Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 533: Life in an Indy League

Episode Date: September 12, 2014

Ben and Sam talk to 2014 St. Paul Saints pitcher Andy Johnson about what life is like in the independent leagues.

With my black jacket and hair slick sweet. Silver star studs on my duds like a Harley in heat. When I strut down the street, I can feel it's hot beat. Sisters fell back, said, don't that man look pretty? The cripple on the corner cried out, Nichols, for your pity. Them gasoline boys downtown sure talk gritty. It's so hard to be a saint in the city. Good morning and welcome to episode 533 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from Baseball Perspectus.

Brought to you by The Play Index at BaseballReference.com. I'm Sam Miller with Ben Lindberg of Grantland. Hi Ben. Hello. We also have a guest today. And to introduce our guest, I'm just going to read from a press release that uh was issued because it has the information and i think it puts in the appropriate context down to just eight players on their roster just eight players down to just eight players on their

roster the saint paul saints needed an arm they were able to find a hard-throwing right-hander who is a standout at wayzata high school under Terry Steinbach and a Bradley University graduate, Andy Johnson. In high school, Johnson was considered one of the top pitchers in the Midwest as a three-year letter winner, but for Steinbach, he was rated the number two player in the Midwest by Perfect Game Cross Checker. During his senior season, Johnson earned honorable mention, all-conference honors, and helped the Trojans win the conference championship. The Saints roster now stands at the league maximum 22 players,

nine pitchers, and 13 position players. We have with us Andy Johnson. Andy Johnson, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you guys? Great. So Andy is a podcast listener, listens to our podcast, in fact, and was a pitcher this year for the St. Paul Saints in the independent, which league is it? The American Association.? The American Association. The Independent American Association.

The St. Paul Saints, probably most famous for employing J.D. Drew some years ago, and maybe the most famous independent team still active, with maybe the exception of the Sugar Land Skeeters. Do you guys think that's about right? Yeah, I mean, on the team we kind of had a joke that the baseball games, like the sideshow with all the promotions that the teams do and big names that they bring in at the end of their careers or something, it's more about the fan experience and

the ball game going on. What was the date of that press release? When did this happen? July 4th, 2014. Okay. Good question. Thank you. But for you, for you guys, for the guys in uniform, it's not a sideshow at all, right?

You guys are playing baseball as though it's baseball. For a lot of you, I guess it's the highest level you'll play, and for a lot of you, it's the, I guess it's the highest level you'll play. And for a lot of you, it's the route back to a higher level or hopefully the route to a higher level, correct? Yeah. I mean, you know, we've had guys playing the major leagues, triple A, double A, and those guys make up most of the league. And then there's guys like me, you know, I was done with college and basically trying to avoid the real world and wanting to keep playing. And so our manager texted me one night at like 11 p.m.

when I was getting into bed, and he was like, do you want to pitch? And I was like, yeah. So I just showed up at the field the next day, threw a bullpen, and was on the team. Really? Wait, that's not how it – well, maybe is that how it happened? I just showed up at the field the next day, threw a bullpen, and was on the team. Really? Is that – wait. That's not how it – well, maybe – is that how it happens?

Is it more about them knowing you through some network and less about trying out and selling yourself? Or is it – for some guys, is it the opposite? I think a lot of it is the connections. I don't know if you guys remember Al Newman, who used to coach the Twins and play for them. I know him fairly well, and he helped coach the Saints earlier in the year. And when they needed a pitcher, he sort of recommended me, and that's how I got that connection. And they just kind know look for guys getting released from the minor

leagues you know if somebody asks for their release from double a uh you know they'll be on the horn right away trying to nab them so you graduated this year right you you graduated a couple months before you got this text well actually i graduated like two years ago but i took a little victory lap and went back for a fifth year to play. Ah, okay. So how did you know Al Newman? I actually played for him in the Northwoods League in 2013, and then I was his pitching coach this summer. And so that's sort of, you know, I was really lucky that Al knew, you know,

people with the Saints and was able to get me the opportunity. Were you trying to latch onto a team? Were you thinking that you were going to pitch this summer? Or did this just come out of nowhere? I don't know, a little of both. I was kind of like, well, you know, that was my career. You know, I'm going into coaching or, you know, a little of both. I was kind of like, well, that was my career, and I'm going into coaching or going into the real world. But at the same time, I was like, I don't want to. I really like playing.

