Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Achmad Alkatiri: What It Takes to Build a Global Brand

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

Apa sebenarnya yang menghalangi Indonesia untuk bisa punya brand yang dikenal seantero dunia seperti Nike, Apple dan Unilever? Pendiri Hypefast dan mantan Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) Lazada Indonesia, Achmad Alkatiri bicara pengalamannya berinteraksi dengan ratusan pendiri brand lokal. Hypefast adalah pelopor dan house of e-commerce native brands di kawasan Asia Tenggara. Hypefast berpartner dengan jenama-jenama lokal terbaik di Asia Tenggara untuk meningkatkan skala produksi dan penjualan dengan bantuan investasi, tim yang berpengalaman, dan ekosistem serta infrastruktur ritel yang kuat. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #MadAlkatiri ----------------------- Saksikan dalam versi video: https://endgame.id/afutami Pre-Order merchandise resmi Endgame: https://wa.me/6282133365263 Info pendaftaran program Master of Public Policy di SGPP Indonesia: admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504

is actually easier to build crazy, company, you know, compared to company that's like, like, maybe, yeah, you know, because, because, because, to be able to actually attract the craziest people in the market, you will need the craziest challenge.

And, and, when you actually got those crazy, or you hiring, you know, you got that craziest people, they stick together. together. They enjoy the challenge right. This is NG. Hello, I'm a lot of people, I'm

I'm going to contribute to indonesia that's more in 2004-5. It's why from where? Maybe one of one of the one of my idea Belecholice. Now, that's the pointinging is definitely also policy.

And to deliver it, Tadilogy, buttoean, and butu policy. Now, the problem around analysis of the publicinginging us to

make actualization solutions for other permasalahan, apalaguergian, not only in the government, but also in the world business,

and non-profit. The President B. Bancimun, President of Singapore Lishin Lung, and journalist Rachel Meadow, all of the luson Jurusan Public Policy.

SGBP Indonesia, School Public Policy in Indonesia with Bandsa Pongatheas, English, is being bareda, for batch

the new. For detail, on the program and and how to or just consultations about the runesan career to the time. Hubbuky,

SKPP Indonesia through link that's in description. Now back to the show. Hello, we're coming Ahmad al-Katiri, founder of Hartfest.

Matt, Thank you, can't come Hello. It's really my honor. I think this is if you're notup notan,

not yoke up Don't you not yet, but if it's about 280 million. Amen. I'maise. From a little, from a while 9, 26 April, yeah? Taurus. Taurus. Perciah with horoscope?

Maybe 10 years ago. Okay, so, sir can, still. Thank you, Pagita. I think if I'm, if I'm just the disclaimer of front, it's a lot of dramas. My life is like, you know, is a lot of drama. like, like, like, like, you know, is the roller-casses. Um, so, maybe, maybe I'm very proud of, like, you know,

being putra-as-li Maluku. And I was born there, raised there, and then, like, come again, you know, you know, and I think the part of, like, you know, drama that, started when, um, I'mon, I was a lot of people, I was born in the other than I'm just a bigas-bias-bysa. So I think my mom and dad, they're not even finished their high school, actually.

Keturunan Arab, yeah? Correct. They're not, not lullos E-Sema. My dad was the contractors. So he, you know, he'd make a business and stuff, my mom is like, stay at home. And then, of course, 2009, of course, in Malakus,

and it was quite big conflict, like that. And I think it's where, what, yeah, the... the... ...kehidupean, it's going to, about, really, the time, when we're talking about, what's the answer that we usually give,

is to actually leave another day, like, It was super scary, right? We live in the constant fear. I don't know, like, how do you familiar with the conflict Ambon or Malakub? We've got to make that. Exactly, right. It's like, really, we're talking about

parang parangans, you know, and, you know, dekechers, until, like, you know, you actually live in the refugee camp, and, you lose your home, you need to actually live in the, you know, leave your home. And in moments, like, like,

there's time, like, like, made very traumatized. If you're, the area you're in the air-plank, like, that, that's, that's the light of the wind, it's really, that's right, right?

And that's, that's, that's really, really, right? And that is, where you're, you know, very, you know, like, you know, like, like, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, the next step to do is,

really, really, learn, to, you know, to, like, you know, percumple, right? And the worst case, scenario is that, if, you know, the enemy lines, you know, bridge, then it's, uh, is, uh, is the end game,

right? It's done, like, like, you know, it's, like, you know, it's, um, the... the... the...theirousan bertharra in Ambon, it was really, what yeah, amazing experience. I mean, if you ask me, like, to like, more do you know, of course, not. But I feel like it's really a great experience for me for, um, for like, to, like, to shape the mentalities. Because, actually, the mentality that's mentality,

that's a fighter's mentality, right? Because we literally need to actually, like, you know, be, uh, what, yeah, um, well, fightful. fight for our life. And not just that, it's also affecting the quality of life, the educations. You know, when I went to the school, like that we never know whether we can come home or not. Because there are moments where, you know, the time in school, then like, you know,

the noise the electric, then you need to, like, you know, rushing home, and then, like, you know, the sound bomb, there, the sound of the power, there, the sound of the world, and you would never know whether that you will actually, you know, reaching your home or not, like that's like that. The quality of education was also really crazy back in my time in Amun. Because I think back in the days, curriculum that, what, what, yeah,

that were like one year later, right? So, one time then, then we're talking about, like, you know, one classroom, that's, you know, one-classroom, that's one mea has two, we're four, so the quality of education also like, was also a very, what, what, name,

ah, aga, like that, like, that I said, is, even despite at that time, everyone, you know, you know, in your inner circle, family, you know, you were saying, they were saying that,

Matt, like, this is your, this is, you know, this will be your life, like, just that's not justa-cita, not justa-cita-cita to work out of it, this would be it, you know. Because that's the mindset of it at that time, right? Cue that I feel like,

it's justro that, like, to actually prove that even, you know, we're in that, you know, the bottom of life situations, you still, like, have a chance to like, like, like, like, like, like, what, like, yeah, well, at least do better, or, like, you know, have a better life, like,

like, you know, and then, like, we need, actually move houses, like, you know, couple of times, because of course. And, and, it's not just to be the drama. So, my, my dad got stroke, can, in 2001, yeah, well, actually, 2005. So, 2005.

So we're talking about the other than my dad's company. And then what happened is that we didn't have insurance. So like, we need to actually, my mom needed to sell her properties, a must, mienc, and, and, and, like, to, like, really pay the medical bills, right, at that time. And, of course, because, because she stroke, he's the above tubu-notes-lump, lumpo, he's like that's like that's like that's like,

and then, and then, I'm gonna'n't really step up, and what he'll do, uh, if we're, uh, if, uh, in the area, uh, there's, there, too, many people, people, people, uh,

yeah, he's, you dole, yeah, that's what she did, like, like, to actually, like, um, what, um, um, uh,

um, um, the chances, like, you know, of Kemp, 2006, because Ambon, Malokok, and I'll see Australia, and Ambon has a very close relationship. There was, there, there was a time to be student exchange, like that in Australia.

And that, same way, not even like, English. Not even like, I mean, not even like, I mean, not even if I'm,

but if I don't know, if you're, English, you're very proficient, or very like watching a lot of movies. It's like, not important, for people to get that transition you from nowhere in Ambon, no way, no exposure, to the language English.

For sure. At that, I was, for me, I was taking risk, I was thinking, if, if you know, you want to do something, or you want to be better, like, that, like, You have you have that I'm like that I did that is, I don't have, I don't know, I don't know, because I'm like, you know, BASA English and, and, like,

this is an once in life opportunity, you know, for me to actually see the life outside I'm born, you know, outside like this, what, what, what, you know, what, you don't know, right? I didn't have any benchmark or comparisons to data in fact. I was like, okay, this is an amazing opportunity I should take it. Right?

