Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 502: Andrelton, Astros, and Independent Leagues

Episode Date: July 29, 2014

Ben and Sam banter about Diamondbacks headlines, Andrelton Simmons, the latest Astros controversy, and independent leagues.

It's all you have, a perfect place. It's gonna happen soon, but not today. So go to sleep, make the change. I'll meet you here tomorrow. Independence Day, Independence Day, Independence Day. Good morning and welcome to episode 502 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from BaseballPerspectives.com. I'm Sam Miller. Well, we'll get to it.

I'm Sam Miller along with Ben Lindberg of Grantland. How are you, Ben? Okay. Who are we sponsored by, Ben? Ben Lindberg of Grantland. How are you, Ben? Okay. Who are we sponsored by, Ben? Baseballreference.com. The Playindex app. Yes. Baseballreference.com.

A tool that I use multiple times today, as I do every day, as well as somebody sent us a question today wanting some advice on a play index query and said that they got it uh at our prodding some months ago and that it has been awesome or something like that so uh listen to that guy yes and use that coupon code bp listen to my paraphrased uh recollection of what that guy said. All right, Ben. Yeah. A few things to talk about. First off, did you see the latest Andrelton Simmons play? I did not.

I was busy today. I saw multiple links to it, kept coming across links to another fantastic Andrelton Simmons play, and I did not make time to watch it. I regret it. I'm trying to find it right now. I've got it. I've got it.

Watch it. All right, here we go. Playing Contact. Oh. That's pretty good I made a play like that once At second base My greatest baseball play ever

Was a weird hop at second That I barehanded Not even really thinking about it Just because it bounced toward my bare hand and I clutched and it ended up in there, which looks like it was more intentional on Angleton Simmons' part, but there was definitely a weird hop that he had to adjust to. Yeah, it looks like it's intentional that he was going to bare hand it maybe, but unintentional that it had to be quite so extreme uh but again

uh you see it it's like the way that he catches it he catches it just as his body reaches the point of maximum torque and spring so that he is able to immediately fire the throw uh to first that's that's what i love about it there always always just seems to be this perfect tension in his muscles. My finest play was, I actually, I think that my finest play ever on a baseball field was just about a year and a half ago. And it was an Edmonds, a Jim Edmonds type of play. Although I wasn't, I don't think I was diving as I caught it. I think that I was just in a full sprint. So maybe it was more of a Willie Mays type play. Not as graceful, of course, but back to the infield.

Fully back to the infield. So that was pretty exciting. Alright. So that was a good play, though. I like that play. So we agree on that play. That is the kind of play, though, that when you said that you made a play like that once, the play that he made is sort of the kind of play that you make either because you're incredible or because you messed up.

And so I thought, I'm not sure what kind of ball player you were, but in my head when you said that you made a play like that one time, I was seeing something sort of different than Hamilton Simmons. I was imagining 12-year-old Ben or whatever you were. How old were you? Yeah, I must have been about that. It was probably seventh grade. Okay, yeah.

And I'm imagining 12-year-old Ben, a ball coming at you, maybe a line drive. You know, one of the toughest play. You know, that line drive that hits about, I don't know, 12 feet in front of you. And I'm imagining you bailing, you know just completely fleeing the scene and but like your hand is the last to leave and it's still like there's this sort of um uh your hand is trailing behind there's a you know an echo of your hand that is still there to catch the ball. And you get it as you tumble out of arm's way. In my mind, it was, in my recollection, it was slightly more graceful than that. All right.

I made some, I made some of those too. Although I wouldn't say I made them, but I had some of those. That line drive that came up just short was a killer. I went to a game this weekend. I went to the Yankees-Blue Jays game, and the final score was 5-4, and it was fantastic. So I'm feeling really good about my choice of favorite final score. It was great. There were no lulls in the action, really. They never went more than a couple innings without someone scoring no one was ever more than a couple runs ahead people kept pulling even and then the other team

would go ahead by a run and there was just constant suspense throughout and it was great so it took me took me a while to arrive at that answer as people who listened to the end of that episode know but i'm satisfied that i came up with the right one. I feel like I might have been answering a different question than you. I was more talking about which score I like to look at, like which score is the prettiest to look at. I don't know that those are the most exciting games. I think I picked 7-1.

