El Podcast de Marco Antonio Regil - 402.- Día de Muertos: La historia que no te contaron - Arno Burkholder

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Dicen que mientras recordemos a quienes amamos, nunca mueren. Pero, ¿sabías que esa idea también tiene siglos de historia detrás? Arno Burkholder, experto en cultura mexicana y memoria colectiva, nos habla del verdadero origen del Día de Muertos: una mezcla de creencias prehispánicas, españolas, romanas y celtas que transformaron la forma en que entendemos la vida, la muerte y el amor que permanece.Descubre por qué esta tradición mexicana es mucho más que un altar, es una forma de sanar, de reconectar y de celebrar lo que nunca desaparece.Así como aprendemos a honrar el pasado, también podemos construir un futuro con calma.Si sientes que trabajas mucho, pero el dinero no alcanza o no disfrutas el proceso, quiero invitarte a mi Masterclass gratuita: Cómo generar más ingresos con menos estrés.Inscríbete aquí: http://almamatters.com/dinero-audio*Importante: Nuestros invitados son expertos en sus temas y reflejan su conocimiento y su punto de vista, siendo conscientes de que cada una de las opiniones es totalmente personal. La información, datos, comentarios, estadísticas que se presenten en el Podcast de Marco Antonio Regil, son de exclusiva responsabilidad de quienes las emiten y no representan, necesariamente, el pensamiento de Marco Antonio Regil o de la producción del podcast.

The podcast of Mark Antonio Regil is a production of RGL Entertainment and all his rights are reserved. Episode 402. Today we're going to how surgio this

time of Muartos, where surgues this tradition. Really, it was pre-Hispaniac, is to say, the Mexicas, those Aztecas

celebrated the day of Murtos before the people, or more well, the Spaniolers, they were and it

was mixed with other things pre-His-Panics that just used. For that, I'll ask you a applause to

receive a super expert top historian Arnold Burt Holder that's with us a friend

welcome to the program Marko much much for invite me, it's a good to

be here to be the question of the day of the time of the time of course

is a festivismic or is a special or is a a mixla of the two cultures

is a product of mestisage Look, I think we can start saying that the Day of Muartos is totally a tradition Mexican. If we understand that the culture

Mexican is product of a mestizage very old, that has created a culture power that that is agarrand elements of cultures of other parts,

those are processing and those convert totally in nationales. In that our day of Murtos, for the

question, that is totally Mexican. Totally Mexican, but understanding Mexico, as a product

of the union of two cultures. Of two cultures, more all what has been in the last in the two hundred years. It's true

that the Day of Muartos has been not only only the influence a Roman, or the

empire Romano? Totally. Look, the day of Murtos was product of a series of creencers

that were done with the past of the years and where the countries most important

of their moment were influing in that that's that's that's

our day of the people. So we're we're going to get elements pre-Hispanical, elements

Romanos, elements celtas, elements medievals, elements Spanish, actually elements

North-American. And I would say, I'd doubtia that the time time is going to be a

way of the world. Yeah, no, you would be no, you know, and knowing

that absorb us all the world. So in some 10, 20 years that there's a

year of the day of the murtos, I don't me not really to make a tradition, because it's

going to adapt and for example, right, they're in city of Mexico and other places,

the altars, these moderns, aesthetics, that don't they put in colors, that they put all of

black, the day of Murtos, it's like a language. If not it's not it,

it's not a matter, and also, a rule important for in the traditions is that these

are invented. Always is something that's something that's something that's in thinking, this is a lot of decades,

or even years, so, so you're all things. Necessesites always the restapal to say, this

you know, this is my antipasasas and at the time you're being getting things newas,

that for supposed, until before not they're you're you're just just putting pasted and

are those are the things all the same time, and you're you're doing, and you're

going to be going to the past of the time. So, to have the mixture of past,

present, transformation, has that the traditions are so powerosos. Yeah. Well,

let's get us. The Mexicas, the Aztecas, the Mayas, the Laskaltecas, the L'A, those cultures of Mesoamerica,

Mexico, festevahed the day of mortals or what relation had with the Murtos. And what relation they had the

Spanioles with the Mureds? Because you're saying that this day of Muartos is a mix of two cultures. And the more,

you know. It's a smoothie, a, a batid, but what was the difference before that's two cultures?

What was about in the Murtos? And the inframundo and the Mexicas? And what was the difference

of how were the Morkos? Let me ask with the most antivos. The people Mesoamericanus. What

What happens with them? Are you? Are you guys? Some people that are going to the transformation

constant of the naturalness, the semilla that's become in plant, that's come vrote, and it

also are people who have their degree of violence. So, for all these

people, the death is something natural, but the murder also has a component

social very interesting. According to what you have been what you will be to be a

matter. It's a rarro. But not is the same to be being a person normal, to be a for having

been a grerer to a more than a manned to be able to have been near the water.

The destiny that will be a different. Normally, it's consider that the majority

of the Mesoamericanus especially the Mexicans especially the menhikos, after more than

had to other series of proofs. The The proof most important was to a place known a place

where they were to be able to all the people. But it was a time that was going to be to four years.

It was a way to force you need to you need to you come back a perrito very common in this

zone called the Sholitzkwy. Because it was the only that was the power to help me in

the different problems that had to pass. There had to pass a rio, for example,

of water caudalosas, where to nadar where you to nathes. If you get to nath,

if the al-s-natt and he was to go-h to do. But if the soul squintle

at a little, then you just gothous to the perrito, and the person,

or what that was, you know, to be to do get a then you know,

they were, they were and they were to they were in the same, and they were to the

then you were, you were there was, there a zone deserty with a

tremendous, that of a sudden started pieces of obsidian that's a black very common in Mexico,

that is afilada. And resulta that the pedra of obsidian he was cutting the carne to the spirit.

Also, four years of the year, imagineate, nothing more that thing, to get to

what you want to find to the inframund. A type called Migtlantecutli

that I suppose to have been part because of that so it was not even

to get with Miklantecutli and then after that it's supposed to some point in some of the thing that's that's

and it's and simply it's just after four years of having done that's that's a

time. For the other people to consider four years of that after the final to disappear?

No, that's that's a chister. And the chister was to start to start

to say, yes, four years you've to make a don't Meklantecutli and

they're a opportunity one once a year to regressar to the

world of those people. For to see what he has passed to your parents,

how they go, if you from the inframund you can help you can

do you and then then so that is this idea of as

like in the natural there always there is that it also

that also the spirit of the person one a

year the opportunity to get a beautiful. because it's reconnecting.

