Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Ferry Latuhihin: Batas Intervensi Pemerintah dalam Ekonomi

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Ketika masalah muncul ke permukaan, adalah pilihan yang mudah untuk menyalahkan orang lain. Mudah pula untuk menunjuk semua pihak sebagai sumber problema, kecuali duduk diam dan benar-benar becermin ke dalam diri dengan jernih dan jujur.Apa sumber masalahnya? Bagaimana itu bisa terjadi? Apa yang bisa dilakukan agar ke depan lebih baik?Tiga pertanyaan sederhana namun sukar muncul dari mereka yang inkompeten dan/atau licik.Dalam episode ini, Gita Wirjawan duduk bersama Ferry Latuhihin untuk mengupas gejala, akar, hingga solusi tantangan ekonomi nasional. Analisis ekonomi Ferry dan Gita mengajak kita untuk stop berpikir biner—lanjutkan atau stop suatu program; institusi ini benar atau salah; aktor ekonomi ini jahat atau baik. Akan tetapi, mari mulai untuk pahami semuanya dalam konteks.Jangan salahkan institusi moneter karena problemnya ada di fiskal. Program populis silakan dijalankan selama itu mendongkrak produktivitas, bukan pembakaran duit. Jangan musuhi bisnis, karena bisnis yang sejatinya ciptakan lapangan pekerjaan bagi masyarakat.Topik selengkapnya:0:00:00 - Intro0:01:46 - Tertarik filsafat, jadi ‘dukun’0:03:25 - Nyemplung ke dunia ekonomi0:06:57 - Evolusi ekonomi Indonesia0:09:02 - Akar gejolak ekonomi0:13:43 - Inkonsistensi atau inkompetensi?0:17:33 - Peran negara dalam ekonomi0:25:38 - Isu struktural fiskal0:33:25 - Program Populisme0:39:10 - PR besar kita: bangun institusi0:46:52 - Pendidikan juga soal budaya0:51:45 - Kapitalisasi alam tidak bisa dihindarkan0:56:20 - Struktur kekuasaan: Uang di atas politik?1:05:28 - Empat cara kelola talenta bangsa1:12:33 - Mindset terdidik1:17:29 - Ikhtiar menuju perubahan1:22:20 - BBM & Mati Lampu1:26:07 - Skenario terburuk#Endgame #GitaWirjawan #FerryLatuhihin------------------Episode lain yang mungkin Anda sukai:Chatib Basri: Kelas Menengah Digempur KetidakpastianJimly Asshiddiqie: Kemunduran Demokrasi Hanya SementaraPurbaya Sadewa: Pendirian dalam Berkebijakan Itu Penting

At the time, the top in the front of the matter and can't do you can. The government, yeah, stop-lacar-duit first, yeah, can. In-mata, they've already non-investment-grade, boss. If you're un-appermain, it's not a de jura also. Non-investment-grat.

And it's not gampang to be investment-grit again. Artn't you have to wait a long, long time to get it back, and FDIM-1-C. Akar-D-Root-Eval is institutional. Now, we're not know, best of the government

will out of regulation. All over time tibati abel there's a bit. So, it's maybe people,

the government, if you're people, the top, it's going to want to populism. It's very

kental in the rassi fiscal. It's not say, government should not play your

role at all. But, but you have to know what role you play, that. Hi,

friends, it's a pleasure to tell you that my book What it takes Southeast Asia has been released in English and Bahasa Indonesia. You can buy it through books.endgame. ID or at any of these stores. Now back to the show. Hello, my friends, today we're in a friend my. Feri Lantuin, a person economist.

Bro, Ferry, thanks. Thanks. Thanks for us. Inviting me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You, thank you. You're, thank you. You're, I think, like, tell you. Tell it, from from the from the

time to where's, it's been to be able to get to not things special, yeah, yeah, I'm

born in Jakarta, school, from the same in the school, school and school, school,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna

go to Holland, to, basically, I'm more that, that, when that was,

that, that was, yeah, can, the, think, so, yeah,

but, but, the, In the time, my mom called me. You're saying, come to come. You're going to be able to dookin. So, that's right. Now,

the, because I'm a bit, not like crowd, yeah, I'm going to be able to rame. Like, Philistavat, can't be too rame. Lugue, I also like music, yeah,

I like music, yeah, I like music, yeah, I like music. Yeah, classic, I'm probably, if I'm going to be classic, I'm playing, yeah, classic, many, yeah,

the same thing, yeah, the same, the, the most, like, I, Debussy, for the music, Chopin, yeah,

that's the music classic that most of music, the music, yeah, Maurice Raville, Gaspardellanui yeah,

I'm going to when I'm music like that because, but I'm going to Duran, this, at the time

I was little. Oh, wow. At the when I was I'm able guitar classic with al-marhum Salas Swita,

the one one of the Yamaha Music School if, not the time, yeah, I'm quite

I'm just about I'm going to recordo del alhambra Capricuara so so so so

so so so so I'm really bener but my mom

called me complaining they're saying you must remember that you are the only

kid they're that you have no brother no sister Jakata Mahal

yeah if if you if you have no income and suddenly I switch

to econometrics at Rotodam At all the Amsterdam. Now, I did economics, yeah, can.

Then financial economics, and so-lebeenia, sempt also gambil MAPE for financial economics combined with econometrics model, but I didn't finish it. That short story.

What? Why drop-out or kind of stop or what? No, because it's too long. Tremant, I'ma. Maksa, maxa. Yeah, right. So, so, absolutely,

PhD, if in Belanda, how long? Oh, it's about up to 12 years. Masha.

Yeah, because in the Belanda it's really, many people, not too too much yeah,

there's a lot of 12 years, it depends on the topic that you choose, yeah, can, it's,

but I got three time, it got stuck to the middle of the route, I decided to go home

with the reason, I'm going back again, but I'm back to get to malle to,

I'm going to pass-wall model. First, I'm going to be docent then, I'm going to go to docent, I've got to demo in DPR, in 2008, 5 metro. So, and the, there's an endangang,

there, there's a case at that at that Rekhka. And, Ketka, as the chief economist DRI, at that

I became a financial market analyst, to 2003, suddenly BII change hand, yeah, That's from Sinarmas to Sorak Consorcium, you knew that, and then, later, he'd be able to meet Henry Ho as president.

They said, oh, it was so colorful, they said. Because I have your name card. Because it's the phone to gabung with BII. That's a short story. I became chief economist at BIA. Five years, I'm not sure. It was taken over by May Bank. I resigned.

I set up my own business for electric, you know, That was the Mara and Parley-D. We had RICO Energy. We've been built PL, TBM, Dukkah, 10 megawatt, that's, but it's just as long as long as, because of tibatuation changes, yeah, can,

PPA rate newfought from 1755 to 7.59, Jove, up PPP our P. We, at the, end, yeah, at the, this, the country, I didn't want to say to answer to the investor,

I was solicitated IPP, not liar, that, and, you know, RUPTL, that's, it's a time, the minute the MENTRIEN

DEMANZ to Yonan, Yonan merobah rate-in, padal back at the time, at the point, I was to sign PPA with PLN.

Now, the end up the shot, you know, the shot, the end up Mankrak, that's,

in 2017, I was asked with LULU Presid PPA, you know, gabung with PPA, but,

yeah, it's, just a week on the other, he got out. He got on Nive, he'd beke out of the day. And then of the day, I set up my own consulting firm to start my own consulting firm, to start fundraising, to debt restructuring, and becas of the kids, my murid,

yeah, small form, but there's just, but there's just, boss, singat-my story. You look at evolution of economy Indonesia, this is the same way. Yeah, it is getting worse and worse, from time to time, or so, like, so much. We'll look at output of manufacturing

we, when, when, when, when it's about 2,9, 30% out. From GDP, we're going to sliding down, to be above 20%. Maybe, now, this is a day, percent. Yeah, many people say, this is premature de-industrialization,

yeah, and, it happens all over the world, but, but, because, not because, because, we're actually we're

industrialization, but because it's going of the regime that we can be said crass, yeah, that's

on the other hand it's been by the other hand, because he's not gampenggant five times he can

he can be protecting my business, if you're not going to run, and rugska in business. We're going to democracy,

yeah, we said, we said, we're going to matter, yeah, on the one hand, it's not the word of long

political platform that good, system that's the other hand, if one the other hand, if it's not know who can be president or

it deterred, yeah, that's, it's not quite, we're not, we're not, we're not, we think,

yeah, many many many people, yeah, invester that , more like, sell Indonesia,

that, that, signal-cras, you, and who, and who's who's not, the stilagher not the same

to big guy, investment bank, well, if I'm also, I'm doing by undang JP Morgan to Asia,

to Europe, you know, they're making that, that the pension in Belanda, three

countries, UK, and in Germany, that, it's, we've not,

investment grade. So, not malibed again, two percent allocations, tactical,

tactical asset allocation their, reduce until 0.5% boss. So,

it's maybe more than the world. Routherst, more than the root of all over, it's institutional. a little before

when it's a time in the omission V, the commission fee, it's not from 20% to 8%

all over time. Birocrancy that's bigot-whoed with the menry and the wakry

and the one can imagine America a lot about 15 but it's not the country.

