Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 760: Andy McCullough Reveals Every Royals Offseason Move

Episode Date: November 5, 2015

Ben and Sam talk to Kansas City Star Royals beat writer Andy McCullough about why the Royals won the World Series and what their offseason might look like.

Leave me alone. I'm over it. And everybody's moving on. I can't see my tomorrow. And yesterday has come and gone. So, leave me alone. Good morning and welcome to episode 760 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from Baseball Perspectives, presented by Playindex at BaseballReference.com. I'm Ben Lindberg of ESPN, joined by Andy McCullough of the KC Star, our best guest. Hey, Andy. Hey. And also Sam. And also Sam, Ben. Are you here?

Wow. Did you totally snub Sam? I was Sam? Are you here? Wow. I think you totally snubbed Sam. I was so excited about having Andy on again. Wow. Yeah, Sam's here too. Jeez. I was at the game on Sunday at Citi Field, and I went down to the field before first pitch, and I saw you from afar,

and I kind of tried to make eye contact and failed, and I was talking to some other writers and I figured you would walk by me or something and then I turned away for one second and when I turned back you had vanished and I never saw you again. I don't know where you went. You were probably doing some reporting.

I'm like Kaiser Soze with about 50 excess pounds. World Series pounds. It was a post-season thing. It was like some players shave their heads or grow their hair extra long and you just put on a few pounds. Yeah, sports writers generally just get fat during the postseason because you're up

all night. A lot of times you're with your friends who you don't see during most of the year, so you go out. I'm still trying to lose the 10 pounds I put on last October, and I'm sure I put on five more this October. So pretty pumped about how life's going. Can't imagine what it's like eating on the road out there, Andy.

You know, someone should do a story on that at some point. Good idea. I'm going to write that thing at some point. I've got the Word document. It's just a matter of doing it, you know? So you wrote a great game story from Game 5 that was many thousands of words long and had lots of great anecdotes in there.

Did you start that thing before? Just for my own mental well-being, I'd like to think that you at least had a draft or had laid out the opening, had your lead maybe before the game started just so it wasn't completely spontaneous and off the cuff. Was there anything? You haven't, I guess you didn't hear what happened to me during the game. No, what happened? In the 10th inning, every word

in my Word document became an asterisk. It was a bug. So I had to rewrite. Yeah, I mean, there's a chunk in the middle of the story. There's like a 200-word chunk in the middle of the story about the Astros

in that series. And I wrote that to get inside the sausage. That was something I was planning to write in my Royals lose game four to the Astros and the ALDS. And just kind of about how, like, you know, they were the best team in baseball for 152 games, and then for four nights with the Astros, they were the second-best team on the field, and that's really kind of the cruelty of postseason baseball.

And so I had that sitting in a Word document for a while, so I just kind of tweaked that because I thought the sentiment still applies to kind of trying to remind people just how close this team was really to the abyss. And, um, so I had that sitting in a Word document, but yeah. And in the 10th inning, I lost everything and I had to rewrite from scratch. So, um, that sucked. That really sucked. Yeah. That was not fun. It was, it was, no, I like, I was sitting next to Sam Mellinger, our great columnist, and he can tell you, I mean, I just totally lost my shit. I mean, I wasn't that point, and I felt like the Royals were going to win, you know, because it's now the bullpens, and they have a better bullpen. And so, you know, you're thinking, like,

this is the story that you wait your whole career to write, you know, the World Series clinch game story for the hometown newspaper, you know, and the hometown team is in. You know, this is the story that people are going to, you know, be in the time capsule, I guess. And, you know, when the hometown team is in, you know, this is the story that people are going to, you know, be in the time capsule, I guess. And, you know, it just completely disappeared. And I kind of, I lost it for about five to seven minutes. Like I couldn't, I couldn't really focus.

And, you know, Sam was, you know, Sam and my editor, Chris Fickett, were both kind of, you know, trying to help. And then, you know. Did you try hitting undo? Yes. Yes, you asshole. So what happened, literally every word became an asterisk.

