Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Dr. Raymond Tjandrawinata: Pandemic, Maintaining the Innovation Momentum

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Dr. Raymond Tjandrawinata, executive director at Dexa Laboratories of Biomolecular Sciences (DLBS), talks about collective conscience, co-evolving with pathogens, and the first monoclonal antibody therapy in Indonesia—a breakthrough treatment for patients with preexisting comorbidities and elderlies. In collaboration with PT Dexa Medica.

Is the other than the more than the other than the more than the more than the more than that? In the past 20, President Trump, it's kind of, because of SARS-CoV-2, when he got to get COVID, and then he's just out, why he's out, it's like, it's like, it's like, it, even what's what happened, maybe there's cosmetic changes and and other, But at least he can't even to helicopter, he can't go back to White House,

in a helicopter in a three-four days. That's not a man. And, it's not that he's given monocular antibody. And one other, with 1,350 patients, it's, that's the patients that made up to runoffing, and end upensiveness, and the passivocal.

And the pernournation from progressivitias, not mind, man, 72%. Artin patients who had made upon monotron body body, not be more not in the hospital, not in the room,

as a hospital, not in the room, and that's not, and that's been taken $7.00. This is NG. Hi, this,

we're coming Professor Raymond Jandra Winata, Ilmuan, or Molecular Pharmacologists, from Dexar Group. Format Wauwancara I'm a bit of the other thaning the same thing we've got to be herenation. Hello, Mr. Raymond, what's about? Welcome to you.

Thank you, Mr. Okay, thank you. I'm here, is here at-hara endgame. I want to go brook-progel, I'm going to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to. Mr. Raymond, you're you're in December, in 2004. And the life of your life of Bapa, in the 257 years' last year this.

Silacan, decedicaan, from, from, from, from, from, after, and, through, school, and, profesies, and, then, at the end of the I'm going to go about about about about the

of the future in 2015. Willa. Oh, sir, sir, paquita. Yeah, so I was in Gembert, in 1964. My dad's that, then, he was pension in the U.S.

but he was still making time of the interment of the United so, and then after the U.S. Then, after the discharge of the U.S. He had a certain and I wasa I wasa in Jember,

with my sister SMP. Then, SMP, I had hijacked to Jakarta. When I took to SMA Canisius in 1983. I was a bitulant, I was as a guyra from Jember, can get to MASSAD in Jakarta. I was I'm soo'n't really. After from Canius, I was from America. When I was going to learn about science.

If you can't know, why Canisius in Jakarta? Yeah. From Cembourg, we also know that Canisius is one of one school that's most who's known in Jakarta, while Fungu de Lourg, Ursula, and the other. So, that, it, really, one of the same time I'ma

in the S&P, if I was, I'm going to be to go to a school in Jakarta that way, Kanishis, one that's one of the time. Mugot, please. Then, I'm even, at the time I'm sorry, I'm sorry like in the science and physical, and also,

biology. So, I think, I'm going to be, there's two of the way that, I want to be a scientist, or I want to be a doctor. And, at the time I, I was a certain to be a scientist just. Because I like to work in a laboratory, I'm trying things.

I'm always curis from the little, So if I have I've always bonkare-in one-per-one to every other, I'm having some of the things I've used, I've been trying to make the way of my parents, it's a protot. Because I've always made something from the catamata, this is bonkart.

And it's, that's curiosity that's what made me for me, very curious, so I'm going to be a scientist just. So, I'm going to be a scientist just. Now, area that I liked in that research I was in the field of biology molecular, like that self-physiology of molecular. Now, in the 80s-an,

that's about the biology molecular to, we must have made, I'm not so that's so that's going to get to get up, but if I'm going to get back all the time of all the other, so I'm doing all of the same way, so I'm from the basican,

make chemiawing, make sure, make sure, and to keep it, I'm doing it, and then, it's more, because I know

from science, from the first where it was being developed, that's DNA, RNA and that's 20083 in the 183, just only one company in the molecular biology, the name is Genet.

Then, the second, the second, that's just around. That's in the 80s, it was exciting period. Because I justeruptuant many times insight from the budding elmewan, when it was still still known. Herbert Boyer, all that, that's all right, to, to do that's what I'm making, what I mean, what's the

DNA, RNA, made insulin, that, when I was in genetic, I'm going to do history. Because it's almost same, yeah, regenerations and that and other. So, more than I'm more, more than I'm, more than, I'm more than, more than that. Because, many times I'm doing their and to make paper their. And, at the time that, I was very interested

and cancer. One of the compound that was the one of the same thing was the gulomines. I'm trying professor who worked in the building polyamins that, in all the America

in some of the time, in several times, the most of the one of the doctor great by is in the U.C. Riverside. So, I'm going to gojure him. So I'm going to get a master and PhD in the case bias, then I'm at UCSF after that. Post-doctoral, yeah?

Post-doctoral, in UCSF, molecular pharmacology, work with Dr. Milihyushilovac. Now, now, I'm notherom, now, because why I also like with this because, after poli-amine, when I was lulled,

then, it, was lulled, I was relapse, I'm going to prostaglandin. That's Milingus Warfurt, the plightioning in UCSF, to Prostaglandin. And, in the bestrothalian, million million years ago, so that STS-4-6, it was sent to Ankasa for two weeks.

Then, well, I'm notunging that I also made up project from NASA that was that I'm making keep Canaveral and other and other, to make up to make uproaic, because the astronauts, who came to the world in the 80s, and then, and then, but then in the state of graphics,

it's only one week. Now, this we researched, that, and Milly, PI, I said, because this is important because many people that, to be boponged out of STS, that, because he's illang the same amount of the lunging. Because of the condition of serogativity that.

So we've done many times, penitian about cancer, and prostate cancer. At the same thing, NASA also, also, bedatangerness. So I remember, at that, project, is not apis-abish-upes-n't, and we spend in lab,

to be hours, ma'am, ma'am, to make sure that. Basically, we have two projects, one can't one that's about NASA that. After, after I've got approached doctoral science, I worked for Smithline-Bicham.

Because what I'm going to choose Smycline-Clems, because at that I've got to know that target my, after basic science, I want to do clinical science. Now, in Smith-Cline-Bichm, now, Gluckus Smith-Kline, yeah, at the work I was in there,

he merged with Glaxis, to be called to Clive Klein. I've been given a lot of work to do with a work, so I've learned, how new, the clinic, to be clinical scientist.

So, that, I'm not that I'm from, is, well, basic science, in vitro, but also clinical science, that's for, in my own own

in this, what I'm going to achieve, that's been able to science, and clinical science. If you can't back to the conclusion of the study that did with the same asapeutic, how about?

Yeah, so, we've got to make sure how osteoporosis for the astronauts that. Not need to be lullough with other, but also with the and other. We've given recommendations, formulations of the that can't autochoplast, we're also making osteoplast,

and thenimulase, and then can't bring transgramming growth factors three, two, three, and that and all and that, and, they're not corposed. Tullang they don't

have a destruction in the of their in the state of gravity that. And that we recommend recommendacation that,

that's got to now, the standard for the astronauts The other than the astronaut, that's one day, out of the world of the world of the pasting that has not been done in the way

what's done in the pastoralists the other generation that's before. Because now, now, it's already in the time, that's in the time we, when we're doing

test with osteoporosis. There's other other than with the astronauts the surrogeneat in the surrogeney, zero-gravity, so that's the human being more more than more than that.

