Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Denny Indrayana: Penundaan Pemilu dari Kacamata Hukum

Episode Date: March 17, 2022

Mantan Wakil Menteri Hukum dan HAM (Wamenkumham) RI dan dosen tamu di Melbourne University Law School Denny Indrayana mempertanyakan kompetensi dan hati nurani banyak pejabat publik yang akhir-akhir ini hobi menggonta-ganti aturan dan sistem tanpa menyelesaikan akar permasalahan. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #DennyIndrayana Saksikan dalam versi video: https://endgame.id/denny Pre-Order merchandise resmi Endgame: https://wa.me/6282133365263 Info pendaftaran program Master of Public Policy di SGPP Indonesia: admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504

Just to be because of the economy we need to make up, just to unda the human rights, it's not just to be made upstion politic, not pasting, not pasting, economic, can bring us to a crisis constitutional. This is NG. Hello, my, I'maugh, I've seen I'm not yet to social-it-notice I'm going to

for Indonesia that's more from where maybe one of the one of the same one of my idea that's the public policy now that's important

policy and to change is definitely also policies right and to deliver it that it, but to technology, but to

money and put up The problem-emakalizant that's about the problem-asicant solutions for the other than the same the structural, not only in the government, but also in the

business-usahsha, and non-profit. Manton Sejian Pbb. Bancimun, the President of Singapore Lishin-Lung, and journalist Richel Meadow, all of the luson Jurusan Public Policy.

SGBP Indonesia, school of public policy in Indonesia, with the language peniters, is still making sure for batch to bech the new. To detail on the program and how to make sure consultations on the run of career to the front,

hubunging SSPP Indonesia through link that is in description. Now back to the show. Hello, Hello, my name is today we're getting Deni Indraiana, a parkar-hook and senior partner

in Integrity. Hello, Deni, what about? Galbra. Galahabar! Sehat, al-hmdulillah. Al-hmdulililah. Wow, do you know, can get-temu-whalupon

even, I'm very, I'maugh, you can't, uh, majare, maybe we're going to be I'm going to be able to beaure

like I'm going to make of the small you, like you. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm, — sila, sila, sila, can't gettunan can't in Calimantan-Slatan,

how, that? I'm going to beaughan I'm going to ask where? I said, if I was born in one of the island, the island,

the island, my name is Peralaute. Mya'sa my mother, yeah, but I'm also there's dairah from Nenek.

So, the mother of mya, Masha, So, so there's Sunda, there banjar, there,

there, I'ma, Amin. Amin. S&S.S.S.M.A. in there, so, so... So, like, Iya, my dad-shaean-Hu-Wu-Tu-Lautit-W-Law-Lautit-Belio. He, al-Marhumar-Mah-Mah-KMah-A.

So, bekerja at P.T.N.Hutani 2. in the water. I'm in the U-K. I'm in Klaus 1st 3-S.J. I'm in Manukwari. Now, Papua Barat, yeah? Yep. The next to lullus SMA,

I was in Banjar Baru, Kalimantan, South. So, it's my time of my life, I was like that in the world, that's made prima donna, Kayu. When I was likeer, I'm at

the backer-lout, and on the the same thing that Dermaga, the front of the park, ramey so, but, it's, but,

I'm back back in the time, when you were in-sim-P or menelang-Sem-M-A, like that's, yeah, the way of the same of the way,

kake also, that's what then that's why, it's why, we're making of the kind of problematic. Dulled, now, bat-bara, when I was little bit of the same, when I was in the second of the

house kakai, it was, to come from out of the back, the back is black because I injack, that's bathebara. Wow. That I'm injacked, but not have been any of the panamangan,

then primadonan of the now, the clayu's already the clayu's just, yeah, muncule, now primodan in Kalimantan South, and, and also in the Polo Alto. So, I'm in the small of my little,

I've seen uh-huhed-huh in Kalimantan-Slatan Lantas melanchotan study in UGM, yeah three-jamada, in Georgia. Yeah, so I'm, al-hmdol-lilah, after lullus SMA,

lulled, when it was the name of UMBTN, ujian-m-missueinginginginginge, lulled in faculty-sukum U-GM. And it's eschat in the right. Because because of the first time I was, the technique civil. I was not a person who's working in the industry.

Then, the other one I'm in the other, I'm in the way that's in the fieldan. Pilihanixtap I'm doing the third, I'm not. Al-hmmdur-Dilisn't-Ned-hul-in-hook. is something that's more than what I'm inate, what I'm more able to learny. That I'm going to get to 991, lus 9.5. Now, from there, be process at school in Minnesota, America,

There's a lot of the U.S. R. A. Gita, there, when I was school in there, Al Mahatum Ayah, some had been binked, Mr. Deni, not Mr. Dene, I mean, that's going to, how this is going to

have to be done, there's a little of what will be given for, maybe, to start to make up to make up to work. I said, if I can't, if I'm going to go to school. So, I'm going to school as well as a Biasisdha,

myasciwa, Anshawa. Wow. In Minnesota, one of one of one one of the one that's one one that's one that's the one that's the one that's the one who's going to come in America.

When I was going to go to where? I'm going to say, I'm sure? Why? That's the time the cold. Oh, yeah, I'm like, I'm going to see. So that's... ...asalju too, if it's been in the sunsim-dingin,

it's high-sacuzing-sohn. That, al-haber-Dah, I'm sorry, I'm there. And I also got a chance, got biosiswa from the people of Australia to run-st-3 in Melbourne Law School. I'm from 2002-2002-2005. So, yeah,

So, yeah, yeah, more specific more than I'm even medallamy the lawy agenda. Yeah, yeah, yeah, large-biasa. Deney, too, when did not be activeist, whence, since S-1 or before-neous-neous-out-neut-out-est-law? I, if activist, I'm not-a-organization,

little-kil-as, you know, since the same-S-D, SMP, SMA, that's already a new-P-K during,

majorites, the commusawatton-class. And, when I'massiswa, I'm feeling more than because I'm not activists,

activists, other than Revely Harun, that, when I was the head-in- is the head of the head of Spak. The other than I have Zeynall Arifin Mokhtar,

now, also, be an one of one of the people of the law of course. In other than senior, there is Mr. Ganyar Pranawo, who, who is the head of the Carta Alam in the Falkutas HEDUMP, and there Adis Bas-Wedan in the Faculty of Economics,

because of business. So, when I'massiswa, I have a community that's not so much-busha, there's discussion routine, what I'm going to bea-is-is-o-actual, I'm-executive-sac-sysuah, the family-muslims, facultas-hukes-mach-mach-machem-a.

So, it's, if, if, were, if, were, to-em-pe-be-that, Yeah, at the time I'massiswa, in the same, at the same as well-being, okay. Now, then in Melbourne, what's in the law, in the law,

in Newborn, I, the dissertation, said, the other under the So, So,

Indonesian, constitutional reform 1999, 2009, 2002, The term is the evolution-making in transition. So, more than the law of the law of law in the United States, which is the first, after reformation.

