El Podcast de Marco Antonio Regil - 436.- ¿Amor sano o codependencia? Señales que las parejas ignoran - Chava Gutierrez

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

¿Por qué a veces cambias de pareja, pero terminas repitiendo la misma historia? En este episodio hablamos de relaciones sanas, codependencia, apego emocional, amor propio y límites en pareja. Chava Gutiérrez, terapeuta y conferencista,  nos ayuda a entender cómo una relación que empieza con ilusión puede convertirse en una dinámica que apaga, controla o duele. Hablamos de amor sano, interdependencia, heridas de infancia, patrones familiares y de esa pregunta incómoda que casi nadie quiere hacerse: ¿estoy buscando una pareja o alguien que me rescate? A veces lo que más te limita no está afuera, está en lo que creíste de ti y en eso que sigues repitiendo sin darte cuenta. En mi masterclass Rompe las barreras y diseña la vida que deseas, aprenderás a identificar esas barreras y empezar a soltarlas. Inscríbete ¡GRATIS!👇🏻https://almamatters.com/gratitud *Importante: Nuestros invitados son expertos en sus temas y reflejan su conocimiento y su punto de vista, siendo conscientes de que cada una de las opiniones es totalmente personal. La información, datos, comentarios, estadísticas que se presenten en el Podcast de Marco Antonio Regil, son de exclusiva responsabilidad de quienes las emiten y no representan, necesariamente, el pensamiento de Marco Antonio Regil o de la producción del podcast.

San Pablo Natural, no backes the guardia, refuerza your defenses, present it. The podcast of Mark, Antonio Regil, is a production of RGEL Entertainment,

and all his rights are reserved. All the people that are looking a relation that I think I know that's the majority of the

people, want a relation, but not want just a relation. Today, there's a relationship that one can be

a real life, that's better to be a wholeito than that's the people we're

we're doing relations sanas. Nobody's who wants to get in a infirnito. And for

so we've invited to a person who is an person who is a passionate to do it a job in

a job that's a little bit more than a divorce and also is a great deal of a party

and then very very much much thank Mark Antonio it's a pleasure to be here

when we're doing you know to do you want to really, to get to the

thing and he would get to the time we're we're because every we're

doing our experience. With base in a manual, what are the basis of the basis to create a

real real thing a new for the time? I'm the I'm very long thing. I'm not a question of

what I'm that you're that we're a lot of the time to the last time. The person with that indisputably we're more

more time with us The second person with we're more time with our time. The theme is that we don't know exactly how

gestionar it. When a person starts a recorriotive in the life, they're in the show and they're going to

start. Why? Because we're to find the validation exterior in instead of the interior.

Because we we're not we're not sufficient. Because we not they're not ensuing to learn

we're we're we're we're And what we learn is to memorize, to drag our emotions, to, with

so much, just to matter our dreams, and at final, with those things, when we're to know how auto-regularned

emotionally, without how how to make solicitutes of form assertive, or how precisely generate an interaction

more positive than negative from our center and not from the disbalance, well, well, at

final, what it's, the separation is the consequence more natural. So, we're the majority

still, although we're talking about this, and we've seen years about the time,

it's still with the image of the image of the love romantically. One day I'm going to find

someone and they've so we're so we're real. Look, to me molest,

because that of them were and were felices, or the principies that only

exist in the and they're even, they're just that's a idea. That's not

a utopia. That's no but after exist and not you don't prepare for the reality. Because when

you're when you're when you're when it's what you're what you're going to be you're doing?

It's just better than from the beginning to be having to be there. So, no, no,

so, no, so, there's a lot. So, that's perfect. We're playing with our

fathers, we're playing with our men, we're playing with our people more people more than the person more

near the person more and obviously, I'm going to know, the P. What? What?

What? A person that's a temporalalance a or a person that's unbalanced

permanently. Is that that's the thing is a lot of a constant, all is a thing.

If we're we're concerned that our balance, our energy vital, we're first, we don't

have any problem, because we have done in function of what going to be going to

when we have done our ideas of our when we when we understand our

narrative, when we don't understand the desos of the ego, to differentiate to the desires when we don't

know exactly what are our non-negotiable and our non-negotiables, there's when there's a conflict because we're going to the aheader

with the regal with the parchis. So, we want to have a relation outside, san and precious when we don't

we have a relationship and a great, we know, no, there's a form to saltarse that's a

part of the way, I see, but I'm that I'm that I'm the solution, but not you can't be

the other person think, how you think, Sienta how you feel, how you feel, how you

do you do? How do you do you need your own? What you need to do you need? I'm what I'm about it.

And how I'm end up here I'm in my life. So, for so when the people and do you

know, it's a little once in my life. Every one does it's with your life,

what's the does it. And I'm don't know, but if you want to be in the way, before the

before I'm to be able, I'm more I'm and I'm going to to develop a relationship with me. So, look,

of what it's about to try to try to look at this thing. Of what it's about? To have a

one of the eyes of the people or have two and they're in the whole to do you know the old to a lot of the

mountain, there's fast in the way. It's easy. It's easy. without being with a relation intimate.

But the complicated is to be in a relationship, be part of the solution, responsivize to effectively

of what you want, as well that the person that, for example, have problems in the

job, have difficulties to get in the traffic of the city of Mexico,

and even that's they're in a person and a person. It's a personal.

What would be the manual to work? Contigues, the personal first. For me,

for me the style of apego that you have. Stilo of apego that I'm. A-bego sure, the

apego evitative, the apego anxios, and the apego desorganized. So, all we have apego. All we are,

the people are the people who have talked the lotatia affective are those who have been a pegs secure.

