part, Part of the reporting of this story is that, you know, the Froyo company, Krameli, was supposed to be like French frozen yogurt because it's like, yeah, let's make it fancy. But they were apparently not, they are alleged to have not been able to actually satisfy the supply needs, I think particularly at Angel Stadium. And so they were potentially serving like third party regular ice cream in the place of the Kremlin because they didn't have enough Kremlin in order to. to serve all the, and I was like, how many of these were you possibly selling that you were running

out of Cremelie? Like, no, no one ever, faux French, girl boss, Froyo company fraud, allegedly. Yeah. Amazing. That's the best thing I've ever heard in my entire life, both faux Froyo and faux French and a fraud. Amazing. Hat tip to Craig Goldstein in his G-chats to you.

Thank you. Yes. Fouyo. I was like, oh, that's it. That's it. There it is. They're amazing. It does sort of speak to.

I know that this was not an official MLB partner, I suppose. It was a team partnership. But MLB has had a bunch of embarrassing sponsorships, too, from FDX on down. And just, Manfred will just accept pretty much any partner, you know. And whether it's gambling stuff or prediction market stuff or just the weirdest, like, cut rate bargain basement, why is this even? This has nothing thematically to do with Major League Baseball. And there have been a few occasions where that has backfired because basically it seems like MLB's criteria for can you be an official X of Major League Baseball is, will the checks clear? And in some cases, maybe not even that.

So the answer is. Yeah. It's just can we shoehorn in any sponsorship, the official shoehorn of Major League Baseball, shoehorned in, just whatever it is if you can pay or if you can say that you can pay, whether you actually can or not, we'll find out. They'll take your money. I want to be fair. Like, what level of due diligence are we really expecting here?

I mean, some more than they seem to be doing. But, like, what's our expectation? that they were going to go to the Bahamas and be like, I think this crypto company is doing some frauds down here. And also, whatever that, like, polycule is is very confusing. You all seem like you need therapy. They were not the only ones snookered by that. But, yeah.

I do love that the, like, fancy Froyo place, again, I'm sure they sold stuff because, like, they were there for, like, a year, more than a year maybe. But there's also, like, been a longstanding set of colds. stone creameries at Chasefield. And I do love that the good dirtbags of Arizona. And I use that term affectionately in this case. We're like, we don't need any of this fancy French Froyo. Give me the 1,500 calories someday.

I am at a baseball game. What are you talking about? There aren't any brownies in that. There are brownies in this. There's now an ice cream place at Chase Field that is like kind of an ice cream place, but really just serves you cookie dough? Mm-hmm. Like that is the...

Yeah. I mean, all the, yeah, it's like a food alchemy, some kind of kitchen alchemy that goes on. It's just the foremost food scientists or foremost mad scientists of kitchen creations all seem to be working for professional sports teams. And they concoct these creations. I think they're trying to kill people. I think they're trying to kill people. They're trying to make news and so they keep having to one up each other. Right.

And somehow cram more calories into these things. and some of them might be edible in certain circumstances, but the ballpark probably isn't one of them, just because it's hard to have portable food stuffs. And, you know, like you're sitting at your seat and you're carrying it back and everyone's standing up and your o'clock into that, excuse me. Yeah, and then you don't have a surface in front of you, really. And so if it's one of these like octuple decker subs or, you know, some sort of burger.

Right. 10-seat long hot dogs. going to come out from between the buns and it's just going to be everywhere and it's going to be the greatest mess of all time. Plus, some of these things, by the time you get them back to your seat and they've been under a heat lamp or something kind of congealing, you know, if you're like in a fancy restaurant and it's served to you at the perfect piping hot temperature, but it's been sitting out there for a while and then you're transporting it. And so how appetizing is that really by the time? And so it's all sort of a stunt.

It's all for the story. But then I think there's probably a lot of regret that's part of that story sometimes, too. And to be clear, I view the ballpark as a, like, you just get to have your treats, you know. I don't think anyone's, like, eating at the ballpark going like, but where are my healthy options? Although there are ballparks that have, like, you know, a nice array of different kinds of foods. Yeah, and I'm all for that. Yeah, that's nice. priority is getting the standard classic ballpark fair right.

Getting that stuff right. Yeah, ensuring that you can get a good regular hot dog or burger, French fries or whatever people usually get when they go to a sporting event. If there are other options, you know, if I see some sushi or something, I'm all for that, absolutely. But yeah, the fancier you get, it's like nail the staples, the staple crops of ballparks first probably and then absolutely diversify. but some of these, these are...

And, you know, make sure the check clears. Yes, that too. That is quite important as well. Froyo fraud. Allegedly. Allegedly. Also, that story was so long. I was like, look at...

And no, no knock, but I was just like, wow, this is... We got a lot to say about alleged Froyo fraud. Yeah. So, speaking of call-ups or players who might be making a case for call-ups, so Mason Miller, we talked about... and marveled out last time. He still has not allowed to run. You know who else has not allowed to run on this young season? John Brebia. John Brebeah, who was signed by the twins. He's in AAA. I believe that was first reported on effectively wild. I should have posted or tweeted or something

so that that would have been bigger news because it would have been a good bit for me to report transaction info on John Brebeah. Yeah. If that's the only guy. Him enjoying Manessus. It's like Yes. You have a two-person beat. Yes, exactly. And to be clear, I'd never burn my sources. But John Brebier was not my source. He is not feeding me information about his own signings.

Nor is his agent. That would get in the way of the restraining order. However, that signing is paying off so far because he has a healthy zero ERA in AAA in AAA for the twins nine innings. He's struck out 14 per nine. He is, he's dominant. He's just, he's got a 0.95 FIP. I mean, yeah, come on. I know the twins are off to a decent start too, but, you know, surely they could use a little brebia in that bullpen.

Meanwhile, the Mets who are struggling and they decide that their solution to their issues so far is to pour gasoline on the fire and to call up Craig Kimbril after all but one minor league inning, which I think was an A ball. So stay tuned for perhaps some Craig Kimbril blown leads coming your way sometime soon. We will see. Maybe he'll surprise me. You know, we were talking about when we talked about Miller, we were reminiscing about Peak Kimbril. This is not Peak Kimbril anymore unless he has enjoyed some rejuvenation over the offseason. So I am sort of, it's rubbernecking describes what is happening here because contender or aspiring contender after contender or aspiring contender keeps calls. calling up Craig Kimbril year after year after year.

And just about all of them live to regret it or don't live to regret it because he always gets demoted and he's in some high levered spot. And granted, the Mets are not calling him up to be the closer or anything at this stage. But several teams in succession did make that mistake of saying Craig Kimbril's our guy and then ruining the day that they decided that. So we'll see. maybe in a lower leverage role, perhaps he can help them. But I would suggest that John Brebria might be the better candidate. So, you know, we'll just see. We'll just see who's worth more Major League War over the rest of the season,

Craig Kimbril or John Prebria. We will see. And maybe lastly, before we bring on Bob, all that jazz. Let's talk a little bit about jazz. I don't know if you saw the comment that Jazz Chisholm made over the weekend. Yeah, which brought some condemnation his way. And of course, there's a certain segment of people who are always eager to jump on jazz. And, of course, to detect any indication of lack of fundies by the Yankees, you know, just fundamentals issues.

