Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Alamanda Shantika: Teknologi Perlu Hati Nurani

Episode Date: December 23, 2020

Ambisi Indonesia untuk melakukan berbagai lompatan besar di inovasi teknologi digital penting untuk daya saing Indonesia 25 tahun ke depan, tapi juga berisiko memperdalam realita problematik yang sudah ada. Demi memastikan masa depan yang berkelanjutan di bidang teknologi, pendiri Binar Academy, Alamanda Shantika Santoso percaya bahwa kita tidak boleh kehilangan kesadaran (consciousness) dan hati nurani (conscience).

...semakin we can like women empowerment, or like, like, makeot-contact-can. We're, like, we're like, not piquot-kot-kot-can. But, now, the question is, why we're makingot-can-dry? ...with we're making things like that, so, this is Endgame. T-Temann,

we're here we're at a landa Shantica Santoso, of the company, and not-ashing in the world technology, because he has many of them give usa and be jasa, in some of the start-up. Allah, thank you. Yes, we're not. Yeah, so much, sir,

can't, sir, can't come here, thank you. You, Taurus. Taurus, Tawar just, Paget, Paget. 22 May, 88. 21 May, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am. 18? Yeah.

Percée. Well, is it? Well, I'm not. Okay. Well, I'm pretty. Yeah. Okay. Do you, there's a concern that?

Horoscope, that's what you're doing with what you're glutti? Well, it's, ma'am. Not just horoscope, maybe, yeah. Okay. There's been char like that, like, that, and I'm pretty much thing that, and and more than

more than to end up and it's going, and it's very it, it's not because, it's not right, and you're in the field of coding. So, if you're in the field of coding. So if you're like, it's a time,

that's kind of, it's kind of, it's kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I believe, like, everything in the universe and the energy, everything, connected, like that's about, because we're more than we'll be more than to behast like higher consciousness,

because, now I can't take care of class, mathematics, and then, there's, like, my past life, maybe, maybe,

like geometry, because I really believe in geometry, where like, like, some number, some patterns, it's, yeah, there's in our lives in here, there's patterns. Who knows? You might have been patogamous. It's just, ma.

It's just a-a-trita, be about the maca-keeked-eal. School where, and where, then at the end of thejuncta, to get to make math, design, and IT. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

When I was, when I was, before school, yeah, it's about umur 3 or 4 years, that's, that's, I've got-garing, and the anga-and-a-and-a-a-tut-a-tas-a-tas-a-tas-a-tas-a-lust,

like, like, like, So it's about three or four years. Sojave to time it, I fell in love with mathematics, with numbers, like, and it's already dajaroid and more than-a-tus-and, that's-and-thus-to-you-baw-hut,

so, from Matt. So, from the other side, my mom gawm gawainting, so, like, I'm like in two like right-kir, like kind of right-kir-and-kir, like, then to beckxed

like arithmatica, belajit-a-bacus, you know, like, at the place that, there's no-a-level-10, no-a-one-a-n't-a-tttttt. But, like,

I'mpe-tom-tomat, and if you're the most the day, how, why? Because there's less arithmetica, you were not a nerd, were you? did you know...

Numbered, because I'm just socialized, like, but... Okay. ...assin' about... ...inexing, yeah, you know, we're still... ...that like when SMP, as well, ...the...

...do, Muts выш, Bury, so that's sampi Usail, that, but... Yeah, the only... ...the ...the... ...the ...the ...the... ...the... ...the ...the... ...the ...the... ...the... ...the... like to make of the people who are like like exo,

like all right? Right, by the CV you, this is there? No, there's about, if you're doing? No, no. If you're going to, so it's like that?

So, it's the most na-naecal, even the same, the work, this, and, blah, school, but,

but, so, so, saxophone, piano, what's... Alto, baritone, okay. Yeah, alto, that's... Then, yeah,

it's... Yeah, and, yeah, ...ahera, coding, when, ...when, ...and, ...or from...

...and for the ...and already could be coding, ...that, yeah, ...the ...torn, ...that, yeah, ...that, yeah, ...that, yeah,

...and, yeah, ... ...and, ... because there computer in the room, then Indonesia, then I got internet that's like when I'm 16thalm, that's when we're when we're using, right? Right, right?

So, I'm curious, like, this is how to make website, and then, and then, from coding, you know? Autodidac. Autodidac. Uh-huh. When in the other,

she was a pupu, he was like in London, and he was when he was back to Indonesia. He was like chemical engineering, but he also, he's also, and he's gahering, like, that,

just from there, because when you want to monging YouTube, so much, to learn there, didn't, yeah, then,

yeah, then, try, Then, like, ...baccaughts, then, yeah, then, then, after the hacker. Umur 13, you're gonna hack? Yeah. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. But, there's founders, founder of the company that's the biggest, tech, that's hacker, too. Jack Dorsey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hacker. Hacker, Piawai,

Then you're in suave. Yeah, he's making Twitter, now, make square. Yeah. Yeah, so, yeah, awol like that, like, like, like, like, not like,

like, like, because, bonica, if it's not just, just, capas, that, so,

like, do get in, what, the, mobile-mobelan-a- , down-and-a-a-a-l-a- , like,

cable-cop-cop-cop-cot-cot-ed, And then it's not even like to like to look like to university, can, may be insinior or to be coder or what, or design. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, you know, I'm going to get all of, you know, match, IT, then, then, and then, and design, but design not lulles, just met with IT just, but I'm not lulles. But tell me this,

the people were the way of the world. Yes. My mom, he's school, pedicagan, guru, jama'amon. They're going to London. Uh-huh,

also, guru in London. But, after he was in banking when he came to Indonesia. Guru what in London? Guru Mathematics.

No kidding. Yeah. Wow. So, And then my mom, my mom, I'm quite unconsciously, it's, that's, like, like, in the otak of when you're in a lot of school, like, like, survey, survey, the place for school, you know,

yeah, all, after, after it's, like, then, but, but, but, past Papa back to Indonesia, And then, then-un-un-year-a-old, first-un-a-un-un-a-cult-pac-pulled, the other-struck-the-cuh-cuh-cuh-cuh-h-hrund. That's-h-h-h-hruh-st-h-h-hrumph-h-h-h-h-lush-h-h-h-hrumph-a-lus. from the name's, life, really, really,

really, really, de-at-as-b-bago, that's just, you're like, really, really, garis-lurus, like, but, that's really, really, really, garis-lurus,

and, yeah, when, yeah, when, you know, because, because, you're, the, people, you know, always,

always, I'm thinking, like, yeah, I, , I, will be, like, cool, you, and, kind, it's,

, you, out of out of the other, even like sepupu, spupu, also, banyl too, even can't be able to beaughan't baysa in Indonesia, and then, when I was going to be college,

because, because, it's really, tough time, when that. So, that, kind of,

like, can't get to get me of really, when when I'm doing, yeah, And when it was like if it's like if you're

because of the way of the Ibu also not get the campus in Indonesia that's what good, which is what? So, yeah, well, what I mean, what I mean, like, there's mathematics, double degree, and IT, ya, all, that, to that. But, when the school is,

yeah, pa, cullia. Two-t-tallue, I'm not cullia-cullia, so-a. Oh, 8-lown, yeah, bo-oh-law. What's the thing, it's just, yeah. Yeah. At that's even when I'm going to exam, you know, pa. I'm, I'm kind of coding web

is long, right, right? When I was going to be able to learn. It's three times, I'm going to learn. Because the first, you know, like, Nullis, this, the esi-in-suff, like, but, it's used toeroying-old-old-bant, So you're like,

"'Pa, this technology has not been used "'in' now, you're one of those, yeah? "'Sah, too, the people, like that, "'who's one of those, yeah, "'who's like to-kecherdasance' "'in' right, right. "'Tur's, like, "'kesol, right, "'this, this, campus,

"'co, not up-to-date, "'bent, right, I'll just, "'that I'd just, "'that I'm just, that's now that's the first, that's the other, the other, that's the other, I'm going, I've got,

I'm going to say, but I'll just I'm going to put in that I'm going to like, I've got to be time. I've had two

questions, he's just one but the answer for question number one, he gives two version. That's actually,

He's like, like, it's kind of, but he's kind of, but he's kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm kind of, I'm like, like, like, from the other than, like, not like, like, like, class accelerations when SMP, ya, all that, you know, too, people,

so, but, though, not, it's all the insinia, that's all right, did Alazar? SMA, at Alizhar, pon-oh. Oh, sorry, Al-Izzah, okay. And then why to BINUS? In Jakarta, can't be in Chicago? Okay, why in Jakarta, not in other?

