Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Habib Husein Ja'far: Lebih Percaya Teknologi atau Spiritualitas?

Episode Date: November 3, 2021

Saat virtualisasi menciptakan jurang yang berseberangan dengan realita, ada jarak antara ilmu dengan kebijaksanaan, dan antara agama dengan spiritualitas. Saat itulah kesadaran berteknologi perlu diimbangi dengan kesadaran untuk hidup bermanfaat bagi seluruh makhluk. Ini adalah kehadiran Habib Ja'far yang kedua kali di Endgame, setelah sebelumnya sempat berbicara di bulan Juni 2021 mengenai kesalehan akal dan sosial (dengarkan di sini: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4ytC5Krw7GcVlWmAJKyOd6?si=023cd905889c4514)

Because that I say, I have jihad algorithmatic, or revolution of algorithmic because we're too now, it's too much to end up toaddle that algorithm that's even, even, on the titi that's extreme,

what then, the other than philosophic technology, how modernism, which one of the product the other product the other one is digitalization,

to alienation from the self. This is an endgame. Hello, Taman, we're coming, Habib Hussin Jafar al-Hadar, our friend our Bondooseau.

Abib, thank you, Thank you, Thank you, we've got to talk about a few months but I don't know, I don't know, I'm going to go back,

and I'm going to I'm not because Paquita is a person person person bad. And it's very important

in the wauwantara in era where the wawangara it is reducts and degraded

and depredasi so demikian sometimes there are people I've said I've got the title,

tunnel and it's done done or that's long before, he will put on the other, to get to get something

he's trying. So, he's the way of anewanceran that as object, not as subject. That's what I've learned from the one of the

one of the because he's a good. Belial it, he rewetka, not even to moton the other as a bit of the

not-penting, whatever's important not important, because he's that's been that's the that the way that the same

the sign that it's never never be a but really buttut so that the geta-graban Wow

thank thank you but but but I'm just to I'm trying to topics topic that we've got

been able to go-sook. We're going to be a bit more than how we can't be in how we can be homoerati one-same I'm trying to book it in context how we've we've been democratization

or be democryation. After the last I'm I'm looking at process democratization this is a little bit more than how much platform digital, that can embouhacken asymmetry,

information. How much platform digital, whether or other, can't make up-being to bea-bebasan berbiccara with amplification algorithm. Now, we're be a great-pentingan, to be in order to repug democracy

with the health. Now, to the depot, how, in the way, And what has been what's been happening and how about to the way to be better? In the beginning,

I read some of the book at that time. There's a lot of digital that can be being a room public that's new and healthy. people from Matta Frankfurt in Germany,

one of the alirate philosophat, that Habermas, one of the most of the most of the longest about this. The point is there are room public that's safe. It's been in a form of cafe-cafe. Where, if, if, if, if, if, people are being said in a certain,

and sehat about about about the same. Tampanapot, without any of anything that's more than, Mourney, so on person per person. And

the backangue Rueang digital is in front to be a public that's safe. But, but it's not also

being a room public that democratic, very democratist. But But, we're not 10 years in this

decade this, that's not as well as we're not as far as our public digital our, we're, it's notarcked by Bazaar.

Bessarred even more moderate, that KOM, KOP opinion leader. They're who that's not just to be able to people or people, like that's got to, the group of business,

a group of politics, to gopok, even gering opinion, even though, even to becky, he didn't even to beazzar, but he's going to ging opinion on something

he's acinning as a good of the community. So, then, the conversation is not natural, like,

beharata. Now, I'm for me, because, uh, you know, we're not we're trying

media social, but, right, right, right. Yeah. There, there,

the, the phenomena buzzer, phenomenon bullying. Yep. Then, one of the,

one of the, that's been, we've got to and that's and it's just a lot of the because of the power of the because of the power ever

a real. A-ohyat is not perccia because media social and the sonatim matian made made byadern that he had been

hoax but he's but he still and the he didn't believe to the vaccine So. So, so that's

he's not he's not about theobot because of the COVID-190, and, and the other, because of the cause about COVID-190. Hoax, that's also.

He who made then the publicarant in media social that's very not and toxic in

where, where. And then, we're now, we're going to be the other question or not if there's been a lot of

not. If not, there are many there are going to if we're how much pola-bara Now,

for me, this is the we're in the generation of the era that the way that's the world,

that's very rapid, revolution industry is going to be around abat abat, but from ceta to digital, this can be that so quickly, in ceta,

Gutenberg, revolution of ceta, it's just, but it's just like but to digital, it's so much this. Now, this is

our to then Titit, guidance book about how how digitalization in a socialization, sehat, as far as democratic,

so much, and things like that. Now, democracy is, now, debaqed and tarancam, did burno.

One of the abutum utamination is the parangas digital. How, can't behabis by a person netizens. And the poweringing the kippecarant

book it. There's about one about AIDS that's that's been given to be and then, not percray. And,

umongan, not percray, even though, it's not true, the fact that's actually by a person African-Slaughta

in 2009-a. And, he didn't believe that there kithan between H.I.V. and AIDS. And,

the end uproar with sense with Ketka, nothersts, that's not true, with the same thing. And, after that's all right.

Meshaw. And malhered can 3,000 with the problem HIV and AIDS in Africa Southam. That's,

And that's that we're in the other than we're in the world. And it's not in other than the world, can't be made uprored, not resettia to democracy. If the calangangalangamalant not resetia to this. So, it's even making amplification. So much of the other than the other. So, so much.

So, like that. So then, pangue be issued by people who are not competent, but he competitive in a digital. Competency is gone.

Dibunuch by competition, competition, and where we have we need to be a person a doctor which is viral,

which is clarification by the United States. That's the desidiae our own. I don't know is, is because this because it's been

there's a lot of because there's a lot of, when we're going to be able to be a mass of alia. That's, as if it's, as a peralihan from one-bash from one regime to regime other, it's probably there,

there's there's there. Either the bit, either either, things, things like the other, like, maybe, like,

but it's about, but it's not, this is about but this is about character digital that not be built by a bit of

people, that's even that's. So, then, justro, people who are people who are

that, that, that, that, this, this is I want I, I'm going,

I'm going, that I'm not only important, I think they not only make up against competency, but there's kind of context, so, because they're able to be able to buy context.

