Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Edwin Syahruzad: Target Iklim 2030 Tidak Cukup dengan Fulus

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

Presdir PT Sarana Multi Infrastruktur (SMI), Edwin Syahruzad, membongkar bagaimana investasi dapat menyokong keberhasilan transisi energi dan pemerataan pembangunan Indonesia. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #EdwinSyahruzad ------------------------ Magister Kebijakan Publik SGPP Indonesia Pendaftaran Maret 2023 admissions.sgpp.ac.id | [e-mail] | https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: https://endgame.id/season2 | https://endgame.id/season1 | https://endgame.id/thetake Kunjungi dan subscribe: @SGPPIndonesia   @VisinemaPictures   @ptsmi_id 

Ines, in every Yeah, to get down carbon, right, emission, emission, emissing, it's, there's come

to be perjointed to the world international. There, there aregaining, there, there ecosystem that can be built,

yeah, and there there's, demand it. This is NG. Hello, So, my friend, today we're atwin Sharouzad,

the Pimpinant of P.P. Sarana multi-infrastructure or SME. Edwin, thank you. Can't be able. Thank you. Askita, do you endang to the podcast.

Telling, de. Latar belakangang, you know, school, S.D. S.S.P. S.

S.A. and college or university. Then, can't be able to be SME to be able. Okay. Thank you. I'm

I'm like I'mer as a number two from three brothersodara So, so I'm going to in Jakarta Southan If you guys Maybe in the same year

I'm familiar Yeah, familiar So I'm familiar So I'm in bed Yeah So I'm in school, I'm maybe Deket Dekite there

SD in Koppelike TRILoka Then I I'm SMP because because of the family has tradition, call on my I'm going to come to Canisius, boy school, so maybe,

SMP, SMA, in there. Yeah, as a child yeah, when I was a small I, I'm going to explore allahragal, like, active in allharagia, same also in Canisius, because in there, boy school,

is that's we allagga we've got to work. There's a laparang of ball, that's one favorite of my favorite. In fact, it's also, so forth in the corner of the tennis. Yeah.

Yeah. Fun, like, much of basketball. What? What? Balla? Man tennis. I mean tennis,

I've got to come tournamen, But it's not, but not, only for this just, have fun, have fun. And then, six, that's, I'm going to be in the EU. So, so, I mean, I'm going to meet people,

right, people, really, so. So, many, that's big, got, there's. I'm going to say, Buceriscerimuliani and to say, at the same time, uh,

to get a student, because I'm just lullus. Yeah, yeah, what, um, uh,

uh, uh, I'm sure of uh, make, um, take, the jurusan economics, yeah.

If, d, the, the jurusani study the Pembunan. Yeah, I, I think,

why, why, why, economy? Yeah, the, The first is because Ipa. Ipa, Ipa, maybe the most ofocat.

So, maybe the most cocotancy, I'm agonial, I'm agonial, with logicaeanity. Acutanty, maybe if you're more gamping, asset liability, but, you know, there's a journal. That's a biterangue, that's, that's, butulner.

Yeah, I'm, because there, I'm nothattica, yeah, then, there's it's it's two, and, yeah, I'm very much like, I'm going to be able to be. Butulant, you know, yeah, the IPA

also, there's a lot of, there's a lot. Yeah, yeah, I mean, from, from FAAWI, too, that's, and, you know, and,

with the study of the development too, yeah, But he's the deliolta. She's the doctorate one, the second one, ticket two, got it's got to be it, like,

what's going to be able to be there so much more than to beinded. Or not bader, or notar. Or that's notar. That's one of inspiration in a way of langsung, yeah. And, my, yeah, yeah, I'm doing that's,

I'm about, I'm sure, I'm actually, I'm going to be economic, yeah. In-samping, it's, really, economy,

I'm going to be three. I'm not get-TB, if you're just... Wow. But just... There is... Just true.

Economy that, what name, it, it, it, I'm like that. Lulus, I, before lullus, I'm at least-you-, I'm at first-a-sistence of Mr. Mnwar Nasutian,

while using scripsy, yeah, from 90, I've done, I'm going to doxedia, I'm not, resupciliinging is quite yeah, while I'm working,

as personal assistance, and I've beenaja better, yeah, about the important, empirical evidence, yeah, in the other than the theory. So, causality of empirics with theory, that just as I've learned

from there. Yeah, I'm just a little bit longer, yeah, I'm 9-3, I'll just go back. Like, that, the, I'm the, bank, yeah. I'm going to go to Bank of Japan. Yeah, the inting is the analysis.

I'm pretty 30 years, I'm pretty 10% of my life. I was like to be analyst. Because I, because I'm not going to get at the time, at that time it, when we're going to boom, 94, yeah, I think, is it, East Asia Miracle. Yeah, we're india to capital market. At the same thing, yeah, quadrupling gage, Yeah, in-pinded Yeah, in-pinded,

Pinded, to be analyst, equity-analyst, and stock market also, at that, too, too. Well, Yeah. Before 98. I've been 998.

So, that's, long story short, yeah. I think, I'm going to be all from equity, credit, equity, back again,

99, post-crisis. Because I, one time, I've got to pranches. Okay. Dutemanin hisri, yeah. School to work? Is it?

