Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 590: How Much Should Minor Leaguers Make?

Episode Date: December 19, 2014

Ben and Sam talk to pitcher-turned-attorney Garrett Broshuis about his class-action lawsuit seeking higher wages for minor league players.

When you serve me and I'll serve you Swing your partners, don't get screwed Bring your lawyer and I'll bring mine Get together, we could have a band I'm gonna play the sue me, sue you, blue Good morning and welcome to episode 590 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from Baseball Perspectus, presented by the Play Index at BaseballReference.com. I'm Ben Lindberg of Grantland, joined by Sam Miller of Baseball Perspectus, and today we have a guest. He spent six seasons as a pitcher in the Giant system, which he wrote about frequently at Baseball America and the Sporting News, among other places, but that is only indirectly why we are talking to him today. We are really talking to him because he took the LSAT three days after his last season in 2009 and became a lawyer.

after his last season in 2009 and became a lawyer. He's now an attorney in St. Louis, where he is leading a class action suit against Major League Baseball, arguing that minor league players are not fairly compensated. His name is Garrett Brushouse. Hey, Garrett. Hey, how are you guys? Thanks for having me. Yeah, sure.

Tell us a bit about the background here. So you filed this suit in February and then later expanded it. It's called Senny vs. MLB, named after a former minor leaguer named Aaron Senny, but you have since expanded it to include many players. So how many players are now involved and are they all former players or are there any active players involved? Sure. I'll give you kind of the high level lay of the land a little bit. So like you said, we initially filed it in February. We started off with three former minor leaguers,

Aaron Senne, Oliver Odle, and Michael Liberto. And we named the Office of the Commissioner of Baseball, commonly known as MLB, as a defendant along with Commissioner Seelig. And the three major league teams that had employed those three minor leaguers, the Giants, the Marlins, and the Royals. One of the things that a lot of people don't realize of course your audience is probably a little more baseball educated than the average sports fan but a lot of people don't realize that the major league team is who actually employs the minor league guys and signs the paycheck at all times so those three major league teams and then about a month later, we expanded it to 17 former players. And then we expanded again in April to 32 former players. And then all 30 major league teams were defendants by then,

along with Commissioner Seelig and MLB. They are all former players. One player was technically still under contract, Matt Lawson, at the time that he joined the lawsuit. But he was making the decision to retire at the time that he joined it. And so a lot of our listeners have some sense of this, but for those who don't, what do minor leaguers make? Very little is the quick and easy answer. So minor leaguers are only paid during the championship season. That's what the contract and major league rules say. The minor leaguers are only paid during the season. All the salaries have to start at the same level, which is $1,100 per month.

And so that guy that is just drafted in June and goes out and plays the short season for a few months, he's making $1,100 per month just for those few months. He's making a few thousand dollars. And then the season ends, and he's expected to do all kinds of stuff in the offseason. And he's given these workout packets and working hard for the team all offseason long and trying to get better and doesn't get paid for that. Then he goes to spring training, and he's working his tail off for 40, 50 hours a week during spring training, and he's not paid in spring training at all either.

That's what's really tough on these guys is to expect them to go to spring training at all either and and that's what's what's really tough on these guys uh is to expect them to go to spring training and to work that hard and not pay them at all and then all of a sudden once the season begins and they make a full season team they got to scramble to to find a place to live and pay that deposit on the on the apartment and it's it's it's impossible for these guys and when you say they start at $1,100 a month, the teams basically have no freedom to pay more than that. Is that correct? If the Giants, for instance, wanted to pay more than the other 29 teams,

they don't actually have that choice? So what we believe is happening, and if you look at the contracts, what they say is everybody is paid the same amount the first year. And you go on minorleaguebaseball.com's website, for instance, MILB.com, and it actually says that all players start at $1,100 per month. So yeah, that first year, no negotiations at all. If the Giants wanted to pay more, if the Yankees wanted to pay more,

they simply can't. After that, there is a little freedom. What we believe is going on after the first year is we believe a memo is sent around that's sort of like recommendations for each level and for each year of experience. And teams are pretty similar across the board. I've looked at a lot of contracts now, and it's pretty similar across the board, no matter looked at a lot of contracts now and it's pretty similar

across the board no matter if you're playing for the Marlins or if you're playing for the Royals. You're going to be making pretty similar money if it's your first year in AA no matter which organization you're playing with. And have you, for the purposes of establishing what the current hourly wage is, have you tried to determine what constitutes an hour worked or what the standard work week for a minor leaguer is? Because it can be tough to define, as you alluded to, exactly what parts of the job are work. You know, is exercising work? Is spring training work? So how have you tried to quantify that? Sure.

