Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 954: Two Inside Looks at Minor League Life

Episode Date: September 16, 2016

Ben and Sam talk to former Sonoma Stompers pitchers Santos Saldivar and Dylan Stoops about their progress as players, meager earnings, and clubhouse experiences during their rookie seasons in affiliated ball with the Brewers and Padres, respectively.

Good morning and welcome to episode 954 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from Baseball Prospectus, presented by our supporters on Patreon and Playindex at BaseballReference.com. I am Bellenberg of The Ringer, joined by Sam Miller of Baseball Prospectus. Hello, Sam. Hey, Ben. And those of you who have read our book, The Only Rules It Has to Work, are familiar with our two guests today. When Sam and I were running the Sonoma Stompers, an independent league team in

the Pacific Association last summer, we signed a bunch of players off a spreadsheet, sight unseen, based on their college stats. And two of the best players we signed were Santos Saldivar and Dylan Stoops. We picked them up at mid-season. They came in and were great. They dominated the league. And then, much to our delight, they were subsequently signed by major league organizations. So as promised, we are talking to both of them today now that the minor league season is over. So first, I'm going to greet Santos Saldivar. He is a right-handed pitcher who was a guest on episode 888 of this podcast when he was signed by the Brewers back in May. He was assigned to Helena in the Pioneer League.

Hey, Santos. Welcome back. Hey, how you doing? He was assigned to Helena in the Pioneer League. Hey, Santos, welcome back. Hey, how you doing? And now I'm going to greet Dylan Stoops, a left-handed pitcher, who, as we announced on the show not long ago, was signed by the Padres and got a little action in toward the end of the season with Lake Elsinore in the California League. That's high A.

Hello, Dylan. Hey, how's it going, guys? All right. So since we had Santos on already to talk about the signing story and all of the feelings he was feeling at the time, Dylan, do you want to sort of summarize your season and what you were doing before you got the call and how you felt during and after the call? Yeah, absolutely. So I was in the Frontier League playing with the Traverse City Beach Bums. It was the end of a long losing season, and it looked as if I was going to be

traded to a playoff contender. And on a drive home one night, I got a phone call from my manager, and I thought it was, you know, the dreaded pack your bags. And it turned out that the San Diego Padres had just called him and asked if I would be interested in joining up with them for the rest of the season, and they would purchase my contract. So a lot of emotions flooded me at that point. He had told me not to tell too many people. It wasn't official yet. So I mean, the next couple hours went by really slow. And when I finally got the confirmation, it was everything from laughing and then tears when I called my parents because they were just out of control. My mom dropped the phone and she was falling. And it was a great feeling. It was just

everything had come together at a time I had least expected it. And here I am now, a couple weeks later, got an amazing opportunity with the Padres and it turned out for the best. And for people who haven't read the book, can you tell us a little bit about your backstory? And I'm sure Santos hasn't read the book, so this will all be new to him too. Everything kind of leading up to when we signed you and why you were sitting there waiting for someone to call. Absolutely. In college, I had two pretty big surgeries. My freshman year, I had labrum surgery that it put me out for the first season and a half. And then when I came back, I still wasn't fully back. The velocity was down,

the performance wasn't there. And then I had a few nice runs where I got to play in Cape Cod, you know, a couple of summer leagues where I played really well. And right when I thought I was getting back, I had knee surgery. So then going into my senior season, I was still recovering. My first month was really rocky, but then all of a sudden the velocity started to come back. The off-speed pitches started to work better. And I went six and one in A-10 play. I thought maybe there'd be a chance there were a few scouts who had you know given me information asked me some questions but I mean other than that it was it was pretty dry and then you know draft day come and you know went and then it was

men's ball for me I went home I was I got a job I was playing in a men's league just trying to figure out if you know if there was a future for me out there. I went to a Philadelphia Phillies tryout, and they basically told me they liked what they saw, but I was a little too old for them to follow since I was out of college. And I thought it was over, and then all of a sudden, you guys sent me a message on Twitter, and my world changed. Except you still drove a pretty hard bargain and you needed the plane fare to get out there. Yeah, I did.

