Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Carina Joe: Next Pandemic & Future of Bioengineering

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Episode ini menambah daftar panjang ilmuwan anak bangsa yang berperan penting dalam peradaban. Dalam darah sebagian manusia hari ini, mengalir hasil karya Dr. Carina Citra Dewi Joe, Ph.D., pemegang hak paten vaksin Oxford-AstraZeneca. Carina membagikan kisah perjuangannya dalam mengakselerasi pengembangan vaksin tersebut selama satu setengah tahun, yang berhasil menuntunnya mendapatkan penghargaan Pride of Britain. Namun, COVID-19 belum usai. Masa depan juga masih menyimpan tanda tanya pandemi lain yang bisa kapan saja datang. Karena itu, Carina menegaskan pentingnya dunia untuk memetik pelajaran berharga dari pengalaman ini agar siap dalam menghadapi dan menyikapi tantangan pandemi selanjutnya. Carina juga memberikan pandangannya mengenai ketimpangan gender di saintek. Baginya, keberanian adalah akar dari kemajuan—termasuk inovasi vaksin Oxford-AstraZeneca yang tidak mungkin lahir dari nihilnya keberanian Carina dalam mengemukakan dan mempertahankan pemikirannya. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #CarinaJoe ------------------------ Magister Kebijakan Publik SGPP Indonesia Pendaftaran Maret 2023 admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: https://endgame.id/wanderingscientists https://endgame.id/thetake https://endgame.id/spirituality Kunjungi dan subscribe:  @SGPPIndonesia   @VisinemaPictures 

So that many ofstered from Indianos, female, female, they're feeling, they're not in the other, people who are people who are supposed to speak up. So, so they're not going to be able to speak up. I'm not going to think, I'm thinking, how many experiments this be run with mules. Because I can't doggle one time. Pandemic, not

not it's been a pandemic before yeah Yeah, but true, but that's the same. It's the same thing. Hello, my, people, we're coming Karina Jo,

a senior scientist at the Janner Institute at the University of Oxford. Karina, thank you very, can't be there. Thank you, thank you, Endanguant Yeah. We'll be able to be a lot of

I'm going to golly more than the last year than you're living in Tanyung Duren Yeah Selengeting. Yeah, I'm School, S.D.

The Kmulian 2 in Tanyng Duren Then, then, then, also in Tanyng Duren, after that SMAX 1, BPK PENABUR. Also, also, in Tanyng Duren. So, so, you're,

Lair, from the same from the Urenguhran, Jakarta, Bahra. No, no other keybassan, no-the-in-in-in-in-in-a-cout-the-couped-the-couped. Yeah. But, yeah, mainly, for family, yeah, family's right, the family there isa-as-a-old. We're going to be there.

Then? Yeah, so after that, I was school A-1, at the University of Hong Kong, or the name, S-CU. Oh, too. When I'm still the little bit of the if they're talking about,

whether or the insinioner or doctor, which is popularly the same. So I, so I'm going to know to be what I'm going to be the same, so I'm going to be the doctor because that's popular. Yeah, so...

Even not know. Even not know, not to talk, but the semester the last Guru biology I, I, I'm going to presentation about the bidang of the new

maybe, in Indonesia, but booming, more than the world about the biotechnology. Specifications is molecular biology at that. They can, like, modification genetics, so we can change genotivine in the cell,

and out of phenotypic that's different. That's, it's, I'm a lot of color. I'm interested. This is good-S-M-M-R-S-M-M-R-D. Wow. The SMI is like that, I'm going to say, I'm going to be able to be able to-lawy. Yeah, Mul-Lil-Li.

Yes, but I'm going to do, see what I'm trying to say? I was the last time I've been to be a bit of a bit more than, maybe, for that, but at that, yeah, still there. Yeah. This, this, I mean, this is the technology is very I'm notheric I'm just like, just a doctor who's just

doctor who might could have profusity of harm, but I also want to be in a bit of interesting I'm very I read about

about biotechnology I'm mutusk for school Why go Hong Kong At that I was in PPCC, I'm 1,91. Then I was out of the same 16 years, but I'm going to be able to be able to be around.

So, yeah, the time that was one of the other than the office in Hong Kong. Because they're still. She's not going to be able to do, because I'm not going to work in Indonesia. He's been offered to be a guardian. for Hong Kong and place wise, because because of Indonesia, so that's my parents

musters can just, if there's a problem, my father can't go to the same, because no need visa, right? Because no, Singapore, Malaysia, there's not. Singapore, it's just, because, maybe,

also, it's also, country is very small. Yeah, because... Okay, okay. a month, it's been bossen, it's there, then.

Then just take biotech? Wow. Yeah. And how did the university? Yeah, it's just... Smooth sailing, or, ...aggagg...

Yeah, ...a, yeah, that's, first time, really, really, no, no, home-sick,

yeah. From, from, ...the, ... Because for registration just, building is from the end to the end up to the same. And also, can, in the language English

there's in lesson, but we've never, not even, not even, not even when I've been working. And, by that I was a person who's not been in the University of Hong Kong. He just opened a jalore international. Wow. So, many, many of the students who in local is, it's,

is that's not able to be able to beicah English to say. So I'm still in the English. Ajaratian is in English? But the gurus... But the gurus local is, I'm going to talk about. Guru-gur-local. So they're going to be more... ...courn't phasic.

Yeah. So I'm there's a kind of a bhaasah in... ...belajar in there. Tell you, when, when, a little what's special that's a bit more that's a bit more than

yeah. If at the ASMA, but if you're in school there, there's not a pathan where you thinker that you're being

different than the before the previous before. Yeah, at the time to the world country, the first time,

yeah. So, I think it's, the part of biotechnology, so, application is a lot

that's that I think. I think this is very important. I'm quite despite everyone saying, this, it's not, not going to move away, you know. You know, I've got, there's who said, like, the people of the people who said,

what kind of, technology. The most maximum, you're being salesess, you know, salesis. Caution, said, you. That's, you know, that's a lot, so much, so much as far as school as they said it's like that's what do you know what's how wrong were they yeah then yeah then what's how long how long time i'm

I'm in three years yeah just 19th time yeah yeah 19 to 20 yeah then then you're still being or even sure I'm at that at that time That's right to TOWR in direct-to-furt, right?

Yeah, in Hong Kong. Yeah, so in the NFL, you know, because in the capital, you can't convert to PSD. So, it's also 3-year, so that's a 3-tallon, right? Right, right. But the other people are other than other, is the most interesting, the most interesting.

