Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Bagus Muljadi: Kuliah yang Jauh Haruskah Pulang?

Episode Date: February 7, 2023

Asisten Profesor termuda di Fakultas Teknik, University of Nottingham—Dr. Bagus P. Muljadi—bicara mengenai esensi pendidikan dan refleksinya pada kondisi kita hari ini, mengapa buah manis beasiswa ke luar negeri belum banyak terasa, dan bagaimana belenggu administrasi, pemeringkatan semu, dan feodalisme masih menjerat perguruan tinggi, pengajar, serta mahasiswa Indonesia. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #BagusMuljadi ------------------------ Magister Kebijakan Publik SGPP Indonesia Pendaftaran Maret 2023 admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: https://endgame.id/season2 https://endgame.id/season1 https://endgame.id/thetake Dengarkan juga di Spotify: https://endgame.id/spotify Kunjungi dan subscribe: https://youtube.com/c/SGPPIndonesia https://www.youtube.com/@VisinemaPictures

If there's not a narration that's good from the scientists to informasically to informasically to make informations that people are that's a lot of

and Indonesia has been used to be it. There's no, there's incentives for academics, or other people people who are

making allocations concentration research to Arrash that. Right. This is NG. Hello, I'm,

Today, today we're good, Muliadi, assistant professor at the University of Nottingham. Thank you, thank you, so, can't come. Pleasure. You're, very,

the later back on the and the perjalan of the life. Tellin, day, late three, right, and then,

and schoolan also not what, you, predication that you will end up in the place that's now, can. Silakan, the story.

I'll live in Jakarta, big, in Jakarta. Not be specific, it's not just to make, because I'm going to track to run, pina, and then every time. So,

the backer, the middle, or what? Rata, Rata, part, the part, the north.

Okay. The other, people are still from the small entrepreneur. Yep. not be more

and there's many problems in school, in school, the school from the SDS,

PSMP, SMA, that? What? What? Because malice, nakal or

or this? It's just focus? Mokin' that's that's putto. So,

yeah, so there tendancey to keep in the rules, so, so many

matter, many, many, the, the way, the people, people,

my way, I'm my heart, that, so, so, so, so,

so, so, I think of the day, I'm noteworthed. And it was, it was going to school school of the Institute of

Bandung at that program Technic Musil. Yeah, at the time, but in it's not

out-biasa, because I lulusen 5 time, with IPK that in the back at that two-6-9,

maybe, now, because there's But at the time, but at the time, but in the time, but it's been it's been, you know,

and I'm able what, in ITB? Technic machine. Yeah. Tanymission. Why? Technic machine? I mean,

to be to be able to be a or a band or or Mani. Mani.

I'm not. I, I'm from band, I'm Bamban bach Putsi and and other, so again,

Nying. Oh, do you. I mean, I used to be. Okay. Yeah. I'm not. But, but, but it's not baddha.

Nying a leg dewa. And then. And then, I'm, I mean, to go ahead. So, I'm going to start at a university Swastah, University Parahyangan

at that time. And technique machine ITB, because technique machine, there's a game technique, there's,

I'm sure. I'm going to make what, and I'm going to learn to learn technique machine, but,

but, but at the So, the termination I at the ITB, that's up on the part of the private university. The people are my own to-day-lawful-you-ta. So, that's right, with $7,000. So, I'm going to get a program technique, and, until now,

be cutat in there, while a little detour. So, so I'm going to lose ITB in 2006, five-town-cullied at there. And when, to come up to work, Yeah, they'd be pangling interview, but 2.75,

even international companies require 3.0. So, in... Stress, too, that? Very, very stress. I'm sorry. I'm thinking to continue to C-3, to add-boggling power. Yeah, I'm too-tut,

I can't tuitousy, the other and the Americas, or Europe, because... Mahal, yeah, and... Yeah, out of the people. So, we're at the time, to be

think to go to China, maybe Korea or Taiwan. There's a so.

So, debalas in Taiwan lewate a email that's by professor in there.

I said, that I'm saying, that research my research my world-changing. He's got know the

better than. At the time, he was, he was he kind of by email that I

took up to be making me of my class, Master. There's no business. So, I'm going to bea-sysuasins

one-sat-sat-sat-sat-fisks, Department of Light-Mechanics, flight physics, in National Taiwan University. He gave them to give you a time. You know, not to comeary, but must be a part-time, and all the time. Okay, I'm sorry, there's a casepettance.

That's, okay, and I've been able to bea-timore-upus-mastar while, I'm trying to do you want to bea-pneumatic. So, I'm a firearm. for charing that's kental, viscosity so for cat kapal. I said,

I said, sounds totally familiar. Yes, yes. So, so. So, so I said, there, this, yeah, there,

this is there, I've got a commis. Actually, I'm back back. To Surabaya, you're doing, that, that's,

that, can be able to buyer uangue money, cool, gos, Gopo, finally lullus also

and actually the professor in the teacher to give access to get a PhD.

I was four-tawan have used to belajured for PhD menickah with the world

Europe, so that's metuion in Taiwan. Manarik. He's also also in school.

He's from German from massisua pertukaran plazer. There's there,

there, there, there, there, This if I brought to Indonesia, maybe not-coct. So, I must try to work in Europe, so.

Now, actually, through some fortuitous series of events, I was lullus there, there's a casepment to make a program post-doctoral, that's a preset

not-tet-tet-tet. At Toulouse, in France. So, in the department mathematics, so I'm going to apply to mathematics.

Applied Mathematics. By the way, S-3-Ns, in the field of what? Applied physics. Applied physics. Wow. That's really very momok, yes, from I S-1. It's not

why, that's it's, but, a series of very difficult moments that's left, too, that, right. Lulus, and PDsia, I, terbentuck because of the

disusasance that in Taiwan. I, I'm school as-sing one-sat-one, and there's not many who's fascic, learning

language English, as maybe we're going to talk to the time. And it's made it's

to be able to bring to the French without berbassaken French, because maybe I'm in even if

the word of not know how the way can't be back the I'm going to go to French,

while upon to the department that there, career academic will be naic, and imperial

college in London, it's to be partaking for work I'm three-torn in Department of Illmubu Me.

Narc. As a postdoc. That's just the first time I'm know that's the same time in the area, there's a lot of because minimal, but it's English, can, in London, that's,

maybe because staturedness as a university that's that's a world-class, and, actually, it's, made career academic my, more be bebeang, can get a tenor position

at the University of Nottingham, in the Department of Technic, Kimia. And and lingquemann. This is this one is the first

got a tenure in there? No, I think there was an I think there was an... I think there was an... I guess there was a lot of people. There was a tenor in the department

mathematics. Okay. But, then. Okay. But in Faculty of Engineering, I'm the first from Indonesia in the faculties. Because not many people

people in the U.K. The U.K. is the position of permanent and more senior than I, it's 35 to 40, it's going to be a lot. It's a little. Very much.

So, very. So, at University of Nottingham is a little. In some of the universities, there's just one. Two. That total, what, is the students? In English? From Indonesia. In University of Nottingham, it's about 100.

Okay. From S.A. S.A.S. 2. S3, it's kind of, keros. And that it's... ...slero, English. 10,000,000, there? 10,000, maybe, 8,000 to 10,000.

In English, it was about 100-1 universities, Nottingham, termed up in the big, there's 100,000, yeah, 8,000, kirae,

so much, back. Back, d'et tenure in 2017. Yeah, was that. 33,

23, time. Well done. 33, time. Yeah, at that, yeah,

so, much, much, for Russell Group, university, like Nottingham, it's, it's, it's about post-doctoral experience, like five-tawn, six-towers.

Because in English, not there's tenor. Yeah. So, university has been investation, so much of the students professor. And the

university's not in the English, it's close market. Yeah. Maybe not like in Indonesia or maybe in US. Yeah. So,

then what's the last? Reset, Reset I'm being back back there. So,

I'm applicatisical what is called numerical modeling to the premecahan

problem of the focus, I'm going reset in the bi-anergy and energy, focus reset

in the biotechnology also, in bidang carbon capture and storage. In-Bidgapur, gambut.