For the result of the other than what? For example of the planet this, what is it is what is it from the gaii-idupe? Or whatever? Yeah, it's like a life, exercise, it's important, because of the lung is, if we're not only the muscle, but the muscle, but the muscle, the body also, also,

yeah, that's important. If we're also, what we're going to if we're doing, what, the way, because ofoporosis, that's going to exercise, the kind of life that is very modest, that, man, everyone has to do that, especially the people who are in the people who are people who are pre-monopausal and and other,

that they're doing that. Okay. Okay, sir. Yes. Yes. There's a supplement in the way what name, vitamin D, vitamin calcium, and other, that's, so we can't not be able to do it, so, so...

So, after that, at Glouaccio, yeah? Yeah, in Glacosmith, I'm going to do many of the clinic, and I'm going to learn about how to design of a lot of about some ofabot-a-obotan. From there, because I networked, I also, I'm also in Stanford University,

and I used in Bay Area. Because when I was, I was trying to work in Genentech, but I'm not going to come to Indonesia. Then I'm going to make a clinic at Stanford, at UCSF, UC Davis, then UCLA,

some projects, and I've got to get down how to design a drug, making a newie proclinous, and a case of a clinic as a certain ofabat. Now, the other that's what I've learned in America. Then I came to Indonesia in 2000, the time that was given by Daxa Medica

and had gotten to do what I've done what I've done, design opat ofabat and so farcein of the obatowns. Now, since the year 2005, we've madeirited a laboratory name's Dexas Laboratouris of Biomolecure Sciences, it's actually, from Roodie Sutigno,

the director of dexamedica, that's really, he's been citas, expertise of production of health that at the DECA, it, but one day, we can, we can, we can, we can't, because,

because from him, if from, if from, but we're from many of the resources that in Indonesia, and it's not even that it's not even without

the abat ofabat that's been able to standard from chemiwi, that's been made from tumbu-tumbuant. And he said, so in that, he said, okay, we're going to make, we're going to beaubsteadicitsa of Alam Indonesia. Now, in that, then I'm going to use all the knowledge that I've learned from bachelor to PCHMB postdoc,

to the time I've got to design opatine, abatting, and now we've got to get around, we've got 12 opad that new biological entity, new chemical entity, but from from the tumbu-tumbuant, that's called phytopharmacca, now it's as well as much,

yeah, Obabod Modern Asly, Indonesia. Now, we automatically have, that, to do not many of Indonesia, because in Indonesia, there's not many the other than we're doing that we can't from half-singhamah, and we have to look at technology what

that's in Indonesia. If from the part of my own, that's many of biodiversity that's still in exploitation, and potency's, yeah, potency that's still back, so, but,

why, we must have more import of the world if it's from Indonesia, but I'm sure that now, now, there's already, there's many of the roots that come up, that we can do, that we can do, even though, even when we can't makele of things in the other, we can't do that in Indonesia,

If you can't say, that's the Pemerdayamai, that's what percent, is from total consumption of opatobat Obat Obat Ombudsian in Indonesia, yeah, if you're saying OMA, OAT, and FITO-FARMA, still not many,

so, 20%, 1, 2%, maybe, maybe, maybe, 5%, because, because number 1,

doctor that merseptan still not yet. The other than the government also still doesn't even be able to serve as well as well as well from OMAI, until this is one of one PR that we have how the METERAL that's in the Immuneration of Indonesia to in the formularium national. That is one PR, so that's the innovation

that is in Indonesia, this is also by the government, because if not it's not going to be mainstream with a new about that's not that. For that, if we don't do that, then, about, abat, and the abacca, of the other than the other than

indusia, the industry of pharmacies, not much, refusely, import of the baku. Now, like, like, with the

COVID, we, importation, because what? Because the country that's export the backu, he's also

For the country that's already, because of the we're from where we're bansan bachewa. For that, we in Indonesia, we have to make making make make make up a bhawned. But what most is, what's the fact that is very being very much-denjanked. So, if we look, we're making potential potentials is much

the development in Indonesia. And we, from Deksa, we're trying to reset, not only in the bidang herbal, because that's a technology that we have but now, but again, it's going to biological, like, biological,

example of what, bacteria in the same of our own our body, that's also, potentially, so bad, then, bacteria that are in the land, also potency, so it's, and then if we talk about biologicals,

yeah, to Indonesia, don't have structure from the research, bi-reliability and biologous, By similar, we still import. Now, the time we have to be able to make it self, until, next one day,

we have to be able to be able to be able to make bioligic from from other, but from scientists of Indonesia, but it's been making, that's now this, and with the COVID this, we can make, to,

make technology technology that's a potential intensions of the same. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Raymond, as a bit of the as a molecular pharmacologist,

what is, what is, in the other DECSA that is that did not. Yeah. As a scientist, I, I, have to be contributed

many of the other one of the one of the I'm doing I'm going to do some universities atmajaya, university of Admajaya, in the Bidongatology, because that's my kind of myrile of pharmacologists.

Because that's my own local pharmacologists. I have also educated from scientists, muddhist, budding scientists, so, and how they also have to have what is science,

and how can I apply? And how can I dedicate myself as a scientist for the commoing in Indonesia? So I'm in the technology, I'm also in business in the biotechnology, Nutrigyomics, biotechnology, pharma along those lines. At the same thing, I've always made school,

give you a class in the university, in many, Panasal, UNR, and all of it. That is my own work in here. other than publishing. I also, I'm also I'm also, that's a good, that's a good, that's a good, for as a person scientist, and to be itchara, and bicarer.

So, how I'm going to teach atma Jaya? Oh. A week's a little, or? Yeah, just the SKS' just about SKS, yeah, 20 SKS, sorry, 18 SKS I'm going to So it's a lot of the study that I've done. Yeah. Yeah.

Mr. Paul, before we'll continue, Mr. Bapaguer, Bapa, you know, hobby, playing piano, right? Yeah, right. Tell us a little, sir, before we dive about science. Yeah, yeah, okay.

So, it's, I'm, maybe, I was, I was, I'm, and I'm just, yeah, I was like with music, yeah? I was like music, so in the S&A, I've learned in different different, organ and piano, but I more like piano. At the time I first, I also, I'm going to make music composition and the

other, because that's one of the one that makes me play piano, and, and, I was more than I more than I'd more than to. And, I think I, there's a contribution to piano, because it's the the other than the other, so that makes me more creative in the way of it, and then like, now, I'm saying, I'm trying to play piano, but principles and other, I'm still, I think of all.

But I'm actually, I'm still like to and I'm going to analyze the chord from music, dynamics, and that, although I'm not even though, but I like, because my education, too, in the big of music, I got into music. Lebe more than music classic, pop, dungdut, rock,

yeah. Yes, I'm just like jazz and popular, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, like, okay, like, okay, like, okay, like, okay, like, this is, ma'amacus, ha, uptta, one, yeah, yeah? Yeah, okay,

I've got to do that, I'm going to talk about about the perkemean the last month this, the last month this, the world has been very 200, 200 people have been there are in Asia, Tengara,

it's more than 6 jute, in Indonesia, more than 3,000, the number of the death not, not, If I'm not quite DECSA, this can make suret of if I'm notherned-of, or,

or, it's not-d-d-degenerate, especially to be monoclonal antibody therapy. It's about, this is how how the peran-an-an-an-chlonal antibody antinoclonal antibody therapy to be with the development COVID-19 the last year.

