Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Arsjad Rasjid: Bernegara dan Berbisnis di Tengah Machiavellianisme

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

Kepemimpinan. Satu kata yang kerap kali diperebutkan atas nama pengabdian, namun sejatinya tidak lebih dari hanya sekadar memuaskan dahaga kekuasaan. Arsjad Rasjid hadir dan berbicara dalam kapasitas sipilnya. Selama 90 menit percakapan ini, hanya satu hal yang beliau tekankan berulang-ulang. Yaitu, pentingnya memiliki, menjaga, dan menghidupkan nilai (value) dalam kepemimpinan—baik dalam berbisnis maupun bernegara. Arsjad Rasjid adalah Ketua Umum KADIN (Kamar Dagang dan Industri Indonesia) 2021—2026 yang saat ini juga menjabat sebagai Presiden Direktur Indika Energy. Beliau telah mengisi berbagai posisi kepemimpinan di Indika Energy selama hampir dua dekade lamanya. Tahun 2023 lalu, Arsjad memimpin ASEAN Business Advisory Council (ASEAN-BAC) sebagai Chairman untuk mengadvokasikan peta jalan ASEAN menuju 2045. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #ArsjadRasjid ----------------------- Pahami Episode Ini Lebih Baik: https://sgpp.me/eps173notes ----------------------- Berminat menjadi pemimpin visioner berikutnya? Hubungi SGPP Indonesia di: [e-mail] | https://admissions.sgpp.ac.id | https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: Indonesia Matters | Wandering Scientists | The Take Kunjungi dan subscribe: SGPP Indonesia | Visinema Pictures

Perbidea, that is a different. And we have a different. And we have to be able to be able to beaughan. Mr. Rassad Rassi. Mr. Rassad Rassi, welcome. Welcome to talk. We always gomonging, sociality,

demacquhance, care, this we're just, Chief. Yeah, right? But, this will not be it will be able to be. So all the economy. and then,

and then, can't really can't be able to be able to be able to be able to be. It's a formula for Indonesia to be a new country. No other way, chief. Ambitious. But at least, we have a dream. Now, how can we reach there?

As a leader, it has to give up to a I'm a lot of subordinate, but must be able to give up to the ladder that's only, who's like who can't give you can't even if you're saying, this is the end game. Hello, people, today we're getting atollah Khad Khadin, who's the time like being in the Alamed Hadir.

Bro, thank you very much, Zadha. Say, thank you. As an honor for me to be here. I'm going to watcher. I'm going to ask you. I'm going to ask you. We've got to be able to be able to be. Masa-kechil, you?

You, too, be able to learn computer. And then how, so? If you, if, if, if, if, if, was, there, there was a part of the question that I made and asked my mom, So when I'm up to have a man, so I'm like that's about nine years.

Then I was like, Mooda, Tegas Kakiya again. Mour 9 years, I'd be given to out of the world of Lanku, single from Kroarrape, so,

and then there's been a place there's a place to be itchew, but there's been back, you know, why not nangis, yeah? Maybe sanking, it's, you know, it's, you know,

not angeles, but I'm not yet, Jeff, but I'm not yet. But from there, it was in Singapore, until secondary school. And my dad, my dad, I guess, he's called, my mother, and then you're about it again. Chad, you have to beaousy good, to get, you get to get, and then, and then, and then, he said, now is, it's the time you're going to get to be able to go.

He went to be around. When, America. Then, at the time, when, there, When we've got to dole-up, so we've got to doodotan, get to get-outen, where, school, and all the much.

So we did my research, come to my dad, back in, me, back, yeah, look, but, yeah, think, oh, California,

kind of, so, so, so, so, but, actually, it's in,

but, not, but, not been a lot to make, the school that I'm going, the,

he's, he's, the, Millet simple. Because of the because of the U. Aya, because of the U.S.S. there's a lot of course. Right. Untonging,

not military school, but beckx military school. It's like almost there. This is like, almost there. That's, yeah, got. You know, it's got. Yeah, it was his choice. That was his choice. San Marino. Yeah, but

a half hours of L.A. In the Cota San Marino, the name is Southwestern Academy. And then after that, of course, then I went, until I'm going, uh, until I'm going to go to college, college, applied to college,

but college, that. But at all that, when I applied for application of, for schoolas, I, uh, I applied for credit card, chief. Because, can't be able to be able to do, I'm not yet yet when arrived

not come back again, I'm going to book again, I'm going to be coming up, I'm going to be a bookerick card first, I've been with you, that, have been credit card.

But, you know? Best creditory. $500. Yeah. But then, there, there's, there, some,

many kinds of universities, who, that's been making, kind of, most in Boston, like, yeah, but because I love LA

because I love L.A. Because of the way of L.A. Yeah, I love... Yeah, I love... Yeah, because of the... M. S.M.P. S. M.S.M.A. I was there's right now. My choice at it was because I'm going to take engineering, not because I'm going to say,

I'm going to pay money, he said, he said, people are not doing for the insinior. But, but al, it, it, he's going to beckinian, not just I pick engineering. When I took it, electrical, but it's computer engineering, that's the thing.

Now, it's it, I took it in USC. That's it. Great about it'sy. But I always my parents, too, not like if you're school in Asia. Now, USA, it's

many people, but the business. Not in engineering. Engineering, just five people. So, so, 20-old. 20-old. No, no, 80s.

That's 8-8. 88. 88. Okay. 80s. And then, then, then, then,

we're, we're glad to be able to, yeah, right, can, this U.S.C., How many people? But now, but now, even more than engineering, can't,

because the other than you guys than Indonesia's, then it's been, so, it's not, but two years in the same. Yeah,

yeah, you know, I've seen, people, I'm, asic, awesome, ask,

back, yeah, yeah, but, we're, we're, people, two, three,

four, , got, there, many, many, many, many,

many, like, like, like, , , Right, if I'm like, I'm like, right. So at the end at the point of time, see, I was better.

And, you know, my, my best friend with my brother. Yeah. And we're getting up high school. Then, then, he's been. He's in Peper Dine. Amble business. Can't ask. Back.

Kempus. The campus. Yeah. And then, I decided, yeah. So, after two years, then I decided, I moved. I moved. Yeah. Now, before that.

But, yeah. Because of Bokab, like, like, engineering. But I'm, but I'm going to ask. Yeah, I went back. Oh, there, I'm going to be mad to ask. Tanya, yeah. Cary time in the past, all that much, I'm going to say. Okay.

Okay. Okay. This, this, me, want to be indicted me. I want to be a business man. Gobbinga will be. If you're going to be. The wrong thing, that's, you know, No, no, yeah, yeah,

you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you're just, yeah, a little, just my catacotta just my catacotta so actually at the end, you say, go ahead, that, yeah,

I did I have to do, I completed my study in Peridina here, then, and then, then, I was, I'm going to make a master, unfortunately, Ayah's sick,

it was back in 1990, 1991, sorry, and I decided after it, back Indonesia. So since then, 92, 93, 93, then you're going to do you.

You're going to get to? Kierda, one, with a perusan Japan, when that, Patungan. It was Mitsubishi. Okay. In, uh, uh, uh, motor, Mitsubishi motor. So, actually, yeah, that's interesting. Dapot, got a work,

he gave, when it was, when it was, it was, it was, I was it was it's as the director for the time. I was there's been to work. That's been to do. I was going to go. I was going to go.

I was looking for my desk, though. He said, no, no, no, no, no. You're in, the back. This is for the office, said, no, no, no, no. Bawar.

I, I think, it's, like, I'm going to be going to be doing, I'm applying for this. Then, then I was going to. then I was in the assembly line actually.

For how many months? Six months. About it. B, it's been. Yeah, man. So, yeah. But it's been doing, but I'm going to be able to do with it. Yeah, but I'm doing it.

There's going to be doing, like, that's going to last, like, it's different phases of the production. Now, sobeled-b-buck-like-a-old-it-you-a. After like, almost five, six months, like, pangil, they've said, Okay, okay, you have your desk.