Just literally a week before I had paid for my semester of grad school. If you guys would have hit me up about seven days sooner, I probably could have swung the airfare. I have two details from that

from your college career that I think I remember, but I want you to remind me if I do. When you came back from your second surgery, it was your senior year. It's when scouts might have been looking at you to draft you, and you said your velocity was down. As I recall, you work in the sort of mid-upper 80s, generally. As I recall, didn't you tell me that you came back and you were throwing like, like your fastball was like 70 for the first couple outings? Yeah, that was with both my, both of my surgeries, actually. My shoulder surgery, when I came back my sophomore year, originally I wasn't supposed to throw at all that season, but we had a few injuries. My arm was feeling good. My, my first fastball registered at 72, and I struck a kid out on a 56-mile-an-hour curveball.

That's not something you see. It started to climb as the summer went on, but then after my second surgery, I was cleared a few weeks before the season, but I didn't want to spend time rehabbing. I was ready to go, and it was low to mid 70s at first. What is it like to be on the mound facing D1 hitters and you're throwing 72 with your fastball? I'll tell you, when I was a sophomore, it was scary. But by the time my senior year rolled around, I felt like I knew how to pitch. That's one thing the injuries did for me. It was more of like a puzzle, a chess match maybe, where I knew I wasn't going to beat them with velocity.

I wasn't going to get a lot of swing and misses on my fastball. But if I could change speeds, change looks, throw a couple of different pitches, you know, get them leaning, get them back, get them, you know, a little uncomfortable that I could compete. So it was fun. It was challenging, but definitely at times a little bit stressful. And then the other thing that I remember, and correct me, I might have a lot of details here wrong, but the men's league you were in was, you know, a fairly competitive men's league as far as men's leagues go. And as I recall, you had just insane performances there.

Like you had like, I don't know, do you remember what your numbers were in that league? Yeah, so the men's league, it's really interesting because I sit in the middle of the Atlantic League, an independent ball league, and a lot of the guys who get cut from that league have played affiliated ball and they'll find their way to one of the teams. A bunch of D1 guys who don't want to go away for the summer and play summer league, they stay home. So, I mean, like our team, we had four or five Division I guys in the lineup and two on the pitching staff.

So it was competitive at the top. It fell off towards the bottom. But, yeah, in that league, I think I went 45 or 50 innings, and I gave up, I think, one run. And they don't do an earned run average. They just do a run average, and I think that one was unearned. So for either of you guys or both of you guys, did you have to get physicals when you signed? And if so, what did that involve?

Santos, did you get one? Yeah, it was a pretty intense physical. Well, I'm from Texas, so we have a lot of farm animals. And it was like basically they put me up on a table like a goat and would just jerk every limb on my body to make sure everything was working. Did they get, I don't know, MRIs? Was any of it invasive or was it all just kind of prodding you from the outside? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, they would jerk my arm, jerk my leg, jerk my ankle, make sure everything was good.

I actually entered the season with a twisted ankle, but obviously I didn't want to tell them. When they were jerking my ankle, I was like, damn it. Maybe they jerked your ankle too hard in the physical and that's why. Yeah. So basically as long as you can bend your limbs without screaming, you can pass a physical? Yep, pretty much. Okay. Was yours similar, Dylan? Mine actually wasn't. much okay was yours similar dylan uh mine actually wasn't it was it may have lasted seven minutes i came in they strapped me up to an ekg machine and they ran the results i guess something looked funny and they were they were kind of looking at each other and like i will send it to specialists if you don't hear anything you're good and then they brought in a team doctor and he tested my knee since I had had surgery and then he checked my range of motion and in my left arm I'd had trouble with external rotation and I was just coming off a week where I threw 18 19 innings and he said well how's it feel and I was