Singapore too. Singapore too. Singapore too. Yeah, can we're bureaucracy we're just

really great big the people who rule of law and corruption in the matter of law and

In the other, the other, we've got to come a lot of course. Jarang, I mean, I mean, I'm not. China, to, diplomatsy like that. Because they, no, there's no, there's fricies, if it's, yeah. And, if they're talking, yeah, with the one-roman, I'm going to be able to. That, it's the way, that's way, that's the way.

That, if you can't imagine, if you can't imagine, if you're giving me, that's true, yeah, this isleph, and we're still. And, we've got, we've done. It's the same time, because of the end upal, cabinet I'm not

I'm not I'm happy yeah sorry yeah I'm not I'm not get used I'm not

ganjianing people who runchel people who people who people who people who and by dollar

because I'm because I'm I'm sure because I'm from program I look that backer money

that's like Mbg like KDMP MOUK MOUP Mauds build 5 million RUMA

RUKKKUK DURV so LUTE so yeah so you So this all Baccar Duit yeah

whatever the reason is, the end up I predicted at the time it's already. Dollar 10-10-000, even 10-1,000, the month February 20thal last, when I talked about

and then-tara, I've said, I've said, this rating we'll do download, and it's not a 10-blin after 10-month

to get out-look we're from we're not getting negative, and that's evenoge-negative, and, basically, what I told everyone, it's happened, Now, now,

the question again again again again, until still there response positive from the government

about, yeah, ancaman lower rating. Because SNP is two day again again,

it's not giving us, but it's not sure. The request is met by the government. We've got

market in the hour you make out of warbua song, until the one week to the last 20%

of HSG. If we see, BIA Mati Matiant intervention see, we'll see, if we're volatility, if,

if market, not can't be that big up, rapid point down, it's, it's very B. PRAG POMAY fighting against the market,

if you're going to market, different point, right, or rampant to run. So, at all cost, B.I must be

trying to make up against RUPA. Temuan from MSCI. MSEI. MEDUU., yeah? Yeah,

valid just. If we look, how far not transparent, how much of the share of the share of the share of the share of the share of the share of the ratio up to 300, 400, 500, 500, that's, floating that's in about 5%

yeah, bandarism, in many, that's, yeah, it's not a negaturned from MSI, that's not, not 17, M.S.I. I can out of,

this, this, what, rating, our status of it, whether it's partanked as a mortgage market, or it's not to turn it,

but it's going to be If I, I'm sure he will hold, in the I mean, I'm not meantooking do you, I'm going to make, I'm going to look at the development of the next month to the pasty, so, so I'm not going to be able to be able to passiked, or whether or is

frontier, that. Now, this is so much, this is too, boss, yeah, because, you're better better, you know, the story is finished, but if you're going to be being aback,

that means, it's, I'm not percaya I'm with, with the authority, you, can, that, although they romack here, the romackan, and the other

Again, again, P2SK, how independent of the AI at stake, yeah, can, it's not a lot of , I mean, it's allah a lot, it's been making machine-dweat the government, that's, if you're in person, must, that, it's a matter of trust,

but, yeah. But if you're not, the P.R., that's the same as well, the, the, end, like independent, yeah, who's going to come to, boss? This issue from or the quatiration,

or whether that, MSCI, or is it, the LEMBAC, or more than the other than the other than, whether or maybe the quatiron

their can't be able to make sure can. That's all right, so, yeah. I mean, I'm all right in one in one-one- in one-out-a-

so, so, so, so, so, I'm going to make conclusive, yeah, I'm, you know, not,

not, got, get-b-b- -b-d-race-c-C-E-C, boss, It's already deep, yeah, merucked research, like from the way, from the way to see personial, from the way of the extent, from the way of the same,

they're all the same, maybe even hanky-panky-nia in the law, they've already nium, you can. It's a m.m. Hennie-Penki with regulator, can, can, be sure, can't, they can't chiemium there.

But, yeah, not sembaran-a-lap-a-it-it-a-lare-it-a-oh. So, what they've been-relared-out, that's-reli-in-reli-reli-reli-ccepted by the market, If that's If it's not It's just It's quite Why are you

Why are you? Yeah, Now this Yeah, Now this is Not getting better, it's getting worse and worse

That's If we're If we're If we're Maybe we're Doughly with rating agencies That's endangue

Outlook We're From stable It's negative It's Yeah, but But the last This last

Yeah The last over one year, this is many years, this is. Sam-same that's even men's curigacan boss. I think that's

also the people. We're not saying, let's say it's it's crediting emittance, you know, which is the shillan. Yeah, it's-inting-intang we

with fioration, with FI.Rasio 4759, that, that's actually when dot-com not bubble, in 2009,

in Wall Street, memang, yeah, sam-s-s-am related with internet, with technology when it to start

awol, miscellar online, IPI ratio 69, and so on Cisco up to 600,

but at time, but by the time, it's driven by the market mechanism, that, but and the liquidity

is much. And the liquidity, like, not be bad bad, too big, for the capacity,

but in this this is gonna, yeah, yeah, it's gonna yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

it's, That's one of the reason, I think. Now, this, in-ruth-you-episodic? Reversible or irreversible? This, if, I'm not sure, it's, it's not as far as far as far as. It's like, yeah.

Sorry, to say, Dad, yeah. In-matsing, this regime is very anti-business, yeah, it's not friendly, at least, to redneck business, you,

right? Now, we've, we've said, yeah, that operator, operator, operative, OJK Online, like, to grab,

Even if they're Grape, said, he'll come from Indonesia. Yeah, can, with the commission fee, the potong from 20% to 8% yeah, they're actually not covering operating cost, like, in the case of that. And the saliviness, we're seeing

with the ADDSI, yeah, that's the first, you know, they're thinking, wow, this, this, don't, don't, want to be WMMN, can, like BPPC, d'u-L, like, to becky-nuching

that, can, might be able to all, that, man, Well, many people are that, oh, don't, this, they're going to

minding, this, this is going to get over, so far, be WMN. Can be able. People are

people, even, even clarified so far with Douni. Kattain, we're just oversight. Oversight body.

You can, mean, we're not even keep-anky be playing with the Gankangang company in Singapore,

yeah, can transfer pricing, under-invoicing, that. Mackan, there's some also, if some-same,

that's-a-s- with sal-sou-t, with the timeang, it's rally like, but people are people who are afraid, boss, because what, because, because, it's here again, the paradigm of this regime

is, oh, adieu, the role of the state, now, this, it's important, yeah, so, so, that the state has a big, you can, if it's, maximum, like,

power it, can, you, can, , manateur economy, that, that, that, I think, I'm not wrong I'm I've been

also in TV this, how do you're how much people who are paying payback like Vietnam

like they're like 8% or 8.2% so, so don't too much government intervention because in

economy is in text book there's there's a another what we're yeah

yeah now. Yeah, yeah they'll get how much yeah, and government

and government and government to rule yeah where he has to give insentive

where where Now, this is very effective so, the government. We're not play a role at all. But,

but you have to know what role you play, you play, if we're going to play of the government of the institutional framework, that's incentive system. Yeah.

Amo export, like, you build a new industry. That's all how the government gave incentive. Yeah, to the entrepreneur, that's,

and we're just. And we're not. Yeah, can't. Yeah, can't. Pajag, fajicule, that's important. Instrument fiscal is important. Instrument fiscal is. Yeah.