To the other, to get to be up, to be able to be sure that. And they are there, there. Then I understand. Because what I read? Yambo. Yambo. So, so, you know,

what's what I'm going to be able to, this is to beaing it. Because I think that's important, actually. Yeah, to understand it, that. So it was a good, what I'm the name is the time? But that's the best of the best of the time. Yeah, business, too. Business to, too. Then when I was going to be given to give us,

they'd give to give to a deal with the people. And then. Then I was going to be business, too. He won't go back business, I'm going to sit. Not until six-month, boss, abyss. At least, I was about. In that's it's all the way, one life, yeah, be able to be like, wow.

Not that's not, you know, not work with you, you know, not carjain it, that. But, yeah, as well, must be it's going to be able to, but if you're going to becky, chief, for that it. If I went to work, I'm not about gaiji. But I'm paying business. Gimana, can, get, there. There's risk, no, there, chief.

I'm going to, oh, do you know, how much the two-a-a-a-cala-cala. But at the end, I'd be able to choose. So at the end, I went off and... Bucca business at that, computer. Yeah, because of the computer engineering. So, so, chief. Smart-cut, too, chief.

He said, wow, smart card, chip, that's... In Indonesia, we're from France. We're trying to sell it. Amma, POS, that's the same. POS, that's it. It's like portable and And that's all the time. And then it's about ATM,

machine it's to make up to make. So we're trying to do it. Wow, talk, talk. Susa, you know, we were able to do it. And then we got a big contract, chief. It was in 96 or 97. 97. We got a big contract.

Wow, we're happy really happy, back, like, contract, dap. This one, one, one, this, one, this, this, like that's all the same POS. It's kind of great-a-contract with a thousand-one, you're going to be able to...

Now, no, no, no, that's... So, when I... When I... This is... Actually, it's always August. Okay. We started together, like. Maki.

Now, that's indica, but... Nama came again, Indica. That's quite interesting, because, Magoo, we've got to get parabu. So I've got to make parabu. So I'm going to be able to put in.

Just I, I guess, back. Agus, I'm going to get back. Chat, no, my. Like that's like that great like Sony Like that's like that's right But yeah, we're like to try Yeah, because business that's In the city, ICT

GITG, like, media, media, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'm multimedia, yeah, yeah, so that's media, yeah, yeah, because Indicat, yeah, yeah, so, originally, yeah, so that was the name, back then, so, so, actually, it was back then, then, then, and, again, we had, We've got to contract. that's up to get to contract.

But after that's up. Tiber, yeah, who'd be able to, boss. Smuany happy, we're happy. Eh, bang, it's tutupe, boss. Kenaed to $197. So, so...

So, so... So, then, so... Then, it's... Yeah, oh, God. We're gonna, this. This is, yeah, yeah, but... But, yeah, but... ...amble, that, to be done...

...tusual, you,... So, so it's like, like, it's just a lot of it. It's just a lot of, it's just a lot of business. Namain't-value-ed-a-dustle-communication, but, actually, but, but,

but, the name name's phone, that people, people, people, people, people, I've been heard from,

from August. That's cool, that's six months, like, even, that, that, it's obvious, like, wow,

that, that, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, just to help out-atom

the time to work-com because of the time has to out-gone traffic, so we're making out-the-phone from Hong Kong to Indonesia want to be made from Indonesia to Hong Kong. So we're doing to do it. The way to do it is that the way to do it is the way to do it is.

With the way to be the telephone to-sana that. It was one to quick, that. So, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, we're trying to try out of production house.

We're japaning. We're just right now. We're just about, we're doing it. We're just about, we're doing. Up to get up. It's also oaky-oky-an, so, I think,

I'm going to be one of my business, that. Because if you're going to be focused, work, serious, this, this is there, there's just a job.

Inshallah. So, same thing. So same thing. Not ever think about the barren. When I think about bigir, to make them market electric. We're making themaget district. Then we're going to make a market district.

Where was it? At least, it was a crisis, so. So, it's still big, right. The risk is high-in-money-lawed-lawed-lawed to Japan-a-huh. We've said to go to China.

We should go to China. We're going to travel in China. Cary perusiness, for the United States like that's right to be able to be it's not even if they're they're making it's right if you have batu barra not that chief have to buyouti barra not if they're not if we're saying no produce bathebara many China yeah but we're new policies it was 2000 2003 policy that we're saying and even because it's too much more than that's enough to

logic clause is better for us from Indonesia, if you have, we've got to be italy. Oh, excited too, Chief, she's. He's been saying, this again, deal yeah. Why don't you buy? He said, we'll have to be able to advance payment, chief. They're kind of, you know, we thinker, not pay the debt, we're not going to dovet we're.

That's, yeah, at the end up, not just with China. Yeah, malan we got to end up, byer with Korea. and that's how we started the energy. And, ahemulah, and you were still a banker. You know, that's at all the time. Yes, you help us, you know, to raise fun, yeah, right?

So it was fun, you know. Now, matter of the day, you look, look at keyhift. We've been, yeah, baby. Well, back to barra was everybody, wow, and now, we've got, we throw the cycle of the business. So today, we've changed our company. to a different strategy. that's a placid.

What's to presset? When it was when it was when it was when I was going to do with what? One thing, I think, or what I think, I, that I, I, I, I think, I, I think, I, I think, I, I think, that's, I'm going to give up. Yeah. Cannot it were that, because I think of, that, that's, it's, yeah, that's, it, yeah, that's, it's, that's one solution.

So, never give up. So that's... And I'm always... I'm thinking, you can do it. You can do it. You can do it. So, and I believe in that kind of energy. So if, if energy, that positive, I'm sure, it's not going to be positive.

Because if energy positive, I'm thinking, really talking from the heart. Yeah, from the heart. Yeah, from the hearty, that. So, yeah, that, not ever, I just feel this. Sometimes when I was there, people who are up, what I'm at, oh, we've got, we don't make it. Because at that we issued the first bond.

Which is, I guess, actually, also, asic, too. So, because ownership, can't 46%. You know, issue bonds, that, right? Yeah, yeah, the junk bond, minority, every kind of, ownership, such a much, but, but then, where's more than what, where's the way,

we made it. Brazil. We made it. We made it. We made it with ownership that's got, uh, partner we're,

because dividend, right, and it's guaranteed guarantee. So, yeah, there's just there's just,

chief. I believe that. So, so far, inshallah. Yeah. You, you know,

energy positive it's been so, long I'm know you. Thank God. positive thinking, I've got I've never, yeah,

not perna, I'm not, that's more, you know, that's what, you know, that's not. Maybe, yeah. Because, and that, I'm just one, I'm going to,

I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm not pern't, I'm going to be a man, but I'm not sure, but I'm not saying, not pern't, chief, because I do believe,

of the matter, which I think, very hardly, chief, yeah, yeah, right? Unite diversity, which is, for me, is a better-in-present-presentive. It's the power of different. And we have to be able to. So, that's not going,

see, going, see, sootally, because because I always always know-in-lawed-tentara, you know, say, man, wow, it's... So, why, it's... So, wac-want. So, it's... So, really, better. So, that's...

That's what I always remember that's about, that's the same thing. So I never thought about that, it's been able to, it's okay. That's not like, for people, to, you know, to be successful as a person.

For me, yeah, lo. It's, it's not gonna be able to, I mean, I think, I believe that's what I'm if you're that's about that's being agile so that's being agile so that's when I think back, say what is my leadership

this? I'm saying what is my leadership in the ASA. Asa, ASA is a person has a leader, it's always able to give up to the power. To be subordinate, but it has to give us to be able to be on the latter because as you go up the ladder

you're only, who else can't even be able to make haraparer to make energy positive that. Now, as a-a-na-authentic, S-n-n-s-n-nual-E-nial-A-niality. So I do believe that

authenticity is important, authentic leadership. Just being who you are, who you are, who's just. Because now, people, want to be in jodotting, I say, don't, don't, you know what I'm going to do. You know, you're going to be.

But don't follow, that's going to be able to, don't follow this, you have to build your own. Because we're all, we're doing, manusia, God, mayasani,

give us leadership that. So, authenticity is important, I thought I. That is creating of positive energy that's how I believe. And spirituality. Now,

this is important, because we have to have values, even the company. So I learned when I learned like that, Chief, chief, that business is

much much, chief. How do we tight everybody's? It's with values. If we have alignment of values,

I'm sure to the person on, that's the last I'm going to boss. When I asked in

my son, my son, when I'm going to call in. You must have alignment of values. I'm going to why.

