Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Habib Husein Ja'far: Saleh Akal dan Sosial, Bukan Hanya Ritual

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

Ada suatu masa di mana sebuah peradaban Islam pernah menjadi kiblat dunia ilmiah (Baghdad abad ke-9). Di balik pendekatan humoris dan gaya baru berdakwahnya, Habib Ja'far seakan menyerukan misi ke generasi muda untuk membangun corak baru keislaman a la Indonesia yang inklusif dan punya kontribusi agung dan inovatif untuk masyarakat global. Husein Ja'far Al Hadar, yang dikenal sebagai Habib Ja'far atau "Habib Milenial," adalah seorang penulis muda Muslim, penceramah, dan pembuat konten berbasis dakwah. Sebagai penulis, ia telah menulis berbagai karya, termasuk buku terbarunya, "Tuhan Ada di Hatimu." Serial YouTube-nya yang viral berjudul "Pemuda Tersesat" menjawab pertanyaan-pertanyaan seputar kehidupan dari anak muda dari berbagai latar belakang agama, etnis, dan budaya dengan nada ringan dan sejuk.

...beer Islam, the most of the who's full-chinta, who are orientations, not to the other, so, to be able to be able to other, even, back for me even for us,

consequence just, after we're all of d'Iriness, then we'll be be a pungar for people Hussain Jafar al-Hadar, known as Habib Jafar,

or the Millennial Habib, is a young Muslim writer, preacher and content creator for Islamic Da'uha. As a writer, he has written various works. His latest book is, Tuhan Addi Hatimu. He shows his closeness to young people through social media, creating a viral series on YouTube called Pemuda Teresasat.

In the series, he answered questions from young people from various religious, ethnic, and cultural backgrounds in a much lighter tone than other da'wah videos. I can't wait to share this conversation with you. I wanted to understand his vision about interfaith, peace, and understanding. And the reason behind capitalizing on social media to reach out to young people and how Indonesia's diversity can be nurtured by its most populous religious community. Enjoy this episode.

Hello, time. Jafar al-Hadar, Pimpinan of GENDAQaeda, or Pimpinan Pimunuch of Pimunaset. Thank you, Loh. Abib, can't be it. Thank you, Pha-Kita, at the undanguangu. I'm going to how,

the small, come to come in, if you can, beckoned, where, and then, to learn what, what, and then, until now, then we'll go back to go back.

Yeah. I'm from Doroosa, Jawa Timur, the part of the Timur, Jawa Timur, then, relative, there's aspect heterogene-ne. Because I'm in Jawa, but in Baja and with buddaya Madura.

And, usually, people that say it's Mardura Suasta. If that's a country, Madura, that's in the world. Because of the mother from Madura? No. Bhasa and budayanian in Jawa Timur, Surabaya to Timur, is majority of Madura, and the

and the Ura. So, Arab, Jawa, and Madura, adobe, and there are there. So, if, racists, like, may nother in 3rd. Sorry, that's 8,8, 21 June. U.S. 23, 23.

Yes, yep. Then, then, he's from the family that's rational, beragama in a substancey,

but also also very rational. So, then, myahs from little, has been dedic, have two

times, which, which, and after Isha, to doodoo, and sit-and- to doodoo

with us all, then, and then discusses all, especially with the kind of the agamah, with the kind of not only basis to text text agama, but also rational. Even some of reprimackaned

things that maybe not be able to be able to be back to be it. Like, the example? Yeah, about ketuhannan. So, I guess I was about to not

to waris the agamahs, but every other child, and every other different with all the detail of the so,

we're in the climate that's like every day, we're with and I'm and I'm,

I'm, my, I'm just to learn philosophy. From, from the from

but still SMA, to read book of philosophy. Because I guess I like philosophy, bookes about, and we're just suggest to read book of books of philosophy. It's been with the talk of the other one of the ones, I remember,

the first of my media about Salman Alvarisi, Sahabat Nabi, that's very rational. So, that's my name I'm going to be made schooled in philosophy. Yeah, wholopon, not do not do yougesy to, yeah, be able to learn philosophy. Because minimal S-1 must philosophat,

so you're rapy in thinking, critical in ber-pick, jernish in in be thinking, because that's that will be all of your own your own life. Now, in S-1, philosophy, in class, maybe, a little, or even, one's one of the one who's

who's at school because of the first one, because usually in philosophy, that's the first one, or the two, not d'u-daping, yeah, well,

to be philosophic. So, the more, want it to be electrow, not get to and then, to philosophy, okay.

To psychology, political, the fact, to be the time, and then, but the lulus, only,

because semester two, under the other, just, to go to another. It's just a place. This is in Sharifida, that's. In U.S.S.Hiridah, that's,

Jakarta. I'm the first, JailrismB, not a jalur local. So, SPMB, Milly Philsafat, kind of a big of a big of people, but that's a pylia. And, well,

understand the filsafat, because of bach books of philosophical, know, people of course of and the book a month, Did you?

When you're in a little? When it's a month, two, yeah? Two books. Abysa. Yeah. Biasa, um, it's suggest to the books that used to come to where.

And, it's kind of unique. In ragbook, why I, I'm, I'm back on, I've already that's random, it's random, from different bidang, different, different,

There's a lot of gado-gaddo, bettool. So, we're challenged to then to then, with various references that because, because I'm coming from reference from references

that's impede. Curang-referencing makes people to be gaul, and to be inclusive, and other, so much. S-2,

then, them will be tafs of Quran and Hadis. Because, if in philosophy is, because we're going to be able to rebut on things that are very specific,

and more than be a manforat for many people. Because one of the fission that's one of my dad's is that's the kind of 25 years as a headayasan, peddickan, dach, and social in the kampong not work, but from the result of sarang wallet.

So, the house is it, it's all right, it's from there. So, because, not there's reference to work ever ever. So, even, not tertibe, that's not there,

because I'm not having referentsy that's not. Because I'm abdi to Yaiasan. Now, that's then that's then that's back

to the fashir Hadis, because the arus Islaman can can't put one era, where it's come back to Quran and Hadis. Where dalil in the Islam? Now, because that, we learn Quran and Hadis

to be able to give them bring up and them bring legacy that's more large-loas nantyna. That's also ter-inviracy from Aya. From there, then, then, belatial-actualization it. Three-one-year-old-old-old-to-media. In media, what do you know?

in compas, then the, the, the, the most of gansi, in the majalii, and in the majali, we're both, we're going to tempas,

that, mythos, the penulis, to, to be able to beer, d'arer, then, when, it's, so, 20, 21, that.

... ... ... ... ...the, ...the, ...in-the-class-a-t ...

When I was at the semester 3, is in Coran Tempo, in media Indonesia, and other, and other, semester 6, maybe, in Compas. Because, I also, also, has tradition to write-and-a-lawed. He gave a person

by al-marhum-cac-cac-a-lis-all if you want to look at a quality of the and dulaean, how much of the bookoes-gotes, that's era, where book still not be plastic in. If now, the number of book not not to puttick in a quality of a person.

Because, it's just to beplastic in, not be it's not to beacca with him. So, it's also. Look at the tullisans. Because, I'm saying I, that's from dialectica, process. He's not letupan. If you're on mongan,

maybe, there's emotions there bias, there bias, not to verifyification, and like, and look from the words. It's been 13-torn as a pen-lis. Manulis, maybe 1,000 more Isai. Wow.

All about the agamaheamah, some about the agamahe but the pithas of philosophy, because it's very much the power of philosophy. So, then, it's more to muck as a person that's inclusive, then tolerant, and rational in

religion, and substantive. So, it's end up to see aspects of the and to galee aspects of rational from the agamah. That's one that's what's what then is succoury. 13-tawn, so he's been a penurice. So he was 13-year-old, and it's really, to be aarhka by the parents. For example,

chemistry I'm good, mathematics I'm good in SMA, and the Kepalah Mintae Minta, but Aya, not want. Because from from the report SDs my, who's written cita-cita, that's Aya.

