Empire: World History - 287. Suez Crisis: Lies, Cyanide Pills, & Soviet Tanks (Part 4)

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Who was Dulles Airport named after and why was he instrumental in de-escalating the Suez Crisis? Why did Nasser order cyanide pills for his military generals during the crisis? How did the Egyptians use beer bottles to block the Suez Canal? William and Anita are joined once again by Alex Von Tunzelmann, author of Blood and Sand: Suez, Hungary, & The Crisis That Shook The World, to discuss the height of the Suez Crisis, and how the Soviets quashed the uprising in Budapest. Join the Empire Club: Unlock the full Empire experience – with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to miniseries and live show tickets, exclusive book discounts, a members-only newsletter, and access to our private Discord chatroom. Sign up directly at empirepoduk.com  For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com. Email: [e-mail] Instagram: @empirepoduk Blue Sky: @empirepoduk X: @empirepoduk Assistant Producer: Becki Hills Producer: Anouska Lewis Executive Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you want access to bonus episodes reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat community. Discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast, add free listening and a weekly newsletter, sign up to Empire Club at www.mpowerpoduk.com. And welcome to episode four of Empire in our Suez Crisis series with me, Anita Arnden. And me, William Durhampool. And of course, with Alex von Tundselman, author of... of blood and sand. And Alex has just been taking us through. If it weren't so Armagedony, it would be like a soap opera. I guess there are so many fascinating vignettes and characters

and things going on off screen, as with the best kind of sort of soap operas, and you keep dipping in and out of different areas. And we left you on a cliffhanger. We left you with Egypt. NASA now has mobilized his country on a war footing. The Brits have managed to annoy everybody, especially the Israelis, with whom they were in cahoots to take control. I'd say they'd join the Egyptians a bit more, probably, than bombing them. I mean, that's a given. Including your civilian airport in Cairo. I'd be a bit pissed off if I was Egyptians.

Yeah. They've annoyed the Americans. They haven't told them about it. They've annoyed their own parliamentarians. The Queen is quite annoyed. But also, you've got, you know, the fact that they're doing things completely wrong. They've annoyed the Israelis because they said they would bomb and take out the Egyptian Air force and they've managed to miss them completely and they've taken out a civilian

Air Force airport instead and bombed runways, which just have nothing to do with the military planes that they were supposedly targeting. So, you know, Moshe Dian is calling them bastards, bastards, bastards. That's where we left you in the last episode. And we have that brilliant insight into how the Syrians sort of rush off to the Soviet Union saying, help us, help us, General Zukov, only you can save us. It's like, you know, from Flash Gordon, You're our only hope now. Or help us Obi-1, Kenobi. And the Soviets say, what do you want from us?

What are we meant to do? And also, they have their own stuff going on. It's all hotting up. Getting to boiling points. So, I mean, they're suppressing a Hungarian revolution. And what are the British now saying to Moscow? Because they've completely taken their eye off world affairs. All eyes are on Egypt.

So what is going on then when the Soviets start making their moves in Hungary? Well, I mean, you've got the British ambassador in Moscow, a man called William Hater. I looked at his messages back and so on. You can see that the poor man is completely exasperated with this entire situation. And, of course, everybody has very, very inadequate information. And I know we've said that, but it's always worth emphasising that there's very little trust between a lot of these powers. And also very little communication. And they're not very good, actually, of working out what's going on.

So at this point, you know, Hater says the Soviet government, regard Suez as a heaven-sent distraction from Hungary. And the world is looking at the Middle East. At this point, you have enormous numbers of Red Army troops and tanks and so forth rolling across the border into Hungary. So, you know, the Soviets are obviously planning pretty major crackdown. And they kind of know that nobody's going to pay them a whole load of attention because all this stuff happening in the Middle East.

So this is very useful for them. Is there a sense in Britain that they've scored a bit of a lone goal? because one of the things they obviously didn't count on was all this going on at the same time. Absolutely, in Britain and also in America, where you have to remember in the US, of course, where they're strong anti-communist feeling in the government. And lots of people in the American government and security services had been waiting for years for some kind of anti-Soviet uprising like this to happen. They were really hopeful of it.

Actually, if you look at the CIA records, they didn't think it would happen in Hungary. They'd assess the chances there extremely minimal and cut CIA funding for a lot. because they just didn't think that was very feasible. Anyway, they got that completely wrong. Here it was happening. And there was absolutely nothing they could really do about it because of all this. So again, they're furious. So, I mean, at this point, Hater says, you know,

the Soviets don't really want to send troops to Egypt because they're too busy. And he says, but one of the things that's holding them back from getting involved in Egypt is that they still don't entirely believe that the Americans aren't also working with Britain and France, that this isn't some sort of mega trap that is being laid. and they still can't entirely sort that out. They can't imagine that the British have been quite stupid enough to do something as sort of blatantly hopeless as Sue is exactly. You've got exactly it. They're like, surely they wouldn't be that dumb.

