Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 970: Managers, Closers, and Copycats

Episode Date: October 31, 2016

Ben and Sam banter about Manny Mota Grip Stick and Smash Mouth’s latest Twitter feud, then discuss the Cubs’ use of Aroldis Chapman in Game 5 and some strategic considerations for the rest of the series.

Hey, I know where you're from. It makes you that much nicer to meet you. Hey, I know what you've done. It makes you that much better to defeat you. Hey, I know where you're from. It makes you that much nicer to meet you. Hey, I know what you've done. Good morning and welcome to episode 970 of Effectively Wild, the daily podcast from Baseball Perspectives, brought to you by the Play and Exit Baseball Reference.com, and our supporters on Patreon. I'm Sam Miller of ESPN, along with Ben

Lindberg of The Ringer. Hi, Ben. Hello. How are you doing? I'm okay. I got a couple of, and I think you got a couple, and I think we got a couple of notes about Kyle Schwarber's bat and the heater. I think I got the definitive one. If you want to read any of what I will consider to be the non-definitive ones, you're welcome to, but I think I do have the definitive one, I believe. Okay, go ahead. All right. So this comes from Stefan Reichert, my old boss at Baseball Prospectus, who plays in an adult league and so is therefore equipped to speak from experience when it comes to baseball bats. He's actually a huge bat nerd as well.

And he, I think, I don't think I, this is a secret, but he noticed that game, like he wanted to have a really good bat for his league. He wanted to have high quality wood and the bats that they sell in the stores, those are basically the rejects from, I don't know, they're not the rejects, but they're the second tier bats from a production, from a print or whatever. So if you have, like, say you have the David Ortiz model, they make a bunch of bats and the best ones, the ones with the best wood, the best grain, go to David Ortiz. And then the next tier go to minor leaguers who have, who, who purchased from that bat company.

And then by the time it gets down to you, you're getting like third tier bats. And he wanted to have a, you know, really good quality bat with Major League Wood. But those are very, not only are they, you know, hard to get because they go to David Ortiz, but they are very expensive, you know, a few hundred dollars. very expensive, a few hundred dollars. What he discovered is that if you go on eBay and search for game used bats, you can actually find game used major league bats from all sorts of major leaguers selling for like 40 bucks, 45 bucks. And I think that the explanation is that at the end of the season, a lot of times the players will give the bats to like the clubbies and the clubbies will go sell them on eBay. So, so he's got bats from like, he's got this great menagerie of, of bats from like fringe major, major leaguers. And you can't get the David Ortiz one because a game used

David Ortiz bat is going to cost even more than $300. But like, have like a Hector Sanchez bat? I'm going to, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, but a game used, like a game used Scott Spezio bat has no extra cachet. And so you can get those, like, it's just like used bat. And so he has a bunch of these, I forget, I forget who, but he's got great stories for all of them. And he gave me a game used bat, a used bat from the former briefly major leaguer Jesus Sanchez. And so anyway, Stefan is a total bat nerd. It wasn't Hector? No, it wasn't.

Oh, okay. So anyway, Stefan writes, So my adult league teammate Jeremy loves your podcast and yesterday told me that you guys talked about Schwarber warming the Moda on his bat, but thought he was potentially doing other things with the heater. And Jeremy was jumping up and down yelling at your podcast. So I listened and here's the deal. Schwarber uses Moda Stick, invented by Manny Moda, which is heat activated. I and many players at all levels have used it for years,

and in cold weather, it does not work well. Its effectiveness decreases the colder the weather. We have two games remaining in our adult league, and recent games have been cold, 40s to 60s. Some players set their bats in direct sun to try to get the Moda tackier or tacky at all. Moda also gets on batting gloves or is rubbed directly on the gloves.

