Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Arif Havas Oegroseno: Laut dan Pesisir - Jati Diri Indonesia yang Sejati

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Join Endgame Town Hall 2025 bersama Gita Wirjawan, Bagus Muljadi, dan bintang tamu lainnya:Tom Lembong, ⁠Marty Natalegawa, ⁠Maudy Ayunda, ⁠Mahfud MD, ⁠Rocky Gerung, ⁠Agus Harimurti Yudhoyono (AHY), ⁠Iyas Lawrence, ⁠Andini Effendi, ⁠Husein Ja’far Al Hadar (Habib Ja’far), ⁠Aishah Prastowo, ⁠Angga Sasongko, dan masih banyak lagi!20 September, di Kartika Expo, Balai Kartini, JakartaBeli tiketnya sekarang: bit.ly/EGTH-TicketsAtau jadi bagian pergerakan intelektual ini:https://sgpp.me/endgametownhall-partn...---------------------Baca buku saya, 'What It Takes: Southeast Asia’, sekarang di:https://sgpp.me/what-it-takes-ytatau di Periplus: https://sgpp.me/what-it-takes-periplus---------------------Dalam episode ini, Wamenlu Arif Havas Oegroseno membahas defisit pemahaman dunia tentang kelautan dan kepesisiran, serta bagaimana Indonesia bisa berperan dalam mengubah hal itu.#Endgame #GitaWirjawan #ArifHavasOegroseno---------------------Episode lain yang mungkin Anda sukai:https://youtu.be/3wCuoHKkmiwhttps://youtu.be/YdDLsEPbMzohttps://youtu.be/nP4So_ga3kw

Indonesia is a great a great a great an example. I'll give an example. Forang, if you're doing for a ponderangang, can, unung two, right? Now, then there's a boon, there's a swallown, there's, there's, there's awan, there. There's a songynawana, not a lot, can.

Yeah, right. That's a negatim, and agraris. Ben-er. This many of not sadar. When we're on, we're decad. We're just a decade, we're from But we're not from colonialization

because international law that is international law that is international the internationality of the panjubljana. We're, before Belanda, yeah, before colonization of the we're not, we're very strong. They're going to

find product of the plantia, which is spices, agro-industry, It's done in Indonesia. Hello, I'm here today. We're in a good time back to beaughas

Ugroseno, as I'moakil MENTRI, Lournegri, Republic Indonesia. Bro, Hafas, thank you very. Yes,

same, thank you. I want to talk about about the life, L'U, Chil,

where, to get Pueue and then, to Dipponegoro, and then Harvard. I'm I'm

I'm I'm back um ashm SD SMP SMA municipality Semarang

but the dad is from Kepumann I'm from Surabaya

they're they're in UGM then then we all stay in Samarang that

the Pemda Pemannesi PNES in the area, so we're just, weas just the other than us in outskirts, that's the samearang, it's the water, so I'm playing it in the swamahed, in the water, man and if you know, in the swingy.

And if the plazard of biology, SMB, I don't even I'm not so much, I'm just going to doggisken to try ular in, in, in the, in the swah or in the sungue. To pluratin, for practicum, for kodok, that fast-a-dha-a-gut-a-h-h-hawah, so I'm going to bea-u-sah-a-lars-d, to bea-plas-d-d-lash-as-d-a-pah-kawak to school. Because, yeah, past-pas-an, when it was-a-st-a-old-a. So, I still,

I'm still from the same I'm from the way that's blue, we're drop in the room Eang, then they're working, and then they did work at home,

that I'm, I'm to, I'm, while I'm, while brought thermos asylene. I'm in I'm in school. The termos

the color color of the listarry. Five pera. I'm not even though. Shalmae, five bichy, two of five per centaur, from the 70s. So, okay. So, okay, yeah, so on. Leyen, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to buy.

I'm going to buy the oilingia. That's, you know, from, um, what, uh, uh, perusiaan, the time of the termination Eyang. Yeah, uh, usahlein, usah, a becha, so. So, so to go to the secalah, sometimes, sometimes, na' tucac, tullusation, Lestari. Cicca

Lus Lus Luskirin, the person that's Lestari also. But that give me confidence from from

the small money to do you have to there, from the business and even

even though the margin maybe who had also there's there yeah

but that but it even even even didjjian mandir with

my Ibu. The power is very strong. The other than the other than the armarhum. Mom, it, worked, in the industry, apothekker, from UGM. Aya, at the Pemnedah. Yeah, two-day, two-day, yeah, two-day-day-upon-purnedikan that's good, and also, and also,

that's that's had to have you've got to after I wasa. Trenata, I was from little, I was living in the world that's

the woman her work all. The mother from the dad in Kepumen that he

was a room and the time. The same kind he's carcum, he's around the country with a

spedda and then the mother also you're in the mailman, that's not the people, ma'amah, that's work, then the other, adi-adikina,

the mom, who's, too, work. So, from the case, I'm even looking, maybe I'm not long-ung, yeah, there emancipation, that equality

in, in the, in the, uh, bekerja, between the woman, that's, that's not,

sadal, that, to induce by, practice that around the people around about about you? If you're about about? I'm going to make sure.

He's the way that. Yeah, it's like to plea. So, so it's, but say, it's the same, the wordin,

yeah, like rotan, so. So, if not, not, yeah, to getjejejeer, that,

then, then, then, then, I've got to doodoo. I'm always always um,

what's the time the other than she, not too so. So, math, it was very

important for her. So that's that's the , be, be ajarackan that way that,

even when I want to say, I'm going to get biter-a-amats, I, then. And,

to be pornography. Yeah. I'mal. Facultas-sucum I'm not even though. Huh? Why? So, because of the

because because, because, not, because this I'm, so I don't know yeah,

the, you know, the, you know, but at my time, that, when, at sema,

I, did, yeah, we, we're, there, I'm what's

at least I'm like that's more people more better than I'm maybe more than I'm going to have been planning

life, so that yeah when you first in the yeah yeah

there's there so so so faculty economy undip

facultas hukuk undip because then you can do do you can do

we can we'll we we'll we we politic, the undip,

um, and economy, but majority of the people, when not economy, political, so,

when I was seeing the public, I'm not get to be that's economy, I'm not too

too. Too, no, not, not did get riddening in UGM, not

get paid, not term, I'm, I'm not get taken, I'm, I'm getting

some stuff, I'm, I'ma. I remember five. He'd be able to say, this time. This is why,

you know, because you're going to be through the Fulat's Fulcum? Oh, yeah. Back back. Campus again. Oh, I'm going to be taken.

So, it'sasar. That. Aso, Undip, can? Asu, Und,

I'm privileged. Because... Yeah, Not that's a lot of the Knaz. Because one of one one of the Ullahna, it's, he was a friend of

organization Karate. Mentan-Mentry. Yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, so if I'm notal, yeah, so... So, I'm notal, really.

You're not at all? Oh, no. So the yearnesee B, so. So, if you know, if I'm not sure, I'm going to say, I'm going to be, 1.9. P.

Last year. Semester the two. But if you, correlation, that, to Karer. Semester the two, IP's, if not wrong,

got, got, that's all, you know, Marha, Ma'amoladi, can. Nankal,

no. That's, badung-mug- -a- in, what, what, the,

what, the, did, the, , to get, , by,

You've got to say, because you've got to make up. No, you know, you're going to be able to make sure. It's a semester three, four to a zero. Asick. So, six, four tomm. Oh, so much. Master of the five, two. Onester the second from the situation.

