Empty Netters Podcast - 2. The MVP Who Wasn't

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

-Discussing the best MVP seasons that didn't win the trophy          -Jose Theodre is a bank robber          -Rookie Teemu would break the internet        -Stevie Y deserves a statue        FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/empty.netters/?hl=en FOLLOW US ON TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@empty.netters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Week 1 in the books. Wow, just like that. How'd it feel? It felt great. It felt great to me too. I thought there were some electric games that King's Wild game the other night was just awesome. Non-stop action, goals every which way. Up and down.

King's got a bit of a defense problem right now. Yeah. That we've definitely got to figure. We've got to work on that. It's not good. It's not sustainable. Yeah, it's not sustainable at all. And I have some high hopes for them this year.

I remain, they remain high. Me too. That's going to need to be resolved. We're going to start the show. This is going to be a every time thing. We're going to start the show with some burning questions because we're, you know, we've got a week under our belt of some NHL action. A lot of shit going on.

A lot of teams to talk about. A lot of players to talk about. So I think I'm, I got to start off by saying the Detroit Red Wings are, potentially a wagon. It's early to say. We're recording on a Monday. These episodes come out Thursday, as you guys know, so we'll see what happens in these next

three days, but the Detroit Red Wings are showing signs, early signs, of wagon status. Yeah. And I am really pumped about that. I won't lie. I don't know if it's sustainable for them either, but I think you've got to be thrilled

the way things look. Because you felt you know, a couple years out still, Not that they are not even saying that you're ready to call them Cup champs even though you called them that last week. Look for them winning the Cup is what we said. No, I mean, I said the wings are a real, they have a real shot at being in the playoffs. Yeah.

And it looks good so far. Two games. Looks great. There are two games better than a lot of teams. Yeah, my God. And they've just, not to get back on the Stevie Y train, but the Eiser plan, man. You've got Elmer Soderblom coming out here being the mountain

on skates, just dangling through people, weighing 300 pounds and being a brick shit house. And he comes out of nowhere. This is just what this team does all of a sudden. Looking so slick. It's cool. It's unbelievable. So the wings are just, they are my surprise of the week.

In my burning questions of who has shocked you early, early, early in the season here to be a, wow, that could be a bit of a team to watch out for the wings. for sure. They look like they're going to make serious noise. Yep. On the other end of the spectrum, the sharks look very bad. Things are not going well in San Jose.

Sharks are very bad. It's just so tough. I feel bad for David Quinn. I feel like that was a great hire. Yeah. And it just felt like there was a chance that some good things were going to happen. But they lost Bernsey and I just don't really know

what their identity is and they're off to a O and four skid, which is so brutal. Hopefully, by the time this episode comes out, they'll have a couple wigs under their belt. You dobs them. But I mean, God, start an 0-and-4. Can you imagine being a new coach?

And you look at Jim Montgomery, you look at Bruce Cassidy, come out hot, O and 2, I think the Knights are 2-0-0, Knights are 3-0. New coaches, great stuff. Good job, guys. Won your first two games.

You're David Quinn right now, and you're just down in San Jose. and you're like, fucking Christ, man. We got to get one soon. Because 0 and 4 turns into 0.15 quick. And then 0 and 6. And next thing you know, you are fully spired. You're dead.

I genuinely think if you are a new coach at a team in the NHL and you start 0.4, there's no way that you're calm. Yeah. You know, it's not necessarily, I'm going to get fired tomorrow's situation, but you are like, fucking God, we've got to get a win now. unfortunately there's one other undefeated new coach that you haven't named yet and his name is john torterelle i know how do you feel oh man my phone is you've got some bad things lit up and listen i'm i'm doubling down to the flyers are horrible and they will be horrible but i did say last week i was like the only way this could get fucked up is if they have some like insane 18 and four star yeah and just like dub dub and i was like here we go i'll say a good fact for you there was one of those ones is against the devils

and good Lord do they look just miserable. Extremely early, but that was an interesting. That 2-0 hot start for torts is not looking good for you. And then also a league leader in goals, Connor McDavid. Dude, okay. What happened, dude? I thought he was done. The burning questions, I want to joke to you the other day, I want to call this segment

hot ice because it's all the hot stuff happening across the league. I fucking love that. And my hot ice take for this week was going to be some point totals going around. So A, you've got McDavid with a season opening Hattie, directly in my god that was a personal attack dude and they were nasty and I also loved the uh you know how I was like

actually maybe use had this take but I said his point tolls would be down because they're going to get more scoring and you're like maybe this is the year he scores a ton and I was like I don't know they got guys like Evander Kane like he's going to score a lot so McDavid can't and then I have Evander Kane handing off an E&G for McDavid's tatty and I was like well I'm completely fucked yeah it's a whole good count even know who that guy is he's completely different guy. But David's going to score 60 goals.

I think, it's a disaster. We said it last episode. I do think that he is going for 50 this year. Yeah. Which is a perfect segue. My other hot ice, Adrian Kempi is scoring 50 this year. Dude. I've been banging this drum to go back to King's chatter.

Kempi really burst out last season and he came out so hot this year. He's got three goals already in three games. I'm telling you he's going for 50. He's on an elite line. He's playing with Kempi and Fiala and

they just, or Copatar and Fiala and they've just got electric chemistry right off the bat. And he's scoring goal scorer goals too. He's just shelving inside a phone booth and making it look easy. He's also a no

selly guy. Yeah. And I hate that. I was going to say, if you say you like this, I was about to I hate that. I hate that. He's such a, he scores, no expression on his face, kind of turns and just nods at his teammates. Yeah. Shows love to the teammates.

But he's so far a no-selly guy to the point where I don't really know that I've ever seen him throw out a big sally. And I need him to change that quick. What do you recommend? Do you have a sally you would tell him to do? I am a passion guy. Okay. I want just pure unadulterated energy in your celly.

I don't care what you do. Like stones. You can do the, you know, you can do one fist pump. You can do the double fist pump, knee up. Yeah. You can drop the knee and grab some ice. Do whatever you want, but make it fueled with passion. That's what I need.

When Stones, he had that buzzer beer against the king. He was just going insane. Yeah, he went nuts. It's the best. He doesn't know what to do with his stick. Like he holds his stick and he hits the bench with his stick hand. And I'm like, dude, you're going to take someone's eye off. Stone goes full Ricky Bobby when he scores.