Cata, said Aya, became a ulama that rational, or ulama that intellectual, said Aya. So, it's... No, no. ...and...

No, no. Because... I'm not to make-mack-knot, but more to make-hark them. Because that, for that, my son-shaeatting my son-a-shaean-a-simpacted because I'm looking potensiness not in cognitive, but in music. Finally, he's a school-must-a-d-u-tah-timore. A lot of Maudora-Swasta in Poyhaw-Timur,

Kulia Bia-Bi-Li-Pano, and hebraning make-cputusan to not-S-MP. Not SMA. That's a decision that's a bit more than it's hard to be hard. The kids are still to understand, hisri-in-my, Ibu her, but it's, he's able, because he's not there.

And did support by the people. And he's doing, he said, "'Sanpeak-upon, if you can't even if you can't even, "'minting to be run, it's hard. "'That, because that, "'and, my, I think, as a music, but,

but, actually, yeah, and, and, and, being, um, who are concerned in the bidegamaan, too, because he's very, because he's very people, and, and then,

and did the other, the time, the time this is the , so, so, yeah, there's a little there, there,

a little, there, or too be based on moral, because of the moral, because of the people who's are very idealist, so, yeah, ah, the work is an issue of gampang,

and what's important, as far as, you're being, and other, and so much, because that, it's, even idealisman. 13-year, then,

um, until 5 years later, there was in era peralien. Era digital, digital age, then migration,

the text of the coran, not be read people, because it's not only actualization of the only, but for more than for other, just to use in some media online. Active, every week, minimal, one of the one of the media. At least, one of one media online.

Then, two-tahunuch, one year, around, era, era, and we're not even we're at our number two at the world, but I'm curious, like, minate to find the world

only be gayser just from buda to the buddhae audio-video. Now, actually, I'mutuskhan, how much, to keep this this man this,

be thinking to make YouTube. But because the background is the penulies, and penulies, it's, you know,

the back-layer, introvert, and a lot, sogain. I'm just like to look at YouTube, to beacques on the writing, because it's because it's important the appearance of visual. But, yeah, not-daped-dapest,

a year frustrations, just one-mallam, and then, to be able to upload. So, the name of YouTube, I judea-nullis. So, dula, jed-men-nullis, gomom. What's it's, he-tulis,

do-on-on-on-n-n-witch, and they're not and not to use, so, that's the time last, I'm going to YouTube.

And al-hmudel did take with good because it's based curriculum. So, what did talk about not gulur-n-d-d-

not-randem, but curriculum that's then I said as as Islam-Cinta. So, so, religion, ma'm amahami positioning

each other, and then, and then, and, and, Islam, utam, which is all of love-cinted, who are orientation, get to the other, not to be able. So, to beaic the other, even, even, even,

even, even, even, it's consequences just, after we're all of it, then we'll be a big up to other. Because the power of it, because the impact not for cognitive, but, but, the teladana.

When we're done with it or to make upheity, we're going to be inspired for many people. And inspiration that's very genuine, and very powerful, because it's based to the teladana. In the islam, yeah, ahlach, that.

So, that's kind of the ... Back, backtrack, a little. S-1 to S-1 to S-1. Is 2, is there is a jadeh? There's a jade. There's a... ...orang who's very rapy,

the class one, lullus in semester 11, from 2006 to 2011, then to 2016, 2016, so, is 2, so there's a 2nd, so there's a time,

to be a writer, then then um, then um, um, then

2016, then, 2016, then, lullus in the time, not the

the day uh, yeah, the day, day, time 12 night in system, D.U.

It's just, time, the time, But it's really, yeah, niann't you, know, and to find out, and then, but, but, the thesis is so much, and the scriptin' it's so long,

and then, it's still, 20, I'm also lus S2. The thesis about the ayat-ayat-ambella-agam. That's kerosahed to a person and people who are who

wadip to belac agamah with the other which then mediate nilay the so then I'm trying confirmation

the words of the Quran, there's a jublhan that about memelagam and the and the result that,

it's a matter of the Islam, but we have to we're When we're really, bethers, get a heart, not a gnafsu. Not with basis ego,

but it's of a good, but it's of a redoubts, and other, and other, I'm going to go about this, maybe a little bit. But, at the a few, I've heard you talk about Islam and science.

Yeah. Tell, de. On the other than you. Yeah. For me, Islam islam is a agamahman that rhammatan lilalamin, at least, give two khani. The first, rahmat,

for everyone, not only Lel muslimin, not only for the Islam, so I'm concerned to tolerancy beragamah. Then, the other, L'Alalamin, it's for the semestta alam. It means not only to human, but but binatang, tumbuha. So, then, not only

rahmatt for aspect of the same, but science, technology, economy, social, and, buddh, and, agamac, it's been a rhammed for all that. Because that, from Masi, S-1, in semester 4, 5, or 6, that's already

that's been bucho that's about Islamization science. From Ismail Raji Faruqi, Saitnagip Alatas, and other than other than also, also, with Proh Mulya di Cartanegara,

in research, research about Islamization Ilmo. So, it's really, So, it's a way that Islam has then, not only only

just be admi, but terintegration with science, even in their lives each other. Because the twoan this have been militology that's different.

Science is empiric, then, the agama is a biter intuitive, but have to but also to continue to continue

to make sure to build peradaband that's really biggah and betul bagh. So,

things that things that have been benture benture can science and agamah is something

that I clarify. Because if we make acu to the research IAN G.

Barbor, there, there, relation and science, there are four relations. There are relation conflict. There's relation, there relation independentsy.

Relation conflict, the most most of the galea and greeja. Relation independence. It was cut up at that. Yeah, it was just because, yeah, it's been allang. In Islam, the theory Bumidatar, Some of the people Islam or some of the umat-bracama

may believe in the Bumidat, that's a casehakaan that's wrongly for the peradaping if we think about seriously. What so, the world if it's been-coloured by people who are not-bidangue, decalola, in-srambangan. One of one of the chelaccagain is,

like, this. When it's beencana ecologous, people hang-ang-sulis is theological. There banjure in Jawa Barat, people say, yeah, because

there's too many people mabot in there. T'lough there. Tentu, I'm not legal-kinesh and mabot, but that's not

that's the problem. The problem is the samebaran, and the problem, the problem, mediticsi massala will make sure it's also

also, it's kind of rentetan the problem because that. Because, Because then, there's era of independentsy. Agamah and science is just be really, because there isisance,

in order, I think, one of the most of the most of the most the most of the most control science to always be moral. Gettemucal nuclear, agar not did not be givenasaking

people, then it's not a religion. Science, a godemate, to make sure to make a gama to be made from mythology mythology. If it's about

it's in the mythos, because in it's in it's in the it's in verifikation and it's in the sense, and sense in the

in the social, philosophat, and other, because it's independent, Then, integration, and un-satouan,

for me also, because the two-one have methodology that's the other one of the other is dialogue. The other-and-relop, both of being-inspirassirates, and being in in

different, and be working in the bidang in making-construxing to constructs the peradapan to be more much. That, that is one one of one that's one that's one that's one that's one that's

then, then, yeah, I think, he's rink, about science and agam, what other,

and then, uh, in some other episodes I did YouTube, because corona the morning. When Corona, can,

there's a clonqqa that, ah, corona, that's not there, not about Allah, don't talk to Kavana, but I'm not

Abah, Shah, and the other people who's the most and the very-imann, and at the timbrein'am, there's pandemic, he'll out, he'd out,

he'd from the pandemic. When I'd like, "'I'd from one taked. I'd lie from one takedir and the other one. "'Paling of the other, "'ourimann of the other. "'We've got to bea-uhnian's-soan

"'ke-catea-soan, "'Bicara'-cac-cured-cour-court-a-court-a-tack-tack-l-a-court. This is the pola-pickr which is wrong, from the problem of science and agamacan that's what we're going to bein'an. That's what we need benign. But although Al-Quran bicaragher there are 49-a-it

that men-tanked us to think. Afal-lata-fakarun, aphalatakilun. A-ha-ul-a-qqqqa-u. You, come you'll use a-lmoh. Then, Al-Quran also many of the words that about cosmology, about the world,

then the Quran and the when we, when we're making us to learn it, the Prophet, not specifically, said, the Islamu, but, but,

all of the world. And, we're often that what the Lord of the Bihiliahan. Jahiliah is jahil, which is

the wordy, people are saying that's haram, but bodho it's boll it, butah, Islam is very menentang to bodohan. So, so, it's a lot of the world-f,

it's a human-islam, then, the literacy our own, that's the object of Islam, and other, and other, and so-gain. Islam as a way of life, as worldview, that's that's that's now, reducts.