Yeah. So if we look, we're going to to go to COVID-in-necuitan about COVID, about COVID, it's actually not more and not not quite from collective intelligence

from the scientists in the world. That's what I'm saying that's why I'm saying that's why we're not not that we're not being a lot, but we're having a lot of we're in one or something, and we're directly in one or another. Contonion just, that's why I've got to collective intelligence? Because, for the Pfizer, They're not going to vaccine.

Then in AsaSahedka, it's also, while other than vaccines. But, actually, there are many vaccines other vaccines that can also be out . Now, the same again, with monoclon antibodies. So, there's about 70 monocon antibodies to the SARS-Kog2.

Although they're not not even though, somehow, it's been able to be and this I'm saying, we are collective intelligence scientists in the world. And in the out of the world, automatically, because collective intelligence, not only we, we're, we have the law,

where we're putting up, we're doing, that's other, that they're also, they're not in the way, that in the way that, that's in the way that we're that we're giving to the, what we're bacteria and the virus and other, with drug, and other, they're also mad, They also because they have law itself, natural law.

So, so that's called as SARS-CoV-2 in 2009. Now, if we talk about WUH, Pasar in Wuhan, people who are being animals, and other, that's only technists just. But if we talk,

why that's that's that can be a virus that's from from human, that's actually unheard-of, it's interspecies jumping. Gene pool that's in being in in in in-stained.

human human human but it's because of the human human being but that's because selective pressure too. We've got used many of the other than, we're using many of chemicals, chemical, that they're making up and they're going to them to make a generation that new. Now, the way not be the other. As a virus, they also think,

I'm going to have evulation and I have to survive. Now, the other one is the way jumping to medium to mediums, which is from thean to human because, because of the theory of conspiracies and other but in the evolutionary biology, it's even just, the virus is jumping from the human to manusia. Not impossible, that. So because it, we're adaptation, we adaptatopatization.

In our evolutionary history, we adapt to be better human beings. The virus, too, don't do. Don't think that's bad that's a bit more smart. So, until now we can't defeat them at least. They become smarter and smarter, and apalachy, and they can be able to revolutions and get more smarter again.

What we're, what's the strategic pressure we give to them, they're taking to them, they're more defiant in behavior. So, so, since there's now, there's variant delta, it's alpha, wall type, Then alpha, beta, gamma, delta,

now come up again, Kappa, Lambda, so when clarene. Now, for example, like, selective pressure. In India, many people who are milded already have given corticosteroid. Dexhametason, doses, dorsesis tingy,

bodhis, d'osyndal, what's what did is. It's out of the black fungus. That's fungal that there in the down tubu-manusia and then to get back again. That's come back again. That's a concept of collective intelligence

that they have because they've been pressured by us and we've got to be people who got to goopat, antibiotics, antipongal. Ruffalo. And corticot. Yeah, that's more. It's just very. It's just being used to be milked and then. And then, same with us in here.

If we don't, what we're not doing, we don't, we don't make upbate this with right. If we're from our case, then it's not much and not to not make sure that there are variants of other in Indonesia, too. Now, with that we've got, how did we're coming from the monocleantibody this?

Monoclonty body is one of one of the other one viral that's not drug repurposing. Because, this is drug repurposing, with indication that long, we've indicated for SARS-Co2, SARS-Co-2. But that's actually not the opat that's designed for SARS-CoV-2.

So, affinity, constant, that's not choccurts not with SARS-CoV-2. The last thing we've got to be initialed that, that's people who are people. Now, now, the antivirus, for the first SARS-CoV-2 is what? It's actually, there's monoclonal antipodity. Now, there's monoclonal this,

can be procuracy from from 80-an, 80s, right? Yeah, right. So, sir Milstein is the pioneer from monocle antibody. The permulaan it, but they they're using system that's called the hybridoma cell,

and when the system melancholytembert, that's used to research just actually, but then, people, more than more smart, and not only reset,

but also as therapy, but we're also for other kinds of therapy, for cancer, there are many of the cancer, even for cancer monoclon antibody, also, and that's other. Now, the last year, monocleone antibody since 80 to 80, from 40 years,

then, it's also, maybe think, how we can do-feed the virus with using antibody. Because if we're going to go back in the time, that is still long. So they have to have a good to make up the virus, we're going to end up the virus

we're using anti-virus without making chemi-chimiawi. So, not small molecules, not antiviral, antipolarit, we're using small molecules. We're using molecules macromoleverative of protein, the number of antimicode.

Now, what did you do you because monocoonotone antibody is very specific specific, specific, from the spike region, from the place he's connected with receptor that is in the cell baru-paru. So, the attack is precisely, the spike region from the protein that's in the body of the virus, so on the surface area, in the lower-tuburned,

from the virus. And because specific, he has the data antiviral is very high, and, really, to get-in-habilize it from the virus to neutralistic from the virus that's that's true that's not only in

the other places but also in America, in Europe, in some of the other one of the other from Asia is that from Korea Southan, Namediname

Named. Yeah. Rekirona. Rekirona, that's the name, Pelagana. That's, That's just, it's just to be restuil, like, in international,

termasue, through FDA, right? Yeah. Maybe it's about how it can be comparasic can with some other, but not only monoclonal, the other, but I want to try to take a bit with, or to the the predetatants that's

by the company for vaccines, if we can Pfizer-Biontech moderna that's using the predateatea, while the other than AstraZeneca, more than DNA. Now, why,

there are some of the and in the other than what's more than more than we're in Indonesia, maybe in a way that's the other than monoclonal antibody therapy is more than for the importance of mitigating risk of hospitalization or even than that, dabbling can,

what's there in the past. Okay. Munga, sir, sir, sir. So, if we're going to be, We've got to look at the SARS-CoV-COVID, that we're from hydroxychloroquine. Trenata, the effect is not good. Then, people who are trying to make an antiviral, but anti-HIV,

Lopinavir, Rito-navir, it's not good. Trenupt, it's also out of Rambesifil, the last is Favi-Virapirapir. That's the really repurposed drug, They're not for SARS-CoV-2, but for Ebola, for the other, like, hydroxychloroquine, it's like, the indication for malaria. The last we've heard, many, the WAWA group Ivermectin,

it's actually a drug in the manusia, and, and that. So that's the name is repurposed drug, so it's not indication aslady, but it's, It's maybe it's about to have the effectivity. But if monocontidibati-body, come back again, they're even effectiveness that's directly to start-cagifted-to,

because the result-asal from convalesance plasma from the patients that's been in-jankyth. So the penitaphs SARS-CoV-2, who's-comit-in-tac-a-oh-and-bid, that's-ehan-gallis-a-bondy-boddiness. Now, Tadayorna, there's two kinds. There's MMRNA. There's three of many.

One, MRNA-based vaccine. The second, adenovirus DNA-based vaccine. The third is inactivated virus. What we know, Xenovacs, xenophic, synopharm, and other than the three. But in the two, MRNA and DNA, the platform technology, it's already,

but, but before SARS-CoVito, to make a molecule or a vaccine, it's a lot of because of regulations that's long as well. But with the platform that's already, then, de-adaptisiccate to, they've got to Pfizer and, actually, biotech, that's getting, that's made for MRNA.