It's those people who are the people who are sure of their own an apego evitative

is a sure of but as well he was that he was important for the other,

not confi was an I think I'm anxious, desconfiae of his capacities, to the maybe with

phrases, like when when you make in the mess, Mesa mal, I know, I

have a mentality bit more but I'm in the way to make more more easily

or more rapidly, because not they're not they feel like with the life.

And then you, you, you know, you can't you, you know, you're

there's a little bit more of a question. How I'm how I'm, because I

know, because I this is a question, if there's there's What I'm sure what type of I'm going to I'm going to therapy

I'm going to there's a there's a lot there's a lot type of app types of apego let's go let's make

let's make sure we not even put in this right now that's right but it's not put it in the description for that they're to be able to

see what type of apego that you have apego that you have already has learned that you know what you have to

do you know what you can't do you know what we're doing normally is for you're to be in the parke

to do you have done our other demand our our relationship to do you we're going to

we're to make a idea of now of I'm going to be able to get what not going to

when he's so that that's not really. Well, for example if I have a

one, that's my case of many case of many people, but he's divorced there's,

there was violence family or alcoholism is to a house roto a family

dysfunctional as you want you don't the family ideal It's out in the commercial

of Navi-Nabye, pap, mom, the children, regalos, no we've so. So I'm to look to

a pair of the family perfect that I don't have. For that we have the need to re-apprender

that we we don't do we're not really, but if normalisable, because each one

comes with a car of the and is conscious of what he does it

what is what I when I know me first, and I know this type of apego

and what are my carencies and I'm to work. What is the difference of how I

present I'm when I'm when I've worked on me to when I present to when I'm when I'm

and I'm and I'm going the princesses or the princey to help me. Well, I think the

benefit most important that we do you is how redesigner and how redirecting that

we're not we're we're we're not we're about the thing you do you

do you do you want to do you're going to get the thing to have the

herraments for that the same. You have one of the different not you know. So,

it's what it's what's in my case, no, only there's two types of different

or two types of family, more which are those who are disfunctional. And the those who are

not know that's those are the most of the first of a example,

of a family destructurated could learn, to know, that no, that's

that they have to put limits, that they have to tolerate the thing to tolerate

that's only only serve when you eviters to do contact or all the vincuble because you know the fact of

the fact that you only is sufficient in time as a person that's you do you do you want. What you want to do you

is what you do you want. It's serve to the other way in the that you feel like you can't

feel like you can't be because if you're vulnerable you're going to attack with that. All right

we're just when we're this is we this is I'm this is what I'm this I want to this is when

we're going to the possibility and the capacity to redesigner that guide that's the guine that's the thing is a pretty predetermined by

the cajita of the arraimientas that I'm what you're trying so. Of course the children who have been

of fathers have been the double of possibility of divorce that those are those are those

are together because what they have been in their car, the normal for them is papa

and mom together they're they're that they're together, that's not that's a

true, because it's a lot of it's in a lot of it's in a person, but we're

to put in a part of the part of the family, and mom had their and they're going to

their job, they're they're doing, then. So, that for that's normal, says,

ah, my papas do you do you do you're going to do a divorcee or a family

that's completely dysfunctional, so I'm going to think that the normal are the normal is the

normal is the normal is the secretos. that's connected just with the style of apego Fifety

confi in all case, in the best of the case, I'm in the other person then I'm so that's the

I'm I'm out-excluy or I'm and my satisfaction and my other part because

because I can't, like my my father and my mother also and we're normalisams

and the thing is that you're you're just you're so that's so that's so it's

you're not the same you know the I've heard the time I'm the times you

I try to be to be doing that my life is exactly exactly that's the mind

subconscious that's the person that's the so it's so that's so, before it

before you to find a a person correct that is to work in you to do that

correct for the other corrects for you right for you because everyone wants

to find the perfected but nobody wants never I'm

a a conferenceist I don't I know who was in the United.

It was a, and it was going to do to do make a list of the qualities that we're looking at a person. It was a lot of my first time. I was learning my first talliers and so. We did the list, and then us us

made like the checklist and say, and of that you what's you have you? I want to a woman that's a leal. And you are a person that

me listen and you know, I'm going to the thing to do the message to that's a great question. It's a lot of times

not happens not really of times not really when you're not sure when you go to cast mariposas you can go to

a red and pursue for any mariposa that you can't do to get your garden, prepare it to

prepare it to to make it and expect that the maripos when one when one is a

single and reuns the quality of the other is going going to not you can get you

you're you're you're doing you're doing you're doing it's you're sum.

It's a good analogy. Because apart you have to get to trap you're a I'm sure you know, you're

my, you're know, now you're going to be the endorne perfecto they're going to come many many people, and you

have to be to be able to be able to you're not the way you're a good example. The problem many times is

when you have a problem with a relationship, when you got to that's the

problem you how really you want to you're like the because the people confunded much

that chispa initial with when in reality that's not a more, that's in amortment in the thing is,

now in the love maddour in the election conscientious how we're we're doing how we're

our priority most important, which is to see a security emotional for the part's.

The principle is very beautiful. The person is very but the real love, it's been

you know, it's a construction, no, so, that's, the ennamorment is like the chispao, no?

But then, then, then, then you can encendent very the, the fire and maintain it a long plas. Sure, because it's like the person

that you can't choose a set of problems. The theme is, with what problems you can leader, and then is, how conjunctamence

you're going to convert into the a pair of the perfect or the marriage ideal, because never will be the perfect.

Yeah, no exists. So, for example, the the body needs, the body needs the body needs the heart,

the heart needs to the Cerebro, the Cenevro, the Cenevro needs to learn. And what is what the spirit, a legad? Of what form I can't share each one of these four elements with my partner, that in reality is your family and in the most sacred.