Yeah, because that's, like it was, there was a double degree, IT and Matt, that's just that's really, then, then, then, that's the other way the other, not do? Double major? Yeah, but, like, no, there's double program that double major,

like, yeah, okay, okay. And yeah, it was, it's like, IT's good, what, BINUS? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. BINUS, now, who, lullus now, who's new, who's lusk, start-up.

Yeah, right. Yeah, right. But, it, many of, binae, that, being a entrepreneur, like, like, out from IT,

and then, and, yeah, and, that I see, that's, like, yeah,

the, entrepreneur, to, but because curriculum, not because of the methodology of theleadier, but because of the friends, so if I'm learning, like,

they're from out of the othercota, you can, struggle in Jakarta, you know, there, when one class, if you, go to go to buy,

Pulsa, there, yeah, so, so, So, I was like to be able to bea-pidivapan. I'm doing divi-bajakan. I've ever sold toke,

had been doing guru private, I was going to go to my students' students I, from C. From C. Asem, to where, that? That, if you're the other, why not there in the campus that's ecosystem or a situation like that? Or maybe there, but it's not clear or kitchens just,

success story like we've heard from here. Yeah, maybe because if I see, Binus, the, the price is not too high. So, it's, many people who are people who have struggled, that's, you know? Hungering, maybe it's, yes, great interest, intrinsic motivation.

That's what we've been in Bynar, like, what's what's the drive of people to learn, like, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, there's one from Medan. Yeah. The other than the person's only with him, like, like, you're from Jakarta, back to Medan,

back in the model, got it. It's just that's just, that's about it. To be able to put the world. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, So, so that's

the world of the world is about about about what, but the lingunganourn't that's the way, like, yeah, you can't be

like, like, on Harvard, and campus in Indonesia, in which ajarin business also,

they're from BAP 1, and the last, same, actually, can, but, but,

the, the, the, what I'm not even if I'm a lot of technology, not even if I'm not there ecosystem, not there community, that's the same thing that's why, that's why it's also

that's really thing that's all the same thing in BINAR. So, BINAR is not 100% online and not there's no-team-in-a-trap. Hey on, backtrack. Okay. Don't, just to BINR too. It's been a lot. From BINUS, how to,

of the life before Bynar. From Venus, Lullus, after 7 years. Yeah, so when I... Gara, because I'm... Gara, because... Degang. Yeah, right?

...sohnallie, then, that, I was to be able to do get down 3-pagging, because I was a day, that I can... This is... This is... No, no, ma'am. No, no, ma'am. It's been in the book of my story.

I'll read it. Purpose, yeah? Yeah. I'll be 100, you, sir, pa. Pessonan that, sir. I was just model in Friendster, though, like,

so, like, in Friendster, you can see what interest is design, and then, I'd do you doodial design, because, like,

there, like, there, like, when he'd like, this, this, like, Yeah,

I'm after after after uh, uh, uh, before the DVD-bacca, until the uh, blackberry

uh, screen protector, like, what, what's just that didagangin, so, um,

one day, there's some there who might make up there, people, people, so,

From there that's that one order, then, there's a lot of order there. Make one website, that, how long, so? For a person ala. Doolu, I was, so, ma, actually. Website that's a good,

yeah. So, so I usually design a day, and then I was coding, that's, so if we were when we're just, that's the

That's a week is bullshit. That's, if you're doing for the right? It's because, what, is, it's just like queuing, that's too, or to justification tariff, maybe? Yeah, but not

not everyone speed is so quick that, so much. But if they're like, if they're saying if it's really, it's really, yeah,

I'm, I, I'm, But it's already, so, so it's been framework then, then, then, then, just to redesign, like, yeah. So, then, then, from there,

so, sir, so, so far, so much, because, people, many people, in fashion,

I'm, so, so, made the name name name name group, community, that I'm so I'm a moderator yeah, yeah, that's the people, not people nerd, too, but in the world fashion. They're not, they're not like to come up with offline, we're getting in online, so, we're going to beaughan-bash-dain,

like, like, like, like, stitch-like-gim-gim-a-git-a-a- like, this, this is it's from what. It's like a lot of-kindle-kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, yeah. And then, there, there's been many, people who've been making brand local, like, there's,

that's, I'm going to come to, that's, I'm going to be technology, that, and, actually, making websites for them, so, we're, we can't, like, that, can't work-in,

yeah. Yeah, that, 1st1 million. One website? Yeah. Now, no. Now, no.

Bhopa. Bihal can't student, you know. Okay. So, so... And jebole-in-ar, that, can make website in a day? No, maybe, right, yeah. Two day?

Yeah, it can, ma'amu, yeah. Yeah, so... Mood, can. Yeah, so... ...bis, bhaebac, man, then, later, this. ...bis to be able to be-attur. Okay. So that,

it's the end up to have it's the time. Then, there's a time time kind of but still like

luck-lucan like, at some point, like, client, had ribbed really, there who

ever want to report to because website that didn't get like, yeah, I'm really, I'm still

time, So, then, yeah, all right, I'm shift career, you know, shift career, work with people. And, yeah, when, yeah, when that was, you know, that, like, like, when Papa Struck, Kulia, that, really, really, really, really, like,

like, make pecelelele, um, jam, time, time, that, so, not-usac'd,

like, so, so, man, so, the, in-between, yeah, yeah,

in-between, like that. When I was in the wartek, too, but I'm going to make pecelelele, three months. Every day, it's all the time, back from the out. Oh, that's right. I work there,

at the end of the damal, and there, there, there, don't just, don't even, it's, yeah, the thing,

it's not, like, kind of, some, there's somebe, Right. Right. Sambells, it's like that's life. Yeah, like that's life.

Yeah, like that's, yeah, yeah, that's, I can buy anything that I want, like, like, at the um, like, you can't buy, like, you can buy, like, um, two, yeah,

umor 20-an, from, from, really, really, down, so, like, like, this is the time I've got to be able to beajar.

Wach the time of the time of the bus, it was, like, like, like, d'uble, I was in the car, and I'm going to bein'ingin'an. Now, I'm going to have a bus, so, like, motivation's really, like, okay, I have to have been a good, I have to buy a home,

but, but, but, but, you've got to be point that, like, oh, yeah, just, like, like this just like two week, like, Marcy, like, yeah, yeah, oh,da,

it's just, it's just, like, yeah, yeah, because, you know, yeah, yeah,

yeah, like, yeah, that's, kind of the kind of, and yeah,

and, yeah, and, kind of, I'm like, like, like, like, like, like, like, not-punia-like, like, not-punia. When I was, it, like, I had to-just, that's the reason.

