Empire: World History - 147. Queen Victoria: Empress of India (Ep 4)

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

In 1877 Queen Victoria took on the title Empress of India, a nation which she undoubtedly had close to her heart. Yet, under her reign and that of her successors, India was exploited. At the same time, she takes Abdul Karim, known as the Munshi, into her court. Many of her courtiers despised this Indian man and his influence, but Victoria stuck by him. Undoubtedly, Empire was central to Victoria and she saw it as a force for good, but how do we see that and the rest of her reign now? Listen as William and Anita discuss Victoria’s final years and her legacy. Twitter: @Empirepoduk Email: [e-mail] Goalhangerpodcasts.com Assistant Producer: Anouska Lewis Producer: Callum Hill Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you want access to bonus episodes reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat community. Discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast, add free listening and a weekly newsletter, sign up to Empire Club at www.mpower.com. Hello and welcome to Empire with me Anita Arnan. And me, William Durhampool. And this is the final episode on Queen Victoria. Previously on this podcast, we left you with two seismic events, or three seismic events, in fact, in Queen Victoria's life.

We had the great exhibition which secures Britain's place as the world's superpower in the eyes of Britain and the world. We had the mutiny, the First War of Independence in India in 1857, and how that changes in at least in India the image of British rule. And also how Queen Victoria is out of step, you know, that girl who would not be told by her privy council what to do and what to say and to make John Conroy her advisor, is the same woman who sort of flies in the face of all of these demands of retribution and says, actually, you know what?

No, stop. That's not what I want. I think one of the things that we see at this point as the great exhibition is reaching its climax is this is also the moment when monarchies are at their absolute peak. It isn't just that empire is at its peak in 1851. This is the moment when so much of the world, is ruled by monarchs, and many of them related by marriage or otherwise to Queen Victoria.

At this point, if we were to do a survey, you have the Romanov's in Russia that we looked at last year in our Russian series. You've got Louis-Napolian in France, Franz Joseph in Austria, Hungary, followed not long after by the Willamian imperial monarchy of Germany. to these continental empires were added overseas annexes, the Portuguese in Brazil, the French in Mexico, will be it briefly, and the Dutch and Indonesia. Only the Spanish colonial empire is in retreat. So this is the heyday of vicerical rule. But what happens in 1857, a few months later, as we saw in the last episode, is this moment when this is all punctured by the largest act of anti-colonial resistance in history, the 1857-28 Indian Mutiny or First War of Independence.

And then finally, you know, we left the last episode with her grieving for Albert, the love of her life, and willing to give up everything, you know, willing to give up all of her sense of duty and service and ideas of being Queen of England, something that she fought so hard to make mean something after he dies and being lost, really. And it's only when her son's life is threatened by the same illness that takes his father ten years. years before. And he survives and there is this great ceremony of thanks at St. Paul's Cathedral where people turn out in enormous numbers to cheer the Queen where she sort of wakes up and thinks, actually, my people are here and they love me and they need me. And it is, you know, she's back. She's back. But it's a difficult time for her because she has to enter that public

arena where he was always by her side. And she does become, apparent, you know, becomes very clear that she's somebody who needs someone to prop her up. And she finds that. She's lonely. It's not unusual for human beings. Yeah, they're on their own. No. And, you know, she finds great comfort in your part of the world, William Durembert.

Who is it that gives her that propping up? She most certainly does. This is, of course, a reference to John Brown, memorably played by Billy Connolly in yet another Queen Victoria movie, one we haven't mentioned it. and John Brown was originally Prince Albert's Gilly, which is a kind of Scottish outdoors man-servant, but one who particularly specialises in fishing and in stalking. And they soon become very close friends.

He was described as having a magnificent physique and was a loyal friend and confident to the royal couple before Albert's death. But after his death, Victoria and John Brown grow close. And she was well aware of the rumours that accompanied their relationship. Well, they used to call a Mrs. Brown, which is famously the name of the film. But it's not just his physique. You know, obviously he's good-looking. And she does like a pretty man around her. But she's always appreciated that.

But she says, you know, about John Brown, he is so devoted to me, so simple, so intelligence, so unlike an ordinary servant and so cheerful and attentive. You know, he was exactly the kind of person who just wouldn't have her, moping and basically had the guts to sort of break out of his role as being merely the gilly to actually say, you know, buck up woman. Yet she has a title, which is the Queen's Highland servant on £120 a year. And it's funny because it doesn't actually, you'll see this time and time again when she makes a friend in a lowest sort of circle than her own, a lowest social circle that those around her courtiers, they do not like it. They don't like it at all. They don't like it.