If you were, if you're going to be mara, I guess, belechers, if not, not leger. And so on the 3rd and then after 3rdasal, we have to specialization what, that's being on, we're being on, we're abysa, at that time, can, yeah, life without planning, like,

we're, we must have to be what, and, and discussion with the friends, there's one tabang that not many who's not many who amil, that, because there's a factor, other than the book is this isa English. Dossain

Dossainterbang Professor Budi and Professor Kuhlman from U-PAT and from U.I. It's just a single one so, the isulani the DOSA who they were going to

go and then they, but they're going to so, it's, so it's, I'm going to lookin'nationally this. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh, than that's wrong with that's

it's just about that. So, so we'll learn to doorm international that was the attraction, that was, and when that was

there, they were on DBS, direct broadcasting satellite. So, many

people, rammer, make satellite, yeah, can, using satellite as with a suburb communication.

So if you recall, palapa, right? So those were the time, launching palapar. But there's one tantal that's notarantan hucum.

That's satellite that's bentonial. So if the country like Indonesia, he'd want to knowerkan to get

to Indonesia with a model of the model, to Malaysia, to get to legal implications, or vice versa.

That's just So it's a legal topic that's really interesting So I'm about the sea Not so much law of the sea So much, um, so general international law

Then then specifically And the Hucumudera Because that's exotic, yeah There's many people Uhle of Wondara That even now I don't know, I'm going to put in again but not

I think we're not much I guess and referentsy we're in McGill University in Canada that's experting there

so that's international lullus so with specialization of the kumudera yeah

and in 2008 6 I'm then then then then

then then so so Want to where? You know, so. So, so that's going to comment you, no.

No, so I'm going to apply. I mean, I'll just I'd write to about 100 in Jakarta, right? Take, when they're

to get, the right, that's, that's, that's, that's two. One,

one, the business logistics in Jakarta, one like Caltechs. Okay. And in Caltechs, too, wavansara in Jakarta.

They were quite happy. And then, they were waulderahe. Okay. Now, problem is, they're, they want to work in Caltex,

but in Rumbai, to go unruisie, from their work asing. I'm not going to. I don't know. I'm not going to do you know what I'm going to doomsy. So,

so I'm notola. But, salary-wise, I was making it, two-juta, three-juta, yeah. Two-jutor-t, three-jut-tah. In fact,

year, yeah, year, that's big-old, yeah, that's nine-two, two-coma-tou, yeah, so that's a lot of money,

that's a lot of money, that. In Sumatra, while while while he gives us yeah, yeah,

I give you time about two months to decide and when that it was fancy

because from from Rumbai we, we know we can't take the

private jet now, we're doing people people yeah, in the year

in 80 nine So I've done that. I've done that. So this was long time, I'm going to. Now, then we're going to, I'm deciding, while I'm deciding, while I'm deciding,

if I'm going to be, yeah, can't, try with friends, gomobrol, gout, I'm going to, I see in Majela Dinding, in the Faculty of Hucum, there's been a PRL, program, right now,

the Department of the world with the same. And with the firsteratting administration about 25 persaratan, like to that. Dachari

people who are yeah, that's, that's, because, soot this, soot this, soot this is,

soot in front moumumann , while bachel, while grundle, that what, what, the department,

this, the, And in the back there's more than you later, you're down there's daftaraja, I'm going to be. This is, bro. I don't have to have got to be it. There's been a lot of the R.T. L.W.S. Too much, I said.

I said, because of the time from from the faculty of the law, Faculty of the Economics, and FISIP, to include Bavancara because of bauvincera because of bauldutte up to date. Wow. From Jakarta, the campus. And,

and the next thing, they'll be able to dolewantara. Sementary, I'm going to dolewantara, there's not. Oh, that's the demand there, there's supply.

Yeah. So, so, that besotally, well-up, you know, well-ad-a-bishop the discussion, you know, about two ambassadors and Ambassador, Pat Dubais Islamat-Kournamo, and Pardubes-Bahmah, bin Hadirja. I'm asking us, I'm asking us,

I'm asking, that's why we're asking, motivation, yeah, we want to abdi-negade the country, that's right? I was that's about that's about that's about that's about sorry, if you're not there's probably, you're not, do you know, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're doing capacity. Yeah, crossing in life, you never know.

Wow. Yeah. Consequential. It's very consequential. From gomel in the front of major dinding, that's there's prohuladi, who actually, Iwantara and

goate through through through until after it's just to remember and there are two surat and I'm sorry I'm concerned what you

perdebat can with the people who so so that was still still still time time

we're time and we're we're always we're we're puttanking argumentation we're

that that I'm that which of course very stupid and I think I the

people the dubous that the Duttaan, that's the statement's not good good. So, so you're not, pa, motivation. Yeah, if I'm going to be able to be, pa,

the way of the United States, I'm going to beaumor-timur, because I'm in terms of all. I'm not going to. You know what? Yeah, I said what, ma'am, ma'am. So that was the story. The balls, no brains. Yes.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not so sure, yeah. I'm not so sure, too, yeah. Also, there's one who's still that, but, after it's been

it, then, it's been, then, there's two surat, one of the Kaltex asking yes or no, that's,

that's, it's, the Department of the other country. And, when the consultations with

the, people, They have they're Asawebatea Asa, I'm saying, you're like, Re, Le, that's, you're going to get back.

That's like, if you're going to be able to be it, that's when a job, you're not, you know, this one of the other-negrie.

That's, so, Moms are always right. Yeah, so I follow Mams' advice. So, So you turned out okay, man.

That's goodlyla. Then you're going to beaugh-lawful-lawful. Well, actually. I was in L'Apon-6, right. I'm going to go ahead and then. Then, out-negris. To Harvard, baru, 91.

Yeah. Lus 9-2, yeah? That's also another story. Now, how about? Yeah, because when, you know, when at campus, what's the campus, what's down, yeah?

Climate change, bro. So, there's one matter of the class key for school out of the language, the language, I'm going to beaicrous. I'm going to day.

Lullo, I applied to Harvard, right? He'd say, what is wrong with you? you have D&E. You dare to apply to Harvard Law School. They're not saying.

So, argumentation of my sister-in, because I got to make a program from KMQU. And before weavancara, if now, it's different, if you're going to go. If you're going to go to Ivy League

or any university, you write a some paper, like, Gacy. Yeah. Well, they're coming. Recruitter, too, that's still,

sometimes. Not even, sometimes, yeah. So they came to Jakarta, that KMQ, P.

P. P. When that, Dore, Kee, we're going to school in course in

English, and my total was 647. Oh, great. So I argue, yeah, but now 647, so I'm willing to work very hard. Oh, that's the time I'm more or less. Just trying to settle myself, right?

Yeah. So. Masso. Masso. I got accepted in Harvard and Columbia. Yale, the lot of application. That's it. Why, Harvard,

Columbia? Yeah, it's the best law school in the world. At least at that time. It's less to say. Now, I mean, the other thing, I'm going to say. Okay.