That's the most, you think, you know, you've only 3 years in Hong Kong, the woman, you know, that's like that, people who are who are in Melbourne. And they said, well, okay, you know, okay, you know, you're going to move to Melbourne,

take the jurorses of the other. What is the other than... Commercial cookery, yeah, about, yeah, massac, yeah. That's the command a-a-a-i-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a. Amosan what?

What's-sand-ma-ma-ma-ma. my mom ma'am. the last year's the good skill for your life, for if you fail, you have one skill that you can use in the past the future, you can't open a restaurant, when just. Yeah, that's, you know,

the people, uh, yeah, the people, nashit for me, so, I was good. So, at that I was, I'm doing, even I, I said, I'm not because I'm not because I'm not because of myx. No, but this is just too, he's sure to get a degree.

Ingrammele day. If you're just to make make sure you can't, you know, what's the same-go also can. But this, people are serious really. Serious. So, the role is that's certification that made you into become to make sure. So, there's gistingu-noting-itung-in-ya,

and it's up, really, really, proper course. So, so it's about the business. Yeah, there's budgeting, acutansi, and in the list menu, yeah, in the two years. Then what? What's what, you've learned? Thealajarance is a class of French. Yeah, that's actually the basis.

Not making dim-sam or not, not, masy padang. So, yeah, the basic cookery, So they're the style of the French because they're basic technique cookiri. After that's it, you're going to be chef in the massacist. It's a technique is same. But you can't apply the recipe.

So, yeah. So, yeah, so they're making-cure-courtier. It's the technique cooking cooking. You know, with Sufi, like. And the other people also, not-massal, right? No, the learning. What's the school is? What's going to do?

What's just? Yeah, I'm just. Yes, I'm going? Yeah, so to do you. To lose from school this, we need to be a few hours, like, professional work as a chef, like, I'm working as a chef. Yeah, for the first for fusion Japanese.

Because I'm not like that's like that's like that's But he's back back back back again, I'm going to learn to learn fashion Japanese, what, Nubu? Yeah, yeah. Restaurant Nubu. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. In Nobu, there's also restaurant Italy. Yeah. It's like that you panesaning, that. How long? How long? Total, be work the same 18-month-month-month. Yeah, there's there's there.

So, there's a lot of the last, two-year-old, I was I'm going to, I'm a career as a big. And I've never, even, even, even, even, they think it's a lot of the schoolhan. To massac. Not ever.

They, not. They're not, not going to say, because, at least, I'm still young. And they said, oh, this is the last degree, Deb, you will have cut. and you can't work as a chef or maybe them up to work a restaurant after that. Now, now, now, now, no, there's more than...

More than to make. No, there's more than... No, there's, there's, there's a lot of work for massac. Okay, then, in Melbourne, longung, after cook-re-sul-sense, belajure biotech again. Yeah, so, there's complainting also, so, for, as professional chef,

that working hours so much more than that's like that's like that's it's like to make up until 1st maybe flungingingh like 5th, yeah, 2, 3 yeah full-time is more bad, right? So, maybe day off is just a day, on the day, on the day, 9th. So, yeah, so my, my, I'm not, I'm not, I'm going to be like this

also if they're like they're like they're like they're like you're like if you're too, like to, you know, to, you know, to, you know, to, you know, when you're going to be a good decision. This is it. Yeah, I, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've got to be passion's say, I, so, so, let'sat or whatever, yeah, if we're not, yeah, if we're that's not even if we can't even the restaurant, I mean, there's impact for the customer that. If not there's a lot of this,

they can't pick up to the other so, there's, I mean, the value for them, that I'm going, I'm going, I'd have, I'd have, I'd have impact to the people that's core, that, the inting, that's structural, and lasting.

Yeah. lasting, for their for their, so there's good enough of the work of the If you're not, you're making Massacre, they can't spend the same, tomorrow, again, Sunday, next to be

not, not, not, but, not to make them their, that's. Yeah, not bein'binter, too, but, but, but, I can give, I, I mean, complementary to the chef,

can, but, but, so, but as a bit, in paled in the lidah. Yeah. And then, I think, I'm back to the world of science, it's a bit more than,

yeah, that's interesting. It's also, it was interesting, before, to work in post office also, there, there was a lot of that I asked, you, I said, I was, I'm not satin in my series of, I was playing

work, he said, he said, I said, what do you, you, what's going to do you, you've got to be a gap year? But gap year, but gap three and a half years. Yeah. I think, yeah, I'm going to, okay, no, what's the same as well, because you're not going to be in jailing. This is when in Melbourne, again?

Yeah, actually, hand-roll again in the school Bidang biotechnology. What? School of biotechnology. Nameda school biotechnology. No, the university of technology. R&MITI, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology. Wow.

I, I believe that's because, yeah, from the school that top, for master, yeah, in the field master, they're more than much more than management. But, but that's what I'm trying, right? Not research. Not research. So I want to go back to the white lab, the techniques, that I've worked in the lab.

I mean, for management, I'm not want to be lab manager. Yeah, yeah, nimbung, too, with work in the d'apour. wet. So, how's the process? So you know, then you know, with the last and then you've been

back again, smithing, how much? No, transition, there's argument, in the, in the internal of the

how it's the , ultimately, the time, the last did the time with the people,

they're also, because I was that's when I wasa for the Australia, I'm really. I'm fortunate, see, from S-1 and S-2 did support with people. And,

I think it's in the permuda, I'd come to see, I'd give you, ma'-sertifficat certificate, right, from Hong Kong? The certificate Kukri, or certificate from Hong Kong? S-1. But we're saying, it's proof, you.

that was Gap, so. So, right now, so that's got, and then, maybe diploma of co-couringing. Okay, he said, yeah, did bring.

Argument what that you're using to make up to, that's the decision that's the best? They're still beauchery,

not the part of, which is the , for, to be able to beckon, yeah, But I've been I've been able to be it's the from the same-in-k

Yeah This is the part of I'm not negotiable Yeah From the case I I know see skill my skill set I'm at all

Yeah Yeah Then I'm Yeah Then I'm I'm from school From semester one In the course the first

Professor's I said, because you know, you're not internship in one of the company of the Australian-a-estralia that's best. He's not known, but he asked, I said, I'm going to be the first week first, okay, okay, I'll say, nekhart just I went to see, I'm going to be able to the companyalian-Australi, which, inting, basically, just citizen, in there, it's, and, it's, it's, they're, so many, it's

core, so, so, so the rations of the country is there. Why? Maybe he has to what, or has a feeling, maybe. Yeah, maybe. From, but,

the discussion is, from the course first, end of the lecture, that's, I said, I've said, I've been

worked there, they've been, they've been, they're trying student for internship in lab their lab their.