And that's very important to understand what I need. But also it's important to understand that my partner is it, and in best of I'm someone who coerter his liberty to live, to learn, to grow,

to love, be someone that or lo, appoey to that that's a that's a time- because precisely the people who

have done that's what is the WikiKai or your purpose, the person normally

that they can can't surk that's that you're when you when you know, sometimes

it's a different sometimes sometimes because someone want to be a lot of the people,

because they're things that they're there's everything that should be a So, for that exists

a country and they need families and a family and a cellular of a need a little way that's the

same way that's, a new way, a constitution, which is, who are the values that we are the culture

family, that this also is the truth of the idea, the it's the

how it's what you're what you're what you're what you have used what you've wanted,

what you're what you're what you're what you're family. How can you I can do a better way

if you're a lot of the question. But we're going to try to let's talk about that's important to make the

question to do that is if you let's do you first. If I'm regaled those questions. Because if

not you're going to do you're going to do this is to think it's going that are important if not you have done you

you've done you've done the treasure and the great benefit of doing it because there a pandemic

emotional and is to look the in the interior. Because we don't we know

that the life is in front to the world in a lot of and when we're doing the same we do that we're doing the

same we're doing what we're doing the right. And it's the recipe perfect for that we don't know. It's that

it's more way more to be more effort to be less effort. But if it's not, well,

but the statistics us say just that's just that not actually in other

times, in times in I'm more than you than you but of your abuelitos or

of the myos, the objective was very different. The idea was very different. What we was in the

marriage was much more more simple. And now we're not things of the family. I think my

abelos that were 60 and many years of years of and were like a life,

they're completely different. And no one had the expectation that the

other were their whole. They were they're companions of creation of

family. But each one had a a world, a world very different. My

my abuela, my mother, I remember that was a Catholic, a creient, and my abuel was ateo, he was,

I was, I'm thinking of the discussion. And here is where I'm interesting, because, you know,

in a world that a world that we're in a question for that I think we've that we

think we've a lot of a lot of a lot of the history in the humanity. Because you

think it's that's accentuated? Precisely, because relationships superficial, less relations intimate,

also. Also, also in the sense of that we're not we're not enough enough in a moment of a challenge of difficulty,

we have to three-meree and five-machos and what is what happens? That's the we're doing with a lot of

automatic, start so very saturated, that you're you know more impact, only want to only want to

only want to want to live. And, I'm just to get to something to put to be

a decision. Sure, is to learn to learn to live in the moment present.

But how many times we're really that normally we're in the past we're in the future, no pass

much in the relations that we're we're just our experiences or the illusions of what we're

we're really we're we're our entire it's much it's like a tono to we

we're at we're just we're just the world, that's the thing we're what's the thing we're

that's like a bit of a lot of you're doing you're you're to start you And, of the

whole the suitor encrusted and it's abrumas because it's more clean before before to start

to start. And thence it to make a one second, a stave, a noveana pasta, it's like,

oh yeah, it will be more, yeah, it's very but at the first but the

first you, yeah, yeah, and we're not, a relation to put a loose

to the places to workas that's that's inevitablyly because the relations

perfects are with the perfects and the people that we're most we're the people that

are the ones have the more that's the more power to make us feel like. It's the thing to see a

relation, not this relationship me will be a very this relationship me will help to grow.

And yeah, when I'm so it's, it's an expectation different. But the thing is,

the way me can make make to make without me myself?

Without divorce me of me myself? Uh, how I can do

of the balances temporals and not permanent. How can put those limits or how I can

author-regularm in the way that I'm that I'm going to have that I'm going to be a little bit

and I'm my time, my work to be the publicer to be a relation is a compatibility, and that's a good that's not a

idea, but it's that's adaptability. That's how I can do adaptability? that you can't adapt to me. For that's possibilities to encounter

that pair of ideal are minguando to the way we're going to because we're going to adaptating less and we're more more

more than we're more difficult to adaptate and when you have passed for a divorce it's more more than you

because if not you're not you're not when you're the second me comes more easy and the third

is more faster is more and it's one one thinks oh yeah the people that's

Intent for second or third time, has more experience. No. It's a second between the same about a positive of divorce.

An 80. The first is the 50. But it's what I always I think we're we're doing. We're learning for

different. But learn we always we're more easy. For that's it's more easy. Because how

it's a point in a point? When it's in a part, when it's in the water and

when it's in a torment? In Altamar in the torment. Well, I'm of that when we're sure

is when we're cemented the knowledge and then we do you know, we're perfectioning when we're in the torment. No, no, no, no, no. No, the torment

you have to have, prepared. There's curts. But the but the knowledge of the basic is there is a time of the

stormy, but you have to get to come to the water. If you don't the equipment, it's going to get the barco.

But is that the problem is that we're not we're able to let's not tomorrow, or almost all the people,

we're casemes we're we castes we're being stratosphorically inconscientists. We think we're that the preparation is

the love and the phrases very romantic but very very little effective of the love is there God will

help us God, God, God, I'm I'm in your hands this relation

for that you, father, vows and with the mazo and you know, you're

not you don't you call to him, put them the things in all in all

in all cause putsela in but not you need to what you

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all what they're offering. And now, continue with the podcast. Let me, let's what is a relation interdependent. That's what you said, that's the

thing called it, The book classic, The Seven Abitos, I remember when I studied psychology spiritual, we've been done that book,

like in the first month, we studied, we did the although I had laid the book, not had put attention to that

part. And that was the focus of attention. This is new. It's a information that's there's a lot of a lot of

we've got to understand it. How can we in a relation interdependent? If you want we a example, the difference

between a co-dependency and an interdependency. Yeah. And a independence that's... And then we also,

yeah, we're a story of a previous has been a addiction. He gets to a job, it's very

saturated, no knows more to and the stress they're and says, I'm going to be able to