It was one of my three choices. And there was a 7-1 game today, and it was boring and awful. Yeah. It was like a terrible game. It was one of the worst games of the year was a 7-1 game today, and it was boring and awful. Yeah. It was like a terrible game. It was one of the worst games of the year. It might be the worst game of the year. We'll know when you write your worst game of the year article. We will.

All right. So, yeah, 5-4 is a fun game, though, generally. I'll take maybe 3-2 would be for a fun game. I'll take a 3-2, maybe. All right. Headlines. It's been a while. I'll take a 3-2 maybe. All right. Headlines. It's been a while. We'll only do the one day.

It's taken on a life of its own in the Facebook group. People are coming up with their own Diamondbacks headlines all day. Really? Yeah. Oh. This is interesting. For yesterday's, there were only three top submissions. And as you know, it's usually it's been 10 the last couple days. This is interesting. For yesterday's, there were only three top submissions.

And as you know, it's usually it's been 10 the last couple of days. But before that, it was five at one point, but three must have been a tough day. Getting more selective or lost interest and stopped submitting them? The day before, there were 10 top submissions. And so I'm going to look at that that day, July 26th, top submissions. You can pick a winner. Okay. All right. Evans says, sayonara with 10th inning blast.

Okay. Domo arigato, Mr. Evans. All right. I'm sensing a theme here. D-backs make long uphill climb to capture philly's flag well that's that's actually offensive right that's a that's a iwo jima is it maybe it is i think it has to be yeah it could be what was the theme of this day? I had to figure out what must have been Japanese Day at the ballpark, right? Who was the game?

It was Dynabacks and Phillies. Promotions 2014. I'm going to see. I think it had to be like Japanese Night, in which case the – so what's the date today? Oh, they don't actually – yeah, okay, here you go. So the – no, nothing like that. What do we think happened in this game? Japanese.

Was there a player on the Phillies or Diamondbacks? There might have been, but I mean, there often is. And for there to be three consecutive Japanese-th japanese themed headlines it can't be a coincidence who's evans who is evans is that nick evans oh nick evans nick evans oh yeah he signed with the japanese team but oh yeah how is that the headline wait it's not the opposite it's not that nick evans just came back from japan No, I don't think so. Oh, yeah, Nick Evans wasn't. Hang on.

Yeah, he went to the Rakuten Golden Eagles. So this was, wait, like. They released him to make room for Jordan Pacheco. So that was the headline? Was there no game that day, maybe? That was the headline of the day in Diamondbacks news? No, it was Saturday. In fact, it was only a rumor, in fact, at this point. Okay, so it was being reported, but it actually has not even been confirmed yet.

In fact, the Arizona Republic has a story today saying that he is not necessarily going to Japan. But that is what these are in reference to. They must be. Nick Picoro tweeted that the deal is official. I don't know. But wait, so did he... Oh, I see. He pinch hit in that game,

and he drove in three runs. Yeah, he had the big hit. Yeah, we knew that, because he said sayonara with the 10-bitting blast. He homered in the 10th. Okay, yeah, right. Yeah. All right.

Long uphill climb to capture Philly's flag. Not on board. All right. Nick's knock seals the deal. Two rhymes. I don't know if you know this, but I actually have a hierarchy of, or hierarchy or taxonomy, or no, a hierarchy of bad headlines. And the only thing worse than a pun headline is a rhyme headline. This has the only thing slightly better than a pun headline is an alliterative headline.

This actually has alliterative and rhyme. Nick's knock seals the deal. Prado's payoff! Exclamation point. Doesn't. No. If it was on the front page and there was a picture. If you were elected as president or something. We have a great one. This is a great one. I hope

to goodness that this is one of the people out there listening. Because this one is so good. D-backs fight valiantly. Hang on, I've got to start again. All right. D-backs fight valiantly to win meaningless games. to win meaningless game.

It's a finalist. D-Backs fight valiantly to win meaningless game. So good. That is really good. Perfect. Oh my gosh. Claim your prize Nora Morse. D-Backs pummel fills

with no remorse. That's interesting. I just said the name no remorse. And then in the next sentence, the words no remorse. Wow. What is this? Is this a code? It seems like it. Benghazi or something.

