Empire: World History - 326. Indian Uprising 1857: India’s Joan of Arc – Rani of Jhansi (Part 5)

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

The warrior queen who fought the British on the battlefield, Rani of Jhansi –or Rani Lakshmibai– is still a hero in India, with comic books and Bollywood movies about her. But what’s the true history behind her legend? How did she become a fierce leader of resistance who led her men to fight fearlessly against the East India Company? In Episode 5 of the series, William and Anita are joined by Ira Mukhoty, author of Heroines: Powerful Indian Women of Myth & History, to discuss the life of one of the leaders of the Indian Rebellion, Rani of Jhansi. Join the Empire Club: Unlock the full Empire experience – with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to miniseries and live show tickets, exclusive book discounts, a members-only newsletter, and access to our private Discord chatroom. Sign up directly at empirepoduk.com  For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com. Email: [e-mail] Instagram: @empirepoduk Blue Sky: @empirepoduk X: @empirepoduk Editor: Charlie Rodwell Producer: Anouska Lewis Executive Producer: Dom Johnson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you want access to bonus episodes reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat community. Discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcasts, add free listening and a weekly newsletter, sign up to Empire Club at www.mpowerpoduk.com. So it's 1857. It is the middle of what some call the Indian Mutiny, others call the Great Uprising. and the East India Company is to meet its most charismatic enemy. She is young, she is beautiful, she is widowed, and she has been robbed of her kingdom by British law and pushed step by step by the arrogant bureaucracy into war.

And as legend has it, she endures a brutal siege. She straps her child to her back. She gets on her horse called Bardell or Cloud and leaps over the ramp, parts only to face an army later on dressed as a man fighting to the death. This is the story of the rebel the British admired most and could not control. The Rani of Jancy. Hello and welcome to Empire with me Anita Arnden.

And me, William Duremberg. And as you know, we are now deep into our series on the events of 1857, either called the Indian Mutiny, the Great Uprising, the First War of Independence, call it what you will, but without a doubt, this seapoy, what starts as a seapoy mutiny and then gains momentum throughout India, is going to change the map of the subcontinent. Let's start with where did we start, Willie? I mean, where did we start with all of this? Just remind people who may not have heard the first two episodes. Well, do go and listen to them because it's such a cracking story. And however many times you reread these events and revisit the various

personalities involved, it never ceases to fascinate. But we followed it from the initial spark of the japatis, the mysterious jappities passing from contumment to contumont, the grease cartridges. We've watched me root, blaze, Delhi full, seen the aged Mughal emperor restored. We've trudged through the horrific violence of Kornpur, three successive massacres. And we left you at the last episode with the siege of Lucknow and the first attempt at its relief, which just ended up with more people stuck inside the residency, under fire and short of food. Yeah, and, you know, as so often happens in these situations, so many innocents lose their lives in so many appalling ways. It's been a grim few episodes, it's absolutely true to say. You've got sort of

incompetency, a certain amount of insensitivity. You've got British officers who are out for blood because they want to avenge the terrible series of events that go on in Kahnpur. You've got bloodletting on both sides. Today, though, we're going to get to an icon. And it's somebody who, every Indian child is given a little comic. And I'm sort of no exception. This is what it is. So look, I'll just show you, okay?

Yeah, there we go. Amar Chitra Kapa. They do this sort of series of people who are, you know, of your heritage, and you're meant to be very, very proud of them. And this is Lakshmi Bai, the Rani of Jansi, the warrior queen. And she is absolutely, Anita, your sort of girl. And there are quite a few of them in this story, in fact. We've already briefly met the Begham Hazrat Mahal in Lucknow.

But Rani Lakshmi Bai is the most extraordinary story. And I have to say, rereading the episodes about her story, I've forgotten what an amazing tale it is. she was virtually the only rebel that the British could bring themselves to admire. They're incredibly rude and call all the others savages and murderers and blood letters. But even the British, even at this most bigoted of moments in British and in British history and imperial history are absolutely enraptured by the Rani of Juxi. And her story is extraordinary.

It has everything. You've got the wicked governor general, Dalhousie, who seems to weave his way in and out of our podcast, every few months, a stolen inheritance, a terrifying siege, a daring escape on horseback with a child strapped to her back, it's all too good to be true, and the final glorious stand. And as usual, however, with 8057, the reality is a bit messier, sadder, and arguably more interesting than the myth. A hundred percent. Because the truth is that the Rani didn't want this war, it wasn't that she opted to become the rebel princess that she's remembered as. In fact, she is virtually shoved into rebellion by British bureaucratic arrogance. And in many ways, she goes out of her way, you know, arguably

to collaborate and avoid becoming a rebel. But the truth is that she's practically shoved into rebellion by British bureaucratic arrogance. And it's so interesting because the stuff that you've talked about, you know, sort of collaboration with the British is often left out of the Indian side of the story. That's not what, you know, Indians are told. She's just pure rebellion and resistance. That story of Lakshmi Bai, we are very lucky. We have got such a fabulous guest to talk about this. Ira Mukoti is with us. She's a fabulous historian of the late Mughal era. I've learned so much from reading her work and speaking to her. Like me, she likes a feisty gal as well. Welcome, Ira. Thanks very much for being with us.

Thank you. Thank you, Anita. Thank you, William. Thank you for that very generous introduction. No, it's an absolute pleasure. I mean, just could you sort of give us a little bit of an idea of who she was because, you know, you've got the Joan of Arc, which is very difficult to live up to. You've also got this idea that Williams talked about as somebody who collaborated with the British that Indians don't get to hear about. So who was she really? When you say, Rani of Chalci, who do you see before your eyes? So, you know, like a lot of people growing up in India, who I first saw when I started thinking about, is the image you show on the Amar Chetatsha Khatha comic, which is iconic, which is shown in every, I think, you know, school and every child

knows it of this beautiful young woman hair streaming down her back on a horse, preparing to jump off the wall of her fort into her legend and immortality. And when I started studying her a little bit more for my first book, I realized that a lot of the imagery around that icon, the elements are actually untrue or misleading or fabricated. in some way or the other. You know, we have built up this image of who the Rani was. We don't even know for sure when she was born any time between 1827 to 1835. Take your pick.