It's a way of not pervert to your services. Exactly. Those I can't see one every a year. They're a visitar me.

They're the food that they like. I can't comevibir. I can't remember them. And as the

movie the movie of Coco the movie, the movie, while they can't do you. They're living in some way.

Yes. For the Mexicans especially, that are the ultimate, the final. The record of the mortals

is fundamental and for so they're creating a series of Fiestas for the

Murtos. Because, not just we're not we're going to we're not. We're not we're levels in

the mortals. We're not the people. To get a those people who did they have been in their fiesta.

We're not many more more than us also. They're a lot of a lot of our time.

And we're we're going to do different ways. Inc. Even the animals, not,

before the two of two of some days was the day of the other those

those, Fifate that the animals, I'm going to confess to something, but I really actually, I'm sure, I'm sure, that I'm celebrating to my perrits that you're and that's going. And that's

something that's going to be because it's new. Because it's new. Now, it's been a common to say that the 27th of October has to be the day

to record to our mascots, that me can't the idea. But the truth is that if you record about 10, 20 years,

that's not not a question. No, no existed. What happened there? Well, it was that

we've been in a world where a lot of people we have our most we need to our mascots.

The day that we're going, it's not you're going, but how you're not you're not so much they're

part of our family. Exactly. The new mascots are the plants. Yes, and perri-

and cat-y- are our family. You have said, per-ri-rich- Perriss. They're fundamental

for you. Well, it's clear that I'm sure that I'm a lot of a few. Well,

then to be, to understand it. Before the years, there was a story, if there was a relation

of the Mexicas, of the other people pre-His-I and there a relation special with

the murder. Yes. Because what distinguishes this festeho or this tradition is that we're

we're not we're not we're not that we're not we're not we not we're more we

we're not of her, we'll let us get colors, we put them music, we do we do talk about

with her, we'll say that we don't get to we're thinking we're taking me over. But in other other places,

for example, in China, I think they want to be the movie a show, for example.

Yes, what the is that for the people Chinese, the murder has other

significate, but they are also very done of the record and the cult of the

pastasas. Maybe what they they're they're that they they're that

We're we're used to the Mexicans. But, but fichate that there are other people who also have been

to beuncular the fiesta and the thing, with a way, that's, this, the truth, but

the two things always were all all the people, and it was the people, the people,

where if we do we do we're we're doing a offending to the people, we're

we're the people, like, the the Romans. The Romanos,

the they were they were The most. The Romans also also are offrendas fundamentally

of the meat, meal, pan, some of a fruit, wine, especially what

he would like to the Muerto. But, with that also, it had to be music,

also had to be a ball. The two things always have been puted in all

the people. The difference is that the tradition Mexican of Murtos, other

that join elements of many cultures, is a fiesta tremendously luminous

let's that way. It's a place where the part of the relajo Mexican is much more present.

So, Rome, obviously the Imperio Romano dominable what today is the peninsula, well, Spain, the

peninsula, the country, and obviously, of Rome and influence to what now is Spain, and the

economy is to what now the day of the day of the day of not they're, not they're, not they're

not connection with the question with a moment. that from from the August where

where they are these two fiestas and where there's there's there's a game

very curious to a little a little where up up a figure and there

was to do a kind of to do that figure and to get that figure and

to goh there other type of diversions music also can't and there

yeah there there there something and the is the Feature

of July to August, September. In the case of the Romanos, they were

at the first of year. Normally in February, was the year at the feces in

that they were the fact that the day of the death of the day of the

time and it also has much to be with the Catholicism. Yeah, then

there is the other side of the question. Before the the

years, the Americans, how they they were they were a Fiesta of the Day of Mewortos or what is what

comes of Spain, that's what we mesquos, and the pre-Hispanical? More than Spain, I'd say that the tradition Catholic, that influence in Spain, that influe in France, that influe in Germany and in other places.

Resulta that, combining this this festival of the paternalia of the Romanos, the Church Catholic started a series of traditions that took totally of the

culture Roman. More or for the year 500 the the church a Catholic create a

a, a, a, the day of all the santo which is basically

the day of those people that people who were Christianas. From

the the great saints to the people of the community and then

they're they're to make they're specifically to the mortals.

No, they're like not they're not they're not they're because they're

for having been to Catholicism. But that including to almost a world. Almost

everyone had to be Catholic. So, it's a first in May. But it

resulta that for a series of conveniences that we we're not we're decided they're

to be the first the first of November. And there surge this festival

of all the Santos. What has this this a Fiesta that

that's like to have a never, and it's a fiesta where it has a verbena,

where there there's a and where they're going to make sure and games for the people.

Okay. They're to get little panes, peaches little, little,

little gosinas, the children can have used and, and, and, also,

you know, that the iglesias, you know, a mess where they're

on the relicions of these sands. Normally are their us. Cranios, femur, et cetera.

If you have your side a morbosos, I'm going to the carita. I'm going to get in the calaver

of the sugar. Well, the manita of Sanguda to do go to get a but there

and there the first of the first of a festival in the to get to to all

Europe. And then in all Europe it was a custom in Spain fundamentally

also, also to expose the reliques of the santo started to create

the the dulces of the time. They started were

that were they were they're they're that are so they're so they're

still coming in Spain the Masapan is an Arab

totally and it that influence to other people. So, then they're

to start these these games, this form to record to the dead, and these and these

and they're going to be important for the culture Mexican. Of course, the pan

of the kind of our richness, is Arab, is Spanish, is pre-Hispani or so,

for that the cuisine Mexican is so delicious because has all the world, even of

Asia, of China, et cetera. The the same happens in the day of the

day of the people. I'm so they're the people who they're in the people who

they're going to get to make sure there's a there's a relation with the more. Formalment

the Catholicism to get to Mexico in 24. In that fecha there's 12 first

Franciscanus with the metta specific of evangelisa to do I'll because

there were before there was a there they were to come to

they were only 24 came to evangelize. And then the first is good and how we do we

do. Because they're in other language, they're different, are absolutely different. There's a

process to evangelize to all the people of the people. In that process, the first

what is to say, and the question that the fact of the Mexicans that they were a

thing that the vision Catholic, classical, the life and the history is totally

lineal. It's one and it's a all. It's a thing. And with your

origin, when God so you did you know, everything to do you do you know to do you

your life and in some moment when it occurs the resurrection, the judicial,

but as just, it's one and that's one more. And for the Mexica there

something like in the Hinduism the reincarnation. Not exactly reencarnation, but this

idea of the universe at final is divided in three grand plan. The plan

celestial of the gods is the earth for the human, the inframund for all those these spirits

and always there's a communication. Oh, so no regress to the earth, but is alive in

the infamund totally. Of that you can you can't get to get to your people.

