Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 732: Andy McCullough on A-Rod, the Royals, and Rock

Episode Date: September 25, 2015

Ben and Sam talk to Kansas City Star Royals beat writer Andy McCullough about Alex Rodriguez, several Royals-related topics, and 1990s music.

🎵 And they'd rather see their faces filled with lies I want to keep playing roles that you didn't play Good morning and welcome to episode 732 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from Baseball Perspectives, presented by the Play Index at BaseballReference.com. I am Ben Lindberg of Grantland, joined by Sam Miller of Baseball Perspectives, presented by the Play Index at baseballreference.com. I am Ben Lindberg of Grantland, joined by Sam Miller of Baseball Perspectives. Hello, Sam. Hello. We have a guest today, one of our favorite guests.

The Kansas City Royals clinched the AL Central last night, so we are talking to a man who played no part in their success, but was there the whole time, Andy McCullough. Hello, Andy. You guys buy chaos theory, right? True. If there had been some other beat writer in the clubhouse, it could have destabilized the whole thing. That's 100% true.

I'm not saying it's because of me that it's happened, but to say that I've been a meaningless actor in this, I mean, I think, you know, I mean, have you guys read Jurassic Park? I would, I mean, that also applies to Ben and me, though. Sure. I mean, we're, look, it's all connected, man. The truth is out there. Whether he played a part in the royal success or not, Andy is one of our favorite beat writers, maybe the best beat writer with the possible exception of any other beat writers who might be listening to this episode. And we're happy to have him on. I have so many questions. I hope you don't have any work to do today.

Before I ask you Royals questions, I just wanted to relay a little observation from the ballpark yesterday that pertains to an ongoing wager that you two have. Oh, boy. I was watching Yankees take batting practice, and Alex Rodriguez was swinging away, and he just launched one. He hit one over the visitor's bullpen into the bleachers above it, and it was one of his last swings in that round and it looked like he didn't see where the ball landed because he walked away from the cage and he turned to a coach who was hanging there on the side and he asked him where it went and the coach gestured to a very deep part of the ballpark and Alex did a little fist pump. He was really excited about how far he had hit this ball and I just thought to myself,

this guy has hit 686 Major League home runs and he still is so excited about hitting them and he wants to hit them and I started to believe that Sam might win this thing. So how many away is he right now? I just gave an A-Rod fist pump, by the way. No, I did too. While I was listening to that story, I did the same sort of thing.

Because he's the best, man. I mean, who's a more interesting person in baseball than Alex Rodriguez? How many away from the record is he? And he's hit, like, 30 this year? He's hit 32. 76? 76. He's hit 32.

Man. I mean, I sort of buy the idea that the year off really did help him in terms of, like, being rested. So I'm curious to see how he bounces back next year. But, yeah, he's got a real chance, and I'm rooting for you, Sam. So he has 76 to go. And, like, kind of the big question here is how close does he have to get to where it becomes automatic like he'll stick around forever uh he'll do whatever it takes is there i mean who who was it who recently was trying real hard to stick around to do something and it wasn't this but i think johnny

johnny damon had some interest in getting some sort of milestone. I forget what it was. Yeah, Johnny Damon's 3,000 hits. And I don't know, Fred McGriff might have been this with 500 home runs. But normally, if this were not A-Rod, if this were Albert Pujols, there would be a point where once he got to that point, he would certainly get there. Like, baseball would give Albert Pujols chances forever if he were sitting on 758, I believe. Now, A-Rod's not going to get that.

Does A-Rod get any of that? Will a team? If A-Rod is at 758, is a team more or less likely to sign A-Rod that offseason? I don't know because we don't know what the culture will think about Alex Rodriguez in two or three years. I think there's already been, I mean, you know, obviously a lot of players don't like him, a lot of teams, you know, don't like him still, but I think he's completely removed, you know, and since he's like found this new persona that's like sort of a, you know,

just a lover of baseball and a grand old man enjoying the game. I think people enjoy him. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure he gets booed everywhere he goes on the road, and I'm sure a lot of teams say now that they wouldn't like to have him, but I'd be curious to see what the reception is for him in a couple years, whether things we know about performance and anti-drugs change, whether he says things that are interesting or provides maybe more insight on why he did the things he did earlier in his career.

So, no, I mean, yeah, you would say off the top of your head he probably won't get a lot of chances to have a goodbye tour with other clubs, but the perception of him could be very, very different in a couple years. Is there any chance that, I don't know if he has this sort of ceiling, but is there any chance that he, as he gets even older and even more chill, that he becomes a Giambi that teams love having around? Exactly. I mean, maybe.

You know, he is the guy who, in my limited experience, my one year covering the Yankees, the guys who had played with him before, you know, some of them really, really liked him. You know, Brett Gardner really liked Alex Rodriguez. And he's an absolute genius when it comes to, you know, discussing baseball. I mean, you remember that thing he told Ken Rosenthal when he was talking like a scout about Manny Machado? Like, he knows the game really, really well. And so, yeah, he's way more radioactive. And, you know, like, and so there's a lot more bad mojo around him than there would be around Giambi, I would say.

But you look at how Manny Ramirez has kind of rehabilitated his image all these sorts of things but the difference being obviously that the level of fan sympathy at least leading into this season between the Yankees and A-Rod would make it hard to believe that A-Rod would be kept around after this contract ends

but who knows there's no way to predict what things will look like in a couple of years I don't think anyone could have predicted this I will say he was so happy about hitting that meaningless homer in BP that he went over and signed some autographs and gave his helmet to a cute kid. So he's winning the hearts and minds of New York,

one small child at a time. I love that guy, man. He's a champ. I will also say this, that Pakoda's long-term forecasts do not like guys getting older than 40. And so this is very pessimistic. But by Pakoda's reckoning, if he plays 10 more years, he will still not get there. I mean, maybe. That might be true. I don't know.

You have to take the human element into consideration. I'm giving you scouting insight based on what I saw in BP. You have to factor that into the projections. Yeah, that's what the Royals say when Pagoda comes up. Will he get an MVP vote? No. No, because to vote for Alex Rodriguez, you kind of have to give that sort of caveman voting.

And those generally go to serve for the team. Those generally sort of fall into the Hallmark category. And I don't think anyone in New York would vote for him. I mean, he's been great, but it's hard to put him on my ballot. I don't have an MVP ballot this year, so I haven't really thought about it too much. I don't know. Maybe someone will just to, like, troll.

I don't know. I'll block the pass. I'll see the pass in putting him on his ballot. It's a great opportunity for a grandstand vote. Like, usually it goes the other way, where someone who hates steroids people will turn in a blank ballot or something. You can go the other way.