I mean, that would be insane. It must be cleverer than it looks. Exactly. Surely there's some kind of extra plan here because this one's really stupid. So that's sort of what's happening. The Soviets think surely the Brits aren't as dumb. The Brits are precisely this dumb is unfortunately the reality of the situation. There are various places in the world where the Brits are always considered to be much more clever than they actually are.

Iran is one of these countries where they always think the Brits are behind everything. And the Brits are quite a question. No, not that organised. You know, they really aren't. And I mean, he says, you know, like, obviously the Soviets are, but he said this really extraordinary thing might happen where, like, actually the Soviets might kind of get together with the Americans at the expense of Britain and France. a joint Soviet-American military action against Britain and France, I mean, which sounds totally bonkers, but of course everything that was going on was totally bonkers,

so who knows what can occur in this situation. And he also says that, you know, look, the Soviets can't come all the way over. You know, the map is large, as Zukov has pointed out to the Syrians. The map is large. There are some impediments. There's a number of countries in between the Soviet Union and Egypt, yes. We can see this is going to be tricky, but he says, you know, their prestige is heavily engaged with NASA.

And they will do all they safely can to avert another blow to it, such as they have suffered in Eastern Europe. In either event, says Hayter, I fear we are in for a bad time in our relations with this country. Again, another understatement. I mean, I love the understatement of both the diplomatic and civil service in this time. It is an astonishing understatement. Let's focus in, though, on Hungary, because Nodge, spelled Nagy, in case you've just read about this history and didn't know this, N-A-G-Y. It's 2pm on November 1st, 1956. And Nodge is sitting there and his desk is filling up with papers saying,

The Red Army is on the move. The Red Army is coming. It's coming. It's coming. So what does he do and what sort of unfolds after that? Right. I mean, this is obviously an incredibly tense situation. You imagine the might of the Red Army is coming for him.

And that's a really serious army at this point. It's absolutely massive. He actually picks up the phone and withdrawals Hungary from. the Warsaw Pact, basically makes Hungary a neutral nation, takes it out of that Soviet block, of that communist order. Is that a suicidal thing to do? Well, it was unanimously approved by the entire cabinet, and it was also a demand of the rebels, was that you get Soviet troops out of the country that you stop doing this. I think what you have to sort of think is that Nodg was sitting there thinking, they're coming for us all, this is going to happen. Our only hope is to say we're

neutral and maybe then somebody international will intervene. But already all the T-54 tanks are rolling across the border. There's absolutely no way they're going to stop. Not really, no. But like, you know, I mean, it's a desperate situation, right? I mean, what do you do? Yeah, but to withdraw from the Warsaw Pact, in a way, also gives the Soviets a little more proof that the Americans are involved because what they're doing is they're chipping away at this block, this Soviet block behind the iron curtain that was meant to be solid, rock solid. So if you've got countries, if Hungary does it, then who's going to be next? And so, you know, you're going to have irritation at Nodge and his, you know, supposed not being Soviet enough, although you pointed out

quite rightly, he was a loyalist and was a Soviet appointment, if you like, in Hungary to begin with. But that is what the fear is in Moscow, that this is the start of a domino topple. And so we've got to deal with this with an iron fist, right, Alex? Exactly. I mean, you know, this has been a great fear in Moscow. It just nearly happened in Poland and they averted it. Now it's actually happening in Hungary. And when I say just nearly happened, like literally a couple of weeks before. I mean, there's been a very, very tense time. And they managed to avert it there by Krushchev actually flying to Poland and sorting it out. This is very, very scary for them. And they also, all the stuff is going on in the Middle East. Is this the big one? Is this the big war between,

you know, the Cold War gets hot. The superpowers start actually fighting each other. You know, yes, it's all proxies at this point and whatever, but like this can blow up very, very quickly. So I think it's fair to say that you can see that there's a great deal of alarm. So what's happening in the United Nations? This is, as we know, a new institution. It's just come up in New York. This is, in a sense, one of the very first tests for this institution that is specifically designed to avoid war in future. What's going on there?

Well, the Americans try to take this situation into the UN and try to resolve it that way. It's really interesting that they do that. I mean, basically, of course, NATO exists at this point as well, so it's since 19449, but there's not much prospect of resolving this through NATO because your big powerful people in NATO, apart from the US, are Britain and France, and what are they doing, colluding with Israel and starting this war? So NATO isn't much cop at this point for resolving that sort of situation. And actually, the American Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, really takes into the UN, which is headquarters in New York at this point.