And so I had like a thousand asterisks on my page. And so I hit undo. I hit control Z. I have a Mac. And then like asterisk started to disappear. And so I was undo, I hit control Z, I have a Mac, and then like asterisk started to disappear. And so I was like, okay, so now I'm just deleting what I wrote. Yeah, so I basically freaked out for about 10 minutes or so. And then in the top of the 11th, I put on my headphones, put the noise canceling button.

put on my headphones, put the noise canceling button. I listened to Dancing on My Own by Robin on repeat one. And like 15 minutes later, I kind of rebuilt the B matter. And then I had that 200 word chunk about the Astros that I could use. And so then I had, you know,

basically a working running there, but that was not fun. Wow. Well, you would never know from reading it that it was all asterisks shortly before it was published. The asterisks were better. Those were good asterisks, man. They had good pace, good rhythm.

It's like having an entire article based on Brian Price quotes. So, how was the parade? The parade was awful. I mean, it was great for, you know, the fans, obviously, there. And, like, you know, parades are a visual event. They're not a writer's event.

You know, they're about photos and videos. And the photograph, you know, like Dave Hewlett took for the star, like that front page that I think was going viral, as the kids say, on the Internet the other day. It was just incredible. And like looking, you know, like looking up into that crowd, like looking into a crowd of half a million people, you know, all at the Union Station in a city of 400,000 people was like was insane. all at the Union Station in a city of 400,000 people was, like, was insane. You know, it really, like, it was, like, it's something, like, out of a, you know, like a political rally or something like that, you know? Like, it was kind of, just the sheer mass of people was incredible. Getting there was miserable because there was, like, no instructions for the press.

It was just like, hey, like, if you get to Union Station, like, there will be, you can get in, just show a press credential. But the problem was when there's 800,000 people coursing through a downtown that's used to having like a thousand people walking around there, it was just mass chaos. And so it took, I'd say I left the Star at about 1230 and I walked for about two hours to, you know, kind of fighting through people to get into the train station to do it. So it was weird, but, you know, it was fun. Like, it's cool to look, just the visuals of it were incredible. So it's a cool event to say you have covered, but actually covering it was, you know, miserable.

Which Royals postseason run was more fun slash fulfilling for you as a writer? I think this one, because I think the games were more interesting. Well, I don't know. I mean, the games last year were pretty interesting, too. I think just this one, you know, because there was just more drama from series to series. You know, like last year they did play a lot of close games, but they won eight in a row. So, you know, there was kind of, there wasn't any real emotional swings. It was just like they won every night and then they lost to the Giants.

This one was definitely, I think, more draining because, you know, you go from trying to figure out like, okay, what happens if they lose to the Astros? You know, what are they going to do in terms of free agency and all that stuff? And then, you know, you look up and all of a sudden the game's tied. That was pretty crazy. So I think this one, but last year was great.

I mean, last year, like, every game was like a gift almost for the city, you know, because they'd gone so long without it. And this year, it was great to see that kind of that, all the sort of energy that was brought last year was kind of able to be replicated in a way. Was it more special because Alex Rodriguez was in the ballpark this year when it happened? Yes, yes it was. And the championship means more because the Royals were able to declare themselves champions of baseball in a year where Alex Rodriguez was eligible to play.

And so the best in the world were all on the field for all 162 games. And the Royals can say truly that they were the best because they beat the best. So you have seen, you know, most of these guys were here last year too. So you have actually seen a group of players who had postseason experience and the same group, almost the exact same group of human beings in the postseason who were too young or inexperienced to know better or who were scared

or whatever cliche you want to use about people without experience. Having been around them, having both watched them play and talked to them before and after they played, do you feel like there is any difference in a player who hasn't been there and a player who has? I think there's a level of confidence that, you know, that's hard to sort of really put a value on. But I think absolutely. I mean, they look at them like they always talked like they were going to be a great team because they had a ton of talent.

But it felt like very much false bravado, you know, at the start of 2014. Because they really hadn't done anything as a team, you know. And you could see them kind of becoming more and more confident in themselves, understanding. And, you know, really, like, the way, the proof of the experience, to me, comes down to in the highest leverage spots of all the whole season, you know, they had their best at bat. And I think, you know, they had their best of that. And I think, you know, people say that's a bunch in your luck.

People say that's, you know, whatever, like it's the Mets' mistakes, you know, so-and-so made mistakes. I just don't necessarily buy that. I really do believe that, you know, what separates this Royals team from the rest of the league this year was just that, you know, in the biggest moments, they came through and again and again and again. And doing it once, you know, maybe is a fluke.