like well I can throw and he's like ah that's all that matters there's three weeks left you'll get through it so so all of last season Sam and I were trying to figure out the level of competition in the Pacific Association and how it compared to various levels in affiliated ball. And we were trying to look at guys going back and forth from one to the next and how they did. And you both have a different perspective on that now from having pitched in actual leagues so santos what did you think of the pioneer league batters were they significantly better and if so how uh well i wouldn't say it was too much better it's just the fields were a lot smaller so you couldn't really you know you left the pitch up it was going to get hit a long way or you made a mistake hanging curveball they're going to go a

long way i will uh the competition i would say the pioneer guys they were just more free swingers so like if you had a plan going they really did it so if you act like you throw an outside fastball in the pacific league they're like they don't uh they don't know what to do with it so they'll just take it and the pioneer guys since they're freeers, they'll swing at it and bloop it over first base. A lot of those parks up there are at altitude too, right? Yeah. I'm not sure how high, but I mean, every park had a mountain in the background. So did you face anybody there that you came away thinking, like, that dude's going to be a star, you know, 25 years from now,

I'm going to tell people I played with him? The center fielder from Ogden, but I'm not sure his name. I know his last name was Peters, and he was like, I think he was all-star first and second half. And the second half, I think he ended the second half batting like 450, I think it was. DJ Peters, Dodgers fourth- round pick this year. Yep. And yeah I mean the the your team ERA was six basically so there were a lot of runs scored in that league. Yeah. And Dylan you only had time to get into a few games

in the California league but what were your impressions? Well, I mean, yeah, I only, I only threw in three games, but I got, I got to watch about two and a half,

three weeks worth. And there's a lot of really good hitters there. I think it's, it's similar to independent baseball to where guys are very aggressive against fastballs, but they don't make as many mistakes. You know, if you leave a ball just a little bit up, it's going to be hit on a line.

It's going to be hit hard. There's no room for error. And similar to Santos, some small parks, and then there was one or two big ones. But you would just see guys taking free hacks on any fastball they could get, taking a lot of breaking balls early and then trying to adjust late. But they're sitting there trying to hit fastballs. Everyone in the organization that I talked to was telling me that, you know, be prepared.

It's a good hitting league. If you throw a fastball and you miss, it's going to get hit. So you better be ready to use your other pitches, which was a good tip. And when you walk into a minor league clubhouse or if you spend some time around the team, to what extent are you aware of sort of who the prospects are? Because, you know, if you walk into the Pacific Association clubhouse, you know that there aren't really any prospects for the most part. But if you walk into a California league clubhouse, there are guys, you know, like Santos just mentioned in the Pioneer League, guys who were high round draft picks recently, maybe got signing bonuses, maybe they're on lists ranked somewhere. So how do you find out about that stuff if you do find out about that stuff? high pick they almost it's the way they act it a lot of the guys with me were great everyone was down to earth but they would talk about you know some other guys they had heard of or guys in the

other dugout and just there's some people who who know they're destined or believe they're destined for big things and they'll let you know but I thought that with the Padres and like Elsinore there was a great group of guys who were at the end of 140 game season and and were unbelievable towards me the only way I really found out who some of the bigger guys were where they would joke around like asking players like hey why didn't you buy the spread today you know you signed for a million like stuff like that and you would slowly start to realize who the guys were in the locker room that the Padres had money invested in. But then you just couldn't tell when you were in the dugout. It was just, it was a great group of guys. I think I got really lucky from the coaching staff to the team. A lot of people kept

telling me that, you know, they've been in minor league baseball for a year or two, maybe three, and they hadn't been around a group of guys like this. So I think I got lucky. It must be so like I mean the difference between you know a first round pick and uh 30th round pick is like literally like 2,000 times the signing bonus like the the difference in how like kind of rich and famous a first round pick is compared to a 30th round pick is is unimaginably large. It must be like a real challenge for clubhouses, I would think, to manage that. Yeah, we had Michael Geddes, I guess. He was a second round pick two years ago for the Padres.

