Empty Netters Podcast - The Florida Panthers Might Not Get Scored On All Season w/ Dave Jackson

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

Opening Day is upon and we’ve got real hockey again. Markstrom is the best goalie in the league. The Leafs suck. Vegas is going back to the cup. JJ Peterka is winning the rocket. And it’s a DISASTER in Edmonton! Are we having fun yet?? Dave Jackson joins the boys to tell some truly incredible stories from his legendary career. Evan’s fraud watch blew the boys hair back. And the blind ranking of bad beers is gonna piss people off. Chapters 0:00 - Intro 2:39 - NHL Opening Day Recap 46:18 - Brock Faber Injury 2:03:39 - Fraud Watch / Top Hits 2:26:32 - Blind Ranking The Best Worst Beers PRESENTED by BetMGM. Download the BETMGM app and use code “NETTERS” and enjoy up to $1500 in bonus bets if you lose your first wager!Thanks to our Sponsors!BetMGM: Use bonus code NETTERS when signing up to receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your first bet loses.Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (Available in the US)877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY)1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR)21+ only. Please Gamble Responsibly. See⁠ BetMGM.com⁠ for Terms. First Bet Offer for new customers only. Subject to eligibility requirements. Bonus bets are non-withdrawable. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. This promotional offer is not available in New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Empty Netters podcast. Can you believe what this has become? There was a full 48 hours where I felt like I was like literally Superman. Jumbo loves playing Fortnite, so he gets on the sticks. Did TR show you the sauna cycle or was that all year? No, no, I invented that. Almost a year now that I haven't taken a body check. That's kind of nice.

So we are back. We are horned up and we are going deep. Finish tonight with some chicken fingers and a few guineasasers, ran into you guys. That's where this pod came to life. Ice is ready and we're back with another episode of the empty netters podcast brought to you by BetMGM. Please subscribe to the YouTube. Go to Spotify, Apple, five-star reviews, wherever you get your podcast.

Let's get it going. I'm your host, Dano. We got Dr. Watkins rocking his penguins jacket on the opening night of penguins. Hockey. You love to see it. And the man's still in a cast, still debating whether he's ready or not for hockey season. C. C.

Is there a reason that you wear two necklaces and have the bottom of the necklace be the clasp and nothing. It just spins, dude.

I'm not paying attention. I can't feel I can't feel wear the bottom of the necklaces. That'd be an amazing invention somebody to make a like a zero gravity necklace latch.

Or just like very subtle weight very subtly put more weight in the top end. I don't think that would work but you guys are on to something. I think it could work.

I almost think it should you should get this part sewn into your neck skin back here. So it just... You get a little nail put in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A little piercing.

Yeah. And then it's good, dude. Then if somebody rips it off, you're like, ah! Sown into your neck skin sounded spooky. I did not like that. Some Hellraiser shit. Yeah.

Dude, it's almost October, boy, so you're going to fucking strap. True, dude. It's about to be spooky season literally tomorrow. I don't even have my Halloween going to be. Which fires me up. We've got a great episode today. Opening night was yesterday. We're going to talk about all the games.

We've got the greatest NHL ref of all time, potentially. Yep. Dave Jackson joins the pod. We're going to have a great chat with him. Let's just get on into it, boys. Let's talk about the opening night. We're going to get into a lot. lot of info, a lot of games, a lot of thoughts.

And we're also going to talk about a little bit of news. I want to start with the opening game. The last two Stanley Cup champions matching up going head to head. What a fucking game. What a game. And you're on the cats, right? That's your ride or die. Yeah, that's my ride or die.

But I was just going to say, first of all, sick game, two really good teams that are going to be in it down the stretch. That was awesome. My biggest takeaway, because I thought both teams went through stretches of looking really good. Florida early, I would say, looked better, and some big chances from all the guys. It's actually crazy when you see them run their lines out. And they don't even have everybody yet. But

when you see them running their lines, you're like, what to fuck? But I just thought in one game, one game. But I just thought, what a statement from Markstrom. Christopher. Everyone's like, oh, the bar bear is over, and now you've got Marks and he stinks. And he's like this, shut out these Stanley Cup champs, suck me from the back, and we are winning the cup. What a moment. What a moment. I also think that there is a weird, there's a weird rivalry between Keynes fans and Panthers fans. Well, it's the rivalry that an aunt has with a boot. That is such a dumb thing to say. But, Hey, that is such a dumb thing to say, what do we always say on this show? What have you done for me lately?

Cain's Champs. It is, dude, it is what I say all the time. Whenever there are people who fucking count rings and they, it's, Habs, I absolutely love you. But it's like when Canadians fans like talk about the cups that they have, when most of these fans weren't even fucking alive the last time they won, you can't do that. You simply cannot do that.

I say it to Bruins fans all the time. When Bruins fans try to talk shit, I'm kind of like, guys, it's been over 10 years. It's been over 10 years since the Bruins won. You can't really talk about championships. What have you done for me lately? End of the day, yes, sweep this, sweep that. But the Keynes have been in so many Eastern Conference Finals in the last five years, and they won the cup last year.

So like, there is no such thing as the aunt comp with the Keynes anymore. What's funny, dude, is I don't think these teams are rivals at all. It's literally the fan bases. And I think it's the fan bases because they're both southern markets. They're both smaller markets. And they both deal with northern fans going, you guys are bandwagon, pussies,

you don't have any fans, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're both just like always on guard. Last night was absolutely hilarious. If we tweeted anything positive about either team, the mentions were all the other fan base screaming about something. We tweeted last night, nothing gets through this Kane's defense it seems what a group if it ain't broke don't fix us

fix it because let's talk about in that game Bussie had 19 saves on 20 shots against and Markstrom had 15 saves on 15 shots against in an OT a full OT game neither one of these teams had over fucking 20 shots like the D's smothering both teams both defenses were smothering but what was funny is the amount of Panthers fans being like they fucking stink blah blah blah And this one Panthers fans quote tweeted that and goes, saying this while the Cains had one shot on goal with two minutes left in the first is something. And I go, what does their offense have to do with the defense? And he was just like this, why aren't you sucking the Panthers dick?

And I'm like, calm down. I will. I'm going to. But genuinely, I fucking loved it. Like we barely got one period through the first game of the season before spicy, faceless Twitter bots. started losing their minds and I was like we're so back. Dude, I want to come to a slight defense here though, because I think

this, the cats fans have, this is what happens when you're good first of all, but they take it from everybody all the time because they're in Florida and because they're a small southern market, whatever, whatever, and they're nasty. So they, I don't blame them

for always dancing on graves because they are, you know, what have you done from me lately, but I'm like, they are kind of the weird exceptions to that rule because they went to three straight cups and then everybody got hurt last year. So they intentionally didn't play. Yeah. So it's not like, oh, we beat you last year.

I'm like, no, we just sat out. We decided to take a breather. Katz fans are always on the defensive and I don't blame them for it. And Kane's fans, dude, enjoy this. Enjoy your whole year. It's incredible. You champ till someone beats the champ. Yeah.

But Kane's fans and not anyone we interacted with because they were all goaded. And I've actually said this before on the pot and a few people in the comments have been like, Not me, but Keynes fans, I've seen a lot online, have done the like, we did it, we've vanquished everybody. And Florida people are like, you didn't vanquish us. You think you vanquished me? Yeah. So I actually don't blame. There's a lot of Keynes fans online who are like, oh, I see, what have you done for me lately?

Little bro and Florida Panthers fans are like, you are a fucking clown. Be careful. Yeah. Be careful. And yeah. That's happening a little bit. I know you feel this way too. I will just go.

go on top and say, I absolutely adore. And I mean that passionately, both of these fan bases. Me too. And you all know that. Like some of the new bots on Twitter, maybe you'll learn it, but like I, first of all, Florida's my ride or die. Yep. And we fucking love the Canes. I love both these fan bases. And I'm so happy for them with this game. Like there was a bunch of awesome Keynes fans after that loss being like, what a fucking game. This is going to be an epic duke out session for these teams. Yeah. So Panthers, I think, had 13 block shots in the game.

Cains had 19 block shots. Dude, 19 block shots. Crazy. It's fucking crazy. Name of the game. My prep school coach is that. Block shots, name of the game. It is.

It is, dude. The way both these teams just eat fucking pucks, I think Panthers were 0 for 7 on the power play. Cains were 0 for 5. And I really don't think that that's a, ooh, both your power play stink. I think it's both their PKs are just so good. Dude, isn't that funny, think about this?

This is like a hockey comment. Isn't it funny that in the NBA, for example, blocks, huge part. Yeah. Get blocks. Like, in hockey, a huge part of the game is just throwing your actual body. Literally, dude. It'd be like in baseball if you were like, the more pitches you get hit by, the better chance we have to win.

And people are like, oh, fucking hell. Stand in front of it. Oh, fuck, God damn. Yeah. Like, hockey, a huge part of winning hockey games is literally taking fucking missiles off your body. That's why the expression we always say is eat pucks because you do, you just have to, especially as a defender, you have to just drop to a knee and be like, oh, just. And even in Beer League. Like, I'm not kidding. You get hit by shit. You're like, God, damn, dude. Pucks hurt, guys. If you, if you, if you've never blocked a shot, I'll tell you, they hurt. Crazy down. Both these teams looked so good. I saw a couple people saying, oh, we look rusty, we look that. I didn't think so. I mean, the big ones are Jarvie's out.

a huge thing, but Marci's out. That's a huge thing. I thought both teams looked awesome. I love to see Goose getting that goal. Goose had, I think, two or three blocked shots, three shots on net, gets the OT winner goal. Like, what a fucking player. It was good to see Barkov back. I thought Brady had a great game, went in there, got a goalie interference penalty. I think he was 100% on 5V5 high danger chances. Great opening day for Brady. Obviously, he would have liked to get a goal. one, though. He also had a fucking sick dish to, I believe it was, oh, was it Verhege? I don't know, but he had a great play turned around and just like snapped on tape to tape and fucking unbelievable saved by Bussie. Dude, I actually think that Brady is, usually the way of it

in sports is, I'll go to like high school, you're nasty, you big fish small pond, right? you're nasty here and then you kind of go somewhere else and you realize, oh, you're not that good. And I feel as though everyone has consistently been like, Brady is the best player on the Sends or close to it. And he's not that good. And I just mean he's not, you know, Connor and Leon. Yeah, yeah. It's not that good. So then when he goes to Florida, it's like, he's irrelevant.

Like, he's not even good. Yeah. Oh, you got Brady Kachuk. Who cares? But I'm actually like, I think Brady is the type of player that he maybe can't be that guy. You couldn't put Brady on a bad Oilers team and have him just carry you to places like Connor does. Yes. But Brady on a stacked team, elevate.

Like, he's now better than he would have been when he's trying to do everything. One million percent. I actually think they, you all fucked up because now you have an even better Brady. One million percent. And I think Ottawa fans would get annoyed by that statement because they'd go, we're stacked, to which I would agree. I think Ottawa has amazing players. But I think Ottawa has a lot of younger, kind of more skill.

flashy players maybe. And Brady maybe felt... And Brady was good on Ottawa. Oh, dude, that's the biggest misconception of all time. But maybe he felt like he had to do more. Yeah, he did. He had the C. He's... I mean, listen, hate him or not. Brady Cichuck is a name in the NHL. There's a big spotlight, but on this team, the spotlight is way dimmer on him, if not on him at all.

So he can just go out there and fucking bang bodies and hopefully pump in goals, which he will do. I thought both teams looked awesome right after the game, I think I tweeted something like feels like the ECF preview, eh? And everyone was like, not a preview dude, this is it.

And we obviously have some horses in the East that we really like. But holy hell, man, if this is the Eastern Conference final game. We might have to go. Yeah. I mean, both teams look so good. They're so evenly matched.

That was crazy, dude. 20, not, neither team in a full three periods and full OT, neither team over 20 shots. The Eastern Conference Final would actually be a nightmare because every game would be zero-zero going into overtime and every game would go three OTs. I know. That part, that is true. But I will say both of these teams, though, if the games are like that, it would be the most entertaining Eastern Conference Final of all time.

They're disgusting. The next game we want to talk about is Habs versus the Leafs. Original Six matchup. I got to say, obviously I'm ride or die on the sabres this year due to my hat pull. Actually, maybe that one was AI, but whatever. We went to hat pill. Everybody calmed down. But sneaky, my sneaky, don't like to talk about it at parties, ride or die is the Leafs because I have committed to, I'm really the only one on the Leafs, certainly in this room.

And for most of the hockey world. So I am proud and thrilled. Let me also say Leafs fans who are tuning in, hockey fans who are tuning in who want to hear us talk more about the Marchenko trade, we will talk. about that after we get through these opening night games, so don't worry about that. I'm also not down on the Leafs, just so you know. I would respect a nice Leafs win. You had that

seventh damn. That would be technically down on them. But I as we talked about the Atlantic, right? I know, I'm just saying seventh is not, you're not high on who. Sure, but I'm not down on them. I would be happy if they won. I think the team is good. So, oh, I don't have my water bottle, I was about

to pull up my Austin Matthews sticker. Go Leafs go. so I am proud and thrilled to announce McKenna dash 2, Radish dash 2 Bob lit up like a pinball machine we are terrible, we are losing everything we have lost to the habs and we only lost by a goal and that's probably the closest we will be to winning

any game for the rest of the season. 0 and 82 isn't even on the table because we play 84 now. Oh and 84, it all went horribly. So great season, but the good news is throw another first overall pick into the mix and then maybe we compete for a playoffs spot next year. Listen. It's finished.

I am going to say, uh, we suck. Radish and McKenna both being dashed to. We suck, Dan. Um, no. Everyone who I thought was good is terrible.

Oh, how about this? Except for Willie, who's the best boy of the league? How about this? And the best wing in the league. And I said that and everyone fucking laughed at me, but I'm right. Willie looked insane.

He's the best wing in the league. I thought Easton Cowan looked great. That was big. I thought his one two, I mean, Willie kind of did all the work, but his one two dish to Willie on Willie's second goal was really nice. Um,

he was all. a plus one in that game, which is love to see it. One thing I thought was fascinating, other than Matthews, Krill Marchenko led all forwards in time on ice. In his first game, like he literally got off the plane and they went, you're playing. And other than Matthews, he played more time forward. That is fucking, that's gritty.

You want to just talk about him right now? That's gritty. Yeah, let's just go to the Merchenko thing now. Well, no, let's do it. I want to talk more about the haves too. We'll do it in this game, though. All those things are fair. Wasn't the best first game, but again, you're playing who we think is the best team in the Atlantic.

And you made it close. The habs, I thought, looked phenomenal. And you know what I loved about this, dude? You go into Toronto's barn. You go opening night. They've got the first overall pick. They're so excited about that they get the new toy in March. Chanko and you come in and you take care of business.

You get up 3-1 game, you know, great goal by Willie. But like that game, even with Willie scoring first, that game felt like it was under control by the habs the entire time. Dobesh looked amazing. So good, dude. Like, he looked so good. And my favorite thing about it, I know it's just the first game, but you win that game with none of your fucking big dog scoring and going.

and I'm like, that is going to be the difference maker for this team. Yeah. If you guys grid out games against a good Toronto Maple Leafs team like this all season, you went a low scoring, hits the under type game, and you get goals from guys like Carrier and you're not. Anderson. Anderson, well, Anderson, I think he is such a fucking Swiss Army-Nine type guy. He's such a fucking dog.

Anderson's such a dog. But yeah, Cole, Zook, Lane, Slath, Demon. Yeah. You know. Lane, Lane, no point. Nightmare. Yeah.

Nightmare. Dude, tough for the Norris, especially with what went on in Edmonton. Dude, and I did put in, and I'll have, that's what to prove it. I put in a Bush Norris ticket before the game. Good job. I literally was looking at it and I was like, oh, I win. I won the bet. Yeah.

Unbelievable. So, Habs win as we thought they would. Leaves. I don't think, I wouldn't be that worried. I did No one is like we're being hyperbolic Yeah

I did I did bet I did bet a poppy anytime goal score because we obviously you can't win the rocket if you don't score every game I do want

if I want him to score a next game if I don't get a poppy goal against the islanders I'm a little bit like I agree because I want him to be rolling you know like Willie's the guy

Willie is the guy now but I want Austin to be like this no I'm the fucking guy so they're playing tonight I'd like to see Austin score. Let's talk about Marchenko. We're here. So, Krill Marchenko gets traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Matthew Nyes.