But you look at this as as a narration anti-ponguosah or anti-oligarchy? Now, this, if you're going to be, I got the feeling, yeah, maybe the way, oh, you can kind of garrampo, keighan alam, I'm, right, now, I'm panish, you, can, like, if we're going to talk,

So you, So you, I'm like, you know, but you know, but also the other aroma,

it's, you're anti-business, that's just, like, not the arusiness just, like, olligarchy, like ojol,

because, the point is, you know, the paro-rachate with pro-business, that's, it's, but all right, this,

it's been can be able to be abacusiness one, you have to, you have to business. Because

who can't make a business, not riot, that's, right,

that's in government you cannot rely on. Yeah, can't make sure can't be

un- business, this is this is now, now, now, we're

now, we're about, how about centralization to get the

, and the this, this, this many, the area,

the area, the area, you can imagine, how spook it is. So, it is. So, if we

can't, if we , you, this is, that's the way, that's it's true,

the way that's anti-business, there's there's upay to centralization activity, right, right. Now,

is it, that's the way of their way to get decentralized that, without,

without the institution oligarchy. Yeah, that's something that not possible,

very risky, I'm not got chototah, hiririsisisis, yeah, yeah, can, think it's so easy, you know,

you know, like, here, it's not certain, yeah, we're not aware, yeah, you're investment banker, you know that, you know that,

if we're, we're going to build one project, which we're not can't be cash flow yeah, yeah, can, I can't be

cost-overhannion, yeah, hilarization, it's not gamponged, lo, boss, yeah, look,

let's justillan, yeah, the, yeah, the, end-un-un-un-n-cote-Hililisation, yeah, undang, number 4, 2009,

at that I said, I said, this killing, yeah, that's malarang export of raw mineral, right, this is dying, lo, the pemen of tambourne, they are not ready,

that, but there's not, there, investors also, and then, and then, irisatisasi, I mean,

I mean, this, this is, momentum-n-n-m-n- not, it's-n-a-sing. We're talking about value-ed-ed-ed-ed- But,

but if, if, but if, if, if, the investor-as-as-a- , what, I'm, pollution, yeah, this,

this, this, the point of, this, climate, yeah, right, the second,

value edit-in- to their boss. Right, right. Now, at the expectation,

this, if it was consortium, Antam, yeah, can, Pt, B,

and all the much, for, you, yeah, because, yeah, but it's

not, and I'm gonna be there, and I'm there, this, what, this, it's,

what, Lawesi-Tengara and Maluku-Utara, there's what the amissurizing growth. Pertumbuant, 20-30%, but the people are people. Because it's treasmered. This pencumaran that's very badgered, well, more than, if you're not talking about it,

I'm not-taught to be able to be able to. No, lion, not-bis-melt, yeah, petan-y-necathes-cum. It's not, it's not on behalf of the people, but for the, on-weigh-and-court, who has capital, like this, this is,

what are you? The country making the law under the law without memirk impact. With gampangang we have stopped

to export the matter we need, we have cast the value edit, then come out of

2009, number 2009, number four. I was going to come down to Kendiari at that.

Kendiary, you know, that you know, the kota hotel, Kaka, Kaka, Kendiari,

Kendiari, too. Kendiary, I, I'm going to befriend really. I'm going to puttook

all to. It's just pando pemandu lago. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha cah. To corban boss. Corban.

I'm, so I'm, I'm going to come down from Kendiari to Bombana yeah, and Naka,

Kualaka. I'm going to go nebrang to from Bambana with a pack attack eight-empt four-jam

to Kabaena. There's one on the kaki-kkkk the right this, the pantanan-in-canan-in-a-ment the pentagued, that, it's amazing, boss.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, but I'm nothaw boughed-a-abusack-upon-o-butt, I'm-en-sail-boat, why, why many-sac-bue bule, that? Yeah, that's, but... Padang, no, that poulow, ancour-anouran, pendulogne, more monnet,

than people, yeah, jam-and-lap, lamp-u-u-u-u-at-up, when I put-out-l-l-l-l-l-l-a-poh-l-l-l-l-n. Pahing, why, why, you, – Like fiber, that's, that trawuged that's small,

that's, but there's facilities. So, I'm going to be where they're in in-nip, yeah. Now, there's, that's, that

more than you want to talk, that's the lawutna. I see. Now, this, now, why I

mention that, the, I'm going to build a business, Comparative advantage is what, is it? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, everyone's like that. What you, what, what, what can't be able to do you want to be in, you know, there's a barter, exchange, with other than the other.

Now, we're inirisansi, manufacturing, ancher. I mean, you have to capitalize your nature. Yeah. I've put up to make green economy. Yeah, how we can't how much, that we can't,

that's a starting point for industry resuscity. That's the entry point, that's the entry point, that's, I'm, I know, I've been, I've done,

Packer No, 2. It's up to DUSA Besar Singapore, I'm going busy to make green fund

with the body economy. He's back. He's already on. Just call me. Nanty we. Nanty we

work with Indonesia to create carbon market in Asia. Beneran, you, interest is war-biasa. Because he

said, we're going to bea-bos, we're like we're living, we're like, we want utomut,

like, like what-a- about, you know how they play the game in the case like that like that. I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to have what I'm going to beaugh. But, although this minate-na but I'm going to beaugh

with Amazon. This, if I'm going to look, yeah, M2, money-breder, rather PEDB. Nex-5%. Forty-two-four-three-three-per-send, if you're not as 200%.

Pulusiness is a-huh. Yeah, yeah. So, if, if, if, not, we know-not-not-not-not-n't-not-nark, or not, not raric from out. Right, FDI's, this, we always I always talk, Asia-Tengara, to, every time,

down to $200 to $230 million. From that, Singapore can get in 100 to 140. We're probably getting, after this, 30 to 50. Malas ringing, boss. So, if I look at year-to-date

that, net asset position from FDI, that's down from $374 billion, US dollar, So that's a portfolio, Right, yeah. Yeah.

I've already I'm talking to back APM, who's all right, that's all right. That's not, not. Well, I'm going to be,

there's perpindition metode, yeah, on economic growth the data from BPS. Because, in the year, 2005,

K-1, 8,000, T-Tipa-Map Jamping to 5.12% in K-2, 5.04% in K-3, until,

the end-to-un-un-un-e-1-3-3-1. K-4, which, which is far as 1-1-1-1-1-1-1%. In-situ, there's many who are sure-you-a. Because many indicators like deflation

ter-jade, you know, mudic down 2,4-1-1-1-1-2, but, in quarter-k-2, loncat, 1-20%, yeah, bon-kare,

there's-a-purn-a. There-a-oh-old. Yeah, there-an-old. So, there, so, there, is it, it's already, this, investor, has been curious,

yeah, don't, you know, the number of, yeah, it's sasha just, not I'm gonna be

mrs. that'shouser that's just because it's not as well as under the indicator line, yeah. 5.11%

you think, it's not, I think of that you, you know, to get up, yeah, because we're

bank-dependent, yeah, we're not like America, boss, yeah, that's, it's very so, you,

it's very so, yeah, and I'm not, I'm not, not, Yeah, it's on itung-itung-itung my when I'm actually,

it's not to 4% if I'm not. That's, now. Now, the other, you know that, like, how government

gave up to give up dropping, with the spending to spending is about $22%, almost 181, yeah, Geroonjare,

31% Kianki on Kis. The question is, you can spend so much or not, for not, for Kian, yeah. Yeah, if you look, one,

right one, RIPN, 22% year on year, investation, $6%. Import, 7%.

Export justro in the bottom 1%. Trade surplus we're $90,000, $90,000, $90,000,

in the $1,000, I'm worried, negative, now, if there's if you're if you're

now, yeah, that's, that's, if we're if we're being made, people,

to be mucleptu attack on the currency, yeah, Yeah, can, that's, like, that's, like, that. What can't do you? What's going to reverse,

this, so, in the way. In the, in the other, this, can, this, can, this, can, narrasiness, this,

can, it's not, narasiness, not, I'm not. I'm really, I'm going to be all right, when,

when you're money when we're money, because, yeah, if they're, but, RANCA Def, yeah.

The second, also he has to be anti-haty, apocke it. It's not. And it's related to be

about the poor of fundamental economic we, and it's more more than it with the casein with the people,

there's, why Ferry not resigned and it's all, you, oh, you don't know where the problem is,

you don't know where the root of evil is, this, this, this is all because of B.N. B.

B. B. B. And, that's the back the program, from the B.

That's right the blame On BI, I mean I, I don't know, I don't too Stude. Yeah, can, it's really BISC, if you're gonna, BORAM, I'm, I'm gonna sitem air,

yeah, can, naikin'cuba, yeah, can, economic slowdown, okay, I'm, okay, I'd, go, door, that, and, that's, with lower rate, that, that's, but, now,

it's like, to give us, with P2, ESK, to include, to help, help, put, community, come on, man,

the, um, the, the, um, the, the, um, the, come right, C,

C, B, This is lonsat to 3. 7.5% But what what happened? Maybe it's not quite

they swap. Yeah. Yeah, she swap with cost 2.5%. So, we're kind of $7.57,

we've got casers and it's not cashers. This is still per 1%. But, but the problem

yeah, he swap. Now, it's notary, the netterer, he's, he can't be money,

he can be able, he can't. If they swap, it means he he's not percaya. And one

a second B.I. I have back in the dollar. Can be good. Yeah, casarance, yeah,

right. Now, this is too. So, so we need yield curve in, inverted. Now,

I'm quiteer nanty migraisy, this, from SBN, yeah? From Israel, migration to

B. Now, B.I. It's been burden. This, this is R.I. Can be

B. It's the , but, but the , RACITAN, MOWS. KELD, don't...

SBN, now, now, SBA, now, Kempa, if you're last, last, to 9 June, it's Kavit Ration, it's just 1-1-6,

Lime, 5%, yeah. Tresoury 10-0. Treasury 10-0,000, 4.7, yeah? No, if you're $3.000, in America,

masing. 4.5. Ah, that's Kempore. Incentive, what, for people for people? Kavana.