He just has a stick and he doesn't know what to do with his hands and it's just all over the place. Yeah. It's terrible. I mean, to be fair, it was like, the, you know, 34 seconds left. Sick, sick goal. Game winner, but not the best look with that stick. You got to figure out what to do with that.

This one, though, I think I was on so far. Sid's going for a hundred. Are you kidding me? Yeah, it's, it is weird. It feels, that one feels very particularly like a situation where he heard all the shit talk. He was like, oh, look at Sid, demanding the penguins to bring back Malkin and Latang, bringing back his old buddies. They're going to suck this year.

and he's definitely not happy about it. So he's coming out. As it's always been about him, it's going to be health. But God, do I hope he stays healthy this year? Because he is hot. Looks fast.

Yeah, he's doing said things. Leading the league in points so far up to this Monday. And he's also chasing a bit of history here. I don't know if you saw that. Oh, I don't know then. Maybe. If he has a three point night in the third game of the season,

it will be, he will tie the record for, oldest player with the most points through three games, 35 and older. Sick. And the person that he will tie is his old landlord. Oh, wow. That's very cool. That's very cool.

Which is very, very cool. I was dying in that first game. I forget who they beat in that first game. Do you remember? No, I don't. Yeah, it doesn't matter. But I remember seeing, it was like their third goal was Malkin. And it was like, Malkin from Crosby and Lattang.

And I was like, God, that is so sick. Because there's been all those pictures, right? It's like three guys playing. 17 years in a row hasn't had it's like the yankees i think like Rivera and jeter and and uh pasada i think the only other 10 year guys like that and i was like so sick in the opener to have the organization go all that to oh yeah the yotes um to have the organization go through all that to bring them back together and then they all team up for a goal in the first game and i was like well congrats you did it such a good feeling for them they're like fuck you we are so good still amazing it's crazy um

the uh other one that i need to discuss and we're kind of touching on this with the sharks is there is a number of winless teams so far. Yeah. So right now we've got Ottawa, New Jersey, Columbus, Vancouver, Minnesota, Arizona, and San Jose. The Yotes being defeated is brutal for me. Those are the winless teams. Could anyone go 0-182? No.

It's not possible. Okay. But I will say those teams, those winless teams are now in a race to who is the last team remaining with zero wins, and that is a shit feeling. So I've got big eyes on those teams. Listen, man, it's early in the season, but there is nothing like winning the first game of the year. You get the monkey off your back.

You start the season, you're like, boom, we got our win. Great, good. And you get through two games winless, and it sucks. Three games, it really sucks. And now you're in a pattern. You're in a really bad cycle of losing, and you need to break out. And if you're a member of any of those fan bases, I feel you right now.

Losing is a disease. It's a disease, dude. It's as contagious as syphilis, as measles, as COVID-19. It is awful. Losing will kill you. So these guys got to get, got to pump one out. You know those teams again? Do you have it right there?

Yeah, the winless teams still right now, to this date, to this Monday, the 17th, I think. Is it the 17th? Yeah. Ottawa, New Jersey, Columbus, Vancouver, Minnesota, Arizona and San Jose. Okay, so at least... At least three of them, Minnesota, Columbus, Ottawa,

and granted so early. But I feel like at least three of them did not, are not entering this season in Tank for Bardard. Oh my God. Suckard for Badard Watch. Like, I'm looking particularly at Minnesota, Vancouver and Columbus.

Yeah, Vancouver too, yeah. I think, because like we talked about, how was Vancouver not better? Yeah. And then starting winless again, I'm like, what the fuck is going on over there? Yeah. Well, what's interesting, Dan,

is you go, like some of those teams, the sharks for sure, are coming in like, maybe we'll get Bernard, we're going to finish last year. They kind of knew. And then you have teams where you have to kind of get to the trade deadline part of the season where you go, all right, are we blowing it up here? We have a shot. And it sucks when you think you're not a blow it up team.

And then a weekend season, you're like, oh, God, we might be a blow it up team. Yeah. It's like Jersey. A lot of people had high hopes for Jersey. Oh, no. And Jersey's now just starting and they're like, well, we look fucking terrible. So I don't know what to say. Oh, no.

We are bad at home. Yeah, shit. We're really bad again. This is crazy. It's early. They got plenty of time. But they're in that same camp. They have too many good young players.

I think Miles Wood said the other day, he was like, I am tired of sucking. Yeah. So this needs to end quickly. Can I give you one more hot ice? Absolutely, dude. Give me all the hot ice. This is going to be, this is in your eyeball. Okay.

Spencer Knight Early Save of the Year candidate. Oh, and not only did my American boy get a win, but also. it was on against the Sabres, robbing Skinner. I know. Oh, dude, that was ridiculous. I can't believe this is the one you said, because Ottinger has two, I think, 45 save wins.

Dallas is 2-0 and Ottinger won't let a single thing by it. The Americans are the best of coales in the league. So that take is looking pretty decent right now. And even I got to admit, that take was the one I was least confident about. Of course. Because it's a terrible take. That is

the one where I'm sitting here being very happy about how young the season is because I'm like there's no chance that that's but Spencer dude that was ridiculous I thought it went in anyway like you know you can catch it like in the I know but it did not it was unbelievable there were there were a lot of early you know possible blank of the year I mean Ziba's goal in the first rangers game against Vassie dude I thought that one short-handed backhand top cheese double bar that was so nasty I thought it ran off Vassie stick when I, everyone, you know, firing me on Twitter. I was like, dude, this is like, it goes off his stick.

Like, he shoots it as he ramps it up. And I read watched the other angle. And I was like, oh, no, this is just bar down. Yeah, impossible angle. That is another in a phone booth goal. That was ridiculous. They look so, the, the Rangers look just as good as they ended. Yes, which I was not expecting, honestly.

That I, I thought a possible dip may be a bit of a hangover because, you know, obviously they didn't even make it to the cup, but they played some good teams in the East to get to the Eastern Conference final. and then lost to a good Tampa Bay. Yep, yep. And I was like, they might struggle, but they came out so hot and beating Tampa that must have felt good. Dude, I always feel out this way, though.

What do you think about this? Every time there's a huge playoff matchup, and even if it's one game, like Super Bowl or in these sports, like a series or whatever, I feel like they always play early the next season and the team that lost wins this game because they're like so mad and like, we've got to tag them back.