So, yeah, we are alleging that all of that is work. Teams are requiring these guys to do it. If they're requiring these guys to do it, they should be paying them for it. If you are working in any other job and they send you to do some training, they have to pay you for it. Unless there are some odd circumstances involved, they're going to be paying you for it. So when you look at what the minor leaguer actually does during the season, for instance, they aren't just showing up 15 minutes before a ball game starts

and throwing on some cleats and running out to the field. They're getting there hours and hours before the game begins. So a lot of times guys will get there 1.30, 2 o'clock for a 7.30 game, and they're doing some early work and working with the coaches on their swing, working with their coaches on their pitching mechanics, fielding bunts, doing all kinds of things. And then, of course, they take batting practice, and everybody's involved in batting practice,

and they go inside the clubhouse, and you're doing a lot of other stuff to prep for the game then also. And even before the game starts, you might be putting in five hours or so before the game even begins. And, of course, the game takes three hours or so. So on any given day, a minor leaguer might be working at the ballpark eight-plus hours. Now, of course, your listeners are familiar with the schedule

and know that those guys aren't getting many days off. Generally, it's one day off every two or three weeks. It's probably more common for guys to work seven days a week than it is for them to work six days a week. If you're working eight, nine hours a day, seven days a week, that adds up pretty quickly. We aren't even talking about travel time yet. If you add on travel time,

those are some really, really, really long weeks then. And so as everyone knows, MLB is protected by an antitrust exemption. You are not going after that. You've found a different approach to try to combat the status quo called the Fair Labor Standards Act. So tell us a little bit about the history of this or what provisions you think support your case. Yeah. So like you said, there's that

old tricky antitrust exemption that a guy named Justice Holmes decided to come up with about 100 years ago. One of the most admired judges that our Supreme Court has probably ever had was the genesis for the MLB's antitrust exemption. And in his mind, baseball at that time was not in commerce, and so it was exempt. It was not in interstate commerce. It was purely intrastate affairs, and so it was exempt from the antitrust laws for our country. Over time, it was challenged many, many times, and it was pretty much upheld most of the time,

and at the Supreme Court level, it was upheld all the time. And of course, the case that really fluidified the exemption was the famous Curt Flood case. So, you know, it would be it would have been very, very difficult to think about challenging the wages using any type of antitrust law. But of course, we have other laws out there other than our antitrust laws. and one of them is the Fair Labor Standards Act. And it's the basic minimum wage law that was passed all the way back in 1938 when Roosevelt was in office. And when he passed it, what he said is he passed it with the understanding that everyone should be paid a basic livable wage for an hour work, and it should protect those that do not have the individual bargaining power to really be able to bargain for a livable wage. And that's the exact situation that we see here.

These guys individually just do not have the type of bargaining power to raise the wages on their own. I mean, sure, if you're a high draft pick, then you get a decent signing bonus. But if you're a 30th rounder coming in as a senior in college, you're going to accept whatever they have to give. college, you're going to accept whatever they have to give. And since they're all able to get together and basically set what the salaries are going to be, it's very tough to do anything about it. And so that's what the FLSA and our minimum wage laws are there for, to protect those types of workers. And you mentioned that the 32 players involved in this suit are all former players, presumably because a player who is under contract and with a team would be somewhat worried about either direct retaliation

or simply not being in his club's good graces. So with that kind of challenge to this sort of thing, do you expect a union to develop over the next decade or so? Is it conceivable in this climate where players are so worried about impressing their bosses so that they can get the ultimate promotion? Is it realistic to think that in the next decade or so there will be a union that protects all players? I would love to see a union come about.