Presumably brand-smanking new building, isn't it? Yes, very shiny, I should think, at that point. What dates that building come up? Around now. Around now, I mean, the paint is basically just barely dry at the United Nations headquarters, and they're having to do this. You mentioned John Foster Dulles, after whom Dulles Airport is named. So if anyone sort of travels through that, this is the Dulles. It is, yeah. Well, you do say a lot of people thought it was named for Alan Dulles, who is the head of the CIA, who is his brother.

So you've got this power bro thing going on within American circles of John Foster Dulles. And Dulles, of course, is again this 1950s architecture. It's exactly the same sort of Mr. Incredible style shapes. And of course, Alan Dulles, you know, came up during our Iran series when we talked about the toppling of Mossadegh, the coup that takes place. So you've got Dulles fingers all over everything. But this particular Dulles, John Foster Dulles, is going to the United Nations because he wants to stop this kind of secretive adventurism that's going on thanks to his partners in NATO, France. And Britain. Now, when he does go and speak before the United Nations, the United Nations must have been pretty shocked as well. No, I mean, what do they think about all of this? Everybody's pretty shocked. This whole situation is bananas.

John Foster Dulles, you know, as he said, his brother's head of the CIA, he's Secretary of State, incredible sort of power family going on. They've also got a sister who's a very powerful government economist, Eleanor. So, you know, there's a lot happening there at the top of government. and he was someone who rather like Dulles Airport. John Foster Dulles was generally regarded as remote, hard to get to inaccessible. Hours were to navigate. Winston Churchill used to call him Dull Duller Dulles was his little nickname for him. So this was John Foster.

Oh, Churchill has such a good turn of frame. Alan Dulles is actually a much warmer character. I mean, also responsible for quite a lot of political assassinations and so forth. so, you know, not excusing him, but a definitely more sort of personable guy. He's the guy that kicks off the whole CIA sort of toppling of Guatemala, Iran. I mean, all those 1950s coups are him. He's responsible for an awful lot of stuff that happened in the mid-20th century. However, in person, much warmer and John Fuster are much kind of colder fish, really, and hard to get on with.

He had been plotting various Middle Eastern coups that year, you know, somebody who absolutely was not in to a sort of imperialist action. But this seems to have really, the British-French action really triggered him, partly because I think he wasn't involved. They hadn't asked him. He'd been lied to. This was horrific. But also he was very rules-based.

And it restricts his freedom of action in Hungary. This is a big one for America. Yeah, and he's very strong anti-communists. So, you know, all of that is really, really crucial what's going on. It's absolutely furious. And his speech at the UN actually was pretty, extraordinary. You know, he said very openly, he said this all had the potential with Suez and Hungary both happening at the same time, that it could develop into a much bigger war. He said the apparent

impotence of this organisation to deal with the situation may set a precedent which will lead other nations to attempt to take into their own hands the remedying of what they believe to be their injustices. If that happens, the future is dark indeed. And he mentions that when they wrote the UN Charter, San Francisco in 1945, that we had thought we'd seen perhaps the worst in war, that our task was to prevent a recurrence of what had been. And indeed, what then had been was tragic enough. But now we know that what can be will be infinitely more tragic than what we saw in World War II. And the reason for that, of course, the more tragic is nuclear weapons, is that what ended World War II, of course, in the Pacific, was the nuclear bombs that were

dropped at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, still the only use of nuclear weapons. But this Now everyone has a lot more of them. This can happen again. Remind me by 1956, how bombed up is the Soviet Union? When did they get the bomb? Yes, very bombed up. So actually, Nikita Khrushchev's son, Sergei, was a nuclear bomb engineer. He ended up actually working in the US. I interviewed him for the book at the John Kennedy School. Really? In Massachusetts, it's quite extraordinarily. There was a very, very big nuclear arms race going on at this time. what the Soviets had at this point, and this is going to become very important for very scary

reasons, was really quite a lot of nuclear weapons. What was not so advanced at this stage, although, again, there was very little information in the West, but what they had was the propulsion mechanisms. So you had these warheads, how far could you fire them, was kind of a really crucial question. Were they thinking like the Americans were in World War II of dropping it from a big bomber, or had they already got intercontinental ballistic? So we're a little bit before Intercontinental. They had as medium range, largely, missiles. So the Soviets at this point could not hit the US. That was not a feasible scenario. What they probably could do was hit Western Europe. And of course, that's where the aggressors were in this situation.

