Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Afutami: Bumi Sedang Demam, Sudahkah Semua Paham?

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Ekonom lingkungan dan co-founder Think Policy Indonesia, Andhyta Firselly Utami bersuara mengenai adanya tantangan sekaligus harapan yang belum disadari secara memadai oleh semua kalangan, yaitu kemakmuran yang dibangun di atas bumi yang lestari dan layak huni. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #Afutami ----------------------- Saksikan dalam versi video: https://endgame.id/afutami Pre-Order merchandise resmi Endgame: https://wa.me/6282133365263 Info pendaftaran program Master of Public Policy di SGPP Indonesia: admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504

Perubalya Masha'u'u'u'u'u'uang to bea'uang people, it's, it's just as much so much more I'm justaacan. So, I'm always more more than I'm going to usehackan which, if, if, if, if,

if, if, enforcement, what, do implementation with public, because, lewaping public's, through the law,

under the under, under the other, can't, the other, can't, again. Hello, I'ma'am-it-it

I'm going to I'm going to contribute for Indonesia more than 2005. It's why from where? Maybe one

one of my is the public policy. Now, that's the important to change is

definitely also policies, right? And to deliver it Taduagy, but too We need to beauching. Now, the problemat around it can't

we can actualisasically solutions for the other than the same the fact that's structural not only in the government, but also in the business,

and non-profit. Manton Sejian P.B. Ban Ki-Kimun, the president of Singapore Li Shin-Lung, and journalist Richel Meadow, Allureusan public policy

SGPP Indonesia school public policy first in Indonesia with the basis penguins, is being able penerimaresua for batch

to better for detail on the program and how matter matter or or secedar or reconsultation

oner your friend to the front, hubungi SSPP Indonesia through link that is

now back to the show. Now back to the show. Hello, Andita Virseli Utami, or Afu, a a person economist from World Bank, but also, he's known as founder of Think Policy. Afu, thank you very much, can't. I thank you, thank you,

already, I'm going to talk about this. Maybe what's need to beigascapsed as a kind of a particular, not a kind of institutional, or the other than the other than the other. Okay. Lethita, about the latar behind you know, where, school, where, S.D, SMP, SMA,

SMA, university, and then, and then, slaghan. I'ma. I'maughan't know, not really to be able to beaute in, so, so,

in 2009, 2. Okay. And then, Borgh, S.D. in Bogor, set to got got gottingen two because I'm going to goateinging, so it was in gotting,

so, um, and then, in the time that's in the kind of, there's a world that there, there's a union that Gautingan,

that was a business of the government German, then, back in Bogor, SD, SMP, in Bogor, too. SMA, I got

to bea-sissuah to the international at the Tangerang Southan, and boarding. Okay. SMA is a lot of, this, this,

this is from, you know, it's just being being, perhaps, the first time the first that's more

than the big-bogor, yeah, maybe, yeah, but, like, like, oh, Jakarta,

this, this is more, in the language that in school, school in international Turkey, , that,

we're, English, but there's a learning of Turkish-kina. Now, past SMA in, I'm going to I'm from the Olympia, actually, it's really, because I'm from the United States, many with womba-lomba,

but, but, then, when this is when it's just because school is very active to doork, we're going to go-Olimpia international also, it's been to America-Sirka for Olympiade,

the science project on energy and environment. So that's first time I was more than more than about, oh, there's about the other-cait, and the things like this ismah. It's first time to out of the other than other, like, yeah, I'm afraid, like, where?

In America? In Texas. Okay, in the city? In Houston, I think. So I just to... I forgot. Yeah, I'm not. It's in 2008, but,

Houston or Austin. I'm still in Austin. I'm not. I'm at Austin. I'm like that's just. Okay, so good. So, but... But...

But when I'm also, when I'm always like to debate. So if you're talking hobby, actually, hobby, really, it's really, it's really, but, then, it's like,

but, also, social, too, and I think, after I'm from from my, school, because I'm

there, some medalli from the Olimpida International, get this, this, this is the other than, the way to come to where, like, okay. A's a... This is my privilege, like,

appreciation from the government, but, but because I was like the debate, I was actually, I finally, the jurorsal of international, just to, when, for college, so, so,

I'm, sometimes, Ipa, it's, sometimes, Ipa, is, I mean, like, like, I mean, like, this is everyone

who's ever come to end-game and scientists, scientists. But it's quite exact in the sense, like we, we can't be

like, this experiment, this is the answeranns. And, if, if you're insocial, and maybe the language of liberal arts, there are many very common

from the question that same, so, right. So, I'm very stimulated with perspective that's different, different.

Solusies of social in the other can also can't different. Right. So, from the competition competition, I've got many things,

it stimulates me more. And it's still. The idea of the international, and it's true. So, the buddhaebat, that's from, or from,

or what? Oh, the other. So, in the room, I'm very because because of people be able to

people who can up to make up with, my mom say, my way I can't say, not in the, if not in the, if not even if we're doing in a way that's just

sort of, not the child, always be able to be either, either, yeah, okay, Mara.

Okay, Mara. So, so, so, so, the best of debate in And then at the SMA,

I like the other than the international this is more than what, it's more than what's what's going to be, what, what, what, in the world, just what's in the other, what's the other, that's the problem.

The other, it's the people, traditional, can, learn about security, security, the amanan international, like,

like, what's like in Ukraine, that we're in the context of realism, the international, But, but that's also, which is really interesting really is the problem of the environment,

the problem of the climate, I'm just as far as the kind of, oh, ternata, the way to produce energy is much and the way we're trying to produce energy,

there's a dampact to atmosphere, because, because if we're making energy from, like, we're out of the polusies that's the more hot, and it's making more than it's a lot of

but I've been named it what, what, when I'm not even in the other than that, oh, it's how we're making upproducing the energy that, can't, every other than the other, the way of the way, and since the revolution of industry in abat 19, we've got to beacar,

making out of asap, polosy, to the policy that's what's made, this, the problem, the climate, that's from the world, international, that's the important, not technology, energy, so if it's the science,

if this is, how much, the other countries this have been co-ordination together to make, because, if we're in the rest of course in, this,

the way we're making energy, the pollution, more, the problem, like the problem, but if we're saying, if we're saying, if we're saying, if we're working for five,

there's one who's like, I'm like, I'm going to contribute to what, he's not. Kind of, the one. Yeah, the one's one. The one's one is the freeriders. Oh, yeah, right. The headlompok is the most rajid

because she's a. So, right, there's free riders' problem. This is interesting for me, there's a lot of people, like, 992, more than the country, should we're working for work to make energy that we're producing with a way that not pollusied.

But, it's for a lot more than, you just, you just, you just, you just, you're just, I'm going to do the result, I want, I want the atmosphere not ter polusy, So, so I was like that I'm like that's I'm like, like, like, like,

like, so that's the dynamica, anter-negara, how it's, so there's coordination failure or free riders problem, that's, but that's just like just that's just like,

yeah, it's just the other, not, not, not the other, there's the other that's all right, that's all right, I'm,

I was interesting, I'm just a new thing. Then I'm from, what I'm, maybe, there's one of the context of, so, actually, this context is, today, in Indonesia, host G20. When in 2013, host it was Russia. And Indonesia was looking to

people who are the delegation of the people of the people who are for G20. I was there. You were. Oh, you were both there. Yeah. Yeah.

for delegation of the other. I'm at the G20s. I'm going to be G20s. I'm going to be here. I'm going to be the head of state it, the story of the menteriness also, the who delegations of the young, gai-gai-gai-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a.

