Empty Netters Podcast - Miracle The Boys Of '80 Review w/ Mike Lupica

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

When Netflix drops a new documentary about the Miracle On Ice you know the guys have to review it. And they called in the big guns. Sportswriting LEGEND and father of the Glue Guy, Mike Lupica joins the show to dish some truly incredible stories of his experience going to every single game of the USA Hockey run in Lake Placid. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Empty Netters podcast. Can you believe what this has become? There was a full 48 hours where I felt like I was like literally Superman. Jumbo loves playing Fortnite, so he gets on the sticks. Did TR show you the sauna cycle or was that all year? Not I invented that. Almost a year now that I haven't taken a body check. That's kind of nice.

Finish tonight with some chicken fingers and a few guineasas and ran into you guys. That's where this pod came to life. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have watched the Miracle Dog. and we had to call in the big guns. We are joined today by the Emmy Award winning, all-time legend, father of the glue guy. Mike Lupica is here, and he was at every single game

of the 1980 hockey Olympics story. Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks. And by the way, I wish I'd won an Emmy. I think my son has won an Emmy, but I have not, sadly. But this could be it. And we're going to get right here.

It's on display. On display in the studio. Yeah, right next to the other one. We're giving you our Emmy. Like that's the Emmy that we're talking about here. Like you are, you are. Wait,

aren't they giving out Emmys for podcasts now? They are right? Oh, they're giving out Golden Globes too. Golden Globes, too. Golden Globes, golden Globes. That's okay. Yeah.

So, all right. So I listen, I'm willing to just take an ascendant course to an Emmy eventually. There you go. This is the way forward. This is the way forward.

So before we even get started, Mike, was this, the greatest sporting event you've ever been to still to this day? Yeah, I get that I get asked that question all the time. I was doing an appearance the other night with Jim Patterson, my co-writer, and somebody asked that question from the audience. And I think they were surprised at how quickly I answer. I said, this answer has not changed since Lake Placid in 1980.

And here's the thing, guys, I knew that night that it was going to be. I knew I knew that night that. Nothing was ever going to approach that game. And forget about the gold medal game. I'm talking about the night we beat the Soviets. And I was walking through the press room afterwards. And it was time to write. And I heard a guy saying, oh, my God, how can I write this?

I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You wait your whole. This is why we do this to have a night like this. It's all the nights when nothing is happening. Those you can wonder, why do I do this for a living? But not that night. I ran to the keyboard that night because I wanted to tell this story. Yeah.

The two things for me as the doc was introing was how hard, like, it's hard for us to process how big this was. You know, I've seen the previous docs. I've seen miracle. I've seen it all. But just having not lived through it, it's hard for me to even wrap my brain around how big this was. for the players, for the writers, for the country, for everything. And there was a quote early, too, that was one of the guys in the intro of the doc was like, what I remember most is how loud it was.

And I wonder if you can speak to that too much because Dan and I were at Four Nations, and we always say that that was so loud. And I can't imagine what that atmosphere was like in here. Well, it sounds like what people want you to believe now, which was that there were 800,000 people there instead of just 8,000 people. Yeah, that's crazy. It's a very small place. I mean, it's now sacred ground and people visit and it's, you know, hockey teams go up there.

But I'll start with before the game, David Israel, who's still my friend, a great sports columnist. He was with the Chicago Tribune then. And he got up right before the game. And he said, listen, I know what we've been taught our whole career. But he said, any Americans in this press box who don't cheer tonight, I'm going to beat the shit on it. And so that set that set the tone. And we'll talk about that game. But when Michael Oruzzioni of East Boston, Massachusetts,

you know, son of a bartender, scored the goal with 10 minutes left. And they speak to this in the documentary, okay? Yeah. It was 10 minutes straight up. And I can tell you, they say what I have been saying ever since. Those 10 minutes felt like they took 10 years. because you still couldn't process that this actually might happen.

And I think they give you a good sense in the doc about just how vaunted this Soviet team was and how unbeatable that they were supposed to be. But now we're ahead. And so they'd skate and do this and do that and they pass and they get hit into the boards and you'd look up in like 15 seconds was all the little laps. And it just kept building. and building and building. And, of course, in those last seconds,

we would only find out later about Al's call. You know, we... Yeah, yeah, wow, that's... And Jimmy Craig's dating around looking for... All of that, we would find out later. But that noise, I have never heard a noise like that, and I have been in, you know, the Metro Dome in the old days, game seven of a World Series, an indoor place.

But this, this... I described it this way later that night. Sports made a sound that night that it actually can't make. And that's what we all heard and felt when it was four, three forever against Soviets. God, God. Dan, you had said when we were watching that the Soviets winning every Olympic gold since 1960 is coming into that is ridiculous.

Like, even wrap your brain around that. Yeah, it's so crazy. and I mean we listen like Chris you can you can sure press through the whole doc as we talk about it but we you know just watching miracle and watching previous documentaries that have been made it's that's that exhibition game that 10 to 3 game I can only imagine what was going through everyone's heads when they came into this this matchup again being like there is literally no planet where they can beat this team and then here we are and somebody said it in the documentary that 10 3 game it could have been 20 to 3 I mean it was it was you know That's the great scene in the movie miracle when Craig says to her, that's my net. And he said, Jimmy, tonight was everybody's net.

You know, and now they get to Lake Placid. And they're nearly gone. In my memory, and I'd have to check this, I believe the Sweden game was the night before the opening ceremonies. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard, by the way. That's not I know. So literally, we were talking about before we started today, they were literally gone before the Olympics started. And then Billy Baker ties that game and all of a sudden, okay, we're in the game. We're in the game.

And as the thing goes on, nobody's thinking we're going to beat the Soviets at this point. But we're, you know, we're hanging around. And it wasn't until the Czechoslovakia game when we just absolutely. I think somebody described it afterwards. We stuffed them in a locker, okay? And put seven goals on what was supposed to be maybe the second best team in the world. Yeah. And then you see.