If you can't use sign language or whatever it is, then I'll figure something out, right. Um, but that time was, it was super, it was super challenging, right? Because like this, I'm the only child, right? I'm the only child, right? My dad at that time was still in hospitals, right? And my mom, like, what, name,

failing to the feelings of leaving them. Wow. Guilt trip. Exactly, right? And it's very difficult, right? At that time, I feel like this is an opportunity that just, you know, make your life different. And I think that's what I think that's actually

my mom, who's just that my mom, who said, this is it. I think I'm very, like, you know, I'm grateful that I, was born in the family that they are the definitive person, like, you know, definitions of people pleaser. So they put like, you know, people's,

even families, and their own people, even families, they have, like, this is something that you cannot, not be able to, once in a lifetime. Yeah, exactly. So then I flew to Outsis and, you know, did there,

in Australia? Darwin. Okay. It was like, you know, Melvins, it was Darwin, right? But then, you know, it's still okay. And even like, you know, um, it's, the first time, um, what I mean, I'm saying, I'm saying, I didn't even know, like, like,

the Ambonne, if you had a semester, computer, it back in the days, and we're talking about 2006 already, yeah, yeah. that's a lot in library. It's a barang mewaiwaiiwa. So you can't like, you just like have one hour every week. It's been unlocked at a lot of the time Teiq,

like, you didn't have access or whatsoever. When you were in Aalci, it was like, oh wow, you know. It's amazing. Access 247. Exactly. And it's a lot of technologies, industry that's like nauged, like the other like, like, you know, these citizens, journalists,

like, you know, journalism, with technology and, and, like, then those, like, really becoming eye-openerce. This is what? This isma, class-belled, yeah, that's the class-one. Okay, class two. Yeah, class two, ESAMA, correct. So I was there for, yes, I think it was seven, eight months,

uh, in there. That, that kind of, like, to make up to make up because you didn't have any benchmark before. What you know is, oh, life education is like this. You sit with 100 people, like that. And what you learn is, yeah, that, and that's all, and when you're there,

it's really, to create a benchmark. And I was so, like, grateful with that experience. I think, what was, okay, I know what to do next. I really like this digital, you know, technologies, industries, you know. Then I feel like this could be really amazing features for me. So I was back in the Indo, I got two opportunities. One is,

I'm Bonn, Makasar, so I got like a full scholarship for, um, to doctor in UNHAS, or scholarship for the telecom universities, like, technology, management and business, right? And of course, you're familiar with how conventional families Indonesian Timur

I'm thinking about, because in the people of the Indian-Isha Timor, I mean, I'm not my family, I mean, hopefully it's all for, doctor it's like right away to upgrade your family status. Yeah, very much. It's like, oh, wow, doctor, he's been a lot of,

now, now, but I just, you know, I didn't feel that it was my passion. And my options are, So I needed like, you know, quick cash, quick money. At that time, I need to actually earn some money. And I know that being a doctor's could be, school's going to be, schoolan-pang-bagnan, like that.

And, what, the other options, like this, like this is the, you know, technology industry, business management of it. Then I went to Telcom, universities. So, yeah, it was,

I was in 2007. And of course, right, you know, it was a different life experience. Because, I mean, unfortunately, I don't say it's everyone. But, what, what, the thinking of, like, you know, people, when you saw, oh, this is a Ambon or the Timoran, still like, ah, who's, he, this, and stuff like that. Yeah, and stuff like that.

But it's like, you know, then give you an underdog man. underdog mindset, which is that you want to prove them wrong. So then, what I was, I was quite lucky to, like, you know, to be graduates at the top of my class. And, and, and, like, that, like, that's going to work in Jakarta. And in the life in Bandung, also, it was...

It was something that, like, every time, to make me really grateful of what I am today, like that. But, you're getting baysiswe. Are you a special biasisle. So, right? So, pa. Wow. Well, my cousin's in Bandung, we're talking about 2007, 2008, yeah.

Coasan my own, so. Wow. I don't know if, like, you can picture it. Luxe very, that. Three million, not a month, yeah, three years is a year, yeah. And so? So, or? Wow.

There, there, moment, ma'amon, where the night's from the night when when I'm going to get up, the nighting right, right, right? So, it's gantunging in the door, just to be it, I'm not kidding. No, no, or...

Oh, I don't have, right. My gosh. I didn't have at that time. But it's okay, right? Because, yeah, this is the most of you said, it's shaped your mentality. Because, like, okay, you know, you live in 3 million per year, you maybe, maybe, you maybe,

Maybe you've been like, but you've been worse when you're back in the ambulance, right? So yeah, I think, you know, what's the overall good, and, like, I graduated, I took opportunity to, you know, really, to seriously my expertise and skills in the digital area marketing. So I joined one of a digital agency in this in Jakarta, and then, after that,

I was so into travel. More of, to be honest with you, it's more because because because because of because you, when you were in Aalci, and at that time, people actually think that Indonesia is in Bali, not the other way around. Okay, right? Then, like, past every time I, I, I, uh, I said that I'm from Maluku, um, oh, I'm from Indonesia and oh, oh, that's like, like, okay.

And then, no, no, no. The other way, Bali is in Indonesia. And we have so many amazing places in Indonesia. And I'm like, okay, show me some pictures. I was like, the only two provinces that I've been is Maluku, and then,

before I was in Bali, bantraining before student exchange, before I was like, okay, it's probably makes sense to start the, try traveling, to get a bit more of Indonesians and stuff. And that kind of,

That got me into a very into travel and I joined travel industry. Back in the days in this, jama-jama, travel local, I've already, and like, one of the biggest or, like, high growth, like, industry back then. So I joined this early stage company called wiko.com from Singapore. I then, like, took an opportunity to actually leading digital marketing for Akur Hotels for Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, and then, And then like there is a shift in the market at that time.

From from all of people to comeon in e-commerce, like that. And then as a, um, my principle on learning things is, I follow the money, but I mean, I'm a marketing person, right? So the rule of thumb is, if there is a one industry that can spend more money on marketing, that's equals to my ability to learn more. because if I spend more money, of course, not my money, like the company money, then I can, like, learn more, right?

And at that time, like, you know, e-commerce was really booming and was really, you know, um, but more, what, what, more than the people of brand founders in Indonesia, like local brand founders. Before that you traveled to 34 provinces. What you've got to find? Indonesia or to Indonesiaan?

Yeah. Yeah, it was quite, when, when, past, past, I'm not saying that I'm old now, but... For two-five, right, right? Yeah. I was making a promise that I'm going to feel

All right three three provinces before two or five, just because at that time, at that, not have committed, not new, you do you, like that. I think that happens.

I think the biggest learning, or what I openness from these all travels is that how, you know, people, our people is just so nice. And I'm, And when the areas, especially the areas of the small, like, you know, to sumba and stuff,

it's, um, what, yeah, um, they're, um, they're, it's, the definitions of, Bhaugia is, like, applies for them. It's very different with us, kind of,

because, because, we're, like, complaint, like, like, like, that, we've got, and, like, for them. I was in a village where they need to actually work for five kilometers to actually get

access to water and it's not even clean water to drink and they're okay, they're happy. So that's like, you know, again, sense of grateful, it's more, it's more, like, that's more, like, that thing that's that, what, yeah, like that's like that's like that's like like you've got to get like like the dynamic of like you know people across the Indonesia is very different

and we should be very proud of it because you can imagine how how difficult is a country with people that are like you actually meet them they have been level of the definitions of ramach of their definitions of like you know

how they greet people how like you know they talk to you and stuff like and you and different, but it's still very friendly, it's still very ramah and like that. Can't not be entrepreneurial spirit of their, that's, or more than, or more than, in the area?

Yeah. I think back in the days that, they, what I'm, the, what I'm the, the, the, what, the, the, the fighter mentality, that, is, so, it's actually, they need to actually find their own way.