Yeah. Nouric. Yeah. So, yeah. So, the same thing is the numberical

modeling. numerical modeling to make sure uncahan massal and problem transport. And porous media.

That's really can't where it's where, that's not the timeangana. So, so,

so, it is carbon sink natural the best. So, so, Indonesia has

many There's a lot of gambot, tropical itland, like in Scotland also even though jamesh, though gambut is the same that's the most effective if retain its

integrity. If it's collapse, he can make out-courtan, but methamat, a lot more harsh greenhouse gas. Now, the problem's now, so,

how it'servassarvassi gamut. Now, some people who are doing in upay the way that's the way that's having to make uptimbang can factor ecology and factor hydrology.

Ecology is, the parahologous, how many the humbushed and bebeamble. Factor hydrology is a air tamah, curah, but there's

trying to make make make factor mechanical. Because if in airy, the land gabbot will be much the top of the

upon the mechanism to beban and it's integrity. Now, because mengamalgamations three factors this is very difficult in

the resamating. So, the parahogis still too used to resett in the bedang solid state

physics, yeah. Now, this is a cellh, and I'm maybe want segueue to that resets, resets,

the set, the set that's different disciplinar like this, you, the first, it's not

that's done in Indonesia, because of the buddialiniarity in the purguron tingy, but it's very much manfaiting, and because it will

give landassan for the people to make the strategy reservations gambut. And, that's

evidence-based policy. We're not we're cached from some many expertise in English that maybe can be

applications in the system in Indonesia, land gambut, problem, problem, like tsunami, problems like

gas extraction, the gas extraction, and the same of all right. So, so, I'm going to, so... There are some PERSPANASB, and um, but it's been

the best of what we're not being in the bidangue and work together with the part of matemate, the environment,

the environment, and we're and we're trying, in-out- purely academic collaboration, make a framework how much

there's, so there's for funding research-res- like that, so, now, that I'm

that I'm, that's like, in the the last year it, make up a different with diaspora

academic in UK so that we can make sure we can make sure people from two belap to give funding in

the bidang in the business for Indonesia. Now, this is that I'm doing in Indonesia

at this day, with director of Nottingham hadir, rector of some people of

some people who people who bring back this because policy making. This is

like that. So, maybe that's part of the endgame. Yeah. So what? Colaboratorian, from Indonesia. From level of university, Pat, Gita. Yeah.

Nottingham University, there Coventry University, there, Warwick University. That we're working with first, ITB, ITB, NACUGM, it's my alma mater.

ITB, UI, UGM, IPB. We've made to make a consortium. The U. U.K. Indonesia Consortium for Interdisciplinary Sciences.

We can make it so that in network that can make sure there are free movement for thoughts. So, maasiswasis and docent, staff pangiar, can make sense

in the UK and vice versa without there as a can't-is geographies. Because consortium this is there is the consortium this

so there is the government from each each to make each of the country to to turn, and the and we're doing with

with the Rekan Rican in partnership roadmap. So it's bilateral documents between U.K. and Indonesia who will give

panduble can how it that's together two in the different in innovation,

we're making making RONDeguble relationship to interdisciplinary-disciplinary scientific collaborations. And I'm going to look at

there's a cellar to make sure to make sure men make sure menolice publication but it's both countries to make an errat

and it's very timely because the problem climate change and the matter we're from we're from people who are

people who are this thing this is scientific and this has been the issue and it's the same

the potential the level the scientific collaborations so. So, we're more like that, Fagita. Producting what,

from this from the collaboration in? Naturally, journal papers. Naturally. Because it's made metric for universities in

Indonesia to make making bonavidea in the whole ranking universities and other and and sogain. Project two is to

initiate funding new in the bidang in strategic for Indonesia. Now, it has been so we're

making can people In other than the government of Indonesia to make funding scheme in the bidangue in the other than I said that I said

strategist. And that's as well as reset focus from President Joko Widodo. Green economy, blue economy, digital technology, health, sustainable tourism. And universities in the UK

also. So, we're making a new funding mechanism to make sure. And the other thing is, And, the third, is education public. We're going to make up with media like The Conversation to start making make make make sure to public

relevancy from reset that's related to climate change, to all the way, to make them, to be sure they peduli. Because it's already this because we have been able to be able to do not, for the problem that the U.K. is very concerned. Not to mention other countries. You know, as well,

you know, as a person academici, it's, it's, not, is, that, that's many people,

people think, people think, people, that's, not too nambu. It's not too all over,

I'm, kind of, the domain academic, yeah? Yes. I'm not, that, that's the

friend I'm brilliant to make resets, making everything, and in

publication that's very much, but the, that's bigot, yeah,

right? And, if it is, by the people, people, people,

that is, it, penjembatan with pen-grapan and, kind of,

it's, there, That's also, aggagre-agued gap. And this, sorry, this is a got

agate to issue that's a bit, but I'm seeing, this is very very much. Yeah,

right. And what you're doing is an world-diam- to be able to be a community-

academy-sie and people, this, sorry, yeah, not much did do-luck-

about many of people. The, the, bubble just, Academiss, in the institution academic,

then they're thinking, know, and they're doing that's about the publicas, who's been

being, it's been by peer review and and like, but this not nambung to the people,

the importance, whether it is about public health, global finance or climate change or or whatever

this, this is that maybe can be the problem can the same what we

in the world in the day day, right because they're not trained to do that. True. Academics.

Yeah, I said so much. But what you're doing is what you're doing is what what I'm in what I think

has been doing by academic Limey. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, the issue is the issue that scientific, yeah, so we're about

about the permasalal Dunya. Take Indonesia. He wants to be the country G-4. Janjinnia,

in the year. J-4-G-4, it is dukourn't from GDP, you have, must have been much capital. And,

to make a percepatement in the bidang economy, we have to give uslussar for the problem

because of the problem economy, had been in the problem of the problem, the world in

what's the big, the time, the same, the problem, there's We've got a little of social, human trafficking, and the other

and the other than, we can't, we can't see. There are some of the problem for providing solutions for. Indonesia has more than 50% of the cadangans of the world. Indonesia has been braggam bahasa that mubhawak can basis for us to make sure the world how much can't getass the resolution antar supurras, agamate. Indonesia biodiversity, the second, if not the highest in the world.

Food. Medicine has from there. But, but it's all the matter of scientific, and not only scientific, interdisciplinary scientific.

If you're not there's narracy that's good from the scientists to informassica to make informasically to make sure people who,

that this is a lot of and Indonesia has been key. There's no incentive for both par academics

or upon the people who make allocations consensuration research caras that. Partly because they're not trying to do that and partly because metric that

for the academic for the academici to make up it's very, yeah, it's very, maybe there's probably, but before, yes,

it's not been a bit of with a metric that kind of kind of not even having sometimes have been it, so. Bucaner I'm thinking

that sita the jumla publication that there's not there, but but, but, but,

But it's really there's a good to be there's a bit more than in LACI, and there's who've got to becha. In the negara and U.S. and U.K. There are some perjaniard with Dora agreement

to start making the outcome from the research that to impact. The impact here we we've made case study how the researches can't be able to

make up against of the kind of from the level to the number to the

end up we're doing impact case that we're and university has made reward

in the amount and it's a bit bit about impact it now in Indonesia

I see I look still still need there because if

if you natural academic didn't have incentive for the

people make people to beauching to be made so that they don't have been the way to make a

point of the reason why it's not much in Indonesia so that public that didn't appeal to that matter of

that matter that matter that in the UK, there Brian Cox, there Richard Dawkins although they don't

even they're whether they're certain about expertise it, but minimal he's about communicate

what what relevance this is what relevance In Indonesia, I'd ask to the student of where, I don't know,