Doing it twice, you know, is good luck. But when you have eight comeback victories in the postseason, you can just see that they believe, you know, they just believe that they're the best team on the field every night. And so it is, I mean, this is a team that in 2014, you know, Doug Yost would say things like, you know, these guys they struggle in front of a big crowd because they're trying so much to impress the crowd.

And he was almost like, he was almost like frustrated when they had sellouts because the players would try too hard. And, you know, now to like see them, you know, sort of just be completely calm in these big spots, it's interesting, you know. So I don't know. I'm not really answering the question because I do feel like they're the same guys, you know, like Lorenzo Cain still like wears like ill-fitting jeans and drinks Pepsi all the

time, you know, but like he also is maybe like the best player in baseball now. So like it's not like that they're fundamentally different, but you can just see it more in their play than in their personality. So how much credit do you assign to the Royals' advanced scouting or other sorts of scouting? Because we talked about it on the show. It seems like every time the Royals did something,

we found out later it was because of an advanced scouting insight that just happened to come right before that exact situation arose. And we've talked about whether every team does this or whether the Royals are getting too much credit or what. So what do you think? I think their advanced scouting department did a very good job. I think their coaching staff maybe deserves more credit than it had gotten. think their coaching staff maybe deserves more credit than it had gotten you know like um i think you know dave island deserves a lot of credit for you know getting the pitchers to because like

basically you know the advanced scouting department goes and does their recon they give it to the coaches and the coaches basically say whether it's worthwhile or not and then the coaches translate it to the players so it's up to the coaches to sift through the information they're given and then decide what has merit and then give it to the players in a way that they listen. I think that's the biggest thing that the coaches can do for advanced players. You don't teach them how to play, you don't teach them how to hit, but you give them the information they need, the information that helps. And the Royals do a great job of having coaches who speak the player's language. Rusty Koontz can watch video of a guy for four hours and, you know,

break down the one key that he needs to communicate to Lorenzo Cain or Gerard Dyson. Or, you know, I guess the only key with Terrence Gore is, hey, when this guy throws the ball, run. But, you know, for some of these guys, like, there's, you know, there's actual information that, you know, they're using. And so I think, you know, a lot of this is like, yeah, I mean, some of the Royal Scouts folks were, and I get to maybe in the heat of the moment, I wrote this maybe a little harder than I should have, but talking about how in their advanced meetings they were saying, hit the ball at Dan Murphy and he'll make a mistake. And yeah, that is a good scouting insight, but I covered Dan Murphy as a second baseman for two years.

I knew that. You know what I mean? And I think Mets, like, I think there's been this sort of counter-reaction. Mets fans are almost angry that the Royals were, like, taking credit for things that they knew. Like, yeah, Lucas Duda's not a good first baseman. But in the Royals defense, they never played the Mets, you know? So, like, they don't know, you't know shit about how Jeter throws the ball. So I do think the advanced scouting department deserves credit for that.

And I think Rusty Kuntz and Mike Jershley and Dale Swain and Donald Akamatsu and Pedro Grafal and especially Dave Island all deserve credit for translating the information the right way. But also, at the end of the day, the advanced scouting department can tell you that Lucas Duda doesn't have a great arm. They can tell you that there's going to be opportunities to run on it. But Mike Pasek and Mike Toomey aren't in, and Alex, like the advanced team who was on

the Mets, they're not in Eric Hosmer's ear saying, you've got to run here in the bottom of the ninth in the World Series when you're the tying run and potentially the last out. That's what Hosmer is having some balls and making a play, I feel like. So I feel like sometimes in our business, we find a way to never blame the players for anything and then never give them credit for anything. At the end of the day, it's an organizational thing. The advanced scouting department deserves credit. The players deserve credit. The coaches deserve credit. The Kansas City Royals, like, they can argue about who deserves it the most, I guess.

And they probably will. It's the sort of Pat Riley disease of more. Do you think that there's any fear among the Royals that some team is going to see what they did and copy them or steal their secret or that whatever they consider their edge is going to be devalued because other teams are trying it? Or do you think that they don't see themselves having a particularly copyable philosophy? Yeah. Like what would you say, like what could a team steal from them, for example? Well, that's what I'm asking you, Andy. Well, what I'm saying is like, you

know, people said last year, hey, our team's going to try and steal, you know, the Royals' method in the bullpen. It's like, yeah, sure, go find three closers. You know, that's not easy to do. You know, it's not easy to find nine good players, you know, which is what they have. Like, when Alex Rios is your weakest player, you've got a pretty good club. So, you know, that sort of thing, like, yeah, it's a, teams would love to have nine good players. Teams would love to have three closers. Teams would love to have, you know, the best outfield defense in baseball.

