Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Dino Patti Djalal: Obat Permusuhan Bangsa-Bangsa

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

Jadi bagian dari komunitas Endgame: https://endgame.id/signin ----------------------- Sejarah diplomasi Indonesia di mata diplomat ulung, pakar kebijakan luar negeri, dan penulis—Dino Patti Djalal. Dalam percakapn ini, Founder and Chairman of Foreign Policy Community of Indonesia (FPCI) tersebut juga membahas dinamika konflik Rusia-Ukraina, serta relevansi Asia Tenggara dalam geopolitik dunia. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #DinoPattiDjalal ----------------------- Pahami Episode Ini Lebih Baik: https://sgpp.me/eps161notes ----------------------- Berminat menjadi pemimpin visioner berikutnya? Hubungi SGPP Indonesia di: [e-mail] https://admissions.sgpp.ac.id https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: International Guests Wandering Scientists The Take Kunjungi dan subscribe: https://youtube.com/@SGPPIndonesia https://youtube.com/@VisinemaPictures

Now, there that's the concept, how much more than the data the way, the way of the economy. So we're stuck, like this. The liberal international order. Apalagi, the U.S. lead. Now, U.S. is not leading again.

But, but the new one has no, no, there's no. To be a lot of the world not all, but the concept of you, what, but the concept of you? Well, there's, until now. Hello, Hello, T'an,

I'm here we're in Dino Patti Jalal sabbat tariff of my and also be known as bigplomat Jalanan and also Tondon the diplomat that's the most in Indonesia.

Bro, Dino, thank you very. Thank you very. Thank you. Thank you. We can't. We can't. We can't. We can't.

We're seeing. We're seeing. We're going to be it. because of the problem with people, because of them, um, around millennial and zillenial. Bro, I want to ask, you, too, lagir in the, when it was called Yugoslavia.

And you, many, what, uh, inalaming perjalan life in the world. Uh,

tell, de, how? So, you, to be able to putusance to make a diplomat. Well, if you're,

maybe, kind of brainwash because I'm a lot of a lot of a lot of a job and a lot of people who's can't profusies this next year. But it's, but

it's the time life in various in Yugoslavia, a country that's not there that's un-hurted peeping-keping that made me make, it's making sadar that

look, the deolaten and resatuan national that can't be take for granted. So, So I'm going to airport. Where's the last year? In the country that's not there.

But from there, I'm going to be in Africa, to Guinea. And then, I think of Singapore, and then America, and Canada. At that I can't see perbandinginginging. Negara, the world, and what that makes Indonesia need to learn, but what makes Indonesia unique in the world international. And I also, I think, though, bro.

Yeah, we get the best ideas with mengawing can panangans, panangans and the best ideas from outside. You understand this very well. From the process fusion, we get made up to the best experience, the best ideas, and perhaps you got the best character. Okay.

Bokab is one of one oflomat and very contributely, in many things, one of the other things, what's the way, how we're definisiccant with a negatessen with the country

that's-tangue from the city maritime. Um, is that one episode that's making you, you know, I guess I must goutin'clock. Or before that, that's a

that's one episode, because I'm from the same of my life I'm having my wife I'm going to Kenya to New York to make sure that's been making sure the penitre the United States and that's also inspiration for law of the sea. And that's also inspiration for me

because Indonesia can't move up this is this, this is even though, but when the way of the people, the way of Indonesia, is very much if we're going to to beacar,

we're going to be able to national. Laud Jawa isi and Arafura not the belief we're. Now, and by the declaration Jua'anda, we've said, all the water in

the other polo of our people are, the military national. Same like we have have the world, the world that's just the land the alaubas

by the abysan, by America, by English, by Japan, all the country maritime. But what's what what is

the idea, we're making sure that the way, and now, the land, loud, it's just

the world, and it's very, we're up we're uphukuk international, and it's maybe,

and it's a one of the diplomacy that's the most of democracy, the same, yeah. Wormiaiaia.

That's right-huh. And then. You know what about? Curitka-in-day? Tell me, that's, you're being there. There's people who want to be senior, pilot,

accountant, economic, and everything. That's when, ter crystallization? So, I, I, I,

went, in Washington, D.C., in K.B.R., can't be a man, to be able to, did you, K.

Then And then, they're upkid so much de So it's been Goudang, right Janitor, right? And one day,

when day, uh, when it wasing gudang, to namein book, Bukh, the book of benderer, Revolution. I'm still high school,

like that. Now, every day, book that I'm with, with the question of, uh,

uh, the, uh, boss my, did, the, I'm back every day,

right. Right. Right. So, I'm, oh, what a beautiful what, what, what's...

...aregitation that's very big, that's... And from there, I'm already, I'm already, that's how it began. But, the political and diplomacy, international relations, not international, can't... ...taling with a sub-dharan,

and I think, and I think... ...and I've got to PhD... ...and-gadgett the London School of Economics, but... ...there... ...that... ...the ...that... ...the ...their-their-their-all-plice... Okay.

So, then you know, who's the people? Aya, Tentu. Tadena, I was going to New York. Uh,

uh, I'm going to be playing tennis, right? And alhambulillah, one day, I said, you know,

you suck at Tennis. Right? You're not can be So that's a great-you-you-haired-you-your-destinie is a diplomacy. And, you know, it's right. There are people who are honest, because my friend's-old-old-lawed-you-law, because of a man-tanness, actually.

Come-mary-tack-tack-tack-tack-luck-luck-luck-n-luniness. And, yeah, but, can, line-duniness, that, and, and, I'm so happy I'm so happy I'm so happy to be india-kinded, and then-de-de-tean-tean-de-tean-de-de-in-s, and then-deplomat. And, And I'm I'm also pension, I'm just,

I'm fulfilled, a lot more fulfilled, as diplomat and as a lot of debt and bigot, if you're, if you know, Dino Patu Jalal, in the history diplomacy Indonesia,

to talk of people diplomat, who's who that's really, that's, that's, that, to give us

the country and in the world, Ashim Jalalal. Yeah, which is, al-alataz. Because I've been work with Alia Latas and Muhtar Khomejah Maja also.

Why? Because the best things we have done, from the foreign policy and world peace, the other one of the conflict in Cambodia. Yeah. Conflict Cambodia, it's, maybe, now, people have taken for granted,

because, wow, the, the country's already, it, but, there, genocida, two-jutor, two-jutor-jutor, They're done.

Right. And, right? And, there's going to be it because there's tionk, there's the main and the other, but we're going to and with susapayah al-al-tas

can't people who aretikai, not only to make uptomakan, but, and, and, he can't make the conflict that,

while, you know what, this, this is the big of the United States, Right. Right. Right.

I'm, because I'm not all right, because I'm not even I'm, I quit as a big of the process of the unioningan. And, and that medamaic can, that's

ala-alatas. Franchise, more, diemna, right? And, if we're to Cambodia, all of allahas,

pahlawan that mena-a-can conflict that the part of So there's tradition of excellence, diplomatic excellence, which, I mean, I think, I think, because I see, because I see now,

many emphasis on the transactional diplomacy, yeah, can, the point of the assesale d'investation, got, this, it's more than that. Diplomacy is, uh, is, uh, is, uh, is, uh, far more than dimensiony that, that'sational, that's now. Yeah.

That, it's characteristic that, And then, you, that'sal from accumulation, or maybe because he can't even if he can't even though, irrespective of accumulation. Now, this is alia latas. The point is, the,

partying for aspirant, who, who's to be a diplomat, uh, that's, that's how, so, so that a lot of us, that's all the world, by the world, whenever,

first, he's been, he's been made personal quality that's all right. So, he's like, as a person diplomat,

not only just hard, articulative, but he can't touch the heart people, and he

has been quality of the Moktukusumat Maja, Mahas, Hasim Jal, Marti, too,

Hassan, Uraud, and, and, so, not only can't argumentation lawan, but he can make make suretank

to be a lot of the other to-dochewan. That, I think, to, I think, that's the way that's the most important, but it's there, get, there's idealism to be a diplomat that.