You can cast the A round. I remember it was either 2011 or 2012. Raul Abana has got a 10th place vote. And he was like the 17th or 18th best player on the Yankees that season. So anything is possible. I would say to any aspiring clickbaiters out there, the difference between your MVP vote, your MVP column with and without A-Rod is probably 3,000 page views versus 65,000 page views. Well, are you saying you want to vote him for MVP or put him on the ballot? I think just putting him on the ballot allows you to then write your whole column about him.

Yeah, I just, I think, and this is why I feel like, you know, we don't know what the atmosphere is going to be like in a couple years. I really feel like the furor around him has died down. I don't think many people really talk about him as a lightning rod figure this year because he hasn't done anything dopey. I mean, he got into that, you know, he went into that thing with the, you know, the goofball who caught his 3,000th hit. And, like, you know, in another sort of era, you know,

Rod would have had every right to trash that guy for acting like a clown about that. And he just was magnanimous and, you know, didn't start a fight. And, you know, he had every right to, you know, to trash the Yankees for fighting with him about his bonuses that were contractually agreed upon, even though, you know, there's not a big difference in the contractual language and, you know, that sort of interpretation of language or whatever, you know, but, and he didn't do any of that. So it's, I don't know. that sort of interpretational language or whatever, you know, and he didn't do any of that. So, it's,

I don't know. I don't think, I don't know if people are as interested in him as they were a few months ago. I think he's kind of made himself boring,

which in a way makes him even more interesting to us, you know, sort of Rado-philes. Well, good Royals talk, guys. We're off to a good start.

We're doing, that's how it always happens. This has probably been really gratifying for fans of your early work like people who followed you when you were with the star ledger and no one knew about you yet and you were like the little indie band that was from the local area and then you went mainstream and went to the casey star and your fans are like i like this early stuff yeah when i went to a paper with a smaller circulation. I love the star. I love

working at the star. I don't ever want to leave. I didn't mean it. If the circulation is low, you only have yourself to blame. You're not selling enough papers. I don't even know if the star ledger exists anymore. It's always a great position when you have to

Unprompted declare your loyalty To your boss I think that happens every time you come on We make you Declare that you're happy with your job It's a place where I feel Deed to my position Alright so

Royals let's talk about Greg Holland Who you've been tweeting up a storm about. And he is done for the year, which is not a huge surprise given how he's pitched lately and how hard he's thrown lately. But you filled in the backstory, which is pretty fascinating. So tell us what you have discovered about the saga of Greg Holland's UCL. Well, so Holland obviously this year has been not the same pitcher that he was last year. That's been something that, you know, we've been writing about since April,

that there's an obvious drop in velocity, that there was an obvious sort of lack of command and all sorts of things. And, you know, finally the sort of truth emerged is that he's been pitching with a torn ulnar collateral ligament since last August. And that raises a lot of interesting questions about what is the right thing to do in situations like this. You know, where should a player's loyalties lie? You know, what should his priorities be? And I think, you know, what's happened is it's a really, obviously I've been thinking a lot about this Matt Harvey story because I find it really, really interesting.

I look at Greg Holland as sort of an interesting, I don't know if it's a 180-degree counterpoint, but something of a counterpoint to what Harvey is doing, sort of raising this public stink about his innings limits, you know, in fear of injuring his arm, re-injuring his arm when there's no known injury, whereas, you know, Greg Holland chose to pitch with the torn ligament because he wanted to pitch. So basically what happened was last, either late August or early September, I believe it would be early September, the team examined him and the training staff effectively discovered, based on tests of functionality and range of motion and due to the inflammation, that there was most likely damage to his ligament.

Do you know what prompted that investigation? Did he initiate it? I think he just said his arm hurt. Yeah, I think he just said his arm hurt, essentially. his arm hurt. Yeah, I think he just said his arm hurt, essentially. But he never walked off a mound or anything like that hurt. He never left the game unless I'm totally misremembering, but I don't think that's true. So he basically just, you know, his arm hurt.

And they did be, they looked at it, and the training staff basically informed him that most likely there was ligament damage. And I do not believe there was an MRI because Holland basically said he did not want one. He said, you know, okay, so I've got ligament damage. What are my options? They presented him, you know, you can go the cautious route. You can get this, you know,

you get more diagnostic examinations, you know, there's a good chance, you know, that maybe surgery could be recommended, or you can do a more aggressive route, which is rest for a little bit and, you know, try and pitch as best you can. And Holland, you know, chose to pitch, which I guess, you know, some fans have, you know, found as, like, objectionable. And to me, that's, like, flies in the entire spirit of, you know, the whole enterprise, you know. And so Holland basically rested for 10 days, pitched all through September, pitched through

October brilliantly. I think he had a 0.82 ERA in 11 playoff games. He was not as lights out as he had been in the past. You know, there was definitely some issues with command and the velocity was down a tick, but, you know, Holland never let on how much discomfort he was in. And then basically, you know, in the winter, the team decided, you know, to, they felt like the hope was that the winter would give him enough rest to come back and maybe continue to be effective.

And they would just kind of play out the string and see how long effectively, you know, he could hold up. And, you know, they knew all year long that it was hurting him, that it was bothering him. But he continued to refuse, you know, they knew all year long that it was hurting him, that it was bothering him. But he continued to refuse, you know, getting an MRI. He continued to, you know, he was getting treatment, obviously, getting a ton of treatment. But, you know, he was not, he did not want to go basically in the tube and be told how bad the damage was. And then they kind of reached a breaking point. I mean, they'd been approaching this breaking point for a while because he had been, you know, really their least effective reliever for a long time.

But because they had a massive lead in the division, they were able to, you know, basically afford him the chance to try and work things out. But they reached this point in last year's outings where the fastball was like 87 to 89. The slider, you know, could not be thrown for a strike. And he just, you know, he reached the point where he was not effective enough.

And so they kind of removed him from the closing role earlier this week. And then he asked how he planned to use him. And he said he had no definitive role for him. And I believe when Holland heard that, he effectively said, okay, well, if there's no role for me, let's go, you know, let's go get this fixed. And so he's going to see Dr. Neil Alitrashe next week and almost certainly is going to get Tommy Johnson surgery. When you say he was getting treatment, do you just basically mean pain management? Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure, you know, based on HIPAA and stuff, sometimes they protect

this. So I don't know the exact details of what he was getting in terms of medication, stuff like that. But I mean, pain management, you know, you know, heat pads, cool pads, all the sorts of, you know, stim, all the stuff they can do to try and loosen up the arm. Because the ligament was still there. You know, the ligament is believed to be still intact, but it's torn. You know, it's not like a complete tear. So, yeah, he was able to pitch effectively. So do you think that the Royals are a better team?