So she could be even younger in her heroic phase than is normally said to me. Yes, exactly. But I don't think so. I think she was probably born around 1828 or 29. She is born into this family of Brahmins, who are advisors to the Peshwas, the Maratha generals. And what happens of great consequence to her later legend in her later life is that she loses her mother at a very young age. And therefore, she avoids the hyper-socialization that happens to young girls all around the world, of course, but most especially in India. So she does not learn necessarily how to be the perfect daughter, how to be a dutiful girl, how to be a very pious woman, how to be a good wife later on in life.

Instead, she is educated with the boys of the Peshua at the court of this Marata general. She is literate, which is very rare for women in her time in India. And she grows up learning some of the other interesting skills, which will come in very useful to her later on. So, I mean, just to remind all of you, you mentioned the Maratas and the Peshua. We've talked about them before in this podcast. But they were, you know, a very martial race in the Deccan who successfully, pushed back against the moguls. And so, you know, we're always, and particularly even later when it comes to Indian independence,

are held up as this icon of resistance. And she's born to all of that. And when you say she sort of avoided all the needlepoint and all of that gubbins that we all had to, women of that era had to throw themselves into, is that the same as saying that she also received any military training? Because, you know, that image of her leaping, you know, her horse leaping and going into battle, was there any basis to that at all? Yes, I think so. I think that is very much the case because I would imagine, I don't know about you, Anita, but if you grew up, never having learned how to ride a horse and as a young person, as a young adult, were made to ride a horse for the first time. I don't know if it's happened to you.

It has happened to me because my children are riders. And I tried at a later age. and it was terrifying, and I got off as fast as I could. The Normans used to say you could make a horseman out of a boy by the age of 12, but never after that. I agree in this case, yes, absolutely. So I think it is almost inevitable that she would have grown up with the boys of the Peshua Court learning all these martial skills like horse riding, like shooting, perhaps wrestling, which she's meant to be doing as well later on in life.

And so she grew up with the same skills at the boy. boys at the court did because her father was too busy telling her go back into the house and put the veil down on your face or learn your, you know, learn your religious duties. So that was a really interesting point to understand that this education as a child, the lack of a mother's influence and this very rowdy, boisterous, all-boy environment that she was in probably helped her to acquire all these many skills as a child. So, I mean, but the pressure in those days, was also on a woman, not just to sort of learn how to be the ideal woman, you know, doing your prayers and then making sure the kitchen was well kept and everything. But to get married. So, I mean,

was there that kind of pressure from the family? And, you know, was she very young when she got married? Because we know that she did get married. Yes. So there was a lot of pressure on the family. Her father, it was said, was quite worried about finding a good family for her to marry into. And finally, he finds this king, Gangadhar Rao, in this small principality of Jhansi, who has lost his first wife and is quite desperate to find a second wife because he has no living heirs. And so a liaison matches arranged between this very young girl, probably around the age of 12, 13 or 14. But not unusual at that stage to be married to that. That wasn't a scandalously young age. Absolutely.

Absolutely. it was not at all scandalous. A lot of marriages were arranged even earlier and then the girl would be sent to her a bridegroom's house at the time of puberty. So this is not unusual at all. You see these kind of marriage alliances happening all the time, especially in elite houses where you have to assure airs and children being born. You see these young girls getting married around the time of puberty. So sometime around the age of 12, 13 or 14, she's married to Ganga Dharrao as a second wife. You're absolutely right. Not unusual in those days, but I mean, we're still entitled to feel a little bit sick, I mean, especially those of us who have, you know, youngsters in our life. 12 is a 12 is a child, it's just a child. But is it at that point, era that she takes on the name that is part of her legend, Lakshmi Bai, you know, named after one of the goddesses?

Quite right. So she was born Manikarnika, which is a name for the river Ganga because she is born in Benares. she was from a family that lives there. It is said according to one record, and that is a young Brahman priest who happens to be traveling around Bundelkand at the time of the uprising. And he actually lives in Jhasi for some months

during the time of the uprising. And he says that her pet name, because you know in India we are very fond of second and third names and pet names, she was called Chabli, which means pretty one. So that was the name that she was called by, but she's called Manika. And it is only in 1842 when she gets married that she takes on almost like a title, the name

Lakshmi Bai. So she's married. She's got a future mapped out. Most women drop through the cracks of anybody's knowledge at this point. They just turn into it to baby machines. But there is something that happens, which is particularly important and will put her front and center of this rebellion. And again, we look back to Lord Dalhousie, as William said. It's like, almost like a pantow villain who appears on this podcast with alarming regularity. But he is the man who makes Duleep Singh sign over his Coenol Diamond. He is the man who comes up, most importantly here, with the doctrine of lapse. Now, we should explain what the doctrine of lapse is because it's absolutely pivotal in this story era. I mean, just remind everybody what that means

and how against the way Indian culture works at this time his decision is. So when he comes, to India, he's this very sickly young man, 36 years old. And when he lands in Calcutta, it is believed that he won't survive very long. He only may be a few months because he's bent over with pain in the kidneys. But he does survive. And not only does he survive, he develops this sort of gargantuan appetite for the territories of India. It is as if he has this insatiable hunger to swallow up more and more resources, more and more land, into the East India Company.