And jazz gave them some ammunition here. So what happened was much of this was more a mistake in what he said. I think, than what he did. But there was a situation Saturday. The Yankees and Rays were playing, and the Rays won in the bottom of the 10th. And there was a, I believe, a one-out basis-loaded situation. It was a tie game.

And Jonathan Aranda of the Rays hit a chopper to Jazz. And Jazz had options here. He could grab this ball. He could try to tag the runner who was running past him, the runner who had been on first at the start of the play, and then maybe flip it to first for what would have been an inning-ending double play, and it would have been tough.

I mean, I think given where the ball was and where the runners were and everything, this was maybe sort of a Kobayashi-Maru situation for him to some extent, but he could have perhaps pulled that off, but he babbled the ball. Now, once he babbled the ball, he was sort of screwed because, yeah.

So he missed tagging the runner because of the bobble, then he tried to flip it to first anyway to get Aranda, but the throw was off and Ben Rice couldn't catch it cleanly. But it wouldn't have mattered even if he had because that just would have been the second out and the game ending run was crossing the plate anyway, Ray's win. But when Chisholm was asked about the play after the game, now he did say that his first impulse was to tag the runner, who was heading from first to second, and then get the force at first, which would have been the right move to. make there. And then he couldn't do that once he babbled. And so he hoped that they could still turn a four, three, six double play, second to first to shortstop by getting the batter runner and then applying a tag to the runner heading for second. Except seemingly he didn't know that that wouldn't have worked either because the game still would have been over because the out at second

wouldn't have been a force. And so if the runner who was running from third to home cross the plate, yeah, before that tag, then the run would have counted. The rays would have won anyway. So reporters were gathered around, and he was explaining what he was thinking. And he said, I was really going to go try to tag the runner and just throw it to first. I don't know what the rule is. If I went to first base first and threw it back to second, if it's still an out.

Is it still a double play? I don't know. Does it count as not an RBI? And then Trent Grisham was nearby getting dressed. And he had to just explain the rules to Jazz. He said, no, they'll score. They'll get there before the tag occurs at second. Yeah.

And then Jazz said, oh, well, what I was trying to do in my mind probably wouldn't have worked anyway. So again, first thought, best thought. His initial inclination was right, what he wanted to do. And then he was rushing things because of the bubble. But he did then. He did then divulge that he just did not know what the rule was for like whether this would have been a force play and whether the run would have counted. And that's not the greatest look, I guess. And so a bunch of people have piled on and have taken this as yet another indication that the Yankees are not well coached.

They're not well managed. They don't know the basic rules of baseball that you're supposed to learn in Little League. And then Aaron Boone came out and was trying to defend him and said he's not confused. I think that's his kind of default answer when he's got reporters in front of him, whatever that means. So he said that he thinks Jazz knew what he was doing. And he said he's not a dumb guy. It's just sometimes how you present yourself in certain situations. Oh, no.

Aaron. Yeah. Yeah, he basically said, like, he's not actually dumb. He just presented himself as dumb. Oh, no. It's just sometimes how you present yourself in certain situations and coupled with he's off to a little bit of a slow start. So there's maybe some frustration building there. So I guess the moral of the story is maybe don't cop to not knowing basic rules of baseball.

I mean, ideally know them. But if you don't know them, maybe don't when reporters are around, be like, I don't know. I don't know the rule in this situation. What would have happened here? Yeah. So, yeah, not the best. I... It's like if someone was like, hey, what's the perfect story to piss off Yankees fans?

Yes. And then, Jazz was like, allow me. Well, I don't know how useful it is to speculate about whether or not jazzism. Junior actually knows baseball. I think that the odds are good that he does and that he simply, like, got kind of turned around in his own mind. Yeah. But that's not good either, you know. Yeah.

That's only a marginally better, and importantly better, but a marginally better difference, I suppose. I just love poor Trent Christian being like, ah, oh, no, I got to get in there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if the Yankees just need to, you just need to, like, clockwork orange them with Tom Amantz. videos or something and they just need to like here's the play the play is to witch base and they do little drills or something but yeah this is an ongoing issue obviously we talked about this on the yankees season preview pod and other times just Yankees making mental errors this was a physical

error that kind of combined with maybe a mental error and I don't know yeah I guess just fake it till you make it maybe I don't want anyone to lie And again, getting a window into what someone actually thinks that's valuable for us baseball writers and reporters out there. But, yeah, it's not the best PR strategy because this, again, like he probably couldn't have done anything differently here once he made the bobble. It wasn't like the mental mistake or confusion actually cost them the game or anything. Right, but it could have. It could have, yeah. If the bobble hadn't occurred, then could have.

Right. Maybe. I mean, again, if he hadn't bobbled, if he'd fielded it cleanly, I think his first impulse was correct. And he was just trying to tag the runner and then go to first. But yeah, I think this all would have blown over and it would have just been written off as it's an error. You know, that happens. But I think this also just reinforces that mental errors really piss people off more than physical errors. They really?

I think that that's right. People get really worked up about that, you know. And in a way that seems to outstrip their frustration with a bobble or, you know, the ball pops out of your glove or clangs or, you know, whatever comic book action sound you want to use to describe. Kerpaw. Yeah. Right. Kerpaw. You know, we have a lot more patience for the kerpaw, which is interesting because it's, because why, you know.

I wonder if the reason is that, like, we normal people, civilians, on some level, for however much we might say, like, ah, you should have had that play, understand that, like, professional athletes are doing a thing that we are not capable of doing in the same way that they are. But, like, we can all know what the rules are, right? We all have the ability as, you know, normies to know what things to throw to.

And so it's like, hey, you should be able to do that part. I can do that part. Yes. That's, I think, an oversimplification of the capacity, right? Because you don't, you have, we have no idea how it feels to be like in a high pressure situation like that as a literal New York Yankee with everyone watching, knowing you're going to get asked about it after the game. Like, it's not as straightforward as like, know the rule, do the execute the rule, right?

Now, plenty of guys do it and jazz does it all the time. But also, the Yankees, you're, it is like. it's a thing now. I don't think this is just like sports talk radio. And the part of it that I find so confounding is that it's not like it's isolated to one guy. You know, I feel like every Yankee has a moment

where you're, with it, you know, I'm sure there are exceptions to that. Like, I can't remember the last time that, well. So it's just, you know, like, it seems, it does seem to be a team wide kind of issue. And I don't know that the rate of it is actually worse. Like, it could be a shark attack situation where, you know, where you like, you hear about a shark attack. And then you're like listening about shark attacks after that. And you're like, oh, my God, they're everywhere.