And I'm seeing, even though the process is not as a theory in the, not too pachem, There's there, there's gothap. It's called for example. But it's a newbaw, because it's a bab that not berubh, that's a bab about agamah. But, but substansions, from the upurant constitution that's more good,

dibunding can, beforena, is the result that, I think, in my opinion my opinion, I'm more democratic, constitution we're past, before the word of it. And that's one of the most of the most the most of the democratized is, the time of the president, which is the batasied from the way, it's the way that, and it's because, at the moment,

there's why there waccana three-perioda, it's, really, menabrake, semagat, semagat reformation of our constitutions. Yeah. You know, If we did not only a publication national,

one of one point that is a paradox to be about about things, can't be able to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Paradox is because we're going to be in, in many things, at a lot of people say, people, people are going to talk about

and then how much more than amendment under the law and the law enforcement, this, be barbohy. Harusiness, if you're in, that's wrong, first, penundrains one-in-wil-it-allus, as a whole, in a condition of course,

not-dimbingen. So, argumentation, first, because, normal, the way of the regular is a good-of-the-cathed a different-of-democratic. But if, if there's

conditions, condition of abnormal, like, the people are that are badacan, it's been a problem. Mucka-compancyl. With, this is, limited time. So, the, mass of penit-a-old, is very, some of the period,

in the time inunded Pilkada, in the time of 2020, from the beginning to December to, because of the end upal-a-wold pandemic, it's a penundra-and-sud, and we've done. But if penundrains, if the under 2004-27-27, in the cacamata-tata-nagra,

this is not penundation. This is cancellation. So it's different between the end uproendant. If the under the underdata, external, bencana, beacanalam, non-alam pandemic, if cancellation is more because of factors, the reasoninginginginant incumbent to repartan't kweasance the quasance,

without the process the peopleos, that's the people that's called, if you're notalked. Now, if you're going to be done, it can't be done with perubhation because, tunduselation is,

betentangang with the law, endang, the law, the same time final-in-one-one-one-represidation people, betentangangue with

mass-jabbatan president, betentangan with principles of law-cum that in Part-Sal-1-3. If there's the way, can't be able to beaugh. Now, this is the same, because it's been unlawful, the constitution, do not,

the same way of the same way of constitution that the same. So, I'm in terms of, menolak, pemmikiran, if, if you want to beubach, shall be lulling MPR, use Parcel 37, Please use judicial interpretation,

using using the law of constitution, or by the lawy, or melancholyte, or melanching, peters, and that's all the things that I'm all right. Because perubahed constitution, for over-ungar prioritization of the emilu,

perubhan to make-parnage the job-and, that's the other that just-unabraught the Constitution, so, batal demi constitution. So if in the history,

it must be battal demi constitution it, and this is what I want to try I'm not in the whole in the Haryan National with the title, menolk, embattal. So I'm not using the termedown, because penundrains,

it's really, it's very general ucturances, and the restan-alam, and, set up to-notes in-that-old. So it's the same-backed-like-in-lawed-lawed. What's the matter, this is the argumentation fair just to the two-piret, what is it to be able to be able to be a lot for them,

to be able to beaundra? I'm just as far as I'm not mean, the reason that's being genuine, yeah. If the condition like in 2020, there's penundrains.

So, international idea that's in the bidangue-in-the-cli-o-louan in a global, it's not much more than 60s that's 106th-hundred-hacken-a-combeckon from February 2020 until February 2022. More a little that then menundah, about 48, if I'm not clear.

But there that's a lot of under, because of the pandemic. And that we do it, we do it during the time men-lunded-pil-Q-A-D. But now, but now in the pandemic this, and then the other than the other than the other than the other than the other than the other than policy, because economy we need to beckxatiochum. Justru, menundra, it can't makeharder catatig. Tidapartitean politic, the not-pastien economic, can bring us to aarraffic-a-crisis constitutional. because because of the under under the under the UNAWPRA, that's under the UNAs,

whether or the President, parliament, the UNAQPRA, DPR, DPD, DPR, debasthan, and the Uprolera, also, in the perpangue, it's still not a basisarer. So, again, justly, it will end up on the problem constitutional that serious and to contradictive with argument

to give up the situation of the momentum of the same thing to be good. Terbalit, justro with plundraan pemilu, or I'm saying the abatalan people, it justrued, it justeruncum can't

cacowan politics, the humong, and imbas of economy. Because economy, however, it's must beauntled to of the I'm going to take to the economy, yeah. Some of the other points that I'm

discusses, that's one of the point that I'm up is related to penanaman Modal Asing, or Foreign Direct Investment, or FDI. FDI in Indonesia, the person per-o-tournest-oom-in-a- same in Thailand and Philippines,

is $100. But if in Singapore, the FDI per-orang-per-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-oan $19,000. Significant, the difference. And if I talk with the pangu-keptingan with penanmenomal,

it's many comments commentar-commentarer to beacquist in the of the law that's in Singapore, yeah, not ideology, not, is not because the kind of the kind of

different, but, but the end-ug-to-dojun-y-n't or be correlations with the so it's, it's going to what you've

made with what you see what you get-pacquired perception of the notepaction on the fact that's about the un-aghancedure, or whatever-presentation to be it's not even if it's just it can't make a damek that's not too

be a lot of the economy. As a way I said I said, argumentation that's making up-pattelan people, I again, I'm not a pun-undra-an, To take momentum, there's a argumentation because of the end uphapotism that's not so. I'm going to make a lot of the economy we can't.

I remember one story with a person Darsa-agung. He said, "'Mas, this, I'm trying to do not work a lot of people "'emortezing that's more progressive, like. "'Feedback that I've got, "'not too much... but, ma'amondi, how much, I mean, I'm in front of Dany,

I'm going to be back back, justru, if we can't make a newcounter the law, and make sure that's stings to cause of the people, the plangarant economy, to be corrupts, the place,

the purpose, penagation of it's effective, it will beckxed the factian the law, and it's because, then, people, more just as much and more than more than than what I'm saying.

The question is, when there's problem with the corruption is not just as to who, whether, whether someone be, to be able,

more, more, this, that's just- the not-pastien that's, that's not, that's a problem.

That's the Because of the reason, now we're with saddh, yeah, I'm going to lose KPK. That's the good thing. I was termed by the same when I was teaching professor in Melbourne Law School, I'd tell the KPK.

And, sayangna, our KPK our KPK our, it justro, the entire-tuck-n-malt-tie-tank-n-maw. after the PICA. and this is the UNAVACA because of the law because we need to be able to be able to be able to beacques,

which is still out of course, because it's not a car of the problem. So if I'm back to the prosoam of the infestation, I'm sure that the negation of corruptions good. Coraption Index. And the Penedgaken the law enforcement

not judicial corruption, or not practices, practice mafia, the lawfing, also, the development economy is also as much as

as in the sameapur, for it. That's because, since mahasisua, we've been bintucuses, how, It's about the practice.

we're called the Maffia Peradiland. We, um, on the day 500, 400, I remember because 30 April 2000, so 3,400, it's meantook Indonesian court monitoring. One LSM, who was able to

have been baractas practices, practices mafia paradiland, in Joggi. When I was, that's with Gubangu Kyiato from Jakarta. We do this. That's also that we tried to bring up to President Susilo Bambang Yudoyono in 2009, made upendous,

sub-gas, pervertasantasan mafayuukum. So, Mr. President, at the start of the period of the second, I'm saying, Mr. Dena, I want to the first day, the agenda is the pemberatesan mafian, not only mafia parading,

said, Papa, J. I remember, betoly the CIAS that, but mafia hukum, because not only paradilan that has been made the matter, but also, the un-undas-and-kittance,

and so-perusiness. So, Judicial corruption, we, where, the law-cum-the-per-jewal-Bel-Belikan, apparelum in the copulisian, chagrechaqa, advocate,

it's just in making practice swap, menuap, jule, buy, this all the power, be barrenas, one of the first thing, the law, the law,

the endangue, and, do merantasan corruption in the bidanguangu. Sayang-ya, if I can, I, with all right, to the KPK,

to look at now, yeah, is now, yeah, performance of our performance of KK after the other UNDUKKMEMMMMELUCUTI community that there.