And this, all caps, this is a reason that guys blow hard into their hands. Ryan Braun often, for instance, before or while batting, trying to activate Moda, not actually warm their hands up. We also leave the Moda stick in the sun. In 80 plus degrees, it's nearly runny, and you merely tap it against the bat handle or taper. But when cold, the Moda is difficult to apply, and the stick could literally snap if you don't hold it well at the top while trying to apply it to your bat. Moda goes on smooth at room temp and often has a pinkish-white color with some streaking, especially when cold or freshly applied. A very different look from traditional and less used pine tar.

Some players rub it above their hands only on the taper of the bat, especially in warm weather. Some put it there and a little on the hands area of the bat as well. The problem with putting it directly on the hands area is the bat can become too sticky, so most players prefer to grip the taper as needed before batting or between pitches. Here is Schwarber with Moda on the taper. And he has a picture. And here, another picture. Here, picture in the World Series. Picture. And here, picture, you can see the pinkish-white hue. That last pick is Moda, freshly applied before the plate

appearance. One roll through the dirt, etc., or touched several times, and that streaking is less evident. However, in colder weather, the streaking will remain longer. Think of it as not melting or spreading out as quickly when the hands grip and twist the bat as it does in warmer weather. But Moda does not dry out when heated. It simply becomes stickier. Most players, okay, that's all. All right. I could buy a can of Moda stick right now for $13.95. Have it tomorrow. I've got a bat that needs some. Yeah, interesting. Sounds like many modas got to get back in the lab and find a new formula that can activate at a lower heat. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so that's that.

I also want to read one more quick thing from the Bill James Historical Abstract. Okay. And this is an update, and through this, you are going to be able to track my pacing of this book. I'm now in the 1940s, and the section on nicknames says, After a decade of use as instruments of torture, nicknames became almost apologetically pleasant again in the 40s.

Players of ordinary skills were bestowed such mildly flattering nicknames as Mercury if they ran well, Buckshot if they threw well, or Old Reliable or Steady Eddie if they were there every day. An interesting point is that of the very few derogatory nicknames of the 40s, most were bestowed on players who didn't go to the war. It was hard to say anything bad about a man who had risked his life for you. You just didn't do that in the 40s. Mm-hmm. All right. And we got requests to talk about two things, many, many requests to talk about two things over the weekend.

One was the terrible fun fact that Fox used, and we talked about it on the Friday night Patreon simulcast, so we won't dwell on it here. Friday night Patreon simulcast, so we won't dwell on it here. But the fun fact that Coco Crisp was the first player 36 or older to have an RBI in a 1-0 World Series game since 1956 was definitely on the Mount Rushmore of terrible fun facts, I think, because as you pointed out, there have been only three 1-0 World Series games since 1956. And that's just not an impressive fun fact at all. Impressive to be 36 and have an RBI in a World Series game, but not an impressive fun fact. And the other thing that 20 people asked us to talk about was the Smash Mouth Oakland A's Twitter feud. I didn't know that. I didn't get any questions they all

went to me because i'm the smash mouth guy you didn't see the a's smash mouth yeah i did i tweeted about it yeah all right that morning yeah my contribution to it was referring to it as the smash mouth smith smith it works it works in print it doesn't work if you say it but if you make the a capitalized and then put an apostrophe after it, it becomes Smash Mouth with A's in the middle. And so I just refer to it as the Smash Mouth feud. And I checked Twitter all day to see if it had caught on. And it is trailing wobbly chair for cultural penetration as far as I can tell. Yeah.

as far as I can tell. Yeah, so it was Smash Mouth went after the A's for, I don't know, being jokes, for not spending, for not making more off-season additions, for not competing harder. And the A's Twitter account went after Smash Mouth for being Smash Mouth, basically. And that was it. And it went back and forth for a while. It got pretty heated.

And then the A's Eventually did the Kind of lame apology After all of the back and Forth maybe it was someone who Took over the Twitter account and found Out what whoever had been running it Before was up to but Eventually the A's apologized and

Offered them tickets and a First pitch anytime they're in The East Bay so maybe we'll be seeing a Smash Mouth first pitch next season. Look, I don't know. It's not necessarily a good look to get into a midnight feud. No, it's unbecoming of a corporate. And yet, but I would say that the execution justified it. I thought it was solid execution.

