Embedded - 383: The Monkey’s Not Gonna Work

Episode Date: August 5, 2021

Mario Marchese (aka Mario the Maker Magician) spoke with us about robots performing magic, humans performing magic, and writing a book about making magic. We also covered art, making, learning, Sesame Street, performance, design, humor, Piff the Magic Dragon [sic], magic secrets, and gracefully handling technological failure. You can find Mario on: His website mariothemagician.com YouTube (MariotheMagicianNYC) Instagram (mariothemagician) Twitter (@mariomagician) Facebook (mariothemagician).  His book is The Maker Magician's Handbook: A Beginner's Guide to Magic + Making. We talked about Jean-Eugène Robert-Houdin, 19th century French watchmaker, magician and illusionist, and the amazing Aldo Colombini.

Welcome to Embedded. I am Alicia White, alongside Christopher White. I don't think we have enough magic in our lives right now. So I've invited Mario Marchese, also known as Mario the Maker Magician, to hang out with us. Hey Mario, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome. Could you tell us about yourself? Yeah, so I'm from New York. We live north of the city in a wonderful town called Nyack along the Hudson River. My name is Mario Marchese. And I travel with my family. My wife, Katie, and I have two children, Gigi and Bear. And we have a theater show that we tour. And the whole show is about mixing robotics with traditional magic and sleight of hand.

And it's been a fun journey, inspiring kids to be makers. All right. Of course, we have questions about the making and the magic. And the robots. And the robots, of course questions about the making and the magic. And the robots. And the robots, of course, and the robots that do magic. But first, we want to do lightning round, where we ask you short questions. We want short answers. And if we're behaving ourselves, we won't ask you how and why.

Are you sure that it works that way and it's not real magic? Which Muppet would you be if you could be a Muppet? Animal! which muppet would you be if you could be a muppet animal i mean there's not a doubt in my mind i don't even have to think you know i mean uh i'm totally i think most of my days especially with performing i feel like animal you know i think that's the best way to put my show i think my job as a performer is to get kids to feel like animal, you know, like just free and just excited and inspired. How do you think the robots will treat you when they finally take over the world? You know, it's funny, like, it's one of the most common things I get with, you know,

the robots that I build and the magic mixing. I think you bring out actually a great question. I think part of my mission is robotics are not going away, you know, it's and it's and it's affecting every form of life that we have. And, and the sooner that we can make robotics playful, the sooner that we can connect to robotics as companions, I think the better the world is going to be. And I think that's part of my overall mission is like introducing robotics in a fun way, like to create comedy, to create magic for entertainment, you know, and understanding that, you know, like we can program things to make people laugh. I mean, that's a powerful, that's a powerful thing that We're living in a powerful time that we can do that from home, you know?

Have you ever licked a nine-volt battery? You know, Piff the Magic Dragon has threatened to lick nine-volt batteries when we do videos together. No, I have not. You haven't? That's actually one of our stock questions. You might be surprised. Do you have a favorite fictional robot?

Oh, Johnny Five, you know, the movie. Was it Short Circuit? I think it was. Yeah, like that. I mean, the emotion that robot created in all of us when you watch that film is part of the core of why I love making robotics too. Like, I don't know. I just, there's something about that whole story and that robot that really gets me excited.

What card am I thinking of? Queen of Hearts. Damn. Do you have a tip everyone should know? Well, oh, that's a, so in in what way like a tip in what like a life tip robotics tip whatever i like i um i think it's important to remember that black is ground and red is positive usually okay what came first not lightning round anymore. What came first, making or magic? Making. Definitely making. I started making when I was four or five. My mom, she used to wash. I just remember her washing all these dishes and then cleaning the table out. And then she would put an object at the center of the dinner table. And we would sit quietly for like an hour just trying to draw what the object was and I think that's how the journey started you know just using your

hands and just creating something outside of yourself you know how did the magic come into it you know the magic came in almost by accident I mean I have a funny story I talk about it a lot but you know I was really into street performing you know after high school and i i bumped into a magic shop by accident you know like i walked into a physical brick and mortar magic shop and my favorite scene from my favorite movie was playing on a beat-up vhs player at the back wall and that moment was like really freaky and i remember realizing as i was walking in that it was an important thing that was happening. So it started like that. It was just kind of weird.

It's just a crazy, weird thing. I remember my parents, I would always beg them. There was a magic shop on the main street in Disneyland. Every time we went to Disneyland, I just wanted to spend the whole time in the magic shop. And I never got good at anything because I was too lazy. But there was just something about all that stuff and the kind of the whole environment there with all these little mysterious things. It was so great.

No, I mean, Chris, you're nailing it. I mean, that's I think that's something that is in all of us. And I think that's like part of the magician's job as for grownups is like remind like making you feel like that child, you know, like, cause, cause we're literally playing with toys and, and like one of my favorite things was early on when I got into magic, I was very fortunate to be part of a magic club that someone invited me and everybody was like in their late seventies and eighties. Like I was so young in that group. It was crazy, you know, but the beautiful thing was was i know this is going to sound morbid and weird but i'm going to say it anyway is i was 23 and i'm watching these 80 year olds like 80 people that are in their 80s playing with sponge rabbits and clown noses and it was the first time i left where i was like wow it's okay to grow old you know like like we're all kids like it was this

huge realization to me and i was like i want to I was like, I want to be in this room. I want to be in this group. And that's how it kind of started. And that club helped me a lot, too, because they took all the noise away and they taught me the classics of magic. Rather than me just spending money randomly trying to find a trick that pleases in the moment, they taught me these core principles of magic. And that kind of helped shape my show. You know, When Ben first posted your, a link to one of your videos on our Patreon Slack,

it was the robot performs a coin magic trick. Could you describe that for folks who haven't seen it? Yeah. So I built this cardboard robot called a Tamabot. And one of my goals with robotics is I want to have a robot that does the whole trick without me touching it. There's no human. That's it. And it's funny you mentioned that because talk about core principles of magic. That robot performs a classic of coin magic, which is called the coin matrix. And basically what happens is it's a mat with it's just four quarters that are just like in a square on each corner. And one by one, the quarters travel in a pile at one side.