Yeah, I'm going to get that, that. And, yeah, when, at least, um, I'm going to learn, de, with, then, after-in-a-oh, that's, I'm going to be gage-murrah, you, because, yeah, I'm not tojure it, and, and, and, there's really, there's good, because because we're

because we're not ingear you, but, so, so there's something that's more that we're just like, like, there's people who, this I'm not making inalack, but I'm just

two per-beda-an-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-erang after, they're giving a case, they're not-nolk, like, like, like, I'm-gached-a-a-git-a-a-a-git-a-a-a-a-a-. Now, it's,

If we're really about abundance thinking, not just material just, but at the time we're giving more, it's a one of a good, not that's a good, because I'm going to trade with money, because I'm going to be money so I'm not thinking of gaiji,

got, you know, and then, so when it's been given when the time, I'm going to get back to cartu, like that's what, and more project, people just meagang two projects,

I'm just making five, but because, because it's the in-ignin-lawingingin' to learn, yeah, and it's really really, like, acceleration career is so quick, you know,

so, yeah. So, that's all I also, I also, I'm getting to team my, like, in the time we're giving something that, it's a little, that is justroo-notes more quickly than other.

And, yeah, after that, I was there, um, yeah, I'm backer in New, like, from now, like, from the company that time that. Um, the-keptuels that, he was back from Silicon Valley, and, uh, Masramanotoidigdo, name. And, uh, and, And that I just like, okay, I want to learn,

right, like, so, like, and so, like, he's like, give keyword, new, that's, in Indonesia, don't be able to mottomyn, and I,

and I, got, got mentor, like, like, like, as simple, like, agile.

It, 2009, he had called, agile, that, he's... Cool, and,

like, ... , like, ... What, , like, , what, he,

So I'm not he's who's who's actually, but I explore and yeah, it's very good. Yeah, it's very much more than eGEL, maybe in the past year this, and I've got from him, and I've got from him, so. Yeah, and then, to cartuco, I'd like with Maas Rama, that, I've got to beaer bernca, to cartu, and then... How much?

In my cartuco, one-one, two-two-torn, I'm supposed to be public enemy too, so, ma'amie, too, pa. Sorry, I missed this one. No. No, no, no, in media, ma'amie. Public enemy's the first, because, maybe, my body's also, kind of, you, pa, then, and then,

the other, you know, like, I think like a bit of a bit more than maybe, like, like, a child, and then, and then, and then, I'm going to, so, I'm going to be a senior engineer, six-month, then I'm promoted,

so, every six-month, then, then, then, then, and then, then, and then, like, other, like, has two-tahun, one, so-a-old, so-a-old, so, so, so, like, like to bea-baw-baw-baw-h-h-h-h-hru-h. So, like,

...lumay-like dishebelin with people, how did you deal with that? I just kept going, and... ...asuron-oh, people look, like, there are perubhan positive, in the team-ne-dia, like, why team-y-de-ya, like, yeah, that. And, the, at least, in the time we're just be doing like that, and we don't think about other people else be able to be

just we're really, be able to join, and they're really, they're going to look, and, long, long, ask, like, hey, you, what's what, what's the recipe? What's what, is it? Yeah, so, so, what? Yeah, so, there's a partentangant

in, and EJAL, this, right, yeah, pa. Pake, the way, and the other, and I'm justured, to implementate this new, and I'm still most most the manager, the most of the most. So, yeah, in cartu, two-awnan. But in Indonesia, kind of,

kind of, kind of, kind of, I'm a bit more than sad, and it's justa and it's not, and it's not, but... Yeah, yeah, and baper, like, but yeah. Now, I'm going to try,

this, this, ecosystem in startup, is it more leapsed, not from the cedronunging buddaya like that? Or, in order, not, not to be it's not not, not the other than it will be exposed with the kisirikin or what's your view?

So, actually, in many, man, ma'amana, yeah, not just in company that long, even like in startup, like that. Maybe when when gojerk, that's at all of the way. But if at startup, it's kind of Darwinian.

So, the people who's really, really, the hausan and calaparance is, and the credasance also, so much it's the bestiness. Yeah. So, what, yeah, the eclasan of a

person, must be more than more, must be more than the other, not of this, How did you deal with that? And okay, sila-sohn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what, what, what, I mean,

what I'm being, this is the world of technology, that's, in a school innovation. But, actually, the, Ibarat, and goal, that, actually, makes people who have

higher level of consciousness, where, where people who have hadi, so pinter is not just in the otak, but he also has got to be able to have hady, and, and, and, And if we're going to talk in science, technology, we're still as a science that's more,

that's more to be able, that's more than we're becoming to, and if you're talking about my tipping point in my life is when I can't be able to be able to be my own more down again. I have, I have I had to rediscover myself, that I'm going to rediscover myself, to look at like, what's like, what I'm just, what I'm having,

because manusia, that, in a time menatucked something, base is just two, between cataputant or love, or, like, intuition, or from thoughts, Now, this, this, this, has been about professors

in the US, like, yeah, that's all right, and other than other, they're about this, like at Harvard Divinity School, they're about this, how manusia it can be able to be conscious,

that technology and science this, making go back, Technology, we're now in social media, you know, pa. Maken faster we're react to something, you know, if you've got, you've been done social dilemma, don't?

It's not, right? Big time. Tristan Harris, too, this is very depressing. It's very depressing. Tristan Harris, this, already about four years, yeah, about tech for good,

But, yeah, like, cycle of the life, we're like, we're going to be able to, you know, but we're going to be able to be it. But, we'll beck again, because there's permaalhan about social dilemma this, and we're more conscious, right, right, we're getting, oh, yeah, how to react to this technology,

That's what I'm making like technology is to make sure people to more conscious, about his life of their, this is what I'm going to look up. Let's. I'm going to explore a bit, if you're going to talk about consciousness, okay, we'll talk about the theory of psychology,

if in psychology, there's two dewa. The first one is Freud. Freud. The other, Francis Adler. If Freud, is more than more than we're more than we're perpresent

what we're doing based on the experiences of what what's the social dilemma. But if if Adler, or Adlerian

psychology, it's more So it's more than what we're doing that's actually be correlates with whatever we want in the next day. So it's more positive thinking. If Freudian, it's more rationalization, justifications. Yeah, right?

Yeah, I'm like, because I've been I'm like to book-in' because I've got never been rock-kot. I'm like, because I'm too many of mygang-hapes. So, because of the psychology my was being manipulated. It's just like, ne-ne-ne-ne-ne-ne.

Full of excuses. Now, how, in context of the technology to the demand, so we're more ad-larian? If I'm like, I'm the other than I'm stiller, I'm still, but I'm still,

because, manusia is, kind of, in the two-tuck in the two-town-partame, and memory that, is just, you know-cuit-in-to-it-to-it-a, and that's what that's what fear, traumatic, we're we're not even though, we're not even though, because memory that's the way of the way of our own

matter, but that's one thing, but from the thing that negative we have to say that, we need to fix this, we need to let go of these things. Now, if I'm more than, and again, if I'monging technology, I'm just like,

I always say, like, we're not able to be able to be able to be able to, even I'm also, the people who are people who, yeah, sir, I'm playing how, so, make people addicted with GoFood, miscelled, like, too, right?

Ooh, finally. This confession, me. Yeah, yeah, I'm really, really, I'm really, I'm learning human behavior that's right, even when I'm like, it's like, it's been massacin, in the room, but it's still just going to go food. Yeah, so it's...

So you're responsible for that. Yeah, right, ma'am. Right, right, right. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, can we're in behind technology that we're doing, and we can't stop people that, which we can control, can just our own own our own, how we're react to technology,

now we've already, now, we're aware, okay, technology, the people who've made technology, really goal is like that. But, I'm looking, with Tristan Harris, he makes many people, yeah, and it's more than,

as much more than, if we're looking at Apple, we've got, we've got, like, oh, there's increase, the pemacayan smartphone-in, so, so, it's been to there, but, again, for we're, again, for we're using,

again, back again, back again, back, about higher consciousness, that, that's self-awareness that. Like, now, like, we, without we can't see, if we're traveling to a certain place, what's we

what we're trying, photo Instagram, then what we're trying likes from people, and the many of the generation, like, like, yeah. I'm like that.

Like a drug. I don't say, I'm like that's like that's kind of. Nangu-man, right, but but but can't be able to be batasy, or be, can be disciplined, yes.