And then, which is fine, use that motivation, get the two points over. but I always hate, and maybe it's more just from the fans, but I always hate how after that I have all my rag fan friends like chirping the lightning and I'm like, dude, they won the important one. Like I don't give a shit about this fucking

October, October game that you just, no way, you got them back, dude. Memory of a goldfish. It's, you know, it's a new season. Last year doesn't matter. They don't win the cup either, but I do tend to agree with you. So, all right, we're talking about these great milestones,

good performances, got eyes on McDavid, got eyes on Matthews, having a huge year, got us talking about MVP's. So today, we're going to dive deep into some of the greatest seasons of all time in the NHL that were not rewarded with an MVP. And I want to be clear here for everyone listening, and actually for you, because I didn't really talk to you about this that much, there are, there's kind of two ways to look at this because sometimes, especially in some of those Gretzky years, there's guys. there's guys that have monster seasons, but you're like, I guess my point is this.

I'm not arguing they should have won MVP over the person who did win with all of my picks. In some, I think that's the case. I'm like, I don't think this person should have. I was going to say some of mine are definitely. Yeah, and I think there's examples of that, but sometimes I just wanted to highlight, this is one of the most preposterous NHL seasons I've ever seen. Yeah. And it justifiably lost to Wayne or somebody.

Okay. But I'm like, I just want the world. The world has forgotten that this season existed. Yeah, look how good this was. And, you know, it lost to Wayne's two feet. 15 burger, which is fine. Yeah, it is. And Waino is such a funny, you look up some of these seasons and you're like, good Christ.

It's how Paul Coffey has a season where he talked 113 points from the blue line. And I'm like, what the hell? Yeah. And then Wayne just literally has 215 points. And I'm like, okay. Okay, I understand. I think it was actually more than that. I think coffee about 130 or something.

I know. I might say that one. And it's crazy. I'm sorry, I brought it up. Well, why don't you do that? and go first then. Oh, it's your turn, but do you want me to do it? I'll go first.

Yeah, you go first and talk about that Paul Coffee season. Okay, so, Dan, as you said, this, and this is a good example of, like, Wayne is tough to get in the way of, okay? Yeah. But this was the 85, 8586 season, I think. I don't know. You tell me. 8586.

Gretzky goes 2.15 with 52 and 163 assists. These seasons are the, you know, the season. the great examples of when people talk about the day of Gretzky's career where goalies were still stand-up goalies, and Gretzky was just doing things players are doing now. Having a 160 assist season, just imagine going... It doesn't make sense. No, imagine going into every game going, well, Wayne's going to have two points. So we're up to nothing already. It's a joke. It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know how they ever lost games when he was scoring this much. And like the secondary

assist is one of my favorite things in sports. I always wish it existed in soccer and some of these other sports because it's cool the way that play shapes up. And I'd love to see the data on how many of those were secondary assists because it's certainly a way to rack up points when it's like maybe you weren't as involved. But you watch these highlights and Wayne, he is creating

the play. Like everything that's happening and then it's just tic-tac-to, boom, goal. And you're so right, dude. People, I don't know that we'll ever see I don't know that we'll ever see 160 points again. I that's a great question will we ever will we ever sniff 150 again and like probably not so had 163 apples dude what are we talking about yeah I mean that is mental outrageous okay so he led the league

in everything one MVP and deserved it yeah okay so this is one of my examples uh Mario finished second in league in scoring with 48 and 93 for 141 okay and dude this just want to point out The 215. Sorry to cut you off. Looking at that era and looking at the top 10 is so wild. Because there are a guy, you know, like Wayne is in the 200s. And then it's like, oh, yeah, this. And by the way, it's always Stevie Y.

Yeah. Iserman, people sleep on how good Iserman was. Because he had a stretch of four seasons where he was, it was like 138 points, 150 points, 150 points. And he's just like a forgotten guy. They're like, yeah, he's a pretty good player. Yeah. Like, well, no, he's literally one of the top 10 maybe players of all time. he was just behind Mario and Wayne the whole time.

Okay. So, and just keep in mind, that is such a savage gap one to two. Gretzky leads the league with 215, Mario second 141. Yeah, I mean. He's like a season's worth point. I was going to say, the difference in points there is now today, arguably an all-star caliber season. It's outrageous.

But then here was the cool part I thought. Third in the league, in scoring, in the whole league that year was Paul Coffey with 138 points. Yeah, third league in scoring, 48 goals, 90 assists. Most goals in a single season. by a defenseman ever, two more than Bobby Orr, one shy of most points in a single season ever by a defenseman of de God Bobby Orr. Correct.

Again, no argument here that Wayne's 2.15 shouldn't have won MVP. But, holy shit. No, I was about to say I will make that argument because doing 138 points from the blue line is ridiculous. It's preposterous. But 215 points in a season is too ridiculous to get Trump by anything. Breathe on again. Yeah.

So yeah. But just like that is. all-time season from a defenseman. Almost 50 tucks from your defenseman. Oh my God. Good Christ. That's insane. So yeah, Paul Coffey, cheers to you, sir.

Yeah. MVP caliber season. Yeah. Truly one of the great seasons by a defenseman ever that is just forgotten and dwarfed. You're a nobody, dude. Sorry. Sorry, man. You might as well have not played.

It wasn't good enough. You should have scored 70 more. Dude, also. Then maybe people would talk about you. That, it is crazy looking at all the oiler stats those year, though. Oh, I know. Like Wayne's crazy, but it's like coffee, curry. I'm messy, like, all these guys are just like...

It's absurd. Yeah. Also, Paul Coffey might be the most untalked about Hall of Famer of all time. It's weird. I do think he is weirdly... Maybe this is wrong.

Maybe my people tell you. I'm telling you... His name always comes up, but it never comes up first. Like, who were some of the best defensemen of all time? It's like, people say Bobby Orr, they say Ray Bork, they say Nick Lodstrom. Yep. They say Al McGuinness.

They say Paul Coffey. Pronger, Chely. Yeah. And they say Paul Coffey. But no one's ever like this. Well, Paul Coffey, for sure. And he might, well, I mean, or is the best player to ever live.

But then Paul Coffey might be too. He might be. But I don't know. I wouldn't say that. But he might be. Okay. My first one, this is a important one to me. Because this was my guy.

My first one is Jerome McGinla in 2001, in 2002. Jerome McGillah, people forget one of the most electric players in the early 2000s, completely carrying that Calgary Flames team, doing everything he possibly could to get them to a cup, just could never do it.

