Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Alfatih Timur: Saling Menjaga Dengan Teknologi

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

Dengan pemanfaatan teknologi, Alfatih Timur bersama dengan teman-teman di Kitabisa.com dapat dibilang berhasil men-supercharge budaya gotong royong Indonesia untuk membantu orang dan membukakan kesempatan dengan skala yang luar biasa. Dengan makin banyaknya gerakan mulia yang berhasil diinisiasi lewat platform ini, pintu-pintu mana lagi yang dapat dibuka dan didemokratisasi aksesnya dengan kekuatan crowdfunding dan fundraising?

when the policymaker exposure that's more and exposure that's more than exposure that's not only to talk to up, but also to how social media can be a lot to to hear,

the sound, idea, innovation, if this is more social media that's, it's, there's, the government,

and then, more sensitive, and so, in making a a putusan, if there's one of we can't backaughan this I'm a lot of

social fabric, or tenun our country, which is also we're with the smangat gotong royong. Our friend our Al-Fatih Timur, or who's more to know as Timi, to see this asate-banks that's-a-pankan-a-harmes that's-oing-a-ta-ternalay-harmes.

With the money, Timmy with the with the TiberaBissau, can't be able to supercharge asset this to help people and make upcaken an example with scale that's awesome.

In episode this, we'll hear about the perjalanitititit.com from the first and start. Cerecting about various garracan mulia that were actually

initiatiatiatiatiatiati through platform and the end up again can be boughed and democratization access with the powerfunding. Enjoy this episode. This is the endgame.

I'm from Al-Fatih Timur, or Timi, as a co-founder of from Kitabisa. Timi, thank you, Mr. We can come in our acara. Thank you, Mr. We're honored. Good. I want to ask about the perjalan of your life, as I'm doing with the Narasumber. Tell you, day,

He was at 9.9th, the time 27 December. December. So, since that, until now, how about the story? Yeah, exactly. In fact, in Bukki, King, Pat. And, I've been pined up into different

areas, SD in Pai-Nan, SMP, in Agam, Lubbuk-Basung, SMA, BADC, and then at Padang. I'm at home-u-Tuas-A-Sat-A-Qaeda. I'm going to PNS in the DINASC so they'd beind-pinded-Aira. Okay. Docta?

Dr. Doctor, doctor, who's the doctor who's in Jakarta, but when, when it was a person who's been made up to the area. And he was going to be able to be in Puskesma, the Hormasakir Hormasakia Dharahsakia, and then, finally, the government of the area. So, so.

Yeah, so, then, SMA in one Padang, yeah, in there, I, I, I'm actually, it's one of one of one that's one that's quite bad too, because I was some of the time I'm going to be a class Acceleration that was just two years, and, and, as far, it, like, what, yeah, kind of, I feel like to bully.

Because when that, uh, uh, uh, the ucturl's my little bit more small, kind of, kind of a little bit more than people. But there's a positive way, you're just a bit more, just two-tahuelly and then, so, and then, so, one of the SMA. And there's a life-changing moment, too, in SMA, because

there had a time of friends that's enough acrab, intimate, and, yeah, when, class of school, and then to runaugh to Jakarta. When about to U.I. Okay. Why to U.I? Um,

maybe, yeah, maybe, yeah, school in there, yeah, school in there, yeah, yeah,

but, but, but I'm but after, actually, and I'm actually, I was quite like

interested with economics, business, that's about, so much, do you know, dagang, small, like, you know, book, books tofell, and I'm doing MLM, too, and I've been doing MLM,

because it was happening in Sumatra, Bah, oh, this, I just say, no, no, no, no, just, no, no, exactly. But it's interesting, because at MLM, I'm still, I still, I'm still I've got to give two books

that's quite that's good the magic of thinking big, and Dale Carnegie, how to win France and influence people. That's kind of two book wazep for salesmen, so that's self-confidence, and it's just to be able to go out with people. Who's who pushed you

to learn English in this Dini? Not, specifically, not there, actually, I was, read the book of translation, well, English.

Okay, okay. translate. Yeah, and from there, I'm from there's going to get how to get in the other communication, because when in the USM not much to work, so, actually,

then, MESSO. Or has been to Jakarta, or have been to Jakarta, before school in Jakarta? I've, spent, some, some, it's been a lot of the first,

the last, that's the last because I just visit visit and, can be able to call culture shock, because when I was in cost-koshan, not got to get ashrama. Because if at ashram, like, from Minang,

so, it's still hot, but if this, at Barel, at Balikreau, at that at U.I. And, what, and, with, from, from, from, back, from, I'm getting, because, I'm getting, but,

SMA's 70, 100, 100, because in Padang, at the same 10, 15, so, there's a lot of the SMP, SMP, 150, that, yeah, that's a sonora, that. But, al-a-a-lidlawed it just-challenge me to know-to-to-allang from people from other from other latar-belak-a-buck. And it's... Goudre, and...

...and, it's... ...and, yeah, it's interesting, what, So because of the campus, because of the campus is melting pot from different, uh, latar-belakang, and when I was in the middle-uped-anyard-plagued, I'm back to do,

because in the SMA, I even even just can't go to rohuis, so, rohani Islam. So, the other than is to be bat-as-as-study-a-just because we're just to get-eared, so when we're going to get-eared, when I was joined a lot of penitiaan, for ketchup to people,

and while even when that actually performance not good, it's not good, I get to see people from different backgrounds, and exposure that's actually that's actually that's really that was really, to get to,

to get understanding, more. Okay, there are episodes episodes that's interesting activities in other class?

Maybe at the at school, BEM is very much more my life I'm because maybe if in SMA, I learned academic, be able to learn there business. At BEM, I'm doing ideal, to beaughan idealism, like,

yeah. So I saw book Madilog, Tan Malaka, can't say, idealism is the camewomenal that's the that only, that only, that's been made people, that's...

Lankal? Lank, right. And, when the student was, we can, for be able to beaith, idealist, and yeah, just, just, just about, I've been mimed. And I'm enummed, three-tahuncta-pacultas-economy.

So I'm in the division of Kastrat, when I was in the Cajian Strategic. So that's the division social-politic. So, like, like, who think of kajian, and I go demo. And then, one time the last, in act, prop, action, and propaganda. So, it's, it's about the world social-politic, In there, there I've got to meet many seniors who had had because of the grelisahsha, because of the

mahal, yeah, really. Ideal, and... And, in there, I also, I'm learning, what, like, like, the people or the people that, it's be great because the people besuble, but the people are because the people are sourer. So, the task our is to create

sound-su-su-sura, so that the people are going to be And because of the because of the get get get get get to the and I'm not much of the time. So, I'm going to get back. Oh, I'm going to move in 2009. Oh, yeah, 2001. Yeah, 2001.