Yeah, not, there. Mara, not, there, when we can look a week, asing, out of

10T from the market from the other than we're in maybe we're making 25 basis

point, but it's not effect too. And the second, SCBI did don't

crack to 7. 57, but also with swap. So, if they're little,

we're we're going to grang. There's actually, there's if they're going to

want to because I'm don't know, down, leha, yeah, artiness in here,

I'm at all cost, I guess, like, I'm just so, so, so, so if dollar not drop that's got

the money, yeah, now in this all, yeah, if we're, the stunganer, yeah, yeah, what I'm

that's, did get, that, that's, because, because, desacan. Because,

desacan, this, this, I'm worried, like, the Mexico, boss, that's,

downgrade, too, that, yeah, same, this case, fiscal imbalances, self,

severe, and, authoritarian, the, same, authoritor, the, that,

to be how it's cornering, you know, to get in the government, you know, what I'm going to do you let's do you get into into into into law law-bank. You should be cautious, man. Because, in my own to my God, now, I'm not more than that, now, now, after that,

now, if he's just to gettoe to threshold in the above 140, now, this has become teckon to rupia, it's more, more than to munchy, and it's more than to munching what namagina, yeah, excuse me, not even to be speculative attack

that's, yeah, for people, like, people, like, so r, if you're not

paid money, yeah, short IDR, long dollar, yeah, you know, that. But,

this, this, this, this can, narrasy fiscal our, can be being,

people, to be able, people, to make-D, M.G, to make-D-D-Mere-PUTI, but-B, also subsidy energy.

If I look at the subsidy energy just, until the end up May, it's at 1,000 T. Yeah, that's

3-8, right. Now, then, so, so, anyone, the country

of the money, if it, if it's, the, the, it's, it's, it's,

it's, very ental in larasy fiscal. It's, not can be about, comeer-her-

name, did-e-ed-e-D-D-D-Sri, yeah, You know, come to Jakarta, Ocuk, who are expecting, he'd have to be able to get a purgay. Yeah, we, we're going to come, you're going to,

with conditionality, with, you know, I'm not going to be able to work my job, if, if not, this, people can't be able to be able to, just, but, you're right. But you're right,

it's not, but the point is the keybigestion. Now, the big question is is how strong our fiscalists, yeah, right, for six months, up to year to the year

to come on. Now, if we look, I think, I'm itung, from APBN, it's, to, deficit we're,

the first 40T, then, it's 1060T, yeah, in the one April, in the in May, naik,

like, 180T, I'm still not there, not there, not there catatant not,

is, whether it's net from restitution or still have there's a kind of

not a not a catatatann if you're not as a Rastusin, now this means what

this is spending we not controllable like, if you know, if you're 9093% you either

we're annualized in a linear that's it's 3.72 Sementara Sementraulta government will be jagged

in 2% but the but the kentatine is like it That's like, that's the letter that's under issue that

$8366 trillion, or if, if not salarro, for the payer that's for the money to end up deficit, like that. So,

I'm not really, I'm not I'm going to be able to be able to , yeah, and knowing that the condition

is as such, that B.I. It is cornered by the government, like, with the U.S.K. In your, hypothetically, how far you have,

or we have to recalibration, program program populist so we can stop the bleeding on the currency. Programme populace is, it's not wrong, yeah. If it's one, boss. If it's up productivity. Yep.

Yeah, right. Yeah, right. So, maybe, maybe dilemmaing is, as far as you want to end uproism, but as far as you also you also have to throw

kail in the layan, not a meal, not. That, that point. They can not have populism that's just like. Because it's it's really,

yeah, that program this program it can make up, uh, make sure of to the MKM

including merceikam, but it's the result of KPP can 5% only that's gonna be gulir, right for $190.

It's been badger, we see, we see what we see, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see, there's up,

ultra, it's, that's, from the fabric, not, not, not from the MKM, that,

that, that, this program that's the program, that's It's just to beckar money,

not to jack up productivity. If it's really, it's really men's jackup productivity, I think no one that's against it,

that's, MQI'm going, margin their naic, yeah, everywhere, supply chain jalan. Yeah, kind. There's not,

there's against it now, mashisatt to run to because, it's, because it's backer,

and it's, and it's, sumlations, lo, boss, it's a thousand trillion. You can imagine, 275 trillion, if you build

transport, system, it's that's great in Jabot Abel. It's like. Kempanket Listrik RELCETA and all right.

Yeah, it's to lowering logistics costs our or good. Or guru who were quality. Or guru that's

well, that investasysi. That's we're saying, this same as well, they're rationalize, if there.

If there are political will, I believe the only unit $20 trillion? 20, yeah? Palleng, so if

if next. So, if the program MBG did turnin from 335 to 20 market Bahu.

Batsy, gila, boss. Because, can focus it because of course, from the downgrade rating the mudis, as far as item

it, yeah, this, yeah, M.B. who's in the bachar-duit, that's, I, but, you can't get up,

got. Now, it's in the world rating agency, we know, the condition fiscal we, I'm gritty

here. Grot spending our, we're more more than growth revenue our, that's the

most of the thing, For example, if we're spending we're growing like 22% and all the I'm not sure you can keep going on like that if you're not, if we're not in terms of APN, in terms of APN, just 17% or 16% that.

Now, people are always memotting text ratio. I'm not yet yet. This is a matter not pantas medaping that's ratio that big. Because what? Every spending is not productive. More better you've got to bring in text. Tax ratio is low.

You give space to our data, you give space to us, yeah, private, spending, there's more investations if you're like to if you're

like to turn from 22% to 12% to 17% if you're from 12% that's that's the

we need a smaller government in the time of budget but yet but the FDA still and FDA only can't

be able to if there's the two attributes which first that's that's

the first that's that I'm that I'm sometimes capacity translation from

the stifety the risk. Risico can be upur, can be pringat-katt-

can be price. Oh, pass-ya-n- not? Now, to make the capacity translation,

want to not want, the Pendidak and STEM, especially, it has to get- not.

And this, if I look, Asia-Tang-A-T on-X-T in-Camp, the most the most

the same- to be-Mal-T-1-3 percent from the-sis-sus- to-c-c-c-c-s-c-s. it's going to be stem. In Singapore is just

36%. Indonesia, 22%. Vietnam was thinking to makeer to make-in conversion

the campus to 50% This is like that again, but stamp whatever it is is, it's

instrument. Siap. Yeah, right? Yeah, which is more matters like,

is institution. Yeah. I'll give a chance. Yes. I'm sorry, That's the time, rame, Habibing the kids,

to Delaf, in the last Belangue, in the West Belaruspace, too, look and Rome Tavard. So, when was, B, what,

Nurtanio, too, yeah, Nurtanio, DTSP. BK, ah, I, Lupa, where he,

they don't know what to do. You can imagine. You can't imagine. People have got upy, cate, school, you know, and from DELF

back, there's a project, not there's after, after 80s, yeah, can, awalt 90s.

Now, artini what, mean, is wanting, yeah, but the supply side you also have to

be a mass, yeah, it is necessary, but not sufficient. Yeah, if the institution yeah, yeah,

so, so, yeah, so, yeah, so much, yeah, yeah,

yeah, Laburatorium has There are. Pensil. It's not. There's not. There's not. There are,

they're in. They're not. They're not. Like, like, some of brain drainage. Yeah. That's, the biggest problem

in the country is, institutional problem. It's superstructure. It's superstructure. Bureaucracy, regulation, rule of law. Yeah,

right? So, so how much, to make insitutions? Because, this, this,

I'monging more structural again, yeah, and institutional building or institutionalization

that's just can't be if you're using with people who people who are people who can't be

smutututant just as much under nationality or patronase and also be based on meritocracy.

Exactly. So, you know you have competent and then must be to be

but if you want to talk hilililis institutionalization you, you have thinking this year,

You, if you, if you're, if you're, if you're, 88% from the capital of the home-tangue, not put a penitigone has one. That's. It's been, from subang to Merrokechia, there's, there's, there's a lot of,000 campus. I'm going to sing, yeah?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, can't be it? Yeah, can, meningan I work at the Google, or in Danantara, or in-hmm, Gaggaginia, can july more than 2.8 million. It's, TK, S.D.S.P.S.M.A.

It's also, guru, grudu-gurinia, if it's hard-uh. So, it's hard to movehackan product peddickan. And this is terminifestation inpiris, which where score pisa our,

and stem, for the kids of mack 15-year-old. We're inum-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-nobn't-nodddil-a. Yeah, I, yeah, that, you know, that the predidicant that has been

the trigger yeah, for the trigger, yeah. It's the future. Yeah, not long. But, but also, boss,

don't look, though, sometimes, when we're doing, into the culture, that's not to leapsed from the, you know,

that's not really. Oh, yeah. So, I'm able to talk, yeah. I'm not biased, yeah, school,

school, yeah, because, than, with school of there was Rican Belanda, yeah,

that berbendera, usually, ber bendera, I'mavena Catholic, whatever Karnasius, La Lusius, PL, and all the other, Mald, it's all right, it's all right, but, although, matter of the plerunum is same, but, but I'm sorry, yeah, I'm not biased,

yeah, we can't see. We're talking about, that's beingong, that, can't be able to be glanahin the Blanda. That, that's, from the school of these, yeah, it's been made, man, the landa, it's justas, he can get to get 10.