And now the thing is starting to build. And here's the other thing about this, Olympics guys. This became like the only game in town. The Lake Placid Olympics were a mess. You know, the buses wouldn't run. I think a bunch of guys ended up going to jail afterwards. I had a dear friend Reno Tommaso, the late Reno Tumasi, who I knew from tennis, and he was covering the Olympics.

And one day, I see him outside the press center, and he's just shaking and saying, he goes, Mike, Mike, this is the second worst assignment of all time. I said, what was the first, Reno? He goes, World War II. And so nothing is working except. this team. It felt like this team. All of a sudden, you just say, okay, no game tomorrow, but then they play the next day. And the thing starts to build a little bit. And you start to think maybe there's a chance. I tell Zach, my son, the glue guy, this story all the time

about Jimmy Valvano, when North Carolina State became one of those upset stories for all time in college basketball. And I was pretty close. with Jimmy Valvano and after his Sunday press conference, after they played themselves into the final, we're walking to his car and he said, they keep telling me I don't got a chance. He said, there's only two teams left. I got to have some kind of chance. It's why it's why I brought two suits with me. And so again, now we're building towards that Friday night and the main event and what had now become something because of the situation in the world, because there was something so damn appealing about our kids became um it's like when vin scully called the kirk

gifson's hotel um in a year of the improbable the impossible just happened we didn't know the impossible was going to happen but we had tricked ourselves into believing that because it was sports maybe they could do this so that was i was right about to ask you that mike did you going in you had some belief like of course because you you you crushed the chat That's incredible. Beat West Germany, right? That was the last one before the medal round. Yeah.

But before that game, you genuinely were like, we could win. Because I actually was surprised to hear in the dock. Some of those guys were like, yeah, I mean, it's the Soviets. Like, we kind of felt like we couldn't beat that. Was there a little bit of belief in you? Yeah. Yeah, because, guys, I always go to the biggest events, hoping for the same thing, my entire career,

that I'm going to see something tonight that I've never seen before. whether it's a ball game, the Super Bowl, the World Series, whatever it is, okay, the big final in tennis. So there's enough romance in me that what do you root for? Perfect word. You root for the best story. You root for the best story. And not only would that be the best story, it would be the greatest story ever told in sports. And again, okay, so now we're playing the game. And by the way, we can jump around on this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's awesome. The other game is being played. and the Russians are ahead two to one. And Arrugioni's been telling me, he tells it in the dock, and he's been telling me this story ever since when we've run into each other.

He's skating. He's skating off. And all of a sudden, 10 seconds, 9 at the end of the first period, and he says, all of a sudden I see something flash down the ice. And it was Mark Johnson. And everybody kind of had stopped playing in that moment

except Mark Johnson. And when I've written about it ever since, I've always saying, where was he going? He was on his way to beginning to change sports history. And he picks up that bouncing puck and he puts it behind Tretacek. And all of a sudden, it's not 2-1. They're not ahead. They're not doing what they're supposed to do. Now it's 2-2.

And that was the first crazy explosion of the night. We didn't know that Tretzac was about to get benched. didn't know any of that, okay? But what we knew was, the scoreboard said 2-2. And it's just like Jimmy Valvano says, it's like two teams playing two more periods. So they had to have some kind of chance. And then, and then we come out and tre checks on the freaking bench. And in the movie, and I forget, I think it's Craig Patrick who said, I don't know what just happened. We just put the best goalie in the world on the bench. Yeah. And that became, well, that's been so controversial ever since. But I was talking about this was Zach today. Michigan only gave up two more

goals the rest of the game. You know, and that's why, that's why for all the stuff about Tretjack and Michigan and all the, the goalie switch, there was only one goalie to talk about on this night. Yeah. Because Jimmy Craig was in the process of having the night of his life on the, on the night when they were playing the game of their lives. And he was the story. And, and guys, if you ever go back and look at the third period, which I have in real time, he stood on his head. He stood on his head. And even at the end, in those last couple of minutes, they're coming at them. You know, they're coming at them with everything except Russian tanks. And they just, and, and, and the clock begins to wind down. And Jimmy makes one last stop. And, you know, as they say,

The rest isn't just history. It's the history. Yeah. I mean, it's got to be the greatest hockey game ever played, and there's no question. But it's going back to what you were talking about with the Mark Johnson goal. I think that one gets lost all the time when people break down the skaters. There are so many elements. It's like the captain who was almost cut, who didn't have an NHL career,

who maybe wasn't the most talented guy scoring the game winning goal, the 10 minutes left after they took the lead, the Jim Craig performance, the fact that they forgot to pull Michigan because the Soviets didn't know how to play from losing. All of those things are the storylines, but we were talking with Zach about it last night. The fact that Mark Johnson, your best player, scores a goal with one second left to tie the game in the end of the first period is not talked about enough. Like that is insane that that happened. And we can all say all with almost certainty, if that doesn't happen, they don't win this game. it's fucking crazy.

No, they don't win the game. Again, that was, that's one the spark was, was, was really late. And, you know, and when the puck is behind Tretjack, we're not sure, we're not sure if he got it past him in time or not. And I'm telling you something, if they had taken that goal away in that moment, there would be no arena in Lake Placid still. And they would have had to find a rink. down the street somewhere to play the rest of that game. And then the goal stands. Yeah.

Was that a delay, Mike? Or did they call a goal right away? Because there's no replay. I don't know. They said no goal. It was a great delay because I, in my memory, and I'd have to go back and check, everybody's kind of looking over to make sure that they were going to score the goal. And when they do, and then our kids, you know, they sprint off the ice.

You know, it's almost, they're sprinting off the ice, almost like they're afraid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's tied, tied. If we're in locker room, they can't take that goal away. Yeah. And in that moment, one of my writing here was Pete Hamill, Hamill used to say, the template was cut. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, we, again, the night had changed. The moment had changed.

and the possibilities had now hope had come in. It was hope had come into that arena because, and I think, I think it was Mark Johnson in the dock who went, you know, they fell behind again. I know. I was about to ask that, yeah. They fell behind again. And he said, if we can get the first goal of the third period, we're in this.