And the topic that the topic that was sustainable development in this also and I've got to one one in the panitia selection that's what the work is in the curriculum, um, yeah. So, so, you know,

so, it's, so, because I'm thinking, too, I'm talking about issue of the climate this, it's the technology andergeneer and then, and from the side, right,

this, like, oh, why can, you can't, yeah, , I'm playing, economy, it's capitalists, but it's not people who,

just the other than that people are like, like people who are the same thing like but it's justro important to look at how the two ones are being interacted. Because, the model economy that we'll

pick up against on the environment and same, economy this also be operated in the bottom batasan livingcunan, but can, but this is the same thing, we've been

talking about two things or beamed off, we're have to pick one one one, that's out there's research organization or there, a labaga penitian-in-nearer, which is focus on to find solutions, where we can make sure and in between in the state of the living-lustarian,

like, because I like paradox from the first from all, I'm like, like, oh, this, why, you know, why, you're, like, I'm, I'm, like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to be a lot of it, to be a penelititig, and I've been working in three years. The name of organization, World Resource Institute,

the Lembaga Research Economy, and where? It's based in Washington, DC. So I was hired with team in Washington, D.C. for working in Indonesia, so, for about three years. But, But I'm not that I'm not even

bethue this, because I'm not who's about this issue is why not pa Gita, what's the time of my people who, to work in the company consulting that the biggazes. Oh, Jubila. Banyang. And they're doing things that popular, like, what, when that was popular,

yeah, what, and then, this is more popular, like, this is he al-Qu, working economy and there's no more than I'm not quite a lot of because we're also giving recommendations to people, it's not even really, I mean, it's not really,

issue of not priority. I'm going to put up again, I think I need to learn to beaacan public from the theory, and I, I'm 2, like I, I was 2 to Harvard, I'm doing to beaqaqa public 2 years, and I'm more to further

more to learn the economy, because of the public, because of the economy, the imping economy pure, to find out how I can make I can use the way to make people people more pedudely with the

because I'm notarer, I've made it with the people just, or I'm going to to talk to people economy, maybe to talk to Pagita, like, it's not-buny, but I'm not bison, because I'm not going

I'm like, to the people who's just to be able toly, return of investment of their, so, not get-tem-tet-me, so, right, so, I'm the time I'm, making more pinter economy, so, so that I can be

a dutal-linkung, who's going to bea-bhasa economy, that's, so, so, so, back at the time, got in the time I'm going to be in in a position as a man-like-scanic-specific,

where, I'm just as I'm going to translateer, a penerjemach, two-bhasa, I can talk to the person-economy, and to intergemac-can concern of the people of the people who like, too idealist, and, for having a solution like this, give the ratio-economy.

Because it's really, to come out of our way, it's a bit pragmatic, in the solution that we're doing. I'm about about about about the case of the Umbuds and the last minuses. What's not realistic, what is realistic?

So, the case is for what I've been first time I'd hear also, is the first time, globally, the other and the other states that all of contribution

to something to the problem of the claim this. the same thing, before the Paris, there protocol Kyoto, there's pacquata of the sameat before-in-neemate-sabot where, even-sepacat, that everyone has contribuosy, so, during, when, protocol, Kyoto, there was still, there is still common but differentiated responsibilities,

so we have, um, what, um, the time-in-jave-borsame, but it's not be-bidacreda-dasurk, a dosa historic, I like it's supposed to say, because of the cause of the law, it's different for every country, right? There's one that's already from the same, there's been a majoring, so so, so it's different, there's a nexus, what, the same category.

And, fast-forward, it's how many, yeah? 2015, 23-tall, yeah, it's, right? Right, Kyoto Protocol, 9-2. 2015? What? Kyoto?

From from from from from from from from from decades, uh, now, after the other than the other, then, then, again, yeah, well, we're just, now, we're janzhals, everyone has contribut to theogas our group of our together. But, but,

but, because, because of reserouserle-a-an, masing-mastewan, so, every country can be contributie as to support, to have the money, like, that'stellation.

Uh, that's as a progress, I think I'm not because there's a commasuadu from that had already, you know, this is all right now, this is all right, but, but even if you can be celebrated a little, it's still, it's just, if we're really looking contributions that by janejanked by the country,

to what is to what is to puttacan global that we've got to the world in one-sat Celsius, which is relative aman, or two degrees Celsius, that's just just over the target, that's just, if before the Pekata Paris, if we're not what's going to do you,

the country's not just to be contributory, we're trying to, we're going to the or even, or even, that's, or even, that. Now, this is I want to takeankan, also when we're about people, like, what's it, what's like, what's the way,

like, if you're not-papal-a-cac-because, like, if you're saying, if, if, 2,3, like, to 25, yeah, no-pap-a-pah, I'm just going to be able to live. So, this, this, not about AC from 23 to 25, but the temperature of the

temperature, bally, we're the demam pandemic, from 37-Draget, to 3,000-1-1-Malusia, that's to be able to be alive to die. Existial. So it's very, but that's about the water but that's the amount that's the amount

that's the rate that's the rate that's up, and have to be batheighting the right now, I mean, I'm, like, I mean, like, if, so, one and a half d'Ajat

it's like that. So, now, we've got demam 1.1 d'1 d'Assus so, so, so, actually, it's more, demam, because because of

we're still demam, maybe in front of the other people, there's been banning, in many times, because the krengen, which is more intensive and long. Datansy, not just frequency, but intensities of the banquenaed, even more mending. Not just in Indonesia,

in Australia, to beacarant hutsa, in Indonesia, too, yeah, tobacan huts. Heat waves, what, panas, in America, in Europe, many people have been gone because of heat waves, that's we've got to have we've got to beamed. But, now, the demam now, the dammed just 1.1 degree,

how how we can't we're going to to be far more than it, so, not more than the more than the world was in Indonesia? Ownership taking, or... They, to, or, how, or, how, How about how much of the from the paris, or whatever we've done

that we've done. Well, this is one ofotcritic to have many of people like I who who've been doing issues of theoban-iclim, yeah? I'm really we've got to use of parislems that's been made bygars for the people, to the way can't as far as much

can, in the way to say this is about this. I'm when I'm just about this, I'm going to learn in just inkingatine, terminology just, that's, just about, they can't, like, like, like, like, French, that's, not, extreme, that's, it's just like, but like, like,

but, like, so, I just, just, I just have to be a couple of years to be able to learn terminology, that, people, in the ummue, can, you know, to be able to learnjure,

uh, so much to be able to talk about this, like, like, here we're going to be in Sepakata Paris, one of the in the there, there's, there's, like,

not, no, don't even talk in technic, but, even in in the market carbon, there are, there, we can be said,

oh, it's article six, so, so, there's, there, there, there, there's, there, like, what's the most, like,

like, internationally traded mitigation outcomes, or, axi-mitigasi, asi-adaptation, what's different what's a lot of terminologies. There's a lot of terminologies that make people to talk about. So, if we talked, when I think, my people, um, um, to,

has already said, well, I can say, but, but autocritic is the same-cita-it-notes, but not even when people can't even be able to be able to beware, this is the problem that on the gantunging

itself, is about existence we? Is it? Is it, if we can't be able to be humanusiaan, that, I mean, the peradaban this, is this, is, or not? So I'm not. So if I'm talking about with my talk about in any other than in any other,

I'm saying, I'm not really in order to be in terms of how much, that's too, because it's really can be on the way of the basis, because it's, you know, this is, this, this, this, there's, how we're producing energy, people are all know energy, like, electricity, people, people, people get people, people, get the bencana, but, like,

that's like that's about, mitigation outcomes, or all the other than much, it's just so hard. The other than the other than the other, it's also, it's, because there's a lot of issues that we have, what, yeah, what we're having,

many, like, pandemic, like, this, or, maybe, who, the, the economy digital, or, or, all-pun-asu-is-u-as-u-and-and-with-and-all- and with social media,

all information, even about, even about about the other. Even about the issues of the other issues like, this is there's a rooman, it's full of all. Everyone's around talking about about things about topics, like how can't get in the world

how can get in the world in the room, so. So, there are activists, like, people, like, Greta Tunberg, or Extinction Rebellion,

They're like, they're going to end up extreme. They're going to, so many people who like, because what's, this, this is that's like, gretta, is to be agape, because in international forum, can black-blaken, the language, or,

that's been said, be risic, this. So, and we have been really , try, maybe, so, can get-in attensy uh,

yeah, so much, but, but it's not just toriac, because after after being, it's still still very, in the time, in the middle,

there's still, people who are still struggling in as a economy, or what, there's time to think about about the issue of I'm going to

try for Greta, yeah. If I'm not wrong, yeah, the people, the Instagram, that's 18 to

20, But if you're about, but if... Jalbara. But if Kylie Jenner, that's 250 to 300,000 to 300, exactly. It's two cubo that are symbol or manifestation from the gay of life that

different, philosophy of life that's different. One is, is very, decarbonizing. That's be it's a pulsar, right? From the polo of the world, and perception,

the people's large, the generation, as the Z, or the more muda, about the of our next to the that, that's realita or realism that we have

to take up to how we have to work more to be more to get back to the kind of with the other, including the other,

like the other, how do you... How do you... how do you... ...itimana, to gethurtas the popularity or concept that's the kind of

popular or... ...bacquate or... ...bacan more popular ...dard... ...that what we're like ...the ...emang... ...emang... ...emang...