And it's like, are they everywhere? Are you just paying attention to that particular gruesome fate more? Yeah. So I don't know if their incidence rate is really that much higher or if their incidence rate on like, you know, easy place. plays, typical plays, that the average fielder makes is actually higher or if we just notice. Or if they, you know, maybe they all can't stand the pressure of playing in New York. I think that that's something we have to consider. Yeah.

And they just, the spotlight is brighter. They obviously get covered more. We're more likely to hear a quote by a Yankee than any other randomly selected player. So I don't think it's purely frequency illusion, but maybe a bit of that. But I think also, yeah, it's just unforced errors are infuriating because. They're infuriating. Yeah, you know, being good at baseball, making baseball plays, obviously all of these players are amazing. But still, it requires incredible coordination and no one's perfect and balls take bad hops and you take your eye off the ball for a second, whatever it is.

It's the heat of the moment. But if it's something like this, not knowing a rule, well, you should prepare for that. You should study. You should do drills. You can be aware before the game even begins. And so I think we're a little more forgiving of something that happens in the heat of the moment than a lack of preparation. This is why people are so upset about lineup decisions, even though all the studies say, you know, most reasonable lineups within the realm of conceivability. It's only a handful of runs at most between the best and the worst.

But why just shoot yourself in the foot before the game begins? If you have some suboptimal lineup, then you might as well just give yourself the best chance. And that's why people are still so upset about that all the time. So, yeah, not being prepared, not having just hit the books basically or studied up. That I think is always going to just throw people for a loop even more so than just making a game ending error, which is disappointing. but I feel like I'm going to lapse into Alex Cora type language here. You know, it's not, it's disappointing to the organization, but, you know, but was it irresponsible?

That's the question. And maybe not knowing the rules, that's irresponsible. I can't believe. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. I can't. I'm sorry. I'm back to, I can't believe that he was Yanke in a host, man.

Yeah. And one more Yankees observation. We got an email from listener, Patreon supporter. Stephen who wrote in to say, big Yankees and Rule 5 fan here. I love the idea of just being a Rule 5 fan. The Yankees carried. Is JJ emailing? Yeah.

I've never met another human being who loves the Rule 5 draft as much as JJ Cooper. It is so pure and sincere and it is delightful. Yeah. So Stephen notes the Yankees carried Cade WinQuest all winter, brought him north or west in reality. for their opening day roster and carried him for 16 days and a total of 12 games. And then he's gone. He never actually got to make his major league debut.

And Stephen says, where does this rank in brutal phantom major leaguer stints? I'm guessing pretty high in recent memory, particularly since the September call-up rules shifted. I feel pretty bad for the guy warming up seven times for his debut just to get sent back off the 40-man roster sends one appearance. Yeah, that's really rough. I mean, they call it dry humping, not dry humpy, dry humping sometimes in baseball circles, getting warmed up for a game and not coming in. I know, I'm so upset. That's what they call it, but this is the ultimate in that. I mean, this is way worse than dry humping.

Dry humping, I'll stop there. But I think for K'd WinQuest specifically, I mean, this is like he was so close, you know? I know. And he was carried on the roster for weeks. And he's warming up to get into games. And maybe he'll have another shot. He hasn't turned 26 yet. You know, he can kick around.

He was returned to the Cardinals, I think. Yeah. And maybe with the Cardinals, he'll have a clearer path to playing time, perhaps. So it might all work out just fine. I tried to figure out whether this is some sort of record. It's really hard to because the data that we have for who was actually active on an MLB roster for any given day, It's just not great. It just goes back to 2005 at best, but not reliably back that far.

And so I got some data from baseball prospectus, but it's not really reliable more than a decade or so. And maybe not even then. There seemed to be players missing. So I wouldn't trust it too much. There is a Wikipedia page for phantom ballplayers, which is what it's often referred to when you're called up and you're in the big leagues, but you never actually make your major league debut. And I don't know that this is a real game. record, but it's up there. I was scanning recent outliers, and Miguel Romero was promoted to the

majors on September 8th, 2021 by the then Oakland days, and then was optioned on September 21st without having appeared in a game that's roughly as long. But yeah, this is about as long, because, look, even with 26 roster spots, you're not going to waste one, really. And yes, you sometimes carry Rule 5 guys without using them that much, because you just want to keep them in your organization. But still, if you're the Yankees, there's a limit to how long you can just carry someone and use a roster spot on someone who's not actually getting into games. But it does almost seem like there should be a rule or something.

It's like if you are carried on a major league roster for X days, like they should have to use you before you get sent down or returned or whatever it is. And I'm sure, Cade WinQuest, you know, he's happy to have been in the big leagues in some fashion and also was making major league money while he was up there. So could be worse, but still, to warm up that many times and be that close to your dream and then have it taken away from you, that's pretty rough. I feel like there should almost be some sort of like, once a guy is on a roster for X days or games, then you have to use him before you send him down unless there's an injury. But then there might be shenanigans and faking injury. And then I wouldn't want to discourage

anyone from calling anyone up in the first place because of that regulation. So maybe it backfires and their unintended consequences. But I don't know. It's just, it's kind of cruel to be that close. And I hope that he gets up there again and gets another shot at it because I wouldn't want that to be my legacy where I'm telling stories about the two weeks in the sun where I was this close to getting someone into a game and it never quite happened. But, I mean, in my mind, you're a big leaguer.

If you've been on a big league active roster. And he got a big league check. Yeah, absolutely. So it counts. But obviously, there is an important distinction there. I'm sure that he feels that difference. Yes, I'm sure he does. I imagine Cade WinQuest will get another shot.

It's shocking he didn't pitch in a game, right? Like, I'm going to say something that I don't have a lot of conviction in, but I'm going to say it any. It feels like kind of managerial malpractice to me. There wasn't one game where you could get this guy. in? Really? There wasn't one game where you could find an inning for him to throw so that he can get up there and hopefully get a strikeout and go. I'm doing the little gesture they do when the dugout says, hey, be sure to get that ball. Be sure to get that ball. That won't mean

something. Like, come on, Aaron. And I'm using your first, I'm using his first name, which is how you know I'm serious because that's a little, we aren't acquainted. Although I did call him a bad role model. So am I surprised? Should I be? Now. Now I shouldn't. I know. It's been bad for the New York teams lately. I saw a stat that the Mets and Yankees both lost on five consecutive days for the first time in history. Both of them. But yeah, obviously, you know, sometimes they would be off days and they wouldn't all be playing on the same days, et cetera. But still. But yeah, I guess part of it is that the Yankees haven't played in many big blowouts. They had a 7-0 win on opening day and that's the biggest margin of victory or defeat that they've had this season. So

probably if there had been more mop-up man situations, then Cade would have been called on. But they've been playing fairly close games. So I guess that's probably part of it, just too many high leverage spots to work WinQuest in. But yeah, that stinks. And I'm going to be rooting for him to get called up again somewhere. Plus, Cade WinQuest is a great name. It's the best. Yeah. Cade WinQuest. And normally I'm local warm on Cade as a name.