There's definitely things you can copy, but they're not easy to copy. You know, it's not, there's not a simple formula here. It's like when the, when the Red Sox won the World Series a couple years ago, everyone said, oh, well, you know, this is what teams are going to try and do. They're going to try and do, you know, short-term contracts for veterans. And then it's like, well, that's not easy to get seven contracts right for veteran free agents. You know what I mean? Like, that is not an easy thing to do.

It's not an easy thing to acquire that much talent with a Royal Tap. It's not easy to find yourself with three, you know, like, weapons-grade closers like they did in Holland, Davis and Herrera last year. You know, the Royals couldn't even do it this year. They only had they only had two guys in Davis and and Herrera. So it's I don't think there's a fear. I think their biggest I don't think they should have any fear right now, but I think their biggest issue is just how do we rebuild this?

How do we keep this thing going? You know, with the size of their market and the financial issues they're going to raise? I tweeted something right after the World Series about how there should be a moratorium on talking about off-season stuff for a while because it just seems awful.

Isn't it? It's so awful. It's really bad. You should shut up about qualifying offers. Shut up! Shut up! really bad it's like the day after you watch qualifying offers i know shut up the day after the world series like super exciting world series and we're all totally into it and then i wake up the next morning and i'm seeing like who's gonna get a qualifying offer and who could possibly be interested at that point i guess i yeah i understand who's the royals right shoulder gonna be next year my answer is who gives a shit?

Like, honestly, who cares? Yeah, I guess I get it if you're a fan of a team that's been eliminated for a month and, you know, you've had to watch these other teams succeed while you're at home and now it's finally time you can turn your attention to next year. But, like, Royals fans, how can they care right now? Everything is wonderful, and you should savor it for a few days. There's a thing that's happened in sports in the last maybe five to ten years,

and I think it's caused by video games and fantasy football and sort of things where people have become... These kids with their short attention spans. People have become less interested in the actual games and more interested in transactions. That's all people really. People become less interested in the actual games and more interested in transactions. That's all people really care about is how to build a roster,

who's going to sign where, who's going to get... In April, in April, you'll start getting questions from fans being like, who are the Royals going to trade for in July? And it's like, I have no idea. I don't know who's going to be available. How do you not know? That's your job. You don't understand how the sport works. Like, you know, and so it's just this constant insistence on transactional updates at these

points in time when there's really nothing going on. You know, like there's nothing going on right now. The Royals aren't going to sign anyone this week. They're not going to do anything. No one's going to sign, you know, David Price until the middle of December, like it happens every year. But there's just this thirst for sort of transactional news that, I don't know, it bugs me because I like sports.

I like people. You know, I like writing stories about sports. I like writing stories about people. There's nothing less interesting to me than free agency. I just find it so boring. Just wake me up with a guy's sign, you know, and then let's, like, actually, sign, you know, and then let's actually watch the humans compete in

the sport. But because of fantasy football, because of video games and people being their own roster doctors, that's all anyone wants to hear about. It's just a little deflating, I think, to come off this World Series and then just, you know, I'm on my screen on Twitter and it's inundated with

like, can the Royals sign so-and-so and so-and-so? It's like, who gives a shit if they're going to sign Gerardo Parra? They just won the World Series. Go on YouTube and watch the highlights. So are the Royals going to re-sign Ben Zobris? No. All of your tweets right now are people asking if the Royals are going to do something

and you quoting it and saying no. I love it. Yep. Yeah. And people call that trolling. That's not, it's just answering the question. Like people have a, people have a, you know, the definition of what trolling is and the definition of what snark is, has been totally distorted on the internet. Like I am legitimately answering questions like with legitimate answers and I'm, I'm being told I'm tro on the internet. Like, I am legitimately answering questions, like, with legitimate answers, and I'm being told I'm trolling the fans. And, like, I don't think that's what I'm doing.