get, of a sudden the posse, he says, no, no, no, my mother's, you're

here. He's in a pestillo, he's all the liquoreries, no he vending, you have to

keep to work because so I'm madres. He's got to the house, they're

no, they're no, no, no, no, he's and he's

there's a stress, multiplicated for tis, and the anxiety that they're

that's that's co-dependence. That's, I'm limited you, I'm, I'm

limit your better for you and for that you feel like you feel like you feel like you disappear to get to get to get in the

relation. So I'm sorry that's yeah. And that person normally is it's something less

because if no not it would be able to adapt to the other person? And no has no has autoestimate

but not has too not even that's auto-conocimient because he doesn't know how auto-regulars no

has already not has really what does what does what does really what does a colchon of people that they re-indiccindicant and exaltan

their individuality? No, put limits. Among other, many things, sure. He's not the submission or the other person on the

property. And one of them is a woman of the relation, because it's the manned. And there is where there's

where there's the codependency emotional, co-dependency financial, co-dependency financial. There's, there's like a

head in the relation, or a geoffa in the relation. If no, it's, and independentsia, not so

it's not for election, but there's people, like, about about another way, that here in

the podcast us has said, that she has been like a person, when a person

when a person control the other person, because it's for one or other reason all the power of the

power, is a kind of you, what you think? No, total. It's a

violence and is a crime. The only thing is that still not is included in the government,

when it's has a bad self-esteem, has a mindset of victimism, continually not he's not a lot of

and he's and his life goes to a person to the person of the right. And the

people say, and why not they're and why not it's bad, and that's not so

I'm not going to and it's very easy to be able and it's not hard so much

so much so profound, in reality what you know is how you're to be

you're you're you're there's a certain sentiment of but at the same time of rebelia, of frustration or even recornered

I would have the same if you're in that position. I want to do I'm just only or I'm feel able. I'm trying to

I don't want to because I don't have that determination because I have the identity of I'm a

person dependent, I don't I'm as we're in me but if I confio in the

other. And it's is creating a resentment strong. And that brecha, it's

generated as a long of the time and it's a lot of a lot of a lot of people who's about the person

kind of people and does what you do it's the way to dolas to not make some problems but it's a reincor

a distance a very much that's not that's... The most what's... The most is that they're

they're trying to do they're but in reality at the final what they're

they're a relation toxic, where one control to the other, basically. Exactly. Or the two are in competency trying to control

to control. Then we're the other part of the example, no. Mimma situation, the same context, that's the that's the dependency.

Now we're the interdependency, we're going to the interdependency. Pardon. The co-dependency, we're going to get to be able

about, he's a bit of I'm going to be able to I'm a moment here. I just remember what we've been

previously. I don't know to live the same time to live the time I'm going to what you have happened

that's that's been there's a I'm doing to do you? I'm sure. How you're more

sure? In this situation without to go to do you know, I'm not you can't control the

24 hours of but if I can't make the decision to say, this is something that's a very good

the example. You're very good. I'm just I'm playing, but also I'm doing but also

I'm trying to control you. But if can't support you and I can do I can't do

what's the way to do you know what's the time. It's not going to be able to control. No, I'm going to say, no tombs. No, I'm going to say, what's doing it. I'm going to say, what I'm doing. But I can't decide not participate in that. And so I can't decide not be able to get with an alcohol. But for me, the interesting is because many times we're going to be an extreme. And when we don't know to put limits, it's to be in the extremism. And the mind

human is a problem but the not can't tolerate is the precipice that constantly that any

that's a problem to be able to be able to because it's a duel also. Imagineate

to form constant to live the pain the of a problem. So,

what is what interesting is, I'm I'm doing to me, but I'm doing to be doing

to be able to be able to to do not I'm a position of superiority of you have to change, you're going to no, no, no,

but one is support a moment, an episode in that other person going to go and the other person, you know, you know,

this not was the way, this is the constant, if every time there's a problem, it's a try to do do you get to

get to affect the parche. For that we we have to the escalation to the escalation of the responsibility.

is, carino, my my amor, this is something that has been a lot of this is a lot of it's a

question. I would be a question and I'm like to understand what we're to do so that we're doing. Yes, and we

do you know? Yeah, you've asked for favor. Amor, this, you know, we've been

the last last time, I don't want to be reiterative repetitive, repetitive, repetitive,

as I'm, I'm not I'm sure, what we're doing the we're going to do you go and we

going to go to go to go to go to rehabilitation. Because I'm understanding that this problem is more grand than you.

You can't? Or what is what we can do? Because I'm the same, no I'm going to tolerate. If it's just a ultimatum, you know, we've done this, this, and this. I can't matter inconditionally, but the

love inconditional, no is suffering inconditional. So, then if, if, after to pass by the center of rehabilitation, you'll go, you're going to all the of the of my

heart I'm going to have to do a process of a lot of course because it's a deal

very good for me but we're not going to be able to there. There's a there.

There's a problem. But normally, what the person, that the woman does when the

woman says, point and that's important, that's that's a thing that's what's what I'm

seeing, these are the consequences, these are the are the actions that we're going to make the

moment we know the me and we do my You support and you communicate. I'm transparent because

the transparency is one of the pillars of the relations or the families but at the same time, I'm doing

my balance. The thing of the love inconditional a lot, a reason a very well,

because, like you your love inconditional not is suffering inconditional, it's

to give me inconditional because to be not is to be able to be to the

person for the rest of your life. I can I'm to take to take distance and say,

I'm, I'm the better, but I'm, I'm, I'm, and I'm, I'm going to

be to be in this destruction, in this auto-destruction that you're in the destruction that you're not going to

you're not, you know, you're doing, and the other person just, it's not doesn't, not want to

the same, it's the other things, no, or how it's the day to because much times what

is that we think we're when in reality is the interest composed. As we've more

the things, in the example of material, with the immaterial, it's like, if I'm a

million of dollars or you know, I'm a centaur doubled, to take you to get a lot of, obviously you, because you're

a person like you're I prefer the centaub. And is that the centavers, so the dollars, at the

time of the two days, doubled one after the other. So, if that's going to be the money,

really, it's really, it's really, it's not things with the connection, with the community,

is, how we're we're we're we're efforted much to to conquer a person that

we're just but one we're going to it's like what is the second objective? No,

we're not we're to what we need to be that's too the relation codependientes no,

I'm doing, I'm sorry, I'm going to you're not to take the bottle of the box and I'm