And then, that pivot to ocean is what? So, so, so, so when did secdily, when you, in school, there's two people that really inspired me. That I can't say they're as a

ideological father and mother. So, Pa Hashem, Sam, Samuetti. I see. Yeah. Pa As a, what, what, the negotiator, is a living negotiator. that was close yeah yeah that's about the mahtar there's has some goody but from the city of the same isaacadamii there's there propheti august in unpart so

belio belio it's made umbericum in secdilu peddickan so i was so inspired because what they're it's quite shocking from the law of the and also our identity as a nation because

because there's I'm looking that Indonesia is a country maritime that agraris so so

we're we're we we're actually before Belanda yeah Before colonialism of the United, we're in the world, we're in a lot of your podcast, Ahali, Macea Phaite, if not the wrong, it's...

Harold van der Leyen. Yeah, so he's been able to, belio, there's only bribute, that in Majapite, they can't make sure, the carapal, and even in the world maritime, and even, and even this needs to be checked. There research that's not going to say that, the capal capal our by the carapal

by the same but this is some discussion but still speculative yeah but in any case this is one of the

and another evidence that there is in Borough Budur can what name the pathan capal that which

is a record of our history but But in Jajah, they were the Jazeera, they're in fact that's spices. And after they fully control Indonesia, not only spices, sawhid, coffee, cacao, that's all. Palakou. That's all. Palak, that's all. Sohout, foreign products, not as well asphraika.

Right from Africa, from Latin America. So, so in industrial, agro-industry, it's done in Indonesia. So at that time, the name name, the land, or the plabuan, only tools to export.

That's it. Yeah. So that's it. Yeah. So, that's it. developed the the world

if we can if we can let's like again after the time it was in the same

the way so as well the land so that there and then it goes to educations

yeah can school school school school school school

SMK Pertan that that it's more than SMK

or school the even if you go higher vocation if you go to university as well program program that there

but not so massive that expansion plabuan also also before you're

not the number the number what 3 million or so Summlae the petanee over 30,000 over 30 million.

So that's about 40 million. Exactly. But either way, it's in that number, right? If you're not. And, also there's some some perception,

yeah, that's the hard, so hard, so hard, risky. In the data, not.

In the water, it's not. Plus, of course, many mythos, can, in the the lot of the other than there's also many myths that are in, which actually is true if you look at the event the Greek mythology. There is also the myth coming from the ocean. And then the so-called history of the Atlantis.

All these different things around the world. This is it going to make up to make a paradigm? Yeah, yeah, very much. Because this link very much with Submah Moodah. Because if we look, because if we're looking, we're going to, Yeah, different ethnicity, different religions, different kingdoms,

and sultans, you know, when before meredica, that's many elements elements in our country we're, that, which, yeah, which, yeah, the uniting factor is, only one, the Jeeja, Belanda. And even if you look at the fundamental principles of international law, the real estate of the waylaiator, the way of Indonesia that is the way of Indonesia that is by the law enforcement international, the name is principle uti posidateous juris,

which is, the jajah, mawakily the Jazeachianne. So, by international law is like that. So,

one of the people in terms of territory, the law, international. But in terms of psychology,

identity, yeah, subh, and subhap young, if we look very careful, from the same

umpahsumpahed like that's inundasia it's the least spoken language which is the word people jahua like we are humbled we have to be humbled

to learn new language because I see see in many countries that majority language to not want if it's not made jadegation language the second majority And the majority that majority

that's about not don't they have problems internally because of language for instance then what's interesting

the second is the land air one this is a very strong geopolitical

thinking even at that time so so so we're so so we're looking the latest

book we are the prison of geography. It was true. But our founding father knew it in early 1900s. Very visionary. Now, this is actually gave me

a different way of thinking on how we should work on the ocean issue. So, so there phase that yeah, first I would say,

the proclamation is the Bermuda we proclaim our identity yeah, right, language,

yeah, kind, lingua franca, geostrategic, geopolitical thinking, and then,

if you look very carefully, yeah, we are the, without necessarily defining what it is. That's interesting. Yeah,

we're not Jawa, not, Bha, not, not, Bata, we're Basta, we're in Basta, which is back. Now, this, again, it's an identity

that's a, identity that's the first proclamation. Second one, of course, December Augustus, 1945, and the third one, at the concept the world of the world

it's not even though the national and this is not sadar because when we're decad in 2005 we're even from Belanda

over hundreds of years colonization but we we're decal from colonialization of humanational because international law that's international law international law

undergras unclos one, unclosed two was basically decided by them Right right

year. But Juanda Juanda, declarations in 2005 was inspired by

who? So, Juanda and Janda's either? Jolla and Pemikipedia people

So that's the So that's People are the Fromerousalant Um, they're in a while When I'm sorry Pantingi

Pummibin Republic That's Ones There's Kappal Asi Drente Because of the It was It's a

Mille Yeah So it So it Lewate Provacation Buthallaa Jaya, So that's about

There's a lot of the name. There's a lot of the name. I don't exactly know the name but interline's ocean this is because he brought weapons smuggling weapons So, so we're seeing that okay we're in Rhinelanda

we fought very hard But the sea, they're still there. And the jayahs that's still there. Yeah. Now, if all the water now, if we're still the power of the world,

yeah. Sose. Yeah, Sese, APE, that. Now, then, we're, we've actually, there's team, name name is.

Team, there's a continent. Gatwana, Mr. Mr. Mr. that'sh Mr. Rhetteh

Minta and Mr. Mh can't be able tootot not lawyant didotop? Yeah, not can't

the law international not can't be that the way, Rol Salleh you're not Mooda,

you know, thinkeran's like that. If you were when when 17th of 45 that, you,

the program as I'm sorry that, It's actually. It's true. You know, you know, you know, but you're going to be able to be able to be able.

But it's long until in 2008-2, how much? Now, because all the big powers that it's that's that

the concept or perficir Hugo de Groot, Hugoius, that I'm not in Europea I'm not even though because of the world of the crude because of the legal colonial

he's a young lawyer lawyer of VOC that's the lawyer that by VOC who made uprookin so much wrong yeah

yeah yeah and then English was that that was puttook that So,

I'm the I'maughasal out of the so you can't the world and the Landa said, well,

that's it's open so not can't the countries that can't

from from navigation to live there's so that was the legal conceptualization

of freedom navigation that That's to colonization. So industry, technology, percapalance that's that's a certain tool. It's a good thing. So that's, that's how it's done.

Exactly. Yeah. So that's that's how it's done. Now, uh, it's, it's, it's not even got to so when we're, yeah, can,

with, uh, and, uh, that's out of the port out of the top, the top of the world's, all the big powers, too, marra, all the big powers, to marra,

America, the United States, America, the English, Australia, and they're not being that's illegal. So, it's not able to do you not even if you're not going to be law, you know, to the government international.

And this gives me an inspiration that our founding fathers in the Uphiqqq, Kareh, right, al-huegum lawyotnautist just one, Pah, Pah, Mhurtar, that's brawny.

So if you pause a little bit, yeah. It was unbelievable. Not bad. Not bad. Yeah, right? Mm, that's great.

Mm, great. Just one lawyer, international lawyer. Gilly. Yeah, can. fought the whole world the whole world. Yeah.

Yeah, right? Forty-five meredica. And that's not, multi-polarity. No, no, no other. Wow. And then, there's,

uh, there's no power in the world, same again. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. You're another law. Okay.