If they're not able to then make sense, then be collaborativeilasilat with people who amput to make sense it. For example, like that we're on the endgame of Pat Gita Wilyawak.

In-baly camera, there team creative competitive, which is a part of our people, that's a great. That's important. There's a lot of course. And this, actually,

consens I've got to be able. How much Sarjana, it's only men who's notarata journal Indonesia, that's been back up to 27 people. That research, the worded, journal in Indonesia, it's been by 40% or 100%

people. But rather, with the research, not just a research, not just a pastack, but it's not by a lot of people. Now, where, to,

there's a way to upgrade literacy our, so, but in the side of sarjana, has then

to be being with the with the with them, and resets, with the more popular.

I think, 90s, there's a class menhah musi. People, people, Islam, who,

them, them, kariah kariah's karykhani, Jaluddin Rahma, Kariakarai, karek, then, M.H. Inanajib,

and, and that's and it's the bestseller book of their now, the class menhah Muslim there. Yes, it's already

elite and awam and they're and they're and they're that amoeuvic and I'm making that, I'm back,

or class elite Muslim or class intellectual in a way, it's going to go un. In the I'm if I'm badot,

you know, I'm being badot. I'm not saying this, on the metro TV. I'm sure to be able to be able to do and then, and then, educations,

so, and, and then, so, and, justro, um, the,

um, the, um, the costume badud of my, is, is the end-gim. Everyone's

people get said, when in-game, this is the way of Abing, that's not ever to be seen. Yeah. Al-hmdulillah. For I'm-a-lis.

For me, for me, thank you, thank you, to get more, to be sure, which, you know, maybe substantive, then,

with the basis of which I don't not even resuscadhanaka. Because I'm percciaeeran intellectual that's good,

he can't just menederhanaka bahasha. Yeah. Yeah. The time al-Aklu, not asal, the person,

he can be a biterhani effective. Yeah. Al-hamdulililah that's not on the episode we've seen

not a little. Yeah, That's not with the result of the way of your to... ...andpikean, which, tithiness, it's just a little bit dis-sumpaik, to bea-bud-tisasi-diri, but it's not-pennata, not really.

Now, this, can, dialectica, that, if I think I, it's very important to be put-educan process intellectualization. In era, which many of the era, many, people have been there's been much de-intellectualization.

But I want to try to take like to talk democracy, topic of media social. I'm looking, if I've learned that has technology for the social digital, that philosophy of their is only to make sure

to gainer the unting. And justifications their, that, if, if, the, eco-chambers, the left, this is many disinformation,

mis-information, or, asymmetry-information, that, it, it, it's in naturalized by information positive.

But problem is, algorithmicum that is used by them is very much more than amplification that this. Sedangangar the same this, this is the same majority, which maybe not brainy gomong, or maybe not have algorithm to to amplification.

Now, if I'm not safe, for the importance of our own democracy. Because this, two-doannes, must be up to be able to be able to make. What'sat. And, like, and line,

line, it's not editorialization. Yeah, right? Right, it's in Wikipedia. Who can't can. And how can't

or that's a person someone who'serimmed information without verifications, it's forward to 100 people. Now, is, what is that we want to be in front? Of course,

I mean, yeah. Because I think, I've said, it's just-had algorithmatic. Or, or revolutionology algorithmatic. Yeah. because

we're too because of the other because of the algorithm even in the other. Back on the titoicum what then the time is critiqued

in philosophy technology that then usually make up to karma how modernism

in modernism in which one one one product the other product the other is

digitalization this alienation from I'maliening. I give you. Critic that is to TikTok,

because TikTok is because it's really because it's made the world so, but I also

also have TikTok, because it's it, it's it be given. If you go on. But I

We've got to TikTok, I've got to look at there, content content that's not support in fact that algorithmatic by them. But content content

that's not educative but want to include at their own support. So, that's I'm going toagalining it with content educative but tundook

to their algorithm them of them, they've got some certain certain, they're support, now, I'm going to be able to support, now, I'm going to videoing our own, in a new thing, in a new-a-uped-up,

then, they're put-a-cannibal, then, and then, and then, it's, and then, and then, again, it's, when we're using, the algorithm that, the, the possibility virulingingingue. I mean, I mean, I'm in

I said, if I'm like solat, if you're the minute, then, di-injerk, if you're like to meet a car, the way of your, manpowering. Now, I must make sure that. For me, by me, I mean, it's process with algorithm. Because

not even, we've got we've got to move back algorithm. Because algorithmic, the problemitism of the media social, and it's And that's, that's of their own of them of them think of people who want to make media social with algorithm

that's a good. Princip algorithm that's a good one that's a lot of Muslim, it's to make up to Hanesnabi, Khairunas, andfa uhum, lirnas. So, the big of the manusia that's other. Maka, then, the algorithm that is orientations to people who have

have been a great, not have been a sensation that's a lot. Now, to be a bit more than, it's not. And that's why, then,

umat Islam, it's also hijera, as a intellectual. So, and there's there's Muhammadia in Indonesia,

who has got Chorah Islam that's been commojuant. That's, which is, the part of, in the

in the technology. if we don't know, if we're not with algorithmicam that how much how much mishasati in the algorithm that

for value that we're doing we're doing. But that, that's a lehackan. It's a work that malolakkan.

And cosplay being But the people-a-wam, to come up until upon upon even not make us to make us people who are people

because they're not cause-pulli. That's, that's what I'm in fact I'm saying, jihad, that, work-carat as a way, so, and I'm notaric. I'm notaric, and I'm

am a spakat. But if I'm tariff, more down And then, I was about 10 years last, I'm education I'm going to

teach us to be an activity in context competition that's perfect. But if I see,

the pola pediccan this is that's what is that we can't justro, where we

can't because monopoly that's more than it's more than it's more than much. It's a lot of the same, but it's also men show that's how much more biggaxana for jank-pantang.