And so I just kind of let him know. I was like, hey, if you know of anything, just kind of let me know, and maybe we can try to make something work. And luckily we had an off day, i got that tech so it was just kind of like perfect timing so what roughly is the breakdown on the team on the roster of guys who like you are just sort of you know taking it pretty relaxed and you know playing because the opportunity is there but not not really pursuing it or expecting anything of it and what percentage is guys who are super hardcore about you know moving up to the next high you know to

a higher unaffiliated league or getting signed by an affiliated team i think for like uh guys maybe in their mid-20s who have just gotten released from affiliated ball, they're the ones taken seriously because they're still young enough that they might have a shot. You know, guys who are, you know, close to 30, they know that they don't have the best chances. So they're kind of doing this, you know, if they're trying to finish their college degree online. Or, you know know just they can sometimes they get paid more in these leagues than if they were to sign a minor league deal with an affiliated team um but i'd say most everybody is you know just holding on for that one chance that there's

a set of eyes in the stands and they're like uh we need this guy but you weren't thinking that there was going to be a set of eyes in the stands who saw that. That wasn't really part of your calculus, if I'm understanding it right. Yeah, a little bit. But then I went and played again. I always had the dream of playing affiliated ball. So now it's kind of creeping back.

So I don't know. I'm going to try to play another year and see where it leads to. So I'm looking at the roster, and I don't know who was on the team when you were. I imagine there's quite a bit of roster movement, but it looks like the lone former big leaguer on the team was Anthony Claggett. Once traded for Gary Sheffield. Right, and veteran of three and two-thirds major league innings did Anthony Claggett just hold court on this team and tell everyone about every pitch he threw during his three and two-thirds innings no actually he didn't he was you know one of the coolest guys um and you know he's he's a veteran

so for me who you know I'm just getting my feet wet and you know quote-unquote pro ball. He was one of the guys who really helped me out and was sort of like a leader, but he also knew how to have a pretty good time. So what does set – I mean, I would imagine that the hierarchy in the clubhouse would almost perfectly correlate with the highest level that you have previously played. Is it like that or oh yeah it is like on like you know we bust everywhere and of course you know it's rookies doubling up on the bus you know veterans they get a lot more leeway than we do if there's little kid stuff it's always the young guys that sort of stuff so that the oldest player on the team this year was 31.

Do you know who the oldest player in the American Association is still hanging on? You know, there was a reliever for the team up in Winnipeg, and I think he was like 38 years old. And, you know, like he was throwing like 85 miles an hour, and he actually did pretty well against us, so I can't talk, you know, he was throwing like 85 miles an hour and he actually did pretty well against us so i can't talk you know too much smack but i know there were some older players and i think he was the oldest that we played so i just went to i just went to my first independently games last month and uh wrote about it and i like i just I mean, to me, it was like the happiest place ever to be. It was pure. It was fun.

It was both the game and the sideshow, and you just had this sense that you were in this parallel universe away from Affiliated Ball where you were going to wake up from it, and so the stakes were low, but they were in the moment, and I just thought it was great. But while I was there, I noticed a lot of details that to me were charming and that to me made me very happy and to me made the experience very pure and lovely. But I could see how those same details from a different perspective would just be depressing and would make it feel

like this sort of, like if you wanted to, if your perspective was this way, your philosophy was this way, you could make it feel like it was this sort of dead end joke. And I, so it's all about perspective. And I didn't, I had the perspective that this was beautiful and wonderful and it was love and it was great. Is there much moroseness though is there this melancholy that inflicts some people in the league who just look around and think this place is is kind of shitty um i don't know i mean i think we all have like a lot of fun playing it. And, like, at our games, you know, we get almost, you know, some games we get almost 10,000 people.