I, you know, I don't dislike it, but it's a take it or leave it name for me, you know. But Cade win quest. That's. You're on a win. Isn't baseball one big win quest? Yeah. It's true. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It is true. It is true. What are we doing? What is going on? Why wasn't this poor man allowed to pitch? Yeah.

My God. He would have pitched in a loss. I'm sure he would have settled for that too. I'm sure he would have settled for that. It would have been the best day of his life. And it would have been, and here, this is where it's short-sight. I don't know why I'm blaming Boone for this, but this is where it's short-sighted managerially. Because, you know, one way to make a loss feel better is if you have a nice silver lining.

And what better silver lining is there than watching a young person's debut, you know? And he's, you know, 25 still counts as young. I'm about to be 40. Yeah. Okay. Well. Not like tomorrow in a couple months. Maybe we can blame jazz chisholm for this somehow.

It's his fault. No, I'm not blaming jazz. I, look, I don't want to, like, defend jazz, like, dishonestly. It's totally possible he doesn't maybe know the rule. But I also think it's not completely impossible to suggest that, like, he kind of got his, like, brain got ahead of his mouth and then he was like, ah, I'm trapped. It's like when I, you know, if I'm put on the spot to remember like handedness and I'm like,

I know the answer to this, but the fact that you're asking me is making me nervous and now I can't tell you. Yeah. Okay. Well, from former somewhat unlikely MLB the show cover model, jazz chisholm, we go to another star of the MLB the show franchise, Bob Kendrick. We will talk to Bob about that and about the Negro League's baseball museum expansion and about African-American players in MLB and so much more after a quick break. Well, we're happy to be joined now by Bob Kendrick, the president of the Negro

League's baseball museum in Kansas City, Kansas City, Missouri, to be specific, I should specify. Bob, happy to have you back. It is great to be back with you guys. Thanks so much for having me on the show. Our pleasure, and this is a big week. We've got Jackie Robinson Day coming up in just a day or two, depending on when people hear this Wednesday. And this has been going on now since 2004, so more than 20 years of Jackie Robinson days. I wonder how you think this event has evolved and how you try to use it to honor the legacy of Jackie Robinson,

but then also educate people about other things and other aspects of. Black Baseball and other players? What kind of an event is this for you? Yeah, and I think you just touched on it with the latter statement that you just made. You know, the great work that Major League Baseball and Major League Baseball's Players Association have done over the course of those 20 years, people kind of have an understanding of the significance role that Jackie played in terms of his barrier-breaking moment in not just baseball history, but in American history. But for the Negro Leagues baseball museum, it's an opportunity to educate that same fan base and others with the fact that Jackie Robinson's illustrious

professional baseball career began in the Negro Leagues, played right here in Kansas City for the great Kansas City monarchs in 1945. And that's a side of his story that has really not oftentimes been put in its proper perspective. Because quite frankly, had it not been for the Negro leagues and the great city of Kansas City, we likely don't get Jackie Robinson. Now, you got to think that at some point in time, someone would have integrated Major League Baseball, but who knows how long that would have been and where they would have come from. And so it's important as we remember arguably America's greatest hero that we don't forget about the league that gave us Jackie Robinson, the Negro Leagues.

And obviously, Jackie's point in history is somewhat fixed, but American history is always evolving and perhaps in ways that are positive and in some ways that aren't. And I wonder about how you position that conversation not only about Jackie, but about the Negro leagues within the context of the broader political moment that we're having. Obviously, progress that was deemed uncontroversial has recently come under unwelcome scrutiny. So how do you think about the museum's mission this particular day and then the broader cultural conversation that we're having around diversity and inclusion and the continuation of that legacy for him? Well, I do believe that the scrutiny will be a passing kind of thing. Jackie Robinson's enormous contributions move well beyond the baseball field.

Yeah. We make the rather bolder. that Jackie's breaking up the color barrier wasn't just a part of the civil rights movement that it was the beginning of the civil rights movement in its country. Because this predates those more noted civil rights occurrences. So this is before Brown versus the Board of Education. This is before Rosa Parks refusal to move to the back of the bus. As my dear friend, the late great John Buckle-Neill, the founder of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum and legendary Negro League in his own right would so eloquently say, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was merely a sophomore

at Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia when Jackie signed his contract to play in the Dodgers organization. And of course, as you both know, our very own president, Harry S. Truman, born right up the road from where the museum operates, independence, Missouri would not integrate the armed forces until a year after Jackie. So for all intensive purposes, guys, this is what started the ball of social progress rolling in our country. And if you want to, I guess, tie it into diversity, equity, and inclusion, that's okay. Because for me, it is a glaring example of why DE and I in the workplace is so valuable. And I know this is very kind of simplified.

But all you have to do is look at what happened when Jackie Robinson moves into Major League Baseball, and then it opens his door for other black and brown players to play what happened. Our game got better. Now, if you want to kind of hijack the meaning of DEI to turn it into something that he wasn't qualified, then that doesn't fly. And we are about a year removed from an incident where Jackie's a page about his, military service was removed from the Department of Defense website and what seemed to be some sort of purge of DEI-related terms. And yeah, it was laughable.

And, you know, fortunately after the outcry, it was restored. Exactly. But, you know, there's been sort of this backsliding really across all kinds of corporations. Even MLB has at least altered some language on websites about diversity after President Trump's executive order. I wonder just how this has affected the museum, if at all, or your efforts to spread the word. Of course, your fundraising right now, which we will get into. So has this affected at all support and interest either publicly or privately? No, no. Matter of fact, we're seeing the interest in the subject matter as it relates to the Negro Leagues grow.

I think you can make a legitimate case that Negro League's baseball history is as hot right now as it has ever been. But what it magnifies is just how important these cultural institutions are. And an institution like the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum is here to help people understand not just the atrocities of what American segregation was about, but also the fact that we celebrate what these incredibly courageous athletes and owners were able to do in the face of that adversity. And we need these kinds of stories. There are so many who have contributed to the true greatness of this country

and that stories have never been put in its proper perspective. And that's why this museum is so important. I don't think, to be honest, you guys, I don't think there was ever a time that people didn't want to know about the Negro Leagues. They just had no way to know about the Negro Leagues. And I can hear my late mother in my ear right now, as she was so oftentimes say, you don't know what you don't know. And these institutions are there to help bridge the gap that are in the pages of American history books.

And as we continue to deal with this kind of assault on cultural history where it is seemingly being eradicated, the little bit that is in the pages of American history books seem to be trying to be erased. And so these cultural institutions become even more important. We're very proud of the work that we do here at the Negro League's Baseball Museum. But as I've oftentimes said, man, this story is not an African-American story. It's an all-American story. Yeah, you won't let me play with you. I'll create a league of my own.