Like, I know when I'm trolling people. Like, I know, like, what is designed to provoke a response. But, like, this is just providing information, and, you know, I don't know. Well, let me ask you the question that I think they're... I think the question they're trying to ask you, some of them aren't. Some of them just want to know about Alex Gordon and Ben Zobrist. But I think that what probably a lot of fans want to know is whether the added revenue of the World Series,

the added revenue of having great attendance, and just the expectation that it's a different team, is this now a team that is in the market for players like Johnny Cueto and Ben Zobrist as free agents? Or are they essentially just the same Royals except with better management? Well, what I would say is I don't know because they just had org meetings yesterday to start talking about this coming season. They're going to have a press conference today, and that's one of the questions that I or someone else will ask Dayton Moore is, do you feel like you will become more active in the deeper pool of the free agent market, going after the big ticket items? Do you think that's something you will do? My suspicion is the answer will be no.

And it always interests me, and this happened last year, but a team uses a business strategy to get to a certain point. In the case of the Royals, yes, it took a while, but it's hard to argue with what their process was. They built up the team a certain way. And then once you get to this point where you are forced to sort of choose sentiment versus your strategy, everyone wants them to go with sentiment. And the basic strategy is they should let Alex Gordon walk. They would be throwing good money after bad. Alex Gordon was one of the great Royals in franchise history, but he's 32.

He's coming off wrist surgery and a major groin strain. His body is definitely showing the strain of being a big leaguer for a long time. And if you pay him money, that's less money you have to spend on getting players like Edison Volquez, on getting players like Chris Young, on getting players like Kendrick Brown, all these guys who are considered so vital to what the Royals did in free agent. So it's like the team has a certain business strategy, and they use that strategy to win the World Series. And then people seem upset that they're going to break away from that strategy.

And that, to me, is just a level of sort of logical dissonance or whatever that, like, you know, I don't get. Like, this is what they let Billy Butler walk. They let James Shields walk, you know, and they didn't particularly feel bad about either one, you know. And so you just move on, you know, move on and try and figure out how it works for your market. Now, do they have the revenue to jump in the Volcans, like the Morales. Sometimes you'll miss and get Alex Rios. But when you hit, those are really, really valuable. And so I don't think they necessarily determine how they're going to be involved in the free agent market.

But I think if they made a lot of money last year during the playoffs. They had an incredible year for attendance. They had an incredible year with television ratings, although their TV contract is terrible, and I think they only get like $14 or $15 million a year from it. But they have the financial wherewithal to sign Alex Gordon. They did not engage in any sort of negotiation with Gordon all year long. If they wanted to sign Alex Gordon, they would have signed him in spring training. You know, that's when you sign that guy. You know, you sign him a year out. They did not even talk to him, at least to the best of my knowledge. And, you know, I could be

wrong about that, but no one's written to talk to him. And everyone I've spoken with has said there was no even negotiation. So if that's not a sign, I mean, I don't know. And do they have... Sam is sort of rooting for Raul Mondesi never to play again. No, not at all. I'm not at all. I'm zero rooting for that. So do they have enough players just

internally? I mean, is there like another wave of Hosmers and Moustakas and Perez's on the way? Or can they renew from within? No, not to that extent. But they do have Mondesi, who their people say can be as good a player as Correa or Lindor. That's obviously a pretty big ask. But they are very confident in Mondesi's talent.

They do have Bubba Starling, who despite being, you know, really, really struggling for several years in the minors, appeared to turn a corner in A ball and double A this year and is still relatively young and has incredible tools. You know, they feel like he's a better center fielder than Lorenzo Cain right now, but obviously the bat is what's going to hold him back. You know, they have good arms. You know, they've got Miguel Almonte.

They've got Kyle Zimmer, who is their best arm in the system, like better than Geronimo Ventura, but he can never stay on the mound. So there's talent there. But, yeah, I mean, they're at a point where they kind of need to figure out if they're going to try and extend the window or keep the window as wide as possible for the next couple of years. And, you know, in general, you should probably keep the window as wide as possible, I think, like, and just try and pick up as many flags as you can, as long as you don't, you know,