He never saw a province of India. He didn't want to make pink. That's right. That's right. And so he thinks up of this doctrine of lapse because he has realized that in India, you know, you have this sort of informal way in which children sometimes come to the musnet or to the throne.

If a ruling a king or sovereign dies without an heir, there's often a child adopted. And this is very normal throughout. Indian society. It is called God Lena to take a child into your lap. And it is done even today, I know of people who have an excess of children and will donate a child to a sister, to a brother, for them to raise as their own. It happens all the time. And it certainly happens amongst the elite, amongst the kings, among the ruling classes. And so when Rani Lakshmii Mai marries Gangha Dharau, he is already a very diminished man whose powers have been much reduced. And they hear of

this doctrine of lapse that has been introduced by Dalhousie. And so Dalhousie has decided that if there is ever a ruler who dies without an air, this is an excellent moment to say, well, there's no air that we accept, who can take over the state, so we shall absorb it into the East India Company. Also, they will be lapsed into us if we deem the ruler not doing a good enough job. So with those kind of subjective reasons, you can imagine that a lot of territory was potentially in the line of fire in terms of Dalhousie being able to claim it as part of this policy of lapse. And it's clear that Ganga Dharaw and Lakshmi Bai had already heard about this

in 1853 because when he falls very ill, Gangadha Rav, he gets very worried about this whole issue and he immediately adopts a five-year-old boy because they have had no children, possibly according to one account, which is not substantiated. They had a baby who died very young. But whatever it is when he is dying, Gangadha Rao, there is no living air for him to claim. And so he takes on and adopts a relative. So this five-year-old boy, Damoda Rao, is a relative. And Gangadha Rao makes sure to call in the English agent for him to come to court in front of the child, in front of all his courtiers, and witness this very formal act of adoption so that there is no uncertainty about the fact that this young boy is being adopted and is therefore the legal

air. I mean, that's the plan. As we know, Dalhousie has very different plans. So, you know, whatever the resident may say and smile sweetly and say, yes, very happy for your, very happy for your child. Yes. In March 1854, the British go ahead and they annexed Chancy regardless of what the resident might have smiled and said to a dying king. So, I mean, what does that then lead to? So what it leads to astonishing and even before it is announced and made formal, Rani Lakshmi Bai starts sending letters and petitions to the English at Calcutta and she starts laying out her claim because she realizes what's going to happen.

She is really well informed. This is something that to me was quite astonishing to learn about this, that she is so well informed. She knows what's going on with the English. She knows what might happen to her beloved Jansi. She starts writing letters, very well articulated letters, laying out her claim. And when she receives no positive replies, she hires a lawyer, a man called John Lang. So this was a slightly loose individual who had been living in Merritt, and he ran a weekly

newspaper called the Mufasaelite. And it was a pretty gossipy sort of broadsheet. And he, because he was Australian, he really enjoyed making fun of the British. And he was particularly happy to fight cases on the behalf of Indians against the British. He had just won a very famous such case. He comes to see her. There's a big tent has been prepared. She is sitting behind the pardah. The ground is covered in flowers. He is made to sit in front of the parda. And during the talks, which she carries on for many, many hours from six in the evening to in the morning, accidentally on purpose, her young son actually opens the curtain of the parda so that John Lang can see Rani Lakshmi Bai. And clearly Rani Lakshmi Bai realizes she is an attractive woman and it would be to her advantage to have this Ferengi man see her and feel even more pathos and empathy for her cause.

But despite all this effort, all the letters she writes, she will write to Dalhousie, she writes to his agent, laying out her case very clearly saying, look, we have always been very friendly with the British. Jansi has been an ally. We have done nothing aggressive towards the British cause here. On the contrary, and she lists out the treaties which have been signed, 1803, 1817, 1832. She lists out all the terms of the treaties and says, we have not done anything in contravention to these terms. How can you do this to us? Despite that, she loses her case. And Jansi, does lapse to the British. And there's a very bad record, isn't there, of appeals to the East India Company. There are many attempts over many years of many different rulers to try and get justice.

And they all seem to run into a quagma. Either the letters not sent or they're not delivered or the lawyers turn out to be crooked or the East India Company simply doesn't process the letters once they arrive in Levin Hall Street. Exactly. And in Lefrey-Mai's case, she gets no replies and it has said that Dalaiusie is very annoyed that she should have even have thought that she had a case to fight. Which, you know, practically speaking, means she must leave the force. So there's an enormous fort in Jhansi where the ruling family had based themselves in. So she is made to leave Jhansi Fort and live in a mahel outside the walls of the fort within the city. And she is given a pension of $60,000 a year, which is quite paltry.

compare it with, for example, Biza by Sindia, the exact same in the 1830s, was getting a pension of 600,000 rupees at this time. So, Ira, that sort of sense of resentment that, you know, look, you've taken from me, despite the fact I'm right on the law, you've taken everything from me, you've given me a pittance and you're squabbling over even the pennies that you've given me. When I suppose 1857 comes along and there's news of people rising up against the British, that's going to be music to aggrieved ears everywhere, isn't it? Well, yes, and, you know, there are a number of things that then happen before 1857 that make the people of Jhansi and, of course, Lakshmi Bai, really annoyed and resentful

because they do things like they take away the revenues of two villages that had been assigned for the maintenance of the great Mahalakshmi temple that Lakshmi herself is very attached to. They bring in cow slaughter, which had been forbidden for a long time in the city. And we're not sure exactly why they do this. that, but they bring it in and Rani Lakshmi Bai and all of the people are really, really offended by this. They also refuse to allow her to access money, which had been led by Kangadhar Rao, in trust for his son, and she wants to use some of it for the sacred thread ceremony for her son, which is a very important ritual and part of a life of her ruler, and they refuse to allow her to

access this money. So these few things that happen, all of Jhansi knows about it. They are furious. They really think it is extremely humiliating for their queen to be begging like this for money and they see it as an affront on her dignity and theirs. So there is already a lot of resentment, annoyance and anger against the British at this point. So in May 1857, as we know, the mutiny breaks out in Myrout. It spreads to Delhi and Lucknow. And initially, Jantz seems quite quiet. but on the 5th of June, a full month after all the breakout in Delhi, the sepoys of

Jancy Mutiny. And they seize the star fortification and they also seize the treasury. And the British community, of which are about 60 Europeans, it's a small force, take shelter in the main Jansi fort, which the poor old Rani had just vacated, the mutineers surround them, the siege grinds on, the British starving and desperate. but there's only 60 of them anyway, agreed to negotiate, and they're granted a safe passage, a surrender, and they believe that the sepoys will look after them.