My last year of playing, I talked about it with a number of guys. They looked at me like I was a communist, like I was trying to peddle uranium on the black market to them or something. But no, in all honesty, there are a lot of smart players out there. And this is starting to reach a boiling point to where there are a lot of guys that see that this is a very real problem, too. And so when I would talk to guys, they would hear me out and would see the benefit of a union a lot of times. the benefit of a union a lot of times. But yeah, actually sticking their neck out and being the first one to take that step

is a much bigger issue. You know, I was towards the end of my playing career then and I was less concerned about reaching the major leagues at that point when I was writing what I was writing and talking about what I was talking about. But sure, I mean, if I'm in their shoes, I would be scared of retaliation too. I mean, you aren't just talking about a gig where you're selling cookies at the mall here. You're talking about kids' dreams. And I have a lot of

respect for that. I went through it myself and I know what is going on in their heads. for that. I went through it myself, and I know what is going on in their heads. They have a very, very small window of opportunity, and they are reluctant to rock the boat. With that being said, I am hoping that this lawsuit is a little bit of a catalyst, and that it emboldens guys to take that collective step forward. They realized that, yeah, if they do this alone, it may not work out. But if they work together and join together collectively, then they have power. And that's what I hope occurs. Is it going to

be easy for that to happen? No, it's not going to be easy for that to happen. It's never easy for any union to start. Even look at what the UAW is trying to do with the Tennessee Volkswagen workers. A big established union like that still has trouble unionizing a group of workers sometimes. But somehow unions do get started. Minor League Hockey has a union. How did that union come about? They had to have dealt with similar issues. And today,

of course, Minor League Hockey players make quite a bit more than what Minor League Baseball players do, even though Minor League Hockey is not as popular as Minor League Baseball. The Minor League Umpires have a union. Well, how did the minor league umpires union come about? That just came about in the past 10 to 15 years. It's a very young union. And again, minor league umpires make more than what the minor league players do. The guys that are calling balls and strikes make more than the guys that are playing first base and pitching. Major league soccer has a union. Arena football has a union. So there are tons of other examples out there.

And so this could get done, but it certainly would not be easy at all. Well, and of course, I mean, Major League Baseball has a union. It seems weird to draw a distinction between one class of professional ballplayers and say, well, that's normal, and then the other class of ballplayers and say, well, that's communistic. It feels like culturally there would be a real clear progression from one to the other. I guess that maybe the reason there isn't is because minor leaguers maybe don't quite have the same bargaining power, that maybe major league teams don't consider them as necessary. And if they, well, I don't know.

I mean, do you think that there's, if major leagueball sort of called their bluff or your bluff, what would happen? What would happen in Minor League Baseball, you know, if half the leagues were closed, closed down to avoid having to pay players more? You know, I've only heard, you mentioned the Major League Baseball Players Association. You know, the great Marvin Miller, I only heard one interview of him where he ever mentioned minor leaguers and whether they ever even considered bringing them under the tent. And the one interview that I did read, he said that he did consider it, but it would have just been too problematic or there would be too many guys and too many divergent interests

with trying to represent both the Major league guys and the minor league guys. And that's probably still true today. That doesn't mean that the support of the major league union wouldn't be terrific. And it doesn't mean that the major league union couldn't bring them under a larger tent that encompassed both the major league union and a separate minor league union that were sort of related to each other. Because if you could bring them to where they were related unions, of course, the minor league union would have a lot more power than if the Major League Baseball Players Association actually stuck their neck out and said, hey, we're going to protect these other players

because we realize that these are our future constituents. They are playing the same game that we're playing. Sure, they aren't playing in front of as many fans, and sure, they aren't playing on the big screen as often, but they still provide value to this game. If MLBPA realized that and took a stance on that, it would certainly help for sure. realized that and took a stance on that, it would certainly help for sure. And then the other thing that you could see happen is a collective group of minor leaguers could also be in with the minor league umpires.

You know, the minor league umpires tried striking back in 2006. And unfortunately, they weren't able to accomplish nearly as much as what they wanted because the team just brought in replacement minor league umpires. And let me tell you, it was not pretty. It was not good at all, but the games went on. But of course, if the minor league players banded with the minor league umpires, then that would be a completely different story. And collectively, they would have a lot more influence then. So I spoke to a couple of labor lawyers, and while they agreed that you seem to have a pretty strong case, they both identified this one exemption to the Fair Labor Standards

Act as the hurdle that you have to clear. So this would be Section 13A3, which exempts people from the minimum wage and overtime provisions for, and I'm quoting, any employee employed by an establishment which is an amusement or recreational establishment if it does not operate for more than seven months in any calendar year or during the preceding calendar year. Its average receipts for any six months of such year were not more than 33 and a third percent of its average receipts for the other six months of such year. So I would imagine that this will be central to the case. So what is your argument for why this should not apply to minor leaguers? Sure. So that's a mouthful, as I should just run there.