And they did. And again, he was there. best players. They're two best players. I mean, Jimmy became a giant that night. Kenny Morrow, who ended up winning all those Stanley Cups with the Islanders, and Mark were the two best players. And Johnson has now gone on to become a great coach of the West team at the University of Wisconsin. And, you know, he was another guy on that team who if you saw him in street clothes, you would have thought he's somebody looking for his mommy. I mean, he got, you know, these are the guys who are going to slay the dragons. And again, they looked like a bunch of rink rats playing a peeway game

at 6 o'clock in the morning. Oh, dude, because they were. They were just like little kids. It's so crazy. They called themselves big dulys. They were little, but they called them, that was their nickname. They call himself the big dulys. And, oh my God, last night, when I saw Jackie O'Callaghan in the post-Inland press conference, I was sitting in the front row. Oh, you were there for that? Oh, my God. Yeah, you can see his half sick face by the time he showed up because what we had heard was he I think he had been selected for drug testing he couldn't pee that's what we

had heard and so he's down in beer so I'm telling you he's half in the bad but it kind of gets there and that's what he said he was from Charlestown and we won at Bunker Hill and we want to hear it somebody just politely said on Jack we didn't we didn't win at Bunker

Hill and he said what you saw I don't want to hear that I don't want to hear that that response I don't want to hear that is so funny. It was so Boston. It was so Boston. It was so Charlestown. Because what I remember is at one point he just stretched out on the table in front of his teammates. As he's with his head, you know, his head in his hand, as he's

answered, oh my God, that was such, that was a fun day. And I'll tell another story about the Finland game. Because I had only seen Herb's comment about you'll take it to your fucking grave in the original documentary. That's not in the movie. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So now the Finland game is over.

And that game, by the way, again, I'm testing my memory. But I believe it was played at 11 o'clock on Sunday morning. He's played really early. Really? Yeah. And of course, they're all behind again because that's what they did. But now it's over. They won the gold medal.

And it's time for the, you know, we're kind of writing. It was starting to write. and then we realize that the metal ceremony is going to take place. And I remember saying to David, Israel, I said, you know, we ought to take a walk back over there because with these guys, there's always the possibility that something's going to happen. And sure enough, you can watch it a thousand times and not know how they all ended up on that metal plan. How they got, it's, I've always said the real miracle. The real miracle was when Michael waved him.

up and they all ended up where he had been standing during the national anthem. It's so, it's the perfect picture. It's impossible what that happened. Yeah, I said it one time. I asked him about the shot and he said, and I think he might have said this in the documentary.

He thought he'd pulled it. And he said, if that puck is a foot to the left or right, wherever it is, he says, I'm painting bridges for a living. And he didn't know how much his life had changed in that moment, but it had.

And, you know, I've gotten to know Rob McClanahan in the, in recent years because he's a stepfather, a very good family friend. And so I thought he was great last night, by the way. Me too. Yeah, me too. And, you know, when he was talking about how Herb got on him, I mean, that might be the most dramatic scene in the movie is when Herb looks into him and basically calls him gutless when Mark could back, that Rob could basically not walk.

the the the the the shot of him on the bench when they were like mike stood like that's that those are i've i've long said that obviously i'm biased as a hockey guy i think miracles the greatest sports movie ever made i think it is as far as authenticity and getting it right really honoring the game of hockey showing good hockey being played we talk about it all the time the it's why shorzy is so good i don't know if you've ever seen that show but they cast real hockey guys so you know, the hockey looked good. The historical elements were so well done. The action, the action in that movie.

I think I saw once how they did it with the rolling camera and they took you into the middle of the action. And I'll tell you something. Yes. Her Russell got screwed that year. How he did not get. Oh, my God. Like. Listen, I covered.

It's crazy. He's so great. He should have got. the Oscar simply for his speech before the Soviets game. And I spent a lot of time around her then and then when he coached the Rangers he became Herb Brooks. That scene in the actual movie where when it's over, he's by himself out in the hallway. It's one of the most beautiful moments.

No, that movie, there's two movies I always say you cannot turn off if you're remote surfing, if you come to them at any point in the movie. One is a few good men, okay? Because you know you've got to. Correct. Jesus, absolutely correct. Great call. I'm a lawyer and an officer and you're under arrest, you son of a bitch.

So you know you're going to hang in until Nicholson gives a speech, okay? But Miracle is the other. And, you know, you guys know my son's act, you know, known Far and Wyatt is the goo guy. My boys, I have three sons. They grew up. They embraced this story from the time. they were old enough because they knew how much it had meant to me. So they memorized the original documentary.

They fell in love with the movie miracle. And they were the first, Zach was the first to tell me that I didn't even know this documentary was coming until until Zach told me about it. And, you know, I called him last night and I said, Zach, what time is it going to drop? He said, Dan, I think it's already dropped. It's already out.

Yeah. I just went in, I went into a room. and I closed the door and I texted Zach about 10 minutes in and said the following, I am crying already. It was, it was that kind of moment and it remains that kind of moment for me. So perfect, perfect transition into what I wanted to bring up next because we were the same way. Our dad indoctrinated us with this.

We watched that original documentary from the time that our brains could process things. This movie came out. We've seen it a billion times as hockey players in 2004 when this movie came out. Every coach you ever had would then do the herbies to you and say again, again, again, again. Like this was a part of our lives as it is, a part of every hockey player's life. I couldn't believe having seen every documentary that's ever been made about this, having seen the movie 3,000 times. This doc was unbelievable with how many new things. And it was like I was just referencing the, I had never seen that clip.

of Rob McClanahan standing on the bench because he couldn't sit because of the... No, I forgot that. I completely forgot that until last night and forgot. Somebody had said that in the press spots, you know, Rob hasn't sat down. Like that stuff's crazy, and it's the audio of Herb.