Which is like, you know, which is like a very strong jikovacal to be an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs, you need to have that mentality as all. Like that's like that. But the thinking of what's possible, that's like, that's very big gap between them in the area

with us in the city, that's right. That's because because of exposure. Exactly, my point, and, you know, like, you know,

a, a, maybe they're thinking about what's, what's what's, what, what, who's like, who can be entrepreneurs success, making brand, brand, maybe, he's thinking about, oh, maybe, he's who,

who, you know, the other than, I don't know, the other than, that's not the case anymore. We see so many examples of even everyone who, you know, can actually build a 10 billion revenue business.

And we should like, you know, always pushing more and more of these examples. Man, before we're going to be a philosophical, but... The arti of life is for you, what is it? Ha! Pa, so I'm 32 years old, yeah. So this is like, I can answer based on maybe 32 years' experience. For me, like, what, yeah, the way that I see, um, the way that I see, um, that's really, like, you know, can you actually make other people life better?

Um, again, maybe this is like, you know, because I raised in, I was raised in family who really, really people who are really people like, you know, life better. Yeah. And, and in every, like, you know, step and my sense of my life, it's sort of that I always keep in mind, like, in the work life, or in like, you know, what, you know, what, what, you know, what's something that I always try to actually hold, like, basically. This is, it, with what you're doing what you're doing?

Yes. So, I think, again, back in the e-commerce state, when we started to meet, many of the brand founders, I can see that they have a very strong ambitious, on, they've had a brand, brand-ne-neutral-jutor-jita-a-bun-bun-a-bun-bun-bun. But they're hungry to actually find out, How can't how much can't get out? So they're like, you know,

don't know how, because obviously, I mean, you simply don't know what you don't know. Like that ambitious, they have like, you know, that, what's like, they have, like, you know, that, what name, to, like, you know, so, that's like,

then, like, inspired, make, because, back in the days, brand founders, that, they're very amazing hustler. They have very amazing understanding of the products and the customers.

Because it's better, yeah, mindset is, with the mindset is to the way that when we're actually talking to the customers, like, you know, closely, they engage with the customer. And then, they've got to, like, understanding their customers is much, much better, like, even like, you know, compared to a lot of us, like, as well. They're very close with them. But they have challenges that have

many capital, you know, they're reinvest their profit, so growths that's the growths that can be like this, and it's kind of to be able to mutter, so it's like this. Even can this too. Right, because it can't even be too. If managed it wrongly, like that.

And the two is, they don't have the enough expertise. Don't get me wrong. I think they're very, very... work is smart, smart. But when it comes to actually practicalities or technicalities, retail expansions, GTs, MTs, modern trade, and and, etc. Of course, they have limited knowledge, right?

And the third one is the ecosystems, like that. They're going to manage brand from from rucko, ruku, room, and cost-causan, and things, but at some point, when you want to make it the brand big, you want to have a proper ecosystem. So then that idea high-fasts like that's like,

instead of like we're making brand from no, what if like we, you know, work with this amazing brand founders that have amazing energy, have amazing, like, you know, ideas of products, of how we can be very community brand that's community and, and stuff like that high-fast wise,

we provide the, um, um, expertise of the team, we have 315 people, 355 people, the capital and also the ecosystems. Because of course, retail is all about scale of economics as well. So, so we're making, you know,

we're going to bring brand this in one warehouse will be more than they're doing in the warehouse and it's simple like that. But when we pitch to the, and we try to actually pitch this idea, but to the brand founders in the early 2020, You know, it's, it received amazing responses. Because the way that I say it is like, look, we've been too long becoming a manufacturer country, to be honest with.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of like, you know, global brands producing amazing products. We have access, amazing access to the manufacturers. A lot of like global brands production, do the productions you manufacture here. I think people always like underestimated. that we don't have the creativity talent to create some regional or even global brands. Like, and this is, this is the era, this is the time that we should prove that wrong,

because there's technologies and we have creative people. But come on, like, all of these people here is like creative people. And we have the expertise, we have the experience now, kind of like, you know, we've, you know, worked with the big companies before and, and the proximate, the, the, the relevancy of the product and brand. I mean, brand founders, you know, our Indonesian people in daily basis. If you compare to us and global brand

that kind of what kind of of the people who are the most of course it will be us, like, you know, we pitched them, what's stopping us to actually build the next Unilever and PNGs? But, you know, local brand instead instead of like just, what's

what's like what like, like, like, you know, like, we receive amazing, like, you know, responses and that's what, like, you know, keep us going until today. We have over, like, you know, 35 brands on our portfolios right now. We deploy over 400 billion capital.

Then we've seen, we invest in the company, but based in Samarang that they did 1.5 billion revenue in monthly basis. And now, like, they're at 16 billion revenue in monthly basis. And it was just 10 months ago. In 10 months ago. In 10-10-bulan.

And they're doing like, you know, 37% percent of the margins. If you think, from three attributes that's the the most game-changing, what's the main-changing, for, this, like, the importance of one brand from Indonesia, or a few or many, can be able to be able to beign brand, brand,

it's a very good question, so, So if I'm like, if I'm like, kind of from the three that's the most of the most of the people, I would say the fundamentals, and the fundamentals is the people. Because this is like the basic idea of what we do, right? Brand founders, you have expertise in product,

you know, how the communities, and, how like, you know, we can actually make the brand closer to the communities. As like, you know, we have the amazing team that's going to end to know how we can actually go to regional cross-border facilities and and all kinds of things. And everything else, we can figure things out together as a partner. The way that we do the business is we come together as a partner

and in the same, we're in the same. We're always saying that we hate to call our self-investor, we're not investors. And we're not going to, I don't, I've never, to make for you join high-fast portfolio, revenue you can like 10x in the next one year or so. But what we usually promise them is that, you know, I can with you in the way of your

and sad, you know, the mindset is the, we sit down together, we figuring out the Playbook A, we implement, we execute it, if this is, not be, not just, we come back, we sit again, and like, you know, come out with the Playbook B and then try again, to get the growth factor like that's always our principle. Like that's like human capital,

than financial capital. Look, financial capital, I think like these amazing brands that are doing like, you know, 40, 50% from anywhere, banking, and, you know, there are, VCs and stuff, right. But, actually, the other than they're,

But you know, I was talking about, context, how they can global. But but maybe in one titic, too, the need of the need of the much more than before before. Beto. I think, like, you know,

the need of the cost of the cost of the because you still need for inventory and, and, like, but actually, like, what I've seen, like, we've been talking to, like,

over, I think, 1,000 brands so far. so far in Indonesia. The number one thing that like, you know, we know for sure the product will sell amazingly in Singapore, in Saudi Asia, even in US or Australia, like, you know, we know the brands like, you know, will be, what, what, can be received very well for the local markets as well and stuff. The capital part, we can like, you know, figure things out. From banking or like, you know, assets, from us, it's, that is, from us, it's from, from the other than just again,

how we actually open the path into that, that's where we're really missing right now. That's where like we came. If you're like, you know, that's about about you, that's been with you, that's a result rate is not too high, can.

Yeah, it's maybe mencerminkin can process selection that where you're very selective, or maybe, yeah, not too much with the other ushahsah that, that, that, that's, that's, to make in the runa, or pentas, or even, or, or, but, so, I think, one, is we are being very selective.

But, the really, you touch a very good point. Yeah. Yeah. I really hate, you know, to, what we discover this. But we've seen a lot of like brand founders that they have amazing brands, amazing products, but they're not like, you know, ambitious enough. They have one car, they have one houses.