Now, if I look, people of technology, this is the sort of monopolistic, intermessinginginging social, which is digital. Now, this is if you're if it's as a new posture of the bigiaghan in the countries major-nege,

it's very make-li-can perilacu-the-monopolistic. The way, our life our, our day-a-hidupe that is, by monopoly by monopoly

But how, the regulations, maybe if I'm going to pass like, cranks of the regulation like that, to, it,

because it's made in the era, maybe, the era digital, and the people,

the people, the people, that's also, not muddung, on the people of the media social, or platform media social. It's divergeny, right?

Yeah. ...that has to sikapi. But I don't know how it's just asegras asegras because, if not, this will grogoti the process democratization our, to the direction that and I'm not propagand-can or

make-depanting ideology just in here, but if, if I'm not just any, it will be a discounted if they didn't build institutions, he can't democratization talent. Sorry, this is a bit of a long, but So, this is there is a clear thing that's about about we're just to bellingue, hanyut,

with sifat, sifat that's sifat monopolist, with pembriarant by the penalal of the public toadaprilogue monopistic to be. So, so far this,

that we're using from the media social is true of the materialistic. If we're not substantive. If we're able substance, this is actually, media social is kind of a careta-cepart to move democratization. Democracyization in all of all.

In the whole, in the whole policy, he can't be born from the behind, which is very genuine, that's by camera camera H-HP that's not H-D. Kegiattahs of their

Tibergapy and made inspiration. In fact, talenta, it should be democratization. Where, where can't malherit can't tarantah

from the bottom music with good with model recamman with sound happy. In all, all. In fact,

in the religion, democratization it's just a person like Gus Baha, a person dulunuch

who, who then now becomes very viral because the illumuance that, which even

still use language, Baja, Baja Jawa, and only with the power. What is

is to beauntary, substanti. But this is that's not only monopoly, monopoly tertentous. So, so then, it's made

not substantial, instrumental. Oh, yeah, it's like, soolol this, this is heard. Even,

even, it's more than team Metsos is more than team line for the topos. even, eveningle, that's the most important.

so that's just the media social the process demotitization itself with with malachirkan took talk of

instant that never teruji even put puttensy or even who even who even who don't have

even yeah, like baddut then there, because of the media because of the because that's the same.

That's that's, that's a problem and just true we, I mean,

not we're not we're in the people, but, but, in atas, be to doodoo

to look at a algorithm. It's up to look at alloticum. It's not to create a situation in media social, that's it's, yeah, it's

we're festivalization. Why? Oh, it's not critic, it's a kebensia. So, we're now rabid to look where critique,

where kebanjia, where hate speech, and, whatever, and whatever, but, and critique can't be head speech-can only because Bapak, that's not so.

Like, that's also, in all that, it, that, it, it, it's, it, it, is, it, this is something

that first, that's just a part of, think, if, if, can, it's just, can be able to

be a, in a small. But this is to be think about because of a serious, I feel like, if it's a lot of, where, where, then, we can't be able to peg again.

What's the, because it's, you know, it's really, then, the level of the level of, or even,

the people, to even, to, even, to, then, then the payung undang-undang-tertentu and the pejorice and effective

to make-urus-in. We can't move in civil society to educate, socialization, what what we're in front-weat. Now, go-l about what what's important.

I, too, I like to talk not going to be about what's important for the long long long that's the day that two things that important in the length long, is perubaniclimb. And the second, the resenjana.

We, if we're acdu to the Spakotan Paris, we have to beurangue emissions carbon in 2013, to, is more than 50%, 2045% 2050, 20%

the last. I'm looking in a different it's per-gherakance linear and in

other the other what the private enterprise is very exponential emissions carbon. But blessing-hickmah,

the people of private enterprise, that are some of the same can't evenpaconsing the technology, the quickness. Intuism I, may notakant, this

the end-uguinging can be able to beaulses not by policy or but more than technology for we can't get up to the impact on the economy. I'm concerned. Pandanation Abid, how about?

I'm going to be. I'm going to start from perspective of the other, that's the competency, I'm going to be. There's a person who's Lil White, in the 1960s, who

critic that the about about the abrahamic faith yahood christian and

Islam Islam is one of one of the topoculte global then

critiqued back by Seth Hussein Nasar one of a person philosopher that

the American Philosoph Islam not not we can we can

we can't we can't we can't menuduos, because because of course because because of the

doctrine doctrine of positive to mend the crisis global. Hany just again,

then, there's the power dogau agamani to look at issue the issue

important. Because in doctrine, Agamah, has ajaran, that's very positive to look ala. Very fair, to look at ala. In Islam,

in the Surat Arum, 1, that, Allah, God, the, the, you, Wahe Manusia.

So, Allah is Allahinging we need alam as a subject not object. Not to

exploitation in a cramonging but deexploitati as much to be able to

subatess to mungi the need to the soingga Ganda GANDD that is

not too to mendoooooo to to menhuture but just enough to bea menoosia if not time.

This hasana, hazana agam. Then, and look alam, as a subject in artian, to make-lacucing

alam as how you want to make doing perlaken yourself. That's what did be under God in

the way of the word. Then, because that relation human's human with the al-Qaeda. In the Quran,

it's not-exploit-suitative, not-exploit-o-o-sahed. Because that, in that's, the Prophet, the Prophet, the Prophet, the Prophet,

he was a little in the air-keal in the air that menan. Melarang a person people who nong-kron

in-a-an-a- nong-l-a-an-a-tas-un-o-n-n-n-n- . Then, Kata Napa, as far ashth, Mata this ishth. Even, even, in the casehaping, a person Muslim,

it's not in curateean and dumbuha. In the conduct of war, that's theirang in Islam. Then, fact, you know, it's one of one of the gas-emissi terendah, it's a button, with 2.2-tot-gast-carbon gas carbon

and that's minus. Because what is given on, only 25% the levitin-negative. Negative. Even, he, even, even,

even, miniat, and it's not carbon in the world the country. It's not only one-bending-1-0-0, but just to minus.