Wow, not, if you're minding in Senile, 99, 7, 4, 6,000. So I think, um, 8-t-town, you know, not, no, no, no, it. Maybe, we were at the money trade, too, ma'am. Oh, wow, okay.

Not the same, memory in my own of my own country, but, but, but, I can be like to be Pell, Monas, Istana. And to be honest, what was that, well, it was, it's much by emotions, and we're making, but maybe not, not very deep, but I enjoy the moment.

So that's a chapter that's interesting when I see the people, have a bigelisah, and be great, so simple that. That's one chapter that's interesting, and chapter other than, But it's also about the social, because the BAM, it's,

there's been many activities to the land, activities social. And I also amagumi Muhammad Yunus, the winner of Nobel Programming Bank. And he said that I was that I remember, a person academic or intellectual, that's not only be methammed, just to motlead reality from up,

but also, but also, it's caching, he said. to down to down to bring up and that's tingyangyang, and when people BAMM, like that's like that doggmahs like that. Don't just look at the Kemp, to come back to the other and it's like a packet-lapagabang, so I've got to come to come back.

That I enjoy, you, Pha, moment, moment. Because I, I'm using alma mater, it's been subsidized with someone. It's also, that's just to turn. It's been called to make up to do social entrepreneurship. When you're still school or after-lulles? Yeah, so I'm not... First I heard social enterprise,

actually, maybe, from internet, and that's also, after lullos, I, Pae. So, after lullos, I joined with Prof. Your friend, you, you, Puyah. And, he was just an assistant, I'm about two-tahuner, doing a lot of research, if he wants to make a seminar or to make a book.

And, at that, he was just really I've made book about social entrepreneurship. So I've seen reset and benchmarking, social enterprise in other countries, in Indonesia, and in there I've got to some of the other people of inspiration in Indonesia, like, Bambang Ismawand, Bina Suadaya, then, Haji, Mastilkoto, and many

many local heroes who make social projects inspiring. In there, I'm learning models and that's inspiration. Okay. And then how that process start-up's there. There pitfalls, yeah? Beasance, that's part of the play-set to the right,

but was it smooth? This is we can, sir, sir, yeah, sir? Yeah. Yeah, I think... You can't... You're lulles in 2011, after, yeah? Okay, two-tawn,

then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, Start-start-up. That's a lot of pay-faults. And, actually, can be able to, the first-being-the-old-old-belidlinger, like a start-up.

We don't think this as a startup, because we didn't familiar, yeah, start-up. And we're doing over the weekend, and help with many, people, volunteers, and, and the idea was just But that was just a social enterprise, activist,

who had had a idea social, but not have donations. It's not so it's hard to get resources. And in the time that we're in a lot of people who want to help but not know how channel that effective and trusted. Now, from there, the hypothesis is we make a platform, to help people who are people who have people who have gotasan and who have resources. Two years, we can't have been there,

almost there's got growth, like, that's almost stagnated, platoing, like we're not to really build a platform. Because background, I'm not background IT, but I'm enjoying the moment to be really, to go-belled with the community, activists, to top-pintu-one-one-and if we can't talk to the campaigns campaigned many-a-sysuas-sua, so there's There who's who makes a public-to-franes network just, ma'am. One of one that's that's viral was, 2013, there's a school that's a Nakhsala in the depok,

the Mastit Terminal, that was in gusur. That's up, it's up and then it's down again. So, if there's momentum-driven. So if no momentum, no fund-lacing. Now, two-town, there, no, there was there's a pitfall, the first one, that's something we're stagnated for so long.

What would stop you from wanting to give up? Um... In a person, if you've been stagnant for two-taxed-do-sook, you can, wasing, and how... Right. Actually, as far realistic,

I can still still still in Prof. So, I'm notary still... There's safety net. There's safety net. Yeah, but... So that, so I'm going to explore there, but there's moment I'm going to put out for full-time, and that's quite a hard time,

but I don't know, I'm going to feel enjoy just, yeah, every get-temous with people who have projects of great, and it's going to get up, energy, because our job is to enable the change makers. Heroin it's not we can't,

but the hero of the campaigner this, we're called, and if I'm from, until now, I've got people who's got down to whatever, want to come to people, not even, and the other. It's energy is nular, and we're very

being a jambatant, so, for them to be able to charge, that if I'm to turn to be charged to recharge, to get charged again. Wow.

You've got you've been under sumbangan from of a lot of institutions, and then, and then, there's been deployed, 10 or a thousand causes or groups.

That, if I've beeninged, with social entrepreneurship in the in the countries and the major-major, the example, America, that's, if I look, the, can, almost 2% from PDB. That's about 500 million dollars per year-gifting,

or whatever that is-sumbangsic-kind for the importance social or social-garis-miring politic. Yeah, right? So, if we're going on endgame, this can, this, upside prospecting, is, is more-biasa. If we're going to be a new-deran,

it's like, gifting, it's, two percent of PDB, two percent of the PDB, 2% of PDB is more than $20 million in Indonesia. Now, how do you know, if you look like that, potency to that, or even you've been thinking, can be more from that? Yeah, if in Indonesia, there's studies about Zakat, specifically,

Patensi Zakat that's a rations of a trillion, and 2018, we've even surveyed with Charity Eight Foundation as a world-generous, most generous country. And we can, we can makele it's just as a, because we're very much more than cloud wisdom. Because we as a platform, we're open for anyone,

for galang-dana, for cases, or issues, apopun. And we look up-rising that, actually, which is the fact of, of the other than optimist, pa, for the future. Because I'm not as a platform crowdfunding in the world, they're, they can be able to donor retention,

like, like, who are back again, not as big if in Indonesia. Yeah. Because if in Indonesia, traffic we're on every day on June. Jumat, spiked. Right, right, now, even, right, 3.

And repeat, repeat, donors' is, I'm going to repeat donors. And the most interesting, now, 3, 30 to 6 p.g. SEDCA Sugao. And that's every day. So, I'm that's the part of the energy that makes us make us

I interview donors that, "'Mas, I'm $2,000 "'s every day, because I'm going to "'emone my day's like a good one. "'If she's not with a sedecah, "'like there's a little, like, "'and it's simple, like, "'It's simple, right, like,

"'It's like, or he's like, "'A-pac-up-up-up-a-application, we can, "'we can. "'A-oh. like, yeah, if I have a problem, I can't, and I'm just be very sure, because, can't, because of the people when you look at social media, insecure,

because of the other people are more good. But if we look at, maybe, we're getting, we're just being, and we're back to down-only tension, we've got to do not only tension, we've got behavior that, people are repeatedly giving.