So I want, then, yeah, let's try, to make, to be it's just to becun to make up-sum-and-upon. Yeah, at the level of the level of the level of the level of the

and religion in our heads in our lives, and then, it's the world, that's the it's. It's not gampang to meducan

science and religion or or agamac. Even if we're going to Isaac Newton, a hei phle physica, who, first time, methammedtasie, it's been decedum abys.

Of course, some of the abat before Galileo, but it, it's, not-long-angulir superstition. He's menanulir sorcery,

or kudunan which is rampant in Europe. Now that, that's, I think, it's a complementarity between science and agamah. Now, I'm going to tariff to

the abate to the 8, even to the abate after the Prophet Muhammad Mningle, it's been there, there's a peradaban over 90-town, and then the abas-it

for 400 to 500, to 500 to 500,000 to time. We're tempted to really for romantic, with the joyan of the Abbasid, where the penedapenalam or science, that's a lot of the one of the other one of the same is al-Qarizmi who's in jabar, mathematics, and for astronomy and everything.

But, after that, 1858, since belagul that's iranagued back. Like, we're, we've got to be a lot of vacuum, or relative vacuum, with scientific discoveries in the Kalangan Muslim, yeah? Yeah. It's been a lotauman,

too, just-six-year, but they're not able to defendants like what we've seen for 400, 500,000, time in the time of Abbasid. Now, it's just a great, Indonesia, as a bigger Muslim in the world,

to start to talk about how, how we can't what we can't to come to the to be in the scientific discovery, and also, and also,

At the same time. I'm curious, what's the how about? Yeah. Islam terreducusi, so demicient now,

then, then, to be a -gama-hook as a matter or even for a big of people,

even for even if it's maybe, to politics. That's because pragmatism, not a penabdian. So then, reductions so that's reducts as a bigan-roupa

to be aegam just so, so then, not be coming things that's science, both science in in the

in the world and science in science in the social. For example, about anthropology, kajian about

nascah, philology. That's actually very important in Islam. But, yeah, not be bebeang in peser, in science and technology, that's Islam

only became consumer for penemone penemone penemone science and technology. So,

then, there some a kind of era, where then, yeah, the other is, and then, the other, yeah, the other, that's, yeah, the other.

Agamah, it's only in the Meshit, at it's just, and it's alexaliham, it's just as a ritual for a few people. But, and the other, the religion

with a vision social. Yes, that'salayan social, that all of the ritual, it's hillyhan ritual, it's hilirn't to the other than social, for ushallyh in a sallat, that'shātana,

in il fashah iwalmunker. Solat, it, said Allah, in Al-Quran, to mendidic you to be a private who not kegid and not munker to people.

The person who gives a man to give a man to the other, that's just still, our world, but then to science and technology and

and other, and other than, actually, the jizak jihs that, although not as a big a era Abbasia, jihad is still there, in the peradapan Islam. But, it's not mainstream.

We have a name, if we're going to We're in the Nobel, Nobel, Nobel Physica, there's a name Abdul Salam. A man, a Madia. Pakistan, the Kurdistan. Nobel, 1779, maybe,

that's about that, and with Stephen Wilbert, who's partner. Stephen Weinberg. Yeah, Stiefel Weinberg. And then, be with a work together, and

get a newfound. Menarish Abdu Salam that's men's found theoryn it's based Al-Kur-an and

Stephen Wenbeck better agama with him and he and he studied or methodologian illmiah. From there

then philosophic about actually that that science that's the

first of justification not the discovery not. So, not from where he got got this,

but it can be verifikation not, can justification not in, it's not in fact

in so far, then, then, then, And then, we'll the theory that. So, like, Einstein, when he's not making theory relativitiveness

umum and hussus, he said, there's a impact on the imagination. He's more than imaginative. He's more than to be imagines from, then. Faraday also

because because, what, imagination and about the Dewe, deva dewe. And the result, can be verifical in fact that there's actually,

there's a time that, where, where people then, can't, the Quran, from, from any but what's the important,

can be verifixation but then, again, again, come and then such-l-l-l-y- -coc-and-and-and-and-s-n-du-can sense

on the Kitap Suci, not then, then, then, then, that's then, that's then, that's then, then, then,

then, the time, in fact, it's, now, is, but I'm many,

I've got many-up- -a-pott- of six-and-a-naught- dollars in science, that 150 was,

by the of the in Israel, population is 7 to 8,000, and in the world Israel, the people of the Jews, to 7 to 8,000, un-grapal 1,000 in the world. But they can

to menacken 25% from total. And the population Islam is Muslim, this, can, the banding only 16, or 15, but,

the Nobel, in science, is the below 10. 10. Now, this, yeah, I'm not going to, this is not zero-sum game, but there's a lesson to we can't make a different two-two-ness. The reason is. Science.

Yeah, right, and this is not that not ever did not even by Muslim. It was done for 400, 500,000, from the abet to 7, or 8, to 13. Yeah, Even if, if we talk about, philosophy, that's,

it's to the West, just through Islam. From Yunani, it's termed to the Bajaerese, and then, then, then, then, we've got to be able to... ...wean, we have the permutarchan purustaka,

which then, then, it's a suburb of the Uyghur Abkhawrathar. Nur Holishmajid al-Marhum Cahnour said, Ham that, it's Barat Belar, Belajar from Islam.

People, Sarasan, people, who are Arab-Muslim, who then, embawed, Nile-N-A-M, which then

be-placary by Barat. Because, Ham, it, menur-le- that, it's been by Quran,

and did-kexed by Nabi in the quubba waddhaqa, the hubba the last the Bhappie, that the people that there's that there's

that there's that there's that's important, the property right, if we're talking in logic ham in the barat. It's,

it's, in Islam. This, actually, just the Bahrat who's learned in Islam, but,

now, the condition the other that's that's Columbus, McGillan, Vasko da Gama,

not can't be able to find benua, benewa without the basis of from the time of the Islam. And, I think,

because, because, because, we have, I'm going to this, there's a different

interpretations. This is not the position scientific I, or position philosophic my, but there. There are some interpretations which,

which is the philosophed the famous, Hamid al-Ghazali, that's he who is the un-gaphinged melemauged the importance to to make-depant science, where revelations is at as rational. I'm curious, I'm curious, is it a one of one

a titic inflexi, where we're not like the the penetan science. Some of the people say that, some research, but some of research that's the other,

embandahed it. What mbantahs, that's actually that what's the do the al-Gazali not anti-rationality, but anti-physafat, but anti-quered

to see to one of the philosophy, which is philipatetic, which is gawangy by Ibnusina, which is being against aqidah Islam by Al-Gazali. And Al-Gazali,

himself, because he can't critic philosophic without he ber-filsafar. He's then book, the hafutil falasiva, critiqued him

philosoph, not to philosophy. Because it, there's, there's reference of the penharam of philosophy like it's been ramai before many a few times. It's just to be it. There's not. Imam Ghazali is a person philosopher.

And it's a little bit moreh just, abhorus, ibnurus, melancho, melal thawut. Kesshatan of the people who meduduuk Even the size, even the

the best of Al-Ghzali is just on the other even more than more more than more than Al-Gazali also, that's what wadjit is the ill-a-gama, but if science,

it's far-dukifaya, some of the other people, and it's not deletimation rationality or ill-um-um-um actually al-Gazali only want to

say that, the idea is because the idea Misi Misi Hidu is that. Wahahalak Tuljinnah wail-inah buddun, to be bribadach, so not you don't even be able to al-almahagam. Because that's your vision for your life.