They like, you know, doing maybe two hundred, three, four thousand, four thousand, a month. And they're like, I'm happy, you know. And that's okay, right? That's okay. that's okay. But it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, like, you know, um, that's,

that's, like, we, we, um, looking into a brand, yes, we have a criteria of minimum revenue, ambida and, and, and, the biggest factors that we usually, that we know, how the brand founders. Um, we want them, like, you know, those who actually have a very high ambition, that, like, you know, say to me, like, Matt,

I'm like, I'm like I'm in Indonesia. I'm, I'm like that's 10 M, like that. How can sell in Thailand, in Singapore, how I can go to Amazon FBA, and stuff like, and we like those guys, right? Because like, you know, they have the energy. Because entrepreneurship is very exhausted, like, it's a lot of challenges,

it's a lot of like, oh my God, like crying in the nights, you know, always constant, what I mean, fears that you can buyer to pay like the client founders, right? But we're looking for like, you know, those who actually have that mentality and very ambitious. We can debate, yeah,

about ambition, but if I'm thinking, if I'm thinking, if ambition is not as high as what we want, then, then, the end-to-the-to-the-one, they're also, by the people who can

come from the other or from outside. Now, that's, is that there's there that's not not too much too much than the other — —theircum, yeah, if, I think we're the

— our job our moral, or you, — is to socialization it. It's okay not to be ambitious. But, the riskoing there. But, maybe, five-town-lago or two-ming-a-migue or for a few years, if they're if they're out of the other,

or the other than the other than the other than exactly right. So, I think, every time we're going to position ourselves as an eye-opener for them also, that yes, you're doing amazing 700,000,

$700,000, 1M, a month, and, like that, like that, but, you know, there will be a next, you know, there will be a next brand coming in that has more ambitious than access to capital

whatsoever and such a lot of you, like, you know, that's kind of, like, you know, like, and I feel like, sometimes it's about, like, you know, their nature, like, they're just, like, people, people who, like, living in the, what, like,

prefer to actually living in the comfortable stones, And again, that's okay. It's the people's choices, right? But for us, at least in Haifest, we prefer, to work with people with brand founders that, again, has an amazing level of ambitious. Yeah, that's all right.

That's the last because it's got motivated, with scale. And never, like, you know, um, never give up. And, and, always awes,

always hungry. Like, what we do the next? If we've got, who's the growth feeling has been like, okay, what's next? Like, because like we operate on the same way as well, right, on Haifa's like that. Again, I mean... Yeah.

This if I'm bunged in context productivity, Indonesia, to, productivity is relative, in 24,000 dollars per-orang-per-to-one for things and jasa, in binding Singapore, in 170,000, yeah, right? Yeah, that's, maybe, correlates their infrastructure, ecosystem, and connectivity their with many of the galore and inclusions of the Uynguang.

Many, what you're doing in the batas locika, that's menopang the importance to increase, not only production, but productivity. And it's the ambysic, it's not to bendung, and it's it with the ecosystem and system executions that's numidly. Right. Now, this is the limit? Is the sky the limit?

Or... I would like to believe, sir. Because, actually like this, like this, I don't see any reasons why we cannot be, or we cannot produce global brands, or regional brands in the market. Wow, that's not that I'm trying to, I think that's about brand from Indonesia,

succour-sukur from Polarote, like Apple, or like, Adidas? But seriously, right? Because, look, I mean, we did a lot of research on, like, U.S. brands, right? You name it Caspas, Glosiers, you know, all those brands brands that's IPO, albers and, like, when you know, if, like, you know,

you know, how, like, you know, how, how do the brands approach, like, you know, compared to, like, you know, us here, of course, in a very different scale, yeah, but, um, the way that they execute things, I feel like we have a very good chance,

but, like, we have amazing chances. This, like, you know, we are, catch up to speed, on, like, you know, a lot of things, like, like, you know, Obviously, U.S. is very mature markets already. But the good things is far, the e-commerce penetrations in the market is, you know, crazy now.

I mean, it's growing very significantly. You have a chance on that, like, which is like, you know, why we do what we do right now, because, look, but to be honest, the way that I said, one of the biggest factors, what, we haven't seen that, that, that, that happened as well, is, is that we need more people optimist in this, sir, but you know, but you know, about about your life of your life.

Because... Dillal, who would have thought? Laird in Ambon? No, I've never learned in English. Now, you're centurban, articulations everything in English, that's more than than the other than the other than the other

This is transformed, right? Transformation that's awesome, and you're not lingling, not talk to talk about with from anywhere from now, flashback to 2009, not ever to be-pickrown, yeah, yeah,

and this can't do. And this can be jember, tarakan, belitung, Polo Rote, again again, I'm going, exactly, That's what I'm what I'm saying,

that I think, look, yes, we want to, like, you know, create this company at the end of everything, like, you know, it's business, we want to make profits, you know, we're profitable and, and, like, but at the end of things, right, the way that you want to look at our business is that this is, you know,

we can make pangung, right? We're making, like, you know, a big of a big, because we invest in the brand, but we always behind the scene, yeah. In the high phase, we always like the brand founders on the front face. Because what, because we want to be able, like, if I have 35 brand founders, these 35 brand founders can actually show for,

I don't know, 10, 15 million millennials generations out there. But even I'm, you know, operating my brand from Jember, from from from from from from from from from from from from from from from from from from from them. Instead of like you know some big names or artist and they want to like you know see okay someone is brand founder like that's from from from Malang and and the other much of much, you know probably like

come from nothing family as well they can be something like Like that's a thing, you know, would be the most, one of the most powerful mindsets changes. Because we need that, we need more optimistic, we need more people in this country and more positive, more optimism. Because we've been living in the very pessimistic environment. But that's, maybe from from home-tangue, school, of the country, the country,

that ecosystem has been doing, for we can't always be positive, we can debate on that, so how can, please, because you see, at least for this one, I fast back in my experience.

Yeah, you're perkecholian or anomaly, but how we can mass produce. That's what, that's still, still, because I want to actually create more of these anomalies, but with what kind of technology now,

this, again, 35 brand founders, I mean, we can like do a lot of, like, you know, story-telling and stuff that can actually inspire those, again, on the tier-to, tier-three cities, oh, it's, it's like, like, that's what we're trying to do at the end of things, right? Masing, from 35 brand holders, they have had ambition global.

global. And we're doing it right now, right? So like we have, al-hmdulah, we have a team in four countries right now. So Indonesia, of course, our HQ. We have in Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand. And we just established a cross-border facility. And I think, what, seven of our brands is piloting of cross-borders to selling in Singapore and Malaysia. Kind of like, you know, again, right, it's not that

we don't think about the Indonesia only, but I don't see any reasons to be honest, but we can't... For we can't... Yeah, we've been like, has been, you know, on the constant, what, how yeah, how... On the constant bubble. Not bullet, yeah. But like, you, you, no, you, no, you're, you're just, you're in the Indonesia, just.

We're in the bubble, like, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. ...the parker, but... When you think about it, what's, what's about it, we have access to manufacturers, we have access to capital, we have creative people, right?

Okay, but this also we can be debat, because I'm seeing Indonesia is as a big number-the-four-n't-the-thum-thead we don't think competition, don't say, not say,

but the other, the, We're in the top five, top ten in the world, from the Sisi PDB or economy, from the Sisi population, from the position of geostrategis our, yeah, well, we focus on it, how to go be like that's just like that. Right, right, right, right,

Yeah, right? Yeah, right. We're banding with, not not America and Europe, with India, we're still, we're still, in some metrics. Now, this is how to we can't make make sure, ma'am.

Baby steps. Baby steps. But this, in five years you can see how many of the brands that can be able to be mighter you? So I think if, even like in the end of 2002-2-2-2-in-a-2, we've been super lucky,

and we're super humbled about this. At this point, what's the more and more brands actually reaching out to us, like that. And I think, you know, at the end of the end of the this year, we'll have like, you know, we have about 60, 70 brands on our portfolios. And the most, not the most important GPA, but the ambitious that we're trying to try,

of course, we want to build a healthy business, yeah, but all of our profiles, we push it like, you know, on the disciplines, on the financials, needs to be profits and, and, like, but at this year, that we target 20% of our group level revenue coming from non-Indonaisian customers. Because, yeah, that's ambitious, that.

At the end of things, what, this is a business, this is, I wouldn't say a show-off business. But it's as a, our chance, our efforts to actually create this stage, then really showing a real example that people who people before It's not possible, it's possible. That's what we're aiming, right? Yeah, that's what we're going to be.