And it's Smash Mouth. This is not... Easy target. Yeah, look, it's not fastball. It's not the Barenaked Ladies. It's not one of those bands that's just trying to make good music and stay out of trouble. Like Smash Mouth is, in some sense, seeking trouble every time they go out there. But I hesitate to say this because even as a joke, I don't want to be misinterpreted. And so Ben, I will leave it up to you.

But this does seem like political correctness run amok. I have not yet generally seen much political correctness running amok but i would say that this this might be like you gotta if you get in a feud with smash mouth you gotta let it eat and it's just not i don't think you're doing any good backing down from smash mouth's buddy who runs their twitter account which is i think i think that's what i as i recall somebody somebody did the research to figure out who runs their Twitter account. And it's just a pal of theirs. Steve's not actually there tweeting.

I also, though, and what my tweet was, and so I'll bring it up to you, is the highlight to the feud to me was when Sean Doolittle jumped in and said, hey guys, why can't we be friends? I know last year was tough for the A's, but I'm a believer. And the Smash Mouth buddy then replies, just last year? It's been brutal for years. And so I have been since then wondering whether he noticed that those were two famous Smash Mouth song titles being deployed for a joke. Do you think he recognized? I do think so. They must get so many tweets about, I mean, they get tweets about their few big hits so often that I would think so. Although the fact that he's not in the band maybe makes it more likely that he didn't.

But yeah, I think just Pretended not to notice Is why can't we be friends one of their big hits I felt like that's a deep enough Yeah I think that was a sort of a deep enough cut That it really made me believe that Sean Doolittle Owned Fushu Meng At one point and I appreciated that Yeah so I agree I think

I don't know if I were running the Ace Twitter account I probably wouldn't have Engaged with Smash Mouth But if twitter account i probably wouldn't have engaged with smash mouth but if i did i probably wouldn't issue a formal apology for it either so yeah all right i guess we should talk about some baseball all right so i've seen the postseason is obviously different for how relievers get used managers do all sorts of fun things that we wish were possible or wish were politically possible during the regular season. And we have a lot of two-inning saves. And we even have situations where the closer will come into a tie game and go even three innings.

I think Mariano Rivera had a game once where he went, I think, three and a third in a tie game. And Keith Falk came into a tie game in the seventh and went, I think three or maybe two and two thirds for Boston once. And there's all sorts of fun things happening. And so when Aroldis Chapman came in to the seventh last night, I thought, oh, okay, so that's normal. That's normal behavior. It's the postseason. And so I went to go track down how many instances there were of a closer actually coming into a save situation in the seventh in the postseason. And I was shocked to find only two instances since, you know, the modern era, the modern bullpen era began. Norm Charlton in 1995 and Brad Lidge in 2004. And yet we have obviously also Kenley Jansen two and a half weeks ago. So that is two instances in the past, well, just in this postseason. And so I wrote at ESPN about how I feel like this is a strategy that, or a tactic that is sort of picking up momentum

a little bit. And Andrew Miller is different, but in a sense, another data point because it's even more aggressive use, more aggressively unconventional use of elite closer. And the reason I think it's picking up momentum is because it is simply a deeply, deeply satisfying strategy to employ. I don't think that there was any Dodger on the field who thought, oh no,

they're bringing in Kenley Jansen right now. And I don't think there was any Cub that was sad to see them bring in the best pitcher they had. And I don't think there's any Indian who is ever disappointed to see Terry Francona emerge from the dugout and bring in Andrew Miller. So this is not going to be the whole episode. I don't even know what we're going to talk about this episode, the World Series. But do you think that this is movement toward a significantly more aggressive, more flexible, less orthodox, less all everybody does exactly the same thing way of managing that we've seen in the last 30 years? Or is this just a blip based on a combination of three fairly unconventional managers or three fairly uh aggressive managers i guess plus the having the three best relievers in baseball