Is it to work? And I'm going to continue. Cuman, because I'm sure you because of a student baysiscius, I know, I'm going to beaiseas, which is affordable,

like, from the tuition, yeah. Yeah, a year to, not too, to learn the basis French in a fairly. So that I was the year,

I was still before I'm back because there tavernan of the Reksa. Okay. So I'm gbonged Reksa. 9-9, I think post-crisis. Yeah,

I'm going to be an analyst. Wow. But in Dada Rasa, we know if we're recovery from economy, so there's narrations there,

there economic stabilization from inflation, yeah, from inflation 60% and then to the bottom-hmm the most part-market. I see, just through,

just to be bonn-an-analyst. Nice, see. Indar from equities to... To box-income. Fix-income-an-analyst. Because, yeah, opportunity's there, just-do. Right, from publicly issuing bond,

yeah, from new money, from underbitten obligation-bara, more than, what, yeah. maybe at that, if we think, also high-yield bonds, yeah, which is italy the value for money, so that we can't we can't recommend to investors, and make-halsil can't return-upon-buoy.

So, it's a-joling with pernurununaned bunga, as a journey economy, it should also credit, more than, well, It's more than I'm practice. I've been to spend the Udharka, yeah, five times, to be an analyst, five times to go to business.

And it's, it's going to be able the chakrawala I'm, what, what, name, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

I think, I think, I've done, I think, to be in Dadaqsa for the last. This is all the same. This is all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the, yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Right. Right, right. We can't be chakrawala. That's going to make up.

GIFI will be able to. Right. The phone will be going to be going. Musty-notice, you can be able to. Now, the conclusion is the puttusance to be the same-I. That's what? Oh, that's interesting, too.

So, I think, the phase of my capital market is at the end up when I was shifting gears, to SMI. because, we must we need, because of Europe, that's the d'anraxia, that's a greatrexia,

so, yeah, you know, leverage from position. Right, I was the direction, in Darnedraxas, security, which, also, who over the prop trading. That, that, yeah, we leverage,

like, bonds that we leverage, with creatively, we can't make, what name is investor-based, to fundanay investasies our obligation to the public. When there's European crisis and

bunga naik, I remember Lehman Brothers collapse, yield that, government bond yield U.S. dollar, it's sumpet, it's up to 15%. Yeah. The price, it's been able to be able to be able to be able to be. That's it's to be able to leverage position like that

the time before the end uprolete and I'm going to not unique in the world in the world So there push factor

There's pool factor too pool factor yeah I see I look at that infrastructure is a theme

that's a thing going forward at that going forward and infrastructure as a set class

that is wow I'm very-lawful-as-as-you-you-lawed-as-ma-you-same-you-lawed. Yeah, I'm sure, because of the money, 2009, it's been able to come in New Mexico. And, yeah, uh, I'm going to, like, I'm going to be able to company that clean-sheet, yeah, uh-uh, and commitment of the them-megang-sam,

very big. Oh, yeah, and, that, to be it, uh, creativity, practice, I, uh, I'm, uh, peggawing number 15, in SMI. I joined. I'm for Bu, Emma, right at that time. Now in Pertamina.

So, the episode I, yeah, I'm upangat. I'm kind of, I'm going to be able to be able to be able to be able to be in rexie. And then, initially, it's a government-sponsor Infra-Fans. But this unique, because this is the the main thing that's the moment that made IIF.

Awalanyed to only... Indonesia Infrastructure Fund. Yeah, Indonesia Infrastructure Fund. Yeah, to be honest, SME is infra-banks. Plus. Why? I said plus-plus, because because,

SME also, SME, I'm not even though to invest in equity. And I'm noticc. I think that's one of uniqueness from SMI until 2015, I think,

I'm going to say government sponsor Infra Funds, SMEESA, fund, or people want to say SMI RUHMIII infrastructure,

if you're the basis the regulation, Yeah, you know, you know, m'embourg-plus, that's SMI, who's really focus on and investations. We've got to be able to

there's one investas in the road, green field. Now, after 2015, that's a phase barue, yeah,

after 2015, a while 2016, because at that there was injection model, yeah, and there a

in a lot of the Umba in the UNAs the UNAs can't give themerick this is a different. This is a different. Because, because,

I'm not only the government of the area, not only only the money back, but the more important is the mission

development. How much the area, can be a better because of the area, because of the economy, to the fundanan. Funding base is how,

SMI? Funding base is in 2013, we've got issued bonds, yeah, corporate bonds. So, in the first, practice, government,

that's a pay-up capital. But if we look at structure permodalance or structure liability from SME, model that's about $40 trillion from asset $125 trillion, the rest of the utangu. Now, the, $40,000, from where? Modal is from pay-up capital, the government.

The sum is more than $10 trillion, yeah, accumulation profit. So, so $40 trillion, is money from the government of the government? From there. From the government of the government, $30 trillion, I'm going to $32,000.

So now, total equity, 42. Okay, $10. Retain earnings. Because it's been divided dividend, too,

well. And then, channeling to the all of the equity or hybrid, Hybrid, primarily, there's income. Pinjama. Pinjama.