There are other pieces involved. Elvis Merzleikins comes up. But Krill Marchenko comes in and he immediately signs an extension six years, $12.5 million. I, for the life of me, cannot understand this trade. to me, I've been fascinated. We've seen a lot of very passionate Leafs fans in the past. And when this trade happened, we were recording with Alec Martinez. We popped up a tweet that was like, if getting Marchenko cost you, Matthew Nyes,

Leafs fans, are you happy? I would say it was about six. And it was a, you got a lot of responses. But a lot of great responses. lot of really intelligent and well-thought-out responses, I would say it was 60-40, Leaves fans going, no, I'm not happy. So to break it down pretty simply, do me a favor and get last season's point totals from the two of them. I know they're pretty close, pretty comparable, especially point per game. But Matthew Nyes is 23 years old, 23-year-old winger, who is making 7.75

mil until 2031, including this year, five years left on that deal. And now Krell Marchenko is 26 years old. He's making, I think, under four right now, but we'll be making 12.5 for the next six years starting next year. As far as contract-wise, this is pretty nuts. And last year, Marchenko had how many points, Chris? Marchenko last year had 67 points in 76 games with 27 tux. Yep. And Matthew Nyes

had 66 points in 79 games with 23 tucks. So pretty identical. Pretty comparable seasons. Except one is three years younger and way cheaper. But let's break it down as far as what they bring. I think Marchenko is a much faster skater. I think he's got a

he's got a wicked shot, better shot than Nisey. However, when I look at the Leafs team, I think the Leafs need more jam. Truly, my reaction is you want a guy like Matthew Nyes. You've got Austin Matthews.

You've got Willie Nealander. You've got Easton Cowan. You've got Gavin McKenna. All of these guys are presumably like playmaker goal scores. Guys that really aren't going to get in the dirty errors. areas and be gritty. And like Nyes is like, I see like a Tom Wilson in Matthew Nyes.

He's a fucking brick shit house. He can clearly score 25 plus goals. He can get 65 plus points. But he's also, you're going to kill penalties. He's going to ruffle people's feathers. I feel like that is a guy that you want on this Leafs group. So I didn't really get it. Dude, the, uh, this trade.

This will get thrown in my face when like, everything flips, but this trade makes no sense to me at all. And we said, I can't remember if this was in the pot or not, but we said when it was breaking, God, is smart you're going to get $10 million? The least he's going to pay him $10 million.

They're paying him $12.5 million to be a guy that you already had who, to your point, which I totally agree with, provides an element to his game that you desperately need. And it's clearly something is going on. You saw Maddie Nise's quotes that he just said, just relieved. I'm just relieved to be done with this fucking bullshit to which I say, how could you ever have a Maddie Nyes and he spent over a year being upset and uncomfortable and not focusing

on hockey and not ready to play because of the culture and environment that you've created around him? How could you have a draft pick that good that you've ruined his life and then now shipped out for a lateral move, in my opinion, completely lateral move just to get someone older and more expensive. And maybe we'll never know, dude. But I have, I have, you know, dancing on my leaf shit. Yeah. They got radish. They got Bob. They did a bunch of great things. You locked into McKenna. The GM hire has been the elephant in the room where everyone was like, well, that was insane. And I was like, well, I mean, he's got advisors. Matt Sundin is there. Like, how bad could you actually fuck anything up? And I'm not saying Marchenko's a bad player. And this is a fuck up.

I'm just saying, this is the first time I'm like, oh, the lease front office is completely unhinged. Like they are. Yes. I'm like, what are you doing? Dude, literally what are you doing? This makes no fucking sense. You are out of your fucking minds. And now I have lost all confidence because I'm like, you will run this into the ground due to insanity. Yeah. So the weird thing for me is like they have $0 in cap space. And now next year, Marchenko's, as we said, 3.8 goes to 12.5. And if you look at their structure, the only thing coming off their books straight up is Nick Blankenberg's 1.4 and Merzleekins 4.4. So like, you have no money. Yeah. And then you're going to trading Matthew. You're going to have to extend Eastern. You can start to extend Easton

next season. And then Matthews, Matthews 13.2 is going up. Oh my God, dude. Yeah. I'll have to trade Matthews. I don't see Matthews doing a Connor McDavid and going, I'll sign for 13.2 again. Matthews at 30 next year, that this is his last contract. Yeah. Oh my God, buddy. You know, like you're going to sign another, I would assume, six, seven year deal, wherever you go next at probably 15 mil. And that's your. your next and last big contract. So he's leaving. He's gone. It's a, it's a wild, it's a wild move.

It's a gamble. Again, like you said, it's not a bad player. Marchenko's a great player. But you had a great player. I think you had a great player. And someone said this, which was interesting. He's so good in playoffs. Yes. Such a fucking, he's, yeah, he's a dog. He's a dog. He does. He does that every time. Dude, we, we said, I fucking love this move. That was good dog shit. I love this move by Columbus because as we talked about getting Fantilli signed was really big if Z stays that's really big and now you've got fucking Nizzi at a great number until 2031 that's really big I love it dude I mean I'm not saying this is necessarily a loss of a trade for

Toronto I'm not willing to say that yet I'm saying I'm confused by it but it's no matter what a win for Columbus yes there's a world where they both win But it is no matter what, you lock win for Columbus. Like great fucking trade by them. Well said. The one big thing that I do need to bring up, and I know people have, I'm not breaking any news here. This is all over the interwebs.

But I do find the fascinating thing of this. If anyone is unaware of Toronto fans, Columbus fans are unaware of this. John Chica gets his first job in the NHL when he was fucking 16 years old. He literally, Ben, Ben Wyatt. Yeah, yeah, Ice Town. Ice Town. Yeah. 2017, Shane Done is with the Arizona Coyotes and Chica absolutely fucking suerousin.

Yeah. Donor thinks she's coming back. Chica goes, fuck you. You're gone. Immediately then they have a strained relationship. They do not like each other. Matthew Nyes is an Arizona boy. Born and raised in Arizona, grew up in that hockey culture that Shane Done has helped build.

And they are very close family friends. Shane Done is like a mentor to Matthew Nyes. Shane Done gets a front office job with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Then in May, John Chica gets hired. Six days later, Shane Donne goes, I'm out of here. Peace the fuck out. And then four months later, Matthew Nyes gets traded. I would not be surprised at all.

And this is allegedly, I have zero knowledge of this, but I would not be surprised at all. If given Matthew Nyes' personal relationships, there was a part of him that was like, I would not hate it if I was not a part of this organization with fucking this guy here. follow the money it's uh it's like that thing that's um i would never want to be a member at a country club the type of country club that would allow me to be a member that's exactly what's happening here he's like i'm not playing for a franchise that would hire chica i'm like okay yeah and and i you know we saw that that call uh with nizzi and columbus and they're like you surprised and he's like no i you know this was happening yeah he's like i'm surprised it happened the day before fucking

opening night, but this was kind of hanging over my head. I'm glad it's done. That's something. So I'm happy for him. Moving on to the other games. Leif's fans in shambles again. Yeah. No, no, no. Yes. Bruins, rags, uh, goalie duel, just like the cats, Cain's game. Yeah. Two of some of the best goalies in the league, in our opinion. And in everyone's opinion. And then I had the socks on to and I was just fucking raging, pulling my fucking hair out. I was getting so mad. And I had, and you know what, dude, I actually got to say to Sandra, I was like, a lot of people chirping me about the two TVs in the living room. A lot of people getting mad about that. They're saying, Chris, you're 40. Why do you have two TVs in your living room?

But I tell you what, man, when I kicked my feet up last night, and I had socks, Bruins'ans rags right here. I felt pretty, you felt pretty special? You felt pretty fucking good, dude. Pretty fucking good. And I had the volume on the socks, the bees, low volumes. I was like, I just got to, I actually, people hate this about me. I'll put volume on both, and they think I'm insane. I think that's a little wild. It just doesn't bother me. I know it gives most people a headache.

Maybe you're already schizophrenic, Chris, and you've already hearing voices. That's possible. And maybe it sounds fine. I will say it doesn't bother me either, but it is kind of a while. I've done a headphone for each. I've done a left headphone, one game,

right headphone, other game. Actually, I just miss each other in my brain. They go, wow. And I hear them both. I hear every play. Disavow everything I just said. I love it. I'm completely on your side.

Because last night I was in the office watching with Jack and we only had the socks Yankees on and I was bored. I was like, let me hear some of the action. It feels like a bar when you got both. And this is the hack. Because if you go full volume on both, it is kind of crazy. But the simple hack, this isn't a genius idea. It's pretty obvious. But you put the high volume on whatever. And you just put the other one on white noise volume. I can hear it. But when something sick happens, it gets louder. Because now it's like, Go, go. Yeah. Baseball's like that, too. Yeah. It's pretty ambient. To be like, I'm watching this thing with the volume and I'm just,

this is like in my ear. And then when it gets loud, you just look over there. And regardless of playoffs, and I've said many times, I think watching baseball on TV is absolutely insane unless it's playoff baseball. Regardless of playoffs,

if you're having volume of one game on, you can't pick baseball. Yeah. Baseball put you asleep. Yeah. It's like, it's like, it's like, yeah,

dude, I saw a video the other day. Was it? Was it a dude doing the cadence? Dude, when he goes like this, you don't even have to say words, this is a baseball announcement. Fowl, blah, blah, bra,

wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, bra, blah, wow. And you're like, that's just a baseball game. And then it gets excited. Slav-flav-flow, like that. Stop a foul. Next, bra, blah.

And you're like, that's just baseball, baby. I really, this is a skill of baseball announcers. I love when they also have no idea if it's a home ride or not, off the bat. You know, they're like, deep to right. and then they'll go, once it's clearly getting caught, they'll go, the fans thought he hit it out, but it is. And I'm like, so did you, and so did I.

I actually love the other one where he's like this. Puts one into left field, and then it's in the fucking cheap seats, and he's like this, and huge home run. I'm like, way back. Baseball announcers need to be like, you know, the NFL games? Yeah, you know they have like the camera over the NFL field that's like zooming around? That should be the baseball announcer's the seat. Like he's like, Zro!

That one almost got me. He's got a jet pack, like the Rocketeer. Yeah, totally did. Like, that's what I want. So back to Bruins Rangers. Tail of the tape. 24 shots for the Rangers. 22 for the bees.

23. Actually, I think you could say if you're going to count the empty net. Yep. Hits 3736. Power plays, both 0 for 1. Face off percentage. 50-50.

Tail of the tape, this was like an incredibly even game. Which actually scares me as a Bruins fan. And through two and a half periods, I was kind of like, this is an awesome goalie duel. Like both these goalies are just, you know, they're buzzing. However, I felt personally like the Rangers were doing not a lot for me. And Rangers fans? You're on the rags. Yeah.

Rangers fans, I'm a ride or die. Don't worry later. I'm going to be right or dying. Yep. We're just talking about the game right now. They were not doing much for me. As far as like, are you, are you threatening? Are you having like high day?

There were a couple of scrummy plays where there was a shot in front that like sway kind of lost and he was kind of like pinging back and forth between the posts. But like I thought the Bruins did a pretty good job of keeping them at bay for the most part. And I just, I, there was a actually. a period in the third where the Rangers were out shooting Boston and I was like how are they out shooting Boston like Boston like Boston is playing much fucking better so it just felt a bit toothless for me for the Rangers I was like what what are you yeah well I think they're toothless that's what I think yeah and uh that's why I was actually kind of rattled the Bruins weren't playing better but I mean it's first game doesn't matter but uh all I really have to say about this game is the both goalies are sick and that JJ goal was gross and it was it must be cool You talked about Matthews wanting to get one to get rolling and whatever. Yeah. It must be sick to be the new, the biggest thing that Bruins did was get JJ. Yeah.

And for him to come in and go, who. Highlight reel. And then have one in the first game. I'm like, God, that would be dope. No question. You know if it snowballs and you're now four games in, you haven't scored and everyone's like, what are you doing? And you're like, people go four games and don't scoring all the time, unless you're Connor.

Yeah. So get off my ass, but it just sucks to start a season. To have that one right away, you go, let's fall up. Frasier Minton, too. Yeah. Signs his new. contract comes in and fucking shelves. That was a sick shot, sick pass to.

I think the Bruins feel great. I thought pasta was all over the ice. Obviously, he didn't get a tuck, but he was all over the ice. You love, if you're the Bruins, you love seeing Elias Lindholm on the stat sheet with an assist. But I thought the bees looked great. I thought Sway looked so good. Shesty looked so fucking good. Like, listen, dude.

Absolute shelf job by Fraser Minton and then a highlight real goal by J.J. Paturka, essentially breakaway when he's in alone. You're not mad at those if you're chesty. So great stuff. I do want to give a shout out to our boy, Ramps. Red Rising fan. I am so impressed and proud of him. Matt Rumpy, almost 10 minutes of ice time last night,

shot on goal, six hits. Like, dude, you are an NHL fucking player. Absolutely. Like opening night on that roster, playing almost 10 minutes of ice time. And he's been grinding to get. Dude, working on his skating, working on his positioning, his IQ. Like, dude, you're an NHL player.

Like, he will play 82 games for that team if he wants. And I think that that is so fucking cool. Yes, that is 100% correct. I was pissed at myself because Sway had a over three and a half shutouts this season bet, and the odds weren't good enough. So I was like, I'm not going to take it. He's going to do it, but it's just not worth my time. And then he got a shutter in the first game.

And I was like, fuck. Yeah. I'm going to get 10. moving on to Vegas, Chicago. This was the bet. I'm going to be honest, when I did my parlay, I literally missed this game. And I would have taken Vegas and it only would have made my parlay more devastating.

But I should have just fucking swapped the teams. Anyway, Vegas comes out the gate fucking firing. And not to absolutely double-rister spit on it and sing a song to myself and Alec Martinez. I'm skiing with Marty and myself. Yeah. But us doing our Pacific preview and people saying, where are you going to replace the goals from Skora Fiev? And we both go, Oloffsen and Connolly.

Yeah. First two goals of the season for Vegas, Olafson and Connolly. It was incredible, dude. And also, how good is Jack Eichel and Che Theodore? And Ike's three points. Like I, you know, I was on the, we got to get Ike's 100 points,

and then we just bang three point opening night with a tuck. Yeah. I saw him walking in. I was watching the pregame. He's signing fucking hats. It was actually sick. I watched him come down on the red carpet. And he has a, you know, a woman, a woman walking with him to make sure he doesn't get hung up too long.

And everyone's hanging out things to sign. And he's just kind of, I don't know how you do that as a superstar or a celebrity. You got to pick who gets the signature. And he was kind of looking in his sick suit walking forward. And then one dude reached over the banner with a USA jersey. He immediately went over. bang. I was like, sick.

That'll get you fired up. You get that signed every time. I'm a little spooked for the Blackhawks. Now, as I said, Blackhawks fans, I know you're not my ride or die, but I'm high on the Hawks this year. Don't be panicked yet. Until Bedard comes back, I don't think we can be panicked about really anything. You love to see Caner score. It's return.

It's incredible. And it was a nasty move. I actually, I'm never going to be mad about a cane goal, but I'm actually bummed. He didn't get his phone. first at home. Oh. You know, whatever, but I just, and I'm sure Hawkshands were pumped out. Well, well,

I don't think it should, how about he scores in the home open? Yeah, yeah, that would so be cool. Like, so it doesn't matter. But I was like, God, it would have been so nasty. And dude, Dan, that goal, trademarked Cristellios, anticipation. Oh, yeah. He's anticipating. And just be patient.

Nasty. Way to, way to the 10D out. Yeah, anticipation into patience. Yeah. Way to the 10D out. Spencer Knight looked awesome. And again, a 5-2 loss. Empting that goal, sure. You're not really going to look at many stats. I thought Spencer Knight looked awesome.

Got absolutely peppered. And, you know, that's going to be a tough one. I thought he looked great. But Vegas, listen, good game for your home opener against Chicago. You're always going to want to win that one pretty emphatically. You won it emphatically. But that should be a lot of people talking shit about the Pacific Division, which we will get to next game.

People kind of wanted to be like, is Vegas going to be good? And I know it's a, Chicago's not one of the best teams in the league yet. I expressed some worries about this. But I thought Vegas looked fucking great. Everyone, everyone going.

All right. Final game of opening day, Edmonton, Vancouver. What an absolute shit show. I mean, Dan. What an absolute shit show? It's so many things at once. Okay.