I'm sorry I'm the interdependientes is I don't want to participate in this we've

been I'm not I'm not going to participate in this auto-destruation the independence

would be, for me is what you know, that's the do you know, you're doing the same, you know,

you're the you're not a relation. A few people even back on the same but they're independent,

yeah no there's a way, you know, more pragmatic to make a one of the things, you and you

we're a couple of a quarter that we know, a corda a cord, and each

one has a necessity emotionales and the and the independence would be the interdependence

would be the co-dependence would you you're more more more you're doing the and I'm

little bit of my needs emotional and I'm really good but the interdependency would be a two you know what you

want to be you want to you want to you want to you want to be you know what you and we're that's very

good in the example is the interdependence that's the interdependence and it's a equilibrium and it's like you get

we're getting we're not we're doing it's is maintaining the equilibrium with little just

for the important important, and important a importantism, a powerous amissed, because it's the

quality fundamental. When we're a couple of a couple of years that's when they're when they're

how they're like, how they're like you know, you know what they're saying, it's because they've generated

a good amissed during the whole life. And the problem is that the people don't

know how much are the characteristics of a good amstack a good person, he went to

a month to be a backgations and, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

had grown and he had been more of 70 years. And one a year,

so he was to go to go to work because he was going to get to have a time to get a

concert of music classic, to learn things new, to be a a tourist. And it was the

time a year during a month, four three months, every one,

every one, and that and that and that's that was there was there

and then the first that need that had been that in that month to do

do what they were they were in a couple very, very pegated. But that was the interdependence

time. Time free. Yeah, and no passable nothing. And nobody was so I was

so I'm because you know you get you know, what you do you do that's what you're

that's, you need to you need for a month for a because I have done my life,

that's yeah not would that's is the is the love. The more.

is that for to get us. It's a marred liberty. And much people use this term

chabel the relations verticales versus those relations orisontal what is the difference?

How can see? Well, look, the relations verticales is there's there's a

subordinado. There's a amo and there's a clabor and there when there that

operation, is when exists a certain level of that never is at the

100% but it's that's a a relationship horizontal is an relation equal, it's a

relation in Granada. That's what we need to do as family is what is the role of each one,

what are their functions and responsibilities and how we're going to help in those the devers and responsibilities. I don't

I'm sure. I don't know because there people, independently that are men, there's people who are

people who I'm not I'm like, I like the leadership and with the leadership, because if

it's all well and you put this the gorute the gorgett of the goal to and we

we're going to do it. If it's it's all it's all it's it's really, you're

and there and there people who like to support to do the support and if you know,

and if you don't have that the team, then the things so the

so I'm that I'm a lot of the woman can be the person, you're my brother,

my patty, she was the, she was the person, but she I'm, but it's

has to have a a, a complement But this still still being the role

is different. Of course, it's of equal and equal but with different roles. It's that it's not

different. So, we're not we're not we're different. But we're not a hierarchy

not I'm your chief. Of course, it's one of the abilities essentiales that need to have a

relationship to have a relationship to say the person a general, not try

to convince or to imponor, is you you have you're right in your

perception the fact of the reason for me is a problem, for me not a manned

I'm going to be a less, I'm going to put in risk what I want to give the

reason, I'm to do you that way we're to be that we're to adapt to both

and what we're we're some relations where one of the two a

sometimes the woman have they're they're not I'm not I'm

not I'm not I'm talk to say we're we're we're let's go

to go to be So, so, so, you know, you've got to you're talking. And many times the

he's the person, he's not, he's not because there's many other things that we know about,

like the thing, normally if she has been to be doing permission, no, what,

what I'm that's you've done, you know, to what you are you're to be able, or,

of how you he's got to you're still to get to to get to to get to to get to control.

Sure. One of my Primus, I said, you know, and we said, hey, we're going to

we'll come the Saturday. Well, no, let, let, I'll be to talk about

my my spouse. And I'm, no, we're going to come the Saturday. Oh,

yeah, we don't come we're not we never we've seen. He's he's a

no, no, but let me be you know, literally you can't you know, literally not

not, with a part of together, no? So, so there's where you is where

And it's normal, to find to count, to have the amount of the people, of the people that are the

people who are there's a bit of those submisos. So, if they have expectations, but that they have to be able to

the same point, from the same point, from the equality. Yeah, it's, we're just, we're taking

these decisions, and then if it's, obviously, we're, reconducing or redire, those pactos,

it's without without, because it's very different, that you to say, let me, Let me check

because we do things we're doing the time we're doing we're doing without my wife.

I'm just I think the idea. I think the most I'm a problem is that's in. we can't be in in in the idea. that's a reason why it's

a problem. A lot of the characteristics. It's a lot of example. It's, can create a relation when someone is in a place

of a job that has to be a hierarchy over the other person? I mean the two things, for example.

For me, no. Because the fact of the fact that is the aspect professional and the

personal, there are people who are going to get to be very illuminated to get to get it.