And he can lose 3.5. of Kuma'u'u'u. The of our school that's the right. I'm going to teckonka that I'm

from history. That's it, from culture, so yeah. So, I said, I said I said, I said,

kids, kids, five, six, time, time, to come in getting to

come back, again, this is the , I'm going to We're going to make one entry point that we can use as a trigger. Entry point,

we're back again, as a economic, I always always think, Ricardian. This is what? Comparative advantage what's what, who can't getchaired?

Suppose, if the idea I'm going to join, we can't dole our mother nature, we're going to buy carbon creditoric and we can't gaii-m-R,

the people, we can't do you, they're not worried the life. They can't callak-can-a-olak-an- the back. Not

be thinking Macymach, oh, the best of I'm going to not. This is starting point.

We need a starting point. Where? That's, if we need industrialization, then we have re-industrialization.

Nenegu, I don't even back in a whileikin just. Yeah, but where to start? And I'm going to get

climate change that's really farh, yeah, someday, someone will someday, yeah,

and I'm that I'm saying, I said, I know, I'm how, how much, we've been economic,

the end up and we can't we sell. And there's many cases, if you're the other from the people who are people, they're being back in back uprolet,

they've been, they've been aftering a ecosystem, even after you, yeah, who's deal with Exxon, with VW, with you deliver,

yeah, can, make sure that, but there's dispute about suffrained carbon credit, the debt's different. But at least,

it gives example, that it works. And they're gaji, really, so, so, so, if you have an ecosystem, area,

you bangun, That's, we're young people, so that they're, uh, it's, uh, for their, like,

they're gonna make tambac, that's, because they're not, because they're because they're gonna' umr, to make sure,

it's going to be, it's going to be, again again, again, again, again, how can't help help

um, the, um, the, um, because it's, not the multiplierer new,

just, we're just, we're going to monging the other, before we're coming again again, Ricardian, Comparative of Pantis

our part. Spakat. Spakant. So, so I'm I'm in the in the way, in the way,

there's some of the thing that's need to be new bough, secre. Yeah, can?

So, fiscal and in situational. But, but, I'll look, if we're making make

people, to make sure to make runcack in Rantai Nile, illisasi, want to

make chip like to make reusable rocketry, like SpaceX and all right. They're also they're also that Indonesia will be more better than today.

Right. Lusa, more than before next. Baxter. Baxter. Pursy. Yeah,

right. Yeah, can. Two years ago, I was invited by an American guy from American embassy. He said, he said,

can't get to be santae, somewhere we're to come. Samaraden, too. He was economists in American Embassy.

So, so it's called the stilash FDA in the same that's that's

like the chips like and stuff, things. It's one of their manpower. Sondangangang

for transfer of technology, can, if they're there's been power there's there's there.

And then they're to be Malaysia. With school enrollment that's more big, like yeah, right? Yeah,

right. So, that's what? What is the artin what? For FDI that's your manpower, SDM is not menpower,

that's how I can transfer technology if you don't have been able to office and you can't get to that it's a

much, but but again, if I see it is necessary but not sufficient. Sprat. Like, like,

we're trying option line where, I'm here, I'm going to Yeah. Yeah. You're right.

You're at least you, you're in mind. Spak. Now, this, you know, you know, not know, that you,

if you're not know, if you're like, that's the thing, the energy. It's very, that, it's

10 to 50 times lipat than Google, simple search. Oh, Ratshap, plus.

And, if you, you do perfilleman, you're, you're using platform like a

sort of, the, the, the, 1,000-kali-lipat. More than simple search in Google. Probleming in Indonesia

electrification is just 1,300 kilowatt hour per capita. And you, if you want AI capable, the banksa, has to have electrification per

person, to, minimum 10,000 kilowatt hour per capita. And I've got itung, to, to, to make from 1,300 to 10,000 kilowatt hour

per capita. Indonesia has bang up 600,000 megawatt, 600 giga. Oh, you know, if you're

if you're if you're about, you can't be able to build 5,000 megawatt per time. You need 120,

20 years. Yeah, you're with me I'm going to not there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that that's titic modernitas, titic modernitas that's enough for

we can be able to be able. Yeah, buter. So, So the denominator has to bepercept. We have to be able to live.

Yeah, it'siland it almost impossible, yeah, can get it overnight, almost not much, that. Muckaughan, I'm gonna' back again, to beckoned I'm justeran. Yeah, can, what we can, what's just, what, that, what, it's possible, it is possible,

it is not difficult to do, and the political will. Yeah, can I've been saying, we've known, we've got an economy hijal, and I've got to come from KLH, to mendorong the name's,

I'm making green fund too. I'm going to road show. Yeah, to big houses, like J.P. Morgan, Stanley.

If you're, when they say, well, they're going, not even bit by bit, they chip in, yeah, to build in,

where, ecosystem that's the same, the same, the other, it's done, you can, it's not,

about, you're about Wobototot Hut'I, and this, I'm the way, to back, you, you know,

you're just , you're just, to build food estate. I don't, don't, you're just curigangy

like this. You're like to give concessy 1,000 hectare, you're put in alat

alat, you babat huthaned huts you, you dole, then you say, and then, you're going,

my friend, it is not feasible, we don't have got irrigation, logistic javut,

you can't, so, the project like this. I'm not you. I'm skeptical about, that's something

that's something and many minate-neuts yeah. Comear back, I'm back English,

which is in Malaysia, he's actually beques investment banker in Swiss, yeah, and he'd

come to get to be here he said, he said, he said, this, this, like the country

and the country like Greece, that they've got tax because they have been carbon credit,

yeah, shipping industry yeah, you can't do, you can't get up funding from

their America. Yeah, you're with Fera like, yeah, for certifat yeah,

basically it is doable, boss. Oh, yeah. But, but you're ,

That's, well, Mimpines, wow, this, more this, yeah, can, that's as far, the world,

and not too, coming out of the ground at the end of the day, this, this is a matter, you have the nature, you have the mother nature. Yeah,

can't, single, the same thing, you, like, how do you, as a bag, I claim,

I've been, supreme carbon, credit, that, can be so, that's been it, that's good,

that, we're goody, bad. Gaudy, most, now, I'm supposed, go,

so, you talk about the re-industrialization. Masan the reason is. We're not going to be. Yeah, right? We're not trying to know. High-risk, we're doing superstructure.

Now, now, how do you know, akal in it? Yeah, can't go backeroying. But, from, from, using multiplierer.

Yeah, we're going to national capital, one of the same one of the mangrove. Yeah, mangrove.

Yeah, in Indonesia, there's, there's, there's, there, yeah, we're,

we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're all, we're peta-in,

it's sequestration carbon just, colon, one hectare to one ton.

Yeah, so if three-and-juta hectare, that's three-and-gigaton. Gila, gila,

gila. Gila. And the emission per, yeah, yeah, we're going to be able to capitalize it, boss.

We're not a lasan to miskin. But for it can be monetization, there's accountability, has had to

measureability, have to responsibility, There's a verifiable. This, this, this, this,

this, back to point in the I mean, I mean, I'm going to be going to be here, please beresin'en

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's,

yeah, this, you know, gotta, yeah, come on, man, yeah, yeah,

can, for everyone, it's win, it's win, yeah, yeah, can, it's,

yeah, people, like, people, yeah, yeah, like that. Like that

we all right we're not has to know contouring like that this this is how this

how the number if you think you don't you have been you have not

not currency currency then then index economy I'm

so outlook my outlook my look look if fairly

speaking yeah I'm not not short-term beris but too

a long-term bearish I'm sure, like, we can't like Apindo just, you know, 50% of their members, you know, 5 years, that's, right, not can't CAPEX, like,

yeah. 67% from them said, I'll be able to be back, yeah, I'm not going to be recruitment, yeah, I'm sure, I can't make partanking

career one, I, that, not make, not working PHAC, that. Now, from ush, we've got, got got got

a gamborant that they're not too happy, that, yeah. Now, now, we're going to look, the government also

not, like this way, not comply with the tutton rating agencies regarding the APBN the power and the power

later will be downgrad. And this is a bancana, boss. Because you turn one node more than you can't even again,

you're uncat again. That's convincing that's long. It will lead, you can, to me, to me,

to underinvestment nantin. We're not putting, yeah, can, asing that we I'd have to have come back.

That's, well, gilled because, wow, do. Gila, really bad, too. That's, can't be able to talking about getting to get come from taking as well as well. Now, why?