It's the Oilers. And dude, Stu Skinner, when this is all said and done, when this era of Edmonton, in Oilers Hockey is over and Conner's on the Sharks, Stu Skinner, we're going to look back and go, they had it so good with Stu,

because he has played great for stretches. Genuinely, he has. But it is hilarious, not that they grow on trees, but it is hilarious to me that the Oilers just never got a goalie while Connor McDavid and Leon Drysaddle were on your team. And then they traded Stu for Jari, which was like insane. Not even saying Jari's that much worse,

I'm just saying it was such a, what was that trade? What are you doing? Yeah. And this was the Oilers not having a goalie like they haven't. This was the Oilers not playing any good D like they haven't. This was the Oilers being unkillable like they always are. How many playoff games do we have to watch against the fucking Kings where it's like, oh my God, they're going to win. And then it's like, just kidding. The Oilers will literally always come back and tie it and send it into overtime. And then this was the Oilers losing, I mean, not when it mattered most is game one of fucking 84. It doesn't matter. But it was just so,

hilarious. It was such a hilarious Oilers performance, and I already said this, but thank God I got my Bush Norris bet in because the odds probably cut in a quarter because... He must feel so good right now. Even with that loss. He's going to have

107... Give me 103 points for the yard this year. Remember I said that, right? Marty's not here because Marty's ride or die on the Canucks, right? He's Flames. Oh, he was flames. Yeah, no one got Canucks. I'm going to apologize right now to Canucks fans,

I'm not going to talk about you much right now. I am going to say this. Paul Cotter, Dog, our boy, fucking great game. And Petey. I was actually really happy with that. Way to get that fucking top. You're coming back. I think that that was an awesome game for the Canucks. It sure was.

Like, dude, the Edmonton Oilers continue, they absolutely can never win their home opener no matter fucking what. But Canucks, dude, sick fucking win. Insane game. That must have been a blast. Let's go to the Oilers. Talk to our boy, Taylor. who was like, after the game, I was like, dude, Jesus Christ. And he, as he does as a great fan,

was going heavy spin zone. First two things he said was book, pod, 25 tucks this year, completely agree. Yes. I think it'll be higher. Me too. And he was like, book, Bouch, 100 points. I'm not entirely sure that's going to keep up. But at the same time, dude, they just use him as a forward. He's not a defenseman. So I'm like, I think he will score 100 points this year. He's going to have 30 goals. I think he's going to 30 goals. I think he's he is. I think he's going to have 30 girls. I really do. The one thing he said was everyone's out. He was like, we have five starters out. And realistically, he's talking about Yanmark, Nuge, Dickinson, Savoy, and Freddie. So if you're

an oilish fan and you want to play the, we have injury, spin zone, I will accept that. Certainly Nuge being out is not helpful. And then Janie, I will say, like, Yan Mark's a very valuable play. But, like, Dickinson and Savoy, I'm kind of like, their question marks with this group. I believe in Savoy, but he's not yet proven himself. And then Freddie would have done better than fucking Tristan Jarrett. You heard me say that Freddy's going 50 and O before he's missing 34 games. He can't go 50 and O now. He will go 49 and O, but to go 49 and O, you must play.

So that will happen. That said, this was a clown call. of a hockey game. Legitimately, Chris, I was watching so intently because very quietly that four-leg parlay was absolutely coming home.

When Boston won that game, I was like, it was one-one, Edmonton, Vancouver, and I was like, are you telling me that you're not going to beat the fucking Canucks right now, guys? That was embarrassing.

It was like, listen, it's the first game. I'm not ringing any alarm bells of like, uh-oh, the fucking Babcock era, this, that, the other. I'm not going to do it. that, but I am going to go, I imagine they got in the locker room and they all cracked a few beers like this. Jesus Christ, dude. That was fucking pathetic. The first five minutes of that third period,

they looked like chickens with their heads cut off, dude. It was fucking insane, dude. Like, the second period, they tied it to two, two. And then to start the third, there's a play on the half wall. I think it was caputin. He just, like, fell over. There was a puck that, like, just got out of reach, and he just, like, slipped and fell on himself, turns it over. And then Ryan Shea gets spun around like a dreidel. Yeah. And then they come down and score. And it was just like coming down the wing.

I forget who scored it. Sorry for Vancouver. I'll find out right now. But like someone on the call was like, it was Lechermachy. They were like, Lechermocki's got one hell of a shot. And I was like, it's fucking went five hole from the wingboard. Like, Jari, what are you doing? And then it was just like this.

Goal, goal, like five, two like that. Now, this is Oilers Hockey. What a show. to make that come back. And when they fucking tied it, I fucking screamed sniped by pod. And I was like, let's fucking go because I was like, O.T. in what world are you going to win? Yeah, yeah. But dude, two things I'll say.

My God, does this team force feed to McDavid too much. It is, I know he's McDavid, but every time they were breaking in, they were like, here you go. And he was, I mean, he had one assist in that game. Obviously, he's going to have way better games than that. But

Vancouver was doing a good job of forcing him outside, not really letting him create. And it was just like that was their only zone entry that they could find. And that's ridiculous to say because they scored five goals. But if you watch the game, he was trying to do too much. And I just cannot believe, regardless of injuries, this defensive performance from the Oilers after the whole accountability, accountability shit, I'm like, yikes. Dude, I love-ykes opening game.

I loved Babcock's post-game where he goes. and you know I think your one Babs is going to work I think it's going to blow up after that but he goes someone the one of the reporter said did you think this was going to be easier and he said I just really didn't think it was to be easy and the guy goes because this is the show that we've seen over and over yeah and Babbs goes yeah I haven't I haven't seen that and I think he was trying to be like I wasn't here so I'm not I think so too but it just made me laugh because it was like he was like, I don't get scored out. And it's even more dead.

Like the implication is he hasn't even been watching hockey. Like he's been just out. He got fired by the blue jackets and hasn't washed on. He's been painting. Yeah. And they're like, hey dude, are you aware that the oilers give up a thousand goals and can't play a dean? And it costs us everything.

And he's like, really? Yeah. I haven't seen that. I didn't know. Why are you just telling me now? Yeah. He's like, oh my girl. Yeah.

This is news to me. Dude, he just, could he like, popped his chest out so hard. He's like, I haven't seen that. And I was like, you haven't? Dude, do you want me to put on some fucking highlight tapes of the last fucking five years, dude? It was just out of that. That killed me. You're absolutely right.

I am going to say the, and Alex sent this to us and he's a sharp on it too. The alarm bells and the clickbait that's already starting. Like the tweets that are like this, Mike Babcock didn't hold back. Yeah, I'm like, that is bullshit. He didn't say anything bad at all. He said, we all know we need to be better. It was fine. Yeah.

I think the one thing he said, he was like, that was ridiculous. Dude, anyone with a brain who watched that hockey game would go, that was ridiculous. That was a ridiculous game. So I don't like the clickbait that people are already trying to do. Like, anytime the Oilers lose, I feel like people are going to be like this. Babcock getting fired, blah, blah, blah. I don't think he said anything wrong at all. But I will say, I mean, one of the big things with this team, as I kind of just ranted about,

is you just cannot be this leaky. You can't play zero fucking defense. and they played zero defense in that game. Unbelievable. And that is another thing that's tough about, I mean, there are tons of people who are trying to make a career right now of stroking off Evan Bouchard,

and he is unbelievable offensively. But I am like, dude, you are paid $10 million. You are the number one D man on this team. You have to play defense, too. And you are just like, I'm not saying he was necessarily getting turnstiled, but you are a leader on this team. You are the best defenseman on this team.

team. You guys can't give up five goals and three goals in five minutes in the third period to the Vancouver Cox. You can't. Can't happen. Cannot. It's crazy. All right. The last thing that we are going to talk about before we toss this to Dave Jackson is Brock Faber. Yes. Were we recording when that popped? Yeah, we were. Yeah, we were. And Ev, it was a puck. Like, remember when we first heard that Faber fell? Yeah, you should, you called that, Ev. Well, no, we were I thought he fell on the ice because I was like there's no way of Oh shit yeah broke his skull

But it wasn't call that Yeah I did not Dash one for you Did it did uh Did the puck hit him when he had a helmet on? It just it just says deflected Deflected shot Struck to the left side of his head by a deflected shot on Friday

And I'm like did he have a helmet on And also deflected makes it even crazier Because it takes I mean I guess sometimes it keeps it speed up But you know usually yeah I think it was just like a rogue direct slap shot Right it was tipped first It's like Jesus Christ

Um, horrible, dude. I mean, this is like, not funny at all. It's a horrible situation. The surgery went great. He's resting at home, but there is no timetable for his return because his skull fracture. Yeah, man. Like this is, I feel like sometimes people say, you know, oh, I split my head open and that just means I cut my head. You cut your head.

This was a skull fracture. Yep. He had to have it. In surgery to fix it. Yes, he is healing. That's amazing. Brock, we love you. Hope you get better as soon as possible.

But that is scary because that's, there's concussion symptoms there probably. there's swelling there that you have to watch out for. Dave a Marty, dude. Like he took a skate to the face and like, oh, it's brutal. It's absolutely. Of that. So yeah, I mean, this sucks.

And in a year where it's all the Quinn speculation and what are we doing, are we all in right now? And we kept going, well, it's worth it going all in because you've got the dynamic duo back there on the blue line. But now let's say, let's say favors out for months, right? And then the wild don't start that well because they had some losses that we didn't like. And now you don't have this superpower in the best. back, which we were all stroking off. And then Quinn, now it's Christmas and you guys are out of playoffs. And Quinn's like, dude, I'm leaving. Like, you know, I'm not, this, this could derail so many things if he's out for a long time and the wild starts low, which sucks. Yeah, I know.

shit. I mean, it's a, it's a huge loss. The no timetable to return scares the shit out of me. Awful, dude. And listen, that might just be, they're just being cautious. Yeah, maybe he's back in two And yeah, they go, he's back in a week. Yep. But a skull fracture is just terrible. Scary, scary shit. So all the well wishes to Fabes. Last thing I want to do before we kick it is every time we have an episode where some of our

rider die team's played, we need to have a rider die state of the union. Yep. So I had two rider die teams play. You haven't had any play. I haven't had any play. I had the Panthers. All I'm saying is we did it. Copper bust.

You went toe to toe with the defending Stanley Cup champs, one, one, nothing in OT, Markstrom shut out, Brady looked great, everything's fucking awesome. Let's go. Rangers, here's my spin zone. So we're either going to do a gas up or a spin zone, I think. I think I have to do a spin zone with the Rangers. Yeah, clearly.

My spin zone is this. You were away playing in Boston. They just named pasta captain. they had a new player, JJ Petracher, who scores. Fraser Minton is Pavel Dotsuk, shout at Grinnell. Yeah. That's a tough thing to go against. Chesty looked awesome.

Chester looked awesome. And I'm going to say this, CP, as long as you have Chesterty, you're always going to be a threat. And maybe there's a world where you trade Chesty. What a spin zone for the Rags. Chesterty's gone. All the Racks fans are. We're here to get hyped up and he's like, Chester's off the team. Think about what you could get for him.

Yeah, McKenna. Bob sucks. Just saying. Just say. Trades. Listen, listen, listen, listen. Spin zone is, you didn't score any goals. No.

It didn't look that great. But again, playing a good Boston team in Boston on opening night. That was a tall task and Chesterty looked great. Either we ride Chesty forever. He's 30 years old. He's under a pretty big contract, 11.5. until 2032, I think. 2033.

And listen, if it feels like things aren't going that well, maybe trade them get a ton of first round picks. So things are great. Things are awesome. Things are great. Things are awesome. All right. What an opening night. Let's kick it to an ad break. And then we'll get right into our chat with Dave Jackson. Enjoy it. FedMGM is dishing out extra winnings all NHL season long.

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haven't signed up from Bed MGM yet, you do it now. You do it right this second and use that promo code netters. That's N-E-T-T-E-R-S when you sign up and then you get your new player offer and now you're really cooking. Now you really got a stew going. BetMGM, make it legendary. We are joined today by a Montreal native, a referee legend. God, who has worked a Memorial Cup, two NHL All-Star Games. Stanley Cup playoff games and Olympic hockey games. Only the sixth ref in NHL history to work 1,500 or more NHL regular season games. And now NHL rules analysts for ESPN, Dave Jackson.

Welcome to the Entenaders podcast. Oh, guys, such a pleasure to be here. Thanks, thanks for having me. It's been a long time coming, Jackson. We're thrilled to have you on the show. But what's crazy is it feels like yesterday we were sitting in the ARIA bar in Vegas. And now the season is six days away. I have no idea how that happened.

Yeah, you know, it has been a long time coming, but I get the feelings because it's still summertime officially, and you just, you're just going for the bottom of the bowler, who can we get on? Who can we get on that's not busy right now with training camp? Who has no responsibilities right now? Let's call Jax. You know, Jax? Actually, you're selling yourself short because I was like, he's going to get too busy once the season starts. You know, because the players down to us, dude, the players always say to us, Jacks, they're like, like, we just had Jackson Blake on. And he's like, oh, man, short. summer because we won the cup. And Dan and I are like, it's a short summer for us every year. Like, I have to go, I have to go to finals every year. Try living in my shoes, pal. So you had a short summer too, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Are you, are you excited to get back into it? Like, does, you know, for summer for you, I know, I know you had, you know, back around a little bit, but are you, are you pumped to get back into it? Are you a little bit also, like, how did we get here so fast? I think for me, I mean, there's not a lot. It's not like, uh,

when I used to referee, I go to training camp, you know, you spend the whole summer working out every day, eating, you know, broil chicken breast, drinking Miller Ultra. And, you know, just dreading those, you know, the testing a train. But a lot of people don't know, referees go through pretty rigorous fitness testing at camp. So, you know, always kind of dreaded that. You know, always kind of saying, boy, I'm not ready. Like, I waited too long to start training. I'm still a little overweight, you know, you never feel you're ready. and so it always came too soon.

In my role now, I look forward to it. I think it's just a great time of year. It's like the first day of school. Everything's new and shiny. So true. You know, players have changed teams, a couple of not many rule changes this year. Sometimes there's rule changes, but it's just, it's great to get back into it and just get back at it. I love that.

Well, listen, I mean, as we've said, a bunch of times, your career spans a long, long time. you've been reffing for ages, and it shows senior professionalism every single day. But your first game was actually when you were 14 years old back in Point Claire, which is insane. And how does a 14-year-old decide to become a ref? I mean, that's remarkable. Well, the 14-year-old had a paper route that had to have the papers delivered before 7 a.m. And for guys that know me, they marvel how I ever did that because I'm not really a morning person. And I was a terrible paper boy, just awesome.

awful. People who used to catch their train to work and they'd be standing on the street corner. They'd already left their house, but they're looking up and down the street. Where's that damn paper boy? We need our newspaper. And I'd be running down and throwing... They weren't happy with me. So a buddy of mine, I mean, I was playing hockey, and I played a decent level

of hockey. There was never any risk of me becoming an NHL. But I was a travel hockey player. But back in those days, that was the 70s and early 80s, even top level hockey in my city, you're only on ice three times a week, maybe four. That's what games and practices.

So you had spare time. So a buddy of mine was refereeing hockey. He said, why don't you come referee hockey? You'll make like four bucks a game. And you'll do squirts and Adam and peewee type of thing. And I said, that sounds way better than making, you know, 25 cents a house on a newspaper route. So I quit the newspaper route.

I started refereeing. And I remember my first game. It was a two-man system. I had on, instead of referee pants, I had on blue Levi quarteroys. And the kid I refereed with had on, you remember those old Cooper helmets? They looked like Gazoo from the Flintstones. There were just one piece round bubbles, but it was yellow. So he hit on a yellow one piece Cooper helmet, and I had the blue Levi quarterways.

And many times during the game, we were both standing on the same goal line or on the both sides, the same side of the ice. And we got through it. And I kept playing hockey, kept playing hockey until basically I finished playing midget. I never got drafted. So, you know, I said, let's do this refereeing full time. I was just turning 18, 17, turning 18. And I was hired on as a trainee by the NHL when I was 21. Unbelievable.

It sounds like you guys had the full District 5 set up, Mighty Duck style with the yellow buckets and the blue corduroys. What a visual, dude. That is unbelievable. Well, to be fair, to be fair, Quebec back in those days had blue and white stripes on their jerseys, referee jerseys. So the blue cornerways, they tied the room together. Yeah, they blend it in. That's perfect. But it wasn't always easy sledding for you in those early days.

You had an incident in minor hockey early where you almost decided to quit. You got attacked. You and your officiating partner get attacked by a couple of parents leaving a game in a bantam game, no less. What was that like? And then also, what did Doug Hayward say to you to kind of keep you in it and not let it get to you? Well, I mean, for those who don't know Doug Hayward, a lot of people in Canada, especially in Quebec, he's solely responsible for probably getting a dozen guys from Quebec into the NHL's referees.