Equity, too, represent only 4% to 5%. But, so much more than $1. So if you're in-being-usah, I mean, categorizing to asset classer, yeah, pinjaman to the badan-usaha, it's about $60,000 trillion, payment to the government to the government that's about 30 trillion

then what's what is the other than what's the other than the money in the different than the money in a lot of equity if you're going to be it's a business so that's a while pendentirean malas the But because because catalyst, the mission is catalyzed in the infrastructure,

and at that time, the PPPs, very, it's, very, the government, to make sure to make uptogant to APBN.

So, we, yeah, as the PPP, right, the cipipy, yeah, we have three pillar of business, the payahean,

public advisory, yeah, and consultant So, public advisory is that is originate many PPP project in Indonesia. So, so we, so we're in the CISISIPPs, financinginging also

with bank, for closing project finance. And then the equity investment? That's the... That's the... Contonit. The example of...

We have... Jalantan Malang, that's in 2014, and underwent, and it's in 2016. And it's out of 2020. Why, not, in the form of penjama. Why, why, that, in the landmoney money? Oh, because, what, what, name it? Because we're because we can't With the consortium, with

JASA Marga and the Plumontan Perumannes. And structure model that optimal is For that it's been in a form of That's right. And, yeah, when there deal equity, yeah, but by mandat, but by mandat,

so we'll. So, we also try totalizing. Then we also, we also, there's also, there's same, is the same. So,

equity investment we, yeah, and they're in total, and exit. There's two, yeah.

Now, there's also, the Cimagis, Cibitung. Yes. It's, the top of construction.

This, this, in the model, which, is 40s, and, 40-an.

But if, if, but if, back, the part of capital-based that in loan to

pay, that's, How about? Yeah, maybe, yeah, if you know, like the local currency bonds, it's about 20 trillion. Okay.

This is total. Multilateral, almost equally important, that's that's that too, there's global bond. Great. So, yeah. We issue past

the bungaer's 2% when, that's like, issue money, that. We're all nostalgia, yeah.

Like that's right. Yeah, yeah. That's total funding base is about 100T. In the back 100, T. Yeah, 80,99, that's. Kuh. Kwart, and we're still. And we have a treasury asset.

Yeah. In Citi, yeah. So, Natal, total financing and investment, can, around 190. Okay. But commitment of payaiian, already 150T. So we're because we're still

we're still there's room for undron facility because project project that's sifatting, can't make sure maybe I give flavor, yeah. It's in 2000, we're up, five, past, yeah, we're we're one initial

or first landers, yeah, to mendicung Jal Transumatra. At that we had to we're quite fit. With the stifat Yall Transomata that's not quick-healing. Tenor's 25 years.

Grays period of 10 or 15 years. Because we're not able to ask. And, structure modalities for in Transmata, yeah, pinjaman is represent

just 30% from total project cost. Plus, Yeah, so far as well, so much more than the same is things, you know, constructor project, must be the project

that's past, with mission development, yeah, and also, I think, there's, there's support of the when it's at

because there's PRPres on, so, so, so, so, so, so, So, so that's not to kick-in-in-can,

can't-a-man-a-lawful-in-lawful-in-lawful, what-nambon-lawful-a-old-25-tahoon, so-gall-a-old-old-tall-a-old-old-old-a-old. So-ing-gall-a-old-old-law-a-old. Yeah, if we've got, I-old, is a lot of familiar. It's really, really, really, my previous life, long-bago-lame. That's when it's not. It's not true, I was it.

And, yeah, we deliver, yeah. Yeah. It's, can, with credit SMI that's amazing, that's been tel-dainter, If that, if that's not even if it's If you're puttrakhaned, if you're going to be able to If we look, if we're looking infrastructure

that's quite massive, right, right, the end, scale that massive. Now, this, maybe 100 trillion, that's not just, it's not just,

maybe, maybe, maybe, if you're, if, want, you, or almost same with what we've sacksyed in Tokyo.

For what that? The labuan water, kay. Right. Highway, like. Begumanket listric and, like, that. That's how much. Yeah, maybe the way

the way of the same. Yeah, we have discipline for recycling assets. So, so, so just true, because, through the rest of the quality PTSM is very, yeah.

That, NPL, that's zero point three or four gross and we are really provisioned. so because of the asset quality bad, let's say, by the same, at the end upal pandemic the same,

yeah, when it's the time, it was up uh, uh, NPL mingat,

yeah, asset our data so object refinancing. So, there, in one side, we're, We've got to the other

but we're in the same yeah, yeah, because we can't make more, but in the other side, we're going to be work more hard. That's one thing. I think that's one that's one, yeah, that's

that's a lot, I'm going to be and the other, I guess, because SMI has had been competitiveness, yeah, can't give long-term tenor and can be flexibility in terms of makes, justru, yeshurt ismipuant SMI,

SME, is true, to beacquot position senior loan. So, that's cash deficiency facility, that's, can, it's made a project so much access to senior loan. Because senior loaner loan is

a lot. Jalalal on the path awal, you can, there's been, there ramp up risk. Now, risko it's,

mitigates with a certain by if there's a few that's in the facility I think that's a positioning uniqueness, yeah catalytical that that's which

that's not there's institutions other that's to make up to what what SMI does I think I think maybe, what name, what's the

project finance is, is in Indonesia, because Indonesia, it's not a lotang for corporate loan. And, maybe, product product that that's subordinated loan, that's, distressed fund, debt fund, but, the sifact loan. But maybe the illustration of the position

creditors senior the facility that had that that's the impact to the buchu bunga to be what? We can't. This is a real we,

we gave facilities that same case deficiency facility to to a company I, I don't say

that's about it, that hydro-producer so. So, company that's can't rebate-up yeah, that's not-up

yeah, if you're without standby facility that, it's from, I, it, yeah, and it's double A. Wow. Happy, same, happy.