Now, we have more aware with our, what we're doing what we're, that's what, that's actually higher consciousness,

to go to that, getting, like, motivation in the ideal, but not gampan. But it's not very, but if in the room

the family, the people can make up or make up to make up-document, don't get HP more than 30 minutes a day. Or, there's regulation from the government. Yeah, right, this is, if you're galaure niddle just, if the phone if you're just to stop. But that's not going to be able to the important commercial There's a lot of people who have pipa-k,

or who's the way that's the piquant, right? That's, if I think, yeah, it's the end-to-dochampung to the people, but at the end-ug-ugnipinan. If they have Nurani, he has a vision, for the to the front of our kids the kids that we're inunded with drugs that

is salurred by pipa, communication, like, HP, and everything, it's can be able to be able to be it if we're positive to the front. But if we're too... ...tergantung to our conscience and consciousness to us, to know when we'll beabotas to be able to be able to be

I'm not so sure. Because tool this is very powerful, he's just can't... Yes, has from the other people, see, sader about this. Yeah, there's exogenous force. Not just from the endogenous, that's just from in the that.

But, again, if I would you agree if there are the of the of the other than of the extent I agree, but maybe, if I'm looking at least, especially the generation I, like,

the other than five years, that I see, that they're not can't be batashi, they can't be able to not be able to, they're not even, they're not,

not just, react, but, but, but, but, but the way the way, like, the example of, in Biner, we make values of Bynar, the values company of Binaire, to make binaatang binaatang. We're using,

so, that's a lumbang respect, because for me, actually, because, because, cover it's, it's alam, there, codoc, Why?

Because of the of the way of the imagination? Because for I'm like, it's a one of imagination, not just analogy. Because, for I'm, like, Alam, to, gaharan us,

actually, like, message from universe, from the semester, it, to be in

if we're to learn to that, like, Then we have codoc, there's codic, there's Cawah, there's to melambeckon grit. Like, we just just know, like, if you're just like,

if you've got to be able to back, he's two days, be able to be back, like, not just like that, just like that, like, just, like, that. So, we're going to keep in things like that

with things like that. If codoc? If codoc, that, he can't from one to the other, melopped from their comfort zone, like, that he's been able to plumpat, and codoc that, can,

so, really, yeah, he is, a permercatoe, and ecosystem of the aridstiminger, if there's codop, the ecosystem not be... ...resinambungan, like, yeah. So, that's what we want,

to be in-binar, like, we're, we're gabung-gubbing-asystem-in-asem-asem that there, And then, like, like, we don't say, like, like, hey, come up you don't know, like, we don't know if we're not,

like, we have values, respect each other. If you're late meeting, artin' you're not respect with your people, so much. Smut, not

too, but not, but they're, like, right, So I'm going to know, millennials, and to bea-bawah, the way I'm more like that.

This is, this, this, this, is this, or, I don't know, intuition just? Intu-in-and-in-alamon-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-like, like, like, yeah, what works,

what doesn't work, So like, again, if I'm like, I like, like, I like, like, I'm like, like, so I'm like, yeah, what? So, like, again, again, kind of, you can't do with that,

that's a rebel in you. Let's, let's go over Bynar a little, yeah? Yeah. Bynar, this, has been didick more than 2,000 coder. Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah.

And that's exponential, not the Peningotanical? Peningatantly, uh, well-explanential. Growth rate is, per cent, that, per time? So, the, the, number of coder that did did. Yeah, I would say, 50%, and three-time,

that three-time, we're full scholarship, so, gratis. Okay. So, so people, that's still a year, because the nantrines long, but we're tutep, the scholarship. Now, we're doing the way,

but it's still very affordable, if you're going to dedick 10,000 coders, that's, how long? 10, yeah? Um... Give me, like... There's a lot.

Sorry, I'm going to think. It's too easy for you. No, no, that's too easy for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, kind of but it's about eight-year-eight-town. Yeah, it's pretty good.

Because three-torn first, we focus on producing the teachers, the facilitators. I'm going to think coders in Indonesia with a scale that's a lot of the same because we have to be a great as a country and a country, and,

and, and, the other countries and the other countries that are more in Asia, Pacific, India, and the Hongk, that's the scale. We're talking scale. If we're not going to be about in 10-juta, It's hard.

So, if we're in the way, if you know, there's one that's about, there's one with guru, there's a bit more than a guru, you're kind of a bit but we're in the ten-tenths here. Yeah, yeah, hybrid learning.

That's there, in French, that, Khorh, four two, of two, without the scalability is the ability to be able to be it. And what I like, concept is this is it's a very democratization system of education, or, or the system of learning. Because he's not peduli,

you're from where you want to be in the penjara, you're S-3 computer science, in drop out from high school, as long as you lulled in test and it's true. Now, that's the example. So, so A, it's given a problematica to make make make up a mechanism

about the disease A. The B, on problem lullinthas. C, on how electrification in a willyllaeat that's very efficient and effective. But they're three gongrel, like, to try algorithm that's the best-like-like-how-know-know-know-how-unleashed. I think that's kind of cool for a country like Indonesia,

because scalability is to be puttuked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you. We can just, if this open source, and then it can be alic-can to this, I don't know, what's your view? about things like that. Or system of the same like that.

When I'm about the last with Nadim, he's challenged more to scalability, I wonder why. And then, and then, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm,

I'm thinking about that, so, so, so, we're, we're that in the in the pedagiconsocial,

there's been there's a problem that people can sharing, because, as the time when they said, when they were talking, it's got to be unleashed, that.

So, so, for people learn on online, it, is, just 10% learnings, so. So.

So. So. So, that is one that I, I'm like for full, online, to learn it's there that can, but there that's that, there are people who,

to, for that's just that. So, that, we're still in the aspect psychosocial in the down the of our, and, and, I think, see, I'm looking to the like,

like, Apalagy, with the situation COVID, really, the number of the new-notourning, which is really, people are really pushed to think,

like, if you're like, like, how you're doing, like, that's the, that's also, one of the

one of the we think, like, this, university, there's not like, if I'm thinking,

that campus is not a place to be in class, to hear in guru, but campus is to socialize, like, like, community building, like, so, before it was in the campus, we've done it in BINAR. We're not having campus,

we're not having space, space, like a working space, cafe, to be able to be there. Why not we're just like we're just like with the places like that? So what? We're going to disrupt higher education. Dmitage the meaning the arti disruption is,

scalability, one of the one of the cost, so it's more scalable. That's what we think, really, really, gives something that's affordable, that's about everyone, with one of the one of the ones,

not-punuching, got-push, so. So, with we collaborate, we also make-hiducing, co-working that there. When, during, in Jokja, it was, in 2017, when we opened Binar, that was co-working,

many-one-tut-tut-tut-tut-pid. And, since when we, after we, after-ach-out-mach-mach-mach-a-mach, that's the smanguat, like, oh, yeah, we can't, like, we can. And, it's like, we're going to be a work space, and, and, we're just, we're just with them. And, then, and,

we're students' we have a place with with, we cost not many, that. Yeah, yeah. I, I'm just, but, this, you know, work in the room is productive. But I think, I think I'm notartheidstorning in the darrette,

differentiator is, brainstorming in the darrette, it's more... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, even being brainstorming, like, right, right, right, right. Yeah, right,

yeah, process of the class be like that, in school, yeah, right? So, so, maximum maybe, it can be online-in-can, but offline, if, I think, will give you the edge. Yes.

while that's while eating, or in class, while I'm going to be, but I'm just, I'm not even though because I don't know there's...

There's energy that ...the energy that's bad, so on the Now, back, to the question 10-juta coder in in eight-town. I'll hold you to it.