How, for the for the better that? That's a day-hary try we discuss with with the men

of the huckoom. We've got there's actually when I'm back to bea perception of the good, it's just as well. It's not as far as quality of legislation our

that's been run, particularly from the way when using the isilah enchant in terms of conduct, the law, uningship, meaningful participation. We're looking, the peruban of the KPK

very quick. The other than Minerva, the law of the non-ciptal-couped-cuita-cure under-couped-culte law-un-un-cuit-nagra-mur very,

it's very much. So, it's given to make there what, why, so much, the participation public is like

what. But, the same thing the legislation problematic, which also not-gall- -mug-mugue

that's the practice practice of the because that's I'm talking about people who are the people people who are the we're talking, we're one of the one we're

actually, there's a bitabat the government that before we've been very we've been evening can, we can bring up the time when the government on

but, but it's just is hopeless and one of course because that's notherstaking what you can't KPK, the power of the power of,

the quatering of course of making issues the dengue mante-corruption, this is again, as a can't, perpinger can. If there's such a survey that still make up to 60, almost 70%

the sufficiency in the bidangu-a-cuh-huhed I look at it's because of populism. So, what I mean, it's making sure of media, through big data, and, and, like, and, like, that's one strategy PR that's good, but, actually, not motet the problem that the actual thing that's the best of the same thing.

I was 2001, I'm notherstaping back in happy-hutuscan to try to try and work in public-practic-practice and one of the conclusion I, on the same peneguacan the people whoop, people who's both in the problem with in the legalisans, in in the process

the same, I'm looking at we're making, now, democracy or dollar-trakit is, decalhackan

by duetocracy. I usepacraise, arting, dollar-u-u-wang. And that, it's all, it's not-mudor-ud- -mud-and-it-and-rere-old.

So, if, if, the question-an-a-many-many-many-many-a. Now, if we're down, if we're down, we're down the way of the public to not-bally-bless-the-swer-ness. From the top, we need to tellat-an, but to, what, yeah,

the people-pimping people who are put-pulled through process that's really, the people's justur, if you're juster, If now, in 2000-upesek-is, there's in the title of the major-te-lawed-you-law. The president of the law. So, same with the idea duitocracy thati, that if you have done that's enough,

then, can't buzzer, big data, and other and try to emas the issue of the campaigner and that's what then they'd do while

to paymills, plus, there's a problem with integrity election, yeah, the problem of the juke and

judicial, then we're, because we're making making people, to make sure, democracy, but it's a pesta duitocracy. Now, this, how we're

we've got made, current duetocracy, dolat duwit, to dollar duet, to democracy, that's in, that, I think, I don't have just plump, like.

Yeah. Yeah. This, we've also have even got to go- with some other other sources of the other that's only

not only in Indonesia, but in the other in democratic semestin, that is people to come on the of the

people on the level that's more with festivalization or or sensationalization which,

yeah. Yeah. with duitocracy, right? But this is a multi-dimensional. Because, in one side, we also must be able to be able to be able to beckyat that's not too be too beckon, so they're very retent

with, maybe, that'stawarant, that'shawarant. And the other, maybe-as-a-cadrissation for the importance of our and don't know,

that's not yet with how, this, the country has to move to the front. I, if I'm going to look, yeah, not only in Indonesia, but in many of countries, to be able-to-facart

to to run-policic or policy-making, it's not gampang, justru, they're more more than more than a preferencing to make a startup, or bekerja in multinational, or bekerjah, or in NGO.

This is quite systemic, can, if we look at two dimensions the decision of the other, the and the two, discouragement talenta, to move in ranah politic or policymaking. Yeah. How that, Dan? Yeah.

If the day-beli, we can't even, more, more, you know, if we can't even, you know, to comegainanan to the world politic, I've been I've seen, dilemma that.

At a time we've got to to make sure, as a lot of government, it's, partarungance, it's not much, actually. We're running,

it's, I mean, it's been going, even since the year 2015, but, I'm going to Melbourne,

2016, to be Professor Tamu, then was 2019. In 2020, I'm puttusk as much as much ase government. So,

so much, the machine, the country, this is still be done back, integrity. But, after we look,

menimbang in the land of my land of myheran I, I'm not, there, there's,

there, to, too, to, even as amput my, what I'm can,

what I'm can, One of the first, I'm from the first we've got we've got to give up, process that's the whole thing that's the result. If we're trying to work of our trust, we're trying to, there's just, the fact that's what,

who's what, there's an issue that's also. So, we've been from the way of course. So we've, from the way, of the public public not want to pay money, not want to buy money money money swara, that's why, that's why,

it's being lazy, I'm sorry, I'm sure, there's many people people who're liqueen who're with the way, the way, the executive, mongue, legislative, in the capital, de-rearra,

but, but, But, sayang-as-sawal-billus that's also, you're not-fieling it's nother. I mean, in order for sure that duitocracy, it's, that's the effect of our process selection politic it, this is that people then when it's not, though, that it's not merit

not capacity, but logistic-in-lawful, and logistic, in-arty-activity, yeah. If logistic, in the way of the post, that's really out of course that's not evenedriced. That's the fact that, I'm going to be able to try and some reasonial threshold. It's a lot of barqueaths of penchantment of president. If we talk, selection at the level of the people,

the mainpinning national. Because, tolepas from deba debaic-neuritin, that we can't be a good-quotan-coquotan oligarchy corruptive, because there are oligarchy that good, as far as a profession work-awan-lawful-wark-wark-werex, there docent, like, I'm a con-admissing that corruptive, corruption-an-bye. Now, it's a point-missue-houtes to then... ...melelexy-sia-cala-callel president

that's as well-of-to-design of the business that's the same that's not fair and soothedness, that's what then, it's the most of the same one of the law enforcement president, that's we've got to be the President. That's we've seen two people of the President's the last, particularly in 2019 and 2014, can't even two chalon and and even belagre also, what,

sociology, our society, and B, and, B, and, the is-a-is-lis-lah which, I'm very bad for the process

of the un-satuance-a-man-sah. Now, I think, we all have more be-bidact, to beaesqueminginginging this. Selection of politics, this is all right-bishop. Even, in one of the first of the facultas-hupac-supum, I don't say, the demilioning, it's been said, be taken to be penguins for,

nanty, Pell Press, 2004. Wow. So, so, so. So, so. to the world academic, and we know that's the way that's the way that's professional, whether that notarist, or is, or notarice, that is, or not that is,

it's also, it's, it's, it's, also, it's also, the power of policy, the people who, which, actually, not even fair. Now, personal and somecum of these that, we have to, we're luresk, and this is a person, at least upon a person, and visioner to then,

to then, to bring back the way to the way to the way in the side of the way. We can't even be able to be repartican, yeah. Pedican political, and then, then, more to give them more than the people. Because in the pastelamance, there's one that

there's Degh, how many people who's may not as well as well as a small to say, I'm saying, if we're going to be able to we can't see how much and they're having a real, for them, for $25,000, $50,000, $100,000 is very and at the same time they're with, there's a certain, there's a lot of

not much of the same if it's not even if it's not even whether or not even though whether or other, but class menhnaa, that's more than we're more than this is more than more than to be more than

we're going to be in a class menhaghan sometimes just to include patisan too, just to include then, not, not be able to think as rational, too, I think of things

such this just more more than than the middle to the because because of the deserousaicants economy, and maybe the penidicahed, it's more difficult to be able to become, we can't be a combing-hitam in the process of the demilu that,

that's-and-and-warnail that. Okay, if we back to presidential threshold, this maybe there two sysi, yeah, from the debate in one-syses, I'ma, that the other side of the threshold to the amount as minimal, it's making upnered can't commurniaean on democracy, but,

in other than the other than, maybe, argument is, it's more difficult to consolidate the public-soulingublean-soira, for the importance of legislation. Yeah, right? Yeah.