Not even, we can actually sell very nicely in Singapore. Like, who would buy our local brands in Singapore? But, okay, you know, talk to me, talk to us in one year, and we'll see what happens, right? Can be assume-in, Masing from 35 founders, this capacity of communications, that's just about it's just.

I think they're amazing storytelling, that's what I want to highlight. Right, but I'm trying to try it here. Now, so the way that we operate, like, like, when we invests into one brand, brand. Biasa

hypefast, you know, operate the brand, um, like, you know, all like, like,

warehouses, fulfillment, you know, e-commerce, and and, like, we manage it, like, like that, like,

on the area, on things that they're really passionate about and they really like. So, basically, product development, they're very passionate about

product development, and they understand the market well, like that, the other thing is, being the community engagement. Because like this is two ways of how you want to build the brand. You want to go Caspar Way in the US, the Mattres company. Caspar Way is a very, they invest 25, 30% of their revenue into marketing,

and people just see it as another brand. That's how big companies and FMCG build their brand. The other way of like you build the brand is like, you know, Glossier way. Glossier is very community driven. You talk to your community, you talk to the ladies, you talk to like, you know, the moms. And you feel like very close with them. The brand founders doing it right now. So they are the one who actually replying to Instagram posts, doing the live and

and, this is the aspect that we want to keep. We don't want to like, you know, make it just another, like, cold brand. Yeah, engagement has been very. Right. You know, people can relate. Oh, this brand founders. Oh, this is really regular. So their story-telling skills, they're

also not all right, pa. But we're getting there. Like that. There's about English more? Not, not all. Okay. Now, how they want to go international? We'll help them.

In a way or another. Because I feel like that this is why we come as a partner, right? Like that. Go global, with one, with the other, from the operational perspective, from how they're like, like, we'll figure it like, or Mandarin or what's, but at this point,

like, if you ask me, that you, you know, plan's, I would be very like, if I say, that I figure everything out, we figure everything else.

We're still two years old business, but then a lot of like, you know, things that we're still figuring out, but what I can say is that we're very excited. Because, again, back to the one that's what, I don't see any reasons. Why we can't see any reasons.

We cannot do this, ma'am. You've figured out the art of the possible. Yeah, right? And, and sometimes, people are critic because he's maybe more than to be a lot of English, but, yeah, maybe, he has a aspiration to be communicating with the world international

and besaing with the international. Right. We have people who are in Pantas International. Yeah, not want to not, they have to be communication. One thing that, like, really, we really have to appreciate, is they want to try.

Yeah, good. They, they, they, they, they, they, you know, and, you know, think, okay, what can I do? And, that's like, like,

then, like, always, that's, what, what we pick this brand. But I'm not so much, but I'm going to ask, business this is can be able to entry

not too hard too much too, I mean, there could be a clone of you. Besog, with idea that's same, yeah, it'd be bedak-berak-in a little. And what What's the top the big guys in Indonesia to not do that's a good question about...

...darding from doing the whole that's the same with you know, to answer this, you know, maybe I think I'd think of the business model that, you know, like, you know, is now one of the biggest or the hottest, like, you know, industry at this point, right?

The name? What? There, uh, Now, almost like you know, every month there's a lot of something that's going to do like this. The biggest one is Trasio, there Haydee, there perch, you know, and Trasio as an example, is the fastest unicorn in US history.

And this point, the way that they do is they acquire Amazon FBA business. Like that. In the last, it's a unicorn. They're unicorn in 14 months. Wow. Yeah, that's, oh, don't kaget, there also, there's also, the kopskatt in India,

Mesa Unicore in six months. That's what I'm doing. They're doing they're doing more jake-old. That's what I meant. But I think, you know, the tricky part, is that so much capital throwing in into this space is becoming a capital game. Yeah. So, they're raised like crazy.

One billion from Silver Lake and, and so much. What happened is. is that tracios, you know, I mean, or some of these guys, used to like acquiring brands back in 2018 or 19, with EBIDA multiple of 2-2-3. So, the EBidam multiple is, what, what, is the actual increased into 8 to 9. At some point, the economics won't work. We caught it early on that one. So, from the first, we don't want to make it as a capital game.

So what happened is that since the very beginning of the beginning of, HyFes, we invest on the third pillar quite strong, which is the ecosystem. Like that ecosystem, meaning here, now Hafez has been offline stores in some of the mall in Indonesia. You know, we develop our resellers' channels, we're developing cross-border facilities, our own warehouses, our tech, and all of all kinds. So what, when we come into the brands,

this not can't be I offer So that's the competitor offer 20% more, and then it's not just, but we come, this is what our valuations offer, but remember, we have like all these 350 team members' expertise, supporting infrastructure, ecosystems and stuff like that,

so that's what our big believer. We are big believer on like, you know, developing a full-end ecosystem. Okay, being a devil's advocate. Hello, Thank you. Thank you for my friend Stia Endgame. Check release the new

from Future Narrator's merchandise collection and docung to the mission to find ideas from the other narrator, narrator, there is in description

Now back to the show. They also can can do. ... What keeps you awake? What keeps you awake?

So if you're not to clone, if you're not all right, but Anna still be being able to be able to learn. I think one thing that I'm like, I mean, I've learned from my role before. When we were being too worried about competitors, then it will shift our focus. Yes.

That's the point I'm trying to get. The way that I tell my team is that look, what is that at this point we are the largest in the market. But it doesn't matter. We were the very first move in the market, Saudi Asia. But it also doesn't matter, like that. What we really need to actually do is that we know for sure this business has a real problem to solve and we should be obsessed with that.

because not just to stop the other people to actually, I don't know, raise fun and then like, you know, create this business and, like, but if we really like, you know, believe there is a problem in the market that we, we can solve and we're just obsessed with it, we will always have, like, you know, what, yeah, advantage points, like that. And that's like, like we're always always worried about competition because not can't have been abysed-abes. And,

than, it's making I not to do not even, then like, you better focus on the positive things, which is, okay, this is the problems that, like, we haven't, like, you know, figuring out, or we haven't solved, how we can solve it. Like that's our principle, now.

Yeah, if we're newplick from playbook of Bezos, He can always make acu to, of the day one mentality. But the three things that he's always to the front, at least in public domain, I don't know, more than three in the reality. But the first, innovation.

Two, cost management. And the three, customer centricity. Now, for HIFS, what? What's... What's the... Those are the exactly same things as all. Okay. So, look, Patika, you know, everyone's...

I... This is, like, public, so I cannot like, you know, share a lot. But I think, we're like, you know, what's next. So, actually, like this, it needs to be a balance between this. Because like this, one thing that I really hate about myself is that

I'm very high, so I'm very high, I'm very high energy person. So my brand doesn't sleep, but which is very dangerous, because every single hour, you know, you always have ideas, eh, how if we can make, hey, how we can make this, how we can make your company create an octopus strategy. And this octopus strategy,

usually, not always not always good, because then you will lose focus. Just like, every time on this is like that like that. Exactly, right. You always like, what if we make it's ackle, like, make manufacturers, but then like, that's dangerous.

That's why I have people who usually slay me on the face, not like literally, just like, don't like that, to do that. And what, what, and I think like, you know, that's quite important.

But the innovation's part is, you know, based on the real problems we see in the market. We've running the company for two a lot of a lot of what we've, what we've, what you're facing real problems that we're not just defaced with our brand. So the advantage of us is that we manage our 35 brand, yeah. Every day we're seeing this and all the same way, and we know the problem that we're having with brands this.

Masala that's the problem that are the most likely also you're also in the 14 million online merchants in Indonesia. So then like how we can actually create a solution, you know, to actually, you know, also solve that problems, right? That's like, like, now, like, we're like, it's part of the innovations, right? Because it would be like, you know, like, you know, a bit different than our business model.

Right, our business model is like we invest on brands, right? Like, like, the second is cost. So, for sure. I think the discipline on the financial is something that we always, keep like that. Because like this, Pa, I'm coming from, how do you say that heavy money burning business, right? On the previous roles, right?