But, yeah, urusan of the world, the sciences, technology, social, and, and, and, that's also, because that, it's, yeah, actually, dialectica that's just. But, it's the effect of the other, If you know, if we talk about, effect the same people then

then, then, think the philosophy, Mundur. Because of the influence Al-Ghuzali, that's about. Yeah, I believe with a hypothesis that, I think, the titic inflexion that's more that's the same-who-lagucan to attack Baghdad

in the abat the 13. That's that's very to make themhack progress or progress or progressi scientific discovery of our Islam. So, so, yeah, there's a deseration of the advance from now. And I still, as a Muslim, I think to look at how Indonesia is more be able to be able to

to make upinked can renaissance or scientific renaissance. Yeah, right? In front, I agree. Yeah, first, I agree that too simplification if you're going to say

a one person because of one person, or several books that's written by them, too simplification. And, And, and, and, the world is there are

such as a different there are relation in it. It's a vision mission of the power that's not scientific. If it's scientific,

usually, for the need of military, for the need of unac-lucked. Now, from there, we can

geter that, so, Islam in Indonesia, it's to have a power to take the power that. Why? Because the movement, the movement, the Dāsa'a Islam,

it has to beed-andahslam. To-utara, it's based penaculac-lucan, until the punta at Andalusia, in Spaino. All of in inaclucked. Simplenialing, militaristic, the inter-is-in-Islam to the U-Tara, from Macca, Madina, to U-U-U-T.

But if the south, that not even melanchulcate, but acculturacy, buddha, melalue, the land penal, not like, the land padang,

and other than other, so then, so then, the Chorac of Islam, in Timur, Pena, and in Asia, in Nusantara, in Southpour,

including, that's much more co-coe and more scientific, actually, because, people, with a self with a certain and as a

a bigelian and Islam be perkenalked as one agamahed, as a lot of aghacahean, and other than other, so, so it's actually, Indonesia can be able to beblad two, or kibbad

new, to start the revolution, to, and torah Islam that in all of all of science and technology, Then, the second, in tolerance. Because the gergat tolerancy, we're more more than the origin, soft, masop Islam to here. Then, with the culturean, and with issue of the abasana.

If in Timur Tengh, from from now, not clare-kel, Pan-Islamism, Pan-Arabism, it's soolid. The Islam in Timur-Tangue, that's un-tuked, and Islamismism is hard. In this, can, not. It's very.

We, yeah, Panhasila, yeah, Islam, yeah. And that's a gagasan that genuine, that revolutionaire, which is the rest of course to be able to be able to be able. Apalagi, we're not only only in Islaman, in democracy, we also ungul. In fact, we're strategic, too.

But, yeah, it's, again, And again, again, yeah, soal, the Kusadur, is a very-bursed, he'd go to there, to maheri, to then, then, and then, to make the data-tawar Indonesia

in all in the pergaulal international. I want to take points that you've brought up, like, the chintana, tolerance, and geopolitic. But the question of the question of the science, garis-mering technology.

I've been asked to naras-sumber other information about how it's more the digitalization of the right, where we're doing consultations, much more than Google, than we're consultations with punditaph, or biku, yeah, right?

And the answer that I've heard is that it's, it's, it's just a lot. I'm curious, I'm curious, How do you? How can this will it still make spirituality? Because of the power of technology? Uh,

Pasty, technology in the dalam it, there's, there's, there, there's a bias, there, and there's effect sumphing, one of the one is, the reduction in there, because technology. Because technology, can talk now.

So, bodho, whatever, he can have media, that media social. Then, technology means, it's a little bit of a car. A person bakar about one can't be bant by someone who's not what what's what.

Then, he's about theory gawr, that. It's just, can, again, in era of technology. So, can't have an authority to bully, like. Yeah.

But, I still, I think, we're created by God as a person who's person who's who are the body who are

even more that's the other hadithes kulukumrain andra i'mrae you're a impimpin

utomn't the only the thing so that's the person especially muslim not there's alienation from

their own or by technology, or something that's something that's something that's made by their own. Because, actually, the challenge Muslim or manusia in the era digital, like this is alienation

from their own itself, and did gandigan by digital. That's the tantanation, that's actually. The kind of thing actually has had. That, how much technology did for our own to be given to our own. So, don't even,

and then technology that's that that's that's that can't that nafsu just that there's just as well as there's in our own to control our technology. Now, problem is, technology that's the way as well as control us.

I've been tegore. YouTube, it'shing a d'awah, but the clanness is it's purno, not all. But, although, algorithm you're being you're using puke-buk-pourno. Check just browser-stry.

Bruce of hisriness. I'm saying, I'm saying, now, I'man and takwa of people can check from FIEP TikTok. If it's in

things that are you're getting inpennepen pornography, it's a class that, so that's, so that, the algorithm that then not we're not we're making

the algorithm. Because that I'm doing, and engiring. Mugging. So, I'm not to not be gyring by algorithm.

In case in the era polarization, like now, don't want to do you know in the clompo-columpo like Heena, Echamber, that. When algorithm you're going to right, you know, you've got to be right and never to be cory,

so you're still to get a pemboderation, not the right. Now, this is interesting. Many of people that, say, that's the agamable, the sifat lunact that, is to be built.

By what we're doing that. Yeah, right? Ibarat-cata, if there are rampok and Ustad, two-dha-dha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-aid-a-a-aid to justification, perampokan,

to justifying a person Ustatt to justifications perilacu of their, to give him to give dacuah which isaqa. Now, it's kind to be the life of a person.

Uh, the end-u-uhnue of technology, the per diean apopon, and the peradion of what we've gota, interpretation, can, is, it's, It's not only the construction social

our. Yeah. Yeah, right? Now, how we can we can indahed-kindleck the constructs or re-construxing the constructs the first of which can't be run? Yeah. If in the history Islam,

it's often there's phenomena, phenomena like that. Same with the Islam, salimid, with the elitimation with the ayat that same. If, if in the history Islam, there's conflict between Sidna Ali, Binhabit Ali. This is not in Islam, in other,

in all? In all. All right. It's a lot of interpretation for the important. Yeah. We can be more about in aspect that secular. If you're in the aspect of the secular,

U.U.I.T.E. It's, it's taken as karek as a karek maybe. And, the ayat, ayat, suci, it can be more melar from UITI if it's been taken by nafsu our. There, in the history Islam, Siddhā'i and Muawiyah, then, yeah, the history is always there.

Yeah, now, what's other, polarization in internal umat Islam, or internal umat-bramma, so, and so-lid-lidimati with the ayat and hadis that same. If in Islam, construction that's is made up to,

there, miscellity to-ilmuan that's called with sanat. People, silhouer to technology. But, Ustatt that's being in technology, it has to have to be sanat that's not, so that has a competency. Or, hoax, in Islam, there is, in the al-Hadis,

don't gampang percaya. In fact, in the al-Hadis, If people, if ever seen, kenching, and even integrity has been reduced to rewetting hadith. To rewitka, now, in era hoax of,

now, it's verifkation, or tabayunit, in Islam, that's something that's important, and it's also has had hazanah. Now, that's also in that

that the interpretation it's very so much. The Quran is suci, but interpretation, the penafiratirat is not sui. So, he can be taken to where many, so the point is

penafir, penafir al-Quran, the pbacca and the interpretations of the ayat suci, both Islam or non-Muslim, it, that, also,

the other of the and other, and the undang-undang, that must make make sure that bea-of-fares from the parama-nafsu, and, the two, bea-bebas-l-l-mut-harned. Because that in Quran, la, ymashoi, l'al-Mutakhharun.

So, that's the man, the Quran, the Carta, is a person, such a-o-lach-and-l-l-cura-h, but, which, much more more than, in-and-l-cath-certain, should bea-muched, also, when he wants to make and menfshirkan Al-Qua.