So what's cool is that this robot, you know, my robot automobot performs that trick. And it's very fast paced. And it's and it's super visual. And it was a absolute pain to create. I don't think I'll ever do it again. But but the beauty was that one take when I got it on my phone, and it all synchronized and work because I have multiple robotics. Like there's multiple circuits that are all in sync, you know, for that illusion to happen. Sure. I wish I had taken a video of Chris watching it because he didn't

really know what I was showing him and then he just got ever more surprised. It was hilarious. There's something about the robot doing it that's just I don't know, it's delightful in a weird way. And it kept looking down like it wasn't sure what it was doing yes yes that makes me so happy because that's part of the emotion you know like the

straw eyebrow you know getting upset and then he's like looks up in surprise when it works you know like that's you know it's a the pandemic is a terrible thing but one of the beautiful things that's happened was like learning to express everything that i've learned with robotics over the past 12 years into someone's phone for 30 seconds. The emotion is a big part of my stage show. I have robots that interact with me, but to have it in a video where it does the whole trick was really fun. So that makes me happy, Chris,

because you're a magician at heart, dude, without a doubt. I know it because of that story that you said about Disney World or Disneyland or whatever, definitely. at heart dude without a doubt like i know it you know because of that story that you said about disney world or disneyland or whatever definitely and i do want to make sure the robot does the trick there's no video trickery here no there is no uh video trickery at all that take took me over a hundred takes uh videoing it over and over again i'm not lying like there's no it's all sleight of hand and you know what's funny like on reddit that that video took off and the argument was video editing

but thank goodness random magicians like being like no dude this is called the coin matrix it's a classic of magic like there's no video editing you know it was just funny like because that's a great example of what my goal is is to bring these two worlds together, this programming, engineering world with these magician worlds, this magic world together. And so that's been a fun thing with Automabot, was watching these two different worlds interact together through the comments. There's a lot of magic that's apparatus-based, like a trick deck or big contraptions. You know, everyone's seen like the big David Copperfield stuff or some of the stuff on Penn & Teller where there's just big chambers and things. That has kind of technology subsided inside it where you're not supposed to really see that technology is kind of involved.

What you seem to be doing is bringing technology to the forefront a little bit. It seems like a different thing a little bit it seems like a different thing a little bit yeah i am and i get in trouble for it you know and i don't care i i think a big part of life for me is is the whole open source nature of everything you know of all of humanity and i think the more and i and i'm not revealing like big stuff that's going to crutch other magicians. I'm revealing just good stuff, you know, like the magicians that I met when I was at that magic club. Like the idea is that the library is not the same anymore. It's not this physical library

anymore. Kids are learning on YouTube like they're learning virtually like there's all these new ways with technology that people are learning. And so like, yeah, I'm definitely revealing stuff. My robotics are exposed. But let me tell you something, Alicia and Chris, that I will confess is those cardboard hands on that robot. You can't cut, you know, like I have sneaky stuff built into those hands, but it looks innocent because it's cardboard, you know? So there's a lot of wiggle room for me to create new slights, like new ways to make things vanish and reappear that I wouldn't have with my own physical hands. So in some way, you know, it's, it's just fun exploring the innocence of the objects. Because when you see the robot, you're judging it already, like, what is this crappy looking cardboard robot? Like, why am I watching this? But then there's that strong

hitting magic that happens, you know, so that whole, you know, like lowering the audience's expectation is a very powerful thing that I've learned over the years. Like just having that low expectation when you seize an object, but then packing it with modern technology and cool stuff for it to do has been a real fun journey for me. Like, and it's been, I've been getting some good reward from that. Making the robot unapologetically cardboard also lowers the perceived barrier to entry. It makes it seem like other people could do it. Was that part of your intention? Well, yeah.

Well, now we're getting into the philosophy of why I've even chose children's magic and family entertainment over other entertainment is, is for me is accessibility. You know, I have a routine in my show with a bottle cap award ribbon, you know, so like, think about the oxymoron of that, you know, it's like, it's a bottle cap, that's the award, you know, because I believe with all my heart that all great art comes from the bottom up. That's how it is. It always comes that way to me. And and like, I think of Andy Warhol with the me. And like, I think of Andy Warhol with the humble tomato can. Like, I think of, you know, all kinds of stuff. I think

of Jean-Michel Basquiat and his attitude of painting, like dressing in big fancy suits, but barefoot and just tossing paint onto the canvas. Like, I love that idea of what is valued and what is not valued and playing with that in the sense that all of my objects are, I want kids to go home and say that they can make it themselves, you know? And so therefore, all of my objects are very recognizable. I'll give you an example. When I did a show in Chicago a year and a half ago, a kid came up at the merch table and yelled at his mom saying, Mom, I can't wait because when I go home, I'm going through the trash and building a magic show.

Yes. And that was the greatest compliment to me because I just that's how I want kids to go home, you know, when after they see my show. There's a wonder associated associated with magic, of course, but there's also this wonder of building something are you trying to drive home both or does one cause the other no i i think as a performer you like like we don't waste the audience's time you know like it's a sacred moment of of time that we have when they're seated and so you have to have that wonder.