Because, it's really, it's quick, it's made. If, if, we made from the... If we were from the... ...inactivated vaccine, it's been for boulde for a month to make. But if we talk about the laboratory that's small, the lawympathorum of the first, as well as we need the

parloria, and propagations it with a big way, as fast as fast as much as well as it, just the last year not there, but the study plightiniscsia, there's just the clinis. But if the mulchulna, it's just thereinorana, because MRNA is there, that's in many-mana, that. Now, we also mentioned about dinovirus and DNA vaccine. So actually, technology is

together together. And then I was at school, DNA is more important than MRNA. But now, this is, maybe 10, one decade ago, 10 years ago, 10 years ago, the MRNA is more,

more important for interference, to make make transcription, and other. Now, now, the more important, this, I'm going to

is a new technology that's more than one day, not only vaccine, but therapeutic MRNA. And this, the dampact not a big amount of course. Now, if DNA with adenovirus, as a factor to make it to draw it to the heart, to end up to the target tissue, which, if in this, is pulmonary lung tissue. That technology also, did delivery in adenovirus. Now, if DNA is also similar than MRNA,

DNA that's already from the world, so that technology is not sooo-susas and there's in many, the delivery of the time that was hard to do it, but with adenovirus that, for the asser of the Nekal. If you're not for Indonesia or in the world, it's based on the result of the clinic,

which is zero-conversion from the patients to be. We can, now, can't even if we can't get lab, using RPD, SRBD just, used machines of various machines, yeah, system of Rosh or systems of the other, can't come out of the amount of the amount of the amount of the

antibody, neutralizing, or binding antibody, from the result of the vaccine that's before. If you're from the case of the way of the way, R&A is more simple, because it's, because it's right, it's in the time, and it's still inotovirus, it, it's, it, is given to nucleus it,

before he's going to put into stuplasmany, it's more multi-stage, than the legatting arena. Yeah, I know, I thinkeran, maybe, it's the good with AstraZeneca, is this, can, be it's more open source, more democratization, because he's not not even though

because of the intellectual property and all right. But, is, but is it more more than perennation RNA, than DNA? Yeah,

so, but really, technology R&A is, can be better from DNA. But if you look with cost, people, and the, and the things, the, and the,

Because MRNA is a because of DNA, if DNA is double helix, if R&A is single helix. So, so the transcripts, the transcripts for the same, and it's actually, it's just a good,

so it's a synthesizer from the nucleotite that's just, so it's more, less a little. The last, what we talked, delivery is also important. MRNA, vaccine we have now technology, and if you're the DNA that's the Pakenorovirus.

But, the two-two-two-dust, if we're going to be made, the two-two-neciccicciccic, in the Bidant-N-A or R&A. But... Not simple, sir, sir, for D&A, is because d'nobble-stranded, he's more stable, he's more good to the front. Not asbestiness, right, yeah? Not the samestin-of-ne-a-be-d-you, yeah.

Okay, I'm-hmm. Because because of mRNA is still vaccine MRNA, the first in the world molecule that can be applications to human beings, so that's the fact that hypothesisa is also. So I don't know that the possibility to the more than more than more than vaccines

in the vaccines in Bermal. If you're being monoclonal, how, if, if, or the people of the people that's a while they can learn to them banding, banding. Okay. So if monoclonal antibodies, it's that's the therapy that we propose this,

not as vaccine. Because, if we're in vaccine, it's going to be out antibody, but it's just long. And responsivitize from the other people, that, and if we're going to so if we're in one of one laboratory, maybe the RPDs, just if you're using the Eclipse, it's just a reactive.

But there's no. Kama 8, there's one, two, three, six, there's one, there that's two hundred and fifty. That's a high, right? If you're going to be on the 250. Now, how we can't know, stratification from the people who are responsive, if I'm like, I'm afraid to get COVID-lady,

What else is a high-risk patient? Mopuited, has diabetes, perna asma, have a problem because I've got been rocked to beppocke, and then, and then, this is high-risk patient,

at the up of 50, and other than that. Automatist, if that, antiviral that's the most that we have in the world is anti-body monoclonal. Because he's targeted and very specific to the SARS-Govieto.

Why is that? because it's not in the laboratory, so if we're talking about opetopat of chemical, it's, can still, if it's actually more natural. It's from plasma, from convalescence, from the penitase co-2,

SARS-CoV2. So it's really, very natural and specific to rederaping due to such COVID-2, especially despite protein. And this is not repurpose drug, What's the idea?

Not, the idea is called back. So, recycle not recycle drug, basically. This is really, that's really, designed, and be taken from the penitask such-gocto. So that's the efficacy is far more than than the other therapy that are at this.

But it's how we just We just look at the number of the from the people from the disease in the world. Now, it's going to be it up. We're going to be able to be able to be able to but with the mutations, we're still not even to bellowing

the pressure to be able to bring in burden from morbidity, or mortality, over the SARS-COVID, even though, even have had or other than repurpose drug, that even with the with the other than we still can't. And then, that's the molecule molecule, more that we can also make up to be able to be able to be in the parotic

from sarcovito, this, that's the most best, is the most of the body. If you can't, sir, to the case of the case with Rekirona this, where the result, whatever, what we need to know. Okay, thank you, so, so we have done. So, the Ujic Clinic, from Rikirona, this, did do you do a lot,

including in Europe, because many people are people who are in Europe, that's people that need from the drug drug drug addictiveadi. Now, phase three, the second one is the publication, the month last, June, in 21, with 1,350 patients, it's, it's turned,

patients who made up against reggerona, it's getting, and, it's not getting passivot. And the penuronement from the progressivitness, it's not mind, man, 22%. Artion patients who got to get monotone antibody to be more than more than more than in the hospital, also not in the world,

and that's not even though, and that's the number of, that's been called as a primary endpoint. So, it's actually, that can't be that regina this is working not only patients, high-risk, but all patients who are people who are still mild-puner, also has to get up to 50%. If you're high-risk, 72% and all-comer, all-comer, all-comer, that's all-comer, that's much,

that's many of the number. Now, then, secondary end-point is that is called as a, for a for a new-embuburn. So, if we just, I'm just I'm getting symptoms, like, batuk,

or, if, not so that's, what I'm nother, or pyrre, or tengorokan, and all the other. Now, that's, it's all right, and it's all right now, although it's not PCR-Sace, but, I'm, my well-being is better,

my well-being is better, that means up, that means up to be 5-hary, compared to, without using recirona this. So, in fact, statistic, it's very significant. P-1-1, if it's if it's a lot of 0.001. So, it's very significant, so much significant-exic-trial the clinic that did and that's done, not only in the United States,

but in Europe also, yeah. So, so it's the implication of, if we're making, if we're making, as far as how recirunate did be indicis actually, many people in the people who are, because comorbidity and the contabstion, why complexities and percussive

and the person is that always there's on patients. Yeah, there's a but how can't know that it will be able to be able or to be more.