And I guess a lot of people, I had read up online, a lot of people said he was one of the tooliest players in the draft. And I mean, he's only 20 years old so he's he's still you know a baby but he's he's already in high a he's playing well he's batting lead off he's he's hitting 300 and um you know he he was just one of the guys you could tell that you know people would would give him crap and just like tease him and tell him he has to go to instructionals or or you know he he better be buying you know the road trip spread next week because there's nothing on thursday and he's he's just kind of enjoying it and trying to fit in because i feel like there's also pressure on them

being you know a top pick they're expected to perform they signed for a lot more money but they they also need need to be able to mesh well with guys. And what were the crowds like at each of your games, Santos? I mean, was it Pacific Association-level attendance or better than that? It was a little better. We would probably, at home, we'd average about 3,000. Oh, wow. Lowest, maybe 800. And when we went to places like Billings, Ogden, Orem,

even Grand Junction, we had 3,000, 4,000. So it was a nice turnout. Yeah. That's like, you know, 10 times a Stubbers game. The game I went to that Dylan pitched in was a fairly Pacific Association type crowd. So I assume that was it all the way. But I guess you're further out in the middle of the country. went through that dylan pitched in was a fairly pacific association type crowd so i assumed that was it all the way in but i guess you're further out in the middle of uh the country middle of nowhere yeah there's no major league team around there the closest one's seattle from ours and

that's like a nine hour drive for them it's like montana idaho and uh well the colorado one is the one that i was actually surprised because it's two hours from Denver. It's all Montana, Idaho, and Utah. So, I mean, there's no baseball there. So did the community really, was the community really into you guys? Did you, like, would you get recognized? Like the first month, we were huge to them. Like they would see us on the streets and try to take pictures with us

but after our uh i believe it was like a 13 game losing streak yeah they wanted no part of us but they still show up to our games which was good and and you hear a lot about that adjustment to the the minor league life and being in a rural area which is new for some people and obviously that adjustment is probably more difficult for people who are coming from a different country or don't speak the language. But you live in Houston, you live in a very populated place, and Helena, Montana is not a huge place. So what sort of adjustment was that for you? Well, I mean, it was pretty much like living in uh sonoma for another three months we uh we had bikes to go to the field we uh had a couple little bars that they would go to i mean it was pretty much the same as sonoma

besides uh the the wine were there any instructions that you were pitching under i guess either of you but you know you often hear about a team will want This pitcher to work on this pitch and so They will take a pitch away And you know, you're not allowed to throw a certain pitch At certain times, did you have Anything like that Santos? They didn't allow two seams until you get to low A Huh, and is the

Thinking behind that Just that they want you to Work on other things, that that's an easier pitch To pick up or? They wanted everyone to be able to control And throw the four seam wherever they want you to work on other things, that that's an easier pitch to pick up? They wanted everyone to be able to control and throw the four-seam wherever they want. Instead of trying to pitch around guys, they wanted you to come right after them. Yeah, they hated walks, so you were allowed to throw a two-seam. You had to be able to control your four-seam and throw it.

I think it was like 75% strikes. So did you abide by that i mean was there much cheating going on so i would still throw it once in a while but not that often huh it's a change up yeah no and dylan i guess by the time you got there they just wanted to see what you had probably yeah for me it was they just wanted to have video they wanted to see my pitches and just see how i work and they just wanted to have video. They wanted to see my pitches and just see how I work. And they just wanted to get video. So they told me just to do what I had been doing all year. There weren't any restrictions. And I know on the whole of a pitching staff, they really didn't restrict them much. I knew there would be some guys that would be working

on pitches. And, you know, the pitching coach would suggest maybe throw that two or three times tonight in certain situations just to see how it's working. I know you've been working on it in the bullpen. But similar to what Santos said, they didn't want walks. If you were walking, guys, that was the biggest thing because in, you know, minor league baseball, they're not concerned about winning.

They get this schedule each day where they're told how many pitches each pitcher can throw. And if you're only supposed to throw one inning, 12 pitches, you can't walk. You can't afford to walk a guy or you're not going to be able to finish that inning and reach your pitch count. I want to go back to Santos. How much else was your pitch selection or the way that you were pitching different than it would be if you were focused single-mindedly on getting the batter out and winning?