That wonder's got to knock them out of the park. And then you can inspire them so that they can be those makers with cardboard and tape. And then they'll believe in it more, you know, because it's a mix. You know, it's like I feel sometimes like an infomercial salesman, you know, like where like my whole show is spent proving that I can do magic so I can spend the last five minutes speaking my heart, you know, and my philosophy on life, you know, like, where like, my whole show is spent proving that I can do magic. So I can spend the last five minutes speaking my heart, you know, and my philosophy on life, you know. And, and like I said, you know, it's, it's all a reflection of my own childhood of like, the things that I wish I had, I wish I had maker fairs to go to when I was a kid, I wish I had a

robotics class, you know, like people in my life that like, geared the arts to me, you know, like people in my life that like geared the arts to me, you know, that didn't happen till my late teens that I got introduced to some powerful teachers that inspired me. So part of my goal is really just being that wind that comes through a small town and having that one eight or nine year old see just something that sparks their imagination to do that one search on Google to get that Arduino or get that little scratch program opened up so that they can create what they imagine. I think that's the big goal is how can we have the freedom to create what we imagine and know how to use the tools that can get us there. When you were on Sesame Street, you did a trick where you actually showed how to do the trick. And doesn't that kick you kicked out of Magic Castle for revealing secrets?

You mentioned that you get in trouble for this. It's really like a really. I could tell you stories about the Magic Castle. I love the Magic Castle. That's like one of the most prestigious places in the world. Yeah, I got in trouble recently. You know, I had Make Magazine did a feature of a chapter in my book, The Maker Magician's Handbook, and I revealed how to force a card on an audience member.

And the way that I did that, the force that I chose, according to magicians, was like, wait a second, you're giving them the good stuff like this is something that we need to keep so that we can still create these great stories with our magic and and for me I'm like no I there's so many ways to do this routine and I'm thinking of of an eight nine year old hand and how they handle a deck of cards and what's the easiest way and the most fulfilling way that they can perform this trick um and and that and i based it on that and i published it and yeah i got some slack but at the end of the day like like i said my goal is to just i want to inspire the next

generation i don't care what it takes and i and i'm picking it not in some loose way where like i'm not thinking i'm thinking completely with every method I reveal on purpose because I'm just thinking of myself when I first got into magic. And the way that I became a magician was because of a few people in my life that revealed a few things, you know? Your book. Tell us about your book. So I have the Maker Magician's Handbook. It's printed through Make, Make.co, through Make Magazine. It's my first book ever. And what it is, is building a magic show at home.

And it's all using everyday objects. The guts of this book is my best lesson plans that I taught after school programs with magic. I did it for five years, five days a week at different schools. So in here, every chapter is the most rewarding routine that I was able to teach, you know, through, you know, elementary age and junior high. And we formed it into like this big, you know, this book so that

you can build a whole show from beginning to end. There's a lot of philosophy in it too, about the importance of aesthetics and the importance of having a backdrop and the importance of adding music to your show and what kind of music fits for what routine. So I'm really excited about it. And it's called The Maker Magician's Handbook and you can find it at mariothemagician.com. Sorry for the shameless plug, but yes. We invited it.

Back to Sesame Street. What was it like being on Sesame Street? It was the greatest thing for my career. I mean, it was like a dream. I got to perform with Joey Mazzarino and Peter Linz, like these masters, masters. You think of a puppet, you think it's like a child's toy. But then when you see Peter Linz put a puppet you think it's like a child's toy you know like but then when you

see peter lynn's put a puppet in his hand you can't take your eyes off the eyes of that puppet because he's mastered how to communicate with this inanimate object you know this object that has no life supposedly you know so being up close with artists like that was like a dream for me it was it was a powerful moment for me because you work so hard at what you do. And, and then, you know, and then one day, like they call you and you're on Sesame Street and you, and you do an episode and, and, uh, it was just kind of like my little college degree, like saying I'm on the right path, you know? And, uh, I'm still in touch with some of the puppeteers from that day. A few of them, you know? I can imagine that would just be one of those things that you'd put in a box

mentally on the shelf and be able to look at it anytime things are going wrong. I'm done. I did it. Alicia, I mean, you had to see when they're not using the puppets, there's like a table and the way they put them away is like you're at the MoMA museum. They're all displayed. Even the arms are positioned with custom stands. It was breathtaking and awesome. And I think that's the dream for all of us when we are engulfed in an art form, right?

Is to be among the people that do it best in the world and learn from them. So it was a fun little season. And I made some great connections with some people over the years from it. How did you learn how to do the electronics and the mechatronics, the software, the robotics, all these things that some of us have gone to school for a long, long time for? Yeah, I think when I first got into magic, the biggest, one of the most exciting things for me was Robert Houdin. He's a French magician that we call like kind of like the forefather of modern day magic, you know, and he was a watchmaker. And he built automatons. And basically what they are, we're like, mechanical objects that perform magic by themselves. So he would walk away from the object. And while he's speaking, this object would come to life like a little pastry

restaurant where someone named any pastry and then you'd watch this miniature dollhouse light up with a baker moving around and then a door opens and then boom, the pastry that was selected is the pastry that appears and stuff like that. So anyway, that was always something early on that really inspired me was how to build mechanical things. And long story short, Make Magazine, 2005, 2006, I pick up a magazine, I learned about the Arduino board. And the Arduino is just this blue credit card size board where you can program motors to move by typing in words and numbers. That's insane. That's insane. I mean, like, if you think about like an automaton and all the clockwork gears that go into it and all the windings and all the confusion here, you can learn a language that you type and you plug in a motor and the motor will obey the word language that you're typing. I quickly, I mean, I suffered two years. This is way early on YouTube. There was no tutorials.