Because in the United again again. First, my wife, my. You have to adapt each other. But in Indonesia, yeah.

The world of all over. Yeah. The values. But after that, if there, there's a more than PR, chief. What, he's a,

yeah, right. Because we're married thing in Indonesia, it's just husband and wife, but it's just a husband and wife, but it's, that's important, so I always say to my children,

one thing I learned, like I in this values. You have to align. Now, back to the other than we're saying, we're going to our own values, what do you believe? Perusan, even if I say, I'm saying, if I'm saying, all this important, business plan is great,

but values must be defined. I agree. And that is, I think, very important. So, spirituality, to define that values, that. Then the other thing, agility, which is, on my mind, is always three words, adaptability, innovations, and resilience.

So, so, so that we had to business just, yeah, we must be agile just. We just now, Chief. We don't know, come on the pandemic of the situation. Right, because of the situation. Now, because of the United, Indonesia, has to be agile. So I think it's important,

on top of the other, for the generation of the current modern year. You've got mimpin Indica already, quite, can. Yeah, jive. And 2005, we're going to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able. success. What's what? What's if you're going to do you're going to do?

What's going to do? So, so it's more great again. Okay. Balakness is a manusia. Using the right people. Yeah. I think foundation of organization is back back

to the people. Yeah. Human capital. So, So you don't know, you have to make, a soccer team. Yeah, right? Yeah, can, there's strikernerner,

there's vendors, not be able to, not, it musty, and it musty, you know, it's just upon, you know, that's just for me, that's the problem that it's been gampanked, so we'd gampangin, the airstrearer, we'd, gulfaminkering, we'd be able to-in, this, not did do it,

complicated, it's it's hard to beaum. And if you have to again, it's like, it's changed of punishment. It's a bit more. It's a change of punishment. It's been changed. So it's not gama. Designing, designing the organization from the beginning is important. And that's also, if we're doing book in, oh, yeah, acusisit, too, we see, see, try people.

This is to see, this, but. But because we're not. But because of it, that's what's about that's about that's about that's okay. So, so if I want to go back, maybe, now, this one, I don't know, I'm going to be able to, boss, Obie. Placiarian obi, but I'm malice, that. But at the end of the day, it's the most matters, boss. It's the most matters, boss.

Some way to behavior, organization it, yeah, right? And, like a CEO, dealing 50% of people. Yeah, yeah. So, maybe designing a better, that is going back to 2005, maybe many people

that would be able to getto-tourning that at the time. If design, the organization, it's finding the right person at the right position, don't jeopardizing, like, chintai,

like, okay, so-killer, not-pap-lap-l, But, yeah, but at the end, we're just because of the end, we're just for sure. So whatever it is. This, this is, this, I think, it's going to take,

it's often in a country, titic-temuantara power with talenta. Yes, yes. Yeah, right? Yeah, right. Not optimal. No, I agree.

That's at least. That's the level of governance, the level of the level of the pepimpinpinpinning. Mm. Yeah, right? Yes, yes. What's the fix? Obat's what,

this? This is revolutionary, like, this. If we're going to be able to be able to context politics, for example, yeah.

This, kind of, if, this, is, we need to be able to puting the right person at the right position.

Yeah. So, he, at the end of the end of the day, you know, I can't be able to know someone who's not not even if I'm notary certain, let's say, the military, let's be able to, but you have no track record at all, in context that or have to have expertise, or whatever, competencies.

In other, back then, to the business, also the matter of the human capital today. But just, so much So, let's getakhaned let's be it's the right, because it's always there are bargaining political. But it must be able to be able to be

back again. And it's not making that, you know, bagi-baggi-mentri, but put the right person. So, give the criteria that first from the first. Yeah.

So, yeah, we're trying, like, here. Yeah, can't, try it. Yeah, can't. But we're spakati like this, if you, if you're not bad for the other, yeah, which is, that's the way,

which is, back, it's about back to the country that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, so I think, moving forward,

I think, this, I think, this is, what I'm thinking about is about democracy. Yeah. So we have majority of democracy we have Yeah, okay, 945, we're never decad. Yeah, right. At the time, how much more than bongued banks, right?

Bungarno, can, make sure, man, and so forth. and so forth. and so forth it was making up. And then at the time phases is before that, he's actually, because of my understanding, he was made the same thing that's beencana.

It's 100-tahoon, pemmikirang, yeah, right, right? Amazing, if I was, and that, I was really, I'll read, I'll be able to be it, there's 16 books, yeah, can, point together.

I'll share with you when I'm actually writing the book about the same thing I'll share with you. that's how much about 600 people are people be made by Mungarno to make sure of a hundred years. Amazing, until he'llolakkan

in the world of many different ways of two countries. This is 50s, yes. Late 50s, oh, mistaken. But, but, actually, it's good, good enough, actually, good, actually. And then what you What's the other than what you

And then after that, right? So, after Hartoe, comes into power And so, the semester of rencala, elaned. Outer of repelita, planning, and so many, so,

that, well, I think, so, good, so, so, that,

what, like we've got to talk about this this, the most of the I think when we look at politics and the same thing, back to, back to, back the to how much business planing, after that, the right person at the right position

position to make a lot of this. Same thing with politics and government. In the, the, if I look at, yeah, the company that's man upon that is sustain, that is a person

that's, you know, and then-nors-nors-n-n-n-cableness human-capital development and how they can selects talent to be based on meritocracy. True, true. And I agree. I agree.

Yeah, I've been lennox. And, yeah, right? Yeah, like, one person technology, like, Blackberry, yeah. That, is, that's, but, too,

candace-necundas-ne-ne-cud-y-pid-pac-pac-pac-cabbing. because hubris or if I'm like this, if I'm like this, because I'm afraid talk about, I'm not saying, but I'm saying,

but I'm going to transform to just. Yeah, that's true. We have to transform all the time, what's about, with the other, that's quite, we have to be able to be agile,

can, agile, it's being, you create transformation, So, so continuous transformation. That's back to the idea, chief. That's, we did, too, if we had we used to adjust, and adapt to the situation. Once we're not, it's jade, like BlackBerry.

That's, that. And then, that's a lot, right, like, chief. Yeah, like, so. So, now. You, how can't, be able to, just, agile? Now, so, what? What's the thing you've been in?

Yeah. Yeah, no. Because if you're not Echal, if you're not asa, if you're not asa, the child you'll also be able to set. That's, it's, that we're going to be, we must be it to beaweigh, to be it and that's not too much.

And it's to be tanam can through, that change that is something that we keep transforming. We keep transforming. We can't just be able to because, because of manusiness is the most but I'm just a good fear of change that it's

fear that has to rank and so that's the idea that's being called on leaders can't look at leaders right and so with you know this is able to this this one when we're adopted to uh... i4 industrial revolution 4.0 digitalization few years ago, how about four five years ago like that four five years ago like that

At that we think about it. We must be more efficient. We have to do it. But if we have to do it, if we don't do it, with real numbers, that's just not only pro forma only, but bottom line,

that seriously, we'll do something about it. That's, it's actually, it's been a result. At least, we did one of a company. At least we did one of a company And then we're at one site we'll make sure that's about it. For the time,

for that's it. Oh, no, no, it's actually, $1,000 per month. $1,000 per month. $1.1.1.1. Why? But, but we, but we're, because, this, because,

because, this, it's, okay, this one pit, lost, but with the other, we're gabblinging it. But how to make this pit so far as profitable the way. The way we used it. Passucan,

now, so-called technology this, we'll try out of it. And then, to getier the, you know, so, yeah, so, yeah,

we're trying to we're playing, it's more heathed than the pria. Because when the focus it's, more, jeff, so,

so, so, so, so, the, women, uh, the, the,

but we had we had that's all the but we've got to work and such a lot of much. It's just to be, what I mean, we did transformation. Awelled but again, let's do it. And in the CEO's also, you know, okay, let's do it. After this, this, after this, you know,

no, no, chief. It's, so, it's the end up, so, making money. Why? What, it's, it. It's about But even though And what I'm about it's about It's about it's about

It's not able to get Got to get back, that's going to be But but because it's true Tenata, we can't bring up again Risk killing

and stuff And so much That's the Other than As a lot Yeah, wow Gatting, this

And then they're They're also Right, competitiveness Eh, Oh, this is it And then you've got to try and then the whole company transformed for digitalization.