Exactly. So, you can you get back. For the Catholics, no, there's no.

What is you do, is a person Viva is record to all those who are

you're going to you're going to you're going to you're going to it's a but there's a mixla and the Catholicism

cede because you're saying they're going to visitarting exactly just that's that's a

regressan you know you know you know because it's obviously because it's in contra of the dogma

exactly but they're they're okay back halamus yeah after after much

time All right, all the first first festejos of all the Sto, in New Spain, are approximately

of 1,5. So, so, they're done 11 years for that more or less consolidar.

And yeah from that there are religious Spanish, that just are just are just they're

saying, to the let us just a first we're because these Mexica and his

descendants are two. Because, because they're putting this, maize, why they're

putting this baby a rare called Pulke, why are you think they're with some those people

that were doing? You're simply that they're to make to make things with the elements

pre-His but they're they're not a visitar and that is that is going in contra

the dogma Catholic. Exactly. But the Church Catholic in the in the

process to expand for the world always does it always they adaptate

know I mean, I'll get the little the abhorstic and say, well, let them it's,

let them it's a lot of you know, let them to go, and we're not a New Orleans, that's all the

thing of the magic and the, how's the, the, of the, the, of the, the,

of the, and there's, and there, and there's, you know, there's, you know, you're,

you're going to establishes, because he's something did something was, he's, well,

no, we're we're able, we're we're we're has Conscience

that, to be, the things should be the other way. The dogma says this.

But I'm have to adapt to the circumstances locales. So, what I do is record

those. The things have to be so but in reality are not a way.

It's like you. In what we can we can't establishes the dogma. Never

no. Simply everything all go and you do you more more

in the the church that is the thing adapt to adaptable to the creencers

locales. It's all you're in the thing you do you do you know, but adapt we think you're

to prays to the Jesus and the people, to the Jesus Christ, God, God,

the other. Or, of the sacrifice human, that's just it's it's about.

But I can't understand that you have this fiesta, more than this

relation with the rest of the dead, because at final we had we were in Europe.

But that So it's a future. It's a a fiesta to your mortito

that's a true. Totally. Now, there's also element that's very important

that's that's a element of the Samain. The Samain is another intent

to create or evangelizing a territory that he costed much a work to the church

the church the north and the area north of Europe. A zone

a series of a series of a like the Celts. The Celts. Pueblos, guerreroes,

people accustomed to have multiple dioces, and people to who were to begin to evangelize. Are the Vikings?

No, are the other side? But it's that are people who also that were the

people who were to start the time of the and also where they started

that the world was divided. They were a division between the

zone was the life and the zone of the dark that was

the world, the they were the one of the 31 of October

1 November, the the sercania between the zone

the area and the area that a one that

there was there were so red and that

and that and that could cross to cross

the world exactly exactly because these Celta, they said that only

there was a form of protecter's of the people of the black,

disfrasar as they were they like they obviously were really they were really

they were they were they were to be menos and demons and them and

they were to trap your alma and you going to get your

entire the only the only alternative was disfras you

to to confunders. There's the Halloween? Exactly. That at the principle, not a calabaza, that's all right, but some enormous nabos,

to those that also that were eyes, boxes, normally were usually, they'd beckyable to put them to a bell, and

that they'd also a lot of terror, but to terrorize to those series of the obscurida. Resulta that the

the church the church, and the first is, well, this is, well, this

may be able to the first of the first of all the other people, then we're going to the first of

the first of November. So, all this was just going and as this tradition termed

in Halloween, it's a first in the United, with the Navos, and for there,

of 1619 approximately, they're they're to crosser the ocean these English is

to get to America and what they've their tradition of all the sands.

And there started the Halloween. So, that no is a casuality that the

Halloween and the day of people are not. Absolutely. The origin is mixed.

All this all this is made a moment in the that all these festivals

confluen temporarily finales of year October, November. As I was I was

I was these first were like in feches different that if February,

that's July, that's May, but at final all the final, all of so it's to start,

and it's moment, October, November, that has been made that's in the

people who have those those traditions, in the fech of Murtos, say,

Halloween, sea, all of the Sands, it's specifically of Murtos, 3,

of October, 1, of November. It's like the part most important. You've

done that to try to generate more ingress, only is causing more stress and

agotamient? Travahs and you work and hours extra, but it never is sufficient. And your

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get our maximum potential without our zombies of the now. Now, the bruchas,

because we see that the day of Muartos related with the Halloween that has in common,

in what moment are the Burrushes? Because the Halloween is like the the day of the

Bruchas. that's that's not has to the Celtas the of the

other the chelts also they're people have been important and they're

all these people are people are so medics

incipient that know derbolaria that are that are

figures with an authority moral in those people

and that they have this capacity they they

connect the world that we know with the other reality, reality of the gods,

reality of the creatures, and the reality of the mortals, all of them are all the cultures. The women were being volvyingosel the most

important. For very different reasons, but at final the Brucha had much more more than the Brucho,

although the Brucho always always used. So, then in this Fiesta of Samayen that are present

the brujing, the people recurre to them for all the but they're not malas in that time. Look,

I think the the perception of good or malo depends much of the circumstance. For the churchlesia