And it's also the language that certainly keeps me up at night for sure. You know, it is one of the defenses that the teams in Major League Baseball will certainly raise. It's in the federal law and it's in some of the state laws. It's not in all the state laws, though. So we are bringing this to not only the FLSA, which is the federal law, but also under some state laws too. And states are allowed to go above and beyond the federal laws requirements. And so that's why you see higher minimum wage in some states. Most recently, you saw all kinds of states raising the minimum wage and places like Seattle are up to like 50 bucks an hour now. So states, towns are free to do that.

And in addition to just raising the minimum wage, sometimes they just have less exemptions. And so some of the states don't have that exemption. But, of course, it is certainly one of the big defenses that they will raise. We think we are on sound footing with it. We think we are on sound footing with it. The cases I've looked at that first prong, looking at how long MLB teams operate, usually we're finding that they do operate more than seven months. And, of course, in this day and age, we believe, of course, they operate more than seven months.

I mean, this is a year-round industry. Not only are the players required to do stuff year-round, but just look at what happened in the winter meetings recently. They're conducting business throughout the year. They're taking in tickets and taking in revenue throughout the year, too. So we think we're on firm ground with that. But it is, yes, for sure, one of the defenses that they will attempt to raise. And so one of the reasons that we're having you on now is in response to some comments that were made last week at the winter meetings. Minor League Baseball has not surprisingly joined Major League Baseball on their side of the suit.

And last week there were some comments by Stan Brand, who is Minor League Baseball's vice president and a lobbyist. by Stan Brand, who is Minor League Baseball's vice president and a lobbyist. And he announced that he intended to ask Congress to add Minor League Baseball to the list of occupations that are exempt from those standards that we just talked about. And he essentially gave two arguments for why that should be the case or why Minor League owners and executives should oppose this suit. And one was essentially that this would destabilize minor league baseball, that it would change player development costs and potentially put teams out of business or change the structure entirely. The other was that players are in some sense trainees or if they are not being compensated financially, they are being compensated in another sense.

They're learning skills, the sort of arguments that you hear people marshal in support of unpaid interns or other trainees in other fields. So I would imagine that these comments were somewhat inflammatory or not well received by players and maybe by you, but I'd be interested in your response to his two arguments. So I guess to start with the first argument that costs would be pushed back to the minor league teams. And all of a sudden, you'd see minor league teams going out of business left and right and be the 1950s all over again and teams would be folding and and they they would have to rush in and stabilize the industry well you know i i think first i think it's ludicrous um first off you know as one of my teammates uh was just talking to me the other day about he sent me a tweet when this news first came out and he's like you know i played 10 years in the minor leagues i never received a a paycheck from the minor league team.

The major league team is the one that is paying the salaries of the minor league player. So, you know, it's starting on a false premise to begin with. And I believe that even if the salaries increase, that the major league teams would continue footing the bill for the entire minor league salary. And the reason is, is because it's not, it wouldn't be a ton of money in the grand scheme of things for them. You aren't talking about guys suddenly making six figures as, as minor league players. You're talking about them just complying with basic minimum wage and

overtime laws, just like McDonald's complies with, just like Walmart complies with. You're telling me a $9 billion a year industry can't afford to pay guys a basic minimum wage? It just doesn't make sense at all, especially when you have these humongous TV contracts that are kicking in right now. You know, the Royals just went out and signed a career 500 pitcher, and it's in bulk as to a two-year $20 million a year. So they can sign a guy that's a career 500 pitcher and pay him $10 million a year,

but then they can't pay their other employees basic minimum wage. It just doesn't make sense. Now, for the fact that they're going to push back some of it onto the minor league teams and they would certainly be folding then. They're going to push back some of it onto the minor league teams, and they would certainly be folding then. Well, sure, in 2020, the current player development agreements do run out, and they'll be renegotiating that player development contract.