I don't know. Who's the law? Hi, Bhabi, did be known. Good, is, man. But, I was asked at the time when I'ma even when I'm B, that's actually

you said, B, that's, so, yeah, so, there's aoucheon about a figure that's new that's brought Indonesia to

to start to be not only the tauterian and tempe and it's everything I'm going to

but it's that's not there's there's there's we're using we're using we're gonna

in the UK there's Dr. Karina Joe Dr. Karina Joe. In Japan there's there's a scientist

that's that's about in the problem crucial the world. He's also

vaccine and they're also and they're being paten here for production mass

vaccine is big feet even for the UK government, the public has to know. The public has to know that we have the answer. Now, this is a perubhance that, not only can't live from the bigibacker,

but it's not a lot of the public and it's why endgame, in-gain, in-ruth I have puttonsie to be significant as a member-in-baw-per-prubohan. So, you know, you know,

you, if I think I'm making inspiration that's and down to the community

and large. Because you're who's been per per to menjembatan domain science

with domain public in domain public. So, but the end-ugugugion it's a

game of scale. Yeah. Yeah, right, we had we spent on top of this before this. If I, if I'm not in, yeah, this I'm going to acu to one of the other than America,

a number of, sis-wasis who are from Indonesia in America, the U.S. When I was I was school in the 80s, that's $16,000. Now, it's just $8,500. Yeah, can?

And, And when that in the 80s, that came from Korea, Turkey, India, that's almost same with us. But, now, Turkey, Korea, is over 100,000.

India, 150,000 to 200,000. Tijuana, 250,000. Taddy, you know, how we can be one of

one of the G-4, in 2004, now, this we've got extrapolation, if you're who's

social science, in the place manapun, like in the U.K., like Europe Barat, in Russia, Japan,

Korea, Taiwan, America, Australia, Singapore. If it's, the scale it's far as the scale

that's done by the number 1, number 2, number 3, in the year, in 2045,

yeah, it's, it's, raba, where, uh, not from the case

the kind of the world we're as a per-economian that's the data-sighing how we can

be able to be able to how we're going to yeah, right? Yeah, that's... Yeah, if you know, if you're not,

umur-a-nobor-nobuspulled, 20, 30, you're, eh, idola who's as if, as a scientist? Yeah, if they can't

be able to be... Cuck-sucur, back, one of the other one of the other than. I'm just saying, but, but,

but, So, if, I think I have this is, yeah, this is a need to be a lot of

my way, I'm not not even you're in not even because if you know, because if you're

what are what you do you, making this making this. There, there's people,

people, people who people who people who people who people who people who are working

in the country as a academy, and then when they're being media

who's who's who's when they're there's always he's when they're

when what's what's what's what I'm for this and this

and it's from people from from 305, 40 that that's

very that we yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

academic that academia and academia that yeah almost I can

know because I can't know yeah that's That's not recipient Biasiscival of the government Indonesia.

Right. That's right. Because Biasisyshire muster them to go to get back. If I got a business people,

I can be a success in the other but that I'm not going to be academic in the UK. That, maybe I can't even

be unicorn, can just, so, but to be academic, it's need to investasas even

even to get doctor even, don't know can't get tender position. You have to make a postdoc position to make bributical

that you're independent in fact that you're going to on the group resett that long. And what's actually is that when I'maacusua medaputorial status in the UK and he has to beulang

if he's a descend, he can last belemug with administrative burden in Indonesia. He can beulngue with the currown facelitas reset

that had been vignmati in the other country. What is the person Collider. Yeah. Ketka

he has put on and didn't get access to that's like that. Maybe he can't be Singapore.

Okay. But, but if you're without any facility of resett, yeah, if I'm

doing it's so much, so much. Butuukes the climate yeah and all that much. He's got

the community that's not. And I'm see, China can't be the problem that's

several time years. They're putate with brain drain. Yeah. So, he's

he's been think from investations people that's people only from people who

can't but but now China now China can't make government

after North America and Europe from from productivity productivity

productivit productivation patent and stuff of Qinghua from 2006

I'm from 2006 I must be in back Taiwan now top 10

so so that that who's going to be the same. I think there's

not there is a bad for people who people who investasically the money to make

people who people who back to America. But I'm like the people, but we're

saying, the scale, let them be back too, and so they can make sure

about money from investasas that they're getting there. I'm still not such

about morality because more people that's a person is only the

who are not even though. Nationalism that's there's not a nationalism to be able to judge.

We're talking about the utility, that they can be able to purely as people who have been

who have even more. Even though they don't have actually, they can't make sure in person

to make sure to allowation data reset from English, Europe, anywhere, not to Chile,

not to Mexico, not to China, to Indonesia to. It's Principal investigators, the research that has the next big thing in Indonesia.

So, so, all kinds of like I think that's because there's still there that has been able to be able to from diplomacy Indonesia in the world. I'll give you

example, like, this, I just I just know, there, for FCDO, the menu of English, it's chief scientific officer. Yeah.

scientific for the public, we're not we're not not

it. How are you going to talk about climate change? How are you going to talk about diplomacy?

IP, everything. HALs like that. Metaverse. There permasalahan property

in there. Yeah, can, the can be scientific issues in

the It's made bargaining power and then, soft power we're not as the thing we're like we're in front. But,

but the parap this is in the world, the world, that's from the people who are in there. Indonesia is the biggest invisible country

in the world. I'm going to class I, there's about 32 nationalities. It's back of the envelope calculations from 200 people.

I said, I'm going to say, I'm the bigger in Asia Tengara. Sampi to they're

lewatin Cambodia during Kambogia during all the time, Thailand, it's up

not, not, that's about to be over Russia, yeah, but it's peculiar.

But the scientific communities there can help. So, that we need said, we've said,

if there's a bit more, the idea to be scientific superpowers, knowledge-based economy.

Mm. Knowledge-based economy is put up penicatan institutions as the result knowledge,

sumber daya as career knowledge and knowledge exchange. Who who will do that?

Yeah. Who's again? It doesn't just happen. You need the students in MIT. You need academic stuff

at Harvard. Yeah. So, that's pretty. It's is also, it's also

that's in the clang of people people my people not people from Singapore, Malaysia, India,

Tionk, Japan, Korea, even the people, even people Europe, that's,

that if they , if they're going to go to go to come, yeah, yeah,

who's, yeah, yeah, who's, after being back to people, people,

people, people, the things, the other, because of the other, but it's already to be the

rations of the first that I'm going to beckxed this is the case this is the way about the people that's not going to come up to-pulang. The other

is, yeah, if there's there, if there's a misallocation of resource. Yeah, right? And I, too, I'm going to

go back and film that I've done to-torn-tenth-old about the dreams. That there's a pepata that's that it's really that's going to be making

a lot of baseball that's great in the kind of in the kind of and he's making how he can make make make make people people

people who there someone who who will if you build it they shall come Ibarat kata if

if it'saranan there is this anyone If anyone who wants at University of Nottingham like in the places, in the world, it's going to backal back. So, there alignment of interest, alignment of requirements, and qualifications.

And I, too, if I'm going to be brain drain, I'm not percaya. Hands down, I don't think about brain drain. Because, uh, , every minute that you allocasiccation at the University of Nottingham, it will be accumulation For the key of the importance of that you're

going to be back to Indonesia. Apakal five-town, 10-town or 20-town-lago. From, rather you're back back again. And, back to scale.

I'm back to scale. I, too, I've seen, yeah, I've seen imping. Beyang, that it's about talking about you about soft power.