Just how we just to take trust and transparency. Yeah. Uh-huhubilitans, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's curious just, spending behavior for marketplace, that's about in the night or at the day or in the day? If for gifting or donor behavior, it's,

time 4, 30, until 6, 8.5 p. If people at the marketplace, the studying is how much? In the day, in the morning, day, or night day? I'm not know data periscis, but if I'm going to go about with with the people e-commerce, it's during break, lunch time, or...

Okay. Or, kind, if, if, weekend, can, you're all, so it's going to be around. So, like, it's actually actively in the internet shopping, yeah, but I make me wrong. So, okay, this, this, this, this, this, if I see, this,

You have disrupted to have conventional wisdom that's already and if we're going to come on conventional wisdom that's also unfortunately or fortunately, the government, who's making lontor can do notherty for the interests social, right?

That's how, to to make a casimbangen of the success that can be derived by platform digital like you, in the banding system of the government that's there. Because, the people are we payer pachyx here, with hope that this can be glontor for the of the importance of the health,

and other social causes. This is also. Yeah. So like, maybe, first, what we can't like as a passir, if you're like, if you're being, if you're not being, even non-profit, if it's got in, it's a big, but it's more, if it's about government power.

And, actually, if there's, it's, even, they want to, they're not, not even, they're not, not really, obsolete, and we can, to be honest, we can, to be honest, this is that's not-safety-net.

And one day, maybe we can't be, not even if we can't pay in a home of the sick, have galang-dana, and this is last hope, and we can be last hope. This course is also in US, by day, platform, like we can be said, this is symptomatic, which is true, but it's, but it's about people who

who are the people who are not assurances and land-and-and-and-al-danner but that we can't even if we can't even if, if, if, if, if, if, maybe, technology, can make make it, so, from the Paginted Pajacken, from the input of the Pajax, and output development,

or, uh, I'm a big fan of UBI, I want to pick your brand on that aspect. I can. Because I'm thinking, UBI, it's saderhanna, so, like, you know, So it's really, well,

we're just to distribute just and then we're justlysmouthsion to people who are not able, they can't even know what they're with wisdom of their own. They know what they're doing detail, the government, and I'm thinking that

technology that can be it can be, yeah, then distribution, distribution social, distribution of, distribution of carean to be very

and very transparent. Because input is input is clear, output is all, and everyone's enigmatic. So what do you think, Pat, about UBI? If you think, this is UBI, or universal basic income,

this is being technologists that's very big and, and, in-baling, them in the rancul concept

UBI, it's, they've got to be about robotization. Yeah, right? And robotization is not in the platform they're so they're not too concerned with the payeran with level that's high

because, at the end of the workerawain will be more, can, will be more, and that we're not too, we have to be aty-at-a-at-at in there. And, just because this is by people who are more

more important for their own but it's at the expense of the society-loas. Because if we look, wage or gage or compensation that has been correlates productivity. Now, this we have to know that

productivity of Indonesia, it's $24,000 per-of-one that level that, I think, much more than than Singapore, in $17,000. Now, we have to do we have to make upay

our productivity, this is how, not we're just to If we're just not topang with the productivity, it's the mustiness. Yeah, right? Yeah, if this is a-gradualized, okay, okay, but if from level A to A multiplied with two,

three, or four, that if, if I'm not too, and I'm still and I'm that technologists technologists this is to make

robotization with a scale and it will dislocation the peradayan the number of capital not the amount

so they're not too concerned with with the compensation that's but that's the sameoling, but it's just as welliempanked with the importance of

to make up to make up productivity. And we have to know that productivity we're still very And that's put a political will from government too, yeah, because that can push technolog to give a tax for the UBI, to be UBI, has the POMERENT.

And, and, what, what we have to know, that's the ratio wages to profit, that's 2-bonding 1. Yeah, right? Now, it's already be a bit of a 1st-a-half than 1. And we also have to know that profit or portion of profit

this is shared by the number of the other than than even more than than before, even more than than it. And, yeah, we have to try the samebanks. If it's a good, but implementation it's really, but we must make sure that redistribusity

that's okay and the productivity is okay. But if you want to talk about redistribusity of the ratio this is making more than and the senjavan is making up, not only in the country bekembang like Indonesia, but in the country like America, the United States, and and the United States.

Digital dictatorship, yeah, said, ma'am. Right, but too. And, yeah, digital dictatorship, can, has really been manipulation psychology, so it's more

much to socialization concept. But we also can use, what, that's the concept is the most the same thing is the most

the same thing that's the world, not only the same thing, corporation or individual. I agree, so, so how this is it's being imbanging with productivity, the amongan and institutions? Just,

it's actually the idea wealth distribution is an interesting, because of them make them make sure what they want to make them do with the data to be. What other than the idea that is about the mothers who are in their own that's actually is a work that, maybe they're being given to beaicent,

and other people who are in the other, that with the basic income, they also can have got a gaijee, even they don't have in the road of the economy that's been taken now. So, it's still, I'm still I'm just like, wow, exciting. Because in one side, it's discussion about AI,

like, about wealth accumulation to the other than the delinitur of the people, and it's not possible there digital dictatorship, but, but in the other, there's waccana ethics, what's, what's the other, and what's going to be the same-arangan, even, even there's like, there's a agenda, like, Elon Musk, said with UBI. Oh, he's the most of the important.

Because he was one of the most one of the most of the most able to be able to bea robotics and autonomy. Just to look at, maybe, commitment to redistribute wealth in it. And if I see, system pajack is an instrument that the most can make-stimustible

to the state of the state-traffraan. Okay, okay, la, la, UBI is one. But if, if I'm not the system pajac, That's what's the most of the redistribusies of and this, you can, you know, I'ma'amor, I'm saying reverse Robin Hood. So, the, isgenangu, is certainly, cermine from...

tolack-belack-backing from Robin Hood. If Robin Hood, that's, can, the miskin, then, and then, to give-bagy-bagy to the people-misskin. But, the ratio-gini, this is making more who's more than is kind of a more miskin relatively and disproportionately.

And that, if I'm nothered it's, so the one's the only way to structure system of the pachyatibusisor this is optimal, so that's the bottom of the pyramid, it's be able to be able to more. And that's, if it's if it's more, and that's if it's more than, more than, more than,

social, in the long-pansans but, the biggiacan in the country maju and also in the country bebeang that's very very or to co-optation by the power of oligarch to,

to not do not be the the lawy-lobis that's that's in the back to social entrepreneurship. Activities lobby in the Noges in the Gnaramajou, it's, it's been as a social or social enterprise. Super-pire. And that, if, I'm not concerning, right? And how technologists, technologists

and corporations, that's really being with embel-emble. Sumang, for the importance of the human rights asazy manucia, or for the importance of the climate, or for the importance, non-perubhaniqlim. Yeah, that's how, that, from the in the other, as a social entrepreneur. If I'm sorry, I'm looking at the social entrepreneurship,

that's, it's the thing that's for humanity, for the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the kind of, and that's curious, panang of you.

curious, how you're curious, how I'm curious, how I'm going to, past, I'm going to research, there's a lot of social entrepreneurship, there's a lot of, if I'm sorry, Ashoka Foundation, has British Council, from the most extreme, that, the structure of the public of the law of the US,

if not I'm, there's, there, B-Corp for Benefit Corporation, specific, that, but, the, but, the back, the, There's also that's actually that's mission driven, or like, or like, it's like, they have a mission that's also social enterprise.