They're better off because of this decision because a lot of the times when we talk about players pitching through injuries and often it's the case that the team doesn't know about the injury so this is a little bit different but often it seems like it's a counterproductive decision that by trying to grit through it they do further damage or they play at a worse level and they end up hurting the team anyway. So if you could say, you know, Holland gets Tommy John surgery at the first sign of a twinge, an alternate reality, is it better for the Royals or worse? I think it's worse. I mean, if you're talking about him getting Tommy John last August, I think, or last September, I think

it's worse. You know, I think it robs them of a pitcher who was very effective for them in September and October when they needed it. And to me, that puts the Royals in a very difficult spot because Holland was still effective. He was not necessarily as dominant, but he was still effective. And he did not

want surgery. So, as the team, I mean, you can't force the guy onto the table, and you're paying him a good amount of money. You mean, you can't force the guy in the, in the, you know, onto the table and, and you're paying him a good amount of money. You know, you need to try and recoup that investment that he had earned the right to, you know, to, to, you know, he said he could pitch, he had shown he could pitch. And now, you know, during this regular season, if the Royals say led by four games in mid-August and not 14, I think you probably would have heard about this sooner

because it was obvious his performance was deteriorating. But because they had a 14-game lead, there were lots of times where they were winning by seven or eight runs and they weren't in safe situations. He would come in and pitch like half and then Ned Yost could say, well,

Greg's a little rustier. I mean, because teams lie about injuries all the time, and the hard part from my position is I'm watching this guy and I'm talking to scouts, and you know he's... I mean, I've said this a hundred times to people during the season, and you can't really say it on the record because it's not... You can't really print it or anything like that, but I've said in conversation with people, we all know at the end of this year, Greg is going to be on an operating table in some form or fashion, whether it's shoulder clean-out, whether it's bone spurs,

whether it's a deprivement, or whether it's Tommy John. We all know his arm's not right. And you can't print that. You can't really say that to readers because it's not based on absolute fact. It's just kind of conjecture. But watching it, you can tell there's something wrong. So anyway, I think if the lead had been lesser, then they would have switched over to Wade Davis earlier in the summer,

and Holland probably would have gotten an operation already. But I don't know really how that makes the Royals necessarily better, because either way, they're facing a year next year without Greg Holland, and they kind of have a dilemma of how much to pay him, whether to tender him, whether to try and bring him back, you know, all those sorts of things. What he's done has now given every hot take writing columnist a go-to example of someone who a pitcher should try to be as tough as. Anytime a pitcher goes on the DL or refuses to pitch in the postseason because his arm is hanging off of his body,

it'll be, why couldn't he be more like Greg Holland? Yeah, no, I'm curious what you guys think of it. But what you guys think about that is the enough part of it. Yeah. I mean, I feel basically like I don't like how players are sort of pressured by each other or by the culture or whatever, or by hot take columnists to do this against their will. And I also admire a player who advocates for his own career in whatever way he sees that. And if you think that the most important part of your career

is having the opportunity to pitch in the 2014 World Series, I sort of respect that a player would do that because that's where he puts his priorities. To me, it is technically selfish, perhaps, because everything we do is technically selfish. If you choose to be altruistic, you're doing it probably because for some reason it validates your own existence or whatever. overtly selfish thing to do. And it does seem like a way of making today matter. And so I'm fine with that. I'm just not sure in this case, I see any possible end game that was going to work. I mean, I don't get, I guess what I don't get is I don't get the plan. What was the plan? How did they see this working? The plan was to pitch him until he blew out. I mean, he had a torn ligament. There was no way to fix it except for with a surgery. He was great. And I would say if he, if he had this last August and September and October, he was great that whole time. So I don't, I don't blame him for thinking

he could keep doing it for a while. I mean, but, and, and it's not like, but, but what I would say is like, it's, it, you know, there is obviously a pressure a pressure. I think it just depends on the injury. This isn't a guy coming back too quickly from an ACL. This isn't a guy with concussions. This is a guy who knew his arm was going to blow out. And so what do you do? When you're told that your arm is going to blow out and you're in the middle of a playoff race,

do you go and get on an operating table and tell your teammates, hey, good luck, guys, or do you pitch until the thing blows out? And he chose to pitch until the thing blew out. No, and that's up to the point where you start thinking about where they are now, which is that there's a pretty good chance that they've now lost him for two postseasons, this year and next year maybe maybe he's back next year maybe he's back next year but there's a good chance that he's not and so right if now if he'd had an the surgery last september it's the exact same situation two two post seasons

and as you guys point out he was really good i think that the way that he pitched through it last year i don't begrudge him that at all. At a certain point, though, then you start thinking, OK, well, if we're looking at this as a way of getting the most value out of my arm or the way that— I mean, if he is stating that his goal is to help his team as much as he can, I'm not sure that the smartest thing to do is wait for it to blow out and get to late September. In the offseason, should he have undergone surgery and cost himself the chance to make $8.5 million in arbitration? I don't think that – my impression is that he was – he really broke sometime in the middle of the year, of this year, right? I mean, he had a – No, he showed up broken. mean, he showed up broken. Like, he showed up with a torn UCL.

Like, the thing was, like, it doesn't, those don't get better. Like, it was torn. And he was managing it, but he showed up broken. He was sitting 91 all spring. I mean, we, you know, like, when I say, like, the stars and writing about this, like, it's been, you know, like, I mean, it's one of the reasons, like, Greg really doesn't like me is because, like, I've been writing about this, you know, for six months, but he's not right. Like, so he showed up sitting 92-93 in the regular season. He sat 96-97 last year.

He stopped throwing his splitter in part because it hurts to throw a splitter when you've got a, you know, an elbow thing. So he lost his, you know lost one of his great breaking balls. So, I mean, the option is really pitch or get surgery. And either way, neither one is palatable because you know at the end, like, you're going to break or you're going to need the surgery. So I don't know. Yeah, he was sitting like 95 in the postseason though last year and to me there's a big close

to 96 yeah no that's what i'm saying is that in the right okay that he basically showed up he wasn't in my opinion he wasn't broken he had he had an impediment to his future success in the postseason but he was still a good pitcher you could imagine well hey maybe he's going to be able to pitch through this is i mean every once in a while you. But he was still a good pitcher. You could imagine, well, hey, maybe he's going to be able to pitch through this. I mean, every once in a while you do hear a story about a guy who was told something at 28 and then he retires at 41. You're like, I guess that never turned out. I think Tim Hudson

had something like that. Tim Hudson probably not. I think Irvin Santana's had a torn ACL for a while. Yeah. Anyway, so I don't think that there's anything wrong with looking at a guy and going, well, hey, he's making it work. He's at 95.