And with all the HAVA going on in the stadium, I mean, that makes it a lot of fun. And, you know, I've worked for some affiliated team or some affiliated minor league teams, and it's just not the same atmosphere. I mean, it was a lot of fun you know with actual people in the seats and uh um all the antics going on made it unlike anything else what would lead to attend to attendance spikes like i i assume that the pennant race was was not really a factor for most of the saint paul community so was it all the like the strength of the St. Paul community. So was it all the strength of the promotion would determine how crowded it was? Yeah, they did Charlie Brown bobblehead.

And I showed up to the park, I don't know, five hours before the game, and there were already people lined up just to get that bobblehead. Bill Murray is actually an owner of the team I played for. And so for the last game of the year, before we move into our new stadium next year, he came. And I mean, it was, it was the largest crowd in Saints history. So it's real, you know, it's all the promotions that bring the people out.

And so the team's former principal owner and still an owner is Mike Vec, son of Bill Vec. I'm a big fan of his, and the apple did not fall far from the tree with Mike Vec. Did you get to know him at all, or is he a presence around the team? Does he interact with the players? He never interacted with the players, but I know he's at most of the games. And all these crazy ideas are his. he's at most of the games and you know all these crazy ideas are his and um there's actually there's actually like a a building behind the right center field wall where firefighters train and from there in the during the last game in like the middle of the seventh inning fireworks started going off from the top of this building.

And smoke is absolutely covering the outfield. So the outfielders can't see. And then comes down a banner that says, Disco Still Sucks. So yeah, he definitely has a presence there. And were there any other crazy between innings promotions that you recall? Or any other strange Saints traditions that people would, would find funny? Um, there was a legless player for the saints. Right. Um, and for the last game, uh, he showed up and was in uniform. Uh, he didn't play, but he took batting practice with us. So that was, um,

that was really interesting. I mean, you know, that's the kind of stuff that gets on TV, and Mike Veck is really good at doing that. You know, we had the first female professional pitcher, I think, and, you know, Daryl Strawberry, that sort of thing. So, you know, it's quite – I mean, I had a lot of fun, and those promotions make the had a lot of fun and uh those promotions make the game a lot more enjoyable especially for a reliever when we're just sitting in the bullpen

you know not really watching the game that's kind of what we watch do the promotions ever um what am i thinking of what's the word i'm thinking of do they ever infringe on the field of play like are they ever like i for instance one of the games I saw, Eric Burns was playing as a charity sort of stunt, but he was actually in the game. Are there ever promotions where you guys as players who are trying to take this seriously sort of go, this is messing with the integrity of the game or anything like that? There was one, and it was like atheist night at the ballpark and so they took the s out of saints and we're the ain't and that and like

it's we've they've done it for a few years now and so we're the mr paul ain't and that actually rubbed people the wrong way but i mean i thought it was really funny it got a lot of people out to the park but you know there was some uh you know and even in the clubhouse some guys were like i really don't know if i should play on atheist night like i don't it was kind of like some people were divided on what to really think about it you mentioned at the beginning that you guys joke that it's, you know, you're the sideshow, the play itself is the sideshow. When they joke about that, is it like a resentful joking

or is it an amused joke? Or I guess it would vary from player to player. Yeah, it's sort of from player to player. I mean, we realize that it's, you know, not Major League Baseball or anything like that. So you're not just going to get people to a game just to see a game. You know, we realize that this is just how indie ball is. And our team's really good at what they do. So they get a lot of numbers. And, you know, we just kind of laugh about it. I mean, most of us thought it was pretty fun. What was Midway Stadium like, the stadium that just closed this year?

And what's the new one, CHS Field, that's opening for next season? What's that going to be like? Well, I grew up going to Saints games. I go to one or two every summer with my family and friends. They've got a big parking lot where you can tailgate and go watch the game. into Saints games like I go to one or two every summer with my family and friends and you know they got a big parking lot where you can tailgate and go watch the game and it's basically just a city field and nothing special and we used to think it was so fun being able to go tailgate and go to these games but then as a player you get inside the locker room that was

you know probably the smallest locker room I've ever been in. The training room was like my locker. I kept getting bumped into with guys getting on and off the training table and stuff. Then you get onto the playing surface, and it was kind of a dump. We were like, let's just tear this place down right now. The new ballpark is going to be amazing. It's, you know, 40-some million dollars and got locker rooms and weight rooms and all this, you know, all these amenities. So we're happy to see Midway go and the new field to be put up.