Like I just suffered. I remember dreaming of code at night, like nightmare dreams of like trying to understand how to do this stuff. But after two years of hard work, I started to find freedom in it. And it's been real fun adapting my whole show where almost every element of my theater show

has robotics in it, you know? So it's been real fun climbing that mountain. As somebody who does robotics and occasionally does demos, theater show has robotics in it you know so it's been real fun climbing that mountain as somebody who does robotics and occasionally does demos they never go well how do you how do you deal with how to be better demo people teach us how to make our robots perform in front of people no i think that's you know i you bring up such a great question. And I talk about this in my lecture with magicians. You have to like utilize the weaknesses of what we have and make it a strength in the sense that for me, my weakness is when my robotics fail, you're totally right. They fall apart. Like Katie, my wife will tell you like I spend half of my time fixing the robotics, you know, after my shows than I do actually performing, you know. But that's part of the tradeoff. That's part of having things that look like they're going to fall apart.

I guess that's part of all that. But I think what's happened over the years organically is that most of my robots fall apart on purpose on stage. It's a feature, not a bug. No, it is. Now it's totally this complete feature if you see my show you'll see that like you know 70 to 80 percent of the robots that are on it do something that break you know like so so i've learned to adapt it in a humor you know in a way that's entertaining you know do you have any stories about dealing with the technological failure before you learned to perform it was a big deal for me it was my first time uh lecturing for magicians and performers and i have a robot monkey named marcel in my show he's all 3d printed robotic

we do three minutes of theater and here i am it's the gala night the lights are all on me the lights are dim there's like you know 70 magicians all sitting there with their arms crossed. Like, who is this guy? Right. And and I and I go to plug in this board, you know, the Arduino board. And as I'm plugging it in and my ground wire snaps and that means the monkey is not going to work, you know, and I knew it. And the sweat just started pouring on my forehead as I'm looking at this robot with the music playing and I'm not in rhythm anymore. And so what do I do?

I put the robot down. I grab my rings that are in my bag and I go to Whit Hayden's four ring routine. That's a core principle of magic, a classic of magic. Every magician knows that routine, but that's what happens. You have to have a plan B. So I never have just robots. I always have my pockets full just in case. And yes, it wasn't the top-notch performance that it was supposed to be, but yes, I didn't fail. Like I learned, you know, and now what did I do?

I hot glue both ends of that freaking ground wire so it will never snap again you know yes i mean that's a truth of all performing is something's gonna go wrong i mean the number of times i went to gigs and forgot something important for my drum set was like there's always one stand that had one piece it wasn't there i did a whole gig on a wooden bench. My butt hurts so bad after two hours. Oh, no. That's crazy. Yeah, exactly, dude. It doesn't matter. Drummer, magician. You said something interesting that I want to go back to a little bit. It was about typing words and having the motors move and do stuff. I had a physics professor and I just remember one thing he said, it was just in the middle of lecture.

He just, he just looked at the board and there was a bunch of equations up there. And he said, we're all sorcerers. Look what we do. We put these weird incantations on, on the blackboard and, and it describes and makes things happen in the world.

And I think, I think there's a kind of actual real magic about typing magical incantations and having motors move. I think, I don't know. It just resonated with me. No, it's well said, man. And it's so true. Like, we get so comfortable and we forget, like, the magic of things so much.

I mean, I think that's why religion and having faith, you know, in something bigger than yourself is so important. It's a reminder constantly of, like, that there's magic everywhere, you know in something bigger than yourself is so important it's a reminder constantly of like that there's magic everywhere you know and once we start forgetting that like we we our imagination stops it's like and i i try my best to like condition my mind like that constantly like reminding myself like the beauty of just like you said like that teacher like man that teacher was living in the moment right that's why it hit you so hard you know he's literally living in the moment he's taking a step back from his class his lesson and just like having a moment of understanding the beauty of life like right here right now you know and it

really feels like that with programming and and it's been it's just been fun like just experimenting during the pandemic like this automa bot you, I would have never built that if, if the world was just normal, I would still be in the hamster wheel of doing five shows a week and not having time to do that. But yeah, it's been a fun, it's been a fun season of me reminding myself of how beautiful that is.

One of the things you've been doing during the pandemic is videos, including those with Piff, the magic dragon. Tell us about piff oh man you know piff is he's man well we we all have like geniuses you know like like we all have some special gift and i think the first thing i realized with piff like just filming you know like because some of those videos we filmed for like an hour you know is Piff is just always on like he's always funny and he just knows like he has that wit where like talk about living in the moment like I was just saying like he like all the callbacks you know with like comedy like the whole callback theme

you know like it's like that with magic too where you just constantly call back something that just happened um he's just so smart he's definitely one of the smartest people i've ever met he's funny as hell and uh i feel really lucky that i i've had a couple episodes where i got to work with him he's a genius dude you know and like that and that's what it takes and he talks about that we did a lecture together for magicians two weeks ago at tannin's magic camp and he opened up about that because one of the kids asked him and said how did you learn to be so funny you know and and piff said it was a lot of work and he described it like you do a show you make a mistake someone heckles you you go home and you think about all the things you should have said. And then you write them down. And then a week goes by two weeks of shows. And then the same exact mistake happens again. And now you have this written down that you memorize and you say