desecrate the farm system behind you. So, like, I don't see them trading Zimmer. I don't see them trading Mondesi. But, you know, yeah, it's more likely they'll be going to get guys through trade than they will, you know, bringing in superstar-like talent through the draft and player development, just because it's, especially in their case, where, you know, they don't have a ton of money to compete in Cuba. They are no longer drafting at the top of the, you know, the order. It's kind of tough for a team like the Royals to acquire talent now. And that's a challenge they're going to have to confront the next couple years do you think Dayton Moore got better at his job over the course of his time in Kansas City I mean was he really good the whole time that he was

an internet laughingstock and we just didn't appreciate it or did he get better in the way that Ned Yost sort of seemed to get better as a manager, at least in the postseason. Yeah, but what did people mock Dayton Moore for? Like, I'm trying to, like, was it just, like, the lack of interest and on-base percentage and that sort of thing? Yeah, or, like, he said he wanted on-base percentage and valued it, but then he signed Jose Guillen or whoever. Right.

You know. Yeah, I mean, they definitely became more judicious with their spending money, I feel like. But then also they signed Omar Infante to a four-year contract. They signed Jason Vargas to a four-year contract. Neither of those looks particularly great right now. I mean, I think Dayton Moore always had a vision for what he wanted the core of the team to look like. And, you know, you saw it this year, you know, with Gordon and Osmer, Perez, Moustakas, you

know, Kane, Escobar, et cetera, et cetera. And they've had that core in hand for a while. I think he's gotten better at augmenting the margins. And I think that they deserve credit for sticking with the core long enough for it to develop. And the players deserve credit for rewarding the team for their faith. So I think, yeah, he's gotten better at the margins. But the hard part is getting the core. You know, the hard part is finding the championship core.

And I think they did a good job with talent acquisition and then stuck with those players through ups and downs so they could get to the point where they would be able to flourish. So if you were starting a franchise, what would you take from your couple of years covering the Royals? Is that, you know know one thing that you could port over like would it be i want a team that never strikes out or would it be some other thing that we talk about with the royals just aggressiveness or coaching or whatever can you

guys answer that first i'd like to think about it actually for a second if there was something that immediately came to mind i don't think it would be the contact hitting for me. I think that's somewhat overblown. I think maybe there's some benefit to it in the postseason, but you have to get... There's different ways to get a cat offensively, I would say. Yeah, I guess, I don't know, I guess the emphasis on athleticism is maybe something.

I mean, every team likes athletic guys mostly but i don't like the royals seem to have done better in that respect and that they get guys who are athletic and that manifests itself in all these different ways so that they do make contact and they play great defense and they are great on the bases and all of these things are like young athletic player skills but it's it's conceivable that they're more patient with those guys. I mean, like we're talking about guys who developed in their fourth-ish year as major leaders, let alone, you know, I mean, where were they at 22 and 23 in a lot of cases? Yeah.

And Dayton Moore had that, didn't he have that like rule of thumb? Like once a guy has a thousand plate appearances in the majors, that's who he is or something. Like he kept saying that when Gordon was struggling or Hosmer or Moustakas or whoever. And those guys, I mean, they had more than that number of plate appearances before they got good. So they went even beyond that. You know, I think there's, I mean, I don't know if there's any one thing.

I think athleticism is probably the thing that separates this club. The thing that stuck out to me about the Royals this year, and I was talking about this the other day, and there was a lot of consternation in Kansas City about how the team played in September, and they went 10-13 in September. And so if they had gone 15-14, 16-13, whatever, they would have been a 100-win team, more than a 100-win team.

And if they'd won the World Series, they really would be considered, I think, one of the great teams in baseball history. I think you can still consider them that just based on their true talent level. But if they had, you know, had the stats to back it up, like 100 wins in the regular season, you could make the case that this is one of the best teams, really, baseball's seen in a very long time. And, you know, the two things that separated them were they were the best team on the field every night in terms of talent, and they were also the toughest team on the field

in terms of their ability to handle adversity. So how do you build a championship club that has toughness? And I don't necessarily know how you do that. I think there's some of that. Some of that comes from the fact that all these players were raised together, you know, in the minors. And there's a genuine sort of affection for one another that I think is probably missing from most clubs.