So what you can see, I think, from Dulles' speech there, is that he's already a day or two in, extremely worried about the potential for this to become nuclear war. And this is what we start to come about with World War III. So, Alex, how does the UN respond to the speech? What's the vote and how does it pan out? So the UN votes overwhelmingly $4's resolution for a ceasefire, 64 votes to five with six abstentions. So the votes against America at this point are, of course, Britain, France, Israel, and Britain manages to kind of bully Australia and New Zealand into supporting them.

But that is disgraceful. And imagine those countries voting against the US. It's really quite a moment. Also just very interesting that in his speech to gee them up, He says the apparent impotence of this organisation. I mean, that is something that is going to be leveled at the United Nations every time there is a resolution to follow. But okay, so you've got, again, now this is a debasement of Britain,

just speaking from the British vantage point, that you have all of these countries, apart from the ones that are, you know, so colonialist or attached to you and the ones that you've been scheming with, all ranged against you, which can only make Eden's position ever more untenable as the Prime Minister. And also, presumably, thrilling Khrushchev, the fact that it said split the West. I mean, this is astonishing. First time since 45 that that's happened.

Yeah. You know, and as I say, it took them a long time to accept, and they were never entirely sure that the US weren't secretly working with Britain and France behind the scenes. But at this point, it starts to look like, wow, if they are, this is quite a bluff. You know, like, this is pretty extraordinary. They do start to think, okay, what is going on here? This is something very complicated is happening. We don't really understand it. It's deeply confusing.

And Dallas, at this point, I mean, his main fear is that if you allow this to happen, other countries will take this as a mandate to do whatever they want to do. I mean, his eyes are very much on the Soviet Union, but there are other countries as well that might start making moves and maneuvers. And the whole post-war peace would be undone, and it could be undone within days. Do we have any sort of accounts of what he's saying, thinking feeling at this time. He wins the vote, but that's still a far cry from getting people to get back into line, back into the pre-1956 line that they were all in. Yes, absolutely.

And I mean, I think they've established this idea of this post-war rules-based order, which, you know, nominally we're still supposed to live in today, although I think it's quite a lot of dispute about that. The idea is that you will resolve these things through talking, through a forum, through this kind of thing, through, you know, international action. There is, of course, Quite crucially, again, this will come off again, most probably, there are no armed forces attached to the UN at this point. It has no way of enforcing what it's doing. But it is, on the other hand, obviously, an international body. And the idea is that we're going to avoid another world war by this. And at this precise point, it looks like, well, we're not. You know, just a few years in, that's already busted. So. And the things are moving now apace, because NASA, who is at war and he's being attacked on all sides, decides to blockade the Suez Canal. which is exactly, you know, it's the causes spell. The French and the British were always saying could happen that if you leave an Egyptian in charge of the canal, he's going to block it.

Well, he does block it. I mean, after the French and the British do what they do. But we're talking about, I mean, this is a brilliant observation from you. They basically fill bits of it in, don't they, Alex, with things like, you know, sort of beer bottles, empty beer bottles. Tell us what the blockade looks like. Egyptian stellar, stellar beer, which has a very heavy brown bottle. It does, exactly.

to weigh down this. Make some lovely beer in the Middle East. And yeah, basically, certainly at this point. And, yeah, I mean, so basically what he did was fill block ships, junk ships, filled with junk. So empty beer bottles, cement, scrap iron, kind of, just junk. Fill those and just sink them in the canal, you know. So you're basically what you're doing is you're blocking the thing.

Now, what's crucial here is that one of the justifications for the Anglo-French invasion was supposed to be, we must at all costs, the canal open. But what all the military analysts had said correctly, as it turned out, is the first thing Nassau will do is block the canal, which of course he did. So this is why he did it, because of course, if you're invaded, what do you do? Massive portcullis down in the middle of the thing. Everything that is a nightmare for, you know, these Western powers, post-war Western powers, is happening. Oil pipelines are being blown up. The Suez Canal is being blocked. And this is the same threat, isn't it? Because the only other way other than pipelines to get oil to the

is through tankers going through the Suez Canal. So it's Canal, right. So suddenly there is a prospect of no oil at all reaching Europe or America. We have a big problem. Yes. Yeah, a big problem. But it doesn't deter the French. And is it true to say that actually, you know, the Brits are getting slightly cold feet

and Eden's feeling slightly under siege at the moment. But it is the French saying, Allé, Veet. You know, they're the ones who are saying, let's go, let's go, Eden. You know, yeah. The French have absolutely no intention of stopping. I mean, Eden, of course, you know, is sort of. feeling, I think, much more squeamish. Well, he's not at this point feeling particularly squeamish about it, but Eden is more vulnerable to pressure from the Americans and also from

his domestic situation. As I say, I think he clearly from the beginning felt far more need to be secretive about this operation and the French did. They never bothered being remotely secretive about it. He felt the need to, you know, say there was no collusion with Israel. France was like, well, of course, why not? You know, this is, it's a totally. It's a totally, different environment. And I think that's kind of, there's a big cultural difference between Britain and France about how they operate in, you know, even if I call it an empire, there were French people being like, but it wasn't an empire. It was all part of metropolitan France. You know, how they operate in these outposts that they have. So at this point, yes, there's a huge problem. The oil is not flowing.