The company production facility, manufacturing for biologics, like small molecule-based protein, novel molecule, vaccines, virus, and monocon antipody, all they're, there collaboration with universities, and they also take client commercial from the businesses global. I went to say,

okay, you're going to be able to, you're going to be able to. come full-time, I think full-time, I'm also, school full-time, but professor's my design course I, so, so, I'm going to be internship in there full-time, so at 10-day-time, then, then I'm 6, I'm at all the two-time. Yeah, so I'd like, so much, so many times. How many, what, seven-week,

work? 40-jama, there? More, more, more. The work and Yeah, okay, okay, so you can, still master, and also,

industry full-time. And basically, for lab, it's just for me, so, the lab is in the time two, three mingue,

in, maybe, summer, so so I can fit in my schedule for two. Wow. So, too too much,

and I'm also in the head the lab's the company that said, you know, because you're going to do PhD, not? PhDs? What's the master's? Master's two years. I'm master by...

I think, I think, six-buner. No, no. This course is many. Because of work. Because of the time. But, two-time, the two-time. So, so, it's all the time. So, the, the, really, really, did design

for two-tawn for two-tawn. Wow. So the head of the professor the president of the president of said, because you're going to be able to PhD, not? Because you're still working

in, full-time, too. But because I, I'm going to say with Vice Chancellor the other than you ask you to give Biasisua.

Okay, like, if they're, if they're saying, if you're saying, I'm going to be you, I'm going to say, you're going to be, you're going to becky also,

yeah. Still with the work. Yeah, so the concept of the same concept. I'm trying to be in their. So, maybe, pagina, I'd work in Ph.D. Maybe at 9, until 1,000, that's the morning.

Sorening, I'd have worked the project of the company that. Gila. How long, Ph.D.? Silsa-N-a-th-thed-year. Master two-time, Ph.D. Four-tawn? Wow.

So I've got to have I've been a lot of the manufacturing that seven years. And they've been certified, namely CGMP, to know, I know, because good manufacturing practice. That's very good manufacturing practice. That's very good, it's really. Because

it's a good standard that must be used to to produce to be used by like the vaccine, and that's the same, that's often, they're often.

Give you a Australia, how do you have CGMT? CGMA? CGMP. So, GMP. So, GMP.

So, like, certification that's standard to design a process to make production drugs or, you know, whatever, What about can't do you?

For clinical trial and commercialization. There's about in Australia? Yeah, not, but... Pundu-hundred, a thousand? A thousand? Maybe a thousand. A hundred-and. And they're basically, yeah, not...

Not a fresh graduate who have... They're still... ...past. ...that's just... ...as far as a leader by pharmaceutical company that really, really, well, the process it.

Because, corse is very much... Topic. B. P. I designed the vaccine Hepatitis B to be the efficacy that can

10 times compared to commercial one, one, two, I made technology to to target brain cancer,

glioblastoma, using the target that's licensed. So we work with abate or f. For clinical trial. Telling how you can you can't eviccation, 10 times? So I'm going to make a modification from,

I'm using technology that's like particle. So I'm using hepatitispy, surface antigen. So it's like, it's really, but it's just, but it's just, the world's just the structure only but the same way I'm going to be made up to use the immune system more than than the other than the same thing.

There are patent that? Patentia belongs to the UNI and the CRSROM. The most is for the glioblastomase. We're going to make a technology that same, but target can't target the other than the top. so that's a lot more than the same thing. And the third project is, it's been a spin-off company, but at that I was still still.

So, I was still student. So the co-serviscercercery said, you know, you can't include here, because if you include, If you include, APs is the three. So the Uttarer of Australia, the university is the same as a spin-off company. They said, it's not beneficial for me. But I designed to you different technologies

that can suppress chronic hepatitis B. That's not in the world. Take technology that's the same. Yeah, that's a sad at least. I always think of it. I'm concerned with kosher-passer that in the world. I'm going to ask you two I'm going to tell you.

Pandan about IP that's how much it's the way to be it to be able to with individual or with institution and if you're institution that's

academic or institution non-acadamist or two-douin or all together so much so it's so it's who who who has

technology it's that's it's like it Back to the story of your You're the most of the most thing It's the lecat with you, don't know, I'm like a blunder,

so the supervisor of my, so they're not, the jangyant black-on-white. So we're collaborating, collaboration just, so we're also, so we're called co-supervisor from external, they want to work

one project for one to getaetitis I'm nother. But I'm trying it's really, I'm saying, which they're not, they're not able to do in a month. I'm doing.

Yeah. I said, You know? You've been consultations with with friends in Oxford, total consultant-hook

or what, to, to, what, what's going to do This is a crew to you. So when I interviewed for position that's senior postdoc,

I said, I'm working this, but I'm not getting IPing because of this. He said, okay. For this, yeah, it's not bad,

but for this, we can be inundunging the right of you. We're at... At work. Yeah, at Oxford. But,

but for... ...beercuneng-balic to what what's what's about Melbourne? If you're supposed to be able to this, you're going to be able to lose it, because it's a lot of, you know, the institution, it's a big,

the people who are the United. So, they're saying, you know, you're going to be a problem about 10th-a-town-tawned to the next, well, maybe, well, yeah, okay, look on to the next. I have a friend who's who's the other than

that's claim the person's he's actually to be a muchotting to mendug can portion and proportion of the messalance she's

he'd gering to the rule of the long, maybe 7, 8, but after he'd he'd be won't

because for he to and academicismicent, it's important, so that's a big of the same thing. Yeah, so at a time that, you know, the people lawyer, they'd get, like, they'd like, they're lawyer's not,

there's a business development, and professor's, I'm not be wakened with lawyer, but just I'm with supervisor of my, they said, this is, they'd like, if you'd like, it'll be able to, It's a lot of the company that's

They're the company that's I'm working So it's the producting They're still making the company that I'm working for that So I'm not Begrowinging, yeah Yeah, that's also even

Maybe the Landerernery because Yeah He's not prepared From the top of the footings They're they're kind of, so I'm okay, like. I'm grateful to my professor because she's who gave usherstaffirce and

yeah, yeah, but this is a-plagheran. Yeah, it's a-plagheran, yeah. And, and contributions you're much. And, okay, let's continue, in Melbourne, how many? I'm in Melbourne, 11 years. Wow.