Catholic, they're going to be badas. And for the simple reason of that they're not to do that

a God that is satanical when they are adorando to God and the or simply

because they are from the dogma. Also because they're they're to come

to the they're to the naturalness, and they're there Because not are

on the church, etc. Or because they're rebels, because they're because they're they're not

incomodas women were incomodas now for those people who opinable these Celts

we'd let them the other the Catholicism well well you think they they're

they said if the if the if the bruja those curable then that's

well that's the bruce you know your partes well that the bruce is good. But if this

me is doing a conjure, and if this is this is not destroying my

and if this is it's not that's not that we're going to let's that we're

the thing with the woman, what I do, what I'm what I'm a key

a key in the world, because it's a good, it's the life, but not more

is the transcursu and you there's a relationship with these other plans of the reality

that for these cultures were fundamental. But they're power. So, so so so the

church and if the church had all the thing you do you know, you're going to be you

see if you can't well. Yeah. And so so there are the brucas

with the maligno. So that is the church for the Catholicism, clear

that the people are a mixla, with the Halloween and all. Because, because, also, the church is a lot of

a lot of that you know that you know that you know a zone, if I'm saying, if I'm the zone the sun of the light, no

you know, you're a Catholic, I'm going to do all the life, the only that you're to be able to

these fiestas. Go, to get to that you're getting to that you're doing, that's you're going to

do you're doing. But no, but not it's a but it's it's a matter of that the

United is a a country is a a country Christian very fundamentalist there's

where just it's where it's more the thing of the terror and the but

also there what you are saying two things one one of the one of the versions

canonical of the poplament of the area to the United is the group

of the people of the people who want to practice liberally their

religion not the in Europe. For example, for you do that they're in

their promise. They're in a version modern of the Israelites. Because they're

their desert in the ocean to get to get to a lot of things. And to have a

freedom of cult. But then then, but what? But what? What? In reality

this story, you're saying that in those barcos, with those Puritanos,

with those reverendos there went a lot of people that, that, that,

that, also, I, believe in the brujeria, that,

also, they were their customries of Samayen yeah, and that's mixed with

and that's and that's they're in, but also there's other point. Piance that when

all those these get in America, the veras not they don't not, no,

there's absolutely nothing, the places not the not is, not it's, it's,

it's, there were a place there were a place, there were people, there,

people, there There was food. There's always there's ways to get a way of the

way to make a lot of the way there. There's no there. There's to get to get a people.

There's to get to get to get to have a relation with these indigenous. And to those colonos

Englishes in America, to those do they're that are really are a picture to be really

a lot. It's pass to those people are attacked for the indigenous.

It's It's a lot that the colonos they're playing between them and then the winter

they're in the end up and much they're going cannibales. They're that these communities

of a repurpose, then they're and they're going to other barcos from the communities to

look to and where are they're not they're not. Or they're or they're going to go to

know, or they're they're coming to them. So, imagineate. you have a tradition of horror. Of terror and horror

and then that's alliment the Halloween. Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but,

you know, they're going to do you're really religious and puritanos and other and they were to have to

have to be to do that they were to do that so, although they're the day of Murtes

and the Halloween have been like a common of origin, they're going for things

they're going to come completely different. Yes, because at final,

that I think that also that also the geography of the zone. At the final, as I said, this zone is in the center of

Mexico, geographically, the fact, is that it's very benignate. Temperature, water, food, etc. There's no.

And there civilizations. There no. All yeah, all over to start. So, so is

tremendously difficult. And that is a part of that has a question that the tradition that

you said, of the series of the light, you're of the world, all final

all, all, all you get to do you do that's that you do.

So, so Halloween is a really a bit of a thing a lot of

much more more of the world of the United with the assassino seriales

and all the things and the things that Halloween so then

Halloween's this Wednesday it is turn the film

to incarnate the and it's and it's going for

a Halloween more Hollywood more dark Dator Also,

I'm going to with all what Mexico is living and with his levels of violence, in our

future of the death not a feach strictly violent. No. Halloween is of terror

but and Mexico nothing to be. No, no, has no that's no, that's not

to attack the murders. Exactly. Here the people are your people. So,

are your family that you do you know and that we're we're

we're In the United, the Halloween is fear to the murder. There's a lot of so, are you know? So, are, so, are, so, are two things yeah very different.

And it has passed many times in, many Halloween in the United, how the delitos are the delitos, it's a lot more

common the assassinations, it's much more common the brogheria in this time, things that in Mexico,

no, that's another thing, completely different. Now, the day of the

day of Murt, then then it's Yeah, it's all right we're talking of the part modern of the

time of the Mariton, that's the Katrina and the chalabarita and the Sempasuchis is of,

if it's pre-Hispani obviously, but not necessarily were part of the ritual original. The flowers

of Sempasuchil. What you have the Sempasuchil is that's a flower that's in this epoca So,

it's of totoe that it's of that makes to make sure with this festival, but in

reality the Sempasuchil is It will be really important until the century. Ooh, super

recent. Super recent. Put le 100 years. It's when de veras the Sempasuchil has your

place in these altars of mortals. And it's also in the religion Catholic? Or is the government?

This is more interesting. We're going to get a lot but I think to one of a bit. Right.

We're going to get them. We're going the years 30 in Mexico, especially the government of Lazzar

Cardenas, a government that impuls much the nationalism after the Revolution

Mexican. Nationalize the petroleum, create what is now Pemex. For example. And one of the of the

feasts that is the Fieste of Muartus. It will transformer in the sense of we're going the element

religious. We're doing on the side the influence of the church Catholic. We're

to insisting in that the fiesta always has been the same the time

pre-Hispani and we we're getting the elements. So, so it's important the Sempasuchil. It has much

major peso the paper picado that is tremendously common for these feches. And especially this idea like the fiesta always has

been the fiesta never has changed and the fiesta is totally indigena. Some ideas that impulsed the nationalism

cardinista that it was made with that. But it was like separate to Spain, separate from

the religion Catholic to do a Fiesta National. Yes. Especially separately

separacy the Eglisa Catholic. Because still still is close the Gristera,

that was from the 926 to 1929, a entrentment between Catholic

and the government Mexicano. Some not all not all, but if some of

Masons. Benito Juarez is the president Benito Juarez is the church

the church the church with the law with the law important in the

form how we celebrate the Fiesta of the Morts. Ah, yeah? Because what has to be Benito Juarez with the

first of In 1859, let me let me back. The President Benito Juarez

expede a series of decretos that are known as the laws of reform. They are

importantism for this country because it modernized. For the laws of reformer

we have matrimonio civil, we have registro civil and we have cement

civil. Before, it was of the church. Totally. Especially the thing that

today we know we not. Especially, the age media. In the

case Mexican, from the big reynat and to 1859, all the church

had a own cemetery. Because the dogma Catholic says, in

some moment, Christ will come the the judicial final and all the

mortals resuscited for being so you can't enterer in any way you know

you know you have you know you know and if you have the sufficient money

you're going you're going to be the most circle so so in all the

churches there there tumbas no more that there a great problem

to have a a lot of cadabers, you can imagine the risk of the diseases that

can provoke. So, the laws of Reforma of Juarez, and other things,

establishes that a part of the 1859 is it is a prohibit that a

church has a cemetery. It has been a parted. And, better

even, if these cemeteries can be out out of the city. In

that then, for those that we're doing. The city of Mexico was much

much more small and was a place called the Alameda that is the first park

that's the place in America Latin. There was that there was there now.