I do think, though, that when you show up in spring and he's at 91, 92, at that point you realize, oh, okay, we fell off of a tier. Now we're down here and the incentives change a great deal. And, yeah, I probably would have had, I don't know, I would have probably pressed to have surgery at that point. Well, as the player or as the team? As the team. As the player. Yeah, but as the, well, what I think, and, you know,

based on just, you know, sort of retconning a lot of this into conversations I've had all year, I wonder if the team felt like he was going to hit a wall much earlier than he did. The fact that Greg Holland saved 32 games this year and had a 3-8 ERA with a torn UCL is really a testament to what a great competitor and pitcher Greg Holland is. And so if there was a chance that that guy could be effective for them, I think they wanted to ride it for as long as it went.

But I think when they saw what he looked like in April and May and June, you know, there was a game, I remember, in Milwaukee where he came in with a six-run lead and loaded the bases with none out and they had to pull him and Wade Davis had to come in and save his ass essentially. I think there was a

sense that at some point, okay he's going to hit a wall and he's just not going to be effective anymore. But then the team was so good that they could win a lot of games with out-save situations. they could win a lot of games without save situations. He could get a lot of saves where there was a three-run lead and he could give up one run and it wouldn't be ending. Yost could say, oh, well, he's still getting saves. And so there's a lot of things in here. But as the team, you can tell a guy they want to examine him,

but you can't force him in the MRI tube, I don't think, and you can't force him to have surgery. And I think the team also knew that this winter they were going to have a real reckoning with what to do with Greg Holland, because in arbitration, his salary was going to go up to at least 10 and a half million, probably 11, maybe 12. He is not their best best believer and they need to figure out what they're going to do with it so i think all along you know there was a thought that uh... we need to ride it as hard as we can because we know that next year he may not be here you know we might have to trade him or we might have to contender him

we might have to do something you know uh... aggressive with it and so you just want to milk as much value as you can with the asset yeah i mean i don't want to i'm much value as you can with the asset. incentives thing, you're like, okay, well, so what kind of crazy incentives are pushing him to do this that we find objectionable. But the other thing is just that it seems like in a lot of cases, there is a, there becomes a lack of perspective about how much you're actually adding to the team. And a lot of players seems like they play through injury or they play through fatigue and they don't see that in fact, you're no longer the best option for your team. And this just sort of feels like a case where if I were, you know, if I were the omniscient narrator, And this just sort of feels like a case where if I were, you know, if I were the omniscient narrator, I would probably have pointed out that Greg Holland's plan, while understandable, didn't seem to have any real great outcome attached to it and that he was no longer helping the team.

And so if I could have, if I were the Royals, I would have probably shut him down in spring training when it became clear that he wasn't coming back. But let me ask you this. If, let's say the Royals had gone to him, because right now, don't they, they basically have to non-tender him, right? Like, you can't pay him to... I think so, yeah. Otherwise, he's going to make, you're basically paying him $25, $26 million for the next, for 2017, if you pay him to rehab, right? Well, he's the free agent after this year.

So even more so, you have to not, no, even more so, you have to not tender him. Yeah, I think if, I think if he had two years of control, maybe he'd do tend room. But as a defending free agent, you're paying him to rehab, essentially. And that doesn't make sense, because then he could go on the open market and if another team wants to give him a three year deal,

he just switched over to Scott Boras, then all of a sudden you're put in a really crappy spot. So yeah, it's almost like a bus nonsense, or a bus renegotiate the way that you want it here. So he potentially cost himself a ton of money by deciding to do this, right? I mean, if he... Well, I mean, it depends on the timing.

I mean, if he shows up in spring training and, you know, and gets surgery, I think he basically effectively ends his Royals career. Well, I don't know if he effectively ends it. Why? He gets the eight and a half. Yeah. He gets the eight and a half.

I mean, he may, you know, so okay. So the options are he gets surgery last September, then he's not going to get the eight and a half million he made this year. I guess the most craven one would be for him to show up in spring training and then get the surgery. That would probably be the one that makes him the most money. It's also the least competitive and the most that goes against his nature. You know, I mean, you know, Greg Holland, and this is, you know, you're getting into

this sort of psycho battle shit, but, you know, he's a, you know, he didn't grow up, you know, affluent. He, you know, walked on at Western Carolina. You know, he's a 10th round pick. You know, he built himself into, you himself into one of the great relievers in baseball the last four years. You don't get to that point by shying away from a challenge. And I think he views this as a challenge, a way to manage it,

knowing that at some point at the end of this, he was going to have to get arm-shortened, you know? And so if you're, I mean, if the goal is to make as much money as possible, which, you know, for some players and maybe for all players, that's what the goal should be, you know? But if the goal is to, you know, to win championships and to, you know, maintain the status you have among your peers,

pitching is probably, you is probably the better option. That's kind of part of the rub of sports. And I think a lot of times, because the arguments for playing through injury can be so detrimental to players, a lot of times people sort of negatively react to them and say it's like sort of craving to cheer for a player who's playing Japan when he's hurting the team. But it's also like, you know, that's kind of what the whole thing is about. Like, you know, it sucks that there's like awful side effects to this in football and, you know, in other sports.

But, you know, with like the painkillers and stuff, but that's kind of the cross we bear, you know, caring about sports is that we know that in order to get the stuff we enjoy, these people have to put themselves, you know themselves through things that are not physically sustainable. And, you know, Greg Holland chose to pitch with an aching arm. And that's, you know, maybe it makes me a columnist from 1963, but I think there's something admirable in that. Yeah. I mean, basically, especially in baseball, baseball is such a sport of attrition that when you sign, you are essentially giving your body to a team so that they can burn through it.

And a part of the game is obviously getting hits and runs and stealing bases and doing all those sorts of things. But part of it is just being a healthy body, and you agree to let them use your body until it breaks. You're not even burning the ships. You're burning the body. Yeah. I would not say that. I'm writing a story for this weekend that involves a motivational

speech from Raul Abanez. I thought you guys should know. He should, you know, they should probably sign him right now. They should agree to sign him for like $3 million for next year. So that if he does come back in time for the postseason, he gets to be a royal. I thought you were talking about Raul Abanez. No, not Raul.