And well, in the US, of course, they have their own oil. They could also have oil from Venezuela in places like this. Britain and France do not particularly have an alternative supply of oil. If you remember, before they built the Suez Canal, as you mentioned in the first episode, ships had to go all the way around the Horn of Africa. That took weeks. That still took weeks, because even though we have faster ships at this point than you would have had in the 19th century, they're not like speedboats, you know, they're not kind of like going to speed through that.

That is still going to take weeks. You've got a big gap. So basically, the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation has to go on TV in Britain and say, we're going to have to restrict oil consumption in this country. Pretty much, turn your lights off and stop driving. Alex, just give me a little bit more idea about the French at this point. I'm just doing the math. 56 presumably is right at the peak of the Algerian war.

All those scenes we see from the movie, the Battle of Algiers, those bombs going off in cafes and that sort of stuff, plus the French secret service torturing rebels, presumably that's reaching its peak exactly at this moment, and is egged on by this. And very early in the Suez Crisis, the French actually kidnapped Ahmed Ben Bella and the leaders of the Algerian independence movement.

They literally forced their plane down and imprisoned them in France. And that was kind of part of this whole thing for them was trying to stop this rebellion in Algeria. As indeed you can see from Battle of Algiers, that did not work. It didn't actually go at all well. And I think that was partly because Mollé,

and he wasn't totally alone in this, but Mollay and other members of the French administration had persuaded them, themselves, that most of Algeria was loyal, loved being part of France, this is all great. It's just these couple of troublemakers, like I'm at Ben Bella, who are being stirred up by NASA, take him away, no problem. Was not true. And again, nudge my memory, but there's this really quite serious bloodshed going on in Algeria.

I mean, there's large numbers of people dying at this point. Yes, and it gets worse as well. I mean, but as I say, that's kind of part of their whole misunderstanding that this is being caused by a couple of troublemakers rather than a really quite serious independence. movement. But just going back to, you know, the British government announcing to people that you're going to have to tighten your belts, we're all in this together, turn off your lights, and also stop filling up your cars. Now, even to this day, it is a political grenade to tell the electorate that they can't fill up their cars. I mean, that's why, you know, so blockades,

that kind of strike is so serious, even sort of in recent history. Your Morris Oxford is your castle at this period. But even today, honestly, even today, if there is a fuel crisis, that sends a government into crisis. We've seen it time and time again. So you will have in Britain at this time then an opposition that is emboldened, that is like, you know, we have now actually, this is an election-winning issue. If people are being told they can't fill up their cars, we're on the move. And so the opposition starts calling for a ceasefire.

And they start trying to batter Eden at the dispatch box saying, are you going to have a ceasefire? the United Nations has already started battering Eden, and he hasn't got that sort of wave of confidence, as you say, that the French had. And you've got, in the form of Vice President Nixon, somebody very pointedly saying, you know what, mate, you carry on this path, Eden, and France, if you're listening, and there's going to be serious trouble with our special shoulder-to-shoulder relationship. Just to remind us, what does Nixon say at the time?

Well, Nixon is kind of fascinated by this because he sees this as a moment for America to assert itself. I mean, Richard Nixon had a fairly sort of, should say, a rather uniquely American view of post-colonial order, which involved America getting to be the big empire now, right? But nobody else should have one because it's not American. Exactly. So it's all sort of framed around independence from colonial powers and all of this without a sort of acceptance that America is one of those

and is becoming one of those. Nixon's adventures in Latin America and so forth could show us a lot about that, which we talked about a bit in some of our own. Caribbean podcasts as well that we've done on Empire. But at this point, he says, for the first time in history, we've shown independence of Anglo-French policies towards Asia and Africa, which seemed to us to reflect the colonial tradition. This declaration of independence has had an electrifying effect throughout the world. So he's seeing this kind of America leading this great independence. Now, of course, America was, the United States did win its independence from Britain,

of course, very famously in the 18th century. And there's a sort of internal view in America that therefore, you know, it's impossible for America to become an empire because it's founded as a sort of anti-imperial project. Of course, the rest of the world does not end up always seeing it quite in that same way that America sees it. Well, I mean, we've done a series, Alex, America's Hidden Empire, which we did with Daniel Imovar. So, you know, all of this is going on around about the same time. We've also done a series on Vietnam. And this is what two years after Diemben Fu, when the Americans have taken over from the French,

who couldn't hold the ground in Vietnam. But it's not an empire, nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. It's not an American empire. Don't be silly. It's just to Germany. You know, Nixon is the vice president. Eisenhower is the president, but he is now starting to look a bit frayed at the edges, isn't he?