There's the center of the city of the city of Mexico. A little

a little more there was the first panteon as

as far as a Santa Paula that that existed

until 1875, approximately. And then then was a second panteon importantism called San Fernando, that actually is a museum. Still, there's San Fernando. Well,

what has to be, Juarez? It has to be that before of Juarez, every and 2 of November, the churches

were tiborra of people that were to see to their mortites, that you had given food,

that they were they were they were were tues for the mortitit, that the children and then

after the 1859 all of that people went to the cemetery they abandoned the

people and then then you also you became common that the people will be

to make the tomb put the food that he was put leal the

food that the the the festival and the so that was

for benito huaries and the things the relaxas than a a church. You can

you can't you can't make, and put more you're doing, and put a music, and, you know, pegados to the tomb

of the morto what's what's the thing. The fact it's existia always. There's always

not more than the church now it was in the cemetery out of the city. Okay. So the flower of Sempasuchil

is that is Otoll, that is pre-Hispaniac coincide with the feches and then it's a start to

get to get to until a 100 years. As far the floor of Noche-N-N-N-Vid that is the

temporary and that's the time. Let me see that's the little detail. The flower

of Noche good for the Meshica's if it was a flower of the

winter obviously not were a night the Mexicas not

know that was a was a color and that had to be

also with the transformation and the past of the years back

to make Mexico really it actually back after the

century converted in the flower of Nochebuna. The flower of Naviata.

The flower of that's so it's so it's point set, because it's a point set, and is the

Embachor the American in Mexico, Joel Roberts Pointset. That's the other things, he was a botanica,

he's got with this flower so rare that at final of year, his soh their soles and he says,

oh, me la I'm gonna this thing is this thing is the car to do this everyone to do it

the property, because it's a point of a point. Exactly. No, but it's a

flower that's a word totally mesoamerican. Mesoamerican. So, so, so,

again, to do you know, the pan of Merto is completely Spanish. That's not pre-Spanic

or so. The pan of the is Mexican in the sense of it's a mix of

different cultures. But not says that there was that there is that there's in

Spain and sometimes. There pan and dulces, not just in Spain, but in other countries,

especially in Italy, but it's really to get to Mexico and starts to have a particular.

The first of them, there's there's different types of Pando Morto in Mexico. Not all

are like as how we come in the center. Okay. There are panes

with corteza more dark, there are panes that not are covered of sugar,

I, there are many some some many, there are different

pan of Murt. Yeah. What we know we Murto, let me know what canonic, is totally

of the center of Mexico and always is redondo, always is great, always is of corteza

color coffee, always is covered of sugar, and it's always has some four,

that represent them those the muscles, and the part central that represent the craneo. During

much time, he was used that the pan of the PAN of Merto had to be a

great. Because, because it's not just a pan that you come you're a pan that you're first,

first you put in the offender, because, the offender normally only only only only would

do you, or the food you were to doer a day, then you then you're then you

partied with your people, for that had to be great. Yeah. Still to the

years 80, it was very common in the casas Mexicanas that in

those Fechase, at the hour of the pan of Mewrotho, he started the rebtinga for the cranium. All the

whole of course that's the same to be more rich. It's the cranio. That's the cranium.

That's the person. But there came another change in the tradition. More or less, I

think, I think, I think, it's a model, the pan chiquito, the pan

individual, that now is very common in all the sides. Yes. Of course,

now, you know, you know, not is that not it's a common, but it's much more more more

more than you get a little problem. It's a custom. But it's very new. It's totally new.

A little never it disappearcing. A lo more in 100 years, they're used more to

pan chiquito that every can be then you can be able in Europe, in Spain, you,

yeah, it were they were so , for , He gets to what now is Mexico

and here's the craneo, the wesito, it's adapt, and it's to get a- new-tock-Mexican. Yes, for example, as I said I before, there were

these things called the Wesos of Sandoos. Or, also it's known as the alfenniques. Duleses of masapan,

re-enos of a pasta that represent they're they're in Spain, are very common. Then,

they're in Mexico, the masapan as a little that's the little

and what it was a mass a mass of sugar that's it's moldeer

and that it's it's calaveritas the clavaritas the sugar they're from

they're they're they're their origin is the the god

what was it changed the ingredient and changed

the form of the and you put colors

and the Decoration. What we put it actually. Because that's

tremendously Mexican. We're not quite the colors. This is the colors if it's

pre-Hispanico? Or also it's a product of the mix? The Mexicans are in a

lot of because we don't so much because that we're that's that's

that we're in the one in the we're in that we we're just we're in the

partottott unfortunately the area where you you're a lot that you 12 hours

diaries during all the year. So, so that it's it's

so it can't that you know, even the time pre-Hispaniac, every a reference

with a color. And so that's always us used a polo luminous.

Right, well, there, pass on the years, and, you know,

you can you can't be in a un- a calendar but the calendar of

technically was painted. And it was impressive, and it was, it's

to be with this use that we have to all the all that is excessive

both in the color, as a in the music, we like the excess. The stimul.

The only the Mexicans? Yes, totally. So, when surges the

colors neon, to the Mexican, it's perfect. It's perfect. Or

to have these calaveras with these colors is not exactly pre-His

but is totally Mexican because so it is a so it is

all the world. Now, the catrinas They're For those that are the people We're seeing, those who are

You know, you know, you know, they're a catrina, it's very famous, is this, this iskeleto vestido,

vestido of, like a signor elegant, with a sombrero, no? This catrina is very recent,

because they have converted, the catrins, the catrina, they've been in symbol of the day of Murtos.

And, fickate, that's the thing more, no it was, no, it was, no,

it was, it, no, it was, no At the finales of the 19

in Mexico vivied a grabator and painter popular very famous that's called Jose

Guadlupe Posado he he was he was for some some

revistas and especially ojas volants one one one a one where

was where he had a grabado and was a

poemita and they vendian in the cases. Much of of those ojas,

for example, they were to be with a unison about a lot of about

his own time. He's a lot of the time of this single to do a record to

a grabado that was a with a tendency between the classes popular.