If there's 100, people of Indonesia can't go on English. If there 100, If there 100,000 people can't be a million people can't even about international

other than other than trust me, narration Indonesia that will be great. And,

we're that we're to be people from India who yeah, yeah,

because they can't because they're English and jague and aggues and America that's the world,

it's more than anything else. It's more, I don't know how how it's with the omongan people from people from the other than umongan of our power,

where we're, where we can, we can't make upbucked in a global, geostratagist, like,

geopolitic, geopolitic, like, geo-economy, like, if if, if if, if, can't even

about what's that's in the community international I'm I'm sure it will be better perception

of all the world in Indonesia yeah, not as so-sulte maybe to

socialization to to socialization the to to increase relevancy but this also

and in the of art there 200,000 people in America. Why not there 200,000 people in Indonesia in English? Why not there 200,000

people in the Hong Kong? Why not there 200,000 people in German? To learn whatever is it. Yeah. I mean, it's a skewed

idea of brain-drain. From the idea, the concept of scale, time frame. I'm looking from the same capacity of people, because

the galur of career in the academy in the academic, it's not even for academia in the UK. Rata from them, Harvard Cambridge graduate. Rata-rata-cumlaught from S-1, S2, S-3. And I've never seen

seen, there's almost drop out, so it's been to be, everywhere I look in my alley, there are Harvard Cambridge graduates. So, from the capacity intellectual individual, the people, there are people who are

there are people that can't bemenuhy Quota, Pagita, Taddy, 200,000 that's

English, because 100 million? 100, you know, that's. If I'm maybe,

they also also, that's point that. But, the claim that's not doing to do that,

incentive that there, so, Tanya, Tita said, he's about China,

he's started the, they've imposed their presence in the global stage.

So, that, we don't, we're still, we I'm still belgue, can falsafah that quality is out there.

We are simply recipients. We are simply just hoping to be there. We're users. There is no determination in the heart that you can be even better than them. Sorry, I'll just potong, I'll just, is a peradaband

that's great, It's really long long before 5,000 but they're still haus to know anywhere from

anywhere. Oh yeah. Not in Joghja, not in Silicon Valley like, not in Nottingham like,

not in Frankfurt or where, in America, and 450,000 people, people, people, people, in Europe,

in English, gila. Uncountable. Bayanin, this is this peradaband that's great because

five,000 time. Mustidia, they can have had have had to get to

know you who's you're going to you learn to you're being I'm going to get back

because I'm going to be personalizing people who are doing externalization people who they're in their strategy

like that yeah have been yeah from up or from top down and majority and majority

from the most of the people who that's not the way the pay the government

America yeah right right back to point you to point you I cut you off Silala No no no

No no That's Right too Beto's Right Yeah People got People who

People China That's Because They're Partial Intech For several

Two thousand Two thousand Yeah Yeah Yeah And put Some much Kind of kind of

Yeah homogeneity Yeah Yeah And yeah And They're And they're

Because And they're Cautusus And They're Haveousan Yeah What I see dominant

of the different as individual China and Indonesia is, khausan their to look in particular individual,

ambi-individu is not the penalty by system social. Makin ambisious a person Chinese,

making society to give them reward to it. This is the example of people who hebat, the ambitious.

In Indonesia, it's not So, so-interest is depanalize. That's good. What's good is the

important commoner. Barucused little, when be bacti for the government.

Okay. It's, but, China, not, Serta, and Rata, last,

ask them person, people, be the best. Be the best. And it can't

manifest as a collective. And it's unmas occupy the universities the

in Anglo-America. And, now they're mercaicant the world. And they have to be strong,

the culturean said, Pat Bitae said, you know, you've been going to go back to

China, and all the kind of gesture from, maybe, diplomat Indonesia in

Europe or in any even after sometimes I think, encourage the people people

to learn to U.K. It's good to make gait But it's also

to one one of the people who people people are in Indonesia

yeah yeah yeah because if we're not we're doing the

kudotan English don't I'm I'm I'm being in Nottingham

yeah people people people people I'm gonna yeah I'm

kind of yeah because because because because because somehow

subconsciously or unconsciously you're actually Indonesia, with the with the of your

kind of your and the but if I think here, here, here,

yeah, the example of business, perbandinging between Asia Tengara with Tijuana and

Tijuana if Tijuana. If we look in 30 years, GDP per capital, Asia Tengara

that's upinging only three different lipat. In Tionk, in period

the same, the different differentiator it, That there are a few. The first, the infrastructure

that's a more massive in the Hongk. The second is, the two, the two, people who are proficionsy the kids

young, and the first of the Singapore is number two, Indonesia number 21, from from 78 of the

of the eight from there, we can't that we can't that'sa-tengara and Indonesia, that's underinvested in the penidivation.

in 30 years in the last. But, the last here, attribute it, which I think is very interesting,

is the un-ininion bersaing. So, if I see, license business that's issued in Tijuana,

that per-1-1-0. It's 9. Sedanan, in Indonesia, 0.3. From, from what you from what you

are there to be a problem? Because, because, and it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Birocrace.

Or, maybe, risk-taking. Okay. Capacity. So, so the people people

don't want to make risk like people who people who people who are more than to get more than

to be able risk. To get restaurant or to learn, to what do that. Maybe

people are not like that's like that. Risk-taking capacity yeah. I'm

not going about about bureaucracy, yeah. It's, from bureaucracy. If I'm think I'm

think I'm in the way, or structural, we can be escalation capacity to take the risk. I'm agate

detour, you know, because I have very strong opinion on this. Cuncini is education. One of the

one. Educacy, it, while I don't say, etymology, is arty but there,

but there two root from the catacare and educer and educator. Educare is to make an

imprint of the knowledge of the father to the son. So, so it's perpetuating knowledge. So, so much, people who are going to be different workers,

passing down orders. So, he's, to lead out. To lead out from chaos and into the light. So, men cetacac people who can be able to look risk as a opportunity.

Orang people who know how it's capitalization chaos. that the flip side of education but that but people who

can be like that's like that's people that are that are people who are who are who who can't be able to

domain evaluacy system education that is a certain conformism and that's people

now people people this not much not much not come to the domain because he he's

the buchum in the in the bidang academic. He is a person making a problem things, things that

are there not there's other things. Now, people are there people who are being as a manusia

gagal. So, so the system education is there's a different meredka belajat

that's derivation from Kihajah DeWantara. That's student centric learning, and all much. That's,

now, point is not guru as the who hasisua that's the Rasso Suntlodo

Im Madio Mangan Karso who in the back Tutuuri Handayani to draw to the point to them. Supuanyi is them manifestasikin

while upon creativitas potential for ambiriscco to system of the system of

should be that. Now, this is not. This is not. In the

non-unctus all- university too, the massis-s- -s-o- -s-sper-

-us-o-o-i-o- What's What I think I think Yeah, the difference with China is Indonesia

post-colonial country. So, there some kind of structure hierarchy that's been even before colonial

even before colonial even a carajan. But, since from colonial that there's a kind of people who

people who have been think that there jenjang strata that only people can can't,

tingat can be taken. Now, then, own okay. Now, this we

look at the structure apopun in the world of so you so that there's a

jenjang professorial that same by name with the America, but only underdaser

name. Because in America, associate assistant full professors this is egaliter. Even I

even my people, I'maliteer. In Indonesia not be that in Indonesia, there Jenjang,

jenjang, that's that's to be able to be able to be able to. Yes. Has it.

Yes. Has it. Professor. How's called the title academy. Yeah. In America,

too, luguah another. Yeah, bro, sometimes. Bro, back. Karatea.

Yeah, my crativeness. I'm a murat I, I'm gonna say, bro. Or first name my name my

my name. Yeah. I'm called my name asisua I'm gonged my name I'm gonna it's,

not. It's, pa, yeah. Not bad. This, this is all, it is made.

Yeah. Paham. Yeah. To getterbatassan. To make up risk. There. There's pergarten. Memang,

now, because... But this, this, this is, to be the people. Yeah. Yeah,

right? Yeah. If we're, we're just, men, or the system colonial, or the

the story of colonial, we, we can't be out of bubble this. Yeah, yeah?