That was super emotional for me. That's what I want to get into. I can't even imagine for you. It was super emotional for me hearing all those sound bites of Herb because I feel like most of us haven't heard or seen any of that. stuff. So for you, having been there, Mike, how emotional was this doc, you know, reliving? Like, we,

we joked around watching it. I can't fucking believe that Lake Plac had gotten Olympics. Like, that podunk little town, some of the footage was crazy. And then all of these moments, all of the elements, like the check game, seeing the U.S. run up the score and then they start cheap shot and Mark Johnson. Like, we didn't know about that stuff. Yeah, that one. It was unbelievable that there was still more stuff to be told about this, more shots to be seen. It was, it was unreal. I can't imagine what it felt like for you reliving. Well, here's a thing, if you got the sense, listened to the guys last night, talk about how tough Herb was on them. He was much tougher on us. He was a, oh, really? Oh, no, you asked anybody. No, he was being in the ass. I mean, I don't know if

you've heard the stories. He sometimes he wouldn't even come in after, he said Craig Patrick, who's one of the Right. I forgot about that. We didn't get to talk to the players. We'd have to wait outside in freezing cold temperatures to talk to the players. And even the night of the Soviets game. You know, you want to talk about the movie that was within the movie. It was the streets of Lake Placid after we beat the Soviets that night. Wow.

Because it started to snow. It was like, you know, it's like a production decider. So we need a little falling snow. Gentle snow, gentle snow. And the guys are outside and they're dopey cowboy hats. You know, those ridiculous, the ridiculous uniform. But as you walked around Lake Placid that night, because nobody wanted the night to end,

you would see pockets of Americans. I mean, I get emotional just thinking about this, standing on street corners, singing God bless America or the national, just stopping and starting to sing. Not drunkenly, just caught up in this moment. everybody knew in that town that they had experienced something that they were never going to forget. And again, the game was played like at five o'clock in the afternoon. That was the one thing that they kind of made a movie moment of last night because people aren't watching the game

live in the United States. Yeah, right. That's the other thing. In the modern world of where everybody knows everything immediately, okay? Imagine kind of keeping that buttoned up. What did you have to do, Mike? What did you have to do, Mike? What did you? The biggest, what was possible. Well, the biggest, here's what I found out later. Like the anchorman on the nightly news were saying, okay, if you don't want to know the final score of the U.S. Soviet hockey game, like, turn off your set right now. So, I mean, it's not like we had contained it in Lake Placid that night. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a great story because you found out great stories from a friend of yours who wanted to tell you where they were or what was happening in New York City.

wherever they were. A late friend of mine named Mike Pearl, who was the original producer of the NFL today. He's responsible for NFL pregame shows. And he was on a flight from Kennedy to Phoenix during the game. He had to be in Arizona. And they left an hour late out of Kennedy. And is they're getting close to Arizona, the pilot comes on and he said, well, I've got some good news and I got some bad news. He said the bad news is even though we left an hour late, we're still going to land on time. And Mike said, everybody's own place is going, well, why is that bad news? He said the good news is the United States just beat the Soviets in hockey. And he said the plane went batship crazy.

And somehow champagne appeared with the flight attendants. And they had this instant party on like an America West flight or whatever it was about to land in Phoenix Arizona. All time. experience. Like greatest flight ever. Yeah. No, it was, again, all we kept thinking, even as we're sitting down to write our stories is the whole world is about to find out what we just saw.

You know, to use the words of the great Jack Buck, I don't believe what I just saw. And then the word starts to get out. And then the next day you saw the, you know, instant block parties outside. side in New York City. And you saw what was happening in Boston. And all of a sudden, Lake Placid became the capital of the universe. It became. And there was one, but there was still one more game to play.

When the Red Sox finally beat the Yankees in 2004, Theo Epstein, the general manager, had a great line. He said, now we've got to beat Finland and meeting the Cardinals in the World Series. So Finland had become almost like a buzzword by then. And then we fall behind and I will always report these. These are my guys. So I will always prove them as we. And you're thinking, oh, no.

No, no, no, no. Going into the third, Mike, behind. It wasn't like behind early in the first. Like literally going into the third period, you're losing to Finland. I couldn't believe that. Yeah. That's like that we found out last night. It's such a great scene.

is when they tell the story of her saying to your fucking grave and then repeating it to your fucking grave. Yeah. I said, that's the first time we ever heard a UCF word. Yeah. And you would have think the way he lit into them, you would have thought he'd be dropping F bombs the whole time.

Every day and all day. But apparently maybe, you know, that was that nice Minnesota boy who didn't want to talk like that in front of his players. Yeah. It's true. I think my favorite part of the doc was hearing about the Jack O'Callhan and Phil Verkota speech.

I mean, then being in that locker room, O.C. getting up. No, you get chills. No, I still get chills hearing the stories. I mean, I, yeah, I, because, oh, that was the other thing that was great last night, because I have to tell you, Craig Patrick is one of the sweetest guys on Earth. Herb, Herb sent him into the locker room. And I think it was McClant, was it McClain?

And I said, Craig, no, we got this. We're not losing this. Get out of here. I think it was O.C. see, yeah. I think he was like, get out of here, Patty, we're fine.

It's like, that's so great. And then Herb says to Craig, how to go, he goes, yeah, everything perfect. Honestly,

though, Mike, it's like, I can't think of, I can't think of a moment for a coach that would be more reassuring than going into the locker room

and having that be the response and you're like, oh, they're fine. Yeah, like, we got this. Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah, I'm sure that Craig and Herb in that moment were like, oh, we don't need to go in there. We're good. This is great. It was, but that was, that Sunday morning and into Sunday afternoon, I can't tell you the feeling of dread, the longer the Finland game went on.

Yeah. I said to, I said to a friend of mine. I said, we need to go down there and talk to them because they're about to screw up the greatest story of all time. So it's just, if we could just reason with them and explain to them that we can't have this thing go off the rails, you know, like five minutes before the, for the, yeah, fortunately. When did you start to feel good, Mike? Like when it went three, two or was it two,

you know, not till, not till the fourth goal, which I think they had 42. Yeah, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, four two. Oh, no, I wasn't spiking. No, no, it's three, two, I'm not spiking the ball, okay? Yeah. Because I'm already having PTSD on Friday night on,

I'm trying to protect a one goal lead for, for those 10 minutes. that felt like 10 years off of my life. Those 10 minutes, by the way, and I'm so glad the players described it the same way. Being, you know, in the arena, really in the arena was, yeah, we all lost a lot of time off of our lives waiting for that stinking clock to run down. Longest 10 minutes in sports history. Yeah, you said it so perfectly, Mike.