...emang... I'm, maybe one of one of the other one of the panangam, maybe urgency, that's not even by the publicists, soing Kylie, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, just,

to go back a carbon, and then, to come out of the other-gast that's, yeah, and, and, that's not what, yeah,

the bigiakshanaan for the of the things of the environment, to the different. Yeah. The question is, it's, so, it's like catac in the the down air panace, it's, and,

the panace, it's, so, people, not sader, it's, and, to, or, tot, or, mateng just, it,

it's, The reason is urgency, it's just to beckon-and-a-deges that simple-like-the-sum to get to 1st-tenth-a-draget Celsius it's 8-tall again. Now, people are going to get around

but I said, Kyoto Protocol, it's in 2009-2, right, from 9-2 even now, we're doing progress. 30-t-todd-old. 30-t-year, right, right,

precisely, like, like I'm like I'm here, so, I'm sorry, sorry, please, please, please, then. I'm going to say that's 30 years, well, and not many that we're

or what we're having to happen that's not actually that's actually, right, right, right, actually, that's origin. Now, this, still, people are going to talk in crisis-iclin as something that's just one in front of the

so, right, so, so, yeah, well, if, if we're going to about freerider problem, we also have a procrastination, we like procrastinate, so if there's issues that we're more urgent today and then, then, please,

then, then, then, maybe, then, maybe, maybe, so, there's survey, this, so,000 people who are surveyed, who's representative, should, said 70% know, that's about there is a problem, the problem is the climate, or the reshaken linguanguans,

it's the badasasas, but if they're it's urgent, the numbering it's drop, so, so, but it's really, but it's just, but, but now, now, how we're, we're going to get the bancana, the other I've said in, yeah,

the banjir that we've got, in Jakarta, yeah, it's a lot of infrastructure and crisis-iclims, but that two-two-ne, that's both-baw-ahed, that's-bac-fant, there's statistics in 100 cabupatens, in Jawa, the petaningal-Pan,

in Nusa-Tengara, it's 150-day-lady-lid-lid-hid-hugent, that's the mostim-cring that they've al-a-lame. How much we've got-hubunked this, that this is about this is a problem, because many who may have this is a nature, or this is alamia, so. So, why is this, this, this, people panic, panic,

this, allamia, why? I mean, we're like, we're not being able to-untoned-as-a-as-a-as-a-kind. Now, it's-anarassin it's been made-supon, so it's simple, that this, that's beencana, there-hubunation with how carbon that we've out of atmosphere that's very, very, very, very, big, that. I'm not even to look at

whether or not even for the people who are the most the most of the world that's the most of the world to look at least in the world on the car-legged, or on the motor-lispride. Yeah, or motor-lisprud. But if they're at a car, and look at the other people

of the people about about the purubaniclin, that's good, really, Yeah, but when they're out, that Ferrari's right, right? Yeah, right? Yeah, right motor, that emissy carbon that's more than the more than the mobile. Now, that, that, or, or,

or, pula, from the, of the curangelyan. Now, this, actionability can, it's, not to be up to look, not, it's not, not, it, not, and, and, and,

I, like, if, I, if, if I'm about the number of carbon that's been emissinged, from from from from, especially in the revolution of industry and so-terusiness, many of not know,

or not know? And if I'd say, emiss of carbon per-town, that's about, 60-70 gigaton, and I'm about what what's about what there's going to be able to

be able to be it. must be it's just to-six-tallon like. But in paras-mokan their, not-keletal, that's the same-existential. This near extinction, especially if they're just making sure that they're sure that's even with an alternative

that can't. Now, that's how? Yeah, we're not going to be drama queen, yeah. But, how, how, to make solosic can? If I'm at what point, Pa Gita, when you feel like,

maybe need to be able to be so maybe from issue this, so maybe from the story of the story we can't. I've got to make a little bit more than issue in a week. Minimum two times in class. But,

but first time and how did you change your mind? 10 years. How did you change your mind? How can't? No. That's probably, maybe two, three,

time. Yeah, right? But don't know, I've got to do you. Yeah, right-tawn. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm still, I'm still,

the pulsar-in-that-theon-theon-lal-lough. Not-per-oh-oh-oh-dhurted so it's cool to go-brow about environment. But, it's not. But, it's like what I want to like what I want to

this, if it's in the context Indonesia, yeah. Indonesia, Indonesia, it's the people of the total, 72,000 megawatt that's built three-five-five-u-watt

majority of fossil. Yeah, right? I'm not going to get there's a perubhan in the or a bigi-ejacan to make-lach to this

can drastically be a and I'mac- I'maclyum, and appreciates the importance of the importance of our wisdom nashy, right, this is not zero-sum game. But what I want to see justro, there's supplementation.

Yeah, can? It's. Because the important we are, tautunctuant to be bebeang and to be a banka and to be a modern. If we're going to be a bankaiccation our we have to be a million, per capita,

to minimum, 5,000. Yeah, can? Singapore has 10,000 kilowatt hour per capita. Now, that we have to build 300,400,000 megawatt again. So, if we're only 3,500 per time, we need 130 to be a country that modern. But by the time,

maybe fossil, no, no, Yeah. So, yes. So, yes, if we're using lojica, that we have to get to find alternative. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, that's the natural is the energy, but technology not can't

make up effectiveness that we've got to be able to scale up with just. Spotty, in some of the but, but it's not even enduroo. Baruio, there's study that Bapenas. So he, laparantantantant, i.ean, what yeah, initiative, like. if, if you know, if it's one of one of the most important,

it's cost-affectiveness from someberate energy. In context of Indonesia, he's hitung it. So, he's per-binding can, for the energy Suria in Indonesia versus the international, then Batu Barra in Indonesia, then somebers other, geothermal, and other than other than other than it, that's not.

Now, what's been found, if you're nothernal, that's spotty in some of the country that's been able to crack technology that more than, maybe Tijuana. Maybe, Tijuana, one of the other than, maybe German, but, yeah, some, it's, maybe, is it's been able to be competitive if, if, if, banserarra, but it's still, but it's still still still

not even scale-dust. Productions of the Sunnaga Suria in Indonesia, more than, arguably, but arguably, before competitive with Batu Barra. But what's interesting, Parag, is, he's am going to be able to representatisksicantation actual cost or not, that's, in the way, supply batu-baran-na-na-must-a-must-a-must-a-lap-a-a-cuit-old.

It's just got-a-old, so that's the banking but the fact that that's the fact that, well, we're going to be able to be subsidized production Batu Barra, and then we're also not reprimed can beaity of,

miscellat, from, sayattingat of the publica in the the people that's about the abacate Batu Barat, for the... ...that's borne by, what, beaacaned to beaacaned to, not by the people, and the last one from the time

the time we're talking, it's the amount, emissing carbon-the-cann. Now, as a global, there's upay-upay to start, to internalization, if the basis of the economy

so, so that the other-in-a-ta-an-a-ta-an-a-externalization. So, externality, so how we're, because we internalization that, if we're having, if IAMF, World Bank, that's about $40 to $75 per ton,

that if you're in the way of production batubara, it's really, it's made sure that the other and other than this competitive, like, because there's, the way of externality this, that's not, it's very real, people are experiencing it, can be argued it,

no, no, no, no, no, this, I'm, I'm, I'm just, 100%. But this implication. Implication is dislocation to bea-existing business models. Yes.