Wow. Because, yeah, how much nots, so. So, so, the margin compression. Yeah. The one, two percent.

Yeah. It's not, the person whenerbidcite-past. true, waddo, oh, adhapal. Alhamdulillah, right, that's it.

Ideal. Because it's fixing the grid. We know that the name is mini-hydro, PPA-A-na can fix. Price. I want to try, maybe,

muckus, this, in context penanaman model, asing. Because SMI, is, if I'm, I'm like that's great that's more than more than material

from the lateral or bilateral. That's in the form of loan, but if in the form non-loan or non-pinjaman, this is as a illustration asing to Indonesia

is kind of similar than Malaysia, Vietnam, Filipina and Thailand per-o-o-o-pand-tyland per 1, 100 dollars. If you're about 400 dollars, if you're going to be able to be a lot,

that's $19,000 per one per one. Yeah. Yeah. What, is, that is, do by the institutions of the government like SMI,

to more engayra-can. Tentunthulner, there's a hypothesis that's about why Singapore is to be money per-a-one-the-one

And I'm not too argument that Singapore is because it's a lot of people per per-tawned, yeah, of Malaysia is relatively far more than Indonesia, but the number of $200,000 per per-a-one.

Now, the hypothesis is the per annumal from out to the to where it, be correlations not with ideology, not with geography, but it's

very related to of the law of the law is how much. Yeah. So, it's going to be a bigian from narration as far as far as SMI.

Yeah. I think that factor that underprenamant model is two sides. From the side. If we talk about infrastructure,

infrastructure is a concession asset. What we're, what is made model or value from infrastructure is, yeah,

that's all rightful agreement yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, that's about, yeah, yeah, and, been there's that we as we're saying, yeah,

the, that's important, yeah, that's, that's, so, so, in the context, so, I think, I said, infrastructure,

concession, asset, is one of, SMI, yeah, as project development facility, yeah,

or the public in originate a public, a project PPPU. That's what we're in the process from the process from the, from the way, the point of the project, and then-and-consultant, until,

the visibility study, so, it's all that will be the termed document. That is it's one thing. So, that's one thing. The more project of PBO being taught to market,

to market, more more than the market, and I think of the market, and I think of the sector that even, even, you know, it's been able to create, yeah, it's all right that's in B.P.J.T.

That's not going to be B.J.T. Right. It's not much. Yeah. Even the whole time, that's, sophisticated has been sophisticated has been

even. Even if we can can't, can't. Now, now, that's Papua, that's the KAPU-U-K-U-KU-KU-K. That's one side, Sisi-Sysi.

Now, maybe, if domesticly, how we replicate sector d'allantel to sector other, transport, and, and, like, that. It's also, the urban infrastructure,

which the ongannangangings is at the level of the government-da-era. Many things, can? That, we can't do, to do that's capacity billing

and all the same facetitation to under the whole lot of it. That's Sisi supply. Now, Sisi-D-Mann is related to sophistication financing offering. This, I'm going to, because I've been fresh,

this, we're just signing. Project geothermal EGEN. Bayang-Kiotermal in Indonesia, this greenfield. And so people people people

reputable, domestic and yeah, yeah, investors'a of US, investors from US, financing also, we, co-operation with development bank US, DFC. So, it's maybe showcasing

that geothermal project finance not cross-border not really bank bank bank but even though but also local, but also

also local we're going to move on that America because there process they're going to make sure

tell you that one one of one one because of when it's related with with penampunan

well yeah But I'mal, there's true. There's a program, there's a program, I'm a lot of it. So, if it was realization, it's already, it's been doing field. Exploration stages,

yeah, a little bit more, it's done by investors. There's a little bit more, yeah. But, we're even, we're just a program because of work with Bank Bundia and Green Climate Fund. This is unique,

this liability, they're the commitment and $600 $600 $0. Yeah, I'm kind of. Programme, program loan.

That's already, yeah, loan, that $600, yeah, there's element hibah, I think, I'm 180,000, that's World Bank,

dollar. And dollar that's yet deploy. Now, the sisset, we'llurk, because it'stellation drilling. There's three things, first,

the program's government drilling. Yeah, intuiting, we're giving money for PDF, like, the stilion, for project development. For pelemen. For pelearned, after result, then it's be tendered to the bank ofusaha. That's one side. The second is SOI drilling.

SOUI drilling, now, this is unique, so it's not, the way of KP, uh, the body ofusaha, the country that's the company that's a license,

and will be able to be, the path of exploration, yeah, it's eligible to get to get facilities that, yeah,

d blend with the hibah Tadish king, Tentotting is the g-f Tad-f today, madeleaka 50% the government has givened 50% but for a de-risking maximum 50% from project cost

that unique's there, so deris-king is that, so concrete-you-yes, I guess I'd give a pinjeman to us weita isle, there's gotroupment. it's got to be it, for a lot of two lobong, three lobang,

if, if you're, really, result is hypothetically, you know, that's got forgiveness 50% from loan. But,

but, you know, yeah, yeah, or no other who's making business plan so that's got lousy, so,

so how no, not Visibility. If you're the ability. If you're not. But if you're doing. But, right.