So what is your status then? What was the conversation at the end of the year? Did you make plans? Did anyone discuss whether you'll be back? Do you just sort of sit and wait or what's the offseason like? Yeah, you just kind of sit and wait. You know, like we were three games up in the wild card and then went on a nine game losing streak and just kind of tanked the rest of the season. Like it was almost historical how kind of bad it was. And so after the season, our manager just kind of wanted to, you know, season's done, get out. Went around and shook everybody's hand, said have a nice offseason. And that was like it.

And so afterwards afterwards I'm sitting there and you know there's a few older guys around me I'm like so what now like you know what's going on they're like well pack up your stuff get on the bus the season's over and I was like well what about next year and they're like you'll see so I'm like all right I guess I'll just you know hang tight yeah I'm sort of glancing it looks like I mean this I'm not all the way down the roster but it looks like maybe half the players

come back maybe a little less than half the players come back the next year probably less than half the players come back so I guess for I mean it probably with the amount of roster turnover the manager assumes that his job his relationship with you guys is pretty much over, that most of you won't be back.

Yeah. It's not exactly like you don't build that team over the course of 12 years with various minor league systems and guys getting experience. I mean, you bring them in when they're helpful, and then they either play their way out on the good way or they play their way out in a bad way, right? Yeah. I mean, with the new stadium, I think he's going to be able to get a lot, you know, almost any player he wants.

But something that helps me is... Mike Trout. Maybe. Well, maybe he'll go after... Oh, I'm forgetting his name. The number one overall pick who said he wants to play oh yeah yeah i mean brady aiken brady aiken yeah so there's his there's his newest target but uh what helps me is that you need to have four rookies on the roster at all times in this league so

it's really hard yeah because you're a rookie for your first two seasons, actually. It's kind of crazy that way. Give us a scouting report. Tell us what you throw, how you play. I throw fastball, slider, and occasional changeup. My slider is my go-to pitch. There will be games I'll throw it 80% of the time. Wow.

is like my go-to pitch there will be games i'll throw it 80 of the time wow i mean like in college i'd have games where like literally nobody could hit it and i think one game i threw 39 pitches and 38 were sliders i mean it was like they knew it was coming and it still worked a little bit um and then my fastball it'll get up to 94, but usually sits 89 to 92 I'd say most days. Command control issues? Oh, yeah, big time. You know, obviously I'm a listener to the show, so I kind of know a little something about stats. And, you know, I looked at mine after the season

because in season i refuse to look at them i have a pretty good idea but i don't want to make it any worse and so after the season i looked and i saw like my walk rate and everything i was like oh my gosh i was like no wonder i haven't gotten any calls i know why now no but uh you know so that's something that over the off season i'm gonna work on and um i mean if you looked at my walk rate you can see it can only get better doesn't get much worse uh ben ben ben has uh ben ben has a huge crush on you now for one reason. Yeah, I couldn't help but look at your stats also, and I noticed that you pitched in 10 games, you finished seven of those games,

and you did not get a save. So you are the Ryan Webb of the American Association, as far as I can tell. Awesome. Well, you know, you can add me to that list, I guess. The sad thing is I finished most of those games when we were, like, losing. So I had, like, no opportunity to go to the safe. So when you guys went on your losing streak,

I mean, we talk on this show about chemistry and about the kind of mystery of chemistry, I would say more than the average sabermetric podcast does. Because, you know, it's a weird thing. It's a weird thing that we're interested in, fascinated by, and can't measure. At a level like that, where none of you guys know each other, or, well, some of you know each other. You've played against each other maybe at various spots.

But you have old guys, you have young guys, you have guys who made the majors, guys who will never play higher than this, and you're only together for a couple of months getting paid almost nothing for uncertain stakes. So when the losing streak starts, does the chemistry just completely melt down? Was that a factor for you guys? Does that take on a big part in the coaching stat and what the coaching staff is trying to do or if i can provide you an alternative narrative uh is it more like everybody kind of appreciates that they're just sort of there for

a couple months they're making it through without causing any problems doing the best they can for their own stat line and don't take it too seriously? I'd say we actually took it to heart a little bit. I mean, as far as chemistry goes, after a game, obviously, you're all going to be bummed that you lost and there's not going to be music bumping in the locker room and stuff. But you show up the next day and you put it past you. You've got to go out and play that game, and that's the only one that matters.