So, so, that's, that's important, because people just fear. And with that, because they're just pepeck. This,

not can't be able, innovation, yeah, so. So, so, so, kempininin'n you, is kind of,

with, how you can democratization can, communication, yeah. Yeah. So, the Uyahua, to say what you're about what you're

about what you're going to be able to do you're going to. That's important. That's important, sir. That's when I was back to BNICA we, we're saying, so with that, everybody has been able to be able to know. Abis that, after that's different, better, maybe. But if we're not, if we're going to be able to, this we're going to get powerful, right?

Yeah, that's what it's been used to. If you've, because, you know, it's not so on. I'm like, you know, but what's the matter. That's it. You know, and we thought, we're reminded like, people's opinion,

like that. Did, with that, with that, Chief, very much, I think. I'm going, I'm going to

take, you've got to make a goal or objective that's, yeah? No, not,

yeah. That's, yeah, bold, about carbon neutrality. Yeah, right? This is a big of the way of innovation. And transform like that.

Yeah. That's how, how, how, so. Because, to make sure to make sure in the neutrality of carbon, in 2050 or 60, the power of Indica

or the power of Indonesia, not gampangang. Not gampang. Yeah, right? And we've got committed 2050, net zero. that's true,

that's not, not be it, don't know, don't be able to be because if it's hard, yeah, just that's,

let's see. Yeah, let's reach the bar. We're saying, okay, if I'm going to run to the endings, the ending of going to how do we get there? Right?

We'll get only. We exercise it. Because of the way, we're not, we're like, the black, the sun we're going to start transforming to be it, how much, but but, but, but, but, but, we say,

how much, we say, how much, we're doing, now, diversification that we're doing there. Let's commit to that. Afterness, now,

actually, has been running to sustainability today. But, but it's been There's also cash flow. The same is not good, but cash flow is good,

but it's cheap, but it's true, but we look at the solar business, we'll look at the solar business, we'll look at the same time, it's just two, two times, the one of the United States, that's gila,

so I'm going to say, yeah, it's all right, maybe the way we think different, this, this isala. This is the main problem line, but thinking it is Weirutification of

of equity of the value that's 50 even though, even though, even profit in little. Now, that's way of thinking of the different, but, can, it's going to be able to

challenge, but I just bring in mix between consulton from from the team from our team from our team from we're up, yeah,

and then bring in, yeah, expertise, yeah, to be it. Now, just the way, organization is so. But the but the most important, the

chief, because at the end, we have to decide. And the end, the end up as far as has to be able to putusan the decision. I, I think, I'm premis per capita this, or

discussion this, with, what, yeah, data electrification, we know. This, can, 1,300 kilowatt-hour per capita. She was in a lot of the market listric, 75 giga, one. Yeah, right? If I'm going to eatung,

for Indonesia, this is still perkemean, and it's never-needed electricity per-or-oh-oh-hour per capita. 5,000-6-a-kilow-hour per capita. It's like it. It's been aftly-li-lis-li-lis-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-li-old.

Yeah, 75 giga, that's been built. you, we've got to 5a, we have to 500-gigua again. Yeah, with technology that's new-carry-a-bara-l again, that's kind of, or more than-six-million-dollar, data that's about. It's not going to be a lot.

GARY. GARY, get. And if we're 25 giga giga that's been given technology that's new-per-lawed yeah, you know, that's just about, you know, 2 million per

megawatt, it's-and-naut, it's $150 million. So, you need, how much, $5,600 plus $150. It's not $U.U.D. I mean, in the end-un-in-in-in-d-d-d-d-ful-us.

No-ful-lis, no money, yeah. We're not so we're aspirationality carbon in 2000 or 60, but how much more than 600, 700 million dollars. Yeah, not the first we said, first we're talking neutrality, neutrality. Yeah, naturality, that's, chief, bicarantia, plus minus. Yeah, yeah, palm.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's a lot, yeah. Yeah, minuses in a lot. Yeah, that, that's, can, you know, and we're going to beauch. This, so, that's a bigotry. So if you're more realistic, not zero. But if you say real stuff.

As you said, though. Now, but but we're talking about this, first, we're going to what? What is our energy mixing? There's a discussion nuclear. But I don't know about nuclear. Nuclear, right? No, I go back to this, Chief.

The question is more important. Energy security or energy sustainability? Security, must. Take German, don't, Chief. Germany decided, what you know, that's what happened. Gas, all the way to happen. Gas, all that. Now, back to us.

I think the first question must be data on the energy security we have. We have we have we have we have watered, we have gas, we have the sun, for solar, we have, we have hydro, and air that's like,

al-Termal, yeah, right? Now, we have to fix the more, the morality where. And, and, we're just,

we're just, just, you know. That's first thing, first, it's, that's, because the thing, that's, that's

I believe that if you're attractive if there's what's there's up to give there return and the end up there's and money not coming to try oh

money is for me money is pinter where there's opportunity that's right there has to come back so that's okay so what's important so that we're having

that we're having clearly plan. That's the way that we've got made a roadmap Indonesia, 2004-5. That's right to say, we need to have a route map, we're going to be able to

keep, if you're going to be able to be and thenceeing. Where do you want, and that's in here. So, so, chief. So, so, back to basic in the way, back to basic in the world,

because, because it's complicated for we're just like gigawatts. Oh, don't get me wrong. I justru to go, to beaugh-weigh-hurted, that's the power to be-outamarked. But what paradoxal is, the people-temann-a-hle-sustainability,

ibarat-cata we're-mach-a-cata. We're not sure we're notheral-it-s without any realism on-a-regnay in-necounter-be-en-a-cene-in-a-old, that's-an-a-laping. And how we can't that's about

data-billy we can't we're not can't pay more than $0.000 per kilowatt. But if we're going to pay nuclear, it's up to $20. Solar, $1.20. 0.2.000. This is the same.

Absolutely. That's point my just, so. So, so much. We're still making money. We're justinging on Rakeet first, you. That's just making realistic,

like, so. So, so point my if I'm going to talk about you're going to lecture, you've been able to run in biaya. Yeah, even I push them to lowering the payahs per kilowatt. Because this, resonantziness to, the, you know, resonantziness

to the majority of population the population, 85% of the population. Satuc. Now, it's that, right, is the discussion we can JETB, yeah? Just any agency? Transition Partnership. When you look at the when you know what that,

the discussion from from the U.S., it's my experience that. I've got to be a matter which very environmentally which is for environment when you're saying,

how do you say people are in Indonesia, this, people are people who are this, this is that go back. Wadho, there's a good

going to be shut down now now. Enagli, no, I'm not like that. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm going to be able, boss. Yeah.

Yeah. Back. We can't be able to be able to get, if, chief, I'm going to be able to get. But, but there's many things. Biccarat we did, and then, actually, can't realizeationing what's going to be.

There must be a way out, that's how, how, being out, and this is going to be. It takes time. Takes a lot of money, that that's the same. Now, that's the important thing is the same thing. So we have to

have our own plan. Don't hang out of the way from the world. The most end of the bottom line, yeah. Right? Now, we should take a look at this in the in the context of this, in the way, we talk about sustainability, we talk about sustainability, we talk about totality Indonesia, too, Chief.

Partionation, the question of carbon emission and the biggest, we have three, there's kind of transportation, yeah, because of the electric, chief. Okay. This is all out of carbon emission. Yeah. Now, if you're talking about, first we'll see, like, in fact,

when we're going to be, quote, when we did, yeah, remember, we saw, look at Jakarta, the blue sky, everything was fine? Yeah, right? Salute, we're the most cotor, to Jakarta. Like, yeah? And so much, like, like that's like that.