Okay. Because it's cool, if it's if it's like to be able to be able to be able to be able to beacsonate can, and, who's who know, in teacherless, it's been able to do, because, at the end-ugging-in-the-Dohenia to come to be able to be able to be able to see coding, I'm looking at how we can

to be more than we can't make of how we're too, we're not going to be able to get around the countries to come. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. I'm really, technology is,

actually, two things, yeah, pa. Cutting cost and time, you know, and with we technology, there's many things we can can we can

more important because with the technology. But, but the point of the Buna is, it's right, about when we've used technology, the sumber-dai-manusiness, has also, that's the driver, taxi-driver, has already, that's now, that's the challenge of our,

ap-escaling, up-skilling, that's important, but. Cases, because he can't coding, then, autonomous, right? Okay, let me ask you about some of these disrupts, disruption, is

even more accelerations, even even even acceleration. Yes, right. And, if I'm the most the most of the disruption in robotics

that will game change, manufacture. The other is disrupts in autonomous, artificial intelligence. That's, there's four phases, artificial intelligence, business, internet. And the last, the most the most the company is the other than the other than the other is the other, genome, sequencing, right? Now, that's in context two, first, robotic,

and the other, autonomy. There is, there is a bit of Binary Academy for the joboling debauling binar Academy to be aurehine to be in the robotics and also autonomy to the different. Yeah, we're more to be in the market too, sir, sir. Okay. Because if we're too futuristic,

too much more than the same thing is too, yeah, yeah, ha, ah, yeah. They're also, you're more demand-driven. So you're more demand-driven. So you're demand-driven, because the demand-notes, then it's the way to be-a-hrahing to that. Yes, but, but, but, but, but,

actually, what we're just about learning how to learn. Again, it's all about knowing themselves better. Because technology... Agilitis. Yeah. Right. Capacitance adaptive. Like, I do you know what I've got to be up-a-same-same-same-like

that I've got to bea-called, if I'm going to bea-sha-old. That's two-tenth-year. Yeah. That's just about two-tenth-tallon, yeah? I'm only kidding. Yeah. But, but the other basasasas that, it's been very much,

the theories, there's been very much more. So, we have to make up our kids to get out from there, beleaderned, because that I'm seeing in the other than Indonesia, that's the more than that, yeah,

the problem what just, they're being in, what they're being asked, Then I'm trying referencey get to

when I'm trying if I'm looking pattern I'm learning usually up here back upy this, there's a keyword we explore

again, in the place we have keyword what we explore again that's really that

discovery that we we try in in BINAR so yeah so we can give keyword and then

they're going discover and at all of all we'll give us how discover it's how to discover it. Lama, long, they've got to know how to discover it. So that's really what we're, what, what, in Binar, learn how to learn it, that. It's interesting, this, if we can see generation Y and Z, eng-gap-lap, there's 150-a-juta, right?

Cool, really, if all of all of coding. If you see, actually, not everyone has to be coding, okay. I'm going to push this, this. Yeah. Yeah. Because your former colleague, Nadim, yeah, not that's not going to be important?

Yeah. Yeah. But you're, you know, to beckonting, right? Yeah. Who who can't be able to, who not really can coding? Okay.

So, again, I'm, um, I'm... I was from there because I'm from there, because I'm from the background of technology. But once they're going to beaer, they'll get more than technology. Okay. I, and Nadim,

I have had a kind of because we've ever worked with we're working together. We, we're, I'm not just the people who's the people that's the people who's can collaborate, he who's who's critical thinking, he who's good,

he who's attitude, that's good, he who's a team player, not individualist. Now, that's really that we've made in BINAR. So, the people who's, it's, technology, but when they're going to, But when they're more about wisdom, about self-aware,

and even we're even foraticaing things that are very small, like, like, like, now online, it's engagement of guru in online, we iterate,

we even, even we even, we've even, we've got, we've got, the framework of, many, what's what,

anything, what's doing what I'm going to do. Even when I'm going to say to my team's a time, you know, so long a minute. Oh, kidding. Wow, that. Because... Because,

...otac our own if we've got more than two-jamb, that's not even we're not going to be meeting long-lame, yeah. Nadim notsukhurt, because,

the other than there's not lancar, so that's things that maybe, not... Not like I interviewed, she's a little bit longer. Yeah, yeah, sir. And, like, to make planning, planning for,

for their own, to learn, for the learn for their, weekly, that's... What's interesting. What's simple like that, that's really,

Let me rephrase the question. So, so Indonesia is to be able to beersaign and it's great, it's been called as a big, Ceredas. There's there are many Microsoft, Amazon, Google, or Alphabet, or whatever.

How is it? What's the people who can coding, that's from 270, you know, I mean, you gotta think about stuff like this, no? Again, coding it's just a small part. Small but it's big. Yeah, but it's big. Yeah, but the most we build the manusiness,

okay. What? What's the endgame that was, the endgame that's like Microsoft, there. There, Microsoft, there Facebook, there Tesla, there Google,

there Amazon. made in Indonesia by Indonesians. Hmm. One or two million. One million. So, that's just that's not even eight years. Yeah. But, can, for for me to create that...

But in India, in 10 or 100s and you can coding. But we're actually, not just butch-cordered for to make it. But... But we're talking trillions of dollars worth of... dollars worth of companies to create. Not much, I think, I think, more than one-juta, it's

already right, right. Where do you have DNA that can success? Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. How about? 10, 15 million? Okay.

So 10%, 10% is, so, with two Binar Academy, mission accomplished, for Indonesia, in some of the years to the next. With two, that, how do you mean? With two, what I mean, two companies like Binaar. Oh, two of course of coding.

Yeah, or you expand. Yeah. Bisa. Yeah, right. Has it be able, but. Okay. Then, talk to me about artificial intelligence. Any views?

And then you think, with Skynet? Scenario. Skynet? I'm, in a lot of the official intelligence. Okay. I know I did some research on you. Yeah, but the work never in there,

not perna, not perna, but if if you're going to think, or not, or, Or what's the... How skynet, it's kind of like it's very fatalistic.

Yeah, right? So, the machine will be able to make a human. But if the non-SkyNet, it's school of thought, it's true amalgamation between the machine and manusia, it just true, very harmonious.

Because, because, saling, and saling complementar. Singularity, like. that IBM, if I'm always out of 5.0, instead of 4.0, where human and robot will be together, that's...

Yeah. Yeah. If I, maybe, we're going to be in the mass agate, too, right, in the most where robot

more marjay, but again, same like we talked we've made social media, so, the way, like stock like that, but when he's going to be like to run,

it's going to beckxed. So, maybe we're, sometimes, can, also, we're getting aware, with the presence of robot that's the oldenia like now, so then we're

with, so then we're, so, so, so, this benign, you know, is that's positive to the combination or un-buttoning between machines and manusia. Yes.

You're not in the Skynet school of thought or camp. Yeah, right? If sky net, kind, aga-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-shae. Yeah, I think, that, we can't be able to be able to put it, right, people, people are people who's we have to thinkatting awareness of people

who are doing what we're doing, and what we're doing. Okay. If I'm looking at, what, yeah, the power of manusia that with a penetawen in a broad-paced, he can't get coding, but he also to use the consciousness,

like the did did in BINAR, right? That's great, too. If we're going to do robotization for manufacture, we can make up to be able to be able to bewarement for autonomy. I'm really with autonomy. Autonomy, this will pervasive, will very widespread,

spread in maybe five to ten years to the to be. I want to try to illustrate it. Mobile, this is a bit more than a lotonomous, because of the artificial intelligence is now that's really deep-bant. And I'm not sure that autonomy and electrification that's been able to be able to the

of the transportation, it will be able to from the climate but the way of the flow and polo and the model will be able to be a total.