And, and also, we need to all different when we need to be when you when you

you can't you know, that's been a person that has been a grito, and you want to to be menudo men's

that I've encountered in the group when we've been in the council of the administration, because that

men's your husband, or your husband. So, so we don't we have that freedom of

expression or to be or to communicate to the world what we need to we need to

we're I'm just because much times, as much we're just many common that in

the work that's there's can do do you do the actors, the work

to enamelas in the way of in the offices, they're doing in the politics and the

people, the deputator's they're in that process, not? Like what in the work

not in the time. And independently of that one has a role and a department where the responsibilities are

of one and not of the other, where not the where if is going to about to a job

to be the time that the thing that is the one, there's, there's

how do you make that more more easily. But no it's a different to

a person and another in the part of the person and the is more

that's of the equal, like, knowing that every who will have used

a role different that's not the very, not. So, because,

today there's like much a woman, that's the woman, and a man.

And I'm, what he has a unidad. So, of the fact, there are

many people that say, we're, we're to accept us muttoned we're to respect

us, we're we're all time, different, not it's not the not it's

not more more harmoniously, So every that we get us in a certain type of dynamical

that's that's not we're going to then we're so we're and then we're again. And we're back,

we're talking to a little bit of a friend that's called Danny, this, that's a very, a

much intelligent, very chad-a-a- -pallant, but at the same time, very traditional and he says,

a me I like that I'm good to do you those people that don't that they're perfect,

deemmmelo to me, to but at the same time is very very very strong. I don't like that they

like that's they like this role more traditional that some that's a very people that's

where she wants where she wants where she wants that, between commas protection of a role more

more traditional of the and there there's that's the thing of the self-conocimient

who you're who what type of relationship what are what are your priorities

when has been more more than you've learned? serve now. What you're to do you're going to

do with a different. There's there's a question that are the first that you know what I'm

when a person when a person and he asked oh yeah, how's this application

how you're you're not you're and I'm like I'm like, ask you questiones

what are those some questions what is what is the question what is the

question because are the many other the last time you're you're at

a therapy you're a lot of I go, I'm going to ask them to because there's some little

because there's a lot of things that you know, you know a connection outentical, because there's

much a mask and there's many little people who really have the valentia to be vulnerable. This episode

we're talking to we're doing a person a person a real thing a person a

that's, then you can't not you can't control how it would do it but it

would be that would be that would be the life. That's a little, that ideal,

what a beautiful could be able to do these questions. Because at times do you know to make sure but if your intention is clear,

I'm going to not in the first set, so how you but in the first site you could be to say,

you're doing, you're you're doing? What do you do you're a relation of long-plazzo, the long-plazer

you, you're a idea of a relationship for the life? And if the response is yes,

and say, oh yeah, then then then our level of communication in the future citas, it would be interesting to know us to be managing the contacto and

say, no, no, of the gulf you're going to, what are your areas of opportunity? What, what are you doing your last in your last relation? No, but if, yeah,

but if, do, see, do you know, but also can't the legation that is the legation that you want to what is the future that

you're trying? What is the dream you were when you were a little, that's the type of questions, for example,

they used. And then I had a a trick that me servia much, much, ago,

I'm very years. When I was soltero, when I was in the university, I mean,

I was, I'm I'm, I'm going to get a bottle, and I said,

this is the this is the trick. You can question whatever thing. Only

there's a regal. No, he's no, when someone doesn't say a

little, a chupito. Then, then I'm the game and I said the famous question of oh, hey, for the time

that we've got known us, how many people there are that you? And me said the phrase, no, well,

the 12, the 15, the 7. And I always said, then you're saying, that in just

two hours, I'm just the person number 12 that better you know, that's when connected,

emotionally. You're a good ligator. You're a good ligator profundo. Niño, because you're that's like so

the appearance of a but with abilities ligators. Well, it's good because you put a sense of the humor.

No, it was the reality. I was totally transparent. And it was also, I had a area of abandoning very profound.

So it was a way, I want to I'm abandones. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. There's another

part, obviously, but also there was the part of where where it's what were with those

that were to make sure because they didn't say the what were the ones were the they were

the reason? For example, what is that that's a secret that has told to nobody? What is that that's that's called to that's

that's that's in and you're doing to and trying to that the day well, get as the before you need

to do something what type of things have that's that have generated a great anxiety? Of what

the relation with your father's, it has influenced you have been to have been to

what has been the the relationship more the relationship So, the time is the first Cita. That's the one

that there's a bottle. Because if not if you are so stustan. Well, all they were in

cantas. That's. Because what we said, because you know, you said that's a game.

So, then I made a sense of the humor to do that really. And then also the

that's that's all the night. So, for the night, so you can't the parpado,

but you know, more of verb, because you tend to want to normally

they're more reparar to communicate. In the night, you know, is more propens to do you?

Sure. Because you know because you have a lot of because you're to get a lot of you're in a your own.

You're just like, you know, exactly the guard in the night. Exactly. Yes, yeah, more than that it's a

one thing it, a senita, a more romantic that we're going to eat. Mm-hmm. It's really is one

can't be in the night, and it's like, we're, we're, we're we're going to

let's let's let's that's like me attract the amygicinal always the thing is the interesting

because the part meteorological, what you're there's more solead, and also and also and also, and also,

and also, when the person for example, they're going to when I say, I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm a person, not this person not here, I don't want to participate in this,

or when they're when they're more popular we are, is when we're more more motives

to que because it makes a because it well, the fact of the fact of the fact of the

or the attention for the question for the moment. What do you to say to you know, you know,

you're in a couple, but what you said to she of that person when they started

to talk about about the ex-pareja and to say, my ex-pareja is that is that

is that no me had to be a lot of a celos and this and they and they

they're and they what you what you what you the mentality of victimism the fact that not she

was responsible of the things that she was able to put limits, that was about for comodity or for

customary. She was a person who was a proactivity or that resolution to get really really what

he was that was what he was that was that was that was that was that had to be

a dynamic of power that within the family of origin that was what was

what was to be to make what she was looking what is the person

fear of the soledad. Oh, but what are the , like the , like, the way of you're a relation a lot of, you know,

when those when you're you know, it's the way, not the way to create a relationship