But we were riding an eight-game winning streak at one point, and it was like you couldn't wait to get to the park, and you just kind of had that feeling like, well, you know, oh, shoot, we're down by three in the fifth. You know, who's going to hit the, you know, double that puts us ahead later in the game, that sort of thing. But then when you're losing, it's kind of like, how are we going to screw it up?

And so, I don't know i play it's like you said there's no way to measure it but you can definitely there's definitely a different feel at the ballpark um when things aren't going well do you think it affected the way that guys played or did it just affect you know how happy they were with life during those days? It might affect some guys differently. I know when I go out there, I ultimately have control of what happens. If I make a bad pitch and Rene Tassone takes me deep, well, that's what he's supposed to do. It doesn't matter if we're winning or losing. But I wouldn't say people really beat themselves up over it.

Trying to come up with a major league comp for you based on your repertoire and your 10 games and your height and weight. Well, you had a pretty good, you actually had a pretty good, you had a better than league average ERA. I actually thought, I skipped this in the press release, but I thought maybe the cruelest thing that the St. Paul Saints ever did was they actually listed your college stats in the press release. Oh, my gosh.

Right? Much worse. I know. You know, I read that and I was like, I can't believe this. Like, why would they put that in? The 23-year-old pitched for the Bradley Braves and was 2-5 with a 7.65 ERA in 60 innings. He walked 42. Like, find other stats.

Opponents hit 332. But the American Association is a total offensive league, right? I mean, there were, on average, 10 runs scored a game. I mean, it was, I imagine it was a brutal place to pitch. Uriare was better than league average. Yeah, there, I mean, there were some places where it was like, oh, there's, you know, a fly ball to center. Oh my gosh, it just went over the fence. Like, it was unbelievable. But, you know, our field wasn't so bad, but it's definitely a hitter's league. And I think that might have something to do with a lot of these pitchers are kind of on their, you know, the end of their careers.

And might not have the same stuff. And, you know, these hitters are good. You know, I faced a handful of major, you handful of guys who played in the major leagues, and the parks sometimes don't help you either. So is there any difference in the style, in the way that teams choose to play, the styles they take on? Is there any attempt at exploiting the environment, the level of play? Is there more bunting? Is there less bunting, more base stealing, more of a certain type of player? Is there any basically differentiation

between the teams in terms of the style they choose to play? Yeah. I'm not quite sure what every team does, but I know the team in Gary, they play what's considered more of a college game where they've got small guys who put the bat on the ball they get a guy on they bought him over that sort of stuff um and with the saints um you know we never bought to we hardly stole a bag um and we have pretty good power i'd say and we were big on playing shifts too. You know, we keep a chart of every hitter we face and, you know, we don't have the at bats from, you know, when these hitters face other teams, but, you know, just against us, we kind of put on our

own shifts and that actually helped a lot and saved us quite a few hits. So how many times do you face the same people? How large a sample do you have to base that positioning off of? Well, you know, it's hard to say. I can't really remember. All the games kind of blend together at some point. You know, some days you, like, wake up and you're like, where am I? But you face hitters a lot i mean if you play them three times uh you know in a series you know that's at least you know 12 at bats usually and

i think we'd play each team probably close to a dozen times ben do you have one yet al albuquerque oh that's a good one he's leading the majors in slider rate. Slider rate, yeah, absolutely, yeah. He's throwing 62% sliders. He's not the sharpest control guy, and he is 6 feet 195. You're listed at 6'1", 195. So I like this comp.