You know, there was not much of a mercenary effect here. You know, these guys that, you know, like Sal Perez called Big Holland, like, in 2007, you know, these guys that, you know, like Sal Perez called Big Holland like in 2007, you know, in the minors, like, you know, Eric Hosmer was living with Gerard Dyson in Arizona in 2008, you know, like these guys have been friends for a very, very long time and they do care about each other. And I know that's a soft or whatever, but I think it has some sort of value. And so if you could look at this team and just find a way to sort of find a way to learn from their toughness, there has to be value in that. And, you know, I'm sure like if, you know,

there'll be fathead types listening to this just saying like, oh, stupid or whatever, but it's like, okay, well then explain their consistent ability in the biggest moments to come through. I mean, consistent ability in the biggest moments to come through. I mean, and maybe there isn't an explanation, but I do think there is a value in their sort of, you know, their collective belief in one another, their lack of reliance on one singular or two singular players. Like, you know, so thinking about this, during the ALCS, Wade Davis, in game two, gave up like a single and a walk, and the lineup rolled over to the Blue Jays, and he had to face Donaldson and Jose Bautista

to get out of the inning. And I was asking him about it a day later, you know, how hairy that was, and he was just kind of like, yeah, I mean, in that spot, those guys are just trying to hit a home run, so I just basically throw it where they can't hit a home run. And there's something about hearing that compared to the Royals' approach

of just like, look, I'm just going to get on base, and the guy behind me will keep the line moving. And I know, again, it's so clichéd, but there's something just sticks out where you become, when your approach is just anything, when you're just looking to do anything to get on base, I think the pitchers will say those guys are tougher to face in those sort of big leverage spots than guys that they know are just trying to hit a home run or just trying to drive the shit out of the ball.

Like guys who are looking to put the ball in play and run and make something happen and, you know, you don't really have a zone where you can get them. I think, you know, that has value. And so it's more of a collective thing of, you know, again, like, what can you learn from the Royals? Find nine good players. You know, that's a start. It's not easy to do. So that's a rambling answer, just saying that this was a very, very good team that it's hard to learn things from, but you can learn a lot from, if that makes sense. All right, let me, this is my last question, but you can learn a lot from, if that makes sense. This is my last question, but how do you suppose, why do you suppose the weird hypothesis that Ned Yost was going to retire right after the World Series started?

I think just because Ned's old, and what does he have to do at this point? And that's just, I don't think there was ever any real legs to it, but it's the sort of thing in and around Kansas City that's been, you know, mentioned a bunch. So I figured it was worth reaching out to Ned and just, you know, making sure there's nothing to it. But he said there's nothing to it. So, but I think just, you know, Ned's 61. He's going to be 62. He's been a manager for 12 years. You know, he, he likes his farm. He likes hanging out with Jeff Foxworthy and killing deer, you know,. This is a stressful job. He's accomplished all the things he wanted to accomplish, I feel like,

besides the one milestone left for him is he wants to win 1,000 games. If he wins 75 games this year, he'll accomplish that. I don't know, but I would hate him. Nice. Nice. Hey, did you see we called Bill Pakoda? I did. Called Bill Pakoda? I did. Called Bill Pakoda?

I did. You know what I noticed most about that is that every time I see my words from our interview, they're cut down even further. I'm sorry, man. I think I'm now down to like a four sentence, a four word sentence is like the Sam Miller VP defending Dakota by saying, we thought they sucked. Yeah. What was it like? I don't, our system isn't great.

Something like that. Do you, does anything, does anything about Ned Yost strike you as old manager or I guess more since, I mean, obviously he's incredibly successful this year but more more relevantly on the cusp of being old manager you mean like being an old man like being like uh being like too old to do it in any way like out of touch

with the players or something physically physically he's all right like you know like sometimes he has to like pee like during interviews before the game or whatever but like he's all right. Like, you know, like, sometimes he has to, like, pee, like, during interviews before the game or whatever. But, like, I think he's physically doing okay. You know, he was a little, I think he was a little tipsy when he, like, brought me on the television the other night. I don't know if you guys saw that. I did see that. But besides that. You looked very, very comfortable.

As far as relating to the team, as far as pee. No. I think in a strange way, or not really strange because he made a conscious effort to the team, as far as being... No. I think in a strange way, or not really strange because he made a conscious effort to do this, but he's probably more attuned to the needs and wants of the modern baseball player now than he was five years ago. And the needs and wants of the modern baseball player are just, leave us the fuck alone.