We always think about these moments. us growing up as Bruins fans in I think it was 2013 they had that insane down 4-1 in game 7 against Toronto they came back beat them in overtime and then when they lose that Stanley Cup to Chicago it's almost like that game gets lost in the annual Toronto game yeah yeah win it all and it's like I'm sure it must you know for someone let's not even talk about the the players and Herb and Craig and all that but like I'm sure even for you like it would keep you up in a cold sweat at night until you're dying days if they had lost that Finland game. Because it's like truly the greatest moment in sports history potentially could have been lost to history. That is so wild to think about. Yeah, I, that team in those two weeks and what they did that last weekend, that's like a bank account that I'll be able to draw on for him. Yeah, wow.

Because when somebody tells me, yeah, but you. You should have seen this happen in sports. And you should have seen this. Or, wow, you should have been at that game. And I'll say, yeah, I'll see you whatever game you're talking about. And I'll raise you with Lake Placid, New York, February of 1980. Because I can't even, I've tried to imagine what could be a comparable story to that in this country. And I think, well, maybe if men's soccer, you know, the women have won the World Cup.

maybe if men's soccer somehow shocked the world and won the World Cup. But even that wouldn't be what we saw from those kids in that time, in that time in the world, in that crazy little town. Again, I can't stress to you what pain in the ass the whole experience was outside of those games. I'll give you another Reno-Tumasi line. The buses would not run. There were all these horrible stories about people getting strange. standing for buses in, you know, like zero degree temperature.

We found out that John Brown, the famous abolitionist, had died in Lake Placid. One day I see Reno Tumasi again outside. He's shaking his hat again. It says, Mike, Mike. John Brown was not hanged, was Busset. Oh, my God. But fortunately, I could walk. we had a big contingent from the Daily News.

We had this big house in town. We could walk to the arena. And I will tell you, I've taken some great walks in my life in sports. But finally walking back to that place that night after it was 4'3 over the Soviets forever, that's as good a walk as I've ever taken in my life. Mike, would the Soviets have gotten gold if we lost to Finland? I know it was like a weird, it wasn't just like that was the gold medal game. Because didn't the Soviets get silver at the end of all this?

You know what? I don't remember. I think Finland, I don't know if Finland would have gotten. I think it was the gold medal game. You guys are no better than I. And if you can't figure it out, just ask Zach. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I will ask Jack.

But yeah, no, because it's so crazy. But it was all or nothing for us. If you had told those kids, you could get a bronze even if you lose they would they they they would have taken you outside and wanted to beat you for even suggesting yeah right yeah they were that close they were that close to the mountaintop and and yeah so i'm trying to think now that now you guys are giving me PTSD because now i'm trying to measure how stressed i was over the last 10 minutes or how stressed i was with 20 minutes to go yeah it's a golden medal game and we're still losing. I'm telling you, Mike, if Chris had been alive during that event, that third period would have killed him. I genuinely don't think you would have survived.

Chris is the most negative sports fan who's ever lived. Every single time there's a bad play, he goes, that's it, we've lost, we're over. Sky's falling. Going into the third period down to Finland, I think Chris would have literally died. I think he would have walked into Lake Placid and drowned himself. and not finish the game. That's what would have happened. But it's incredible.

You think back now to the biggest points of life. And you can't, you know, obviously Mark's goal at the end of the first period of the Soviet's game, okay? Obviously, Michael Arrugioni's goal that became the game winner. Billy Baker tying, think about that for all of the victories that came, all the rousing victories that came later. A tie, a tie set up everything. And then you'd have to go back. And I'm trying to picture the last save Jimmy made. But in my memory, whatever it was, it was a good one.

He was making kick saves. Like, you know, it's one of those things where you almost wanted to go up to him and said, you know, you can't make that save. Yeah. Get out of here. And no, it was when I used to joke with Al Michaels, who just turned him out to be the perfect guy for the perfect place at the perfect time.

And if you listen with all, by the way, he loved Ken Dryden, was a dear friend of his till the day. Oh, yeah. But if you listen to the call, Al's about to make the most famous call in the history of sports. And Kenny's kind of talking. He is.

He's like doing play by play by. play still. He's kind of talking. And I ran into Al not long after the movie came out and I said, you know what? Kenny's still trying to screw up the greatest call.

Yeah. Yeah. It's doing broadcasting. That is so funny. It is so true. No, but you listen. You guys know. Yeah. Oh, Mike. It's like, I always laugh. It's like that that call is ingrained in all of our memories

so, so deeply. But every time I hear it, you can hear Al. He kind of screams it because he's like, Ken, shut the fuck up. Like, I'm trying to say something here, pal. There's a lot of commotion going on while he says it. It's so funny. No, there was a lot going on at once.

And again, when you looked up and saw only zeros on that scoreboard, and you said yourself, okay, okay. Sometimes, you know, because I always say to people, they'll say that shouldn't happen. And that shouldn't happen in sports. I said, no, no, no. there's no justice in sports it's not like the sports gods are up there and say well i'll take this one but i'll give you one down the road there was going to be no down the road it was it was that night

or or nothing and and and and they delivered and all those herbies came back and i i love them saying giving you the sense that they knew that they could skate with them not necessarily that they could beat them, but that in the shape they were in, that they could skate with them. And in the, in the real, in the movie miracle, you know, when he does those short shifts at the ends, you know, and, and, and it, it feels like they just keep, they keep coming off the, over the boards and like waves. And it, it all worked because of this man's vision. And again, you can't talk about this story. This is the single greatest coaching job in, to my mind. And the. And the. history of sports that

you know faith is is believing what you cannot see only he could see this only he could see this and and and it's just such a shame he died way too young

and remember that little thing at the end of the movie you know yes he didn't live long enough to see it but he lived it he lived it yep it's kind of crazy like that he never got to

to chime in on the movie or in this like it's because you like you said he kept it's so private during the actual events. It's wild. We never really got to hear Herb talk about it after the way the players have been able to. I think he had some input into a miracle. For sure.