They don't like it at all. There's no question that the other courtiers are jealous and so on. But there's also some suggestion that there really might be some emotional attachment. Well, she's so much older than I don't think it can be a sexual thing. I mean, I was sort of looking back at it. But she does like a man who is devoted, as Albert was devoted, as Dilip Singh for a while was devoted. And then clearly that goes to hell.

But John Brown is also devoted. And she appreciates that. She needs that. She feeds off that. And, you know, one dare say, I suppose, there is love. Love can be without sexual love, I suppose, because there is an age difference between these two. He is young. He is vital. He is life itself. And she's been sort of yanked out of grief and sadness. And that's what she needed. She needed life itself. She needed someone who's cheery and drag her out of her, drag her out of her misery. So when he finally dies, she writes, the comfort of my daily life is gone. The void is terrible. The loss is. irreparable. There's another moment of mourning when John Brown dies in 1883. It's really interesting because grief has become a familiar friend now with her. Do you know, one of the people who's sent to counsel her out of her grief, so interesting is Tennyson, Alfred Lord Tennyson,

who is the poet laureate at the time. And he, you know, there are lovely accounts of him sort of being told to go and visit her and say soothing words. He's like, I don't know what to bloody say. Like, he's quite a nervous, shy man. I don't know what to say. to the woman. Then he sort of sits there and in his silence she finds solitude. He's another of those sort of fantastic looking Victorians. Yeah. So she doesn't mind his company. You know my lovely, my great aunt, Julie Margaret Cameron, the photographer, she photographed him endlessly and she'd always make him dress up with sort of a crown on and shove him in a boat and make him, you know, kind of lance a lot, that somebody

else would be given him a sword and he'd be the lady of the lake and King Arthur. And he had, he had that fantastic sort of leonine Victorian look, which I think very much appealed to Queen Victoria, who, as we know, was someone who appreciated a good-looking chap. Yeah. You know what? I just found a quote, actually, from her about him. She's recalling to John Brown's brother what he meant to her. His name's Hugh Brown. And after he dies, She says, he had pledged to care for her until he died. He had said, and she quotes this, you haven't a more devoted servant than Brown.

And Victoria said afterwards, so often I told him no one loved him more than I did or had a better friend than me. And he answered, nor you than me. No one loves you more. So that's, you know, that's from her hand, from her pen. Which also enraged this, you know, her staff. Like what the hell? Who let him in?

What private I would call Sir Alan fits tightly, gets upset by this. There is somebody, though, who is able to cheer her, even though, you know, she's lost Brown. By the way, she has a life-sized statue of him erected in the house in the grounds of Balmoral. So statues of him start popping up everywhere. It really pisses off her son, Edward, who, you know, quite understandably, it's like, he's a gilly, he let a pony around. What are you doing, mother?

This is so embarrassing. But nevertheless, she does. know somebody else she's utterly charmed with is Disraeli, who is her prime minister, is everything that Gladstone is not. So, you know, what does she say about Gladstone, William, remind us. That talking to him is like being addressed at a public meeting. Yes. So whereas he's really former, by the way, he finds her just as insufferable. He writes very many rude things about her. What does he say? Oh, God, there was something where he said just spending one day in her company is like a lifetime. I'm sort of writing about the tortures of having to go and talk to him. You know, he knows she doesn't like him,

He doesn't particularly like going to see her, but does really revels in it because he's a charming man. He's read books. He knows poetry. Writes books. Wright's book. He's a flatterer and he's a lover and he's all of those things. I mean, he's not sort of her usual type. He's not sort of statuess and gilly-esque and he's not sort of like built like John Brown.

But he is somebody who knows how to make her happy. And it's under Disraeli, is it not, that this idea is floated, that she should become empress, of India. Tell us a bit more of that because that's a massive deal her becoming Empress of India. So it's a confusion at the beginning of it because she's not sure whether she is officially Empress of India or not anyway. Obviously, she thinks she is already. Yes, that's right. Yes, tell us about that. It's a great story. So obviously, you know, the British have, by the stage, conquered India, by the sword and by the Burnett, re-conquered it again in 1857, putting down the the Great Uprising, the mutiny, and she is regarded as the successor to the moguls in India.

And she has to write a letter, or rather her secretary, writes a letter in January 1873, saying, I am an empress in common conversation, and I'm sometimes called Empress of India. Why then have I never officially assumed this title? Which is a reasonable question, as she obviously did have an empire. And it wasn't like the Victorians to play down such things. No, but she also says, I feel I ought to do so and wish to have preliminary inquiries made. Thank you very much from Victoria. And this lands on Disraeli's desk.