So, there are people who do do you know, why, can't be able to Paris, can't have money, not pay for the big, got to dollar, life is not much more than the way.

That's not why you should join diplomacy. We're going to join diplomacy. Because diplomacy is a set and allat that's most effective to make surestaking the problem, the world, whether that's conflict, perang, and resigning, and other than the other than,

and again, and also, and also, to help the people in the world in the same, you know, can'tangang, money, technology, and all that can be able to make sense more than the past. So, there is idealismania.

What is called, Bungarno, it's internationalism also. Yeah, right? So, if if we're not just, we can't doorkmaneck, we can't doormation with good, if all of them can't be nationalism. There's been internationalism.

It's the smanglet to look to look at the world, oh, we're doing more to make more, more than, and other than, and that's the other than the other than you. Idealism and internationalism, Indonesia, that you would rate him as the all-time diplomat in Indonesia in the history.

Yeah, right? even one that's one that's, um, and he's haropkaed to be able to be only one manu Indonesia. Right, can aliyalatas that that was that. And he who said, no, I'm not, I'm,

I'm the ambisiness that was that. What is the recipe for we can produce multiples of alialatas to de-upan? Carderisati has We have a meritocracy in the diplomat, that's a great,

who is that is abat, and make up and upangut with a good so, so there are system recruitment and system talent spotting that also, but also has also institutional memory

in, in the art So much, yeah, and the same-as-sum-sum-laws, must be able to be able to system. I mean, one of the time,

Timur-Timur, right? Timur-Timur, it's... Taddy, can we talk the best things that we did, Cambodia, yeah? But, but, in the Timur-Timur-it-Ur, we're, we're not... In-arty, we're not-tankan-cigian-PB, with Portugal, a setapakata, we can't make referendum, and we'll jamming,

it's just amazement. But, then, it's bad. It's a good result. Chaos. And, the whole that's most amelucan in career I, know what, you know what, to New York. And, it's been able to rapad in PBB with people who'd be able to be able to beckxitah, because five, staff BBB

and debunker in the Atamua by militia Timor Timurwa, how? How do you? Maloomia, it's, it's,

it's, people, who are, people to make thing to think of chippa about something to be done

in the country, that, but what? Until now, there's one lesson's learn. What to do and what not to do,

like the Kambu, Kham Daghri, not there, Dibn't Gah, Pauri, not there, D'NI, no other, Bapanas, not there. But that's full

with lessons learned of what not to do. Not only for Indonesia, but also for the world international, yeah. What we did right, we did, we did,

we did, we did, not right, right? and we're right, right? And we're still right? And many things like, like, oh, do so-perandina, right? Which, right? Yeah, this year old, too,

in Timor, Timor. Okay, we should avoid this and should do that instead. But, but same as far as there's institutional memory on the whole that. And I can be able to America, yeah. I think, yeah.

I think of Pentagon. Tagon, if you go there, there, there, there three floor. Setiap dinding, there's a perang. Yeah, can? Setia perang, there's what? There's lessons learned, yeah. Wow. Yeah, right.

And in West Point, where, matter, to be plajari, this is how we can't make, as little possible, and how we can't. So, I mean, in fact, I think, I think I'm still still in the umbaga, instancy we do.

What to do and what not to do, that? Back to the sosok alia Latas. He is therelibat not when, when you, when you, he's,

as a man, um, the, uh, the, um, and what he did, and what he did do,

um, to abate peristue, the, that's about it's about it's about it, when gendings of chitapal. Yeah, that's... Yeah, that's a person who's

because of a diplomat, to, you know, can't make-as or flexibility, to be making can't do you. Yeah. What we can't

be able to do? This is good question. So, I think, there's one moment, yeah, uh, name our big, yeah,

al-as, has been made Although, I'm too, I'm too chawed-a-tangue, I'm sorry. And it's not honoringed-a-tangue, but it's not a while. And kaccharasan and penguins, right? I think, I'm going to, ma'amah, ma'am. And then, he'll you say, to the wartawan? And then there's nothing I can say

that makes them make sure of the way. So there's nothing he can say. So he's just, he's just, he's just, he's just, the way that's just, it's been merriac. Because if you're still demiccant parah, can't even be defend again. So, the best medicine, to know what? Now, this is the aspect inspirative.

The best medicine is, now, the best medicine is now, the hubungan Indonesia, Timor Lestay, it's been a hubbunned Touladon for the two the other than the other than

musuhan, yeah, after referendum, can, same as well talk about. But, but now,

the community and Tim Molesi may be one of the best relationships in Asia Tengara. And in

context the international, one of one, the one two banks that two banks that d'a

conto-kot-khan can be subhapat back. I've got to look at India, Pakistan. Right, Pakistan, psalm from India. Right. And, from now, can, still.

That's right. And, many examples of life, where, there are pemisaharan, and then they don't be, what, namely, saling, me-mafkan, we've, we've, benchiness, dendam, Kuzmat the two-blahs-back,

to, is this. So, I mean, I think that's a bit, that's a bit of inspirational. Yeah. I want to switch, but maybe the last, what's the other than what is to be able to beaplomat that's bifurancasana, yeah. Apakas,

that being in denial, it's not worth it. This ispirean, aspiran, like, that's on to be diplomat. That's at a certain, at the episode of certain, it doesn't pay to be in denial. Yeah, right? Yeah.

by Alas. Yeah, that seems like a really hard-sought quality. Yeah. Yeah. To, to gaw, that's not, to go. And to agree to disagree. To make to disagree. Yeah, yeah, been right.

Yeah, right. I think... Because ego kicks in. Bener. Yeah. Yeah. Quality task that's the most important in the person a lot of the bestre, in fact I'm not sure,

I'm not sure. So, so as a diplomat, who's been there are in the world, but also, you know, position in the realm, he has beenpawasan or intuition and judgment

that's the rest of, more, more, more, more solid. And that, that, that's that's the person

we're the people that's the we've got to tell the boss what he wants to hear right, while upon, tuntu, that in the public system of the system of being, so much, yeah, yeah, pa, he's great, pa, wow, baysa, you're the best,

That's not Nile our Nile our position we're in here Klee Mawakka to be able to Abbaugh can't have happened Bapa Bapa Bhae was de jegal and risk our value our data

If we're just like We're crazy We lose our value Yeah, right now Mankan we're We were very what, very valued because we're very valued,

because we're very good, you know, right? There's judgment that good and also, there's a compampoant to make sure that up, what, uh,

you know, y'all, I'm gonna be a lot I'm gonna be mara'in. Yes, because, and, I'm sorry in, you, mara'in. Yes, because we were in the business

of telling what they must hear. Yes. What they want to hear. Yes. And it's, And that's what's right? Yeah.

And to the people, who we serve. We serve at the pleasure of the boss and the people. But, you know, bro, you've, too, clinging the world, like it's Timor Timur is one one episode that's very important, what other,

in the world for you, for the development as a diplomat. Geography, where other? Or situation whatever. If you're the most the most of the United

because we're the most because we can not be per-peran in the Timur-Tenna, not be perperan in Europe or Africa and Asia-Timur. But in Asia-Tengara we're the most relevant because

the other, because of the national leader. And Asia-Tengara, the area, where we can't can be asia-sletan or Pacific and land, sogain.