The movie. I think he was. I think he was. I'd have to act, Mark Jardy, but I think he was. And that was, you guys are right, though. That was a beautiful thing having his kids in that document. It was. Because you could see, A, how much they loved their father, but B, how much they knew.

their father. And they're talking about him almost to me. This is what struck me last night. They're talking about him like they were players. Like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 100%. Hey, you players, there's nothing you can tell us that we don't already know. Yep. You know, they were on that journey. What blows, what blows my mind so much about this doc is, you know, to go back to what you said about the sports gods and to what we were saying earlier about how, how great the 2004 miracle movie is. is. I feel like so often we watch movies now that are based on a true story, inspired by a true story, and then you kind of look up the true story, and it's really not that similar to how it went down. Like another all-time sports movie, remember the Titans. If you look up the actual scores of those

games in that season, they weren't that close. T.C. Williams were wheels off of everyone they played. Right. The true, no pun intended, the miraculous nature of that movie, and, you know, this real event is it does it it's the most scripted feeling thing i've ever seen in my life it's like everything that you just ran down the you know that the tying sweden the the situation we haven't even gotten into the situation with the cold war and the soviets and holding out of saying they were going to boycott summer Olympics everything about this Olympic games felt like it was written for a movie right down to the the final scoreline and the game and goal of the game against Soviets. Dan, Dan, I'll add the, um, the telegraphs, right, Mike, like

the telegraphs they had on the wall. Oh, God, that seat is all those, that wall. Are you kidding me? Oh my guys, like the wall of honor. Yeah, yeah. That is like, that is, uh, so inspiration. I don't know that I never seen that wall before. And, but how about just the beginning of the documentary with, with, with, uh, I was talking about was that today? Like, they're walking down the street like the magnificent seven, you know, and all this time later, it was like, really, you were like, even though it was the beginning of the documentary, you felt like you were watching the end of an old Western, you know? Yeah.

Here's, here come the old gunslingers back, you know, to the okay corral, you know, and, oh, that was shot so beautifully. Oh, it's incredible. And you know what? You get a sense when you look at old pictures and the new pictures, a little bit that town is it's like

that town is it's insane you know it is yeah I think that was the most shocking thing yeah

of the doc like looking at the shots of Lake Placid I was like this is this is ridiculous this is the Olympics Dan the Olympics are there

it's crazy it would be like it would be like you know my kids they grew up in in New Canada Connecticut

and it would it would be like they had the Olympics in New Can't and, you know, in Rinks where where Alex Lippa's hockey. Like,

we always joke, Mike, we're like genuinely, it's like if they did this in Biddeford, Maine, and you're like, yeah,

that's pretty much that you can make. That's what Lambos. Guys, that's what Lampos like. I mean, if you ever, if you ever get a chance,

you know, I've been lucky enough to go twice with Zach Lubica, okay? It's, it's, I grew up in Oneide in New York, okay,

in the middle of New York State. It's like they built, it would have been like building Lambeau Field on Earl Avenue in Oneida. That's what it was like having this. And, you know, as I said me before, over the years, that crowd has grown for about 8,000 to about 800,000 people. Yeah. Who say they were there that night.

And that's okay because they felt like they were. But I was. I was. And I'll never forget it. So I do want to ask finally here, Mike, What were for you, someone who lived this and experienced this, what were the most, maybe you could say surprisingly emotional moments of the doc for you, whether it be reliving or whether it be something that happened that you didn't know about, that you were like, oh my God, I had no idea that that was going on. What parts hit you the hardest? I became emotional last night watching Mike Rousioni describe the house.

house in which he had grown up. And I believe his father was a bartender, among other places, it's Santarpio's Pizza, which is all time. I know it well. Yeah, I know it well. Right. Okay. It's great.

Okay. But describing that moment with his uncle where he earned the money to go to hockey school and his uncle wouldn't take the money from him. You know, I'm an Italian-American kid. He's an Italian-American kid. And that was, to me, there were other extremely emotional moments last night. Hearing Herb's voice again, you know, I'm still ingrained now to thinking Herb is Kurt Russell. Yeah.

It's like as much as Kurt got down his, you know, that kind of Midwestern twang, okay, and those horrible pants, by the, remember the horrible pants? those. All the jackets too. I mean, it was all like her, herbie's style was very interesting. It was not going to make any guest dressless, okay? But hearing his voice was most of, but Michael Rosioni talking about his family and Jimmy talking about his mom. I had Jim back in the day, when I was still doing a radio show in New York, I had Jim on a couple of times. And he, you can imagine, he had become a great public speaker by that. I mean, he was. you can see he has great presence, he has great command of the language. And there's something else going on with Jenna Craig, a likability factor.

The minute he starts to talk, and the minute he's not just talking about his late mother, but talking about Don, his father. So, no, about every 15 minutes, I would text my son last night and say, okay, I'm crying again. I'm crying again. Yeah, yeah. Because I get that way when I watch Miracle the movie. I get that way because the thing that they really captured in that movie was the drama of the last moments of the Soviet game.

I mean, that's like a master class to me in filmmaking. If your job is to try to make the viewer feel like they're there, they did that. But so did this documentary last night. Those scenes of them walking in and out of the arena. I mean, how cool was that? That was unbelievable. That was so awesome. Honestly, I weirdly think for me, obviously I didn't live through this, but we have a massive

connection to it, watching the guys watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say this. Having that, it was so brilliant of the filmmakers of this doc to have them sitting on the bench where they played this game and looking up at a screen and watching reliving this moment. Because seeing them turn into kids again was so emotional for me. That was remarkable. Because we had heard, and I had heard once I became aware of it, that this was going

to be like a new look. And I'm thinking, well, wait a minute. What don't we know? What don't we know? I mean, it's like burned into our memory and burned into our imagination. You know, I've always said this about sports. And I've written it more times than I can. care to think about. When something great happens in sports, you do not need to see it replayed a

million times. You do not have to wait to watch it again on SportsCenter. It is burned into your heart, and it is burned into your imagination, and it will remain there vividly forever. So I'm thinking, okay, I was there. I saw all this, and this was new last night. It was like looking, It's like going to a museum and a picture you'd seen before and then saying, oh, wait, if I step and look at it from this angle, it's even better than I thought it was before. I don't know how they pulled it off, but putting those guys in that arena. Remember what it was like watching Last Dance with Michael Jordan? When they'd hand them the iPad. Hand the iPad, yeah.