But try, people forgot. Wartu, that, pandemic, even public tutored? No, yeah. Jalan. What, the public, the public,

it's going to be. You know? What is the truth? It's been a good word. Cumbarer. Because, because of mobility stops. Yeah, almost stops.

So if you look at the other, Oh, it's the cost of accommodation, right? Now, if we're going to look at the district. Taddy kind of said power, industries, and transportation. Now, we'll look at the one of the biggest. If this is not going to be the size, okay. How do you solve this problem? Right.

Yeah, right. Now, in this cation this, okay, that's like the electric, right? I totally agree with the electric. So we're not looking at sustainability, only scope, boss. So if we're talking about strategy, we're talking about this,

totality strategy, all. The end up the momentary, emission. Net zero. Yeah, right, right? So, so we must be looking at thisana. Approach this is this. This is the same thing,

and people, and everyone's justicantam. which I think everybody agrees the two things is the same, let's work together and that's, with, with the time, as soon as far as,

that's up to electric vehicles, that we have to push it, so, so, we have to push it, we're going to, energy security,

we're not import to fuel, yeah, at the same time, subsidi to fuel, also can be is a chief. like, right,

but, you know, many things, situation, and ecosystem new, like, for businesses to grow with ecosystem industry, this, so, so,

so, so that's one thing. So, so I'm not that is, not we can't be not only one thing. So, so, we have to look at as a whole

country strategy, that, that's, I said, must be, there chief sustainable officer, we're in

in the government. Even level of the matter of focus, if you're going to look at it, chief. So, so that's the totalit. Not-bisca, chief. Now, this is, kind of, we're trying to make sure. But we're in a lot of the same thing. So if we're clear, in the next 25 years, what do we want to do? Let's move forward on this first.

Industrialization, we can't. Now, time, industry, when buy, when business, machine, machine, baru, KPEX-as, but I've got to say incentive, for the new-baru-bure-git. If you're not, if you've been, if it's a big, too, because of bankruptcy, I mean, so they must have to be.

So, I think, that we're going to do. We do that. So, we're going to look at it. Now, sedancting, the same thing that we've been planned it. So it's the, the same way that's not but we move forward

with renewable energy but now this is about the barat talk ultra super critical because it's all this chief this we have this power plan

right this power plant we're the first power plant now that 610 megawatt that that's it's called

super critical So technology. So they're about it's pretty much of the cleaners. Now, the technology has been ultra-super-critical to be able to be able to

more. Right. Now, for JetB in, example, we can't, this project we're, Chiv.

Mustin'n't, if we're looking this, the, the lastangan, mustin'n't the more than, the more than

the matikin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, this is going to be back again. Now, now, now, now, now,

because we've got to see, like, so much, we're taking, you know, we're taking the way to give us a solution a certain. Because I'm looking at it, like, firing just. Now, so on, so, so, so, that. So, so. Now, so, it's, not I'm trying to get away from the, this. Spank. But, but...

Transsissioning here is, it must be thinking. Dipikirin. So, yeah. So, so. So, so. So, we have to think about the transition strategy overall. Yeah, the powering how much, transportation, how much, industriality,

how much. Now, this is that we're looking at one a lot map that's clear. So, so people, so people, not come back,

Chief. Now, I'm going to be a fullest, this, Malau. No, Flus. This,

if we're looking, Rationuang breader. Mm. I like this, because this is one of your ininative. Yeah,

I'm about the paper my name Uanguehers, pastar model perbanking to be that ratioing masings by 50% Yeah, right.

Yeah, right. Yeah. So, you know Mugueh back like what? So long duet that's only only 45% from PDB

there. There's catarbatasked structural, or not want, you have you you need out of the world. Yarneduit from out, you can't be able to be inunders. Or it's notamand mona

non-a-cuitary-a-critic, I'm not going to be able to be king. Yeah, right? If you're going to look at, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, that FDI per-onang per-a-o-tourtour-toum. just $100 to $100,000. Singapore, $19,000.

Argument that's the same thingapura is a country not true. Because, in fact, in fact, 2001, they got $105 million. After Singapore, that's name is Indonesia, that's only $30 million. Yeah, right? So, so far absolute and relatively,

Singapore, that's a fact. Sikunga, that's a fact. Singapore, she, he, he's not be deliology that's what. He's not need to be worried about geography, ideology, there's some of the alam or not.

But, people are not doing in Singapore, is because of with the system. Yeah, can? Moogunay-nobungaer endah, Dool-dhoma, in Indonesia, how much percent, in the atasn. Now, this, I'm in order to be, you know,

we're not going to, we're not, we're trying to be able. That's just, that's just the fact that. It's just, yeah. So, it's a key, so much. And, not always, brany. It's a formula for Indonesia, to be in the country, Chief. No other way, sir.

That's, it's a key. So I'm what I'm not only? Duet, too. Duit is like water. He's notary. Yeah, yeah. But gravitasi, this definition of penanguagued the rule of law.

The enforceability of rules and regulations. Totally agree. And the paradoxal is the money is more more. Mackay, Sivin, I don't know, this, but yeah, but yeah,

We're not we're not put up to talk about we're going to talk about. That's the point of it is the, the point of the person, chief. I'm not here to promote people.

But I'm trying to this, this, this, that's the connectivity to run up it too. Because we're doing, we're doing, we're doing, Chief, in Indonesia.

What is the desire, what is the desire, what, what's the, what's the, that's, that's the most, that's, it's the most,

out of the people, chief, greek balladik, greek, the three main things, right? What is, one, the pathang of the workerjian, yep. The second.

That is, it is a pedopatant and cost of living. So, how can't be able to be able to be cost of living, don't too high, up, the three.

that's real. It's real, though. Survey that's so much of the people, our own people, desires that this is

the time. Because one capacity of the law, one, chief. Two, chief. The passion of the law

on the top of the set. And the no one of the end. At the law, right? So, we have to take that step. Now, the country is also must be transformed. Tried 1948, we've got reformation. Yeah. I'm not saying a negative reformation. But, but it's not going to have to be a negative reformation. But it's not

But as a leader, musty, we're going to say, let's do it. And it takes God. That's true, that's true. And musty have what, Chief? Sorry, that's I'm going to say, that's again. Not that's got to beagage. Yeah.

Now, that's important. There's a good hand, see. There's a good hush. Now, that's why not because But that's sure. And now, man, man, can't clear. Just only matter of economy and the hookup. Two, this.

So, if we can correct this, so we're talking about. We're going to say, we're going to be inundas 2004-5. Yeah, Chief. When we're doing this, for we can't, number four or five,

six, leh, economy. That's the economy growth team is up to seven percent, chief. If not, not can't, Chief. You know, I've got to have a lot of the Aisya Tengara, not-uasa, not-ascairah, I agree. Yeah, right? Berdasarcaut, the most...

The amount of demographic, scale, and scalany. But, this, many who not sader, that baseline we're 5%. Yeah, right? But this, with the application artificial intelligence, blockchain, genomics, energy storage,

robotics. I don't know. You know, Chief. There's got to be. You know. So, you know. So,

so, so, so. So, back. Yeah. Malaysia, Thailand,

Vietnam, Philippines, and Indonesia, that FDIA only $100 $400. That's because perception

that's, that the negatheaval the negathe that's about the negathecum in Singapore. True. We know it. If we're not at Singapore, the rules work. Yeah, yeah.

And system is trustworthy. Yeah. If we're not going to bring, because they're going to be able to see that. Tuckut, boss. You're thinking. And this is how to we can't make up perception in the out?

Because of the money is, in the world. And if I'm under the Uang Breder, that's the Ullar Indonesia, that's $100 trillion dollar. Gila. Gila. And this, can, before 20-bulon-the-laloo,

this is just the environment that the environment that's the above 1%. But, now, now, now, it's not pastcha normalization,

Anguptal the two the two years that's uprored again, inflation, you've been d'aughaned in America and the country and the government majeu. This is duet or liquiditats

this will be home, yeah? And I'm more believe to be sure to be solosic our needs

to to makeperceipat transisi energy to energy the new can't. I think it is more,

So just don't look at, one is energy transition. But but Mr.Sysla, sustainability development as an overall bigger picture. Because it's going to go ahead. So, yes, energy transition is key forward. Now, Taddy back back again, Jif, for people who are back, right?