pitching in the postseason right now plus you know just a couple of unusual circumstances where like you know it took until now for the cubs to do this with chapman and i don't know you know, it took until now for the Cubs to do this with Chapman. And I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, Madden was starting to get some criticism for not managing more like this and for having his kind of, you know, pretty good bullpen guys be in important situations instead of using Chapman. And I think, well, you mentioned in your piece that when this has been used in the past, it hasn't really worked that well, right?

Yeah, well, I mean, there's only been three cases. And yeah, Lidge and Charlton both blew their saves. And then Kenley Jansen ran out of steam. Didn't finish his. Right. So, I mean. But it has worked. Of course, it has worked with Miller and it did work with Chapman.

And really, it did work with Kenley Jansen, too. Yeah, right. We don't know what would have happened if he'd had to get two more outs or if instead of Kershaw had been J.P. Howell. But you'll certainly remember that game as a triumph of managing. Yeah. And Chapman's usage may have been the riskiest of all in that he hasn't really been used this way Particularly with the Cubs he did go two and a Third in and outing against the Indians Actually in July that was when he was

Still with the Yankees He also had a I found that He had a seven inning appearance For Louisville in AAA Yes right he had a bunch Of them in fact he was a starting pitcher Yeah well this was his longest ever Relief appearance innings Wise at least it was just short of his career high pitch wise i think but

it was risky because he hadn't been used this way and there was good evidence that he didn't want to be used this way and he said as much to reporters and i think madden was aware of that and we even talked recently about whether madden should have done more to prepare Chapman for something like this down the stretch, whether he should have conditioned him to do this sort of thing. And he didn't. This was pretty out of line with what Chapman has done. And yet it was probably the right move. And it worked out really well, I think even better than you could have expected. out really well, I think even better than you could have expected. So do I think it will catch on? I do think it will catch on. I think it's a confluence of a lot of circumstances with Miller being the unique guy that he is and Alan being the unselfish guy that he is and maybe this combination of managers. I have seen the theory a few places that this is all just a response to the Showalter game. Oh, I meant to bring that up as another data point too. The reaction, sorry, you talk. Yeah, well, so because Showalter managed by the book and it was so clearly a

counterproductive decision and it was treated as a counterproductive decision, I don't know, productive decision and it was treated as a counterproductive decision. I don't know. I'm sure some people defended it, but it was very roundly criticized. And I think it was just so obvious that it was the wrong move that everyone has at least seen how Showalter was greeted when he made that move. And that's the theory, at least, that because of the backlash to that move and because of how it backfired, that then freed up all the other managers to do unorthodox things, or at least it put it in their heads that they should do unorthodox things. And I don't totally know whether I buy that. I think that Francona was more or less doing what he's doing now down the stretch, you know, in a less extreme version, but he was definitely using Andrew Miller in the sixth inning and for multiple innings and all that well before Buck Showalter did his thing. So I think Francona probably would have done what

he's doing anyway because of the shorthanded rotation and all that. I think that was a response to his personnel. And once Francona started doing that, then I think that's more likely to be the influence on Dave Roberts and Madden than the Showalter game is. So I don't know whether I buy the idea that Showalter was the first domino. Yeah. Kenley Jansen, for what it's worth, also was used in more four out plus saves this year. At least when I did my state of the closer piece in, well, I guess I was only in June. Wow. Time flies. He at the time had pitched more four out plus saves than anybody else in baseball. So it was already something that Dave Roberts had kind of expressed an orientation toward. And really it doesn't, I don't know what Madden's history is with this sort of stuff.