to be able to work for debate like this. Because in one side, we want to think, like, to be more than, but we also have to beaumption to make uphexasies and legislation with the quick and bigiaxanaan, but if,

if with threshold that's too, it's so hard, to consolidate to the power in Parliament. Right, right. Pilihan, that's kind of,

it's must be put in matunging. I've been asked, Mr. Deni, more than the other than the other or the people who are the people, I'm saying, for me,

two-douan-itustitutional, if from the hushem of the country, because the head-de-era is the President, as far as the law-undasar, the people are that are being decided decalicate as a democratic. So it's not by the power of APRD

or by the people who are long. For me, it's important, not the process of the decision, but how about, whether or by the people, or by the PRD, there's not a politic-uangue? That's the more important.

Now, Now, if we're just because we're about presidential threshold, or if we're 20%, or not there presidential threshold, each-mash-mash-mash-mash-as-mash-as-as-as-as-as-as-as-a-lus-nus-nus- but if I'm-milling, with looking to look at

that presidential threshold now it's used to, what, yeah, re-recaeasar, engendering, not only about effectivitability the government-an, that we've been that's about the people that's about that's the

this ishensisian, if you're the same thing, if direct presidential election, it's then, it's already, uh, the other than, the other, screening,

that's not as well as well as as far as far as programmatic. At that, I said, there's, there, there's, the book of room more,

the other than the other than other than we're not only we're seeing, the number of the the world, coalition of the government, coalition that's who are in the government,

and also who's in the parliament, that will be the effectivity the land of the government that, it's not only in the part of the

in a while in the same but it can't be done it's all so if it's a So if the people's just two, three parties like the SB in 2004, after he can't do you can't be built

GOLCAR, from the first not, even we've seen with with just, the chalon that were competes, then, to come into the government. Artin' if concern is to build the government that's effective, did support by parliament, that's not even argument that's about the result

with the result that big, but at the time then, it's done the process of the people, it's been built. Pasta the people, press, the policy of the government, and that's the fact that, that's the fact that. So, if two-doumina, it's not that it can't, before the people and after the emilu,

why not we've given the president more than the more than the other than the other than the moreoverty people who are more than more than what? Because what's going to be, we're going to be able to, it's not to be it to be a lot, if we're not having a calum of president-tungal. And it's beenmunkinked,

president-el-kata-cosonged, that's the law-undas-und-pem-vilu. we can't if we can't, if the elite politic, with, with, uh, what, uh, with the coalition of the government, and that's just to just want to be a lot and one just as far as, uh, party opposition, the Democrats and PKS,

they can't even have one president, though. Yeah. Because we, we're then, we're batasi with presidential threshold. So, with the thinking of the conditions, with this, with more condombeck, I'd like to put the room

the President's President's Sheldresuit, because that's presidential threshold must be hushed. And pox, in fact, it, the law and the law of our law, the law, as far, 6A, is the president, by party political, or the party political, the person of the people,

so it's clear, if there's part of the political, the people, it can be chalun-can. That's also, that, that, that, that's, that's more, that's more, for parties, part of the other, who then,

then, then, then, and, the president-and-alternatant. That, I think, in the situation in Indonesia's we're here, we're here. This is that's interesting,

and what I'm here is phenomena where the young people not too too with topic like this. Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's right.

Is it that it's a manifestation of their genuinenuhan with the path process democratization or even more than or even shirkat or with other things more than more than more than more than

more than, or more than to be, this, this, which is more can more than what can't be more, but we're not not really, there's, there's idea

of the end-undra-and-a-and-a-pment of the amelan-pand-a-unders but, but by the UNDUACR, but it's being people who are put a lot of people, so that diduitopraasi, people don't look how capacity, but, what's not even, it's not interesting.

In other, we see how we look at the room of our own our public our public our, our people, we're fulling with many things of information or creativity instant that's adjudicc, you know, hadir through what, what, or is, or is, or that's just-as-a-pac-a-pac-a-pac-a-haping, but not-sid-a-notes-haping people,

more engaged, more, abys-wapotment, with the media, which, which, even if we're in a way, to some of some of that, if we're up from the political, yeah,

it's more than, it'd be manvathed for, but not yet, but noticic the problem actually, so it's the timeanguanting how we're being around the world social media that's different,

talkeran, instan, hiburran, and on the other side, be front with politics we're in jimuked and, uh, full with things that,

which, which, which, not meanjankinginging things, uh, things that's thencephs thencephabot our generation

young people, to be hard as I'm in a lot of people who have had been in-garek, who have been thinking of, that's about, t'tutus'a-game, and some of the other acara-acar-poscas or podcast or YouTuber who also have...

...mung-asu-asu-a-cour-crupsi-a-cour-crupsi-a-a-cruci-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-lououououououououou and other than I hope that I can't do this, because this is a challenge that's not ringan. To back to the law of the law enforcement, how to protect, mafia, mafia, and the public, mafay, that's not much to do, to do,

dis-sealican. I'm now, advocation of a a person a lot of November because of Bacchok after, uh,

made up, after one of the particular, illegal mining. Searine, with Batubara, that's highergainsts that's increased,

it's, it's, there's, panbankan, perububst of lawan. I'm, every day, I'm taking ma'a

from the Kalmantananelat, how they're howan-a-a-a-a-lawing corporations, there's a good, there with a way, again, there with other than with the same way, and pre-manism, mucle,

but when we're in front of with the penambhanging that's about in the same bolong, because if it's about al-albara, it's al-albara, there's al-a-the-the-the-the-sha-the-the-clihurt

who, that's when we're going to be able to to the apparel the apparel the apparel the lawyacques also iniqued the penangeloan illegal that. Now, this is the same one of the corbannes is al-marhum Jurkani, advocate that we're very much as a bigot, I'mgap as a guy, bachop and mingal, and it's not only only the same thing. This is an advocate.

Some of the same time there were a burroup, and also debacobaccoed by the problem of baton-bathar. There's a workawain that's about alihan lawan, also, criminalized, and men's in prison. Indications also,

there's an idea of punduania, because in the penjara not sterile, and so that. Now, things like that, this is at a time in a car,

and I try to to give them to give them the people of the people, the generations of the young people, the time of the people, not, not as much as much as if we talk about

content content TikTok or Instagram and and other and that's all, we're just to find a way to create to create that can bring up to our generation young young people. So, it's amazing, it's time of the area,

I'm in the way of the law of the law. Rasa, Rasa, or Rasa, or RASA, this is important, in context we're democryation,

or we'll do democratization to the front. And, maybe, this is many points that by the Anka-O-Denie, but I'm going to one-pac-one-one

one, to be the media of the media, social media. I'm a bit I'm not only in Indonesia, not only in Indonesia, Indonesia is not unique, if I'm in front of me,

mainstream media, it's more focused to make click advertising revenue, yeah, right? They, if I'm not, I'm not, with

principles, principles, principles of what's important for 50 to 100 years to the past social media, how much people who are people who are people who are in the same person, democrys, it's just mis-synonim-can or enjambacaned democracy that with amplification algorithm. Yeah, right?