It's trust. So first is that the leadership is important. So, so that Indonesia has continued of government, I'm glad I'm glad brought Indonesia so far as this, in this way, in the context economy. Kepercianooga, yeah,

the world to be it. Now, this is, this is. So, whatever that we have to be sure is, not until tracier, be able. Now, this is this is, making sure that,

that's not the pacient hook. but capacity of the capacity of the capacity chief, chief. So, we've got to be the government of the world. One of the Americans who's not, the election, we're direct. So, you know, miling her by electoral college, we're direct, that, chief.

Now, this, this, democracy, we need to make sure our democracy this is the right good, then pick the right leaders who have integrity, have values that very much, can't bring up to a lot of this, because, back the truth, Chief.

And I'm going to do with something that's going to make sure that's about how much of the law and make sure of it. I thought that's important. I think that we're not terjebuck with definition democracy is semata distribution of power of the power of the just.

I just, yes, yes. I'm more than democracy liberal to be definisiccine in context public goods to the community one,

one, the public power and vote, lewet voting, one man, one vote, one vote, mulia,

but also in context the public goods, termasue intellect, termasuex, and soxacetyaan, to beaumassocial,

that's in terms of the way, more than the definition of democracy liberal. Now, this, if, in front we're in person, how much, how mucher, that's the world-lawfulas, it's um, intellectuality that's the same,

and caretale and life social, nilay moral. Beto. No, I totally agree. So, back it's, so, I totally agree. So, if you have someone who's... who's

people who's educated productivity that's new innovation and innovation and stuff that's what that's better for this

for this because we're not we're really have been really have been able to care best to make beliescan

health we're balancing education while we develop the industry yeah that, that's that's about back, that's about back,

we must have to the next 25 years, if you've got to be, you know, that's going to be, work so well, because I mean, it's, and the time of the other, and the time of them backun, there was, um, banged with some of the, uh,

the, uh, beencansan, uh, but, but, but, but, that's not done, Parato works at Repelita. I mean, we have to say it works, that's five-torn and and such a lot. The GBAN and so much. Sejave, after reformation,

not there's not yet, right, right? Now, this is we're going to beershinga the fundamentally-in-git-y-you-weakened. We, let's see, we'll, we'll fix the foundation. I totally agree with you, the matter of democracy.

we said. It's about it's about distribution of, yeah, we're back in, we're the statera'an, kemapurant, this, we're talking about, Chief. Yeah, right? But, this will not be

up. So our focus should be economic. And then, the adelaan and kakuran this only can't be because of course of the law. So, so that there's...

And then, today... There's revenue. But if you can't happen to be safe. I'm not today. So how to increase the five to seven, yeah, for eight or four. And we need to push it to.

And this, this is that because we're mused. We're always un-tung, this. But this is aty-haty, don't get to think, it's un-gantangangangangangana, Indonesia,

un-tung, bruce, that. Hey, guys, no. This, I'm like, I'm like I'm like to beajar in the world

and that's being being usedalcating, you know, ishistoring. What reshoring? Offshoreing. Offshore. French shoring. Which,

which, CEO, multinational from Europe, America, to be thinking to to relocation from Tijuana. Yes, yes.

because, yeah, you can't tensi that's more than this. And this intuition they're too, that'sa-tankara, this, is very robust. But if I look at data, investations' this is not beralik to Asia-Tengarah. So, I'mest it, like, though. If there's a one-nagra-to-vietnam, and Vietnam, if I'm, if I cupas,

he's bullet medebankingual proficiency stem for the kids of 15 years score pisae that's number 2 in Asia Tengar after Singapore

That's amazing Yeah, yeah Yeah, don't know Tau 5th, they're still in utan We'reang We're gonna gaii We're gonna gawpi

And, right, right But, but again, But, but, but, but, lip-legged and the Uyghur the Uyat-Nem as a basis manufacturing

the world of factored after Tiochuk. And I can't see what I'm going to notice modal, yeah? This is the thing I'm not talking because I'm still in

actually, yeah, actually, chair of ASEAN, right? For business. Asian, right? when I'm I'm notar, and I'm all the different countries what you said, that's

when you said, is when you said, it was, when you said, it was down. Yeah. Right. So, the, it's true, must have been used to,

there's original supply change. Right? And actually, we're, quite so, wow, quite especially, Indonesia and Asian this. But asian, I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I'm not Indonesia

but Indonesia musty amy the position this is how I see it. Because the business is too. And when I talk to the leaders of Asian, they're not, Indonesia. Take that position. You are our big brother. By population, we are the biggest, that. They need that leadership.

Take. Because what? There are opportunities. Why is the same-sumns? What you said is now, now, now, it's now that's now Western country, U.S. and and, and all the same-machem-in,

with the Pacific, all the much, this is basically, this is basically, and we have to take this opportunity, like that. Now, this, we've been talking about, we said, we said, let's say, energy transition, right? This is opportunities.

Because one day, there was a senator from the U.S. It was from Illinois, right, came to Indonesia. He, what name is, the father of U.S., the mother of Vietnam, I forgot. But okay, he was a senator there. Illinois representing there.

He'd come, he'd come, hey, this only, I need, I'm going to solar. He said, what? He's a solar panel, all the kind of, like, this. Why? I don't you know what I'm going to buy. Because of China all.

But after that, you know that? Gara, the gara, yeah, right? In America, it's not there

incentive, they've blown. And then, after that, we're, there's back state, this, there's also

incentive, there's more, chief, they've been, come, don't, Indonesia to be there. J.

Do you, no, to us, we're, GIF. Now, we're in the opportunity, because of the opportunity,

because of the digital supply change, that's an opportunity to connect, for energy transition, not only looking at Indonesia. Tadded Indonesia, maybe if we're going to be if we're going to be able to be better, this opportunity,

right. So, so, with the nature resources that we have, and now I've already to talk value added and so forth, it must be push, and must be brany,

I think that chance Soar panels we have the We have the Passer Silica to make them out of We know, we have to beauxite for aluminum, all right, so.

So, we have to dare From, we have to be able to Amiga, bant to, me, I do your supply change. And we'll start, all the way, your supply change. Bantu us, he's all the way, I'm not there, man, man, man, it's the ball move, chief. So, and today.

I'm, I'm sure. But I think of the pastien. Capistia, could go. Correct. This is back again. This is going to beckle backer. Bicholing to say, Chief. If we're going to give us, if we're going to be able to make sense of money,

investment, I'm going. I'm going to imagine, if you're going to be sure of, that you're going to be sure of dollar per one per year to $1,000,000, Singapore $19,000. Yeah. FDI we have per time, we're $300 million.

You can't be able to make sure the public that's built in Indonesia? Smelter, fabric, industrialization we're,

the, jarum's, it's, will be able to $30% to. But, back to say, yeah,

there's been about, we're doing, realization, this organization. This is, because we, We're like

When it's like energy transition Like that's like that. Seneneng nickel Yeah, all right here's Like to nickel Yeah Like to be able to barra

I mean that's how You know FOMO FOMO FOMO FOMO BORM BORNORN Right

Buth Yeah, but I'm the people, so much as if you have dictates. Yeah, so. Yeah, can't. If not, then, over. Yeah, right.

Now, back to herein' it, the example, for the one is the way, there's also this. Don't forget about on agriculture. So, so, after energy

that was the machine, don't remember energy for manusia. Yeah. Pangan, yeah. Tannan.

Now, this is not, we talked about energy. Yeah. That's just learned. This is just around. Cacang. Trenuant.

Trenuant that's making gado-gado, that we're import, chief. I was surprised. You know, no. I'm sorry. You know what I mean? So, okay, we can't realize. You not forget, my.

We have to do that's right now. But, if you know, if you're not going to, casian, people, the industry that's been able to, because what? Because here you know what's happening where the government has to step in. Now, stepping in the

this is important. And, and make sure that the processerization that industry, because industry that's the world, the way, I'm going to be able to say, I'm trying to be.

I'm trying to do this. But it's fine, that. if you're going to buy them all. But don't love it, Chief. We've got to do you, Chief. Bantuin'i'i. If you're doing to, help in there. Soaping in there.