Like, I don't remember him using Rondon in any particularly interesting way, but it's, you know, it is Joe Madden. He's different than some of the other managers. Yeah, I think in some ways he's pretty conventional as an on-field manager and an unconventional off the field. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know. Why do you think he's conventional on-field? Where do you see that?

I don't think he's like – I mean, he was one of the pioneers of the shift and all that. So that definitely is a point toward him being unconventional. And he's the leader of the shift backlash. Yes, right. Yeah. So I don't know. I guess, and he does do the, you know, putting pitchers in the outfield for a batter or two things. So that's pretty unconventional too.

So I guess it's less that he's conventional than that he's, I don't know that he's a brilliant tactical manager. Or I don't know. He still makes mistakes, it seems like at times. I think Francona is probably a better tactical manager, although maybe not better overall manager. I don't know. Anyway, I think that it can't help but catch on just because it's been such a high profile success. There is at least the perception that the Indians would not have made it this far if they hadn't done what they've done. So I think that we won't necessarily see it all the time in the regular season just because regular season has different demands and you can't do this.

You can't have a playoff managerial style for six months. But I think we might see it a little more often. We might see some closers in tie games on the road more often during the regular season. I don't think you'll see everyone coming in in the sixth inning and staying for two innings, but I think we might see some regular season erosion, and then once we get to the playoffs, I think it will be assumed that teams are supposed to manage differently.

So I think it has to catch on to a certain extent. Yeah. So my premise was basically that you don't need a complicated argument. You don't need really any argument at all to convince somebody that it might be a good idea to bring in Chapman, that it is a very easy sell, that you just implicitly are attracted to an idea that gets your best pitcher into the game. And there doesn't seem to be any real counter argument to having your best pitcher in the game, uh, if he can handle it.

But then I also noted that it might be the same, the same sort of sentiment that got the Indians in a bit of trouble in game five, because with a large lead on Saturday, Terry Francona let Andrew Miller throw 27 pitches with a lead that started at three and was six for his second inning. And Miller said before the game that he was somewhat compromised. He was definitely available. He would have pitched the ninth inning if the Indians had been ahead or if there had been one, but he was going to be pitching in his third day in a row. He'd thrown, I think, 45 pitches cumulatively in those two games. And I don't know exactly what his max would have been, but it's probably, you know, 20 or 25 in that game instead of, you know, we've seen him throw 47. And my guess is that at this point in the season, if he were needed, he would probably have 55 or 60 in him.

At least he'd be willing and you could see his manager being willing to go there. And so if you just start doing the roadmap to 27 ounce, if you had a fully rested Cody Allen, if you had a, you know, Andrew Miller with a full day of rest, you could sort of imagine a situation where they get five or six innings out of those two. And because they didn't have that, Trevor Bauer was left in in the fourth inning. There was sort of some bridge concerns between Bauer and Allen and Miller. And the Cubs scored all those runs in an inning where you sort of by this point in the postseason think, oh, well, this is where Terry Francona stands out. This is where he goes out there and is really aggressive. And instead he left him out there for an inning in which he was getting hit hard for a while. So, I mean, does this change your, I guess, how much does this change your assessment

of Francona as like sort of the manager of this postseason? And do you think that it really did have a significant shift on their chances of putting the game away yesterday? I didn't like the move to leave Miller in. We were talking about it at the time on our Patreon broadcast, and we couldn't believe that he was still in there throwing all those pitches. So I think maybe Francona fell in love with his strategy a little too much and using Miller and Allen and Kluber for more than half of the team's postseason innings entering game five has worked out really great for Francona. And so maybe he kind of just got hooked on that strategy and just wanted to use Miller more and more and more. But I don't know that the outcome of yesterday's game really would have hinged on that strategy and just wanted to use Miller more and more and more. But I don't know that the outcome of yesterday's game really would have hinged on that. I mean, it could have,

I suppose, but probably not. So I don't know. If you had a fully rested Miller and Allen available, do you think that Trevor Bauer finishes the fourth inning? Well, I don't think he should, but does he? I mean, Miller has never come in that early, so that would be a new boundary broken. So I think in a chance to put it away, yeah, maybe that might happen. I don't know. It's a lot to count on like three innings from each of them or close to that. But maybe he comes in there. I thought both managers maybe left their starters in too long in game five.

