Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 532: Marc Carig on the Mystifying Mets

Episode Date: September 11, 2014

Ben and Sam talk to Newsday Mets beat writer Marc Carig about the ups and downs of the Mets’ season, and their chances in 2015.

Well, it doesn't treat you very good, baby. That's what all my friends have said. But it's not my place to make a stand. Oh, see, my hands are tied, baby. And I hope that you understand. Good morning and welcome to episode 532 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from Baseball Perspectives, presented by the BaseballReference.com Play Index. I am Ben Lindberg of Grantland.com,

joined as always by Sam Miller of Baseball Perspectives. And today we have a guest, and I've been wanting to talk about the Mets for a while. I know it's the middle of pennant race season and the Mets are not really relevant in that respect, but they have some interesting things going on. And as it happens, we scheduled this interview yesterday and since then there's been a bunch of Mets news.

I got my finger on the pulse, the irregular weak pulse of the New York Mets. So today we bring in Newsday's Mets beat writer Mark Kurig, one of our favorite beat writers, to tell us about the Mets. Hey Mark. Hey, how you doing? Just keeping an eye on the pulse here for the paddles. Yeah, right. So we'll start with the news that broke earlier this afternoon. And this is actually your off day that you were interrupting to talk to us. So you've not been reporting the story, but you can fill us in a little bit. There has been a lawsuit that has been filed by the team's former executive vice president

for marketing and ticket sales against Jeff Wilpon and the Mets. So can you tell us a little bit about this? Yeah. Essentially, in federal court, there was a lawsuit filed by Lee Castrogene, who was basically the head honcho for tickets and marketing, alleging that Jeff Wilpon humiliated her for having a baby out of wedlock and ultimately discriminated against her because it led to her dismissal. So she was fired a few weeks ago. She alleges in the suit that very shortly after she had an attorney contact the team

about filing or having a discrimination issue, she was fired very shortly after that. So that's essentially where it stands. The team not too long ago released a statement saying that the charges were without merit. And so that's where everything stands. But regardless of the outcome of this thing, obviously, this ownership group has already been under fire. So this only adds to the list of grievances, I guess, that fans have. Again, regardless of the outcome of this, it certainly, at least on the surface, doesn't speak very well about the culture of the team. Of course, every other team in professional sports, everything starts with the people signing the paychecks. So, yeah, just another black eye, so to speak, is what it looks like it should be, at least initially. Right, and the allegations are, if they are without merit, they are oddly specific.

It sounds like there are lots of particular situations described in this suit that was filed. So if they are without merit, it will be interesting to see how that plays out. But there haven't been, of all the criticisms that have been lodged against Wilpon and against this ownership group, is this one that has been lodged before? Are you aware of this? Have there been any whispers about this sort of treatment going on in this front office? You know, I don't think I've come across anything per se that would fit in this box, so to speak. But, I mean, I will say, you know, there's always been, and I think there always will be, grumblings about the culture in the organization, for sure. You know, whether it's general competence or whatever. You know, just I guess, you know, the culture of the organization as a whole has been something that, and this is pretty well documented, has been questioned in the public view. been questioned in the public view. There have been instances that have come out that aren't very flattering, just about how the business is conducted in and around the team.

Without getting into the details, and it wouldn't be fair necessarily to pass hearsay on, but I will say just overall in general, there's been questions about what kind of culture has been questioned about what kind of, or questions about what kind of culture exists within the Mets and, you know, how much Jeff and Fred and the rest of the ownership group has to do with that. So I would certainly say that, you know, on a pretty fundamental level, something like this would fall into that category, yet again questioning, you know, what kind of culture exists within the ownership group here and, you know, how kind of culture exists within the ownership group here and, you know, how that obviously filters down to the rest of the organization.

To transition to the team on the field or the team that will be on the field potentially next year, there were some comments that came out earlier this week from Sandy Alderson and they were maybe reminiscent of past comments by Sandy Alderson, sort of seemingly setting expectations low for the coming winter. His statement was, it's going to be prohibitive, but improving a team isn't always a function of just dollars spent. Most of the improvement that came from the Mets this year had little to do with the overall spending, so it doesn't equate. We'll have some flexibility. We'll be able to do some things.