And researches that's because Buddhism there is there. Non-abrahamic. Non-abrahami Non-abrahami. But, in general,

the religion, it's been a part of important, it can be madeoom to, then, be a plan important

in, in the problem the accliming in. Now, the In other, it's not about the

of the abelahedity, but it's about facta. And there PR, even. There's ajarra-ant-a-a-jara-a-jara-a-a-jara-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-t. But in the other, modernism is a top ofenting for the crisis Iqling global. Imagine, the world that is in-pegang abat-pertenahed by the clasan-a-bathed. It's the cancurean-n-necurean-the-legged

modernism, from the abat the 18, since the decade from the 19th, modernism. And it's critiques postmodernism to modernism. How modernism to make crisis

global that's with the machine uat with canalport with, with all the of the technology now.

From there, I want to be said that this is this is our by the calangamawan, while calangans secular. Because that, we need to be able to be made

this as a issue first and utama and together. This planet we've been exists 4.6 million years. And the second of carbon that's emisiccould, this is termisicant only in 170-tawn

that last. Begutut. So, that's the same a million, which, that, that's been emissican, that's 1,400 gigaton, carbon. But, the,

that's the 2,000 gigaton. That's only in tempo or period of 177-town. This is a correlation with not only modernization, but with the gay of our people, the pola-pickrida, the knowledge of our lives, that's not in the same-a-gama, yeah, right, for we have to bemelihara.

And, if I'm seeing the people of the publicies in the world, in the other, apalady in the Dengarmajou, they're not muddeng, and for they can't make up the pemilicking to get up to issueing.

Jail more difficult. Yeah, right? Now, this, the kunciness is how we can be from the from the conductive to regenerative. Be anjack from the from consumptive, as a consumer,

and as a as a work who who are taken on job. Now, things like that mischay need to need a

political to resolve to solve-to-resolution problem and problematica not long-pang yeah yeah it's

it must be that the indivine yeah and and all about

aspects of agam and of the culture, and other than that. Agamah,

it's need to dorook the civil society for basis of the to make outwe fatwa and and toerong the dog of agamma that's not

lured with the health of example. I've been talked about how much Nabe Muhammad is,

and the day on the in the Hadis is the day of the Mawakahemah, if you're not even sometimes a joke, I'm saying like this,

Mabee-Adam, Mettick one-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-legged down from the surga. You know, illegal-loging, aga-gat-a-loging, not going to go-massuk, to go to-must-surg.

Nabi-A-Met-a-turt one of the sunahs, you know, you're not around, and I think of the sunkening. Now, that's, I think, issue of the lingquang. Because that, Hefdulbiah,

to be a, the people, the people who are Islam, and that's a lot of Sharia, the point of Sharia Islam.

So, Shariat Islam has to be not-lourous with the engagement. Now, in other,

I think, I think. because this is about the way of our people. You've been viral a book of Kuzmi Instan that he was in 40 years ago that's been puttanked at the end of the end of the end of the end. Plastic not been able to,

that's scary. And in everything, in all, in the sub-cubdoubt, Because this is about the way of the way of the way of the Gaihismagery, and things, termasue, I'm going to recation. If you can, don't say, ''Buangl'samphap on the place.'" But letakkan-laped to the place.

Because if it's allah-oh-law image of sampa is poor. But if let's make-laping, that's it's something that's but it's about it, but it's not to make something, whether it's regenerative. Regenerative, that's what I was

that. So, in all, it's it, it's also, it's then, if not want to get in revolutions so on the problem,

and it's about and there have been orchestrasy it. And we're can be a talko-politic. Maybe a person person

topoc politic who is in a person who melancho. And it's also a lot of different people. Because that, the issue of purportaniclim, can, be a issue global. And it's really

if, if, if, in the context Islam, we have a certain universal, that what you have you done in here, in one campung in Bondooso, it will be a lot of the that's happening in the American Latin,

that's right? That's the world of people that integral, that's universal. This is part of what I often I think that I'm going to be the way that's going to be able to be think in longitudinal,

as far as horizontal, not as a vertical, or latitudinal. Because, what that's actually at this, very correlates in, with what's going to

what's at the point on planet this. And I want to be it's to be it's not many of not evening that carbon that's been resuscant in planet that's been correct. That's only 2,000 to 3,000 gigaton.

And emissy our per-town, it's, is more than 60 gigaton. It's about 50-a-town in our lives. If we're even still to make carbonization, we're sure we can't

makegantical with a sumber that's more terbarucan, or sumberative. But if we're gawbrough with the kids'ad, generation Z, Maramudang. Yeah, right? And, and the

or the kind of the kind of the that's important, it's just to be able to take ownership, and if they're making issue this. And if they're making issue this, I'm just certain, they're more participative in process whatever,

in terms of process politic, to be able to make solosic the need of need to be the long-in-punuched. Yeah, right? Yeah. Now, one is that,

two, I think, I'm going to be harap and be thinking with the technology of this

alternative – or solar, or the solar, the solar, or the energy, even, the other, this is a solution alternative, so that we,

one, not per-emisicing carbon like what we've done in 17-year since the revolution of industry first. But, like you said,

Like that you said that's the world of the important. But the other than technology, garis-maring science, that's also important. This is in the form of how we make educations generation of the future spirituality and science.

That's what I think is important. Taday. If there's energy or energy altars nativ, but, kind of, the way of course,

we're going to run back. Because problem in our, we're, to look, the world, is the,

as a subject or as object. Modernism, it's can be a lot of object to be per-osan, to be exploited,

so, so demicions. And, then, education to young, because it's like this, because of the young muda if I brought sedutant

that's not plastic, it's like, ah, lebeye. Ah, if you're doing, it's not going to be effective. That's notarasi, narrations that's being built, or terbang on in the young,

so, so, so, so, so, so, the, so-asadering, this is not too. Because that, that's very much in the time, in the time of the first

kind of, like you know, it's been to be narration, not to campaign, but the caseadarant just,

it's still, but I'm two days last before video this, he was able, I'mgit, ...and...