Yeah. three-a-a-a-sap. Then, after that, biotech, study, work, yeah, 8-taun-a-old-law, yeah. Now, then, then, then, can't be able to Oxford, how much? So, I've been from master,

from PhD, and super-farsarsar that in the company in Australia, to the, the company, the bester-bestos. They, they're automatically, I'm going to work in there. And I'm over by the computer

in Australia in Australia also. Yeah, in Australia also. At least, the time, the landernery a little.

At that, I'm still... This is in 2020? In 2011. Yeah, in 2019. But, why do you know vaccine COVID? After that,

the year, they made vaccine COVID, but technology is there. I'm going to it. when I was like that. when I'm still

when I'm still I'm still in the time I'm in the time I'm in Australia so we're talking like in Australia I'm sorry I said

I said you I'm saying I'm from from here I'm going to come to competitor yeah maybe work with

we're just but I'm but I'm consultations with boss yeah he said because you've You've been here for seven years.

What you want to learn here? You've already already you've got to be able to learn you're going to to the other, to see the other so, to learn that

Yeah, what technology they're what they have what perspective that they have what they have means, take information from the world,

just one institution just if you want if you want to back, we're taking, with the hands of the work because of the work you know. Why to English, not to Africa, Asia, or America?

That's what I want to know. That's the answer, that's the job first one of the job that I applied. I'm mostly not applied, so there's a headhound, so. So I'm not going to do what, what I'm giving CV. The first to apply, you've got,

yeah, what's there's... I'm doing something. I'm giving CV. Now, actually, really, the people's the phone, so you've got to give me a CV. This week before, you're interview. Yeah, gila, you know, you've already that you know.

Productivity and efficacy. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah, they said, you know, you know, I said, I'm going, actually, I'm going to be able to be in Queensland or to go to stay there,

because, yeah, has given and position there's the same. But I was, yeah, yeah, interview,

yeah. So I, interview the first, I saw my boss my, this is currently mostly, more buddap,

there's interesting that they've what they're doing, B.B. Yeah. What? Pola thinkerner.

Polar picker. So, to make a project. I'm just a specialise. What I'm doing? That's from the last, I've got to learn all. I've got to send vaccine,

to be clinical. Massage too, can. Yeah. Immunogenicity, I've worked for disease. And for internship, I'm manufacturing, so, better, so, from the first to the end up until the end. I just didn't make a project,

but I, I, I, I'm from where's from Scotland? he's a woman so he's relatively young but I see there's potential

I can't learn with him so he's not not a manufacturing I know from but I'm from it's so he's it's two times

he So the term I said in interview the day next year, he's already like he's done like he's

motivation, so so, motivation is he's generalis, he can't, he's generalis, so he's medical doctor

and he also, after a process development, manufacturing, so bad a bit more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, ah, so, A, Z, he, he's up, yeah, he's gonna'eroy. Wow. Yeah, then, from interview first,

he's also, he's not able to be able to be able to be. Uh, yeah, so he's gonna beck, he's super-huh, she's gonna, like me. Yeah, people who'd beck, tippe, yeah, and excited, like, so, yeah. In Oxford, because there's hard for three interview. So, after that, we gave – after interview the first, we had to give test.

Tessing matrimatica, essay, and that, didungu-in. Wow. Yeah, that's true, encher, for you. I was working. At that, I, when that, I, when that, was, bad, bed, bed-a-d-job. Yeah, in English and in Australia.

I'm online. Online. Online, online, that's. Offline, that's, not offline, that's in here. No. So, so in Zoom, in the same, in the same, in the same, in the same, in the last year, past I saw, I'm trying, like, I'm doing, but for the, I'm not looking at the other. Trenuant, there's, there, there, there, there, question that, which, but I'm still up with

it, but I'm sorry, it's just, it's just, I'm sorry, that's, I'm not, that's the, but. they said, for you, for you know, you're dispensation, like, you do you're doing, you're doing back, yeah, all, I'm working with, I'm working in the room, so, I'm so, I'm a candidate that's top, I'm, like,

the, yeah, the first one, yeah, so, yeah, so. And they, they're, uh, man, you know, you're, you know, you're, you know, there's three. The third, to to the other than to come to the lab to get back

and they're actually, actually, it's really, it's really to work the lab. But they said, for you, yeah, not we're not, we're just, we're just. Yeah. Yeah. At that,

the... POSDO at least, it's very low, It's not much more than than the industry in Australia is Yeah, Yeah, but it's why can't be that? Bidda really? Yeah, I don't know, maybe, biopolitical or what, they're all,

yeah, academic, in-gaggaggagely a little, especially in Oxford and Cambridge, than the universities that. Because they've got to know, but... Not even, yeah. Now, the person Ph.D., I don't know what? What do you?

I'm going to happen? It's just to be a good job. He'll just get a gaijie that fantastic, yeah. That's... That's... ...emangue capacity reset, if talenta, talenta muda, it's more to take the industry,

from the left academicist? Yeah. So is there's... There's a lot of quality of course. There's a lot of universities. Even top, but he's going to be able to hire postdoc. Wow. Yeah.

I also have already given to say this. Yeah. This is about a lot of year-in-dalen to-despan. Yeah, for university, now they're already advertised for years, but not got a candidate that's good because... Yeah, temptation is right. right to industry. He doesn't...

He's not to have to up or sub, or tube, like, he would want to go to car. Yeah. So, when I was... I said, I was going to be able to... I said, I was going to be given. To be it, he said,

she said, the gageeer to be what. I'm going to. He's agate. Yeah, this, I... This, I'm... So, I gave maximum, that. I...

When, when, I was... ...like, once... ...as, you... ...the gaggad the gaj... ... ...the... So it's going to pullin, I'm going to be it. But it's not a problem. If it's not even more than.

But this is, this is it more low. This is idealism you, that for you, it's more important to be able to make sure to make sure. Yeah, by making resett. And the project is better, better, better. Not what I've been trying to, because I've ever been trying to, I'm in Australia.

Right. Right. Yeah. I'm never, I never, I've never, I've never, I'manguifacto. Okay. Ibarat Kata, even though

even if I'm not about I can't make sure, for the way for the impact. Yeah, for the impact. I mean, I'm going

to have a meaning. But, but I'm not, but I'm not, I'm not, but I'm notic too, as well,

asal, there's on the table just. Asal, the food in the way, I'm just, I want to wanty-

want to y'a-o-e-e-a-u-k. It's not-enacted. The weather's more than the way more than to Australia. You're going to go to Australia. You're going to go to the U.K.? It's the back. So, everyone. Yeah, at least in 2019.

Gila. At least two serenipity, right? That. Now, that's not there's not about COVID-19. No, no. No. Then February, yeah. Then-ur-February, yeah.