So, many people who say, LB&B is social enterprise, not have Patagonia, or Tom Shoes, like pure social, that's called social enterprise. So, spectrum, and quadlacons, and, and, if I, personally,

maybe, maybe, in the middle, in the context, in the United actually, there's been there's a badan-hook-cust for social enterprise that's the first thing. Why the organization accessed at the first place? And how impact that's the result

and maybe, then, the other people who are the people who are that from there, can, it's like, to bea-pihackan, the big-pihackan, that's what we can do

by the way that's the body of where? Pediccan, care, or natural disasters, or what? So if we were able to, because of projects maasysa, it's many projects projects, project, activities, like, project campus, like,

but in 2018, 2019, there's one category that that's not much more than it's so that's, although, although, it's about it's not, it's about the way of the way of the health. But, user,

who, like, I'm like, I'm going to get, my, my, my, my, my, my, and from, we're going, and from,

organic, organically, ma. Because, from the way to the way we can be like, maybe some kind of, like, for people who had been the time of the money of the same, and that's also moment that's

emotional, like, because we're because we're about a couple of times we're to come to come to like, if at the room's sick, it's, can, if the decision-um, billing of the same day, update every day, and that's like life line of the people who's got to be paid,

and I've been to come to a room's acit and it's like to be able to be able to be with very hot, by peluk with a patient, because he said, I'm going to get donations, it's really, it's really, can be billing

of the hospital's of my child's because if not can't beayor, ventilator is just like that. That's like that, it's, it's, it's, we have to focus, to help our people who need that's the cost of the life and death situation.

Now, from there, growing significantly, now medics number one. Number two, I think, about religious type of campaign. The three, humanity or disaster, and then, they're also, the other people who are rising like, like, hewant, that's like,

cat feeder, or... and houses, for the other, shelter, shelter, that's happening, now. Okay, let's speak on this one by one. To be one. We're going to with a mosque, okay.

Angupe-la, there's 1,000 in Indonesia. That's if each solace jubat, that memang per meschit just, 100,000 ruby. Not just too flamboyan, 100 million,000 per meschit, that's 1,000 for 1,000 meschit per month, 400 million,

per year, it's more, more. Yeah. That's... It's... ...indah, can, if it's be... ...theircould, with transparency, accountability, ...that's just...

And I don't know, that's one of the verticals? Yeah, yeah. Vertical is untouchable? Yeah, so it's very interesting, and there's been a lot of in the people who've got to beaacquit-can, like, yeah, smangat, this. Absolutely, Right, like that's right

because of the benefit for the environment that's the best of the people that's the best of the people. The same of the mosque, like in Joggi, Joghāya, Jogalian, and other than that. There are, like, in Joghya, Jogalayan, and then, he's made up to geta, miskin,

and then he's comeulking, and he's got to provide, like, asurances, the same, in between them, such that. If I'm like, So it's actually, we facilitate as a organic. So it's actually,

if there's a lot of it, we facilitate it. But, it's really, but to, what, you know, but to be mindful, because this is something that's a kind of community-based and bottom-up, we also not want as metameter, make technology, can be used to use people,

and other than, there is wisdom and ethical from the Dewan Cummugural Masjit and other than other than we have we have to be used to research more than what is the but if we're going to be able to bearticcule, it's a bit more than from, maybe from the road map or anything can be applied to Nasrani,

sure, Buddha, Hindu and many, right, right. Yeah, so I'm, I've got to some of the DQM, the Dewan Kumakmouran Maschid, that's actually safety net, the the Tentatatat Maschid. And that's what you said,

indah, right, like, so, if you're going to be in the masjit, because there's a data for bread, and other. And it's been much of the lapangan. So I'm also, if not the MAH, DEMI,

DeWan Maschid is just two or three of the world that the one that'sidnaided by the by the people. Because the more, if it's a talkdown, government that's making maschit. In Indonesia, the people who are making massacists. Giro, and it's there, actually.

And how can manage it with good. This I'm going to wringinging some disrupts or innovation that disruptive, which the most in the most of the blockchain. I'm looking how blockchain it's very be able to be able to to make sure, transparency,

of two, decentralized, three, accountability, galis-mereing, recourse. If you're going to the mosque, he's yumbang, I want to know, that's only the power of the money that's mullied

for renovations toilet that there, or the Pemlian or the Pemalian to umat there for them to learn about coding, not to bachal Quran just. But if, it's really,

can, it's inbue, can, can't be the same jayyre in the abat the 18, from the abat the 13, Abbasia, or Abbasid, how they can combine between wahue and akal, or revelations and science. Now that, okay, and I'm sure that if it's not that's

the same way that's in zip code, they're inbting, they're inbonged to a cotak, or lewap-hap-in-hap-newap-in-plat-plat-plat-plat-plat-a-lap-a-lap-a-lap-a-lap-a-lap. Then, tis-a-lapurant, the one-sand-it, two-san for this, two-sand-it, three-and-it, it's, it's just, it's just, it's a lot of sal-l-l-l-l-all. to zip code, zip code, or the other than. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, Masjid, it's actually not only for the but to be able to beaicant in the city. That's interesting, and, and,

if, if, if, if that's actually, instrument to convert Mustahik, to be Muzaki, from the time, so it's not able to be able to be able to,

and if in a, if in a community, there's accumulation of the social, and then, one's one's using muzaki, the money, and the other than, more than more. I think, I think, as a concept, is very, but it's a challenge is quite

and it's gottong-rooyang. Yeah. Many, from the Dement Maschid and from the community. Now, if this, I've got many times I've gone about guru, or quality of guru, that has to be taken, in a significant.

There's not, there's sumbang, for the importance of the quality of the guru through platform you? Unfortunately, not many, so, if we can, rata-rata-rata-a-rata for infrastructure, to build,

school, and I'm giving book, and I'm and I'm not. I'm still bet bet upon that's only, okay, But prasarana lundak, that's important, so important.