Now, this can't be not can't be not any of any other, there's one of the one is, to try to use that, is to use

Rackierona this, as an insurance that I'm not going to be or I'm not being matty. I'm going to be sure that's an assurancy that I'm going to buy to make sure that I'm not in a car, because if you're still in ICU, you can't think, you can't be able to napas,

and not have HP, not have entertainment, that's looking right-kirre, is people who, right, right, the contum of the contum of the rest, tut, what's not there, and it's stress, and, it's psychologous, has made up against the other people who are who's out of ICU, that can be able to make

making re-kirona. If this is a problem from plasma who's been able, from the virus non-delta, apaca, can't get-hannan or immunities to the delta variant? Yeah, that's a very good question. It's a very good question. that we design that will

be a bit of the spike protein that's, there are areas that are as well as conservation, unconservidion, and all the other. But if he design it's a good to where there's a lot of mutations, then variants of other other variants of the other than monocon antibody this.

That's a beautiful, the beauty of the molecular antibody, because they're not synthetic. If synthetic, synthetic, it's where, but if this is specific, because it's like a key and anac-cunci, anac-cunci certain, only can't be able a key to cut a certain. Now, this is also the monocompatide is very specific, so he only can't make up to SARS-Govintu.

He's not to where, If you can't, this if you're if you're being with plasma that we're often with, I'mguptain with, what's proposed by Parasin, how, ma, comparasiness?

Now, Paterawan, it's, the novel concept, in myroth, I, yeah. I, as scientist, I like concept dendritic cell to be applied as vaccine. It's very, very much.

So, I'm not talking about, what I mean? But, but in fact, if we're saying, if we talk about dentistic cells to make sure the antibody, where he'd be injected, one of the virus, that's very very because it's very specific, also as monochololidic cells, because it's not very good. So, it's very good.

And it's also, it's also very good. And it's also, using dendritic cell. It's already in America. They can't make make sure the case of cancer, with preventive, with using prostate cancer vaccine this is a specific with the genetic cell. Now, if you're going to dox-COVID-2, then you cannot doubt about that.

Because it will give them protection that's a good. Now, the practicality with the easiest of to get the genetic cell, to make back the genetic cell, that's questions, it's about, infrastructure, chiroc, and things. Now, if therapy monoconatibody,

this is very much shock. So, I'm just a high risk. I'm still high risk. The second, I'm still mild. I still don't need to be able to oxygen therapy, but I'm high risk. Now, this is people who are noty-hatty because he progressivitiveness to be in, ICU, hypoxia, cytokine-stom, and all right, that's

this is a high-risk because of morbidity. Now, this is a target from monoconantibody. In the 20, President Trump, it was, kind of, suddenly, starts COVID-2, and got to get COVID. Tibba-dibati, he'd come out, like, like, secure, like, even what's what happened,

maybe there's cosmetic changes, and and other. But at least, he can show up, he can't get to helicopter, he can't go back to the White House lewate helicopter in a 3, 4 days. That's not mine, and it's not been given monocleanderon. It's that powerful. Because what?

It's that powerful. Because what's specific to the virus that we have to SARS-CoV-2 with affinity and the power neutralization that's high. So, it's quick so much the sameuania. Now, like President Trump, Donald Trump, can't, IRIS, is it, It's like the most of 50.

If you have, if you have some of the body there's some of the disease, there's got to be a caribuscular, we don't know what's actually. But this, this, people, or patients who are potential do you give can monocle antibody? If that's...

If you're from the same demographic, that's the most of the therapy monoclonal antibody, this? Is it, ma'amia? in Indonesia. The most is that's most is mild. But anyone who has a high risk for COVID is to be very much more than the hospitalization risk.

Okay. So this is really minimalization risk. Yeah, exactly. If this regardless of age, if you're, Yeah, it's regardless of age. Anyone who has, now just as people who have,

just who are people who are in rock, you know, eat, not, not, not, not, not, not a little,

in Indonesia, even, even though, even if there's even though, there's been there's been because,

like, life, and, and, and, and, and, and then, and then,

and then, and, all of the people who are high-res, this is, potential to ,

to be a patient monoconty body. So we don't know, if I'm, what I'm going to be? What I'm going to be? If I'm not? If hospitalization, it's going to if you're going to be ventilator or not? Now, cost that's been

many of the ICU, give you, give you, give you, the AL6 inhibitor, yeah, the same, T.C. Then, it's the cost of

many times. With the cost of money, only one shot, one shot, Mark. This is, right man, this, in the

in the front of our right right this, and if we see the that's

from the population, maybe 12% and if we can use people people

people who can be vaccinated per-h-h-a-a-d-a-d-a-d-a-d-a-d-lety can, Right, right-hundred-hundred-a-burd, 100-a-per-tour-a-tour-a-tour-tenth. Population we have,

280-gutte. ...belom-lom-lacquick than variations or variants variant of the new. At the end of the day, it's a game of scale, and speed. Yeah, right. Now, this, I'm looking, Rekirona, this,

It's very potency, for be able to be able to be able to speak. Yeah, right? This is not zero-sum game with vaccination, but this is very complimentary, if I'm in myruthsay, yeah, so, as far as a small as possible, as fast as possible,

be able to ratasy. And, suor-suckur, can't the other, in the other, in the other, that's what, how do you,

that's about, yeah, so, don't think that that's COVID-2 virus at this moment in Indonesia will not stay they are. Because,

they're going to be mutation and can come out many many times variant variant of that, the game of skill because it's more than more than

more than we can look, if we're still high in Indonesia, positive rate's also still still. Sedgant, many people people who are not active, in the art, in and other,

or risk the riskiness, now this is the potential from the patients can receive from Rekinvap or Rekirona because we don't know, if we're going to come to the hospital, what's a chance of me, getting into the hospital, even where that's one question.

But if we talk about, you know, how can we can't survive or not? That's, it's going to be able to survive or not. We'll make sure that the drug. That's not a drug, but it's targeted to have the SARS-COVID-2 virus.

I'm sure that many patients who are menning criteria that's there are many times. We don't want gamble. We don't want to gamble. We're not going to gas for COVID-2. This is a virus that's very bad. We're not going to get, and we're going to be used,

progression that's not being passed. He's invisible. And people that's people that, that's the people, who, who? Yeah, the one, man, right, the time, we're going to be. Now, that's one, sir, man, back. Now, that's the first degree of freedom. already.

Not at the school, not the manned Koleha, not a ghanotta of the otherga, this is, here I want to ask, if I'm going to get a treatment or therapy, this, how much, ma'am. Yeah, nanty they have to go-mong with the doctor's,

the doctor's, have a few area to make an IV infusion. Okay, this is in the room, yeah? Not, sobeenna, so much it's in the clinic, ma. There's a doctor who who will be administratersation from the from the abutantarant to be. Because, pa, yeah,

how can't even up-upon, can be able to create effect that we not we're not evened but it's not much mean it's a lot of people who are in sotik, there who's sick in the place in the area sotik, there's that he's having fever, same with vaccine, you know, but he's check 30 to 1,

1,000 before he can be be able to get back. That's the same with the way. From the side of the biosephemy, how we? Yeah, if we look at pharmacoeconomics, that's from the same of the payersers people who are high-res, because they're going to go to the hospital, they're giving up,

and not just one doctor, basically, two or three doctors, specialization. Blum, must go to ICU, the opad the other, and other than that. So if we look, cost of therapy, it's a fraction of the cost if he must be to come to the hospital. That's.

I'm. Let's start discussing the future. This is where and when do you see the end of COVID-19? Number one, we never know. And COVID-19 will always be with us. It will be another flu, basically. It's like a flu virus, which you follow in us. Abadi, yeah, it's about it.