He's the, is, was the officiating guru out of Quebec. He taught me so many things, and he was a mentor, he was tough on me, but he was also a really close friend. And it was my first year refereeing for him, 17 years old. I was doing, like you said, a bantam hockey game, travel hockey game. And we came out of the rink afterwards, and there was about 15 parents. standing around smoking cigarettes type thing. Somebody said something.

We just kept walking, put her head down. They came after us. Before you knew it, somebody suckered me with a punch in the back of the head. And all 15 parents jumped in. They were just, they were throwing punches. They were kicking us. One guy ran to get the car, pulled the car up. It was like a bank robbery scene.

Like we just sort of pushed ourselves through. We were just defending. We were even trying to fight back. Jumped in the car right to the police station, press charges, and threw, You know, friend of a friend of a friend. We identified sort of the instigator, and he got arrested. Good.

I called Doug Hayward, said, I'm done. Yeah. You know, I wasn't doing pro hockey at the time. I was doing Bandom hockey. And 17 years old. And I just said, I didn't sign up for this. There's no. And he said, I understand.

I'll give us some space, but I'm going to call you again in about two weeks. See if you change your mind. I said, fair enough. I'm not changing my mind. And then about 48 hours later, he called me. And he said, I'm a little soon. But listen, I got. games this weekend if you want them. And I went, okay, I'll do them. And it was probably the best

decision I ever made. Yeah, it sounds like it, man. I mean, it's funny. You hear that story and you go, oh, that's awful, but you know, not that shocking that one crazy hockey parent loses his mind, but it turns out it's about 15 of them, all lunatics who jump in on the fight. It was just group, it was group mentality. One guy started it and then everybody else jumped in. It was mothers as well. I mean, they were swinging their purses on me. And it was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. That's the thing.

People talk about, you know, in the NHL level, how security you ever worry about your safety. The NHL level, you get walked in and out of the building. You get walked in and out of the ice. There's cops. There's, there's, there's the safest place it can be. Yeah. Not so much in the minor ranks. Yeah, yeah.

Miners, you're on your own. I can't believe you guys made it to the car. That's the real miracle here. Although the wheelman there is a true hero. That's unbelievable. Well, I don't think he wanted to throw. a fist, so he was just round for the car. I'm just surprised he didn't bail on us

and just leave us standing there. So true. He's like, sees the chaos. He's like, I'm out of here. Getting, getting back on the ice two days later is remarkable though. What a beast. I love it. Yeah, I mean, when you're 17 years old, you have a short memory. Yeah, so true. Nothing,

a couple pops can't fix, right? Yeah, totally. Keep going. Amazing. Well, you did get up to the NHL and you made your NHL debut in 1990, December 22nd, Devils Nordiques. Sick game. God, that's awesome. And I want to ask, Jacks, what do you remember, because I don't know the process, what do you remember leading up to that?

Is it like, do you know you're about to get called up? Were you close to getting called up before? How does that work and how did it come to that you got that first shot in December? Yeah. So unlike a player who gets called up because he's playing well or, you know, they ask his coach, who's playing the best and they promote that guy or a position they need. With referees, I spent three years as a trainee, meaning I had no time. chance of being called up. I wasn't on contract. I was just signed various leagues,

five, six different leagues, and they would send supervisors to watch me. After three years, they had enough confidence that I was good enough to be hired. They hired me to a minor league contract. And then once you sign that, you become part of the union, part of the association, and then you're eligible to start doing games. So my first year on contract, I didn't do any games. I was 80 games in the American Hockey League. That's it. My second season, I had a good first two months based on the supervisor reports that they come and watch you work. And the assignments would come out a month at a time. And in the third set of assignments for December, I got an NHL game.

So I knew about, you know, three weeks ahead of time that I was going to be doing this NHL game. So there was time to sort of prepare, time to be nervous. You know, you talk about players. Some of them get called up for the first time the night before the game. Yeah, yeah. They don't really have time to think about it. I had three weeks to sort of think about it. Because I was from Montreal, I was pretty close to home too.

So a bunch of my buddies arranged, you know, minibuses up there. They're all buying tickets and everything. So there was, I tried to put that white noise aside and just focus on, you know, my family would be there, which was kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. And did you have butterflies? Like when you step, you know, I don't have the time to prep, but when you step out on

the NHL ice where you like, holy shit. Yeah. I've always told people, including when you're working playoff games, when you're a veteran and all that. Once you step on the ice, the butterflies tend to disappear. Okay. It's everything leading up to it. Like lying in bed the night before.

if it's a big game or pregame nap in the afternoon. That's when you let, you got to make sure your mind doesn't start putting negative thoughts in your head. So that's when I had the butterflies, you know, leaving for the rink and all that in the dressing room. I worked with two veterans that night. I worked with Ron Alslestein and Ray Scapanello. And between them, they have, you know,

they had 3,000 games at that point. Yeah, wow. Which is going to tie a bow at end of the story. But so when I went out on the ice, I'm walking down the runway, yeah, I had nerves. And the funny thing is, I didn't realize this, but Peter Statsny, who had been the captain of the Nordiques for a good number of years, had been traded. He'd been traded at the trading deadline, I believe, the year before. But he hadn't come back to Quebec. This was the first time back, and he was playing for the New Jersey Devils.

Well, either they came on earlier, or we were a little bit late coming to the ice, but I hit the ice at the exact same time the New Jersey Devils hit the ice, led by Peter Statsney. and the crowd went bonkers, like standing ovation. And for a split second, I'm thinking, hey, if they know it's my first game, they're cheering for me. God, my family brought a lot of people. I didn't know. Exactly. So we're skating around the ice, and Quebec hits ice and Tony McKegney comes skating by. He goes, hey, kid, they're cheering for you.

You know, it's your first game. We had a laugh about that. And then I kind of get to center ice after the anthem and realize that Gila Fleur is on the starting line. He's on the wing because he came out of retirement. it was playing for the Nordiques. And I grew up in Montreal. I mean, we all wore number 10, Gila Fleur playing road hockey when we were 10 years old, right? There was Gila Fleur.

And I kind of nodded to him and said, hey, Guy, he goes, hey, have a good game. He said to me, and I'm like, this is cool. I dropped the puck, and he whizzes by me twice. Hey, I'm hair flowing. That's when my stomach dropped. I'm like, oh, my God. Nice. This is real.

And then I think I called the penalty about three minutes in. And after that, everything kind of calmed down. And I said, this is just another game. Go ahead and work it. Lafleur scored a goal. Nordyx won, I think five, two. something like that. And after the game, my boss at the time, Brian Lewis,

came down to the referee's room and kind of winked and punched me in their shoulder. He said, hey, kid, you did a really good job tonight. You know, congratulations on your first game. He goes, the game went really smooth. And I looked at him. And I said, well, we got 3,001 games of experience here, Brian. I mean, of course it's going to go good.

Yeah. God, that is unbelievable, dude. What a first day. I was going to say, Chris, it's like, you know, you think about players' first games, and you hope something good happens for a ref first game to be a Quebec and more specifically a Montreal kid and have the Nordicke's in the game and then Gee playing on one of the teams. That is all time.

That's so cool. It was pretty cool. I did such a good game. I didn't get any more that year. But that wasn't a reflection, though, of my performance. It was just the numbers. But, no, it was one referee back in the day. And there just wasn't a lot of opportunities to bring a young guy up, you know, unless there was injuries

and stuff. So I got my one game, which was more of a, it was a reward for having done a good job. And then the following season, I think I did maybe 10, followed by about 30 to 40, my fourth season. And then I went full time after that. Unbelievable, man. And you kind of just addressed this, Jacks, but it was a few, several years later, in 99, April 22nd, you get the first playoff game. Bruins, Bruins Canadian, or excuse me, ruins canes. And at that point, you've got, you know, nine years in, I guess, like six or seven years full time. Is it like, is there a ramp up there though? Are you having those butterflies all over again?

Because you're like, holy shit, this is a playoff game? Yes and no. It was almost the opposite of my first game. So you got to understand back in the day, my first seven years before I got a playoff game, it was just one referee. And there was only 12 referees on staff. I was referee number 12. And 11 guys worked playoffs.

So if one of those guys, if they'd give me a playoff, if they'd give me a playoff, game, that would have meant one of those 11 guys ahead of me would have had to be removed from the playoffs, which is a big deal, removing a veteran from the playoffs. It means he's not performing, right? So I kind of understood, I kind of understood my lot in life that someone's going to have to retire, you know, it went to a two-man system. So it was a big break for me. You know, obviously spots opened up. But every year, I had done standby. And back in the day, when you worked standby, you didn't have to get changed, you have to get dressed, you'd be in a suit and tie. And I could sit by the glass. So I would have a ticket. I'd sit by the glass.

And I watch a playoff game, right? I'm munching on popcorn thinking like, I hope nobody gets hurt here. But I thought I was ready because you're down at ice level. You're seeing how intense it is and you're realizing it's way more intense than a regular season game. So I get my first playoff game. It's a two-man system. I'm working with Dan Maroelli. And I hit the ice and I'm skating around.

I'm feeling pretty good. Like I'm ready for this. And then the home team hits the ice and the fans go absolutely bonkers. You know, they got the white towels and they're waving everything. And I went, I've never been part of anything like this. And then we dropped the puck. And if you think the NHL regular season is fast, be on the ice in a playoff game.

It's ramped up threefold. And my mind was blown. My hair was on fire. I was like, I've never experienced anything like this. And I caught myself, like, just sort of being a spectator for the first two or three minutes. It was first commercial stoppage. My partner, Dan Marooli, he said, kid, he goes, yeah, I haven't really missed anything.

But you kind of look like you're, you're a little. bit lost, I said, you know what, I am. Like, I wasn't expecting this speed. I wasn't expecting it to be hockey to be this good and this fast. And I'd done at this point, I'd done 400 NHL games, you know? It's a whole different animal, playoff game. And you have to, but there's only one way to experience that is do it. And then, you know, my second game felt 100 times better. I was more comfortable. I knew what to expect. It was very steep learning curve, though, in that first game. Oh, my God. Do you. I'm just on that note, I'm curious, when you guys are in the refs room between periods, are you, are you, obviously later in your career, I'm sure there's some games where you guys are just shooting the shit, but are you giving each other feedback, you know, saying like, hey, you missed one here, you missed one there or, you know, watch out for this guy or something like that? What are you guys talking about between periods?

You know what? A lot of times guys will, if you can trust the guys you're with, it's more than asking for affirmation. You might be, you might be uncertain about a call you made. And you're asking the guys, hey, like, how do you, don't remember, we didn't have the video review than they have today. Sure, yeah, yeah. So you kind of had to live with a lot of your calls. And you'd be asking the guys, how'd you see it? I mean, do you think I made the right call here or would you've done something different?

Especially if you're deferring to a veteran. I mean, a lot of my first playoff games, I worked with Terry Grigson and, you know, Dan Merriwelly Don Koharski, Bill McCrory, those kind of guys. So you'd just try and soak up a wealth of information coming from them, and you'd ask them. And when it comes to linesmen, like a lot of the senior linesmen, they can help you out. They see things that your partner doesn't necessarily see

because they're watching from a different angle. They're not watching the same things that you're watching or your partner's watching. So it's really, it's a support group. I think it's the way three linemates would talk in the dressing room. Like, what are we doing right? What are we doing wrong? Are we not getting pucks deep enough? things like that.

And the same thing in the dressing room. And sometimes, and then sometimes there might be something glaring that maybe it's a junior guy or something. And they, one of the guys might come to the senior guy as you're going off the ice and say, hey, maybe you should address this with so-and-so in the dressing room. And that's sometimes the hard parts of being a team. You're a band of brothers out there. You're going out there to do a hockey game and you've got to have each other's back. And sometimes you've got to be brutally honest in the dressing room.

But it doesn't happen a lot, but there are times where it's needed, and I think it makes you a better team for the next period. Definitely. Dude, that makes perfect sense. Would you say, Jack, that the pressure, you're talking to the speed and everything, but for a player, they always talk about the pressure ramping up in playoffs. Does the pressure ramp up for you guys, too? Because you're like, man, a bad call here, especially pre-replay. You're like, Christ, a bad call could end someone's season. Do you guys feel that pressure to get everything right in playoffs?

You try not to, but human nature, I believe you do. and I think, and it should, I mean, it should actually have been a mantra all season long. Like, regular season games are important as well, right? But in a playoff game, especially late in a playoff game, sometimes in second overtime or whatever, is that a penalty is still a penalty. And if you've been calling penalties all game, you see a penalty. It needs to be called. But what I would always tell myself is there's no rush to throw your arm up.

Just count to one and a half. one steamboat, then throw your arm up. Make sure you've seen it the way you think you've seen it. Because there's nothing worse than throwing that arm up real quick and going, oh, I overreacted to that one. Yep. God, I never really thought about that. There's nothing wrong with waiting a heartbeat or two heartbeats before throwing

your arm up just to make sure you actually saw what you think you saw. Yeah. Yeah. I love hearing that because, I mean, I'm sure you see it. It's so, so funny how every time playoffs. comes around fan bases online just go nuts like the officiating is so bad blah blah blah blah and then you also see the god his arm went up so late on that one and I'm like now hearing that I think that's better I you know I'd rather you take a second so that's great to hear right

and a lot of times the arm that goes up late might be the referee in the neutral zone oh true he's looking at his partner who is looking at an infraction and he's going to take that split second saying he might be saying oh that's an easy call but then he realizes his partner doesn't have it. So up goes his arm. Yep. Or he might be going, listen, it's not a violent infraction. It's a restraining infraction in the corner.

And I don't want to step because he has a better sight line than me. So his judgment is every bit as good as mine. So I don't want to call one from 100 feet away if he sees something that I don't. But then sometimes what might happen is you all of a sudden realize he didn't see it. Yeah. Yeah. So you're deferring to him. saying his judgments is against his mind, but then you realize he didn't see it.

So it's not that he's not calling it. He didn't see it. So you've got to throw your arm up. And basically you bail your partner out, and he comes and thanks it. Hey, thanks, man. I didn't see that. I'm so glad you caught it. Yeah, that's interesting.

Something that we never really thought about when it came to refs until we became friends with guys like you and Roons and Wes was All-Star Games. And you've had the chance to do a couple of All-Star games in 2002 in L. which is unbelievable. You had studs like Mario, Nikki Lidstrom, Hasick in that game. But then again,

in 2018 in Tampa, with a lot of the stars we know today, but more importantly, that was your last year in the league. So your family got to come out. They got to be there to see that. That must have been such a cool honor. Were there any moments from those All-Star games

that stuck out to you that were a little bit different than regular season or playoff games? Or were you just kind of drinking in the whole experience each time? Well, I mean, an All-Star game, there's no secret. It's not tough to referee. You kind of just get to have fun, right?

Yeah. I've done two All-Star games. There's been two penalties total, and I didn't call either one. Clean record. I like that. Yeah. So although, I'll tell you story, the game in L.A., Jeremy Aronick was playing, and it was North America against Europe.

Yes, that's right. And the very first shift at a game, he foreshucks the guy around the net. I can remember, like it was yesterday, at five feet from me, and he finishes his check. He runs the guy. He just blows him up. into the glass. And I'm kidding you're not. The other like nine guys in the A's almost stopped.

They were like, what are you doing? If that's not J.R. Yeah. That's not J.R. I don't know what it is. And I was thinking of myself, I guess I'm going to have to referee tonight. You know, I'm going to.

But it settled right down after that. It was fine. But the All-Star game is not, it's an honor to be selected, but it's so much for your families. And the players probably say that too. Like I traveled. I was gone 20 days a month when I was refereeing.

You miss a lot of stuff. You miss your kids' birthdays, school plays. You know, you're not home long time at Christmas. You're gone. You're on the road. So you get to bring your family. My daughter wasn't born at the time. But my two boys, they were like seven and nine at the time.

And they got a pass lanyard around their neck full access. Yeah. So I went in the dressing room one time. And there's my two boys. sitting in the dressing room with like, I believe, I forget if Mary Lemieux is there, Patrick Gwa, there's Rob Blake, my Yager was in the European room, and they've got like Patrick Guas gloves on, his blocker and his thing, they've got Rob Blake stick in their hand, Chris Pronger's got one of my kids on his shoulder, like they're just treating these kids like they're their own

kids. And then we go through the skills competition. And I remember having like a love, hate relationship with the late Pat Quinn, who he was such a good man, but we had our battles when it was on the ice. And both my boys were over on the other bench. And he's yelling at me before his skills competition. I'm like, well, what's Pat yelling at me

for now? It's a skills competition, right? So I go over there. I go, what are you yelling at me for now? And he goes, I hear your boys wearing a Toronto Maple Leafs jersey. And he was coaching the Maple Leafs at a time. I said, yeah, he is. His favorite player at the time, I believe, was Matt Sondine. he goes, well, go get him.