...and... ...and... I'ma'asimak, which that'shapag, it's making I'maping because of plastic the endang

it's a psalmell's a psalmerecter with a plastic. Pergredal's the part of it. Then, total, there are two plastic that, that when it's got

more than before the book. Before it, it's a little. When it's just, It's just I think that, I mean I'm I'm going to say,

I'm going to make a new new to see this as issue that's important and melibatken the topmany is technology at the end

the, at least as media campaign for this for this, or even, or even backhapartean, not catapotan, that if not even

generation without legacy. Sucur-sucur, legisting is negative, not negative, supr, suor. This is because my father, before, gay life's toxic-bant, But it's the end up. This is like a lot of us can't we're

for the importance of the kind of convenience of this kind of. If I'm going to technology, if I see data, data the last, the penjoling mobile-li-li-strik, in 2009, 2.2-2-juta unit. Torn-lalu, 3.3-juta unit. But it's upot-pundit that's very optimistic,

they're to be predixie that in 2004-25, that's the penjoling mobilistic, can't make $40,000. If you're more conservative, maybe in 2030, the company of the street, 40-juta unit. This is, it's the gawinged in the context, that, in the world, now, even,

you've got to be able to nipers-indered, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was... Yeah. ...noter, right? ...notanotonomy, right? No, no.

...theaputuance, it's, actually, Every day only 10% from 24-cham. The other than the carousy is nong-tronged in garassie, or the supir our own-corong-de-garasi, or in lobby, or if I'm. So if I'm trying, how the the caroling electric that can increase and can nupir and the need of the car that will be a car because of autonomy?

the car is 100-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-tall-a-one. 100-gut-unit-stahstoean. Mashaw-ah! In Indonesia, yeah, it's 10-a-and, now, it's to-7-juta-an. If it's to 40-juta, from 100-gutta, al-hmdulil-ul-lil, for our importance,

can't, emissic carbon. It's just in muarraining just, in hulunuch, how we think about some of energy terbaruching, the sumpur, fabric giga, sumber

the sunber, not use, but it's more that, it will be able to so, so, if we're hopeless,

to make to make paradigm, prilaku, who's in the people who is in the world people, yeah, technology is that can be the endangeloquing. Now, that's how about that?

Or if we let's just like the time just to technology, or we're just to not just to be it, just to we have to educate. Yeah, I, I'm just to look at technology that's not as a lot. Because that, he has to be able to be it in the way of it and in the black of it. If we take back-in'-back-end,

he has to put it back-end as aotap of technology it's own, So that's like media social this is not there's already to be able to be able to bea. Now, there's now

there's value because technology this is only a lot so, that's value that technology that's not

not alienation we're in our itself. Value is, the people about philosophy, it,

is about religion, and other and other and other and, because Because of it,

the technology, he's about the needy-nilay-nilay that, carifan, carifan that. He's not bebeang that. Because that, I'm appreciatesi the

Twitter, who, at least, be work-cantor in Africa. And then, to make- make-pluart-plom-in- Yeah, I'm going to work platform.

I've been a lot of course. Well, amazing. It's a lot of course. He has to beacquot-in-lawful-exam. Yeah. So, he has been in the, in the kind of technology, this.

Agar, again, tumbled, and menaliena-lux, manusia. He's not visual, I'm not rationalism, and be aghackar. Because if he

came alianati manusia, one day, I'm backer what I've been I've been seen in the film what, I'm

remember, you know, about robot, who, who, who, who,

yeah, who, yeah, who, yeah, who, yeah, uh,

the, because robot because of the robot because of the same because of the things, not make sense. Can, the world is not just so on the think of the

kind of the picture that's not that technology Ansi. So, I was I think, I'm

kind of I got to people, Madura, I've ever I've been he's got to meet with the same I'm here. He's been tegothed. Then I'm notary, this is heitung, this is hecung me, and I'm going to, this is heweree. Wondon, this is wrong.

Just true, because this ising this, the work of manusia, I don't believe. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not even with manusia that's just, I don't believe, I'm not even, this is kind of, this is the alienation to humanity.

Because, not, the engannanant, toung to to come to to make, to make, and how much,

the, it, to know, to me, I'm going to digress a bit because, this,

this, it's, before we're going to get a consenjank, mongue about

of the health because it's kind of kind of nethered, if we're going to be like that, that we're getting about how people platform digital that can manipulate

psychology we're, how we can't be able to be the malady people from Madura who gitue from DETM. To how we

can't we can get to rewate the health Indonesia or people in the how many? Okay, I was two or three years ago,

I'm afraid of recid that one of 10 people of Indonesia or a young Indonesia, that has been having a problem mental. And what makes we

make we're even sad to fear is because this isn't been issue, I'm still in the public-tas the public-pressed

it's done in the field of the press that we've done it, it's not been a problem, it's not being a issue, apalagi, the issue that's sexy, and then, people, people,

and if you're if, if they're not in the people, they're not to be that, that's not the public,

the same thing, it's not. But yet isu that's important. In several countries, in Korea-Slatan, this is still a certain-gene or even the government. Massal of the health care. We even to have a room of sick mental

still. But this isu that's important. How many? And because of the because of the other because of the other than the same thing that's the problem matter. But this is the problem,

the principle, he's gnawur. How many perceraion there's been between the wife and hisstri? Because one of them has a problem mental and one of the one not memmahmy about this

problem mental. It's got toxic, the wife's my toxic, my wife's my toxic. Because Buth, paddhap, paddock, when I'm something that's the family you, maybe when you're become a person you, he has been a lot of

mental. The fact that's really, the problem mental that, he can be able to docile with back, back, such, in the time, rata, rata, three months. even. that's even even if you can't even even though, it's got to draw

with the abat ofabat terputalue, and then the pedicatrice. Now, this is not so. Padale, this is a problem in the front of the

back. Even, even, it's a matter, you. Ah, it's mental, but,

but, but, and, this, I mean, I, it's, I'm not, And this is

very long, the whole thing because now people still if they're still if they're in fact their own if they're

sometimes not to where soing to go to HAPI go to Dupun to do A

Dukyh and things That's the The third they're they're if they're even though, they're quite, because they're not. If they're not even though,

they're not having a biotre. Because it's not a percary for people who's making money $300,000 to jasasasas of psychology. Because they're gunger, ah, just a sick mental. As long as a lot, people's not sick, too much more than that.

Because that, I'm a lot of concern in here. Apalagi media social, it's a big run-besar in manchurking mental. With bullying and other and things.