Then went cup chasing and it broke my heart how he just kept going to teams and then losing to the team that he was just at and it was just horrible. But in 0102, he never hit 100 points, but in this season, 96 points led the league. 52 goals led the league.

So he won the Art Ross and the Rocket Richard Roshar trophy. Dominant season from him. And he lost to fucking Jose Theodore. And the thing that blows my mind is they gave Jose Theodore the fucking MVP of the league and he wasn't even the best goalie that year.

Dude. He, in major goalie statistics, Patrick Waugh led the league in goals against with 1.94. had a save percentage of 0.925 and 9 shutouts. Theodore had a goals against average of 2.11, led the league in save percentage with 0.931,

which is just barely above Waugh, and then seven shutouts. So Patrick Waugh is just better than Jose Theodore that year. And they were like, well, you're the MVP over a Ginnla. Dude, when I was looking these up, these seasons up, I see Iggy's year. He's the man, you know, awesome year. And he's one of those guys, too.

And a couple of them are going to be on this list, I'm sure that I can't believe never won one. In my head, I'm like, oh, he got one somewhere in there. In my head, he's the same thing as the Timberwolves Kevin Garnett. Like, he was just this guy who really wanted to get his team into the finals, but just never really could. But he did get an MVP. And it was like, yeah, you just. Totally. So I'm like, well, he won, at least he won his MVP somewhere. I look robbed. And I see, it's Theodore. And dude, Theodore, the Canadians finished fourth in their division that year. That's what I'm saying. And I'm like, dude, it's not like Theodore. carried his team to, like, you know, win a great season. It's like, no, they're a mediocre Canadian's team. It's one thing, because hockey is a tough, you know, if you're a forward, you're the one of the best forwards in the league. You only play 18 minutes out of the 60, right? So if you're, if you're

in, McDavid on some of these other teams, you can be the guy and your team's not that good and it's hard. You're not a quarterback. It's hard to just be the one guy and will your bad roster to wins. But if you are a goalie and you're going to win an MVP award, you better. have put that team on your back on the way to a very strong record. That's what I'm saying. Not being like a middling fourth place team in your division of five. And don't give me wrong, man. In this era, Jose Theodore was great. Yeah. But you weren't even the best goalie this year. You didn't do anything special for your team. And you somehow robbed. What goalies have won MVP since then?

Kerry Price and Dominic. Before him. Oh, before Theodore. But the last, the last three goalies are Theodore and. And price. Yeah. Like, I just can't believe the, you know, Theodore being one of the last

goalies in the last decade to win an MVP. I know. But Gindler's career year after he was like, I was okay. We weren't very good. Fucking crazy.

Awful, dude. Yeah. Like, get out of here, Jose Theater. That really bums me out. I think that is going to be one where the NHL and fans alike

will look back at that one and be like, I don't know. I think we made a mistake on that one. Yes. So, so, you know, great call.

This is a, this one is a perfect example of what I brought up earlier, where this one is an argument that I'm like, this is wrong. Yeah. Like my pick obviously is not wrong, and most of mine aren't except for maybe one. But this one is wrong?

This one is wrong? This was an incorrect. Okay. This was Shakespeare in Love over Saving Private Ryan level wrong. Yeah. Just one of the great travesties of all time. Yep. Um, okay,

here's my second. This one is tough because it's a total, um, just, it's a pick that's full of heart, you know? It's got a lot of heart in this pick. People thought this pick was going to make people feel good.

That's what I'm arguing. The world would be a better place today. Oh, if it went the other way. If this had gone the way it went. Okay. And I must admit, due to illness and Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux does not have as many accolades as one might think, or he certainly deserved, based on his talent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not really in the business of robbing him of MVP awards.

I think he only won three only, but I think he only won three. Okay. So this Dan is the 92-93 season, and it was Lemieux's second. Okay. Should have been his third, but I'm sure one of us will get to that later. Yeah. But it was his second. He went 69-91 for 160.

Okay. Which is sick. It's a monster gargantuanian. One of the great years in the history of hockey. Led the league in scoring, or sorry, in points when they are, Ross. But that very same year, there was a, a feisty little rookie on the ducks. Oh.

Wait. Or sorry. The Jets. The Jets. Yeah. Named Timo Sulani, 76-Tucks as a rookie. And dude, he, great year. 76, 56, 132.

I think he was like seventh. Don't say great year. No, it's a decent little year. No, that is a fucking preposterous elite year. Agree, obviously. I just didn't want to sound like I was implying he was second and score. Like, he's seventh. You know, like guys are ahead of him.

You know who else actually had a monster year that year? Adam Oates. He had like 100 assists for 140-something points. Anyway, so it's, Mario deserves it, and there's plenty of guys ahead of them in scoring. But I just think sometimes with these awards, people, there's fatigue, you know, people get excited about new stuff. If a rookie walked in and popped 76, I'm like this, here you go. Not to mention, dude, the Jets sucked that year. So it's not like he's playing with all of these elite guys, sorry, like Lemieux was.

Yep. He's on a really mediocre Jets team as a rookie and just, wins the rocket. Scores 76 goals in the national. I can't imagine how excited we would be now if, you know, like if Badaar, if Shane Wright scores 76 goals here, Badaar shows up next year and scores 76 goals. The internet would explode.

Yeah, like if Baneers this year scored 76, it would be the coolest thing that's happened in decades. And again, this is one where I'm like, sometimes I just need the hysteria to take over. I want the crowd to the mob. I want the mob to will this pick and be like, just give it to Timo, dude. That's the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life.

This gets into that conversation of the MVP too often, and there are good examples in these lists here where it doesn't do this, but the MVP should be the most valuable player to your team. That's what the awards should be. Not who has the most, but it so often does that. And we talked about that's what the Norris has become. The Norris is now just like, whatever defenseman has the most points wins. And you're like, nope, that's not how this fucking works. Who is the best defenseman in the league? who is the most valuable player to their team is how you should give this award.

And you think it's that more than who's just the best player. Not the most points, but just like, this person's the best player in the league, clearly. Or are you like, yeah, but maybe McDavid's better than this person, but this person, if you take this person off their team, they're dead. I think that the two go hand in hand so much. Yeah. That it's not like you're ever, I mean, listen, I don't think it would be fair to say, oh, you know, so and so, like, Bergeron is so valuable to the Bruins.