We just have to see what's there. In addition to the young players that are coming through, we need to add maybe one or two veterans next year. That's the thing about free agents. You've got to be careful because they don't all work out. The quick fix isn't always the best. So I'm sure that gets Mets fans pulses pounding for the upcoming winter. So I don't know how to evaluate Sandy Alderson and this front office, really, because it seems like no one ever really knows how much money they have to spend, including maybe them. And so you can look at their payrolls and say, well, competitive teams have been built with smaller payrolls

by other teams in other cities. And so theoretically, they perhaps could have constructed a winner under these circumstances. And yet it seems like the goalposts keep moving and no one ever really seems to know where this team stands financially. So do we even know enough to pass judgment one way or another on Alderson and the rest of his front office? That's such a great question. And I guess we'll start from the beginning. Those comments are essentially describing the status quo that has existed here for the last three or four years. And until they actually spend money, and when I say spend money, it's go beyond just reinvesting

funds that are coming off the books. So actually taking their payroll back to somewhere north of $100 million, which is where it hasn't been since their financial mess first started seeping into the public view. But basically, until they do that, they can talk and whatever, and you've got to assume that it's all the same, which is they're going to function on what is relatively a shoestring budget. So the fact that Sandy's out there saying these things publicly, and it's not like you've got to read really tight between the lines to hear what he's saying there, is really

no surprise, because I don't think they've had any indication in the front office that anything's going to change. And so, I think it's clear from the comments they're just going to assume that it is business as usual, which isn't necessarily good business, but it's sort of what it's been and will continue to be. So now that said, you talk about how do you evaluate a front office, which I think is a great question, because if they were operating with what you would typically think is a budget you would expect from your team. And the infamous quote now is Paul DePodesta at the beginning of all of this saying, it's like doing money ball with money,

except it's just been money ball without the money, which is just straight up plain old money ball. But anyway, if that had actually been the case, then I think there's a strong case to be made against this front office because certainly there's been time to make some progress. And really all they've done is just basically put together a bunch of 74-win teams. And while there has been progress in the minor leagues, including with the pitching, very little of it has translated into wins and losses.

You can see above what they've just done in the past. But you can't really evaluate the front office in that regard at all because, as you mentioned, there's really been very little as far as budget and certainly spending and all that stuff. So then what's the fair way to do it? I think the fair way to do it is to go and see what are the situations where you take a payroll that's $140 million or $150 million and whack $60 million off of it. And see basically how fast they can go and rebuild from that scenario without trading some of their better players for various reasons. Now, I think the thing that differentiates this market from pretty much any others, really, is the pressure to win.

Now, you can debate whether that actually exists or not, and that's fine. But the bottom line is the people who own the teams feel it, and the people that make decisions for the people who own the teams feel it. So whether it actually exists or not is sort of like the boogeyman right i mean if if we can prove that he doesn't exist but if people respond to it as if it does then for our purposes it does so these guys are limited by what they can do or can't do financially and they're also limited by what is a constant perception battle here which is pretty ridiculous to say seeing as that they constantly lose that perception battle. But believe it or not, they're actually trying to fight it and win it.

And that also means doing things like not trading David Wright when in the baseball context, maybe they should have. In the same way that the New York Yankees, when they had Robinson Cano, steaming toward free agency and probably knowing that, A, they didn't have a team that was good enough to win it all, and B, they had a very small chance of meeting this guy's demands. The right baseball team to do would have been to trade him. Well, they're not going to do that in New York, not with all the pressure, not with the expectations and sort of the fear they have that if they do move like that, it sends a horrible message and all of a sudden people just straight up stop coming and then that leads to all sorts of bad feelings if you're a sports team owner in New York. But anyway, I think that's what makes it very difficult to evaluate the front office.