So, how? that's like that's about it's about it's about it's chronology so I'm going to be it's kind of I'm scared I'm trying to technology in universities it's very different than I'm backward yeah backward yeah I'm going to say universal Oxford

that's the top or Oxford but yeah technology is just in the industry yeah I think this is lab yeah butut yeah Ouch. Sembid, I have to everything. I have to work on the power. Powder, I must be able to work on the same.

Because the reality, one project was taken by one postdoc. What I was that was still new. So, many two, three projects, detain to take one postdoc, from the first to the end. I'm afraid. I'm going to get, how to go back

to Australia or what, but it's been to the UK, I'm like that's gengsi. Bengi. I'm back again, but I'm going to go back quitter. I'm going to take Twitter. So I know. I sense it. I'm going to puttussing.

I will follow through till the end. How do you? How that's the thinking of you? to be in the way to beaubes in 2020, there is there's a or a bit of the other think that this is maybe or not mcuing?

I mean, I'm pessimistic. I'm thinking it's not-mook. This, this, this technology butut. How do I mean, how I'm trying to make, when 12th January that, target is, For clinical trial, how many of the

But after 100,000 doses, and then, but after three million, I said to provide three million doses. I said to supervisor, I'm going to crazy, this is impossible. I'm actually black-blaken to our source size. If I'm not saying, it's a lot of the road. I say, this is badok.

Don't do. That's what I'm going to be doing the modus is. If I think I'm really, I'm going to say. But I know because of the way of the because I'm actually I'm the project in the University of Oxford

to make process so that that was the same was the fact that I was the project from my boss of my because we're not working

rabies just right and why and when like that that when that rabies and LASA Fiver

that The last half the other than I'm about about it. I'm not. I'm trying to work for the other than they're I'm in time. But at the time it's the aim for the only 10 liter, like, for clinical phase 2.

It's technology, same, Chaddocks, chimpanzee, de nefaris factor. But aim is, yeah, for two-town, I think, okay, it's, it's, it's gampang. I'm doing, so, aim is to make up to the same to get ridges of

the same to be used clinical trial in PES2, P.S. They've already started clinical trial in London, in Oxford, and they've started PACE 2, P S3 in Tanzania, in Africa, for Rabias. The aim of it. I think it's just a good

I can work in the time two weeks. I see the process of, I know what what is the work on. That's, That's if we're in estimations of the epitheliology in Quattal 1, 2020, it's kind of menager about.

Yes, yeah. And it's been mrs. And it's, it's more than, drastically, not the pola-pickered at Jener Institute? Yeah. And, it's, to focus to radias, dialligan. Yeah, after that, so... So, so...

So, so... So, time frame, yeah, I came to Oxford, for the Augustus, there's one like orientation, Augustus, September. I started ordering ingredients for starting process, right? August, September. This year, 19.

Okay. But it's more for rabies, but the basis is same, but it's just modification, that's the same, from technology in vaccine, not limited to vaccine, too, from RNA, faravent, DNA, we can't even if we can't even

target in, for disease and other the disease that's the other. That's interesting for me. So I'm not in case, but technology that I'm going to be able to be able. Perbidiaeotan, pedagatance that's being taken by AstraZeneca, Oxford. This is RNA, right?

Dibanding vaccines and other? What is it's the fundamental? It's the phytoc, the phytok, from the chimpanzee-edediparous, viral factor, this is the base is not a manor. So, we're basically made by phyzer and monolitha. We're from the antinophirus, but originated from chimpanzee. So they spread in chimpanzee, but not spread in human, but it's been infecting manusia.

So we have an antineovirus, this is like a common cold virus. So we're not beahia we've got to beaugation and not replication in the down the other menacea. But we can get a genetic sequence like if you're

that's the day one it's been published sequence. So, we're, we'll take the sequence that, what,

spike protein sequence, we're making to genetic aurest this we, we've got virus And after the virus is it's vaccine. So, virus this is an infection

human-manusia and mus-susufi DNA from spike protein this. So cells, cells our cells, we're reproductions from COVID-in and spake-protein, can't be badahe. Comethame, just protein, though. And that's that's the immune response our. Yeah, it's what's what

did what do with pharma-farmesaned? Yeah, if for Pfizer and Modena, you know, modified in the amaranet, so it's more direct, because from the viral factor from virus, they have to be made it, then after, amaranin, then, then, they're protein, right. If the pastor modern, man, man, but it's, it's, but it, they're, they're lipid lipid is like a lipid. Lipid, it's like lipid, like the antinovirus,

but they're more direct from the DNA, but they're to the marine, then, after that, to protein. Dr. The other, what you're doing? What you've done, what you've done? that Pfizer and moderna, but that's what, that's the fact that we're faravactor,

there's technology, but it's not it that, so we've got to be made in that year, so we've been long list of safety and immunogenicity, so that we've already in clinical trial for Ebola, there's that, there's like with COVID-Sysk-CoV-in-Ni,

mirrofen, and coronavirus, but it's a bit better genetic. So, we've got complete history It's the theory, complete data. So we know this factor this has high immune response and high safety profile, complete safety profile.

This, if I heard of the story about you, you know, in laboratory — Yeah. ...ituped there, right? Yeah, it's there, the life.

When this is out, COVID-19-19. You know, not there's social life. Yeah. Yeah. How traumatic was it? It's traumatic until now. It's kind of, in laboratory.

Maybe 15 hours a day, there's... Yeah, like, less time. And weekend, you can't work, right? Yeah, seven days, a week. That's because of the ininioninging of your own, or amazing from the answer, this is that way to be able to be a lot? Or what, how that? Not there's a king of

any kind of to beignation to be able to. At the time, yeah, so... Urgency. So, I'm... So, I'm... ...sohnoburned by...

Supervisor, I... I've done, the project that I'm... I've worked in two years. I've worked in one month. I've got it... ...itivitititit. I've worked... ...their experiment.

The first, I've got to do... ...theirer... ...I've got... He said he said I'm from 2020. 2011. Okay. So that's before the December, I was still, there's time to come to Australia.

Three-ming-u-U-Sudak. I'm back to the U.K. It was at the end of December. So, before-pand-lead-up. So, January 2020, they said, okay, we're going to inform the vaccine COVID-in-COVID-in this. And then I'm okay, I'm not, I'm going to think of the month February,

we've said, we've got to clinical trial date, yeah. But, they've still had process. They've got to put up, but at that time it's just to make up enough doses. It's just for clinical phase the first. Wait, but the algorithm that you've made up, to scale up, is it's enough to make up to make sure not to make sure can't million billion.