At some point, as a marketing person, which is not unique. Yeah, my job is... What is... ...that my job is... ...that my job is to spend money, like that, as a marketing person. But at some point, you like, you start to actually question about yourself,

like, so how about how you can actually spend, you know, I don't know, 10, 15 million US dollar per month, you know, on marketing and stuff. Like that, when we actually creating, when we're actually creating, when we're going to hold, is we don't just want to build a scalable business, but also profitable business since day one. And high fast has been profitable since day one.

like that's like, like, like, like, and there's a lot of like, you know, things that we can do around this as well, because that retail is actually about, like, how to actually you improve your unit of economics, the more, the bigger scale it gets, it would like, you know, get more efficient, right? Like that.

We as a group have that privilege, because again, when we consolidated all the warehouses into one way, and more efficient costs as well. So we are very, what, we are very, what, we are really, you know, serious about in the real real around that. I'm going to be about valuations. At least, if we look at the

development in the world like this, I think it's insanely astronomical, for conventional wisdom. Now that, how do you look at the development like that? Yeah, we'll see, there's corrects in some of the days, because of the other things

geopolitic and, and, and, what, the question about inflation and, but, this, this, this, this, is, it's still, it's hard, for this, for this,

in fact-sysmich or as well. ...and whether you're having to answer with the answer to be with you guys. Not even if you're not going to give me evaluation good, you know, but... So, my, so, the principle of my, and hopefully, like, some of the investors

watch this as well, and they can verify... there's no way that they can verify, but they know. When I, um, when I'mobble with Invasis, yeah, I'm not focused on the valuation, because it's a big responsibility, or it usually convert into a sizable pressure. Yeah, to deliver.

Right, delivered. For my principle is, is the valuation of a company is actually closer to the fundamentals. Yeah. It cannot be just putting a hundred X, you know, multiple of revenue, or revenue, and such all the bit aggressive, like, because what's coming next is, like, you will be investors, like, you know, once you actually have a very strong IRA. And, what, what, the way is, it's, the, the way is, with push their portfolio for, you know, growing at all costs, at all costs, like, at some point.

it's actually becoming a very dangerous as well. Like the way that like, you know, we do it, the reasons, why also, you know, we need to be, what, yeah, always profitable and disciplined about it is because, because I believe that a business needs to be, like, you know, closer to the fundamentals. And what happens in the U.S. market in the past, like, three, four, five weeks in this,

like, that's actually showing that, right? That investor starts actually realized as well that business may be, like, you know, needs to actually close us to the fundamentals It's not just zero revenue and raising at two and a half billion valuation's business. So yeah. Menta, how many of the METRA's in India? In India, ma, in India,

that's Menta, who's in the month. MEN-SA. We don't know yet. I mean, like we don't know, I mean, we don't know, the prof, so many of the portfolio of what and, and, and, But they're, they're established in 2002-1

or one of the founders, the founders is actually very strong. He was like ex-one of the largest company before in India. We're, if we're going to go about disrupts, yeah, that's been in the real-justa-euroxed, the business of the retail, garis-miring marketplace, that you've also been gelled-lutti, it's quite long,

and then, the third, but there's many, sectors that's not disruptions. I, if I look at, in the partan-garis-maring-peternacan – still,

small, disruptsiness. And that, from the economy economy we have 150 million dollars. Sehatan, there's been a lot of people who are still still cutas, that's also from our economy

education as well as well. Education, five percent of the economy we're, if we're bandinging with Thailand, that we're only one to two percent from economy our, which isa-international, yeah. But if in Thailand, it's 20 percent from

from P. From the United States, for the world of real estate, to be able to beaubate to be able to get verticals like this. And, of the energy, energy, not to be done

disrupts. Sectors, this can can participations, right, in in

corridor and this can be internationalization I agree. So the sky is a limit. It's just like you know how we see the opportunities and like you know how we want to see that right. It's mean, again, from my perspective, this is like you know really about seeing an opportunity and willing to actually take the risk to seize that opportunity as well.

Because, and maybe like you know, you know, mentality for it, because, Because being a founder's exhausted, but... Oh my God. Welcome to the party. It's chape, it's exhaled, it's a lot of, like, you know, sacrifices. Like the Kepalah, right? Like the Kepalasuka, ma. Yeah, right.

And it's... Start-ups is like a lot of uncertainities, right? You know, even the world, you're doing amazingly well and, there are you just don't know. That's not that you haven't figuring out and and so many things. But now, I'm a first-time founder, so, like, this is, what is, from my point of view.

I didn't, when I started a business, I'm so lucky to actually have amazing advice like that with us. My ex-poses, you know, back in Lazada, a couple of friends and, and such-a-machms. Otherwise, like I will like, like, like, I feel like, like, I feel like, like,

no one knew about, like, fundraising and, like, and, like, there's a lot of, like, you know, things, right? You need to actually know about, about being a founder. One thing that, like, I'm trying to, like, you know, create with a couple of friends, you know, to make this

Indonesia founders community more solid. I mean, in the sense of, like, we're like, we think, you know, just have a WhatsApp group, or, like, and then like if there is a potential new founders, like maybe we can share a couple of things and like,

because they will need it. I mean, same, when I'm at the same when I'm really, I'm really, I'm really, like, stupid questions to my advisors. So yeah, it's about like, you know, also being, like, supporting ecosystems, right? You're agnostic,

about, I'm going to the other or from the other, You care? Or? No, really. Okay. Why, do you care? Do you have concerns? Do you have concerns?

Short run, yeah, maybe. You mean that IPOs, you know, you try to, not prevent, yeah, you prefer people, or these startups that have passed one billion valuations, they want an IPO here locally, instead of like in U.S. and, like, Oh, no, no.

So, no. So, for them, for them, for you or who, or that's because of the data in the country, yeah, miscaya, we have to come from out, right, right. But,

for some time, it's not all about, but, but, there will be there's sectors that are a bit sensitive. Right.

Rompat with nationalism, or the otherlata, or the importance to be the things of the privacy data and and it's kind of be plentered as can-a-can-can-a-perseqa-can there perception or canyatta-gunan. Right. But this is a question for the

our own more than the more than-pinkered. Maybe it's just about the local also robust. And this is not zero-sum game, but for the same-eimbing. I'm just to be more I'm just to be able to beaughan-raising like that's important right to actually build a sustainable business

you don't have to fund-racing, you're making money and you can grow and you can't have to fund. Because fundraising is very exhausted, but then it's something that I think if you ask nine out of like ten founders, they're not really enjoying. It's a full-time job. It's a full-time job.

And it will take away a lot of your time to build the mitra-mitra. Which is a thesis that you're doing to where, right? Right. Because I have very big respect for founders who really bootstrapping the companies. And can really, you know, build a scalable one.

It's really amazing, right? Because even, what's like, that's really another level. Yeah. Like that's really about the world. We're going to talk about in 2004-5. But step by step, can maybe steps, can't, how can't see,

how you can't think of the way of the other? Two-four? You can be able to work on or whatever, or whatever. Right. So, so, the number one, the most of the most important is what I've been sharing,

that's the most important thing is like, we need to change the mindsets of people, that's possible, it's possible, like that. That's the most important. Because if it's not as long-smanget in the front, anyone who's what's with what's with what's just like, they're still like, you know,

running on the place, right? So, why we're trying to actually do is, yeah, we're really pushing this, this, like, you know, that's like, you know, have to high fast, to share their story, like, how, like, you know,

they've been building the business, you know, what's the, this, and, just actually inspired the next, you know, I don't know, one thousand, two thousand, three thousand, like, you know, brand founders, the world,

And the ability, like, you know, of course, the ability for, like, you know, this brand founders in this, you know, to, like, you know, to be beyond proof of concept that they can sell in outside Indonesia market. They can actually build a step-a-just-as-allenged, I mean, it's going to global brands. But we start small, like, we start from Southeast Asia, regional brands. Maybe we go to Australia's, you know, maybe like, you know, we go into a little bit of of U.S., Europe, other bit and things, take things step by steps, like, but we want to, like, you know, change that,

what, yeah, thinking about, well, Indonesia, you just all, you're just all, like, because we can do it. I know we can do it, like, then the other ones that, like, you know, want to do, this, right, the face of,

if you follow the high-fast face, that, you're, in anywhere, joining as a partner, And the other world, like we're hand-holding the brand founders, right? So we're like we're going to be able, we're doing with, we're doing it, we're nurturing them, like that's what's next, and, like, but the next phase,

which would be amazing if we can do that, we just provide, we just act as the enabler. And they can do it themselves. We provide, like, you know, facilities, we provide, like, you know, technology, then you do it. And then that way, It's not just 400 or 500 brands that maybe I can invest, like, it can be like open for millions of brand founders in the outside of that.