So when you factor all that in, in fact they've had no money to spend, they've slashed $60 million from the payroll over the last couple of years and they're limited by the kinds of moves they can make because people here here would flip a bot and go nuts if they traded a guy like David Wright. Well, the only way they can really make progress is to do it slowly, and do it incrementally, and I think they've done that. So I guess that's a long answer for considering the constraints. I think they've done a pretty solid job.

Is that necessarily easy for a fan to sort of buy? I don't think so. And I really don't blame them when they don't. But objectively, when you look at all the stuff they've had to deal with, basically these guys have done a pretty good job of staying afloat considering that they're in a straight jacket. So the thing about the money ball with no money staying is that uh... i don't even really know what i would identify as

i mean the thing about well i don't know what i would identify as character of this front office you sort of new the billy bean front office in the money ball area kind of knew what they stood for in what that meant there was sort of storyline about what they were doing and that's why it worked and i don't i i'm not saying that there isn't

that storyline in the Mets front office, but I don't actually know what it is. And I don't know, maybe there isn't one because, like you say, they have this sort of perpetual limbo and different obligations to their market. But if somebody gave you $2 million to write a book about how brilliant the Mets front office is, and you agreed because it's $2 million. Why not? You don't care if it's necessarily true, but you have to make it convincing. What would you write about? What's the character of these guys?

Oh, man, that's a great question. I wish this were an actual offer. Make it good enough. We have professional listeners. I'll tell you what, man. It really is like... I think these guys do a really tough job

because they're basically having to deal with this unpredictable situation with the finances. They've got to deal with an ownership group that's constantly under fire. And a lot of it's self-inflicted. I think they've just done such a poor job of dealing with the public with these issues. I think what you've got are guys that are just good soldiers, basically, or are trying

to be, because you're never going to hear Sandy Alderson whine about the situation he's in necessarily, even though I feel like he'd be perfectly justified to do so, because what these guys have been asked to do, I don't know if there's any front office in baseball that could just come in here and give him the exact same constraints, you know, be able to make some tangible progress because, you know, he gets hammered a lot, Sandy Alderson, for those free agent signings that he's had. And then people go nuts about Chris Young. I mean, that was like everybody's favorite New York punching bag this year.

But at the end of the day, he lost in one year a $7.25 million contract, which is like getting pissed off that you lost a buck on a lottery ticket when you really look at the context of that deal. So, you know, I think what we're seeing here is a bunch of guys who are trying to be good soldiers and power through, knowing that they've got to go for the long haul and just sort of rebuild without ever saying that they're rebuilding and rebuild without actually doing it,

meaning, again, that there just was no scenario, even though I feel like we can make a very good argument they should have. There was no scenario where they could have traded David Wright before extending him. So, yeah, I think, to me, this is a story, I guess, over the last couple of years of guys trying to fight a battle that ultimately I just feel like there's so many factors standing in their way. You know, they've tried to do it, they've tried to play the long game, they've tried to

make incremental progress. And I think there are lots of parts of the organization where you can see that. But at the end of the day, I feel like there's just so many hurdles standing in their way that expecting anything but this, you know, I don't know how reasonable that would have been, regardless. I mean, I think that it's a front office that is smart. I think they use their expecting anything but this you know i don't know how reasonable that would have been regardless i mean i think that it's a front office that is smart i think they use their resources when they can i think um they think decisions through maybe to a fault you know when you talk to other teams that deal with the mets i think a common complaint that i've heard is that it seems like they're just not acting fast enough and so i think it puts people off from doing business with them in

regards to trades and that sort of thing but um so they haven't been perfect and you know they missed just like every up front every other front office misses and then Chris Young is that guy but I feel like with their constraints I think they fought the good fight and I just feel like at some point though there's too many things that you know they're just gonna have to power through and that's why this this process has taken so long and really hasn't been very much fun for the fans to sit through, that's for sure. So I guess it's being good soldiers. I don't know if that's $2 million, but...