And, this, Tentunctuptuptu, or even constructive. Capemimpinan. Yeah. And, and the penimpinpinioning

to can be manifestation in the room, tanga, in school, in the ecosystem, NPRW, cabbapaten, Kota, and

other, and I'm not, I'm sorry peduling about curiculum, I'm going to be pedulum, I'm going to be good.

Yes. Yeah, right? That's the more about the quality of meditism. Guru, Indonesia,

docent. Yeah. Only 15% who's been the glared doctor. I don't say that qualification

that's automatically with the problem with but minimal someone who ever made doing that's doing

what's been experiment or reset. Now, the problem in the problem in the

people who people who's people who are the same fast-moving change. So, the person should be used

to make resett in the time when the if the person's not been

doing to do not have been made a resett. What are the relevancy curriculum that's done with the problem in the world. There's not a matarantah that's hushabung

between education, reset, innovation. Guru's not been making a result. You know, and the other than me doing the RISTA, they're going to

come back to and it's been under the administration. I'm, this not a person special, especially as well

as special as intellectual. I'm a benefactor ecosystem that matang. If Rekkan I'm given

a case that's important they're going to make a big big. So, so the kuntinses not competency

as far individual, the competencies are the ecosystem that's been built. Mackan dosin in Indonesia

that's there's 7,000 universities in Indonesia. Well, that's not that

menack, too. China with population five more than

we've been English 100, kind of like. Masal of it is not a good quality.

Quality-quality and and casenjanka. I'm several times when I'm if you know,

it's coming from the 20th, top percentile. Yeah, it's a multiple choice, question. Yeah, we're going to tell us a top 20 just percent.

Don't pick from bottom 20 percent. And, and from there's it just. Curiculum not means not per die-upac. But if you're not

do-bha, it's justa, quality of our quality of our people to be better than what we have done what we have done.

And, and it's bongus again in context monongongue to beerad of our own 2045. Relevancy

our really, really can be real, we're really just the world, but all the

world too. Yeah, right. I'm see, for the important, the pentingan

in- that's it's a perlu get-bukkaan, yeah, right, to-adap-

idea. To-ad-a-p whatever for the the betterment of ourselves. Yeah, and this

This is the I'm coming with what I've seen-aumptioned with what I'm saying, it's a paradox and democratization information, information is very dissemination in massive, but idea, it's not recreaty as a certain-predocical, and this, is a lot of that's not eveningue can't under the idea of yeah, right. University agree. University,

it would have been microkosma, democracy, yeah. Yeah. Idee that that's not to be used in

the information that controversial or have to have to make people people. I always ask for this segueue a little.

So, the word is what is what? Why, the university is called professor. Professor is from profiteri, profess to profess, to speak publicly about something.

So, maybe because of the culture of the year year, you know, a year old, a person who can't talk to things that's

things, the end up human beings, the world, so, so, the idea it is,

before he's to be used to the society. So, the structure university is like The country's

own, there's a senate, there's a executive, there's a point. So, if you're going to,

if there's a idea, it's a culture of university, can't, university is there can't be incubator? Or, they're belgue

with metrics metric, that's made, it's not, the reason up as professor. So,

like that. Now, professor for neck, he's he has must have been

himmuchy some kind of cum like that's not it not be able to not even the credit

but credit this is burden administration that's very much that make that make impact

not to impact, not to the case and other and other than there's there

has been structural that's that's that's need leadership that means to give us

university to come back to come back to the function mulling

mulled. All of our people in the room in the world about the same

in the world. So, anything is the new person will be the

trend in the time next if if you know, if you

can't be used as instrument to make good workers, it's

only educare but educera, you know, universities it's not only

certain to work on, if you're doing the producer, the work it's, so I'm

the way, the education vocation, vocare, like, but it's university is that

people, people, the point. So, so we're, so, so, so,

we can, we can, we're, we're, there's, status of PNS, can,

status of, PNS, there, there mechanism crowdfunding reset so that they're not going to put on one of the land funding reset

so that the people can have been consinambungan for the academics and think idea what are relevant for

people. Industry has to beckar the the business. Now, there's there's not

there's different, university is the government has come up there. So,

so it can give cost and risk there's resets between three structure this. There are

there, but I'm sure to be able to get up again there, the way, this is the good.

For the system for the system pediggan in Indonesia and the and the

child and our children to the right. So, so it's how, how,

and you can't be if, if, if, the school manap in

Indonesia, that's in talenta that's the best from the world not perlie from Indonesia just if we're

can't show keturbuckan to make to teach almo biology we don't there, we're who

kind of from our cabupaten we can't not try from the other

can't if we're not we can not we can't we can't we can't we can't we

can't we can't we can't be the more than the other than our and cuchu, that's, that's if I'm

repugn product that will be great for the for the and I'm and I'm still,

that we're to be in to be in to be in trying talenta to the to be

to gosonging to kosongan. Gini, P. P. P. P. P.

Yeah. Like, Maslow. Maslow. People have incentive to be better at the gengang pyramid

to be that. I'm a father of my wife, for their for the money to be back.

In the the bottom. Security, maybe atas. Climate change, things, the,

things, the, of the, the fact of the fact is the fact is the fact that, even,

I can say privilege of the people who can be I just be back to think

to be there. Padal this is it would be people who in the time that's very because

the world because it's very much time 20s where Nokia and Coca-Cola and Coca-Cola and then

now, if anyone even more more than Mark Zuckerberg in a week maybe can top-link

Facebook that. Okay. So, so so, so, impact it is in the people,

the most, For the people who's the bottom. So, what's the important is. The people are. The people who can't make sure what relevance of the butusiness. There's expertise in the biotechnology, and all the same. Forggy, for the constituency,

has an urgency, to make this as a issue up. If we look at the politics in Indonesia, who's who makes up-asukee technology as a science-technology as as an issue urgent. I think, because I've been

said, I don't like about moral, I'm not sure. I'm looking about the line incentive. Not there.

No, there. Reward system still. Not there. Reward system from where issue that can't come

to the permook. Pallague climate change. Padalalach. If, if we're if we're just put to call,

Bat So, so it's like that. Narration that can be by the people who are that's in the low parameter of needs. So they're making that in a lot of the next there's a banjure that will

and then, and this point I, if I'm going to want to climate change, that's what we're going to that's not, it's not, it's not, so-sum-sum game.

Yeah, can transitional. Yeah. Everybody wins. And this is socialization and education to all the people of the people

And I was, you know, even upyberbussar, I'm going to be, it's going tounking pre-existing paradigm too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right.

Yeah, but, but, but I'm, yeah, if, if I'm going to about things on the part of the pyramid,

this, it's a long game. Yeah, right, while, even immediacy from the dampact that

it, can be by many people, but yeah, as we're sadder that this game long, we have to be I'm sure

I still think with incrementalism. We can't be in the of the end but but, okay,

we've got about about the end of the thing, I'm going to say, critical thinking. This is a little

kind of How we can make buddicate to agar critical thinking that robust. And

budaia buddaya that exists in the world, it's kental with capacity people to

agree to disagree. Yeah, not semestin' not asmestin' mustin' agree to agree.

There some kind of the concept about Sopan-Sampo. Yeah. that's what we're that's

that's not be able to be a better pedantap but that art of supans santun

in the staten't the same we're in we're gonna be able to beaugh but if

I'm sorry after we're from where position I in stata strata perguron so.

So, so, so, critical thinking it's very gantung to people

who want people who want to repackacking hierarchy That's about, the issue isu that's from he is there

where. The people who can't power balance. Yeah, like that system in Indonesia to give reward to

not everyone creative. Yeah. So, oh, well, well, who,

the people are the population. Yeah. There are people who are there are people who

had the idea of the If just creation just it's not creation that's a creation who has been creation who's

people who are and they're and they're usually in people who have been people who are always memertanical authority.

System penediction we have given room to and even bring reward, incentive for them to keep them to

keep them to be able to be good workers and in the state of there should be there should be there.