Right. And that's, there's technical measurement and really, in, this. Nourn't. So, yeah, it's,

we know, we're going to run in program this, aggat seneng, seneng, serm,

because B. B.W.M. This, yeah. BWM. It's, if, if debiter,

isenegas. Yeah? Mipal But, but creditor can be waddo, it's not bad if we're

If we're because Because because to have this there is there

onus, there's not risk of a riguean or not if we're if we can't

not, that's that's the I have to forgive. 50%? 50% But 50% is binary binary

from if it's not Now, this really this is this is not this is not this we're like we're using

planning final yeah on term sheet and and other so it's not no and one One, maybe there's no,

and that's the law now it's about the public. There's kementria-Sdem, in the management, the government of the law. I think it's why it's it, this is good. This is from 100 trillion

that's already that's got to commit. It's how much number or how per cent that's been committ for the importance for the development and the landan

How can't get up for the market How about? How about? Karekirae, yeah? If $100 trillion, for the barrenucusa, that's korek, that's to, to

the land and toll. Because there's this also, can, pembian penda. Yeah, maybe number two, it's the

electricity, district, about 20, 25%. 20% also transport Badara, and other than other

Labuha. Then, the other from 20-25% electricity that we we're now moratorium,

yeah, in-mend to PLTU-Bat-Bara That is up for renewable to about low double-digit, I don't.

I'll look, But the other's there. Arrheny. Because of moratorium PLTO. Yeah. We're the arhanna to try, yeah, menugue decarbonization. Yep.

We're, we're going to decarbonization. This, can, if you're not coming with COP21 and strews. This, can, have been puttunin 50% in the time 2013. Sisa 25% 2040. Sisa 25% the last, 25%? This is not a lot. Yeah, right? And I'm looking,

potentially, to make decarbonization, this is very. From perspective of the gas-bume, with a geothermal, with a catatant, we've got to be, we've got to be able to get from resource in the world. And, it's more than 1%

from that that's been exploited, and explored. Upside is, can, right? Yeah. Is it, do you'd assume that, that this is the

the future of the more than the more than the more. I think it's a lot more than it. But, it's a bit unique, yeah, if we're talking energy transition. We've got to energy transition that context of, the context of, actually, there are two things. First, bowering from energy

or electricity production that has to, what name name, it's about the more than, because, can, the intergantuan or, what, the number, electricity, yeah, energy, which,

based fossil, it's, that's, it has to be curangin to, to make sure, also, also,

yeah, that's, that's, that, there, there, there, is, Maybe I've got a lot of the electrification, like,

like, like, make use oil, like, to be electrification, like, like, and again with mobile-litriced, compoompor-listrict, too. That, maybe, I parker, too. I'm more to talk about the first. because there's because of the basque

it's still england emissing carbon yeah inting that's so that's more than justro more than more

more than to renewability yeah okay that's because because because we we've been

there's been there been on the government to be country platform yeah energy transition that context

to make uproarant energy more than energy more carbon emission why? Because, because there's unsur fiscal. If we're looking, from power market in Indonesia it's, there can

have subsidies, mystic, and compensation. If until portal the 3, 2002, I just saw, look, maybe $88 trillion. Yeah. This is right.

So I'm a lot of the first thing is there's a lot of two mechanisms. The first, yeah, we're doing renewable energy. Gassi incentive, cash financing, casing, cash product, product, which unique, yeah. And the second, yeah, We can't be able to commissioning So, so much

The President of Pellet PLTO, who'susessing la, who's puttickin-law put-productive. Now, this, the two,

this, if we're inouble, if we can't let's make, but, the way, there's constraint. Constrains'n is what? because of the anamanket, what name's IPP, it's also contractual

in-flexible, tax-ur-pay. So, not can't set-a-mer-eta. Yeah? We're building, we're don't, renewable energy. Because,

the condition now, you can, there's condition of supply. So, so. So, even more can't-it-hmming-a-old to how much

to make-pacquat the end-and-a-old-bara-tabarra-tas. That's about we can't that, you know, that's all depresiaeastern as to be-percepat,

it's, that's, that's come-a- back-to-fis-co- If-I-P-Pen-E-Pen-E-Pen-E-Pen-E-Pen-E-Pen-Pen-U, compensations what? That's what we think about. But maybe this, ma'amas,

the hilirn't, maybe there's a bit more than we're inobati or disliked. I'm not to look at the same thing. We're just to beapeutic. We're justrued energy. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, right. There's titic, which which is actually excessive. Because, maybe, maimpet. It's the up. Yeah, right? And it can be correlations with some of the other

is productivity Yeah, productivitization that's at level $25,000 per-orang-pirtown for the and jasah.