Be looking at some and it'd get that grin on his face. this was different because as again you saw what you saw in these these faces of men now in their 60s was was them becoming the little boys who had who's whose parents had taken them to the rink at 5.30 in the morning they became those kids again last night what it meant to their families right like they all said that in their own interviews yeah what it meant to my mom what it meant to my family what it meant to my community. That was, that was killer. That was unreal. And no, I think about these moments. And it's like, when you think about these moments, especially years later, right, 46 years later, the first thing that must come into your mind is,

God, I wish I could relive this with the boys again. And that's kind of what they did in this doc. Yes. Yes. Then being able to watch these games, watch these plays, watch these interviews that I'm sure many of them haven't seen for decades and be able to look down the bench at their teammate and and laugh about it again that was I mean holy moly was that special that that was so great and they've had their share of tragedy I mean yeah avid story is extremely sad they've lost oh it's terrible guys and they lost the conductor of the orchestra and and just and and and not because he was ill he just had an accident and and died one one afternoon and that's what i've always felt even though we heard his voice last night even though we saw

kurt russell do such a beautiful job playing in the movie all of this would have been better with with you know with her being handed an iPad you know the way michael was in the last And you know what, Mike? Is it that bad? You know, you can see him saying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, did I say that? 10 pound fart?

What does that mean? Yeah, right? Yeah. You know what's great, too, is you're so right about that. I thought it was so lovely how they did dedicate, you know, the last five, 10 minutes of the doc to all of them talking about Herb and how they were like, I wish I got to know him. Like, I wish, you know, he could have been a friend to us. the way we all are to each other. And I think it was Morrow reading that,

or maybe it was our Rams. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was, yeah. Oh, my God. That was so nice. Yeah. And it made me wonder when he read it,

if maybe all of them didn't get that letter. Same. I know. Totally agree. I agree. I was going on right now. I didn't tell whether he had sent that letter to all of them or just some of them. But that was,

I was amazed that he could even get through it. You know, that. I agree. Without breaking down. Yep. Unreal. I imagine 95% of the people who watch this doc will then go and watch Miracle within the next few days of watching it.

And it's just another reminder to us that retroactively, Miracle deserves like 10 Oscars. It's like, forget about just Kurt Russell needing an Oscar for that role. When we talk about what you just broke down, Mike, like the shots, the way that they recreated these games so perfectly. and then you watch this doc and things as simple as those telegrams not only being referenced in the movie but in when they're walking through the tunnel to play the Soviets you see them tapping their sticks and their gloves on the telegrams tacked to the wall like those little details it's it's so wild watching this doc and thinking about the game or about the movie and being like it's one of the greatest

movies ever made it's it's remarkable it's we you know our youngest child is is my daughter Hannah okay yeah And pretty much with hockey, even though she went to Boston College the way her brothers did, and hockey is a huge part of the culture at our school. Okay. She really doesn't know a hockey puck from an avocado. Okay. And she sat down several years ago and watched Miracle with me.

And now it's one of her favorite movies of all time. And she was, her boyfriend is from Dallas and not really a big hockey guy. and he watched it with her the other night and she said dad it was like watching it for the first time all over again yeah it's the best that's how I feel too like that movie gets me going I can't show this doc to everyone I think he played Craig Patrick

in Miracle the movie and I walked into a coffee shop out on Eastern Long Island and managed to not run up and try to hug him you know because oh yeah i feel that you know introducing yourself to famous people just you open yourself up to heartbreak so i didn't right yeah but he was great and all the young actors who played you know i i forget the name of the young guy who played uh uh jenny craig and it was edy khaill he's Yeah, he's fantastic. No.

And then one of the, one of the actors died. I think Michael Mancruso, I forget which part. Yeah, he played, he played O.C. He said his name. I think one of the actors actually died young. You're right about that movie. Obviously, we're all prejudiced about it, okay? Because we love the sport.

Yes, we are. Or even more than we love the sport. But it was, it was a perfect piece of filmmaking. But again, it's like, you know, this is before your time the old television series mash everybody in miss in mash was great it was one of the greatest written scripted shows of all time but it doesn't work without all the old uh playing hawkeye pierce and and and and uh kurt russell was hawkeye pierce in in yes in miracle and again i just would love to have herb's voice even now going over it all one more time and and

And again, and just saying, yeah, but we, you know, we did it. What's the line in the pregame speed? Great moments are born out of a great opportunity or something like that. Yeah. It's the greatest pregame speech. It's the greatest pregame speech of all Tom. Hey, Mike, how sick is that that they found the card? You know, like, remember when his kids were like, this was the speech?

Like they had that note card. Yeah, no, that was awesome. That was sick. Like a talisman last night. Oh, my God. Yeah. No. Holy shit.