So Disraeli immediately latches onto this and knows how to charm his monarch in no uncertain way. And in 1876, he felt he could no longer block Victoria from this. She became the Empress of the Jewel and the Empire's crown. and she, grateful for being elevated by an Israeli, gave him a peerage in return. So it's rather like, again, today, everyone's doing each other favours. Yeah. Well, she likes him. I mean, she's so grateful.

She describes Dysraeli as one of the kindest, truest and best friends and wisest counsellors she ever had. I mean, particularly because she gave her what she wanted, which was his grand title. We should perhaps give a pen portrait any turn of Dysraeli for those who don't know who he is. Well, yes, I mean, the only Jewish prime minister that Britain has ever had. I think he was officially during his prime ministership an Anglican, but then was heard on his deathbed saying the last Jewish prayers. And so I think he was forced by the law to suppress his Jewish faith. Are you saying he's a pretend, a pretend not Jewish?

A pretend not Jewish. But was very, his name was very Jewish. Benjamin? Very Jewish. and he made no secret of his Jewishness. But I think for legal reasons, he had to pretend to be Nankan while he was Prime Minister. Yeah, he really did know how to handle her, though.

When he talked about talking to Queen Victoria, he says everyone likes flattery, but when it comes to royalty, you should lay it on with a trowl. And he certainly did do that. He was very, very good. Is that actually a quote? Yeah, it's a quote. It's a quote.

I didn't know that phrase existed in the Victorian period. Apparently so, apparently so. And she also liked him as well. Well, you know, the Tories of which he was won, they had the Primrose League. And when he won the election, she sent him a bunch of primroses. From Windsor. From Windsor. Yes.

So, you know, she was, you're not meant to have any kind of political affiliation, but she certainly had a fondness for Disraeli. Anyway, so she's Empress of India. She's declared Empress of India. And there's going to be a massive party that's thrown for this, which is going to be called the Derbar celebration on the 1st of January 1877. And that is a major. I mean, can't stress what a big show this is going to be.

So this is held in Delhi to the north of Old Delhi. And there is a vast reams of scholarship being written about it because this is a kind of formal assumption by the British monarchy of the tradition of the moguls. They erect a pavilion that is built in the mogul style. And remember, this is only 20 years. after every last mogul prince was hunted down and hung after 1857, and the last emperor, Baha'u Shadha Zafah, is exiled to die in Burma.

And here, 20 years later, in Delhi, the city of the moguls, the city which represented the years of Muslim imperial in India, in the Delhi-Durba of 1877, she is publicly proclaimed empress of India. And there are two successive Derbar's that follow, 1903 and 1911. And these become even larger and more ostentatious occasions. So the massive Derbar is the Delhi Derbar of 2011, which is actually graced by King George V and Queen Mary. And that happens on the site now known as Coronation Park to the north of Delhi, which in the time that I've lived in that city has become sort of absorbed within the expanding. outskirts of the city. But when I first went there in the 80s and 90s,

Coronation Park was this strange, echoing monument to the end of empire, with these viceroys who'd be moved from prominent positions and roundabouts in the middle of Delhi, got moved after independence into a kind of semicircle around the statue of the king emperor. And what was quite amusing was that the lot of the viceroy's statues erected for these derbars, and at other times were done by public subscription. And some were popular and got done in marble, but some never had more than enough money raised for them to be made of sort of plaster of Paris.

And these are terribly decayed by the time that I got there in the 80s and looked rather like sort of lepers or people with terrible scruffiness diseases. But it's at this moment, if you like, in 1877, in the city of the Mughal Emperors, that the British monarchy assumes, absorbs, or appropriates, if you like, the forms of the moguls and the sense of gathering the moguls in an Indian Derba. So it's a strange act of claiming that we are the successors of this imperial power. We're something familiar to you, but this is how we run the

place and you'll be familiar and we're in charge and you might be familiar with the way in which way. Is this the one? I mean, do they start with the gun salute thing from this very first Derba? Because I know of it in the Curzon Derbara. Is that right? I don't know. I'm not sure. I mean, certainly in Derbars that follow.

You're right. I mean, certainly in the Curzon Derbar, every prince has to turn up with his retinue and has his own tent. They're all photographed by Samuel Bourne and there's these famous albums that you occasionally see in museums and galleries of the different Derbars. And every prince has his own number from, is it 51, which I think the exam of Hyderabad has, or the Maharaj of Kashmir, down to one or two for the Gulf states. Remember, the Gulf states, basically like Dubai and what's now the UAE are still part of the Indian princely

federation, and they have to turn up all the way from the Gulf. So, and these gonsolets, you know, the more bangs you have, bangs for your buck, the more important you are, certainly during the Kurson one. So, you know, you're setting the template. No, this is a permanent thing during the Raj. a huge snobbery about are you a 51 gunner or a 21 gunner or just a one gunner or none. And I think the now very grand and much-corted sheikhs of Dubai were no gun salutes, as opposed to some now completely penniless Indian Maharajas who had multiple gun salutes. From there, you've sort of got this, again, a reinforcement of the connection of Queen Victoria to India, because Empress of India is the title that means a lot to her.