And that is the American way. And so while America tried to prevent them from sharing the joys of its so-called national pastime, it was the American spirit that allowed them to persevere and prevail. what's not to love about that kind of story? Well, and I think that one of the things that has been so gratifying to watch as, you know, as the historical record is filled out, as the statistical record of Negro leaguers is filled out, as the process of finally acknowledging those leagues as major leagues on the part of Major League Baseball, has been sort of a broadening of our understanding of those leagues as not simply a feeder to major league.

league baseball, but as an engine, right, an economic engine within the black community, a cultural engine in its own right, how do you think about sort of balancing the story of the leagues as themselves versus simply the story of integration? Because obviously, Jackie Robinson Day focuses very strongly on the latter, but it would be a real shame to lose out on the former, because that is such an American story, as you said, and also an African-American story that's quite important. And that's why I oftentimes say that the story of the Negro Leagues is fascinatingly complicated for the very thing that you just touched on.

Because you're right, wherever you had successful black baseball, you typically had thriving black economies. And when we lost the Negro leagues, we lost that catalyst. We lost that spot that drove economic commerce in so many urban communities because Jackie Robinson did not only just integrate Major League Baseball, he spawned integration in a much broader spectrum. And so all of a sudden, those smaller black-owned businesses could no longer compete. And so this story is profound in so many, many ways because Negro League's baseball, as you well know, was big business. As a matter of fact, it was the third largest black-owned business in this country. So it only trailed black-owned insurance companies who emerged during that era of American segregation

and would insure African-Americans more than the 10 to 15 cents that the white insurance companies would insure us. Essentially, the white insurance companies would insure me just enough to bury me. 10 to 15-cent policy. Well, black-owned insurance companies came about not only insured my livelihood, but insured my stock, and shoot my crop and shoot my home, and as a result, made millions of dollars. Next, of course, was Madam C.J. Walker. Madam C.J. Walker would become the first woman to earn a million dollars with a business structure, and of course, she did it with her school of cosmetology.

Madam C.J. had schools of cosmetology in every major urban center in this country. And then next was Negro League's baseball. And again, as my friend Buck O'Neill would say, all you need was a bus. two sets of uniforms, and you'd have 20 of the greatest athletes who ever lived. They could play, and they were filling up those ballparks. And when they filled up those ballparks, when those games ended, that fan base came right back to that segregated community. And they supported those segregated, mandated, black-owned businesses, and they led those businesses to their economic heights. I hope people recognize your voice from either our show or other shows you've appeared on,

that they might also recognize you from MLB the show. You are a video game star, of course, and the latest edition of the show had the fourth edition of Storylines, The Negro Leagues, and this one featured Roy Campanella, and Pop Lloyd and Mule Suttles and Peanut Johnson. And I wonder what has come of those efforts? What do you hear from people, especially younger players of that series,

who may not be that well informed about this, history, does it lead to further inquiry and discovery? Oh, absolutely. It has been by far the biggest thing this museum has ever done. A video game. Who would have ever thought it? Uh-huh. When we put the Negro Leagues into the video game, and of course, MLB, the show is the

biggest baseball video game in the world. And when we added the Negro Leagues to the video game going back to 2023 in that iteration of the game, it literally was game-changing for this museum. Because again, you touched on it. What we've now done effectively is open up the history of the Negro Leagues to millions upon millions of young people and young adults who I don't think would have ever thought about the Negro leagues had we not put them in the video game. And Sony and a San Diego studio was very smart because they didn't just throw these players in randomly with random statistics. Instead, they create the mode called storylines. And that's where I come into play. Because as you mentioned, I am in the video game telling

stories. Now, guys, I saw myself doing a lot of things. I never dreamt that I would be in a video game. And to be honest, I think I was a little bit naive about how large the video game platform really is. I knew we were doing something pretty cool. But this platform is so incredibly large. And I witness this almost every single day because I can be inside the museum just talking to some folks and the kids will come in and they'll grab their parents by the hand. I hear his voice. You know, and they come here now because they saw the museum in the video game, and they all want to meet the guy that's telling the stories in the video game. And that moves me in a tremendous way because there's this misnomer that our children don't care about history, but they do care.

It just becomes incumbent upon how history is presented to them. It can't always be for history's sake. And so when we put the Negro Leagues into this video game, a mode and medium in which they were accustomed to engaging with. And we created these short vignettes. You put a killer soundtrack behind it. And I guess a guy that tells a pretty decent story and all of a sudden you've got them. And they come here, y'all, and they want to show me how Satchel Page did his double pump wind up. they want to show me how he did his high-legged kick.

They're going to their baseball practices, and they want to throw the B-ball like satchel through the B-ball. And so that's exactly what we hope we would accomplish through this initiative with Sony and San Diego Studios. Contractually, we have one year remaining to include more Negro League players in the game. I am hopeful that we will be able to get that extended because there are still, a lot of great players who we would love to introduce in this fashion. Yes, I share that hope. And speaking of other things to introduce, Rickwood Field is in the game now. And of course, people saw Rickwood Field a couple summers ago when we saw the Giants and the Cardinals play a regular season game there.

And I just got a press release on Monday morning about the East West Classic coming back to Rickwood Field this Juneteenth. I was wondering, though, if you think that any of the surviving Negro League's venues, other than Rickwood, which is wonderful, might be able to take center stage at some point, whether it's for an MLB game or other events, places like Hinchliff or Hamtramic or League Park, some of those other settings, I don't know what would have to be done to make them big league quality, but what do you think? Well, it'll be challenging to make those other venues major league baseball ready. You know, they did quite the transformation to make Rick Wood feel ready for that epic major league baseball game they did in 2024, which we were thrilled to be a part of. I am so happy that C.C. Sabathia and the rest of the guys are continuing to celebrate Negro League's history through the East West All-Star game. that tribute to that vaunted baseball event, which is one of the greatest sporting events in American sports history. And most people don't know it.

You know, guys, they would put over 50,000 fans into Chicago's Comiskey Park for the Negro League's version of the All-Star Game, which debuted the same year as Major League Baseball's All-Star Game 1933. And yes, it did outdraw Major League Baseball's own All-Star Game. And so those venues that you mentioned, though, those. Those are baseball cathedrals. And I am thrilled that they've been restored so that they can be activated with people playing in those stadiums. There's an outside possibility, perhaps, that you could do some kind of Major League Baseball tribute in them.

But they're a little bit more challenging than Rick Wood because Rick Wood had already been hosting professional baseball. And so it was just a matter of working on some of the infrastructural aspects of old Rick Wood field. And I can tell you now, man, when I walked out into that stadium in 2024, and particularly as a steward of this story, it was not lost on me the rich history that was there in that ballpark. It gave you goosebumps. And to think about a young 17-year-old Willie Mays patrolling center field in that stadium. And as you both can probably recall, he passed away a couple of days before that event in 2024. But I think he accomplished. what he had hoped to accomplish. And that was to get us all together to celebrate the history of the Negro leagues, to put the spotlight on some of his lesser-known colleagues. And it was kind of a, I guess you could say, a huge memorial service for Mr. Maze when he passed away.