a real time. I've a time, in a conference of a other thing, I'm sure that he's

sure that he was, they're talking, they're talking, they're resolving, they're resolving, the problem,

and no, obviously, no, it's, obviously, it's better to not

to be able to do not talk to talk to not be able to the issue. And it's a little bit about there's a

basic and necessary as the reparation. Oh, that's made a perfect. If we're humans, that we're

we're sure. That's the time we're better, because we've done a past some of a person, let me have

let me let me go back, because they're in session, let's just only abelenss in 48 hours that was

that's a anniversary. I said, to you're saying, to you're thinking the one and the other, that's a

manhue, how's atrebe with what I do you do. Because you put, you clas with that feeling,

with that emotion, and from that they don't they're all right. But if you do you do you repartes, it's other

thing. For that the phrase of a relation conscientious is that where they they're

that they're that they're in your aligres, it's very easy. Only to be simply to

be a minimally a person. The clave is that you don't your dolors.

And for that do you dole your and it and it don't

get to be in the empathy and capacity to repair to, I know,

I know we're we're we're different. But as we're doing it

I'm to be to get to to get to this visit,

or this night I know this because because

me I'm I'm so because I'm thinking that you

this that's that dole. And I'm doing something to that you understand that in this process of

the process of the time we're doing I'm doing to dole, I'm doing. How do you doves?

How do you do you know, you can't help you take a person of a project to say, ah, I'm

going to change or I'm going to change. That's the is the way. So,

not it's not more more than, it's more more than you said, well, for you adopt a

cat, if you're you're adoptas a a cat and say, I'm going to to show you to me try the the ball.

Well, no, no, it's not in the naturalness. So how you discoveres what you're to make that

person how he's a person, how he's how they've done your parents, how it's how you're

how much you've done? Normally, when he's a problem, how it's has been a

about, how it's about your problems with the problems that you're about the problems or

difficulties have done with your problems or For you, what is the prototype of a friend type of a perfect? If your friend not

thinks of that would be a problem, or it would get to get to be able to get to what you

do you do? You know, you know, you know, you're doing a little about the thing, or prefer

to not be a lot of a question, or do you think the things when before you put to the

things more people. Many when there tropios that's in the in the relationships,

how's in the tropeasso, no? For example, I'm, an am I'm, a man, me,

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, and I'm, he said, and I'm, he's,

he's, he's, and I'm getting, and I'm, getting, something, and I'm,

never, he said, he's, like, a hour and after a second, me,

I said, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's like, no, it's, was,

I was very Kans, I said, I'm sure, I'm sure, no doesn't know, I'm going to all over, to us

pass. And yeah, during one hour, me still you send him to message, of repentiment

of the alarm, I, I'm, I'm, I wanted to five minutes because I'm really put the

alarm, and I'm the vesty, that I'm so I'm and I'm and I'm getting, and I'm

let's say, let's say, I'm, I'm from I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm I'm,

I'm, the best panader, We've got more to 15 years of Amistad and I know do you know

do you know it's a purpose but I'm know how she was doing a torment very strong

and was suffering for auto-jusgar so I'm revaled so two forms very different to encasal if you've

said you've said yeah for compensarmel if you you're to go to tell

restaurant and me you try the food and we send us in my house so she

I've so she So she needed Like she needed to Like I needed to pay The fault, I'm going to And then it's

What's the thing is the majority of the relations Sanas and not Sanas? That's a got a got to that goes to

get used to And that so we're So we vacuums How we vacuums Mediante the reparation

So, so we're We're just We're just We're just We're just We're just We're never

We're gonna We're like We're Like a while It's like It's isolated, but when there's recident, it's a lot.

So when it's reincident, there's when it's when it's the second pass. That is, why has what has happened? What is going to? How is we're going to how we're going to

do you? It's a thing. What elements, that activities, what circumstances, what are you? If someone, for example, is very aggressive,

oh yeah, you can't do you do you know, you can't to start to do therapy, you, you can't have more conscience corporal,

for that, you know, you don't get a infusive and recurras to the gritty when there's

not a need to the third point, is the first point, how I'm how can't repair the other to do you know,

what is the question of communication, because it's really, I know, I've never, I know, I've done,

so no, it's not, so it's not, if it's all , then we're not sure, but for me no, but for me

no way, because in my mind, I'm still I'm still I'm just to cancelar the Cena,

then I'm a comodin and as you you can't you know, I'm going to you know, I preferrower

my comodin for the future. No, I need that come and me bring to the sene, no need to do you

know, but you know, she was a need to be a new so there's in the communication and I'm

I'm saying, I'm a problem and the really no problem. We'll see tomorrow, we're going to we're going to

make a because you're because you're because of many years but a relation of a relationship,

if one has, because we're going to the same we're going to we're going to we're in perfected

and we're a set of problems that we're going to try to the relation. So the problem is

when it's when it's a certain that's a real incidences, that's a lack of that's

that would you generate a molestia or resentment or rencors yeah, but as much,

I'm going to say, I'm not it you're not you're you're not that you

kept you there, there's a there there's something you The idea of what I normally I'm going to

I'm going to is in bed that the other person presuppong or suppose that is what needs the other person

to repair the time, that one has the thing has the restaurant that you know, you're like

you're going to and we're in my house and you're more you're more just not just

just so just so just just to just like just just to say she doesn't that she

maybe I'm I'm there's not no I guard me the comodin when

When I me pass No me You know me You know You know You know You know The commas

The commodin, It's like, it's like, It's like, So, well, you know, he can't

with that and it's connect with that role, but the matter that is like it's like it's like

it's like it's the same also the same if you're a favor may be able a few years,

he's he's a favorcicic and at the principle is a favorstas that's the

is the communication not assume that the other person has been the same process of to resolve a conflict than you. And to say,

what's going to what's going to the communication clear and effective? Chabba, some other I want to give you guys?