But as at Kanpur, the promise of a safe passage is not on it. Now, Ira tell us, is that anything to do with the Rani at all? Do we have any evidence linking her with any of this? So this is something that, as you can imagine, historians have thought a lot about and, you know, picked at all the information, at all of the sources. And I think the consensus today is that, and even at the time, the first few letters and, you know, communications that come out from the British is that the Rani has nothing to do

with any of this. She is holed up, quite terrified herself, surrounded by the Sipohis herself. She is being threatened by them. They want her to hand over money and arms and ammunition to them and they have a very strategically important threat to hold over her is that they will bring in another member of the same Nivalkar family which has many cousins and nephews and, you know, brothers all vying for the throne of Jhansi and they threaten her with bringing in another such man, a man who is willing to pay them and install him at Jhansi. I certainly found the same when I was looking at the mutiny in Delhi that there was a strong urge with nationalist historians to make it a very unified national project. Everyone was rising up. In actual fact,

the aristocracy is terrified of the mob. They, you know, rather like the French are aristocrats in 1789 being afraid of all the people running around with guillotines. This lot do not want a bunch of rural peasants, which is what the British sepoys are recruited from, running the show and putting pressure on them. And Hakeh Masunullah Khan, Garlib, the emperor himself, Zaffa, are all frightened of the mob? And you would say the same situation probably in Jansi initially.

I would say it was very similar and I think another thing to remember about Lakshmi Bai is what is more important to her more than the British, more than British versus Indian is being allowed to rule Jhansi. She wants to rule,

she feels herself capable of ruling, she feels herself in a position to be able to rule the people who love her quite clearly. She spends the few years that she is in Jansi ruling. You know, she does all kinds of things to make the administration of the city

much more efficient. She, you know, holds soup kitchens. She gives money. She builds roads, bridges, all kinds of things that you would expect a ruler to do. She wants to be left alone to rule Jansi. That is what it is. She does not at this point, I think,

certainly want to be a nationalist icon of, you know, independent India of any sort. But there's also, I mean, there's another factor at play. I mean, Willie just touched on this, but there is this fear that, you know, if the mob rises up, they could sweep even you away, you know, however many soup kitchens you've put up. They're behaving in a way that, to her, would seem barbaric. You know, they're threatening her child, the child that she loves. And then something else happens. I mean, Willie mentioned that there is this very small presence in the fort of 60 Europeans. I mean, I should say, you know, they're not a fighting force. There are men, women and children here again. And on. And, On June the 8th, something really specifically awful happens, that the British, just as they were in Karnpur, are told, you know what, we'll let you go, just get out. We'll let you go. We'll escort you, we'll take you to safety and you just leave, just leave. But instead, what they do, just as in Karnpore, is they round up these men, women and children. They take them to a place called Jokunbar, it's a garden.

And there, again, as in Karnpur, a horrific massacre takes place which kills every single person in that group. I mean, tell us a little bit about that. And what is the Rani's overview? Because I'm thinking, you know, she's already really fed up with these guys who are threatening the inheritance of her son and threatening her and wanting her fortune. And then she sees what they are capable of to women and children. So what do we know about that period and her part in it or even watching or reacting to it? So it all happens rather quickly. They are besieged for only three days before they ask for a truce.

There's only 60 of them, as you mentioned. I think only four are military men. So there's not much of a fighting force, you know. So they don't want to be hold in there forever with the, you know, being besieged like this running out of food and water. Initially they had a few servants with them. But over the course of the three days, the servants are taken away. They are killed when they are sent out.

and the few remaining soldiers with them go over to the other call. They go over to the Sepahis who are, you know, uprising. So the situation becomes very desperate, very quickly. It is said that they send a messenger to the Rani's, you know, palace. At the time she is holed up in her palace outside Jansi Fort. And this messenger is arrested by some of the Rani's servants and killed. So whether the Rani herself is getting a direct message, we don't know. whether she doesn't want to or is not able to is something we will never know, but she doesn't do anything.

So these people eventually after three days come out of the fort, having been promised safe passage. Now, this is an interesting phrase as well. We are told they are offered. They would not have come out if they hadn't been offered safe passage. Now, who offers them safe passage? Is it the Rani? Is it the mutiniers in the name of the Rani? Are they using her name?

Because immediately after this happens, of course, we know they are taken to Jokan, the men are separated from the women, and all are slaughtered. After this, the Rani immediately writes the same day or the next morning, she writes to Major Ersk, in the commissioner of the area. She says what's happened. She says these violent, faithless, cruel and violent people have killed all the Europeans. They have behaved with much violence, both against the Europeans and against myself and my servants. They have been extremely threatening. They have threatened to blow up the palace, they have threatened all sorts of, you know, aggressive actions. They have taken money from me. I had no option. And please come and help me because I don't know how long I can keep the peace

at Jhasi after all of this has happened. So she asks for help from the British and tells them that she is desperately in need of some kind of aid. And right at the start, I mean, the British accept this. They say, okay, we believe you. If anything, it's a proof of loyalty, proof of concept, you know, that you can have her as your person, your woman, not your man on the spot, but your woman on the spot. It doesn't last long, though, this faith in the Rani, does it? No, it doesn't last long at all. So they said that they have never found, even Robert Hamilton, who was an agent to Dalhousie, said that he never found a single piece of paper incriminating the Rani. So, you know, that is what we have, that there is absolutely no evidence that she was behind the massacre.