So he gets to be a royal. It doesn't look quite – I mean, if in a way they're going to get kind of killed for the eventual non-tender – not killed. Everybody will understand it. But it looks like, wow, this guy totally you know gave everything for you and and you non-tender pay him three million he gets to rehab in your facilities he doesn't have that awkward he doesn't have that awkward postseason where he's sitting on the bench and everybody knows he's about to get cut and and all that right and then and then if if everything works

out and he comes back in 11 months then you've got a dominant reliever in the postseason maybe yeah i mean you could also see a thing where they pay him like a $12 million two-year contract, you know, like that, you know, two, three million for next year and then, you know, bank on maybe him coming back as a, you know, as a certifiable, you know, beast in 17, I think. You know, they did something like that with Chris Medlin that's paid some dividends this year. You know, I think there's definitely, you know, they kind of did it with Luke Hochaver

and, you know, Boris represents both guys. And I think Greg Holland wants to stay with the Royals. So, yeah, I mean, there's certainly a chance, you know, that they could do something like that. And maybe that was, you know, maybe, I mean, I don't think necessarily that there was a better, I don't know, I don't know, I don't think necessarily that there was a better, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's complicated.

You know, it's hard to say what the right thing to do is. I don't think there is necessarily a right thing to do in this scenario. I guess Yost gets a retrospective pass for always using Holland for one inning at a time. Is it possible that every closer is pitching through a torn UCL, just on every team, and that every time a manager doesn't use the closer in a tie game on the road, it's really because his elbow's about to break? Yeah. I was going to say, we know that one of the main symptoms of UCL tears is you cannot pitch in a tie game on the road. It's true. If I were a manager getting killed for his bullpen usage, I'd just sort of be like, Holland, just I wouldn't say anything. Could you imagine if Ned just one day like, well, I mean, we all know Greg has a torn UCL.

Anyway, you know, I thought Eddie was great from the sixth on, you know, which is sort of it. That would have been funny, you know, because Ned, like I said, he can't see his tips there. So what went into the decision to shut down Greg and he goes, well, he's had a torn UCL since last August.

I'm like, oh, thanks. Thanks for the update. You know, thanks for cluing me in. As he says, I ask repeatedly,

is he healthy? Is he healthy? Is he healthy? Yeah, yeah, he's fine. He's fine. So,

so I'm just, Andy, you don't know this, but how many pitchers in baseball right now do you think are pitching with a torn UCL knowingly? Like somewhat, well, knowingly.

Knowingly is an interesting question. I don't know. I mean, 15%? Wait, you think 10% of pitchers have had the Greg Holland decision before them and chose what Greg Holland chose? Well, I mean, partially torn, like knowing that there could be ligament damage. I think all pitchers know that there's a time limit on their arm.

You know, I think, like, do I, okay, do I think 15% of pitchers have had that conversation where a trainer said to them, you have a, probably have a torn ligament? Probably not. But I think, I think 100% acknowledge that there's a good chance they could blow out at some point. And I think a good amount of pitchers know that when they are

managing some sort of discomfort in their elbow, that there's a serious chance that they have a damaged ligament. So yeah, I mean, I think it's somewhere from 10 to 15 to 25% know that there's something wrong with their arm and they choose to pitch through it. All right. One topic down it's you know somewhere from 10 to 15 to 25 percent you know know that there's something wrong with their arm and they choose to pitch through it all right one topic down in a cool 20 minutes moving right along wait can't we can't we just keep having andy on different topics every day different question about the royals that'd be nice there's not much going on with the royals i don't know well i want to ask you about the the cueto salperez thing because it's sure intersection of two things i love johnny cueto and catchers and framing framing

yeah so so the story as you reported it cueto was going through a rough patch everyone was wondering what's wrong with cueto and then he sort of uh sheepishly suggested at some point that he wasn't entirely comfortable with the way Sal Perez catches. And of course, Sal Perez is a multiple gold glove winner. He's got a great defensive reputation. And so even a pitcher with Cueto's cachet wasn't willing to just bring this up in month one with the team. So he prefers his catchers to set a lower target or to set a target where he is actually intending to throw the pitch. And so Perez has now adjusted and catches differently and Cueto had a good start. So I guess my first question is, does this make sense timeline wise in that Cueto came over and had some success with Perez catching

the way he was catching so is it a post hoc explanation that he has concocted because he wasn't pitching well and he was searching for an explanation and two Perez by the best stats we have has never rated as a good pitch framer. He seems to be a very good game caller. Is this something that you have any sense that other pitchers thought also, but were hesitant to say? Well, I think most, well, okay. As far as the first question, there was, if you watch these guys work together, even during Cueto's first four or five starts when he was getting good results, there were a lot of mound conferences. There was a lot of, you know, shaking off. There was a lack of sort of rhythm to the outings that, you know, when you watch it, you're like, well, I mean,

it's the first time they're working together. Cueto's kind of a weirdo in terms of like his pitching style. You know, he's got all these shifting tempos. He's got six different pitches and three different deliveries. So it's understandable that they're working out the kinks. And then Cueto went through a real crisis of confidence, I think, because he was having bad results. He put a lot of pressure on himself. He was telling friends that he knew that the Royals basically only brought him over here because they wanted to win a World Series.

And he felt like, you know, the only guy who wasn't contributing to that, which, you know, contributed, you know, sort of didn't help his mental state. And so that, you know, tended to breed him trying to overthrow the baseball. And so, you know, he's trying to, you know, over-manipulate spin, you know, add velocity in that harm's location. And then you combine that with, you know, sort of the issues he had feeling comfortable with Perez and it's a pretty crappy pitcher.

You know, he had a 9-5-7 ERA for five starts and he just kept like spinning these like cutters like at the, you know, at the lace and, you know, they were just getting crushed and eventually, you know, it took him kind of saying like, okay, like, here's what I need they

basically had a meeting where they were like what do we need to do to get you going because he was pretty quiet about like you know what he wanted he just was telling him he was healthy and that you know he would get it together which wasn't really communicating what he needed and so he gave it you know a small set of instructions you know Perez needs to set a lower target he needs to set up later he needs to back off the plate a little bit, and that puts some strain on Sal because he's a huge guy, you know, 6'3", 6'4", 240, you know, but now he's kind of could get down

on one knee in the crouch to try and set as low a target as possible, and the result's been okay so far. You know, he went 7 and gave up 2 in his first start with that, he went 7 last night and gave up 3, and, you know, he looks better, and it's not even so much that Perez is going to steal on strikes or frame better. It's that Cueto is going to feel comfortable on the mound, and he looks more comfortable.