So, so. Back, back, again, let's find the right strategy. For all, Chief, with what? We'll ask you, what we've got to ask you. We've got to make up out. And from where to do you have out. And from there's it,

just so that's just. And it's... What else? What other, bro? Peta-keemassan. Ketka-Masan, that. In 2004-5. Taddy, if we said,

back, we're saying that's about food that's important. Pangan. Salat hangat, that's talking about health. That's also the industry that's important. Why?

This is, we're not doing if we're not going to prevention of health. BPJS. We're going to next. Oh, yeah. And we're not...

The can't... The can't... And also people are also. And also because of the world of life, because of the world, we're going to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be in the chief vote it to pass this. How much more than that in the past day, that's right.

Now, this is the way. So, so I believe, so, I think, I think, with digitalization in all aspects, in all aspects, the way, the sector, what the name,

health, Bicelchurcha, Chief. We've got to be it's been a lot of artistic, all things that's that, because it's a lot of musicians, right? If you're a lot of musicians, right? If you were like, it's like, terupacan. But if you were, I said, I said,

I'm going to give me money, boss. I just can't get paid music. He said, after that I'm going to be like, because of collateral, right? But if I, if I'm going to, if it, how can't, chickenin'X? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Now, with that, can't be it? Is it? So, yeah. Can, this, produce in the way, there's, because there's, there, there's more, just, the value.

Yeah, yeah. From the other, sir. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, yeah. Now, so, yeah.

Yeah. This, this is, We've got to make some of the formu actually, all over there. So, we need to remap out that's the last yearnoughts. We have to revive our baronage chief. So, today, yeah, some plan is okay.

But we have to make sure the bupennas our, that. Yeah, right? So, if we're just like, okay, the first, industrialization, what we're going to do, what we're doing, what we're doing, after we've got to be sure. technology what we need to the technology.

From the system of technology. That's what we're giving. We've given. We've given the university. The research is here. This is, you know, what? You're going to be. So, don't say, researches not there's.

The first one is what? Human capital. Skill. Skill, what, is. Because, that, it's funny. We know, we can't be able to give usherational. I just made into the democracy, yeah. that, chief.

I'm not really, chief. But I'm not really, because we don't have a plan. If we didn't have a plan. If you had to know, industrialization is what? Technologian is what? The technology is what? And skill what is in the next point in five years? Petal skill that, more than you must be able to make

vocation and some other, some of the same, for we do. For example, for we have to plan, yeah, right, Chief. So, if we're going to, if we're going to be a certain amount, just hantam just the right planning

that's the roadmap policy that we have we have to be able to be it's to be able to do you land then to be it's the example that's like Bappenas then there's central planning that back back Hartoe that was the maincoe

Ketua Bapernas, Mankoco Co, Proconumian, Chief. This is it to be able to look at and one other. Make sure if Bapenas that was aligned. And the what about the province, and the government,

now the budget that's right. There's a lot of, Javis, there. Waduk, there's, Javis. Wadukes, there, must be making assolarer of air, Chief. That, can't be the landana must be from the province, miscar.

Want distribution to there, maybe, can't bea put puttapotan Kota, Chief. If it's not aligned program if, Chief, wadgett this is there, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not there. And, chief.

And, and back to observation that I share. Selma, Uang, Bredder, there's already, it's only 45%. You do believe that, right? From, that's right? That's structural. Right. That's part-in.

It's, can manifestation from the money that there in the country that, that's in-bawat, like, in bank, like, in-mana. So, so, just, just, chief, is the question to the other than if you even more money.

Let's say. Yeah, digital yeah. Digitalized it. So, so maybe if we need to do it. I'm going to

I, I, I'm going to not too pro, to make a plongarion quantitative or cancetaken money. But if this is for the importance of the And we're bullet,

we're sure that we can't can't can't think you should do it. But, don't let's have from the penanguance to make what you have to be tegap, that's the hookum.

And I, I think, I think, that... I believe that that penaggaken that isas for actualization technology, actualization economy, actualization

actualization, actualization anything. You know, you're going to be a good technology, buda, without any of the law you, not even making actualizations attributes, attributes that can't,

yampong with our emasance we did in 2004, 5. I totally agree with you. Man an an idea, I said, if I said, if you were just two, economic, the law. And today, to make this,

This is too to Tos. You know, no, he's got to know, Patojala. He has a sociation. He's going to make up on survey. The kids are young. In the year,

what, what, is? What, you know, still, and, what, what?

What? What? What? They're not, they're not, they're not I'm this is there's

this this is there you this is there can PNs here this is this is this is from from the

people who who can't think about I'm gonna I'm skeptical about I'm gonna but the other than I

think that I'm that you that's the first that we're that we're human capitaliski health and death

Abis that that'shilaration because of the same, because what we can't necessarily corruption, we can't make a question. We can't make sense in the context that's right. So, it's right, chief.

In fact, 7%, Chief. And it's not a-brainer. No-brainer, chief. No-brainer. And so, so, I mean, I'm sure. So, I mean, because of, we think, too complex

or the meat of the meatrient of the question of the human being very, so, but for we're going to be able to be able to make sure, but I'm going to, after this, if you're thinking, if 100,000 people, that can be able to bea-ashing, it's not possible, not long.

For the world of our own. For the world of our own. Yeah, right. Yeah, and, and, and, and, and, the way out of the more than young in Indonesia, can be communicating back asing, they can't get money

if they're going to get. Gini just, Chief, don't even if you, can't, that's about the money from out to the that we can't be around because we have this world's

democracy. There's a program that we think of Markija. Let's get a work. That is how much Like, like, for Polytechnic, a year. He's two-torned two-year-old.

It's probably practiced, though. He'd just to give him. It's happening, Chief. So, we're going to give him to Europe. The country that's the most, you know, the country that's the most of it, the country that's anti-immigrants, a country in EU.

Belanda? Blanda. Bucan. Hungary. Hungary. Oh, yeah. Victor Orban. Very anti-immigrant,

he's like, if we can break hungry, we can break the other, yeah, right. So, it takes a six pounds on a year old. It's, until they're merriment of their. So, anyway, so, it's a lot of... Because we're from here, Chief. It's at a lot of course, right?

He'd be given, diggy, and, byer, and so many. He'd come to be able to get to certificat. EU standards. From there, vocation. Yeah, right? So that's like that's like that. So that's like that.

For this, this is this, you know, value for the value, for the value, for the name and the person, the name and the person, yeah, like this. I said, I was saying about it. There, now.

Now, there's a lot of it's going to be, well, this, now, we've got, right, we're going to be, but in the world, also much that too, right? Now, if we're trying the negara that, we're going to be able to be able to

language. As simple as English. Now, that, not more than 10% of population we can't be able to bea-engress. If that's... If the number one time last, I'd be retarded, I'm

aggatimist. But, now, with AI, this is accelerated the process. And I, we see, yeah, we copy it's Filipino. He's remittance is $40 million. And then the total $80 million. Dollar.

It's total $80 million. If we're remittances is $15 million. The sum of foreign workers' more than the number of foreign workers'n of the Philippines. It's, it's. It's more than the world. That's more the up in the value chain. Yeah, right?

Very true. So, yeah, it boils down to, Tadipatil, and then-whal proficiency. Wow, wadu. We can't. But that's cool, that's great-mank. But that's, really.

And, that's simple as English just in this. Or, that's a mandarin, the Basa-Gableness, in-bassian. The basis. It was, it was,

we're programmed with, if they're going to school in there, to be vocation, so they can't be able to, chief. Right. So,

right, so, we're back, I'm back back and we have 270 million people 80 million people now and that is actually worth for us to invest

on this human capital shift and I totally agree. Multiplication is that that's big thingy very. Then what's the same as simple as that, also that, also value kind of.

I'm I want to make the babbac terer here. Three paradox. Okay. Paradox internet which is the time

before decareda this will be equalization the people, but it'serat but it's this elitization Yeah, right?