I'm curious how much of a handicap it is or, I mean, not a handicap, but how much of a, how much it affects your stats or how much it affects your success to have them kind of working on your development and assessing you rather than, you know, getting batters out like it, like it would have been in the, in the Pacific Association. I want to say like the biggest difference was like, I like to throw curveballs ahead of the count. And since they were so fastball-oriented, they wanted me to challenge guys in the first pitch. And that kind of hurt me a little bit. And then 3-2 counts, I like to throw two-seam slider curveball or something.

I don't like to come right at guys. The biggest thing was I gave up two 3-0 home runs, where in the Pacific League I would have thrown two seams and just threw it right down the middle, but a two seam. But they wanted me to go four seam, and like I said, these guys were free swingers. I think one game we were losing 9-1 in the eighth, and the guys swung at a 3-0 fastball. Well, I mean, like I was going to say, that's absurd. But I guess that dude's playing to move up to the next level, too.

And that home run shows up on his stats. Did you were all the pitches called from the bench? No, the catcher called. OK, could you shake? Were you allowed to shake off? You were allowed to shake, but it was like basically frowned upon. Yeah, OK. And did they try to reassure you?

Did they say, you know, we're not looking at the stats, we're looking at the process, we're looking at the stuff so that you wouldn't worry about these sorts of things? Well, in my situation, like, my head coach was a catcher. He made it all the way to AAA. So most of the time, whenever, like, act like a guy would give up, like our starter would give up a home run, the catcher would get an air full. So, like, they would understand, like, it wasn't the right pitch to throw or something.

But for the most part, yeah, they were just saying, they're just trying to get through the day. And I meant to ask when Dylan was talking about the kind of hierarchy in the clubhouse and the difference between guys with big bonuses and guys without them. With the Stompers, it was always a big deal if you were acting big league, if whatever, you had kind of fancy gear and you looked like you were trying to look like a higher level pro than you were, that sort of thing, you would get ragged on constantly for that. Is it the same in the California League? How does being big league manifest itself?

And is it okay to be big league if you actually have a pretty good shot of being a big leaguer? If you wear anything Padres into the locker room each day, they all say, hey, you play for the Padres? Like, wow, that's awesome, man. How much did you sign for? Dylan, what if you wear something Orioles into the lockerres? Like, wow, that's awesome, man. Like, how much did you sign for, you know? Dylan,

what if you wear something, uh, Orioles into the locker room? Oh, no, you can't do that. You just, you just can't.

And I, I got whittled down to three shirts by the time I got out there. I couldn't, I didn't have anything left to wear. I only had one hat and three t-shirts with me that weren't Orioles related. But, it, they definitely, um, there they're guys you know driving nice cars in the parking lot and wearing nice clothes and fancy watches

and they were really big into uh Lululemon which is like I guess a recent brand over the last couple years of clothing and like athletic gear and uh the guys more or less like complimented each other they were more they were jealous when someone would come in with something new, almost like, you know, I want to go buy that or I hope I get the money to start buying things like you are. It was definitely like there were jokes at times where, you know, people would call each other big league, but you could tell that the guys who may have not signed for as much money,

they were almost afraid to step on toes sometimes. So things were more joking than serious a lot, which is nice. But I mean, because, you know, there's still 20, 20 or two year old guys just trying to figure out how the whole thing works. And they don't want to step on any toes and, you know, get a bad rep. And could either of you pick up on any or, you know, is it something that people on the team talked about possibly picking up some unequal treatment of players based on you know where they were drafted how big a prospect they

are are they used differently in games are coaches devoting more time to them that sort of thing or could you not really even tell based on that uh you couldn't really tell just the fact that uh they had to give everyone an opportunity and the coaches don't really tell just the fact that they had to give everyone an opportunity. And the coaches don't really make the lineup. It's more of the organization. So the coaches have little to no say in what goes in the lineup. And the only time is like whenever a pitcher has thrown too many pitches in one inning. That's the only time he has the opportunity to make a change.