Seriously. All right. So D-backs Pummel fills with no remorse, and Evans, up from the farm, downs fillies, up, down. And then last one is Prado wears out fillies, fashions come back win. His name's Prado, Ben. Oh, okay. Prado is a familiar name in fashion.

It is. Prado wears out fillies. Fashions come back win. Anyway, we have our first great headline. Well done, No Remorse. That could be the headline for every subsequent Diamondbacks game, too. Every subsequent win. I think it's probably a coincidence that I said the words No Remorse

right after reading Nora Morse. Nora Morse. But I think Nora Morse a coincidence that I said the words no remorse right after reading Nora Morse. Nora Morse. But I think it's Nora Morse is a code name. I mean, that's clearly a fake name. Yeah. So I'm going to give credit to one of you guys. Thank you. D-backs fight valiantly to win meaningless game.

Perfect. Perfect. Top submission. Oh, wait a minute. Ben, Nora Morse was a top submission oh wait a minute ben nora morse nora morse was a top was a top submission the day before what was her submission then was it the same I love this, Ben. I know.

All right. It was. All right. Okay. I'm going to get it out. D-Max. D-Max lousy. That's it.

That's it. D-backs lousy. Top submission. Wait, wait, wait. No remorse won the same day. Top submission and also won. The different one, which was a serious one. D-backs pitchers resuscitate Phillies' moribund offense.

So she won for that one? She won for that one. And then she just decided to. And then also submitted D-backs lousy. Oh, my goodness. If you're listening, Nora, let us know yeah all right um ben you were gonna banter about something else yeah it's just gonna bring up the the latest bad pr for the astros if it even qualifies as that the last time we talked about the astros

which was not long ago we we wondered whether maybe that would be the last time that we talked about the Astros, which was not long ago, we wondered whether maybe that would be the last time that we talked about the Astros for a while. So clearly not. There was another Astros mini controversy. This one involving Mark Appel, who was brought to throw a bullpen session under the supervision of Astros pitching coach Brent Strom. Maybe there were also other coaches, I guess, and front office personnel in attendance. Appel, of course, was also promoted to AA recently.

And whether it was his promotion or his appearance around the Major League Clubhouse, which they seem to have sort of smuggled him in and out of so that no one would actually see him, but people did. Whether it was one of those things or the combination of those two things seems to have engendered some resentment among Astros players who spoke to Jose de Jesus Ortiz of the Houston Chronicle and muttered, many, they muttered, it sounds like they muttered lots of things under their breath while he was around. Lots of discontent in the Astros clubhouse about the fact that Appel was brought in there to throw for people or that he was promoted or that he's being babied or he is being, being given some precedence because of his, his draft pick status.

And it's, it's strange that this is a story. This is one of the stranger Astros controversies, I think. Um, well, the, the bullpen mound is the, the promotion. I don't know that the promotion maybe isn't quite so strange just because i think that anytime you have a you know a player who's a top draft pick i think that's i think there's some simmering level of resentment of all top draft picks all the time yeah although usually not at the major league level i mean one of the reasons that there's resentment is that the top draft pick drives a nice car everybody else drives a terrible car right but at the major league level. I mean, one of the reasons that there's resentment is that the top draft pick drives a nice car and everybody else drives a terrible car.

But in the major leagues, they all drive nice cars. And Appel probably, you know, relatively speaking, drives a terrible car compared to them. I guess a lot of the Astros cars probably aren't that nice. Appel probably has a nicer car than some major league Astros. I would say that, in fact, this is probably not car affected at all. Like I would say that in fact this is probably not car affected at all. I would say that the car is probably not even an issue here. However so there's always this

suspicion of the top pick but yeah usually not at the major league level and it does make you wonder why they're paying so much attention to a guy at high A. Right. Maybe he's aloof maybe he's they just i mean they saw him in spring right they hung out with him in spring he probably

what didn't he didn't he say something about how he was ready to pitch in the majors right then or am i thinking of somebody else i don't recall um but quinton mccracken who's their their farm director said you can't get caught up in that. They need to focus on the job at hand. Getting caught up with what a minor league player does shouldn't affect them, their professionals, et cetera, et cetera. Strange story. I can't tell whether this is a uniquely Astros story. Did the Astros do something here that confirms their reputation?