Because the use of mobile that's rata rata rata just 4-5% because, the the most are, right there you know, to the pemilican or penjualing mobile

that's a drop 1 per 20 or 1.25. If it's that can share, right? Yeah. Mobile that's the same. And if I'm in time that we're going to go to subscription model for mobile. More to, it's the other,

yeah, Puck, right, even like machine. Now, now, now, now, just on the film only, just, If you like Lexus, the color of the light, the electric, just to, it's just in the

in a few minutes. We don't want to buyer it. We think it's in the imminent future. Yeah. That's... So, we make... Yeah, manufacture, all of all distributed, that's already

can use one machine that's same for... ... that's like, in Indonesia has ready to runcule autonomy, to runcule 3B printing, have to runcule robotization with a scale that great but,

so that's when it's re-skilling, upskilling, now let's talk about the future of Indonesia. How do you see, You know, you know, Indonesia, 2005? For me, for me, I think, disruption, too, is that way, yeah, ma'awecreating new ecosystem,

that's that can't be, that. And, um, um, um, that's, manusia, it's not, it's like,

like, like, the game is changed, and what other than, um, what I'm going to say, I'm going to be like, too this, what, Gita, no, but hopefully by 2045, the lullusan Binaar Academy,

and it's not been coding, like, yeah, yeah, it's, it's better, yeah, it's better, yeah, I was about philosophy.

I'm not by my mother's right. Keren. If I'm the profession like accountancy, lawyering, that's all, it's all, or be automotization.

Right. Just the cool is how to can be bach poise, philosophy, music, even that even can be created

with the or for the technology, but anyone who can, authentically, make up to produce things like that will be appreciated. It's all that

intuittive, back, so, back, so, so, but, so, tell me, future of Indonesia, from the technology.

From the technology. From the technology, um, 2,04, Is there is a big? Apple. Hasn't there, sir,

There's been there, but how much the other We're quite to beaminging the other actually. Mesa. Like in German, they just have only

unicorns one, right? So I think we're, we're kind of, Cerdiciawan, yeah, insin. Lucic,

I mean, like when I dole adha, so, like, like, like, lewate, boa-cambing, four, yeah, ma'am. So, that's, that's, pinter, innovation, so, but how much more than it's to the place that's better-beye. But, but justru, because the the money, so we're more cerdic, yeah, right?

Ceredic, but, scale-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-lare. Now, it's more than more than more than I'm going to be made by the start-ups, start-up that's good at this did not by the data out of the world, right enough, I'm okay with that. But to the front of it, no, there's no reason for the data in the country, to not, to be in-duking.

Because, maybe, mindset shift-shift-in-y-you-cuff-lap, yeah? This, if, if, in the, if it's structural. System of the Indonesia, if you're if you're not even than 12 months, time deposit.

So if you don't want, not want, the same can't be too long. But if in the other in the world, in the world, they want to pinjim 20, 30, 30, can be it.

To be able, 10-year, that's, That's that's... If weirah ushaha, it's a way to do-usah, they're going to be, because I'm not too much as I'm not too as far as far as far as far as

juster, to juster, to make for think long, fail long, late, that just to just to

make us to make us to think long. Yeah, to think to look at least from the time of the long. Now, if that's, it's, then,

then the fundaance also durations the duration of the long, that's very structural, there's no lessen. We can't bring uproquhsons of the million dollars, the dollars, the way.

Yeah. Because like B. B.O.M.N. and government, all, can, So if I'm saying, I'm saying, I'm saying I'm saying, I'm saying, ma'am, ma'am,

but I'm trying, but I'm, I'm, I'm, we're also, we're trembaq with cyclist five-tawn. Right, right? Yeah, right? Like, you just have

time, you just have time, like, I'm always, yeah, I'm in BWMN, so, like, they've had been They have strategies, and then, not think about in 2,045,

we're going to come to, and then in chunk of little, like, so, so it's difficult to we can pro-active to talk about the perubhanes because perubaniclim, requires 20, 30, 40, 40, 50, 50, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20,

and policy, and, and, and, and, and everything, that's going to be long-pickr. But, who's who's who's going to make for six-bun-to-de-depan? Yeah, right? And how I can be able to pick-pilie-lady? Right, right, or five years or what? It's hard.

But if in other, the institutions politic is dominant. Not a fragmentation, like we've seen, in some of the other to be more than more than 50 years to to the other than 50 years. Yes. Yes. So, that's from from the side of the policy, but...

No, not from politics, because. From the from the fundan, co. Oh, yeah. We don't want to talk politic, this. But I also look at the side of the the other, yeah, people who are execuosy, like, yeah. It's not even yet, like, that's like, in here,

so, so, like, so, so that's, so, I'm like, so you know, to danain with China, or you name it, like, Singapore, China. I'm okay, but, but, but, but, but, but, like, it's, it's...

It's... ...it, like, ...because, because he's not there, no, one, If you're not even two-year, right? But if you're from the world, can't even more than the same time, that's more than the same way,

that's the kind of systemic. Yes. And I'm thinking, because, what, I said, I'm just about, we're in venture capital, corporate venture capital, we just think about synergy,

what's what can do that's what we can't, okay, this is that we're just up, we're going to be able to be, like Bununi, kind, we always say, like we're saying,

but we're right the whiff, right, right. Yeah, not just to monging in the this, this, this, this, really, so, so, just, it's just,

then we're gonna be made in, got to. Now, that's, that, Yeah, that's in execution here, still, still, still, but I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that.

That's kind of agility that to be able to survive. But it's not that we can't be able to think to be a long-pant. Yeah, right? Yeah, I'm, I'm looking, that many techpreneur or entrepreneur to be ablengue, with short-termism.

Not because they're not because they're not capacity, but they're being ablengue, and fulous. That's the most structural. If in America, liquiditization of trillion-doulauilar, and they're, they're fund manager long, manager that VC, or the P.E., they're cyclos in two-three-tenths.

There's some of the cyclos 20-30-tahun. Apollary, tessies that's if it's great. Not as much, the thing, it's great. Yeah, right? At this, where there, there's no-lodan-a-cary-caring-certain, not-wust-un-un-a-oh.

Yeah, right. The people just in Medan, that, you know, and then I think that's systemic. That's, well, that's if it's been applied to be in the young people who are in BINAR, how for them can be able to think long-term?

Yeah, right? Okay, that's robotics, two, artificial intelligence. Three, genome sequencing. Do you have any views about genome sequencing. Tadal right, we've got to be social dilemma, how psychology, people can be re-caresaasas or manipulations.

Artificial intelligence, can, intinginges, can re-recayesa, otaccautas, or alteration, if genome sequencing, the inting, the intentaica our genetica. How that, to be combination

artificial intelligence and the power of genetics. Hmm. The banks can be more kentung, it's not, actually, yeah, actually, not be able to be.

The answer is, not going to be able to be. Again, we must be pentok then we're, then we're ready, so, so, so, so,

risk to plesetet-ne-ne-to-lessat-in-in-a-pessat-a-bosser. There's, but... ...bassar, not? For me, I see, it's, quite much more than... ...it's... ...that look at least... ...you're going to be...

...theidgawatt, like, you know, ...that we've been very struggling... ...doing these things, like, yeah? ...what the kindalal thing, say, yeah? ...kindalalang... When I was in the banking, like, to try to transform, but we're different.

Taddy, like, like, okay, we want invest in technology, the time, we've got back to the money, like, yeah, that, that's, it can, so, so,

so, it's, It's not just because they're trying to nimbun but still but to process. And it's like. Yeah. Apalegi, what's the other, people always resisted,

right, for, for, so, that, so much, and, um, digital transformation, to, this, like, lucu-now, it's, it's, it's about it's surro-berubberubh,

But but it's not even more than that's. Don't worry, I have many friends. I think about that's as simple, yeah. Yeah, atas I always say, help you team say to give training to transform, and when it's all the bottom, it's going to be innovation,

the atas it, because system is still, it's notep innovation of their, so, it's like there gap, That's one thing. And then, yeah, other, actually,

what, yeah, digital transformation, people, people, they're going to get pentaque, that's, they're going to let me ask you this.

The success of transformation, digital, that, is, is very correlations, Is it not so much of a person a person? Hmm.

If I say, is, it's, being vulnerable, yeah? 70%, 60%, 80%, 90%, 100%.