Yeah, it's about it. That's what we're making, that we must be careful and we're taking from the progress, and other than that. So, how much more than, it's about how much,

it's about how much the episode that's not as dramatic as what we've seen what we're If you're Spanish flu, yeah? The early 1900s, it's,

it's about three, four-t-town, but that three-four-town, there not many ofabat-obot-o-o-battan At that, penicillin, it was not much. So at that time, they were making natural, herbal,

minimum, and, and, and, and, and, and, it's needed three, four years so that flu can be in our body, and co-evolution with our body. Now, if SARS-COV-2, you know, maybe two, three years, yeah, maybe from the time, maybe, it's not, maybe,

maybe, it's just as we speak. Nobody knows. Because at the same thing I said that we've got to let's pressure that we've got to make suredic to, what, name, he's, he's, he's going to, he's not, the idea that's not. It's the human that, like virus, like, virus, can be said, mhaloomati, also not, and the other than not.

He's smart, he has DNA. But he also, he also, he's got to be able to be curing mutation, dechlorine, what, and that's... We have to co-evolvement with them in our body, basically. If not, yeah, not, they're not going to die, they're not in the body,

or in the other, one day, they can infect us again, like virus, like with dengue, like also with mumps, mizoles, same, too, demigian.

Now, this, if I'm going to take to the little, if you know, if in 2002, when SARS, it's out of October, that's in October, it's actually mysterious, in November 2003. And if I was going to talk with

with the people in CDC and the it's about it, it's, to now, it's not to know what it's going to be Now, is that episode that can't be with episode COVID-19? It's, because of the mutation or evolution

from SARS in 2002-200-2003. Yeah. Same, coronavirus. So, so one lineage, yeah. But what we have remember, if, you know, if we're from Spanish flu the language is that's

the people that's because the behavior human behavior that's also, it's also, it's underlisks, with the probleming, the blockade, tracing, and that and other,

it's made, Spanish flu, it, really, can't be able to be able to be gone. Now, SARS-COV-1 at that time, SARS, only, only SARS, that's not been up, at least in the world

at least in Indonesia, only the areas of the certain even Merva, Middle Eastern, respiratory virus, that's also just just a few different and in the country that's just that's what? If we're really vigilant

and can localize the people who are infected then, then one day, he can be genocan He can't be taken so that can't be raja-lela. Now, this is the problem that's actually

in the world where globalization to move to be able to go back to here, so that's kind of how, you know, to handle it in this, and not just the beno that we're just in Indonesia or the case in India or in where, that they can't come in other like we can't, what we can't,

we can't, you can't, we're just as much to get up, we're socialization, we're one-one-one-lux-virus, there's one of the other people of our population this. Now, one's the only way, from the history,

from the Spanish flu, yeah, we must be able to, this is a behavioral disease, sir, so, actually. This is a behavior. If you change your behavior, if you do not change the behavior, it will go with us all the time. If we change the behavior, then it will go away.

If we can't go away, it will always be with us. Maybe three years, not clear, because now, more than than than the time, the number of manusia, it's more than in the 2009 than in 2021. Explosion of the human population growth made this, wow, this, my man, my can't. I'm going to be having yourself.

because I'm what I'm, what my generation my species and I'm more than more than I'm more than I'm really believe in this theory collective consciousness because they have their conscious too. They're very conscious of what we're doing. This is like this, this is a example that I've got to. Gibraltar is one of one the world that's in the world, where the population is almost pervasinati.

Now in India, there's explosive delta-variant. Now in Indonesia, and maybe in Europe, in now, at the time of the Olympics in Japan, there are also in there. Then, Malaysia, the other, Malaysia, Thailand, and all. Europe also, too, in Gibraltar, and then, Israel also might be there, people are there are vaccinated,

and because the country's small, the people are not going to get to come out, like the country and the country that's kind of can't even be able to be able to be it. Why still there are variant delta in the country of the country that's up, but all, it's been vaccinated. Now, this, collective consciousness,

they're all, appeared at the same time, within this period of weeks. Why? But why there's not even though there's very, very interesting. That's why I believe that we have to co-evolve with them. But the evolution can only be broken down if we can manage our own behavior. This is why we have to take care of our lives.

If we look, if we look at, it took billions of years to get to 1 million first, that's in 1,800. 2 million that's to be in 1920. It's only in period 120 years, 1 million the next year that's to be it's up. And ever since then, it has accelerated. So it's increments 1 million population

that's in 13-15-15-town. That's not just like, or long-longsumens can perilacu manusia to the nature. And I, I suppose with a pepatah or purgathe or purgatant baffa, that's more provocative to the world,

the more of the world will back to us. Yeah, right? So we have to learn how to co-inhabit. and everything and harmonis. Now, this not gampang, if I'm being I'm bunged in the keypentingan

the world that's more capitalist, right? Because the hausan our and the peningan we to keep on to keep on-emisive fossil, emissy carbon,

it's not going to be We're not in the time we're doing that's more friendly than we're more friendly, than we're more friendly, more friendly, to be around,

that's kind of that's very to be a confuguration virus, configuration, and so if I'm if I'm if I'm

that's to talk to arguably, one one that's in a very different in fact, this is actually we can be a per-perman, to make up our own to keep our lives to get-earedes.

Jolase. Not just for the impottingan and to consume omai just, but for we can also can make up to

get a way of and we can be able to work, the world in the Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, partumbuant,

then we must be really, learn about ecology. Because, want, not want, we're living, the human who's more perplex, and more, more, more,

more practice, everything. In a side, the technology, it's, it's, make, but, on the other hand,

we must be thinking that, that, that must be revolutions with evolution manusia, so if we're we can't live co-exist. If we can live co-exist,

then we don't even if we're not much of many people, look just the banquoise effect, that we've talked about, and all right, that's all right, allah, we don't take care of them. So, it's just like this. There's a lot. Now, but it's the other than pandemic, and epidemic that we don't know what, because what, because of our caravanic and we want to practice to do.

But, but that, I'm sure with the SARS-CoV-2 and the other that, it's, we as a human being, we will emerge stronger and smarter. I believe in that. Why? we have we have a bad, we're very smart being. We're we're looking, we can't make up,

if we're pepette can, there's been a lot of people, and innovations, innovation, innovation, and it's also in Indonesia, I see that that it's not-enag-enaghan, now we're getting, oh, yeah, we're now, we're now, we do something. Why don't we do, as a collective human being, we do something? As a big as well as to do something,

so that's just to be able to be better. Now, I think that we're being smarter, and we'll be stronger. Not only in the alat of the health, but in all of the other than SARS-COVID, electronic is already, artificial intelligence, barang of which are using telemedicine,

and that it was still still, now we've got used every day, So that's positive aspect from the case of COVID. But like you said, I really believe, if we don't take care of our environment, they will get back to us, and we have to pay at a hefty sum

to to to be a hefty sum to to and, you know, but temptation to be put-picta that's a pandemic that's catastrophic, this cyclos,

100 years, this I'm I'm more accelerated to the time. We're not going to not going to look for seeing the pandemic the next catastrophic.

But I believe human ingenuity that is also in the purouan and this we can't see how, in what,

in a few people can to be able to the monoclonal anti-body therapy that's been a men, or even if you're going to be able to, but it's not that we're going to have to take it for granted that we're not really to make making the environment, we're not putting to make sure about our diversities our and and all the other.