And you know, you've heard the gratitude that she has to Benjamin Disraeli for giving her finally the title that she's been using anyway, by the way, for quite some time. But this is also the time when she starts to entertain Indian servants. Again, a problem for her retinue. So really from June 1887, two Indian Muslims come to work in her household in Britain. Because again, remember, you know, this close. this affinity she has to India. She will never go to India.

She will never see it with her own eyes. So India has to come to her bit by bit by bit. And we've talked about Dilip Singh. She also was a godmother to an Indian princess called Garama of Cook. We've talked about her previously. So Garama of Cook, again, it's one of these dispossessed Indian Maharajas who gives over his daughter saying, look after her, thinking it will curry favor. And he might get his lands back.

He doesn't get his lands back. and she dies horribly after being sort of marr—well, she sort of runs off herself. She's flighty and is a little too liberated for anybody's taste in the Royal Court of Victoria. And she ends up running off with actually the guardian of Dedeep Singh's brother, who is a right old sod, who basically leaves her pregnant and then runs off again. And so she sort of dies very young in pregnancy. It's all hideous for poor old Garama of Cork. But by 1887, she takes on Indian servants.

So it's not sort of these deposed princes and princesses, but these people to work with her. So again, I think she quite enjoys having the deposed princes and princesses around. It is like a kind of mined bar of minor royalty. Yeah. And she has a lot of their tastes are inspired by them when Duleep comes. A lot of the photographs at Osborne and the sketches at Osborne are inspired by those visits by him to Osbourne.

You know, her taste for curry. She loved a curry. We've talked about this in our curry mini-series. She liked the spices of India. It's on the menu, whether people eat it or not, every single lunchtime from this period. But we should talk about two of the servants in particular. One in particular. Let's talk about Abdul Karim, the 24-year-old from Lelitpur,

who's been working as a clerk in Agra jail of all places. And he sort of somehow comes to England and ends up working for the royal retinue. It's wonderfully random that, exactly. But he's pretty again when he was sort of 24 years old. And he catches the eye of Queen Victoria, and her children are pretty scandalised because they've just got over. Bloody John Brown has gone and all the gossip and the nonsense surrounding John Brown. They can't bear that. As far as the Bobbys Court is concerned, it can't get worse.

Oh, yes, it can. Because here is Abdul Karim. And he's sort of affectionately given the title. Is it by the Retinal Queen Victoria? I can't remember who exactly. But he's called the Munshi. That's his nickname, which means Clark. I think that's his title.

Yeah, she means, exactly, means clerk or teacher, and he teaches her uddu. I mean, he's given the title. Yes, it was, it was, his official title. And he does. She wants to take Urdu lessons. So she writes in her journal, and you see examples of her practicing, and she writes, I am learning a few words of Hindustani to speak to my servants. It is a great interest to me for both the language and the people I've naturally never come

into real contact with before. And he gives her lessons. He tells her about his childhood. He also very much overrecks who he is and makes himself sound a lot grander. He allows it to be known that he's this, yes, this very fancy sort of almost a Maharaja or something. And it turns out, as you say, he's just people working at the jail. Yeah. And, you know, her courtiers cannot wait to tell her that he's a liar.

He's a liar and he has too much control over you by half. You need to really see him for what he is. He's a chance. So let's get rid of him. But the more they talk him down, again, this is a woman who, will not have it, you know, just as before, she will not have it. And the attacks on the Munshi, they basically just make her closer to him. Henry Ponsonby, who is the closest to his private secretary to the Queen, is utterly in despair. And he so hates the Munshi. You cannot

believe how much he hates it. The advance of the Black Brigade, he writes, in brackets Kareem, is a serious nuisance. I was afraid that opposition would intensify her desire to advance further. Progression by antagonism, she says. Karim is given John Brown's old room. His portrait was painted against a background of gold. In October 1889, Victoria has taken him up to the remote cottage, Glacalt Shield in Balmoral, despite having sworn she would never spend another night there after Brown died. She frequently gave him trinkets of appreciation, which again drove her son in particular, absolutely frantic. Completely. I say, what are you doing, mother?