Suci-hatine, jernish the thinkeran, not bias of the penitings, not bias ego. So, then, he who is the Tunduc to put to the CIPChi, not the CITAPSUC, not the CIPChi, he's trying to the CIPCII,

not he's a penerenture in the CIPC. That's moreny, so on, then, Then, authority, and then, and then, authority, in a cognitive, intellectual, and as a spiritual. He has had a lot of the alathe,

the Arabic, ilmo hadis, ilum of Quran, and ulumul Quran, and there, there, there, and it's, there, and it's in there.

With the kind of this, not be mungkiri, that's the only that's the whole, social re-engineering. Yeah. Yeah, right? So, we can't

give you knowang-nilay-nilay that more positive, so, from whatever that's buched, that, it's more be able to come to the now, that,

to do, to make an social re-engineering, or cultural re-engineering, or cultural re-engineering, engineering. Yeah. If what is the projected by I was in

the Pangearan or Dachawah Islam is to back in the aspect spirituality. If in the Islam is it is Tashawu. And then, if if it's about Tashawu,

maybe the generation millennial, what's what, what, it's a bit. So, I then, then, then, I'm called Islam Cinta. Islam that's called Islam Cinta. Islam that's orientation to

the spirituality, which, is the orientation to to go to critiques, before being critiquet. Because, the jrinihani is that is what's the and the

un-jernia-hurted without the non-the-annibalism not will be authorit-a-agam that competent, that can be a rujican, and,

And, without that, not that will not have generation Muslim that's Islamic. Yeah, the research from Marif Institute.

it's been able to be able to bewarexed. It's been called, the kota-palimi in Indonesia, it's in the pastar. If we don't believe to research Ma'arif Institute, research from the Kementriya'an Agama, about index kerukunan agama. That's the rukun just true Bali and Pasar. Because,

it's many people Muslim, but there's Islam in there. He didn't internalization and not meteladankan kind of the nilai Islam. Now, because that, da'u, I'ma, Islam, Kinta, da'uatāāsa'u,

a doahah to be in our, let's bein'i our own our own again, again of change, agent of change, agent Islam,

agent Quran, and other than that. Because, without it, we're hard, we're not, to be sure, if,

if we're in self-critic, how we can't make critiquing as far, to be clear to out. Because that,

I'm, I'm more, So then, then, then again, mena-inial, in a way, especially, as a human, genera of other

or even a non-beer-agam morality to-dalen that, that's been to be done or to be on on

on the foundation of the foundation, not fondation pragmatism, and other, and other, Mimupuk, merawat

things like that, is good, and I still I still believe it's there correlations with capacity to make upheq chastraan that inclusive. Yeah, right? It's also to we mupuk

the chintana and everything, but not there's a matter on the table. You're several times polarization, yeah, right? Polarization, this is very correlations with the senjagan. Yeah, can, and more to the right, and it's more to the right,

because of the insinjani. Ration co-efficient this, this, and it's getting up to 3,000-38 in the number of more than the number than than the other than that's not be obadi-sook it's more difficult to to make up-up-and-puk-or-meperbuy

to help things that need to be to be able to beaicay. Now, we can't take a example, now, a lot of multirass, multi-ethnist, multi-agam.

Indonesia is very multirass, multi-ethnism, multi-agamate, but there are other. The country, of Singapore, like, and Chinese.

But they're, too, consistent. can redistributions and that's beckle of their to beck-and-to-do-curek curunan, you know,

antar-multi-a-agama, multi-admist. So, it's, that's basic that we have to do for, to the front, this, this is cur-upunan, tolerances,

and, and, or other, it's more than other, it's more than to augmentation or to be or by-eague. How do you know, other? Some of the olama

say, don't talk about Tuchan and Guita to people who are that people because... Because... ...tra-

...that, he. ...that, ...bacan, ...that, ...that, when we're inhidankan. Solat in the different of the food, macro-hook.

Because that's what was by the Prophet Muhammad when heidra, to Madina, that's after the mosque is the building pasar. The two is the is built is a pasar. Because the fission

is very important in the peradapan, and because it's in the agamam One of the five of the un-gamous of Islam, which is called Makosidu Sharia, that is Hevdulmal,

to be in jadeh of the land. Because economy is one of one of the dasar, and the radicalism and terrorism, that, even though the acorn is ideology,

aspect secunders' is the endernering the otherans people are people and people are people, and they're because of the humuskinan. Then, it's provocation, or even more more, like, be provocation because

aspect of the economy. Wow, you've been in perlaken not bad. Let's we're doing reformation, revolutions, and then, and things because that I've got that, because I'm not, the physical economy, Muslim,

that has. Sure. Sure, the other than, that's happened when we have the President we have concerned in there. But, now,

now, still, still, more, more applicative, implementative aspect that. But,

the potency economy of the Islam in Indonesia, that's, it's very Potency jacquered, even if it's a thousand trillion, 80 or 800 trillion, potency jacquets. If it's economy, if it's been

economy, if economy, economy, and, the class menhungah Muslim, in era 90s, it's, it's been, it's been, even more, even more brand,

now, in terms of the termite, the people are people, to Islam-Islam-can to then move to segment Islam. Now, yeah,

actually, there's, there's, there's, and, and, and, action,

about this, because, if, bud, is, the, is, the,

part of, the, aspect of, if, not, we, would be bud, who,

who, who's what you can't really? If you want to understand. I'm going to be able to be it about what what's going to what's going to in Gaza.

Yeah, of the position is to put up what's that's not from

the of the humas and or not Israel. But if you want to get into the context that's that's actually in Gaza, yeah, it's,

they're very high, the access to air-bersy. And, many who not may not know that the thing of the people for the young people that is up 50%.

If that, not do not dojaiet. Yeah, it's a little, to be difficult to to down extremism. And that, if I mean I'm it's symbolic, for what's what

should do, in any one of all of to build, curugunan, and cintra-and, and, and, because the people

can't access access of the air, access, someber-dai, that's something that that's very much more than Islam.

Even, in, what's in the world, is that in the world, if in the logica Islam, has been by the country, so, then, redistribusy with good, for halayal amy.

Now, yeah, then, then, will be there'd be conflict class, of the of the insufferuneric, social, and things, and the other, and so on the way. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's not as well as it's an under the Ume-Slam, more much more

the more than aspect akat just, festival, festival, labeling, labeling, just, not make-acar

to the aspect paradigming. Because paradigm Islam, is the paradigm is the distribution property,

pendistribusian topemilikam. Don't even end up at one person or one person or one group.

That's, that actually did khandaki by the Prophet. Because, that, Nabi, is, that's, making the Khashu'u'uq. Ahlush Sufah,

is a person who, who's khanu'isma, not have been used to-shrimpsed to the Mastit of the Prophet. Then, from there, Nabi'amahsar. Munchulah, like,

Sahabat Nabi Abu-Hur-Raw-A-Wan. It's, yeah, it's, it was because, because, give a place to live, then then, then, then,

and then, make-embangan the knowledge of Islam. In this, hadith. Yeah, if we're going to be... ...that's what it's what it should be done. And how the Nabi also can be with people, yeah, in Medina? Yeah. One of the one of Abdullah bin Salman

who converted to Islam, too, actually. How did it... ...inhabing even after transactions to... ...mendayaeemed backerang to the people of the people of the people. Yeah.

Okay, I'm going to be okay, Indonesia is, can, the country Muslim the world, democracy the number three in the population the number four in the

world. It's been we can be better be to be able to be between A and B,

whatever that's what whatever, whatever that's what can be become runging between the Hongk and America. We have a position geopolitic, geostrategic, that can't be underestimated. I want to know,

the panang of Abbe, how? The de-deppan it, this is in the baguania, the future, right? Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah, so, In the United Indonesia has a model of social,

and model of the social, and model of the history that's. First, Indonesia has a model of non-block. We're from, our history is a anti-proxy. And one of one problem

the world, and we're about the problem of conflict Israel, Palestine, China, theongko, America, the war, we talk about Timur-Tenna.

It's pure so on proxie. There proxie Iran, China and kawan-kawan, there proxies, Saudi, America and kawang-kawak. We have beckal sejara, we non-block.