Now, we're look from the bureaucracy and it's from hambat people,

from the side of the same under conformity. If I'm people are people who are

people who not be doing not being not to not be not I'm going I'm going

but I'm but the government but the word that's being ablengue what the

S1, S2, S3 has been same because yeah has to assess quality

by central government, to make the rank on the pedic to be therece. If the bidang resettinia,

who can't be capacity to access quality their. Maca they have linear. Maka hierarchy is part and parcel

with the system education in Indonesia. Maybe because because of the data resources, okay, I'm not me un-uble data Indonesia

resetsets key, basically, basically, maybe the amount of percentage, even than RANaka ASEAN. But,

but there are perubhaparer in structure education if if you're even serious, want to make people with critical thinking.

Because this is outliers. This is not someone people creative. Outliers. It is your job to make the best

system possible so that these people can manifest in the greatest way. So, so it's so. So, so what's

now, the people outliers that many in the U.K. that, the way the structure

they're just it's just we're doing people who are people who even can be able to make the role of

people who are them to be people who can't makemating it. We're sure in America in the American Musk

was in G20. Alan Musk was already before he did make Tesla that if they

if they're getting because we don't get done to get the money we're not we're sure

to be able to make sure to be the end-comb-tombak progress in the field scientific or binang engineering now can't

be Indonesia to be able to it, so much, so it's a field of dreams for people. Not everyone who people who are back to Indonesia is because

they want to do facilitation or get a life that can't be able to there. There are people idealists who want to

Indonesia so they can give an impact because the meaning of life there is not because because gajin's

If you're going to be If you're making I think, the world this is people say people are going to people who are

people who are but meaning but Indonesia is about can bring situation for people who are people who may be

prus. If I'm here, I can give an impact that's makeleggar if you know. If in Indonesia there's

theater of dreams or feel of dreams yeah. The Pemeyn't there's the time. Yeah. So,

if I'd ask, if I'm going to if I'm if if impact I'm more from impact I did

that's at because of not. It's not automatic automatically. Yeah, when the problem

it's important impact. If you're yeah, Indonesia, yeah, in Indonesia, too.

Tomorrow I'm in the area money, and the cost, but, I'm not when I'm think,

this, this this is, this is, it's, there's a get over there, and how

more there critical thinking or the culture of critical thinking. But, but, So, is itnercian

this because they're under ignorance and or arrogance at the level to the people I don't know I'm going to

be speculation but this is a no-brainer yeah if we're really been really be thinking about the matter about

the time on two attributes to be subit for we can't We can. There are many that's about. If I'm

whether I'm going to be anything, if it's not really if you're going to be making what, if you're doing a president can make a matter.

If you're going to make a matter, there's argant in there. Because as a can't be policy or the biggakeran it

can be able to and it's, butahals, what's what's actually is actually is actually the other

sub-budair that's the culture, if it's if it's maybe, like, policy

can make but it's not a macro, the culture that memot that's why America come out with system

capitalism freedom of speech, and all the much. Max Weber said that there is

deep roots in Protestantic Calvinism ethics in there. If you if not work, the like it

not not much there. There freedom of speech because logos or

who's up to happen, it's the rata of the most of the the buddhae-christian. System capitalism, all the same, or system that's sifted-necathes of the system that's submissive in continental Europe, it's product of rippoinged of the actually we

know, while I talk about Pancasilla and all the fact, but what can narrasically

from policy of policy to the problem practice that's not much

we're if we're if we're if you in America debate debate that's the debate that

the partisan that's always makeer on what what what what they're about what they're

about about abortion and like that chame. They're always

men are different individual rights. But, the problem now the abuities the boy who

the same the boy who's the point of paramount importance. It's endar douging from the protestant.

In America, in English, communal value of paramount importance. In Japan, service to the emperor, that's the

thing has been what in Indonesia is. Where? Where we have been be kacchan. What are governing equations?

For the individual Indonesia to menelay how practices. How much we do facilitation critical thinkers? What are utility a person of Indonesia?

Apacaan nationalism? Okay, fine. Nationalism is there in Pancashila. Humanity is in Pancashita. The cuthanna the Mahesha also are in Percasana. Persatuan is in

Pancasila. What are realfati? Even we can't, we can't be Indonesia to be pioneer in climate change because

if anyone who can't have been there's people who must be respect about the

human rights and natuah fauna allah allah allah there, there alasan

that's a lot from ideology to do the earth who's who's who's

who's from where we're from from the dosenka or from the pandemic now

the pastel I said, I mean, I'm going to make, this, COVID, ja'ha, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, but he's notherstas. Maybe he's asked to comeunitas agamannes, indeed. Yeah, right. So, point-point-point-in'n, we're, we're going to, we're going to.

We're not. Mar-a-narr. Many PR. Bany. Gini, you know, under-you-old-you-old-you-d-tackan, And, we've got

been over, see, how much idea that's that's that's

that's not know how much not know, not not yet, that'serack, not, that'seracat. Yeah.

That's, it's not, to urgent to make the person to make sure people and this

this is that I'm that's that's polarization politic in various because

on the the right this is making it's more the people

making over intellectualization Okay yeah right soing this is

this thing this is the center in the and what's the right. And the right

this reaction this is the word of god, I'm sorry for you godemned, I'm sorry for you nodding people who'sodering people who are not a bit more than,

this, this is the way over-intellectualization that's done by the people. Now, the community politics.

Yeah. That, if I'm in terms of I, know, I'm going to make upersikin' Pippan. But,

but they've got done research, abis-abis-abis-and- like, book has been a journal has been

but the but you're about 200 which is center or the right not back because

they're not there's up there's to make pipanisasik content here. This,

if I think one of one of one of the because why there's why

there's been polarisashi percikapan now this now this I'm maybe

solution practice in domain academic is is pendampingan. So there are actors actors pendamping,

that's, who can be able ony, communication. Yeah. You know, if I've been, in the channel

YouTube, you know, how you can be doing hajaring concepts concept that's notar,

yeah, right? And then, if it, can be massifed with the way that's

the same done by academici academies, on the other. Or how I don't know how I'm

sure I'm looking to be centralization percapable. Yeah. Not men polarisation

per capita. That's point that's not too. She's not. So, is it. It's been

this. Yeah. Okay. Scientist said, what, what relevance to us

what we're what we're getting alienization that. Okay, I've got know, you know, you're pintar,

you know. Number one, there's translation from the comacademist to the combe non-academis, even people like I'm a bit ofa-bapac-sai,

to understand what the gunnation this is there. What's the money for me? Where I can include serta. Because if I'm

not if I'm what I'm going I'd justicant it as a issue It's the most. Industry pun, the UK.

Small Middle Class has made more than the KUM Academy. I'm granted, so, not in the UK, it's,

not in the UK anywhere. There's a technology readiness level. I have idea about

about about mechahan massacan math, and from that, from the

people, the end up the amount of the landerer the technology readiness level,

that, the technology rediness level, that's From from the phone from there's a

problem on the amount to the amount to the cost

to the lowest it's very much so much if if they're not

being they're they're apatis that that's that's what cares

you cannot solve pandemic can't anti-pati can't apatis so yeah so much

there's there always there What's what's who has, not authority, a kind of like, like,

kind of, to give people from from the public. From where we know, right or wrong, okay,

there's one master, before modernism, that the religion, or religion, or, people,

and, people, and, people, and, modernist, mass, like,

science, comscientific, can, can be able give up joban, can be given

the answer that can be that's not so that's people people people people if we're living in

menaragading we can't be able to answer per practice people are people who are asking what is

anti what are what you that's point yeah so so so this we're

and I think form like this form form form of other than form of the

other we're tuned in and I think has already appetite from the

people now especially pandemic because there's they're not because they're there

they're not right or not that that's that is there is there is a sure and there's

answer with empirical science yeah yeah right yeah right

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that they can be that

he can be there there two two kata that very fundamental per bedan

artiness sometimes we're doing something based on confidence but if I think more than I'm saying more than I'm thinking to make suretick

and and maybe the people that's what that's being that's on someone dukut it's

based on confidence not but based clarity but but science if I'm think that

more kind of clarity. Okay. Yeah, empirical science. Now, how,

it's, so there's a thousand people in the University of Nottingham from Indonesia, and up

from 100. So, they're more better better than to find clarity from than the confidence. Salas.