Or a guy doesn't slide into second and makes it look bad. That's the only time they really take out a player. It's more of the organization that makes the lineup. So you guys played in the Pacific Association last summer, so you are used to not making very much money playing baseball. But minor leaguers not making very much money playing baseball is kind of a hot button issue these days. People actually start lawsuits over this. So how did this work for you guys? Did you both have host families? Were your meals mostly taken care of? And what does a minor leaguer make at those levels? I know my situation is a lot different. I was only there three weeks,

but we had host families. We're one of the only teams in their organization that has host families for everyone. So, I mean, not having to pay room and board helps out a lot. And then, I mean, the salary was double what I was making in independent ball, so that helped. That went a long way. And when it came to meals, different than Indy Ball, we'd have meals before and after games. So lunch and dinner was mostly taken care of, and especially when guys were rehabbing.

Almost the whole time I was there, there was a big leaguer rehabbing, and they would take care of the meals for us. So the expenses were nice. They took care of a lot of things for us. So, I mean, I think I had a really great setup. What big leaguers were there when you were there? John Jay, Tyson Ross, Jameel Weeks. I feel like I might be missing another one. There might have been one more. All right. And Santos, how did that work for you?

So, we would make $1,100 with taxes. It was like $ 950 and then um we had to pay 150 we we got meals before every game after uh batting practice we'd get like sandwiches or protein shakes and then after the games uh-huh so were you able to to stretch it to what you needed did guys on the team talk about it a lot where you's like a national news story, but at that level, are people talking about it and upset about it or wishing that things were different? Well, most of the guys live off their signing bonus. So most of the guys don't complain. Only a couple of the free agent guys like me and I think it was like four others were living off our paycheck. But I mean, we didn't have too many expenses to spend the money and it was such a small town. There wasn't a lot of stuff to do.

It wasn't the only place we'd go eat was like Buffalo Wild Wings. That's the only thing open after the games. We wake up at two, we wake up at one, two in the afternoon. So we don't really have time to go out and do stuff around town. So one of the big concerns for us last season was that we had no resources, no infrastructure. We weren't really able to make players better in any way. We were just trying to get through each day. And there is an observation in the book from Jared Mochizuki, who pointed out that, you know, once you're in affiliated

ball, in theory, at least, you are distancing yourself from an equivalent player in indie ball every day because you are getting better attention, better instruction, better nutrition. So just in every way, you are getting, you know, closer to major league attention than you would be if you were playing somewhere else so did you guys feel that you were getting better that you know you were kind of getting that quality of instruction every day and that you were uh i mean dylan you weren't there that long but that you know you were better at the end of the experience than you had been at the beginning yeah i feel feel like every day you were

getting a step closer. We're an independent ball. I mean, you could lift, you could run, but no one was forcing you or guiding you. There was a lot of direction where, I mean, I know I was there for a short time, but every day there was some sort of lifting or running or supervised throwing routine. So you felt like you were being monitored. And the fact that you were being monitored, there were things for you to achieve each day made it feel like you were getting a step closer. For me, it was a little bit different. It was it was a long season. For me, with independent ball, it's a grind, you know, no pitch counts, sometimes you're throwing on weird days rest or, you know, 12 hours of travel and my arm and my body

were shot towards the end of the experience and they they did a great job just just keeping me fresh and keeping me rested trying to uh to get me through the last couple weeks and what about you santos did you feel that not being able to throw certain pitches actually made you better with the other ones or were there other things going on that were helping you improve as a player? It more gave me more confidence in my fastball. Because after the first couple outings where I was going after them, but I was very hesitant. I was making too many mistakes. But by the end of the season, I was able to throw my fastball whenever I wanted, wherever I wanted.

And it wasn't much of a problem. So I wouldn't say it hurt me. It more made me a better pitcher. And just like an Indy ball, I wouldn't have thrown the four-seam in those situations. And now I can. It just made me a better pitcher. And that's something I wouldn't have done in Indy ball. I would have thrown just as comfortable as I was.