So, I think I'm nother, where we're the way we're most constructive, construction, a construction, which is a good for Asia-Tengara, and, also, mud-mudhazant, to make the rivalities geopolitic,

which is more than more, but more than the same isaicant. But centrality ASEAN, how is it being before beforem? Is it enough to be able to be able to be it? Because of one of the one of the kisans

that we'llamie, about Asia Tengar or ASEAN, that is, it's about with the Ucurae, that's $3.5 trillion, Ucuraean, upuroposia that's not Kurok, but not know how much,

the world, the, people more than the Upherson, Korea-Slatan, geography whatever that's the scale of economy, scale of populatines, is far more than we're the better than we. It's a bit more sinister, right? Yeah, yeah. And, erroneous. Now, this, apache this is more because we're,

or more because of the two two things? If we're talking about asian, centrality, centralitas asian. That's the intoniality. That's the, you know, like, gina, yeah, that'saq,

unisoviet, America, yeah, and the other, so they can't be in Vietnam, makecau in Cambodia, and, like, and, like, sogain, that's again, And in the other than the

that'sa'am, that's the way, even there's one of the people that. So, so that's the centralities asian, what is, now we're who's being mandor? And, what, pergolakan or percatur in the kawasan, we're the driver,

not the other, not the other, so this one of the conditions strategist that we have to always to be I think I, I'm not, critic, can't?

One of the lemahannation to make sure Indonesia, it's a lotu, ber geopolitic, in eight years in.

Padahal, what, eight years, ironically, the, geopolitic, that's been political,

that's the economy that's long, before you, but, but, but, but,

but, but, with the Ukraine, that's the world it's now geopolitical being a punk five

that's now, if Asian more relevant now, now, then Asian will make, okay,

we're going to be concept what, and then also, Indonesia, and also we're, we can't

get a centralit because it's, I'mgap entang, yeah. This is one of the AOIPIAPI, Asian Outlook on the Pacific. That's the agamation that's the most

now. But, but there are quat, Australia, India, Japan, America, the United. Now, they're making quat. But they make content for Indo-Pacific that's more concrete from what hasaip from what?

Right? That's what? Yeah, it'sa. Asian has delivered to have concept strategist that's lawyriced and it's the way.

And, it's the way for Asian to be relevant. So, so, so, so, so,

so, centrality, centrality, has, to bejana with Asian ummming can perubot

makehensens deliverables that's concrete for the competition more there's more than there, there, there There's, there, there's... There's quite...

...that there's other again, here, there are India, Emirate, America, and Israel. Yeah. There are quat line, like, and... There are also, yeah. There arecus also, yeah. But, khenatena, that ASEAN, too,

not dilatkan in discursus, in context, anguplath, or ocus. It's not engagued. to other than the or like you know like that agnostic

just like that, that's just like that. Or maybe because not know perception of the warang awam just like kind of

capacity to mean centralities what centralities our centralities yeah yeah yeah

yeah that's now that it's that's so that so Asian hasian

has been out from comfort zone This is how much more competitive? Now, uh, now, uh, the other quat with Asian, there's not a good, even with each,

masing, and there's a good, with Auguste, the President Jokoy said, okay, Asian has to be able and to look at Alcus, and also quite as a member. I think that's a certain reality that's a very important and strategic

which is, which is quite, which is quite, uh, for the key, okay, it's all the same thing, but the bottom line is, is, not,

can't even make, can't make sure and trust building. And unfortunately, that's not happening. Right? And the mechanism

this is not not a new the new-operative and reduction of mistrust tarolah until Kuat with Tyeongok. Padahal, inund, but...

if the Indopensitinof the endopacific minimal, minimal, minimal, there's a more positive onquant, and Tionk. Because Tihon Korn, because Tiyonk,

now, now, this, this, to be given upinging in the in the area. I've got to do a lot of it. This is a good thing that's about

with the abeyasement to beaq. It's about Asia-Pacific. From the side of, economy just, it's just, that,

that, were part of the middle of the country in Asia-Pacific, to beck. Cholubutans. So it's chagely that this is hegemonic,

not only the other East Asia, but also, in South East Asia. And, is it will be calibration the Pendefinition core strategic interests America's Greek,

which, which, only hasheter in the Western Hemisphere, Europe, Timur-Tenau, and North East Asia. This, kind of it has been a lot of course

because hegemony Tioncok that's under the country, andgara, Asia-Tegra now. If it's not-a-cad-cath, that if it's-cad-cad

can recalibration definis the core strategic interests to make make up asia-tankarer in the cranks geopolitic their that's important, is not-positif

or net-negative for us, to usia-Tegarah. First, the America now, America now, it's been better than

America that's Ligate, even 20 years ago, yeah, the power of the Kavana not like the other, and relative perkourang, d'bting with the power of the region. Why, can't, I said, we said,

we said, we said, engagement of economy of the Hongkok, from the way, from the same, especially the aganguangue, that's quite, and it's quite. And it's translate into political and diplomatic influence. investment, America,

I'm not one, but the focus is still in Singapore, investations of America, yeah, can't be able to make and more than more than ayesha dengara, if from the tourist, Tjongok is number two, now, number one, still Malaysia, far away atas,

and from the rest of America, and from the side of the other than, the other than, more than, more than, more than, more than, from America-sohn. So, America has been abhorred

the problem and the problem is, what, the problem is, there's a perception so, okay, have a concept, Obama, pivot, pivot,

and we appreciate pivot, rebalance the, the penningingan America in the area, it's, the focus on

the Asia, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, because there's a president and there's president of Trump,

the pre-hatian, is at a seaman, not even, yeah, maybe, it's come again, and then he'surro of non-cabinet

to dundook in the Cursy America, the U.S. and other, the end thing, and the cusy Dota-Besar America for ASEAN,

also, just, just, this, this, So, so that's not reliable, right? Tiencourt, tiancok, more, this,

more active in that, because, um, the bigacan more long-term, more consistent, and, sometimes, more, the more,

so, so, ...this in the Pantasia Tengar hasa Tanger has also India and even Japan, for more active. Why? Because of the healthist

in Asia Tengarra is very much on concept balance. So. So. So, so there's one country that's been hegemon, yeah, like we said.

So, so much, So much-hmmingimbangy, and in casehimbangu-it-is-a-scentralities Asi-Naghan, the negara-Nagra, can be mandor in this this. So, that's we're just that we're taking, but we'll look, in America, there's a pemil again. C-buck, if you're trying, if you're not,

can't amborado again, what-naman, what-naman, what-naman, the un-pacific. But if I'm going to look at, how we can't do, we can't be interact with, if you're going to, like, or middle power,

or non-middle power, we need to, bullet on what we want to be what we're going to be about, that, uh,

the end-uguinging-in-of-us, we're put to model. Yeah, or not, model technology, model social, model whatever, that's what is what is for us, for that's all, want that's from from from from from from from from from from, now, this.

Now, this, this, in data data in the negara, the other, which, I'm still sub-optimal. You're in the most of the model. Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Now, this, I always use matrix or metric FDI. FDI that's that's disproportionately higher, than what's in the United States of the United States. In fact that absolute, 105 million dollars to Singapore, in Indonesia, $30 million. In fact, per capita, in Singapore,

$19,000, in Indonesia, Philippines, just $100 dollars. and that, I think I'm in terms of how we're going to be able to be playing. Yeah, right? With all the world.

Yeah. And, I'meropaned can't the penning our own to be meddick and whatever I agree. First, to be fair to the government, the new is that's institutional investors. Now, now, is more more than more than more than in Indonesia.

And this is a certain a good, yeah, because if institutional investors, can quality of the investors' the other investors, one. But, but the two, The other two, that's the marketer we're not quite. Yeah,

we'll see. We're looking at, who are people in Sri Lanka dialogue, the Raysina, in the Munis Security Conference, the World Economic Forum, who can be sure again

panang in Indonesia, narration Indonesia. Right, can, you're very. Yeah, right? Yeah, can? I, did, you're active very much

to where you were a minority yeah, sorry, depending on, now, this, who's who's who's being, who's being, who's being able to make making it? Maybe there's one, two, yeah, but, but not many, that's, depending on India,

miscellar, in banding with Singapore, to be banding with Korea, yeah, right? So, the, and this, this, and this, many of you complain, too, I can't be able in some of the other people, like, like, complain,

if they're inundang, it's just around datang. Yeah. And if you're inundang, not did, blouse the endangangangang. Right? To borrow-borda-dot-dut-a-tac-git-gaping, or how much. Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm not. So, I mean, I'm not sure that, we're notar-a-nour-in-Nor-Nusia in the circuit international.