Confidence is, but if, clarity is more important. That's true, which I

accept from that's part of what I'm about clarity it's

that's from the people and extracts what what's

what what what that what so scientific thinking

that that that has that has that there is

there is inductive reasoning that that ...mebrickal ...jali

... because not from the long as long as there's the same experiment

to make an answer there, there's not know maybe before Francis Bacon. Why,

what do you make what you must be experiment? Gittal. What is that empirical evidence? There's a massa that

people who there's not the time. That's, then, deductive reasoning which is a lot of

because of other than sogain. So, inductive reasoning. People have know that making experiment

that's not to make sure to make sure that's actually that's to make battal the job upon that's wrong.

It's been abiskscan quota of the same. Reset it has risk. There's

there 100% the answer with the level accuration 100% that. That's

only is probability scientific, not because that's a 100% not about it. People can

be able to think about it, more than you, have clarity of mind. If there, if there,

if there opat pill that new, the possibility is 98% not 20% but there's rational

argument to make it because they're more plausible to be true to be true. Dukun

it's that makes 100% if you if you passang this, 100% joddhion you're

to puttah me and I'm I'm gonna yeah my yeah and and careracic narrasically narrasiness

it's with penuacinan confidence 100% so so so that if people not

not get not know not sure scientific and scientific community gagal to make

the people to make education to people we are at the mercy

of the the the Dukunz for superstition. Yeah. Yeah. Don't even antagonization

people who who are people who are to Dukun this. Yeah. To where again

I'm going to because I'm going to go to Dukun, yeah, I mean, but where he has to go he has to UGM,

that's, Tanya Dosen in the Bidang Faculty of Medicine. Datang to get to get to

get to get that, that's point, yeah. This, this, this, back to the year-five.

I, too, endbacan the time, where we're really, really, is to be underpictivist that's maximum. Yeah, right?

As a gambleran productivitist our, it's, that's, around, per-one per-one. Singapore,

$190. $1. $1. per-ohrown. Ujung Ujung-Ugul-n-da-shaing. If we're going to be able to be able to gain

productivity. And we're not can't be able productivitance to focus to STEM. Yeah. Because STEM

is that can't moreact than productivity banks, man. And if I'm not and if I'm investation for the penitain

this is important this is a massive to the front what you're doing as a guru in the field that's great that's great

but how you're so you're going to make mupuk far more more. Chalon, chalon guru and

chalon chis-o-sis-wee to-depan to the end-of-o-jong-n-you-n't If, if this is it tempel with the beberadaan, thecerdasan artificial, the beeraddaean geordasan biologis,

and singularity or amalgamasi from the two things, this will be manifestation in the peninkatine productivity our that's very, can, to the point. Now, if it'samong with the usasan

which, before this, we're really, have to look more the students of the students Indonesia

be participation in STEM. Not only in Indonesia, but in anywhere, where they can get to get

the the new STEM that's solid. Not just not the problem that's the same

that's also want to support in program program STEM, but also there

has a gender or one sex who's in the diversity right.

Diversity is still there's no more than a small. But, but still male dominant. Carus that, we need. We need to be able to stamp. If it's, if it's a good to be able to be better better than.

In Taiwan, because I've been been in Taiwan, the people that are in the pinnard is in the bidang that's semiconductor. Because he is dominant player player at the SMC,

the SMC, and that's all the high-paying job, all the same there, so. So, in Taiwan, it's not medicine, the same thing that's the same thing,

to the media to the electrical engineering or computer scientists, or whatever. I'm also, so, so, so, so, so, so,

so, that's, like, that, because, there's incentive in that. And the problemasal of Indonesia, there's, there's,

there can't, the person who can have been the business that if I'm if I'm

a doctorate in the field that's very avant-garde so state of the art

stamp research where market my market my market yeah yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah now now this

this this can this time this part um uh... uh...

uh... strategy of the pay pay people, so they're giving money

to learn about STEM in the but he must come to where they have

to do that. So who want to get that I'm going to the

end of the end up I'm back to I'm going to commerce, kind of market or social sciences

and things so much so much. So, not sosus amat to know

why demikian, that's, no, this objectivness is to, maybe there's

a good about, agar there's a problem in the position, or postur

people. I'm, I'm, I'm, maybe the forum this is used to

use- to socialisac can get- important that's- that, because,

you know, if, if, if we're to them imbuoak can the number plajar stem far more

than what we see what we're going to be more than what we're not really to be able to get to be in it.

That's one one way. The two, I'm going, I'm going, I too, I'm using the payaiationate

S. Why, so, so much, the bobot is more to S2, S3.

Right, right. Because, okay, like, if the argument that it's more more than it will beaugh

to pay someone four-town or five years. But economics it can be justifications can. It's going to

time frame. Beto. If we're people people we're paying people but we know benefit-neat-e

or economic benefit that, plus-ne much than than minus it in the next year this can investasies for

10-town to depend not there There's no, to have to make-enan-can things like this. Of course. Yeah, right.

Yeah, right. Come-and, I, with a friend at MIT who, who's in 18-year-old, he's been made two of the menace we're doing people, we're being

saying-can, why, the people that's just one every time, in program of one, in MIT. I only have used MIT,

because this one-satun, but this is one of many people of the programs that's great, not there's a lesson. For we can't make gole-khan to get to program that one.

And, because that's what that's what is done from India and other and other. Even Singapore is more better than we're even more than 10 to 20. Even in the country

with population 5.5 jute. And metric that they're up or look, it's only Olympiae. Olympicida science. And it's very much

reproductions. Yeah, we've got proven, we've been from buhacking product that's great.

Many gold medalists. So, we can't just end up demand can just, he bimbel how much

people, and for he can't, whether it must, perug, or demaguer, sorry.

Forgue, that's biology, physical, mathematics, and line, line. So, so, yeah, can't be able to be about about, there's five people,

there's 10, there 20 people who are who are people who are there's strategy that why we need doctor, why we need master, graduates, and what's butchlear

and why need bachelor. Yeah. If argument is investation that back model ascept much, then to doctor. Yeah. He'd back,

he can't just he can't just. So, point-ne-framed strategy-ne because not everything we need is a mashisattor

what we need. What we need is very young undergraduates of high competence to make people

manufacture in Indonesia. It's it's got to make, they because curriculum in English,

in America tuntu, better than research that relevant with industry in there. So, S.

One, it's still familiar with what what's going to in Silicon Valley. And he will comeary, must be much PhD.

I've got to be PhD, who's almost 30 years. They're not full of energy. He's going to be a person. If you're going to be

playing the sepac ball, I said to talk to Parcita Sucke Arsenaal. In the the team sepok bowl, it

has experience captain. And there speedsters, and all the same that's the same 19-a. We're not.

We're all we're doing. We're not not even, yeah, it's, allie, playmaker,

like, so they're, there's, there's, there's more, there's the one, there, the other,

S-1, S-2, S-3. All-Nor have had been down the scale of certain. And S-1

has been on there to be there. I think that's right. This, if we're, this,

this is, this, this is, this is, constructsically a story and Indonesia will be kind of

if in America, in Europe, in Australia, in Hongk, Japan, it's representation from Indonesia.

That's with scale that minimum 10-lipat more than now. And I, I think

to bea if I'm if I'm think that 100-juta people can be bas-assing. Yeah.

It's better. Omongan people on the people are better. Yeah. Because it is each

and each will be storyteller. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right? You know, you're storyteller

Indonesia in Nottingham. Yeah, but, you know, if you're not, $99,000, $999,000, $999,000,

$999,000. That's not. That's not. And, maybe the basic just, the conversational, that.