So I go right at her bench, and he weighs 50 pounds. I pick him up. I skate him across the ice, put him beside Pat Quinn. Pat puts him on the bench, puts his arm around him. He's got the unlit cigar in his mouth, and he says, you're going to stand here with me, young man, and I'm going to explain the intricacies of the game to you. And my son, his eyes were just like saucers, open big.

So I'm standing, then he looks at me, he goes, we won't be needing you anymore. So I skated away. My son, Ryan, stood with Pat Quinn, the whole, the whole skills competition. And during the breakaway competition, my other son, Shane, who had on a Tommy Sallow jersey from Edmonton,

was sitting on the bench beside Tommy Sallow eating popcorn. And Tommy was explaining how goalies defend on breakaways and stuff. I mean, it was just fantastic for my boys. Like, they just had, they had so much fun. It was,

it was greatest experience for a dad that you could provide to your kids. And the players were so generous with their time. And then, you know, 18 years later or 16 years later, I was able to bring my daughter as well as my two boys. So now my boys are late 20s, early 30s, one who's now an NHL linesman. Yeah. But they're just having a time of their life.

They're going around drinking beers. They got full access. And my daughter, I was probably 16, 17 at the time, she's having the time of her life as well. I mean, she's down full access, getting autographs. At that age, you know, NHL hockey players are a pretty big deal. and she comes back to school with her autographed jersey and all the names on her back and everything.

She was a big deal. So it was just two of the greatest experiences I could provide for my kids. And it was just so much fun. That is awesome. That is unbelievable, dude. They will tell that, they will tell those stories for the rest of their lives.

And that's what it's all about. That's what it's all about. That is so great. I wanted to ask, Jax, about the outdoor game you got to do. Cors Field 2016. And it's Wings as a great game. I checked the Voxcore. It's like five goals in the third period.

Wings win five, three, nine minor penalties, five on the abs, four on the wings. Very fair. Very fair. And obviously, at the end of the day, we go to these outdoor games. It's just a regular season game. It's two points. But it is cool and probably a similar vibe for how cool it is for your family and stuff. So was that extra special for you too?

Well, the whole weekend was fantastic. But what I remember the most was the alumni game. It was Colorado, Detroit. And it was all the guys that played in the heyday of the rivalry. Yeah. And I was part of that. I mean, I didn't do any of the games that are the highlight games that we see, you know, were bench clearing brawls. But I did games before and after those brawls between those two teams.

And it was crazy. But when they showed the montage, it was about eight minutes long of the stuff that went on. And most of it wasn't penalized. Yeah. And I was just shaking head going, wow, is our game ever changed? Yeah. we didn't call a lot of penalties back then. And now we do.

And I'm for the better. But it was just, it was an eye opener of how much the game has changed and how much more we police the game as referees than we did back in the late 90s. And then the next day, you couldn't have asked for better weather. At the puck drop, I think it was about 68 degrees. My wife and daughter had flip-flops on. It was, you know, outdoor game. It was just, it was spectacular.

And they had all the fake cotton. It looked like snow all around. And wind picked up late in the day. So the cotton was blowing. It was like blankets of cotton blowing everywhere. It looked like a snowstorm almost. But it was such a good hockey game. And I wasn't sure I was going to be that impressed by it.

But it was hard not to be when you're out there on the ice, the anthem. They get the F-18s doing the flyover. And to just be in a building that big and to just look around and take it all in, it was really enjoyable. that it was something that was just unforgettable. It's the same reaction, yeah. Yeah, it's special every year. It's like you kind of get desensitized to it, but then when you get there and you see the ice out on the fields

and all of the different spectacles they have set up, you do kind of go, wow, this is unbelievable. It's really special. Going through your hit list is unbelievable, and another one is the Olympics. Yeah. So cool to have gotten to do that. You go to Sochi, you get three games,

you get a Russia game, which is unreal being there. You get a Canada game. game, that's incredible. How fired up were you when you got the call that you were going to be going to do the Olympics? Oh, it was first of all, you never think you're going to go to Russia. Yeah, seriously, dude.

I mean, that's just, you never anticipate that at some point in your life, you're going to be in Russia. Although being in Sosci was, I'm not sure you really got your dose of Russia. It wasn't St. Petersburg or Moscow. It was more like if a

Russian were to say, I'm going to come to America. and he hopped on a plane and flew to Anaheim, went to Disneyland, and then got back on a plane and went home, and said he'd been to America. You didn't really see America. He didn't go to New York, Vegas, Miami, any of those places, right?

So it was a very small slice of Russia, but being selected to go to the Olympics and just the magnitude of working the Olympics and everything around it and being in the Olympic Village, going to the other events, having access to. to everything.

You saw some speed skating, some curling. I brought a buddy of mine. He went up to the mountains, took the train, saw all the, all the mountain sports. And it was just, because it was Russia and because there was some security concerns, the guys didn't bring their wives the way they normally would have if they'd been in the other cities. Because we had the charter. We didn't pick our own flights and fly over there.

We all went over together. And if we had brought our wives, they had to commit to the entire 18 days. Oh, yeah, couldn't go back. Yeah. And most of us had young kids. So it just wasn't able to really feasible. So we became a really tight-knit group. Like guys didn't go off and do things with their family.

They were just all kind of went to watch each other's games, support each other, hanging around the hotel at night, having a couple of beers, telling stories. We got to meet all the officials from other sports and share stories. It was just a lot of fun, a lot of camaraderie. and it was just great to experience the Olympics, something that you never ever dream that you thought you would get to do. Yeah, we got the opportunity to go this year,

and it's so unbelievable how palpable the energy is. Everyone there from all over the world makes it so much more special. And I can only imagine how cool to be able to do that as a combination of both as a hockey fan and, you know, someone who likes to travel, but then also being able to do it as a checklist on your, unbelievable career. Yeah. It's so cool.

Some great mementos, too. You know, I've got my jersey with the IHF on it. It's got the game pox and the lineup cars and stuff. And unfortunately, they're on some plastic bin in my garage somewhere. But I keep saying one day, one day they're going on the wall. Yeah. We'll get them up there. Jack, could you feel when we got there this year, and I guess, Dan, this kind of happened to us at Four Nations also,

but we were blown away how much, how the passion from the guys comes through. did you feel that too when you do an Olympic game? Because you're kind of like, you know, it's the middle of the season. It's especially the group stage games, like whatever. It's an exhibition in a way. But then when we got there, I was like, holy fuck, these guys care so much. Did you get that impression too? I did.

I don't think it was quite the passion of the three opening fights at Center Ice. Yeah. But the way to Four Nations was. However, yes, I remember doing Copatar's team. Oh, yeah. They ended up, I think it was a quarterfinal. game I was refereeing. They ended up winning, and that's the furthest his country had ever made it in the Olympics. And they were just delated. I mean, their goal, I mean, I'm sure their goal was gold medal,

but realistically, they achieved every goal they set out for. They made it further. And they were so, they were just trying so hard to be. And a lot of them were NHLers. So it was really cool to see that. And then to be, to be in the stands, we had, we had really good seats for any games we weren't refereeing. We were literally eight rows on the ice. To see Russia play the U.S., that was the T.J. Oshie game. I remember, yeah, of course.

Oh, yeah, baby. That was phenomenal. And then to watch the gold medal game between was it Sweden and Canada, it was yeah, that was like a Stanley Cup game, Stanley Cup final. It was it was mine alone. The energy in the building

it was you cut the tension with a knife. Yeah, epic. Well, actually, perfect segue because Dan and I always do these power rankings of the best Barnes in the league, you know, today. But I heard you telling stories about old Chicago Stadium and the forum in Montreal. So can you paint us a picture of the atmosphere in those places? Because we are always saying some of those Four Nations games, U.S. Canada was the loudest and the Rogers Center for Stanley Cup games. Loudest I've ever heard.

But I got to hear about the Chicago Stadium. Well, the loudest stadium probably ever, I was in with Chicago Stadium. Yeah. And they had a massive map. For those people that you should Google it and look at it. pictures of the old pipe organ in Chicago. Like, it was up just above, like, it was in the end zone, and I'm going to guess it was maybe 10 to 20 rows up in a lower bowl.

It was right there, and it looked like Phantom and the Opera. Like, I mean, it was just this massive, massive pipes, like, that went up to the ceiling and everything. And on really cold winter days, so these pipes went up to the ceiling, I believe they had like a damper that opened when the... Yeah, yeah. On really cold, windy days, it would be on the ice, and it sounded like there were ghosts in the building, because the wind,

We were whipping up these down. Yeah. Oh, my God. But for the anthem, I don't know how the tradition started. There was a small building. And for the anthem, the crowd would just scream at the top of their lungs about two thirds that away through the song. It would start getting louder and louder and louder.

By the end of the anthem, you couldn't hear the singer speaking. It literally felt if you've ever been to an air show and you stand on the ground on an F-18s like are low off the deck and they blow by and the whole ground shakes. Yeah. That's how it felt. It was hard not to cry. They'd get that emotional and how loud Chicago Stadium was. That's so cool.

As far as just old buildings, I was lucky enough to work every building except the corral in Calgary and the building before the Joe Lewis Arena, which was the... Oh, wow. I'm forgetting the name of it, but I worked every other building. And the Montreal Forum and Maple Leaf Gardens

where they just... The Montreal Forum, You could have spilled food on the floor about a Zamboni, and you just pick it back up and eat it. That's how clean. The place was 100 years old and the place was so clean. It's awesome. The ice was on Toronto and Montreal. Ice was on street level.

Okay, wow. So you could walk by outside on Atwater and you look through the glass doors and if the ushers hadn't closed the curtains, you could see the hockey game going on in there. That's epic. And I always remember Montreal Forum too is that the distance, they had to put ramps down for the Zernerner Donbony. The distance between the ice and where the doors closed was a good like two and a half feet. Yeah. So it was always so cool.

You come down the runway and the rubber mats and you have to get a running start because he didn't want to be like this old man. You're sort of dipping your toe in the pool, right? So you get this running start and you come leaping off this two and a half foot, you know, boards onto the ice. But our dressing room was just right around the corner, which when we weren't, when we weren't coming on or off the ice, it was an open walkway for the fans. So you get walked in a referees room by the cops and the usher. Yeah. They'd make sure you in there okay. And then they'd come and get you with three minutes.

But then during the other 12 minutes or so, they would just go get a coffee or something. So you'd be sitting there just talking. You know, all of a sudden, it'd be somebody kicking your door and yelling obscenities at you. Yeah, yeah. It was pretty neat. And to have grown up in Montreal and gone to the Montreal form of my dad and watched all those legends like Gila Fleur and Yvon, Larry Robinson. Sir Sevard, Ken Dryden to do a game in the Montreal Forum.

And my first ever regular season game was the banner raising in 1993. They'd won the cup against All-A in spring before. So to stand in center ice and watch them raise the banner, it was pretty emotional to see how far in full circle as a little kid up in the nosebleed section, watching these games to being on the ice and watching the banner being raised. And then, of course, you dropped the puck and everybody hates you from both teams. And you're like, I used to do this. I used to boo the reps.

That's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, and people always ask me, how do you make the transition from being a fan of a team to then trying to be fair? And the thing is, from the time you get hired by the NHL till I did a Montreal Canadiens game was probably seven or eight seasons. Yeah, wow. And in that time, you're doing pro hockey and you're doing all these players that you're having battles with and you argue. with and by the time you do that first NHL game, it's no longer Gila Fleur and Ken Dryden and search of art.

It's just all these guys you had arguments with in St. John's Newfoundland or Muskegon or, you know, wherever. You realize it's just a sweater. It's not the guys you idolized. They're like any other players. So you just go and do your job. God damn. That's so fun.

Speaking of interactions, I mean, you have all those awesome ones with crazy fans. You've had some pretty electric player interactions throughout your career. and I think my favorite one that I've heard about is your first ever Kings game, you give an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty to Waino. And you've said before that you thought that that might be your last game ever. Did Wayne ever talk to you after that? How did that go down? It was two games and one, I thought, my first and last game.

Yeah, yeah. Two milestones. No, it was just, there was a fight. A guy jumped on the ice on a line change and chased a player up and down the ice. for like three lengths of the ice, and then they both agreed to fight, and they both got five minutes for fighting. And at the, at the players bench, Wayne wanted an instigator called,

and I didn't think it was an instigator. And we obviously agreed to disagree. Sure. In the polite way of saying it. Yeah, choice words, I'm sure. He probably had a few choice words, and you know what? I realized later, because it happened to me with other captains, Mark Messy, we joke about it now.

Like, he was no ways he got to deal with, especially as a rookie. There was a lot of captains that were tough on you back in the day. And he was captain of his team, and he'd never see me. I had no idea who I was. So he might have pushed it a little bit, see what are you going to get away with? And he got away with it and went back to the bench. And I went, you know, skating down into the corner.

And I realized that I probably let too much go. He was testing me and I let too much go. And before the puck was even dropped, there was an incident at the bench. So I'd go out of the bench. And he gave it to me again. and I just reacted and I gave him two unsportsmanlike and the arena, L.A. Forum erupted, but water bottle, almost 100 water bottles on the ice. And that's when it hit me.

I said, oh, my God, I just gave Wayne Gradsky in an sportsmanlike conduct penalty. I'm a rookie in the league. Yeah. And I wondered if I'd done the right thing. And then all these thoughts started entering in my head. Like, what if he doesn't come? What if he just sits on the bench and forces me to give him like 10 or maybe a game misconduct? like this game wasn't even on TV.

It was back in the day. It was like 1993. It might have been a local L.A. broadcast, but it wasn't on national TV. And I'm thinking, if I throw him out of the game, it's going to be on SportsCenter and TSN, and everyone's going to be blaming me. And all these thoughts are going through your head as a rookie, right? But no, he came.

He didn't say a word. He came. He slammed the door. He knew he deserved it. And he came out of the box and scored a winning goal. Boom. So all. Perfect thing.

works out. All's well that ends well. And I mean, we had many interactions after that, but I think they were always respectful. And I just, I think he was just testing me. That's all. And that's, like I said, he wasn't the only one that tested me. I was tested by pretty much every captain of that era. Yeah.

Oh, that's so great. And, you know, another great interaction with another great one. You told this story on our buddy Merrick's show, but, you know, we want our listeners to hear it, too. Can you share the story about the cross check with Crosby and your retirement? it. Oh yeah. So I always felt that a pretty good relationship with Sid and we're doing a game in Buffalo and it was a really spirited game. There was probably eight, nine, ten penalties in the first period alone. It was an afternoon game. You know, afternoon games can be really, they go one way to another, right? Players either mail it in or they're just kind of pissed off. They're playing at one o'clock and they just go all in, right? Well, that was one of those games. And they were going after each of them. a hard all game. Sid's back checking and the guy makes a move on his on his D-Man and it was kind of accidental. The guy went right and then he cut left real fast and got in Sid's lane, but Sid blew him up

with a cross-check and I threw my arm up, called the penalty and it was a commercial stoppage. So we had time to sort of chat as he went to the box and he was adamant that he didn't cross-check the guy. He was respectful, but he was really upset. He goes, you know, you're going to have to watch that penalty. and you're going to have to come out and tell me you're sorry and how you screwed to call up.

And I said, well, we don't, we don't, this was back a number of years ago. We didn't have televisions in our room at the time. I told them, I said, I'll check after the game. And next time I see, I'll let you know. So we come out next period to skate around. We're only three on the, four on the ice. And he's the first guy out the door for Pittsburgh.

He makes a B-line right to me and he says, Hey, Jax, I watched it. You were right. I was wrong. I'm really sorry. And, you know, I had no doubt what a class act he was. But that just solidified it to me. Like he,

he was, he took the high road here and he realized that players get so intense and they don't realize sometimes what they're doing. And then they watch it on video and he came, he came right to me. And he made a point of saying, you were right, I was wrong.

It was on call for what I said. Yeah, that just, I mean, that goes a long way. Because as a referee, you try and admit when you're wrong, you always try to admit your mistakes.

Because you can't just lie to a player and tell him something that's not true. So when it goes the other way, That just gains you so much respect in the eyes of officials when you own up to something. And then in my final game, it wasn't my final game, my final season, final time seeing Pittsburgh, one of the linesmen must have told the bench that, you know, it was like four minutes left in the game, that it was my last time seeing them. I was retiring. He came right off the bench, came over to the referees crease and asked me why I was retiring.