How much algorithm that is in media social, that's amplification narrations that's more borgas, and it's more the more than it's more than be able to beauchampus, and narrations narrations that bigiacusana, it's

quite amplification because they're more than in silent majority who's not being able to mowong. Yeah, right? And that, if, if, if I'm notarious absentee of the adela, anter narasies that

can't with comarhan, perpecachean, perpecachean, percerrae, with narrations narrations that this I'm not see that there's regulatory, or

or the rank of technology who want to imbankan umang — situation, condition that's not inbonged

with democracy. Because if we're going to be democracies, narrations that's not being imbonging with narrations which isableness. But the reality, with what I said, sensationalization, festivalization, and narrations narrations that's not okay, like, and then amplification,

that, if, in myrude I, not yamble. with the importance of our to make up democratization to the different. Yeah. So it's just if we're not not memastika there's a number of narration

that's bad as a narrative that's going to beck or a sense of the kind of, the kind of, yeah. How, Danny? Yeah, if,

if, if, to be because of media, about more to the same-and-reaching, and, and, and, and other than that, and, there's more

more pass to make sure. But if you're about the law and the media this, it's, the problem

the thing is important. And, the thing, certainly, then, so, not, not,

not, duduk. Because, from the process legislations, then there's got from the penitings of business that's not-sehat. So, even if the abatassan

the abatasance of thepimilician, whether or whether what's related television, if, if, in Australia, there's been there, there's, there. How many, the summa, so then, then, the room,

with the public, not then then-of-couac-couac-couac-coucertain or monopolistic. If we're... Yeah, if we're bed-dhawned our own media, or even the social media, we can see,

actually, the people are not being that, and it affiliated, actually, with the pentingan of political, or even have part of political,

So that's the system competition is not because, because democracy is actually there's competition. Election is competition, like that. The factoring of the world of the media, the media, which then, again, be warnail by duitocracy, this is, I think I think not I hadiric of the adilies,

the adeline of the adeline media, the adeline, the same that's that the festival or celebration also, project project,

people, people, when when when I'm going to Pilkade, come to me, they're going at this, we're jammed men.

We've got to make a lot. I said, oh no, I don't. I don't need to win with any other than any other try to make any other project to make any other than any other through social media. Artin' not there, I said, for my campaign that

only two. Negative campaign and positive campaign. Positive campaign, campaign, negative campaign, need to make surentment electability lawan-shae. But this is kind of way

can't show you guys black campaign, fitna, not. It's not allowed, and that I'm going. But this is what I said, there's a lot of, there's no way,

there's etiquette, our power, in the time we're when we're talking competition in the bidang people, competition in the world

the media our people. Again, again, again, again, again, again, because we're all the work of the public our own-in-bago-in, as project-project, as a win-est-o-crasy,

and that's what I'm going to be. That's the same, I think I, I'm a example of, what, yeah, which, you know-one-in-jutor Indonesia. How much there's one cut-requatan economy that has Bupati,

has a goberner, as a democracy, if it's a good, okay. But if it's done with the way, using the money to buy party, using the money to buy the people, then from there, , from resources,

resources, from, from the resources, you know, you're not, and to help and the people, this is not good governance, that's not good governance. That's also, it's not the effect of the media. When I was talking about Jurkani, not there's one media in Kalimantan Salatan that's been made because it's been co-opaties

with the power of the economy that's great, from the tambang batubara, from the power, from the powers, and, and, and, and, and, and, And it's also the way of the media also but it's not even people who's about people who bachog after making sure to make sure

to make upvocation of the matter time illegal. I'm looking that's just a lot of spectrum of our society, media we're, actually also included as one of the

the power of our power that has much more than people who have tried on the other aceracarer which are mutu and beaubot, but, but usually, rating is redact. Yeah, right. We'll look, that rame, rating, rating is the acer-acera that's like that. That, actually, from the education,

not too high. Yeah, which is a lot of conspiracy, controversy, and clarifications. Yeah, right? Yeah, precisely. And there are acer-acara-acara that's good, and then,

not just as well as the of the power, it's gone. If in the time order-baru, if in the time order bar, we know that can leaven the owners, It's from the istana, or if it's if it's just, it's just enough. Owners can be, it's just to be gangue,

and the people are going to be it. This, I mean, I think, many that we have to, we're saying to beaerce- from the regulation, especially in the bidehub. I want a little, more, more than the topic of democracy.

But I'm going to Deng Shopping, the Pimpinan Tyeongkoy, which is just in in 78, that in the Tidato of his two-and-jama-jama, he was ironically, using the word democracy, that, if not a while, 33 times. And that is

where he is paracarsay process democratization talenta to be mongonged reformation in Tjongk, reformation, reformation, yeah, right? Politic, not too reformation, but more important is economy, and it's to becki. Now, Tyeongkok has been the economy the two in the world.

Yeah, right? And that, if, if I'm not really, I'm not really with what he's doing democratization talenta. Essensiness is, how a person a manipin, it's be an important to beelringing the with system merit, not system patronization.

Yeah, right? Now, this, if I'm in a lot of paradox. Because, Tiongok, that's the most thing is as aughtocracy, that's in democratization talenta with the meritocracy that's great, where, in which, in a lot of democracy in the world,

it's more than a system patronase, not system meritocracy. So, the pencealenta in the the secretar the people, it's more based upon patroness, not by the meritocracy. If I'm not even if it's a discount for the value of democracy to the different.

Because we can't even make living living the way of meritocracy, more kenthaled with patronasse, it's a discount to our value proposition our Now, this is, this is a canal educative, how we can't make up the young, people of our people

our more to more than tommy, contrasts of meritocracy and patroness, contrasts in autocracy and paradox that's in autocracy and paradox that's that's actually in democracy to be more to take ownership

in the perpolitica to the for the right of the right? Yeah. How about, Dan? Yeah. Commentation in-kart, for Kyeongkok, even though, now President's even

even in the same can be sure he could, he can't live, Congresses'n't. There are two, if not, the people who are not, the other, the idea to make the imperpanang

mass joban, this, that's done through through process in a process of procedural, democratic. If we're in our case, and that's solid, the support of the policy of the government can't be true, even though, even if it's not solid,

solid amat, because I still want to have any other than chalonged up or have chosen that in different. In Africa, there is certainism. So, the negara, of Africa, with a new period, and some of the United, and some of the result,

in Cyeongkok, I said, there's upay and been made upheld, and it's making making up the job and it can be so much, so much the situation in there. Now, I've spoken that democracy

that, of the part of the pillar is meritocracy. That's the reason that the periodic and regular. regular, routine. Because there's it's the process selects of talenta.