And, of course, it's in the major league team's best interest to try to push back a little bit on minor league teams and try to offload some of that developmental cost. Minor league teams right now, a lot of them are doing quite well. They will tell you that their profit margins are low, and some of them do have slim profit margins. But for a lot of these owners, it's not about the profit margins. It's about the value of the franchise. Franchise values have skyrocketed, just like Major League Baseball franchise values have skyrocketed, like major league baseball franchise values have skyrocketed because people want to own baseball teams so even if their profit margins are slim

they're still going to make money whenever they resell these teams and so that's that's where it's sort of a sort of a false premise to begin with and then the other part of it is that major league baseball is not going to allow the minor league teams to fold it's a very symbiotic relationship there they're never going to push back so much that they endanger the lifeblood of the industry and so they will only offload as much cost as they can to still keep the minor leagues alive because they need the minor leagues. And, of course, the towns need the minor leagues too. They built these new stadiums, and minor league baseball was crying the same thing whenever they were required to upgrade their stadiums.

You know, 20 years ago they were saying if they had to build new stadiums, if they had to keep the playing field in better condition, if they had to keep the clubhouse in better condition, then that would put them out of business. Of condition, then that would put them out of business. Of course, it didn't put them out of business. They're doing better than they ever have. The minor league baseball is drawing more fans than they ever have, and they're selling more merchandise than they ever have.

So the game is doing quite well. It can certainly absorb a slight increase in wages for these minor league players. Now the second argument, I'm sorry, refresh my memory. That was a long answer, I guess. Right, that players should be treated as trainees in some sense, or that they are compensated in some way other than financially through getting knowledge or skills that have some value. So that's an absurd argument, too.

In almost any industry, there is a learning curve, and then there are positions that are entry-level positions. Of course, the entry-level positions don't make as much as the CEO. We are claiming that minor league baseball players should be paid like the major league players. There should be a difference in the salary between the minor leaguers and the major leaguers. But you look at the minimum wage laws. If you're an apprentice to be a plumber, for instance, you're still going to be making above minimum wage. You aren't going to be making as much as a regular plumber.

But, yeah, even an apprentice plumber is going to be making above minimum wage. So why can't we at least do the same with minor league baseball players? And the other thing I would say is as far as them getting an exemption, there's already a training ground where the players are exempt from minor league baseball, are exempt from the wage and hour laws, and it's called college baseball. for minor league baseball are exempt from the wage and hour laws. And it's called college baseball. That's the level where guys are expected to be out there just for the college experience and just to continue their developmental stage and to experience college baseball

and improve themselves and ready themselves for minor league baseball. to experience college baseball and improve themselves and ready themselves for minor league baseball. Yeah, I thought that the argument that Stan Brand made, Ben, you said it was unsurprising that they came down on the side of major league baseball. To me, I guess it's unsurprising in the sense that they're probably technically partners, but logically speaking, it seemed pretty surprising

because they don't have to pay any of these costs. It feels kind of petty to take the side of the own major league owners instead of the players who are your labor market and who you don't actually have to pay. And the idea that major league baseball is going to push that cost onto the minors implies that there's some sort of profit motive in the major league minor league system that I don't think is really there. I think the majors would pay whatever it is. And like you were saying, Garrett, the cost seems pretty low. I just multiplied some things. Tell me if you think this is accurate. But there's basically 200 minor leaguers per organization,

30 organizations. If you more or less doubled what most of the guys in the fairly lower levels are making it, say that's $10,000 more a year, that's like $60 million, which is hardly anything for this industry. It's $2 million per club. It doesn't really feel like it's necessarily even worth fighting over, considering how teams don't have anywhere to spend their money, and we see how they're trying to find places to spend it, it seems like, a lot of times. So is this fight really about something bigger than $10,000 for minor leaguers? Do you see this fight as something that's ultimately about something much bigger than just pay?

And do you think that Major League Baseball sees this fight as something that's ultimately about something much bigger than just pay? I do think it is about their power. They saw what happened with the Major League players once the genie was out of the bottle and once a Major League union came about and how quickly they lost control. And so I think they are very worried about losing control because, you know,

right now they have as much possible control as a business could ever have. And so of course they, they don't want anything to upset the status quo. They're very invested in the status quo and they enjoy the status quo. And so it is about something a little bigger. They probably are very worried that this would be the catalyst for something more like a minor league union coming about. Because like you said, you know, when you break it down on a per team basis, just even if you double the salary of every minor league you're out there on a per-major league team basis. It's not a big sum of money.