The problem is, again, the matter of, the problem. Tate, institutions, and, like, happy. If you're not happy, if you're just,

the road in the bececk, yeah, can, jembatan, it's that, it's, it's, it, infrastructure, that, you, you, you, tarot, you're all right,

that, but if you're, but if you're, with bureaucracy, rule of law. You're buying you set up a business in this when you have a dispute with other companies, you don't know. You can, you'll be able to layaning

with okay, that. It's all that level that same. Apolaguer with the government, miscellar. Oh, boss, gritty boss. Asing, boss. So, I'm really really, I'm going to look at Indonesia. This is something that's impossible, yeah, I can't. But I'm going to be

back to give you. I'm going to look at all the numbers, look at all the institutions like this, they work, Jiao from norman norm that you say accountable, yeah, right,

responsible, all the same much, what, what I'm going to get, you know, look,

look, look, getting, so, the, kind of, kind, that's the

power of people, you can't get about people, yeah, you know, where,

after democracy, this, you, yeah, soarto, jato, this, be bondong,

you, you're, you back, you, but you, you don't I don't know, you know,

can't be able to work without, there's gandangangann with tatarant elite who made a lot of

people, not much. Now, so on the other side of the coin, in one of the person, you know,

okay, fine, oligarchy, but you look, you look, on the other side of the coin,

wow, they can bekerjap this, that's, now, structure, power,

so, so, so we, the power structure, in the power structure, in the power structure,

in community that we're as such, it's, it's hard, it's hard to we're making repacking

that's because, yeah, ran-sicking, so, that's, that's, that's,

not gamping, not gampang, merobhan, that, then, they've been also, we're also

we're going, we're just there's a person, if you're over-re- people, they can,

but, but, but, now, you, now, you, you,

prasulang, right? So, that's the if you were if you're if we're looking if you're

name of socialism with Chinese characteristics. We're looking at Russia, communism

with Russian characteristics. I'm look at two the country that as institution

which authority political, that bullet in atas capitalists. Diband

the other which where capitalists in a authority. Right, not be able to

say it's about the one of the one of the one of the one of the people are you think that's

called put plutocracy capitalists in a part of authority. Mugin- not, what's now is here

is this is to put in the other capitalism. But in the Hongk with Russia

it there's beenjambat an socialists and capitalism. between communists

and capitalists, so that road economy is perputar. Yeah, that's. Now, maybe not in Indonesia there's

there's aspirations to put in notepatting on the capitalism, but maybe we'll even to chapter

where the chapter which which where the main, the penjambatana an authority and capitalism.

That's, yeah, if I, see, the, yeah, after we look,

we're looking 25, 26, 20, up, 30, 30, yeah,

reformation, If I'm going to look at. From data, data economy, we're talking about... 28,000. 28 years. We've looked at how... We're too, bro. Yeah, sector that's been...

Sectoring, manufacturing, it's drop-throughs, yeah. Value-Edict, manufacturing, that drop-throughs, yeah, trending down in a way... ...sharer systematically, yeah. The second, how we're more extractive, the fact-not-in-it-cuit-cuit-cuit-cuit-cuit, not-it-cout-it-bath-battle-bara, nickel. This, this, yeah, if, if, you can...

... Yeah, if, if, you can... There's A.C. Mogul, you know, why nations fail. That's extractive, all. Now, in this. And not there's institutionalization. Yeah, beto.

Yeah, beto. Acemooglu. A.C. Mogul. I'm not. A.C.M.A.A.A.A. , right. impact, from the economy that's underlundle can suburb day alam,

that's sifting, this is fact that is it, that's making up and that makesaiding it. And, that's why I'm going to belanda. In the Belanda, it's to make unwaughable when we're

getting to be back again, the world of the world's our country and that's human rights and that's

natural, that's all right, that's from the matter, you can't imagine, we can imagine, we can't

imagine, we're people who can't discriminative by the German, you don't, if you don't, be able to be radan,

you, you, you can't be able to get access, like, people, who can't, who can't, people,

we're going to, politic, yeah, mulaline, you know, with cases of Pertamina, you know, yeah, it's all about such, hard of money, nectat,

like we're gonna'etka, when we're gonna'etan, with $12,000, well, all, and this other, godaan, yeah,

can't, the power structure in in a country, that's a , and this, after we're jato, with,

with blasan part of political, that, the, how to grab power, that, Yeah, not there, too, how to build the nation, like, how to build the nation, like.

You know, I mean, maybe there's always other, who, the name's social, that, the name's personal, that, where's, that. You, now, now, but, man, that's, that. Now, if we're, yeah, can't social map or political map,

we like, disco, co, not optimist, yeah. Artini, you make you make sure. Like, yeah, after we're, yeah, we're making reneeking economy, that, yeah, everyone, you know,

want to rinsicking, like, project in Mar, what, What, what are the other, so. So, if you look at the point Indonesia emas, from the kacemata that are different, catamata sociologists or kacemata politic,

not just kacemata economy, economy, supposedly, the jackawand it's also, the way, you know, how you're justified, if we're manufacturing, that's true, and so much to make endangeload of land.

NERIEW, bro. Neri. Why, yeah? Asak, as, technocrat, so as can, technocratiae is to be a species that's

that's rampuna. Oh, now, now, you're really, now, now, if you're better,

yeah, yeah, yeah, better than you're error, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's an endangered species.

Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, and casien, not,

and, we're not. Yeah, we can't be backcha with, this, yeah,

who, yeah, who can't the landerer of the Venezuela, Venezuela,

with populism all the same of Chaupes, now to get them. Yeah, right, he nationalized all the business.

Or supermarket I'm being nationalized that. That's, that's, that's, that's different. Yeah,

talking, Tionk, Tionk, to, I'm here a rannibalit to, they're more

more than, not to group elite. And, and they're more able to be better than

democratization public goods. Yeah. Jal more than many than many democracy in the

democracy Terminifestation in what is distribution suburbution and the public goods

to get used health, chastraan, intellect, pedic, the value moral, the value social. But in

the Hong Kong, it's clear. You, you're sick. MRI CT scan in pre-exha doctor at least $17.

Yeah, in America, you've been to get to $1,500 dollars. Yeah. Disit,

can you can't look at, they're jago redistribution now it maybe be being able to

be able to get a lot of democratic. They're not. They're still. System politic not autocraties.

Yeah, it's kind of democracy that's barat. Democracy is service product of barat,

right. The person people people can't make sure mersekan They're not

not making concept. They're not. They're just just think good

governance versus bad governance. Exactly. Exactly. So it's not important to democracy, democracy, so that's the result. That's the result.

That's right. Actability of Karachi. Exactly. Now, that's why you know, in fact that in 40 years, he's going to get commiskinan, 200,

people from the jurang of commiskinan, so, yeah, can we're going to talk about but China is not a nation state, yeah.

China is a civilization state. Yeah, so it's been, it's too, the car yeah, that's been the same way from 5,000 years

that's only, just one, I've got one, the stilagely one, one, uh, one, uh, one of the past to 18 to 19, and then,

the bulan of English, yeah, can, become in Japan, it's just, but now, root-n-u-u-d-uh-u- 1840. Yeah.

The century of humiliation. Yeah. The century of humiliation. It's a marraged really, they're really, and we're really, and we're really,

when when Hong Kong back to China, we don't know it's not yet Hong Kong to Kep Farrising, Ketka, Kuzhen. It's Metsonk, Monson.

Di-antrin'n't-pacetyl, bro. Anjit. I was like to in downtown financial district that new, on-tas-to-drawn, gantry,

got to, gansering, getting to make, food, and, and stuff. G-old. It's like,

it's like, Gila. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And,

Then I was going to mobile from Shenzhen to Hong Kong. It's like going back in time, backward, to Hong Kong. So we've got to look at transformation, this gila, gila. Gila, that. But they, they're investasi, yeah, fullest's not. From within, from the world, but talenta's gila.

Now, this, if you're going to mention nation building, yeah. I'm, I mean, this is ring to be a lot more than, there four ways to build a country from the from the

part of the part of the brain train. Brain train to be in Japan which you if you look if you look

if you're not even school in the world in the world. Because school in the land

country is good. Product pedicana is great. So this indigianity of talent

is more bizarre yeah. The second brain gain in Australia. He's bukabintu

talent from all the world. Indonesia, India, Tionk, Bhutan, Singapore, surrude, Souru-Dateng, surrida, surrida,

the third, brain circulation. Tionk. From 2007-8-up, given more than 9 million. Majority is to learn STEM.

Majority is back. Pullang, he'd bea-D, Shawme, and line, and line, line. Now, the 4, brain linkage.

India. He's more than $7 million in 50 years, the majority

cannot go back bro, there's not in the pastar baru. Now, but some

some of the Satyana, Della, Sundar Pich but every day manakangang yeah

to get the Koujara to Kalkuta. So, it's just there's just there's been back,

this is bachach if you're going to move back, to be you can't be able to brain gain, brain circulation, or brain linkage.