Is. Be able to be able to take politics like that. Yes. Because they're very contributely to contribute to the economy, and not asegamang that,

for them to dislocation. But maybe it must be caranking or even or even which is incrementalist to the different, but can supplement, complement,

supplant pre-existing model and with the energy or with hydro or with hydro-thermal but if I look structure tariff for geothermal

that's not quite menawan. We can't comparations with Filipina, with, what they can, 10-a-kil-watt, and in here, there's 8-12-12-sense. That's not economically viable. And it's not incentivize

the people to be in sector like that. But if I look, there's also one that's a bit taboo, it's a nuclear. Yeah, right? And I'm sure I'm just to talk about this. Because if I'm banding can between French and German,

since Fukushima 2011, German, is actually sadar, pivot to the energy suria. But economics, not be partangu-javent, like what's what is in the same thing which, which they're in terms of to be able to work on nuclear.

And nuclear, one, no, no one, no emission carbon, same as well, now, this can we have been important to be being a

scale up. Yeah, so long technology alternative is deficient, or is inefficient, yeah,

why not just the paradigm that We're moving, we can't co-a-mananed and keymananan. Yeah. This, back to the first why I like debate and I like H.I. Because the solution is,

it's really being big, and it's really discussing about, which is more cost-effective, which, which is more visible, we can use criteria criteria for better to to prioritize-pick-and-a-dictive that there,

that's actually, it's really, this is why, it's just too, because even, even, even, even, there's specialization of the people who are

people who are that people who are but from from what I'm from the economy just, I'm not the technique engineering

energy, so yeah, so much, but. But, but, but, can be a solution of a long-y-effective. Because, actually, supply for nuclear, can fission,

but the, but the way, for the way, the way, the way, for the engineering, to do not an engineering, to do it. Uranium. It's uranium, but, can, there's somebers other, that. Now, that's, if, if you know, supply it's, if it's just,

just, it's just around, so, really, it's really, so much younger-ma-pendek. So, if we're puttooking-on-up for individual or $5,000, set-tidating, so, we should, so we're import,

or, or, the other, orinium, or other, anything that's used for nuclear-ne, so, if you're gonna, make-acac-one-an-er-re-re-re-reli-a-loddolat-ener-er-reli- in-all-reducting,

yeah, nuclear, this, maybe, this is not the ideal, but it's really, yeah, in the world economy, we learn all the trade-off. Hello, people, thank you, who's been a setia endgame. Check release the new from Future Narrator's merchandise collection and docung to continue to make sure the mission

to make the idea of the great, from narrator, naratour kren and the link of the description. Now back to the show. Jagung and kudelayy-in-y-y-ne-y-more-mort. I'm going to go to do not, I'm not I'm not the import, so I'm not a problem with, but there are people who are going to be there.

This is how we're going to be about. We're going to be able to. Right. Yeah, right? Not to be a province of Javarad. Yeah, right? This planet, lo. The stake is too high.

For each of the $7.8 million that there. So it's, it's maybe, it's more than we'll be multilateralization of the like what we've got, maybe, about 10 years ago. Yeah, right? I'm not director of the Pemasarant Nuclear,

but I just think, as a academic, this, how this is how we're going to be being a new country that modern, we have to build 300,000 to 400,000 megawatt. To make that, We're that's going to be scalable and environmentally safe. And if you're going to talk about the level

based on nuclear, it's just 3,000 to 4,000 per-tall. But if fossil, 7 to 8,000 per time, because because if we're going to be able to be a second, not. But it's the alternative is, which is, that's more discursus, like, I mean, much trade-off that's different. Because, if, if, even, if you know,

or geothermal, like, if you know, even though, even more than, it's more than, but there's a lot more than, because, that's still has to be in a land,

where... One megawatt, one hectare. So it's maybe 5, 10 time, maybe 1 hectare can 3-5 megawatt. But it's a real estate play. Or, is it's in the land, or in the

or in the water, but it's not much if it's not even if it's more labor-intensive. So, padat-cariah, for maintenance, for the for the massanings, for the matter of all of the same. Now, I'm, if I'm, my, mymigma, in my own, in the way, is not one solution for all, that's just soo-specific,

geographies, so. So, it was just when we talked to supply energy, can, can't the energy, first, in Indonesia, especially in the country of the upholan. Gaping the gaping in each of the world. I know I'm, we're still building bambacit batu-bara in Jawa,

but Jawa it's overcapacity, in a capacity, and now, now, can, what is the potency that's in the place of the other of the Kalymant, Sulawesi, Papua, or, if they have, many land or the water

that can be used for Syria, or the energy, or micro-hydro, that can be very-gratro, that can be able to set up of each of their wayladyma, that's like, because, there's been a lot like fanatism,

like, like, like, like, I'm not really, like, like, oh, it's nuclear, or like, or like, or, it's a lot of,

it's, this is a this, this, this, this, this is with the kind of kind of the

kind of the , Right. Right. Yes. And I see, so, if we're, like, what we're,

what we're just being as a baseline is that pre-exist. No, no, don't need to oboebok. Yeah, right? So,

inertia politic this is, be, right, right? Yeah, the other than they're even

in there, even, can't even, in paradinga back. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. So, if you're going to go bough oboebok that long, oboobok with sopan,

in the, in the way, now, I'm going to ask, what you think about it, but, but, but, I'm not sure, that's not yet,

that, okay, but, but, but, but, but, but, Yeah, more than the baseline is, don't be oboebok, okay. Yeah, can?

Cuma, right, just, don't even, we can't get we're going to get 400,000 megawatt. Or 330,000 megawatt this, this is to use paradigm and, the other, mayn, even, can,

in the lapang of the new. But, this, can, can, geothermal, like, solar, can nuclear, can't, but, but each-mash-mash-a-lebehan. But, there's each-mash-a-lebehaned

and krequarean, and this is that's the whole-sulusically, and the kind of the pran-kaheas to bea-an-a-suff-europeer-eus. So, if it's incentivize

entrepreneurship, not disincentivize entrepreneurship. As a-can-a-can-in-you-protect, me. Yeah, If we only 5,500 per-torn,

yeah, maybe that's, but we have to be able to 10,000 megawatts-towl. At least. So, if we want to build 300-a-bue more, we can't get modernization or modernity in 30-tahun-old-sage. Now, that's more chengly, to, for generation Z-and-ststress-ness.

If we're not to change, if we're going to change, posture, like, it's like we're about we're making for the importance for the convenience here. Let us not mortgage the future. That's what I'm going to be.

But, in my opinion, there's now, there's now there's discussion that, I think, I'm going to be able to get a energy to bea-enerbalt, like, that's been able to get-term. like that's like to guillotan, we can't get to optimisation this just.

But there's also a discussion that's a distracting to a ra- actually still batu-bara, but batu-baraned to what's up and efficient, so that's gasefication, so many technology. It's distracting, right? Yeah. Yeah.

But distracting if the thinking about the uckuran kuey-neye's so-so-so-git-a-so-a-a-. But if we start thinking really big, it's not a distraction. Yeah, right? If you're like, if you're like, if there's a quakey-gots-bent-gott-gontok-can,

but if the quets the quaint-a-in, the set-up smut d'apet get. But if you're the ideale-neem-like, just not? Absolutely. So, you want to coal-gasification you can be able, asal-untung the more okay just.

But if you're in solar, you're in solar, you're in geothermal, in maybe it's more than you're going to be able to beauntung. Yeah, democratize it. Um, so much yeah, yeah. And, but, maybe, actually, that's going to be a

important-pricing, yeah, before this, right? Yeah, there's also, bobot emissue yet, can't, so, in the, so, gasification coal,

this, can't be able to can be changli, I'm all for it, and it's just too chengly enough, even, even, even, even, even, even, to compensation the emissinging for in the place or whatever that, or whatever, that.

Now, so, for me, for me, asteris-nec-nec-in-conditions-ness, is that internalization the biya carbonia this, So if it's super-anergy-in-a-proportionate based on the cost of the amounted I'm all for it. Right. Right. Just like the apple to apple, not.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Externality, whatever, that's been transparent-can. That's like that.