Is there any tactic, big or small, that the Mets do that 25 other smart teams don't do? Any tactic? I mean, I feel like they've got a grasp of, you know, so when you talk about, like, their mindset, I guess. Like, I had a conversation with Sandy recently about, it was in spring training, actually, me and, like, a smaller group of reporters, and the issue was Tommy John surgery

and, you know, the recurrence of Tommy John and why this has become an issue. And Sandy brought up what I thought was an interesting point in that part of the problem with Tommy John research is that it hasn't been all put together. It's been done sort of piecemeal by different people with different interests and really not put together at all. people with different interests and really not put together at all. And I think when he was talking about solving this issue, he thought that one of the things that's got to happen is that those resources get pooled together. And this is where I thought this sort of was an insight of the mindset here, is that it's not just important to pool it together, but then to be smart enough to mine through that giant gob of information and be able to find something useful out of it, be

able to look at it objectively, be able to look at it in a way where, you know, you're some game to having all of this. So the fact that he's at that level of thinking where it is important not just to gather information and also even the importance of gathering information, but then the importance of mining it and doing it in an intelligent way. I think that's something that in whatever forms, teams that win, teams that do well, they all do that. So I think there's certainly a mindset there within the front office and culturally speaking

that I think they share a common DNA with teams that do it well. I just think ultimately there are some tools that other teams may have at their disposal that this one doesn't. Part of that is the freedom to make whatever moves they want and also the financial flexibility that seems to be lacking here. So I promise Mets fans we will get to some questions that make you happy here eventually. But first, David Wright has been shut down for the rest of the year. Is your sense that this is something that he has made worse by playing through or not? Is it something that he has endangered future seasons by trying to play through? Is it going to be a concern heading into next year?

Well, I think it will be a concern heading into next year well i think it will be a concern heading into next year and that's because of who he is what this injury is and the fact that yes he did play through it for such a long period of time now you know i i usually try to steer clear of making like you know medical judgments because i really didn't go to medical school and you know i haven't looked at his tests or anything like that. But I just think because it's a shoulder, because it's something that happened earlier in the year and he obviously tried to play through, certainly there's some concern there.

I mean, I know they're already talking about doing a follow-up MRI. I think part of it, and actually Sandy Alderson said this yesterday, one of the steps they might take to follow up is a die contrast MRI, you know, try to get a better look at that shoulder, and that's only something you can do when you shut a guy down, because it's an invasive procedure, so the fact that there's a die contrast MRI possible, and the fact they've shut him down, I think those things are certainly related, and if they're having to take a look at the shoulder that way, then certainly, I think, you know, it's not necessarily the best sign. So, you know, yeah, I guess that said, you know, moving forward, I think it is an issue because of who he is, how old he is, you know, how much, you know, he's already been through as far as injuries the last couple of years so it is a huge issue for them and um

you know until he comes back and shows that he can produce like he did before the injury i think it's going to be a question whether um you know you've seen the last of david right in his prime because this is seems like to me um you know has the makings of potentially major injury or something that's at least like um you know gonna have to be something you keep your eye on and consider his prominence. Yeah, all that stuff together, this is a major issue for the franchise, and it's certainly one that they're going to have to keep an eye on moving forward. So are they considering moving the fences in again now

so that a weakened David Wright can still hit home runs? Or what is the motivation? You wrote an article about this and how it might favor the team what do you think the the rationale is well i think obviously when you move the fences and both sides are going to benefit because both sides are going to hit home runs but i think what it looks like they're banking on is that if they go into the off season they've got all these young power arms and and you know young power arms that by the way look like they're not the type to give up a bunch of

home runs then i think the calculation is that they can bring those fences and help their guys out and because they've got pitching that's good enough to sort of smother other other batters and that that's a trade-off that's worth making and i think they just happen to have a team obviously where you know branderson's left-handed and that's where a lot of his fly balls end up and that's a tradeoff that's worth making. And I think they just happen to have a team, obviously, where Branderson's left-handed, and that's where a lot of his fly balls end up, in that right center field area. David Wright, when he's healthy, had been a guy that always hit the ball for power the other way.