I think, people, while while they're being bullied, and nebunuched that's bad that the bully, to be able to

and while while eveninginging it's even and make up to be able to be able. This is something that we need to look at also, the problem mental.

Because that, I'm relatively serious. I've already made this as content, to ask psychologu-sikoluk to be able to bechara about this in content my. I'm I'm

I'm going to you in the area in Jakarta the name of the community for online and offline gratis for people who have

people who have mental this is this is this is big for policy for policy

for people for the and Because if not, imagine can't there's a lot of the same thing that's the same because there's a problem mental.

This, yeah, again, maybe nambung with like, like, Habib said, howbib said, how manusia,

to, he'd do't, work at 8-jamb, look at 8-jamb, and, and, and, and,

and I'm, And I'm, I'm actually, I'm again, I'm going to have analogy that, or observation, if I'm going to ask, "'Mas, we have to look at H.P. "'Mas, we have to look at email, "'maling what's at, at, at, "'what, like, how many,

"'pera minute. "'I'm disciplined-diry to not "'not-lead of one-and-one-half-jamb-a-one "'Sit-a-half-day. "'Sisor-a-pac-pac-a-pac-pac----pach. or more than or interact with people, with people,

and I think I'm more than I'm more than more than I'm more than can't nothersting, rather than we virtualization because reality virtual that,

that, we always want more indah rather reality that real. Yeah, right? And gap gap between virtualization with reality, that's

that kind of end up to the titic-tick that's that we're going to be in-ingingingan. Now, this study in many of the countries, and be developed, that's used with the pain of the heart as the one's the most popular, now, it's not even, depression. Depression.

Yeah, right? Now, this fix-y-muching, how we can't we can't make it's consummysed digital. Yeah. Yeah, right? Tentunty, civil society, the people who have to beaubrican

to make up issue this as a issue that, if I'm not cyclous, but secular. Yeah, right? How that? Yeah. I'm I'm I'm really

media social that's important in the problem and because he being being being used to beang massala he also

can be being used being being being under care and

we're that we're that reality is that there is now not

that is that is Realitas our is, is that is offline or online? Online, more india.

Even, a person person rela, and, and, for just to put, not the photo, not the matter,

and it's just to be and it's, the thing, the point, the photoing. Because, because, they're, they're alienation.

Realitas their, because reality virtual. Not reality in the understanding. And it's funny, it's not perccia aherent. Perccia virtual, not perclaim aheran.

Or... So, so... So, so... carabunan, too. Yeah.

...that we're... ...that... ...that if, if, if, in BASa Quora, ...pastika... ...that... ...and, ...that you, and yourerergaum...

before you have a big of the before you. Your life is, how many people who are being with the family because gadget? How many of the husband and wife and hisri, that, when you're going to get it, it's not the hand of the wife or the hand hisriness for the moment.

Because this, it's, when it's a good one. A lot of the time, like to make of the other, not looking at the other, not... Not to look at one, same, and that's, this is, it's right, in the era peralien,

we need to be able to etikas that we're spacety that we're spakered with that if not mind HP or if, if, like, I'm going to be together myahs when I'ma

not going to talk when I'm going. Now, that's not going to be able to come from having to be able to be able to be on the other than that. This is not ethic, but this is hygiene. Hygiene digital. It's, it's, it's, it's not, it's about retail or wholesale. Yeah, right?

Now, this, to the topic two that's sifatting, that's the shenjangu. I'm... I'm... ...that... polarisati percacapan, it's correlation, with the senjangangang. We can look at ratio co-efficient, this.

This, can, not rendah. Not only in the... ...negara-negara bebeung like Indonesia. But in the countries, Europe, America, even in the Uprok, if that's been classifications in the country maju, it's high. Co-efficient genie-Coephion ratio is 48.

It's very. Now, this, how this fix-the-obat-ne? So, it's to be it can turn and, so we can be democratization. to make democratization in bigxatine. Kersenjana in health...

Sechateran economy and as well. ...andidiccans. ...machempsychs. ...someal kesan... Yeah. If I'm, I'm going to be about

how we don't focus to guru just. How we don't focus to school just to school just. Not to curriculum and but we have focused to guru. Because study, it is notakant

if the guru that's lulled from the purgurant that's top 20% he, in a year to be able to be able to get but if

he's at 20% the at the bottom he in one can just can maybe

a half a time stuck with the with the bottom of 20% yeah, it's allselled. And it will beaughan penitiguan, and it will make sure can bring uphacketkaan

and it will gregotty capacity and also to beininan to be in any other Indonesia. Yeah, because this curriculum is one thing spakafi.

But, but who will beacung curriculum, it's a guru. Yeah. Now, because it, the pointing that,

we're injubljubljubljubljubljubljubljana. Before I'm going to say, I'm going to say, this way, don't want to be guru. Because the money not there. I'm going to be able to.

I'm going. I'm going. I'm going. In Korea, it's people are lomba lomba and who's the top 5%.

Because two things. One, gajie's great. Two, status social is great. That's what I want to say, I'm not sure with the words of guru is that is a paleraman

than jihadists. that's notarasi that's notaranguon for then, you've got you, you know, and parangas, you know,

that's for you. To, to then, meninabuukk, you. The paraguer. Even, the,

in the whole guru agamah, that's the phenomenon, I, I like, I like, about this. Sometimes,

when, when they're notheryra-a-a-gamer, or guru-a-cama, or guru-gachy-dru-gach-during, or guru-gajed, then, and, I'mpurtainting to the guru, if you're going toerima doit, that, how much the heilasance in

I'm like that's the person to ask you the good person to be able to because you get something that's so you know if you're not you're even if you're ever

anything you don't ever make money or even believe the berkhanes you, you know, you're making money you know

so don't ask you to beckxalance that to the guru's but to the people who's who's about thembery. Because that's

in Islam the world but transfer knowledge but transfer to makehance. Mackan position guru has been very

important in there if you know if you can't be ganticle Wikipedia calculator and soaguen.