Were they not delicate enough in massaging their players' egos or something? Or is this just, I mean, this must happen at other times. I can't really recall this being a story. I mean, obviously, yes, there's been resentment throughout baseball history for bonus babies and the like, resentment throughout baseball history for for bonus babies and and the like but i can't really recall a recent story about a prospect's promotion to double a or his his throwing a bullpen session getting on the nerves of the major league team it's it's a weird one yeah it it is a weird one the bullpen mound thing was especially weird that you could

see maybe if they'd let him maybe if they'd let him throw off the real mound that might but i mean who who claims ownership of the bullpen man i don't know that it's it seems like here's the tricky thing with unwritten rules especially unwritten rules like this one where it's, like, within the clubhouse. This is like a how you comport yourself unwritten rule. Like, this is a team hierarchy unwritten rule. It's different than the other ones. And so they're unwritten, right? But they assume that everybody knows them.

that everybody knows them. There's clearly no actual damage done by throwing on a bullpen mount. It's not like he's going to mess up their landing spot or anything like that. It only matters in as much as this is already a pre-established unwritten rule, because then it becomes like, oh, well, they're rubbing it in our eyes. They're breaking this unwritten rule or whatever. But my guess is that nobody knew this was an unwritten rule in the first place. And so you can't hold them accountable for it, right? That's the problem with unwritten rules. If you don't write them down, then nobody really knows what they are.

That's the problem with unwritten rules. If you don't write them down, then nobody really knows what they are. And so you just sort of see offense in all corners with otherwise innocent behavior. This feels like it could only be something you would take offense to if this were an established thing. Like if it's – maybe there is kind of a tradition that minor leaguers don't pitch on the bullpen mound or appear on the field or whatever unless they've been promoted or something like that, in which case Appel might have been an exception and they thought, well, he doesn't deserve to be an exception and he hasn't earned the right to be an exception and maybe that's what it is.

But nobody seems to have ever heard of any of these rules and I certainly haven't. And so if they're not a rule, then that doesn't make any sense. By the way, I didn't find any quote of him saying he was right. I don't know who I'm thinking of. I might have been thinking of, like, Danny Holtson four years ago. What do I know? And so some Astros player said,

so now you get rewarded for having an 11 ERA, and you have two guys down there at Class A Lancaster with two ERAs who can't get called up, suddenly major leaguers are concerned about minor leaguers' welfare all of a sudden. That's a new one to me. So I don't know. It's a strange one. I guess we can just throw it on the weird Astro story pile. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That was a weird one. That's a, that's that, I mean, between that and the Jed Lowry thing, I don't know.

It feels like a couple years ago, I didn't know who their reigning kings of unwritten rule over enforcement were. But now we've got, we've got the, you know, everybody thinks of the Braves. Everybody thinks of the Diamondbacks. Now you've got the Astros. It's a. Do you think of the, of the Braves. Everybody thinks of the Diamondbacks. Now you've got the Astros. Do you think of the Braves after McCann left? I don't know whether he brought that with him or not. Uh-huh. Right. And it doesn't seem like he's brought it to the Yankees.

So maybe there's only two. Yeah. Well, anyway, the Astros, I guess what I'm saying is that they just don't seem like happy people. You know? Uh-huh. Yeah. Like the Diamondbacks, you get the feeling that the Diamondbacks, that's their personalities, and it's like this culture that they're cultivating, and that they've uh you know they've created this like super hyper aggressive us against them mentality but the answer is they just everybody kind of like these

these these two controversies just seem like unhappy people and uh you like you kind of feel bad for them i don't know it's hard to say what do we know not much not much not in this one no all right so ben uh we don't have to talk much about this topic because it's not much of a topic. But I just noticed that in my kind of on my radar, there have been four instances of independent league baseball popping up in the last week. Independent league baseball is having a moment. A moment in my life. League Baseball is having a moment. A moment in my life.

So I just wanted to point out these four and then ask you a couple questions about Independent League Baseball. So one of the four is that Brady Aiken might be pitching in Independent League Baseball, which would draw lots of scouts to games where normally scouts don't have to go. So that would be interesting. One is that Jason Lane pitched in the majors as a starting pitcher on Monday after going through independent baseball to kind of develop into a starter at the age of, or as a pitcher at the age of 37. So he is one of the Sugarland Skeeters made good.