I said, well, I need two new hips. My back hurts, my knee hurts. I'm 54 years old. It's time to go. And he said, well, I wish you weren't leaving, but we really miss you. We're going to miss you. And thank you for all you've done. And I thought that was a real class act.

And then when the game ended, there was a knock on the door. And the Pittsburgh trainer was there. And Sid had signed a stick to me and thanked me for putting up with them all these years. I mean, I didn't ask him for anything. He just did that on his own. Just a real class act. Yeah. He's one of the best to do it, man.

He really is. Like that. And Jackson, it was 100% a cross check. I've watched it. Yeah, we did watch it. It's a crossjack. Totally. He totally got him. Jacks, what do you think about, you mentioned at the top of this coming into a new season, there aren't a lot of rule changes right now, but the game is always evolving, and we've seen

a lot of change recently. Are there any rules in the game right now that you would like to change, either something you want to add, something you want to get rid of, anything that comes to mind that you would switch up? I would like to see the ability of the referee to call a double minor for spearing. Oh, love that. Cool. Yeah, yeah. In the rule book, the way it reads now,

referees can call a double minor for an attempted spear. Okay. But if contact is made, it has to be a five-minute. Oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That kind of handcuffs the referees. And I'll tell you what happens, and you guys know what I do.

You get a guy in front of the net, defenseman, who takes his stick and places the tip of his stick on the guy's calf and pushes, and the guy goes, you know, falls back on his ass. What's the referee call there? He calls two for tripping, right? Right. Why not call four for sparing? Yeah, it would stop.

He didn't try and take his spleen out. It wasn't a, you know, super dangerous play, but it wasn't a trip. He used a stick to knock him down. Let's let him call four minutes for sparing. Or in scrums, you'll see the linesman will be in there. You'll have the player. They're still jarring at each other. And the guy will take one hand on his stick and he'll poke the guy in the stomach with it.

Yeah. What's the referee call? He usually calls two minutes. for slashing. Why not make the guy sit for four? And I understand why the referee is not calling five. It's not worth a major penalty. But his hands are tied.

He can't call four. I'd love to see him be able to call four. Yeah. That's great because we've seen stuff like that recently, in playoffs especially, even with like the butt end sticking out, you know, in those scrums. The same thing. And that was the referees could not, they couldn't determine if there was contact. So they went double minor, which I'm okay with that call because they gave him more

than two. But I would like to see that. And the other one is just obviously everybody talks about the offside review, how they take so long. And, you know, I don't, the genie's out of the bottle. We're not going back. I don't think you should be, we have the technology. Why allow an offside goal?

But I do think there's ways to maybe amend the rule a little bit. Like whether it's a stopwatch, if you're 15 seconds after the fact, maybe no review. The one I like that would be my recommendation. is if the defensive team at any point gains possession and control, then it negates any review. I'm so good that one. You had your chance to get the puck out. That's just one.

Or the other one, but there's already enough markings on the ice. But you could put a little thin line, like a goal line, about maybe 18 inches inside the blue line. And then you would call it like the no-fly zone in there. Yeah. Linesmen would still do their best to get the call right at the blue line. But if they wave it off and it turns out it's offside, if that puck or the park or the skater is offside hasn't made it to that second line, 18 inches in,

then you can't review it. And people say, well, it's still going to take you just as long because you're going to be splitting hairs at that thin line. I agree. But linesmen don't miss 18 inch off sides very often. Yeah. So the frequency of the reviews would be much less.

Yeah. That's a great take. And, Jax, I got to, the only one I want to bring up is what the hell was that fucking call with the Carolina OT game in playoffs where they scored in, but then it was reviewed that they were offside, but then Martinuk still got a penalty shot, even though that infraction happened after the illegal entry. I was like, what is happening here? That was ridiculous. See, it's no different. When we first brought the offside review in, I was doing a game in Boston and I believe is Mike Babcock was coaching Toronto. And the Boston player beat the defenseman, but he turned out ultimately to be offside. But in real time, he beat the defenseman. Defenseman hooked him. So I threw my arm up for a hooking penalty, assessed the hooking penalty, put the guy in the box.

I'm sorry, I'm screwing the story up. He scored on the play. I had delayed, delayed penalty. Yeah, yeah. He scored. He scored. So I dropped the arm, no penalty, goal. Well, Toronto decides to challenge.

turns out the Boston player was offside so now it's no goal but they're still getting the penalty for hooking and Mike called me or he goes why is my guy getting a hooking penalty because if the call had been correct the whistle would have gone and he never would have hooked him yeah and I literally had to go over to my partner and go

are we still assessing a penalty because it was brand new it was the first week in a season basically and we both thought about it versus I go yeah the penalty still assessed and and that's just because where do you? draw the line. Like, what if it was a two-handed, two-handed to the ankle? Do we just let that go because the gold is overturned? So you can't, I don't think, I mean, maybe you could say if it's a stick infraction, it's still assessed. If it's a restraining infraction, it's not assessed. I guess that

would be a happy medium, but it's just, it's tricky. It's tricky. There's just, there's just too many what-have-you is, what is, what ins and outs. Let's just, you know, you got a delayed penalty, you assess it. And a penalty shot's the same thing as a delayed penalty. Yeah, I love it. All this kind of fits into the, it's very cool that you've now become this rules analyst on ESPN. And I'm curious if that was ever anything that kind of popped into your head when you decided to retire, if this is something that you were thinking about doing. But also, it's just, it goes deeper into all these things we're currently talking about. You had another great quote where you said the point of replay isn't to put a microscope on plays,

it's to prevent egregious bad calls. And I love that comment. I love that take because I think more people need to realize. that. But you also ask, like we're kind of discussing, how much more stressful is it, knowing that, you know, there are all these reviews that can happen. You could, you know, maybe remove a really terrible call or get something else. It's, it adds another layer to the game. It does. But any amount of stress that it is for me in the broadcast booth is minuscule compared to those poor guys on the ice that are, that are having a review to call. But I do think that for the most part,

We've got all the major scenarios covered in that an egregiously bad call can be rectified for the most part. There's still going to be ones. I mean, we had so many in the finals this year, and a lot of them were the right call, but there's still going to be things that replay can't fix and they become judgment calls. And even if you go to review, so many of these calls are still judgment calls. You're just removing the judgment from the ice, putting it somewhere else, but it's still a human making that judgment call. So hockey is a game of mistakes.

If it wasn't, we'd have zero-zero ties every game. Right? Players make mistakes. Goaltenders make mistake. Coaches make mistakes. Referees are going to make mistakes. And you just hope to learn from your mistakes, not make the same mistake twice, and you move on. I just hope that doesn't happen too often.

Jacks, on that topic, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. But how hard is it for you when the broadcast cuts to you, there's a, call on the ice and not so much the ones where they're asking you to explain it but when you sometimes point blank get asked like do you think that that was a good call is that brutal for you because these guys on the ice are your colleagues you've been in their shoes you've been in their skates is there a part of you that's like i kind of have to agree with them because i'm not going to sewer my buddies here or are you like if it's a bad call say it's a bad call it was tougher for me originally when i first started until i kind of until i kind of found my footing i um i'm i

didn't, I wasn't really comfortable how to address that. As I got more comfortable addressing it, I realized, you know, I speak to these guys. Every couple of years, I will attend their training camp on the days they have the rule sessions so that I can stay current. Yeah. I want to stay current with the rules and the insurance, not just the rules, but the interpretation. And that's so much what I do on Twitter, somebody will quote the rule to me, and I will say, that's the rule.

That's how you're interpreting it. but I'm telling you how the NHL interprets this rule. And I've been in that room and listened to the boss, explain how that rule is going to be interpreted. So I think I know what I'm talking about when I say that. But I talk to the referees and I go, listen, like, there's times where I can't defend you guys. There are going to be bad calls.

And unanimously, they've said to me, we don't want you defending us when we have made a bad call. We don't want you beating us up on it. Yeah, that makes sense. But we don't need you to defend it. We know we made a bad call. We need to face it head on, so you shouldn't have to defend us. So, I mean, I think what I will say now is that if the referee on the ice had the opportunity to see it the way we're seeing it in the replays, he would not have made that call.

Yeah, that's good. I think that's a very diplomatic way to say it. And it's honest. That's great. You know, I mean, people have no idea until you've done the job. Oh, I can't imagine. The speed of the play and the limited sight lines that you get. get sometimes. You've got you've got 10 skaters on the ice all over six foot tall and a little

small puck and you're looking through players who, and you're making sure you don't get run over yourself or hit with the puck. And you're trying to get the proper sight line to see what happens when these guys are skating at times 24 miles an hour. So what looks like a panel, I have no doubt, I mean, I could write a compendium of calls that I missed or were bad calls in my career. I mean, I had so many of them. Everybody does. Yeah. You just hope that your good calls are way more frequent than your bad calls, right?

But I would say 99% of the calls I missed or made that were wrong, I didn't think they were wrong at the time. Yeah. It wasn't until I saw the replay that I realized it either was or wasn't the penalty. Yeah. So for fans that just blanketly say these guys are incompetent or no good. That's not the case. They're just not seeing it from the angle that we're seeing it from. I mean, how many times does something happen on the ice where nobody says boo until they show the replay?

And then everybody's up in arms as to have the referee missed that. Well, you all missed it as well. Nobody saw it until the play stopped and they showed a replay of it. That's a great point. So, so true. That's amazing. I love it. I love it. Okay, Jax, we're going to play a couple quick games with you before we get you out of here.

The first one we do is called the Netter Speed Run. So we just ask you a couple questions and you just give us your knee-jerk answers to it. You guys are setting me up now. You didn't tell me this was happening. You didn't tell me math. You didn't tell me math that's going to be required. Jacks, don't work. This is all personality stuff.

This is the good stuff. This is what everyone wants to hear. Can I pass? Yes. You know what's funny? You're not going to want to. You won't want to love all these questions. All right.

All right. Let's go. Okay. Question one. What is your death row dinner? Like your favorite main course ever? Last Meal on Earth? Probably either veal or chicken parm with a thick noodle, like a rigatoni or a penny.

Amazing. I love it. Okay, what is your favorite place in the world? I don't have a favorite place. I'll give you a list of places I love. In fact, I just got back from Ireland where my son got married. Oh, my God. That's my new favorite place in the world.

But I love it here in Arizona. I love New York City, one of my favorite cities. I love Rome. I love Hawaii. I love California. Denver. Montreal, right? I grew up in Montreal.

I was waiting for Montreal. That's a long speed round, but I'm sorry, I've got five or six. I'm going to give you. That's perfect. CP Jacks is the Tom Brady of places. His favorite is the next one. I like it. That's amazing.

Okay, what is your favorite cocktail? I'm mostly a beer guy. Okay, I'll take a beer. Well, beer's okay? Right now I'm this, I've become this Irish stout snob being back from Ireland. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife lost.

My wife, laughed. I drove down from Colorado with the dog to Tucson. It's like a 13-hour ride. And she's got, you know, she got my location on the phone. She sees I'm in Tucson and she waiting for me to call her. And like an hour goes by and she sees I'm like, I'm nowhere near my house. So she calls me and goes, what are you doing? I go, well, I found this store that sells this really hard-to-get Irish stout.

So I thought I'd make the detour to go get this Irish stout. But normally, any beer of flavor, like an Irish stout. Okay. An IPA, probably my two favorites. Yeah, that was amazing. I love it. Okay, what is the best type of shoe? Hmm.

I used to be a big dress shoe guy. It would always be a lace-up. I wasn't a big fan of wingtips. I liked them to be a little bit pointier. But now, since I work from home, I would say, either a really comfy sneaker or a flip-flop. Oh, flip-flop's a great answer. I don't know why.

I thought he was going to say flip-flop. So I like that. Incredible answer. Not to be confused with Crocs. Yeah, yeah, correct. Very important distinction. Okay, what is your favorite comfort movie? You know, you throw this movie on whenever you want, makes you feel good.

Big Lebowski. When you said tie the room together earlier, I knew you had a Big Lebowski phone in you. That's awesome. Hall of Fame answer. What is the perfect amount of people to go to dinner with? Six. Yes. Nice.

I'm six, too. C. I love six. I love six. Six, but four or six, five's bad because if you got a square table, that one person gets the seat with no one. And they're out of the conversation. Yeah, exactly. Even numbers for sure.

Okay. What is the best holiday? The best holiday. Well, the best single holiday is a golf trip with the guys. Correct. And the best family holiday. My wife was an early Disney cruise line person, but now we're owned by Disney. And I love taking, I love taking Disney cruises.

Whoa. We took one, you know, I'm not just talking like lying on a beach. We took one out of Rome three summers ago. We did six Ports a call in Italy. We were three in Greece. We went to Spain. We went to France. And I'd never been to Europe at this point.

Dude, that is an epic trip. It was like a little appetizer of places you might want to go back to. It was fantastic. And then you never have to decide we're going to have for dinner because you just meet up in a dining room and order whatever you want. And then the following summer, we went to Norway and to Iceland out of London. Oh, my God. And we just had an absolute blast. I want to do that one so badly.

That's incredible. Yeah. That's phenomenal. All right. What is your favorite article of clothing? Favorite article of clothing is probably a really light hoodie. T-shirt quality hoodie

It keeps the sun off you When you're out It doesn't you don't overheat Amazing That's a great specific answer T-shirt hoodie is a slept-down Article of Clothing Great for golf too by the way

Yep Okay what is the best ever video game I'm curious about this one Really dating myself here Because I've never played video games God We couldn't afford When I was a kid

When I was a kid Couldn't afford them my parents wouldn't buy them for me and when I was 18, 19, 20 I was working for the NHL traveling. Too busy. Never played video games. My kids are all over video games

and I try and play them and I get so frustrated because they're just, whatever game it is, they're just dominating me. So I just throw it away and go watch the Big Lebowski. I love it.

Screw them. All right. And then finally, Jacks, what is the best thing that you can cook? The best thing that I can cook, I make a really good filet mignon in a cast,

In a cast iron frying pan. Nice. Oh my God. That's incredible. Yeah. And the secrets in the, what I put, I put some like, well, it's not a secret, but equal amount salt and sugar on top. Oh, hell yeah.

And that sugar just caramelizes and sears the filibino. It's really, really good, really tender inside. And those cast iron frying pans, there are really underused cooking utensils. Yeah. Yep. People get too scared of how to clean them. But it's okay. You just got to use them and it's amazing.

God, that was tremendous stuff right there. Well done, Jacks. If we can go back to my favorite movie, if you ask me my favorite concert movie, it'd be the last waltz. Greatest concert movie ever made.

And if any of your listeners have never heard of it, they've got to go watch the last waltz. It'll blow your mind. I love it. That's incredible. Yep. So good. That's great.

All right. Now, Jacks, we're going to close you out with a game called Passchutes. score. It's basically a ranking system. We're going to pick some things that we know you're fond of. Give you three and you've got to rank them pass shoot score. Pass is okay. That's great. It's nice to snap the puck around. Shoots better. We like getting puck's on net. Score is the ultimate goal. So score is going to be your highest choice. Your first one is going to be game puck from your career. So it's pass shoot to score, a Sochi Olympics puck, a 2018 NHL All-Star game puck, and your favorite

playoff puck. Well, of those three, the Social Olympic puck was like the crown jewels. We could not take them out of the bucket. We couldn't leave the game with one. No, no. It was like there was security

around the bucket. And they promised us, literally if you took a puck, they'd come in the room, they knew you took it, they'd take it back from you. We were promised. We were promised on the final day of the tournament. We would each be presented with five or six pucks.

Okay. And they were true to their word. They did. So those were like gold. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. The All-Star puck would come in third, so that's a pass.

And instead of playoff, it were probably in my first NHL game, Quebec Nordique logo. Would be the shoot. I love that. That's fantastic. Now, here's the thing, though. We got to get these things up in a display. I've heard you said that you got them in a box. We got to display these things.

Like we got to set a designated wall with these pucks up. We do. You guys come down to Tucson for the weekend. I'll cook the steaks. I'll fill a fridge with Guinness. And you guys bring your hammer and nails and you can hang up on my jerseys. I was going to say, we'll get the IHF jersey up too. Dan, what's crazy is he thinks this is a joke.

And you just described an incredible weekend for me. So I am so in on this. LA to Tucson is the easiest flight of my life. I'll be there in two weeks. It'll be fantastic. That is amazing. Okay, Jack, your next category is golf at road cities. So when you were traveling, and I know you're going to be biased on one of these, but road cities to golf in or a road places to golf in.