On the contrary, she was probably pretty scared herself for her life and certainly for any chance of remaining in Jhasi. And for a little while, it seems like the British believer, they tell her to take over the running of Jhasi, that things are in a turmoil and she must do what she can to maintain the peace and look after the state. And then it sort of goes silent. So Lakshibai at this state comes back into the fort. She claims the fort again, and she resumes the front again. and she resumes the running of Jhansi for a little while. But very soon the vulnerability of her position becomes clear

because she is attacked not by the British but by her own neighbours. So as we were discussing in the beginning, Jhansi is a small Maratha kingdom in a sea of Bundelka and Rajpur territory. These are the guys who've been in charge of this area for many generations and the Marathas have only come in in the last 30, 40 years. That's right. So since the 17th century, You know, our friend, Birxing Deo, who was a friend of Emperor Jahangir, before he became Jahangir and he was Prince Salim.

So they established these forts, the Bundela's. Yeah. So these guys invade her territory and she is forced to raise an army herself to defend herself. That's right. So she is almost immediately attacked by the Rani of Orcha, the neighboring state, much bigger. She's run by Bundela Rajputs. It's a catfight. It's a cat fight. Oh, don't say it's a catfight. That's so awful.

These are two very strong women. Bloody cat fight. It's two entirely powerful female rulers who are trying to do the best for their own interest. Cat fight, honestly. The patriarchy is at work here. I can't bear it. Carry on here. So look, this neighbouring woman-led assault is taking place.

Assault is taking place. But what's interesting about the Rani of Chancy is that she trains a female regiment. Well, apparently she does. Apparently she does. She does a lot of warlike things at this time. I must say, Jhani is very well prepared for a small little principality in the middle of nowhere in India and the very center of India. So she starts training her soldiers. She makes sure there's enough ammunition. And it is said that she trains a group of women's soldiers. Though, you know, this is not entirely unheard of in India. You do see it, you know, in various states. In Hyderabad, I came across the Zaffar Putan who defeat the Maraths at one point. The women come down the hill when they're least expected and see the Maratas off in 1780 something. That's right. And often the company of truth who are guarding the harem and who guard the palanquins of the royal women are all women fighters themselves. So it is not entirely unheard of. Cat fight. So the women regiment sees off the

invasion. Rani Jansi is left in charge of Jansi, the sepoys have gone off to fight elsewhere, but the British mood is hardening. Having initially cleared the Rani of any collaboration with this uprising and her letters have arrived and established her innocence, however, this is not how it's beginning to look to the British. And they stop responding to her letters, and she notices this. And she realised, that the British, far from coming to reinstate her, are actually now wanting to hang her. More after the break. Now, this is an advertisement from our old friends Better Help.

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So just before the break, we saw that the British looked upon Jancy now that was actually attempting to protect its own borders from its own neighbours as becoming far too militarily adept and why are they arming themselves? Of course, the British after that terrible Jorkan massacre start thinking with chaos breaking out all over their territories that maybe she's one of them. Maybe, you know, she was lying. She did have something to do with both the massacre and this defiance that, you know, the East India Company is seeing everywhere, like these little fires breaking out. So, Ira, how quickly before the British decide she's the one who has to go, she's the one who has to pay for the Jokan massacre?

So by 1858, I think things have changed a great deal. And the Rani senses this. The mood in England has changed a lot from earlier having some sympathy, perhaps for the Indian cause. Now having heard of all these various massacres, the mood has changed completely. And there is a real loathing for these people who will just massacre innocent women and children. People like Charles Dickon himself launched themselves into criticizing

the Hindus. And he says, imagining himself addressing a group of Indians. He says, I have the honor to inform you a Hindu gentry that it is my intention with all merciful swiftness of execution to exterminate the race from the face of the earth. So it has now become the epic of the race. So things have changed completely. And now I think it matters very little how responsible or not you actually are. Now it's about who will pay the price for these massacres. And very soon in 1858, Durrani realizes that there are no answers coming, nobody's coming to help her or to even communicate with her. She is on her own and she is going to have to defend herself. And the person that the British send against her is actually quite an interesting character.

We've met already on this series a whole variety of British perfoons. But Hugh Rose is not one among them. He is a highly professional, cold, ruthless and extremely efficient. soldier. And he's marching on Jansi in March 1858 with unambiguous orders, crush the city. Sweep through Bundelkan, crush the rebellion. And on March the 21st era, he arrived before Jansi. What happens? So up till this time, Hugh Rose has been, as you are saying, he has been pretty much crushing everybody and everything that he sees in front of him. And he is quite scornful when he arrives at Jhasi, saying, you know, I doubt they would be able to hold out much longer.

Though when he starts coming closer to Jhansi, he notices that a lot of preparation has already taken place because Lakshmi Bai has carried out a scorched earth policy all around the city of Jhansi. But Hugh Rose does comment on this fact that they seem to have made preparations, Not only that, but the fort is actually a very decent, well-built structure with many granulations, with many loopholes. And all of them have muskets and cannons and batteries on all those heights and all those loopholes are manned. There's not a single one which has been left to chance. And she issues era a proclamation. Tell us about that.