And as, you know, as sad as it was, in some ways, his passing, it's just hard to be sad when you think about Willie Maze. because he elicited so much joy. And so, but we'll continue to try and find avenues in which those venues can be activated in a meaningful way so that people understand the richness that they represent, particularly as four of the last remaining vestibles that were dedicated to Negro League's baseball or where you had substantial Negro League's baseball being played there. Speaking of press releases I've recently received, M.LB. also sent this

out last week that the percentage of black players on opening day rosters increased in consecutive years for the first time in at least a couple decades. I assume this is referring specifically to African-American players, though you can correct me if I'm wrong. But MLB said 6.8% of players on opening day rosters and injured lists and the restricted list were black, which is up from 6.2% at the start of last season, 6.0% at the start of 2024. It's still a small fraction of what it once was when the Institute for Diversity and Ethics and Sport started tracking this in 1991. It was 18%. But there does seem to be a bit of movement in the upward direction here. And the press release also specified that 20 of the 64 black players had been in programs,

such as the MLB Youth Academy, Breakthrough Series, Dream Series, Nike RBI, the Hanker and Invitational. So tell us what we should make of this is this encouraging. It's obviously a small increase, but it's an increase nonetheless, do you think these programs are paying dividends? It's incremental, but I've always remained steadfast in my belief that we would see the pendulum shift the other way. So what it means to me is that these programs that you just mentioned, that Major League Baseball, the Players Association, USA Baseball, have been so dedicated to are starting to pay dividends. We're getting more kids playing.

We're getting more kids' opportunities to be seen while they're playing. And I think that is now resulting in more kids being drafted into Major League Baseball. And as the minor leagues become more populated, and you touch on something, American-born blacks, because there are a lot of black players that are playing. They speak Spanish. But as the minor leagues become more populated with American-born black players, I think you will start to see these numbers change. And what it also reminds me is something.

that as a society we're not really geared for, and that's to be patient. Yeah, we're not very patient. We are somewhat of a microwave society, and so we want everything to happen instantaneously. It's not. So we just have to be patient. These programs are paying dividends, and we just have to stay with them. And I love the fact that baseball has included the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum as part of the solution to get more urban kids playing this. game because when they come here, they see people who look just like them, who played this game as well as anyone ever played this game. But guys, not only did they play the game, they owned teams, and they were managers and coaches, team physicians, traveling secretaries. They did everything

that you could do in terms of the business of the game of baseball. And so, yeah, we want to want them to dream about getting out on that baseball field and playing this game at its highest level. But we also want to make them ready for the other opportunities that stem from this game. And I think this collaboration between the museum, Major League Baseball, and the Players Association embraces the fact that you have to kind of see yourself. If you've got to dream it, you have to see it to believe it. And through the lens of history, in this case, they see it. And so through efforts like the video game, they're learning about it.

And so all these things, I think, are playing a role in what we're seeing, even though it's just incremental growth, is growth. And that's what we needed to see. And I'm excited. I guess you could say the glasses always have full for me. Well, that's probably a good transition to talk about the museum itself. and you find yourself in a really exciting time. Can you tell us and our listeners about the new expansion that is coming to the Negro Leagues Museum?

Yes, yes, we are in the middle of a capital campaign to build a brand new 35,000 square foot Negro Leagues baseball museum, which is going to be built right around the corner from where the museum operates. It is part of a larger, what I call a Negro League's campus because it will include the form of person, Pesel YMCA. And for those who may not be aware, the Pacea YMCA is the birthplace of the Negro leagues. That is where the leagues were established on February 13th, 1920, by the great Andrew

Rube Foster. And that building had been abandoned for years. As a matter of fact, it was last used in the early, maybe to mid-1970s. And then it was boarded up and abandoned. And we took ownership of that building that historic landmark, and we are now renovating it, to convert it into an education and research center in memory of the late great Buck O'Neill. And then the new museum will be built adjacent to the historic landmark where it all began. I guess you could say we're going full circle. And so the current museum is about 10,000 square feet of space, not an overwhelmingly large footprint, but as I remind folks, within those 10,000 square feet is a a lot of information and is beautifully curated.

But as I mentioned, a new project will be about 35,000 square feet. And it will also include the building of a Marriott Tribute Hotel that will aptly be called the pennant that will be built into the new museum, again, creating what I call the nation's first Negro Leagues campus as the gateway into historic 18th and Vine. and an international headquarters for both black baseball and social history. So as I remind people all the time, I am as excited as you could possibly be about having to raise about $45 million. Well, if you want sports writers to come to the museum, build a Marriott, that's a good plan because they all seem to stay there. But what will you be able to do with the space if this comes to fruition?

Oh, and it's going to happen. The question is how quickly we can make this happen. And so this is a big year for us from the fundraising side of things. But, you know, when you come from a one-room office, as we did with the building of this, starting of this museum in 1990, to our current home, which I mentioned is 10,000 square feet of space. You feel like you got a lot of space. but we've outgrown our current home, both from an exhibit standpoint, but also administratively. You know, because what has happened now with this heightened interest in Negro League history, it is adding a greater demand or putting a greater demand on a very small staff.

And we had to purposely curb growth because we just didn't have places to put people. So we need to grow from a standpoint of telling more stories, hopefully acquiring more artifacts, which means more stories to be told. But we also need to grow administratively to match the demand or to meet the demands of what is being put on a very small staff. And so the new space will give us that opportunity. It is going to be transformational in so many ways

because, in essence, guys, with the building of this museum currently, and as we look at it in the future, we will be doing exactly for historic 18th and Vine, where the museum operates, which was once a very proud, prominent African-American community, but like a lot of urban areas, it had died. And here comes this fledgling Negro Leagues baseball museum in 1990, saying we're going to build a museum here. Some of our most ardent supporters were questioning the decision. And honestly, I can understand why. Because the big question

was who going to come see you? There was nobody here. There was no built-in foot traffic. But thanks to the infinite wisdom of the late great Buck O'Neill who said, This is where we will build this museum, and in doing so, we will not only fulfill the mission of preserving, celebrating, and educating the public about this history, but we will help resurrect historic 18th and Vine. That was in 1990. We haven't looked back since. People are living, working, and playing at 18th and Vine. Again, this museum today is now recognized as America's National Negro League's Baseball Museum as deemed in day. by the United States Congress, but we have an opportunity to create jobs.