Yes, he is. And I mean, he writes at this point to a friend, life gets more difficult by the minute. I believe that Eden and his associates have become convinced this is the last straw, and Britain simply had to react in the manner of the very. Victorian period. But I don't see the point of getting into a fight to which there can be no satisfactory end and in which the whole world believes you're playing the part of the bully, and you don't even have the firm backing of your entire people. So he can see, basically, that this is not going well. We sort of said before that he's, you know, Issaher is someone who has been

pro-British. He's somebody who really has thought that alliance is really important, and he's furious about this, but he's also dismayed. He's really disappointed, and I think that's quite crucial to his emotional reaction. He's really disappointed. Like a headmaster, I'm really disappointed. You've let yourself down. You've let the post-war order down. One other person who we haven't mentioned, who's also very upset at this point, is Mountbatten. We always associate Mabatten with empires and so on, but he is horrified by what's going on. At this point, he's Admiral of the fleet, and he sends Eden's private secretary a letter. I know that you've been aware over these past few weeks of my great unhappiness at the prospect of our launching military expeditions against

Egypt, although I did not believe that a just and lasting settlement of any dispute could be worked out under threat of military action. But he says, now I can no longer remain silent. Yeah. So there's a surprising Tory grandest of grandees breaking rags at this point. I mean, Mountbatten saw himself as a left winger, you know, and saw himself really as an anti-colonial figure. I mean, there's always a story about, um, what? When Conservative campuses came around to Broadlands to his house and knocked on the door, he said, no, I'm sorry, I vote Labour. You'll have to go around the back.

My butlers are conservative. I don't know that story. It's a brilliant story. So, I mean, you know, Mountbatten swims up. And I mean, obviously his wife Edwina was incredibly anti-colonious, very left-wing and had politics. And that did influence him. And this is a point when Neroo presumably is still coming to stay every summer. Yes, absolutely.

You know, they're very close. Oh, we're getting into another, listen, people. We're getting into another von Tensselman book. Oh, which is excellent, by the way. India Summit. It's an absolute classic. But look, we're going to go to a break. Yeah, we'll go to a break. But I mean, yes. The point being that absolutely, there is huge opposition to Eden within the British establishment is absolutely right. Right. Okay. And but also, you know, you've got Freed Eisenhower who gives a speech. Now, the Americans, and we'll just leave this

hanging before we go to a break. They're in a bind now because they are, on the one hand, scolding Britain and France and showing their independence, you know, as Nixon says, you know, we're finally breaking away from these old colonial countries and their stupid colonial Victorian attitudes. But at the same time, this binds their hands when it comes to intervening in what's going on in Hungary as well. And they may well want to intervene in what's going on in Hungary. And this may well not have been there doing, but it isn't an inconvenient thing to see the Soviet Union start crumbling from within. So what do they do? So actually, the Freid old Eisenhower does give a speech in Philadelphia where he links Suez and Hungary, saying, you know, he was really

proud that the United States had declared itself against the use of force in either conflict. And he says, we cannot and will not condone aggression, no matter who the attacker, no matter who the victim. Join us after the break. Welcome back. So very uncharacteristically for Empire Pod, we have gone all over the shop down every available rabbit hole, including Diembian Fu, Mountbatten's Butler and a few other sidekicks. But it's time to get us back to Egypt, which we have left for a while. Now, Alex, tell us what's happening with NASA at this point, because some of his people are advocating surrender. NASA hasn't quite gone for the Cleopatra option of giving everybody an ass to bite their breasts, but he has issued them with cyanide tablets. Is that really the case?

It's not that different. Yeah, Alex, what's this about? Comes to the same. Yeah, well, basically, this is a bit of a classic NASA moment. Meaning he's a bit of a drama queen? I was going to say charismatic. you can use your word as you wish. That's a very much nicer. It is a nicer word. But basically, I mean, you know, the Israeli invasion, although it's kind of beset by disaster and not moving as fast as they perhaps hoped, ultimately the Egyptian army is not doing a particularly brilliant job of standing up against this.