Now, I want to go about Indonesia to the next, but you're not has been inspired to, not only only the time but in Jember, but, but,

but, this is how to can clone Professor Raymond so that many in Indonesia? Because this, if I try to

come with with prestation we in the science or scientific, it's, yeah, Well, Scalance, ma'amac,

what we can look at in Thailand, in India, in the agamacarer in big, or inhagra major, or, you know, and the country of our people, they can make make sure

more than we more than we than we're going to be before, for, so, in the year, in 20145, that Indonesia, is great, really. Yeah, for students,

that's science, technology, engineering, mathematics. This country will not develop if we don't have enough engineers, we don't have enough scientists, we don't have enough innovators, because we will be on the other which they, possibly, actually, economy, will manage us with doing to sell product that's always to us. And one of the only way is

is that is in elementary level, or secondary high school. Plageantan STEM is very interesting, not going to use system that's new, mathematics is making very boring. Chemia, it's very boring. Then, the study of physical, biology, and other than that. We're making them really,

we're really, with more experimentation, more than more that more that more that more that more that make of thinking, If that's that can't have can't have a way of the way that's not always because the students'adic learning that we've got to be from the time we're small, we're doing,

we're together, from the generation that. So, now, I think I, even though it's a competency level, but didactic learning is, where the road learning memorization, and then, and then, and then, it's actually, that's how much more than that's

to help you. And the other, how we can also to give them to understand to people too, so if they're, if they're going to make up to make up, don't think of what, want to work what, want to be it in where,

the barraigny of what, and all right. Like that must be it's to be it. We'll look, Now we look at the if I'm going to campus in India, everyone wants to be engineers,

everyone's being mathematicians, being biologists, and being chemists, and that's not enough to that, so, they're going to make mobile,

they can make a bushel plane, if in the world of pharmacy, they're not only can make pill, but it's making the machine, people, and that and the other

even biological. Now, this is not. There's not there, but there but not many, because in Indonesia, it's the only engineering, but if science and technology, the term of science and science, the knowledge, the world,

biology, physics, and mathematics, it's, it's not getting better and, he's not giving the layak of the life in the future. And that's very, it's very, When I was in the other than,

people who are, oh, yeah, why not engineering, why not to doctorate, why not to not to the area business, but if we have conviction, what we're doing will develop, will be good for human beings, then what we're doing will make up and we have positive thinking,

it's just, but I'm going to be able to be able to becky. And I'm just can't I'm like that's like that. My friends who are people who are like people who are still doing, they're still doing that, and they're doing good,

back back. Now, this is what we have in Indonesia that's the time that's really really, so in that in the time in 2004, we're not the

number of scientists, engineers, mathematicians, scientists, and other if we're if we're just technology, we import,

In fact that's in 100-year of the United. This is I try to take the experience Tyeongk, where, since Deng Shopping in the in 2008-79, that's, they're to have more

to more to be medepanking technology. Burdue-dun-dun, they're giving him the people, to all the world, to Europe, even in America, America,

to America, the people. Now, now, in America, the people who are people who are in there, to 400,000 to 500,000. Yeah, right. Even in our time we, back in 2000, that was far more than than

now. This is not even in a different only one of the country just, but if we're to learn technology, we have to learn

from the other and our own people, and our own I think that's like, Hongk, German, Japan, Japan, Korea, America, Australia. That's something to offer, right? Now, this at the end of the day, back back to what we've had been about as, it's a game of scale.

For the country that's perpopulation 280,000, that we have towaughan that, more than the world to the world, the number of the world to be the world the world, the Americas of the world, the Americas of the world, the Germany's of the world.

Now, if we're just about 8,500, the most banter, 9,000 who are in America, how many of the people, in Europe or in Europe, that's, it's,

than what is what what did by the India just in America, now 150,000 who've been learned in the campus, the whole campus. And we can't passpacred from ideas new that out of Silicon Valley that's from people, people,

from India, immigrant. Now, no, ma, for we, not to we can't do things that same, right? Yeah, right. Right, right. Yeah, we must move from our comfort zone, because no change without the change itself. If we don't move out from our comfort zone,

change will not happen to our society, basically. So what we're saying, if people, they want, they're going to, they're going to be able to beaer again to Europe, to America, to anywhere they are, to Japan, to Australia, a country that really, that's really been metacetack record in the

technology. The South Korea, in the In fact of 40s, in the 20s, he's just a lot of people, while he's a dictator who's named Kim Il-zung, who's what's in the time in the 70s.

Yeah, Park Jung-he, right. Parkung-he, Seoul is, more, more, back. Oh,

that's in the Korean, used for the name of malice and bego and Jorok. Now that, There's like that's the way. Intingia, right?

So we have to move from our comfort zone. And they're going to be in our comfortsome. And it's actually cultural, it's only a nuclear family. They must realize that to build a bank of this has to have nationalism that to want with any other

So if we're only one tool to do that, so if we're going to talk, we know knowledge that can't be able to beware, but if it's an experience, and what's important, we have to go where we can, basically. And that, if we're, if we're saying, school in Indonesia, actually,

not california, but if we're going to bechara S-2, S-3, in the other than that's even better. Because of the nationality, it's in the banked in the world, we're still in the same, A, SMA, S.M.A.S.2, and that's like, So if... Nankar, exactly. ...monger, exactly.

...monger, because if we're not to, if we're going to come from, since we're not, it's notherstim-a-samping. BASA-Indonisiness just, it's allan, so it's just to go-mongue. So, this is important, If they're already, Indonesia is more than

more than investations in the research and development, which is more, less than 1% or even more, maybe or 2%. Oh, no, no, way less than 1% for R&D. For GDP, right now, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. If the country, Magu, it's 4-5% from, Israel, Singapore, to 4-5% from the PDB's, to get gulotorking for research and development.

Wow. And that's not only the government, but also the company swastah. This is we're going to galacted. Where the country that's not not having innovation in the technology not going to bea from the country's satan, the first time he made a mobile,

Hyundai or the first, who used to make, even though you like to mock. Then I remember, when we had, when we had a recording tape for telephone, what name is that, that's, yeah, right, recording machine to telephone, that, it's the first one, life is good, and LG, that's actually.

And I think it's like to die, so that's up, and they're export that when in Korea, it must be used to use. Even AC, Merex Samsung, the brand LJ, it's just, yeah, it's just it, but they're just being tried in in the population that's more than we can't have yet in this country, where the company,

where the company is self-sustra is in the business and development. How can we move? So, so far as far as far as far as far as far as from the education, and other than people, still have to make up to investation. And, uh, and I'm doing I'm working in one of the company, DECSA, who wants to make a commitment to make a research and development investment,

So we get amy and mulco-mucco new, too, ma'am. Maybe there's a person that you're about the diaspora we're, but, but, maybe if I can't take from the this is as well as I'm as well as with what I think about

that we're from people, who are in the who are school in the world and making research in the that's the way to go ahead, right?

Yeah, right? So they're galley as much as much, the world. Because I'm saying, nationalism is not illang. And, as much more they galley the more than more, then, in the next day,

they can makeapplication for the importance of the world in Indonesia. Like what you've done You've done, Lama in America, in Ghali, in post-doctoral, in some of the other companies, but, actually, it's back.