So Dylan, I saw your first start, and it was phenomenal and brilliant and amazing. And then the second start was very difficult. The pitching line, at least, was difficult to see. I'm curious what the difference was. Was it the difference with you? Was it the difference between the batters? Was it the difference just lock balls falling in? How did you feel about that second start, especially coming after the first one?

I think it was a little bit of a combination of a couple of those things. They knew I was having trouble recovering after the first start. And I had talked with them that it had just been a long summer for me. And without, you know, guidance and and the lifting and the running they they weren't surprised that my my body was falling apart you know my velocity was was down a little bit and I was having trouble consistently commanding some pitches and they uh when I went out for that outing I was just as confident and I think the first three hitters were ground balls through the four and six holes and it was just kind of a here we go and then an errant throw and then a walk and then you know a bloop single to left and I reached

my pitch count and the coach came out to me and he was a long time independent ball player and he's like you know what you're gonna have days like this we'll talk about it after the game and then they pulled me in after the game and they're like you know what you made some pitches you got squeezed a little bit. Nothing was hit hard. I think it was all six singles. They said, you just reached a pitch count that we can't let you surpass in an inning. So we had to take you out.

And we know that like, it's definitely not what you wanted, but I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't take it too hard or get down about this. Like it was, it was nothing that, you know, like you said earlier, they, they're not concerned about stat. They were not concerned about stat. They were more concerned about development. They knew I was, I was trying to grind through the rest of the season. And I think that they were just trying to reassure me that, that, you know, I shouldn't dwell on, on those couple batters.

It was, it was a nightmare though, for me, it was one of the longest innings I've been a part of. And it just seemed like everything was a couple feet out of reach and, and we were just one play away and we just couldn't get that play and i guess santa's uh similar question but the flip side there was a there was a run of about six outings or so where you were just absolutely dominant striking out um you know a batter to every every inning and uh you didn't allow any runs or really even any hits for like four or five outings. Was there something different then that you felt? And how did you feel about those outings, especially after having, you know, struggled initially?

Well, most of the games were away. So I felt a little bit more confident and going right after guys, which how I usually pitch. And it wasn't, I just felt good. Everything was working. I was spotting up everything. It's just how I was pitch and it wasn't uh I just felt good everything was working I was spotting up everything it's just how I was throwing and uh independently so Dylan the I think you the first person that you met in the Padres organization or close to it was Mark Pryor which is one of those moments where if if I got signed by a big league team that would be the moment where I thought oh my gosh like this is this is real this is real. This is amazing that, you know, they can never take this away from me. Do each of you have some moment of the season where

it like you, you'll take that with you forever as like, you know, remembering that you actually made it there and that it was, you know, different and also the same as you were expecting? Yeah. I mean, I think for me, it may be the Mark Pryor moment. I grew up watching, I mean, Cubs games were on right after school for me. And I would watch it before I would do my homework. And I saw this guy pitch and put everything out there and battle through all these injuries and similar things that I've gone through, you know. me about my hometown because he knows a guy who played at the pendant ball there and I'm I'm talking to this guy who's been an idol of mine that you know I have no idea I have anything in common with and he's just congratulating me for for joining the organization and telling me how excited he is for me to be there and then after my first start he he shot me a text and I'm like this is Mark freaking Cryer texting me right now like this is this is absolutely crazy this is that's that was just what made it truly special to me was you're part of something bigger where an independent

ball you know there's you don't get promoted you either stay or you go home normally and it's like you're part of an organization and the guy at the top of the chain is taking his time to reach out to you and you know say nice work tonight and this is a guy that was one of your heroes growing up. And I don't know if many things top that. I want to say the one time I, like, just felt like I made it, it was we were playing at Grand Junction. And my mom actually went out to see me. She was there for two days.

And I told the coach if I can throw one of those two days. And they were like, yeah, sure. We love to do that when family members are in town. And I ended up striking out the side with like 10 pitches. And I just looked up and all the crowd was like kind of booing me. My mom and my sister were in the middle just cheering. It was a pretty exciting moment for me. So lastly, you guys have both been on the verge of giving up baseball probably multiple times in the last few years. So do you have any idea what the future holds? Are you planning to continue pursuing this?