This, this, you know, agotta-gota cabinet, yeah, so, yeah, again, like, yeah, to be active in the world. You brought up Shangri-la, I'm like that. A lot of the other than a mantreh from a manterian from Indonesia. Would you comment on what is it? Oh, this is...

Mr. Mahmoh. ...Mahannan about the situation of Ukraine. Resolusiness how, and, and, and, Is that is that that's the right, in order to be able to be it's more than the unsur-unur-lain too? Yeah, so I mean, when I'm going to give you guys, when Parabu, made up there. What I'm saying, it's just a good.

I'm not going to usya, this is Ukraine, and there's conflict to go, and there's conflict to get into people, so what to do? So, it's true. So there's got genuhratine-sengatered, demilitarized zone,

and then there referendum and other, and then, and the restagreng. So, it's right. It's not done in context conflict resolution. So, if Ukraine, like this isa, and thena'a,

but, but but the kind of the same, the talk about men who are Ukraine and also, from Russia, not the,

what, not the, not, so, so with that, the usulan it, there,

there, oxygen, right? But, probably not there are some of the other elements that can't be used to put up to the other,

the element for the government for the gunchatan and from from that at corridor, that that it was

not that it's because now the appetite is to push back ...amukle-upusia. So, it's not the time for gunjata-sengata, because the emphasis is to roll back and push-back. Passu-back.

Maybe when there's a situation, where there's no longer-one in the lapangang, and the two-blah-pihap want to find a solution or what, that's one day can't happen but until now the military situation

nampagnesed enough to achieve it but if it's already the genuhanism military that stagnation or what, it's like to from there

there maybe there can be impetus politic for the two people perunding now from there there can be idea what, what, but what's the

but what's the right? But the line of their, what's the bottom line, they are, the bottom line, they are, and in chaploc Russia, it's that has been takenal by Russia, has come back to Ukraine. And termasuk, Crimea.

So, that's bottom line from Ukraine, and it's notpani, they're not not even more than that. Why, like we just like we're just around if we're just around, Bali, disheapleuk a country like that way, what we want,

what, um, something, where Bali, it's up, the United States, and, and, and, and,

and, so, so, so we look, but, but the kuneingingia, , will, there,

there's a, there, where, uh, in- military, Putin, we have to try, okay, we have to try solution policy.

Yeah. But this, this, we're seeing really resiliency in the two behalf. This is a big, yeah, right?

Yeah. It's just to just embucked consenambungan, yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah. What,

that's the other one, or, back, we're, maybe, we're thinking, maybe it's like it's not backal the same thing, but now it's hard for making

the end up to end upto-de-de-cate. And what most dismayanked is, yeah, of the two-blah-pihak who, who's been a corbund, and we're all, that, who, who, who, that's not-mecahack-per-masalan or the problem-in-a-n-mast-a-n-law-in-a-law. Now, what, in-roth,

that's what we can't raba-raba-a-a-a-a-the-cac-the-back , to be solyt the solytick, gett, yeah uh, first, I'm also

who who are that NATO not peru expansion to up Ukraine yeah,

yeah, can, uh, even, the American Seripat can be much

be a lot of that, uh, not peru that, yeah. But, But still, with the

the opinion that Ukraine doesn't not deserve to be invaded by Russia like this. And, I'm, I'm, see,

this is a case hegemony and even neo-imperialism. In other way, Russia, if, if,

if, Russia, if to look at a lot of Europe, he looked, there's a lot of where he said, the country this has been curtailed on Moscow. Yeah, right? The country,

in fact, economic, beckyblat, and decuasai by Moscow. Now, he'selensky came, this,

this, can, it's, it's, not, Zelenskyi, not even though, but he's got to the idea of other, more than more than other than, Europe, and also NATO, and, and,

and, and, like, sogain. So, so, this is pertentangangang of two concepts, that is one, is that we're notheromone whether or notheria underwentry Russia as a certain kind of kensiayaan

or we're to be able to make sure he's going to be it. If we're talking about, if we're talking about. If I'm talking about, if I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be it. Dara'arraiser,

in other than I mean, not there's nobashan, everyone else in advancees of Russia. More than, if I'm going to be able to be able to beaqa, I'm going to beaqq, I'm going to beaq, not there intervention. Evening Europe is my own-in-law, and there protection from NATO and other and the other and sogain.

Right. Right. When you get a lot of the other, not interventional political, in NATO, that's. So, not going to interventional politic, so, but for Ukraine, that's the choice between two. Apaches? Right?

So, right? So, right? Yeah, well, that's better than tributes-ribut, the way, maybe intervention just, you know, in the other Russia,

but there are also, not, we're going to be, the more than democracy, more to better, more to Europe, more to the better, and it's the other than to be it. I've got to be able to

with some of the other of the first that, that, that, that's make that NATO or

or America, it's not the, um, um, participat, in NATO, but if you know, if you're even

Ukraineanahs, to join NATO, we also have to be a factor or alasan to be a against and it's not not as much

for Russia as mena-mina men who's men to runnang to the panang of But if Alamirsheimer, he's going to beckin can thesis or hypothesis that Putin, that's just to be it's just to make up to make sense

that Ukraine is a buffer state, neutral. They don't believe in any kind of to take to anywhere, not to Russia or to NATO. But he's just, with full of the I'm not because of the other than Ukraine. Now, I'm concerned about, I'm concerned about, the one of the two of those two sorts of. If you, so that's, so that's, so if, yeah,

so, is, if it's, uh, so if Ukraine, I'm going to, the bottom Russia, or, to, it's, it's,

the putusan, uh, Ukraine as a government So we have to take assumption that. Maybe we're not like he who's not even though, but if it's

even a putusan their, we have to accept it. And also, if argumentation Mars Summer, means Swedea and Finlandia also, don't. And they're same as much have been,

what, the number of the and they're about with the other than what? Because what? Because of what? Because of what? Now,

if Russia also have had to have had for intervention in Sweden and Finlandia and then too, so, so, I think,

I, the intinion to on what it, and And if, if I see, if the next game, if it's not to, that's more realistic.

Yeah. Yeah. And, it's in process, is Ukraine, but, but most of Europe, but it's still because, what, the EU-Eoropa, said, we want you to go, but the war has to be righter So if Russia not if Ukraine must Ukraine

to Europe, to camp barrette, they want, want, to not want, have to be able to end up. Because, as long as long as the war through the war, Ukraine cannot be able to be able to be able to be able to make sure in condition of the war. Mugent, maybe, is, this, this,

this is going to move to hot peace? Like, the illustratisical, some of the other than some of the other than I think we are already there right now. For the first time, the barat compag, one,

two, um, ongaran perthan that will be in the negar the country NATO, even there that's more than,

there's more than. And, uh, the three, this can to be permanent. if it's like, if it's like, if you're going to be able to Ukraine, this will be a lot more than,

this is a person, the first thing, and the Uyghanshya. And imbasin also to Tiyongok, because Tiansk will look, whatever that mayemakkan Barat or maynita perhatian barat, it will be a manfart

for me, because, because, now, now, Keth, and Russia, so, so, so, and it's, I think, I'm not because of the wrongingpour yeah, even when, when we've got into winter olympics,

you boycott, and, and, for the country, asia, face, what, yeah, muka, that, right, factor that's more important from in diplomacy of the UNABARAT, so they're, so they're making, so, go, I'm doing in-in-tress,

Gumpur, beaumper, it's just to beaed-lawed. Right. So, there's hardened rivalry that's more than the war in the Reignan. You, if you're not being, you can, yeah, we're, yeah, we're at the part of five,

yeah, we're, we're, to, manal, the tatan of the as, many, maybe, bipolar.

that's a unipolar. I've been to say that's unipolar, lucidia, multilateralization is robust, but as much as shifting since maybe 15-15-tallon later, to be multilateral, it's more difficult we're making

multilateralization. Because revisionismanisman is that's the kind of India, like Russia, like China, like Brazil, like Africa-Selaten. To some extent, Indonesia, Nigeria and everything. This is that it's going to be it. I'm not know, whether this is a yearnard or decade.