Right. So, that's really, really democratizing. Yeah. Yeah. So, you just, you just, I'm not more subsidies subsidi-a-an, look-pilift model business

that's the most-line that's the okay and the environment-o-be-buegown-O-Betto. It's funny that you mentioned subsidies, because that's one of the... It's a distraction. It's a distortion to the actual price of the production cost, right? That's why, yeah, so long as long as long as long as well-examines,

that's more than efficient, because as well as far as far as it, as well as cost-costs that's externality that, already, has been internalization. So, yeah. Okay, then. But don't look, so we've, so we've already talked about energy, this,

but, actually, more than the et cetera emitting Indonesia, it's also from the sector land, so, deforestation, deforestation, of the community of the other, like that's unique, like that's the other. It's a bit more than than other than other

where, because Indonesia hutsa'an is much, because Indonesia's hudaning up hudan to convert into whatever, that. If we look at it to be backan, dosa historic, which is the swat which is the swat, which is the most to open up our hudan our own, but there's urban development so, many of other than, it's also, it's really,

and it's more to the area of the world, and then it's lead to land-use change, so there's a new change, so there's a lot of, that, and that's still-tingy, that. Now, now, we'll see it as a tantang, but what's really, the paradigm is, the paradigm that is, paradigm that this is a paradigm that this is a case for Indonesia. Because there's study that's about, 2-Draja, that only can be able to becapay,

so per-tigua. So, the per-tigua the amount of emissions to be able to target Paris, a per-three-needed, from solutions, of a basis-alarm. So, nature-based climate solutions, or NBS, yeah,

the, end-based climate solutions, this is what? So the that's notod carbon dioxide from the water, you know, poh, mangrove, macaw, and then-grub, that's great-mongruf, mangrove, it's great-buck,

it's big, and then-sail-eniped, miscaron, and so much, and so-stusen. Now, solution berbassis-alam, this, the biaya production, same like we talked about, the energy and the country, in Indonesia, it's been down, because we're a tropical,

like the setup-up, the point-noting for the hudan this can be able to move with so lebat and morehrahs, than, we're trying to try to be more than. So if we want to look at as a casepotan, when we're going to be a global, this is it's like a supplier, is it's the only, if we're going to be the global public goods,

yeah, we need, we need to have to production, Now, if in context, Indonesia, has public goods that's important to supply to the world, that's nature-based climate solutions that, Elon Musk's said tweet, he said,

"'She' what can't knowin technology that can't have been "'carbon capture from the "'I've given investations so much "'and then quote tweet, "'Oh, this is, this is, "'this technology the most murray, "'this technology's the most of the

"'that, but now the question is, The other, so there's a baris-agreement there's mechanism, for, like, as far carbon, or the other international carbon, so that's under the power of land in Indonesia, can be compensated by, like, the other than

car-drable-as-lars-lap-larsal-lap-lars-lullo. So, if, for bared dosa, to buy-dosa, help Indonesia, to-lola-hut-houtan-tut-tut-tut-a, or even in the carangas, this is a solution end-bath-effective-biaya, cost-effective-biahed

to solve problem crisis-iclim. Now, many, now, some, example, pilot projects that's that's done, and also, the kind of

the government of Indonesia to be able to make, what, yeah, potensy, this, to be the next to, and private sector can be able

about, in, in supply, we've been, carbon offset. So if you know, if we buy land, the land that's in the land in the hudan hutan, in restorations, that's way, that's the way that's the way

as faruessing what. Then, nanty, there's emissic carbon that's disrep from the land to be, now, there's there's independent verificators that will be able to check, okay, uh, pagita, turned the landeruner, that's just-one, that, it's be sold, as well as international, if we make the domestic it's also domestic

also, this is the samepatch, so now, now, discussion, too, many people who are thinking, oh, Indonesia, is there's been a place for open a hutan again, because we still have been to be retumbed and, and all the same-a-macham, but actually, if we're reframe the discussion,

there also, there's a way, that's nothersting can come to the sameatown economy that's not yet is that should be may dejahtra can beaacan masheras local. That's element other. So, don't even

mechanism per-agangang-carbon this, only make-prechaic a little industrialist who, just, who, who's juster, who, evener, that's just in-tank, and in-d-d-dent-tut-in-the-totan, it's a lot of,

They should also get compensation from, they could help to keep in the hutsa other, like, al-a-ali, they conversion to be able to be able to look like to as a good-lanjutant, as well as a good as it. I'm optimistic, to be with the upay alam

to solosican the problem, but, back to back to the I'm not too optimist, about we can't emissic carbon, 50% in 2030. For some time, this episodic. I, for some, for some,

more be more than than technology, more can't be able to be able to answer, from policy, the bigotan. Okay. We'll be able, we know. We're doing. Yeah, but we're sure, Because multilateralization, this is

it's about a little bit of discount, okay. A few years' not like what I've seen, 10, 20, 20, time the last. Yeah, and maybe 20, 30 years' long, it's more india, because, the, can't be able to,

is unipolar. So it's the that's the United States, it's more much more than it's a democracy liberal or a system multilateral that's drive by the penguins,

democracy liberal. But, now, it's going to be multipolar the world. So it's not it's not it's just

for America. Now, there's China, there Russia, India, there Brazil, there Indonesia, ASEAN and other, the importance, there's, one, and then,

also, amplification algorithm in social media that's more polarisation percapapan, eco-chambers. So, if we look spectrum of the not rata, not well distributed.

One is here, one this, one, this. Centrata is it's more copong or tipis. That's what's hard multilateralization. And this is perkerug with a senjana, that's in the negarer of the country but in the country majuicean ratio already 39 to 50.

This is high 30s, America, Tionk, Tionk, 48, 49, if not wrong, That's what, that's what's about, if in here, neocon, in here, Neolid, we're, we're going to be multilateralization, ooh, not gampang, too.

Now, for the important, this is a matter that's the fact of multilateral. So, I'm not looking. Yeah, maybe for some-tara, people who nentric

like Elon, that's, that's what can be harop-and-a-oh. Or maybe Xi Jinping. Because he can't untylucked or posture of the stature of thebishopan. Now, that's what, with Tesla and everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so. So, it's, it's, it's, people who are inattrieked, yeah, the way, the way, the way of the solutions, solositions. So it's... So, maybe, if, if in the context multilateralism,

gomonging about issues-isue, it's now there's centra-ne. So, if you're going to about the issue that's just intersectional, too. The beauty of it is, the india-dard from the india-dra-dermen from going to

talk crisis-iklims, if not-a-crisis-iclims it's everywhere already. It's everywhere already, we're going to monging economic, that's in the intrinsic, there crisis, because if you're going to be in

a big time, because of the impact, the kind of, the kind of, it's excessive or imperparraged, or imperparraised, or impere, we're talking about gender, really, there's been many studies-udy, who've seen how, if, if, if, people,

people who are in the same in the hutsarotan, it's like, the impact of the different, the people and male-lake, so there's intersectionality to gender. to where, really. So, now, but we need to have,

we need to try doork urgency and beer people more pedaling with issue this. It's, I'm just with the way that we're trying... It's autocratic again, like, to beaqqqa, because people are people who,

people who, but with a biterangue with their just, right, right, that, that, we have expansy, the language thing, the other, the urgency, maybe, really, has to visualize what we'll see what we're

if we're going to make the world in level of normal, because we're really, benign in just, yeah, well, let's say, now, now, now, about about millennial, millennial, it's, financially independent, or, now, when, like,

thinking, KPR, that, buy-in'-a-R, like, people, class-mena-un-up-n-n-num-y, 20-ttttown, In 20 years, KPRs,

you know, with 2040, the room has got to be able to but when you're going to be in front of permanent, or like, like, it's like, it's still out of

without... Yeah, ...u't still, still, and, and for what we need, this, this, we're, we're,

like, we're, 30-tour-tlene-trak we're working, we're taking up, money, and sohsacres, so much, safe, secure, financial.