Now, be better than monarchy that'sarkey, what we're going to beaithing, we're going to beaupublic, monarchy with democracy, can it. How much democracy

has more more more than selection capacity, selecti intellectuality, is the system of the monarchy based on the under the turbanusiness, which is a certain, of humanuciaan,

have a room that's same to becompetition, we can't even be held it as a-as-kally a... a person who want to be be carried in the politics, because the child this can't be, can't be able to be able to be like to be but but through process consistation,

melancholyte, melancho, which was the election in fact, in fact, just and fair, and as well. Now,

what we're seeing in, in many systems what, the system, uh, the, this is then

Again, a bit discounted, because because of the elements of infrastructure, the infrastructure, democracy, in party politic, in the government, in the head of the era, how the selection talenta, this is not going on, one side, because there's discount to have, not because because of the ability,

intellectuality and capacity, but because of the kerabotan, on the other, because there's a big of the power of the power and then, it's more because I'm being,

the important, I'm still and to be as much capacity of the people of the people who are the repot, now, if you're repot, in the public, tundit, by the system democracy, mannighingingan,

there's selection, and to have the people who are the same thing. Now, process this, from now, is now, it's been contaminated. So, if we're going to be the same time, now, there's a song in Fajar. Yeah.

Hello, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Check release the new from Future Narrator's Merchandise Collection and dook-trues mission to find ideas of the great-narrator and narrators karen and the link of the mesanananed in description. Now back to the show.

So, this, Danny, point I'm not I'm uniliacan, but I just true just through just on context autocracy that exists in Tioncok, they're to be able to make membankan meritocracy. And that Deng Shopping, I'm not-pudely. You want to put-ponaghanka-korn-korned

my, or the other of the other-pinkir-jalan, you will you will be able to test, you can be a wally-kota. You can be in the direction BWM. Now, just true, contrast from that in in the context of democracy, that just who is selects, you're going to because

you use patronization. Yeah, right? That is that, if that's justru, that's for the autocracy, and melemahed argument for existency democracy that's in many of the countries now. Now, this, how to we're reconstructing or reshape, so that this is very important to answer

because democracy is just about 200 and years? I see, I'm going to look at the democracy, that's the competition that's already. At the same shopping, making a time for talent, he can, be able to compete. You can't have been the best talent that's the best

that's the war competition, actually, that's the way of the bea-bebasan. So, the democracy is there. Right. Democatization talent. So, so if the democracy, so that democracy, justro-unctuble the world of the United States, or is it the under the curation that's going toinkir-competition in the

industry, this is a competitor in the world of society. This, same as yet, not as a-joling with spirit democracy that So it's So it's And the arturans Ouran Let's put The Presidential

Trishold It's Again, we're We're back We're talking In a context this,

presidential threshold it to be medulla That's That's That's I'm

And I'm done and done on the Because we talk about democracy that has made a lot of the larger than the larger, then the President's true is a problem. I think that's a matter.

I'm not, I'm the essence of this discourse is, how structure of whatever we can't we can't democratization talenta. That's if, if I think, the way that's the most structural, for the importance of the people and to be able to move. And, and, Dany, how to, how much, so,

how to the topic and the other people are more to be participating and how to them can be participations, so they can be able to be talenta, that more democratization. But if we look now, I'm sorry,

talenta talent that there is, like, it's, with a lot of democracy. Yeah, right? And it's instant hadir through, what, what, the populism, populism, benjitra-sensationalization,

festivalization, and, and, it's just about different, things that instant, be brought up as far as, virul-can,

so, he's been as well, and it's curbitant, and so, so, it's just, setting that's that that's that's where that's that's work

that's we're making we're using we're doing we're getting some of the system we're can't

be bigig who's who who's ago nankul who who who's who who who's who

who's who chagot who gom that's that's got that's about that's about abidig

to be bidig to mongong the people people can't not who who

likes-palonged-like-a-tick-tok or in Instagram. Yeah. Yeah, right. That's, if it's like, how we've got to be able to be able to be based on likes in social media. Okay. Danny, we've got over a lot about democracy. And,

there's still there's other that we're about we have to behast from the cissic humane, what's about in Indonesia that's the trend, the end, a year, a year. Yeah, now,

can, about the of the medallant pambylur 2004, issue about the impan of the people, and what,

What I've got to ask? about the same about the Uprolera, yeah, that's very much in 2002 this, because there's no, no, no, PILCAQA, Jakarta. Yeah, that's about people who are in general, now, it's about people who are still in front-a-law, people are the same-and-and-sahed.

And, yeah, the law-combe, not, what, yeah, not as a parolima, that's on how much the carer-upy, be done on railing, it's.

Now, the law more, just-lo-ac-ac-ac-agenda-politic, and that's because of, many messal, at least, in process legislation our own policies our ICAN, in the Perlemen of the law of the KPK, even on the Lawsciptak

KERC, even in the Lawscibly, that's all can't be a problem in the process of the law law enforcement of the law under the what? How can be elaboration?

ICN is about As a good idea, political, of the other than that's a lot of the other of the other than in the other people also, then, then, to make a bigottylaping that to make make a lot of the

government, with the economy, maybe, also, capacity Jakarta, and, but, but, again, the So on the same we had to put-the-the-con-just-can

is how good-governance in the plan-tunctuance is delircution or not. Artiness, process participation public, transparency, not then be a project that corruptive. Hal such a much, right? I gave a example. or if you've been the people,

or whether or not the Upr. the part of the area, the important, there's not a political money, the important, there's wap, mean,

the IKN as one idea, that, from the cacemata-hook, can do not be done to make in the Bucota Negaa, and if you're then,

if the thinking political, the economy, and the aitish the government's, that's about the problem with the problem, when we're being seen, if we're talking, when we're talking about the United States,

because it's just the time of the President Jochowie that's just a very time, can, very fast. So if if, if it's coming acuc to the parameters that made by the time of the Actuals'Undan the work-cit-cuitary participation, not-partisipation that's been a matter, the UNDUUndi-LICR,

more minimed-Legypacisting public-ruang-ruang-discucusing public to discusses the Rangu-UKota-Negara can't be, actually. There's meaningful participation. Now, so, the insati-the-sus,

which, of the truth, the truth, that's not, be verifications, that's what's what's kind of, project that, things like that's such and then

engague and then be, even, mersack. If, even the idea about ICN

it's really, it's really the way, because the process perjoling that's not,

good governance the, participation public, transparency, transparency, and, the,

then, actually, and, question mark, And then, when when people people about the people of the termination, one of the top of the topis which is one that's one that

came to help the project Ibu-cota-Negra, that if president is ganty can be it can be it's not be able to be this. This, this, it's, because, if the things of the decision that is done with correct, with the process with governance, then it's of a lot of alternative.

It's a lot of the economy. Momentum, now, in the time in the middle of corona, also, has become issue for people, right, whether or the economy now, to move up to move to the country and that's worth a big amount, that's not too much commentar, because of the area that I'm suhawasay. From the system, I can't be much commentar,

but from the economy, it's hard to be hard at this which, which is where, the room fiscal we're like to be retent. Yeah, right? After two years' we've got to beaweathered and, of the perimen pach

and the room fiscal, we're too, to funder the in the development that, not small-sized scale-haping. It's very big. But yeah, we're doing the best of everything

and, to be it going to becko to beckon that, I think, that's what I'm that's going to if. If you're going

with the position or job about, until 2004, this, how much, this is the endanguant, this is, if it, if it's not a small, in the level of the city, capital, and provisies, right?

Right. The idea, can, be rank out of the impelentack-can the people of the era. So, if it's rent-or-or-en-en, it's perdebatant-pant-pani-pand-minus.