And, you know, you've got a potential Anglo-French invasion, obviously is a far bigger deal. And all of this heading for Cairo. And actually, one of NASA's generals at this point said, maybe we should just surrender. like we're not really going to be able to do much about this, we're going to get crushed. And NASA said at that point, well, far better that we will commit suicide here than take this step. You know, at least that would be honourable. So he ordered these vials, phosphate cyanide, suicide capsules for all of them and said, right, I'm serious about what we say, do you want to do it?

And then they backed down and said, no, fine, okay, we'll fight. It's a bit horrible. Since you put it that way, NASA. Again, I wouldn't take you down another rabbit hole, but when I was covering the Civil War on Sernaker as a young journalist, all the Tamil tigers used to wear cyanide files on a necklace around their neck. And of course, American U2 pilots did do. It was a thing. It's a thing you could do.

But I mean, no, they didn't do it. And I mean, but I think what that shows really, it's about NASA deciding, OK, look, I'm going to fight this. He's going to fight it, but also losing faith, Alex, in his own generals, who seem to be cowdy, cowdy, custed. You know, they're not standing up in the way that he needs them. So he does start activating an underground. And a word that perhaps people may have heard or may not have heard,

But the fedain are activated. Tell us about the fedeine. Absolutely. Well, this is kind of basically just, I mean, it's a very broad word used in different contexts. Gorilla cells, is that the best way of describing it? Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's also guerrilla cells in Arabic. NASA's idea of like, okay, look, if this whole thing collapses, we've resisted British rule before.

We had to do that through basically guerrilla warfare. We didn't do that again. I'm just noticing this is your fancy, from your Cuba days, your perhaps gorilla in a sophisticated Spanish. I can't say guerrilla. That's like, you know, guerrilla wolf. No one knows what guerrilla is. Yes, they do. I know. They always stop me when I say it on documentaries and say, sorry it's guerrilla and I'm like, no, it isn't. I'm going to say it correctly. So tell us about what NASA does in terms of actual military maneuvers. He pulls divisions out of Sinai, doesn't? Yes, he does. I mean, basically he realizes it's going to have to defend Cairo. He's going to have to kind of really, you know, consolidate this situation. It's all going to be quite chaotic. Again, his sort of minister of war is horrified that he seems to be retreating

and actually tells him this sort of rather extraordinary story that recently he went to a military academy and found it so outrageous that there were lessons in withdrawal, that he actually took the subject to withdraw off the Egyptian military curriculum. And that's just kind of like, oh my God, you moron, and actually says, you know, pull yourself together, Hakeem. The whole army will be converted into a career force and pulled deep into Egypt and let them fight us there. Your behaviour is unmanly. The first shots have hardly been fired. So he's pointing out that no, actually, withdrawals a tactic. And what we're going to do is go underground and we're going to fight whatever happens here.

And then you get the British and the French getting ready. Their air forces, they're now all set to bomb Egypt. And rather than hiding it, they're actually opening their bombing shoots and their loading attempts to the press. Yep, they've got a photographer there to see them right on the missiles. NASA's rock and roll, a bit of a contemporary 1956 reference there and on another one love to NASA but they cross out

the letters of his name so it's love to nasty Oh that's clever really sophisticated humour here and also you know for bombing people pretty gross are they bombing Israel?

No. So once again it becomes extremely apparent what side they're on I mean you really couldn't at this point be in any confusion and they also kind of go through a psychological warfare plant.

Psychops. Psychops, exactly. So radio broadcast saying, you know, to people of Egypt, you know, you're hiding in your little villages, we shall come and bomb you there. Imagine your own village being bombed. Imagine your wife and children, mother and father, running away from home. You made a mistake. You trusted NASA.

All this kind of stuff, right? Really horrible, actually. Really intimidating. Because you have to remember that this operation, it's called Operation Musketeer, was planned by Britain and France as an open invasion of Egypt. It wasn't planned as a secret operation. that was intended to look like a peacekeeping operation, because if you were planning something that was going to look like a peacekeeping operation,

you wouldn't be doing crazy stuff like broadcasting SIOPS because it makes it really clear. It makes you the bad guy. An invasion. Yeah, look a lot of the bad guys, don't you? Because you are. So again, this had all been planned as part of that operation. But now this military machine was, you know, putting all these moves out, like these SIOPs. And it was supposed to look like a neutral peacekeeping operation. Well, it didn't. because it had been planned for something completely different,