But when the planet boomin's it's been un-hoccur, I mean, it's not even for to live-able, but it's like it, it's for what, that's for what? So, like,

it's more people who have been about this issue this in intersectional, and visual, in a urgent, so, people who are that isu accessible,

and we'll just as much as we all right, I think, like we talk about atomic habits James Clear, yeah, he said, if you're going to ask people, but to do-do list, not to do, but make goal, but it's very beautiful, it's very beautiful,

it's very beautiful, to be environmentalist. I just not just not even not even being able to be environmentalist. I'm far from it. like a car like, like, that's more than, what's really,

to really, to know, really, really, really, better, besie, zero emission, too, so, so,

because, I'm afraid to change in , I'm, I'm kind of , I'm like, I'm making,

maybe, identity that's where, we're, we're, I'm like I'm imperfect environmentalist. Or even not even if you're efficient, I'm even if I'm just from the point of efficiency,

because not just think, like, just think, like, just think, like, just think, like, using electronic that's efficient, what, what, see, energy star rate, you know, kind, actually, economic.

Even, if, if not puttory the linguongan, putt, with taguah, listick, that's, that's, it's just, that's up-acal, that's upal, like to get akech-to-can-like save money, or if we're down-lang-so, if we're daug-ulang-sampo, we're getting to get money. If we're doing money, we're going to get money. Now, this is really not just about the good-lidlingunging-cunging-cuh.

We're actually with, we're efficient, sumber-dai that we're using for the the abhabiling-asel-it, it's not have excessive, we've got to optimale. Now, back to how I guess my raise my first, we've been able to make sure, not green, the worldgooker, not so much bacharer, not so, not so green,

cinta linkungan, cinta-binar, but one single core value that I'm always tanam can, to efficiency. He's efficient, luar-biasa, extreme. Ampe we, if we're, if we're going to beaiciency. Like, if, you know, must beend-beckus, this, he's still can't be used to buy new, he's, he's mad, or we should we're going to be, there's a, there's three things that

have done in a day, there's a, then, before, b, b, b, b, beer efficient, but I'm c, then, b, she's right, he's wrong, he's mad. So my core value, and why, economics, which is entry point, is, actually, efficiency, not have to be deput with the environment,

If you're not efficient-as-a-eas-a-haping, it's not efficient-a-effician. We're just to find alternatives that efficient. So, we're talking about in discourse, it's about democratization, maybe, if we're about it, or what the language that's about people who don't talk about this

not to make it, not to make it, not to make taboo, not it's exclusive, or elite. We're just about, I'm not with forum this, yeah, that'sa'is curiosity of the Indonesia, that's got to be anka-and.

Yeah, right? And it's a step in the right direction. Yeah. You made it happen. Yeah, and you contributed to the process. So, so, so, so, if it's actually, if it's actually,

And as a great-notice, it's not-pahed, not really, and I'm just like that. And I'm just a spakot-baked, do you have to change your identity to be environmentalist that like prahu, like to Sumatra? Yeah, Greta would do that. But that's more to make statement, yeah.

So, maybe there's perahoo that's the power that's suria, that's the speeded also with the aircraft or what, but we also have to be thinking to to find efficiency and the piquatown productivity. Because this is to be bunked in the importance of our country that's

that's great. Productivity is our $24,000 per-one per-one per-p-pictivis. on a PPP-app just a basis, it's just as well-being if Singapore is 170,000. So it's very much. PR, that, is still much.

And, tuntunct, the number 24,000, to be 1070, it's need a pediccan, need buda-bac-bucing, it's electrification, it's, it's,

including, like, like, internet, whatever, so it's all of the all of the grackin, yeah, so that's not goncancan,

this has had incrementalism. Not-in-incrementalism, not-incrementalist, the purubahance. Because we also be to get-to-de-pacionality to have with stability. Now,

back to Paris Accord, or the Spacquatan Paris, This is from 2000-a-a-haping emission, it's up 35% not turn, justro. And contribution of the countries of bebeang that

majority of the delta but, but it's not common and differentiated, yeah, we're changing, like we're coming, because we're not 200 years later, but the

country that's been developed from 200 years. So we need to be be coming. But I'm more optimist in 2014, 2050. Because, maybe in 5-10-10-1-10-lady, this,

the per-dera-an technology has more scale and moreh and more efficient. So, for some time, we just to doa just of socials of technologists that can bemovacancy that can be scaled up

too, though. Yeah, yeah. But, in order to Pat Gita, condition like what, that can enable later technologies like thatchonauts like that, when, if, if,

if, if, if, the issue of still, even on origin, uh, there, if... I'm... I'm looking,

this... This is... This is... ...itural, when, is it... ... So it's... What's been told is capacity

of communication. Yeah, right. If people can communicate, he can be meditig-divis. If he can be pediccan, he can be buddaya. If he can be... There peradaband.

Yeah, right? So, so how, So that's where in Sorong, in Banda, in Polorote, in Bengkulu, it's able to communicate with

anyone. So, so it's got to be pasty-in, and they can't have access to the ilmoo, from from. The problem is, not every person, like you, who have

had a casepata to be communication, and the time to be educations, in the place education that's great. Yeah, but it's not just like you're in there. But he's maybe not even in English just. But if he can't in English,

he can beacon for communities in there, for for the people in the United. Now, from there. So, if you're in the... Sparckiessen, he can be communicating, if I think, that's the most of it,

that's the most important. I'm not one, that's the one is the in context, yeah, maybe, the other than context of communication, but, if it's about in the same, but he's like that's about it,

oh, no, they like the software, uh, what, the OS's, so, right, so, no disagreement. Now, but, after that, it, can be, people who,

it's just, it's really, means to enable change, or if they're actually technologue in local, or if they're actually what they're actually they've got to,

when they're either because there's a deal that's because there's a capital that's going to be because they can't get a model because he can't be able to be in the world,

not in the world, not in the country. Now, how that's how much that, right, okay, this is a bit more than kind of ne-rempete to economy. If we look, radar in Indonesia, that ratio is the M2, that's only 45% from PDB.

But if in the country maju, it's 125 to 250% and 250%. And in, in the other, the, America, English, Unile Europe, Japan and Tionk, that M2, minimum, there are $100 trillion. And how we can access it? Apalagi, suco-bunga-negative in some of the to the other people in Europe. Now, this is G20, we're making T-Uan-Rumah.

This is a place and great-biasa-old-huh. To we can narrasiccan. Bro, I'm like to pute duet, because my friends'u'uera, and and, like, line. This idea's brilliant, but he can't communicate with you.

This, I'm just intergemached, this. This is just to beel, this, gosok, with model. And it's been canal-in, to canalysan narrations narrations parubaniclim

that's curabance of acclim that's great, and if we're look, if we're India,

per capita per town, it's just $100. In Thailand, Philippina, also

$100,000. But in Singapore, $19,000, $1,000. Staggering. Perbedaance. Now, this is that it's not

correlates with ideology. This is it's been correlates with peneguacan huck. So, we really have tegou, serious about peneguacan hook. Singapore, can be able to beauloguinal democracy.

But they can't gettenan duet from Russia, Timur-Tenna, America, Tionk, Indonesia, and, and, like, Africa, too. Because if it's about money, ideology is number two. Just about it's about doing business.

Yeah. But if people who's notarue in Singapore, it's just, I'm, and if I'm going to be able to be quite. And if I'm going to be quite, I'm going to be able to win, even the position I'm not as quite

that I'm not as quite that I'm but in the other that's the economy that's the economy that's the country of lawyers. If Singapore is a country of law. That's, if it's a country of law. That's, if it's important,

as a big as a narrative as a bigotting the model. So if the world-loas in Indonesia can be communicated, IDEO is it gampang, to democratization, and then can be communication, it's with money. Sky is limited.

Yeah, yeah. So, today, recipe is, first, human capital-ne-capital-ne. Yeah, right, the education, then the two, actual capital-in-final-capital-in. with the money-fasilitar and money to make facilitation idyll at Jambar and Sorong.