Cool. So if I've got to have, we're not-it-it-a-lawful, because the power of the military we're not, right? Right, right. Right. I don't make a bamboo. So I think people need to keep revisiting our history, yeah. So, in front you, duration that's long as 5-7 to 8-2 to 1-12,

until UNCLOS 3. It's because of minimalism energy, yeah, that's that's really, the sameagued. Yeah, better. And, what, name is, if I'm the record,

that's also there's a lot and almost bad, yeah, give up. Yeah, the first 10 years, not much, not much, can. Yeah.

Yeah, like, guresin Gaza, maybe you to PBB, yeah, in VETO you, and DECA, yeah. Yeah.

So, 57 decaration, yeah, yeah, then, preparation, in 60,

that's started, negotiations in Geneva, all the way, to be 82. Yeah,

so a marathon negotiations. 25, yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's,

yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hashim and butetti, isia about about 50-a-hast.

He's still more than. Yeah. Yeah. Passi-assim still muda. Pamutar also, hands-on, him. There's been,

there's a, Panhuro, also. So, what, yeah, delegations, can come-in-go

many, but the corpick-ne-you- part-the-cuit-out- so it's, and, and if you want to pause yourself a little bit, with with the sameo-internian,

the concept of the world national, Indonesia, it's been a little bit of three-khaled. Three-kleaped. We thought a single bulletin. Yeah.

Top. Negotiations. Top. Yeah. From two-juta-an kilometer per-segue to 8 million. Yeah. So, it's a...

Yeah. And then, uh, uh, uh, that I've got to learn the technique that's how much. Now, that's technique. Penediction, bro.

Yeah, of course. But the IP, you don't 1.5, that's a little bit of that. So, so. So, the

I'm agummi, yeah, visionary, right. But again, vision without action is hallucination. Right.

Yeah, right. Yeah, Many people make a vision but there's I'm piqui. I've been too bhaven like that. Visions too much but executions do, do, do you know.

So, so in terms of you said, education, training good people, how to argue, you know, and how to argue, very good arguments, and in the context in-in-mugue international,

argument, but but more but more than but also and we make arientation the other the world of the

people who are Indonesia Fiji Nagara America Latin Samata Pacific countries Neger and Africa Timur

Philippines So we're alienation But what's but what's interesting is there the other that's not too the world

that's about not too much because they're they're not continental country like Chile, like it.

But they're concentrated with Minta CTE 500 mil that there again who Minta LATRitorial

100 mil Now I'm I'm I'm asking with P. Asim

Mottar when they can also be able to there. So, we're just we're just we're just

let them fight I see who knows we get it so we're we're we

told them we sympathize at the end when we are going to vote we will vote for you but

fight it so so we can get extra bonus we can

never We have we have ZTA 200 mil We have done us in the same way We're not We're doing We're doing 200 mil Ladas Continent

Samppeak 50 Other people But we're We're getting 200 Plus Because we

We have We have been HACs 50 For Rondinand Special Economic Zone Not Rardous

Continent I see So So So, So So We're

We've been BB that there there's sedentation all the way 200 plus so I was the lead and we're

we're actually we're there we have there's continent in the baratia in the barathe sebesar

Ulomadur Wow so so so ten five five ligitin

so we've got to do you. well done, I'm going to get back way to the penidiccuit. You can't go on the penidiccan this, this is the channel penidiccany. Selam or as as menacing set up

the abat the 15, that's kind of 30 to 140 of which people of which about Hes75, about Asia Tengara. Asiatic, this, can population

700 million. Yeah. Which, which is 9% from population of the population of the world. But, the number of books about Asia Tengara,

it's just 0.2% from the total book who republication. This is, I'm garis to bowie point, though.

that we're not we're we're not we're not storytelling and yeah to be storytelling you have been pediccan

yeah now this now this well I'm think I'm I'm gonna be we're gonna becust we're communication

and and bebushed and perciutto succour because pergars and bebansha

and berpacaban And then if we're if we're about 5 yeah, we're going to to make the marginal productivity so that we can

be able to rank in the line this, this, it's not much, we need, product stemm-ne we can't produce 250,000

to 300,000 S-1 stem But if if the demographies, 20 to 40% from the population, this is to poppa

with stem. Yeah, 20% just from 180 million to, around more than 50 million. You, if only can

produce 250,000 stamp, every time, you need 200 years. Yeah. How many, bro,

to make-buck- storyteller, a product that's about product-and-it-a-lottan and it's stem yeah-can and making-catt-productivitist

so, the Pemberdaian or lautan this for the penningan activity economy more than protein and kestraan and secreta-an

and secalan yeah, yeah, well, marine science, if we can look in Indonesia, also not so much even agricultural science or any other

I can in the landau regional and global that's been long. But this is not only the problem we'll discuss the education in general, and I'll specifically on marine science

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to be in Nis, that's he, yeah, professor's yeah, hey, how are you, that? Gettimore, get to see you, yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, what, yeah, what, numbering, yeah, what, column, yeah, it, the, comepunner, that, it's a bit, in international litigation on law of the sea

yeah, yeah, or anything, anything, implementation of unclosed that, yeah, lawyers, in the world, international lawyer who's lawyer whocum law, 20, 25, that's it, as opposed to

arbitration, or any other legal aspect, So there Sohuisian in the world of the same time Paris Agreement. Paras Agreement is a one agreement that's one that's one

but the ocean only only one and that's in preamble we had we made some the country of Indonesia, Fiji

there are four don't at least referencei so maybe two or two in operational the other than the other than

operational paragraph so there there basis of the national for countries that

is making medication adaptation or any activity on ocean that that's the climate

change or can make more the climate change not I'm from negotiator, because

because I'm sure that's objective majority of negotiator Paris Agreement, it's terrestrial all. They're expert in forestry, expert in the landaambut, expert in what name the pohon,

those type of science that, which, which, marine science, ocean science, too, very small. That's the problem But I cannot accept it Is it's not even though? Is it by the endil

To cop to the Tov to the front? Yeah Baru lately So there's a agenda that's the The mainstreaming of

Ocean in Paris Agreement It's weird Hmm 80% of Earth It's ocean why you mainstream the majority in the minority but we're justa

we're nother, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's okay, at least now we have a platform to discuss it, and this, and this, confirm from, from, from, from, the discussion we're coming in this, everybody,

from the World Bank, investor, NGO, government, the least funded is SDG-S-S-D-G-14 life below-water who manage our oceans is the least-funded

There's the ratioing There's a gap Kekuranga $175 billion annually newly. The costoanus, actually, around $200 billion. So it means, just this 25 pera.

Massey could run. 175 perils. Not it's not intuance. The terrestrial, how far is not terrestrial? Terrestrial that's real that's day chanciccan in the past

agreement, 300 billion. They're, the country bebeung bintang, bittance, $1.5 trillion. Nagara Maju says, I'll give you, okay, I'm going to be like that's the discussion of COP is 1.5, 1.2, whatever number they throw is for terrestrial. SDG 14 is simply not discussed.

So, so, um, so, um, so, um, um, discusses. Yeah, yeah, we have to find some financing. not want to private sector. So, in that context, our marine scientists, has to expand to be able to explain to the investor that these are program that we can come and invest. this is a lot of investment is justerhan. Investor invests to capal.