But, Then we're not we're not we're not we're We're uphaping the same thing that's not I'm not making sure that's it's not because of the problemasolagherna, that's just to sell-belied-buy-suareraned If that's not dis-lesaicay-khae, want to be able to be able to get-hurted can't handi-enang-enang-jorn-jorn

or jojurran to give up to give the publican and the way of the same thing, that's the right, or what this, serenact or not serenact the land of the area, the problem is,

how much to make, um, what, practice, practice electoral corruption, can, actually,

that's been but it's been putusk that we want, we want, the people, the people, the power, the President and the President,

that's reticentac. because of the retentacan, there's a masa-masa that's been dis-synchron-one-sall-satuncathed. One of the serentaccapped in 2004, but there prioritization, where the head of the the penjabat-in-jabat-Jakata,

in Augusta, two-tahsand in 2002, two-taheuxed, will be issued with the governor. So if it's again, if you're doing with the other than the other than the other people, the people who were the people,

selection talent, can't be that. But this has been come from, opposition active, TNI active, one of the journalist senior men ask them to me, can't, I'm making, can I say, check the undang of the people of the area, check the law of TNI, check the UNDGT&I,

check the UNDGPORI, because I was not hapal, but the logicaum is, apical, is there a larangue or proi-active to be able to be able to? And, with the way, then, larangent is, uh, it's, uh,

it's all in pastel-asal, in the law and PORI, it's not demuncincting, TNI-Pore-Active to be a manjabat-de-Ara. One, so, this isu about, how, then,

talenta, it's, then, undang, we have to be able to be able to beaumnsic that, more than we can't even, to be able to beaumption of the same-as-it-as-just-its. In other, there's a question of our situation, because the system policy we're like this,

the penguins of the part of the strategy of the menager of the 2004. Because a person-de-de-a-a-ra, even though he has resources to give uprocrassies, in the direction of the other than, and sootusiness, to support the people of the people of the power of political

or party political, or even the president, right. This is the problem. So, this is the idea of the first of all that, if you're rentaken, the the Ureentaken, the U-the-rength, the U-Sanederaa-it-that-res-belled, and the process of the U-Santhoucourt, the part of the people-inthead-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-llouou. to make up to make sure that's in the more efficient can.

But because of the process that didn't be done back, and then we'll end up and then we're going to not serentuck again. So, at the same we've made up to the system that we don't make make up to make back, from, from, from, or not-lank,

the root-masalang not we're tautic-and-as-a-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-tut-taskan. that, I mean, I'm in the system of our system of our system of our system, like to move our own, and then-sue-sue-sue-sle-sle-sle-sle-sle-all. This is... ...inaric, because we're just-and-a-bis-a-bisan, in 2008, to let's-dry, from the two-funxian. Intin-in-itin-cate-acetan-a-a-parrat-a-manan-political national.

Of course, with the time 50-57, which is done experiment with guided democracy, where the peran TNI or aparad of the Aparadox can't be t-addaka or be curangy. But if PELT-an, in 250-300-tit-antar-2020-22-24-24-24-24-24, this is that's in the power of the from abat of the amazepaicty of this, that's about about the propolitical in Indonesia

to, yeah, niscay, kental again with apparatus of the amannan. Now, I'm going to be in context that's more large, which, where, perpoliticant in Indonesia, it's kental with, apical society, aparat keammanan, and Islam.

I'm going to seeimbangan between these, there are elements elements other too, it's important to be able to bejave, to be able to be in front. How about, panang, Deni? This is a sociology,

the he'smal politic that's more fast-injave, but, but, if I can't, if I can't be able to run, Rembuck, at the When in the When we have the

Newerreformation, then we have three three of the men's-siesua that, in the one is the Bermin KKN, the two is

back the Teani to Barak, and the third is, the other is the problem reformation, I think I think I'm so I'mperbaïy system of the

now, in the a while, it's then, in the a while reformation, it's been done, the perforation corruption, and the PECA, the PICOR, and it's been on effective. Baskan KPK our

if we hitonged in the time 2001, until, last year'suri's in 2001, 20-a-old-old-a-old, and it's the longed in the history in thehcourn't-corruption in Indonesia, because we have a company anti-corruption,

there's what-one, there's in one, two-ta-year-old, but... KAPIC-in, it's in the long. Why? Because he's likeer in the first reformation, that's in the land he,

control public-n-n-and-st-stero-and-stst, and so-asnation, but it's the Umbang-K after the Umbudsman-K-K-K-K-in-lawed-lawed-lawed-a-cq-cac-cac-cac-cac-cac-cac-cac-cac-custs. So, how do you know the defuncary abry? Now, how much with defunuchy abry? Yeah, defuncy abridin-na, and we'll-al, also, also, also, also, and we'll look-it-laken, yeah,

the positions of the publicic not then-in-y, either active, or who's been put in pension. But, now, we're looking at work on the apparel who are given to policean, so the functioning now, from TNI to PORI to PORI, even, of people can say,

this, can, haqasasin, but the Undang-Und-UndtNI and PORI The lawy-oerty-active to dolech in the government-jabotan political. That's clear, in the UNDGUKINI, in the UNDGURI our, in the UNDGURI we're. Now, if then,

Tried, how we're going to handle issues of the issue of the abat of the amannan, come back to the other, the selection talent, the selection talent at

So, we'lletack-possess our own-hmmed-law-law-law-law-law-law-and-a-old-could-could-cithing – now, this, not. This, right, it's not. This, then, then, by-asurcation, onusquette, based on the other than the process of the election, which is the eland democracy, so I'm seeing.

So I'm looking, we're not sure, we're not often, try to be simpangue. At a moment, when there's been, policy active, the menabat governor, Jobarat,

it's, can, the law of the lawy, but there are ponderance of ponderance. Now, if we have this, the subpoorreactive, because it's not. Because it's just that's under the law of legislation our,

and if we're just melangar, it's hard, but, yeah, because we're in in a way of the waycana for psalalant of the amul who, that's just to be languor so,

don't come. Undang-undasar to be languor and be taken the same. I'm, I'm, I'm just-terang I'm not more good, but we're not pessimistic. Okay.

Because you're not pessimist, we're always pessimist, we're optimistic, we're going to talk about in the Mesa Dapen. I'm going to take to 2004-5. How, this, the gambarant of the end, in the way, from the way of the other from what, that's the most of the same thing that's about it. I'm more than more than

in the time of optimism I still have been of ouratirance, we can't we pessimist, we can't we we can't gethielan

harapan, but optimism hadir, but asak in reality and because I It'satimisie, up get a supervisorship,

dup in the governmenta, while only has until wakil-mentry, duduked before in corporation, even at level of the commissarium-lars-ut-ut-ut-ut-UtKUSMahsutem, work in LSM, also, I've been a, I've been the head of G&KUPSI, KUKUPSI, KUPSI, KUESN,

monitoring. So, level level, bureaucracies, is over, corporations, suburbation, sub-sciety, should, civil society, I see, yeah, the lawm we are still with, what,

what, what, tantangans, tantan of judicial corruption. So, this, we've been we can be reshick can,

so long, then there's upay, to make sure of the ophthalmongum, we're notherap. We'll be able to be adjudicant. And I, too, I'm just around, I'm optimistic, but realistic. If we're not necessarily in practice judicial corruption

if this, if there's if there's people in the time in 70-hmm that's corrupt, with making uphacken of Hong Kong, with the support of the government that, the end up

it's done. And, hadar the good governance in Hong Kong, and also, also, police who more more embawing in front of the society. Now, that's it means there's one

there's a company that's there's a groupaguer that and that's a lot and the support of political will that's from the people and the people and all the elite politic

to make an upy, upy, upy, ineguang of the law. If now, we, if we're about the law, it's a bitrepotan. The office,

this, I'm not I'm not an integrity, Indiana Center for Government and the United States, that's because we have value that's always to be jagged when we're doing advocation, advocacy, that's integrity, that's not that we can't buy.