If I, 100%. I'm 100%. I think because, because it's because, I always say

like digital transformation to and from the small of the small things that maybe they're not being from nadim, just the matter of meeting, ma'am. So, Nadim, too, not'u'u' meeting. Nadim, if you're going to edit, yeah, this is it? No, it's all right. There's in book I, too.

Simple thing, you know, pa. Why meeting that's been? Simple, but, but, important. Because with meeting this, we have decision-making is very quick, you know, right? Yeah, sir.

Want meeting with BOD's just a month, you know, sir, yeah, ma'am. But, though, to decide, a lot of important, but because

they're in-the-court-in-in-in-all, after-in-in-pending, to-pending, to-pending. But even like, when we're meeting with him, yeah, sir, basically, must be in-guing them two-hour-telat, that's behavior that, you know, pa, at this thing, I just mer-merasaka-carang, like, that's just now.

When I'ma-n-n-kir-ggy-kir-gut, just, just, we're being,-bong, pa. And that's that's like that, this is a lot of, there's a lot of people, if we're gajun, it's,

we can't, a-gutus, a meeting. And then I must be waiting, two-hour, people, too,

because every 15 minutes every time, he'd be able to, Bapa, that's, that's about, that, people,

so, I'm being wrong. Now, we, we, we, we're waste so much money on that, you know, and, and, because, because, because of the problem meetinging, but decision-making process that, that D'Am-to-lawed-you-do, we're doing something, we're just, we need, we're just to decide something, let's, let's do-up, if we need to be able to, we need a little, we'll tell-fond-a-or-a-or-a-old, or we're-could,

because people not-sibupewmiting, so, cappan-pun-reachable. So, so simple that's really, that I'm quite shock culture when I'm going to corporate, and BWMN. That's the thing that's all the thing that's like that. I think it's a year. I think a year ago,

you know, it's about like BWMEN. It's been three years, I'm sorry, ma'am, not... But the purpose for you for you, just to move up to move up to beaum of the culture. Right, right. Yeah, right. So you stick to that.

And, and... And... ...and the... ...the most challenging for me, it's not to beawelling it, actually... Because in the time the second, I'm like,

why I'm not going to be... ...untal I'm not... ...the again I'm sorry... ...the... ...mohan-in, Pagita, ...I'm... ...I'm sorry, . ...I'm sorry,

...I'm ...I'm sorry, ...I'm sorry, ...I'm sure, blah... ...and I'm not wrong, If I was like that's like that I'm going to go about. Yeah, so that's, really, what, uh, challenge. But, also, I also, I'm also, like, like, like, the start-up is the most important,

there's really, there's things that we have balanced at the time-t-t-tenths, so-lough, so-lough, what other, the kind of transformation, is the other than a person's the other than the technology is the way of the technology is as a new-lainter-all technology is just as a new-labor,

and this, sir, Pat, Jati-Dirry, yeah. So, the company is a kind of because they just went trend. Yeah. When super app, When I'm going to say, I'm making super app, not? I think it's just.

It's just, yeah, right? And, first, it's just that's just. The second, they're, they're having to getty-diry. Purpose of their when founding founder is what, and then, they're super-app. That's the super-app. That's, really, that's actually.

One of the other than in the company, it's soly, though, to repurpose. Yeah, right? And, even I've got to repurpose, but in the the second it's not gampen to be able to align. Yeah. Yeah, and, and, mong, it, more gampen

than... Right, right. Yeah, right. And, and, and, and, And what's like to get a lot more than. That's, I think, that's really, team that's very important,

one other can't be able to be able to be. Yeah, and that I see from a person Nadim that I've learned that, he can put on the right in the place that in the time

that's right, that's right. That, that, that, that, that, and I'm, I'm, from the vision, like, like, visi-m,

Oh, Nadim, has not just... Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. D'in, sorry, he'll be omitted, Tres. Ms. Nadim. And then, like,

visi-missi, like, visi macy, just, on, on, on, on,

on, there, some, there's, there, upon, in the urinal. Yeah, right.

Right. I mean, like it's supposed to actually make you change. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but when I'm doing with Nadim,

that's not like that's the way, yeah. With example. By example. Yeah, that's right. Right, that's true, that's right, she's like gojerk, and he's like driver's,

like, the other can't get can't now, weekend, you can't, he can't, that he's gonna' and that's what, that's what,

what, that's, I think, I'm, I'm, when I was, to go-jack, but not it,

because, in cartuco, I'd be promoted, And then he had said, Nadim said, now, like, we have a driver, just 300. We're still call center based. He said, one day,

we can, maybe, we can't be able to live in every day, jutsaan people, and it really happened now, and... And mission accomplished. Yeah, and... So, when we're working, we're not just to live in it

but every day, but every day, but every day, like, like I'm making BINAR, like, student's I have had that some of the day, uh, every week,

he bolak-bolic Bogor, Jogga. That, you know, the goal in BINAR, it was like, the before, $1,000,

think it's just a million, don't ribu-a-gou-a-l-l-a-l-l-l-Ribu. Yes. I really would encourage you. That's cool, Cool, if you can't. Give me three years, love it.

Three years, yeah? Three years, yeah? No, I'll hold you to it. Eight years, it's ten-juta. Yeah. And, okay. The tech world, that,

in, you know, that's enough, that's a woman? Like you? Yeah. I've got to be a lot of representation. Do you think it's enough representation? Enough, well, see.

Enough, enough, but not. Enough, below. Yes, if you're going to other than, yeah, 50% from the number of people, so must have 50% at the Biner, the first, 10%

student of a woman, the year, the third, 30%, So when it's about 10%? When can't be 10%? Two years, two more years. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I think that's maybe more than 50%.

I don't know. Just have that feeling. But if in the calangon, that's in the, do you foresee women actually running 50% of the unicorns? Yes.

Because I'm in the other, they're who, who, who, who's not ever have notion that the way not in technology, that's... Why? Now, this is what I, actually, I'm not so-bye-in

with what's the women empowerment. Okay, explain. KATHLEEN KATHLEEN KORN-KADLIN-K. Sometimes, people are people who like not-per-cai-accaya, but, nanty, it's a good-you-you-a-you-you-you-you-a-. This is really, I'm really, I'm looking at the conference in Manila. It's easiest, one, one, the women,

the other one, the other than, then, like, there's, like, there's, what, they've got, like, women will be the next leader, and then,

and, like, the, it's, the gout-lucked, d'-lake-lake-dott-and-jad-died. This is zero-sum game, yeah? Yeah. So, so I think like if we're like this,

then, there's men empowerment, that. And you said that? Did you say that? You said that? You didn't say that? Okay. Okay. Okay.

So. So, yeah. So, and, for me, For me, more we can make like women empowerment, or like, like, makeot-can, we're, we're like, not piquot-kot-kot-can. But, now, the question is, why we're makingot-can-dick,

with we do that, like, and for me, I also, I'm also, I'm just, why, why, woman's come to plung to the technology, I said that technology, because I've got never put a new technology this is the way of the lucky-lake-lake-like.

As much we're going to it still, the more than people get into the generation-bawah, so, this, this is more there's a bigir-like, that this is the place that's like-lake-laki. So, if media, maybe, I'm just stop talking about it, because the more, because it's being the moment,

more than the notion that. So that's the concept of my, so, I'm like, role model, like, for women who are there that's other than, I don't even know-in-like, women come to be nar, but with present I,

they automatically, they're, that's just to be able to declare. You don't need to... Yes. Just your presence in itself. Yeah, right? Right, right?