The proclamation, I'm not sure it is, you know, it is true. I'm not sure that she actually says something like that. It's too good to be true. It's too bloody good to be true. Shall I read it and then you knock it down and make us all very depressed? This is what we're told, she says. You know, when surrounded by the inevitability that the British are coming, okay, even though she's made all these decisions to make it very difficult for them to take Jansi.

She says to her people, we fight for independence in the words of Lord Krishna. we will, if we are victorious, enjoy the fruits of victory. If defeated and killed on the field of battle, we shall surely earn eternal glory and salvation. And now you're going to tell me she never said it. She never said it. Go on, Erin. I doubt she said any of that. I really do.

I really do. She was not. I think even at this point with the men, you know, with the forces lined in front of her, I don't think she was looking for fantastic death in battle and salvation. And I doubt, you know, Durga and Lakshmi were her dainties. I doubt she would have been both, Krishna. Yes, he's a blanche. And I'll tell you why, he's a bloke.

And I'll tell you why, in the months leading up to the siege, she does a lot of what I would call morale boosting in the city. And she carries out this huge ceremony called a kum kumhaldi ceremony when she learns of the people fleeing from the city before the arrival of heroes' forces. And she thinks she needs to find a way to get the people to stay, to be behind her, to live in their city so that she has something to defend.

And she holds this enormous celebration in which married women are invited into the fort. There's a whole dozens and dozens of women line up next to the Rani to greet them, rose petal with perfumes, and they come into the fort and they feast and they celebrate this occasion. Every day they are Durga puja.

So she arranges for a puja to the deity Durga, who is the goddess. Goddess of power, right, if you don't know who she is. Exactly. So she is praying to Shatty. So if she were to make any proclamation, it would be her name of Durga or Shakti, you know. So I'm very suspicious about this proclamation. But nonetheless, no doubt she gallivants, you know, she gets her forces to gather around her.

She's very good at this. She has done this for months to inspire her leadership. She is there amongst the men. We are told that the besieging forces see her on the ramparts. Once the fighting starts, she's there encouraging her men, making sure the batteries are repaired, making sure breaches are repaired as fast as they can. So she is in the thick of the action. And I think that is the greatest encouragement that she can give her people rather than a declaration,

which is, you know, quite suspicious. She is there. She has shown her people that she is willing to live and die alongside them. Yeah. And I mean, the imagery of the comic books and, you know, everything that we started is that she's dressed as a warrior. You know, she puts away the diaphanous, you know, saris and veils and all of that's gone. She's dressed like a fighter.

But still, you know what, this is difficult. You know, Rose is a, what we haven't mentioned is that he is a veteran of the Crimean War. This is a fighter who is a good fighter who knows his business. So it really does look as though, you know, she will be crushed. And if she's crushed, then she'll be executed. It'll be the end for her. One of the soldiers writes that there's no longer a day or night that, fighting can continue for 24 hours because now there are fires being lit up everywhere.

So when a shell falls onto, say, firewood or grass, then that it bursts into flames, there are lots of little flames all around Jhasi Fort and the city of Jhasi. So the place is lit up day and night. So it's a vision of hell by this point. And suddenly the Rani hears because she has been sending out, you know, signals for help, for various people to come and help her. And a few of the smaller parties do come to her. which then she hears about the arrival of Tantia Tope,

who is this great guerrilla general, who has already had enormous success and who has become a folk hero of sorts. Who's also a marata too, very much on her side rather than the Rajputs of Orchard, so on. Exactly, very much on her side. So when the forces being besieged inside Jansi from the parapets in the distance,

they can actually see Tantia Tope's forces. And he has an enormous force. And apparently, according to the soldiers, again, a huge hurrah of celebration rings out from the fort because the people are so delighted to see Tantia Tope. They know that he is their ally. He has come to rescue them. And there's this huge sense for a little while of relief of having somebody else they can count on. But it doesn't go well. Rose, in this very tricky position with enforcers in front of him, pulls off a remarkable strategic maneuver. Remarkable, really remarkable. He is able to turn around, outflanks them, and with lightning speed, he basically pushes them away. I think despite Tantia Topes' forces being very substantial, most of them, 90% are raw recruits. So they are very scared when they face this massive barrage of Hugh Rose's guns and officers and men, and they are dispersed.

And it is a moment, I think, of utter desperation at this time for the Rani and her people. because initially having thought, okay, we will be rescued, we can do this together. There is utter, utter despair because not only have they been dispersed, but they have seen again the power of this British army that they feel now that they will really not be able to withstand much longer. But there is clearly this consensus amongst the entire population of Jhansi that they will fight to the end, you know. So it's really this fight unto the last of.

everybody concerned in Jhasi and they meet this resistance at every point it is hard work for them to get up to the fort. And also let me just describe what hard work actually means because again, as we've seen, you know, this the devil's wind, as they call it in Delhi or, you know, this red mist, this flow of blood through the streets. Basically, the British are bayoneting anyone that they find. Civilians, it doesn't matter, whoever. It doesn't matter. It does not matter at all. And you've got sort of the Rani's personal guards, and this is sort of testament to, you know, her charisma as a leader. They form this, you shall not pass war. And to a man, they are cut down. At this point, though, this is where many of the comic books kind of, you know, really sort of build the part here. And if you can tell me again. So as the story goes and as the sort of comic book picture is, on the night of April the 4th, she takes her adopted some.

the mother are, and she straps him to her back, and she escapes the fort. She jumps from a parapet onto a waiting horse, and the horse jumps over all of these, you know, sort of bits of debris and ramparts and gallops off and taking our heroin to freedom. The horse even has the name, doesn't he, Badal. Badal the Cloud. That's right. Badal the Cloud. All right, how much of that is bullshit, if I may put it that way? Most of it, Anita. Thank you. Great. All the best bits of this story are rubbish. No, it's not sad. It's not sad. It's even better. It's even more heroic because it's one thing to just blindly, you know, kind of jump off the fort like this. But it is another thing to face despair. And we are told by the same young Brahman Vishnu Bhat Ghotezai who is passing through Jhansi at this time, they are all holed up inside Jhasi fought, all the non-combatants, if you like, the Brahmins, the women.