Okay. Okay, this is the question the last this. What we have what we have done? We've got

about many things we're doing about to make sure to emasasance in the year from 245. From the sissy like,

mathematics, like, penidik, like, philosophy, or whatever. There are many people

that I can't be able to think, but the most the fact that people, even, even,

And for jutsa people, people are phasing. We've got to we're just on we're just we're supposed territorial,

and in secareratorial, and in the same language, we're in English. Okay, fine. We're fascih, bashed Indonesia, 270 million people

speak Indonesian. But, but it's still the time that we have done is outward-looking. Indonesia, this is not again has

been to be a country. We have to be under- In-Vosity. In-Vosity and inward. Invisible and inward. We're

We're going to We're going to work again. We're successful making up unworked can poweringinging the world

and Indonesia but need ambassadour new to make sure about Indonesia about Indonesia and bring

serta Indonesia in canceh Dunya Shading good lights into Indonesia anywhere they go

they go they're there must be there in institutions institution that prominent

they have to bring about certain the importance of Indonesia there's because because of

their way in Indonesia or in the world in the world globally more and more interconnected

that's a whole that's something comeary if they're going to go ahead

Singapore. Okay, no matter. But we but we need narrator where Indonesia lewatenna

can be power that's more more than and perhaps and per people mancue

of the diplomacy from your command of you know that's going to get rid of public

and the ministry of finance and other and so much that's so much

framework that's with strategy Indonesia menu global superpower in the future

even in scientific domain wow wow great yeah it's about time

Nobel when in the number you? Well, how long did the Chinese invest to get the Nobel Prize? Few decades. Nottingham, there are two

Pemenang Nobel in there. One, because menemucked MRI, one, because menmooking theory in the economy. So, I'm benefactor ecosystem, where there

Pemenang Nobel in there, and there legacy in the Bidang MRI that I, which I said in the research, while even the capacity in the Bidding.

If many people Indonesia to be able to mindset Yeah, the problem not the problem

we're not quite, we're not we're not we're not about the standard Pemenang Nobel Right, that's

exposure. Exposure. Oh, this, this this is, this is, this So,

we're going to come, ah, it's just just like that's just like you. Padal right. So, now it's like you

like it. Yeah. More than in ITAB than in Taiwan, you know, but more than the more than it.

It's really very, very very difficult. But he not know standard Nobel Prize winning is like what.

Yeah, he's kind of national Nobel Prize winning Scientist is what? Makaning

what, see, every day? Biscusiness with community what, so,

that if people are people who are people who know, they're being

they're being standard Nobel Prize but I'm think

that I'm B, U UGM, ITS, BN, S, BNus and line and

line, that, it's, at least top 50 la in the if you

look at Yeah, right? Yeah, can, it's still. Masy

Joh. But if and, and, you, there, can, yeah,

There is, there's not, is the hausen from them to move to top 50, top 40, top 30, top 20?

Not there, no, yeah, I see, there's a hopean. Okay. There's a time frame?

Time frame, I think, I can apply to mathematician. Yeah. I'm looking trajectory, so I can extrapolation,

while upon it is one-stituary to predicts. But, the way, the rank university in Indonesia

in the final five-towering it's really relative naic. Yeah. But, but the problem

it's not much. But, the problem the standard that's not the body the banking. Okay.

That's two ha, lo. There are universities who have been slantorkegust even to want to

make down in league tables. There, powerful and with it and with it's there's

there's what I'm what I'm what I'm looking in Indonesia, what I'm really help band to happen

to make metric. So, for the time time he can don't crack ranking it

but but percuitly he has research power that's really justification letak

in the league table to be that's about there's there's there's there be

some maybe we can't composition dosing low-nagree or composition murgit law-nagri, it,

but productivity paper, citasi-paper, that we can't be able to payer. That's the point. So, I'm

so much the trajectory the next, one-saturation point in because he has been exhaust

some criteria that he can be that they point-in- so-the-the- -the-cou-re- -cha-d-cuit-

to-cure-cuit- -cuit-we-ranking- that we're ranking-nail. Padhaal, to be able to be able to composition international student.

It's genuine research power. Oh, yeah. Now, we're not in the tataran that. So, how we can medawakkan

buddaya that's, okay, 10-town again, 20-town again, we have to get to

get to get to orient yourself around the problems you want to solve. So, don't be cacare to us.

We're going to ranking. We have to try a thing that we can't technology driven by problem

solutions. By war, aerospace engineering is more more than the war. Because there there's a

because there is there is a lot that Indonesia should play in the bidang of what,

or whether whether technology or if there. If there if there if there if there

if there, the the, the, the, quality academic and reset in the bidang it it will bellow

it can mandak in there but if there there's a there's a good important urgent to be able

abo and above on the people are there must know where he has to know he has

letack can people people who both together and be lembba lump and make

macha can because we can't make sure we can't make sure gender equality how we

can't matter we can't the issue human trafficking. There some thing we can make sure that we can't

that's people are lomba lomba. Misalya, I'm going to say to Bali. There's Elon Musk there.

Market the big Vee is in Indonesia for the aircraft, electric aircraft. Indonesia not China

and the country continental. Means of transportation in Indonesia that's put to doodidate

through method electric transportation is aircraft or electric ship because battery has still putterbatsen

down co-ca and we have we have power and we also use someber data in there mind just

play in either. Automatic can't it's not quite it's not yeah, journal publication

excellence in that will be-and-as- but not the first priority-n't so, it's the

numbering so that's priority has somepid there three or four, just per-massalal yeah

when you the ranking priority people who not not move to be there why not not make

the issue I'm going to there. There's a cutegasan too. Now, it's more

more than than it's more than it after the last. The gender, what we have to do?

So, the way people are more participative? I'm there's there's

the people people from the data is clear. You

You measure IQ across the spectrum. Lanky, men, women, there are different. Maki, there are perubhani in the bidang distribution, but, in a quantitative,

same. That's, yeah. What's, yeah. Interest, this is, this is a

thing that can be modification. Social engineering, if you may, that, that's, there's a in the

stand that's that's the time among amonggill whilep even though, even if you're

being bansanser than again countries like English who have more people who are the university

that's a university that in the U.S. in U.S. Rector is women. Actually, dibandingan

Japan, it's more more than being able to be able to Indonesia, but, but,

but, but, but must be more more. I'm still there demystifying

stem in the community women, women. So, they're not like

to make it's about them among the domain lucky only.

So, we're talking about pedigation. Pendidikin intinia is, is,

there's being to manifestis our our the first the version of

the person that's people people, the people, And I think

like, the guy not monopoly back at can stamp. And it's already Indonesia

has been more talent from pool that's more and if just only lucky that can

acquisition domain stamp, it will be very we're we're we're

Dr. Karinajua we said we know we've been researcher in Harvard we

have researched in Japan Associate Professor Sastia Putry. Many. These are prominent women.

They won awards. I'm already get to know with Nova. Nova. At Harvard. Harvard. MIT.

Berkeley. People have to look at these people. Hera Sudoyo. That can be able to be sosuk. That's true. That's more

more model. Because because people are more sensitive to emulasi model from

rather have some kind of protocol to make to make a this is like this

like this he's like he's like this he looks people, because model because model that

is immolation and we have had had been gender oneita amen okay

thank thank thank you my pleasure my pleasure absolutely wonderful Talking to you.

You know, that's, that's, Mughey Adi, assistant professor at Nottingham. Thank you. This is N-G. Yeah, so it's I want to talk about many times by the department

in kinia. It used, it was, applied net that's, yeah? That's right. That's,

that, romantic, that's, If we're going to win If I'm going to stay I'm going to I'm going to try to To be able to try to This one

This is Okay, We're going to stay there Yeah Thank you Thank you very much Thank you very much Thank you

Thank you very much, thank you Thank you very much, good, Thank you very much, thank you