And so then that's two one is that an independent league i forget which one is going to start a whole bunch of experimental rules to speed up the play of game and people atlantic league yeah there you go and people are talking about these as perhaps a uh kind, well, not even league organized, like kind of a, I don't know, a test run is good for, a test for some of these solutions that have been kicked around for years when we talk about Major League Baseball games. And fourth is The Battered Bastards of Baseball. It's a critically beloved documentary that appeared on Netflix in the last couple of weeks and that people have been talking about and that I saw and that you claimed you were going to see, but I guess you didn't.

I didn't follow through on that, no. I came close to being asked to write something about it last week, and that didn't happen. close to being asked to write something about it last week and that didn't happen and then i was planning to watch it anyway because of all the nice things people said and then and then you said such negative things about it that after i read your review i lost some of my desire to see it i still will at some point all right so uh let me ask you a couple of things. One, Jason Lane. Jason Lane was, of course, a slugger for the Astros. Not a great one, but had a couple years. We all knew him. Goes away at the age of 33 or something like that. I don't know, pitches like six innings in the minors on his way out of the sport. He's way out of the sport. And then shows up in Sugar Land, works as a pitcher for a couple years there, gets signed by a big league club, spends some time in the minors,

isn't particularly good, seems to be like a control lefty out of the bullpen, but sort of at the extreme old-for-his-levels kind of guy. Gets promoted despite having pretty awful peripherals in the minors yeah recently uh and then has a couple good innings with the padres they needed an emergency starter and he went seven innings uh today monday allowing uh really no mistakes until i think the seventh when he gave a home run to evan gaddis and lost two to nothing, but it was a good story. It was a dynamite story. It was kind of charming when Bud Black went out to pull him and patted him and did all the padding.

And so here's my question for you, Ben. Okay. We've talked before about how all of these hitters in the major leagues were the best pitchers their town had ever seen, and all these pitchers in the major leagues were the best pitchers their town had ever seen. And all these pitchers in the major leagues were the best hitters their town had ever seen. I mean, these guys are elite baseball players. And the pitchers are also, relatively speaking, really good hitters. And the hitters, relatively speaking, are also really good pitchers. And in a lot of cases, at least in some cases, they made a choice somewhere along the line. Were they going to be a pitcher or were they going to be a hitter? And that's

how they got drafted and that's how they got developed. And they left the other half of the game behind. And because of that, the sort of muscles and skills never really developed. They kind of atrophied. And so they become kind of not good at the big league level. However, they were elite athletes. so lane i assumed jason lane was a great pitcher in high school but was an even better hitter so they made him a pitch a hitter and um you know over the course of 15 years he forgot he'd ever done it and then started started again in his mid-30s and and it didn't come easily he wasn't very good at first it was kind of weird to see him

doing this because he he wasn't good he wasn't pitching at any sort of level where he would be noticed it didn't seem like it was likely to go anywhere but he just kept doing it and he got better and he trained himself and learned how to do it and now he's in the major leagues so ben all every year a hundred guys watch out of the sport as hitters. They're in their mid-30s. They get old. And, you know, they can't do it anymore. Do you think that some of these guys should be doing what Jason Lane is doing? Because when you think about it, their arm is healthy.

They haven't pitched in 15 years. Think of how many bullets they have left. They haven't pitched in 15 years. Think of how many bullets they have left. And we see position players get turned into pitchers all the time in the minors when they lose the ability to hit. I wonder if there's any reason that we shouldn't see it when they're in their 30s and they lose the ability to hit. Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if there are some guys who could do it

more than have actually done it or have attempted it. I mean, maybe once you get to that point, it's too daunting for a lot of players to think about almost starting over in a sense. And it's going back to the minors and the minor league lifestyle and everything. And that's a lot to ask of anyone, but if you're a baseball player really likes playing baseball and you, you'd rather bum around the minors for a while, then, then do something different than, than sure. Um, why not? Why not try it? Because, yeah, there are lots of guys who get drafted

as someone who could pitch, or like Joey Gallo could have been drafted as a pitcher, but he told everyone he didn't want to be. Well, and when Joey Gallo could have been drafted high as a pitcher, I mean, probably, I think I asked Kevin this one time, and I can't remember if I asked it as the hitters being drafted as pitchers. I mean, probably, I think I asked Kevin this one time and I can't remember if I asked it as the hitters being drafted as pitchers or vice versa, but like, I don't remember the question. I don't remember the answer, but like, I think like a, like if you lower it to