If I see who's here looking at it, brain gain, and brain circulation, because brain train we're not there. Diaspora our people, that's not more than 300,000, in the 50 years. Do you say? Tionkok, 9,000, India,

$7,000. So, if you're going to talk comparative advantage, how do we compete with a country and large we're bascala, we have to mowlap and talenta. Yeah, that's because I

think I've to go back to the nature. Because, what, basically, capital in the very first place if we're using our capital back back back human yeah, can we call, boss. Now, what's the nature this? How much we capitalized?

It's easy, it is doable, it's doable, like, as a entry point to build up to human capital our, what you, say, man I'm going to be school, I'm agate, one, my, I'm gonna be

with a professor from China, I'm saying this, yeah, if it's, if you're doing, we go, it's just 40 minutes. Yeah, can, one class, yeah, he's going to go tol up,

cupipis, not back again. Really, right, but that's, good, so much, blood,

yeah, well, in the way, in the curusan, my, the muridna, is just about, not much,

that, if you're gonna, money, $2,000, I'm gonna, call, E, Adam Cian, here,

you, you're gonna, you, come, you know, boss, I said, I'm,

I'm, I'm gonna be able to be able to , and, to make, econometrics, you can, paddhalla you know

that's the friend, you know, that's that's, at the time, yeah, at the time,

yeah, at the time, it's, it's not much, you can imagine what, the time 10, he'll be able

to beck center. Gile. And, that I'm beingung, why they, I'm,

I'm going, I'm going to get to be just, boss, the time, yeah, yeah,

yeah. In fact, Because it's kind of, if it's not going to be into the same thing, they said, they're going to be able. Hasiline is like that, boss. After the time 10-m, the place in the place

tidurey, I'm puttump-tump-took, to, must be able to learn to center. There, no, is there, is mentality like that? Cajan. There, boss. He's from where,

from? From China? Now, I, too. I, too. I, I, can, I mean, I'm going to be sure to be sure to be able to beckxia. But, but,

they're being made, they're talking about, that I'm going to beauchin, it's the kweera-usahannes, bed with the other than the wiseries that I've seen in Silicon Valley.

If you're intersection on research that in the universities kren, Berkeley, like Stanford or what, with,

so, jay, Google, Microsoft or, or, you, Now, if you're not

university that's great that's working research, but what's there, there's a bigran from Wuhan, from Beijing, from Shanghai, from Chongqing,

from Cheng, from. It's their attitude if I, if I was used to work in Wuhan 10-jams a day, if I was in Shenzhen, I was working

14-shams'a-hari. Now, you'd buyangin, migran that from the country to Shenzhen-in, that's been adieu.

So, so they're so I have to do something more, more than more than you

get better. Competation. That's what you look you look you look at B.Y. You'll look all right

product products product of people. Yeah, yeah, and I think I'm not they've got

that's that's quite. That's kind of the world because. Buda Kirtya. Yeah.

Now, if I'm know, if you people, 88 percent not put Ponducus

not put the education has one. They can't nuntick three attributes one, one, ambis,

two, imaginations, three hockey. This is only can't be done by guru. But if

if we're not the gaij $2. Bohwat, bro. Kaka can't be. Because you

have to invest in guru. If you only were just to give us two. If you're

maybe or the possibility or can't best, guru who recruit, that quality not as to

it's too. And he can't not be intig imagination, ambisis, and I'm always going to

talk about to be acusisi, not with only only doa and bakar lil lily. If you

do you, latian one, man, bowl, muckul. You'll be able to

get to semi-final. Yeah. Will hokey when final when Mucul. Sorry. Silakan.

Yeah, if I'm look like like this, yeah, from the history of not to let's let's how much the root problem

when you don't can't even can't be left from system penjazzhan, because, can't do you just priiii,

yeah, the glintir of people, yeah, can't just be to go to when you're not going to

ringrat, not can't get it. Begitu we're making, too, 90% you you must beut

hurried, look, yeah, in 41, Now, the end up. What's the work is like now.

Until now, it's more this. Quantitters, the amount of, there's school, or there's there's a while

because I'ma Marrott, like this, yeah. Sorry, that's Saird. Alphamard, now,

campus, cumpus, cussmph, yeah. So, yeah. So, Amarat, Mawrard,

Mast, Mawrard, Mawrard, Mawrard, yeah, just to put on endomii just, just, yeah, yeah,

yeah. Artin' what, is, also, mentality our mentality our, yeah,

not we're talking about we're going to talk about people, yeah, you know, if you're in

minding people, I'm not, you know, I'm in the people, I'm gonna gojerk, gojerk,

go back bohobob go ahead, I'm gonna get LAT, more easy, that, you know, I'm, man, can't,

man, maybe, ask, man, you know, yeah, no, no, no, man,

yeah, yeah, so, so, And, rata, they're berendip, if I'm going to be a bit of whether,

it's what, you're buying, if you're being, if you're trying, to work in formal sector, berkringat, that what quality of, boss?

Yeah, right. Now, not, I'd repas, at all, I'm still, when I'm still, when I'm just, too,

when I, I, to get room my, to, was, every day, that's,

that's, that's, that, that, that, that, that, that,

Why, why, you know, not modernize with, you know, you can buy mobile from Japan, though, to mutterabuntary in tarampas. Now, they're, I mean, the thing, there's a job for them. So, it's not productivity, you know, the matter of the carejaan.

Now, this is a lot of mindset in-allel-lola social capital, that, I'm saying, now, that's just, that, right, When When I was chief

economics in B.I. I asked you, the S. One, what? I'm economy,

Pa. I'm not say to be campus, you know, that's the one. You, the S.

I'm a math, I'm notherstic, ah, the data the data can't be able to gettory.

The economy, economy, not get to, that's not, that's the, right, right. Yeah,

but. Stem. that's yeah, that's the problem. If you're going to get to people,

they're making it's not or one. But if you know, the same, which is the same,

the same, yeah. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm doing I'm doing to learn

to get to this, we're going to investasas abysabes on the stem. But, but the

buddaya, care, that if, if, that's, that, that's, it's,

that, that, it's, Pemerdayan. Yeah, not want to go-gouru, bro.

Yeah, but come back again this. Yeah, can, it is nice to have a concept. Right?

This time, this time, this concept. Yeah, right? Yeah, the, yeah,

the most, yeah. Yeah. The most that's the concept, yeah. Because, I'm not,

I'm going to be the thing, you start small. I'm going to say, if you're, You know, man,

you're doing MBG. Why don't you try with 10 school? Yeah, right. Task case, too. Yeah, can. You're piloting

first. If you're going to be able to scale. 3T. Dool-la. 3-T-d-d-lul-la. Yeah, can, then you can't be able to scale. That's also

with the education, yeah, can. I'm not able to all out across the board to do not make a perubbakan. Not can't.

Scalalalalanyuble. You need a sample. Yeah, can, one, two, school, do, to make school un-gulat,

but serious. Not just only just school is an end up because it's questionable now.

Now, this starting point I, the necessary condition and it's sufficient condition. Masala

execution, boss. If the problem concept, I think we can discuss until wherever, but the

problem is once you have a concept already, it is nice, it looks great. Now,

now, now, now, it's up to turn execution. Now, This is here

will be there's often you build a project that you'll look at you look at you look at you look at

you look at you look you look the way you look not look constraint there you

got constrained there market constraint there regulation consulate this this

this constraint this you have to sum up why why the government chenrung

bombastis we we're we're thinking the thing is Indonesia is

we're There's a co-cahion of the world. But this paradox in Indonesia, like the world of the riots, and the same. Yeah, that's kind of, yeah, it's not ever chari-hary-hary, but you've got

never seen what, one, and how to beaic it. Yeah, can, okay, unit the concept. And then, that's a concept. How to execute that? So, so, you know,

we know, we're doing. We're doing, we're doing. That, you know, lag, that's. This is the same thing, but, men, but, you know,

disease is it? what? Discsing, yeah, back again again, if you're talking culture,

history, yeah, that's all all, you know, norms and values, yeah, that's all

plays a role, which in the same, the software that, if you're if you're about,

but if you know, you've been, you've got able to get bit bit you've got to be

through a operation, silent operation, that just a step forward to, in my

Like I said you, I was going to eager I'm going to get a good, I'm going to be a position, I was in, if you're going to ask you, boss, if you're going to be able to get into my dreamtaker, I just want to be able to be doing docent. I don't know, I've got to be able to be perbanked, because I,

I, I've got, I'm going to be garrison, I'm going to be practitum, so, I'm going to be pedicum, so, but when I'm got to come to this, I'm amazed, you, man, You said you must be dreaming, man.

You, what do you? You, what I mean? Matrylampo. He said, man, got to be able to, man, get to be able to be. I bet I'm going to be dorsen termal, I'm going to. But, but, you know, but I'm beinggum, you know? You, imagine? I'm going to be.