And the quality of guru, is correlates with quality of the murid, right? You can okay, because of the quality of the ajaran that you have alami. Yeah, right? And, and, mayhank in the area that maybe the quality of

the ajaran is not as high like what you've alami. That, if it's if you're able to be able to through platform, how that's how to try-in' to help quality of guru in the area the perpencil? Yeah. Or, the recruitan guru, if there, there's not there who's quality.

That, if I'm not quite impactful. What do you think? I agree, and I think that's PR our, So the dilemma in the world crowdfunding, sometimes, things that structural and substantial, it's as a more than emotional, it's more.

Meanwhile, if the emotional and uigensisies tingi, symptomatic, not substance. So, maybe, medics number 1, and education, number 45. But that's the task of how to emas

how to emas issues of the things that's more than it's more demand-driven. Okay. So far, this is more demand-driven? Okay. Mook-notic-notes-demeaned to create through platform you, sir.

Donors' did, you, sir, demand vertical. You create the new vertical. So you're creating verticals. This, this is actually untapped. This we're trying, create. there, there's been made for bantoo, to recruit

who's the best in the Desa Manah? Yeah. Now, if you, not know, that's too experimental or...? No, I think, actually, without we have to start, there's been some people who've been in, we can't be, like,

like, all the murid, all guru, SMSG, M. Najila Shihab, yeah, he'll make for the program, empowerment, Ruby, Indonesia, make, we can do we can,

but maybe, if we're perspective, what we can, maybe structural, like, more systematic, if now, now, there's much, there's projects,

there are many, sectors, I think, the first, the education, religion,

and, or healthcare. And I can look at the lingquan. Yeah. How can we can't make up peckon that's more than the way we can be more than what, what, yeah,

the time of climate. Now that, that's, there, is there? Yeah. There are some, like, Nikola Saputra, for Nagaland Dane,

Luzer, Taman Luser in Ache, Nadine, had made, so many of them. So, some, far, campaign-driven, project-based, there's been, there, sir. Okay. Okay. So, how's the way, we can't. We can.

So, this, so, so, the, we're going to design a new, so, This is the same-shawa-saling-jaga. So, this is a feature-bought-product-bara-to-wee.

So, it's a good-that-it-all-it-to-can-know, it's one way, we can, we're one way, we're going to be able to people. But, with saling-jaga, we, we also can be able to help people, people, we can also be able to be able to be able to be reciprocally. So it's a reciprocal. So if it was a goton royonged-yactive,

ibarat-naut-a-is-a-so-do-to-do-to-be, it's a preventive. So before the other thing something, we'll get in money, and gumpuling donations, in the other-nagued, mutual aid, mutual help, but this,

but in our society, we've been, jimpit, udunan, arisen, u-s, I'm casem, if they're like goceng goceng in base camp, making cairngan. Nant if there's a child that's from there.

If you're going to be used, it's just collectivism. That's our asset, and, but Buhata, said in democracy, we say, the indianicry society, is a collectiveism.

And we make make it as a solution to help people, without having to give the donations there. So, because plot funding is one way, if you're two-way. Now, how technics? So, so, the same-jave-it-it-old-old-old-a-tas-a-larsed, but the donation-and-a-larses-and-a-lars-as-a-lach-a-cas-a-lach-a-cass.

And, now, al-hm-dhally, there are $650,000, the people who have got-sad-s-old. they have a salary of $10,000,000 dollars, there's $9 million, and when there's one person who's sick, that's all of the people, they've got to cut the saldo of the same rata. Let's say there are 500, sir,

there's one person who's, there's a $50,000. He claimed, we verifyification, document is valid, at that moment, 500,000 people, it's per-purned saldowns of $10. So, so that's just got $50 million. And it's automatically, we've made system.

So this is it like Gautong Royong, digital. Or in sharia, it's called ta'un, to long, and new, the other, the good. So this is we're excited, because this is an evalcuit of crowdfunding. From, from the tithing net for class hope, for people, but this, this, before it's been able to be able to, because it's alling to, so far,

We have to help. So far, respond is good. Many of the people who join, the needn't know to join, I'm doing for the sedekah, he's more than $20,000,000, but it's up to help. But, it's not,

and for the people we can't talk bala. So, when he's deduq, so, if they're also, if we need, and we can't, and we make mechanism with transparent and and many.

This is where? In the way do you draw the line, where do you stop? If you take, if there's a problem, agarer one of the one of the people who they want to do that, he can get money, they can get money, is that something you still will do? Or facilitation? Yes.

Borderer is, actually, gifting the government, sir, so, we've got community guidelines. and what's just what's about what and other than what are under the other than and we're in three-month-scar, and that's about audits and we as a lot of the other than we asan also in audit.

Okay, if there's a person from 600,000 of people, he will be a warring? Oh, okay, okay, okay. Will you do it? Okay, so this context is the same thing. So that's the same for two things. One, critical illness, the person who's people who are people,

so who can't COVID-positive, can't be... That's the kind of, or the paraturaan that's from the government? That's the keybidia can. So, because, saling-jaga, this is the fact is like a bank-cass. Uang-Kas-Petka-Pet-Pet-Pet

specific the reason to help the same agotas when the same person and COVID. So, if for other, we have to make a new cash new, again, and that's consent of donors, and donors have to know, when they join, this is for what? Okay, so it's not a cututup the

not to-punquinane, but too, if for the penning entrepreneurship, yes, right, yeah, right, long as well, about the result of how, and so much. Yes,

okay. And, then, this, this, this, can't be here, Yes, right? Yeah, yeah. Tell us how about.

Yeah, actually, the ideas of cooperation, right, Pai, and now, maybe some credit union has done that, but if we're, we think, we're going to focus to the stifatness, to, what,

the things that's the public is insecure, so the basic, so, like, like, of the health, COVID, so that's trust, to goton-rooyong,

as far as transparent. Now, once habit's had been to be built-case other, it's just as it's all that's pull-pull-l-l-l-l-l-like, and this, user-generated, I'm back,

one day, the, there, there, two, insecurity, and social bond. What, what's,

what we're going to what we're Two things, if there's pool that can go to rotoyong, that's and the people have organized it as a natural, you can, make communities, and then, arisen, if there are what, why, now, with technology, it's also can be making can't.

So, miscellar, like, a partungan, if there are the case of the calaccaan, community, what, or staff at coffee shop that have risk of recital-tent-tent-to. So, it's very facilitation, so, okay, and this transparency and accountability is key,

I'm going to be able to be able to be able to be-mayanahed or to beaulahed to beauchas for something that's more than more mulea? That's what you have done or think about to make sure

to make sure that that's a very valid question, that's what that makes I not tidied. That should keep you awake. Yes, yes. Amana, that's notar-bara.