But if, I mean, there are years where he is in the MVP conversation, but like last season, if someone was like Bergeron, I'd be like, no. He's not MVP. He's not the MVP. Like, yeah, he is the most valuable player to the Bruins. And if you took him off the Bruins for the year, they are afraid. It would be bad. But you look at Matthews last year who won and he scores fucking 60 goals.

I'm like, yeah, that he is in that level of you are amongst the best players in the league this year. and you are insanely valuable to your team. I think that's too. It comes down to a lot for me is the do something special. If someone does something special, I want to reward them with a cool trophy. And that's what I feel Timu did here.

And I know it wasn't a record. Obviously, Wayne's got 92, but I'm like, that is impossible. I'm with you on that one. I mean, that was an insane season. Speaking of insane seasons, this is the craziest one of all time. 8889, Mario Lemieux

does not win MVP because Wayne Gretzky wins MVP. But let me, just say this loud and clear. Wayne Gretzky this season scored 199 points. No. Mario Lemieux, sorry.

Yeah, this season scored 199 points. Gretzky was second with 168 and like we said, Stevie Y, third with 155. But, I mean, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

Lemieux led the league with 85 goals. You're scoring over a goal again. So dumb. And led the league with 114 assists. So he led the league in literally everything. Yeah. Scored 199 points.

And they gave MVP to Gretz. And there's just some controversy around here, in my opinion. There's conspiracy afoot with this one. It was his first year on the Kings. It was, you know, massive trade. He goes to the Kings, takes them to the play out, you know, 168 points. It's, it's, or whatever it was, 160. Yeah.

And we need the L.A. market. We need the LA market invested. The great ones here. But it's just getting 199 points in the NHL and not winning MVP has got to be one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Dude. And it is funny, you look at Gretz on the Kings. He's not playing with the same elite guys he was playing with in Edmonton. He's obviously still playing with great players on the Kings.

You just brought up something good. I'm going to look up. You keep going. It is just, I don't give a shit what was going on in L.A. that season. I don't care that it is crazy to not give Lemieux the MVP that year. Truly insane.

L.A. King's record. All I want to do is just see what the King's record was the year before. The year before? What year was that again, Dan? That was 8889. 8889, his first year.

Because, dude, oh, and this is what I wanted to ask you, too. I wonder, I doubt it, but I wonder if the writers those picks are recorded somewhere, those votes. You know in baseball hall fame? It's like they can show it. I would love to see that.

Because I'm like, who voted for Wayne and explain yourself immediately? And it's one of those things where you got to wonder, were people watching that season and was it actually so noticeable of like, holy shit, Gretzky is completely carrying this King's team. Right.

There's no if ands or butts about it. Or if it was like a, yeah, but I mean, are you saying what Lemieux is doing? Because it's not like, you mean, some of these Oates years, like we talked about, where Oates has 120 assists. That's amazing, but it's also like that's so many assists. Lemieux's literally scoring every game. He has 85 goals.

114 assists. I'm like, how the fuck does this guy not win MVP? 87-88 Kings went 30, 42, and 8. Okay. And then the 8889 Kings went 42, 31 and 7. Okay, good swing. Yeah. But at the same time, I'm like,

I don't think that that is shocking. They got fucking Wayne Gretzky. Of course, they're going to make it into the playoffs. Best player to ever live. It's not like they're like, yeah, we had 60 wins that year. Insanity. Yeah, there's a conspiracy there for sure. You're 100% right.

There's no way that that wasn't affected by the circumstances. This is Tom Foolery. Some Tom Foolery has taken place. It's Jack Astry is what it is. That was a lot in a row for him, eh? Like, that Wayne won eight in a row at one. Yeah, it was something like. that. I wonder if that was the stretch.

An absolutely absurd run. Absurd. That'll never happen again. Okay. I'm going to take this one, Dan, and you've kind of already brought it up, but I still want to defend it because I want to. It's the same year, and it's the guy you mentioned. Izerman. And I'm going to defend it, actually, even though this is insane. So you think Izerman should have won? Yeah. Oh, my God.

No, no, no. It has to go to win. One 99 is too big. But I just want to explain why I think this is a cool thing. Oh, yeah, sorry. This is why I want to defend this because I think it's a cool thing. Yeah. So, I mean, you already said it, 199, 168, Eisman, 3rd, 155. 65 goals, 90 assists. 65 goals is stupendous, obviously. Stevie Y, but he goes like this, 45 even strength goals led the league.

Mario had 40, I think. I think 41. Okay, because he gets like 30-something. That's not a big enough difference for me. But, no, but being a five-on-five killer is sick. Yeah, but that's not a big enough difference for me to be like, yeah, good point, dude. I'm not saying he should have won. I'm just saying this is a season that he led the league in even strength goals.

He scored 65 of them, oh, total. He deserves to be recognized. And I also, the reason I brought this one up to is this is another guy. I cannot believe never won. I know. It's just a product of the time you played in, dude. Like, you played with the two greatest players all time. And I don't know if you remember this.

You probably do, because you were more tapped into them back then we were little. But I can't believe better off one. Like he got one. I know. I looked that up and I was like, this is wrong. Like Stevie won once and certainly Federer never did. You remember, Eisenman is like Federoff's better than me. Yeah, but he wasn't though.

Like you look at his career, it wasn't even close. Federoff season was actually nuts. 94, 56 goals, 64 assists, 120. But he never went over 40. Yeah. At any other year, he just had this one season popped off and Sergey Federoff bang, MVP, Stevie Y, never. It happens, dude.

Taylor Hall is an MVP. Yeah. Sometimes you just got a nut up and have a fucking monster year for your team. Yeah. But those, sometimes some of those, I'm like, Like, that wasn't even a monster year. You just... I disagree.

I think Hall had like 93 points or something that year. Okay. That's more than that. On a very droopy, limp, limped penis New Jersey Devils team. Army crawling. He just like somehow had plus 90. And that was an example of... You are the most valuable player for this team.

Oh my God. By far. Yeah. Like, if you take Halsey away from that team, I don't even... I don't think they do anything. It's insane. Did he lead the league in points that year? He did not.