That is a good comp. Is your slider more of a cutter? Throws a little bit harder than you'd possibly. Would you say your comp. Is your slider more of a cutter? Throws a little bit harder than you'd be possible. Would you say your slider's a little bit more of a cutter or is it a true slider? Depends on how I throw it. There'll be times I throw it more like a cutter and it'll be like in the mid 80 range

and then there'll be times where I come more around the ball and sort of get more depth to it where it'll be $79.80. Do you guys all get paid the same amount or is there a huge discrepancy? Are they using like 30% of their budget on one guy and then knowing they can get you to sign for sunflower seeds? Oh yeah, there's guys who make I think $3,500 a month and then I was making like $800. Oh, that's actually not nearly as big of a discrepancy as I might have thought.

Yeah, so I think $3,500 might be the maximum that you can give a player and $800 is the minimum you can give a player. So that's pretty much all the rookies. And then I know there is a salary limit. I'm not sure what it is, though. You would have played for less, though, right? Well, I mean, yeah, I guess so, because going into there, I never asked, how much am I going to make?

I just kind of showed up and was like, where do I sign? If there are any independent league GMs listening, Andy just ruined his leverage, but he'll play for you for peanuts. So just looking at the names and some of the birthplaces, it seems like this is not an ethnically diverse league, I guess, or at least team. Do players tend to come from the area that the team is in? Are there a lot of foreign players?

Ethnically diverse? Oh, you're saying because there's not Latin names. Yeah, there are a couple, but not a lot of foreign players? Ethnically diverse? Oh, you're saying because there's not Latin names. Yeah, there are a couple, but not a lot. Okay. Yeah, you're right. There's not many Latins in the league. You know, there's a handful of them. And most of the team is from around the country.

But then in the middle of the season when you're in a pinch for a pitcher because you're down to eight players, you can't really look that far. So you might look for the kid with a 7.5 ERA in college ball and just have to take him. And how far apart are the teams in this league? How long were the rides that you were taking? El Dorado, Texas is in our – so yeah, you kind of of look out your hotel room and you're like, there's Mexico. But there's teams in Winnipeg as well, Wichita. And then we do an interleague kind of thing with the Can-Am League and go out east and play in Quebec and stuff like that.

You just missed playing with Mark Hamburger. I know. I went and watched him last year, and oh my gosh, he was unbelievable facing these guys. He's sort of that same weird story. He showed up to a Twins tryout camp when he was in high school, and that's how he got his start. Do you have a feeling of what the level of

play is i i i hear things and then i hear other things that there seems to be a lot of disagreement about what the quality is do you have a sense of what affiliated level it would be the equivalent of uh since i don't have the affiliated experience i sort of asked around and guys said it was kind of like most teams are either a pretty good high A team or a not very good double A team. So, you know, it sort of depends team to team, but, you know, somewhere between high A and double A. With a lot, I would think with a lot more variance, though, right? I mean, because if you go to see a high A game, an actual high A game, most of the players are high A quality, roughly. Whereas if you guys were at a high A level, you, as one example, were not. So I imagine some players could probably step into the majors and at least do what BJ Upton is doing.

And then some guys like you are less of that. Yeah, it really does depend on the player. We had some guys who could probably go play double-A right now, and, you know, if you put me in double-A right now, I don't think I'd be able to have a whatever, you know, a four-something ERA like I was able to get away with this summer that's that's got to be pretty intimidating right i mean had you faced anyone as good as the best people that you faced in this league was that scary yeah you know when you're in college

you know i faced uh um casey gillespie this spring, who was a first-rounder. But besides that, you don't really face guys who, you know, when they step up, you're like, oh, no, like I don't want to face this guy. And then one of my first games, I don't know if you remember Reggie Abercrombie. Yeah. You know, he steps into the box, and he's towering and huge. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like don't make a mistake and of course i made a mistake and you ripped a double so yeah it is kind of intimidating at first but then you realize you know he's in the

same spot as a 23 year old undrafted free agent so uh you got a shot just throw it over the plate and next time i faced him i got him to ground out on a slider. You seem fairly chill about this, so I was going to say, what's the high point and the low point? It doesn't sound like there's a low point. Is there a low point, or were you pretty much happy the whole time? The low point is probably just towards the end of the year, and you know you're not going to playoffs. So it's like, you know, I just kind of want to, you know, play my game of catch and go

sit in the bullpen until my name's called. But I mean, I get, I still get to play baseball and I get to call myself a pro baseball player. And so, you know, I really enjoy it. And if it leads to something, it does. If it doesn't, you know, at least I can say I gave it a try. I mean, I just try to have fun with it since I get to play baseball. You have a baseball reference page. I mean, that's in the bank. That alone is enviable. Can we sponsor this?