We have an opportunity to help, again, further put this historic area into a phase of growth that it has not seen since we started down the path of building this museum. And so we're kind of embodying the spirit of the Negro Leagues in terms of the economic impact and viability that this project will create. it will take up a full city block here in Kansas City, again, right around the corner from our current home. Well, I'll ask you in a minute how people can help. I did also want to ask you about some other sports construction that may or may not be happening in Kansas City. Of course, you're about 15 minutes away by car from Arrowhead Stadium and Kaufman Stadium,

where the Chiefs and the Royals play for now, but the Chiefs are moving across the state line into Kansas for 2031, The royals now are thinking about raising $600 million in stadium bonds to keep themselves in the state instead of following the chiefs. So I wonder what you make of these plans and how it affects your own plans, the proximity to Major League Baseball. Well, we're excited about the prospect of downtown baseball. You know, when you look at the history of baseball here in Kansas City, it was essentially right here in the urban core. And that goes back to the great Kansas City Monarchs playing at 22nd in Brooklyn. And well, then, Milbach Stadium, eventually Rupert Stadium, Blue Stadium before it's settled in as municipal stadium where not only did the Monarchs play there, but the Kansas City Blues, the Kansas City A's,

Kansas City Royals, and Chiefs all played there at one point in time. And so to have downtown baseball would be going full circle as well. And I'm excited about the prospect. We want to keep this team in Kansas City, Missouri proper. And at downtown stadium, we're close enough to downtown where self-servantly, we would likely see more fans, particularly with the talk of a streetcar line that would basically stop right at the doorstep of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. And so I'm excited about this.

You know, John Sherman and the rest of the ownership group are friends of this. museum. I know that it has been long a part of what he wanted to do when he bought the team way back in 2020 to have this opportunity to create a downtown baseball experience. And so we're really, really excited about the proposition. I just think it's so important, though, to keep the team in Kansas City, Missouri proper. I could understand why the chiefs moved across the river over to Kansas. And a lot of folks who may not be privy to some of this kind of information, see, that tax base goes with them.

And see, that art and entertainers tax, we want to keep that in the Kansas City, Missouri pool, certainly in the state pool of Missouri, so that a lot of these art agencies like the Negro League's Baseball Museum would benefit from that. we certainly have in past years. And so, but it's also exciting to have downtown baseball. Yeah, to see it return to his roots. Well, and I imagine it would facilitate another thing, which I'm always struck by, which is, you know, whenever you have a team come to play the Royals,

I feel like I see team social media highlighting players taking the opportunity to come and visit the museum, some of whom might be familiar with the stories and many of whom I imagine aren't. I wonder, you don't have to name any names, but I wonder if you could share any stories of your conversations with current big leakers as they're learning about the league's history and the Negro Leagues history. It's been great because years ago it was me trying to call the teams and, you know, try to influence them to come here. But through the years, we've seen that kind of do a polar switch. Now they're calling me wanting to come to the Negro Leagues baseball museum. See, the word has really started to spread amongst themselves.

And, you know, when you see an errand judge and a Juan Soto at the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, those are two of the biggest names in our game. And when you see them here, then I think it sends a resounding message to the rest of the baseball world to, hey, when we're in Kansas City, we need to go see Negro League's Baseball Museum. And so now they're calling me wanting to come to the Negro League's Baseball Museum. And so now they're calling me wanting to come to the Negro League's baseball museum. And it just fills my heart with joy. And it never gets old. I absolutely love their reaction to this museum. I love sharing the stories with them last year.

And a lot of them are learning about the Negro Leagues because they play MLB the show as well. And last year, when the St. Louis Cardinals were in town, Jordan Walker and Victor Scott, two of their great young stars, came over to see me. They had been playing the video game. And one of the first things they asked me, they said, tell me about this dude, John Donaldson. Because apparently in the video game, nobody can hit him. John Donaldson is not a household name in the Negro leagues, but he should be. John Donaldson is one of the greatest pictures that most people have never heard of.

over 400 verifiable wins, over 5,000 strikeouts, and amongst other incredible feats. And he's also credited with having invented the slider. And to give you an indication of how great John Donaldson was, Satchell Page idolized John Donaldson. He wanted to be like John Donaldson. Of course, John Donaldson was an early era picture, but that's who Satchell kind of modeled his craft after the great John Donaldson.

And J.L. Wilkinson, who owned the Kansas City Monarchs, said that John Donaldson was the greatest picture he ever had. Now, you have to remember that J.L. Wilkinson had Hall of Famers Wilbur Bullet Rogan, Jose Mendez, Hilton Smith, Satchel Page, all Hall of Famers. And he said that John Donaldson was the best he ever had. Donaldson is not in the National Baseball Hall of Fame. He should be. It is a travesty that John Donaldson is not in the National Baseball Hall of Fame. But that's the beauty of MLB, the show, because we didn't just focus on the big superstar names or those who have maybe gone more mainstream.

So yes, Sattles is in the game. Josh Gibson's in the game. Cool Papa Bell is in the game. But you also get a John Donaldson. in the game. You get a Hank Thompson in the game. These guys were great baseball players. They just didn't carry that same panache that's some of the more well-known or more mainstream players like Josh and Satchel, but they were great players. John Donaldson is one of those. And so the young major leaders are playing the game as well. So they come a little bit more equipped than maybe years

before as a result of the video game. Yeah. And people want to learn a little bit of more about John Donaldson on Effectively Wild. We did do an episode on him way back when episode 1141 people can check out. And before we let you go, I did want to ask you about one particular player and Hall of Famer who visited the museum because I know you're looking for people to sign checks and he signed a pretty big one for you, I believe. We talked about Ichero last week because he had a statue unveiled in Seattle. And I know Joe Posnanski has told the story of his visit to the Negro League's Baseball Museum. I wonder if you could share it too. Yeah, he came twice.

The first time he came, he snuck in here. Nobody knew he was here. And the only reason we knew was he bought some jerseys and we saw the credit card slip. And so when Buck O'Neill passed away, sadly, in October of 2006, Ichiro sent flowers. And he and Buck, I guess, you could say, were kindred spirits in so many ways. And I've always believed that Buck, number one, he just loved these great ballplayers anyway. And he spent so much time at the K, hanging out at the K. But Buck can just talk to the Royals.

He talked to everybody who came in there. Derek Jeter still remembers being a rookie. And the first person to greet him when he came to Kauffman Stadium, Buck O'Neill, let him know how proud he was and how he was pulling for him and thought he was going to be great. And, of course, Jeter was absolutely. be great. And it was much the same for Buck with Ichiro. But I think even more so, Buck saw a lot of himself and the players of the Negro leagues in Ichero. Because when Ichero announces that he's coming over to play in the major leagues, the Naysayas said, well, you know you did that in your league,

you won't do that in our league. And then what happens? He comes over here and does the same thing. Well, when those players from the Negro League started to transition into Major League Baseball, The naysairs were saying the exact same thing. You did that in your league, but you won't do that in our league. And I think Buck understood that. And Ichiro would always say that he admired Buck's style. Buck was very classy. He was always Natalie dressed when he went to the ballpark.

And that caught Ichero's attention. And so as I mentioned, when Buck died in October of 06, Ichero sent flowers. the next, at the beginning of the 07 baseball season when the Mariners came to town, his translator reached out to me and said, Ichiro wants to meet with you. And I'm like, cool. I mean, Ichero wants to meet with me.