Travis Darnot, that was always his scouting report in the minor leagues, the guy who could go the other way with some power, and Lucas Duda's left-handed. So it just seems like all of these things are sort of mixed together, and it may work for him. And I think that's what some of the motivation is, is trying to make it a place that's a little more friendly for their own hitters, but also a risk that's worth taking because they feel like they've got good enough pitching

to help negate whatever advantage the opposing team would get from that. pitching to help negate whatever advantage the opposing team would get from that. And I wrote this morning that maybe this is stuff that you can see kind of playing into a larger plan perhaps because if, as you mentioned earlier, Sandy Olsen's talking about not spending much money, that means you're left, if you're the Mets, trying to improve, trying to get more production other guys already have on hand because they're already paying him. And so moving in the fences seems to fit into that goal pretty easily, especially given the fact that their pitching could be good enough to help them get that advantage for teams coming into Citi Field. You mentioned Darno, so we can talk about him for a minute. That's a positive development. So he is leading the league in past balls but he also

does some other things well defensively and he's hit fairly well of late so uh is the is the danger past here are we out of the the woods with him are people still talking about him potentially changing positions well that for that reference you make there about changing positions, that's just... I think managers' jobs and the jobs of field staffs is to talk about whatever scenario. I mean, they're supposed to go through and kind of run these off-the-wall scenarios within the room, just in case something happens or whatever. At one point or another, Terry Collins had one of these discussions with his field staff about moving Travis Darnot to left field.

Here's the thing about those discussions. That's literally just throwing stuff off the wall, because at no point does that stuff usually go upstairs. Until it goes upstairs to the people who actually make those decisions, then it's nothing but talk and chatter for a coaching staff that's just doing its job so in this case there's i mean no travis darnell is not going anywhere they didn't trade a cy young award-winning pitcher for a guy to go play left field do it poorly and also hit uh you know produce offensively below average for that position you know they're perfectly fine with him back there yes past ball issues throwing mechanics have been weird this year um you know

but they value pitch framing and he's very very good at it and so i feel like that's a trade-off they're willing to make and especially when he's hitting and hitting for extra bases hitting for a little bit of power it's an even easier trade-off for them to make. So they value what he brings to the table behind the plate. They value the elite skill that he has behind the plate. And they feel like he's starting to show and has shown that he'll be able to handle major league pitching. So I don't envision him really going anywhere. I think they traded for him, envisioning him to be a major piece as a foundation of the team. And I don't think anything's changed since he's come back and performed the way he has since his demotion to Vegas. Okay. And the guy who maybe has become the best story of the

season, Jake DeGrom, tell us why he was not really on the radar. He was, you know, in the BP preseason prospect rankings, he was listed as a factor on the farm, but not one of the top guys. He was not nationally ranked on any top 100 lists or anything. He's been great. So why was he flying under the radar and how good is he going to be? I think some of that is the fact that they had so many guys

that were on the radar for pitching. So, you know, Noah Syndergaard obviously was a talk of spring because he sort of fits into every box that you think of for like some big-time pitching prospect. Big, tall guy, throws hard. Terry Collins has got a curveball it's a hook from hell all this stuff like i mean it was pretty much every stereotypical thing you could think of for like a big time pitching prospect well you look at jacob de grom and he's none of that

he's skinny got like long hair sort of like gangly um you know exposition player in college uh in a system where it was a bunch of young arms and you know really didn't stand out i think some of that was because they've had they had so many young arms some of it seems like he doesn't fit the typical mold you know he's six foot whatever you know six four six five and like you know you know really really really skinny like he just doesn't look um like a big time pitching prospect. But he certainly pitched like one, so I think he's put himself on the map for sure. He should be the rookie of the year, I think,

despite the fact he hasn't had the hype. He's put up the best numbers for any rookie pitcher, and I would say that I don't see a position player that should knock him out. Just look at the numbers. But I think the Mets certainly see him as a guy that's going to stick around. And, again, he's one of those arms who does not give up a bunch of homers. We were just talking about that with staff, that, you know, high-end guys that don't give up a lot of homers have got that.