We have a becal of Islam that not terjebate on aspect politic. Islam, our own more orientations, not politic, better than Islam in the Middle-Semorten.

Then, we also don't have logic proxie. We're not to get in proxies proxies proxies that, or proxies Iran and kawans, proxies, and kawks, we're not terjibb. We're not with all the group,

and it's just from the other people when there's biae in two of the two of them. That's actually model that's important. And, the issue Palestine is it's

interesting for our politics of our country because we are a majority of Muslim, not proxied, and then, it's clear, beabas active, politics of the other-negoti-negrin. So, the issue Palestine,

should be being the panguosy political to be in a scale more than a scale more. That's actually, the way of lawyplomacy of the world of Indonesia.

Palestine is being Pangu, for we can't be able to be able to be able to. For we talk about Palestine and many things. Not as far as to look at pangoon, but because it's because relevancy, yeah, yeah, relevancy.

And not only Palestine and Israel, the world, because there's there, the center, the center, the core of the concept of the country, the country, and

then, For all, it's important. And, Timot-Tang can be the panguangue. Now, actually, Indonesia, Afghanistan, because we've already been be run, through Nhatal Ulama, to be undang, to be made to be a pemeran that.

And we're gulong success. Because Timur-Tenna, that's one-suku-banyar. We, ...banyahu, a lot of a country. And population Muslim is minority than in the lower Timur-Tang. Right.

And, um, Afghanistan problem has the two of the two different, so that's the country is unct. We, seven, it, isn't a suco. We're sucucucing, rata, or even a thousand, or even, we're two,

percara means about Mertabac Manis. That's the recipe to mention that's the recipe to mention, there's a time in the Kampong in my country, in the Kempulan. In Jakarta, it's been a Martabak Manis.

There who's the name There are two. There's one. There's one. This is a good. This is a good. We're who's the other we're going to be able to work

this, we can't work. Then, then, modul that, that's called Pancasilla, to the contestation that's more global.

But, yeah, we're, again, we still have been have to have a formulation, to be there, and be in the panguangu international.

And, it's, it's, the, it's, about the diplomacy, because, because, after the war in the two it's relative,

there's no there, or the war physical like, all of the war on suraf. Yeah, if there's invasies to Iraq,

to Afghanistan, Afghanistan, in a scale that's very small, in the other than the war one and two. It's actually, the power of diplomacy. And Indonesia has been a big amount of it, with reality of democracies, with reality muslim, with reality geographis.

What kind of the structural, that's to be sikapy, so we can be more be able to beer If I'm not really I've been thinking that we're not, narrator, yeah, right, storyteller's not. Yeah, right?

Yeah, right? I'm curious, the panang of how, or what? What, what can't do you can be able to be able to be like we're going to, like we want? The structural?

Yeah, Yeah, the sum of the human-sumner-being, who understand the paradigm of our bigneka-an our paradigma, our pancassila, to then, in a paradigmatic, to global,

and it narrasiced with good, that's, that was that was the back from Bungarno, how, how then be diplomat,

and be narration with very. That's what is that is that it was that islemy. And, maybe, also, so on mentality, yeah, if Agu's Salim, that, can, you can't, ah, oh, people,

Ah, Ech. Yeah, with diplomacy roboc. Dijaban. Yeah. Dijaban. Dijaban. Now, I...

I think, look, to look, to look, japanin'i japanin siapa Now, now, not even in the world. Now, now, not in the world. In Bali just, the cases Bulae not-pake-masker,

we can't be able to negor, that's been a lot of Vira. We're negor with people Indonesia, but Bule, it's just in our country in our own, in our country, in our whole. Then, many of some cases, can, you can't

that were over-luguing in Bali, but we can't. That problem is, problem mentality. And, and, you know, So, actually, this is, to be more santae, we're going to be able to learn to people. People's really. Okay.

The people have mentality that's in all of all things. Okay. Just the people madura who's who's going to buy benzene eccer at the door to out of SPBO. That's what kind of what? Nialin'n.

Yeah. Yeah. And when it's, why, yeah, Reziki's already has too, not-killed. I'm not cuthuker, if you're, you're the unctu, you have a SPBU, but the rejuickeen's SPBU. And, then, if, there's anecdot about

Mr. President, we're saying, when they can do you sell an ice to the Eskimo, not? No, because of Mandura. Jujan Es to a guy askemo. Or, or, uh, You know, the sale of Pulsar in the front ofontar. Oconan anecdote,

Pahhabi, when I came to Madura, and then the yank benderan, then, he said, Papa, this is the tian bender. How about, kind of, the rambodura, na-and, and then, it was, right,

you're what, what, you're what, you're, nah, can't be able, the bottom it, and, why, you're, not the lank,

not the lansang. If it's from the way to the up, to the other, to the right to the right, it's long. There's one Kiai Madura who's, uh,

talking, Talkin, May, that, if there's, then, then, he'll come, and then, two malacan,

that's, he'd be taken, and two malacan, If there are three Maelikad to you, like two, come out there. If you're coming three Malacart to you, pasty-can one that's false. Because the sure that's not going to live.

Yeah, it's a kind of self. Yeah, it's a great. So, people Madura are in where, even, even, even, no, not Nobel, not Nobel, Contest science, national, physical. That's,

that's a lot of people who are Madura, that's then filmed, yeah, or not due to. Yeah, that's because that. Because he has a good idea of that. Mentality that's like that, that's really that's what, even when police

bought to-co-kelontongan in the plabuan when there, when there's no jembatan, I want to, I'm not reserogam, I'm going to be able to be a job.

There, no, the other? Oh, there, there, said he, this. Obot-A-oh, yeah, oh, yeah, that's, he'll do. He'll bea-mine, yeah, not-mabu. Jamin, he came to break the meja. Shebred, he said he, he said he, he said, he not-mobok, I'm going to be able. I'm going to get aobot you, that's still madame,

"'Bapagnie, this, I'm, "'I'm, this,' said he, "'gain't reme'-law, "'you, don't mind with me. "'Bapah, this, just true, "'bap, because police, "'gat' not said that. "'This is a-upat,

"'Path, pa, "'and-udera, "'pah. "'Belmah, for police, "'is, um, man, "'samb, man, policy, this... "'If I said, from the first, "'as, I'm not, "'because, this, "'theirererat, We're not in the water and udara, the anti-mabobo.

So, we actually need to bea self-rechaeky-in-a-lawed-a-madua, where there, even, anecdot in Kutuptuutut, just in the Uttar-Utah and when, josephi, he's the most the number two

because the number one because the number one, not we can't we say no one, so, that's, there's, there, There's a little like like the people India.

Like like other than that. There's always there. There's just a job. There's just a job. This we can make an endhack humor, in context of the context of the when you're getting humor, it's lanket, it's, nempel.

And I, I, too, I'm having imaginations, you can, you can narrasic can many things with a way that's very I'm going to be able to this can be done in all the mosjit

that's in Indonesia and you, I know, make a decision to be conscious to make digitalization because, because,

the reach is a more more, more. Now, how, see, in you know, Indonesia to the

to the world in context Islam. Islam that's right for Indonesia is how? It's in context that's in a lot of to mupuk-k-cunan, interfaith with the kind of agaamahs or other. First, about humor, I was making huma-humor as a medium-dakwaha, make comica stand-up comedian

to mandming me, to dambing me in bedaubwa. Because, because humor is the most not, as what we said we have two key-unculean which is a great for da'wa, as a medium-dakwa. The first, humor is the language that's which is by people as awam of whatever.