Now, for aspirant-asperan diplomat, yeah, can, this is interesting, because this is more a lot more than tangan to diplomatisasical the world for the importance

to we can back to multilateralization my question is so long as this more multipolar and this is the same this

is hard for it's still there's there has a lot of for the company multilateral that is more perperin

like what we've got to what's about. For whatever, issue security, like, economy, like, social, like, buddha, like, whatever. First, the effect of the war Ukraine this, multilateral,

it's now, macet, mandat. UNESCO, WHO, yeah, Taiwan, P.B., and, and,

and, like, and, and, like, division, perpechaheran, perplexed, and conflict, that's very in the longahedralism.

So, the power, that's more, the middle powers, Indonesia, India, Japan, Australia,

and other, and other, and, the other than, Africa, South, Turkey, that, that,

that, that, that, the, now, the two, there, There's there's there's there gejalares,

where in the room multilateralism that's there's reformation, there's a new, like, like, Tyeongok can make,

uh, making, uh, bank's and, yeah, and it can be breaks, too, now,

more active, yeah, and, and, so again, so there, soarererer, and,

they're, They said, yeah, well, if not if you're not even if we're not even even if we're not quite quite, it a lot, We can't even hashaired, yeah, we've got to make it's a part of a percumulant. So, so the lemahanness, what is it?

The lemahannhannes, the one order that's built by America after the war in the second year, what is called liberal international order, there's been a lot more than there. People who's, wow, there's beener, has to beaicue. That's the U.S.S. A country barat paham.

Nogarer, notherat also know. Massalangue, when it's not a matter of barat, okay, you want it's what? How many of them purvey it? Now, that's not there's a jobat. Doologne, there's a jobat. New international economic order.

And, jelas, what, intuiness? Trade has more, this, be able to transfer, then, then, one percent, clear, so. Now, now, there's, who's the,

who's been the concept, how much, the way, the way, the way, economy. So, we're stuck, like,

like this, like this, the liberal international order, and, because, the U.S. late.

Now, U.S. was not leading again, but, but, but, but, who has the concept.

Toosuke, we're going to be. But the concept of you, but the concept of you? It's still. And now, the way to move, the future,

that's called, the name's global south. Yeah, the country non-barat, yeah, in the south that's been that's being

India, now. As far, they're both, they're saying, we're going to be a people people

sub-south. Even, they're going, they're going to be a G20, okay, we're going to be mobilization pananguecko'clock and solidarity global south. And that's the systemic he's doing. Tijuana, too. Tijuana, it's not the way to be a memberpian global south,

but, I'm not as success or not as a-keleton India. Indonesia We've been, we've got We've got to bea-20 and we've got to becky-ment the country bebeamang but still the ambition our own

one of the people in global society padalal we're going to be able to be. We've got to be non-block we're pendidiness, the confrancy, Asia, Africa also.

But rhetoric, that Indonesia will be one of or the people who was still still heard of the moment, you know, you'll, you'll look, not that, to the other than,

for five to ten years to the time, we're more, more better than different than the other other than the other other than that's that

not gampangangue even a bit dysfunctional. One month. Yeah, right. in the people of the people, and I'm back back to the we're back to how we can't encourage the men of young, aspirant, aspirant, who, who, to be career as diplomat,

to be in the world this from the cedronerungan the under the bilateralization, the cedronerunerunation of lullerilatrolization. Because I, you, yeah, It's really big lateralization. It's more than multilateralization. Because I can piggyback on the people who's on

negate for me, that's in the front of my but if I'm about about one just and I know that he is more productive, he's more than more than I, it's more exposed, and weakness our. We can't leverage off others for purposes of negotiating with who's in front of us.

Right. Yeah, now, this is the matter of multilateral, perubaniclims, you can, right, you can, have,

always take part in it. Because, tarolah, Indonesia, menranging emissy 40%, but in Mexico naik,

40%, can't make sense, so, right. So, there, there are all, which,

such, multilateral, have to do but but there's regional, because multilateral not much if you're trying,

because WTO can mandat but, but who's know, the ASEAN economic community and and as well as a baguiness, it's and so much. And also, and also, and again,

and also, can be lateral be, if, from the investations, yeah, just, yeah, now the Emirate is the the most active, right? Or, the negra-negare-negare-ter-tertentoo.

So for different problems, there are different levels of solutions, whether multilateral, regional, or bilateral. I just wrote a meccalach, It's about Paradox sustainability that I'm going to beware

that's quite in space sustainability That's really narrasiness But it's only Kedgeran or mengggema

at maybe not more than 15 to 20% from the population Dunya and the other the other than than this is the way around

narration, or narration because for you can mahamey narrative, you, you know, to, you can't be thinking as a modern. And if we're

definisicant modernization, it's I'm going to electrification. Because if you're not electric, you can't do you can't modernization, right? Now, India,

and Indonesia, the electrification is just 1,000 to 1,000 to 300 kilowatt hour. To get electrification, 5,000 to 6,000 kilowatt hour per capita. Tengangu-waktun, it's 100-tawn. Sedangan-in-in-50, just 27-tawn.

Apollahia, Nigeria, electrification is 155 kilowatt hour. To make 7,000 kilo-hour-per-capita, Nigeria, too, per capita, with the same-day-day-day-day-year. Indonesia, 3,000 megawatt, India, 19-m-wag-watt. From there, I'm going to look at two narrations that's very irreconcilable.

Now, this I'm redepentedance or concept, yeah, to be reconciliazziation two narrations, this we have to be able to beckonelioration, on the moda because, full-tunuch, it's hard to solosicicum

to make sure. You want to make people Nigeria like solar panel but if there subsidization with the realang fiscal

is hard. It's hard. Right, yeah. Right, so, so, so, first,

we have to be rank from a assumption or a We've got a lot of the world. Because if we miss overshoot, not zero world, we're going to live in the world three degrees Celsius,

and it's everyone that can be a carban. Amel Salim said, this is a lot of the world as a lot. As a big example, if the sunsuit down to 2% just, it's 99% trumbed carang, the world will be matty. Now, Indonesia is a country maritime, can you imagine? we live in

in the country, we're up, mattoe, it's not too, it's also can't be able and food security and that's

baguaginess. So, we're, we're the maincalfe not zero world muddha muddha

in the part in this. But you're very right, that's, how do we get there? Yeah, can, yeah,

the country majew, okay, we're, we're like, we're saying, we're saying, we're saying, we're going to be able to, but, come back, you know, commitment financing not out of out. Can't $100 million per year, ambissing. It's not ever, this, just to getjot. So, this is, it's, it's, it's just transition. This is aided. So if we're all right?

So if we're going to transcission to net zero world, uh, have to, uh, you know, we're going to work for example, yeah, to,

like you said, to do muck up to make uproxation, electrification and, and, and, like, so, right? Uh,

so, so, we're, we're, too, we're, we're doingization, electrification,

electrification, to beaum of the electricity, what's the right of our people, maybe 99% access, yeah. But, also, we're in a way that's as much as possible, electrification this is perjali as far as far as far as far as, as far as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, the program, yet-pahed-old, and this. where,

money-hmm, not just $20 million, $10 from the government, 10 of the swastah, if Indonesia can besie-kind-sacter-lis-kidly-kitts, and menembaugh energy ter-baruq. Apakka can be a result or not? We'll see, we'll be able to this with strategy national our. But the stake is this.

The stake is this. The stake is, if Indonesia can make-bukdican, if we've got to give $20 million, we're not only of the world, it's the first of the world. Because only two, now. In Africa South, they're getting $8 million, then in Indonesia, $20 million.