There's a question that there's a person for me I'd be a podcast about this. Well,

then it's in the future. But resumient or something or something that you want to say, I'm going to

the fact of the fact of we're not the fact of we're things good that's

my my son, that's what we do you know, this has been a lot of we're doing, we're doing

we're doing we're doing we're doing the we're doing with the kids and we're doing for this, for this,

for this, you've done it's very good and we're connected with you. Another

claves fundamental is for example to have conversations anti-stress the world

gets to get to a little different so so the The fact of to find, for example,

a a company of life, that's and it's your team, and that's that's your and that's

to do you know, to do you know, to make a total difference, because it's a lot. Courses, like having an

more perruno, that I'm really because you're going to get to the and they're in the energy. That pereza,

that way, yeah, to get to to your house, to be a good, and that's it's your

way, no, no, we, we, we, to where we we're the project of

the project of the life we're going to we're going to see how you can't you as how you're

to do you to do you to do you and how can't you can't do you and how we can't do some

there's a thing that's that's a that's a how much when your partner is you and your

company says, well you do you're what's wow, how I'm what's in bitty

of, ah, and why? And what and what does? And where? No, no. That's what I don't have said that. Versus, appoyartes. It's that, what you do you guys? Because if it's in a suffraiment to the communication, for what you? And that's the basis that we've done last, the best of the other person, well, to be

to be a other person well, but for me, are three claves. It's, our best friends are the best ones So, not only it's not only it's really to know how it's

to know to know how the other person, the marvellous of the self-knowing is that

the way you know that you know to the other person. The other point of the

other point of that's there's many of the problem, if I have a circumstance, a difficulty,

that person is that person, it's a part of this. The 67% of the parents

are the different emotional. No me important what you you know. So it's,

because it's because it's really a really a lot of it's a question to be in your plan to the minding,

that's a lighting, that's a maltraping, that's an thing, okay, because this is important

for you, how you can help? That we're to be, that much what happens is that

we're we're in position to help us. Because if you're in the soil, I'm,

what I need to be able to be to be to be to be I'm in the world

I'm not I'm I don't even. So much times each one you know, but it's a simple as as much as

my love, my right now I'm not not I'm really on my moment or I'm very

stressed, I'm very so I'm time, if for you it's very important, we can

see us in a part of this is what we can't do this problem for you to the

zero to not it to be not, or for me this problem is the zero to the

zero to a four, no, for me, it's a one, it's so is

that's a know. I'm there for you and then I'm more moments good and the problem is

that then you get to the neutrality is that's like an electrocardiogram is like no it's like no no no no no

no substance because we're trying to we're doing that's yeah and if

I'm you're trying to you chava how you need to need to do need to you know

I'm saying that's what you're what I'm what I'm how would be the support that I'm going to

that's the idea of the question is good goody and I think I'm going to complementar it is clave about because

many times we're much we're doing what is your necessity emotional? I need a security

I need adventure, I need stability, I need something, I need to what is

the necessity emotional? Second, what is the solution ideal? Because many times like we

we're making all the alternatives to cover a problem when is solution you

want. There's a lot of mueganito, very pegat no, the dulce of meh

in Mexico that's so I'm not in Mexico, but there there's people who we need to

more space. So, also a question intelligent would how you

see a way? How do you feel you're getting space and where you

get to get invaded or invadited or invadied how so it's

this interdependence in the relationship. A sometimes I need things

things like need time to need to need literal.

And not all all those have a officeine to have done but in all the time for mail

for a video, to investigate to explore because I know much when I'm sometimes

if there's the person all the time to me does that's time so,

so, so, and say, I say, for me it's important that space or I

want to I'm to go to play paddle or or I want to do with my friends

or my friends I'm I'm I'm want to my family in form independent

to start with my prims primas, not, I mean, to say it,

how is, how is, how is, how the interdependency is to start a kind of co-dependency?

Uh-huh. Or, how does it to get me free, and I'm to feel like or a

like that, so how describe that. It's is a question that you have in mind,

you know, it's to be to be to talk to and so, and so and so

it's to question to one to when I feel abrumated, why me

I'm abrumado. For example, we're talking sanas. One of the clas fundamental is, okay,

what are our conflicts? A level personal, and this enter a part of the relationship,

but also, the relationship of the relationship, what are our ones are our triggers? Because,

before the things explet, escalate. How can them to make it's to get

that's that's not, what are our own, what are our are those different, what are

those are those kinds of some those that are that are we can't, we can't

we're other person are an allyado, but not a competition. And to understand that the person is changing. The U.S. humans, we're

changing every year, every certain time. We're different. And what was in, in 2024, at a more,

it's not function in 2025. And for the year, and so we're going, because right I need more space.

Or I need less space. Or I need more time with the family. Now, I need less time with the family.

So, that we're we're in a routine in a and that routine is for all

the See what curious. Actualizance constantly the applications that we have in the phone, but not the knowledge that we

we're in the person with the person with the we're in the person who's it's very very important. One of the

thing is that the major pastime, for example, that they have the parents, is to be the television.

So, so it's like that one what you look after after that's just to get to because of

a life where the disconnection means, not think, and not questionate or not

or not to be in the moment present for the life that's

talking that's not a not that's the matter and the mutual the money. It's a

we know we're this is stimulant. This is stimulant. We're going to let me talk to make it

very much. I'm very where we're doing we can't find out of you in Instagram like Chaba Gutierrez and in www.

Chabutieres. It's been a pleasure and one of a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, my dear Chaba Gutierrez.

To me he has been like Mark Antonio Reginal in all the media in all the social.

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and Tony Regil that we know that you got it and put us there, what you

like it. And we're reposteam and we're reposteamus and we're doing this.