That So the concern we have to beaure it's very important. The second is the bigiaghan to docent. Tridharma that's three-tugas it, it's not be done

by it in back. Finally, it's making instrumentalistic to niasati to get resetset to be able to bea

and the assisua surro nulis, they needit, that's the forbishop in a lot of opinion. So, the biggarten

to beaugh, it's suresting them as a pioneer in reset. Agar, when they're making-a-jured, it's what's re-reset, and then, the cred-sand-exuality

is, there doesn't stuck in there. I remember, some people someone who's been He's using PowerPointing that's for the time for

to know that's just and he's like like, like, gawatt it's like autopilot just,

he can't be ghajare while they're, because she only just, he only just

they're just because not there resett, but one one of Tridarmite came,

reset. Yeah. a person's a person. But, not the same of the docen, because the dolebaning SKS that's that big. Before,

even, he bebaning, wugy, scrypsi, thesis, disserpacies, and, I should. It's just

secian, but because, yeah, because, the, but not, want, they,

man, because, he's not, the way, because, because, I'm, I'm,

I'm, I'm more , that's because of the work-unisartive. Because I'm more than people than people who are people than by the teachers and guru-gru who are in terms of administrative. And I'm not in rankerangue mayelagh-can the guru or docene,

but because system of the system of thebriacan-dozen-do-send to be a tenagicinistrative, not as a leader. Now, that's, that's about I'm about the problem that's just in there. So, then,

people who have been access to the education that will be able to. And this, I mean, I'm in my opinion, I'm not a lot of our time, when the education is soal access.

So, soingingingingingan is because access. So, Structural, I want to the Deshunginganan economy, to be a problem structural. The person who,

the person is a person, he will be able to be. Because of the humankind is about problem structural. As a very much because of the kind of the kind of the kind of the kind of the because he has a good. To. He's got to be a good quality.

Even he can't buy a penidicent that's realtor. I remember that's all the first. How many gurus who are good in my campum say? It's is to buy people who are people to lesi anna.

So, so after he he's going to go to get to get one of a lot of and then, and then he had to he had been so, so that's the

then, the kind of of a problem structural. Structural, systemic. Systeming. Yeah.

And then be in again, again, all of all of different and systematic. Because that

I have have photo big of the room that. because he's not really he critic the dosa dosa social that is in the

of the time of the of the of the miskinan that's not that we've got to be making miskin because

because of the because exploitation because of allotation and And, likeia, it's the dosa social, it's also, there's many dosa, dosa digital.

Anonym, folks, echo chamber, and things like that. Howe we're trying to haus, to find likes, haus, and to find whatever,

yeah, right? And that's, illusion, if I'm the truth of it. And, and, back to or knowledge. Paradox is,

paradoxing is the more than a lot of, but the more deficit, is just true, the bigiaxanaan. Yeah. Now, divergency between the bigiaxanaan and

the penetawain, it's many things that are not positive for humanity. Yeah, right? Because of it's a barraqaerat. And it's about

how it's a barraining between spirituality. Right. Agamah and spirituality can be a kind of, not then meditifficed people to be spirituality.

People with spirituality that's right. Or people who are big. Because, because thegama is under, not thegamation, of tautom ofam abatabom abatamated, just to become

just to whom to beauchy not a topok who's bigot but tocow that's a bitabuag. Now, that's also, the people, now we're inflation information,

inflation, inflation, from different sudut, mucle to us. So, So. People who is people who is about people that.

That's right-rata-rata. There are a lot of applications in the world. It's that merankum book. Because, rat-rata, one book, it's actually only a little bit of the lembar just. Solemish-bash-bush-bush-out-age. Noise.

Noise. YouTube, too, that's about that. Because of that, because of the because of the end, we're in the era of disrupts of information. And the most pious

there is no there in the in the fact of it. Because that, Islam, menckon-kindness the importance of the

importance. Yeah. Ilmue that's not man-a-a-man-a- -lawed in the of the because of the value

that's what you're called as a good good because of the book. Because that we did did teach in support, the rephrmating to be a good. We're relo to give to a person guru because of a good.

Because if guru is not rela, then transfer knowledge not will be done with the samepurnan. Pentechalance can't we can't, but the berkahannes ishya, so that

can't even beaidic us even being used to be instrumental. What is the critiqued by Mathab Thangphot. People are more reputahua-tahuan, but more than making-kali people,

mubbukhunging people, menipu people. Now, that that, that's, because that, we're just being

taught in the panthered. If you're just like, if you're al-Ullumudin, Kareemu Zah, that's every before Bha, I'm Gaudelaide, to give you Duhu, Rupa,

Rupa, Rufi, the Rueh, to Rihu Kyi, the Rihal but transfer to bifiqsaanah. How much I'm gonna do you,

kittaker, when I'm backa the book of a lot of, a social, that has been toa and even beuasa,

because that's the permittance Suhrawardi al-Mak-D. And payahyah, Quran, it's been made for do with the people, but not be perlaken like that by the Muslim. Quran said,

La yamassou ilal muu Bahrao. It's not even to mediali he, exhaly, this only the aspect of the aspect of the human, to put on the

but the question ujaran huk but ujaraan but the juran spirituality. It's not even the Quran if you're not, if you're not clear,

not gyrny, heart and your mind. Makareshika'an your, then you'll be able to be able to be it's about al-Qua'an. Because if Quran only be able to belejury as a penitourism, he can be made up justru for tindererism.

But if with with a bigiakshanaan, he will give you to the chahua. Now, that, the that's just to behilden now now, back can,

back on, we've got to beca about, because of the book and beckhaping book, bajerkan, it's a lot, now,

now, it's trend, journal the, the journal, bachan bachan, PDF,

belin' one, but, did copy and disubarked and disoherkan so far can, So, so much there's there.

in the sameoomu, then there's been there's been guru, guru, that's not. Dossanity, out of givabah. So, so for me, I'm going to transfer knowledge just bentok that can't, but the beerkahannes not.