He's one of them. I think that's going to make him a factor moving forward. You know, but, yeah, ultimately it's just like what happens oftentimes when someone flies under the radar. He just didn't look the part. But, you know, given the opportunity, and again, he was called up here to be a reliever. Given the opportunity, he took advantage of it,

and here we are today. Dude throws hard, doesn't give up home runs. I thought I was most impressed by the fact that he had initial success, got knocked around a little bit, and since then has settled down and is actually probably pitching better than he has all year long. So pretty impressive stuff. Doesn't look the part that's only flew under the radar, but certainly there's a lot to work with there in the Mets

or certainly viewing him as a part of their future moving forward. So with his success recently and with Wheeler's success recently, I keep hearing about the 330 rule, which is, I guess, the Mets' rule that pitchers can't throw 330 or more pitches over the course of three games or something like that. And usually when I see it referenced, it has some sort of negative adjective before it. Like I've seen it called the weird 330 rule and the notorious 330 rule and the infamous 330 rule. What's wrong with the 330 rule? That seems normal. So why is it controversial?

I don't know, honestly. I mean, that's a great question. I don't know. I think, well, first of all, the rule itself is just a loose guideline. And I don't think one that was necessarily intended for public consumption. So Terry Collins let it slip in one of his pregame sessions, said that there's this kind of rule in place where you're trying to keep guys under 330 pitches, which is all well and good, except it doesn't follow the rule, especially with Zach Wheeler. So, you know, he basically gave people something to hammer them over the head with, and that's what they've done.

So I guess that's the short answer is, you know, there is a rule in place. It's a guideline. It's something that the field staff's talked about. It's arbitrary, like just about anything else with pitch counts and all that stuff. But it's silly, I think, to say that kind of stuff out publicly without checking to see if you've adhered to it. And in Terry's case with Zach Wheeler, he hasn't. And so here's the mess.

And in Terry's case with Zach Wheeler, he hasn't. And so here's the mess. So he basically gave people yet another thing to hammer him about. And it's something I'm baffled by the fact that, A, it wouldn't even come out, and, B, that people keep making a giant deal of it. But, you know, I don't know. Is that the main source of tension between Collins and the front office? Or is that why we're even talking about whether Collins will be back? Or are there other issues there? There's other issues there. I mean,

I think with any other manager, when you're evaluating what they do, I mean, certainly how they handle young pitching is a big deal. So I don't think it's a 330 rule itself and all that stuff. I think it's more so just overall. Like, for instance, how they handle Jairice Familia, the relief pitch who's had such an awesome year for them. That has nothing to do with 330 pitches over three appearances because he's a reliever. But, you know, they've been running him out there a lot, you know. And right about when all that stuff was happening with the 330 rule,

shock of shocks, Jairice Familia had like four days off. And he was healthy, which is just not something he's done much this summer. So clearly the message got through to Terry that it's time to start watching these arms, relievers, the stars, all that stuff, 330 reel or whatever. I think it's just the message has been very clear. Start paying attention to the arms. I think there's certainly other stuff going on there and it's an evaluation they're going to have to make at the end of the year. Um, I think, uh, certainly, you know, managing pitchers, um, but you know, that's a

big thing, but you know, you have to also factor in how it deals with the clubhouse, uh, how it deals with the media, you know, I mean, that's sort of a thing, especially in a market like this, where things like the three 30 rule can get infamous or whatever it's been called. There's certainly a lot more issues at play here than just this weird rule. But certainly managing young pitching is a big one, and for obvious reasons. Because if they intend to win here, it's going to have to be because those guys come through because they just don't have the resources um both in players to trade and in money um to significantly upgrade their offense at least that's my read on it going into this offseason i just i don't see a scenario unless they get very very lucky someone makes a