the joke and you get the laugh. And he's like, just think of that times a million, you know, and, and it's beautiful. And it's true. You know, I, I'll tell you one last thing is my favorite lecturer was Aldo Colombini. He was an Italian-American magician. He passed away, unfortunately. But what I remember from his lecture was the moment he put his feet on stage. I everyone was just crying, laughing for like an hour. He made every single person laugh the whole way through. And then when he was done with his lecture he went to his merch table

and i went to talk to him and i was dying to talk to him because he's italian like me you know his first language is italian just like me like you know all my family's in italy on my dad's side i can't wait to connect to him and he and it was like he couldn't connect like normal situations because he is so um ingrained in this genius of performing in front of audiences so consistently, so much that it's like you obsess your life in this one direction of connecting that almost in other ways you're having difficulties in connecting. I don't know if that makes sense, but like, I feel that in myself, my own performances, you know, like where you put your whole heart in such a certain direction of socializing and direction that you almost start forgetting the other ways. But anyway, I got offended in the moment,

but as I walked away, I admired him more, you know, for giving up part of his life so that we could have these memories years later, you know? I think that's what it's about. And I think people like Aldo Colombini, people like Piff, people like these great magicians like David Blaine, like they've dedicated a very specific part of their life so that we can be inspired you know i hate to be cheesy i'm sorry i it's just it's important like i talk about you know i just it's important

uh with piff you do this uh series where you make things uh and, well, actually, could you describe it? There's no way I'm going to do it justice. Yeah, yeah. So it's called Piff and Mario Make Things. And it's been so much fun. Like he, so like, we're just, we both have very, very strong characters, like different kinds of personalities.

And it's been so fun exploring. So basically I'm trying to teach Piff how to make robots and craft projects you know so and uh it's just like a fun journey like you know talking to him and like you know the supplies we need and all this stuff and it was all organic like we just did it for fun as one video and we got a lot of positive feedback and and from there we just continued making more and uh and it's just been it's it's a like we end up making each project so you can make them at home. But it's just it's just watching Piff make these objects is what makes it so good. Like the way he goes about with simple objects like scissors, you know, like a glue stick, you know, like stuff that we use every day that's so normal yeah exactly like we had to like cut a cup in half you know but instead of getting a knife you know piff gets a drill and he's like

slamming this drill where he's barely you know he's almost cutting himself up you know like and uh yeah so talk about committing to the bit like piff is just gold with that he's been on penn and teller's Fool Us that's how we were familiar with him do you think that show has made a big difference to the magic community um you know it's this past decade it's beautiful to see how much magic has been elevated from this like slower art form to like this this highly this thing that we value, you know, highly. And I think shows like AGT, Penn and Teller, Fool Us, you know, like these stages where the world can watch you and your art have done nothing but good, you know. And I mean, you know, it's, it's,

it's amazing watching careers like Piff, you know, where like he's on Fool Us, then on AGT and just kills all the way through, you know, and setting, you know, trailblazing through to get his own theater show in Vegas. I mean, that's a great example of what can happen with these roads that you take. And, you know, it's yeah, I think it's I think it's important, you know, shows like that definitely definitely elevate our art form you've said art a couple of times and i i think about magicians requiring dexterity and comedy skills and public speaking and for people who design their own tricks engineering design and building schools or building skills is that all part of art or is art an additional skill in that list have you guys watched ted lasso at all or no oh my god i love that show so you know like the character that's like you know soccer is life

you know like art is life art is life you know art is life you know because art is life, you know, because art is so big. It's so much bigger than everything, bigger than all of us. You know, I think the core principle of art is connection. You know, it's connection. When my son was like six months old, like I remember like my wife gave me my son and I'm holding him and she's like, you got to put him to sleep. And I was like, there's no way. And I'm and I'm rocking him and he's moving around like crazy. And I know he's tired and he's upset and he's cranky. And every time we made eye contact was the only time that my son started dozing off. And then the second he shook

his head and looked away, he was back to going crazy. Like human connection, you know, that's where all the releases that's where like, where the magic happens, you know, and however we can get to connecting. That's art, you know, and if it's from a joke and you master how to say a joke, that's art because we all laugh and we forget how crazy the world is, you know. And or when we see something beautiful, right, like a painting or like a multimedia sculpture or like a robot, you know, or a show or Broadway show, you know, like you feel the reason why we're alive. You're breathing in like that's art. Art is life. So just like the Ted Lasso character, I agree. Soccer is life. It's he's basically saying art is life, you know. Given who you are, you're clearly sort of extroverted. I imagine the pandemic has been really hard, both on your career and on your ability to connect with an audience. How are you handling it?

Yeah, it was, you know, it was, I count every day, you know, so it's been a long, yeah, it's been a long road. You know, the first, the first month, we got back in March, I think it was March 12th from a three month tour. And then we watched our calendar empty out in three days. And I and our whole all our living, all our living is based on the live performance, like the way we raise our kids, we rode school, you know, like, everything is the live show. So you can imagine how hard that was. And I think for a lot of performers, you realize where your happiness lies, too, is in your work, I think with anybody that has a trade or something that they enjoy, when that's taken from you, you know, it's like you got to reassess and rewire your brain. But the beautiful thing was, after a week or so of everything bad happening,

we went on live on Facebook, and I did a little punk rock dance party for kids with my guitar, which I've never done in my life. And but from that moment, we got two residencies, like one with Make Magazine, and one with another national brand. And we were able to go live once a week, and our paychecks started coming in. And then we developed a Zoom show for kids. And we've developed the Mario show. And so now I'm in the Zoom world so deep, and we're back, you know, in that. And yeah, it was hard. You know, it's hard. We all have, you know, like, I'll give you an I was extending my backdrop this morning on my lawn, because in two weeks, I will be performing in person again after all these