He's more willing to challenge hitters with his fastball, which is what he needs to get ground balls. And so I think the changes look like they've been pretty effective. And what was the second question? I'm sorry. Second question is, do you think any other pitcher experienced this sort of discomfort or any sort of dissatisfaction with the way that he caught over the years and was just afraid to speak up about it? Is it just unique to Cueto? Good question.

I think it might be unique to Cueto in that he seems like he has something of a, and this is hard to say, but, you know, based on just from what people kind of say about him, he is somewhat, you know, deferential in a situation like this. You know, he's not, you know, a lifelong royal. You know, he's coming into a new situation. And so I think that sort of hampered the lines of communication in ways that maybe in another scenario, you know, like I know like Chris, Chris Young, for example, like does not have sort of any issue communicating what he needs and when he

needs it. You know, he's very upfront and sort of blown about that. Just sort of, you know, this is what I like, you know, this is how we're going to pitch to this guy, et cetera, et cetera. And some guys are just different, you know, like Andy Pettit liked to be led, you know, where he was going and versus, you know, some other guys like to, you know, take more charge on the mound in terms of, you know, the decision making. So it just kind of depends. I think Perez is a good defensive catcher. I think his reputation is a little overblown because, you know, his pitch framing is not the best. His game calling

is okay. He has a tremendous arm, obviously, but, you know, he's still growing in some of those roles. So, you know, I think it made it tougher in that Perez is not Yadier Molina, but his reputation and standing within the Royals, you know, make him maybe have a similar place in terms for a new guy coming to try and, you know, give his preferences to him. And have the changes that Cueto asked him to make carried over into non-Cueto starts? Because it seems like it would be a tough thing to, I mean, if the situation were reversed and a catcher said, I don't like your mechanics, can you change your mechanics when you pitch to me?

That wouldn't work so well. This is maybe not quite as drastic as that, but it's still. He should have a conversation with Danny Duffy. Say, Danny, I like it when you throw strikes. Can you throw strikes? I only talk to him when he's wearing a bear suit. Oh, he's the best. That guy. He is the best.

I think Perez has been doing a little bit with Volquez. He did it the next night. He tried it a little bit. They liked it. Volquez is way more of just tell me where to throw the ball and let's do it. And I think because they had some success with it the previous night,

you know, Sal tried it out a few times and Cueto was like, oh, that's great. You know, whatever. Just, you know, tell me where to, you know, he's way, I mean, so it's all stylistically different, you know, like Cueto and Volk have, you know, guys who have, you know, I guess kind of similar stuff. Well, not really, but, you know, but they're just completely different in terms of like their temperament on the mound or what they're looking for and i mean the entire staff has sort of broken down it it doesn't help that greg holland tore his ucl and it doesn't help that

cueto wasn't communicating so well with paris but it's not just those guys it's just dave cameron wrote something earlier this week about how the royals have had like the worst second half or worst month or so pitching performance of any team that's qualified for the postseason in a long time. And who knows whether that affects anything about their postseason chances. We've seen lots of teams struggle down the stretch and then be great once the postseason starts. But is this a concern about it carrying over, or is there a sense that they're kind of playing out the string because they had such a big lead? I think it's more the latter than the former, at least what the team will say. I think, you know, if you watch them, yeah, there's concern. I think it's hard to come up with a pitching staff that would like to see, say face the Blue Jays for seven games.

But I feel like if the Royals are right, they might have the odds to do it and that they have a ton of power righties. They're going to start four right-handers in October, Guaido, Volquez, Ventura, and Chris Medlin. Obviously, the back end has Davis, Herrera, Hochaver has been okay, Madsen has been great, and then you've got Franklin Morales, Danny Duffy, maybe Chris Young. So, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, yeah, they've been, you know, they've pitched like garbage for like four weeks or six weeks or however long, and they haven't pitched great. But there is a ton of talent on that roster. There's a ton of power arms, you know, guys who are going to get strikeouts, especially in the back end. And so it's a good staff. I mean, who the hell knows how well they're going to pitch, though.

Like, I mean, I don't know if there's a predictor of anything in postseason success. Like, I mean, I'd love to know what it is, because I was, like, totally right about it. But I don't know if there's a predictor of anything in postseason success. I'd love to know what it is because I was totally right about it. I don't know. It could be a problem, but it could not be. They're not rolling out four shitballers at their starters and just hoping that they'll all go four innings. They've got guys with power stuff who can go deep.

Will they? I don't know, but they have that potential. One more thing about Perez. I know he's the most good-natured guy in the world, and a catcher's job to a large extent is to make the pitcher feel comfortable, whatever that entails. But was there any sort of hurt feelings, do you think, over this I don't like the way you catch so much? I don't think so. It wasn't necessarily framed as i don't like the way you catch so much i don't think i

don't think it wasn't necessarily framed as i don't like the way you catch it was more here's what i need yeah you know here's what i like it wasn't like you know so you're a jerk um you know like for it was more like i don't feel comfortable like here's what here's what i like i mean yeah did did cueto have some you, initially like head shaking the first couple of times they worked together where he was like, what the hell is going on? Yeah, he did. But I don't think, you know, I don't know. I don't think Perez's feelings necessarily were hurt. And if they were, you know, that maybe they all, you know, got dropped last night and talked it out. There was another Clubhouse related thing. Did you see the thing in the CNBC analysis of the equality of payroll distribution?

It came out recently, and there was some analysis that the Royals' payroll is the most evenly distributed among their players. And there was some speculation that maybe this would enhance Clubhouse chemistry because you don't have haves and have nots. And I think the Yankees were kind of at the opposite end of the spectrum. And as the only beat writer I know of who has covered both of those teams in the last three years, do you think there's any validity to the idea that not having guys making the minimum and other guys making 25 million could enhance clubhouse chemistry? Is the pay ever like a looming thing that is kind of coloring players' interactions? That's interesting. I don't know. I mean, they're all rich. So

it's not like one guy is making 25 million and one guy is making 50 grand and a lot of i don't know i mean a lot of times you you hang out with your peers in the clubhouse you know so i don't know if necessarily the guy who is making 25 million dollars is spending a lot of time with the rookie, you know, who, well, I mean, I guess more the, I don't know, like what would the disparity with the Yankees would be what? That like Jason Shreve is mad that ZZC Sabathia makes a lot of money? Like, cause I think baseball players generally view their profession as a meritocracy and that's why