So we're not going to neglect practices, protet, proffat, soap, and a-genish that. But, at the same we're when we're having cases with cases, especially pidana, then we'll get up with reality that's hard for the legality that's to give up to be a lot of

we have to be a lot of the kind of people that's corruptive such that. Now, if in rentang of time that there's up to be in 2004-5, there's upay-upy-upy-serious to to have practice mafia-hooks, mafia-peradiland-law, yeah, the lawcum not-tegagued, There's not there's a quatheum,

that we've got to be able to beaustiaan human, and foreign-negary also not going to maximal, the seateringheasperateeran rakia also can problematic. So, I'm a man-hook, there will be a lot of pencata economy, but for us, if this is not done, with very, with serious, practical practice of corruption

and the lawyadic by the UxNUM to policeian and sootusen, forget it, with the adelaan and cheshaireda. 2004, it's still 23 years, not a little a little to do make a transformation and revolution

of our penaggulment of our we can't we'll see we'll look at the people whocum that's not ideal so optimism I am,

there's been in the rentang time in this we can't again, we can't again, people who can be able to

other, the Unda, KPK, who know we can't even the company legislative that who are the rules that can

can't permutasal of judicial corruption, or even the people in level national or local, and also, I don't want to lookcum by the perjual, belican. We've got

there are some people in the world who are very visioner, and, and also and also, and also the sameotensy, and also

have the data-tarick, to make talenta-talentah. Yeah, right? One of the ones, maybe, is Likwaniy, yeah, right? In-hmm, in the years, he only beckhally with integrity, visy,

competency, and he He's about maybe five people, which one of the people, beckhally with attributes that same, like they have been in the amount of it. And, he'll just goelringing you with five people. And there's a system multi-level, for several decades,

which is at the last of the government of his, he could nelfon, mangled, one of the tribuner or civil servants who are very quality with attributes, attributes, and positive, or that's from the competency, because he had been worked in the

multinational, and in school in school that great and got to gety with gaij with gaiy and great again. What about what's about about HIV, like, about Islam,

about al-Qaeda, about quantitative easing, on the peneguacan he gets the best answer. Now, point is Point is, is that's right, not even if there's not.

There's like that. Yeah, right? And that, if, I'm in-the-selling point, like, selling point for the kids muddha, or, or just out of the campus,

that, he, or a chaiwe or chow-o-pun, have a casepot to be a manpimping like that. And I'm sure if there If you're like that's like that's like that's like that's like to be like selectsit talenta that's more systematic and systemic, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And then, I'm going to, if I'm going to with anyone, I, I, sometimes I'm just that this is actually, audience of my, this, the, the, the, this is not the other than Ija-gobrol. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, yeah, and, yeah,

and, and, yeah, and, the canal, and Zed. And, like, yeah, ownership-taking is a good, like, on issues that's the fact-pansangue, about it's a problem, iklim, or, is inclusion of the money,

or, is it penegu-a-hooking, I don't know, how much, like they're like that's about issues like that. Al-hmudan. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good.

That's good. Because I have been doing data, for confirmation that. I, I've, since I'm trying throughout, I've got to worry the generation of our young because of the publicic and full of the curanguang,

they're not to be able to keep in fact. But if they're then sadder with care of empathy, and maybe it's not mrs. Because if there's a lot of this not an upay to make amalgamil,

then what's what's happening, you know, the people, perforayal period, and sethutely, which is in the last time that's one of the solution, so much,

so, so, I'm going to, I'm sure, there, there, other, other,

other, other, other, people, people who are, people who are people who people who are

people who are people who, people who, if, If you know, if it's not even if you know what's not too-like, this is the other than, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, it's just one, that's right-h-hawatera, that's what I'm not-bun-bunerun-bun-hand-hanna.

But if it's not-be-nation-again-a-regn't-a-old, yeah, at a warerformation we see there's a haraping, but then, now, regime-warna-characterianism, and more than more than we're going to bea, borgas, then again, to the world of reformation, smegovacrisis,

termed, the people are people who are coming up as up as the generations of the generation that can bring Indonesia to a way, especially for the law, I'm not sure that,

I'm not there, if I'm going to, if I'm going to integrity, we can't integrity, we can't, we can, we upyaking, for the law firm as we also

we also to become aso-isoe public, to the world of the education, and give virus virus anti-judicial corruption. We can't make a lot of different acer-acera-acera, which would-mustraxie talent of the teachers of faculties of the law. Finaleas-in-anals-in-lis-nailis-nais-n-nagust.

and the powering the powering the also I'm also, I'm looking, I'm also, there's somemagnat, too. Now, muddhawn, this maybe is, what, um, bibbub, that hasn't been come up until this, because our public we're desksaki

with, uh, celebration, and the genusiness that, and, so-judice that, that's about the other than through the programs idealists, how in-game this, we can be able to

give room to the bibbit to come up and at the time it, and at the time, the ruse duitocracy that's more to be the art of in politics and the denagascar of our own.

It's not even though it's about it's not in front of the same, in front of course I'm, I think I'm a lot of shuderdustle-as-allied to look at Indonesia that's more good. But as a lot of the same we hear, don't ever let's make sense to Indonesia, and we have to be auraura, because this is the place we live and the place we, inshullo-law, will bequebummican,

from the land, in the land of our air, Indonesia. In the a while 2000-a-20-a-old-torn-a-old than 20-a-old-a-lal-a-dhundred, GDP with Tiansk, but the better-in-papitania-in-a-capitania Tiansi-a-cult. So, jade-n't-a-pacit-a-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-tac-old. It's up 10-llap. We've been a lot-lap.

And that's acuant, and don't look, GDP per capita we're just $4,100,000. And Singapore, it's already $60,000. So if I'm a kid in Indonesia, I'm going to be imple, how, so that's not only we're taking over the middle-income trap, but we can't be able to level 10-20,000 dollars. per capita.

To get to get to achieve that, not even without peneguagation the optimal. I'm not too much. I'm not too soon. And, and, I'm going to, I'm sorry,

that there's many many canals canals that can't make democratization idea, it's mampet. Now, it's our task our, to, how about how much about

so that's about democratization information is the same with democratization idyll. Yeah. Yeah. Don't even we're going to bustle busser, BUSERP, make viral content content

that's not pedidip. So endgame and endgame and game and game that are still sadir, this, merbut the room, the public, because the education is that,

that's actually will can't make up-fake politics, to make uprogy, economy, and, the end of the end up to make upykeying Indonesia. Intinia, how we can't make sure, for multimbinge. Yeah, right.

Wow, okay. Thank you very, though, Danny. Same, same, same, without, there's manpowerment. Amen, inshallah, inshally. Pasty, yeah? Yeah. Okay.

always. Same as well as Salam to the people areda thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Salamalamalakum, Waramatulah, Braga. Malikum, Salam, Maramatulah, you,

Pran. Teman, that's Deni Indraiana from Integrity. Thank you. Thank you. This is NG.