They are all in this underground shelter of the fort. And he says that when the walls are breached, when they hear this huge noise deafening roar of the battle, when they hear the cries of the cattle who are dying, the dogs are howling and all this, you know, this vision of hell, there's a moment that night that the Rani is desperate and desolate. And she has given up all hope. And she gives up hope.

And she suggests to her followers that they escape as well. they can and that she will blow herself up with her fort, that she refuses to go on any longer. And to me, this seems very poignant because this is a human frailty. We can all empathize with this, that we are not all born magnificent warriors. We have to find it within ourselves. So she has a counsellor who advises her against this. And then, so what she devises then instead is that while the British soldiers are at this point apparently drunk on loot, because they have come upon, of course, the palace.

of the Rani, they have found all this jewelry, all the statues of the gold and the bronze and all the enormous amount of wealth that they see around them. It is a day of absolute anarchy and plunder and mayhem and bloodletting and they are in this state of stupor. And so the Rani with a few hundred followers is able to, at the middle of the night, tiptoe out from a gate and basically walk over the fallen, stupor-ridden soldiers and make their way out of the fort. And the next morning, Hugh Rose, is absolutely horrified to discover this. Ira, what's your source for that? Bonkers.

Yeah, how do you do that? It's the Vishnobhat Goetzee. So she, he gives this much more human version. Yeah. Much more, yes. And he says that she was that night extremely disheartened, crestfallen, desperate, and she has a moment of complete despair. So that's the long night of the heart, but I'm just trying to imagine how you tiptoe

with a few hundred people over sleeping soldiers. I mean, to me, you know, jumping over a wall on Barthel, the horse, you know, the flying horse, I mean, that seems almost as credible as leading these people over sleeping soldiers. Poor Badal would have definitely broken all four of his legs and the Queen would have died as well. it is a very high wall. It is a much larger afford than we imagine when we look at the Amar Chitaka comics.

So that is patently impossible and as well for her followers to have done the same thing like an Olympic sport. So instead, what is much more likely and we can imagine that this would be true when we understand the sort of plunder, the sort of madness that came over the men, whether in Lucknow, whether in Kankpur,

when they come into this mode of retribution, you can read it in the soldiers accounts that they become almost demonic in their search for justice and vengeance. And they become drunk on the sense of them having achieved victory. And I can fully imagine that they would be drunk also literally and lying in the state maybe one of the entrances. Because this is a very huge fort with many, many gates. One of them had fewer alert, sipahis or men guarding it.

The fact is she left in the middle of the night with a number of followers. A number of followers and they were horrified to find them. The lesson I'm taking from you here is don't get your history from a comic book and I hear you. That's fine. All right. It's fine. So where does she go? Where does she and her followers go and what happens next?

So things at this point for the Rani, of course, she has, you know, given up everything. This is the time from, I think, in my mind where she has finally given up Jhasi. Having left it in this manner as a warrior, she knows there is no going. back. The British now will never forgive her. There is, you know, nothing to be saved. They keep riding on through the day. A few of them, because obviously Hugh Rose, when he discovers this, he is horrified and furious and sends off a party to capture her. And they come very close because they kill some of her men and they find her tent, you know, which almost in those, you know, spy thrillers that the person comes up to see whether the cup of tea is still hot or not,

whether the person has just left. And it is still hot? It is still hot. It is still hot. The Tent is very beautiful. It clearly is a woman's tent and she has just left. Luckily, she kept her pearls. So she goes on and goes on to towns where there are still, you know, a bunch of rebels holding out. So she goes to Conch and then Kalpi. In both of these cities, there's a last desperate stand along with Tantia Topi. Tantiatopi's turned up again at this point. She's joined up with him. Better late than never. Yes, okay. That's where he had, in fact, retreated to. And after having been defeated twice, Hugh Rose and his men, you know, whose heads are now spinning with the sun,

one shouldn't mention these things, but they have diarrhea from the heat, they are really, really unwell men. And they think this is the end of it, because with Kalpi, having fallen a very, you know, a substantial defeat at this time, they feel it is now all over. But it actually is at this point that the rebels make this incredible decision that nobody is expecting. So they have been going on a path from Jansi headed northeast, vaguely towards Lucknow. So it is as if Hugh Rose is sort of herding them, you know, like a sheep dog, herding them along a northward path, clearing all of Bundelkhand up to Lucknow. But instead, at Kalpi, they do a hard left and they head west straight across the country to Gwalir.

Now, nobody was expecting this. I think the British certainly were not expecting this. It's a fantastic fort. It's one of the great forts of India. Exactly. It is not a fort to be lost to this bunch of, you know, vagrant rebels as far as the British are concerned. But they do land up in Gwalier. And this astonishing thing happens is that while the king, Jayaji Rao, Sindia is very loyal to the British and he in fact escapes to the British in Agra, all his troops, Tantia Tope is able to, you know, charge. them up to the extent that they come over to the side of the rebels. This importantly is another Maratha army. So Tantia Topee is appealing to his own people at this point, as is Lakshmi Bai.

Exactly right. So these people now have this, you know, very important army. They are delighted. The rebels, obviously, Tantia Tope. Fortune favors the brave. Yes. Raul Sahib, they can't believe their luck. and they spend a few days feasting and banqueting inside the fort of Gwalir.

Meanwhile, Lakshmi Bai has a very bad feeling about all of this. She doesn't think that Hugh Rose is going to let this go so easily, and she decides not to stay within the fort of Gualtier. It is also said that these rebel leaders do not give her the sort of authority that she would want, that she perhaps asked for a unit to command she wanted to fight at the head of her forces, and they wouldn't allow that. So she stays away from the fort. They stay inside the fort.