The third one, this is that I'm going to be able to be able to beware. But public policy is, if for me, I think the third one, because I'm going to bea-lawful-lawful-lawed-a-bejacking public. So, I'm going to bea-bri-bri-buebri-hars is important. because when when you're going to what you transformation

on the scale more than the scale that's more, maybe not have ill-maskner, but businesses to be incentivized to transition to

a rise to more red-carbon, even to even more more than international to come to Indonesia, still,

the, you said it yourself, so, even if the law, regulation, the public-cubrican to have also amacomodasican, you know,

has enabling, has, must, if, if there's money, there's, there's, there's a biggation

internalization biabi-bottlesi- policy crisis-iclim this, that's, that's, even, if, if, if,

if, if, if, I'm, It's just to have it's just to be, that's the other than the other than, so that's two, three, three, one. Because, if we say, we're going to, uh, action individual, so,

that's like, oh, they're still taking Ferrari, that's kind of individual, or I'm still, like, if you're out of the other, or, if it's not, it's an act individual, but, when,

the public, has made up for the minimum efficiency energy mobile. Or, that's about, if there's a price of benz, or, after the price of BBM, or whatever, that's, it's, can't be a person's done by a lot of people, because of the perilaku consumsicu, and a lot of people, and justerang, it's,

because in discourse of crisis-iclims, even, even though many who like to take tanguropes to individual, so, ari-and-discuaries, is the way of conscious-consumerism, how much more than how much more than I'm going to beaumptu. I'maqaic, it's important, so we're not able to buy excessive, but it's, we can't rely on the perubhanes of the level of individual.

It's justa-law, ma'uro. Orang, what, it's just sooo. So, that's always, I'm going to be able to make upcure, or more than more than ushackiveness, that's the problem is systemist, which is, if, if, if it's actually enforcement, what do implementation with by,

like, lewetka public, because, lewetka, lewisks, lew, under the law, under the law, or the right,

the right, can't, more than, what, can't, that is, the, the,

can't, What's the way of the way? Right, right. Right. Right. Right. You know, you know,

already look down some there, there's, there's, there's but there are people who

who've been eating pisang on the down in while, there's there's there's

, there's is emotional intelligence. Intellectual capacity to caution, you don't know even though, but emotional intelligence, if I'm in fact,

viral, if it's been given to be a pemimpin or the people, if they, every day, or five times lewet on top of

the piscan, he's going to get to, I'm in, I'm sure, all the RT out of the out of the skin of the

shangue plighting that's the same emotional intelligence yeah so I'm seeing I'm looking think perangka

and kirkakak to gampanganganguechak but how much to make make sure that. Not, but we're not, but we're just like that

Well, it's quite quite. Well, it's just enforcement just now, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, I'm saying, in Indonesia, there's,

many people like Elon, the name is olen. Yeah, right, olen, oh, there's there that there just, just, but now,

this, we're going to about a little about automotive, yeah. that the mobile that he produced, it's morea, per kilowatt hour, than combustibles. Yeah, right? It's $135, if not a while hour.

If combustible, it's 150, for parity, the combustible, and non-combustable. So, he's had got capacity to produce to make production

that's actually more than combustible. Yeah, right? Yeah, right? Now, if you're just segment pricing just, if they're playing in the down, then,

then we're lumped to here, then we're muttahing to adopt, accommodation, and then Apple to Apple, with combustibles, Seless.

The first, the other one of the other than the other than autonomy, the use of the only from 24-hour-the-one. Yeah, can? Sissan it's put in garassie, the superiors, or Spotify or what, like to do you know-and-in

if you can't do it's just a lot of Theot of 100-a-st-tallon, can, theoretically, to 10-juta. But, angupe-l-l, it's not to 40-50-juta, because of the ego, people still want to be able to get-cli-ture, and everything. Can't bea-bain-in-gut-all-a-lety-all-a-lop-tall-a-lust-all-a-lust-all-a-lis-criced. It's-ad-be-obati, can, problem. that's in automotive,

that's just the hulinging in huling in, that's just the solutioning. I'm looking, for some time, technology, that's more can't answer than the policy. Bucan be it's not to be part-presenting, but what is to bequehaskan, the garis-bawahy is,

the cranks of policy, that's not as a realisman it's notepadu with people like you. The other, the other than the other than the other than process politic. Because I'm not looking, without political ownership taking,

the urusan perubaniclims can be solosiccicciccans. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, right? if we're not all the world, yeah. In the country majeu,

they're talking about, yeah, if they're from partah, in Germany, or in Australia, or in New Zealand, or maybe, but,

if, no, non-hijal, yeah. Now, that's the reality, in the country and in

countries and beckmank. I'm very that's that the young to the people that have to take ownership on the human. And, sukour-sucur, it's in politicization. Yeah. So, it's in politicization,

we can see kind of a kind of the kind of a less incremental. Yeah, yeah, so-pacat. This, so, really, precisely, it's so-one-b-buck-a-law-git-moh- because that's one of the alasan why I and my friends to be made up to do things policy.

So, so we think we're not disconnected of, there's kind of the other people who've got many people who've got to be overbago issue, but, kind of kind of political or the publican, not know what to go to where, so, so, so they're put with one issue, and they know

political, to, empankarue issue that, like, that's popular with the people who, Now that's now, even in the digital economy, too, can, many regulations that make up, and then in context of crisis eclim this, so many, maybe, maybe, but it's not critical mass, but it's significant, like,

who's not getting paid for other issues, but not get, not get the public, it's like a cota-hitam that can't be able to get what, is the public that, you know? Now, I had, I had previously, to, I'm really, of the law of the public, and I'm very much

it's really, what's what's not possible, what's what can't, what can't, and the public, that's working like what? After me and some of the other people, many who are people who are people who are people who, so, there's a result from LPDP, that we're going to bea bea, we're thinking, yeah.

I'm going to discuss. Thank you, ma'am. Mulya, very. That's a game-changing. Life-changing. Yeah, so life-changing. Nation-changing. Yeah, definitely.

We think, can't we make organizations that's a wadha, we're doing democratization about the public, the first, and the two, to be a jembatan for people with people

and also politici. So we lump it's one, like, in the DPR, we're also, we've got facilitation, between people people with the people people who are the last, and the last,

is to give people who are people also, about what's what's being in the public, because, back, back, again, there's often, whether that's the undangue that's being the DPR, the Rancel who are being discussed prolegness or what, then, also, the biggianing that's, it's not hard to be mrs. But, although, actually, there should have political ownership,

we have people more people more than, soing we want to be it, we want to make making school-secoling public in more bite-size, so the bent-camp-bulan-bul-an, we adopt and contextualization, many of the information from Harvard, and many of the other people,

learn to bea-public in Oxford, or to bea-bejavean public in other, we're making to cook-culem Indonesia, with other, with other cases that in the other than we can't as long as far as far as the person'stay, too, it's relevant, curriculum, and it's really important curriculum, and it's just to make them plasurer the public.

Now, the tantalanguant is, how we're making this, because the problem with school and education is, when we make school, yeah, school is one-angat-a-and-a-one, what's it, what's it, we're maximum, now, we're making an acara that, that's because of the online,

that's one, that's the idea, that's the idea, that's the first, yeah, that's really online, we're doing online. But class, class, we can't get up to 40, like, and let's see, 20 class, too, that's not many,

not about about a lot of people. So that's the tantal so, that's the time digital, to make making education public this more be accessed all of other, this is that we're exploring with team in team policy, that's, including how we're making a new chapter,

because sometimes, let's make sure, Ms. Bajaveraqqa, you know, about people who are people who talk with people who are people, people who talk about people who, like, and underring, but, it's at scale, but only people under certain, with privilege of certain who, that, I'll, I'm going to hear from you, but not, because of massif, people people people can't even,

you can, even digital this can digitalization, aspiration people who can be able to be disempeakable in a scale more, miscelling. Now, this is the area that we're trying explore, like, the pernation,

because as a-penting it to, at least, even, even, engaged citizen, engaged citizen, so, so, so as a worker-negare, people, people, as people, and as a worker-negare, who active, participates in process.