Mother, what are you doing? And we should say at this point, we should give a quick call out for our wonderful friend Shrabony Basu. Oh, yes, wonderful. And in one of the great works of detective work and literary tracking down, our friend Shrabini, who's from Calcutta, but now based in London, went to Agra and found the tomb of the Munchi and then worked. backwards, ask the people in the cemetery, does he have any relations? And they said, yes, just down the road, turned left. So she goes and knocks on their door, literally blind, having not known they existed more than an hour before. And she asks the family, have you got anything from the Munchy? And they say, of course, we've got a great chest full of stuff, all his letters and her replies.

It's an extraordinary fine, one that you salivate over the prospect. And she's such a nice woman. This could not happen. By the way, this Shropney is such a brilliant woman. I would normally resent and hate her for this, but she's so nice. I can only feel delighted for her. So this is the basis for the book, Victoria and Abdul, that became the brilliant Stephen Freer's film. Yeah. But for those who have only seen the film and not read the book,

we'd strongly recommend that you go and get it, because it's going to be available on our club, and it's one of the great, I mean, it's what exactly what Anita and I would kill to find. Yeah. a trunk literally overflowing with astonishing documents that everyone has seemed to gone. Because after the Munchy's kicked out and would come to that in a second, everything of his is removed from the official archives. Well, let's not jump ahead to that.

Because while he's there, you know, there is a theft. There is a theft that takes place. And everybody's finger points at the Munchy. And the person who most stoically defends him is Victoria, who will not have it. To the point, she's so angry that anyone should impugn her. loyal servant, her royal physician, a guy called Dr. Reed, who's going to be very important at the end of her life, because he's a talker, he has blabbered in places where people should not. So we know a lot more about Victoria's death than perhaps we should. But he says that she's quite off her head.

Really? The words he uses, off her head when it comes to the Munshi. I wonder what that meant in Victorian times? Well, I think much the same. Off ahead today for you and I, means that someone's been smoking some weed or nuts, isn't it? I mean, I would always think of it as just completely not in possession of your senses. But in 1897, Henry Ponsonby, again, who is, you know, is very sort of straight-laced and loyal and, you know, deeply responsible loyal servant to Queen Victoria writes. We have been having a good deal of trouble lately about the Munchy here. And though we've tried our best, we cannot get the Queen to realise how very dangerous it is for her to allow this man to see every confidential paper relating to India. The Queen insists on bringing the Munchy forward as

much as she can. And if it were not for our protest, I don't know where she would stop. Fortunately, he happens to be a thoroughly stupid and uneducated man, and his one idea in life seems to do nothing and eat as much as he can. It's a reference to the curries at lunch. Well, I mean, look, no matter what anybody said, she wanted to be with her Indian servants, and there's a really interesting reason for that. If you look at her diary entries, the reason. Because she's by this time, you know, she's old and she's frail. She's been sort of dilapidated by grief, but also by constant child there. Having nine children has taken a terrible toll on her. And she's sent a lot of pain. This is a woman who is in pain. Later, we

will learn that, you know, she's probably suffering from a prolapse uterus apart from anything else. And these gynecological conditions which are not well treated in those days and which a queen might shy away from telling a male physician about, she has suffered. And she likes the Indian servants because they don't, in her words, pinch her when they pick her up. They are the most gentle when they move her from room to room. They know how to be kind, she says. And we should say, very importantly, and something that Shrabini found in this trunk in Agra, she learns Urdu from him. She feels that she should learn Udu, and she's good at languages. She learned French and German when she's very young, and she's completely fluent in both.

and she makes, Shrabini tells me, very good progress and that there are Udu writing books in this trunk by Queen Victoria, which are pretty flawed Urdu. Yeah, not bad. Not bad. No, Shrubney was quite impressed, actually, by the progress. So she will stick by him, and actually, she will stick by him even after death.

I mean, you can tell that story now, because we're going to come towards the end of Queen Victoria's life, but just before we dispense with the Munchy's story, Even after death, why, they try and throw him out the day after she dies, don't they, from her, his home? So one of the pieces of ammunition that the courtiers have against Abdul Karim is that he has gone arrear. He had gone to Dr. Reid with a worrying complaint and Reid diagnoses this as gone a rear and immediately says that he must be removed from the Queen's presence. But even then, the Queen will not listen. And it's unclear how far they actually made it explicit what she'd done.