40th round pick or 45th round pick, like, I think a ton of these guys could get drafted almost sight unseen as a, as the other one. I mean, they can throw the ball hard and they have good baseball bodies. So they could probably, I don't know how many it is, but of American-born position players drafted into the majors or drafted and then eventually make the majors. If I had to guess, I would guess that if they had been pitchers, maybe 70 to 80% could have been drafted in the 40th round or higher. Well, is the fact that we don't see it happen all that much a pretty good argument against it being plausible? Because I mean, you'd have to imagine that guys would be willing to do it if they thought they had a legitimate chance.

Or are we saying that they just don't recognize that they have a legitimate chance? You'd think they would consider all their options. It's their dream job. It's something they've been doing their whole adult lives. You'd think they would have to be dragged away kicking and screaming if they thought that they had any shot or any promise and could actually get an opportunity to do this? Maybe, or maybe it's just that it's probably, I don't know. You say daunting, but I think of it almost more like it's uncomfortable. These people, they live lives of relative affluence.

They got to be special and play in front of big crowds and get bussed around in really nice buses for a long time or for some period of their lives and so what Lane had to do is pretty pretty humbling Sugarland

I'm going to see if I can find Sugarland's attendance but like I saw in 140 game schedule, they drew 465,000. So they draw about 6,000 a night, which isn't that bad, actually. It's actually pretty good. 6,000 a night's not bad. But yeah, you have to go to Texas and be... So my first experience with... Really, the closest I've ever come to independent league baseball

was when I was at a banquet dinner one time with a guy who had just bought the Fullerton Flyers, who were a golden baseball league team in Southern California. It was like the sort of thing where the league would just stop for a year. There'd be no league for a year or like various teams would just stop existing for a year. So I think Fullerton had maybe hadn't had a team the year before. And so then he had bought it and they were going to have a team.

And I talked to him about like how I would love to just go on the bus with them for three or four days. I was writing for the Orange County register at the time and, you know, just learn like what it's like to be an independent leaner. He's like, yeah, sure. And I thought, okay, so that's different. Like, the fact that they would just let some dumb kid with a tape recorder actually, like, ride on the bus with him

gives you a sense of how unspecial you are at that level. And, yeah, I mean, I imagine that it's, you know, you're probably making a few thousand dollars a season. And, you know, the locker rooms suck. You're playing against nobody that you know in front of, you know, no audience to speak of. And unless you have it in your head that, yes, I'm going to make it to the majors,

there is really no reward you can get out of it. There's no reward along the way, basically, unless you're just super competitive and you just want to beat up on anybody who you can find who will play against you. There's no intermediate steps. There's no really cool incentive to play. You either have to make the majors or it's just pure suck the entire time, I would guess, at least

for probably a lot of personalities. I'm sure there are some personalities who are different than mine who can find happiness wherever they are. But I guess it's just that you're they are. But I guess it's just that you're starting with what seems like a fairly unrealistic long shot of a premise and then saying, you know, the reward might be worth it, but we're going to make it unpleasant the entire way there and there's no payoff guaranteed. So Lane pitched 110 innings for Sugar Land, and then he went to the Pacific Coast League at the end of 2012, and then he went back to Sugar Land, and then he went to the Pacific Coast League at the end of that year, and then he had to go back to the Pacific Coast League this year.

That's kind of an unpleasant three years, probably, for a guy who... How much do you think? Let's play the game, Ben. How much did Jason Lane make? I was wondering. I was going to look it up, but I didn't. Jason Lane, I'll say $6 million.

Okay, I'll say $10.7 million. Okay. All right. It is...7. Okay. All right. It is, wow. We over? Way over. Yeah. 2.1.

Yeah. That's missing a couple seasons of league minimum, so say 2.7. But, yeah, he maxed out at 1.05. That's sort of a bummer. I mean, he had 26 home runs in his third year. Yeah, so I guess the good thing is if you are an old guy who's been in the major leagues before, you'll get a look anyway. You won't just get lost in the system

if you show some promise. There's no reason to bring you along slowly or anything to develop you for the future. You'll just get a shot when you can pitch, I guess, as he did despite not even really convincingly demonstrating that he could pitch. Yeah. So have you ever been to an independent league game? I don't think so.