The language economy, not the people area-awar. BASA Phyllisphor, what other? Baha'a-agam not everyone can't everyone can't be talk with humor. He's the most awaum. And because it, he's the way to be able to read. which is a large in the Dawa. Then the second, humor is

very effective as a medium-critic. There's a name Nasruddin Hoja, Bhaul, Abu Nawaz who critiquet regime of Islam with humor, without the wringung, the regime, this, the raja, the sultanin. That's also, to critic the religman our agamane

our agamana our people who can't be critiquet, that if, if we're going to cause we're making people, then humour would be effective for this, and to critique the bigiacan and other, so because it's important

to make humour as a medium. And, also, digital. Because in 2019, data that I have from VR Social, that's 58% of the people the people of Indonesia, is resambung with gadgets. And, rata-rata,

it's about 8.5-jamb with gadget the other people. So, I'm saying, I'm saying, 8-jamb-tiddle, 8-jamb-tiddle, 8-jamb-maint-gadet. Because there's not

not for the work for the Yeah. That, then, did digitalization. So, the most important is,

da'-gaw-it-it-and-pment that's not to come. Now, this is what's not did not do. People who are in mosulat, in majit, in majit, only to make people who are good. But rather reach in the way, just who is in the out of the street.

Santry is only the number of 8% in Indonesia. That's the out of it. Because that I, like, the people who are the same to answer to answer questions that's asheny-leneh, but maybe there in the

head of the people. But, it's not even he'd he'd tarnacle in the mosque. Because, hewaters, he'd curingy-a-pah-a-pahed, not he'd marra-marin, there's someone who mayankan if, if,

if we're dosa and pahala 50-50, then, in aherat, it's in the other, or in ahera, So it's a big imagination that maybe for people be a lot of people, in the Sunratul A'Raw, in the Al-Quran, did about in a whole,

which ishāraubal A-A-Rawarh, who are pahala and the dosan is 50-50, they're being in the surga, but at the end of the part-notes-and-y-alleled. So that's the question that isle-that-tooled so, so that's not that question But it's not even it's not even it's

on the forum forum that mainstream from the agamma, because they're they're being a chanda, like, there's more than there's a lot,

Habib Kiamat, that's on the day of the day, or it's not the day, so, so it's, it can be

so, it's not important, pertainanan, but it's people who want to ask that, I mean, it's already

started to take to the agamah. That's what I'm going to to bring them to agama. And, and a gama in the understanding that, inshawal-Ira-upeaked as genuine, it means.

It's ramah to science, ramah to technology, ramah to the pre-empoan, ramah to the lingquan, ramah to the assasi of manusia that sally not only only as a ritual, but salihed in social and spiritual.

Ramah to the nilay of thebankshawn and other, and other, sogain. So, plus, also, ramah, which also, important, to the other than perbeda. That's, because I'm trying to make references that luas to people about the other than the other one, because people will tend to even

to be unconflict with a clompo or or who not he can't. So, we'll perkenal just. Because that, I'm just to doodoo with a person of a toko-Buddha, to do with a Christian. That, for me, just one of course.

It's one of a few-a-standang that has been used to bea-gis-can. Because I'm, for media social, by using monuments, monument toleranty. That's each person can have experience, or, or have an entity, or monument

in the secitarnation. Maybe, there's a family who non-Muslim, there are khan koregerned with, and work with, photo, and then to media social. Agar, if there's a photo, a person Ustada with with biarrawati, not like viral,

not because it's not because it's not of the same tolerance in Indonesia. When it's still viral, it's still, we're still minus. Because that's just to make content content tolerance in the seciturgy.

There's a greege that with massit, with pura, yeah, to photo, share in media social, so, then it's become part of our

and then tolerances, that's really, to internalization on our own in our own private. Because if in the room, in the room media social, room, room seminar, we'll talk toleranty.

But, at a time in the room private, we don't do that. Intolerancey that's what's actually. The most of the group WhatsApp, that's why hoax and intolerance many in group WhatsApp, some research, maybe in group Facebook,

because ecocamber is, and with the Islam, and then, and then, and then, then, then, then,

because that's because it's need to and community and inclusive to then to make the kind of

the aspect that the aspect that the most I have I've been I'm saying that

several two thousand We've got to becunjung the Buddha 400-tawn, Hindu, 600 years, Islam, colonialism, and freedomization, for 600, 700,000, that's the corbarned is little, in what we've seen in Europe,

jadeh, 30, 40, 40, 20, 20, 20, and 2,000, to have eaten more than 100-juta of nighaw. Now, it's, many of the young in Indonesia, that, not, not-pahom, that's only,

that, we're so, kind of, with the kind of, that's, if, I'm going to beck, for 2,000 to the next to the time. And if we focus to the kind of our context

cur-wunan, interfaith, and, and, there's a lesson. We can't only only marwet, but even augmentations of the kind of like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're... Weakal our own, actually,

even, beckle that's not only for us, we can export to where, where we're going to the Middle, to Europe, to Africa, to America. Yeah. I want to ask about topic corruption in Indonesia, yeah. from the cacamata of your.

I've ever asked to Narasumber the other. The answer is, yeah, we're this is, we're not a buddhae, we're not buddhaqut. How, so, so Indonesia is to beersy from corruption perilaku, not corruption of money,

yeah. Yeah, actually, the begas the GAPI of Corruption and Arrosi Wal-Mortas, all the things corruptive, like that material or immaterial, that's the place in the naraqa.

And even, the Propheti, in the Hadis that other, corruption is, said, the Bhoping, you can't get you. He will make your own gregard you become so much, not can't come to where, because it's been

by practice of corruption, so, so that the room of our own our own way to critic, because there's a good cause of corruption. And, and, you know, and they're going to be in-saling, antar-lombagued, antar-person, and there's-go-alonging corruption.

Now, um, um, the most I, is, the matter, that's about where,

it's all, to import from where, to import from buddaya, or to import from the RASAMALU, because, Because the Rasa malo, in Islam, it's very important.

So, in one of one hadis, he's called, Allah malu, if there's hambana who mened aghaping, but Allah not mabulkan hajadne. Because malu is sifat Tuhan. And, the Prophet said in one

one of one hadism, someone who has been Islam, he has beeneliki rassamal. Al-hiyu min al-hiu-i-a-farkul-min-al-i-i-i-i-i-i-an. part of the immanent, said Nariwam. Now, malu is that actually

can control us. And the punca from the rasa malu is malu is malu to me and malu to God. Because, maybe,

the other can be atasy with the clasping, because corruption can, usually, if the material, or commasiatan,

usually, in the in the world that's in the Ghan, it's a maxiatan, sikhir, and things if anything, if in the other than in the in the Pankhawar al-Qaeda and anas, it's in the black. It's all right in it,

in the same. Now, malu, the punshawn is on to be it and to God. And the saddaren that, what the important is the, secular, that we're not secularistic, that we're not only

live in the world, that the penadilion that's not only in the world, and not the most of the human, but that we'll be in the life next to the life next. That's what then is the intisari from all

ajaran agama. If in Hindu, Huda, there karma, there dharma, and other, there reincarnation, there's life, and in Islam, also. In Islam, also, it's also that's also, the way of the world but also, also,

ahirate. So, then, we're more mowash in all of our things in our and the immanan also is a key that we always always make that, while there's boss, even there's not a person, even there, there's CCTV,

there's matta-tukhany, there's mata-tuhan, so we'll be in many-man. So, we'll be happy-hats-dir in in every step-langah. Interesting. Okay, this is the last, we're going to be in Indonesia in 2004-5. You've already in 57 years. How about it?