But also, also the other than isaughan, even for the people who are people who are many ideas, aspirations, you know, can't make sure, um, can't use, um, coursey-cursi, yeah, people, yeah, like, that's-in-as-penni-N-S,

even PNs, Bha, even in-Mas-Lon-2, Eselon 1, in the kementri-in-a-Mentri-in-manyed, where they're there. It's, really, strategist, really, strategic-bless-in-one in design a sub-buechewan public. So, the...

thing policy, is that's the way that's crisis eclim, because I focus to think policy not have focused to issue crisis eclim's, but just fixing the process first, that's the process that's more good, the crisis iscline is a consequence of alamiah as a one issue that must be pedulikin, because it's, as urgent that,

there is in the front of us. Now, I actually want to ask you to, I'm going to ask this. So this, for this is for me, but many people are skeptical, so you said earlier about intermit-comitant, what incremental change, so, so, so that's incremental,

so that's kind of, so that's actually incremental. Now, there are economists, economic radical, so it's just, so one of the professor Oxford, named K.Tray Worth, misasan.

He said, Maybe it's up incremental, but it's in the paradigm that's in other than paradigm that's more than the same way. Because if paradigm is still, we're going to be ableok in. So one of the controversial, Pa Gita. I genuinely want to hear your opinion on this. He said, we're to have to be uphe the only GDP again. This is kind of, this.

So he said we should be, we should be, we should be, we should be, we're not, growth agnostic, he said. So right. So it's not an agnostic to have growth, but we're agnostic to have growth. But the only two, the only one, the first is, fondation social, memasickechum, people have some of power that's enough to have a life that's like. Artisan, if we're still making sure they're not too. So we can use power to help people.

The reason the two is, it's true, but in the planetary boundaries, he said. So, growth is just a consequence extra from, we've got to be a lot of people and we've got to make crisis eclim to the farra, it, memporadaka, seizing the world. So growth is secondary. What do you think about this?

Because I know, there's a lot of, that economy that's not, not can't, like growth is, I've got, I've been, and I've heard, and I've heard, too. It's kind of utopian. And it's not... not...

...noticue to reality and realism in the land of the land. Is it in the context socialist, or democracy? Okay. Which, the power of moneyholders, that's very. And money holders,

is kind of with capitalism. Yeah, right? In Tjongok, it's socialism with Chinese characteristics. with Chinese characteristics, but it's kindal with capitalism. And it's difficult for them

unalier the importance to continue to grow yeah, right? What else for the importance geopolitic? Yeah.

So, I, I, I, I'm not there. I'm not there. Yes, cat the fact is. Yeah. Because,

apakish or a politici or the politic in each of the different of the country that's just with social adequacy. I'm not

I'm not because for anybody to be in a position of leadership, you think, That's it's beckly with ambitional. And ambi-dimensional, not unidimensional. If unidimensional, for the kentigantial just okay. But, like, economic, it's very big,

bobbot-ne. Belom-ladylical. Belom like geopolitical. Yeah, right? ... ...that's how...unidimensional, but... ...the other, this, the other than the other than... ...and not...

...I'm not generalizing, yeah, but for the most part, the people, to be able to be able to beckonedimping... ...that it's been becklegged with ambisies. And ambisi, it's, it's, ...tentuner, but that's very multi-dimensional. can be able to be able to bea-consiliation. So it's a bit more than theories he and reality that's in the world.

But I'm looking, it's not that we can't be able to see-eimbangan, yeah, between GnP, garris-miring GDP, and non-GDP. Right. Butan, I think, is a real manifestation of where the world should be heading,

But if I'm not the question is, when you're going to be what long, if you're going to be it, if you're not even, 50-year-old, maybe. That's, so. So if, if people are more important, the end of the time frame. Yeah, right? But if, if, if I'm in fact, 20, time,

for 10, 20, to the time, to the time, don't know. Masalani, is, is we have 50-town? We should. If we look at participations, meningat, more than the young young young who are in the end of the 21, and I'm hopeful, hopeful,

this is the last, making it 2045. Okay. How, in your think you? Optimist, so-so, pessimist. That's it. because more people who are optimistic,

I feel more than moral obligation for pessimists. Okay. Because if many people pessimists, I'm optimistic, I'm optimistic, so, so I'm not so much, because now, that's just that we're doing is just,

that's just enough, we can just, we can just like, if we're just that, then we don't want to do more better than, So I'm like I'm like, the same thing that's theonaut economics

the theory of K3WHt that maybe can be able to be utopia, but I'm looking at it is anchor, so that's... That's... So, to narry, it's more... It's where you're striving towards, that.

That's... That's... If we're going to be risiguan, there, there's... Yeah. Yeah, so... So, But if I can't paint an optimistic picture, what it would look like,

actually, what's like, what's like, how much how we've got transcissue to model that's more circular and redistributive? That's it. So, that's it. How much, circular, in a sense, that, to make reproductions barang barang that we're here today produces, we can use more soapsinginging is hyper-efficient

how much how much how far as far as residue production that's long as we can puter to move again, or if that's recycling, or if now, we're going to, we've got to talk about technology, we've talked about automobotiv, as a particular economy in context technology.

Now, can, handphone every year, has a model new, and every time, we're going to work many of the sumer-dial, nickel, or other logam-logam, to produce phones or laptops with technology new. I'm not anti-technology, yeah, if anything, like, this is, I'm not anti-a-a-it-it, but, like, there's a room where,

now, there's one that's making one that can't make upentook handphone that modular, where, if, if, if, if, if, if, the other camera's just, On the front of the camera just the entire phone has to be able to be able to be able to. Or how we can recycling the, what we're from the time from the year's

than, than, than, with the other. Apple has already, that, with, well, it's just, yeah, well, so, how this, this, the model of the people that's more bigger, like,

for all of all that we produce. But, but, but, what's, is that's what? Because sometimes we're consuming as excessive, because we don't

redefiniscan, just for the sake of, because consumerism is this is being being a lot, we have something positive, we have a lot of things, we have all of things, that can we can we can't as far philosophic, even, even.

So, so it's all efficient, but if it can't be part of I'm also, why we're in the first place. So, circular economy, what's first and foremost. So we're a lot more efficient. And, the iringing, because the Bumina, because the Bumina is that's beenemone from now,

element two is, we've built infrastructure, kota, technologies, technology, that's about risk of the banqueming of the climate. So we're so it's a kind of a climate resilience. or adaptation, if the way we build our cities, should be different. So, maybe the other's cities have been designed. And this is not bad, because of the other than the climate

is more than it's more than, because they're being luke-the-the-chewas, where can't walk, can't be design-ulang, how we're making we think that we're in the room, if we're having, people are in bodega back, from Jakarta, emissing very because we're going to Jakarta

and then, then, why should like this? We can't ask, why we're not design-ulang, how we're living a day-day, so, so, so if you can't be able to imagine, we can design-ulang the way we live our lives around low-carbon and resilient, climate resilient development, where we've got re-think everything.

And I think, this is the opportunity for designers and with various ideas brilliant, this is for the technologists of the with ideas, the industrialists' energy, the opportunity to make, and investations of new,

get to these, this is not have to be said in context, oh, we've got to beckarred, everything is bad, and everything, but I think, let's rethink a better one. Let's rethink a better world,

that's the problem of the climate or not, we want to live more better than, anyway, I'm just as well as a lot-hanging fruit, that's a good-hanging fruit, that's a circularity. But this is more great, yeah, thesis is, if it's just to be part-lusticant

that the bottom line for the industrialists, that's the brand ambassadors. Because they will be the brand ambassadors. But that's just also that's also to padu with social intelligence is a tingy. And, I've already about about about

many of the of the people who don't have emotional intelligence to show that for menugues to use of the same of whatever, for the same-a-parned. But if the designer's it's can promiscay-can

something cool-bagnet, then industrialists, you can get a good-a-punctungan that's been able to be a manpinsenia also, can't be immodally so that's about it. Yeah.

Yeah, right? Where do you, are people? I'm looking at her. I'm looking at him. I'm looking at him too. But we need more of this, yeah. Yeah, but I'm, I'm very of what you're doing,

and viral-can just. What you're doing, what you're doing, so that more than 4 provinces in the United States. And the more than we're aware of one day. There are again, Apu? Thank you. Ah, no, I think it's just,

it's just, I'm just, thank you, I'm thank you're very much. Okay, that's about that's about it. Okay, that's aphu. Econom-Lingkingan. Thank you.

This is endgame.