And do you draw any distinction between players who received signing bonuses and those who didn't, or those who got big ones and those who didn't? You were a fifth-round pick. You got a low six-figure signing bonus. Obviously, higher picks might get much larger ones. Lower picks might get much larger ones lower picks might get nothing should those bonuses be prorated over the time that you spend playing in the minors as a as a sort of salary or do you see them as totally distinct i was admittedly one of the very

lucky ones that i was a higher draft pick and so i I did get a signing bonus. It wasn't huge. And after taxes and paying my agent, there wasn't a ton left. But it did help me throughout my six-year minor league career then. Most guys aren't that fortunate. There are 40 rounds in the draft. There used to be 50 rounds in the draft. And so for most of those guys that are signing for $1,000 or $2,500 or even less, they don't have that luxury of having anything to fall back on.

So a couple of things there that shouldn't be counted as wages. You know, that's, that's handed to the player as an inducement to sign. You know, the player is, is foregoing his college career in order to play minor league baseball. So it's certainly counted as wages. But then the other thing that I would say is, you know, teams have taken steps to reduce signing bonuses in the past couple of years. And the last round of collective bargaining,

the union sort of sold out the minor league guys. And they allowed the changes to the draft that set up the current slotting system that they have. And you did see signing bonuses decrease then. And in fact, they decreased probably enough that if they just reinvested that amount that they already saved on signing bonuses into minor league salaries, it would go a long way towards solving this problem. But instead, of course, they took that money and put it other places. So, you know, I look around and I am certainly not going to say that signing bonuses are too high.

And there are a lot of talented guys out there and good for them for getting that signing bonus. for getting that signing bonus. But at the same time, it just doesn't quite make sense to give that much to some of those first-rounders and then all of a sudden pay these other guys five grand for an entire year when, let's face it, teams aren't real great at evaluating amateur talent still. They still get a lot of people wrong. And you know what? Sometimes they invest so

much money into a guy that that first rounder has to get chance after chance and is pushed to the major leagues then, whereas a guy that's drafted lower with no signing bonus might end up outplaying him in the minor leagues and never get a chance to reach the major leagues then. And as Sam mentioned, the cost might not be prohibitive going forward. And this is largely about protecting current and future minor leaguers. But it also does seek to recoup damages sustained by minor leaguers as a result of these practices. And perhaps that's one reason why these parties are opposing it so strenuously. Where would you draw the line there?

Because you could say that the damages go back many decades if you wanted to. So how do you define where the damages start or end? I would love to say that it could go back decades because then I wouldn't even be in the class. But unfortunately, the law is so lying for us. So the Fair Labor Standards Act allows you to go back three years from the time that you file the lawsuit. Some of the other state laws are a little longer. Most of them are between three and five years. New York has one of the longest at six years. So it draws a line for you.

And, of course, there is an ongoing violation, too. I don't expect Major League Baseball to change the way they're paying guys anytime soon. Hopefully it is soon. We would love for it to be soon. Well, that's my next and last question is what's next? When do you expect some resolution to this case and what major hurdles have to be cleared between now and then? Yeah, so we're entering the phase of a lawsuit that's called the discovery phase. And it's always the longest phase of a lawsuit, especially a larger lawsuit like this that has

a lot of different parties in it. What discovery is, is it's the formal phase where you trade all your documents and you take a lot of depositions, depositions being basically formal interviews under oath. And it's where you really learn everything you can about the other side. And in civil litigation, the discovery process is integral because basically you want to try to end stuff before trial. And then if you do go to trial, you don't want any surprises. You want to learn everything you possibly can to ring the discovery phase. You get all that information out there. And then hopefully you can present that to your judge before trial and hopefully never have to go to a trial then.

So that's the phase that we're entering. So we're going to be trading some documents and taking a lot of depositions over the next 12 months. And then a couple of big hurdles that we'll face is the class certification hurdle. Anytime you initially file a class action, you just file it as a proposed class action, and then you have to present to the court your reasons why you think it actually should be certified as a class action, why everyone is similarly situated enough that it should go forward as a class. And of course, you know, we think we have strong arguments for that, but that will certainly be a hurdle that will be presented to the court for him to decide.

All right. Well, we will be keeping close track of the case. And thank you very much for coming on and filling us in. All right. It's my pleasure. Thank you. All right. So people can follow Garrett on Twitter at Brush House, which is not spelled like it sounds, so I will spell it for you. It is B-R-O-S-H-U-I-S. That is it for this week. Please support our sponsor, The Play Index, at BaseballReference.com by going to the site and subscribing using the coupon code BP to get the discounted price of $30 on a one-year subscription. the discounted price of $30 on a one-year subscription.

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