Okay, the carpal, the size of the carpal not too big long line fishing, tuna specifically, they have had a lot specific that to control, where there

he can't certifications that they're used that's available not by the law but it's like long line or by handline line

yeah, then the, the abel it's where who's the rights how you're going to this, this,

can't be sold in market with premium price because sustainability caught, but but basically like this is like in the other

that's like that blue carbon that's black carbon but sometimes they don't even know what it is sounds fancy no yeah right

basically we have discussed mangrove before yeah I want deep d'all sea grass sea marses yeah

so this So this is a ecosystem this is a different biodeveteries and sequestration capacity is different and this needs experts so that's yeah

I agree with you so stamp this is for us also for us also stamp that link with our resources that in nature. I'm sorry. It's important to have that kind of alignment, because,

because, you know, same the stamp is stem, making mobile. Yeah, okay, I mean, but the German made already good cars. And the Chinese. In the Chinese, so why don't we use our niche? like, like, like, like, yeah, like,

yeah, like you guys, can't make a busawatt that's, and boy, what, what's doing? So, so, yeah, stemmed now.

There's still, there's specific, from China. Yeah, that's why, it's why our stamp, too,

it's like, to be able to make the battery or component, that, but I think more and most important to the

The system that ocean. That's important. At the Stanford, there's Ocean Studies. Ah, okay. Department of Ocean Studies. Yeah. That's, we're focused very,

and many much to Bluefoot. But I'm going to look at, a lot of gliss, if you look at 88% from the capital-Rumatanga in Indonesia, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. 93% from electorate, not have had been S-1. Yeah. So, it's, how much how much

how much disrupal it's up to be around talk about how much to go to be in the school because if you're in room to come upah room tanga but in school

guru is up in around 20 to 200 siswa scalability is more more than you but if you not invest in guru the gajy yeah

Gajun in Malaysia,000 and $1,000,000,000 per-bun. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And have investation in the guru. I, that, I think, if we're making,

if we're making experiment idea, yeah, gaji in just $40,000 guru, 100,000 guru there.

There are 3, we're, we're not, we're gunggut, but we're recruit guru-baru-baru new $1 trillion per

$40 million per per year. $12 billion $48 trillion. Angeran $500 trillion. Yeah, yeah. Now, we can

convalesying, with Peningatown per capita chastraan, Peningatan peckaan to the

water and and everything. Yeah. That, that's not if I'm that, like,

And agate like that's quite we're more than 250 to 300,000 situations with time. What else? If we're more

focus to be about to beaute, how that, bro? Yeah, well, not want to see, yeah,

the manpower the teachers themselves, because, because, to be what's about what's what I'ma-court ideology that's just because

if we're even if we're looking technology that's tools curriculum also depending on the example in example in a traditional to

people in Indonesia before 10 years ago if to 10 years ago if you're doing for the picture you can gambar it can It's just like,

It's a little, There's a little bit more than There's swamination, there's There's awanourn't, There's, there's, There's, right. Yeah, Bener.

That's the Maritim that's Bener, bro. Yeah? Wow. That's always It's putter, too, narrasiness.

Yeah. If you're justurue Gambar Pemandang, the first is the land and the yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Manaric. Yeah. So, so it's been of the way of thinking. And I'm you're you're

you're just over the he's got to be there's three tavern yeah, in Amazon at Kemen, you know, to be able to be bro, so

to do you do yeah, but if they're going to gawr in Samedang because the people who are there's going to

beelk too but if you're but if you're being three million to get Kemen you. Fork to Amazon

but but also another other again, we, we're we're, we're,

we're I agree with you stym, but but I'm not too much more than one. Oh yeah, yeah. This is zero sum. I know, I know, I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my own.

I know, yeah. So, so, so, uh, not allurelurelars but in the whole lot of the but in the German the other people

the people talent's where okay then Lema also SMA also then then he'll then you're putt then you're okay SMK

that this which is this and this genusiness and in the industry chamber of German, AHK, that's that's under the same thing,

and certifications. There are 300 plus profession plus curriculum. At the same time, government made the legal basis in a, the rule of law, undang. So, the, that's, you know, and quagipan,

and the when they're the sameka in the same kind of but because of the game clear, so that's 100% because of SMK in German is discerap in industry, and so,

so this backbone of it, I'll give you an example I'll give you an example, I go to one of the one of a ship's one of the he hasaacques, he has to be able to pick upalam. Cabal slam in German, to clasca by the time.

Not not, not, not. The German still use human. Handcraft, yeah. Yeah, handcraft, that. Now, before the fabric, the cabal of the, right

that's up to there's a SMK there's in the same kind of in the property of the car

I'm in Stuttgart to the factory Mercedes when it comes to the Mercedes the back on

the school school and the SMK so there SMKs the MILA in the BEDA

in the BADC Automotive that is in the building So right, two-day class, and then I'm sorry-bishop. I'm sorry to work.

I'm going to SMK, name's Dresden Chip Academy. SMK, especially for semi-conductor. That, he, location there is there. in the get it's

the good of the same say decadent yeah there's been there's been bad badang yeah there's yeah still in process so in europea there

there are two one in dresden one again in Spain they need I think around 11,000 people in Drescent a year Drescent a year Wow

Yeah, that's the CMK for chip academy, that's workers, it's very lanku. And, and I'm going to getaed at the instrument, Texas instrument, right, in, uh, in the Kuhncunc, it's, um, the, um, the cotain in Uttar Muncuncun and TTI, there's

I think around 6,000 and the the same time twice as much as the whole 6,000 people wow is it too amazing workshop in

and from and from 3,000 people majority SMK, technician is itulahs L'1, S2, BHD. That's from BATHT.

That's from 1,000, majority of SMK. Same, same, same, too. So, majority of the S&K, that's in Padu, yeah? Yeah, in Germany, that's, Tadding, if you were not-bill-S-1. Unda, you know, that's just that. But, now, there's just to bea-dole-your-self. If you're going to up-skele-your-self,

to from the samek the samek. you want to upscale yourself there's 1st, almost, 2, S3, whatever, but majority

that's the way, the shillan, the same, the same car. Now, this is something that's quickly produce, that I,

and I have to, so, so, so, because we're, yeah, because what we're, yeah,

because what we But now industry there's a lot of a small number ashmk is 1 so.

So, so, but because no job available for example, so he has to compete with SMK and

compete with SMK and that particular set of skill that that's but if you're but if you're

by law not want to have to work then I'm not asemk so that's then right then right then

probably will be sassan an answer and if I'm that's that I'm that off taker that

natural SMK because vocation it's very it's essential yeah

but it also also bebeckable with piece Pisa. Yes, yes, right? Yes, yes.

We're number six-nine, if not so, in 81-negara. That's up. Yeah, yeah. So, that's supply for SMK or yeah, if you're if the impingan multinational, if he wants

public, data that they look at the first is the pisae Yeah, yeah. Singapore number one, Tijuana number two, Vietnam, now,

if you know, that's the way to beaughan to beaughan. Yeah. But, but thesis investaise, investaise,

not absolutist. It's, when it's directionality. If he's better better this day by the day than day, Lusa,

more than the day than the next week. Mawksa. He'll be able to do it. Yeah, yeah. And,

and if we know, the time we're To Landek perinkat And then we farm subscriptions arms if they're There's actually

actually Whenst in Berlin We're organized discussion a very deep discussion With the semi-conductor industry I'm going to

Dresden I go to Bavaria I took from with Bavaria chip alliance then Bavarian Chippe designer Alliance all the industry

I'm a group sometimes one-on-one but but from the end upland we're doing that one one of a country

if you want industry semiconductor that there are some element yeah yeah yeah the first what's very interesting is that's very interesting is how much?