Vegas, Florida, Arizona. Early in my career, golfed a lot on the road because there were not, we went from not having any Sunbelt cities. Oh, right. Other than L.A., St. Louis was probably the furthest south you would go. And some good golf there, too. And then all of a sudden you got Florida, you got Tampa, you got San Jose, Anaheim, Dallas. They all came in the league. I would have to say on the road, we didn't play a lot of golf in Vegas.

Didn't play a lot of golf in Arizona. But we used to play a ton of golf in Tampa, early on especially. Back in the Philospisito days, he would – Yeah. He would, a lot of the guys I worked with were older guys that he'd been on the ice with, and he was GM a tap, and he'd set up golf rounds for the guys. We'd play on our days off and stuff. It was so, for me, I've played my most golf on the road in Florida.

Okay. So Florida, Florida score for sure. Yeah, Florida's a score. Yeah, and then, well, what kind of golf, you must be playing a ton of golf in Arizona now. I play about once a week in Arizona. It's hot, but I love the heat. you just make sure you've got a big, wide-brimmed hat on, lots of water, maybe a few cold, course, lights. Yeah.

And, but water is the key. I mean, you put the electrolytes powder in the water. You pound the water. The great thing about Arizona is that it really cools off in the shade. So it could be, you know, really, really hot in the sun. But as soon as you're back in the cart or under some trees, and I'm under a lot of trees, trust me. It cools down. And I don't mind the heat at all.

So, yeah. What's the favorite course you've played, Jackson? I really love the courses up in Dove Mountain. They've got the gallery.

The gallery has 36 and Dove Mountain has 27. They're both private, but you get to know some people. You can get on. Yeah, you can get out there.

But both those courses hosted the Accenture Match Play back in early 2000s. Yeah. They're really nice courses. So those are probably my favorite ones in Tucson. Oh, hey.

Did you play an, Ireland? Yeah, I was going to say, did you get out at all in Ireland during the wedding? Played once in Kilkenny at a place called Mount Juliet Estate. That's where my son got married. Beautiful, beautiful location. It was Jack Nicholas course. So it wasn't really an Irish golf course.

Yeah, yeah, funny. It was more of a North American-style golf course, but probably one of the hardest courses I've ever played in. The slope was like 150 or something. Yeah, Jesus Christ. It was just crazy. I put in my, I'm a 10 handicap, so I'm just kind of average. and I put my,

set up my game in my app and the app actually gave me 15 strokes. So it added five strokes to my handicap. That's how tough this course was. God, that's awesome. There we go. All right, now your final one, I'm going to switch this one up a little bit.

We're going to go guitarists. So we're going to go Jimmy Page, Jimmy Hendrix, and then I'm going to give a Canadian boy shout out and go Alex Lifeson from Rush. I mean, that's like asking Gordy how, I know. I know.

Connor McDavid, right? And then I'm going to cause too much controversy. All three of those guys are great. And you can throw in like Robbie Robertson from the band. Yep. Nice. I almost threw in Robbie. That's another good boy.

Eric Clapton, Joe Bonamassa. Yeah. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. So I'm not going to even give you the pleasure of ranking those guys. I'm not going to do it. Not going to do it because I'm going to a couple days from now. I mean, my Twitter's going to blow up. People from you listen to your show saying, I don't know what I'm talking about.

He thinks Clapton sucks. We call it a hat trick, Jack. You're allowed one hat trick so you can go three scores. So there you go. We got them covered. It's perfect. How often are you playing these days? Guitar or golf?

Guitar. Guitar, not enough. Not enough. Yeah, that's awesome. I think more people need to know that about you, that you absolutely shred and you are a guitar. Like, you're a lifer. It's unbelievable. No, I collect guitars more.

like pieces of art and I occasionally dabble on them but you'd have to it would hurt your ears if you listen to me I'm not very good that's a hey well listen we got more time on our hands now we'll get some more guitar and it's going to be awesome that sounds good it's phenomenal well jacks we've taken up enough of your time this has been such a blast for us man thank you so much for popping on before we let you go is there anything you want to shout out anything you want to plug the floor is yours uh just that ESPN fires up uh Tuesday night the 29th we get a triple header going. I'm going to be there. I don't know how much controversy will happen. Hopefully I get on a couple times. But we got three great games and they're starting, I think, at 6 p.m. Eastern and we've

got a full night of hockey. Follow the following week by the Frozen Frenzy, which is we've got we got another triple header for you. And we have every other game being shown almost like a, like a red zone in football and showing all the goals. We've got a dedicated channel for that. I believe it's Kevin Weeks and John Bootschikros are going to be doing that. So it's just a great net of hockey. And we're doing like 100 games, regular season. So I'll be on all of them. Watch ESPN and ESPN and ESPN plus and ABC and Hulu.

That's it. That's my shout out. That's perfect. You're the man, Jax. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks, guys. I enjoyed it. Jacks, dude, what a guy.

What a guy. And you know what, dude, when we were hanging out in Vegas end of last season. And we said, dude, are you allowed to come on? And he was like, yeah, sure, he just never asked. And I was like, good point. We did never ask. And I'm so glad because I knew he was going to be just a wealth of stories. Right.

You know, sometimes you come on and talk to a player about the career, whatever. Jacks, I was like, he's going to have, he's going to be in his bag. And he absolutely was. Unbelievable stuff. Yeah. I mean, the best part, the fact that Jacks is still, I mean, he's the guy. He's the guy we kick it to. He works for ESPN.

but he was still so down to snap it around and tell stories. That's what you love. We always talk about the retired guys are the best because they're like this, I got a wealth of stories, wealth of knowledge, I'll share it all. And he did that. He's also the fucking man.

He was the amazing. He was such a great hang in Vegas too. Me and him hit it off talking about guitars. Yeah, you were deep in the guitar line. Yeah, because he's a player. That was actually funny of the end of our interview.

He had to go, make an airport run. And that's right when we got into guitar stuff. And I could feel all of us be like, we should keep talking. I know. I was like, you gotta go, you gotta go. Yeah.

But that was sick. It is amazing. All right, let's kick it to another ad read and then get on back. Folks, when it comes to having a few pops, at the end of the day, there is truly only one drink for me these days. And it is surfside. I am dead serious. It is actually the only thing I like. And you know why?

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It is the best drink for hockey. It is the best drink in the world. Must be 21 or older to enjoy. Please enjoy them responsibly. It's time to get into a little bit of fraud watch and top hits. We always like starting with fraud watch, right? Yes, sir. Are any of you guys particularly fired up about either of yours?

I'm pretty fired up about my top hits. Okay, cool. I'm always fired up, baby. Yeah, yeah, I was born fired up. I'm angry. Oh, wow. I don't like that. Mad as hell.

No. I'm not going to take it anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't care what order we start. Why don't you start out then? My fraud watch is Apple TV remotes. Oh, dude. I could not agree more.

The floor is yours, but I am very excited about this. We can have a discussion. I'm so on your side. It's kind of like the degradation of remote controls in general over the years. Like, I went from having. physical buttons, one button per function, and a remote big enough to fucking slap somebody over the head with. Now this tiny little thin shit stick with the slightest icy fucking thing.

If you want to pause a video and go back 15 seconds, you're like, oh, now I'm a half an hour back on this movie. And I can't find my way back because the thing slips sliding everywhere. You lose the fucking thing in the couch and it's impossible to find. And not even just the Apple TV remotes, but like most new remotes are like tiny and all the buttons are weird and there's a weird little toggle. It's like you got to be like an expert. It's like it's like a little remote clit. You got to be so delicate with it.

You just got to. Anyway, I don't like Apple TV remotes. Dude, do you remember when we used to get beaten with remote controls? Shout out guys born in the 80s. I'm not actually maybe early 90s kids can relate to that. Our parents used to beat the shit out of us with TV. Christ. It was awesome. Like it was, I feel like it was remote.

Coat hanger was a big one. Wow. Rolled up magazine was a big one. But that was like the big like, if you're being a shithead. And when I say beat the shit, I mean like, when we're being dipsets and we deserve it, it was like a classic like whack, whack on the back. Yeah. Wack on the ass or like the back of the head.

And you're like, sorry. I'll stop being shit. Those double A batteries added some weight. Yeah. Oh yeah. Do you have heavy takes on this? Dude, the biggest bag of shit. that's ever existed as an Apple TV remote.

Dude, I can't believe you just said that. Because aren't the new ones, like, it really is just a trackpad that kind of clicks? Because the old ones had the circle around where you could do the like up, down, left, right? I'm pretty sure it's just like a track pad. Yeah, I think it is.

I never get when, and certainly when Netflix comes out, we all get imprinted on Netflix. I understand that, so I'm not necessarily their user interface was correct, but it is correct now because that's what we've grown up on. And that I never got when streamers start, I don't know if

it's better, but when Hulu came out, the user interface is horrific, trying to navigate stuff. Like, make it look like Netflix. You know, there's a search thing over on the left. Otherwise, like, here's the fucking shows on. Right. Why are you trying to be different just because we can't look like Netflix? And I'm like, yes, you can. That's the only thing I know

how to work. Yeah. And dude, that's what Apple TV remotes did. I know there's a Apple TV, Firestick, Roku, whatever. We had, I had Roku's, so whatever. The Roku remote is just is small, has all the voice shit, you can plug a headphone in, it has a beeper on the app where you go,

where's the remote, and it beeps. And there are buttons, Evan. And there's a simple fucking Nintendo DS Plus to move around. I am so glad you got here. Because I was going to take this opportunity to get a new sponsor, and I mean this. Roku, listen up. Roku is the greatest thing in the entire world.

It's the goat, dude. Roku makes, I know Amazon does this too, but like Roku makes Roku TV. which are, guys, if you need like a quick TV for an office or like a bedroom that you're not doing crate, you're not like gaming, I mean, you can still do it on those. It is the greatest thing in the world and that remote is the greatest thing in the world. It's the perfect size, perfect weight, and yes, it literally has back home, okay, up down, left, right, pause, play, fast forward, rewind, and some of the four autos at the bottom.

Some of the autos at the bottom, the volume is on the side. It has a talk to, it is the greatest remote of all time and Roku is the greatest platform and interface of all time. Everything is right there. It's so fucking awesome. I love Roku so fucking much. Roku, if you need anyone to pump your tires, give us a fucking call.

Send us TVs and it's the only platform with a city. Roku City. Amazon's Firesticks can't even cast off Apple phones. If I'm trying to be like, oh, I'm put it up here, a fire stick is like, you have to download an app. I'm like, are you high? Yeah, no, it's horrible. horrible.

Roku is so goaded and yeah. We've talked about Roku City on this program. We did. We talked about Roku City because we couldn't find the Ninja Turtle. He's still gone. I swear to God he's not there. I think they have to be in there somewhere. Dude,

the Apple fucking remote, dude, is, first of all, when you're even trying to pick the app on its big screen, it's like, you know what Top Gunn

when he's like trying to get the fucking missile lock? Like that's me on that's trying to open HBO Max. I'm like, come on. I almost have tone. I almost have tone. And then dude, you're so right about

to rewind. If I try to rewind something, like Ted Lasso comes on. Like I hit back and it's like and like it shows on. Yeah, sometimes it is like, then you're like, the other thing too is like what I don't like is even the physical buttons, the few physical buttons on there, over time will get like gunky and you can't press it anymore because they're so close to the surface of the remote that like if anything happens, like if you happen to have a kid around like gets like gummy shit or sticky shit in there, you're fucked. Bro. You're so screwed. worst product Apple, and then do their entire business model, starting with the iPod, was built on like, this is how we want to click.

User interface. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Apple Remote is by a thousand miles, the worst product that that company has ever made. I agree. Horrific. Incredible one. I don't even want to go anymore. Evan, I just want that to be mine, too.

That's a phenomenal one. Fucking amazing. Is it my turn? Yeah. Okay. This sucks now. I was like, I was like, do you want to approve? I don't even want to do this.

We don't even have to linger. No, no, it's okay. We're not even going to linger, but mine is, um, really. razors. And I really find it annoying that you get a razor to shave your face. And it's like,

this is like, you know, an S&L joke, but it's like three blades, four blades, five, where they scrape your skin up. Yeah,

and it's like, okay, all these fucking, like, what do you, how many blades do we need? I just want it to not hurt, you know?

Yeah. And then they're expensive. And maybe they should be because I'm slicing my face open, but maybe they should be, but they're expensive. And then they just dull so quickly. You know,

they have the strip where it's like, after three shades, it's like, already gone and then it sucks when it's dull. Like legitimately, if you're trying to shave, I'm like, ow, dude. So really my biggest knock, because I will admit the fresh one, the freshie is gas. When I first get a brand new, nice Gillette fuse or whatever the fuck, it's awesome. But they just dull, they dull faster than they should. I don't believe, put it this way. I don't believe that we don't have Razor Tech better, but they're intentionally letting us have the ones

that dull, so we have to buy them. Yeah, go ahead. Well, I'm going to say this. You guys God is it good to be me. I use the same razor for like five months. I just, I can't grow a beard. Right. So like I'm, I'm getting the smoothest shave ever for so long. I think it's probably due to like, you both have great beards. You know, like I just, I can't relate to this issue. But I feel bad for you. I'm, I'm like Robin Williams on steroids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I did a few years ago, because I was using disposable razors. And in my, effort in my late 20s, early 30s to like, you know, be more of a hippie and be like, I'm going to try to use things that are more regenerative and not like throwing plastic away. That is the least fucking surprising thing I've ever heard in my life that you went through that

phase. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm still doing it. But even though I do drive a 78 Nova that fucking spews horrible gas into the air. But I have multitudes. The, but I did. I'm a complex man. I did get what's called a safety razor and also a straight razor, which a straight razor is really hard to use. But a safety razor is basically like an old razor, like old-timey like from the 50s where it's like a metal bar that screws into like the top and the bottom. Oh yeah, yeah. And then you just have to buy the razor replacements, which are pretty cheap. And then you just you put a razor in it, you screw it on, you use it like for a day or two. Then you can flip the razor around because then because it's only one side hitting your face.

you can slice the fuck out of yourself really bad with it. I have cut my face horribly. So you have to be super careful. There's a learning curve. But it's a little cheaper. Yeah, you leave like a fucking long like. It's like always around the jaw. Dude, yeah.

It's like, yeah. Yeah, right here or like this part right here. Yeah. Dude, a question for you. Why? Do you hate having a beard? Because I'd like to see you do like a little half beard for a bit. I have gone through phases usually in the winter I'll grow one

I usually grow one with the intention of having a mustache because I find them to be fun yeah even though I think my wife hates it I was gonna say does Megan hate this but yeah she she's not a fan of the beard also as an actor it's easier to get roles like all of my headshots have no beard I'd have to get all new head shots you gotta commit to that look and couldn't you go in with the beard and be like I'll shave you can and I've done that But it's just you're going to book more roles if you have a clean face. Okay.

For whatever reason. How often do I shave? If I'm busy, I skip, but I try once a day. If I have a date that night, I'll do that. Dude, I didn't realize more than once a day was on the table. It is. I just thought you bet like how many days go out before you shave and you were within one day. I can go by like two or three days without shaving and still starts to itch down here.

But if I have like a date that night, like with, if me and my wife are going to do something and I'm like sex is on the table, I'll shave in the morning and then like before dinner, I'll shave again like John Hamm used to do on fucking Madman because you could see his face visibly

as the shoot would go on. He would have that like five o'clock shadow. Yeah. He's got a heavy beard. Yeah. That's incredible. And a heavy something else too. Put it. Oh yeah. He's got a heavy cock. John, we've got to get you on the show. We can talk about your penis. Yeah, blues. He's a blues fan.

I am sorry, Megan. I am formally requesting you to do a beer. I'll tell you what. Not a big beard. I want to see you with a half beard. No, I loved it. I grew a goatee for a movie we did a couple years ago, and that was funny. The other problem I have is that for whatever reason, my fish color comes in, like, different colors.

Like, it's blonder up here and darker here and starts to get gray. So, like, sometimes I try to shape, or what am I looking for? You can get it. Diet. Yeah. But I will do it for the playoffs if the penguins get in. Yeah. Okay.

I will grow a playoff. Okay. I love it. Mine would be pretty quick, too. My fraud watch sneaking a little footy talk here is Manchester City. Oh, okay. Literally frauds. They're literally frauds.