First, the idea of the calaver not more like the murder,

but the I remember that time, I'm going to do you go to and that

also, I'm very a much of a expression that was a little an insult, garbancero. Garbancero

were these people of origin indigena that furs that were like if were in whether they're

like they're like they're so faring So, then to Jose Oluo Posada

so it to create a thing that called the calaver garbancera. Uh-huh.

A calaver that's that's that's burlating of those that

are different to be different to come in reality because they're elegant exactly

the sombrero the vestido the yeah no more that the vestido actually

the calaver garbancera is only the craneo and the

the sombrero making ushending a burl to all of that you want

you want to you want to and he you're and the first

the first so total burl. Passan 20, 30 years and he gets

one of the painters most people of the history of Mexico, Diego Rivera, that has

a mural precious, that's the dream of a time, the night in

this park of the I was he was a place where he a

different characters of the society Mexican that still today

today we still her she cantinflas, others more, and that's the

is the is the he's the he's not I'm going to get to the craneo we're

going to a body so he then he he's a little a vesty put a

a stola and that's that's that's that's all that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that catrina because because

before a the agent rich a catrine that's that's a

catrina My, my abuela, me I said, Ponte bien Catrine. Exactly. We have seen, we have to put

those catrines. There's elegant. Elegant, exactly. So, Rivera, so, it's a idea

to, at final, this is a burl, the burl of the people of money. But, all having it

converted in the catrina, all have put a couple, and, and, and also,

Rivera, he was one of the great impulsors of that version of the years

30 of the day of the the two things they're just and what was simply

a symbol of a critical social it's just in a symbol of the day of the person's like that

the first of the catrine, the catrina also with a caper, exactly so very elegant and so yeah

and so so it's and so actually actually actually think that this is a a burl

social yeah no it's, yeah no it's yeah no it's like it's like like a

symbol of the day of and for so we we're we put on

Catrines or Catrinas and then then you get to start all the

art of the makellation the colors is a new a new

lienso that also as much more related with the

woman for for the most for almost 20 years

approximately always always has to remit to remiters

to the and the women that are the paint

the very very beautiful. And that also has to do this form of

the murder. And it's a work of art in the face. If a woman

in this time of a year is a car like a car like aubbera,

that's a thing that's horrible. Not that. It's a thing. Frida Kahlo. You know, with a lot of chongos, this,

listones in the pillow. That's no had nothing to be. But, but for our time, it's it's a beautiful.

And you know, the lemma is Apprendamos both. Thank you. Thanks for for accompany me

during those 40 years of career. We're celebrating together. Now,

when I was a little in the Mexico of the 70, I grew part of

here in Mexico and parted in the frontera Tijuana with San Diego. And I remember that in that

Eiffoes no it was what it's now. It's been getting. There was a feeling that Halloween

we're going to and what you see you as in the city of Mexico, it was more being Halloween. And like

the day of the people are doing in populations small the people of the people of

all this role, but so like the people of class media or to be

up to be a day of the day of if if you didn't

the not, no, no, I see. So, today see.

What was what was what was? Because he's about a little adormecing

and when came the resurgiment that now is a world. Look, I think that

that's after the second war world, when Mexico is a more

to get more to the United, political, economic, social, and especially culturally

and if some one the European was the referent, the ideal for the Mexican

is after the second war world that the referent is the North American is when when they're in these

grand avenues in serious, when we're the grand centers commercial when we we're used to the hotkecks

hot dogs Coca-Cola, etc. There's so. So, so much since the years 60,

little a little the Halloween started to be common. Because, because also

also, because it's also, it's a And as well you are contemporaneous, to me too you're in the moment in the

in the time in the other but they were in places specific. I remember the the offrenda in his museum in the Guaselanahuacali.

I remember that me get them my parents. Or in Sochimilko or in some places. But, let's quote

a case personal in my house when I was a new, that never existed. The me too.

But if it existed that me of a new me disfrasar I

remember I've seen times different in the moment very common

where there were disfrases of Halloween for that

that that was that that was what what was what was

that you say for the years 60 70 and maybe 80

maybe the Halloween it started and what I

think were years was that were a enormous a

problem a cultural. Exactly. Where is that the Halloween that's

represented a like a figure with a head of calabaza is a manned

a figure with a figure with form of a cranium. If you want to see a symbolical but

but it's that some the day of the day of Murtos how it?

I'm the impression that was in the moment I'm going to an hypothesis

the years are in those in this country at the same time, the world more, you're at the

free of commerce you. You start to buy a lot of products extraangers. But also it's

something like an intent to recobrar a version very idealized of the past indigena.

Because also are the years in those that they get to the year to

March to Toteuakam vestido of black with a sinta roja to get

to get a energy to get a that's a pre-Hispani- that is a group that's

mysticas that are in more of the 60 but that after the 90

and the model of the lot of the tithas tithes with the other

I think in Regina of Antonio Velasco Pina all. All this

all this all the influence of the gurus of the India that

States United and then it's a getting the influence to Mexico. This is a

hippy spiritual. Yes, but I'm talking about about a hippie spiritual 30 years

after, where there's a element fundamental, a thing that's called Toltequidad. Uh,

that is create a image very idealized of the pasto indigena that no has to be

really with what it was really so it is just in that moment in the day of

Mordo but now, in the 60? No, no, no,

yeah, put it for the 90. At the 90. In the 90 would be really this revival.

It's a recent. Totally. As a like I said before, I said, the invention

of the tradition is fundamental. That's to think, well, this has existed always. No,

no, it's true. This has really really little. But a necessity to connectar,

even a way a mythic with the past you get to record these fests,

although you're adding elements that not are and it's not really. I mean I

adore this year. Yeah, the time of the time of the time of the world of I don't know that

in Australia, in Japan, in the United, and it's a lot of it's like our Navi-Nabit is like it's being

in that. Volvying what we said we're before we do things of Halloween where in

a corner you're a little you're to have to start to be there's a

Lucha. The two things were. The two things. They're going to start and they're going to

do you know. Passed to the end up frontamiento is that the real American is the calaverita. How's it the time?