Yeah, I didn't think so. No. not. But he did lead the league goals, I think. Okay. Maybe. Um, anyway, just pour one out for Stevie Y. Monster year, dude. Really tough. Just absolutely insane and going up against some real goats, but that was, that was one that I wanted people to recognize. Um, okay, another perfect segue, the year Sergei Federov won. I'm going to stand up for my blue liners here, and I'm going to go a bit of a homer pick here. But this is one for me that I can't believe he never won MVP as well. 93-94

Ray Bork Yeah Sergei Federoff won He had 120 points And was actually second in the league To Wayne Who had 130

Oh wow But Federoff won MVP that year Yeah interesting And what's really funny is Bork had 91 points this year Wow And wasn't even in the top ten in points The league

Oh in the league It was nuts In the 80s Oh it's a wild less dude It's truly the Wild West in the 80s and 90s. The top 10 in points are like, honestly, range from 190 to like 120 is the top 10. It makes no sense.

It's fucking nuts the amount of points that people were pumping in back then. And we'll never see it again, even as good as these skill guys get, because the goalies are good too now. Unless the goal gets bigger, which I don't think it ever will, you'll never see points like this again. Oh, no fucking chance. Absolutely, absolutely not. But Ray from the blue line, 91 points, 20 goals.

71 assists. That's just such elite playmaking from a blue liner. And I gotta say doing that on that Bruins team, like Ray Bork was the Boston Bruins in the early 90s.

They don't do shit without him. So having a 91 point year like that, and you know, the winner of the heart has 120 and is a forward. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, dude, Ray, you got to give this to Ray. Yep.

This is one where I genuinely am. Like, if they had gone, this goes to Bork, I would have understood. But it is crazy to say he had 40, you know, 39 points less than the leader in the league. Which is nuts. Which is nuts. 39 points less. That's a great season for Ray, though, because I was looking up a lot of Lindstrom stuff. Because he's another one that everyone's like, how did Lindstrom not get one?

Yeah. And he's a fucking legend, dude. If he's in the first ballot and he deserves every second of it and all the Norris is that he but I'm pretty sure he was never even over 80. Who? Linstrom. Which is only, you know, that's a monster year, obviously. I think I looked this up.

I think he had one season where he's got like 90 or something. Okay. He has one dominant. We'll have to check that, but I just didn't realize Ray went that hard. Oh, yeah. I think Ray had four plus 90 seasons. That's a big, big year. Oh, yeah.

And by the way, Lindstrom's one season, I thought it was his highest, but one season that he did go 80. Yeah. he ran into Jumbo Joe who went 125. Huge year. Huge year. His only one, by the way. But dude,

you know what I forgot? The year he won the MVP with 125 leading the league in points and assists is the year he got traded. Like he was on the Bruins and the Sharks and won MVP, which is so nuts to me because I'm like, they're like, he's the most valuable player on his team. And I'm like, which team do you?

Like, he's just the best player in the league. So they're like, go ahead. Yeah. But it's actually, that's an interesting. That is a great example of what it's like. well that doesn't really work. Like, Joe, you're a monster. Man, Boston Bruins.

Dude, it's trading the best player in the league. Literally the best player in league, trading my way. That season is such a tough look. Dude, can you imagine being a GM and having that under your belt? You're an NHL GM and you're like, yeah, tell me about your career. And you're like, yeah, you know, I had some ups and downs. I actually traded the MVP of the league the year I had him. And they go, oh, you mean in a little bit of time he grew into an MVP?

You're like, no, no, no, literally the season I traded him. The very season. He won the MVP that. Oh, fantastic. You're fired. You're fired. You've lost your job. Why did you have one?

It's just like, I don't care what is going on with the team. I just think that that can't be a trade deadline transaction. That's got to be like a, okay, you're just going to stay here, continue to have a 128 point season, and we're going to trade you this summer for a fucking shit ton. And instead, I mean, I guess the Bruins got a cup technically with all of those pieces, but years and years later. I mean, yeah, I don't know.

That's a very technical. It's like, I mean, technically the pieces were there, but that is not great. Yep. Okay, my fourth one. Yeah. This is one I'm closing with

that I actually think they got wrong. Those other ones are just some monster years and whatever, but this one I'm like, dude, are you sure? It's not Iggy Theodore, but this one I think got wrong. 2009, 2010. Do you remember who won it?

It would be a snipe by you get it, but I think it was. It went, that went that stretch went avechkin avechkin and then 0910 yes yeah a must be Malkin? Nope no I don't know Henrik Sedeen oh yeah yeah yeah great

great player he had a monster year I'm gonna tell it to you 29 goals 83 assists 112 okay great year led the league in assists yeah led the league in points and he finished first in MVP voting obviously second in MVP voting was Ovi going for the three-peat who went 50 and 59 for 109 so three points off Sadeen with 50 tux.

I'd almost argue give it to him. Dude, I'm such a balance guy. So if you've got, if we're doing, okay, the two best players in the league this year, someone had 120 points and they had 20 goals and 100 assists. and the next guy had 90 points. Yep. And he had 45 and 45. You like him.

I'm like, that dude is better. You like balance. You'll always take an Arnold Palmer over an iced tea. Well, maybe not, but I'll take an Arnold Palmer over an iced tea with a dash of lemon. Yeah, that sounds horrible. Give me a balance. I need a little bit of both. So I'll pause my speech right here.

You would agree with me that, unless you're a defenseman, sorry. You would agree that you go OV here. based on those two. I would probably go over here. And I think, like I said earlier, that might have been a little fatigue. Like, he won the last two. Yeah.

Give it to Saddine. But here's the real rub, Dan. Third in voting, second in points that year behind Sadeen, is Sidney Crosby. Yes. And let's see, 110 points, I think. Oh, no, 51.

Also 109. 51 and 58 for Crosby. So he's three points behind Cidine. And here's what pisses me off, dude. He won MVP over 10. OV1, OV1, and this was the year in question. This is the season that everyone in the media was up Sid's ass. For never scoring.

You can't score. You're the guy that goes 20-something goals, 80 assists, 100 points, ha-ha, here's your MVP, I'm the man. And he goes, okay, goes home in the summer, learns how to putt, comes back, pots 51, leads the league in goals, Dan, like wins the rocket. It's three points behind Sedeen. And then they give the MVP to the dude who did what Crosby's been doing with 20-something goals and 80s-s-st. I was like, this is the thing you just made.

fun of him for. He answered every question, led the league in scoring, had more goals than Ovi, and was three points off Sedeen, and they're like, ah, Sadeen. Trash. That's trash. I hate that. Oh, my God. I hate that. Sid picks up number two right there. It's way cooler that it goes Sid, Ovi, Ovi, Cid. No offense to Henrik, but I can't think of a more bland dude to give the MVP of the NHL to than one of the fucking Sadeen twins. Like, cool. It's, give it to this brutal, dude. Mute. expressionless dickhead who sleeps in bunk beds with his brother. Like, get the fuck out of here.