months. And I'm like crying like a baby. Because I'm so excited to just get back in the ring. You know, there's nothing like being in person somewhere, you know? I mean, think about when you go to a Broadway show or when you saw a great performance live in person. There's a reason why that stuff exists. It's the most beautiful thing, so I can't wait to get back. And yes, it was definitely difficult. Did you find yourself more drawn to the technology part to to creating designing new

uh illusions yeah so that's a this is another beautiful angle is that there's a whole new way of doing theater you know like zoom is amazing you know i would have never thought that like you can hack the tech in so many ways to your advantage you know where the screen becomes the the theater stage you know the camera is your curtain you can cover it with your hand and like no one sees the stage anymore you know and and shrinking all my robotics to fit the zoom screen you know like and 3d printing those designs so that now everything small plays big again you know so so now i have friends that are full-time performers like me they don't want to go back to in person you know they're like

they're so good at zoom shows that they're hoping that this will transition through where they can make their living and raise their kids just doing virtual shows and then you don't have to wear pants yes there's you don't have to clean up after you're done like i have all this cards and like robot crap every yes there's definitely benefits if somebody wanted well if somebody wanted to be mario the magician when they grow up what advice would you have for them? You know, like I say at the end of my show, you got to do what you love. You got to use everything that you have and you got to have fun, you know. And I think whatever those things are will define you, you know. And I think that there's the beautiful thing is there's room for all of us on stage.

You know, there's not just room for one person that does one thing. You know, we all have a unique way of connecting. So honestly, for me, it's like what has empowered me is learning 3D design, like Tinkercad.com. Like it's free if you have an internet connection. And get a cheap 3D printer. You can go on somewhere like Amazon and spend $200 or wherever. And they've dropped down in prices.

3D design, 3D print, and animate what you make. Get a microcontroller, plug in a servo motor, learn how to make a servo motor move. It'll change your life. It doesn't matter what business you're in. You could be a floral designer. It'll affect your life. Like learn how to 3D print things

and learn how to animate what you 3D print. It's definitely been one of the things that's changed my life. I actually want to ask you about that. Like what's your bag of, oh God. Go ahead, say bag of tricks. Come on, we're all waiting for it. And then ask him to pull the rabbit out of his hat.

What's in your tool chest? What are your go-to things? You mentioned Arduino server motors. Is that the bulk of it? And 3D printing, are you constantly adding new things? Do you like go to Adafruit and look around for, wow, what could I do with that? Or is it kind of a core set

of things and you've got you've got kind of you know your your your methods built around that core set of things yeah i mean when we were on the road which hopefully like our tour if you look at our schedule we're going to be back you know starting october we'll be doing theaters again so i i have i i talk about this in my lecture. I have a makerspace in a backpack. So I am like at a hotel room. I can just move the desk. I can have, I have my 3d printer. I have a small bag with a soldering iron, 22 gauge solid core wire. I have some solder. I have, um, uh, industrial hot glue, you know, I have, um have a bunch of boards, every servo that's in my show, I have a double of every part in my robots that I have that are 3d printed, I have a double of and Ziploc bags all, you know, organized. And so yeah, I definitely have these core tools that I use wire cutters,

wire strippers, you know, that I go back to. And then the beautiful thing is, like if I have to print big things, 3D printing is so popular now too. Like mostly anywhere we are, there's always a university or a library that has access to a 3D printer. And so that's been helpful too. With the Arduino stuff, do you look at new sensors and wonder,

what could I do with like a proximity sensor or I don't know, temperature, not temperature sensor, but all these things. Inertial navigation, accelerometer. And now my mind is spinning. I mean, you could make all kinds of very strange things. Or is it more about the engagement, less about the technology? Yeah.

So I think what I bring that's different is that i'm just thinking always performance when i look at all these engineering blogs and all these electronic blogs you know so i'll give you an example i have a little lamp that's in my show it's like a little pixar lamp it's called mr lamp and the way that i built it was from a university thesis or something that someone made a robotic lamp. And it's like a very slow moving video. You know, it's just this lamp that like moves and looks around this desk lamp, right? And then all of a sudden, the desk lamp turns itself off, there's a switch. And then the guy turns the switch back on. And then the lamp turns it off

again, I jumped out of my seat. Like I was like, this is a kid's magic trick. Are you kidding me? Like a Pixar lamp that turns off and then I turn it on and I walk away. And then it does it over and over again. That's a whole principle in children's magic. It's called look, don't see. It's a very strong way to connect with a younger audience where you do something. And when you walk away, something else happens. And then all the kids shout, you know, at what just happened.

And then you go back and you just repeat it over and over again. You drive all the adults nuts and you make the kids really excited. And you just milk this moment. So from that little moment with the desk lamp, I built a miniature robotic lamp. And I based the whole routine on that one thing that I saw from that video of just turning itself on and me turning the switch off and then the robot. And then I used core principles of magic, the cups and ball trick, you know, things that I know work in a routine.

I packed that all into the robotics and into the programming. And then I developed this three-minute routine with it. And so, yeah, I search blogs constantly trying to find little moments with tech that I know could be entertaining or funny. And from there, I'll try to do my magic side of my brain, you know, research, how can this fit into a magic routine that exists already? Now you've got me thinking about it. Last week, we talked to Leah, and she introduced us to really small stepper motors, like really a couple millimeters. And since then, I've been like,

well, that's really cool, but what would I really use it for? And then I'm thinking about one of your YouTube videos about the bristle bot, the piffle bot, the thing where you put it on a cup and it jiggles around. Yeah, the little draw bot. With a little tiny motor, you could do some pretty fun stuff like that with little tiny things. Oh, totally.