That's just about that's about I think this is quite but it's quite small as well as I'm experiment and it's just upstream.

I mean, the process production, the process, purification and that... Okay. But that's relatively more straightforward,

downstream, yeah, so... So, so... So, so... So, I know how much But more complicated, many people have been there's

before it's been validation, as well as far as far as far as. Because we have quality control, that's the most of the only rungit, right? Fair enough. Yeah. But the way is the upstream. Upstream, yeah, it's hard.

It's notarckxia, because it's we make cell human to make it. It's not. How much that, of the time? How can't how much vaccine in calculation you? So, so I think we can do that we can do with 10,000 doses in time one liter

if we're able to adaptation this. Okay. Nambung to a million a million, how many, how many liters, So that, at the time that we had 200 liter because the MNs is the first of the first of the maybe, uh, ujiclinis in the past 3rd. Okay, 200 liter, 2,000. But I just have process from 2ndo-mackan.

So, 30 mil. But they said, in the time 1-1-1-1-1-month, you have to have a process complete that's as well as to see GMP standard. So we have technology transfer to the GMPP lab. but you have beenonged protocol that's all right. They're looking at the supervisor I'm saying, this is impossible, you are crazy.

At that time we're small, not having funding. The energy is just, only the country individual is just myself. And we don't have time, so to give the background. So to give the background, If you're based on 2nd, for 3, 3,000 people, and 1,500 years, 1,000 to 2 years. I just have a 1st 1st 1st month

for work that, and that's the senior postdoc that was helped me. I said, okay, there's been there that's been helping, but at that, COVID is agonas, she's like, he's like, he's not even, he's not.

So, he's thinking, I'm sorry, Karina, I can't get left again. I'm going to leave again, I'm at the room, maybe, to be able to the kind of the kind of it. I think, okay, yeah, want to be to say, I want to say, I'm going to be able to be able to be. You know, I'm going to get, why.

I'm going to understand why lab. You realize how heroic? At that, not, not, not, not really, it was a lot of the problem. It was really, there was a lot of the problem. at that. But... Gila,

so, so it's the technology that you're that's still able to accelerate. Yeah, right? Process vaccination or... So, at the time, that, the gener, the boss, the system is, said, so, we can't...

We can't get a few hundred doses, we can make a few times, we can make a factive. But, so, so... So, so... ...the scientific curiosity, can, we can... ...ch clinical trial, and...

P. P. ...P.S. ... ... ...the-1, case two. ... we can't distribute it's a big problem. It's the same as we don't have a vaccine, don't? Right, can't be able to be fussy

if it's not much the heart immunity. I think it was the question of the polio, for the fact that, before it was before, only in the time in the penangooning polio, We can't even a day. So, that's a bitterbatasance even if you're allopinia even if it's been able to be executions,

that's also, it's just about it, can't be able to. Same as wrong, can't be wrong. You can, whatever in the lab that little, can't make the vaccine that's the most, but if it can't be trans-larsely. It can't be trans-suntic, too. Can't be translation to people. Yeah, same way, wrong, that's just a bit of paper,

But that's senior postdoc that's not beaunted or not being you you can't evening you can't beban mental, beban moral, bebeck, what's just-macem-like. How stressed were you? So, to be able to think, for stress, for me, stress, even though, no longer than that, no other, no other,

I'm not, no, I'm going to, there's a gap, I'd go to 5, 5, 5, sudut lab, when one building empty,

all, all, do you know, so I, there's, also, I, so, so, many,

bench, that, we, did, we're, small, lab, group,

we, but, because, one building, it's, that's going to I can use a bunch of for set up experiment

I'm going to be able to five places in one time because I've done experimenting many and there's no, there's no, there's time to think I'm stressed, I think

how much how many experiments this work with mules because I can't do not one But at that, all the data from the company.

We have to do you we're doing with funding apopun, so we don't get funding from the government, we've got to be the budget of other, in allocation, but, actually, it's not enough, but we just, and we just just, we need,

help from the Bainty Industry Association, we we send email. So, so, I just made a consortium. That's that's that's about collaboration,

there's a couple but they're null, no, I mean, so I have to provide data to them,

how much how much training and meeting with them. This is how the way, and we're metepad the time,

clinical trial page 1, they've been they've been due dosis, clinical phase two, has been

I'm from the dosis the first but they're not the two doses, right, can regimen the two doses. So, not can't gagged, and yeah, the, I mean, the, the,

the patient's already did, so, they must, have, there, dosis the two, but we're not there, the vaccine, yeah, want to do do what, so. So, I was, I'm afraid, ma'amara, like, I was supervasor.

There's just one of the meeting, I'm at the building, between the two. So, so the betterbatasance? So, there's no power. At one institute that, who,

who, who knows how much the way work for the process is just my, I mean, for, for, for, for, for, for, if there's a lot,

if there are people other who can be working, and they're more, I'm not maybe, I'm can't, for this,

for this, yeah, I'm not, not the British, that's... Wow. Because that's the other thing that's just I who can't work in, one of the ones that is it who is can't work that, just me.

So, that's just the last side of the same, serendipity. I don't know how much the place, in the place and maybe in the time that, I don't know. Like that. So, so. Not many who know, you know. who's who's who's who's... who's...

...that's... I'm not... I'm... ...the... ...the... ...the people left I know. ...the people left I know. ...the...

...that at the room at that when they were back back again, they said, Oh, Karina. You look like ghosts, ...you look like ghosts, Yeah. Social life if you're going to live

okay, well, past you know. Not, no. But, but perception of people on the about you that's the possibility that's

or what? There, no, there? There, there. There, other, the project manager and boss said,

because you can't be able to where, where, because, to come in the lab, that's just to be,

That's always. So you're not even where you're we're giving them to the time. So I'm going to eat in the lab. And also, no other who can't upload my, two meters. So I'm really, really,

so there's never, I'm going to approach my. And I've ever asked to boss, if I'm, if I'm going to how much? He said, you know, he said, you're still work.

No, no, no, there's not who know, who's going to know. I'm going to, he said, I'm in the lab. if you've got to get COVID, because you're not, because of the bridge through, but you're still working. Yeah, that's the condition of what do you're going to do.

No, no way. There's, in the same year, not even I'm sure. It's not quite not too. Sometimes, not-semot-mast-macken. Passen, it's a pain. But it's still, it's not at a lot of it. It's like that.