The two things are going to convivir. Oh, yeah, I don't know. As I said when you said that in the

first, second, the world, the Mexican, I imagine that Guatemala, the Salvador also,

they're going to they're going to have a Europe as a referent to the admiration for the Gavarvara

Garvancera to try to be a European not is a lot. Trattas to be to see to be a

United and be like the American movies, all the admiration for the United is the

world. Television. The television and the marketing, the radio, the music, no,

the rock and roll and the and what I know but the United also also

also also also in the world. And it's to be, it's the United that we're not

the Hitler and Germany and the kamikaze's, the Japanese. Passed to be that's a guy that abuser, to

the country that is corruptor and that propiti the production in the countries of third world with to exploit them

and now now, right now, the country the country cruel that is presiding to the Latinos

and that's working as far stapo, no? So, so, a little to the United has

been a bit more more than the world, and he's a very part of the world, especially when

when they're certain people like the president's, like the relaciment of the day of Murtos and

that separation of Halloween comes like a consequence of, oh, yeah, I don't want to admire

to the gringos, I don't want to do you, I want to rescat what is my

coincide or no? I'd I'd say no, because the Fiesta of Muartos that we have in 2025

has many many elements that come from the culture North American. Our Fiesta of Murtas. The 2025,

what we think we think we today we do that we have an influence of, it's an

example. In this this time of Murtos in the city of Mexico,

there are at the three grand desfiles in the Paceo of the Reformation. And one

of them is specifically a disfile of zombies. That's that the

people get a disfrasated of zombie How do you? There's that. So, how?

What on? What's what? What's going? Ah, well, it's going to the

zombies and those incorporate to the fiesta. And the people see,

disfrasate and come to come to come to and come to and the

next the next there's a one there's a because

also also we Oh, and the next a second the end of the

official, that I don't idea of there's a but I'm sure that will be being avertido and be

being done of that. What do you do you say? Independent the of the situation that

I'm my impression that the culture North American still being being powerful.

There's the exit of cocoa. But not we don't we don't seem a culture that

adopt the elements that come in those countries. those incorporate us and those we're going to

we're we're trying we're so we're so zombies that's that's the year

in the pasto of reformer not are the zombie the George A. Romero of the

year is a non. That's a bigelow with the video with the movies

with the cult of the zombies but it's totally Mexicanized and not he's

no with the we're going to put sombrero of charro, colors.

I don't extra. I'm not. Something that's that's the famous desfile of

D. D. Murtos comes from the film. Oh, because that's

fundamental. Fulgating. How they're going regress fiestas to be the form

in the way that they're that so strange. Yeah from the virinato

exists a thing called verbena of all the santa. It was a

fiesta, where the people were disfrasable and where there music, where there food, where there

were little, where there other than the verbena as disappeared. The verbena, it was a

altar, pass on the years, the Halloween, etc. And as well, you know, in the year

2015, they're in this movie Spector of James Bond, and resulta that he

I'm incant to the government in that in that's in that's the general that's the

general to the general of the city of Mexico, he's the we're in the first of the desfile

to do you? The desfile no existia? They had existed a because that's the most curious.

No, there's a contact direct to between that verbena that existed and the

defile of now. But it's like if there was a record in the sub-consient

that provoked that the people, say, oh, and it's that's

so good. And it's very good. Oh, for supposed. That's the good.

Look, I'm a idea. The only Mexico. And then it was, we, we have

and we're a lot of this, this was not the same time of the time of

Muartos and the other thing more important. Mexico Vio Koko and could be quite

said, that's a gringada. How it's not that thing? It's

is violating totally in our Fiesta of Mordus no, no, no,

he said, yeah, if they did, if they were to do. If you were a music

that if is a music that's I don't I identify with I don't I don't know so it's

so it's so nobody they were because after they did you did you did you

know, and you see there the person of Peter Infanti Jorge Negrette

in the in the pap absent and he Salel Salel the

the motherita the mom Cocoe that was a Missua that was

a a, a, a, that the Colombian, that the Colombian were to be

this is Colombia, this is a co-s and they're not, and we're going, and like, the

Mexican no, he said, yeah, that's, that's a that's right, that's all, that's all,

now, what do you that's, also, also, also, it's, in this

culture North American, the influence Mexican has permeated that, that are able to

do a a movie that not is, I'm going to a movie very old a little bit of a little bit of

not a pancho pistols no, that's that I'm that I'm really that or Spidey

Gonzalez. No, this is other thing. To this I think to this is a lot of people in Losajona

seeing a mehick with your point of superior. With the perspective of that time

so they're like a country folkloric so so like and Maracas and Maracas.

And so Yes, we're putting maracas. Yes, it's that's not Mexican, those maracas. But, well, and now is the immense, especially in California, the major part of the populations of origin is Hispanic.

Are you? Exactly. And the children of all of the immigrants that are working in Hollywood. Because, of course, who is working in Hollywood, who are doing guillons? Well, yeah are the kids

of the immigrants that are the people who were, and those restaurants, so they've been, just were, after the, after they were to get, were to school,

they were, they were, They're in English like a first language but are the origin Mexican, Guatemalteco Salvadorino

Colombian, etc. But principally and it And it's not said that's not quite that's important

that's the that's the thing that are the third so are the so are the people who's I'm living

I'm I'm a whitemaltecco but I'm here to be to be so

the second the second he's more gringo because see the discrimination to the

papas and say no no p' you no I don't no no

no look the music groupera. I'm American. And the third, who is the nests, is the nighal, my abuel, my abuel, was my abel,

was a Mexican. I mean, I've got a much of them. I have a friend that's he, was born in Texas and they're taking

their nationality Mexican. They're trying to feel super Mexicans. And those are those who are doing

the gions and the movies and the music. And there is a rule that says,

fathers and children, they'll never nieets, always they'll be a

great. The third generation of immigrants want to Mama Coco. If they let's

make to find out and they also it and it's also, it's a little

to be because not are Mexican exactly, but not they're not they

don't they're those different elements of one or they don't

pass in all the cultures so it's like the Judios of third,

a fourth, fifth, second, generation, because they're not here these Mexicans,

but they're going to Israel, or the Italiansians that are in the United or

in other other other place. I mean, it's, it's, a general, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, it's, you play with that. You know, you integras

with your present and that you can't a person much more more more emotionally. Without.

Without. No, you know what your past. And also live in your present. That's the

best that you can't pass. And no you know, you're to make you because there

your father your father. You're not there. So, more well, I don't

don't have any I'm no more because I do I'm so I'm so I'm

so. I'm past and to say, ah, to my reales, to my

identity. And so what we're seeing the , we're doing the festivity of the

people, we're going to our past, we're going to and we're having it,

and we have to be so I include with an amor enormous, because I prefer I

this festival of the Murtos that the Halloween, although I know that's that's

so much. Well, what you is to start to make so as like,

there, there There's this a thing that we'd call the the version can't

call the version can't be a part of the person is vertical and it's vertical and it's

never it's because there a level where you put the belles the pan there's a place where

you know where you put the food and you know that that version can't

that has that's you know that is the ideal of the altar of mortes

so over that everyone put the Altar of Muartos as

can't do. There's there's a photo of the same there's there. And yeah.