I want to meet with him. But I knew he had already been to the museum before. And so he gets here and we come up to our upstairs conference room. And I pull out some memorabilia, rare memorabilia of the 1927 tour of Japan, where a barnstorming group of men, Negro leaguers called the Philadelphia Royal Giants had ventured over to Japan in 1927, play a 24-game exhibition series. They went 23-0-1 on the tour. By all accounts, it was really the Japanese introduction to American professional baseball player. Now, they had been playing baseball,

but this brand of American professional baseball, they had not seen until 1927. Coinclair, that seven years before Babe Ruth and his all-Americans go to Japan. So we had this memorabilia. We pulled it out and guys, he lit up. He lit up like a Christmas tree. He had no idea that these brothers had been to his native homeland as early as 1927. And the Game Day magazine we have was written in old Japanese, but he was actually able to decipher what was on the cover of the magazine.

And so we're sitting there and he reaches in his bag. And he pulls out his checkbook, and he wrote a significant check in memory of his friend, Buck O'Neill. And to be honest, y'all, I wanted to keep that check, because that would have been perfect to have here at the museum. But we needed the money, so we cashed it. Well, if people want to make like Ichero and support your efforts in some way, how can they do that? How can they find out about your expansion? You know, guys, a lot of times when you're in the midst of capital campaigns, people think that you're just looking for huge gifts. And don't even wrong.

We love to get big gifts. There's nothing wrong with big checks. But in this case, we need to mobilize as many people as we possibly can because in this case, every buck counts. It gets us closer to our goal. And so if you're interested in supporting and the campaign is called Pitch for the Future, it is online. at www. nLBM.com, and you can make a tax deductible contribution to support this next phase of growth for the museum. Or as I like to say, we're going to build Buck O'Neill a new house. This place is affectionately known as the house that Buck built. Yeah, in New York, they had the house that roof

built. In Kansas City, we got the house that Buck built, the Negro League's Baseball Museum. It's time of us to build Buck a new house. and we hope that those listening will consider making a contribution to support this next phase of growth for the museum. But by doing so, we're going to make history by preserving history. And that's exciting. All right. Well, if people want to give some bucks for buck, they can go to nlbm.com. We will link to that page.

And, Bob, it's such a pleasure to talk to you. We could listen to you all day. I'm going to have to fire up MLB the show once we. Say goodbye to you here so that I can keep hearing your voice. But thank you very much for coming on. It's been a pleasure. It's always a pleasure, guys. Thank you all so much.

I really appreciate it. All right, few quick closing notes. Patreon supporter Thomas wrote in to alert me to a Densby-Swanson quote, as reported by Jordan Bastion of MLB.com. Swanson had a couple of nifty bass running plays in the Cubs victory over the Pirates on Sunday. And after the game, he quipped, had a funny saying in spring training. I always said, if you need the base coaches to tell you, what to do, you stink at base running. My whole life, it was just being taught to run with your eyes up,

run with your eyes on the ball. Thomas sent that to me because of my recent campaign against coaching encroaching. So there you have it. As Swanson says, who needs base coaches? If you need the base coaches to tell you what to do, you stink at base running. You're in the big leagues now. Coach thyself. Or talk to the coach in the doggout between innings, or before the game, or after the game. I was recently reminded of something I said on episode 305 of this podcast. That was back in October. October 2013. I don't remember this, but evidently I said that sometime in the next 10 years, a team would semi-regularly have pitchers throw in-game on their throw days. So between starts, normally a starting pitcher has a throw day, throws in the bullpen. I said, I thought this would happen during actual games. Why waste those pitches? Throw your bullpen session in the game. Obviously, this happens in the playoffs sometimes. Sam evidently said that if it were doable or agreeable to pitchers, it would already be happening. Well, my prediction, if it wasn't Act of prediction did not come to pass. It didn't happen in the next 10 years.

But maybe in the next 12 and a half or so it has, Michael Lorenzen of the Rockies, who has been in the Rockies' rotation, asked to pitch out of the bullpen on his throw days. And indeed, he did. On Saturday, he pitched a scoreless seventh inning in a Rockies' loss to the Padres. Maybe this is just a Michael Lorenzen thing.

He always wants to do everything. He probably still wants to be a two-way player. When he was a reliever, he wanted to be a starting pitcher. Now that he's a starting pitcher, he wants to be a reliever sometimes too. I applaud it. I don't know if it'll catch on. The downside is, of course, that you can't necessarily predict that you will get into that

game on your throw day. And then if you don't, either you'd miss your throw day or you'd have to throw late after the game. It could screw up your routine. Plus, it is more taxing to throw in an actual game than to throw in a bullpen. But these days, what with all the workload restrictions on starters and relievers alike, guys going to throw anyway. Sometimes it might make sense, at least if the pitcher is on board.

Also, we talked about the Mets calling up Craig Kimball. What we didn't note is that they have also called up Tommy Pham. And after Meg and I talked recently about whether it might make sense for some player to charge the mound in a high-stakes game, in order to induce an ejection of an opposing ace, someone would essentially be the sacrificial lamb, go out there, get unreasonably upset, force the pitcher to defend himself and maybe get ejected in the process. A lot of people suggested that Tommy Pham might be the perfect person to do it, just because he is known for popping off at times. And so if FAM charged the mound for no perceptible reason, then maybe people would buy it. It's just fam being fam. I don't know if he would want to go along with that, though. We hope that you will go along with supporting the podcast on Patreon,

which you can do by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild, and signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay ad-free and get yourself access to some perks, as have the following five listeners, Nick Lewis, Andrew, Eric Garrett, Charles Bauer, and Alex Bussie. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to a full weekly Patreon exclusive episode. Our patrons really liked that Dolly Vanderlip conversation on last week's third episode, episode 2464. Check it out if you can. Excellent stories

about another league of their own. You also get monthly bonus episodes, access to our Patreon Discord group, exclusive live streams, personalized messages, prioritized email answers, shoutouts at the end of episodes, potential podcast appearances, fan graphs, memberships, and more. Check out all the offerings at patreon.com slash effectively wild. If you are a patron, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can email us, send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcast at Fangraphs.com. You can rate review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube music, and other podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group at Facebook dot com slash group slash effectively wild. You can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at our

slash Effectively Wild. And you can check the show notes in the podcast posted fan graphs or Patreon or the episode description in your podcast app for links to the stories and stats recited today. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with another episode a little later in the week. Talk to you then. or go with for a wall. I'm strapped on my head for them listen to people talk. I want to hear about baseball with new ones and puffy and stats. Yeah, yeah.

I want to hear about pitcher wins or about gambling eyes. All they want to hear about my child have platycles and the texture of the hair on the arm going out of one's head. Rose, grow. To give me, give me, give me, give me, a fake to me wild. Give me give me a back to the wild Give me give me a back to the wild

This is a fact to the wild