And the Chapman move could have easily not worked out. I won't say backfired, but not worked out if the Indians had just scored a run somewhere along the way there, which could have happened very easily. Then maybe that would have made people less likely to do the closer in the seventh in the future because they would have assumed, well, Chapman's not comfortable. He doesn't like coming in early. So that's why he allowed the run, whether it was or not. So the fact that it worked out perfectly, I think makes it more likely to be adopted in the future. Yeah. If you bring in Miller in the fourth, I'm not saying you get through the game with

Miller and Allen because when you put it as three innings from each, that sounds like a lot. Yeah. But if you say it as 40 pitches for each, that doesn't sound like a lot. They've both thrown 40 or more pitches in, I think, two different outings this postseason. So they do have, at least by our experience, they do have 40 good pitches in them. And if things work out, you can get through six innings on 80 pitches if you're those two guys. So it is very possible that at some point along the way, you go, oh, whoa, they've worked some counts and we are going to need a couple outs from Brian Shaw or Zach McAllister or something like that,

in which case you hold your breath. I think that it's plausible that you bring Miller in with one out or none out in the fourth, and things do go well, and you make it through. Uh-huh, yeah. All right, so the Cubs were apparently two-thirds, 67% likely to win that game, according to Pakoda. Do you think the Cubs are favorites in each of the next two? with Lester versus Bauer and Miller compromised to some extent. So that was a must win, but also a should win.

And game six and seven, obviously they're on the road. They're still, you know, they have Arrieta versus Tomlin. I don't see how you can say that that's not a Cubs advantage, even though they're on the road, even though Tomlin has pitched very well recently. And even though Arrieta has not pitched all that well over the last few months, I think that's probably still a Cubs advantage. And then in game seven, you're going up against Kluber on short rest for the second time in a row. And I know that aces are compromised when they are going on short rest. On the other hand, he only threw 81 pitches coming off, what, 87 pitches or 86 pitches or something. So he hasn't been worked all that hard in this series for a guy who's going on short rest for the second time. So are they favored in each of the games? Yeah, I guess they are, but only by slim margins. Yeah, I guess they are, but only by slim margins.

He also pitched on short rest in game four of the LCS, and maybe that's canceled out by the fact that the Indians clinched both of those series early and he had extra rest in between. But do you think there's a cumulative effect? Do you think that game four has any impact on just how much gas he has left? I mean, I would think so, but I'm just guessing. I would suppose there is some cumulative effect to doing this and being pushed this hard for a month. So say Tomlin comes out in game six and gives up a few runs early, and it's the fifth inning, and Cleveland is down 4-2. And Arrieta, you know, has looked like he's looked the past couple of months. Hittable, but you know, no slouch. And you've got to decide as Terry Francona, whether to bring in Andrew Miller at that point and whether to treat it like a game

that is in play and you're going to do everything you can to win it. And you'd rather win it today than have to go to a game seven and anything you can do to put this series to bed, you'll do. Or do you play it safe because you can and you know that you have the next day, you know you have Kluber the next day in a matchup that favors you. And if you keep Miller and Allen fresh, I mean, maybe you get an inning out of them each, but if you keep them basically fresh, then there's virtually no way that you have to use anybody other than Kluber, Miller, and Allen in a game seven. And you basically feel like the Stompers did in the championship game where they might be the inferior team at this point in the season, but they're going to have the pitching edge in every single inning of the game.