And people still see, if Indonesia, is or not. We're do-a-can, of course, but just transition is, it's, it's, um, what, um, to be, to be a newmagnan,

to make sure, to make sure. I'm hopeful, but I'm realistic too. Yeah, right? Because, if I'm not being

jettp, the granularity it's, it's not. It's related to technology what. And I,

I, I, too, I'm not director of the marketer nuclear, but why nuclear to not pern't, not even in the same in fact that's statistic to be puttongueckon.

Fatalities is a far more more than fossil. Only 3,000 to 4,000 nawa per year. And fossil is 7 to 8,000. If I'm going to with a hei-ahli, he'shaughtan, it's

can't be part-jolocal from tuberculosis, with the other, yeah, right? That's, if I'm in myroup, I think, to be in a conversation, so we're gonna' this technology

what, it's to be in the and modality, if I'm for me, to help from the planet from acceleration of the equipment, trillion-d-dollar that's-dol-dolars that's-you-buttook-can. But if we're

if we're up to level that if we're at Greta Thunberg, that follower Instagramm's just 20-a-juta. But Kali Jenner, 300 million. The one, activist climate change, which one is, the one, the one, it's, yeah, right? Now, that, if, if,

I mean, from Pulsa, that's in the world-in-lawful. Now, this, you can, in FPCI, this, is very passionate in the narrative urbaniclim. You'll look,

not, see, that's the activism this, will bring up political ownership taking? Because what

I'm making I kind of I'm a lot of the same If I'm not in people who are people in the world, the people of themahman their climate change, I want to want to be a lot. Not too dull, yeah.

Now, this is, we're going to be, carder of the other, and, and, succour, actually, activisman it, can be in context political ownership taking, so that, the rank of regulations also be able to be be it's not even

target we're yeah, yeah, yeah, because if I'm Rekin'ekin is active in climate change because, because staff

FPCA is the other, I'm the most yeah, and the two, I'm thinking a a,

I'm like, so, so I'm, so one day to a quota, yeah, it was actually birth,

yeah, Australia. When that's out of apartment, that day was so hot, that's so hot, oh, do you know, the, badanudah, this, and it's hot and then I'm,

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, thinker, nought, I'm, next to be, right-salt-salt-sus, this will be every day. Every day. And, not-biscail, and, not we can't get out, jogging,

uh, can't be, you know, life will be unlivable. Right? If that's already, it's not back again, that's not just dot again, emissy in the atmosphere, so. So the best way is preventive, and the most meresakened, can, the young

we're, now, generation net zero. So, the generation, generation Z, generation Y, plus all the and babies that will be born and live in 2004-5, in 2045, in 2004-5. And they're powerful.

They're powerful. Because now, when you're going to be president, the people who are people who are menelian. So if we can make up to make up against that, you know, there's climate security, there's climate security,

the security, and you have you have you have a ham it. Right. There's a lot of the people who are the people who are not. And now, al-hmudel-lidah, the last polling, the other issue that's the most

they're, the issue of the world, the environment, so we're getting there. And the people who are people who are like malady,

yeah, plastic, and so again, so again, so young so that's now, the other than the idealisman, and I'm quite hopeful. Keep at it, man. Thank you. This is the paradox first,

that I'm going to go, that's paradox of sustainability. So, you can be able to edict the young, maybe, can't even though they're noticical,

so that's about them can't help to try solutions or resolution. The other, paradox antideocratization information in the banding democratization idue. This, that, we're all over-hap internet, to, can give access

for them to information, but to the idea, but it's not democratization, like information. And this, in piracy,

perinifest, in the xenang. Yeah, right? Because only ideas, the idea, certain,

which can't be tempels with model. Many ideas other, which maybe more changue, but not be

demple with medea, elitization is, it's like that's like that's you're going to look at the time. I'm going to look atop TV like that, we're going to watch TV like that. TikTok, right? I'm not anton TikTok.

Okay, yeah. I'm going to look at HP, I batasin 2 hours a day because I know that's cancer. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. And if you know, if we're getting look at the time jacob, TikTok and saranal like that, there's process dumbing down.

Right? So, we'll see video bits that's a minute. Tashat, this is he's going to be like that. This is all. It's sensationalism. And the room

room, a room, for the thinking that intelligent, and thoughtful, And in foreign policy, if you know, if we're something that's about, maybe you get 1,000, 2,000 hits. But if you're going to

say, sensationalist, dapet, dapet, d'2 million hits. So, this is a trend what, trend of thebondohan, that, that that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, I don't know, how it, we're just kind of stuck with the situation this. And also, uh,

peran buzzer, right? Peran buzzer, it's not, to run, to bring, and to murder. Exactly.

And I think, uh, politicians, we know, people who, people who are playing in the room, public,

you know, need this, Gid, and if I look at least what what's the time for democracy is the, the tangangu-tankan is everything, now power is everything, and this is not only in Indonesia, in other other, I see,

I'm looking at the gajala this. people, people that's people that's quite for api-aping, to make upy-a-pies, power and money become everything, both the country bebeamonged

or even a major majeu. And what is the same is, but, and, you know, is about public service. Right, money idealism, let's look at UD-FAT-5, it's more than much more, more than much more than that.

Aspect that's being number two, number three, or number four. Because everyone isibook imperbutting power at any cost for the sake of power. To find a kukasaan, memuja kikwasaan, medewa can kikovacan

only to get kakakakakana that. And, more than that, the power and money politics, now is more than errat, people are people who are even more than, even more than other than, so much more than that.

I mean, I'm going to say, this is a trend that we're thinking as a lot of people. So, we're not going to be like Thailand or Myanmar, there will be a lot of Pakistan. But quality of democracy we're up to be a situation where everything is but power.

Butthal, democracy is not about that. I'm not about public service? Yeah, right to do beyond more than just about power? Power to can be able to write. Lewetting many car. Yeah. The first, coercion.

Yeah. Two, keigha. Three, the quatan bureaucracy. Four, yeah, persuasy. I, too, I'm going to look, you, too, three and four. Yeah, right. you've been bureaucracy, and you, you, too,

can't give public goods to the community with quality of the lawyman that's great-bant in context diplomacy. But you also can make sure can persuasion.

Yeah, right? Now, that, you, if you, you, you, the, you're, optimal in context

intersection of power and talent. Yeah, Now, democracy in many it, it's, it's the same-you-old

can't-cary tit-optimal between power and talenta. And democracy, not as-mata only can be definisicant

in context the predistribusian the quat-an-a-a-a-a-couatt- but that also to look from-a-lac-mata how you can redistribusically

public goods. Yeah, Public goods, if I'm like, intellect, education, education, social value, moral value, and line, line. And even, back, I'm going to look at,

Singapore, it's patut, beanguble democracy. Because, okay, like, he's critiqued for a couple decade not able to give uproar and room to position or even media, but he kind of yet can't be able

to give uprooison to media and opposition. But at the same time, they also deliver public goods. Much better than most countries around the world. Yeah. Yeah. Sto-sue, I'm sure. We've got to do...

We've got to... Congress, and the people of to remuscan VEau-Nusia in so far as far as independent, FECA that's making

from the pervasive from different from Indonesia and also from from diaspora to make what what is, what is the this is what?