Or have you not made up your mind? Or do you not know yet? I have no clue what's happening, to be honest. They, you know, they signed me up for a lifting program online. They've been sending me emails. But like we never had a conversation at the end because I mean, my coaching staff, not the ones who make the decision. Right. That's not the ones who make the decision.

If there is a future for me, which I would love to get an opportunity to go spring training, have a healthy off-season with some workouts and see where it takes me. But as of now, I have no clue. I don't know how long the waiting process is. I know they have instructs and the Dominican instructs and then the folly and pre-agency. And I just I'm not quite sure where my future lies. But, you know, I would I would love to have an off season and give it all I got for spring training and just, you know, see what happens. Yeah, pretty, pretty much the same thing.

The coaches, you know, they just give you the congratulations on ending the season and hope to see you in the spring. But they don't really tell you anything because they're not the ones who make the calls. So, I mean, as Dylan said, I'd be more than happy to go play another year. Well, I saw the spring training field, and I would love to play a couple games there. But we'll just see what the Brewers decide. And are you guys looking for off-season jobs now? Well, I have like six accounting jobs lined up. The only thing is I don't know which one to take because I don't want to burn any bridges just in case.

I have to go back in March. So I'm probably going to take the one that hurts me least in the long run. Do you know what you're doing, Dylan? No, that's the hardest part is I'm unsure about my future. So I've actually looked into, now that I have my master's, I was thinking about substitute teaching locally. It would be good hours, and then I'd still be able to work out and throw before and after. So I'm looking for a job that would be good hours, and then I'd still be able to work out and throw before and after. So I'm looking for a job that would be somewhat flexible and allow me to still train.

Because kind of similar to Santos, I don't want to take a full-time offer and then burn a bridge with a great company in case I would get the call to go back into spring. Yeah, that is tough. Do you know what most guys on the team do if they're not living off a big bonus a lot of coaching or that sort of thing in the offseason yeah some guys do coaching and lessons which you know i've been looking into uh there's different facilities they'll take different amount of money out of your lessons but um it's just that's also a huge time commitment whether you're gonna be coaching a team on the weekends or this or that.

A lot of guys just do part-time work in the offseason to try to make ends meet and spend time away from home with family or girlfriends and loved ones and stuff like that. It's definitely a grind. All right. Well, we wish you the best, of course, and we're really happy that you got this chance. We thank you both for

coming on. So people, if you want to reach out to Santos or Dylan yourselves, you can. You can find them on Twitter. They will not clog your timelines. They tweet about once every couple months or something. Basically, when they get signed by a big league team, they might tweet about it. Other than

that, no. So Santos is at Saldivar Santos and Dylan is at Stoopkid underscore 24. So good talking to you guys. Santos, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. And Dylan, good talking to you too. Absolutely. Thank you guys for everything.

All right. So that is it for today. If you want to read more about Santos' and Dylan's backstories, you can buy our book. It's called The Only Rules It Has to Work, Our Wild Experiment Building a New Kind of Baseball Team. You can find out much more information about it on the website, theonlyrulesithastowork.com. Please rate and review it on Amazon Goodreads if you enjoy it. You can support the podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectivelywild. Five listeners who have done so already, Hayden Kane, Nick Raimondi, Ryan Medders, Joe Timmerman, and Paul Budda.

Thank you. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash effectivelywild. And you can rate and review and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. You can get the discounted price of $30 on a one-year subscription to the Play Index by going to baseballreference.com and using the coupon code BP when you sign up. I'll have an episode of the Ringer MLB show up later today, so you can also listen to that to tide you over till next time. And you can contact me and Sam

via email at podcastatbaseballperspectives.com or by messaging us through Patreon. Thanks for listening. That is it for this week. We hope you have a wonderful weekend, and we will be back next week. We hope you have a wonderful weekend and we will be back next week. Outro Music