I've got to hear about from the people. how much more than what I'mongous that's how much about what you're doing. Because, because,

without acceleration, or technology that can't accelerate that you've been in November in 2019, the speed the time the vaccine,

that will not be like what we're sacksica in 2020. And that's before the end up, before, Tiber Teg, T-B-C-D-E, can commercialization. That, I want to know, panang of you, this, can, unprecedented.

The speed-and-itimpedant, the time it's not even-one, even before, before, it can bea-torn-bathes, this long-hany-a-boh-lars. How many? How that? I'm notherent. I'm in a new work that's why. Why? It's about different.

It's not. At the time, all the world is shut down, because of this. And all resources are deeped for this. Because it's emergency. We're not a shortcut. So, so much that we're doing, it's as well as a regulation that there. just we're like it's

parallel. So, basically, the process development that's very important. Because standard is the standard that's the standard that's the cost of

material, all the most of the most of the basically, the first of the clinical, phase the second as they've got

positive results. They're just started. But, but now, this process development did look on in the before clinical phase

first. So they're all of the risk. We we're going to be able to work. If the vaccine that's not result, yeah, no-papagency. So they're all the name's at-risk. So one process before-seless, he's

the next-the-lasted. So there's justifications to look to the process until the data is all right. He'll actually start the process that's setlany. So they're doing it's a parallel. But so much validations. And the health regulators,

basically, they're going to be able to the vaccine that they apply for approval. At that time, the health regulator just nanging one vaccine. And we submit data rolling, rolling data.

So, every day, we're going to submit data online. Headlogator, the heart rate, it's, it's, they're back. At that time, maybe one, two, two-two-two-deme, what they're-what-what-what-what-you-pick-cure-can-law-long.

We'll ask them. So, that's the quickness. That, if we can do it, for all vaccines or drugs, yeah. We can do that work for a lot of that one. The other, or even the kind of your opinion of you, if it's a result of, if it's has happened to have a virus yeah. Gaple-19, COVID-20, 21, 22,

with what we've got we've got to be able to solve it? This is it more than, to solve, can't? We're going to be able to be it to be aftoosy this? Yeah, so, pandemic this isn't, not,

not, but, there's a pandemic before, yeah. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, Manusia, that's the way that's the same. So, because there's pandemic, you know, like, it's really,

I'm not, not, not, but we're not, we're looking. The pandemic, it's really COVID-19. The immunogenic, the immunological pathway is very simple. So, so many vaccines that lose clinical trial and has efficacies are high.

if the pandemic has been the virus that's more complex, imagine if Ebola, that's maybe, maybe there delay response. So, yeah. ...leby... ...witly distributed, then, maybe... ...acquit's more fatal, yeah,

we are screwed, that. Yeah. Is there is a far more deadly? Pasti yeah, there's pandemic next year. Apocally, I'm not able to predicts. But SARS-in-ni-kopf-2, so there's SARS-Cov first. So, there's transmissive from animal to human. And, yeah, actually,

for now, high-hip-hap vaccine technology, just because pandemic, Sobelius, this is a technology that's a focus not. Not even for profit, for pharmaceuticals, no, not the vaccine is like a child of the only. But because pandemic, it's just, yeah.

Focus here. But if it's been pandemic, it's not going to be able to funding, yeah. Pulat funding it's all. No, no, no, there's no there's no idea. Okay, so you have a realignan. If we focus,

whatever the future to be able to be it's that we can't hang out of the importance that we can't make up. We have knowledge now. Just if support can't be enough to be, I think, yeah, not.

In the UK just science, budget is always the cut. But not in the UK. Yes. other than Oxford it's quite much more than

it's more than it's not not even chary chowan yeah right that's for debathing and not chiroin

for the for the penningan people to the mindingan you want to beca bucahance we're not

we're not consultations so much so that who's the leader's that the leader

that as executor that we're but we're not a matter, but we're actually, yeah, can't work the work of course we're using for people, that's the the reason that. When we're working hard, we're not to know the vaccine, can't be broke or

or not, can't pass through clinical 1, 2, 3. But if it's better, we're meant, yeah, we're people who want, everyone, have the right to get back vaccine, we're getting, we're many, many nations

that have been made, and not have no policy fiscal. And we've got to know, from the history, like, past the pandemic this, you know, the other than the other than countries that are not able to

buy vaccine. So, we're idealist too, we're saying, we're giving, free, that. Okay.

Now, you've got a fact, from the IPs, the Banneding in Australia, Yeah, so So I'm both of the most of interview,

okay, so I think I'm, I think I, I mean, basically, the supervisor's who's going to be able up to get up to, even 95% even who works on postdoc, but he not like that. Cengli, yeah. There's Chengli, yeah. Okay, okay, good.

Yeah, it's just-you, yeah, It's not even though can't even though you can't be able to the end of the penegasance to the same. But for the United States and Episcan, I mean I'm adele.

Okay, like. But if I'm peratine, the predatance that's the use Oxford AstraZanika this is a bit with the

other than other than, more more more than for the importance for people. If the other kind of a little

more commercial. Yeah, more commercial and un-o-uner. Trillion Dollars. Yeah, not just to go back. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to think... Yeah. Okay. I'm going to ask, me, to be a peran woman. As a. Yeah.

To the front, how much, is, you know, is there is an inspiration to, for, women,

to, to, to be there, to, to be in- the world, okay, or,

if, if, if, if, if, if, , can't be able to be able to be sure if I'm being

inspiration but for this point I think this is just the beginning for me yeah I'm also still much so I'm still much more than I'm still having I'm also I'm trying to I'm also to learn much but for if I'm being inspiration I'm so you're gonna see the way? Cewa? is the illu empiric? I'm not that's not that's a student that's a little,

but at that time it, there's a lot of people, because of what, yeah, there's a lot, yeah, many, like, for the environment, but for, for the, for the, for, for the, for, for the, for the, for me position, to the area engineering, right, That we've got to all the manufacturing network that.

Yeah, and there are about a lot of people, like Azores Seneca, we can work together with 25 manufacturing companies in all the world, in 5 Benoit, in 15 countries. We're going to come up at that one time at Oxford College for dinner. Yeah, kittung, like, there are 4 or 5, from 70 people. And I'm just one of the one I'm just one. Sebel, not?

I'm not just five people, the way. I'm aggrimed, I'm going to do with what? What do you know what? What, in other than you know, people who are people who say, I do in Indonesia, can't do,

so there's a ribboan Karinajo? Yeah, so I think, yeah, what you want, you, do you, I'm just I'm from the from the last time. I'm not that's the same to look at least, that's the same thingernery. Don't give up. Yeah, don't give up.