Yes, beth. They're just looking, why, he can't, I'm just can. That's just, so that's what we're in people. So, stop, we're notaking woman,

get-in'-wattaking our own, as a woman. Because it's all of the in the in the world of the people, I used to the place that's the place the people, but I don't have the way of the way, so it's just just, it's not even

discriminations, not ever, how, not ever, but you know this feel better than most. Maybe, maybe, maybe,

the other unicorns that is in Indonesia, that's been in the pinpin or be found by a woman? Why not? Okay, why not, but realistic? How many years, five? Five years. If five, five,

five, 50% maybe, even even to be it. 10? 10, 10, um, 15, maybe, 15, maybe, in the time in the generation Z-Ir-15-year.

Okay, 15-tall, can 20-year. Okay, if there are many unicorns in Indonesia? I think more than 20. Too low. Yeah. If I can, why not 50? Yes, 50. Yeah, because it's more long,

And it's the more than great, right, and... ...and, okay, we're going to be the marketer, what's still that's not disrupting in Indonesia? Marketplace, has... Right sharing, transportation, has...

Travel, what? What? What? ...theirloven, to disrupts with digitalization. Energy? Okay. I like that.

Yeah, right? That's right. That's right. Sustainable. Mm-hmm. And then what? What else? I like,

real estate? Education, too, well, there's, yeah, no, don't say, no, yeah,

If I'm in real estate, well, it's been disruptors, in America, there are, there are some disruptors. There are many who don't have room in Indonesia. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I think that,

like, in complex I, like, a room is a lot of that's too, but there are so, it's a lot that not can't buy a room, it's, it's a bit

right, right, That's, if I'm right, to disrupcy. And then, intersection of the of the economy, insurances. Yeah.

That's not. It's not. To be a deseruptu Yeah, because I'm not like in the in the world peddickan,

if we think now, one of four people in Indonesia, can, And, education is related

with Gizzi, right? How much he wants to be able to think if Gizzi's not, that's not. Yeah. That's also the PR we also, and I think, if we're going to entrepreneur, maybe in 2004-5,

some entrepreneurs are social-praner, like, so, so there's no, not there, not there, of the world of the same, like a rise, like social entrepreneur, like, maybe one day,

you've got to be one day, it's just, no other than there's no better than that we're creating new ecosystem that, not disrupting, like. Yeah. Disruptcy, is, it's, and it can be done

maybe in 10-10-year-douan to the other than. Beyond then, there's no, no, no, Right, right? Yes, but it's right. Pangan, if I'm not just to disrupts.

It's not just in the hilly, not just, so there's price discovery that's changing for consumers, but in hululoo, so that's also, so that's more productive. In Singapore, it's been

pangangin, because no, there's there Yeah, they're 70% import food. Yeah, and yeah, they've got, bro, hydroponic, hydroponic, and, like, nursery for, uh, praircanan and, and, and stuff. Start-ups, sarapy, yeah, there's many who've been making udang, this, Now, it's not in Indonesia,

but we're research, with we're entrepreneurs, it's not going to be able to beaugh-bara, professor's where, PhDs where we're not. And the research, too, we're not, right, right,

from the penglontoran data for R&D, that's just in-bawarer from PDB, the other, Singapore and the other majoringer of Israel, that's 3-4%

from the pandemic. Right, right, research, we're like I've got to conferences in other, there are people academic, with entrepreneurs,

so, and we're there's, we're still there, not, not one community, and

this, why I think If you can coding in Indonesia is about 10, it's the power of stand, or the power of stand, that's massive in Indonesia. And that we can be with with the other, the other, that's made up much.

And I, to, look, maybe, economic equity, or geopolitical equity, that we can aspirational, that's in what we can't be in what, yeah, the menaughan our own, five to ten, yeah, yeah?

Mm-hmm. The winner of Oscar, the winning we'rea, yeah, right? Mm. So, it's broad-based, Don't even if you know as a man badminton or creative, can't be able to be what, but like India,

or like Korea-Slatan, or like China, or Japan, or like German or America-Sericcate. We're huge. Population the biggest number four, you? Yes, yes, yes. So if you know, yeah, I don't know if you're going to be able to be it, but if you can't even if it's a number of things,

it's a key to us, yeah. Because you're essentially in education. And an education that you're in broad-based, not verticalized. I think it's horizontalized. Okay, I'm going to ask a few rapid fire. If you're like, if you're in the next day, it's about in business what? Is it about business of a book or a job or in phone, or in the marketplace, or in climate change?

Well, the question is a little bit. I don't know, I keep thinking about this. Jualan book, marketplace, or... Or, you know, Jualan gadgets, or... ...meperbaiking sustainability,

that is climate change. I vote for sustainability. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Yeah, right. I'm really, because disruption

still, yeah. I'm also looking start-up, like explore sarap-sar-sar-sar-up at that, focus my now, yeah.

I can already been angel, but now like, ganti focus to the SDG, like, because

maybe, Not even more than people, but it will be able to be there. In the year? In fact, how do you have won't know, pick a word? I don't know. Pick at the word.

Lager, the process that's going to be Nobel. Five? Okay. I'd go with ten. Okay. I'm a bit more pessimistic,

so, sir. If you can't do you can't do you know, if you can't even 8-tawn, because that correlations to the correlations, if you're from Binaakadami that's 10,000 in 8-year-old, it's a lot broader than you think.

Yeah, yeah, right? The number of physicists, the number of, I don't know, astronomers, the number of bio-bo-phobiles, biologist, or molecular biologist, or geneticist, that's because it's all along, because if it's 10-juta, it's already lus from Binaar Academy in eight-year-old, it's like, it's a cool thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, the proportion of the social science than empirical science in 2004-5th, for S-1 in Indonesia. 30-70? Really? Yeah?

Okay, I would go with 50-50. Okay. I'd kind of, you know, pengine just. Empirical science is more, more korean, there's alasasan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, the last. How many women presidents? In the next 25 years. In Indonesia, sir, in other than in other than. It's... Do you know? 25 years? 25thal.

Five cycles. One or two. Okay. Consistent with the job of the other than the answer of the other than. Yeah. Did I miss anything? What?

What, yeah, sir? We're at the end of the session, but if you want to say anything, I'm my endgame. What's your endgame? Where do you see yourself in 2045? You've got upur 57? Step first, this is Indonesia, education in Indonesia.

Step two, I really, I think, there are in in the below-an-dunia that's very to have that's about what I'm like that's about the education, and I'm going to be in the world, like to, not just Indonesia, like that.

The last, I can see that. I can see that. Yeah. You know, I just, I gave a speech about global citizenship. Defined global citizenship. where people, like, like, not, not, not, no, not a lot of that.

I know that. But what would it take for, we all, to be able to be global citizens? Hmm. Because there's a kindalal of, yeah, right? Hmm. Hmm.

What are you, what? Condalalania? From... ...theircernal from... ... ... What's stopping anyone from becoming a global citizen? ... But more broad, like, because I'm thinking like,

um, in the world here's no one that's there. There's no, there's a lot in the country where, we want to be agamma, whatever, we're really, we're from source that's same, so, that's why we have to bea-beda-beda-can. And, and I'm more I'm going to be out-nogreoy, like, like the people, like Nepal, like the same.

Yeah. Yeah. But, buta ya, buddha, buddha, religion, religion, that's, yeah, from there, like, this, we're, from, from one place, but then, then,

then, then, then, and then, right, we're gnatak, gnataking, we can't, where, yeah, we can't be able, where, yeah, yeah, that's really. So, yeah, and goal is, pa, like, like, just live, what, what, not a happy life, but, like, yeah, life ascucup-ne.

Yeah, and, and, that, it's, it's, it's interrelated with, and that's not bachu yeah yeah so it's more more than

it's just cholesterol and right right right that's monkish yeah yeah

when we will not suffer, so yeah, we're like Hmong, but, um, to live as a-dhawadha and who's best be darma, which can't, that's enough for the end of my life. Cool.

Hey, on that note, Allah, thank you very. Sama, Pa, Gita. It's been fascinating. Thank you, thank you, Thank you, ma'am. Yeah. Yeah.

That's allah founder of Binar Kermi. Thank you. This is Endgame.