But they certainly say that he was dishonest and promiscuous, I think, was the charge that was made against him. Anyway, so look, it's time to take a break. After the break, let's find out. I mean, we're sort of coming to the end of a very great life. But not before we have not one, but two important jubilee celebrations, again, which remind us a victorious place in the world and her empire. Welcome back. So the date is now 1887, Victoria, age 68, and now the familiar figure we know in her widow's weeds with the veil, pretty old and quite plump, has to celebrate her golden jubilee, celebrating her being in power for no less than 50 years. Anita, tell us the story. Well, I mean, this is, again, something where she is doing it for the public face. And it sort of,

is a template that is followed even to this day, this great pageantry for a while she's been missing, but now boy, is she back in a big way, and she rides in an open-top carriage down the mall. She's escorted by troops of Indian cavalry. She insists on that. There are Union Jacks waving all over the place, huge fireworks display in the evening, which, you know, London ooze and ours about. There's a firework, but this feels so contemporary, a firework portrait of Victoria, 180 feet high, and two. 200 feet wide. And she's presented, you know, great ostentation, this commemorative necklace of pearls and diamonds, donated by, and it says here, three million daughters of the empire.

I find that I'm really fascinating, like donated by whom and how and when and how and why. But this is what happens. And it's a public event. She does it. She goes through it. But, you know, privately, she knows it's more of a duty than a pleasure. There are times when she enjoys this front-facing stuff. And as she gets older, and she gets, you know, things are more painful for her body, to be honest. She says, I don't want or like flattery, she says to her journal. That sounds very sort of Judy Dench, doesn't it? I don't want or like flattery. But Lord Halifax has insisted to her in his words, or in her words, that the public needs gilding for their money, basically bang for their buck. They need to know what is the monarchy for. And these public displays

are her show, putting on a show. So these celebrations, they do show the popularity of the Queen and the Royal Family. It's interesting. I mean, I'd always sort of assumed, without looking at it closely, that the Victorian period was the high point of monarchy, but as we've seen in these four episodes,

it goes up and down. Yeah, absolutely goes up and down. And they have to fight for it. They have to fight to get it back. They lose it, and they have to fight to get it back. Not once, not twice, but numerous times during the Victorian era. The spectator, anyway,

during the Golden Jubilee, says, you know, the public's attitude to the Queen has changed. It acknowledges the roller coaster ride. A change indescribable, says the spectator, but unmistakable, an increase of kindliness and affection, but a decrease of awe, is how they put it. It was sort of a friend of all who was welcomed rather than a great sovereign. So she's kind of moved to, dare I say it, Queen of Hearts status, you know, princess of the people we may have had with Diana. But here we have, you know, of the queen rather than somebody that you genuflect in front of. It's somebody that you actually love. And if you think of it, it's very much the Victoria of this period that you see in the

statues and in the photographs. When we think of Victoria, it is the Victoria of her Jubilee. She is that old widow, large, somber and curvaceous that's being depicted. It's not the young queen that we see. There are images of the young queen, but far more prominent, certainly in India, are these endless images of Victoria at this period in old age as this old familiar monarch? Absolutely. And why don't we just actually jump forward? I mean, a lot happens in between. But I think we're on to something talking about jubilees. So the diamond jubilee, I think, is even more notable. Because on the 23rd of September 1896, Victoria becomes the longest reigning English monarch. And she just notes it, this is how the difference between, you know, sort of your private life,

and your public persona. She has become that person who does it. You know, in previous times, you've had kings of England who, when they are pissed off, they raise taxes or whatever the capricious nature or whatever they're experiencing the day is reflected in the way that they rule. But there is now a duality, what you feel and what you do. So in her journal, when she goes through this milestone, you know, she notes it. And then she insists that any celebrations wait a year because it's just too costly and she doesn't want to spend that much money and let's just do it with the Diamond Jubilee,

which is coming a year later. But what's really, really interesting, so she is 77 at the time of the Diamond Jubilee. That's right, isn't it? 77 years of age. And she's thinking about her own mortality. You know, she's, by the way, life expectancy in those days was only 47.

Did you know that? I didn't know that. 47. 47, I looked it up. And most of her friends, most of the people that she's cared for are dead. the people that she's loved in her life or enjoyed their company. So she is lonely.

She's old. Her body is in pain, which is why she appreciates the kindnesses of her Indian servants. But before we get to the Jubilee, what's going on in her internal mind, this sort of what you show the world and what's going on inside. In December 1897, this is three years before she will die. She dictates a confidential private instruction for her burial, which she says should always be carried by the most senior person traveling with her open only upon her death.

And can I just say this is the brilliant work. You know, talking about Shrably Basse's brilliant work. This is the magnificent work of Julia Baird, who discovered all of this and had quite a tussle with the Royal Archives and the Palace because they did not want her to make it public. And they tried to stop her. They said, look, if you're going to use stuff in the Royal Archive, we'd really rather, you didn't use the Dr. Reed Archive, which she goes and tracks down. Dr. Reed is the physician.