At least, I mean, like you could stick it in a matchbox. Imagine if you had a little analog clock or something that spins to the perfect number that someone picks. I mean, there's so much you could do. And those stepper motors, I know what you're talking about. Those are so amazing. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, I think every time I see technology for the next week,

I'm going to be like, I wonder how you could use that in a magic thing do you call them illusions or do you call them magic tricks that's a great yeah i don't know i guess what i guess a micro illusion could be such a magic trick or magic routine you know um uh i guess it yeah it doesn't matter it all flows in a certain sense. One thing that just came back to mind, you were talking about when you first got started and you went to the club with the old guys and there's sort of like a, not an initiation,

but there was an event there that brought you into the fold a little bit. There's a lot of gatekeeping in technology where people say, oh, you haven't done the due diligence, you haven't paid your dues to do what you're doing in technology. You can't be, you're not a real engineer and this kind of stuff. And I feel like what you were talking about with the magic tricks and revealing things, there's a little bit of that too, like, well, you aren't ready to know how this trick works. How do you, I guess the question I have is, you've experienced that.

How do you push through gatekeeping or people telling you, no, you can't do this or you shouldn't, you're not ready for this? Yeah, I mean, it's a tricky, delicate thing, you know, because we all, no matter how we admit it, we're all thin skinned, you know, so like any type of like criticism or something can definitely like affect you emotionally and all that. But I think what's important is that, you know, I talk about this in my lectures, like, who are you and why are you here? You know, these two questions always ring to me, you know, like knowing who I am and why I'm here, you know? And, and for me, like, as long as my goal is always centered around my strengths, which is just inspiring kids to make and get into magic. It makes it a lot easier. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of annoying, you know, like when Arduino came out in the beginning, man, the old school engineers were pissed, you know, like they just had every reason why this is a lazy way to like program. you're not really programming, you know, and look, I'll tell you, I have an old

Volkswagen bus in 1971. You know, you have like, you know, there's modern ways to make that motor tick, you know, and then you have the traditionalists are like, I'll never put that in my bus, you know, I need to like adjust everything, you know. So it's like, we all have that. And I think it's just part of like, you know, identity, like, you know, these people identify with a certain piece of tech because they've had it their whole life. So it's really difficult for them to see a change too, you know, because maybe they feel lost seeing that new change, you know, and they're trying to keep on with that identity. So I can respect that in some sense, you know. But in the other sense, we got to be flexible, you know, because every year new tech is happening that we could that makes this program easier. And, and like I said, the goal always is like, create what we imagine,

let nobody rob you of your imagination. You know, Dr. Mae Jemison, I was just talking about that with a group, you know, that's a powerful statement, like our imagination is everything. And the sooner that we can build what we imagine, no how we build it i think it's the better you know but look i i i agree like yes it's important gatekeepers yes of course and like i've changed parts of my book because i realized i'm revealing too much you know because we don't we need our daily bread you know like there's like an old he you know there's a whole saying about like don't, we need our daily bread, you know, like there's like an old, he, you know, there's a whole saying about like, don't feed me too much because then I'll curse you, you know, but don't feed me too little because then, because then I'll abandon you, you know, like, like you need that daily bread, you know, that, that you, that keeps you coming,

you know, and I think that, that philosophy can be adapted to everything, the way you perform a song, the way you perform on stage. We have to constantly feed our audience something just enough to keep them watching and listening and appreciating. So your book and putting enough in to keep people engaged, but not so much that you're losing your own ability to make a living. Or to take away people's imagination, like you said. If you just give everything to them, and there's no thought for themselves. What was it like writing that book? Do you do a lot of writing? Not really.

I do a lot of talking, as you can see. No, I mean, I just, you know, like my life always has been jamming. You know, I love philosophy. I love talking, you know, spirituality. I love all that stuff so much. I just, you know, that's why I used to play a lot of music in my 20s. Like I love all that stuff. But as far as writing goes, no, I don't do a lot of writing.

But what was cool was learning how to write, you know, and learning how to speak what's on my heart and put it into words. And yeah, so the book is kind of like kind of like a like a bare bones structure of how you can create a show with objects at home. But then like leaving room with like the philosophy of like, hey, like if you love punk rock music, man, then like then like put punk rock everywhere on your backdrop. Like whatever makes you feel like you know who you are. punk rock music man then like then like put punk rock everywhere on your backdrop like whatever makes you feel like you know who you are so you have that confidence on stage do it you know there's a lot of that in the book like just like writing a list down of what your deep interests are outside of magic and how can you adapt those deep interests into your magic you know stuff like

that and uh and it was just fun because like like you guys said, you know, like during the pandemic, you lose so much and having this book get published for the first time was like a light at the end of the tunnel. Like it just it brought a lot of hope to me and watching families build these projects at home was really fun and inspiring. With your magic, the technology is usually quite obvious, or it some technology is intended to be obvious. But I know with other forms of magic, the technology is more hidden, but there's still a lot of engineering in some of those big illusions or big stage step pieces. Yeah, yeah. How do other magicians or other designers get into that sort of a field of being able to design tricks for people?

Yeah, and now that's where the water gets muddy. You know, that's where everything gets gray because there's a lot of beautiful secrets in magic, you know, and secrets that have been kept for hundreds of years, like still that are used today that can fool people so deeply. And I think that's part of why there's a lot of, you know, people are very scared when material comes out and stuff. But yeah, there's, you know, this is where it gets muddy. You know, I don't know. Like, I don't want to say I know there's some amazing makers in the magic community.