You're going to make the size of what? The question is, if I'm going to ask, if Indonesia, I'm going to make sure that's how much? My question is always replied with question. Indonesia wants to make sure what? And they're going to say that if you're going to make sure that if you're going to

to see size the the same no no not just that's just people are people people

okay now you choose size that size that 150 and it

was true that it's true like Texas instrument that's 150 still

still yeah it's still because it was to it's like it used to

it's like for it's used to mobile fuel, AC, remote control, TV. So daily appliances, market is big. And the surprising is all the chips for military,

all of 4,000, good-garedy, because for durability, that's one, so, so, so. T.S.M.C. has made like that like that. Yeah, he's the same for... He's not too sophisticated. Yeah.

then there factor incentive okay, you can provide then you can't advise me I'm going to tell you tell you know we're

there, we're ecosystem oh there near the bottom bintan and the last question do you have enough talent inshawu that I said

there there level of what I tell you yeah it's already technicians S1 S2. Not necessarily

but it's not necessarily but if you're now. Now, now I'm asking for semi-conductor about facultas

technique electric not always so that's so that you can't so much to industry semiconductor

this is the German that I know math physics chemistry chemistry chemia

and technique electric can't all right all right I was I'm not only no no we don't need we don't need a ambassador

I'm in case of public in case you're not even normas or lessen we don't need lawyer ambassador so my career choice is right because my background is not needed in semiconductor

you are a rare commodity so I'm actually, I'll be it. I'm not that's why, while I was there, this is because of the channel pediggan, if I was an advertisement, I go sign MOU with some technical university in Germany

that specializations is semiconductor. The U. Stuttgart, T.U. Mungent, T.U. D.D.R.T. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. K. K. K. K. So that's Sootu is basis for the the other than the

whether that is B or not, that's even S-1, S-2 or S-TICAT, in the Bid on the Bidanguctor. That was my program. My program the second that I've done in Germany is when I was

when I came in Berlin first time 2018, there were 8,000 of Indonesia, now that's 1,000 mostly stem. so your question is 100,000, though.

Yeah, naïk. Yes, minimum. Yeah. Yeah. Nanty, n't I'll make 1,000 500. In America, 8,500.

Yeah, we're 11,000. Yeah, that's 11,000. That's the majority of stem. And, that's the majority stand, and majority is 1, which means they have to speak Germans. Now, they've got to speak Germanic, and they're in the industry,

what name is, semi-conductor. So I've made program called company visit. So I'd ask anna that, 15 people, 20 people, I'd ask them them to industry.

I'll call it with CEO the CEO's, the CEO's giving them, And CEO's the U. underwegey-a-a-be-b-b-b-b-b-a-b-b-a-bu-a-law. And then-lawed-law. Yeah. Lunders-a-huh.

Yeah. Lunders, there's a lot. Or, maybe, yeah, yeah, a lot of you know, that's about me, you know, Bah, Fas,

Padubas. They're not going, don't know. Uh, since, I said, I said, That's a lothapalaka,

people who abyssacques, thousands and thousands and thousands without a question with erotnoot they will go home but when he went back tech, made industry in Gantara because they're all right now there's all right, there's all right,

so they're back home, then there at the top BTDI, still of many of them in Airbus until now some of them a good friend of mine. Many of them also in the way. So many of them still in the world. So,

it's become brain circulation, that's my theory simple. If you're still, if we can't you can't want to make up to make, or men, every year that's still in Germany, in Germany,

every year, in Germany, in a year's in Germany, yeah, an hour of 11,000. CREEN. In five years, you have 5,000. Jaddi, that's,

you've been. You've been to be here, then, it's already, yeah. Mackalacharim 100,000, not 11,000. Yeah, yeah. Every time you can be able to be

...byes that's it's it's a bit more. This is a new technology that they're now doing in India. They have a setup, I think one of the company, I forgot the name's what. So, the headquartered in Dresden, they call them workshops, In India, the waywagonerjewen just around the computer because of the German.

Before that thing happens. Gila, can? Yeah. Wow. So they're starting it. I was, I asked, I asked, I was, I asked, that I'm making, manufacturing, got it. I'm saying, manufacturing. We send all the

there. Okay, with security, whatever, secure area. And who is actually, you know, entering, yeah, you know, yeah,

who's obo, but, that's, yeah, yeah, in Dresden, got it. So,

those guy, what are doing, we called them to turn out the engine. Gilly. So, he's schedule. And it's 24 hours a day. we can't

Batsu up here yeah, yeah, yeah, he's been he's like Bacoose, mas, that's

okay, so patate, so, so, so, the level, manaping,

at all, the guru, important. Now, we're going to mongroff, yeah.

Indonesia, yeah, Indonesia, can, 22-25% from the world. Yes.

Asia, Tengara, 50%. Yeah. Conon. I think fred number 30% yeah yeah

between 20% to 30% which is optimistic maybe maybe 10% realistically like it's 3040 40% coral reef

maybe more than 40% yeah yeah yeah yeah sea grass sorry seaweed we we're number

two yeah yeah 1 kilo metric. So it's 1 mega. Yes. 1,000 hectare? 1 giga, bro.

Yes. Every time, the, the world, is emissing 40 giga carbon. So you'd land 1,000 hectarend, in Asia, Tengara or in Indonesia. Yeah, yeah. that's $2.5% to be monetization.

But it has to monetization. I'm. It's right. Buy product's a lot. I can even greener, more than it, more so much, more soobor, neuroses, more down.

Then, yeah, more pereservassi, yeah, if you're going to, ocean studies security, connectivity, and conservation we've got to talk

security we've got to talk conservation and economy here is here yeah if we're if we're

about balance in terms of conservation in terms of economy coming back from my background

as a international lawyer That's as a principle international. So it's the balance of economic benefit, environmental protection, and social responsibility. That's clear, three, that. So, so, really, we don't need to be debate about that. Now, what we have, what, yeah, what, yeah, what we need, arguments that, is, When we can't

a system balanced, environmental aspect, responsibility, and economic development, yeah, it's monetization the level of the global global, yeah?

Yeah, right? Indonesia, this, MQQU, we've got, we're the need to mitigate, adapt, adaptation and also address climate change

around $205 billion up to total? Total? Okay. Until 2030? Yeah. Okay. I mean, this is big money. Because the developed country is only can't give 300 billion.

For developing countries, we're one country just 285. You see? The magnitude is big. Now, ABBN is about. Not much. 18% said I'd be able to ask. The rest, yeah, we have.

Spasta. Vasta. Market. Sorry to interject, yeah. This, I want to nuntick optimism. Dunia Barat, this, like, be limpa-limpah, with liquidity.

America, the time-temannes, their, in Timor-Temort-Megh. This, the place they're so they're going to make sure. So, they're going to doversification.

Yeah. For the importance risk suggested return, but problem the global south, 84% from planet, they're not

can't be translasy correct. From uncertainties and it's and so unknown unknowns yeah, if the risko

to known unknowns. Yeah, and it's be priced, can measure, can be predict. Yeah. Ibarred, if you want to getber,

the gembert, people jember, there's 68% probability, the listric will die, three months. Yeah. If you're building fabric in here, if the electricity is much, because probability's not too big,

um, the onset you're turn 12%, um, bottom line you're down, you can't be itch. Yeah. I'm still chengly. Yeah.