And, Bapak, and Bapacchartic right, right. Absolutely, I agree with you, but, don't pull-d-dul-d-lul-dural. Because, here, we, in the bidecine science, it's, but on the other hand, remember, that in the binaxan,

infrastructure is just as well. The other than the network. Now, in Indonesia, for the science, the technology that's just, we've got to say, scientists in Indonesia, so,

what? What is the collective mindset that we have collective consciousness from scientific is, compared to people in the world like we

like, we've said, in China, in Tokyo, in India, in Taiwan, in where even, Now, this is that we have built structure,

where infrastructure this will answer what we have in Indonesia. Because they're still in the world have automatically accessibility to have, gampal it, for example, that we're just to get in Indonesia, it's in there, there, more than brain,

which, where, in there, the people of the people think of minker, people of mongue, is the with the collective mindset that we have in Indonesia, the number of people, if we're looking, if there's a lot, yeah, yeah, so with that I'm just too.

If they're not back, don't pull down, don't go out of many, get infrastructure so many, get connection and network so many of the same. Because that will be the government,

bantan, I have one other, I want to ask. this time I'm about about people about biological intelligence. This is a molecular biologist. This is the

not-noticant, for, for biologous, IQ, manusia, or tatanan of our human body, it's in re-caiasa, so that we can

be much more than more more than the IQ-in-law more that that's a kind of that's how, how,

I'm going to come come back in context in the context in which innovation technology this is kind of exponentiality, and the kind of

of the position, or posture of the biggilderate that's kind of with linearity. Now, gap of the exponentiality that's in non-pemirintas or the government

with linearity that's very in the Pembertah. It can can beaughan some risk, can,

that, Where is how much, I want to try contextualize this in in the future future in 2005? Yeah, it's going to be it back again. Science is a blessing or can be it not blessing for us. If there are a man like Hitler, that's the example of it. He extermination one of the bank of the Japanese and other.

But he's made man who's being able to be able to be able to be able to be able to alert, that's life, much more than to do logical, that we have now, we have. All equipment we have and it's used it's just and morehous, now, sir, that's what we're getting,

if we're going to get, if we're slow, for transistors, because we can look very like electronics, it's quick-uporkempanity just one-one, one-one,

now, biology is like that because we're and we have technology that's bigotica that's very strong-involuntic by computer, apolloing of industry 4.0, where there convergence, and electronics and biological. It's very much as well as we've said,

we're making superhuman. Very simple. With using stem cell, with using MRNE, we can't bring up problems, problem, with the health and with the beauty we can reprogram. We have a crisset.

Chris, yes. Chrisper, yeah. Crispor, yeah. Crisper, if we can, if there's a problem with transcription gene, that we can give one day, maybe in the Guardian, in Central Week, out there, that, there's, we can't buy in Center, Guardian,

better than our genes our own. If we want to be able to becantycan. That's not that. So, from that, exploitation from the biological system this is very key-attie. Because number one that we talked about, natural law,

that always co-evolve with us. The other, we must have seen see see at least where if we're going out of many of many innovation that's not a natural human being, we become superhuman, and that and that's where, that's, where we have to have to be the batas-batus, we can call ourself human. Because, to be right now, with robots that's more

we have to coexist with them, and we're making humanitas our own, this is the philosophy, how are we going to be as a human? For example, 500 years from now, are we become part of the robot, part human, or are we still human being? And if you're still human being, are we still abiding to the natural law? Which is in every single religion, always there, this is we have to be asked. So, ethical principle, to must be done, in all the biological, in it. So there's the other to to be able to be able to be it.

Now, if you're non-linear and linearity is that, it's like non-linear. Explosy from the elmoboanetawan, because it's more than more, the dominion effect. With domino that we can trigger domino that's great to curing.

Demigian, even if we're not even to change our own we're on status quo with linearity and we're we're very happy and we're not able to make sure as a country.

How can't we can make up to make up to linear, we're making linear. In order to change, we have to change, if we have to change. The other generation of the next the next yearnation and the other than the other is more more than more than

competition with other, who's more competition more. Because of that, that's not-linear, and that's what we need to be able to put people who are willing to build a putusans, and all of all of things that have been puttaparte in any or in any, anywhere even if we're doing, we're not going to be able to beaute as a country

Indonesia, apalady in 2004-linger 100-11-11-11 of the unlawful government. Platform this, is, is it's just a matter of what? not just to educations but also provocation provocation percabotation. Because I'm not sure that this has been more

being done by the whole component or element of the community and the way of the same. And penikaping that is puttuked to the purpose that we've talked to beacarcan. This, if I think I,

have inclusive. have not only only about not only about but about people from bureaucracy and got from community spiritual, community

cultural, community cultural and all the unnered the panatown to kreemned so not to

pleset, but but the first and foremost is we have to have to be more than actuality this is really and it's not yet in the negatian

in the country that's much more than we're more than we're not just but we're discursus on topics like this topic, topic like this.

There, there, there, some of Pesan from about, about what, Pekirona,

about monoclonal antibody therapy, or umay, or, um, or, what's what, that's, that's, that, that, that, that, that, with the importance of our, we, that's in our course, in our course, in the in the COVID-19,

It's even when we have a that virus that will live with us with us all over. And for that, we're aty-haty. And as a patient, and as a person, we, we know when we, we'll get a virus if we're going to get a virus if we're doing, if we're going to dock, but if it's been able,

this is PPPM, we're going to be able, we're going to be able to bea-brient, variants, that's made vigilant. It's always remain vigilant. I mean, we must be careful, with that we need to be able to be able to other, to be able to more,

more than more than more than more than more, because let's face it, it, it's a behavioral disease. Although it's the thingal act that we're the thing that we need to make, it's the more that's more even giless. With the other,

opat opat of the new, like monotomyth, Rekyrona, it's very much more than help help in hospitalities and even the number of people who have risk of big. That's number one. Number two, we're in Indonesia also in many of different universities. And Omahe, this is really,

has to be paid. If we're going to move on to now, investations and research that's already to be out of the OMA that's before it, have to get up, and get up to get reinvestation in research the next. And, it's not even to the other,

Indonesia, too, monoconal antibody from Convalesan spasma in time for the time to come back. But, come back again, the more than, to make-gunnaker product in the country, it's really, because this is the result

of the collective mind from the scientists that are in Indonesia. If we don't make our mainstream, because we usually use the import-import, now when the country is going to make up to be

we can't even in the country and for that product in the country it's like it's used to be used because it's been doing research, it's just more more than, it's more than

it, it's more so it's a lot in this is what name, futile cycle in a way. the power of the world, it's very much. That's about it. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Pat, sir. It's been, had been, ha, ha,

you know. That's, Professor Raymond Chandra Winata, Ilmuan, or Molecular Pharmacologist, from Dexagosur. Thank you. Endgame is a podcast by the School of Government and Public Policy Indonesia, the first Indonesian Policy School to offer a full-time master's program

in English, and is a production of the cinema, Indonesia's award-winning entertainment and technology company. Oni Jamhari and Anga Duima Sasonko are our executive producers. Ahmad Zaki Habibi and Jimmy Kuntoro are our supervising producers. Hanna Humaira and Farah Abida are producers. Bobby Zarqasih is our director. Aditya Dema Pratama is our director of photography. Video editing by Felicia Wiradiya. Alvin Pradana Susanto is our sound engineer. Prateri Prati and Vera Rahmwati are research assistants.

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