There's who can put the food that he's he want to do the whole the

reportory of tacos that he the he's the I don't would be I don't

start or time at time on an altar of Murtos someone put some

something with the Kinti because because a lot he got because at

the Murto and I'm is going to be part of the food and the culture

Mexican, because we're a culture that absorb of all the day of the Muartes. It's a proof of

that's a future, will continue absorbing elements of very different cultures and will continue

thinking, I'm the pasto as a reference and I go adaptating to the

circumstances of the present. The two things all right we'll see

a calaver garvancera Catrina Otaku could get to Yeah, with a With a poloca

Marilla, but in calaver. And if that happens, the people will be able to see that

they'll be and others will bechasing and it's the time the time the way to do you

to do it. A lo more no they're going to disappear. Or at a year

in a year, the calaver garvancera, but you're the people who is the community,

that's the model, the ropa, so is the companies, that's the life. Exactly.

We're making and the enormous that has in Mexico just that has his food

as a property, patrimonial of the humanity. And now the day of the dead of

the mortals as also because we the world the world the Arab

of the pre-ispanical of the African we have we have we have we have

we have the world. But at the same time always has something that's a yeah,

it's just just mix, for mix, that's just that's a very particular and that's this is a

and this is this is a so far as our sason, to our flavor. And it and we're we're just

and we have that influence, and for that's so that's so that in what moment

in the time of the life that's that's that's that

the century of the year 21 2003 when the UNESCO it

in a patrimonial in this whole patrimonies intangible that has to be

with the customs, fiestas, etc. I think that also that's that we

we'll we'll we'll take in a time the day of the Newark

this Renacimento of the years and that the rest of the world

begins to be different this celebration that begins to be

a Mexican and tremendously distinct to what occur in all the parts of the planet. Of what we serve to understand historically and I

thank you very much that you have done this real realtor this tradition. So, about the death of

this tradition. What it's come to learn of this tradition of the time of the time of

the essence of the time of the death of the day of that our our ancestors to be

to be able those, what are that. I think that we're to record a series of lessons that

always are there but of a real velocity of the life makes that we're not the first of us the life is

fugas. The life is for always. It will be to be so. So,

and the fugacity of the life, the reality is that the problems

with those you end frontes at final they're going to be

the simple reason of that all disappear. Second, the past

is important. The past important. And for that one of year, you give the opportunity to record to those that were used before, always you're going to do very well. Especially when you understand that the

past that helps to construct and that you don't have to play with him, you know, you have to understand it. And third, that, if the death is a lotorosa, but in the record of the death,

there's a hope. And in that there's there also there

space for the reason, for the disrute, and for the first,

all the cultures that are the people, the did the Hispanics,

the did the people, the people, the people, they're

all, they're their part of the part of because we know

we make we're thank my thank you, let us Doctor in history.

Amigo, thank you. The people that want to learn more of you, you know, you're doing more in the world,

and where we can subscribe to our courses? Buskenska fundamentally in clionautica.com. That is my page,

where I always sub-information about the courses. I do many many courses in line, just to

people, both of Mexico as and other parts of the world. I'm Specialized in history

Mexican, but of a repent I'm met to history world. Clionautica.com is the best place where

where you can find out of clonautica. There's very. I'm 55 years. You, how many? I'm 53.

53. We're supposed contemporaries. We're saying that it's ultimately probable that in 30

years, you don't we don't get here. And that someone and that somebody is.

If you're still celebrating, I hope that is. I think so. I think too.

I think too. I think yes, and we'll do you say, what I'm saying, what I'm saying, what you want to

that you get to get to do you? Oh, I'm sorry. Well, for the most those tacos to pastor, man.

For the most. Some of them. Oh, no, well, yeah, but also it's not of the gusto,

then there's a postor. Look, yeah, I'm not sure, no, I'm not sure, a Coca-Cola,

this, um, no see, me enchanted the pasta of manzana. Ah, the things

that me I'd like, I want Orchata I'm like to get Orchata that you get some tachito

vegetarianos that get me get perritos that are in where they're doing what more

what more that's that yeah that's that's that's that's the things that are the

one's that a lot of a paltit a pavel a good interesting so when one when one

we put down to we can't we can't podcast that we're doing all this material

digital that's that's that's kind of that's going to be going to

YouTube and the social and the 20 years more later, will be this material

there because a difference of our times, that not they're podcasts

or programs that's not you don't you don't you can't you can't we can't

continue? It's will be more 50 years but but

you think that those antipasasas those were books and they're in

people. And in those periodical you know what to say, a very, 1,003, a periodical

in the people, and the people, there's not, there's life in the year? How will be the life?

The year? What will be? That's, will be someone? I'm, I'm a

person, I'm saying, I'm a person more so in the movie. And if I think,

wow, well, well, well, that they're the same and inquietudes that we have we know

they know them but I see I have the opportunity to know them and from us if we're saying to come to us and you're doing

important as for what we're going to be the greats the books of the great periodical because you want

to investigate those some of a particular specializing the digital continueer or is

to transform or the technology I know I suppose that is that the way in the same form

in the we have the people are the people are people are people are people who we're going to get to be in the

bathroom and resulta this is important that's important that's the you know I think I'm a

year there an archiv of TikTok for example where the people will and who know what

they're and who but there's but there but there's that's going to this is this is

grabable And they're doing while, look, that's interesting. What's a really?

In a museum. Yeah. Erika Winfield, playing. For example, with us. No,

influencers actual. Look, the people did that these things so far as those things.

Uh-huh. I think if someone is there is a 75 or in the 3000,

we're just a little because of the so much as like so much so much so much

so much so much we're The 5-Strella is a re-seeing a positive to us a lot of that the algorithms that, who knows,

if you know, even know, they're going to give to other people, so that the podcast is growing. You take a

few seconds, we'll help us much, and also you help us to that the message to get a message to

our community of AlmaMatters. com for having been with us here in the studio. Thanks,

and chikas, thank you, thanks, thanks, thanks, thank you. Thanks, to the maximum

potential. Thank you,