And there's some beautiful, like rich gimmicks as you get into magic and you join a magic club and people reveal stuff to you. I think that's part of the pull for me, too, because I just love mechanical things. And like and the more I got into magic and learning like the history of like how we can fool an audience with an object and the mechanics behind it was just so fascinating. Um, but yeah, like you said, Alicia, like a lot of my robotics are exposed, but the beauty of it is I'm not going to lie. I mean, there's a lot of robotics that are hidden, you know, like fake buttons and fake wires and like, you know, that's what makes it, that's what makes it fun. And it goes back to what I was saying with aesthetics too, like knowing who you are, why you're here.

Like, I don't know if you heard of the artist, Tom Sachs. He's been around a long time, but I love his aesthetics as an artist. And so you'll see some of that style in my robotics, the way they look and stuff too. So I think it's important to always keep the things that you love in mind as you create, because it'll make you, it'll just give you that confidence, especially when you're standing in front of an audience to be around the things that you love. Are there people who aren't, let me try that again. Are there people who aren't, why can't I speak?

Are there people who aren't, are there people who are not performers who are designing tricks and selling them to performers is there like an engineering community of the behind the scenes people or is it mostly the performers themselves designing tricks and stuff yeah i mean wow you guys want to know the secrets man you don't have to tell me anything you don't want to tell me i'm just curious i love it i love it no he just wants to be the person who designs the dress. I'm looking for a job. I love it. No, honestly, yes.

Just like, yes. A hundred and ten percent. There's people that are just strictly makers for the magic community. We're like, oh, you need that? Then you've got to call. This is the guy. This is the person. That's all he does, you know?

There's a garage in greenwich connecticut they're called the fricia brothers their family business all they do is service air-cooled volkswagens you know and like it's amazing like they're like the only ones in the northeast so people are driving their hippie buses from like vermont maine like all to go to this one garage you know and and i love it. And like, and like, I had to get my generator changed out of my Volkswagen because it wasn't charging anymore. So generator is like an alternator, you know, it charges the battery. And the only way to take the generator out is by removing the whole engine, you know? So I'm a maker. I don't want to do that. I

can't do that. So I go to Fritjof and, uh, they, they fix it in three days. I come back and I'm like, Dave, dude, thank you so much. Like, how did you do this? Like, you have to take the engine out. He's like, no, I don't want to take that. He's like, listen, I got my own tricks. I have no idea. I have no idea how it's impossible.

Like I had every wrench and angle and like trying to get this generator out. There's no way you could take the generator out without taking the engine out. But like, you know, I like what I'm trying to say in the bigger picture is there's niches. Like there's people that have very specific skills for very specific objects to create magic. And if you're really interested, Chris, you know I'd hook you up, dude. So like there's definitely community boards and all kinds of blogs that people follow for that stuff. You actually have another book coming out. Yes.

And I'm so excited about it. The first book, maker magicians handbook is all everyday objects to create magic. And this is geared more for like elementary age, you know, and families. But the second book that's coming out, I think I'm allowed to say the title.

It's going to be possibly called robot magic. It should be out in December, hopefully in the fall or I mean, in the winter, you know, and and it's seven routines like full robotic DIY routines that perform magic with you. So it's an exploration of sleight of hand and robotics. And I really put like I put my strong stuff in there, you know, and I I'm really excited about it. And so basically what's so cool about it is that all you really need is like an Arduino and two servo motors. And you can build most of everything in there and a couple LEDs.

And I did that on purpose, you know. And as far as like all the measuring goes, a lot of the cuts are like using a playing card box as your measuring stick. You know, so like you're literally tracing, you know, I'm trying to make it fun with the way that you make it too. So it's not just this two-dimensional tutorial, you know? Well, I'll just put that on Christopher's Christmas list right now. I'm pretty sure he'll want it. I only have one more question.

Chris, do you have more questions? Go ahead with yours and I'll think. What card am I thinking of? Ace of spades. Come on. No, sorry. Four of diamonds. Nobody thinks of the four of diamonds.

That was my second guess. That was my second guess. She's lying. She's lying. Well, since you didn't get the four of diamonds, we aren't going to ask you any more questions. Other than, do you have any thoughts you'd like to leave us with? No, I just, I think, like I said earlier,

I think the most important thing for me, the big takeaway for me, even in my show, is the importance of doing what you love and using what you have and having fun, you know? and don't ever be afraid of asking for help. You know, when there's something that you want to learn and you don't have all the know-how for it, everything that I've built, you know, there's always another person that took their time to help me that came from a maker fair or from some type of tech blog that I was following. So that's it. Do what you love, use what you have, and have fun.

And thank you so much, Alicia and Chris, for having me on. It was just so much fun talking and jamming with both of you. It's been a great time. It's been a joy. Our guest has been Mario Marchese, a.k.a. Mario the Maker Magician. Find out more on mariothemagician.com, where you can also find his tour schedule, which

might possibly include a giant inflatable rabbit, but we can't say more. You can also find his YouTube channel, his Instagram, and a link to his book, The Maker Magician's Handbook, A Beginner's Guide to Magic and Making. And of course, the links will be in the show notes. Thanks, Mario. This was fun. Thank you so much. Thank you to Christopher for producing and co-hosting. Thank you to the Embedded Patreon Slack group for pointing me towards Mario's videos. And thank you for listening. You can always contact us at show at embedded.fm or hit the contact link on Embedded FM. And now a quote to leave you with.

This one's going to be from So You Want to Be a Wizard by Diane Duane. Believe something, and the universe is on its way to being changed, because you've changed by believing.