I'm still chowan. Here, I'm going to make a public. Then, there's that he said, inshawolah, Allah, the district's not matty. Yeah. Now, that's unknown, unknown.

Yeah, yeah. I understand. That's not that we can't be quantification. Yeah, yeah. Now, I see, if we can translate from the notepastien to be risk that can be itong,

not use of whether or $200-secan million dollars. Yeah, yeah. This is a problem typical in the country bebeams. Because when we have we have we have team we need Ines of the other than just discussion I'm working with people in the field of ocean Isle.

Is it that we understand private sector to have money many. Chalance of dollar that's not matter because we can't make underlying activities and to be able to make underlying activities is to be able to

the risk. That's the risk. That's not that's a lot of the world. So, so, the country maju is, it's actually, that's just a 300 billion that, with other than I don't really trust you, guys.

You ask 1.5 trillion, but this is not charity. So, so, so. So, so, so, so, So, there's rational that they that's about that's but that's

discussion. But it's really it's not not a way that's like just like, but it's there's

there's the key issue. But we have to optimist because the money is there if there's if there's

if there's not if it's why that I'm saying that I'm that I'm saying that I'm important for us to underline activities

specific issue, like mangrove, like. Check, same mangrove. Okay. Mangrove this for some

industry Indonesia is still as far as CSR. Yeah. Bener. Bucan. And it's whitewashing too.

Yeah. So, so idea that if you help them, one day I will buy the cardboard. That's right.

Now, if we've got to thinking, especially in industry, this will help a lot. Because we're going to, we're not a lot, technically speaking. We're a country middle income. Dampaignia,

the impact of, is we're not to bring again grant. We're only, we're only I'maglia. Because if the money, the country has been around, we're not getting around,

that's not, you know, if the donors come to Jakarta, they look around, what grand are you talking about, man? Yeah, right? This is not burqina-faso. Yeah, this macot, but

the beginning of the machete, that's, can, too, who, yeah, who, yeah, can't be able to grand, don't, so, so, so, so, so,

simplistic way. So we have to finding from market. Now, if you have to have an effort that's a bit of a bit. Like, a little. Now, this is interesting if you look around. How many Indonesian industries that are interested in ocean?

Bekit. Other than those who are in the ocean business. Those in shipping, of course. The fished upal. It's the other. It's going to beaughan. Yeah. Mangroffing the seaweed.

Seaweed is it. Yeah. But the rest, it's not to be and if I go global, or do why? Same thing. That is why,

SDG-14 is not well-funded, least funded. But at the same time, in the country bebeang, And so much of the technical aspect. Yeah, yeah,

endangue penitness, the rank of the menhagnan, there's legislation, the longerangue, but underlyinging is just one, leadership. I'm a lot. So, I'm thinking, when I'm thinking, when I'm going to be nice,

to talk about with me and KAPE. we have we have leadership yeah, yeah, that's about the world that we can't be able to water that big new carbon that how we do it yeah, then how we monetize that

the underlying activities then if we can't listen this way backus we can't even we can't take another to belaj for our even we go further

by educating them. We can't give us training can give assistance to the other people, the country and agaer can probably even bring our colleague investors to be so

so so so visionary but with actions action is it's gampangangangue you nanomangrove now can't make gruff

Now, it's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. Yes and no. Manual labor. Yes, and no. Okay,

sila. Because I've been in that argument before. In discourse, like, it's like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tremak, copot again.

Yeah. Yeah. In some area. In some area, in some area, it's in general. But that's actually manual. But in any case.

But, no, but execution is straightforward. Yeah, yeah. In any case, in any case. This is not a good science. It's not that expensive. Right. It's not that tricky, not too complicated. Yeah, can't be tanem just.

Yeah, can. Sorry. This, this, this, narasiness, you can be able to serenakan, bro. If Indonesia If you know how much If you know how much If you guys This queseration carbon

It's kind of Withing PerlTO In Indonesia That's a real statement If you're to cop We have been PLTU

We can't Tutsu We can't put up in due time economics It has to Pertanguegeop Can? Yeah, just with carbon

mangrove just, it's a real quantifiable statement. Right. And then we can, we can confidently say, Show me your money. Right, that's Show me your money. Yeah, yeah, because of it.

Yeah, so. So, we've done we've done that balance, even more, yeah, with even we can go further by establishing ecosystem.

So you can't groove the persisir then you put sea grasses and then you put corals because coral is developed some of some of the technology

you can actually develop and if you want to go even further even further even even even record as such the name seaweed yeah

seaweed that's it's the can't have the ability that's for for

for the for the American for for the American for the plastic there's project in America, the name is Alaska Project This is a research where there are two

genies sioux that if you're that if you're that many metal heavimetal and it's real earth. So imagine wow. You harvest rare earth from seaweed.

Wow. Becath, too, we're just Yeah, and Indonesia, this, there's, many the place there, maybe can be able to be able to be the place that many tambang or heavy metal

that on the coastline. So much more than we need more than we need more than what we need we're about we need what we're about we need to ocean studies that's upy in Indonesia keren so that's so there paper I'm I have a high-level ocean panel. We have a paper somewhere in the production, so.

So, he is to, the size of country, from the waters, vis-a-vis how many scientists that they've got to. So if, if, in the world, Indonesia needs somewhere around 100,000. With the size of the waters,

that's big-like-that-that-like-that-you-like, that's-old. 100,000, how's-3-1-100-1-6-3? 100-1-2-S-3. Technician, and it's not, but it's very important for us, because we have MBA, marine-protected area, So for designing, what name is looking at the? and the way to look at the way to look at all those things on seaweed and everything. So, yeah, 100,000 for the world in other world, this is.

In other, it's important. Yeah, it's important. One other, this is one other, because your child is education, yeah. Again, my experience in German, in German, because of research center, from the most top, hemhalls, hemholtz, is the aggratrys, U.S. Europe. Euro. Per town.

Astafil-a-law. Yeah, ehce. That's just 500 million euros. This is different with the way. Six billion bucks. One billion euro. So it's huge. Okay.

Now, where the money comes from? Because I'm from. I'm from. I don't. There's from the government. federal, there's from PMDA, but mostly swastah. And some of the people that actually owned by private companies.

Now, at the law, my question is also, is my question is also, about the industry, that's about our industry, we're not, they own, they own, they own, they own, they own internal RANDI, that's not not many yeah

maybe there's not practice and not common tradition in Indonesia that industry we have been in-house arrandi spending yeah how much percent from revenue every year

for revenue every time that's for research development in the German at the we are looking at 10% that's So that's because of Fulose. Yeah.

We're in the stoutasance, room economy's, new, run monetar, room fiscal. This, if we're doing, we're doing seaweed,

like coral reef, like mangrove, this, this, for carbon credit, yeah, sequestration is good-bottes,

the supply-nees goody-bent. Demanding is good, this data-centre, this, this, but, but, but, in the conduit

and this can transparency yeah yeah need to be undergaken the governance like clarity and that

PR for us to if we're if not not there's actualization of the new

PR and Northrogate science it Gampangang because actually the core in terms of substance material is there,

because there's up there, supply there's got to be it, but not get to know, because pipa-maping is maimped, this, this is correctness, the rule of law, the same old, that,

that, and we're, and we're, yeah, develop this, it's, it's, the part government, it's important, yeah,

KKAP in this. I'magherment I'm going to quite optimistic for Blue Carbon this. There's four locations that's already the prospectus'n't by KKP and hopefully it can become

one, an project that's very good so. This is one and a half time. Okay. The last

yeah. Multilateralization. Yeah. This can agga, kind of coma, You optimist, is it? You're optimistic? Yeah.