And productivity in Singapore for the for the same per-of-a-pirtown that's $180,000 and $1,000. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. productivity, it's it's a energy, yeah, right, right, yeah, right, right, if we're not, this is,

if we're going to reneubility, or EBT, not as the mustin' we have to stop, yeah, can, who,

it's, maybe what's to see what it's in the, there's, there's, there's the Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what's the way, what, know, what, know, it's, this is pro-emisie, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is pro-fiscal.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, yeah, to oboebok-op, for the importance because,

wow, this is zero-sam game, or what? Yeah, yeah, yeah, map or what name, what um, what name is, uh, transcisa energy,

that's that we have defined. And, and, now, the government is that that's the first. And the other, maybe,

we can't we, we have to have put a creative what, um, offering,

yeah, what is, what is the definition, project? Yeah. Renewable project, yeah.

I mean, the transition project is, like what, apache co-divisioning that's repurpose in a form of a blanket contractual agreement? Because in every niatant,

to menrown carbon, but we do, emission, emissy, that, it must be compensations that can beacquenchable

to the world international. There's the other than there's there'sisystem that's about it's and there's a demand that I'm I'm seeing that I'm seeing a transition that's one of the yeah

is how whatever that we're doing that it's not disruptive Yeah, bethul to what we've that's allami Yeah, right If that's, if the renewability, it's a result of

that's disruptive. Right. Right. So, it's like, plesite, we're. Yeah, yeah. And if I'm not disruptive, we can't zero some game, right,

and non-carbon with carbon. Yeah. Okay. But this is a disrupting room fiscal. Yeah. If we have to compensation carbon. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, one-fiscal, what-namuant that's more than, what's the other, I think, I think, that's also, it's also, with, again, again, the ecosystem, and, yeah, maybe, maybe in the Dengal-Bajus, already applied, and make create demand for carbon, for credit, and, maybe with, what, what, what, yeah,

data international, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, it's gonna be

jane, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To do you know more it's a journey, yeah.

For SMI, it's a journey, and we still give fiscal support to, to, to give an offering

that, yeah, to, you, to doongue project and transition is just not only project. But there's implications

to be able to beaumny's social. It's not. It's not. But, but minimal, project is always represent showcase, represent, what, micro can always be made make sure can make sure. It's more fiscal cost, and it can be more

more than it'll be more than the government also. I see, seeing, it's not very much, yeah, in context, 100 trillion, which is the billion, which is a lot of billion. But, but this success story as a conduit, model

that's up from the land and out of the world, and success story in context of the control and management risk with NPL that no comma.

This, why not be gedein just, narrations. And B.R.I.M. 100 trillion is, it's a commitment facility to the Usaa. The UNA,

$50 trillion again, $43 trillion. $150 trillion, still still still in context $18,000 to $20,000

billion PPD, right? Right, but if we can look the Pemanket Listri, capacity that's that's been that's about,

is 72,000 megawatt or maybe 25,000 megawatt. It's that's to, people, per-per-one,

about 1,000-500 kilowatt-hour in Indonesia. If we're bandinging can with Singapore, the country and the country

modern, they're electrification is around 1,000 kilowatt hour per person. But I, if I,

like, if, if, the rule of time for modernization, for the country to be modern,

that's, it's like electrification is about kilowatt hour so we have to multiplication five times lipat yeah yeah yeah that's in the

intuangue we've got to back on 72,000 yeah megawatt if we're we're modernization we need we

we're we're 350 000 bettel delta delta's 280 yeah

megawat for we we can be being of modern. You're a penedatown-a-a-a-a-a-i-i-i-i-i-a-i-i. But if we're just banged-a-boh-watt-tahun,

we're going to bea-old-old-old-old-old-old-old. Zillenial and millennial not-sabar men-sug-a-am. Yeah, right? Now, this, if, I think, I should be found solution that ramah-lingungan,

but also, but also, bescalah, in the scale of context and development. How much? Yeah, we're being to competitive advantage,

I think of course, I think, competitive advantage we're, what we have what we've got to what we've got, what,

the air, yeah, what, the time, atahary, and geothermal. I guess, I think,

three that's the water-al-al-al-air, the water-to-air, the sunbering in the right, right, if you're in-the-aird, in-pannaping. Just in-nugue efficiency and effectiveness just,

and, mannepan, and transmissi. I'm very, I'm very much that in the time, or 20-town-to-d-d-d-d-d-d-dott-a-dome

to-beckan will be a democratization energy. And I'm looking-lite the Sunagheria will be a and justru, the riskosy this is transmissive and if we look at nraca in the purusan utilities in the

world, moan ma'amaf, it's not small for the importance of transmissive but if energy is under democratization with the powering this, this is how do-risking

for pre-existing balance sheets for the world. Yeah, yeah, some of the air-risking, now, even now, it's been, kind of, uh,

where, uh, market, or power market, it's more, yeah, ketimang fully integrated, yeah.