The sense of appreciation of the details, you know, it's not always the devil that's in the details. It's sometimes the genius is in the details. Yeah, yeah. Those little pieces of business were just added to the story. Again, I, you know, I have no skin in this game. It doesn't help me how popular this documentary becomes. but anybody who's listening to this if you don't want to now go see it

then you need to go bowling or something you're right that's correct that is correct it's so true God but you know Chris it's funny that note card that you bring up it makes me think like shout out to Eric Guggenheim

the writer of Miracle because it's like to write that Kurt Russell pregame speech based off of just that note card and I'm sure some conversations of you know how much deeper the speech went but like it's just a master class no it was it's it's and guess what how many coaches and how many sports do you think have knocked off oh my god knocked off that speech in at least in the last 20 years since the movie came out yeah oh yeah is no doubt every high school in the world like like we

are we joke all the time it was like our coach we would give it to us and we'd have a playoff game and our coach would give us that speech and he'd walk out and we would all look at each other and be like, the other team's coach just gave them this speech, too. Like, they just heard the exact same thing. It's all awash. Wait, wait. How about how about after, how about after Herb just vilifies poor Rob McClanahan for being hurt? And then when he walks past Craig, walk out of the like he is, that ought to get him going.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. Oh. You know what's cool, too? This can be the last thing. What's cool to is the, um, there was a lot of criticism about how it was so many of the Minnesota

boys, but it was like he knew those guys. I think they say in this, I think Rob even says in this dock, like they knew what buttons to push for those guys, you know, and that's what ended up mattering, right? Like how he could get the most out of those players made such a huge difference. No. And I do just want to say, because Mike, I'm actually curious if you knew this one. This one blew, this one knocked me off my feet in the dock. Steve Janicek meeting his wife there who was it who was how great was that story what an amazing story and when Janie was like

of all those guys I was the luckiest guy and I had the best experience and I'm like fucking rights you did like that the fact that he met his wife there and and I mean good God I love it how he he showed a little bit of of I don't even want to call it cockiness but a little bit of respect for himself as a player and he was like I was the MVP of our national championship. I didn't know that. Did you guys know that? I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Because I even covered the team, I had no idea that he had those hockey bona fides going for him.

Yeah, yeah. He was the best goalie in college hockey and played for Herb at Minnesota. And the fact that they came into those games and I mean, another one of those amazing stats where he was like, I was the only player in that tournament that did not see a second of ice time. Like that is crazy. And the fact that he went in there and came out of. of it with a wife is the best story of the whole thing. No, I love that story because and Zach Lupica can tell you this.

I've told his mother for years, if she ever leaves me, I'm going with her. So I can, I could understand completely what Steve who was telling you that like the greatest thing that happened in my life wasn't us winning a gold medal.

I got my wife. He got a bonus gold medal to go with it. Yeah. Yeah, like even deeper, Mike. It's like not just the greatest thing that happened in his life. The greatest thing that's ever happened to him in Lake Placid. It's not winning that gold medal. No, how incredible is that?

Yeah, he's gold medal. Yes. Yes. God, that is so good. He left with two. He left with two gold medals. Fucking incredible. Oh, man.

Oh, man. Well, what a doc. I recommend, if you haven't seen it, go watch the doc. Go watch Miracle. greatest sports moment of all. Hey, Mike, what's second? That's your greatest sports moment of all time by a mile. What's second? I would say that as a piece, okay, and not rooting any way to have seen those four nights in October. Yeah. In 2004. Not just the first night or the second night or everything that, that piece. Because in my career, if Miracle is,

the number one story. Those four nights in October, considering who it was the Red Sox were doing it to and what the other team had been doing to them for nearly 100 years. That's probably the second greatest story I've ever gotten to cover. And it was, I'll tell you one quick story about that, and then we'll go. So I have my boys with me, and they go to game. uh four okay and but they they it's been decided the year before there had been a rain out they're at these games at fenway they had to miss school and their mother informed that they were not going to miss school this time yeah okay so they play all night okay they play all night i still have to write a column but i'm my car is in a secure parking lot um and so the boys go and wait and i try to write

us because i have to now drive two and a half hours back yeah yeah right knowing there's a game the next night. That night. Yeah. Okay. Mike, real quick, that's one of my favorite calls ever by Joe Buck when he goes. We'll see you later tonight after that home run. I love that call.

Later tonight. But between game four and game five, I said to my wife, you know, honey, the game's going to start at 5.30 tomorrow. There's no way they can play all night again. Well, guess what? They played all right. Yeah, sure did. They played all right again.

And then Ortiz not. and Johnny Damon and, you know, the rest is history. But if I had to, if I was ranking them, I don't even know, maybe Kirk Gibson's home run would be, I was in a, I just staying there that night. But, but Miracle and then that comeback to just, only because it had never happened before and probably won't ever happen again. Mike, were you guys at game three that year? I swear Zach tells me a story of you were at game three when the socks were getting

murdered. 1980, the boys were sitting, they were sitting. up on the wall. And it's freezing cold. You know, Alex Rodriguez has hit, my boys don't ever read a game early. Okay,

that's a game that ended up 19 to 8. Okay? So they went back, they went back to the hotel. And then I watched the postgame stuff, John Damon, who I've known for a thousand years in Francona, and they're saying,

well, you know, we've had four game winning streaks before. And, you know, we just got, you know, saying all the right things. Okay.

And I'm thinking, Okay. They're all known. They're all. They've been either, they've combined, they shouldn't have combined the sedatives they were taking and post-game beers. And then, of course, then Ortiz does what he does. And then Ortiz does it again. And then comes the bloody sock. And then comes, you know, the grand slam in game seven. But that was another time when it became clear that the Red Sox were going to win game seven. that you can't possibly. It wasn't as improbable as beating the Russians. Right. But it was pretty a problem. But it was crazy.

Pretty close. They want to eat straight. Holy shit. What a moment. Okay. Unreal. Mike, thank you so much, man. This was an absolute blast.

It was so sick reliving that and hearing your stories is just all time. Well, I love you show. I love the way you're growing the sport. but all you guys there, okay? I tell people this all the time. It's just a younger, smarter, hipper, cooler version. And I love the sports reporters and I was proud to be on it. But you guys have got, you all got it figured out there.

So God bless you. Hey, we're following in your footsteps, man. You paved the way. Yeah, exactly. Paving the way. Guys, I had a blast today. Thank you for letting me. We lived this one more time because

that means that it'll be a while now before I can wear my sons out again, sharing all these memories. No, it was our pleasure, Mike. Start calling us. Yeah, exactly. We'll talk to you about this all day long. This is incredible. Thanks for having me, guys.

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