Like that's the dream right now, like, but of course, Bisseur, Bisa, Bissue. If I'm gonna say, I'm from very optimistic. I come from very optimistic like this. Yeah, sometimes I just know, but I think we can do it. That's true, if we're looking at home-KM in Indonesia, there's 50 to 60 million. Right.

The energy that's been able-dayaka-can, 125, if you're not think small, right? Yeah, can. It's, but, now, there are 3-5. But, this, colam's, there are 50-60-6-juta that's got bogoc with ambition or aspirations inspiration that's more good. Right. We're just getting started.

And I think, you know, fact is actually a good news for everyone. That's, is actually a good news for everyone. You have, like, we have give signals back to the brand founders for, you know, he can say, oh, this is actually working. The signals back, this is people actually buying the products.

Right. Now, what's in the world is the world's already good. You know, if you, this is what, yeah, to marketplaces in Indonesia, every time, one of 12, 11, 12, 12, and, and, like, that top 5 or top 10, like, you know, best-selling brands in those marketplaces,

in each, masing, category, So there are two or three like local brands. Meaning that people actually start to like the local brands. And this is a very strong signal, right? This is a very strong encouragement, like, for brand founders to keep going, or the next brand founders, which happens in the beauty category, as example, now, now, almost, every two weeks,

there's brand beauty, baru, manco. And if you, now, if you, So now, like in the street, many of the brands, like, what's now, taking over the ads, not like global brand anymore. Like that's something,

and such an amazing brands, and that's local brands. So I can really, you know, with optimist, we can do it. I think we can, like that. But, you know, we will, what, we will, there's so much that we can do

if we can do it right, this brand founders like, you know, also find their, what, yeah, sharing their inspiring stories, more and more like, you know, people inspired, then customers, like, you know, also responds in a very good way, meaning, like, they actually buy the products and they like the products, then it's going to happen. You know, you know, in the year of the brand that's about brand that's about a business, not as a good example, as a while?

As a example, like... Sauna, spa. That's a jasa, right? Tukang-cour. That's a tough question, yeah, Ma'a. You're kind of, you know, make you can be able to do not be able to consume. Beto, there's bedact, there,

there's capas, or what, or what, But you envision a future, where there's brand from Indonesia that's related with JASA. Like KPMG, or Ernst & Young, that's kind jasa, right? The center's jember. It's just throwing a curveball at you.

No, for sure. Right. Right. Right. If I'm, if I'm... Oh, this is very show off. So, so that's... So, so we've got to be able to be able to be Apple.

The brand like Apple, name is Bali. That's the from Indonesia, and cool factor's insane. Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. like to get a in the Umbrasca, in Darwin, in where, or what,

to be in Bala. Oh, yeah, that's great. That's, like, if I don't know, but if, solution, you know, like, like I said, like, I said I said, if we can actually provide the technologies to actually enable this SMB, a small-medium business,

you keep in mind that Indonesia is one one of one of the same one of the global solutions. I mean, Kanva is like originally from Australia and now it's becoming, I don't know, like 14 billion valuations business or so, like this like, you know, solutions like, you know, based on our real, real problems, you know, these SMB brands,

can also like, you know, happen. Like, yeah. I'm looking at the same as a brand we can't justa as a brand regional or global, what I think I, culmination from the our own our own

to to... ...andempat-it-beenepat-dirid on the radar. Oh, bettut, sir. Because it's, it's beencerminkin' to showinging the intelligence, and relevancy. This is actually one of the area

that's part of innovation is important, yeah? Yeah, it's a fashion. Right, right? The innovation, I mean, the way that I see... Bissauayang. The way that I see it, to actually becoming a global solution

of something originally from here, then we cannot be a follower, maybe. I mean, it needs to be like starting something new, but maybe based on real problem in Indonesia in Indonesia and relevant for other than other than other, like, so yeah, there's a possibility, because one thing that I know,

we have a lot of problems to solve in this market, right? Yeah, one problem at a time. Yeah, if I'm not the human capital, that's that you have to be in the front of, or we're in, if we look, We have seen many of the people who are successful in technology,

one of the market place, has been made sure a serial entrepreneur, or multi-entrepreneurial. Yeah, right? He's going to be a MIRS. Yeah, right? One of the marketplace, the background. Do you see yourself as a serial entrepreneur

or multi-entrepreneurial? real. Oh my god. Um, one thing that's... Because tempting, oh, it's very tempting. I think... This we can edit, me, nanty, so the investor not heard. The idea of, why I was...

So, the idea of HyFest, really, had already first experience on the e-commerce in Indonesia's, like that's, zero to one. It was like my very first experience. And I was like, oh, oh, oh, something that's something that's something that's really

I should do it. But I didn't have enough confidence at that time because to be a founder, many things you need to prepare your mentality, your financial or your family, because, obviously, the very first one year of five, as it was, I pay myself, Weemer. Like that, you know, I was sea level

in one of the e-commerce before, like that. And a lot of things that have to prepare, like that. So when you actually do it, it has a lot of, like, what, what, name, yeah, pa, yeah. Which, I think, like, you know, super fun and everything, like, I think, yes, very first one year, like, you sleep, like, four hours a day and and, like, and, like, when you actually, like, you, already, like, it's getting much better, like,

like you can sleep eight hours a day, but at least you can sleep like five, six hours a day. Like that's, like, if you're asking me whether I want to like, you know, do this again, if I do this one with the right people, I would do it. Like that. And I think, um,

what, um, what, the, it gives a couple of, uh, what, yeah, um, um, um, ideas, like, Because like, I sit on the holding group, I have 35 brands. Brand this is the start-up, too, is the business. That's what I'm getting at. So you see, like, you know, this and stuff like, but if you were asking me, like, you know,

what's the ideal endgame here, is that, you know, at some point I don't know when, maybe three years from now, four years, five years from now, you know, maybe some exits, I have the money, I invests like, you know, and all that you know, these start-ups and, I probably sit in Bali, you know, on the beach. And... You have first look, with each of 35, which will be 60,

will be 200, to 1,000. And not, not to gure. This, a person can just 10x. If I'm with me, I can 100 x in, right? Exactly, ma'am. But I've got to talk about 20 times, but he can't, not want to hear. just, well, I'd be it's addictive.

It's addictive, like, you know, you, again, Tadipa, you have the right team, the right partners, then the right ideas, right. So, yeah, let's see. I don't want to say it now, because, the talk about, that's, is, like,

I want to have, like, you know, more, what, what, the, what, know, what, the features, but if, Now I feel like we're not, we're still, still day one, like, like that we've got.