That's, that's, there are two things, Maybe, crowdfunding, if you're going to donate this, yeah, we're two-touching donations, how the way to be able to amang-can the money-asheracaract,

with a scaleable, can be growing, but also secure, so we can be able to be four layers, four lapis, verifications. The first is verifications identity every one who galang-dana have K-YC,

like Fintech, The second, the other's about the documents of the document of the health of the case that we review by the team trust and safety in the team internal we're. Then, if he's chayered can posting in the could be able to get on what

for what, there updates. Donathe was access, so if you can look, if it's got, it's been in the data-divis, transparent. And the fourth, is public report. So, public,

if there's something that's that can click, they can't because, because it's community's who's in and know information information, this, we're doing italyca-and-that-all-in-tall-in-to-all-in-tall-in-tall-in-a-lac-lac-lacquate. And if there's something that with community guidelines, we usually hold campaign-in-a-comethue, then, it can be alhickan theanan

or, we're back to donaturn. Donations. So, that we also, we invite public, to keep on the other, if there's penguels of the other. That's for crowdfunding. If for Saling Jaga, the thing, what's the interesting, the other, if people need to help one,

yes, there's a potential moral hazard. Yeah, yeah, oh, just, I'm going to be a bit more than you. But what's interesting, because we can't the community, he is published as a penerima-manfaat. So at the moment, today, he had got the data, will be published, sooters know that's the other than the social control,

and that's actually the social control, and if there's fraud, that's a lot of that's quite that's quite well, that's important, social control. But, at that, if people are making up-and-vancers, we still have verifications, we've validated, COVID-niquet-niquet-leases, so, there's, there,

internal prevention, and also external check from the community's okay, like, the system reporting is changi very, but as a changi-chang-chang-i. System, if it's, it's just, it's just be-a-al-a-al-a-al-a-l-a-l-l.

Even the two-oan, it's just be-a-al-acal-a-cali. So, it's it's like it's to bea-professional and, how to make-eagued the system? Because this is important for scalability platform you're right. Now, okay, like, it's about a lot of thousands of million,

but I see this is potentially to menhous and trillions, there are, right, for the importance of the scale that's big, that's big, that's really, if really, can be partangu-jav-can

as a institutional, not by TIMI do'am. Yeah, right. And Timmie, is not. And Timmy, you can't, yeah, can't be able to be able to be able to how much to be it. Sure. So if, yeah, if you're going to institution,

it's, there's check-and-balances in the world, personal, yeah. And it's actually the function of the and the company audits, and we're also co-line-contest, with commensos. If we audit, we also publish the report of our own in the year and you'rea-asan,

can look operational costs and other. And, if this is a challenge that's interesting, if in the other-negrie, some mutual aid or mutual help, already, yeah. So,

haven't, not, but if, be able to be popularity blockchain is more than decentralization and recourse or accountability. That's, if I think, to think, to think, at least, if not be taken care about, if not beckonement. And then, okay,

this, this, I'm seeing that, can't come up much, this platform this. And if success stories, this is more and it's just enough and now, and people can, if you're going to be activities, to make some of the social, it's at the end-to-dozing that's

to be... ...percraying. And that, if, I'm not-bri-biasa, potensiness. And how, how... of the people, if you're in the way that if you're saying that's the government is still there's a catarbatan in the clontoran

data for the penitings social, it gives you a long life line. Yeah. Yeah, right? What do you think? That's the question. The other. But the garish is where,

that's demarcation, or or mediation, or mediation or mediation with non-profit? Yeah. So, my point, yeah, the point in Pat Gita, the first is, how, with,

with, if, government, also, to make allocations the data social, and we can be able to be able to be able. Yeah, I'm sorry, There's been a lot of the context of the clonter of the social that's a bit of up to be part of the job of it. So, so my society is more, ah, maybe I'm going to go go to be swastah just.

This, I've got statement, and this we're just, we're just for one perak to buy pencil, one peric for this, it, that. Yeah. If, if, now, stills, but I'm up, but up this is making up this is more matang in

in organizing the same, or in a swastas civil society, because, you know, collectivism of the people who are in the world that's all around, without to go up down. Now, if this is more matang, it should be a more, it would be a do-down,

and, too, the guy-gay-gay-gay-gay-n-up, up, you know, especially if with technology, it's it's just the dashboard just, just right, and it's transparent. And, now, like, yeah, initiatives, what, data, big data, in government, also,

the other, you know, to make that, but I'm just with, what weasdom that of the community, that's actually, it's just, for the top-down,

that, that, And then for-profit and non-profit, how we can't for-profit or non-profit, that's dilemma- too, though. Yeah. So, yeah, this when I made we can't first time, it's actually, the first one, not even the law-harm of the lawful. We're nebeng in the room of the abound. 2014, we did yajasan.

2015, we did p.t. Because of that one of the other than I still remember, if I'm going to make a social enterprise, the napasas has to be a long. This is a marathon. We have to make it's sustainability. And from there, we've also we've learned about how

crowdfunding platform in the other country can survive, and one of the one of the administration, as much, and that's the other. And that we're also, that we can't. And we're looking it,

it's like double bottom line just, So that's, because for to comeonsos, in the commensos, also the permission is in the yayasan. And if donations, if we can't give us in the way of the but P.T. we can, it's the technology that. And it's going to have

a good, and the other yayasan and P. Yayasan is audited, P. And this is one ecosystem, yeah, maybe, can be the social enterprise, even from the definition, too, so much less. I see, is a democratic. democratic,

the sameat the lembagan is just. And it's been partanguanguptan-jave-can. And this, not really, like, like, like, both-do-and-be-sank as long as the

of the lembagan's, it's clear, and it's just and it's part-gown-jav-jav-in-jav- . So, back to accountability, and measurability and responsibility.

Now that, if you're, you know, it's going to make make up to make a scalability. Now, that's scalability is, if I'm the opportunity of the cost of, maybe, the of the other,

the domain domain line that's making, activity social. Yeah. And okay, back to inclusion to the inclusion of money,

inclusion of money is more than than other in Asia, in Asia-Tengara, which has been been cappedy-98% yeah, right? If I'm in my opinion

to make up against inclusion to from 50% to, succour-sucur, to 90% because it's still many people in the people in the Desa that not have

access to re-tening, have access to the model. Unbankable, that. Yeah. So, it's important It's important to make surean. How about?

Agree? But, I think we can't, because we're going to social and charity, though, because that's a very big audacious goal. And many of the fintech also have been that's even directly we contribute to the other because of the financial literacy in context of transaction digital.