Because, many, this, this is the consumer, yeah, who has been pledge commitment to rather clean,

energy. I think, that's like, like creativity in mehameas. One project, and contractual agreement, yeah, that's making can be said,

kattakana, IPP, yeah, not only to PLN, that's, that's, that's,

that can independently, consulment and producer, that, is, what, what, namahue, it's

commitment that's made, and there maybe, there's also resharing in the form of carbon that, I think, that's now going to go to

go to the same. I'm going to see SM this can be a perpurn in the line in the front to get to all the people

national to, you to, yeah, to, yeah, to the people who more of the like that's geothermal or

or the other thanagery. Angin chopy. Hydro supply is in the not in the place demand, many, yeah. There's one other, it's name is nuclear. Nuclear.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how I'm aga, I'm a bit of decusicusical. Sucur, succour, because if I look,

So if I look at the nuclear, the other than in Fukushima, and Chernobyl, 2011, but in some the decade the last, the number of the because nuclear,

just 3,000 to 4,000 per-a-one. And, the number of the amount of the amount to 2 to 8, 1,000, because pollution,

right? Now, nuclear that nuclear Ramaybund and sorry, though, if you're agamacicum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this, if you're... If you're rupterical,

I, see, I'm first time, that, yeah, as a BWMN, yeah. Maybe, this, this, discourse just, but, discussion, discussion, discussion,

I don't say, discussion. I think, I'maqasic, to cost Yeah. economic, social, also finance,

from project that one thing. Because scale, I was going to make an economic of skill can always make cost of capital so much more.

That's one. The second, the other, also meeting with demand. I mean, maybe, maybe to make sure of the scale

whether or not, yeah, we're about, we're talking about, we're saying nuclear, bicaricc, yeah, or, you know,

or the world, and, it's, it's also also, with, demand, to be back again.

And, maybe, the last, yeah, this is about this, this, this,

this, this, this, to be made, investors participation or, government-driven

if you're given not-gaping not-gampang if you're if it's a what name-nappu yeah also

certainly the project I'm I'm very not very but I'm but I'm also maybe

context the worldan-nia- I don't I'm not I'm not quite. I'm not quite. I'm notive a little bit. But I'm looking at the

German to junker-balik with situation Upran. Because they're them matikers reactor or the electric nuclear since

2011, Fukushima, but that's but who's he can't junker-baling, he's, he may be able to now.

Now, this can, we're going to talk, stability, like, energy, if I think I'm variable, that's to be pertain but back again to aspiration we're

to be a new electricification, if I'm minimum, it's at 5,000 kilowattower per-orange. If it's not so, we have to we have to try ackle and the other.

Now, what other Edwin, who's going to narrasiced by SMI to the we've got to becara pre-existing infrastructure, we've already about renewabilities, mission to the future. Yeah, so, actually, SME is is a gradual, and permanent, yeah, we're always be evolution, yeah.

Ultimately, yeah, so, development institutions which, what, what's what's, what's what's, what's, what's what's the same, and the mission, and, and, and, in the context, I guess, I think, what, I'm going to, and that's in the other than the other than in the other than well-upon-usahad, with all of assets spectrums.

This, you, yet, it's a source of, what name, sustainable growth for SMD. Maybe area that can be revolutions, to,

yeah, the way we'll do that the development mission. So, not just, let's now say,

right, you can, more than quality, than the way of the area. But, also, maybe, to the point, we can't

be a matter to remuskan and what's, the PEMDA, that's alat fiscal of the area. Because, the CISCAPD's

that, the PINCAN on D. PTAXM. It's a lot of fiscal and, that process politic in the area,

that has approval to DPRD and, other, in the in the same-as-you-lawyakness, you also can be able to give you give-publican, you know, also by policy framework,

where pinjaman is really instrument fiscal-da-era. How doescentralization fiscal this, which, which ism. It's as a conduit or instrument, can't can't carrot and stick

yeah the end up here in the area yeah this kind of there's now there's under under which is inactive that 2002 in 2002

to in the and I think in the in the unang it also also there is um

which um... Synergy pendanaan-and yeah So in the area that, the area, also the de-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ccess, or did-dorong to more manifest-can or move-buk-a-law,

not only the contanguantungant to transfer, or, whether, in-bh-bh-bh-bhruh, sumbered data transfer, the government-pussar, but, also, synergy with pinjaman. And, we, it, is, evident-a-a-clican-Q, can't make sure a plan. yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, from the transfer that's not like that all that's going to

cost- spending. If spending the sumbered from the payment, yeah, and disiaping

with good, hypotetis, yeah, spending-n't- more bad. And from the

the time, yeah, there, many, minimal project So the cost-efficient, if you can't under-budget, then the project is-enhaned more than-basket. Projects also like Ruma-Sacit-Umom-D,

that just-ru-mincat-PAD. And, more than more than to be able to be able to make-a-a-old from the crankan-a-I-N-D, there-A-D, there B-U-M-D, there PAD. Aty-a-a-a-day, it's part of the other than pay-aication institution, yeah, in terms of the way that they're menhanging how much made-a-lawyana public. And it, to the other than-in-created, the name-meyad-Badden-usaha.

In-situ, it will be able to get-a-a-resa and the area also can move to level of the bigger. This is? This is the power of the MEPA. to make, yes, we've got to be decontralization fiscal. We've got kind of, yeah, that's if you're going to, you know,

the deficit APBD, 0.14, yeah, per year, that cumulatively, yeah, it's $200 trillion. There's no.

$0.14. That's, that's, that's, the level APBD. We don't galley again, the conjaman that

is, basis it, is, is, If we're in the other than we're in the other than we're in the other than we're or RSD maybe to the BUMD or BOMD that's, what name it, before we've been talking, many infrastructure in level of dairatea this, the komenanguant, like sampa, what, what, water, water treatment.

That's so big potensically. If you're not good, that'situr, that's the power of SMI that's to be different, and it can be run if we're giving a package, not only financing,

but also capacity building. It's like bankedonia, workchair. And, and the predatatance commercialing can be able to be able. It's been able to be able to. Not a betteringatting the government Yeah, so much more than the United States.

Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. Maybe to the upon it, maybe obligation dairah in America that's namening revenue bond, yeah, maybe same as with

pinjaman or obligation that's been out by PDAM in all he's bad. Right. Or, yeah, if D.M. If they're not bad, The government is the KPBO, private that's

that's always, market, it's always, can't make a solution, yeah. Yeah. Now, if, if, it's, what, what,

what's been doing, like, IFC, or ADB, the other, the other, KAPRECUT, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Aspiracy to To control the more thane For the bestation Yeah, Memang, uh, Sojave, yeah,

Stilhani, we, Amang the arrahinger, more to development mission. So, if we're... But IFC, yeah, invest, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

not, not, I'm going to give me Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but IFC can't But it's more to make up

private, yeah. We're just almost same. Well, in reality we're not to head to head with INA.

Because, maybe if private equity or investations equity that may attract foreign investment, I think peranina

more nonjo. We, although in invest equity, also, maybe the mission development ina, let's say that's buy a lotol and enhanced value to ask adia,

catanla, yeah, we're invest to build. That's maybe target IRR is more small, but discipline. So, maybe

aspect development and aspect sector what's the name yeah, sector opening, yeah, I think,

not the the way, I'm like, I'm like that. Now, I guess that, volunteer, yeah, the part volunteer that's, yeah, differentiassies, though. Baja, but yeah, yeah, yeah, can,

Ina, man, in a matter, beckxaned duration like what, and then, and then, this is game, in duration, the better,

this, this, this, with development or development, and, and, and, and,

and, and, the, that, that, it's, We, we have practiced equity, yeah,

more than 10% of total portfolio. Even ifc, it's also even making fund funds. Oh, yeah, yeah. They've invested in funds. Yeah, yeah. They invest in a. Exactly.

Right, right. Right. Right. Yeah, right. I think, if... If it's... If it's... If it's...

Yeah, that maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which, you know, which is still a venue, yeah, but, now, yeah, capital, like capital, right. Now, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this one, this, The money is there's still still, 46%. Then, per banking,

pergain, there's PEDB, still 50, 60%. The market, it's more 50%. If in the negara and the major maju, is the line so-a-rashions their ratio their 1st 100% for eachmash from three things.

But I'm seeing look, to make up percent-tasse or ratio ratio like that, This SMI can't, to make galangan the money from out yeah, can, which is salurcan, because credibility and accountability SMI, this is not so,

Ibarat-kata, if it's from out of the other, from there, the money that I'd rather than I'draulte yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I think, yeah, we're just, yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just about the development institution, yeah, I'm just the same-hmmed-grimed funding. Yeah, that I said said can multilateral, yeah, menomination. Yeah, to the time, not-mook-hmm,

sure-term from capital market, you can't still be able to, again, again, the interstreet cycle, and, yeah, suitability from that, you know, the What other than what I'm going to say SMI, yeah, it's a good showcase

to Indonesia Yeah What name is, minimal Yeah, al-hmdulillah Yeah, perjalan my life, I'ma Yeah, perjalan my name Menang can't many

what you know concrete delivery yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but there's also there's also

who who pite, but it's a journey to us and unique, yeah, Yeah, yeah, I mean, like the key, if I said, collaboration.

Yeah, I agree. Collaboration, private, private, government. And this, I think, in the episode of this, the government's current, I, I think, for we can work on collaboration, do you, what name is, what name is, to be able to make sure of the problem.

PATHalryan. Pertanion the last, what is in the, for SMI, arty. 245, that's, 22 years. 22 years. It's been,

can, it's, Pendek. Because because of the development is, yeah, yeah, the most of 30-year. Yeah, which is the same-demolument challenges, yet remain with us, yeah.

We're still, yeah, we're not having-haping, tanking stabilization, tantal can't-a-miscan, and I think-skinan. And I think, And that's we've got to beaughan

SMI to be able to be more to to getasy massal, the probleman. I think this, this institution this, yeah, is a track that good, yeah, to be able to deliver

and end-dorong pern swastah in infrastructure, to the more to the more than the more than the more than the upon the more than the more than the we're going to put forth what the name name's capacity yeah with yeah yeah we've got have had a new a new-it-it-a-it-a-a-a-appenance because of the same-lawful finance,

that's more than that. Same as we talked transition. Energy transition is not only project repurposing or renewable, but how just an affordable transition, that there are element fiscal-in- Now, this is element ...toeembae, it's a new game to Pembourg.

Yeah. I think that's a journey barue for SMI. But that's gila. That's game-changing. Yeah. Yeah, right? That's... If it's a case of scale.

And it can be a... Yeah, it's a... Yeah, for Indonesia. Asal the controlance of it's by the time. Yeah. Yeah. Sustainability-in-in-ya. I think, I think, yeah, this,

yeah, we... Yeah, we're... Yeah, yeah, we're going to beaputable institution for this. Okay. Thank you, thank you, thank you, ma'am, as we're going. Yeah, thank you. T.M.T.Ruzat,

the impinan of T.T. SME. Thank you. This is NG. game. more like what's it's it's it's from the internet TV use all the photo video or switch

and switch to electric okay I'm going to be modet the district that's who's been two days I'm