So, so there's many in here, but he can't be able to change it. Not can't turn to here. What is here is not being to turn to. So, so that we'llahirkin, which is corruptive,

that's exploitative, and things about it. Wow. We've, we've got over on about the publicl of the same, the xenangu-democratization, digitalization, and how

corruption to be mental, that's what we're doing by platform digital. Yes. And, after this, we can, we've seen the purgian Pasucan and the of the United States

from Afghanistan that's the abel-alibahed by Taliban. This, can, semestinia or episode that can to give inspiration for militantism. How we, in Indonesia, it's how we can mitigating risk of risk of the risk of like that.

I still believe that Taliban is not transnational. If ISIS is transnational, al-Qaeda is transnational. If Taliban, it's in a history. not transnational. Now, the kind of about it's about that if we're uphya,

we can mitigate risk, risk, that's not being in mind. I agree. I agree. I agree that Taliban is not transnational,

because he's very identical with a suco in Afghanistan, the abangitance, the abacquitance, with ideology but

but it's but it's not about it's about it's about it we're making up with every that we've got, like we've got to be said, what what's going to be aung on the same Amazon will be able to beckhueh

about being able to apalagery, this is about value now Afghanistan that not never come out from

conflict is that's because two the same sucu that's between between between

Indonesia, two is not a suco two is percara means Mertabak Manis. Inundasia

it's called Martapak Manis only, there two pergues. There's a Kwee-A-Pem. In-campong, it's about it,

the rung-bulan. Mata-Hari. the other than that's about so about if we can't what we can't what we can't even imagineation

by Ben Anderson a person American Sarjana who after in Indonesia because medit in Indonesia even to die

a person Indianianist the umatomian is the idea Afghanistan Gaga to build

imagination that they are they are they'rea. We've got to make uprogyna. Weakata,ungalika, La, Panhasila, and other than other than, subaghani. Begitu also in Islam,

there's terminology Uhuah Islamia. People usually can't understand personaharan in-a-islam. Padahal, bagi-said, if I'muptupehatiahs,

etymologous. Uhuah, Uhuah, it's a part of Islamia position it's a bit of subcifat, so far as a shuderaan,

not a sub-sabat people, the wordahs, and what Muslim and non-Muslim, want menacea, with binatang and tumbuhan,

with semest, asalkan persaudaa-and-n-sifed Islami, as sui-in-n-l-l-l-l-l-lur. and, and the other than the other than that'sabha'uha'uah Islam.

It's also with semestta, because Islam Islam is Rahmatan milanam because that's I've said not only uhuhuhuh uh-uhuh insaniya, but uh-huh mahalugiya

persauderaan, the same, that'semstah. Because I said, not only hablummin'u-N-Lah and Hablumin'an-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-A. But, human, but the human, but

the same of the human, but the same the human being, to build the good for the the world. The other than the other, the other than the other about the ecologous is that. There's beencane ecologic

in perspective theological. That's what is very bad. There's tsunami in Age is katekaidkaid by the paris in the world soly the solution that's not the end up the world and then it's not gung

it's just in the bally in that's also that's a lot of the now umbelled to Afghanistan imaginesi that imaginesi that we are the sodas with us

of the world of the Arabisement. Timor Tengah, with Arabisman, with Islamism, we're success with Panxian. But, the more sub, Arab,

a different country. We have a lot of one of the because that the one of Afghanistan. And that's what in Afghanistan

to the NU in Indonesia, and this and this era, era where Islam in Indonesia can be ablead for Islam and democracy in Indonesia

can be ablead for democracy in the world and the way. If we're then success to control imagination that we're setarer, that we're saddala, imagination we're from.

Because, we're not saleming to burn up Ben Anderson not because we're not because we're not at a crime or ta'at-hook. But because we have

imagination that same. I'm not going to looka because, I'm a part of my brother-sha. So, if you're not going to be able to be able to. That's what we're trying to be able to. So, I mean I, what I'm saying, what's important we take, is the thing is,

the important, I'm presisicalism about moderatism and radicalism. So. So.

So, you don't then, serampangan and, oh, they're radical and also,

don't serampangangang to say, oh, and radicalism, that's, I'm,

labelisation, that's, labelisation, Labelisat, and say, while, while, there's not a problem. Righticalism, it's also the way of the case.

Because that, the tip modulations have to change. Because, because definition is important if we're learning philosophy.

Because definition is that's that is the fact-in-upacan. Defendixie, the functioning memosite, memelah and memelch

in philosophy. Memblengu, Because that, we have to be heartyhatan. So, again, there's not there that's singue.

So, then, we can't be able to live with this in this. This is this, be imaginations, to nambonged

with what we talk about, with you, and with the people other, in context how we can

democratization that's not that's that's not yet not yet democratization idea yeah right idea is that

that has been democratization idea that's democratization that can't imagination and imagination and imagination so much,

more than more than we're prospect to for the world and besodara yeah, right? Right. And,

you're not to the first of our conversation we're maybe one of the pipa that's a bit mampett this digitalization Yeah, right?

To the important we're, the importance of the idea. That's the pipa utamination. Because we've got to-dispatismatismatisman participation that's important.

And participations is participation ID, not participation buzzer, not participation, the jurand-kebencions, participacy whatever, but participatory ID. So, so, for democracy our democracy our own,

substantive, not only legal formal just, all of them allotted tompathed togapes, digitalization, and the parangas digital and perangar digital to come to the

now. This isa the sadarant by the digital, perangat digital, it's beenerangue by the

Now, because of that, jihad digital is very important for me, by the way of all the people. It's really, you know, to be thinking serious as how,

so on mental that need, the level, or dirgen, or kementryan, and that's also, digital. Because,

and, and, don't even the, the, digital that will be able to beaas. He has to be able to behead to people. Yeah.

Wow. He's not being an app for anyone. This is a panang, right. Yeah. But I, I'm kind of think, Is that we need to do social re-engineering? Yeah.

Yeah. If we've got madele-can our own-conscious to be hack in a conscious or unconscious or evencious, or even-conscious, not there's a small thing, don't, for we as much, for us, to be hack-ulang, or re-engineer

social equation to be able to be right to be right. Yeah, right? Thank you, thank you, we've got. We've got to be. This is a long time.

This is the longuiting from before me. again. I'll say thank you guys. Thank you. You know. Tuman, that'sh, Havip Husin Jafar al-Hadar.

Thank you. This is an endgame.