and because you cannot just retrofit an operation like that at a few days' notice as they tried to. So again, it just really is looking worse and worse. Like, almost everything that happens just makes Britain and France look worse, more deceptive, more awful than the last thing. Duplicitous, particularly, yeah. So NASA, in response, though, takes the message to the streets and an open-top car, you know, so raising a slogan,

we will fight, we will fight, we will fight, and if you threaten people over the air, as Britain and France have done on their radios. It galvanises people. And this announcement goes, you know, in Cairo, I shall fight with you against any invasion. We will fight to the last drop of our blood. We shall never surrender. And people are generally being carried along that slipstream, aren't they? I mean, the Egyptian people hear it. They've also heard the threats. And they're responding in kind. I mean, you can imagine they don't feel like, oh, I don't know, maybe we should just give up, really, and be a colonial possession. I mean, that's not what people think faced by this kind of adversity, is it?

And he had this line about how Egypt had always been a graveyard of invaders. And so then there was this popular song at the time, The Nile Graveyard of All Invaders and another popular song, Gamal, opener of the door of freedom, you know, these were sort of actually a popular response was kind of no thanks, should we say very politely, to Britain and France's offer to invade. And Alex, is there already attempts to arm the population because at some point they start issuing Czech-issued arms, don't they, out into villages

and encouraging people to take the defence, you know, literally to their own streets and villages. I mean, it starts to happen, and it's all kind of confused around this point, but this is exactly what they're starting to do, is move into, you know, NASA wants to move into an underground resistance mode because he thinks Egypt is probably going to be invaded. You know, Britain, France and Israel are far superior fighting force. So it turns into this resistance. So the only way to respond is, as you say, gharia. Resistance, exactly.

Garilla resistance. And so basically, yes, and he's got arms from Czechoslovakia because he's had to buy arms from the Soviets because he's been denied buying them from Western countries. So that's why they're Czechoslovakian. Which incidentally was also what the Israelis were using in 1948. Yes, absolutely. I mean, this is not uncommon. And meanwhile, you know, sort of, as I say, this is one of those complicated dramas where you have many different. sets simultaneously doing many different bits. In the United States, the Secretary of State,

Foster Dulles, is getting some really bad medical news that he has cancer. Now, just to show how important sewers is in the calculus of the United States at this time, Alex, he says to his people, you know what, give everything to Henry Hoover, who is, you know, the acting secretary while I'm ill, but I want to see everything related to sewers myself for these eyes only, because that's how important the United States sees this. He might be in pain. He might be dying, but he's not taking his eye off sewers. I mean, it's a huge thing. And if you can just remember that, like, day before, he gave this speech to the UN, one in the morning, you know, this amazing speech, carried this huge resolution, stayed up to five that morning. You know, the next morning

was on the 1030, back to Washington from New York. All of this. I mean, he'd been feeling absolutely terrible, but this particular day, he was, you know, he woke up in this pain and goes to hospital and has told you have cancer. I mean, the drama of it is sort of completely extraordinary, and it would kill him soon afterwards. This story is just nuts. Yeah, absolutely nuts. It has everything, everything in it. But also, you know, that sense of jeopardy is made very, very real. When a man in searing pain knows there's something more important than his own searing pain and his imminent death, it is what is going on in the Middle East. And the next day, Eden takes to British television. What does he tell the British people? Well, he tried to give a speech,

claiming that he was in the right, basically justifying his actions. You know, he's starting to look a bit washed out, but he's still kind of driven by his own self-belief to an extent. And it is quite elegantly done all that, but you can hear a certain defensiveness to it. He's still trying to claim at this point, even though we can all see it isn't, that the British and French intervention was a spontaneous response to Israel's action, no collusion, no conspiracy, nothing like this has happened. And so he tries to emphasize what sort of guy he is all my life. I've been a man of peace, working for peace, striving for peace, negotiating for peace. I've been a League of Nations man and a United Nations man,

and I'm still that same man with the same convictions and the same devotion to peace. I could not be other, even if I wished, but I am utterly convinced that the action we've taken is right. And the sort of extraordinary thing is you watch this, and there he is being sort of carried along by it. And it's a complete lie. And he knows it's a lie. Well, look, we're going to end this here, join us for the next episode where that lie is hanging over Parliament. You've got a guerrilla force or guerrilla force being mobilised in Egypt. You've got the Americans thinking this is absolutely the number one concern at the moment. So a dying Secretary of State will not take his eyes off the situation. Let's find out what happens next in the next episode. If you can't wait,

do you know what to do? Of course you know what to do. Empowerpodukukes is where you go and join our club because then you have free access to all of these miniseries in one go. You don't have to wait. But if you are going to wait till the next time we meet, it is goodbye from me, Anita Arnan. And goodbye from me, William Drimple.