This is about what what we're going to what we're going to what? They're going about in the scale of different

except two things right. We'll see if and And then the person is the same thing, one, they're saying pessimists, that rule of law,

supremacy, the human, is 100% in Indonesia. Right? Say no more. The two, they're not you're not sure

corruption, 100% will be basmi in Indonesia. So, we can get middle class big,

middle class that's great, and, and, and, and, But two of the two things, they're pessimists,

can't be in Indonesia in a year, 100 years. And that, I mean, I think I, I'm not really, we're rununked because it's a big

strategic question, is, is, like, Singapore, yeah, Singapore, can,

rule of law and corruption. It's, right? And, can, we've got I said, why, because in Singapore, because in Singapore, the lawful law

more than less, more than the same. You're sure with system. And I've got to, even, you know, I've got to say, I'm saying, arous modal to Singapore that, that, that, not be correlates with ideology, not be correlates with geography, not be correlates with, not percolation with Sumbra alam, only be correlates with

the same way you you're sure you with the system. And that's more than the lawmonging about the law. And I've even even banged can

this case in, that's important to find a consangangangance between people and the government for the

potential capital, social capital, cultural capital, economic capital, spiritual capital, whatever capital that you're seeking, Because if the people

know, batasance there's where he can ideate, he can be ideo. Yeah, right? For the kind of, the pentingan spiritual, the penituary,

the importance, the importance, the importance, the thing thing of technology, and so many. If you're hazy, on the batasance yeah,

it's hard to ideate, the right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. I'm not only two paradox, the paradox of sustainability, two paradox of ideas versus information, democratization of those. The third, this paradoxes on AI. AI is, it's be gambar-gomborin, will be utopi-a-can, dupea-can, I'ma-a-a-gopi-a-giper. because I'm looking I'm like, I'ma-a-hlead-a-hlelea-cichinginginginginging,

and redeperned technology without multidisciplinary-khan narrations, melibatken, al-a-buddhae, a high-lis-burdial, a-lis-lis-lis-linkungan and allan. So, this is to plesart us.

Yeah, right? And product-nue-n't-beckle-backal not too wits. And what's about and that's elit-elit just, that's been untinged

with the kind of that's internet is already I'm elitization I'll get AI that will

be more than diplomacy to the development. Because the crankanourn't the global. We've got we've got

that the country, the the elit-elit-it-kent at the expense of the other, or many of the other, apal-a-lac-lac-a-mode-all-le-le-le-gd-gdeged, access-mer-ke-lega-tecich-legged, this is the paradox of AI versus inequality.

I think that's real. That's melotot-bank-git-a. And this is, that, first, first, the first, right now, right? Yeah, right? Impacted from AI,

how will it change society forever? What's just, we'll be boughed society forever, but we don't exactly know how. And, you know, in America, the America, the people of the script Hollywood

had done a strike because AI, right? It's what? From, from the same, talent or skill, the one of the most of the big thing is is, I'm going to be able to. You're one of the best speech writers in the country.

Don't you feel insecure? Exactly, right? So, my God, my job is being threatened by AI, like the skill-like that. And one other than one other than I'm hader to beaure comprehensive in Belanda about name name name, re-aim. Pengunaan AI in military warfare.

That, they're in, who are they in, who don't know what? Yeah, that's what, what, is what, right? Right. Right. military military, that's like with AI, who's technology,

they can't do what's just right, in the war, that's, yeah. Semiantara, that's

being d'arban and there not who there, there's the next revolution

where, we need to think hard, this is, And I said, we don't know where it's going to bring us. What's going to be what we do. It will take the human soul from our daily life, what we do. Yeah, can?

We're malice to think. The decision, what, um, artificial, which, maybe we're saying, yeah, it's just right, whatever they want to do. Maybe if you want to do, maybe, maybe, there's a apping. Is she the best for me or not? Yeah, yeah, serakin just.

But you take the human soul away, yeah, in the way, in the way, in the way, and, I think, I think, I'm going to say, that's not too healthy, right? You can't beaerangue, institutions multilateral, that's been after the end up in the

and to the different, we've got to look at, we call that GDPR, position eropa to create with pengurankaan for the publicinginguropan protection to data, that's more

ketat from America from the other than and the other that's simply because Europea is not beneficiary from internet. Europe, I look at

only as well as software. Not software. America and Tiansk are software. Tianskoy and America is beneficiary. So, they're not want penguins from the side of the biggarten

that's strict. And I can't even be able to in context AI, who's what will be able to seepankhanking a regulation that's a cutat, or they might as well just open the whole kimonos. Yeah, right?

Yeah. Because, maybe, the kind of kind of kinaifan their. Now, this is the amount of the importance of our people to makeuant-kindlegged is a lot of the law for what I'm, what, to what I'm going to look,

I guess, there's a collectiveism in the entire of the for the importance of the to the people, to the end up in the A. I, I'm going to look, so,

the open-source to close-source, from-profit to for-profit, that's the geysal-geal-the-the-for-profit, that's the in cecer every week on profitability, you'll, you'll beckle-luckle-khanes-you-hall-can-cala-cara to get profit. That's what I agree.

I agree. Now, that, how do you teach your constituents for the importance of diplomacy or multilateralization about how like this? Yeah. Maybe the problem is a issue yet. Yeah, right? We're talking about how many people understand this?

Yeah, right? And I think it needs to be a baguian from the debate public, we know. You need to be. Yeah, yeah. So, this. I'm sure. So, I'm sorry.

I'm going to have you have a platform that can multiplication for the people of the things that, I think, important for the way that's important. That's right. Bro, we've got gomonging Timor-Timur, ASEAN, Ukraine. At last, maybe, in China, and India.

Okay. India, amel sikap to not go to not in R-SEP. We give a window. Evergreen, when-a-to-a-to-you-be-to-hame Tijuana-a-Safe. Tyeongkok,

to R-Sep. T-KKKKKKing-e-e-ne-e-Legu-Ectalization. T-Gas-Legov. How do you look at the two of the two countries? For the importance, Indonesia or Asia-Tengara. Yeah.

Well, first, as farang, as far as economy, the game is Tyeong-Kok, right? From the other than the other than a lot of dollars, the other than we're going to take four times more

from our own. We're going to be seen before. India was nowhere to be seen before, right? So we're more to the north, timbre, to the timbre than the north, where India. But now India is one of the surprising trade relations for Indonesia.

Now, that's big. That's big, even more than, even more than America's the United. We're going to be around 29, 331. So India can be the next big thing for Indonesia.

And more than it, in the way politic and geopolitic and diplomatic, India also become more more than the Pacific, especially

because of the Pacific, can't be a balancer so much America, yeah, or Japan, yeah. India also, even they're more than they've got ambition, they're making ambition to be mimpin global

South, then ambition from context quad, yeah, he has been, India, the, India, is the country that's the no, to the country best, right?

that's very good. And they also has also. And they also have been ambition in the samudra India. They're going to be mandorna, yeah, he's there. So I think India will be more important

for political energy in Indonesia. If you're from, I'm going to say from the world of India, they said, Arsep, is, can, I'm notaric it,

they said, what that? Not Indonesia, but Malaysia, but Taiwan, but China. But I'm okay. And then what? Yeah, for us, if we're making, that's making, access to the market, we're also,

we've got to get pastur in Hongok. Yeah, can? Tyeongkog, jewel, jow more than India export to Thailand. to the Hongk. So, so, to be a lot not too, not too be a lot of

people. And, also, there, there, there, competition between India and

the people, the vitality, that's, there, so, but, but,

people, of the diplomat Singapore, Balaheri, said, Kausiqqa, can,

he's, he said, Indonesia, sorry, Asian, that's promiscuous, polygamous, uh, uh,

not monogamy, yeah, right? With everyone, we're laying, asal, I'm giving the goodunctue

and value for us. So I think that's the game that we play. Bebas active now, it's not sessederhana

too, that, yeah. Bebas active that, now, uh, how we can't

how muchimaling so that's about in many people, but it's not dictaille but also can extract as much as much as from all the relationship we can. So,

so, we're just, yeah, okay, we're be able to make like that. If you're like that, is more complex and dimensioning is more more than that.

And this is maybe, maybe, it's what we need to be the diplomat, diplomat, you know, if you look, what you look at what's doing J. Shankar, uh, the situation in Ukraine, Timur-Tenna,

China, America, Europe, in a way, that's all that What do you have to be plaziring diplomats in Indonesia? Diplagary from confidence of thought and action. So India, India, too, nobody owns me. I have my own interests.