Can this be effectively wild? There's no sponsorship page. It doesn't look like it. Oh, maybe. No, it doesn't look like there's no sponsorship page. It doesn't look like it. Maybe. No, it doesn't look like there's a sponsorship page for Andy Johnson. It's an oversight. See if we can get Sean to let us do that.

So are you looking for an off-season job, or are you hoping that you won't have to and you're just going to wait for a while for that to be the case, to get a text from someone else? Or would you consider going abroad somewhere to play? Well, right now I'm just kind of doing lessons and coaching travel teams, that sort of thing, which is what a lot of players do.

It's like that or go work retail. And I think going to give a pitching lesson sounds a lot more fun than going to Target and being a cashier. So you could still give pitching lessons to the customers. Yeah, I suppose I could down one of the aisles. But yeah, that's sort of what I'm doing. And the Twins have a career fair in a couple weeks, so I'm going to go to that. And if something magically happens where I'm like, I would definitely give up playing baseball for this, then I would do that.

But I don't know. I just am really enjoying playing and going to try to do it for as long as I can. All right. So, I don't know. Do you want to plug something? Are you on Twitter? Yeah, I am on Twitter. I don't tweet about baseball that much, though.

I did want to plug one of my things, maybe. Plug some of the articles I've been working on. Yeah, I don't know. I used to write a blog called Pitchers Duel. But then nobody really read it. So a high school friend and I, we wrote it. And we didn't get that many hits. So if you want to follow... PitchersDuel.blogspot? Is it PitchersDuel.blogspot? Yeah. Awesome. You're still posting. August 14, 2014.

That wasn't me. That was not you. That was Niles J. Yeah, so if you want to follow us on Twitter, it's at pitchers underscore duel. All right. I will do that if you promise to update us on your baseball career via that account. All right. I suppose I can do that.

All right. Okay, well, thank you for telling us about the independent league life. Thank you. And we wish you the best of luck as the official independent league player of Effectively Wild, or maybe just official pro player of Effectively Wild. Well, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I listen every day, and I enjoy it. wild well thank you yeah i mean i listen every day and i enjoy it oh thank you all right uh wait wait were you the only one on your team that listened

every day though oh you know it's kind of funny i get listened every day i'm not i live you know like when we're on buzz trips like i'll just kind of stockpile episodes so that I have something to do. I sort of keep it a secret because if you're like that stat guy, people label you as that. So I was just kind of sitting there quiet listening to the shows and not really saying a whole lot about it. Well, we are the thing that you hide from your friends, I understand. Yeah, sorry. Are there any, like, is there any statistical stuff that you can do? Like, is there any data available somehow in this league that is not just the basic stats that you weren't looking at anyway

because you didn't want to know, I guess, until it was over? But can you look up, I don't know, pitch sequences or how a certain hitter is done against certain pitch types or anything like that? Is that sort of information kept anywhere? I know it's kept, but it's given to all the coaches. They never let players see any sort of stats. And I think that's just, you know, like Al Newman told me, he never lets players see

stats because it'll go right to our heads. And he's right. Because he might think, oh, you know, my ERA is right here. If I throw a couple scoreless innings, you know, it'll be to where I want it. And so we actually don't get any kind of stats. They don't talk to us about stats or anything like that. But I know it's available for all the coaches. All right, cool. So thank you for doing this again, and best of luck. Hope that you catch on somewhere soon. Thanks, guys.

All right, so that's it for this week. Please support our sponsor, Baseball Reference, by going to baseballreference.com, subscribing to the Play Index using the coupon code BP to get the discounted price of $30 on a one-year subscription. Please join the Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash effectively wild. Send us emails for next week's listener email show at podcast at baseballperspectives.com and rate and review and subscribe to the show on iTunes. Have a wonderful weekend.

We will be back on Monday.