Let us just run our clubhouse. Trust us to be grown-ups. Don't force us to not wear sunglasses on the team plane or whatever. Just let us act like adults and we will act like adults. I think he's given the Royals that freedom over the past three seasons. The acquisition

of James Shields was big for that because they sort of started, they took on some of Shields' swagger in a way and then they kind of learned to know, started, they took on some of Shields' you know, swagger in a way. And then, you know, they kind of learned to, you know, to embrace it all themselves. So he very much like is what players want. I don't know. It's different for different groups, but like with this current group, they don't need a, they need, they benefit from like Ned's like laissez-faire approach, you know, which is like, oh, you want a butt? Go for it. Or, you know, like, yeah, this is the lineup.

You're going to be batting sixth every day. Good luck. There's this kind of like the players determine their own fate in a way, and they don't really feel like Ned is pulling any strings because he's not. He's not doing much during the game. So, yeah, I think he's actually, especially for

this team, he's very much attuned to the needs of the modern player, which is just leave us alone. If we have an off day, tell me the night before, you know, and that sort of thing. But, you know, he's not really big on, like, forcing them to take infield or something like that, you know, before a game. They basically spent all of August without taking batting practice

because he's like, oh, you guys are tired. Who needs it? And, you know,'s like, oh, he's going to retire. Who needs it? And, you know, and so I think, yeah, I don't feel like he's really in danger of being too old or being out of touch. All right. Can I make one point? Yes.

About Terry Collins? Please. I thought Sam's points about the two mistakes that Terry Collins made in the ninth inning were great. I think the point about sending Dan Worthen to do his job was probably the bigger tactical misstep than leaving him in a batter too long, if that makes sense. But I feel like when Terry Collins in the dugout saw Matt Harvey sprint to the mound for the ninth, he should have immediately walked out and taken him out of the game and just been like, you are an asshole and you are done.

Like, we are not doing this. Like, this is the World Series. This is not the Matt Harvey show. I, like, that should have just been a sign that Harvey's head was not in a place. Like, he was, and clearly, like, the at-bat with Kane, he was too amped up, right? Like, he was missing up. He was overthrowing. He was, you know, like, be the, you know, be the Dark Knight of Gotham.

And, you know, he ended up basically opening the door for the team to lose because of, you know, a great at-bat from Kane, but also just general imprecision by Harvey. And so, like, this will never happen, but I was thinking about this watching it because he didn't do that for the other, you know, seven innings in between one and nine, right? Like, I'm pretty sure he just walked out to the mound like every other pitcher. But as soon as he does that, know that i watch sprint you should just call you up the top step

walking out pointing to the bullpen saying okay you're done like we are not doing this like and i don't know and that's just something that i'm thinking about yeah i don't disagree i thought it was going to spark discussion all right fine yeah i don't know i agree that was the only point i wanted to make on this entire podcast. I actually, one of my great regrets is that we didn't have you on regularly this year to talk about the Mets. I think it would have been a great recurring feature to have Andy McCullough on to talk about the Mets. And I'm like, not at all joking. I think you would have added a very interesting middle insight into it.

And excuses to have you on are always good. Well, and this came up in the conversation about advanced scouting, where, you know, it's like our scouts knew Dan Murphy, you know, would make a mistake. Our scouts knew Duda's arm wasn't great. And I'm just thinking, like, man, like, I knew this. Could I be a scout? Do I have low takes?

Obviously, it's more than that. But, you know, Our scouts knew that Christian was trying to pull homers Yeah, he's Mr. Anderson What did you think he was going to do? Anyway Alright, well we hope everyone Leaves you alone on Twitter

Andy will tell you when there's news He'll tell you when there's even anything Close to news, if there's a rumor If he talks to someone who says something might happen, he will write about it or tweet about it. You don't even have to ask him. If a new album comes out, he will almost certainly retweet that too, even though you don't know about that album because you haven't heard new music in seven years.

So enjoy your World Series championship and let Andy enjoy his few days enjoy your World Series championship and let Andy enjoy his few days after the World Series. All right. Thanks again. Everyone read Andy at McCulloughStar on Twitter and at the Kansas City Star on the

internet and in papers. Thank you, Andy. Yeah, no problem. So you can send us emails at podcast at baseballperspectives.com. Join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash effectively wild. And rate and review and subscribe to the show on iTunes. Support our sponsor, the Play Index. Go to baseballreference.com, use the coupon code BP,

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