I don't give up. I think they have to have a mimpie. Sampeniping that is ridiculous, maybe people can't, people can't tell about that. But yeah, yeah, dream big, what you want, but don't diem just mimpy just the dream, but works towards the dream,

what I'll do you, that can, you can, so you can, you can, learn about skill what, qualification, if you're going to be able to beaute, we're going to be in a class three, that. No, not there's... Yeah.

Cren. Great. I'm going to back. Taddy, you know, I'm inspired by Bulae, who can't make sense how we can re-rechaise,

code genetica-cita. You're there. to makehyaasa? You can't, if we're not, if we'recaiase guru of C, A, G-G-T, we can't human beings, or

human beingsia that's better? Humanismanian that are different? Humanity? Will it be different? Munkin'am. Will it be better?

Will it be worse? I'm more. I'm more to the medical, yeah. Right. Right. Right. Okay. So, it's more than...

Yeah. Therapeutic. Not augmentation. Not because of the equipmentization, yeah. Yeah. I'm not... Not. Not.

Not. Not. Yeah, I'm not. Support. Okay. If he's sickle disease. Or pediatric blindness. You improve quality of life, like,

not for phenotypic. Not... Tadena. Tadavag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. How about the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the cell gene therapy.

Yeah. That, it's, it's, it's, I think, I think, it's, so, so, so,

It's really, 100% fatal. If we can be intervenes from the first of the same with cell and gene therapy, we need to be able to do with sequencing. Yeah, we can get improvement 100% quality of life. In the time 5 years to 10 years before, surrealistice, we can't we can't

therapy with a lot. Yeah, yeah, but we've been done, and we've seen, the result. In the U.S.

There's, but... Yeah. Cushes is very for chemoilia to, maybe a treatment for one fashion can be $2,000

$2. Yeah. Now, in 5-time it, cost is from $2. Or, whatever,

will turn to be a $1? Yeah, In the time? In the big time? Yeah. It's not.

It's very good. Yeah, right? Yeah. It's very... It's also, if they're... Mm-hmm. Yeah, make...

Yeah, license it's... ...asera, it's right. So, this will be derived by the medagat-commercial, yeah. Yeah, if it's... ...ifutututusant. If it's just about, but if it's just a $2,000,

but if it's more big, that, you know, so... So it's more drive by sikap, sikap like that, not the sikap that research-related. For now, I'm seeing, there are. There, many examples of, not.

Okay. But, but it's not even for them, it's more commercially sensible? It's... For the importance of the people? Yeah, we're... Yeah, we have to look... the leader of the leader of multinational pharmaceutical company that.

What do you have? So what the civil society has to make up? It's a big farmer, it's, to be able to beaiccuhn't. For me, for the personality, it's, awareness, like, so, what, so, maybe the company, that's not to do not just from the profit.

But they need to be able to be philanthropists that want to make the world that's the perfect world. But imagine, can imagine if those people those people, I mean, yeah. Yeah, no say the name of the company, but gila, but gila, if they're in two

yeah, there's been in the last year. Yeah, and there's been there's been, I'm going to put up in here. Yeah. Okay, I'm not too down in here. Now, this is the last

this, Indonesia to the different, how you know what you look at? I always ask 2045. How much how, so there's a million,

Karinajo? Taddy we've got to be, but, restructurktur, to how about howbara hobby, hobby, hobby, or, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because, you know, work-kkerja-kras, and then,

always curious, and, and, you know, about, you know, how, so,

there are a-bou-a- and how, so, Karina, too, have, so, Kina,

too, so, so, that many ofsters from people people people they're noteworthy than than the other people who are people or whatever, they're not able to speak up

but I'm sorry to be able I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not, but in, in, in, in, in the workerjain, I'm, I, I'm called it's trouble. If I think this is a this is a stupid plan. So, it's not supposed to be. So, I have been with this. If you're wrong conviction, if you're

wrong, you're wrong, you know, whatever, whatever, that's, if you're good, if I don't, if I'm not, I'm, I'm working, that I think that's That's what's really. That's what I'm going to do you're going to be a small piece of course that that's not even there's innovation, that the project manager I said. And you're going to

work in a place that democratization things like that. It's not, it's just. It's not. But there other other

maybe you can't give a case to be able to be able to So, what, what, what's not, right? Two, three months, joccur, just, but never,

brady critis senioria, this, this, bodoch, that, yeah, don't, I mean, but you have, have been a strong conviction,

this, if you're right, the right, speak up, mong, you know, work you, work you,

work, you're, people, who, people, who, that's, being,

the, if, if, the, ecosystem, the, , ,

For you, for you're notherian. Yeah. But, but, but they're like that. They're just to make up, coffee, coffee, coffee, copy, and barricade, make rank, and, you know, and in top university, the condition is like that. If you have senior supervisor,

he said, this, you know, you don't want to sit here. I said, not the right one. right one. When I said, this, what do you know? We have 20 years experience in this. You go, but I will still do this. But, but I will still do this. But, but he's, but he's not, okay. So, so they're not, okay. So they're I'm coming from what's korena?

This is... This is about about it's about mortality six and a half jute. Depressing, but if I think, it's just 0.08% from population of the

this this is, it's upharmes, if I'm thinking with Spanish flu in the first of the two-one that's-tenth percent

from population of the What's about about about, 25% of the population of the world. And I'm so sure mortality 0.08 this, nambung very with what you're doing. Yeah, right?

And I think the world needs to thank you. Okay, the last, this. You know, we've got to beck, right, we're going to beca bupoo. So, why you know, why you like you talk about fiction? So, for one of the first of the one of the first of the same thing

I'm not sure in front, not even out of what, I like in, in the same thing, sometimes, for recharge, the energy, I. So, because the workation I, in my opinion,

I'm not, but, but, many, that, in the, lab, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, relaxation. I like

I like a book of fiction very detailed, so I can imagine in the world, so I'm like alternate world, as a way of relaxation, and it's really induced, uh, creativity for me, I mean, the best

I think the best mind is not someone who's senior or But the children's. I agree. The most curious, too, the child is about nine years. This is true. This is the last

here, okay, this is the last really. Why, why the color blue? I think from the little like,

that's a dark like, yeah, next, team balla. The team of the Manchester City. Ah,

because, Because of the blue too, not because of the alian. So, if they're not men, fans. I like halen. Halen. Top. Top. Thank you, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. It's an honor. It's an honor to meet and talk to you. Yeah. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Amen.

Amen. Open the can of form. Amen. Amen. Amen. So, that's Karinajo, senior researcher at Jenner Institute, University of Oxford. Thank you.