I'm going to see. There's a bonus demography that we'll we'll have to be in 2030. Some of the countries with a bonus demography, in Africa, South, for example. Some of the other countries have been with bonus demography,

Korea-Selaten, we're at the persimpangan that. And the pola-pillar of the piqueer, the dog, the people, people, the people,

people of the government, and the opinion orientation to the vision Indonesia 45, which focus is, the first of the generation of the younger, because of the bonus demography it. That, I think, that's still not even got a per-hation

to the generation of the under aspect, especially, peddickan, in the aspect, if we talk, a gawg, yeah, That's the world. That's the problem paradigmatic

to the generation of our young. And that's what still still still is still still in reformation, but, you know, but not give up to what in the long, in the end of end up and

perforation, but it's not long long. Then, the young young who've already in politics in the current time five years, it's also, it's even,

many people. Problems is, on the mentality and paradigm. There's not a perubah. Who's just the smangathing, or what's just the actor. We're going toot-maling with land-asan,

why, not we're not we who maling. So, the end of me, the key is, on the problem paradigm, the problem mentality, which that has been support by all the people,

and, the firstmation this, menvuella, thisadalatic, the stadareran mentalistic to then, then, and then just the body new, the person,

Pancasila, and other, and Indonesia, who, manusim, who are new, with, that's, back to the nilay-nilai

kharifan our, that's, already 2000-year-old, or if at least 1928, Sumpah Pomewada, or, more than 9.45, Panhasia, and the Undang-Dashirae, and the Undang Dasers, TNKRA, come back to nilay-niquan. If we look at glass-net-enough, not a-sett-cosong,

with assumption, all of such that, we can seepaping in a biggaxana and positive. Look-kisson on Indonesia in 2004-5, like, how much? from the Kacamata. Oh. Yeah, maybe in Kacamata I, can be more can be per-peran

for the Pernamaiian in Timur-Tenah? Or, very be very in in the unbatt and Islam, between Tionk and America,

and the on and the on-a-cannan and everything. And how much? How much? How much? Normative, we have to optimist, yeah? Yeah.

But, it's so little, because we don't see the jolid. We don't, we don't look at the tanda tanda per-a-pani. Tanda-purgat. The glass is a-tenth-cosome, not a half-thousel, not a-sett-as-i.

Because, the glass is it'd be minimed, because it's not be-and-it-it-it-minting. because it will be more than it will be because, the most it can, even, it can be partangue-javent,

from media social. From media social. I've been doing the pletion from a Twitter long, a few years later,

that he, they're, depending on the trending topic of the people, people, people,

The people of Indonesia that's that is about things that not clear. Even now, there's a concern in these these days, trending topic we're always pornography

on Twitter. Or, permasalahalhan that we're ribbed-com, Bumidat, Bummi-Bular. Hidgerah also, hijra, ritual, un-gamahehmah.

Paddha, however, America and Europe should be chihra to Mars. Media social we're also host in many-mana-man. data that I've ever I've seen 100,000 or 10,000 websites that's full with hoax that

mayelimut in media, media digital, netizens, we're still mental nettingen. So, yeah, it's still it to then optimist, but that's autocratic. We're not just being we're not being pessimism, but that's autocratic,

that, that we're not sure about. And constructive. And constructive. constructive, not destructive. Arting we need to prepare many things, especially, in,

in the world, in the digital and peddickan, other than other people about about about one of the issue that's structural that is a guru,

a less a guru that good quality. Yeah, right? And if I can if I've been than other that, It's very top,

lullusan from universities, from the purguranting, but if this is here, this is a lot and really need to be sikapy. If it's really be so can be correlations. So, I'm seeing the glass

it's a half-pennu. Because this is structural, but this is very in control of our to we, and if we can't We can we can't in 10, 24 years to the time that only

gurus who can't teach that is the law-sum-one top 5% from the purgurant-ty that's very can be correlated with buddhae that can beinac. And budaaa-puday-ap-upon, that's that's that can be tuang-can in interpretation of all-gama-pap-pap-paw.

And that we can be spirituality, we can be-economy, be-social, ber-bud-bud-a, with a culture of whatever, with a way, if I think, I think, I'm really, maybe two, three to time, a bit more difficult.

But if the trajectory this 24-torn to the time, I don't know, I'm a bit more, I'm a bit more optimistic. Yeah, actually, optimism can be from that...

If there's 100 people like Habib Javar. Oh, s. Yeah, can't. Can't be given. How can you can clon-kind.

Because, yeah, I'm better, I'm over with you, it's a suede. Yeah, right? Because you can, really, really, can narrasical with the way that

with zilennial. What other than millennial? Yeah, we can also to build optimism from the rujukan that Indonesia can be built from the house of Khoschokroh

Minoto, with three topos, which then, who then, who will beaulogy, Pungarno and Kauan Kau. So, I think I think, I think, we have to have a projection

chokro-amino-oism, that, to build a little as a little bit to bea-so-and, okay, we're not projection too big. Every person has a coshen like host-Cocro-amino-to. Tentotan't-nought-it-tentot

not in the in the It's really, it's symbolic. Pouin' having cosal in the meaning, has gothapant, little, to then make sure person per person as a little bit of upon that can't make.

So, he's going to work. I remember quote of Steve Job that when he wants to find the energy, the capital, then he'dudc in the fabric BFC. Then, when when the manager marketing you want to keep on air-gulah,

or to keep going to move to move to the world? There. There are thinking and think of things like that. For people, it, to do something that more has legacy. Not only 20-20-town, even not only the same-hast-hiddle-died-died-to-matt. But legacy, the legacy he,

but legacy he's after he's not. Even, Steve Jobs'n's been depak with C. Yeah. And that, so I always say that that, the person iser being idi. Yeah. Orang,

that's a half-besar, it's about a peristewa. Orang-keteer who's about. Oh, givah, yeah. Now, we're, this is, can, even, even, even, the past part of the pastime, we're not about idyll, and in media social.

We're at this, especially to just to be a bit of a bit of a idea. Yeah, right? Our mission here is education, educative. You know, you know, you know, and you have a mission, penhapdian. We also, we're just not just,

we're going to be, how, so content, educative, in Indonesia, can be able to make a scenario where the people inundia can be more visi to be visi to the people,

Yeah, right? Yeah, right. Want to talk about the spirituality, kay. Yeah. Gawrown about entrepreneurship, like, about anything.

Okay, we're jabanin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm not that I'm going to from here is

how we have to be jabanin. Yeah, right? What a-a-a-a-a-a-and, and if we're teakat that, I think that's, That's one. In 2004-5, it's great, in Indonesia.

Because it's, because it's content, content some of this people, people with two perspectives that are

different, two-umur- and about idea. And dialectica. That's important so. Yeah,

the smangatened dialectica, not dogma, not want to be here there, there's not to keep up, that's what, that's the one of the philosopher German Habermas,

it's, yeah, the room public. He's been, he's been in a room public that's healthy, not only, it's being a public, that's toxic, that's what is that's what we need to becipack. Because that, I, I have a bigangue, have a room public that's safe, in a, and in a cultured and to beauching,

and in a world. There are room, I was from from, I was from from from other people who have been people who have been to have been there's room public.

There's room public that's quite for people in there to work idea to actualization with the agasasasic can

or that it, or, it's, it's all over the lusiness, artificial intelligence, applications, uh, agamah, and other, and that's what

that's what that's that can can't, if the context music, like Juan Vals, Didi Kempot,

and, and the context of the context of like, securiaship, and like, I think,

to, the room public, that we design as a much for people, and when, when they've got to get not put in the thinking about sandang, and papa, we've got to be it's, we've got to beaure of that. Because that, I'm being

there's a real-pict, but it's a room public as a physical, that can be a room tithemone, from different agam, from other agamasasan, and other ideologies that's very, when I'm saying,

idea, the thinker-upac-hated and, yeah, be-bicare-tinted about 50-and-100-tallon to the future. And I'm and I'm here

space that, or the room public that, can, you can, yeah, yeah, which I've

some say with some of the number-sum-sum- we've got democratization pipa, but we're not to look democratization idyll. That's very paradoxical.

And that's paradox that, if I think, I'm not to be able to be facilitation, forum forum public like this, for how we can democratization the idea. And democratization, this is just being on the level electoral, not as a substantial. Yeah,

Yeah, it's, well, everyone can can't be chalonged on the other and other and sobegain. But, as faradigmatic, substance of democracy, not be great, majean. Yeah, the most, we can be able to be in the place, if not muntur. Wow. There are again,

Pesan-pahib? That's just, maybe, to not be the last. So, so. So, we can't, we can't give the last. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you.

That's Abit Jafar, Pendakwa, Millennial. Thank you. Endgame is a podcast by the School of Government and Public Policy Indonesia. The first Indonesian policy school to offer a full-time master's program in English and is a production of the cinema

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