She is outside in an area called the Foolbag. And with 300 of her, I think these are the Vaili forces, the Afghan forces. They keep patrolling Gawleyer. And that's when they come across a force sent by Hugh Rose. I think it's the 8 Hazars, and they are the ones who finally kill her in action. Hang on. No, no, wait. And I'm not taking it from a comic book.

But you can't just say killed in action because this is one of the big things that lends itself. Another set piece. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. So tell me, I mean, what do we know about the manner in which she died? Because again, there's so much that's been slapped onto this, you know, idea that right till the end, bleeding and broken, she's still defiant to her very last breath.

I mean, what do we know about how she was killed? So what we know about her now at this point is that she is very much the warrior who. that we imagine from legend. She is wearing her Jodpur's, she's wearing her Kamabund, she's got her talwares, you know. She does have a beautiful pearl necklace that is given to her from the treasury of the Sindhya's. But she's on her horse and she is continuously patrolling. So she has her tents where she spends her days outside of Gawalia Fort in a condition, you know, which would have been very difficult for her as a queen who has been, you know, raised as a queen in Jhasi. But she lives in her tense and she keeps patrolling the area because she is very anxious about the arrival of any British

forces. Is she effectively acting as the first line of defence? Is it a small force or is this Hugh Rose's sort of enormous army? It is not the whole huge force. It is a reconnaissance army. It is the 8th Hassas. So these cavalrymen have been sent out to see what is happening and to see the lay of the land and she is kind of doing the same thing patrolling at her end. And she has run right. into them. And they think it's a party come to attack them. They attack immediately. And we have several accounts. Difficult to say which one is exactly correct because the Hazas themselves at this point, even after they have killed her, don't know that they have killed her. They think she is a man. She is dressed like a man. One of the accounts say that all we could make out was that this

little force of rebels was fighting and then they start to retreat in chaos, in absolute mayhem. there's only this one small figure who tries to, you know, encourage them to remain. We couldn't make out who that figure was. That's interesting. So they do say that there's one tiny thing who they think is just one of the young soldiers who's there is rallying the troops saying, do not run, turn around, stand and fight. Okay, either she is sabred through or she is shot by a pistol. We don't know whether.

But she's wounded. She doesn't die immediately, ERA, because, I mean, that's important. So she does have last words, right? No, no, no, no. We don't know if she dies. I'm so sorry, Anita, I seem to be disappointing you at every stage. Your comic is going to be very disappointing. Wow. I've learned it. I've learned a valuable lesson. All right. Okay, so what do we know then? What a witness has are from the time who was part of this battle says that she gets one wound across the thigh or across the back, we are not sure which she turns around possibly and tries to shoot at her assailant or reaffir. out for him and then she is hit point blank on the head.

So possibly she may have died very immediately or very soon afterwards. Her body is taken away immediately by her soldiers and it is burnt on a pyre almost immediately to maintain the sanctity, not of her pardar because she was not in pardar, but of her body that it should never be violated by any enemy. So we don't know anything about last words. I'm afraid she was probably too wounded by the time she then died to have said very much. Hugh Rose, when he hears about her death, he says, The Indian Mutiny has produced but one man and that man was a woman.

Remarkable for her beauty, cleverness and perseverance, the most dangerous of all the Indian leaders. That's quite a recommendation. Yeah, look, we've come to the end of our time together. I mean, you know, it's talk like that from Hugh Rose and, you know, the whole sort of mythology of this woman who's sort of standing alone telling people turn around and fight that has led to her even now becoming, you know, being a nationalist icon and becoming politicised. I mean, let's just spend one minute before we leave era just talking about, you know, how this has played into politics even now. Because when you see a poster of her, you see this cry, you know, this dying cry that's supposedly. In the Second World War, there was a whole regiment.

the Rani of Jansi Regiment, the INA. Right, but I mean, you know, this cry of may apni, Jarsin, Nihidungi, I'm never going to give up my Jarsi, you know, that then becomes a huge slogan for the independence movement in the 40s. Where does all this stand now and do people still fight over her legacy or is it just accepted, you know, she is who Indians want to be? I think the whole imagery, iconography of a Bhaerat Mata of India as this warrior goddess is politicized. because it feeds into this brahmanical patriarchal mode of how women can be. So if you cannot be a pious daughter and a pious wife, if your destiny is to be something else, then you must be Bharat Mata.

But if you look behind the layers, it is a Bharat Mata. It is a warrior queen very much within the confines of bramnical, you know, patriarchal norms. So you will be a woman who will fight. Yes, but you will, you know, give birth hopefully to, valiant sons who will fight just like you, but only for a certain cause and against a certain enemy, which, you know, after the British left India, left just one other enemy to focus on. Wow. Okay. So, you know, you can be rebellious for a little while, but then get back to the kitchen because that's where we like, oh, listen, depressing. But so not depressing,

talking to you, Ira. Really wonderful. Thank you so much for being with us. And where are we going next in this series, Willey? We are heading next back to Delhi, where the siege of Delhi is reaching its peak, and we're going to see horrible, horrible things happening in Delhi, but it's one of the great stories of Indian history. If you don't want to wait, you know what you can do, just go to Empirpodukk.com. If you become a member of the club, you get all these episodes in a mini-series altogether to listen to at your pleasure and at your convenience. It just remains for us to say thank you very much to Iira Mukhati.

It's been quite the ride, if not on a flying horse. I'm very disappointed about the flying horse. Nice. Me too, mate. Me too. Until the next time we meet, it's goodbye from me, Anita Arnh. Goodbye from me, William Duremple.