Right. Well, I think the fact that Miller will have had two days rest because he didn't pitch in game five and then the off day today, I think that Francona would probably be pretty confident that he could get two innings from Miller and still get another two from him the next day. Maybe not three, but I mean, we saw him use him when he didn't have to use him in game four for all those pitches and still be confident that he could bring him back the next day if needed. So I think coming off two off days, rest days for Miller in a row, I'd be comfortable using him for two innings if I had to keep a game close in game six. And maybe this will be the last thing that I'll ask. And if you have anything else you want to talk about the series, you can, but, but Javi Baez was the sort of breakout star of the first half of this post season. And we all fell in love with him and, and everybody saw how good

he is, which he is genuinely very good and not quite as much, not quite to the same degree, but Jose Ramirez has been kind of one of the, the, you know, most fun breakout kind of players of this World Series. And I hardly anybody though, like knows him the way that a lot of people listening to this show know him, but he is way under the radar compared to Javi Baez, and probably remains way under the radar compared to Javi Baez. He's 23. He had a great season this year. He's every bit as defensively flexible. He is like way faster than you would think. He's got more pop than you might think. He's just kind of awesome. So who would you take going forward? Huh? Yeah. So I think Baez is a better defender, I think, probably. Ramirez is

good and is flexible, as you mentioned, but I don't know if he's as good as Baez at any one position. So there's that. But yeah, I mean, Ramirez was just a much, much better hitter this season and just doesn't look nearly as exploitable as Baez does. Like watching Baez against, I won't say good pitching because obviously he hit good pitching earlier in the postseason, but the Indians actually seem to be executing a game plan better against Baez than the Cubs' previous opponents do. And they just are not giving him a strike at this point and they're throwing him lots of breaking balls, and he keeps swinging right into their hands. And obviously, he could get better at that, but it's hard to imagine him getting good at that.

I don't know that he'll ever be a really selective hitter. So, you know, he obviously has the greater hype and prospect pedigree and all of that. But just based on their seasons this year, I don't know. I kind of lean Ramirez. Yeah, I do too. I love Ramirez. I think Ramirez right now is the king of, I don't even know how to phrase this, but there's nobody in baseball who hits a grounder. And when the fielder throws it to first and I get to see where the runner is, I'm more constantly shocked by how

far down the line he is. He's like, he's fast. And he never strikes out and he never made any publications top hundred, which is kind of crazy because he's a 23 year old this year which is the same age as Baez and he was a four-win player which is better than you know basically the same as but a little better than Baez yeah and I don't want to get too carried away I mean he was a very bad hitter in the previous two seasons combined obviously he was very young but he was bad but even when he was bad like he barely struck out any more than he walked in 2015. And he just, he had a very low BABIP and I don't know whether he was unlucky or what, but there were at least indicators that he could get better. And I don't know,

I mean, Baez could, he definitely has better power potential and he could have a better home run season, but I can't imagine him ever matching Ramirez's plate discipline. So, yeah, I'd probably go toward Ramirez too. All right. Anything you want to bring up or do we wait for game six? Yeah, we might as well wait. Okay. All right.

Should we do an email show this week or should we just talk about the World Series on Wednesday? I guess we'll see how much there is to talk about. Yeah, we'll see. All right. So that's it for today. Oh, and by the way, congrats to Shohei Otani and the fighters for winning the Japan series over the weekend. I don't know whether that means he will be posted or not.

Still, probably not. But regardless, nice way for him to end his ridiculous, insane, amazing season. Okay. So you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild. And if you do, you'll be following the footsteps of these five listeners, Greg Burton, David Outen, Sean Cusack, Dan Stapleton, and Nicholas Shaw. Thank you. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectively wild. And you can rate and review and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.

Get the discounted price of $30 on a one-year subscription to the Play Index at baseballreference.com using the coupon code BP. You can buy our book, The Only Rule Is It Has to Work, our wild experiment building a new kind of baseball team. Much more information at theonlyrulesithastowork.com. You can email me and Sam at podcastatbaseballperspectives.com or by messaging us through Patreon, and we will talk to you later this week. I go round and round I go round and round