But if from the focus, it's not to be there. Now we're still in crowdfunding and protection. Yeah, crowdfunding is to make upinclusive to money. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe specifically, cloud funding is the sort of lending or equity, probably, you know, borrowing lending. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's not to ATM or to cabang. No. The thing, it's the access to model. That is inclusion to the money. Just true, the more important access to the Reckoning, not access to Reckoning, not have money,

yeah, right, right. Yeah, right. Because, even, crowdfunding, based, lending based, equity-based. Yeah. So, the two last one of one one thing is important for democratization inclusion of the money.

But if we can focus on the most of donation-based. And this, if I think, that's just for all of the people. Yeah, right? Platform that can be able to be able to be able to be able to and the people who can be able to be able to bemanfate-can. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I'm looking for the kentingan pedigants, I can't. Cobra, I'm going to gali again. What you can you can do? What you can do? Because I can argue that, inclusi-euanguang is social costs.

Yeah, right? It's a social cost. It's a social cost. Because it's to make up to increase status social, that it was subsistence, and then, so level with the other than

than other than is more than more than it's a social cost. And the education is a social cost. I think if the most recent, BASISO, sir, sir, sir, sir, scholarship. So, although, even if it's still ad hoc, so, like,

so, like, people are people who make pool of fun in, so if we could, like, and downment, like, that's kind of, for the very elite, you, who can make, what, William Fulbright,

scholarship, but, But now, in WeiPASISA, people who can pull-offan for BASISWA. So, there's one influencer named Adid Insomnia, he's got to be able to, because he's not to do not, he made $130,000 from the friends Twitter.

And then, he said, "'Ey-shawa can't pay UKT, "'Uang Kulia T, like, "'Shipa. "'So who's crowdsource just, "'missive form. "'I can't, I can't, "'it's, I can't.

And it's like, that's kind of, you know, that's just, you know, just, we can just make just we're just-cat, this, sir, yeah, with, because they're looking,

not only UK. even I've got to get people who can't buy formular, not, formular, UTIBK, UJAN, TULIS, but there's, there's many people

people who are people who can't buy there, there's who can't help people to help people to buy So if you're about crowd wisdom, case-per-case, but really little,

with what's the pain points that are in the people, oh, not can't buy UKT, oh, not can't buy formula, that's that's, that's how we see social changes, like, from wisdom from crowd, what's, what's the important? Because, I back again,

I think, the solution, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, People are you can't think what's what's the and that's the up asoomsy, it's like this. Now, when we can enable them to be able

to be able to be able to doleys and to make it's a greative is a lot-biasa, and that's something that's celebratable, if we can't, so like, there's like, like, that's t'tokers,

who, like, entertainment, sometimes can be social, like that. And for Gen Z, it's interesting. K-poppers, pa. Digitabers, one of the biggest community

for donation. So they're merriacan day of their, what's their, like, one of the other one of the one, they make fund-lacing

for pantiesuhan, making for, it's a hundred-and-gut-dut-roup-a-lou-a-loules. because community is quite, right? And again, this is cloud-based wisdom that we can't detect at allalely. But because we open, we can bea-bearing and it's about, we're gagged,

that they have had ideas, idea that creative, that's. Okay, you're, activism social is the way-brae-law-biasa. If, when to 2045, in Indonesia, What is what we can do? What, what, yeah?

Social structure, we're doing well. Wow. With the power of activism social anda. Oh, this is really, but one, yeah? No, we're not all right, we're going to be in Indonesia? No, yeah. 24, yeah, 24, 24th. You will be 54.

You will be 54. Still still more than 50s. I'm still, I'm still with the same kind of asset collectivism that, sir, sir, so, so, the rasa, gotong-rooyonged,

to be a very much something concrete and out-bursed in economy, especially, maybe, Mimpi Bunghata,

cooperation, that we have we have, and with technology, with all, But exactly like what? I must have much, but not even, but it's not much,

I'm going to be that's asset we're and not many of the national, collective and communalism, that's, as well, it's just something that's something that's interesting, that's,

it's maybe, it's like social fiction, fiction, like, ficts social, that output, out-outputs, it's, you know, either, UBI, that's, I'm going to be able to maybe,

maybe, I know, yeah, I think, yeah, sir, singularity and, it's happening, yeah. Five-Town,

ten-town, that's not, it's, to be agenda together, it's, that, that's,

the structure social we're to anticipation and has to be be placrary as soon as can. If we're cohesi social, we're quite so I'm quite, I believe, and we're going to

to the second year this with singolingolan of the of the other that we're

that we're compact, even, Even the other, in what I've seen in Europe and other, in Europe just in the time of 40-year-one, in the war in World War I and 2, that's 120, you're not that's not so.

We're just more this. Now, this, if I'm in my opinion, our social, we're that's our big, or genome, social, our own-bias-cai-a-gay. But how, how to usher, to be the structure of the social, our better than we're more

better than more more heathed, more even more whatever, it's a little bit more than that's not being I'm going to try gilick, this,

activism social you, you're active still, in this in the context social. This is how to

for us to be able to bidet for help to be able to be safe, more compact, and, and, how much? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because in 2004-5, I'm imagine, generation digital, can, yeah, I think, and they're

I'm more than exposure digital is high, that's referensinesses that's been more more than if I'm more than, I'm more than I'm optimistic, sir, sir. So, when policy makers have exposure that more more, and exposure that's exposure that not only about to talk to, but also to be above, how social media can also

be a lot to make up to make uprisis, the sound, idea, innovation, if this is more social media can't make sure, so that's the way that's more sensitive, and so much more bigiag in making a, and if,

why, because, something, the social control is quite, so I'm making it, check-and-balances is more so that process this will be made the more than the dynamics, it's a dynamica.

If you were, if you were, if you were, if now with social media, with hashtag just, you can be, can be able to be – this is what I'm optimistic

about how the government can make can create a pro, because social control is You know, democracy is going to be a different?

The way we're democratization, demarcation, and democratization, yeah. I have a think of a bit more than, maybe, actually, one of the DPR as a CERMASA as a CREMAS that, the SOUARA DEMOS and Kratos,

that's, we're assuming that can crystallize what is what's about the people. But that's a assumption, sir. It's a bit of potong. Detached. There are some people who are really, but there are detached,

like what we've said. But how we can hear the sound of the people that really, but really, this is a bit more so, so it's a,

so it's, technology, because even now, even technology understands us more, the more, than we're than we. So I'm back-being mechanism of the decision, or in the way of the current, can, public hearing, or, or to turn to the society,

it's one day, can be digitalization, can be crystallized, so, so the data points are it's clear. But this, like, democracy or autocracy,

If I'm, after this, I think, I think, what's the kind of, what I'm going to, or false binary, that we're going to or that, not be able to combination

of the two-doin. If we're going to talk to, think, that's allotocracy, not democracy, but what's indah,

in the program reformation in the time in 2008-79, he's been done democratization talent or talenta, yeah, can, d'bating the time of the time of the time of the selection talenta, it's been based patronasse, client-patron relationship,

the time predecessor of Denk shopping. But, since Denk shopping, it's really, qualified, that's if that's if that's quite democratic. Yeah, right? Just true, ironists' on the other hand, in context of democracy,

it's in a few of a number of a country, it's had been democratization talenta, where the people or pencelection talenta, it's more based on patronasse. Not based on meritocracy. meritocracy. Yeah, right?