And she actually says, no, I'm doing it anyway. Like a plucky journalist should. It makes such a good read, and I'm so glad that she did. So the instructions in the read archive are really very, very detailed. She has a long list of objects she wants placed in her coffin. And this is three years before she dies, okay? This is when the world is sort of at its peak of celebrating Victoria, the Diamond Jubilee year. And what she says is, on her hands, she wants five rings from Albert as well as rings from Fyodorah, her friend, from her mother, from Victoire Louise and Beatrice, so children.

She also wanted a plain golden wedding ring that had belonged to the mother of John Brown, whom she described in effusive terms. Brown had worn the ring for a short time, she said, but Victoria had worn it constantly since his death and wished to be buried with it on her hand. The finger was not specified. The Queen also requested that framed photographs of Albert and all her children and grandchildren be put in the coffin. She wanted, as she explained in detail, a coloured photograph of John Brown in profile to be placed in a leather case with some locks of his hair, along with other photographs of him, which she had carefully carried in her pocket and placed in her hand.

She asked for a cast, that cast of Albert's hand. Do you remember I told you that she slept with it by her bed so she could hold it at night and hold it in the morning? She'd kept it near her all her life. She wanted that to be put in the coffin as well. She wanted one of Albert's handkerchiefs and cloaks, a shawl made by Alice, and she wrote a pocket handkerchief of my faithful Brown,

that friend who was most devoted to me than anyone to be laid on me. And look, we'll get to the funeral and see whether they did it or not in the moment. But this is the year of the diamond jubilee that she is thinking about her death. Anyway, cut to the diamond jubilee. She's sitting in her carriage again outside St. Paul's. She can't manage the steps now. She can't really walk. She's pretty much carried everywhere.

There's a short Thanksgiving service. Thousands have packed the streets of London to celebrate. And this event is just linked to empire. It's front and center of the celebration. Do you want to pick up? Yes. Empire is now since the Great Exhibition, very much part of the Victoria package. She is seen not just as the Queen of England, but very much now as the Empress of India.

And part of that window dressing, if you like, is Indian and other colonial soldiers lining the root of the procession. And so this is very much a statement now at this point in her reign, she's not just the Queen of England, but Empress of India. and the centrepiece of the British Emperor. There's a lovely bit in the Daily Mail, have you seen it? It says, until we saw it passing through the streets of our city, we never quite realised what empire meant from the Daily Mail. And it adds breathlessly, only gods surpass the Queen in Majesty. But they don't realise either how close she is to death.

She's the only one, it seems, who sort of realises how close she is to death with all of these instructions. But anyway, she will sort of limp on for three more years, where her family, you know, she sort of almost pulls away. And she crosses into the new 20th century? Yes, she does. She absolutely does. She's such a figure of the 19th century, but she makes it into the 20th. She does withdraw a little bit. She's very judgmental of her son and heir, the future King Edward, Bertie, as he's called by the household.

She doesn't really want to see him. What's her problem with him? He's too frivolous, is she? Well, he's been frivolous in his life. She's not very fond of Alex's wife, Queen Alexandra, to be. She finds her sort of a pushy princess, and she just thinks he's a bit bossy, and he's been horribly rude about John Brown and horribly rude about the Munshi. And so they've got, you know, a terrible gulf between them. And she just finds him just annoying. She just wants him to be away. The daughter that she likes is very ill, Vicky. Is there a sense, do you think, that because she was educated alone and because she was never part of a class of schoolmates at a posh school, that it's interesting that her two big confidence at the end, both John Brown and the Munchy, are not from her class. They're not, you know, the posh aristones that you'd expect a queen to surround herself with. Maybe, but I think there's even more than that, which is why it's so important to look into the hinterland of a person.

The person she most detested in her younger life was John Conroy, who told her what to do and told her how to do it. And her mother who bossed her around, she cannot stand that. She can't stand anyone trying to sort of pull her strings, either by, you know, subterfuge or just completely openly telling her what to do, which is what Bertie, her son does. So she does withdraw. We should talk about the end, because we're coming to the end of her life. So she dies, Queen Victoria, dies on the evening of the 22nd of January 1901. Some say her last words were, oh, Albert, age 81, but I've heard other things that said, that she was too weak to talk. Why would she say that? It was, it's been improbable. Did she see his sort of ghost walk into the room?