This is, like, yeah, a little about the endowment two-one, two-one per year. Yeah. Angeran PBB, $6 million.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gimana bina. Yeah, yeah. NATO just, 2.1, 2.2, trillion. How do we bring back multilateral? normally this kind of question

I'm just a lot of to the elements basically bad news is a good news so it's a good news, so it's not going to turn to be putar yeah yeah, well, bad news

is the UN, UNGA and UN Security Council that's not able to in the world of the spot in the that's the world of Africa, Europe, that we have alamed, that's structural, that's the problem. That's a problem in there.

But if we're going to get optimistic, in the system multilateralism, right? rules of the airlines, right? natural, right? Right? Rules of safety

from the playerang, it works fine. Yeah, right? Rule of we all using mobile phone everywhere we go that's ITU. Yeah, because there are rules

yeah. Yeah, there are some hiccups in WHO, H-H-H-H-W-G, yeah, W-T-O, yeah, W-T-O, got.

But, the fact that W-2 is not working as we would like to, can not not be not.

Yeah, can. Yeah, some elements of subsidy, technicalities, yeah, ali-ali,

trade, like yourself, understand. But if, in general, can, And if you're like, again, if you're

the report of the Asia-the-a-a-hocan, every year, can, trend's going to be on the function or not. So, there's a lot. So, there's disconnect between WTO and service digital that's great.

So, so, that's great. So, there's a lot of pessimistic. and also has an optimist. Now, the question is, those groupings and countries that are they're not unilateralism, that's the current

mutual system, the UN Security Council, not be able to be, alternative, or you're not unilateralistic, you know? Yeah, yeah, it's like US,

if they're unilateral, they're out, we can change your seat. But, not too. Yeah, those in the permanent seat of security council, you don't like it,

we can just go, man. You can, you know, fill your seat. So, I want to take my diplomatic head off by saying that If there's discussion about the UN security council reform, my humble, direct opinion, it's a lip service. China is rising power. India.

The current security council set up. China is, you know, I want to underline all those ambassadors that I mentioned should not come and complain to me. This is a segment where I completely go off the script. China is rising power, of course. What would you leave the seat? Would you invite other to stay with you? Russia, you know, it's not like Soviet anymore. Right.

Your GDP is not $3 trillion. So, okay, you have military power. you have your oil and gas, you know, but your condition is, so you don't like UN system, you leave. No. The Brits were the colonial master, 500 years. The Brits are the French, man. Yeah, not anymore. The U.S. is not clear.

So if they're talking about security council reform, yeah, they're not going to leave the seats. It's too comfortable. Because their most valuable weapons are that piece of furniture. Fatto is that. Tretto is it too. Yeah. I personally, I don't really know. how

there's how much there's in real life yeah yeah many methods proposed hopefully this work that work just the one I'm looking at

is yeah our experience in example in India Mr. Mojah Patatas, right? They're notors, motor

from a meeting, that's not going to be able to security council, but we're able to be mediator. Yeah, right? Yeah. Maybe I have to go, I'm going to be sure about. Yeah, baggian, what, the process, that's,

maybe, that's what we're going to beaqqq in It's the other than the second. The second is the second's but it's bettering the best of the peace and stability should it, yeah, the country of the same job. So, so. So, so that's the responsibility of our own country,

yeah, can. The fact is the most of the most of the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, alone and along with Malaysia and Singapore, for instance, yeah, yeah, can. Yeah, yeah, right. So, it's the other than the area ofasas and to create peace and stability in the

the area itself, yeah, right? So if we can start that, you know, it will be great. And, but unfortunately, even in Europe, they are at Warnham many places the only actually back to the architecture

peace and security Asia Tengara Asiangana is really in a good situation because damn good because our security situation is boring

then boring doesn't make it interesting boring is good Because... Yeah, exactly. boring is good in terms of regional security, so, yeah, so it's very good. Because, uh, what, it's,

it should be thankful to us. Because we're in the world, all those lanes of communication, the slog, seats of Malacca, seats of Singapore, we take care of Sunda Street, Lomboc Street,

it's, freedom of navigation, is guaranteed, free of low goods, oil, gas, that we're not too care in Asia, the Asia, Dengara. So, uh, so, uh, some,

some, we're going to come from that we're going to know, it's not, it's the other way around. I, I'm going to look at

Asia, Tengara, it's a natural swing state. Yeah. We can't have to be mucus or a teman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can't beaun to the Uyongok or to the barat or anywhere. Because the scalanus, stability,

yeah. They should be the one who decides themselves whether they will be our friend or not. Yeah. Bucan, don't. Absolutely. Yeah, we've done our job. Yeah. But if the P.

But if the BDB is still in $2,000 in Laos, he'll buy Opo. He'll not buy iPhone. Oh, yeah. If you per-N-N-N-1-Singapore, yeah, he's a lot of... Yeah, well, same in Singapore, we'll buy Apple too, yeah. That's a person, maybe.

Yeah, but we're going to be five-bue dollar, we can't make. But I only have a peopentinginging of how to be tempus. Oh, yes. Middle income. Yeah, yeah. And we have to be climb up the value chain, climb up the geopolitical global order, expand upon our strategic autonomy.

Yeah, education is important. Niche and using our environment as a leverage. Because we are blessed with such different things in the in the realm of our lives, terrestrial ocean, especially oceans. And of course in the future, Mucan, but protein, which is I can, blue food. I mean, and more than

SAPI, bro. Oh, yeah. And emission-free. Yeah. Yeah, can? Carbon food prairie is there, no. Oh, I hope this episode this can't conversion

paradigm of people. Thank you. That's, that law is more important than terrestrial. Thank you, sir. There's the other questions, Pat. I think it's very important and very very susauch.

What is my own endgame thinking, that's my endgame actually very simple. Isa Can't we can't 20% of GDP? Which is $320 million.

Because now between 7-8% from GDP. Bissue. Yeah, that's my endgame. This, can very under. Exactly.

That's. Yeah. And ocean economy. That will surprise agriculture. Oh yes. They will surprise the whole industry. Manufacturing is 18. Exactly. Exactly. Taddingy high 20s.

Wow. Yeah. That's a noble statement. My requirement. I'm going to, bro. Just 20%. In mimpy you, how long, timeline? No idea.

No idea. I'll be it. Yeah, please. And please hitung with the element of ocean economy. Ocean economy, there is

activities at the ocean on the oceans on the ocean, which is navigational. then in the ocean which is catch fishery the landassan oceans which is oil and gas extractions

and then any industry related to that carlagan kapal on the coastline marine tourism or fisheries in general then aquaculture and then the environment related industry which is blue carbon you can't break down that.

great. And how you can get 20%? Okay. 20%? Okay. That's my end game. Wow. On that note, thank you, bro.

Jamas will come. Sami, Sami. So, that's-lou Havas Ugroseno. Or Arif Havas Ugroseno. Thank you.