they call free agency a privilege. And so if you can play well enough to get through arbitration and make free agency, you know, you deserve, you know, that's kind of one of the things the union hammers, you know, all the time. It's like, if you earn the right to become a free agent, you know, like, you deserve whatever money people are willing to pay you. I don't know. I mean, I haven't really thought about it that so i'm trying to like think it out loud but like

i just don't know like when payroll would become such a huge issue like i guess you could say like man you know that guy sucks and he's also making 15 million dollars but what's the difference in saying man that guy sucks and he bats third for us? You know, like it's, you're going to hate that guy either way because he sucks. Right. And I guess it would be tough to untangle from other factors that could cause dissension because if there's an unequal pay structure, it's probably because there's unequal ages on the team and unequal experience levels. and so maybe all of those things could be factors that would make it harder to gel i don't know i mean in my experience the thing that causes the most clubhouse attention is guys who just don't shut up yeah like that's the thing that bothers

people it's just guys who just talk too much beat writers who keep asking if your elbow is okay well yeah that too yeah uh but but but true like like, I mean, it's like any office, you know? Like, you don't necessarily think about how much money the guy makes. You're like, God, I just wish, you know, Rick would shut up. Like, I'm just trying to work. Like, I'm just trying to do it, and Rick won't shut up about it at bat. You know, like, I think that's kind of what annoys people in general. Like, I think.

I don't know. Ballplayers are people too, Ben. It's true. And my last question about the Royals. You really did have a lot of questions. I did. They're so interesting right now. Yeah, in my opinion, podcasters' main problem is with other podcasters.

You just won't shut up. I haven't been asleep for the last 15 minutes. We're the yin and yang. You just won't shut up. I haven't been asleep for the last 15 minutes. We're the yin and yang. You want to end every episode after 10 minutes, and I want it to continue forever. So we're in a constant battle. Ben, can I just interrupt at least so that another voice is heard? I just want to say, going back to... You have an open mic.

You're allowed to chime in at any time. Once it gets to a certain point i'm done for the week um and uh so monday tuesday i do want to say though that about greg holland again uh oh god i do respect theals' deference to the players' wishes. However, it does seem completely insane that he was allowed to not have an MRI. Like, that feels nuts, right? Well, this is what I posed that question to Nick Kenny, the trainer. I said, like, how did he not have an MRI?

And his point effectively was, we knew what the MRI was going to show. It was going to show that he had a torn ligament. So it's not like this was, like, everyone knew the score. Everyone knew his ligament was torn. So it seems like, you know, malfeasance or whatever to let him keep. But it's not like, remember david right had a back injury when i was covering the mets and he it was like it was like a back sprain or something like that and he kept refusing an mri for like weeks and weeks and weeks and finally they put him in

the tube and it showed he had a broken back and like that is a little different but this in this case they knew he had a torn ucl like i I mean, they knew to a pretty strong degree of certainty that his UCL was torn. So until the performance became enough that he was not capable of going out there and being relatively productive, there was no reason to get an MRI if he didn't want one, because what's the MRI going to show? You know, like, oh, your UCL is really torn. You know, like, you know, it was really about his pitching. Like he was going to pitch until he couldn't pitch anymore. Fair enough.

I'm such a Royals homer on this podcast. It's very nice. I hope the Royals listen to this. Maybe they'll like me, I guess. Yeah, you called Holland a hero, basically, earlier in this podcast. I did. And he might dislike me more than anyone else on the Royals, so that's great. It shows how professional I am.

So Jeff Sullivan wrote something about the Royals' contact rate, their lack of strikeouts. This is not a new thing, obviously, but he showed that this season, relative to the league, they have had the lowest strikeout rate of any team going back to at least 1950 and i've been trying to figure this out going back to last year because the royals always make a lot of contact and when they were terrible no one thought that was an advantage everyone thought it was the backwards royals not walking and then as soon as the royals started winning and maybe maybe the contact stuff got even more extreme at that point but royals started winning and maybe maybe the contact stuff got even more extreme at that point but once they started winning we kind of tried to talk ourselves into

it being a an advantage and i kind of get how it would be like if if you're talking about talent acquisition and other teams are maybe not paying as much as they should for contact hitters. Like maybe it's just out of vogue and you can zig when everyone else is zagging and you can get contact hitters for less than their worth or something. But in the actual in-game situation, I'm still struggling with whether it helps to be a low strikeout team in the modern baseball era more than it would have at some point in the past. So have you come to any kind of conclusion about whether the Royals putting the ball in play when no one else is putting the ball in play is an advantage above and beyond just, you know, how good the hitters are in any era? No, I don't think, I think it's about just how good the

hitters are. I mean, I think that, I think it's something of a strategy, something of a coincidence, you know, that they've kind of continued to, like, they do like guys who put the ball in play. They like guys who they scout as guys who can hit 300. And that's up and down the lineup, you know, Eric Hosmer, Lorenzo Cain. Well, those are really the two good all-time players.

No, Mike Musak has been a lot better this year in terms of making contacts, stuff like that. So, yeah, I mean, I honestly, I don't know. I haven't thought about it too deeply because it's hard to try and keep what the exact trend is because you're right. Like when they never walked and they lost 90 games every year, it was the thing that people made fun of them for, and, oh, the Royals are so backwards, and blah, blah, blah.

And then, you know, a couple years later when they were winning, it's, like, become this great, you know, sort of, it's the new money ball. So I don't know. I mean, I do remember in, I think it was 2012, weren't the Giants, like, really sort of good at that? Like, that was a real skill for them. The Giants, like, really sort of good at that. Like, that was a real skill for them.

And especially since, you know, like, defenses were worse a couple years ago. Putting the ball in play is, I don't know, it's hard to get base hits now. So, you know, maybe it's better to put the ball in play as much as possible because you're going to lose more base hits with the shifts and all that stuff. I don't know. I do know it's something of a strategy, but I don't think it's fair to say that that's really the source of what they're doing. I think the source is that they have these really freakishly talented players who couldn't unlock their potential for a long, long time,

but you're seeing it with Lorenzo Cain is going to have a 7-8 win season. Eric Hosmer has been great. Mike Moustakas has been great. Alex Gordon is still fantastic. I don't know necessarily that's because they put the ball in play. I think they're just good players. I've exhausted my bottomless list of Royals topics.

Sam, you've been kind of quiet about Greg Holland. Do you have anything to... Sam, you've been kind of quiet about Greg Holland. Do you have anything to... Sam, what contemporary novel reminds you of Greg Holland's play? Would you guys feel different about the way that the Royals handled Greg Holland if he were, say, one year of service time and if he were, say, 14 years of service time, as opposed to what he actually was, which is, at the time, four years of service time?