And he also said, your fight does not necessarily translate into my fight. That that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's inspirative for the diplomat Indonesia because that's that's the same

many do not in context but not always be appreciated that and that and it also to get to get

kind of we have some anti-barat There's anti-Barat, but why? Antibarat, but because of sentiment just, right? Ames, I'm not like, because they're going to be like that, diplomacy, not be like that. If we're not anti-barat, or anti-Timur, anti-Utara, or it's because we're not because we're

because there's a kind of the situation be able to beauchinging and the meaning it's been a certain, and it's more than we have to be able to be it, like with America. Doologne's been to be muso, back. I've got taken musuah, and then, and so many, so again. Then we have many of many problems with America-Sericat. But after the year 1998 and in the way we're going to be a democracy,

there's a political alignment, so. so, again, again, I'm not evening the United States of America States, and comprehensive. Intinning, we're just on, with the country.

With the same statuses. But, the intuiness, not berthousal sentiment, that's sentiment anti-barat, if, okay, public, can be able, yeah, activism, is that, but as a diplomat

has very pragmatic and very clear. This is a while and is to the penninganational or engangue the penitinan national. And we have to be able to move it. It's right, can't beaughan because we're bonfentation. But after ASEAN, we're just a deced again. Dekees'clock. Because?

Because there's not there room for sentiment. Only there's room for the humbentinging national, that's rational. Terahir. America with the Hongk in coupling, in-drewd,

you how do you, the impact to the U.S.A.T.N.S.A.T.N.S.A.T.S. I think, I think, in America, has now, we've got to look, I'm notary Mr. President, we're going to meet with the Han Hanu Kyiang Marela

in, even, even, because the Hong Kongkukh, you're still, you know, to come to come to me. No. To come to me. But Blinken, can have to be able to, right? And Blinkin would have said, what we want, it is manage competition. Bucan, trance, through, right? So, right? So it's a lot of the competition that's where there's alamines if there's a kind of a bit more than what, because of the conflict in the South Taiwan

still still, man, and in America's-Sherkate, and in America's politically, China bashing is quite, right? Both sides of the aisle. Both sides, yeah, yeah. Democrat and Republican, who are the people who look at least like to look at a lot more than people, and this not be able to make

make sure, why, America nunduk, with them, so, right. So, it's a bit tricky, maybe, that's, yeah, a bit more than, for the country, like, for Indonesia,

to be a part, especially Indonesia. Now, because Indonesia is with Beijing, Indonesia is with Washington. Peran it, the same thing is, we're not being, we're not,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not, no, more, more,

yeah. Yeah, I've been musuling to a sub-jabat, misalya, yeah. How much,

if Indonesia, I'm-undang America and Tionk to make a work-up informal, so, not there's commitment, but the jobat

that's ad hoc to rumoursing to make sure that's doing the United States and Hong Kong, same. Parolm they make recommendations and the result can't be able to be able to beware. But, but maybe that'ser because that's true of the job,

can be able to be pertimanked with way, right? Because America and Tianokokokok if Runding right, but if it's done by Indonesia and we've beenanguant and acariness informal, there's no media, why not? We've done it before.

Lachina-Slatan, who's the first time, encayered-soasana Indonesia? My dad, Professor Hasigel. So, we have a room and asset that's actually can be used to help to share can. One thing again. One thing, let's say, give.

So let's say to America, hey, we'll make, we're, we're making one project infrastructure, you're same as a personal, even if you can't, managmanying, also, there's many projects in the area.

Masa, not there's one, where America and Tionkok will be it. If it's been, and it's not hard, if there's political world, it can be a partandah that's very

in the world international that's not really, America and the Unitedhawk work together. Intonial, what, there's a way of course we're going to make risk and

show craftsmanship. Craftmanship, you know, can, in a way, to build something positive, right? And has to be it naliy. Right?

Right? And the power that's really. There's really, yeah. If you can, can't Korea-utara and Trump, yeah, and,

what's the, right? The room that is there, that's, the way. I'm going to be a dreamt. Why,

Indonesia as a democracy the third, not can't be able to beauntary between Kiyongok, which we're also in the country Asia, and America, which is a country

democracy the first of the I'm also being maybe to not more to be able to to Palestine and

Israel, Indonesia as as a Muslim that big yeah, yeah. is because we're not like people,

people like Alia Latas? I, too, look to look at Singapore, storyteller. Yeah, right? Well, even 5.5 jute. But he, he's, really, really, be don't know-be-be-be-donging to allure the world.

Yeah, right? And we're not, we're not people people like alias that's that's about, that's about, articulation narration that's relevant. Not to the key

but for the importance of the community. There's an anecdote that's really in America, there's a visa, name name, H-1B,

to professional, who's lullos from campus. Representation Tyeongkuk to, 400 to, India,

200,000, India, Korea-Slatan, 150,000, Indonesia, $8,500. I'm on ma'amaf. You know, you know, people can get to be able to be? percent of H-1B visa?

75%. Every year. People are people who are more than India, he just got 10%. The person, the people who arelux from all over campus,

just got to 3%. But, but there are 150,000. I can't get a lot of the people. This isa go getchap. Selain cognizsini is korea, you if you're going to jazirin, what name, Tjubljubljublj, Tj, Tjornik, Tjong, Japan, America, India. What, cognition, maybe we can argue

that we can be more big. But, this, this. Story-in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right? It gives me optimism. because we can't

because of the storyteller. Yeah. I don't know. That's how I see it. And that's what FPCI does. Yeah, right? You know, you're gajer public speaking and all right. Yeah.

Did it, can, try, if we're trying to get to work the world anew. not at the Congress, the Congress, in the United States, the other than the CIA. Intinion, what, I mean, there's a good, but also,

there confidence to give back and there can't, and there's, and, like, I said, I was, I was a speechwriter,

President, right? And, and, and, sorry? A great one. Oh, but,

But, not just enough enough idea that's good, we have have a good but also can't be able

to articulation. Now, this is that people who are people who want menaculkan the world.

You have to know how to sell the country. And that that's that maybe probably

be givenjad to just and maybe still can't be able to the storytelling of the Indian. Yeah.

Now, number two, in front of me, I think I'm from Singapore. Impiris, the country 5.5 jute. Diednering with the people from the world, if they're going to. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And also, um, that made them make the, so, So it's good,

articulation, but the lemahas, but the leavening, can, is the problem? So, we're both of it being be a bit of course. What about? The confidence is not. Yeah.

Now, now, so, so it's about $1.3 million. India, that's about, but he back-up. The economy is just

good, Singapore so much, so that's so that's not, with the economy that's quite good, we know,

there's credibility to talk more landang, and make take position that's more more than

management in the national. Wow. There, have other other things that you're

going to say you're I think you're the same age, maybe, right? Unfortunately or fortunately? Yes. Mudda-budhan, I'm still still but maybe the most important that I realized

28-tawn in the Pomerentah, you know, to have a quackoasana. But, apparently, I'm I'm justro can have more impact out of the other than this is

it's more than the other people, and other people, that to have authority and impact, not have to have a co-coasance formal, so, so, the men, or so, as a dirjan, and,

and we still can be can be and be dampact in the world and this that we can see in FPCI, FPCI, from policy of Indonesia. Now, from 5,10 people in 2015, we've been in 2015, we've got to be a clompok

international grassroots the best part in Indo-Pacific. In America, there's no longer than we're than we. In India, in Tijuana, there's no more than this. And we're big because of the way, because idealism, not-in-knock-mooder, and, and, muddha, and, I'm not-modan, this is that I can't say that's okay, okay, you can't be

care of anywhere, but remember, even outside government you can be work and be impact and, what name and, what, what, for, you make a lot of people, and, also, banks and the country.

I'm sure you feel the same, because the acara this, this, is something new, You've never done this before. But look, I'm talking about my wife, my wife, who's all the shows, yeah, and the kids of my own, and maybe impact our, from this, from the exposure to public,

more than when it's being the head of KPM or the Minister of PDAGANG. Yeah, right? Yeah, it's a nice thing about retirement, I guess. Keep at it, bro. Thank you. Onward and upward. Thank you, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's my abathe chalachal. Thank you. Thank you. This is end game.