Tiberi, upsoning the other, before, you know, before, did not be able to be absent. This, man, man, this is a guygot. All right, this is just dregnob. Yeah, this is just a bit of man. Can, bingum, no. You can't, you imagine Mahasis,

when you see the absent. In Goa, in the Belanda, you want to go back, you want to come back to go, you're going to, you're going to, who's, who's.

The result. The result. The result. You know, don't kirk baling, not pern't. Eamang, you,

not what you're going to be russin you, you, yeah. Yeah, sometimes, while professor's luke, you, you, right,

after college, you, you, you can, we're having, we're, we're, we, we, we, , we,

we, we, Like, there's not we're going to like the way to know, I'm going to no, I must call them to,

because I'm going to come in line, let's get in some and I'm going to come in some. If I'm going to men, that's the

distance. Oh, yeah. Yeah, same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know,

my, my, Nama go to bro. Yeah, too, bro. Yeah, right. This is, this is a better, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, go to the gap.

Yeah. But, this, bro, this, this, back to economy again, back to fiscal, yeah. This, can, barue only can't be can't-tankany

peace, deal between Iran and America. Mm-hmm. But I'm still not percaya. Backal damay. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, if, if we're, right, the, if we're, premise that,

the notpastien on the miscar can, it's not yeah, be able to

now, this, this is $70 per barrel. $1. $1. $1,

that division $6. $6. I'm still still even be able to look at money that

from, this program populace, but not security of supply for BBM. Ibarat kata, this,

apis just, if you, yeah, if you're not, you and I'ma either, you know,

or I'ma, but it's a problem is the market, production is this, consumption is this, transportation

has to be truck, to, with diesel. If you, not, if you, if you're

not, if you're there, the, can't, the, can't, the economy

can, can, it, am it, amit, But if it's But if we're At least we've got prepared

Buddha that strategic reserve our stock our stock our BBM, it's just pull-a-hary Yeah

yeah yeah, if you're going to be back back to the deal between Iran and US from the

from the market because I'm not I'm not yeah mechanism passar can

even even even suppose it is a deal and you can rely on that it is credible the deal is

yeah but I not I'm not sure market this actually is it's like this. From drop from 120 to

80, they're already makeir, yeah, come on man, this, this is not going to be more than go buy. Artini what, equilibrium yeah

not still be at the other 80, not back to be able to be world level, to 60, yeah,

now in this it's just be worried, you should be worried, yeah, that, quite, not here the APBN we, in case

we can make the scenario that, if, if we're if we're the price of oil post-war, this is in 90, because people are

stocking, yeah, because it's not having, this, because, because, this, I'd, more than, I'd be more than,

because, can, be made up, and, and the higher than high, and Iran, also, has, got, and I'm

having a, the amount of money, it, because, because, it, deteriorating, they've had financial condition,

though, that's, the war in Iran in the past, approval, more, more, look,

the amount of, $1. Now, back again to that, boss, yeah, gung, I worry. Now, now, there's cases, casas blackout PLN, yeah, can, you? Although, it's not,

we're not, we're not sure, we're not sure, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, yeah, if you're gonna be, yeah, if you're gonna be able to not a problem,

yeah, this, this, this dollar in-ant, PLN, quite, not, yeah, he can, they've been in time of dollar, if they're dealing with IPP,

yeah, and, when it's gonna refu-in-u-ya. Maran, also, you know, maybe vacations, depok, or whatever,

like, on blackout, three-jam, three-jam. It's actually too, it's not. It's not.

It's about me, boss. This, I'm really, really, it's spooky, though, because,

because, because, because, the, light, this is a common, man. If you're,

for us, the idea, yeah, yeah, it's, you, it's just, it's just,

you, you're, existential. Yeah, existential. Apal, because, industry,

boss, if they're not got to supply, succour, if they're making sure, if they're to make sure, Yeah, it's kind of, where it,

the machine I have 24-jambut, like a smelter, that's, that, not-boulde mat to, you know. That's, you know, that's, gilh, it's got in.

It's not, like, like, like, when it, back to BBM, the end of, the end up,

she, said, say, he said, yeah, I can, I can, just,

20 days. It's, it's, it's, yeah. Neri. Neri. Neri.

Yeah, I, I, yeah, if, yeah, Asia-Tengara, it's production

2,000 barrel per-hary. Consumcy 5-6-0-0. So, importing 3-4-0. Yeah, yeah. But the more

more than, Asia-Slatan. India, Bangladesh, Rihanka, Pakistan. That, that, was. That, it was. And,

production is about 1,000, production is about 1,000. Yeah. Yeah. Now, this, almost, it's almost, yeah.

So, yeah. So, if, I'm thinking emerging markets. It's it, amit, amit, if you're default, that's the

possibility, that's the kind of, that's going to rambat, too. Not too, we're going to

see, we're going to be the country other than other than the currency. Ruppie, that, from,

the last, the last time, I saw, the, it's similar to, that's the, 90% it depends

from the world, we know, we know, we're taking, like that. But India, and India is big,

big country, you, big economy. That Asia Southan, two million, the people. The world. The world,

is there, it's just 100, you know, from there, you're being seen, this, yeah,

I still, don't yet , there's, same. Same. Yeah, we're looking,

the, the most, the most, to Karina, yeah, it's only two or a couple of but now now that's

not ever after that because because industrialization to and the and kinescian.

Yeah, if I look, the agarant on the $2. $2. NATO and America also, it's

$2.2 trillion. So, so, so, it's, it's, very good. This is the last half-jamb.

If you're in a half-jamb. If you're going to be able to be it, the money from out of not not-massiz-chaia you have to befinancialization in the room fiscal as far domestic. Ascara ideology,

you're not with pettacetackan? Yeah, this is not the problem of recetaken uang, while you pay money, it's right, now in the global financial market. Yeah, right, that's bad, boss.

This, can, we can't get into capital control. We're not free, like China, like China, China capital control, to great tax. We're free. We're not going to capital, capital capital capital capital capital capital coming,

it's going to come, and the reason, the BSI, B.I. And B.I. And B.I. Mo, B.I. To be able to bring money, to end uplaffisit.

Wow, boss, Benchana, boss. Benchana. Perciary, you can't dollar can't, you know, dollar can't

go to 5, you can't because what you print money, you don't know where to go or you bond the money not, you

don't make sure, you're better with modern money three theory. I go to grade 10, I'm at the I'm at least,

I'm still, I'm still, I'm sure, not the same, the bank central, chat up but for but for projects

that can makehers this thing. This is building something productis. It's

kind of, it's is the modern monetary . That's do not against. That I'm not against.

But this, you know, government print money for backer duet. Yeah, can, who's who is who is sure, boss? Yeah, can? So, if I'm,

look, look atop in the current, right, the aura of it, that this government so la-a-oh, make an effect anti-business,

yeah, it's not friendly to redact business. It's notar when the President said about Ojole, that's the time, the commission

viny from the election, but I'm not not sure, I'm not sure, the country other, that's all, by you know,

by President. I'ma-pa-Presi, this is not critical, yeah, that's not, I'm not to know when it's not when I'm going to if you're not

like, you know, kind of who's like that like that. So, I'm going to get that. So, this, there's problem again again, yeah, in software

yeah, if you're like, hardware, yeah, the hardware, you, because it's getting, transportation,

system, but if you're If you've got to software, to regulation, bureaucracies, security, rule of law, corruption, addux, that's not gampang, oh, that's not gampong. Orangue, it's not going to. The people are better. People are better.

Exactly. And meritocracy. So, if I'm going to look, I'm going to bea-lis-bagnet, yeah, five times to the time, so, so, yeah, so, even, there,

peer press and then the power the president that's, it's not even though, although we're

not sure, with this is the reinman, with technology to cabinet, it's not too very, because there's trauma.

Yeah, can, five years, we're not a lot of, we're not. We're not. We're not.

For the time, 100, that's, if you're not, yeah, de Kamanu. Like, you've been,

like, if you're, it's Now, yeah, it's like, you're not gampang if you'd get to one note to non-investment grade. Now, now, I did you go belong to, you know,

who's telling you, who's presenting, they have paper, getemned, and a pension in three the country, UK, Belanda, and Germany. The matter they've got non-investment grade, Boats.

So, de facto, it's non-investment grid. If, umpominy, if the SNPy, you know, that's dejura, it's not, non-investment grade.

And it's not It's not very It's a great It's a long, long time to get it back and FDIMLUSU Semantara we don't know any final comments

Yeah, my final comments Like my final comment, see, this gini just like, Yeah, now, the government, yeah, stop-lapakard the point is, I think, it's, I'm gonna

institution that, and even credible, that, and the second, yeah, if it's real-asel, cabinet, So the economy, like, in the cabinet, with menopatting people who who really are people who are

people who are people who have credibility and track record for investors, that's my point. Thank you, bro. Thank you, bro. Thank you. Tremant, that's very late to you in, a person economist.

Thank you.