I don't know. What's the idea? Also, when you just see those words, the way I read there was, oh, Albert. Albert. I just, I don't know. Some things are, oh, they just sound a little too. good to the tree. But what we do know is that she does want people to stay away from her. You know, she sort of keeps even Bertie away from her until the last minute and then he is allowed to come and see her. She just doesn't want to be hectic towards the end. She doesn't want her pushy Kaiser Wilhelm coming over and cluttering up the place with his sobbing and stuff because she just doesn't trust in that. So she gives very strict instructions that things should be quiet and calm. And the doctor,

Dr. Reid is constantly feeding information out as she's sinking. The queen is slowly sinking, he writes, and that is sent out from Osbourne House. And you've got a whole nation sort of like very quiet and waiting. At the end, she's in Osbourne. Is she? She's in the Isle of White? She is. Yeah. That explains why Tennyson is around at this point in daylight, because Tennyson also, of course, lives. Well, it's sort of a latter-day friend of hers. Yeah. She has her female attendance with her, but she's missing the people who are really, know her and love her. So there's no Munchy and there's no John Brown. She's sort of, you know, she's sort of surrounded by these sympathetic faces, but none who really know her, I think. So she's sort of

lonely and childhood and lonely at the end. Receeds back to the courtiers. She spent her life trying to avoid in many ways. And at five o'clock, you have all of these people who are keeping the watch who drop to their knees and the news goes out. The queen is dead. The queen is dead. Arthur Benson wrote of it at the time. It is like the roof being off a house to think of England, queenless. And that actually becomes a huge sweeping sadness that goes across Britain and indeed part of the empas. I mean, have you seen some of the stuff that came out from India at the time? Like real outpourings. I mean, Miles Taylor's really good on this, these great sappy eulogies, yeah. This is so counterintuitive because certainly the India, which I live in

now, not only is not interested in Queen Victoria, it's actively hostile and all the statues of Victoria with, I think, the one exception of the Victoria Memorial in Calcutta. We've seen it. You're absolutely right. Yeah. And yet, there's no question that there is this massive cult of her at the time, whether competitive, trying to show you're more loyal than the next in the aftermath of the massacres of 1857, trying to get in with the colonial regime, but that everyone is falling over themselves. Sugary prose written about her, you know, describing her as like a divine goddess in some cases.

I mean, when you look at it now with these eyes, it's all a bit odd. But some of the things really interesting about her funeral, I mean, she sort of gives instruction about, apart from all the things three years ago that she says, she wants buried with her family. Do honour them, but they sort of conceal the picture of John Brown that's in her left hand with a posy of flowers. They don't want anyone to see it. Her wedding ring is placed on one finger and all the other bits of jewellery. that were meaningful. They're all included in there. There's a lovely line of Miles Taylor,

where it says that towards the end, so persistent were Indian memorialists to the government of India, that they frequently had to change the rules and direct communication with the Queen so as to limit the traffic. At times, it seemed as though effusions of Indian loyalty did not require encouragement so much as containment. That's interesting, isn't it? But one of the really interesting things about her death

is she didn't want Black at her funeral. She wanted to be dressed in white, and she wanted everything to be white. So just as she starts this trend of being married in white, she wants white simplicity. Her funeral was held on the 2nd of February. She's laid to rest beside Prince Albert in the Royal Muslim in Windsor Great Park. And at the end of her life, she has reigned for 63 years, seven months and two days, the longest reigning British monarch. And during that rain, I mean, let's just think back upon it, William.

You've seen the ring fencing of the British monarchy. as a constitutional one, you've seen Victoria still attempting to influence politics and foreign policy, especially when it comes to India and empire with all of the stuff that she says to Canning and others. You also, though, have some of the greatest excesses of empire happening under her reign. You have all of those sort of clashing interests that she, you know, and it's all very confusing. You know, on that hand, she's raising money for famine. On the other hand, you know, under her government famine is happening. You've got Albert presiding over anti-slavery societies and yet a lot of people in her name

treating Africans in their own continent as lesser humans, although she says, no, be kind. And as we said at the beginning, many monarchies fall at this period to create this empire in which the sun will never set. It is built over the ruins of earlier monarchies and earlier local allegiances and national her reign marks the ends of mogul rule after three and a half centuries. She sees in 1857 to eight the worst war crimes ever committed by the British Empire, hundreds of thousands killed in acts of retribution across the Gangesh plans. But as we've seen, she stands for clemency and amnesty and is recognized as such. And she tames some of the more horrific implements.

of her colonial offices. So she's a complicated figure. I have to say, I've ended this series more sympathetic to it than I began. I've always imagined that the kind of judy-dedcheization of Victoria and all these historical dramas has romanticized her and built her into something far more benign than she actually was. But the more we've looked at her, the more, in fact, she really does stand out from her times for resisting the enormous racial prejudice and the enormous will to conquer and subjugate that is the mark of her time. So I think if we are judging people against their times, she comes out pretty well. That is all from us and this mini-series of Victoria. Until the next time we meet, it's goodbye from me, Anita Arnand.

And goodbye from me, William Durimple.