I haven't either. Do you think you would like to? It depends. If it were one of the sillier ones that did strange things then yeah I mean every team below the majors does silly things I mean you can go to a high A game and it's all silliness

yeah I mean you're not talking about having them play in bathing suits or anything you're just talking about the beer batter and the games in between innings and things yeah I don't know I wouldn't go out of my way to see like the beer batter and the games in between innings and things. Yeah, I don't know.

I wouldn't go out of my way to see most independent league teams. Clearly, I haven't. Yeah, and neither have I, actually. So the battered bastards of baseball is about an independent league team from the 70s, and it has a very sort of strong political position that independent league ball is a moral good and organized baseball, the major league organized baseball, is the villain in this story. They don't respect independent league baseball and they get in their way, and that this team from the 70s that put independent league baseball and they get in their way and that you know this team from the 70s that put independently baseball back on the map is the heroic ones and organized baseball is the villain

for shutting them down uh or you know basically coming back in and reclaiming their territory so do you think that independent league baseball deserves to be lionized is is organized is independently baseball uh uh heroic sport is there anything particularly about it that you think is useful or worthwhile or if they all went away would you feel any sadness in your heart it's it's nice that people have another place to play it's nice when there's a a good story of someone who actually does make that trip from independent leagues to to organize baseball in the majors um that's that's about as far as my fondness goes yeah i i i think that i would like to be a guy who was into it. I think that the way that, as I've mentioned before,

this is something that I've been thinking a little bit about, the fact that baseball is now a pipeline in which every act is geared toward getting a World Series championship for the parent club and that every game is viewed in that context, to me is slightly dispiriting. It makes me slightly ashamed of myself that I am only willing to accept baseball that has this particular meaningfulness to it, the meaningfulness being a World Series, even though I know as a cognizant human being that that also is not meaningful,

that there is nothing intrinsically meaningful about the World Series and that competition is competition. Competition in independently baseball should be just as pure and human and heroic as World Series baseball. And so the fact that I've channeled all of my interests into only this one sliver of the world and only one portion of the world's athletes does kind of make me feel like I've missed the point. And so in that sense, I would like to think that independent league baseball is a fine alternative that we should strive to care about and strive to support

if we can, even in just a small way. On the other hand, I just don't. And I don't know if I ever will, I should probably go see a game and see if I can convince myself to care. I mean, even if you had the choice between seeing a high school game with a player who might be a third-round target in next year's draft or an independent league game, and it was like, oh, your father-in-law was going, and he's like, I've got to i pick a game which one would you pick if the independent league team had anyone i knew

they probably don't then uh yeah i don't know it's going to high school games is it's not the greatest spectator experience really. I might go to, if it were a well-attended independent league park, I'd probably go to that. Okay. Alright, good. We just have to come up with a situation where you have to make that choice. There's my tepid support for independent

league baseball. Well, if anybody in the Bay Area wants to go to an independent league game with me uh let me know and i don't know if there is an independent league independently in the bay area uh because i think the golden league is uh the golden baseball league i think is on hiatus again so there might not actually be one in my area, but maybe I'll go. All right. Okay. Is that it?

That's all I got. Okay. And people can go read your review of the battered bastards at baseball if they'd like to be talked out of seeing it. And as for the Atlantic League's time-saving measures, we actually did a full show on that, I believe, when they announced that they were considering those measures last season.

Oh, did we really? I think so. So go back and listen to that. So I'm looking at, it doesn't look like there are any. Oh, Pacific Association of Professional Baseball Clubs. This might be it. This might be it. Let's see. Commissioner

is Mike Marshall. Two Hawaii based teams playing against teams from Japan and California. Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, California. That's near me. Sonoma. That's near me. Vallejo is near me.

San Rafael is near me. All right. All right. I'm sure you'll get an email. I'm doing it. Okay. So you can email Sam your independent league game invitations and or questions for tomorrow's listener email show at podcast at baseballperspectives.com.

And please support our sponsor, Baseball Reference. Go to at baseball perspectives.com. And please support our sponsor baseball reference. Go to baseball reference.com. Use the coupon code BP to subscribe to the play index at the discounted price of $30 for a year. We will be back tomorrow.