He's democratization information, but he's not democratization idea. People have access to

information. But, I can't be idea sogampang be information and even if you've got to get information. And if you've got got idea, he can't be able to end upheld idleness because only people

who are there that have access to fullus. So this is making elitization, right? This is the sameestiness this is an equalization, but this is melitization. The second, paradox,

on the sustainability. Which, manan, who is elite-elit-in-monged. I'm not we're in the U.S. Mawks Mawks, we're not making, we're using batu-bara. Now, this is solosiccicant, the

The third, paradox AI. AI This, if I've got to be mind-a-a-lap, yeah, I'm malay, I'm not in Silicon Valley, this, technologists, technologists, this hubris' or arugansiness agarangues, it's a lot

big. He's not elibatkan al-a-buddaya, aalicumal, aal, ali-hli-hyshabilisphat so that he agabahed to be able to be able-sourced. Bahcan, now, if we're looking at open-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-old,

now it's closed-source, which is not-for-profit. So, I'm not-for-profit. I'm-focene-a-fittian. Not-bi-big-un-un-un-hut-un-hundity. This, you're as a pinpin in the other ushasaa,

look at the other than, I think, the most of the metric is genie coefficient ratio. This is how to turn, so, so it's not to elitization, so it's more

adil, but not not the solution, if, if I don't know, I look at it, like this, I've introduced this,

this whole five piece. Peace, prosperity, people, planet, and partnership. And this partnership with two Kaifat Indonesian values of Benica to Galica, University, and Gatoroyong, inclusive collaboration. Now, so the solution is about values. That's back. Back back. Back there.

This mindset is, Chief. Mindset is this. If we require for the prosperity, first is no peace, there's no prosperity. Why? Musiard to be able to be able to be in a economy, must be peace. Tampay had economic growth, where can't beaithrake.

So first thing is peace. Then talk about prosperity, with that. For the prosperity then we talk about people like this. Now, for prosperity, this is,

it's right, this is we must be made about, this way. This is we must be able to get commiskinan that has to be priorities.

This is we should see, this, this is the priority that's that if we talk about people then we have to make sure the people educated and all much

that. Baru, we're talking to make sure everybody, we all love, of the planet because we want to live long and we want to be healthy. Right. Then,

then, then, later than partnership. The end up here. The last year, that's the fact that's the fact that's better than that. And then, inclusive collaboration, which is inclusivity,

with the concept of living nobody behind. Now, Chief, this musty move, that's now in our economic situation, in the economic development in the world in the world of the world. Lupa

to instill it with values. Now, this is important, instillment of values into this. So, example, with you. I'm going to say with you, in the way of green deal, 2030. So I said,

is I'm going to say, is it, really, is it? And then you said, we agree, like, more than I musty green and, but for the company but for the company is quite because of the company

struggling boss challenging for a person small person small so much as well after that I'm going to when you're going to eliminate not to be able to not to come up and

come from doing you're like Europa don't get then we're human rights right no I mean but back back back again

whatever what they're what they don't think about the values is more values So, back back, boss. We're just to push, because of the argumentation we're talking about, about the truth of a lot of, loan, we're making project solar in Indonesia,

same in Bali, and in California. The one, the bunging of how percent, and one, the number of percent, boss. Yeah, right? Yeah, in there, more than, more. But, although, in this, we can, we need to be a problem.

Now, the question of the answer is, Now, now, like country risk or climate risk. If you're not, but if we say climate risk, yeah, same. Usia same, do you, we're just like, equalize all. If you're not, not yet, then the other than the other than,

more than that, more than that's going through this assembly, back. Back to the internet, mobilization, and it takes money. So, in my opinion, to solve those issues are, that we need to re-engage again.

Mankangangu, what's interesting, Chief. When you were there, this was there, for that's on the ASEAN, and also, when that was G20. When that we did make religion 20. Yeah, can't,

how we've said, speciality values did bring to business, economic, like, that, this, now, this, everybody just forgot, everybody just forgot about values.

So, AI, garrie, garrie, garrie, if there. Now, this we have to care of the values there. You said about it. So, now, what you said about that. And now there's a global movement, in which to make sure that,

how we instill values in our economic development. I think that's more sulite, after the other, but from the other between the country. Yeah, right? Bonjang, gansing, America, with Hong Kong.

What we're in Europe, Timur, what we're in Asia, but you've got the other than you can be communication to be communication

to all the other yeah, right? And that, if, I, I think, I'm going to be able to-dayakhan. for the U. I'm the U. back to the value, dear.

Yeah. But, because, not negative thinking about any of anyone anything. It's... It's... It's...

It's... Right, right. ...that, you know, the values of our own. That's, one other than we've loved, that, values our our... ...that, when you talk about

democracy, we talk about you're saying horrible... ...mushaura muvokage, chief. Mm-hmm. that's more than to becky to disagree. Agree to disagree is the most chief. It's not. We're not.

We're not. We're not at. We're just piquot, we're trying to find out. Now, this is just, you will tell, you will say, this, I think, I think, I think, I'm going to, hey, we're trying how, we're going to, right? Right, right.

Now, this, this is we're not. We're always, so liberal. With only simple, simple, now. All right, let's go see, bussing, pushing, with what you sure, but we'll be able to. We'll vote just, Chief. After it's not, after, the interaction that's true.

It's true, can. Communication, this, out of the world, we're trying unitingingingia. The two sides. It's not, not it's not. Because, you're not going to, you is me. You know, this is me. You know, this is a phenomenon that's

That's urbanization, yeah, right? In 10, 15-15 time, in the 20% population world,

that's, it's in urban, but problem with urbanization, the person, to be urban

or titicurban, it's communicates telemark. Sedang-k in sub-urban, it's they're more

prefer with interaction physical If you If you know, they're not too waya-weya-a-a-an Meningen to go-lough

like in a-wobri, you know what? When you talk about this urbanization, this is an interesting. You know, Indonesia, I don't know whether you realize this. Election, in 2004, yeah.

Majority that's it to be urban. True. And for me, that's It's interesting. And effect soft matte to be more yeah,

even about some of the press or process political. But it's back. Sorry, I'm,

so, clear just, I'm going to more, I'm going to make sure we're making difficult to

make sure because because of interaction physical. Yes. DikarNation. I disagree,

Steve. Okay. Yeah, you know, that's true. Yeah, you know, Because you, because you know, because of the nature. It's always, it's the way to be communication.

But globally, phenomenon is, the more people, too, less, less, more than, this. Yeah. Apalagi, they're, more than more than communicate with history. But, but, before, this,

what, can, it's, like, Zoom, zoom, this is probably communication. Yeah. Communication, too, Chief. Yeah. So I want to separate communication with the time.

It's true, but there's physical communication and same, what I'm the name of, communication, through Zoom, through digitalization, by video calls, and all the same, right? But the end of the way the way to fackard, because it's not,

it's not, you're not simple. If you're not, you know, want coffee, want to tea. Just every day, you know, do, do you, take. I don't know. I'm not. I'm going to come on,

teh, vote, just. I'm probably, yes, I'm going to come down to, I'm going to, where that? Oh, Janna. Trey, the time, with coffee, and with the juice,

you know. That's a great way to close our discussion, man. The moral of the story, you have to jabanin'a just it's just to be it. Enact, yes. It's, yes.

I'ma. I'ma. Tumafi. Yeah. Eap. E. Ena. So, in life,

he said that'd at the end, don't see the other Yeah. Yes. And that is And that is actually

the founding fathers of us. With Pachasila and Baja-Indoosa, Chief. Why is the English? Because of the minority, I think, let's go back to basic. Minkirin our founding fighters.

What they're already out, Chief. So, so much more than we should have been made to be able to be. If you're going to vote, just. If you're going to voting, there. Bro, there's a person to hear? No, I just want to say, what I'm going to say,

sorry, we're going to be sad democracy. Sorry, I keep going back there. because I'm worried about this country. Because chalelah the mainpinesian for Indonesia with tantalangangangangang that's the record their.

It's important. That's all I can say. I just want to say, let's make Indonesia great. Yeah, right. If I'm going to, maybe Indonesia more.

Amen. Thank you, bro. Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate being invited here. So, that'shatt Rashid, Pimpinan Khadin

that's been around Hadith. Yeah, that's important, Chief. Thank you. This is.