Yeah, Sid answers every question and tucks 50. You gotta give him that MVP. That's ridiculous. He deserved that one so hard. That one they got wrong. All right, this is my last one. Maybe the one I am most passionate about actually. How?

More than Mario. Yes, I don't give a shit about Mario. I mean, that is a ridiculous miscarriage of justice. just not giving Mario that MVP, but on the grand scheme of things, I don't give a shit about Mario. Like, yeah, you're, you're, you're an icon. You're, you're a cancer survivor, you're, a top three NHL player of all time, arguably top two, you're a Pittsburgh penguin legend.

You don't need a shit from me, dude. You don't need, I don't need to go to that. He doesn't give a shit about you either. No, as he shouldn't, actually. I am, I am not even the gum on the bottom of Mario Lemieux's shoe. Why would he give a shit about me? We actually both have signed photos of him, though, addressed to us. That's true.

So, Mario, I take it all back. Thank you so much. Wishing me the best. Wishing us the best. And cool story, he speaks French to his dog. His dog speaks French. That is actually kind of fun. So this is a twofer.

Oh, wow. You are the loophole king, and I hate it. Danny loopholes, dude. Yeah, okay. I'm going 0708 and 0809. Same player. Okay. Pavel Dotsuk.

Oh my God. Should have one MVP both of these years. So, both seasons, he had 97 points on the dot, 31 goals and 66 assists, and then 32 goals and 65 assists.

The first year he trailed Ovi, Malkin, and Aginla, Ovi, 1 with 112, and then next year it was Malkin, Ovi, and Sid. Malkin led with 113. Dotsuk, just behind them with 97 points. Like, that's not a big difference.

It's pretty big. It's not that big. It's not that big. 16 points? Yeah, yeah. That's not that big. Okay. Pretty good balance from Datsuk.

Yep. He won the Selke both years. Yeah. So in both of these years, he's fourth in the league in scoring and also winning best defensive forward in the league. Balance. Are you fucking my brain?

Balance. That's absurd. That's so good. And in both of those seasons, he won the cup and then, went to the cup. Right, which theoretically doesn't count in the voting, right? They decided to it before. But I hear you in that if you're going to be taking in, and the Wayne thing is a conspiracy, but if you're going to give any defense to that pick for Gretzky, it's because of the

record. They were like, well, look how much he swung the team. So I think at the very least you have to argue for Datsuk here, they're the best team. He's the best player of the best team. He is the most important player on the best team in the league. Yeah. And for me, it's the fourth in the league in scoring and not far away from the leader, really not far. Yep. And is winning the Selke both times. That is got, you've got to be shitting me. You've got.

To be the best defensive forward in the NHL and then also a top four score in the NHL, how is that not the most value? Keep in mind also, this is the era of OVee where they're like, the guy doesn't fucking play defense. Right. Yeah. Which I think is bullshit, but certainly then. Yeah.

He's way better now. Also, Dan, this is a. classic case of the eye test. Just look at the man. I mean, we talk about this all the time. Datsuk is our king because he has got to be one of the most unanimous guys that around the league, you ask players in the league in that time, who is one of the best players in the league.

Everyone is saying the Magic Man. Yep. And never got one. Never got one. Never got one. Damn. He don't got no statue. He don't got no statue.

That is fucked up. That is ridiculous. That is fucked up. And that is the, it's also the most Dotsuk thing ever that in those two years, he just did not 97 points both years. Like they won the cup. He had 97 points and won a Selke and he was like this. You know what?

I'm going to do that again. Yeah. I was like that's pretty cool. I just feel like that went really well for me. It went really well for the team. I'm going to just show up and do exactly that. And we're going to get the same results. And then they do.

They pretty much did. Yeah. They went to game seven of the Stanley Cup. Yeah. Can I give you your Danny Loopholes? I'm Chrissy Honorable mention. Can I give you an honorable mention? You can give me one.

I'll give you one. But you're sneaking these in the back door, which you're also. Dude, if you want to get shit in the back door, use a loophole. Oh, shit, okay. Don't ask for fucking... Loophole is you were supposed to go first this week, so my first pick doesn't count. So technically, you started. This is now my fourth.

Listen, that's not the best loophole, but I am gonna... I am gonna accept it off the top of my head. That wasn't that bad right now. It's pretty good. And honestly, the only reason I didn't pick this one is because the guy who did win is our boy. This is the 99-2000 season. Okay. Chris Pronger won, which is sick.

Yeah, I was gonna say I like this year. It's a sick pick, and I love when a defenseman gets his name on that. That's amazing. But he goes 14 goals, 48 assists, 62 points. And like... This was during the dead puck era. That's a good year, but some of the defensive seasons you're listing here, like, even I know.

But this is the dead puck era. The dead puck era in the NHL is a very real thing. But here's the thing, Dan, to your point earlier, he won the Norris. This year, his first Norris. Yeah. Because he was a fucking hard-nosed-d, and that's a ton of points. That's great. But I almost wish he would just have taken the Norris.

I'm like, take the Norris, dude. That's what you deserve. And do you know who had 58 goals to lead the league, 36 assists, 94 points? Who? Pavel Burray. Oh, yeah. That's a, that's a brutal one. He never got one either. He went 90, like, 94 that year, 96 the next year and like, you know, came third in the heart in both years or whatever.

And he's going up against some other good forwards, too, by the way. It's not like he was the standout guy. But I will say, I'm not sure I'm giving a 62 point or whatever I said, Chris Pronger over the Russian Rockets. best year or you know actually no he had a he had 200 points he since i think he's like but that's a dominant year and you're leading the league 508 goals leads the league and i'm like dude that's one of those ones you've got it you've got to believe that he is in has the same feeling that lemue had is not 199 yeah where he's like how what what do you want yeah i can't believe that that's fucking yeah all right well those are the those are our picks for the most dominant monster

non- MVP seasons that could have, should have maybe been MVP seasons. So you got to wonder if we're going to see one of those this year. And I bet there's arguments we made about it. I didn't really dive into the last couple of years because it's so revisionist history. But there's a couple of seasons. I did. I don't think there are. In the last like 10 seasons, I don't think there's anything that crazy. You know what there's less of, Dan?