That's, if we're harnute, in a situation that binary or binary, it's false, if we're in myr. We have more to make up and institutional building. And institutional building, this is in the social structure, yeah. That, if,

I'm more like if it really, and then really, and it's from political party, too, maybe, sir, yeah. Dimmolpun. I'm not going to talk politic, but I'm going to come back in structure social. Structure social, that is

must make-depanting with totality, that's the end-to-o-jum-y, if we're even more democracy, it will be in in the smanget and the speed and

scale we can democratization talent, that's right. That's not merit, not patronasse. Yeah, right? In some of the people, it's the selection of people

to, you want to, mon-ma'amph, non-merit. That, if, I'm grogoti. Not only democracy, but the structure social we're so we're more appreciatesi concept like that, that's like,

That's, if I think, for the generation millennial and Z, to the to the next to the next to you know, if I'm going to back to activism social and that? Yeah. Yeah, it's... Yeah, it's... ...what I'm not as far as I'm thinking, though.

This, if you're going to be a lot more... ...emonged, but it's... But this is... Yeah, yeah. If you're like, this is more-biasa prospecting to the and you've got to be recant, make a jacquesquehance, just scalability, can't.

Scalability, this, can be recabangue to where, but if I'm not that, cabang this can't make structure social. And structure social, this will be built by whatever you're doing in vertical, whatever, more than, health,

and things, this is all right-mases. If you can pick one topic to be the focus and priority, what is what is what is it? Pendidica. I see, I see,

must totalitance. And, and our education, we really, must think about the quality of the and okay-la, if there's a student who needs to school, it's really to be able to.

But if he's been able to, then he's to school, the gurus is still mediocre. He's not can compete, with the other than the other than the other than in the other country. And it's very much

and this empirics in the productivity that's at level 24,000 per-or-per-a-a-a-a-a-a-pott-a-pappen on a PPP-appi-appended basis, I'm being... I always use Singapore because, he, really, really, ...sudadal building, with a scale and the speedan that's great-pastan that's quite

so, he's just... ...it only, because, ...because, because, the people are the people here, means that's not that's not too kental, in the pencellation. Yeah, maybe because there's patronasse, they're making select people who are people who are more better than social scientists.

It's just to be. But this is a great-bursed, if I'm not saying. Interesting. Now, okay, back to Kitabisa. Five years from today, where do you see Kitabes? Where do you see that we can't be? This is, if we're in the team, we're saying we're saying that's gotong royoong,

the siphotting-ro-yonged, that's the way, we can facilitate the people, not only to help other, but also, it can be helped. So, so at lapang, to help, so at the hard, it's still, to be able. So, we can be, not only only only, platform for what's not as a

but solidarity, but solidarity. Solidarity is two-a-pa-ya. Solidarity. Saling-jaga. So, I think, I think, Thailand is saring-jaga. And we're just about about collectivism.

Because we got-ro-ro-yonged when there's something that's urgent, so, if you're going to get COVID, that's, that's an amazing, there's been that, there's an up or something in the pagas, there's kind of collectivism that that's all right.

If it's been a security net for the security, for the community, and, talking unity is quite, because if you're talking that, if there's that's

people who are puttong it, it's on the people that's to putton the to help us some and we're and we're

seeing many stories stories that that's hardu to be able to to the United. That's what we're making our fund funding as platform donation that, inshallah

will be sure to keep trust and amana the community, that we'll keep in the same way can be a solution for the people, that's just that's that's that's in the internationalization

in five years? In fact, we can, two years Two years ago, we've been in Malaysia, we're called Kittafan. We partner with local partner. And, in the same segment market is a bit so we're going to be able to

some of the United States, we can apply for in Malaysia. Isha, has the platform has been South East Asia, or even from today or even pan-Asia, or global? Yeah, inshawallah, Godwill.

That's tempting, that's what we're that's interesting, that's what we're exploring, but if now, I'm still focused for Indonesia, at least. In five years. Even in five times. Okay.

Yeah, because we're deep to the market that we've also understand, because once this this really, really, more solid, applicable, but we don't know market. I think Indonesia, Malaysia, Malaysia,

is still similar. But I think Thailand, Vietnam, totally different markets. To Myanmar. Many of what are you going to be in there? I agree, for Rohingya, and other. Penangent, if we want to pick, but we need to pick focus, focus, too.

Ten-town? And hopefully, hopefully. At the time, we can be better than the name again, called in Myanmar, what's your end-game? Let me ask you. Last question. What's your end game?

Personal, or we can, Pesional and we can? If we can, I think, It's like it's about facilitation collectivism of the people, how gotong, can digital, and be a solution for many of things.

And I, see, I'm dedications to work and the energy because for we can, I'm following that mission, so... There's a lot of temptation for this, this, this, but I also, I also think we can't connect the dot to looking forward, forward, like, like this, but looking it backwards.

We've got to know, t'uhawned the door that, turned to not dogged, so, for me. So, for me, I'm focused with the Bisa, I'm embodied with the mission, and let's see how it goes, this, where, this, and people say, when start-up, like,

it's foggy, but, it's very know, but you don't really know, it's, it's where, it's going to, keep, keep, keep experimenting, and keep surviving, we're even more than we survive, for the other than we live in our mission. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Timmie, from we can't. Thank you. Endgame is a podcast by the School of Government and Public Policy Indonesia. The first Indonesian policy school to offer a full-time master's program in English.

in English and is a production of the cinema Indonesia's award-winning entertainment and technology company. Oni Jamhari and Angad Wima Sassonko are our executive producers. Ahmad Zaki Habibi and Jimmy Kuntoro are our supervising producers. Hannah Humaira and Farah Abida are producers. Bobby Zarqasi is our director. Aditya Dema Pratama is our director of photography. Video editing by Felicia Wira Sarasantao Alvin Pradana Susanto is our sound engineer.

Ratri Pratiwi Pratiwi Paratiwati are research assistants. Aulia Septiadi and Ferdizal Optama are our graphic designers. Transcriptions and translations by Isfi Afiani. The song you're hearing is by Neil Giuliarso, Ferdinan Chandra and Philippus Chahadi, mixed and produced by Gibran Wiriwaiwan. The production of this episode adheres closely to the local authorities' health and safety protocols.