Matt, we've got to what you've used to work with with mytrak. I want to know criteria what you're going to recruit people who,

who are going to So you can't even more than you can't talk for hours about this, sir. What's the name is. So, actually, like, you know, I'm doing recruiting or hiring, especially for the leadership team, yeah, pay, background that,

or experience is like number of like, number of kine, like, like, because, joining in a startup, up which, what's like our up, it requires someone crazy. I know like this is doesn't, this project doesn't make sense, but when, like, you know,

the first time I made high-fast, yeah, Pha, many VISA, too, that's not that there, because at that time, that, there's, there was, idea was there, when there,

there's there's so that we talked to the vices back then, many of the visa that's who have benchmark in the US, or in China, or in India? No, then they were going straight to thinking about probably won't work. Because, yeah, macro market just, and then, like, you know, they suggested,

like, with your background, you know, sea level in e-commerce before and and, you know, in marketing, you should just, like, you know, creating a proven business model like e-commerce enabler, marketing agency, and so much. But, I always... always think, pa, yeah, is actually easier to build crazy, ambitious company, you know, over-ambitious company compared to company that,

like, maybe, yeah, it's like, that. Because, because, like, you know, to be able to actually attract the, the craziest people in the market, you will need the craziest challenge. And, and, biasagna, when you actually got those crazy, or you're hiring, you know, you got that craziest people, they stick together. They enjoy the challenge, right? You know, and they don't find some, like, some challenges like this, like, I have a 15 team, I have a 15 leadership team right now, yeah.

And all of them, I'm pretty sure, like, you know, they won't like I say it, but they are crazy, they're weird. Crazy good, like that. Crazy good, like that. To be crazy. Yeah, but they are obsessed with the problems, you know. They don't give them. They take the ownership into the next level.

But they don't come to me and ask you, Matt, this, this, this, how they try to figure things out first. If you've been talked to things out first, if you've got mettock, like, you know, we discussed as a team. Like that's a lot of process, ma'amal, right? There's a lot of process, manual, this is, if I always give a example,

when you join other company, you just go just, you just, you just, you're doing this before. So, this is like, no one is actually doing this before. So, this is like, like, you peonger to the water. You're like that's like you, you're and you're going to see how that's okay. That's why we encourage people in the entire company,

it's okay to make mistakes. I'm encouraging like, you know, people to make mistakes. Because there's not there not you making mistakes. And you need that. Sounds like my former boss. Yeah. He always said, go out there and make a mistake.

Just make sure you don't make a mistake. you don't make the same goddamn mistake twice. Exactly. And most of them, like, you know, what I mean, take the learnings from it, right? But then the next, like, you know, criteria usually what I call the antifragilities. Yeah, right.

Yeah, but, subtle, that's the difference with resilience. Right, right. You just have, like, you just need to actually adapt to maximize, like, what's this messiness can turn out, right? Like that's like, you know, keep going, but like,

mentok, like, you need to be adapted. Antifragile? Yeah, that's, if I'm, that's, if I'm going to talk about many, or, yeah, who, yeah, who's, yeah, who, we have to be able to between resiliency with antifragilitis. Right, and, is a basic, like, you know,

fundamental, understand, that people, I mean, I mean, I'm, like, you know, you know have to get the different. So, like, like, but when you want to wawancara the gillan how to detects the gilaan that you can, that's as well,

that's what you know, so that's, if I'm going to interview the leadership team, I like, like, like, one example of problem, like, like, like, then, then, then, I'll just, about, okay, you look like you look like me like PC, like that you're

a founder, you pitch me like, you know, how to solve this problem, like, then all the crazy idea will come, right? Mastain't really, from the whole that's the most important backal, but at least they try. And like, you know, they say it, right? Like, I don't know, usually like, you know, asking about, about about experience background and like, because I think like if they're smart people

but they can learn like that's like, you know, for technicality's role, yeah, like if they're for my leadership team, as long as they're smart, they can learn anything. So background, last matters for me. Like that, um, but whether that they have that passions,

energies, you know, and craziness, you know, But again, this is it a two years old business that didn't exist two years ago? But now like, you know, doing nine figures of USD revenue business. So, so yeah. So, yeah. The inting if they want to join you, they're, they're sure to gaggle. Right.

Right. And they're, they're sure, I'm like that's just because you will know right, like you will just know. The very first two, three months you will know that either like they will leave because, oh, this is too messy and I just don't get it. Like I just don't, like, what,

not, not can't, you know, the one who actually might, give me like, you know, a couple of like, you know, more weeks and and I think I can get it done. I can like, you know, create the way and and such a very different approach. So, so I always say, my goal is, I want to, you know,

hire a strong leadership team, yeah, so I'm gonna be able to sit down, sir, the longer I can be able to see that everything's run smoothly already, right? So I don't have to, like, you know, uh, what, yeah,

hand-holding in the above like, like, I'm like I'ma-cagat if I'm going to look at all the time, if he's from all public, or a calum investor or pre-existing investors, he's always said, not about Tesla or SpaceX, this probability the gaggaggall in this is a big-bant,

but we're going to get insane, and have fun. Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. What I always said, I always say to tell you know, however like this turns out,

whether we will be becoming unicorn, or public listings and stuff like that. The most important thing is, at least like find some, what, you're actually having fun. Because doing what we do is very exhausted, It's like that's like, you can't like, you know, find something that's really passionate about and feeling in your energy,

then you'll becoming a machine. And it'll be very difficult to survive. Like that's, Matt, this is the question the last, we've got there are brands that great, that's been known in the world. Gojerk, Tokupedia, travel local. In the year, 2005, will be there brand,

some of the other than Indonesia? Yeah, galangin just, yeah, I'm gonna dole just like... I like that. I like... If you're like that, if you're like you like you,

there's 20 people like you like you, that's like exactly, we'll actually stop counting. You know, it's just too many. I like that. And we should.

Again, ma'am, try, like, all I asked, yeah, you... And of course, like you have been thinking about this. Cobra try a lot of the global brands. There's not. Cannot.

Cannot. I mean, like, if we have the expertise and, and, because, thank God, like, 10 years ago, e-commerce and now, now, now, there's more talent in e-commerce who's already graduates and, and it's actually getting closer and closer,

like that. All birds, as example, in the U.S., that's listed in the U.S., is actually not U.S. company, is a New Zealand company. companies. Then why we can't create that? So I think, at some point, you know, I mean 2045, still 13 years.

No, no, 23 years. So, oh, even better. You know, I think we can like, you know, aiming for like, there's global brand from Ambon, from Rote, from Papua, and everything. Ah, don't, don't. Yeah, don't, because there is, like, you know, amazing brands coming from Bali, right? I think of the...

I think of the East, the middle, all of it, that's all right, because I'm like, I'm saying, like, I'm still, still,

back back, abound, like, at some point, I really, I really think like some kind of like some kind of too, so,

people will always, like, you know, overlook, what, what, the potential entrepreneurs in non-cota-besa in Indonesia. But they're, but they have, yeah, but...

...mastive. ...and thrive. ...and thrive. ...and fragile that, that they just don't know how. This is like, you know, just... ...it just... we need to actually pay it... ...we just to actually guide them a little bit. ...that's...

...ad ...ad ...ad ...ad ...ad ...ad ...ad... ...ad ...ad ...ad... Maybe like, like, brand founders, yeah. I think, again, I've got over with, like, several brand founders. The biggest, like, you know,

thing is that they just don't feel confidence about their brandy their, on their own own, how, how, how, you know, , the brand, can, be, big, and,

and, like, my ultimate, like, you know, what's what's what's what's like, like you don't have to do it alone. That's the most important one. This is like, you know, why exactly the reasons why we exist. Like, and I'm pretty sure you as well advising a lot of startups and entrepreneurs and and so this is our way to actually not just pay the other's, but how we can actually benefit each other's, then make it grow to the next level.

That's like the ultimate goal for everyone. What we're saying is that, you, you, you know, don't, you know, why we exist, but you just need to have stronger, you know, ambitious and confidence about it.

And the rest, you know, will be there with you, like that, that's just, So that's just, that's more than more than, like, like, yes, I'm just, I'm just,

or to Malaysia, Singapore, and less of, like, we're, we're, we're happy, like that's right. So we want that,

we want to see that change in dynamics. And hopefully we can also, what, yeah, trigger some of it, like that, light up the fire. We need more optimist people here, Amen, amen.

Wow. Okay, Matt, but thank you so much. Pleasure. It's a pleasure for me. It's a pleasure for you. Thank you. This is a lot of Karee from High Press. This is an end game.