Does it make a difference how much he is their asset versus a free agent, sort of, so to speak? I think it might reflect worse on the team if he was younger, if he had never made any money. And then because the player probably has less agency in that decision, and it's probably more willing to listen to what the team's recommendations are just based on a lack of experience. Maybe we would do it differently if Greg Holland was, say, Kelvin Herrera or someone younger. If he was Giordano Ventura last year,

like last August, they discovered a tear in his arm and he never made any money. Maybe that would look a little bit worse. But I don't know. If you're an old guy in baseball, you shouldn't listen to what anyone tells you to do. If you pitch 14 years, just do whatever the hell keeps you waking up in the morning, I think. Yeah, okay. What do you think of Weezer? Well, what was the argument? So you just don't like Weezer? Yeah, I don't even draw a line

after like two albums or anything i just i'm not a monster like i i like say it ain't so and you know good songs right okay you like the you like the like audio umami songs they're like you know like like uh chemically you know conditioned for people to like that Yeah, I mean, I would say I'm like most rational humans. I think Weezer's completely sucked since like probably Maladroit and maybe since the Green Album. I mean, what, does Sam have a

separate opinion? I haven't listened to that podcast. I'm sorry. No, I simply, I made a Weezer analogy that wasn't a controversial one. It merely had a premise that the person listening also liked Weezer, and Ben interrupted by saying,

well, actually, I hate Weezer, all Weezer. I mean, that's extreme. I think the most controversial opinion that I have about Weezer is that I truly, genuinely love the Green album. That's a good record. I agree. A lot of people think that the line is drawn before that and that it's as much of an abomination and a stain on their legacy

as Maledroid onward. I don't feel that way. I think it's a great album, and I know every word to it, and I love it. I would say the only people who actually probably have a right to hate weezer are people who used to love weezer yeah like there's no if you just don't like the blue album okay it's just a band you don't like but the only people that should actually dislike them really really strongly are people who felt pinkerton was really important to them and felt the blue album was really important to them and have just been disappointed by their subsequent output and ben ben isn't saying i mean ben didn't say anything

mean about them he i don't think he's insulting their song craft or anything like that he just said he doesn't like the tone of their guitars and i sort of have a i have a similar i can't really listen to uh xtc or the shins for kind of similar reasons. I recognize extremely talented people doing extremely smart things with music, but there's just a pitch to it that makes it not good for me. You're right about ecstasy. Ecstasy is like, that's like eating like a really, really fluffy cupcake too quickly. Like your shoulder starts to hurt. Like the first bite, you know, you hear like, this is working overtime. You're like your shoulder starts to hurt like the first bite

you know you hear like this is working overtime you're like oh yeah like this is good and then like three songs into the record you're like passing out from like the overload you're like christ like slow it down andy i agree with that opinion yeah the shims i'm okay the shims you know they're they're also in the weezer category for me like after that second record it's like who gives a shit i think beulah is better than weezer well beulah is i mean beulah that's that's not even fair beulah is an all-time great band that's okay oh my god i think the only thing i've ever said that actually made sam mad was when i said no one likes uh in the aeroplane over the sea well not only is it no one actually likes that record that is absolutely not true a lot of people love that record even that's a great record too by the way like that

is that might be the i don't know that might be the the best record that came out of that decade in my opinion what kind of 90s of the 90s yeah i mean what else maybe like the 1990s What, the 90s? Of the 90s, yeah. I mean, what else? Maybe like the 1990s. I'm trying to think what... Pretty good decade for music. Decades mean 10 years, right?

I don't know. I need to go back to Latin class. I mean, it's fine. Yeah, as far as... What's a better record from the 90s? I don't even want to compare it to, like, The Chronic. I mean, let's just say... Dogman's Star by Suede is a better record from the 90s

well i just i mean i would disagree with that is a good copper blue is a better record is that the sugar album yeah really yeah the show yeah copper blue is definitely better then in the aeroplane over the sea it is not yes oh yeah it is no okay well no okay so okay there's not anything on that record okay computer sure is it debatable you could argue a couple of built to spill records twice removed and yeah i mean okay so i'm fine uh if you're feeling sinister might be a better record from that decade i'm not okay i'm not i'm gonna pull back and it probably is not, but it is, I mean, it is a genuinely great album. I mean, this is not just like some like light piece of indie rock that I like. Most indie rock. No, I think it's, I think it's, what I think is,

I think it's a good record that people want to love more than they actually do. I think they do. Yeah, I do too. I think they do. Yeah, I do too. I don't know. I went to a Jeff Bacon concert and lots of people cried. Oh, God. There was that great moment.

Remember that moment on Parks and Rec when they were playing Know Your Boo? And Aubrey Plaza kept doing all these Neutral Milk Hotel answers and Chris Pat couldn't get any of them right. That was my favorite neutral milk hotel moment. Okay. All right. We've kept you long enough. This has been the highlight of our recent podcast schedule. As usual, we will muddle through somehow until enough time has passed that we don't feel guilty about asking you to come back. I mean, I'll be available.

I've got to go work on a story now for Sunday. I've got to go find some lunch too. It's going to be a busy day for me. Can't help you with that. All right. Well, people should follow Andy at McCulloughStar on Twitter. You can read all of his work at KansasCity.com slash sports slash royals. Make

sure you add the last slash or you might read the Chiefs stuff and wonder why Andy is so bad at writing about baseball. All right, that's it for this week. You can join our Facebook group and the many threads about people's favorite Weezer you next time. and using the coupon code BP to get the discounted price of $30 on a one-year subscription. Have a nice weekend. We'll be back on Monday. All right. Thanks, that was fun. You can, anytime. Monday, Tuesday. Anytime.

I watched half an episode of Justified, which was really satisfying. So it's great when you're on. Is it really? That's fantastic. How many people were murdered the thing about justified that i it took me a long time to realize it's not so much the number of people who are murdered or killed in any way it's that they never make a case against any of the criminals they're they're lawmen and you they're doing law work they're doing it seems like they're doing detective work and they're getting witnesses and they're getting people to flip and they're

there to see crimes and there's even a wire or two but there's never a person arrested they just pursue them until they kill them it's like they're just waiting for the moment they can shoot the criminal and then that's when the season ends. It's the only way to get real justice. I guess. It's actually just satisfying. They're trying to spare the taxpayers the expense of lifelong incarceration. Endless appeals. Yeah. All right. See you, Andy.

Bye. Later, guys. It's not the end.