stupid trade with them or whatever i just don't't see a scenario where they can go out there and get a big bat or whatever people are pining for just because I just don't think they have the chips to do it. But anyway, that's why it's important for them to manage young pitchers. I think that's the big issue, but there's certainly more than that at play. Lastly, if they aren't going to go get a big bat, is the pitching enough, do you think? Will they go into next season, if they aren't going to go get a big bat, is the pitching enough, do you think? Will they go into next season,

if they've got Wheeler coming off the second half that he had, and to Grom, and Harvey back, and Nice, and Cologne, and Gee, and all these guys, is that enough for the Mets to go into next year looking like a legitimate contender do you think I feel like for them to move the needle they would have to do something with the pieces that they can trade and I think in that case you're looking at guys like a John Neese who has a super team-friendly contract um Bartola Colon same deal million. Yeah, he's older and all that stuff.

But he still, for what he produces, that's about right, I guess, from talking to other teams. So those two guys right there, I think people, they've got to really look into trading and trying to make something of on the offensive side. I think because Darnot has had the second half that he's had and because they value what he does behind the plate, that also means a guy like Kevin Pilecki is a guy that they might be looking

to move, or not looking to move, but certainly exploring the possibility of moving. He's a young catcher. He's had a very nice year. He's in AAA now. So I think whether they actually make some improvement or not is going to hinge basically on whether they can take pieces like that, not the young pitching.

Those are their primary chips. If they can take their secondary trade chips and make some kind of incremental improvement somewhere in this offense, and then with whatever they have to play with financially, if they can basically take another Chris Young type flyer except have it work. That's what it's going to take for them to do it. And I'm all ready. That's a lot.

So I think, yeah, they could be better. But they're going to have to catch some luck, which they haven't had. And they're going to have to do some creative things to make something out of their secondary trade chips. I think that's what it comes down to because I think there is a lot to like about the arms. For the first time really since Sandy's been here, they're not going to have to go rebuild the bullpen. I think they've got a pretty good one going in moving forward. So there's a lot of stuff that they've improved at for sure. And I think there are clear improvements.

But that said, for them to make a jump, I feel like there's still a lot of things that have to go right. And that means pretty much having an awesome offseason by making these secondary trade ships into something you can use, by maximizing whatever money you've got, and then also on top of that getting bounce back years from a guy like Curtis and, of course, as we talked about earlier, from David Wright. Again, that's a lot. So I'm pretty skeptical that all that stuff falls into place for him but that's what it's going to take if they're going to make any progress moving forward so it's not all doom

and gloom and lawsuits and franchise stars getting shut down with shoulder injuries there's there's also exciting young pitching and Juan Ligaris playing center field and Anthony Recker being the best looking player in baseball. Ligaris playing center field is no small thing. He's awesome. He's awesome. And, you know, it kills me. I think I don't understand how people don't know more about this dude.

Honestly, I feel like he just doesn't have the same kind of national profile as he should. He's kind of in the deGrom camp of no one really anticipating him being as good as he has been. Exactly, exactly. I mean, I don't know. I've been covering baseball since 2008. I don't know if I've seen a defensive player dominate a game like he can. I mean, it's impressive.

And just from the straight-up standpoint of watching a game for the art of it and for the joy of it, I. I mean, it's really impressive. And for folks who haven't seen it, make sure to because, I mean, really, every time he's in the lineup, he does something once a night where you're just like, wow, you know, that's like one half of 1% of guys that play this game can do that. I mean, that's no exaggeration. The dude is magnificent. And I'd urge people to check him out. Just a terrific, terrific defensive player. We urge people to check you out at Newsday and on Twitter at MarkKarrig, M-A-R-C-K-A-R-I-G. You are a prolific tweeter and an expert mocker of other beat writers, I would say. So people should enjoy that.

And thanks for coming on. You got it. thanks for coming on. You got it. Thanks for having me. I guess you'll send the two million bucks. That's in the mail, right? That's all Sam's idea. I had nothing to do with that. He's financing that. All right. And please support our sponsor, Baseball Reference. Go to baseballreference.com. Subscribe to the Play Index using the coupon code BP to get the discounted price of $30 on one year subscription. And we'll be back with another show tomorrow.