There's less stuff like I did with the Isman one that's just worth mentioning because it's so crazy. Yeah. You know, like last year you're not like, dude, Maddie could chuck out 100 points. I do think last year you could be like this how does McDavid not win? Yeah, fair. But I think because of Dry Ciddle, I think the existence of those two is going to continuously hurt the both of them in MVP. Drysiddle won.

That was cool. Yeah. He had a big year that you had 110, way more than anybody else. But yeah, that was a great exercise. It was a great exercise. What are you looking at for this week? As we head into week two, if you will, of the NHL season. I got a couple things.

What do you got your eyes? thing that I want to be I'm gonna I would like to be a continuing segment with you that I'm gonna bring up okay and then I might pitch you a game to watch I got I got all that too oh great okay so what I would like to do is and I'm gonna have someone make this for us but I want like this charity drive bar graph chart that we're gonna bring in here

and it's gonna be the Jack Eichel to 71 watch and dude just so you know Dan yeah he's got three points it through three games Which I think Yep, which I think tracks to 82 point season Which might just be the over And you would be dead where you stand right now It's a bad look for me

Do I have a punishment for this? No, I think you were like you're free It's a one-sided bet I have to get a customized jersey That you get to decide what goes out of the back Yeah He looks very good too Dude, that's what I was going to make you admit

We got to go to that opener against the Kings. I was going to say we went to the King's home opener where they played Vegas, Jack tucked, and he looks so good. Dude, he looks dangerous. He's so fast. He's snapping the puck around. He's also so much bigger than people think. Oh, my God, dude, agree. And you know what else, man.

I love he wants the puck. Like, there's a lot of guys, and sometimes it's not their game, but a lot of guys are kind of camping back door, like, you know, trying to make cuts. He is the guy, every time it gets dumped deep, he's the first loop back in. Oh, yeah, like, give me the puck. Ikel's buzzing. Ikel is buzzing around the ice and he's just like, he's dangerous. It's dangerous for me.

He's dangerous for the league and he's dangerous for me. So we'll get the graphic up, but we're at three games. We're already at three. This could be. Keep the donations coming. We're on the way. He is on pace. He's on pace for a big year.

That's fucking. I kind of, and we might have to revisit something bad happening to you. Maybe it's not, how about this dude? If he goes under 71.5, I get my punishment. Yeah. If he goes between 72 and 80, nine nothing happens okay 90 and up something bad happens to you that i accept those terms okay i'll work on

what that and i hope it happens yeah i want jack to be and i hope it happens you know i want jack over 90 i'm working on that but over 90 something bad happens to you ideal done deal what uh the the thing i want to talk about that i brought up is and you know they've got a winning record right now but i just don't think austin matthews looks that comfortable oh dude dude i think i think i think i think you know, they had a tough loss. They, to the Canadians. To the have to open the air, dude. Brutal.

What? Austin's, you know, not really bury in the puck that much. He's hitting a bunch. He's got, I think he's second in the league through three games with them, with hits. And he's making an active, conscious decision to be more physical this year. Why are you doing that, dude? You just scored 60? You think that's going to change the Maple Leaf's woes?

No. Hit the puck in the net. Yeah. That was working way better, I would say. I think that worked great for you. I also saw Matt Murray long-term I-R out at least four weeks, so their goalie situation is constantly cursed. Dan, that's funny. I just think that we've got to watch.

I'm going to, you're going to make your little Jack Eichael graph. I'm going to make a graph of where Austin Matthews is in North America as far as what team he's going to be playing for by this time next year. What's the swing? Like, what are we looking at? Well, I think he could be drifting anywhere. I got eyes down to Arizona. I think he could maybe be sliding down south, southwest, if we're not too carefully. Dude, that's actually funny.

And I'm just saying right now he's not comfortably sitting in Scotia Bank. He's not. He's maybe drifting a little bit down the border. We should make a slide chart that's like him in Toronto all the way. He's like maybe drifting around. There's going to be a bad stretch where the Leafs lose like six games in a row. And we're going to post that graphic of him just with a nice visor on down in Arizona. and people are going to lose their shit.

Yeah. Like he always, he's in, he's in Oklahoma today. I am saying, I know that I'm, I'm stirring the pot here. And when he signs an eight-year extension for 14 mil AAV, I am, I'm ready for all the shit that I'm going to take. But I'm having fun right now. My favorite part. I'm saying it's a possibility. My favorite part is it's going to happen at the worst, the least opportune time for us.

So, for example, we'll record. you saying something very bad about him and the Leafs. And then like the next day he's going to sign it. Oh, 100%. And it's going to drop, the pod will drop with the news that he already signed out as you just have to make a fool of yourself on the air. Yeah, like you did with David. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, that was not good. Okay, you have a game for me? I get a game for you. Yeah, let's go in into this week, games that I want you guys to keep your eyes peeled for. On Friday, Bolt's Panthers. I think that's going to be a fun little Florida battle. Battle of Florida.

Love the Florida. battles. I think those guys always have big, big tilts. Yep. And then on Saturday, I got eyes on the, and I don't know why. I got eyes on the Carolina Calgary game. Oh, okay. I think that's going to be a, if you're a gambling fan, I would smash the over in that game. I like that. Yeah. I think that game is just packed full of high flying forwards who are going to just be burying the puck all over the ice. Super similar. This this will come out Thursday morning. So I got one for you Thursday night.

Okay. The Carolina Oilers game. I think that'll be a fun game. Edmonton, Keynes, two really exciting teams. Obviously, the Oilers went as far as they did. The Keynes, I feel like, are kind of forgotten because they were just an also-ran after the Rangers in Tampa did their thing. But I thought that, I mean, I think you look at a lot of preseason stuff.

Carolina's heavy, heavy pick that they're going to go out. Carolina is good, and for years now, they've just been trying to get over. the hump and they're gonna eventually oh for sure because they all they're doing is adding too they're just adding good players that's such a good plan you just get more players that are good yeah don't lose good players and then don't replace them add good players add more goals to your team subtract goals it's just smart um yeah that's a good game and then um yeah that's it because i want to watch one tomorrow flames nights yeah but we'll see what happens with that one all right check those games out and then we'll see you guys next week