I think the FIFA and the Premier League drama that happens all the fucking time, like Everton got clapped. We, Chelsea, have been clapped for bullshit. Usually I'm like, can we please stop? All that happens is like a dumb slap on the wrist where it's like, you have ever been. a transfer ban on your youth academy for a season and it's like great whatever when the report that manchester city was found guilty of all 115 charges i first rolled my eyes because i was like 115 how many of these are like semantics charges you know and i was like all this is going to be is a transfer yeah it's going to be a transfer ban and whatever whatever whatever but then this week that

report came out that they have lied about 830 million pounds of like sponsor sponsor deal and shit. And I'm like, wait a minute. This is ridiculous. And I am like, I genuinely do not see a world where you do not relegate this team. Like, you have to. It'd be so funny. And we're only four or five games into the season. So I don't think you can do it this. Like, it's not like you're going to go, you're set down, West Ham, you're back up. No, no, you go, you play the season, but whatever happens. Well, no, what I think they do is straight up, you have to dock them like 50 points. and so they will be they will be relegated by the end of it.

And you have to do it for like two years, I think. Like I genuinely think they need to be docked like 50 plus points this year and then next year 50 plus points as well. Because like this is insane. And I'm telling you this. If Manchester City is not sent down to the championship next season, then we're done here. You set a precedent of nothing matters. You can do anything and you won't be penalized. I don't care how big the club is.

I don't care how big of players they have, but they have to go down. It would be... I will revolt. Write a bolt to see how many goals Holland scores in the championship. It would be unbelievable. He might score 70 goals. But I think if they get sent down, he is gonzo.

He's got to do one year. No. Just give me one year in the championship. That would be such a shame, Erling Holland in his prime playing in the championship. Well, you get so many records. It would be sick. But you don't care about those records?

I do. Sure you do. But Manchester City, you're frauds. You're frauds. And what's nuts, dude, is this... Manchester City is not a big club. They are a good club, but Manchester City fans, most of you are also on fraud watch

because you were like, I'm going to be a Man City fan. They are not a big club. They're a successful club, no doubt. But it is now come to light that they are the biggest cheaters in the history of the Premier League. So I'm like, oh, you were clowns. And also, shout out us.

You were cheating and we beat you in the Champions League. Suck me. Suck me. But also, there is no world where this team does not get sent down because otherwise, nothing is illegal then. But that might happen. I just don't think it's possible. This is too big of a deal. Yeah, yeah.

Going into top hits, I'm really excited about this one. My top hit is team-specific songs and anthems. Oh, great. Yes. Okay. So, shout out my buddy, Peter Olin, Swedish guys. huge Ruggla fan. Also, shout out the in-laws, big Ruggla fans.

Peter, literally, it was his bachelor party this past weekend, and they went to a Ruggla game, and Peter went on the ice in a later hosen, which was awesome. Also sick. And sang the Ruggla anthem that Peter wrote. Oh, whoa. Peter wrote the anthem. It's called Fervot R.BK, which means 4RBK,

Ruggla Bandy Club. He wrote the anthem, and it is, like, for years, it has been Ruggla's anthem, and they sing it every game. And it is fucking electric. That's awesome. European clubs, like football clubs, hockey clubs have these. I think it's crazy that we don't have them. I know teams have, like, songs.

Which I also like. I think they're, like, goal songs. You mean, like the goalhorn song? Yeah, like Chelsea Daggers are really popular one. Sweet Caroline at Red Sox Games. that's also awesome. But I'm saying in the U.S. and Canada, we got to start having people write specific songs for the team

that all the fans know and you sing before the game. You mean like the Super Bowl shuffle that the Bears did in the 80s? There you go. You can do music videos. Well, they did have like the Steelers have their own song. It's here we go. Steelers, here we go. Steelers are going to the Super Bowl.

It's a terrible song. because it's from like 1982 or something. I kind of like that. Yeah. No, it's great. I would rather that, like remember those clowns, those senators fans who made those like remix songs. Yeah.

And it literally ruined the Ottawa senators. It got them bounced from the playoffs because of those guys. I don't want some shitty like rock song that a garage, here we go again, me shitting on like garage band and like bar bands. That's not what I'm doing here. I don't want like a rock song. I want anthem.

songs. Like, truly songs that you see in Europe that are team-specific anthems, they're so fucking sick and there's nothing cooler than the fandom you feel when all the fans know the song and they sing it together before the game. So,

U.S. teams start writing anthems and sing them before the game. They're so fucking cool. Couldn't be more in. But also, shout out Peter. Massive shout out, Peter. That's the real story here. That's so chic. Truly legend. And also, the song is sick. I can't wait to hear it. It's fucking badass. My top hit is, I'm phrasing it like this, and I'll explain, because it's kind of a wider scope thing, but my top hit is sharing dessert.

And here was my theory. And also, it's kind of just dessert in general, but here's my theory. And also, how sick is it that dessert has two S's? And then you get to do the, like, which one is desert and which one is dessert? I know. Desert has two S is because you want more of it. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's an incredible. The English. language is a joke many times, but in that specific case, that is a great way to remember that. Great job. Yeah. Great way. The, I feel as though as a kid, you dessert is gas, and you're like, I want dessert. And then you become older and you're a little bit more health conscious and you're like, I can't be having, they can't be having dessert all the time.

Yeah. In fact, I think there was a stretch in everyone's life where you are out to dinner and then they go, do you want to see the dessert menu? And you go, no. And it's almost like, obviously not. I don't want dessert. I'm like a dude in my 20s and I'm not having desserts. But then you get, and maybe this is kind of getting relationships, but you can do it with your boys, which is my argument here. Yeah. But then you kind of get to a point where you go, yeah, let's see the dessert menu

because we can, we'll all just order one. Because it used to be, the desserts, maybe this, maybe the times have changed, but it used to be you all everyone gets a dessert. But now just get one dessert and everyone have a little bit is money. Because I'm like, thank you. I actually just wanted two bites of that. And this was perfect. and now I feel like that's pretty common

that I'm out to dinner. Yeah, I was about to say I can't remember the last time I saw everyone order their individual dessert. Never did. That's crazy. Ever. And now I'm actually, it's not all the time, but I am more often than not

when I'm out to dinner, the crew is getting one dessert versus like, no, we don't have time a little full or whatever. And it's great because I get, I scratch the itch without being like, I had an entire molten lava cake. Dude, Martin loves dessert. Yeah. And whenever we're out to dinner, Martin orders, he's like always so quick

to be like this. gonna get all these and Martin is shredded. I know. And sometimes we'll order dessert and desserts will come. And I'm like, I don't really, I don't have that big of a sweet tooth as you know. And I'm like, I don't really want that. But then these beautiful desserts come and I'm like, I'll try. Got to try it. And every now and then I look over and Martin's not eating it, I'm like, get a fucking spoon. Like, you ordered these, you snake. It's so funny. That's why the share is great because you don't, you just have a bite or two. Yeah, yeah. And your money. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And remember I did that ran about how nobody has birthday cake at parties. That happened at my wife's

birthday on Saturday. I spent $100 in this custom cake. And like, you bring out the birthday cake and everybody's like, cool. And then like three people have a bite and I'm like, great. There's a 90 dollars left of this cake. Yes. And we're not going to eat it. No, yeah. We ended up freezing a lot of it, which is great. Nice. But yeah, we last time, usually me and my wife get a dessert, but this time, this last time around we got, um, have you ever had like an after dinner drink? Oh yeah, like a fernette? Incredibly. She got Amarado. It was great. Yeah. I'm on board with too. Yeah. Crammed a month. Yeah, you can do a little drink your dessert.

Yeah. All right. A little de jistif. Oh, okay. Is it my term for top hit? Yep. All right. I was born in January.

I'm a winter baby. Let's go. January 26th, share that with Wayne Gretzky. Great hockey birthday. Wow, sick. Great hockey birthday. So winter is coming. And my top hit is winter.

I just, especially in L.A., everybody's all high on summer. Oh, we're going to go to the beach and we're going to, And fall, dude, people fall get such a stroke. No, well, fall, like, dude, it's, it's going to be 95 degrees in October next week. I'm, I don't know that fall has a chance anymore. But I just fucking love the idea of, like, getting to wear a jacket, not boiling hot alive in my car on the way here. You know, while everybody was out partying at the beach, I was at home fucking watching movies. Now I get to, now it gets to be my turn.

And I like, give me a dive bar in Chicago with like old grizzled men who like literally have to warm up in a bar before the fucking Lumal Nautis like freezes in their colon. You know what I mean? Like, like give me, give me fucking hockey on an actual pond outside. Give me hockey games. Give me fucking Christmas. Give me all the winter shit. Let me gain some weight so I can wear a jacket and fucking hide it and just chill out. Go to bed early when it's dark.

Get all cozy by the fireplace. I do have a fireplace in my house, thank God. But just give me winter. I know everybody's really high on summer. Fuck summer. Let's go winter. Dude, I'm here for the winter love. Can't believe me too.

The skipover of fall is crazy. Well, he's right about L.A. fall. Yeah. I just meant people, people love. Fall is the trendiest thing to love. Trust me. And what's your favorite season? They're like, fall.

I love fall, but I haven't seen fall in 16 years. Yeah. Because it goes, it goes 80 degrees, 95 degrees, crash into winter. and like the middle of December it's finally kind of chilly up here. Fall is gone, dude. Evan, we are flying to Boston tonight. Yeah. I spent an hour this morning.

Oh, were you excited for the clothes? I spent an hour. I'm not kidding. Going through my Instagram saved files of all of my like favorite outfit, like designs that I flag. And I laid out, they're on my bed right now. All of the outfits I'm going to wear every day because we are going back to fall. Of course. And I am so fucking.

I'm sure as a fashion guy, you appreciate that in the fall and winter, you get to fucking actually put on some clothes. Dude, yes. Layering is so gas. A scarf? Are you kidding? I love a fall jacket. Yeah. A fall jacket looks so clean.

Hell yeah. It's amazing. Great pick. Great pick, Ev. Okay, let's close out this ep with a nice blind ranking. And we're doing, are we doing the suggested one you said? Yeah. We are.

Laura. Do you still have the text? That was Laura. Fucking writes. Do you have the text? I have it. It said it's cheap beers. Yeah, yeah.

Do you know who sent it is what I'm saying? Oh, do you want me to look at what you sent? Yeah, yeah, yeah, check it out. Because I'm pretty sure it was Laura, but I screenchotted it quite quickly. Let's take a look. Laura, yep. Yep. Amazing.

Okay, Laura, you got your wish. Thank you for the comment. And we're doing bad beers because we were taught for the people who didn't hear last step. We were with Marty and we were doing the bushlight. He likes a key stuff. I like a bush. So now we're going to get to the bottom of it. So we're doing blind ranking bad beers,

but these are beers we like. Yeah, one is my favorite bad beer. So realistically, these are going to be... It's like best of the worst. Yeah, best of the worst. Okay, okay. According to society. Okay.

Okay, here we go. I'm going to start with what we were talking about, Bush Light. And see, Dan, this is my one, and you're going to have to work hard to talk me off of this. That's your one? Yes, Dan. Well, I'm actually really curious what's going to come up here

because there's going to be ones that I'm going to be like, that's not a bad beer. Yeah, you're right. Maybe I should leave a window of... I like two. Oh, but you like it, though. Oh, I like Bushlight. Okay, yeah, the... Bushlight is not...

I would almost... It's so close to the next... It's so close to the next tier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Hell yeah, Bushlight. What's funny is, like, I see people in these dive bars that Evan is waxing poetic about

that have... People are ordering Bushlight. Yeah. And I'm like... These other ones I'm expecting, I don't order. Bushlight is also up their game in branding. Yeah. And, like, a Bushlight doesn't...

doesn't look as gnarly anymore. Some of these beers, like, their cans look gnarly, and I'm like, whoa. Okay, Bushlight 2. Let's go Bushlight 2. Okay. Next one is Milwaukee's best. Horrific. Yeah.

One of the worst things I've ever had the displeasure of putting in my mouth, and that list is extensive. Don't tell us. Dear God. Horrible beer, Dan. Horrible. Five or four? I will go, he could pull something out of his ass that should be five.

but I will sleep soundly at night if Milwaukee's. Well, weirdly, Milwaukee's best taste like it just slipped it out of my ass. Also true. It is but water. I'm going five. They call it the beast. Yeah, it's but water. You want five?

Sure. Okay. Five. All right. Bet you don't see this one coming. Rolling Rock. Don't hate Rolling Rock. Ooh.

You know what, though? There was actually a period in my life in college where I drank Rolling Rock. I remember that. Because it was like. A horse is. A horse is. We used to go... He's winking at you.

We used to go to Newton Upper Falls, and we'd all get a 12 pack of bottled beers. But we weren't getting super nice beers, and we also weren't going bottom of the barrel. And I was like, rolling it was cool, green bottle. And then I eventually got to the point in my life where I was drinking it. And I was like, this is fucking disgusting. I had one that's mine of that, but I'll save it in case it's said. But I have such a similar experience where I would buy bottles of this random ass beer and be like, this beer's good. Yeah.

I was like, what am I doing? It's not good. So as a Pittsburgh guy, they used to make Rolling Rock in La Trobe, Pennsylvania, and it was better. And then the company was bought and sold and moved to Missouri. And it became like, I think it became part of, it must have became part of the Bush thing. And they just kind of like shelved it and we're like, we're not going to put any effort into this anymore. So it got way worse. But I used to get it too because you could get it at Rite Aid for like $8 for a 12 pack.

It was cheap. It was cheap. I'm going to go three because I actually think Rolling Rock, the green bottles. it's a good label. There's a horse on there. And Rolling Rock is a good name. Yeah, sick. So I'm going to go three.

Three, I'm in. Yeah, three for the branding. It's good branding. Wait, hold on. Do we go two or one with Bush? Two. That was a mistake. I know.

All right. This next one is Keystone Light. Fuck. Actually, I'm okay with the four, though, because Milwaukee's horrible. This, we have fucked ourselves. Bush Light was one. I know, but let's go Keystone Four,

because I don't, I know, I love you, Marty, but I don't want to put that one. one. Yeah. Oh yeah, he loves Keystone. Yeah, he does. That's his favorite. I haven't had a keystone that's college. Same, dude. I, and here's the thing. No. And I'll never, I won't never have it again. I've had my last keystone. I assure you that. No offense. I, I pray to God I never have a Keystone again. We used to go, we used to go to this liquor store called Johnny Gainims and Savannah. That was the only liquor store that would sell to underage people. And I used to come up with, I was the oldest

looking guy. Yeah. So I would come up with my fake ID that I made. And I would get like, 30 packs of Keystone. Just like, yes, just me after my busy day at work, going home to my family with 8 30 racks of Keystone. Nothing weird here. My kids are a nightmare, man. Yeah, I just sit down. I was there every week.

Jesus Christ. Not long ago, we were at a beer league game, and one of our fucking teammates brought Keystone, and I'm a bitch, and I don't often drink beers after the games. But it was a game where I was like, you know what? I want a beer. Yeah. And he pulled out the cooler, and there were Keystones. there and I he didn't see me but I was staring daggers at him being like this you

fucking peasant did you just bring ke stones to this game uh let's go for okay the number one bad beer this is gonna be awful paps blue ribbon oh you know what dude I'm thrilled right I'm absolutely thrilled people forget that that's a bad beer because it's very hipster but it's fucking a bad beer but it is a bad beer and I actually think it is so overhyped because of that because everyone everyone is trying to argue that it's even it's it's up in the upper to echelon, but it is, it is a good bad beer. Yes, it is. If it just stayed in its lane, it is a good bad beer. It's the king of the bad beers.

I think that's a pretty good list. I think that's a pretty solid. Like, I would grab a bush over a PBR, but I got nothing wrong with PBR. Like, PBR is classic. Yeah. Isn't there like a funny, I think like Nike was originally called like PBR? Nike was originally called Blue Ribbon Sports. Blue Ribbon Sports because the guy loved PBR. I love PBR so much. Yeah.

That's so weird. That's fucking iconic. Yeah. And like you see a PBR can and you're like, yeah. Hell yeah. That's PBO. Yeah. Extremely hipster.

Extremely cool list. I don't hate that at all. Yeah. Love it. Thrill. All right. Great list, boys. Great episode, folks.

Hope you enjoyed everything. Hey, as Evan said, it's getting winter, fall. We've got some great merch on the store. Unbelievable hoodies. Go grab one of those. We love you guys. Let's enjoy this weekend of hockey. Make sure you tune in to sci-fi.

section that is out right now. And also, tune in on Friday. We're going to get some great picks for you this weekend. We're giving you the best bets all season long. It's going to be great. Until we see you next time, skate hard.